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View Full Version : Serious question - how long is the honeymoon?


DrFate
01-03-2010, 05:50 AM
The optimist says McDaniels finishes his first season at the helm at 9-7. Without some very strange happenings today/tonite, the offseason starts around midnight.

We start 2010 without Cutler and (most likely) Marshall - the best offensive players from the 2008 season.

So my serious question for the pro-McDaniels crowd - how long does he carry the genius brand?

That same crowd slammed anyone who would question McDaniels. "Give him a chance!" "Let him finish a season!" "Judge him on results!" (these are some of the nicer things that were said)

So my question is posed to those who have supported the coach from day 1 until today, regardless of good times or bad. If the Broncos are another .500 team in '10, miss the playoffs again, have a late season collapse; what then? How long should a first-time HC be given before more tangible results are expected?

I'm not looking for another thread on what a genius McDaniels is, what a dumbass Cutler is, or how bad some fans on this board are.

IN THE END - the results for McDaniels year 1 are the same as the final season for Shanny (.500, more or less, a late season collapse, and no playoffs) When will results be DEMANDED by those that have 'supported' the new regime?

_Oro_
01-03-2010, 06:06 AM
3 years, that's how long it takes to see if his first draft class pans out.

jhat01
01-03-2010, 07:48 AM
Who crowned him a genius anyway? I'm in his camp for sure for at least another full year..probably two. We'll know by then about this draft, and if he can get some more of "his kind" of players through FA. 500ish won't cut it for very long, and it shouldn't...We beat the Raiders and we wouldn't be having this conversation...what a horrible loss that was.

HAT
01-03-2010, 08:12 AM
IN THE END - the results for McDaniels year 1 are the same as the final season for Shanny (.500, more or less, a late season collapse, and no playoffs) When will results be DEMANDED by those that have 'supported' the new regime?


First of all.....assuming Denver wins today: 9-7 vs. the schedule they played and with new players galore is not "more or less" the same as last years Hochuli aided 8-8;

That being said, I'm exactly the type of McD supporter you described so allow me to answer....


3 years MINIMUM.

If they regress:
If there is a significant drop off in each following year. Say, a 6-10 2010 followed by an even worse 2011 then you (Bowlen) fire him without looking back.

If they stay about the same:
If they remain a 8-8 or 9-7 team in that same span, always on the cusp of making the playoffs but coming up just short...Then you take a hard look at how the '09 & '10 draft class is doing & how the FA moves have panned out. If the answer sucks than you take a look at who is available to coach/GM in 2012. If there is a dream scenario out there (Like a top flight GM & say, Kubiak), you make the move. If not, you pull McD aside and say "All things considered, decent job so far but it's time to ratchet it up. You need to win the AFC west and a playoff game or two in 2012 if you expect to be here next year"

Given that McD has never been a part of a losing season, I doubt either of those scenarios play out.

I expect the progression will be something like this:
2009: 9-7, playoffs with help
2010: 10-6, solid wild card
2011: 10-6 / 11-5 AFCW champs

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-03-2010, 08:22 AM
Who crowned him a genius anyway? I'm in his camp for sure for at least another full year..probably two. We'll know by then about this draft, and if he can get some more of "his kind" of players through FA. 500ish won't cut it for very long, and it shouldn't...We beat the Raiders and we wouldn't be having this conversation...what a horrible loss that was.

The only people calling him a genius are those doing it to mock his credentials. His supporters sure aren't. I think he's a good coach. That's it. Not a genius, but a very good football coach. Why he must be either an idiot or a genius to some people here is beyond me.

colonelbeef
01-03-2010, 08:34 AM
First of all.....assuming Denver wins today: 9-7 vs. the schedule they played and with new players galore is not "more or less" the same as last years Hochuli aided 8-8;

That being said, I'm exactly the type of McD supporter you described so allow me to answer....


3 years MINIMUM.

If they regress:
If there is a significant drop off in each following year. Say, a 6-10 2010 followed by an even worse 2011 then you (Bowlen) fire him without looking back.

If they stay about the same:
If they remain a 8-8 or 9-7 team in that same span, always on the cusp of making the playoffs but coming up just short...Then you take a hard look at how the '09 & '10 draft class is doing & how the FA moves have panned out. If the answer sucks than you take a look at who is available to coach/GM in 2012. If there is a dream scenario out there (Like a top flight GM & say, Kubiak), you make the move. If not, you pull McD aside and say "All things considered, decent job so far but it's time to ratchet it up. You need to win the AFC west and a playoff game or two in 2012 if you expect to be here next year"

Given that McD has never been a part of a losing season, I doubt either of those scenarios play out.

I expect the progression will be something like this:
2009: 9-7, playoffs with help
2010: 10-6, solid wild card
2011: 10-6 / 11-5 AFCW champs

Oh you mean the 2009 miracle Bengals tip aided team?

Don't parse out single plays to make a point about the entire season, the 2009 Broncos have had more than their share of fluke plays and bad calls going their way. This team is equal to last years team, the only difference is that the offense is as bad as last years' defense, and now we have no QB.

lostknight
01-03-2010, 08:42 AM
2 years. He misses play offs both years, and he is done.

HAT
01-03-2010, 08:45 AM
Oh you mean the 2009 miracle Bengals tip aided team?

Don't parse out single plays to make a point about the entire season, the 2009 Broncos have had more than their share of fluke plays and bad calls going their way. This team is equal to last years team, the only difference is that the offense is as bad as last years' defense, and now we have no QB.

Fluke plays are fluke plays and have a way of balancing themselves out. Blatant **** ups by a Ref to where the league itself has to apologize is another matter entirely.

Regardless...This team is measurably better than last years when you look at all 3 phases.

broncocalijohn
01-03-2010, 09:05 AM
2 years. He misses play offs both years, and he is done.

Seems you and a few others want the honeymoon to end after this season. Be honest with your opinion. I hope you really mean at least 2 years. Even Rastaretard has him coming back for at least one more year.

WolfpackGuy
01-03-2010, 09:08 AM
He will be back.

Whether or not he returns for a third season will depend on how many players mutiny on him next season.

Running players off in New England works because they have a stronger team.

The Broncos don't have that luxury.

Pony Boy
01-03-2010, 09:11 AM
Two years but the team must be competetive next year and this years draft is crucial. He needs to make another "Dawkins type" FA move on the D or O line.

nickademus
01-03-2010, 09:33 AM
I would say he will get 3 seasons IMHO his first draft will let him down

nickademus
01-03-2010, 09:47 AM
Fluke plays are fluke plays and have a way of balancing themselves out. Blatant **** ups by a Ref to where the league itself has to apologize is another matter entirely.

Regardless...This team is measurably better than last years when you look at all 3 phases.

I feel like we have made huge leaps on D. however there are still some holes that need to be filled but IMHO we should all be pretty happy with their preformance this year compaired to last year. Wether McD or Nolan will get the credit for this is the big question. We have taken a few steps back on Offence. McD runs a dink and dump O that only uses the long ball to keep you honest. Our Oline play could use a major upgrade in the middle and wether Harris can stay healthy is going to be an issue when he is good we have bookends that are top in the league with Clady but this is the second season he has been hurt. I like our direction so far.

As far as personal go I like the FA's that have been brought in aside from Berger. This Draft was ok I like Ayers and think he will develop nicely as the staff has said over and over again. A. Smith was a total waste My guess is that we loose champ due to the price tag andwe are forced to bring in some less expensive corners my fear is that there will be a noticeable drop here. hopefully I am wrong about Smith but I doubt it. McD should get 3 years but if they take a step back next season and then start out poorly in 2011 he will get the axe hopefully there will be a good replacement for him by then maybe Nolan?

smalltowngrll
01-03-2010, 11:09 AM
We gave Cutler 3 years to prove himself before crucifying him!

I say give McD at least 3 years to get in the personnel that he wants and to implement and train them all in his systems! He hasn't done any worse than Shanny has for the last two years, so why are we all upset about this year? Look back at most of the posts on this site before the season even began. Most didn't even expect us to win 3 games! Here we are staring a possible Wild Card and you all are pissy about it. Is it that we got our hopes up so much when we went 6-0 we just expected to keep on going? Yes, that is the hope; but it's a far cry from where we were pre-season.

I wasn't happy about the firing of Shanny, but I'm fully behind McD at this point.

SureShot
01-03-2010, 11:14 AM
24 games

NFLBRONCO
01-03-2010, 11:30 AM
I say 3 yrs is fair before we make a decision

We are basically starting over from here. I think we will need to see what 2011 team looks like first. Whether you love hate or go with the flow type on Mcd do not lose the fact we are several years away from doing much so to expect unrealstic goals just because you hate McD is silly.

bloodsunday
01-03-2010, 12:24 PM
Mike Shanahan got 10 years after his last Super Bowl. His performance (if we are being honest) was very underwhelming -- at least in terms of division titles and playoff appearances.

I didn't believe it at first, but I am not thinking McDaniels was hired to rebuild this team. I say we need at least 3 years before we can give an accurate judgement. It's pretty obvious there is some strife in the locker room, particularly among the guys left over from the Shanahan era. But given the record over the last 10 games, it shouldn't be that surprising. It appears it was more surprising that they managed to start out 6 - 0.

NFLBRONCO
01-03-2010, 12:32 PM
Mike Shanahan got 10 years after his last Super Bowl. His performance (if we are being honest) was very underwhelming -- at least in terms of division titles and playoff appearances.

I didn't believe it at first, but I am not thinking McDaniels was hired to rebuild this team. I say we need at least 3 years before we can give an accurate judgement. It's pretty obvious there is some strife in the locker room, particularly among the guys left over from the Shanahan era. But given the record over the last 10 games, it shouldn't be that surprising. It appears it was more surprising that they managed to start out 6 - 0.

I don't know when Bowlen fired Mike he spoke about us being a long way away from SB so imo that tells me he thinks we are in rebuild mode.

Archer81
01-03-2010, 12:37 PM
3 seasons. Enough time for the draft classes to actually make an impact and for the holdover players to learn the new systems.

:Broncos:

WolfpackGuy
01-03-2010, 12:38 PM
I didn't believe it at first, but I am not thinking McDaniels was hired to rebuild this team.


The defense needed a rebuild.

If he wanted to rebuild a whole team, he should've gone to STL, DET, or TB.

Taco John
01-03-2010, 12:43 PM
The Honeymoon lasted all of two weeks.

lostknight
01-03-2010, 12:51 PM
We gave Cutler 3 years to prove himself before crucifying him!


Ahh. No. We really didn't. Plummers cheerleaders where all over him day one on.

I wasn't a real fan of McDaniels but really wasn't a fan once they fired the Goodmans. This entire season has born that out. Somehow McDaniels weaseled himself into as much power as Shanny had, and just like Shanny, personnel issues is destroying his ability to coach.

It's the NFL. Winning is the only metric that matters in the end. They make the playoffs, McDaniels looks like a Genius. They loose, and he is a idiot. That's not irony, it's the reflection of the metric that a coach is graded by.


I say give McD at least 3 years to get in the personnel that he wants and to implement and train them all in his systems! He hasn't done any worse than Shanny has for the last two years, so why are we all upset about this year? Look back at most of the posts on this site before the season even began. Most didn't even expect us to win 3 games! Here we are staring a possible Wild Card and you all are pissy about it. Is it that we got our hopes up so much when we went 6-0 we just expected to keep on going? Yes, that is the hope; but it's a far cry from where we were pre-season.

I wasn't happy about the firing of Shanny, but I'm fully behind McD at this point.

We give him two years. He inherited the second best offense in the NFL, and has completely destroyed it. Now he has to prove next year that what he has it better.

DrFate
01-03-2010, 12:51 PM
First of all.....assuming Denver wins today: 9-7 vs. the schedule they played and with new players galore is not "more or less" the same as last years Hochuli aided 8-8;

I appreciate the honest response. That said - I simply don't buy any hand waving used to 'justify' how a .500 season is different than a .500 season (give or take a game, certainly)

You play who you play, you have injuries, you have bad calls, etc. It all balances out. The result - is this team is in the same place as the 08 team. If there are 'new players galore', it is because McDaniels made drastic changes. He takes 100% of responsibility for the outcome, good or bad, correct?

These results got Shanny fired. I wonder how many people who are now claiming 'rebuild' felt that way when McDaniels was introduced to media as the new head coach.

bloodsunday
01-03-2010, 12:52 PM
If he wanted to rebuild a whole team, he should've gone to STL, DET, or TB.

See, I COMPLETELY disagree with this thinking. This is the people who felt the offense was just fine and we should have gone with a defensive-minded head coach. But I think that point of view is built on some false ideologies left over from Mike Shanahan -- namely that you judge and offense on yardage gained. The offense in this town has been AVERAGE for a while now in points scored and more importantly in the red zone. In fact, this 2009 team is doing nearly as well in those categories as last year's team did. What this year's squad is not doing is converting in the red zone or in short yardage, problems left over from Mike Shanahan. These areas mean we needed to re-think our approach on offense as well as defense. You don't win football games in between the 20's.

bloodsunday
01-03-2010, 12:55 PM
I appreciate the honest response. That said - I simply don't buy any hand waving used to 'justify' how a .500 season is different than a .500 season (give or take a game, certainly)

I like the change to McDaniels, but I agree with you here. 8 - 8 and going 0 - 3 when it mattered is the same as 9 - 7 and going 3 - 7 down the stretch in my book. There is no gain there.

Expectations were low, but once you start out 6 - 0, it's a whole different ball game. You simply HAVE to beat the Raiders at home.

Paladin
01-03-2010, 12:56 PM
I say 3 yrs is fair before we make a decision

We are basically starting over from here. I think we will need to see what 2011 team looks like first. Whether you love hate or go with the flow type on Mcd do not lose the fact we are several years away from doing much so to expect unrealstic goals just because you hate McD is silly.

Who is "we" in making the decision? Really, a stupid thread. Bowlen will decide. He's the decider.....

DrFate
01-03-2010, 01:16 PM
Bowlen will decide. He's the decider.....

When did anyone suggest otherwise?

???

bloodsunday
01-03-2010, 01:20 PM
Who is "we" in making the decision? Really, a stupid thread. Bowlen will decide. He's the decider.....

Come on, we all know this is just speculation by fans -- as is most of what goes on this board. Play along.