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View Full Version : You could only have 1 of these elite players. Elvis Dumervil or Brandon Marshall


KevinJames
01-01-2010, 01:47 PM
Seems like the writing is starting to be on the wall with Marshall he is going to want to be the highest paid WR in the NFL this off season and expect it to be a very large task to sign him. Hes been productive this year kept his mouth shut and broke the NFL record for catches in a single game.

On the other hand we have Elvis Dumervil who made the pro bowl this year for the first time and is leading the league in sacks. Denver's never had a consistent pass rush until Doom was converted to a 3-4 OLB and now he is a terror to block, I never see him take plays off his motor keeps going and going. Hes going to want a big contract too but I think it would be reasonable.

When you have a pass rusher like that you don't let him go.
When you have a WR like that you don't let him go.

but Marshall has had so many question marks off the field and accountability issues start to come into question this season, if McDaniels is saying more players are playing through far worse that makes it sound like Marshall is just looking out for himself and worried about $$$ and thats what it seems to be with him......

I like them both hell I wanna keep them both.....

both you can only keep 1

Elite Pass Rusher or Elite Wide Receiver

I think its harder to find a good pass rusher than it is a good WR so I am picking Elvis Dumervil.

what does the mane think?

TheDave
01-01-2010, 01:49 PM
Doom... Pass rushers are the 2nd hardest postition to find in the NFL.

Popps
01-01-2010, 01:52 PM
Doom, without question.

TO AN EXTENT, you can manufacture offense with scheme and good players. (See NE's pre-Moss offenses.)

You'll rarely if ever see a great defense without a great, natural pass-rusher.

bombay
01-01-2010, 01:55 PM
Both. I'll take both.

BMarsh615
01-01-2010, 01:57 PM
Denver can't really do without either of these guys. Brandon Marshall is the only thing teams have to worry about on offense. Dumervil is the only guy on our team who can get to the QB.

I would say keeping Marshall is more important though. I think it would be easier to find 3-4 OLB than a 6'5'' 240 pound beast at WR.

SureShot
01-01-2010, 02:12 PM
Denver can't really do without either of these guys. Brandon Marshall is the only thing teams have to worry about on offense. Dumervil is the only guy on our team who can get to the QB.

I would say keeping Marshall is more important though. I think it would be easier to find 3-4 OLB than a 6'5'' 240 pound beast at WR.

Just draft this guy.


http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/files/2009/08/3293708869_8a7e4aa7dc.jpg

Ziggy
01-01-2010, 02:12 PM
I'll take Doom, not only because he's a pass rusher, but because he's the consumate professional and not 1 strike away from a long suspension.

Hogan11
01-01-2010, 02:15 PM
When was the last time this team had an elite pass rusher?

Put that up against the times the team had an elite WR and you'll have your answer.

DenverBrit
01-01-2010, 02:29 PM
I'll take Doom, not only because he's a pass rusher, but because he's the consumate professional and not 1 strike away from a long suspension.

+1 :thumbsup:

KevinJames
01-01-2010, 02:32 PM
Just draft this guy.


http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/files/2009/08/3293708869_8a7e4aa7dc.jpg

I wouldn't mind him or Benn both seem like smaller but faster and more athletic versions of Marshall.

yavoon
01-01-2010, 02:38 PM
dumerville, marshall is awesome but dropped balls aggravate me quite a bit.

OrangeShadow
01-01-2010, 02:52 PM
Doom, end of discussion

Fusionfrontman
01-01-2010, 03:07 PM
Marshall. He can dominate games as we have seen. Doom is very good, but I dont believe he dominates games.
But Elvis is my 2nd favorite Bronco so I say keep them both!

SonOfLe-loLang
01-01-2010, 03:11 PM
Just draft this guy.


http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/files/2009/08/3293708869_8a7e4aa7dc.jpg

So we should trade a young, top 5 receiver and draft another receiver who has proven nothing in the NFL? hmmm...

KevinJames
01-01-2010, 03:14 PM
So we should trade a young, top 5 receiver and draft another receiver who has proven nothing in the NFL? hmmm...

if he doesn't wanna be here we better try and get the best deal we can out of it.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-01-2010, 03:22 PM
if he doesn't wanna be here we better try and get the best deal we can out of it.

The guy plays hard and you dont know if he doesnt want to be here. we still know so little about this situation.

Electric Chair
01-01-2010, 03:26 PM
The guy plays hard and you dont know if he doesnt want to be here. we still know so little about this situation.

Marshall wants a real QB that is going to give him a real opportunity to get paid. Stats = contracts.

sixtimeseight
01-01-2010, 03:28 PM
So we should trade a young, top 5 receiver and draft another receiver who has proven nothing in the NFL? hmmm...

marshall is nowhere close to top 5. top 15 maybe.

Ambiguous
01-01-2010, 03:31 PM
if he doesn't wanna be here we better try and get the best deal we can out of it.

Agreed, I'd rather have a bad football team if it meant we could avoid drama that didn't involve football.

At this point I don't know whether McDaniels or Marshall is the problem, but it doesn't really matter. You can't fire a coach over a player, even if it is his fault. So I think BM is done. It sucks, but he's just had way too much BS this year.

BMarsh615
01-01-2010, 03:39 PM
Marshall wants a real QB that is going to give him a real opportunity to get paid. Stats = contracts.

Uh... Marshall was just as productive as he was last year and made another Pro Bowl. He has already earned his money and will get his contract in the offseason..... Hopefully from Denver

Cool Breeze
01-01-2010, 03:41 PM
Doom is a good player and a good citizen.
Marshall is a good player.
I picked Doom

PRBronco
01-01-2010, 03:51 PM
As retarded as this sounds, given the seasons both are having, I don't think I'd classify either as "elite". Top 10 at their positions, yes. But I believe both of their production is the result of scheming in Elvis's case, and being bird-dogged in Marshall's case. I hope I used bird-dogged right. I've seen Elvis lose 1 on 1 battles with horrendous left tackles too many times.

That being said I choose Elvis. He's still a good player, and has no baggage. And a marquee pass rusher is more important than a marquee receiver every day of the week. Look no further than the Colts game.

uplink
01-01-2010, 03:56 PM
Can the broncos sign either given the contract extension they'd be crazy not to give Hillis?

GreatBronco16
01-01-2010, 04:04 PM
Marshall wants a real QB that is going to give him a real opportunity to get paid. Stats = contracts.

Perhaps you should go and look at his stats this year.

broncosteven
01-01-2010, 04:10 PM
I think it is hard to give up a 100+ catch WR who is the only playmaker who has singlehandedly won a couple games this year leave at the prime of his career.

Doom can be schemed against and has disappeared in games. I like the guy but prefer having a great WR considering we no longer have a QB who can stretch the field.

hades
01-01-2010, 04:11 PM
Doom, we may be able to pick up TO for a 1 or 2 year deal!! :thumbsup:

Greatspirits
01-01-2010, 05:55 PM
Doom! Of course!!

DBroncos4life
01-01-2010, 05:58 PM
I don't think it's as hard to find a pass rusher from the OLB in a 3-4. A DE in a 4-3 is another thing though.

Hamrob
01-01-2010, 06:24 PM
marshall is nowhere close to top 5. top 15 maybe.Let's think about this. How many WR's do the invite to the ProBowl? And, isn't this the 2nd year in a row he's gone to the Probowl. So, that would make him...what...at least top 6-8 right?

Tombstone RJ
01-01-2010, 07:09 PM
Seems like the writing is starting to be on the wall with Marshall he is going to want to be the highest paid WR in the NFL this off season and expect it to be a very large task to sign him. Hes been productive this year kept his mouth shut and broke the NFL record for catches in a single game.

On the other hand we have Elvis Dumervil who made the pro bowl this year for the first time and is leading the league in sacks. Denver's never had a consistent pass rush until Doom was converted to a 3-4 OLB and now he is a terror to block, I never see him take plays off his motor keeps going and going. Hes going to want a big contract too but I think it would be reasonable.

When you have a pass rusher like that you don't let him go.
When you have a WR like that you don't let him go.

but Marshall has had so many question marks off the field and accountability issues start to come into question this season, if McDaniels is saying more players are playing through far worse that makes it sound like Marshall is just looking out for himself and worried about $$$ and thats what it seems to be with him......

I like them both hell I wanna keep them both.....

both you can only keep 1

Elite Pass Rusher or Elite Wide Receiver

I think its harder to find a good pass rusher than it is a good WR so I am picking Elvis Dumervil.

what does the mane think?

Great question! I refuse to vote because its too difficult to choose.

Kaylore
01-01-2010, 10:00 PM
Elvis. All the eliteness of Marshall without any of the off the field issues.

ZONA
01-01-2010, 10:21 PM
Brandon Marshall is the only thing teams have to worry about on offense.

I would say keeping Marshall is more important though. I think it would be easier to find 3-4 OLB than a 6'5'' 240 pound beast at WR.

That's it in a nutshell folks.


I obviously would love for us to keep both but whoever thinks that an elite pass rusher is more important then an elite WR is stupid. Both are very important but all you have to do is go around the league and just ask the teams that have both, who would they keep.

Colts - They would keep Wayne instead of Freeny
Texans - They would keep Johnson instead of Williams
Saints - They would keep Colston instead of Smith

IMHO, I think 120 catches/10 TD's/ 1400 Yards > 15 sacks.

SureShot
01-01-2010, 11:14 PM
So we should trade a young, top 5 receiver and draft another receiver who has proven nothing in the NFL? hmmm...

My point was that I think it would be easier to replace Marshall than Dumervil.

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2010, 12:39 AM
i weighed both options and came to a stalemate.

neither of them if they are allowed to leave will be replaced with a guy who will match their contributions. it just won't happen that a new WR will come in and dominate like Marshall, and no new OLB is going to step in and become the single season sacks record holder of this franchise.

so with those things in mind, i went to the intangibles.

Marshall for all his incredible talent, still has character issues and is showing more and more, all he cares about is money. his actions speak more of a guy more worried about getting his due, than helping his team get to the playoffs.

Doom on the other hand, went into this season as a legit pass rushing force, was asked to change positions, and he came to work, shut his mouth and did what was asked of him. he gives all he has every single play, even though he is getting paid 4th round money for superstar production. he hasn't let money cloud his judgment about his job. he has a much better attitude, and is a better investment than Marshall.

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2010, 12:46 AM
That's it in a nutshell folks.


I obviously would love for us to keep both but whoever thinks that an elite pass rusher is more important then an elite WR is stupid. Both are very important but all you have to do is go around the league and just ask the teams that have both, who would they keep.

Colts - They would keep Wayne instead of Freeny
Texans - They would keep Johnson instead of Williams
Saints - They would keep Colston instead of Smith

IMHO, I think 120 catches/10 TD's/ 1400 Yards > 15 sacks.

sorry to be the nbearer of bad news, but Wayne, Johnson and Colston all have more better stats than Marshall. Marshall has a ton of catches, but a low YPC average and until this season was never a guy who caught a lot of TDs. those guys all have higher YPC averages, near as many catches and all get into the end zone often. also, not one of them has legal problems, a ****ty attitude or have the me 1st mindset that Marshall does. in fact i would take any of those 3 receivers on my team over Marshall.

also, Doom is better than all of those pass rushers you named.

so you comparison of stats should look like this
100 catches, 1100 yards, 8 TDs < 17 sacks and just getting used to playing the position he is dominating.

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2010, 12:56 AM
I don't think it's as hard to find a pass rusher from the OLB in a 3-4. A DE in a 4-3 is another thing though.

yes it is easier to find a pass rushing OLB than a 4-3 DE, however, it is almost impossible to find a pass rusher who is going to average almost a sack a game after 4 years in the league.

Marshall's numbers can be replaced by another good receiver.

look no farther than Royal as an example. Eddie last season had 91 receptions for almost 1000 yards, in a season where for basically the entire middle part of the schedule he was ignored by Cutler. this season Marshall has 101 for 1040 yards and if his monster game weeks back was just an average performance for him his numbers would be somewhere in the range of 85 recptions and 850 yards. the numbers aren't that different. Marshall while he is a great weapon that creates mismatches all over the place his numbers are not so great that they could never be replicated by another good possession receiver.

Doom on the other hand, you won't find another guy easily who will do what he has done in his career so far. he averages about a sack a game, and for his incredible season, it is often overlooked that it is his 1st year at this position and he still has not fully learned everything about the position. he is going to get better.


if it is a choice between the 2, i take Doom without even a second thought.

KevinJames
01-02-2010, 01:33 AM
That's it in a nutshell folks.


I obviously would love for us to keep both but whoever thinks that an elite pass rusher is more important then an elite WR is stupid. Both are very important but all you have to do is go around the league and just ask the teams that have both, who would they keep.

Colts - They would keep Wayne instead of Freeny
Texans - They would keep Johnson instead of Williams
Saints - They would keep Colston instead of Smith

IMHO, I think 120 catches/10 TD's/ 1400 Yards > 15 sacks.

Difference is Wayne, Johnson and Colston are all class acts and you rarely even hear a word out of them......Marshall on the other hand well he has a history of being a complete idiot and hes one strike away from a year long suspension......so theres a big difference.

I would disagree with Wayne over Freeney tho Freeney n Mathis is the reason why their D is consistently decent every year and Peyton can operate with any WRs as hes shown this year.

HEAV
01-02-2010, 12:57 PM
Elvis Dumervil

Too many times under Shanny did this team watch it's sack leader leave for greener fields.

HEAV
01-02-2010, 12:59 PM
Just draft this guy.


http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/files/2009/08/3293708869_8a7e4aa7dc.jpg

Dez Bryant is my hope also. He's going to be great in the NFL and he can handle a bubble screen, run like a dear after the catch and isn't no where near the headache Marshall is.

Captain 'Dre
01-02-2010, 02:17 PM
Dumerville, because I'm more a fan of SUSPENSE than I am of DRAMA. Ha!

bloodsunday
01-02-2010, 06:20 PM
I personally don't think either of them is elite. Elite to me means that it's a player that not only puts up stats, but WINS games. In other words, makes plays when must-win games are on the line. Neither has really done enough of that IMO to be called elite.

That said, if I HAVE to choose between these two, I'll take Dumerville because his position is tougher to fill.

ZONA
01-02-2010, 11:41 PM
sorry to be the nbearer of bad news, but Wayne, Johnson and Colston all have more better stats than Marshall. Marshall has a ton of catches, but a low YPC average and until this season was never a guy who caught a lot of TDs. those guys all have higher YPC averages, near as many catches and all get into the end zone often. also, not one of them has legal problems, a ****ty attitude or have the me 1st mindset that Marshall does. in fact i would take any of those 3 receivers on my team over Marshall.

also, Doom is better than all of those pass rushers you named.

so you comparison of stats should look like this
100 catches, 1100 yards, 8 TDs < 17 sacks and just getting used to playing the position he is dominating.

You have to consider that those 3 receivers are also in some of the best, if not the best offenses in the league, and 2 of them have Manning and Breez throwing them the ball. I would expect their stats to be better. And are we always going to hold Marshall's past against him? He's clearly changed his attitude and has played great this year and I've yet to hear any of his teamates say anything bad about his competitiveness. To suggest he is only playing for money is frickin hilarious. He's been the most underpaid WR in the league for the past 2 years. If it's so easy to replace a BM, as some say look at Royals stats from last year, well what are his stats like this year? BM gets it done, no matter who you have as the QB. And Doom is not dominating his position as you suggest. He's got the sacks but he's not dominating against the run. I like his progress but lets not make him out to be Harrison just yet ok.

Sassy
01-02-2010, 11:43 PM
Doom!

Wes Mantooth
01-02-2010, 11:48 PM
Doom. We let too many pass rushers go over the years. Bout time we hang on to a good one in or near his prime.

ZONA
01-03-2010, 12:15 AM
I think it's great to have a good pass rusher but I think it's better to have a few guys who are really good at it then 1 guy who is great at it. It's harder for an offense to account for several good rushers then it is for one great rusher. I remember when Arizona played Minnesota and they easily took Allen out of the game just by having a back chip on him nearly every play. The back didn't stay with the block, he just chipped and then went out into a pass route so it wasn't like it really took away 2 of the offensive players.

That's why the Steelers are harder to block then us, even though they don't have an "elite" pass rusher. They just have 2 or 3 guys who can get the sack for you where we really only have one at the moment.

I'm all for signing Doom but I would hope that we would put some goals in his contract that account for him being able to play the run better. If we had a 4-3 and he was the DE then no biggie, but we play a 3-4 and he has to play the run better to earn a top dollar OLB contract, such as what you see with Harrison from the Steelers.

Popps
01-03-2010, 12:25 AM
Doom. We let too many pass rushers go over the years. Bout time we hang on to a good one in or near his prime.

You got that right.

For some reason, I just can't picture Doom hurting himself jogging in practice, and then winding up deactivated for (basically) a playoff game for what a coach perceived as "indifference."