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View Full Version : Well, can we consider Orton done?


Denver724
01-03-2010, 05:15 PM
About the only positive I can take from this game is that he won't be our QB next year.

snowspot66
01-03-2010, 05:17 PM
Sure he will. Who are we going to replace him with?

He's the best thing we've got going and not even close to our biggest problem.

Baba Booey
01-03-2010, 05:19 PM
Praying for Bradford or someone of equal caliber.

colonelbeef
01-03-2010, 05:20 PM
Sure he will. Who are we going to replace him with?

He's the best thing we've got going and not even close to our biggest problem.

what the ****? You're serious with this nonsense?

Bigdawg26
01-03-2010, 05:27 PM
Anybody!!!!

snowspot66
01-03-2010, 05:29 PM
what the ****? You're serious with this nonsense?

What? You want to start Simms again? He's the best thing we have at QB. Sure I'd love a new stud QB but I don't think there's one out there to get.

Maybe McDaniels will disagree but I doubt it.

Sorry. He'll be here next year.

Hopefully we'll fix the big problem along the lines instead of forcing a pick on a QB that will blow up in our faces.

Jerry Curl
01-03-2010, 05:30 PM
Jason Campbell?

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 05:31 PM
Did Orton give up 300 yards rushing to the Chefs?

Orton will most definitely be our starter next year.

kamakazi_kal
01-03-2010, 05:31 PM
agreed ...... he's not a bad QB but just an average QB. If were gonna go for the future then lets do it already. I saw the writing on the wall when the game was basicly gone with 6 min left and he was still throwing 3 yard in's.

go_broncos
01-03-2010, 05:33 PM
Only poops and Josh think higher about Orton.

KipCorrington25
01-03-2010, 05:34 PM
He's terrible so I fully expect him to be signed long term.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-03-2010, 05:45 PM
any QB we have will look terrible with the running game we have

Bigdawg26
01-03-2010, 05:58 PM
http://web.simmons.edu/~tis/cs327/fall03/Turkey.jpg

Mecklomaniac
01-03-2010, 06:04 PM
Did Orton give up 300 yards rushing to the Chefs?

Orton will most definitely be our starter next year.


105 yards on 2 pick 6's, but no, he didn't give up 300 yards... what a joke.

Was Orton the sole responsibility for this meltdown, no. Was he a major part of it, absolutely.


Unfortunately you a probably right though. Orton may be the QB next year because we have no other options.

fontaine
01-03-2010, 06:04 PM
Orton isn't going anywhere. We aren't going to start a rookie next year and there's no FA QB to go after.

Orton is a decent QB at best, but the two biggest problems in the team right now are the front 7 and running game. Until that's fixed it won't matter who the QB is, the team will be an epic fail.

MABroncoFan
01-03-2010, 06:11 PM
There aren't any replacements on the FA market. I can't think of anyone they could trade for either, so that leaves us with Orton or a rookie probably.

I don't know if they'd give him a long term deal, but I expect he'll be back for another year anyway ... even if they draft a QB high.

Broncoman13
01-03-2010, 06:22 PM
If McDaniels is smart he'll draft a QB high and hope that Bowlen lets him stick around a while to develop him. I promise you this much, Pat Bowlen is under the gun right now with pressure to fire McD. He won't fire him, but he has a ton of pressure right now. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see McD lose a bit of control over personnel at this point. I've still got a few connections to Dove Valley. This much is absolutely certain, Orton is not viewed as the "answer" by most inside of Broncos HQ. He has one strong ally at this point. It could very well come down to a power struggle, we'll know soon enough who has the clout in Dove Valley. If Orton is our QB next year it's b/c McD is calling ALL THE SHOTS. If he is not, there is hope that somebody has stepped in and forced a decision on McD. The funny thing is, it's the best bet for McD to stick in Denver for a while longer.

ayjackson
01-03-2010, 06:23 PM
Orton is a serviceable QB for a rebuilding team. There's no doubt that we will look for opportunities to upgrade, but in the draft, the lines will come first.

Most people had this team pegged for 3-5 wins. We got 8, it was a frustrating way to go about it. We were probably lucky to go 6-0 and we were probably unlucky to finish 2-8. But I didn't think 8-8 was possible going in to this season.

Home losses to Chiefs and Raiders is fcukin' humiliating though.

Hamrob
01-03-2010, 06:28 PM
I think you make some calls and see what you can come up with. If there's nothing you can do to upgrade, then:

You keep Orton
Draft a stud QB to develop
Replace Simms with somebody who can challenge Orton

We might even trade BM for a 1 and a 3, then use that 1 with our 1 to trade up for Clausen. I hope not...but McDaniels just might not have another choice.

Hamrob
01-03-2010, 06:30 PM
Look, anytime you throw 2 pick 6's in a game...alot of fault falls on your QB. That's like getting kicked in the nuts twice...you can struggle to recover from the first blow...but if they hit those nuggies again...lights out!

Hamrob
01-03-2010, 06:31 PM
When doesn Free Agency begin?

Florida_Bronco
01-03-2010, 06:31 PM
Orton will be back and starting for the foreseeable future.

epicSocialism4tw
01-03-2010, 06:32 PM
Praying for Bradford or someone of equal caliber.

Bradford should be an option in round one if he Redskins dont make a hard run at him.

The Broncos need a legit NFL starting QB. Orton aint it.

Orton is not a game changer.

TD30
01-03-2010, 06:32 PM
He's terrible so I fully expect him to be signed long term.

Exactly

snowspot66
01-03-2010, 06:33 PM
If McDaniels is smart he'll draft a QB high and hope that Bowlen lets him stick around a while to develop him. I promise you this much, Pat Bowlen is under the gun right now with pressure to fire McD. He won't fire him, but he has a ton of pressure right now. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see McD lose a bit of control over personnel at this point. I've still got a few connections to Dove Valley. This much is absolutely certain, Orton is not viewed as the "answer" by most inside of Broncos HQ. He has one strong ally at this point. It could very well come down to a power struggle, we'll know soon enough who has the clout in Dove Valley. If Orton is our QB next year it's b/c McD is calling ALL THE SHOTS. If he is not, there is hope that somebody has stepped in and forced a decision on McD. The funny thing is, it's the best bet for McD to stick in Denver for a while longer.

Yeah sure hoss. No owner in the league would be under any pressure whatsoever to fire a first year coach.

ColoradoBuff
01-03-2010, 06:34 PM
When doesn Free Agency begin?

Not soon enough!

mhgaffney
01-03-2010, 06:35 PM
Did Orton give up 300 yards rushing to the Chefs?

Orton will most definitely be our starter next year.

No, but he threw two picks -- BOTH run back for TDS -- which cost us the game.

Why? Because he UNDERTHROWS his passes.

And you still think Orton is the man?

gyldenlove
01-03-2010, 06:45 PM
I would accept Josh Mcdaniels and his twofaced talk about accountability and Daniel Grahams butter fingers for another year if we can get Sam Bradford.

broncolife
01-03-2010, 07:10 PM
I cant believe people are bashing Orton. He only threw for 536 yards and 3tds in this game :)

ColoradoBuff
01-03-2010, 07:34 PM
I cant believe people are bashing Orton. He only threw for 536 yards and 3tds in this game :)


lmao:spit:

Archer81
01-03-2010, 07:37 PM
When doesn Free Agency begin?


In a normal year? Usually the first business day in March.

:Broncos:

RhymesayersDU
01-03-2010, 07:38 PM
Did Orton give up 300 yards rushing to the Chefs?

Orton will most definitely be our starter next year.

You're totally right, because the defense giving up 300 rushing yards TOTALLY makes Orton's two INTs returned for TDs ok. Uh huh. Totally flawless logic.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 07:40 PM
No, but he threw two picks -- BOTH run back for TDS -- which cost us the game.

Why? Because he UNDERTHROWS his passes.

And you still think Orton is the man?

Yes.

Manning has had far worse games.
Brady has had far worse games.
Big Ben has had far worse games.

Should I go on?

According to everyone here, we have a crap OLine, crap running game, crap coach and crap play calling. Is that everything? Now go ahead and name ONE QB in this league that can win consistently with a crap OLine, crap running game, crap coach and crap play calling (not to mention his top two WRs and top receiving TE not playing, AND his defense giving up 30 pts and 200 yards to a part time RB).

C'mon. I'm waiting.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 07:42 PM
You're totally right, because the defense giving up 300 rushing yards TOTALLY makes Orton's two INTs returned for TDs ok. Uh huh. Totally flawless logic.

Where did I say it was ok? Pick 6's like today shouldn't happen either. No way should a LB avoid and break 10+ tackles like freaking Barry Sanders.

Archer81
01-03-2010, 07:43 PM
Cornbread. Aint nothin wrong with that...

http://tinyurl.com/yfubbg6

:Broncos:

RhymesayersDU
01-03-2010, 07:44 PM
Yes.

Manning has had far worse games.
Brady has had far worse games.
Big Ben has had far worse games.

Should I go on?

So Orton = Manning, Brady, Big Ben?

In the big games, those guys show up. That's why they have SuperBowl rings. In our big game, our guy threw 2 pick-6's. Just like Jake Plummer. When there's no pressure, it's all gravy. But an ounce of pressure = terrible game.

So yes, please go on.

snowspot66
01-03-2010, 07:59 PM
So Orton = Manning, Brady, Big Ben?

In the big games, those guys show up. That's why they have SuperBowl rings. In our big game, our guy threw 2 pick-6's. Just like Jake Plummer. When there's no pressure, it's all gravy. But an ounce of pressure = terrible game.

So yes, please go on.

Dude I'm not saying Orton is in their class but you need to rethink your argument. Do we really need to bring up their Super Bowl stat lines? Mannings playoff stats is a ****ing magic act. Week one through seventeen he's there. Playoffs he magically disappears.

TonyR
01-03-2010, 08:02 PM
I promise you this much, Pat Bowlen is under the gun right now with pressure to fire McD. He won't fire him, but he has a ton of pressure right now. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see McD lose a bit of control over personnel at this point. I've still got a few connections to Dove Valley. This much is absolutely certain, Orton is not viewed as the "answer" by most inside of Broncos HQ.

This is a joke, right? Who's applying the pressure? And connections at Dove Valley? Seriously? Who, a janitor?

ayjackson
01-03-2010, 08:03 PM
In a normal year? Usually the first business day in March.

:Broncos:

I think it's March 5 this year.

frerottenextelway
01-03-2010, 08:06 PM
Manning in the playoffs:

Cmp Att Yds TD Int Lng Y/A Cmp% Rate
15 games 348 564 4208 22 17 7.5 61.7 85.0

phillybroncosnut
01-03-2010, 08:06 PM
McNabb!! Draft Bradford too. Let Sam sit for a year or 2.... Although, stocking all that money on a QB looking for a new contract and 1st round pick QB could be suicide. If the Egirls get bounced early, McNabb might not get an extension. If he doesn't he will more then likely either get cut, or traded. BMarsh sign and trade with the Egirls?
Anyway, no McNabb? Draft Bradford, resign Orton for another year, and do some work improving the enterior O-Line

Broncos4tw
01-03-2010, 08:08 PM
We shouldn't replace him unless we have a solid enough replacement. That is... there is no sense bringing in a sidegrade to Orton. It should be a solid, perceptible upgrade.

That said, only the biggest koolaid drinking fools will still think Orton is the "answer" to our team. What a laugher. He can win games. So what? He can also collapse, and completely blow it in a big game. He'll never win us a SB.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:09 PM
So Orton = Manning, Brady, Big Ben?


Reading comp. It's not for everyone.

In the big games, those guys show up. That's why they have SuperBowl rings.

Please. Manning has a history of sucking in big games for years, with one exception, the SB year. Big Ben was HORRIBLE in their first SB. Horrible.

Brady had ONE good drive in the first SB. And he was hardly great in the Giants SB game.

In our big game, our guy threw 2 pick-6's. Just like Jake Plummer. When there's no pressure, it's all gravy. But an ounce of pressure = terrible game.

So yes, please go on.

Pressure? Orton has led come from behind victories numerous times this year with no help from the running game. How soon we forget.

RhymesayersDU
01-03-2010, 08:09 PM
Dude I'm not saying Orton is in their class but you need to rethink your argument. Do we really need to bring up their Super Bowl stat lines? Mannings playoff stats is a ****ing magic act. Week one through seventeen he's there. Playoffs he magically disappears.

So were Elway's if I remember correctly.

My point is just this: saying "Welp, Manning and Brady have bad games too" is not a valid defense for Orton's play today. Big players make big plays in big games. Bad players make bad plays in big games. Like I said, we saw this movie already: It was called the Jake Plummer AFC Championship Game. It wasn't pretty.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:10 PM
Manning in the playoffs:

Cmp Att Yds TD Int Lng Y/A Cmp% Rate
15 games 348 564 4208 22 17 7.5 61.7 85.0

Take out the 2 Broncos games and those numbers (except the INTs) get cut in half.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:11 PM
So were Elway's if I remember correctly.

My point is just this: saying "Welp, Manning and Brady have bad games too" is not a valid defense for Orton's play today. Big players make big plays in big games. Bad players make bad plays in big games. Like I said, we saw this movie already: It was called the Jake Plummer AFC Championship Game. It wasn't pretty.

Orton could've played perfectly today and we'd still lose. Guys were dropping too many balls, the defense wasn't stopping Charles, and the special teams weren't doing anything in the return game.

RhymesayersDU
01-03-2010, 08:11 PM
Reading comprehension? This is exactly word for word what you said.

Yes.

Manning has had far worse games.
Brady has had far worse games.
Big Ben has had far worse games.

Should I go on?

According to everyone here, we have a crap OLine, crap running game, crap coach and crap play calling. Is that everything? Now go ahead and name ONE QB in this league that can win consistently with a crap OLine, crap running game, crap coach and crap play calling (not to mention his top two WRs and top receiving TE not playing, AND his defense giving up 30 pts and 200 yards to a part time RB).

C'mon. I'm waiting.

If your defense of Orton is those guys playing poorly, then you must in turn think that Orton is in their class of QB. If you don't think Orton is in their class of QB, their poor games are an irrelevant argument.

But all you have in defending Orton is irrelevant arguments. Your first one was "Orton didn't let the KC Chiefs rush for 300 yards."

It's like they say in Invesco: DE-FLEC-TION!

Stop spinning and deflecting the criticism of Orton. He is not a big game QB and we will never get to the next level with him.

strafen
01-03-2010, 08:13 PM
No, but he threw two picks -- BOTH run back for TDS -- which cost us the game.

Why? Because he UNDERTHROWS his passes.

And you still think Orton is the man? Apparently he does. lol! Hilarious!

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:14 PM
Reading comprehension? This is exactly word for word what you said.

What are you talking about?!? Word for word?!?

I said that other "star QBs" have had worse games than Orton had today. Nowhere does that equate to "Orton = those guys". That's a horrible conclusion to make based off what I wrote. And it's not even close to word for word. That's just mystifying.

Rashomon
01-03-2010, 08:35 PM
What are you talking about?!? Word for word?!?

I said that other "star QBs" have had worse games than Orton had today. Nowhere does that equate to "Orton = those guys". That's a horrible conclusion to make based off what I wrote. And it's not even close to word for word. That's just mystifying.

So, what point were you trying to make with that comparison. It only makes sense to compare the bad games for players only if you think the good games could be equivalent, and at no point in his career has Orton shown he is close to being an elite QB. That is like saying, "Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smth had games as bad as Buckhalter's", it doesn't mean anything.

jhns
01-03-2010, 08:37 PM
This offense needs to replace 3 starters this offseason. C, LG, and QB. We could also use some depth in other areas

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:40 PM
So, what point were you trying to make with that comparison.

Here's my point. Prior to today, many were fine bringing him back for next year. Now, after one game, they're calling for him to be outright cut. THAT is a one game knee jerk reaction. They were fine with his body of work before today.

strafen
01-03-2010, 08:52 PM
Here's my point. Prior to today, many were fine bringing him back for next year. Now, after one game, they're calling for him to be outright cut. THAT is a one game knee jerk reaction. They were fine with his body of work before today.

I don't think you're talking on behalf of the majority here.
The homers wanted Orton back.
Some of us knew he wasn't the QB we needed here in Denver. Orton is flat out mediocre.
Game managers don't win games

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:53 PM
Game managers don't win games

All evidence to the contrary.

Hamrob
01-03-2010, 09:21 PM
All evidence to the contrary.You still need to be able to make plays when the game is on the line. You have to be able to convert 3rd downs and move the chains. Orton's body of work is not impressive in those areas.

I think we should bring him back. But, I don't think we should resign ourselves to him being our starter for the future. We need to make the phone calls, and do our homework to see if we can upgrade the most importmant position on the team...that being QB.

If we can, Orton would still make a good backup. If we can't, well, he's got a year under his belt now.

orangenblue
01-03-2010, 09:29 PM
With Marshall, Scheffler, and Royal out of the offense what can you expect? Orton didn't have his gamers running routes out there. I think the fact that Gaffney had a 200 yard game shows that he was the only target Orton had!

strafen
01-03-2010, 09:30 PM
All evidence to the contrary.They manage not to lose the game for you, at least in most cases, but they don't do anything to rally the team back from a deficit

Orton just doesn't have that fighting spirit to bring a team back.
You need somebody that can play with some kind of urgency that can rub on the players to believe that when they're down, that they still have a chance to win no matter what...

go_broncos
01-03-2010, 09:31 PM
Both Orton and Mcd sucks.

DBroncos4life
01-03-2010, 09:43 PM
Yeah sure hoss. No owner in the league would be under any pressure whatsoever to fire a first year coach.

http://www.frontofficefans.com/2009/11/5/1117653/browns-owner-meets-with-fans-to

I know right?

Lolad
01-03-2010, 09:49 PM
The only thing that will keep McDaniels here for 2 more years is if he gets a QB and has to groom him. I think if he blows next season with Orton @ QB he is gone for sure.

COACHES DECISION!

Baba Booey
01-03-2010, 10:01 PM
What does everyone think of Clausen if we go the first rounder route?

I, for one, think he'd have some success here after running Fat Charlie's system.

ZONA
01-03-2010, 10:03 PM
Orton is done. He's a FA and I doubt the Broncos will seek to give him a big payday. He's not a horrible QB but he didn't prove this year he's worth a big contract. If he's not the long term answer, I wouldn't waste another snap using him as the starter. I'd put Brandstater in there as your starter and if you want to draft another project QB mid rounds then fine. But my first several picks would be on the lines.

snowspot66
01-03-2010, 10:07 PM
http://www.frontofficefans.com/2009/11/5/1117653/browns-owner-meets-with-fans-to

I know right?

It's the Browns, they've sucked for ages, and despite that Mangini will still not be fired. The Browns owner is under no pressure to fire him. No meaningful pressure anyway. Unless we are counting disgruntled message board jockeys.

snowspot66
01-03-2010, 10:08 PM
Orton is done. He's a FA and I doubt the Broncos will seek to give him a big payday. He's not a horrible QB but he didn't prove this year he's worth a big contract. If he's not the long term answer, I wouldn't waste another snap using him as the starter. I'd put Brandstater in there as your starter and if you want to draft another project QB mid rounds then fine. But my first several picks would be on the lines.

He's a RFA. He'll be back next year. Sorry.

DBroncos4life
01-03-2010, 10:12 PM
It's the Browns, they've sucked for ages, and despite that Mangini will still not be fired. The Browns owner is under no pressure to fire him. No meaningful pressure anyway. Unless we are counting disgruntled message board jockeys.

Point is you said that NO owner would feel pressure to fire a first year HC and that is far from the case. Tampa Bay is going through the same thing with Morris. Things are so bad there that Barber flat out said he would retire if Morris was fired. Pro Bowl players don't make comments like that if the owner isn't feeling pressure to fire a coach period. I'm sure you will just say well they are the Bucs so it doesn't even matter if I point out facts to prove what you are trying to say wrong.

ZONA
01-03-2010, 10:26 PM
He's a RFA. He'll be back next year. Sorry.

Just because a player is an Unrestricted FA doesn't mean they automatically will be back with their original team. It just means that the Broncos have the right of first refusal if they choose to match any offer out there. If a team offers Orton a long term contract, even at a medium price range, I don't think they would match it. The Broncos also are not on the hook for paying him for another year. So there is NOTHING that suggests Orton will be back at all. He might, he might not, I believe it's really a 50/50 chance. If the Broncos end up giving him a contract, it's probably going to be at least 3 years at minimum and I'm not sure Josh wants to put his fate in Orton's hands, because essentially that's what he would be doing. Josh could very well say to Bowlen that he's done the best he can with what he had. He drafted a project QB in Brandstater and then had to find the best vets he could for year 1 in this transition. He was lucky enough to find a QB in Orton who only had 1 year left on his contract and was a throw in on the Cutler/Picks deal and cost the Broncos NOTHING. You might think Orton will be back and that's your opinion but don't go saying it's a lock he will be back. Hardly.

Taco John
01-03-2010, 10:33 PM
This is a joke, right? Who's applying the pressure? And connections at Dove Valley? Seriously? Who, a janitor?


This is funny to me because a few years ago, I got a tip from a reliable source who got a tip from a janitor who overheard Mike and Kubes in a furious argument over Plummer.

Don't knock the janitors. They know more than you might think.

Killericon
01-03-2010, 10:34 PM
http://www.frontofficefans.com/2009/11/5/1117653/browns-owner-meets-with-fans-to

I know right?

Mangini is in his first year with the Browns, but he's not a first year coach.

DBroncos4life
01-03-2010, 10:37 PM
Mangini is in his first year with the Browns, but he's not a first year coach.

Morris in Tampa Bay then.

GreatBronco16
01-03-2010, 10:38 PM
but they don't do anything to rally the team back from a deficit



I'll raise you the Dallas and NE game this year. Granted, I could also say the Cincy game, but I'll let you have that one as a fluke win. But I'm sure you can come up with excuses for the other two games where Denver fell behind early and Orton was a big reason for the comeback wins in both those games.