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View Full Version : Moving On...how do we fix this mess?


mattob14
01-02-2010, 11:53 AM
OK, it looks like Marshall, Sheffler, etc. will be gone for 2010. The sky is falling, etc., etc. I still don't think we're that far away with a couple of key moves. My ideal off-season plan (not necessarily what I think will happen), while trying to maintain some since of realism.

FA: Too many variables with the uncapped year and until we know tenders, I'm not going to predict anything. I'd love Mankins, Franklin, Wilfork, Seymour, etc., but doubt that will happen.

Re-Sign:
Doomerville- give him a long-term deal and have your pass-rusher set for the next 5-6 years.
Orton- I'd only give him a short-term deal, then start grooming a replacement.
Kuper- Solid OG, give him a nice deal and help stabilize that interior OL.

Trade:
Brandon Marshall- at this point, it's pretty much a given he'll be gone. I'd think a team like Baltimore (picking somewhere in the 20's), would have a lot of interest in putting a Flacco, Rice, Marshall trio together. I'll shoot for a 1st and 3rd here, though the 1st alone may be more realistic.

Tony Sheffler- Another Shanny leftover who will be shown the door, for better or worse. I'm guessing we get a 4th out of Sheff.

#10 overall selection- I'd like to move down from #10 and Seattle matches up well. Move #10 (1300 points on value chart) to Seattle for #21 (our original choice, 800 points) and #40 (500 points). Seattle can target two of the Okung, Spiller, Bryant, Clausen, Bradford group.

#21 overall selection- The 2nd round intrigues me more than the first this year. Pattern a trade off of the 2008 Philly/Carolina trade- #21 for a 2nd (we'll say #41) and 2011 1st.

Anquan Bolden- One of the league's premier WR's, Bolden has been rumored to be on the block for the last couple of years. A tough, physical WR who can pick up YAC and show a team-first attitude, Bolden could be a nice replacement for Marshall. His price will likely be slightly lower than BM due to age, but I think a 2nd (#40) and 4th may get it done.

Draft:
Round 1 (Baltimore's selection, likely in the 20-25 range): Mike Iupati, G, Idaho: Big, physical specimen at OG, could instantly upgrade the OL and fill in at RT if needed in an emergency. I don't like taking G's this high, but he may have the most instant impact for this team in this draft.

Round 2a (#41): Corey Wooton, DE, Northwestern: 6'7", 280lb DE who was a little inconsistent this season coming off of knee surgery. He's on the 1st round bubble right now, but could be an impact DE if he's available at this point.

Round 2b: Tony Pike, QB, Cincinnati: I've heard the questions about the zip on his mid-range passes, strength, and durability, but I still think he could be one of the best QB's in this draft when all is said and done. He's a 6'6", mobile QB who throws a nice deep ball and has shown nice ball placement in the limited time I've seen him. He's also led a couple of nice comebacks this season and could be the 2011 starter after a year in the weight room.

Round 3a: Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, CB, Indiana (PA): A big (6'1", 205) CB with good athleticism who has been very productive against small-school competition. Will miss the post-season games because of injury, but should be ready to go for the combine. A sleeper with big-time talent who falls because of LOC questions.

Round 3b (from BM trade): Mike Williams, WR, Syracuse: Big, athletic WR who had 1st round potential, but was suspended, then later quit the team. Interviews will be key here, but a strong veteran influence like Bolden could really help his development.

Round 4: Eric Olsen, C, ND: Another tough, nasty OL, Olsen seems to be a little underrated this year. He and Iupati would bring a ton of size and toughness to the interior line.

Round 6: Brandon Minor, RB, Michigan: Admittedly, I haven't dug into the prospects this year enough to be identifying late-round sleepers, but Minor's a good-sized back who could provide depth to Knowshon.

Round 7: Matt Dodge, P, E Carolina: Colquitt will be the top punter going into next year, but I don't know if they can just hand him the job. Dodge would bring competition in camp and is one of the top punters in the country this year.

Overall, I think this team would be competitive in 2010 with a chance to make some real noise in 2011, when they'll have 2 #1's and, hopefully, much less controversy swirling around the team.

Popps
01-02-2010, 11:57 AM
We need to shore up the OL, first... and add at least one more impact player to the front seven.

Outside of that, I think we've got to work on general team speed. We could look for help in that regard at a RB/KR/WR.

But, we've got all off-season to think about it.

We need to win tomorrow, first.

Cito Pelon
01-02-2010, 11:57 AM
What mess?

TheDave
01-02-2010, 11:59 AM
What mess?

2-7... Try to keep up.


At this point I have to agree with popps... Ofensive line and Dline. Give Orton and the rest of the O another year in the system and let's hope for the best.

Inkana7
01-02-2010, 12:05 PM
Get bigger, more physical. Build like the Vikings have. They weren't very good at all a few years ago. They drafted and signed great O-Linemen and Front-7 players and went from there.

WABronco
01-02-2010, 12:05 PM
Napalm. Cures everything.

KipCorrington25
01-02-2010, 12:13 PM
Qb qb qb qb qb qb qb qb qb qb qb qb qb qb qb

Pony Boy
01-02-2010, 12:21 PM
I like the first part of your post but don't like the draft picks, Tony Pike would be a waste. I kind of fall in with Popps and The Dave O&D lines need help. Let McD coach another year and see what happens, and if it's this bad again at the end of the season, I will help put the noose around his neck but not till then.

HAT
01-02-2010, 12:23 PM
I would love everything about those draft day maneuvers & 1st and 2nd round picks. (Including grabbing Pike in the mid-2nd....even though I've said I'd rather they wait until 2011 or 2012 to get one of the Pac-10 studs).

If McD could parlay that Chicago pick into a 40 & 41 this year and a 2011 first that would be an epic win.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2010, 12:25 PM
How about trading BM to get our pick back.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2010, 12:29 PM
This mess will take several years to fix we need to upgrade our core with more younger talent for more longterm solutions.

Popps
01-02-2010, 12:30 PM
2-7... Try to keep up.



Again, 2 of those 7 were lost without our starting QB, and the last three by a total of 4 points or less.

A loss is a loss.

That said, to call anything a "mess" right now is a real stretch.

We're an improved team, whether people want to accept it or not. We had Philly against the ropes with 2 minutes left. We just couldn't finish it.

Philly is arguably the best team in the NFC.

Last year's Broncos lost 52-21 when they faced a playoff team.

So, you have to look at this with a little perspective.

We're going to finish around .500, with an improved team.

There's no "mess" here, just a rough stretch of games.

Popps
01-02-2010, 12:31 PM
How about trading BM to get our pick back.

People gave more for Cutler than I thought... but I can't imagine anyone giving a #1 for Marshall.

Given the depth this year, if someone would... I think we have to jump at it.

Broncos4tw
01-02-2010, 12:39 PM
Except that our offense was almost completely centered around Marshall, who will probably be gone. I suppose we'll soon see how Orton does with what he has on hand.

Popps
01-02-2010, 12:42 PM
Except that our offense was almost completely centered around Marshall, who will probably be gone. I suppose we'll soon see how Orton does with what he has on hand.

True. Losing him will hurt. There's just no two-ways about it.

Going forward, though... we've got to have a more balanced passing attack, anyway. It's just going to suck if we lose our best target.


But, nothing will surprise me. Marshall may be playing in a playoff game for us in two weeks, so... I'll just wait to see what happens.

ludo21
01-02-2010, 12:57 PM
Both lines need more size and talent and depth.

Get another QB to compete ( I also like Pike a lot), and more WR as well.

barryr
01-02-2010, 01:00 PM
With Marshall's past actions and attitude, why in the world would a team offer a high draft choice for Marshall knowing he would also be looking for big money on his next contract that would be coming soon? I don't see any teams that dumb.

Cito Pelon
01-02-2010, 01:01 PM
2-7... Try to keep up.


At this point I have to agree with popps... Ofensive line and Dline. Give Orton and the rest of the O another year in the system and let's hope for the best.

2-7, blah, blah, blah. Denver lost to Baltimore, Indy and Philly on the road, lost to Pittsburgh and SD at home. All teams that are either locked into the playoffs or still good playoff contenders - like Denver is. Sure would have been nice to win a couple of those but I'm not gonna snivel about it at this point.

I'm looking forward to Denver somehow sneaking into the playoffs and maybe winning a couple. It's not like Denver is some kind of crap team, they're actually pretty good.

gyldenlove
01-02-2010, 01:11 PM
OK, it looks like Marshall, Sheffler, etc. will be gone for 2010. The sky is falling, etc., etc. I still don't think we're that far away with a couple of key moves. My ideal off-season plan (not necessarily what I think will happen), while trying to maintain some since of realism.

FA: Too many variables with the uncapped year and until we know tenders, I'm not going to predict anything. I'd love Mankins, Franklin, Wilfork, Seymour, etc., but doubt that will happen.

Re-Sign:
Doomerville- give him a long-term deal and have your pass-rusher set for the next 5-6 years.
Orton- I'd only give him a short-term deal, then start grooming a replacement.
Kuper- Solid OG, give him a nice deal and help stabilize that interior OL.

Trade:
Brandon Marshall- at this point, it's pretty much a given he'll be gone. I'd think a team like Baltimore (picking somewhere in the 20's), would have a lot of interest in putting a Flacco, Rice, Marshall trio together. I'll shoot for a 1st and 3rd here, though the 1st alone may be more realistic.

Tony Sheffler- Another Shanny leftover who will be shown the door, for better or worse. I'm guessing we get a 4th out of Sheff.

#10 overall selection- I'd like to move down from #10 and Seattle matches up well. Move #10 (1300 points on value chart) to Seattle for #21 (our original choice, 800 points) and #40 (500 points). Seattle can target two of the Okung, Spiller, Bryant, Clausen, Bradford group.

#21 overall selection- The 2nd round intrigues me more than the first this year. Pattern a trade off of the 2008 Philly/Carolina trade- #21 for a 2nd (we'll say #41) and 2011 1st.

Anquan Bolden- One of the league's premier WR's, Bolden has been rumored to be on the block for the last couple of years. A tough, physical WR who can pick up YAC and show a team-first attitude, Bolden could be a nice replacement for Marshall. His price will likely be slightly lower than BM due to age, but I think a 2nd (#40) and 4th may get it done.

Draft:
Round 1 (Baltimore's selection, likely in the 20-25 range): Mike Iupati, G, Idaho: Big, physical specimen at OG, could instantly upgrade the OL and fill in at RT if needed in an emergency. I don't like taking G's this high, but he may have the most instant impact for this team in this draft.

Round 2a (#41): Corey Wooton, DE, Northwestern: 6'7", 280lb DE who was a little inconsistent this season coming off of knee surgery. He's on the 1st round bubble right now, but could be an impact DE if he's available at this point.

Round 2b: Tony Pike, QB, Cincinnati: I've heard the questions about the zip on his mid-range passes, strength, and durability, but I still think he could be one of the best QB's in this draft when all is said and done. He's a 6'6", mobile QB who throws a nice deep ball and has shown nice ball placement in the limited time I've seen him. He's also led a couple of nice comebacks this season and could be the 2011 starter after a year in the weight room.

Round 3a: Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, CB, Indiana (PA): A big (6'1", 205) CB with good athleticism who has been very productive against small-school competition. Will miss the post-season games because of injury, but should be ready to go for the combine. A sleeper with big-time talent who falls because of LOC questions.

Round 3b (from BM trade): Mike Williams, WR, Syracuse: Big, athletic WR who had 1st round potential, but was suspended, then later quit the team. Interviews will be key here, but a strong veteran influence like Bolden could really help his development.

Round 4: Eric Olsen, C, ND: Another tough, nasty OL, Olsen seems to be a little underrated this year. He and Iupati would bring a ton of size and toughness to the interior line.

Round 6: Brandon Minor, RB, Michigan: Admittedly, I haven't dug into the prospects this year enough to be identifying late-round sleepers, but Minor's a good-sized back who could provide depth to Knowshon.

Round 7: Matt Dodge, P, E Carolina: Colquitt will be the top punter going into next year, but I don't know if they can just hand him the job. Dodge would bring competition in camp and is one of the top punters in the country this year.

Overall, I think this team would be competitive in 2010 with a chance to make some real noise in 2011, when they'll have 2 #1's and, hopefully, much less controversy swirling around the team.

Getting a 4th for Scheffler might be setting the bar high, a 2nd rounder lands you a pro bowl TE like Kellen Winslow, Jeremy Shockey (used to be) or Tony Gonzalez, especially during the offseason when injuries are not a factor, I think a 5th is more likely.

I don't see Seattle trading up to 2 high 1st rounders, especially not in what is expected to be the last draft without a rookie wage scale, getting saddled in with 2 large rookie contracts could be really dangerous.

Anquan Boldin is not available, he has requested trades the last 2 years and hasn't gotten it, he is signed for another 2 years and the Cardinals have no reason to let him go unless they get an offer in the Jay Cutler range and I doubt anyone is stupid enough to throw two 1st rounders after a WR who wants that kind of dough.

This plan would work really well in Madden 10, not so much in the NFL.

Cito Pelon
01-02-2010, 01:16 PM
True. Losing him will hurt. There's just no two-ways about it.

Going forward, though... we've got to have a more balanced passing attack, anyway. It's just going to suck if we lose our best target.


But, nothing will surprise me. Marshall may be playing in a playoff game for us in two weeks, so... I'll just wait to see what happens.

That always works. Piss off, Dave. :wave:

Atwater His Ass
01-02-2010, 01:21 PM
At this point I have to agree with popps... Ofensive line and Dline.

LOL that's just too funny for words. Really.

Anyway, by far and away, QB is the #1 off-season need. Both trying to work out a short term deal with Orton, and getting the QB of the future in here asap.

#2 is re-signing Doom.

#3 is interior OL.

#4 is Bmarsh.

ayjackson
01-02-2010, 01:28 PM
I'd hate to trade down from number 10. There could be some real difference makers there, whether it'd be an ILB, DE or QB. Target a couple and if they're gone, look to move down would be good. Hopefully recover a top 40 pick for Marshall.

I agree focus on the Lines, a 2-3 year deal for Orton, and a QB for the future.

bowtown
01-02-2010, 01:45 PM
Like many of the genius posters here, I would like to keep hiring and firing head coaches every year until we win a Super Bowl. That seems like the best recipe for success.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2010, 01:56 PM
People gave more for Cutler than I thought... but I can't imagine anyone giving a #1 for Marshall.

Given the depth this year, if someone would... I think we have to jump at it.

What do you think BM is worth?

Hamrob
01-02-2010, 02:16 PM
People gave more for Cutler than I thought... but I can't imagine anyone giving a #1 for Marshall.

Given the depth this year, if someone would... I think we have to jump at it.Poops you say some of the most ignorant things some times. Brandon Marshall is a beast. He has had 3 straight 100 catch years and just made the pro bowl his 2nd year in a row. To top it off...he's only 25. Teams would gladly give us a 1 & a 3 for him. Sit back and watch. Heck, we may not even let him go...despite all this crap.

Hamrob
01-02-2010, 02:19 PM
With Marshall's past actions and attitude, why in the world would a team offer a high draft choice for Marshall knowing he would also be looking for big money on his next contract that would be coming soon? I don't see any teams that dumb.Give me a break. Do you really believe that crap. Marshall is a top 5 receiver who just had his 3rd 100 catch year and was voted to his 2nd pro bowl. He's 25 flippin years old. Several teams will be interested and more than one will be willing to give us a 1 and a 3 for him.

Blueflame
01-02-2010, 02:22 PM
What do you think BM is worth?

I'm not sure Popps wouldn't pull the trigger if someone offered a day-old bologna sandwich.... :P

Hamrob
01-02-2010, 02:30 PM
We need to do a better job of calling plays and utilizing the talent we have
Our HC needs to learn from his mistakes b/c he's made many
We need to Improve in the trenches on both sides
We need to add a playmaker or two
Kyle Orton needs to improve immensely
We need to get better backup plan at QB then Simms
We need to decide what we're going to do about Champ ($8m next yr)
We need to find another young back to compliment Moreno


That's just some of the stuff we need to work on in the offseason. It should be exciting. I really do hope that McDaniels succeeds. I just don't like the fact that he is so inflexible and doesn't seem to listen to his players...at all.

Maybe the Raiders or Bengals will do us a solid tomorrow. Who knows.

TheDave
01-02-2010, 02:41 PM
2-7, blah, blah, blah. Denver lost to Baltimore, Indy and Philly on the road, lost to Pittsburgh and SD at home. All teams that are either locked into the playoffs or still good playoff contenders - like Denver is. Sure would have been nice to win a couple of those but I'm not gonna snivel about it at this point.

I'm looking forward to Denver somehow sneaking into the playoffs and maybe winning a couple. It's not like Denver is some kind of crap team, they're actually pretty good.

We need to get you a new word other than snivel... it's a message board where we talk broncos. Both good and bad.

Like it or not 2-7 is a mess no matter how hard you and popps try and spin it. We need to make significant improvements this offseason. You may want to try engaging in the discussion instead of pretending there is nothing to improve.

Cito Pelon
01-02-2010, 03:59 PM
We need to get you a new word other than snivel... it's a message board where we talk broncos. Both good and bad.

Like it or not 2-7 is a mess no matter how hard you and popps try and spin it. We need to make significant improvements this offseason. You may want to try engaging in the discussion instead of pretending there is nothing to improve.

"Snivel" is a perfect fit for some of our regular posters. I'll talk good and bad, but as we well know a lot of the regulars in 2009 are just plain snivelers. There actually isn't much synonyms for "snivel". It stands on its own and is appropriate I think.

Just relax and see how it plays out.

barryr
01-02-2010, 06:21 PM
Give me a break. Do you really believe that crap. Marshall is a top 5 receiver who just had his 3rd 100 catch year and was voted to his 2nd pro bowl. He's 25 flippin years old. Several teams will be interested and more than one will be willing to give us a 1 and a 3 for him.

Sure.

colonelbeef
01-02-2010, 06:43 PM
What mess?

hahahaha

Have to love the willfully ignorant.

colonelbeef
01-02-2010, 06:45 PM
With Marshall's past actions and attitude, why in the world would a team offer a high draft choice for Marshall knowing he would also be looking for big money on his next contract that would be coming soon? I don't see any teams that dumb.

Because lots of other teams aren't retarded like you, and understand that a receiver like Marshall doesn't often become available, especially at the age of 25.

Look at the difference in the Giants before and after Plaxico shot himself. Having a bonafide #1 receiver is a must for a championship caliber team.

The 2009 Broncos without Brandon Marshall are a 5 win team at best.

uplink
01-02-2010, 07:28 PM
This team can't bounce back after a loss or two hence the slide during the second half of the season every year. No way they should have lost to the skins and raiders.

Need to install the mentality for success, maybe by letting senior players like Dawkins help with motivation and more players meeting etc. The bolts did so well the past 2 years in the 2nd half of the season since their vets installed the will to win on the team I suspect. I don't think more talent or new schemes are the answer.
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rugbythug
01-02-2010, 07:39 PM
B Marsh Could be worth as much as 2 #1's. He is the best player to be availible in a long time. Washington was going to give 2 #1's for Chad Ocho. Roy MF Williams was worth a 1 and a 3. Other recievers have been worth 2 #1's. Joey Galloway for instance. B marsh is a player. And as of yet he as not talked **** on McD.

ZONA
01-02-2010, 10:26 PM
Just because McD deactivated an injured BM doesn't mean it looks like he is gone next year. Frickin drama queens I tell ya.

Hey, there is a guy standing on a bridge, he must want to jump. He couldn't possibly be oh, taking in the view, doesn't have a car and is walking, looking for something he may have lost there, waiting for somebody, or a thousand other things. He definitely must be wanting to jump. LOL

watermock
01-03-2010, 04:42 AM
Beavis vs. Malcontents.

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elsid13
01-03-2010, 05:04 AM
You want Mike Williams from Syracuse that walked away from his team?

watermock
01-03-2010, 05:08 AM
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Elway777
01-03-2010, 08:53 AM
This would be My draft and offseason if we get a first round pick for Marshall and a 4 round pick for scheffler.

I would target a Nose Tackle in Franklin and Ryan Pickett.
I would also target a wide receiver like Jason Avant from Philly
I would also look for another corner maybe Ellis Hobbs.
I would also target Ben Watson for tight end .


I woud offer Kuper a second round tender and Orton a first round tender
I would sign Dumervil to long term contract maybe 6 years 42 million.

Draft 1a. Dez Bryant, best receiver in draft
1b Mike Iupata , best guard in draft
2. kris O' Dowd , best center in draft
3. Mike Neal , 3-4 defensive end
4. Sean Canfield from oregan state , supper quick release plus strong
arm , good size and deadly accurate completing 70 % of passes.
4b Ed Xickson from oregan, recieving TE that replaces Scheffler.
6. Jeffery Fitzgerald, another 3-4 defensive end.
7. Pat Paschall , 3 down back from North Dakota state. Reminds me of Terrell Davis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbufca7znJ4

I would also sign Pattrick Stoudamire, Arthur Moats, Pat Dodge, Mark Mariani ,Antonio Baker, and Rafael Priest as undrafted free agents.

TD30
01-03-2010, 08:56 AM
It will be interesting to watch the game Warren sapp just made the comment that the bronco players will rebel against Josh today and kc will win. Said it like he heard something

elsid13
01-03-2010, 09:03 AM
It will be interesting to watch the game Warren sapp just made the comment that the bronco players will rebel against Josh today and kc will win. Said it like he heard something

Heard what?

uplink
01-03-2010, 09:04 AM
the draft is a crap shoot and most free agents are past it. They need to clone B Dawkins 52 times.
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TD30
01-03-2010, 09:08 AM
It was a strange comment but stated that the broncos will lose because the players are going to rebel against Josh. He made it sound like he had been in contact with the bronco players and Irvin acted like it was true. Not saying we should beleive anything sapp has to say but it may be intersting to see if anyone dogs it today. It's just something to look for, I find it hard to believe that an entire team would lose on purpose.

Black96WS6
01-03-2010, 09:18 AM
LOL that's just too funny for words. Really.

Anyway, by far and away, QB is the #1 off-season need. Both trying to work out a short term deal with Orton, and getting the QB of the future in here asap.

#2 is re-signing Doom.

#3 is interior OL.

#4 is Bmarsh.

I agree with the QB need, however, if Marshall is as good as gone due to his attitude next year, who is the new QB going to throw to?