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Boobs McGee
12-30-2009, 05:11 PM
Didn't see any threads about it...but I was listening to 104.3 and heard Evans talking about how a perfectly healthy scheff WILL NOT be playing this weekend, and is currently on the scout team at practice?

Wtf is going on? anybody else heard this?

Popps
12-30-2009, 05:14 PM
http://themilehighsalute.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/peytonhillis.jpg


The phoenix will rise...

tsiguy96
12-30-2009, 05:15 PM
hes been whining about the system all year hasnt he

Boobs McGee
12-30-2009, 05:15 PM
hahah.

but seriously, if this thing has legs, I'm really curious as to what McD is thinking....

I've been a huge supporter of his all year, but this one has me puzzled.

Boobs McGee
12-30-2009, 05:16 PM
hes been whining about the system all year hasnt he

I dunno. Hadn't heard....

I know he was cutler's buddy, wonder if he (and hillis for that matter) have said some negative things about the team? Maybe josh put his foot down?

I seriously don't know, just throwing out speculation

bap454
12-30-2009, 05:35 PM
He was seen in town by Mcdaniels having lunch with Hillis... welcome to the dog house my friend.

elsid13
12-30-2009, 05:54 PM
hes been whining about the system all year hasnt he

No he hasn't. He hasn't said a word.

go_broncos
12-30-2009, 05:57 PM
Mcd resembles Eric Mangini..It seems like some players are having problems under him.
If this continues, Bowlen might intervene.

2KBack
12-30-2009, 05:57 PM
I personally think he doesn't add all that much to the team at this point. He is a terrible blocker, He doesn't know how to use his size advantage, won't fight for the ball, has dropped a TD and a major 3rd down reception last week. He's a big fast guy, and makes a nice catch now and then, which is cool. If he isn't with the program though, and he may not be considering his recent efforts, then maybe he deserves to be in the doghouse.

Lev Vyvanse
12-30-2009, 06:00 PM
Mcd resembles Eric Mangini..It seems like some players are having problems under him.
If this continues, Bowlen might intervene.

Lets hope so that is just what we need. It seems to work well for Al Davis.

go_broncos
12-30-2009, 06:01 PM
I personally think he doesn't add all that much to the team at this point. He is a terrible blocker, He doesn't know how to use his size advantage, won't fight for the ball, has dropped a TD and a major 3rd down reception last week. He's a big fast guy, and makes a nice catch now and then, which is cool. If he isn't with the program though, and he may not be considering his recent efforts, then maybe he deserves to be in the doghouse.

It is one game..Marshall also dropped some catches.
I agree that he is not a good blocker..But, he is a good passing TE.
We need to involve him more in all the games.

OBF1
12-30-2009, 06:05 PM
Does it really matter with this offense/system ???

31 catches, 416 yards and 2 TD's this season

go_broncos
12-30-2009, 06:06 PM
I personally think he doesn't add all that much to the team at this point. He is a terrible blocker, He doesn't know how to use his size advantage, won't fight for the ball, has dropped a TD and a major 3rd down reception last week. He's a big fast guy, and makes a nice catch now and then, which is cool. If he isn't with the program though, and he may not be considering his recent efforts, then maybe he deserves to be in the doghouse.

Let's blame everyone and not the QB that throws the ball.

go_broncos
12-30-2009, 06:10 PM
Does it really matter with this offense/system ???

31 catches, 416 yards and 2 TD's this season

Very sad indeed..If Mcd continues to sit or not involve good player's ..our future is bleak.

TonyR
12-30-2009, 06:13 PM
I personally think he doesn't add all that much to the team at this point. He is a terrible blocker, He doesn't know how to use his size advantage, won't fight for the ball, has dropped a TD and a major 3rd down reception last week. He's a big fast guy, and makes a nice catch now and then, which is cool. If he isn't with the program though, and he may not be considering his recent efforts, then maybe he deserves to be in the doghouse.

Other than his inability to stay healthy I've always liked him, but Brent Celek totally outclassed him in that game against the Eagles.

Ratboy
12-30-2009, 06:15 PM
/sigh

2KBack
12-30-2009, 06:15 PM
Does it really matter with this offense/system ???

31 catches, 416 yards and 2 TD's this season

that's not that far off his average season.

I don't hate the guy, I just don't think he is all that valuable

Ratboy
12-30-2009, 06:18 PM
I don't get how McDaniels cannot get Orton to spread the ball around. We did it last year with the same players, and we have added some players. (minus Cutler)

I am not sure what is happening, is it a process to open up the playbook? Does it take longer than a year?

broncocalijohn
12-30-2009, 06:26 PM
Maybe McD thought that Orton int should have been at least an incomplete pass if Sheffler gets in front of the CB. He had a huge size advantage and yet was on the outside near the sideline on that play. I could see how McD would be pissed but to be thrown on Scout team? Just make him the 4th running back. That seems to work this year.

Boobs McGee
12-30-2009, 06:43 PM
Let me start by saying I wasn't trying to start an anti mcdaniels thread.

As far as scheff's playing ability, whether or not he's been productive or not this year, I find this move odd for a couple reasons.

1. We're already down some receiving depth, and even though he's dropped some passes, we can use all the help we can get if the queefs stop our run game.

2. Quinn doesn't seem like he's anywhere NEAR being ready to take over that role yet ...from his limited playing time I don't remember anything memorable in terms of pass blocking OR catching, I could be wrong though.

broncolife
12-30-2009, 06:49 PM
So when is Grahams contract up? Im guessing he will want to leave since he left NE because he wasnt getting the ball enough. I would have loved to have seen his face when he heard we were hiring Mcdaniels. :)

bpc
12-30-2009, 06:52 PM
I don't get how McDaniels cannot get Orton to spread the ball around. We did it last year with the same players, and we have added some players. (minus Cutler)

I am not sure what is happening, is it a process to open up the playbook? Does it take longer than a year?

Can't read defenses? Scared to fit the ball in tight places? I think both apply.

I highly doubt Orton would have over 60% completion percentage if we didn't have so many screens in our playbook. I think it corresponds when his career completion average as well.

bpc
12-30-2009, 06:53 PM
So when is Grahams contract up? Im guessing he will want to leave since he left NE because he wasnt getting the ball enough. I would have loved to have seen his face when he heard we were hiring Mcdaniels. :)

I think we'll probably release him this offseason in a cost cutting measure.

TonyR
12-30-2009, 07:01 PM
Im guessing he will want to leave since he left NE because he wasnt getting the ball enough.

I think he left NE because Denver offered him considerably more money. They also had Ben Watson and couldn't pay both of them.

Popps
12-30-2009, 07:06 PM
Someone should bump the gardening thread just to see if BPC would invade it with Orton bashing.

HILife
12-30-2009, 07:07 PM
http://themilehighsalute.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/peytonhillis.jpg


The phoenix will rise...

Lol

broncolife
12-30-2009, 07:11 PM
I think he left NE because Denver offered him considerably more money. They also had Ben Watson and couldn't pay both of them.

Sure money had alot to do with it but he also wanted more Balls.
http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/graham.Broncos.passes.2.605825.html

Popps
12-30-2009, 07:11 PM
By the way, is there any written confirmation about Scheffler?

strafen
12-30-2009, 07:12 PM
Maybe McD thought that Orton int should have been at least an incomplete pass if Sheffler gets in front of the CB. He had a huge size advantage and yet was on the outside near the sideline on that play. I could see how McD would be pissed but to be thrown on Scout team? Just make him the 4th running back. That seems to work this year.

It looks like Scheffler is done here in Denver.
He's a "healthy" scratch for the KC game.
There are rumors circulating already that most of Shanahan's coaches still under McDaniels are going to be shown the door after this season. McDaniels wants to brings his own guys to him coach the Broncos.
This was according to 104.3 The Fan

We should look forward to yet another interesting off-season at Dove Valley...

WABronco
12-30-2009, 07:15 PM
^^well jeez no ****!!1!!

RhymesayersDU
12-30-2009, 07:18 PM
This is great news, we're obviously drafting Gerhart and converting him to TE.


Epic.

tsiguy96
12-30-2009, 07:18 PM
It looks like Scheffler is done here in Denver.
He's a "healthy" scratch for the KC game.
There are rumors circulating already that most of Shanahan's coaches still under McDaniels are going to be shown the door after this season. McDaniels wants to brings his own guys to him coach the Broncos.
This was according to 104.3 The Fan

We should look forward to yet another interesting off-season at Dove Valley...

new head coach = new assistant coaches. its not anything new at all, and i think we should, theres only a few assistants left (tuten, turner, dennison, some others i think) and if you want a new attitude, you need to get rid of the old. its one of teh reasons strength coaches get fired when head coaches get fired, because you need to make the impression that a new coach is in town and a new winning attitude.

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 07:23 PM
By the way, is there any written confirmation about Scheffler?

None that I've seen.

Hamrob
12-30-2009, 07:32 PM
Yeah, that's great. Let's make Dennison and Turner run a power game with ZBS players and then when our offensive line looks like crap and our rushing drops...let's get rid of those guys.

What ever floats McDaniels boat. Those guys would be asking for their releases anyway. Who do you think they would rather coach for...McDaniels or Shanahan. Who would most coaches rather coach for...for that matter.

BigPlayShay
12-30-2009, 07:34 PM
No he hasn't. He hasn't said a word.

http://www.fm1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?ID=1177294

watermock
12-30-2009, 07:38 PM
McD is thowing the ball to Graham anyway, altho he should leaving in Graham to block and scince Royal was injured and Stokely was throw out of the game for a finger tap, according to McD, it was the right move, even tho our line looks like crap after abandoning ZBS mid season.

Yeah, we even got 3 turnovers at the 50 sunday, 3 points.

Keep following this arrogant screamer.

RhymesayersDU
12-30-2009, 07:40 PM
McD is thowing the bell to Graham.

Don't even get me started on this. Yes let's throw a screen pass to the slowest skill player we have. (Clady not included!) Hate that play. I know Graham is big and powerful, but you need a speedy RB to run that screen.

elsid13
12-30-2009, 07:45 PM
http://www.fm1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?ID=1177294

I stand corrected. But it not that bad. Only thing that he says he wondering were will be next year, and the offense hasn't evolved and he wants to be more involved.

WABronco
12-30-2009, 07:56 PM
Yeah, that's great. Let's make Dennison and Turner run a power game with ZBS players and then when our offensive line looks like crap and our rushing drops...let's get rid of those guys.

What ever floats McDaniels boat. Those guys would be asking for their releases anyway. Who do you think they would rather coach for...McDaniels or Shanahan. Who would most coaches rather coach for...for that matter.

Lol YA DONT CHANGE A THING MCD OR YOU'RE A JOKE!

broncosteven
12-30-2009, 08:05 PM
Let me start by saying I wasn't trying to start an anti mcdaniels thread.

As far as scheff's playing ability, whether or not he's been productive or not this year, I find this move odd for a couple reasons.

1. We're already down some receiving depth, and even though he's dropped some passes, we can use all the help we can get if the queefs stop our run game.

2. Quinn doesn't seem like he's anywhere NEAR being ready to take over that role yet ...from his limited playing time I don't remember anything memorable in terms of pass blocking OR catching, I could be wrong though.

I am not trying to piss you off Bronconia, I like you.

It is just funny how McDaniels is not getting the same unconditional love that he was getting at the start of the year.

We had a huge turnover on D last year, looks like this offseason the O will be gutted.

go_broncos
12-30-2009, 08:12 PM
Both Todd Haley and Mcd are having lot of problems with the player's.
They are both inconsistent the way they treat player's.
For some player's, they are in doghouse once they had a bad game.
For others, they give them lot of chances.

elsid13
12-30-2009, 08:13 PM
I am not trying to piss you off Bronconia, I like you.

It is just funny how McDaniels is not getting the same unconditional love that he was getting at the start of the year.

We had a huge turnover on D last year, looks like this offseason the O will be gutted.

It sure looks that way.

Popps
12-30-2009, 08:37 PM
I am not trying to piss you off Bronconia, I like you.

It is just funny how McDaniels is not getting the same unconditional love that he was getting at the start of the year.

We had a huge turnover on D last year, looks like this offseason the O will be gutted.

Umm.... you been hanging out at a different forum? People were literally comparing him to Hitler at the beginning of the season.

As for an offensive gutting, I doubt it's that dramatic. But, we do have some pieces to replace, and any coach is going to bring in guys that work in their system.

I suppose no one remembers Mike Shanahan re-tooling the entire team when he came to town? But, McDaniels does it, and he's Hitler.

rastaman
12-30-2009, 08:47 PM
I dunno. Hadn't heard....

I know he was cutler's buddy, wonder if he (and hillis for that matter) have said some negative things about the team? Maybe josh put his foot down?

I seriously don't know, just throwing out speculation

Meh! It isn't etched in stone that every player is made or intended to play for McD and his new Offensive scheme. Sometimes its hard for players to adjust to a new coaches system and sometimes new coaches want to bring in they're own players. So both sides can see the writing on the wall.

Players today just have to be Geographically Mobile and flexible and be prepared to go where you are wanted and play in a system that best suits your talent and skills.;)

rastaman
12-30-2009, 09:04 PM
Yeah, that's great. Let's make Dennison and Turner run a power game with ZBS players and then when our offensive line looks like crap and our rushing drops...let's get rid of those guys.

What ever floats McDaniels boat. Those guys would be asking for their releases anyway. Who do you think they would rather coach for...McDaniels or Shanahan. Who would most coaches rather coach for...for that matter.

Yep! I can see McD calling in both Turner and Dennison (At the same time) in to his office to fire them! McD would probably give them send off with "Hey guys I gotta make a change....I tried to see if we could work together w/in my system, but its best I go with my own guys. I'm sure you guys will catch on with another team. Good luck in your future endeavors.

Then of course Turner and Dennison will be hired by Shanny along with Hillis and Scheffler where ever Shanny will be coaching in 2010.

Imagine Shanny going to Chicago, reuniting with Cutler and Cutler suddenly rejoins Hillis and Scheffler to go along with Hester, Forte, Olsen, Knox, and the FA WR that won the game against the Vikes. Suddenly the Bears offense is transformed overnight.

BigPlayShay
12-30-2009, 09:07 PM
When was the last time a ZBS / West Coast Offense won a championship? And I am not being a smartass, I am just curious. It would seem to me that it was 10 years ago with our Broncos.

Boobs McGee
12-30-2009, 09:12 PM
I am not trying to piss you off Bronconia, I like you.

It is just funny how McDaniels is not getting the same unconditional love that he was getting at the start of the year.

We had a huge turnover on D last year, looks like this offseason the O will be gutted.

haha no offense taken man!

It's just weird, looking back on all of the MAJOR decisions he's made thus far... this is the one I question. Obviously, in the grand scheme of football, I claim to know very little about the intracacies of the game (I'm learning, thanks to the folks on this site). That's why it's been tough for me to discern which decisions are most impactful to our beloved football team.

I've been extremely happy with the direction we've gone in so far since he's taken over, and have found myself in agreement with his controversial moves.

This is definitely a move I don't understand, and OBVIOUSLY, I don't have the private information that goes on behind closed doors at dove valley. I can only hope that someone with Josh's qualifications wouldn't blatantly dump players on our team just because of some personal disagreements, and THAT gives me some comfort here. There's a piece of the puzzle we aren't privied to, and for that reason I've been trying to stay positive through all of his radical changes. He seems like an incredibly intelligent football mind, so without seeing things through his eyes, I can't see the bigger picture that he's shooting for.

But ya, for ME, the unconditional love has definitely given way to some healthy skepticism ;D

I'm still stoked with the new direction we're headed, and have hope that his offensive accolades will prove themselves in the coming years.


DEFINITELY tough to see the players you've come to like heading off to the chopping block though...

bpc
12-30-2009, 09:13 PM
Someone should bump the gardening thread just to see if BPC would invade it with Orton bashing.

We're talking logical things. What has happened to Eddie Royal? We know for a fact that all the screen passes have bumped up Orton's completion percentage which was in the 50's for his career before this year.

That isn't bashing, it's being real with the situation.

I'm not surprised that you get offended at the slightest hint of actual football talk just because it doesn't reflect well on your agenda.

watermock
12-30-2009, 09:15 PM
When was the last time a Billichick desiple won shiat?

Boobs McGee
12-30-2009, 09:16 PM
Umm.... you been hanging out at a different forum? People were literally comparing him to Hitler at the beginning of the season. As for an offensive gutting, I doubt it's that dramatic. But, we do have some pieces to replace, and any coach is going to bring in guys that work in their system.

I suppose no one remembers Mike Shanahan re-tooling the entire team when he came to town? But, McDaniels does it, and he's Hitler.

I think he was referring more to me and my positivity for our new HC early in the year, more-so than the haters on here.

I'm actually excited for an offensive gutting (if it happens). We've been fairly stagnant, imo, and if it takes a few down years, so be it. I don't think that'll be the case, because I think McD is a different breed of coach, but we'll see.

Like I said, it's TOUGH sometimes, especially when it comes to a team that we all love and cherish. We just gotta have faith and enjoy the ride.

bpc
12-30-2009, 09:16 PM
I could see McDaniels move away from a lot of our players this year. Guys like Clady, Marshall, Royal could be on the block. I think there is a 50/50 chance that Kuper is let go. I think we'll see massive turnover at WR/TE/OL.

Unfortunately I doubt there will be much done in the way of QB or HB where most of our problems are originating.

NFLBRONCO
12-30-2009, 09:20 PM
I could see McDaniels move away from a lot of our players this year. Guys like Clady, Marshall, Royal could be on the block. I think there is a 50/50 chance that Kuper is let go. I think we'll see massive turnover at WR/TE/OL.

Unfortunately I doubt there will be much done in the way of QB or HB where most of our problems are originating.

I fully support McD but, if he moves Clady I'd think he was nuts. I can see BM Royal Schef as possible trades though not that I agree either just could see McD going it.

Popps
12-30-2009, 09:21 PM
I think he was referring more to me and my positivity for our new HC early in the year, more-so than the haters on here.

I'm actually excited for an offensive gutting (if it happens). We've been fairly stagnant, imo, and if it takes a few down years, so be it. I don't think that'll be the case, because I think McD is a different breed of coach, but we'll see.

Like I said, it's TOUGH sometimes, especially when it comes to a team that we all love and cherish. We just gotta have faith and enjoy the ride.

Agree. This thing wasn't going to happen overnight. I'm happy with the progress, and friggin' elated about the chances of improving this off-season.

Popps
12-30-2009, 09:22 PM
I doubt there will be much done in the way of QB or HB where most of our problems are originating.

That's because the problems are originating on the offensive line.

Hence, that will be addressed.

Boobs McGee
12-30-2009, 09:24 PM
Meh! It isn't etched in stone that every player is made or intended to play for McD and his new Offensive scheme. Sometimes its hard for players to adjust to a new coaches system and sometimes new coaches want to bring in they're own players. So both sides can see the writing on the wall.

Players today just have to be Geographically Mobile and flexible and be prepared to go where you are wanted and play in a system that best suits your talent and skills.;)

Hot damn that might be the smartest thing I've ever heard you say ;)

I totally agree, and this is the kind of view that's important to remember in times like these. For instance, I disagree with you COMPLETELY when it comes to Hillis (and might have been a little TOO vocal in my opposition), but when you look at it as more of a "he doesn't fit McD's system for whatever reason" kind of way, it makes it easier to swallow.

I've gotta do the same thing with Scheff. Obviously, for whatever reason, he doesn't fit the scheme, or McD doesn't want him, so I've gotta trust .

Hercules Rockefeller
12-30-2009, 09:24 PM
It looks like Scheffler is done here in Denver.
He's a "healthy" scratch for the KC game.
There are rumors circulating already that most of Shanahan's coaches still under McDaniels are going to be shown the door after this season. McDaniels wants to brings his own guys to him coach the Broncos.
This was according to 104.3 The Fan

We should look forward to yet another interesting off-season at Dove Valley...

Most? He retained all of 2 coaches from Shanahan's staff. So is most 1 of the 2? Whoever worded it "most" has no idea how many coaches were kept, or is attempting to make the morons who don't know how many coaches were kept, panic.

Not saying it'd be ok to lose either Turner or Dennison, but that's some ****ty reporting by The Fan, which isn't a surprise.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-30-2009, 09:26 PM
I could see McDaniels move away from a lot of our players this year. Guys like Clady, Marshall, Royal could be on the block. I think there is a 50/50 chance that Kuper is let go. I think we'll see massive turnover at WR/TE/OL.

Unfortunately I doubt there will be much done in the way of QB or HB where most of our problems are originating.

Of course you do, you have no basis for that, but you've convinced yourself that McD might trade a LT who is starting in the Pro Bowl in his 2nd year and a WR with 3-straight 100-catch seasons.

bpc
12-30-2009, 09:31 PM
Of course you do, you have no basis for that, but you've convinced yourself that McD might trade a LT who is starting in the Pro Bowl in his 2nd year and a WR with 3-straight 100-catch seasons.

He moved a QB who was in the pro bowl after just his 2nd full season in the league...

Besides, McD was close to moving Marshall to the Jets last offseason but the balked at the asking price.

I think McD could get what he wanted last offseason, this offseason. He could easily get 2 first rounders for Marshall right now after the season he had.

Who knows what he's thinking about Clady. I'm sure he's got something in his head and it's probably opposite of what most of us think. That tends to be the way he works.

Ray Finkle
12-30-2009, 09:32 PM
some people need to grasp reality....Scheffler is an asset but it wasn't like he was an all pro with Cutler at the helm either. Flashes of brilliance does not mean that he is a consistent player. Too many dropped catchable balls and being out jumped by smaller players.

McDaniels plays the players that make the team better....fanboy love does not matter....

Hillis will be out of the league in a few years and Scheffler may too. If you can get good draft picks for them, trade them......

Ray Finkle
12-30-2009, 09:33 PM
He moved a QB who was in the pro bowl after just his 2nd full season in the league...

Besides, McD was close to moving Marshall to the Jets last offseason but the balked at the asking price.

I think McD could get what he wanted last offseason, this offseason. He could easily get 2 first rounders for Marshall right now after the season he had.

Would that be a bad deal? The Jets deal would have been good if they agreed to it. 2 first in this draft for Marshall? I'd do it....

bpc
12-30-2009, 09:34 PM
Personally, i'm not sad about losing Scheffler, or Graham. Tony doesn't fit this offense and Daniel is overpriced with what McDaniels wants to use him for.

Those resources are better used elsewhere.

bpc
12-30-2009, 09:35 PM
Would that be a bad deal? The Jets deal would have been good if they agreed to it. 2 first in this draft for Marshall? I'd do it....

I wouldn't complain with it at the time. I think now Marshall is easily worth a first and a player. At the time I think we were looking for a 2nd and David Harris.

We'll see.

I don't think Marshall wants to be here. He'd rather be closer to FLA if I had to guess.

Ray Finkle
12-30-2009, 09:42 PM
I wouldn't complain with it at the time. I think now Marshall is easily worth a first and a player. At the time I think we were looking for a 2nd and David Harris.

We'll see.

I don't think Marshall wants to be here. He'd rather be closer to FLA if I had to guess.

Marshall wants $......I can see that ending his drive when he gets it.

Moon§hiner
12-30-2009, 09:42 PM
I'm sure Scheffler was just on the scout team because no on else can duplicate the awesome ability of the Chiefs wide receivers.

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 09:42 PM
Tony doesn't fit this offense

Really? He's a damn near carbon copy of Ben Watson, who just happened to be a pretty integral part of McD's offenses.

Seriously, where do you come up with such garbage takes? ???

elsid13
12-30-2009, 09:49 PM
Really? He's a damn near carbon copy of Ben Watson, who just happened to be a pretty integral part of McD's offenses.

Seriously, where do you come up with such garbage takes? ???

Actually he doesn't fit this offense. Scheffer is more of WCO TE receiver first~ controlling the middle of the field ~ and blocker second. In McDaniels system the TE is an extra linemen and occasional pass catcher. The middle of the field passes usually reserved for the backs.

ShutDownPoster
12-30-2009, 09:51 PM
Next year the NFL rules committe will make a special roster spot for Hillis.

edit: this post is a cheap excuse to show off my shiny new avatar

bpc
12-30-2009, 09:51 PM
Marshall wants $......I can see that ending his drive when he gets it.

Marshall has had a checkered past and his future pay-day has been keeping him in check.

I'm scared about giving him a mega-contract. Maybe it goes well, maybe he proves some of us right. It's a scary prognosis. If he blows his top and does something stupid, we'll probably have to cut him as nobody would touch him after that.

I'm not against moving him for the right deal. If we could get two first rounders to help our rebuilding... i would consider it.

He's a great player. I would hate to lose him but this franchise has mortgaged greater players before. Maybe they'll do it again.

If we do, i would love to target Golden Tate. I think the kid is going to be a Steve Smith clone in the NFL.

eddie mac
12-30-2009, 09:53 PM
Mcd resembles Eric Mangini..It seems like some players are having problems under him.
If this continues, Bowlen might intervene.

Like he intervened with the others you mean???

Oh sorry one's a Bear now and the other is playing for his $2.2m paycheck this year after constant bitching which resulted in a suspension then another 100 catch season. Pat is firmly behind his HC.

What players seem to be having problems with him???

You dont mean the likes of Hillis who isn't playing because he's ****ing crap and is not executing when he's on the field or even Scheffler who pussies out of hits and drops balls like Cutler throws picks???

I'd love to know which players you're referring to.

Ayers who was benched then came back and started to show something???

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 09:54 PM
Actually he doesn't fit this offense. Scheffer is more of WCO TE receiver first~ controlling the middle of the field ~ and blocker second. In McDaniels system the TE is an extra linemen and occasional pass catcher. The middle of the field passes usually reserved for the backs.

You're joking, right? ::)

I'll say it again. Scheffler is basically a carbon copy of Ben Watson, who was an integral piece of McDaniel's offenses.

bpc
12-30-2009, 09:55 PM
Really? He's a damn near carbon copy of Ben Watson, who just happened to be a pretty integral part of McD's offenses.

Seriously, where do you come up with such garbage takes? ???

I don't even compare the two. I think Watson is a much better blocker and athlete vs. Scheffler. Tony's game is primarily receiving based which is why McD tried to move him last offseason. He doesn't fit the role of a blocker.

That works for some teams, but not in McD's offense.

But we'll all believe you, because you're a copper, and you'll tell us so... and that's supposed to move us in some way.

ha.

Broncos dude
12-30-2009, 09:55 PM
Mcd resembles Eric Mangini..It seems like some players are having problems under him.
If this continues, Bowlen might intervene.

Oh good god... Hilarious!

go_broncos
12-30-2009, 09:57 PM
Like he intervened with the others you mean???

Oh sorry one's a Bear now and the other is playing for his $2.2m paycheck this year after constant b****ing which resulted in a suspension then another 100 catch season. Pat is firmly behind his HC.

What players seem to be having problems with him???

You dont mean the likes of Hillis who isn't playing because he's ****ing crap and is not executing when he's on the field or even Scheffler who pussies out of hits and drops balls like Cutler throws picks???

I'd love to know which players you're referring to.

Ayers who was benched then came back and started to show something???

I am referring to Marshall(initially), Hillis and Scheffler as of now.
These are all player's which we cannot lose.
I am sure Royal is unhappy also.

I am happy when Mcd traded Cutler. Orton is much better QB than Cutler.
But, I don't understand some of his decissions(Hillis not starting, cutting Kern,
conservative playcalling, now benching Scheffler).

bpc
12-30-2009, 09:58 PM
I don't think Hillis is crap. Maybe he's not the sharpest tool in the shed but coaches have to find out how to make the most of a players talent. Look at Sean Payton. Mike Bell was left for dead and the guy has made him look like a stud at times this year.

Spare everyone dogging on certain players. Hillis looked great in limited time last year, like he could be a difference maker in the run and pass games. He's not McD's cup of tea. Doesn't mean you got piss on him and tear him a new one for no reason.

Hopefully McD gets his wish and Peyton is off the roster. That free's him up to continue his career elsewhere where somebody will take advantage of his talents. Simple as that.

elsid13
12-30-2009, 10:00 PM
You're joking, right? ::)

I'll say it again. Scheffler is basically a carbon copy of Ben Watson, who was an integral piece of McDaniel's offenses.

I am not. Watson was so much a part of the offense game plan he was about to get cut this year. McDaniels looks for a guy like Graham that why he drafted Quinn, blocker first and maybe pass catcher once in awhile.

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 10:00 PM
Here are Watson's stats from the time McD was the OC in New England.

2005 (9 starts): 29 / 441 / 15.2 / 4

2006 (13 starts): 49 / 643 / 13.1 / 3

2007 (8 starts): 36 / 389 / 10.8 / 6

2008 (14 starts): 22 / 209 / 9.5 / 2

watermock
12-30-2009, 10:01 PM
Personally, i'm not sad about losing Scheffler, or Graham. Tony doesn't fit this offense and Daniel is overpriced with what McDaniels wants to use him for.

Those resources are better used elsewhere.

Wow, let's promote Quinn!

bpc
12-30-2009, 10:01 PM
McD should be given three years. Until then, we won't actually know what he can do.

eddie mac
12-30-2009, 10:01 PM
Yeah, that's great. Let's make Dennison and Turner run a power game with ZBS players and then when our offensive line looks like crap and our rushing drops...let's get rid of those guys.

What ever floats McDaniels boat. Those guys would be asking for their releases anyway. Who do you think they would rather coach for...McDaniels or Shanahan. Who would most coaches rather coach for...for that matter.

You mean good ones like Nolan, Nunnelly, Martindale and Donatel. 4 coaches who turned a pile of **** into something half decent.

There's been plenty of ****ing "Great resume" coaches come through these doors under Shanahan in the past especially on the defensive side and they've all collected their millions of $$$, done **** then ****ed off after a year.

See the thing is our owner wised up to that and did something about it. Now I cant wait to see Mike go into Washington get them a decent offense and tear that half decent defense into a pile of **** within 1-2 seasons.

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 10:03 PM
I think Watson is a much better blocker and athlete vs. Scheffler. He's not, and he isn't/

Tony's game is primarily receiving based So is Watson's.

which is why McD tried to move him last offseason. McDaniels never tried to trade Scheffler. ::)

He doesn't fit the role of a blocker. He uses Graham in that role, just like he did in New England.

That works for some teams, but not in McD's offense. We saw it work every year McD was calling the plays there.

bpc
12-30-2009, 10:03 PM
Wow, let's promote Quinn!

I think that's exactly the plan. NE has always invested heavily in the TE position and doesn't believe in paying the going FA rate.

Can't say I blame them even though I'm a graham fan. He's just not going to earn his contract at the current rate he's used.

eddie mac
12-30-2009, 10:04 PM
I don't think Hillis is crap. Maybe he's not the sharpest tool in the shed but coaches have to find out how to make the most of a players talent. Look at Sean Payton. Mike Bell was left for dead and the guy has made him look like a stud at times this year.

Spare everyone dogging on certain players. Hillis looked great in limited time last year, like he could be a difference maker in the run and pass games. He's not McD's cup of tea. Doesn't mean you got piss on him and tear him a new one for no reason.

Hopefully McD gets his wish and Peyton is off the roster. That free's him up to continue his career elsewhere where somebody will take advantage of his talents. Simple as that.

Ahem didn't Shanahan cut Mike???

Dont tell me you're trying to blame that on McD as well bpc.LOL

watermock
12-30-2009, 10:05 PM
Thing look real great for next year, just ask Poops.

bpc
12-30-2009, 10:06 PM
He's not, and he isn't/

So is Watson's.

McDaniels never tried to trade Scheffler. ::)

He uses Graham in that role, just like he did in New England.

We saw it work every year McD was calling the plays there.

A lot of time is wasted trying to break down things for you. I'm not going to waste my time. You believe, what you believe.

Scheffler isn't a blocker. He never was. If so, don't you think he would have been a starter a long time again for Shanny?

Keep reaching though.

eddie mac
12-30-2009, 10:07 PM
Even if this is true, could it even be possible that Scheffler did something either on the field or off it that forced McD's hand???

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 10:08 PM
I am not. Watson was so much a part of the offense game plan he was about to get cut this year. He wasn't "about to get cut". He had to fight for his spot in camp after a pretty poor showing in 2008 and he's had a very good season.

Also, in case you're not aware of this, McDaniels has been with us the whole time that episode went down.

McDaniels looks for a guy like Graham that why he drafted Quinn, blocker first and maybe pass catcher once in awhile. Really? McD utilized both Graham and Watson in New England.

Seriously, some of you people need to go back and watch the McD lead Patriots. Your conclusions about his offense are really off base.

bpc
12-30-2009, 10:09 PM
Ahem didn't Shanahan cut Mike???

Dont tell me you're trying to blame that on McD as well bpc.LOL

Shanny didn't cut Bell because he wasn't talented. He cut him because he has a poor attitude towards trying to play fullback.

I don't think Hillis has a poor attitude about that. McD just doesn't like something about his game. So be it. My point was one person's "trash" is another person's treasure. I look forward to seeing what Hillis can do when given the chance.

elsid13
12-30-2009, 10:09 PM
He's not, and he isn't/

So is Watson's.

McDaniels never tried to trade Scheffler. ::)

He uses Graham in that role, just like he did in New England.

We saw it work every year McD was calling the plays there.

Go listen to the interview in this thread. Scheffler flatly state that he and his agent know that trade was attempted but the teams couldn't come to agreement.

McDaniels wants his type of players for his system. Scheffer doesn't fit the role he has in mind for TE.

Requiem
12-30-2009, 10:10 PM
I could give two ****s less if Scheffler isn't on this team.

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 10:11 PM
A lot of time is wasted trying to break down things for you. I'm not going to waste my time. You believe, what you believe. I hate to tell you Chris, but it's not me, it's you.

Scheffler isn't a blocker. He never was. If so, don't you think he would have been a starter a long time again for Shanny? No ****, Sherlock. I've never entertained the notion that Scheffler is a blocker, so I don't know what ****ing planet you're on.

Keep reaching though. Keep crying about Cutler and Shanny getting booted the **** out of here.

elsid13
12-30-2009, 10:11 PM
He wasn't "about to get cut". He had to fight for his spot in camp after a pretty poor showing in 2008 and he's had a very good season.

Also, in case you're not aware of this, McDaniels has been with us the whole time that episode went down.

Really? McD utilized both Graham and Watson in New England.

Seriously, some of you people need to go back and watch the McD lead Patriots. Your conclusions about his offense are really off base.

I have watched the NE Patriots, I understand that offense. I don't understand why you are unwilling to believe the fact the Scheffler doesn't fit McDaniels idea of TE for his system. Hell go search for Med's post on the TE and Quinn selection.

eddie mac
12-30-2009, 10:12 PM
BTW why the **** should the guy who's paid to coach this team and get results use the former HC's playbook just because some of the players still on the roster know it or are more suited to it???

This is a multi-million dollar occupation for these guys so suit up, buck up, get learning and get it done or you'll be on another roster or serving fries in McDonald's.

This is not a 12 month plan. I'm pretty sure when Pat handed the reigns over to McDaniels they had a plan set out for most likely the length of his contract to make this McDaniels' team, with his players who know his system and have sweated their balls off learning it.

There were some major bumps along the way and there still will be but that's what bringing a new HC in is all about.

Only dickhead owners dont give their new guys time to get the job done.

I also dont get the gurning over certain players on this team who aren't getting a look in. Sure Hillis did well and I liked what he brought to the table last year, but if he's not getting it done this season for whatever reason then that's fair game. The HC picks the 45-46 every Sunday not the fans and as bpc has said if he doesn't get the opportunities here, he'll obviously get a shot elsewhere either via trade or release. Be warned though Peyton, as an ex-Shanahanesque Bronco, the NFL hasn't been too forthcoming to your kind in the past. You could count on one hand ex-Shanahan players who've actually furthered their careers on other teams.

bpc
12-30-2009, 10:15 PM
I hate to tell you Chris, but it's not me, it's you.

No ****, Sherlock. I've never entertained the notion that Scheffler is a blocker, so I don't know what ****ing planet you're on.

Keep crying about Cutler and Shanny getting booted the **** out of here.

More than one person is speaking out saying you sound like a buffoon. Is that an echo, or do you just not know what you're talking about?

Maybe you should go watch some film instead of making assumptions.

Hmmmmmm....

rastaman
12-30-2009, 10:17 PM
some people need to grasp reality....Scheffler is an asset but it wasn't like he was an all pro with Cutler at the helm either. Flashes of brilliance does not mean that he is a consistent player. Too many dropped catchable balls and being out jumped by smaller players.

McDaniels plays the players that make the team better....fanboy love does not matter....

Hillis will be out of the league in a few years and Scheffler may too. If you can get good draft picks for them, trade them......

Hillis and Scheff both have bright futures they just need to hook on with a teams that can use their skill sets. Hopefully whichever team Shanny decides to coach that he signs both Hillis and Scheffler.

Popps
12-30-2009, 10:18 PM
Thing look real great for next year, just ask Poops.

Well, for Broncos fans it does.

For you, who knows.

eddie mac
12-30-2009, 10:20 PM
Hillis and Scheff both have bright futures they just need to hook on with a teams that can use their skill sets. Hopefully whichever team Shanny decides to coach that he signs both Hillis and Scheffler.

It's a shame they cant sign fans.

rastaman
12-30-2009, 10:26 PM
Next year the NFL rules committe will make a special roster spot for Hillis

I understand the HOF committee already has a life like Bust of Josh McDaniel's. Funny how things turn out in life.

Requiem
12-30-2009, 10:27 PM
Stop fighting guys, it is the holidays. And don't call Popps Poops -- that is mean.

eddie mac
12-30-2009, 10:28 PM
Stop fighting guys, it is the holidays. And don't call Popps Poops -- that is mean.

More to the point Req, how are you keeping???

Requiem
12-30-2009, 10:30 PM
More to the point Req, how are you keeping???

I stopped keeping books when Lord Shanahan was fired. Starting doing drugs hardcore, and have begun cutting my wrists. I now wear all black, including lipstick, and enjoy fishnet leggings. I haven't gotten laid in about 5 months.

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 10:31 PM
Go listen to the interview in this thread. Scheffler flatly state that he and his agent know that trade was attempted but the teams couldn't come to agreement. Cutler and his agent also tried to tell us he was shopped despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Even Scheffler wasn't quite as definitive as you make it sound.

I suppose it is possible that something might have happened that we don't know about, but with all the people in Denver we likely would have heard something besides the baseless speculation we got during the offseason. You also have to consider the fact that Scheffler was admittedly unhappy with Cutler leaving, so any potential trades more than likely would have come from that situation rather than Scheffler not fitting the offense.

I have watched the NE Patriots, I understand that offense. I don't understand why you are unwilling to believe the fact the Scheffler doesn't fit McDaniels idea of TE for his system. Because there is irrefutable proof to the contrary. We watched McDaniels rely fairly heavily on a player with basically the exact same skill set as Tony when he was in New England.

That's like saying Scheffler didn't fit Shanny's offense after we watched Shannon Sharpe excel here.

Hell go search for Med's post on the TE and Quinn selection. Funny, I don't see anything in here really supporting your position. I do see him talking about NE using 3 tight ends (Watson, Graham and Thomas when they were all together under McD) and needing Quinn because outside of Graham none of the current tight ends were redzone blockers or dual threats, which Watson is neither as well.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/search.php?searchid=369883

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 10:35 PM
More than one person is speaking out saying you sound like a buffoon. Is that an echo, or do you just not know what you're talking about?

Maybe you should go watch some film instead of making assumptions.

Hmmmmmm....

Is that the game you want to play Chris? I can start digging out posts where excellent posters like Herc (hell, that happened in this thread) Kaylore, Drek, Popps Eddie Mac, Med and others have all called out your crap takes.

Seriously, if you want to play dumbass games like that, I'll be happy to join in. Just rest assured that after your offseason meltdown the quality of posters calling you out vs the ones calling me out is heavily slanted in my favor.

eddie mac
12-30-2009, 10:37 PM
I stopped keeping books when Lord Shanahan was fired. Starting doing drugs hardcore, and have begun cutting my wrists. I now wear all black, including lipstick, and enjoy fishnet leggings. I haven't gotten laid in about 5 months.

LOL

I was referring more to your physical health than mental.

Popps
12-30-2009, 10:38 PM
Is that the game we want to Chris? I can start digging out posts where excellent posters like Herc (hell, that happened in this thread) Kaylore, Drek, Popps Eddie Mac, Med and others have all called out your crap takes.

Seriously, if you want to play dumbass games like that, I'll be happy to join in. Just rest assured that after your offseason meltdown the quality of posters calling you out vs the ones calling me out is heavily slanted in my favor.

Chris lives out on an island with Rasta, Bob and Lex. (When lex isn't banned for attacking kids.)

Oh, and Mock.

A clear thinking person might look at the company and perhaps reevaluate their positions.

Requiem
12-30-2009, 10:43 PM
LOL

I was referring more to your physical health than mental.

As of August, I was certified fully in remission from my Nephrologist regarding my kidney disease. I am doing my best to watch my diet and intake of all things into my body. I'm keeping a positive mind and am moving forward. I honestly, have never felt better. Going through what I did was a real eye-opener. I just thought I was getting fat as **** being a college kid. As things went on, I learned that what was going on with me had probably been onsetting for several years. I'm getting into some of the best shape of my life, and feel pretty darn good.

I pray on my lucky stars I do not relapse, but 80% of people who have what I did do, but I've been blessed my whole life so I hope I can be in that 20%. Either way, I'm doing fine. My immune system is still shotty after being on immuno-suppresive drugs for about 9 months, but it'll get back up there. Winter up here is a Hell of a time for me because I always seem to get a cold. Either way, alles gut. Set to graduate with my two degrees in May and take on the world.

Not sure where I want to go, but who knows.

Thank you for asking, and I know this is off-topic, but thanks to all those who have asked or inquired over the past year. It has meant a lot to have the kind words and support.

Back to the football stuff! :peace:

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 10:43 PM
Chris lives out on an island with Rasta, Bob and Lex. (When lex isn't banned for attacking kids.)

Oh, and Mock.

A clear thinking person might look at the company and perhaps reevaluate their positions.

You would think so. Apparently not.

Requiem
12-30-2009, 10:44 PM
I thought Mock lived out on a delightful farm in Iowa with his cat Beezer. ;)

bpc
12-30-2009, 10:45 PM
Chris lives out on an island with Rasta, Bob and Lex. (When lex isn't banned for attacking kids.)

Oh, and Mock.

A clear thinking person might look at the company and perhaps reevaluate their positions.

I don't live out on the island anymore. I'm living in the same degenerate wasteland you are my friend. I'm just closer to where the decision making goes down... ;)

rastaman
12-30-2009, 10:54 PM
I could give two ****s less if Scheffler isn't on this team.

I like Schefflers up side and think he has a bright future. He needs to find a team that has a pass first offense and a QB with an NFL Arm.

If I were him, I'd be in contact with Shanny as soon as the season over to see if Shanny is interested in him, that is if Shanny is returning to the NFL next season. Same goes for Hillis as well. After all Shanny already knows the talents of Hillis and Scheffler. And coaches want the players they are familiar with and comfortable with as well.

In other words a McD's castoff could become of value for another NFL HC.

Florida_Bronco
12-30-2009, 10:59 PM
I like Schefflers up side and think he has a bright future.

Me too. I'm a huge fan of Scheffler's and I think if he sticks around he will have some very good years here.

BigPlayShay
12-30-2009, 11:06 PM
By the way, this is all coming from this dude: http://twitter.com/BKDenverSports

He works for FM1043 The Fan. He also had this supposed bombshell during Training Camp:

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/8/17/992907/regarding-the-broncos-bombshell

Brandon Krisztal of KKFN was just on with D-Mac, and he said that he's hearing one of 2 things. A) Brandon Marshall may be bringing a lawsuit concerning his injury. OR B) The Broncos are in talks with none other than Brett Favre

Neither of which happened, so who knows how reliable this dude is.

bpc
12-30-2009, 11:07 PM
Scheffler has a lot of talent in the passing game... not much in the blocking game. I don't think he has a great career, but he could be very much like a Desmond Clark in this next location.

Look for him in some Shanny related destination. Tennessee, Houston, or even Indy would love to have a guy like this.

watermock
12-30-2009, 11:17 PM
Oh sorry, better get advice from Rusty.

Dagmar
12-30-2009, 11:25 PM
Oh sorry, better get advice from Rusty.

I haven't even posted here!

Am I on your mind sweet thang? :-*

Dagmar
12-30-2009, 11:26 PM
You said you wouldn't reveal our love until my 10,000th post. Spoilsport...

watermock
12-30-2009, 11:32 PM
Tapeworm.

azbroncfan
12-30-2009, 11:39 PM
Hell go search for Med's post on the TE and Quinn selection.

I thought I was the only one who thought that.

Dagmar
12-30-2009, 11:39 PM
Tapeworm.

I can do this...


Astronomist!

SoCalBronco
12-31-2009, 12:35 AM
I like Tony alot. He's my second favorite player on the team behind DJ and my third favorite player in the NFL as a whole (behind DJ and Jay). It's too bad he doesn't fit into the offensive scheme. He does have alot of talent. I hope he gets paid by someone and is very successful with his new team. I will definitely miss Tony. :(

I guess all we can do is just hope that Quinn eventually develops into the type of TE that Josh prefers. So far Quinn has done more or less nothing but he's still a rookie. We'll see what happens, I suppose.

Popps
12-31-2009, 12:42 AM
I like Tony alot. He's my second favorite player on the team behind DJ and my third favorite player in the NFL as a whole (behind DJ and Jay). .

That has to be the saddest group of top 3 players I've ever heard of.

All I can do is send my best wishes, and go wash my eyeballs after reading that post.

Popps
12-31-2009, 12:43 AM
Tony dropped a ball right in his gut in the endzone on Sunday. Someone did get a hand on it, but he's got to position himself to make that catch. It couldn't have been thrown any better. I have no idea if that's part of this, or if any of this is even true. Still haven't read this anywhere.

go_broncos
12-31-2009, 12:50 AM
Tony dropped a ball right in his gut in the endzone on Sunday. Someone did get a hand on it, but he's got to position himself to make that catch. It couldn't have been thrown any better. I have no idea if that's part of this, or if any of this is even true. Still haven't read this anywhere.

It looks like no one drop balls in NFL..Uhh

SoCalBronco
12-31-2009, 12:51 AM
That has to be the saddest group of top 3 players I've ever heard of.

All I can do is send my best wishes, and go wash my eyeballs after reading that post.

Not really. I very much enjoy watching each of them play. It's hardly sad. Those are my boys.

Actually, you would probably throw up at this so I probably shouldn't say it...but "55688" is a something I've used as a password before for various things ;D

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/82946842.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F1A54CE2C4AF7C23779CFDD375ED06A4 B01E70F2B3269972

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss28/MidwayIllustrated/JayCutler.jpg

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0262/2242/13109_feature.jpg

Studs! :strong:

strafen
12-31-2009, 12:55 AM
Tony dropped a ball right in his gut in the endzone on Sunday. Someone did get a hand on it, but he's got to position himself to make that catch. It couldn't have been thrown any better. I have no idea if that's part of this, or if any of this is even true. Still haven't read this anywhere.

Wow!!! LOL

Yeah, Popps. Let's throw yet another proven performer of our offense under the bus for the love of our coach that can do no wrong!

mhgaffney
12-31-2009, 01:08 AM
If we lose /trade Sheffler after this year -- it will be a cardinal sign that the Broncs are going nowhere...

sad...so sad...

strafen
12-31-2009, 01:17 AM
If we lose /trade Sheffler after this year -- it will be a cardinal sign that the Broncs are going nowhere...

sad...so sad...

McDaniels is dismantling this team.
Look for McDaniels to have another draft with picks that would defy logic, and boggles the minds.
The only thing as a fan is to take the wait and see approach and let him do things his way, and then we'll take another look mid-way thru the 2011 season to see where we are.
I don't expect next year to be any different if Mcdaniels is still set on winning now, rather than build a team to start producing in two years or so.
In the meantime, he could find himself screwed big time if he mortgages our future in veteran players whose prime may have been gone in 2 years from now...
We've got one of the youngest and most dynamic offenses in the NFL, and it has slowly started to fall by the weigh side

go_broncos
12-31-2009, 01:27 AM
I hope Mcd knows what he is doing..
You don't trade playmaker's like Hillis and Scheffler.
If given a chance, he will trade marshall also.

Popps
12-31-2009, 01:31 AM
I hope Mcd knows what he is doing..
You don't trade playmaker's like Hillis and Scheffler.
If given a chance, he will trade marshall also.

BS.

He actually showed a good deal of commitment to Marshall through the whole circus. There's absolutely no basis to that statement.

And don't compare Marshall to a marginal TE and a 2nd string fullback.

go_broncos
12-31-2009, 01:37 AM
BS.

He actually showed a good deal of commitment to Marshall through the whole circus. There's absolutely no basis to that statement.

And don't compare Marshall to a marginal TE and a 2nd string fullback.

Marginal TE?..Yes sir..for you everyone is marginal except the FA's and player's drafted by Mcd.

strafen
12-31-2009, 01:39 AM
Marginal TE?..Yes sir..for you everyone is marginal except the FA's and player's drafted by Mcd.The guy is a tool, man.
His football acumen leaves a lot to be desired.
His got a cinder block for a brain inside his head.
McDaniels can do no wrong.

Archer81
12-31-2009, 01:41 AM
Marginal TE?..Yes sir..for you everyone is marginal except the FA's and player's drafted by Mcd.


Marginal is a stretch, but not the downtrodden all-pro he is portrayed as in some threads.


:Broncos:

Florida_Bronco
12-31-2009, 01:43 AM
Marginal is a stretch, but not the downtrodden all-pro he is portrayed as in some threads.


:Broncos:

I agree.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 08:05 AM
Tony dropped a ball right in his gut in the endzone on Sunday. Someone did get a hand on it, but he's got to position himself to make that catch. It couldn't have been thrown any better. I have no idea if that's part of this, or if any of this is even true. Still haven't read this anywhere.

Meh! Care to critique the multitude of inaccurate passes thrown to all of our WR's by Kyle Orton over the entire season.

Funny how you expect every player to play with perfection w/o MISTAKE! while you make up every excuse imaginable for how Orton stinks the joint up.

You are truly pathetic and a complete Owner/HC hoe azz Cheerleader. You have definitely proven yourself to be the type of fan players have and will continue to loathe and hate.

Have a nice day....SKANK.

Ray Finkle
12-31-2009, 08:20 AM
Is that the game you want to play Chris? I can start digging out posts where excellent posters like Herc (hell, that happened in this thread) Kaylore, Drek, Popps Eddie Mac, Med and others have all called out your crap takes.

Seriously, if you want to play dumbass games like that, I'll be happy to join in. Just rest assured that after your offseason meltdown the quality of posters calling you out vs the ones calling me out is heavily slanted in my favor.

if it make you both feel better, I think you are both A-holes :D

Ray Finkle
12-31-2009, 08:22 AM
Not really. I very much enjoy watching each of them play. It's hardly sad. Those are my boys.

Actually, you would probably throw up at this so I probably shouldn't say it...but "55688" is a something I've used as a password before for various things ;D

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/82946842.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F1A54CE2C4AF7C23779CFDD375ED06A4 B01E70F2B3269972

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss28/MidwayIllustrated/JayCutler.jpg

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0262/2242/13109_feature.jpg

Studs! :strong:

so, can I borrow your ATM card?

elsid13
12-31-2009, 08:24 AM
so, can I borrow your ATM card?

Forget the ATM. OMAN Login Socal Password 55688. MOD POWERS!!!!

Ray Finkle
12-31-2009, 08:26 AM
Forget the ATM. OMAN Login Socal Password 55688. MOD POWERS!!!!

we can finally ban Broncofan7 and lex...rasta, you're next.

elsid13
12-31-2009, 08:31 AM
we can finally ban Broncofan7 and lex...rasta, you're next.

To slow Ray. The account is mine, and I plan a Hotrod style rampage of abuse around here.

TonyR
12-31-2009, 08:32 AM
McDaniels is dismantling this team...


I sure hope he doesn't "dismantle" the offense the way he did the defense...

Rabb
12-31-2009, 08:34 AM
I sure hope he doesn't "dismantle" the offense the way he did the defense...

rep

TonyR
12-31-2009, 08:34 AM
If we lose /trade Sheffler after this year -- it will be a cardinal sign that the Broncs are going nowhere...

sad...so sad...

What's sad is that you actually think Tony Scheffler is the linchpin for the Broncos to go somewhere.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-31-2009, 08:38 AM
It looks like no one drop balls in NFL..Uhh

That's not the point.

If Tony is going to bitch about not being used like he wants to in this offense, then he needs to make plays when given the chance. It's the same with Hillis.

That's not a "McDaniels can do no wrong" argument, it's called making a play when given the opportunity and maybe you'll see the ball more.

TonyR
12-31-2009, 08:41 AM
If Tony is going to b**** about not being used like he wants to in this offense, then he needs to make plays when given the chance.

Didn't Scheffler also have a ball hit him in the hands, on a short pattern over the middle, that popped up in the air and was almost picked off? Or was that Marshall or someone else?

Rabb
12-31-2009, 08:47 AM
Didn't Scheffler also have a ball hit him in the hands, on a short pattern over the middle, that popped up in the air and was almost picked off? Or was that Marshall or someone else?

that was Scheff

I love the guy, and want him to stay because he is a fantastic weapon but the love for him is a little much

the play you mentioned is what sets him apart from guys like Clark, they don't miss opportunities

of course we will always have the crowd blaming Orton for his lack of production since that deep seam route never misses :wiggle:

rastaman
12-31-2009, 09:01 AM
That's not the point.

If Tony is going to b**** about not being used like he wants to in this offense, then he needs to make plays when given the chance. It's the same with Hillis.

That's not a "McDaniels can do no wrong" argument, it's called making a play when given the opportunity and maybe you'll see the ball more.

Orton hasn't made or make the plays when he's given the opportunties ALL SEASON long yet he sees the freakin ball all the time and plays like crap! Hell Orton was even handded to starting job w/o competition this season; and more than likely the same will happen in 2010.

Every player that doesn't start must be perfect in McD's system. While players like Moreno and Orton can screw up and they still start week after week.

Must be golden to be McD's favorite or pet.;)

Ray Finkle
12-31-2009, 09:20 AM
pure bliss.....

This message is hidden because rastaman is on your ignore list.

MplsBronco
12-31-2009, 09:22 AM
Yep! I can see McD calling in both Turner and Dennison (At the same time) in to his office to fire them! McD would probably give them send off with "Hey guys I gotta make a change....I tried to see if we could work together w/in my system, but its best I go with my own guys. I'm sure you guys will catch on with another team. Good luck in your future endeavors.

Then of course Turner and Dennison will be hired by Shanny along with Hillis and Scheffler where ever Shanny will be coaching in 2010.

Imagine Shanny going to Chicago, reuniting with Cutler and Cutler suddenly rejoins Hillis and Scheffler to go along with Hester, Forte, Olsen, Knox, and the FA WR that won the game against the Vikes. Suddenly the Bears offense is transformed overnight.

Was this your wet dream?

Hercules Rockefeller
12-31-2009, 09:26 AM
Orton hasn't made or make the plays when he's given the opportunties ALL SEASON long yet he sees the freakin ball all the time and plays like crap! Hell Orton was even handded to starting job w/o competition this season; and more than likely the same will happen in 2010.

Every player that doesn't start must be perfect in McD's system. While players like Moreno and Orton can screw up and they still start week after week.

Must be golden to be McD's favorite or pet.;)

Yeah, because QBs and TEs are the on the same plane.

"Yet he sees the ball"? WTF does that even mean for a QB? He's still taking snaps?

By your logic, Cutler should have been benched sometime in mid-October with his mistakes, but I'm sure that you would never imply such a thing about the Boy Wonder.

MplsBronco
12-31-2009, 09:32 AM
Tony dropped a ball right in his gut in the endzone on Sunday. Someone did get a hand on it, but he's got to position himself to make that catch. It couldn't have been thrown any better. I have no idea if that's part of this, or if any of this is even true. Still haven't read this anywhere.

I thought the ball was a little late but yeah, he needs use his body there to shield the defender. He plays like a soft WR not a TE. Then on the INT thrown his way he just ran down the sideline with his arms out as if the defender didn't exist. Made no attempt to go up and fight off a smaller guy for the ball. He then got lit up which he should have for the lousy effort.

The guy hasn't done anything special and as someone noted Celek outclassed him by a mile that last game.

azbroncfan
12-31-2009, 09:36 AM
Orton hasn't made or make the plays when he's given the opportunties ALL SEASON long yet he sees the freakin ball all the time and plays like crap! Hell Orton was even handded to starting job w/o competition this season; and more than likely the same will happen in 2010.

Every player that doesn't start must be perfect in McD's system. While players like Moreno and Orton can screw up and they still start week after week.

Must be golden to be McD's favorite or pet.;)

You don't even watch the games. Obviously you didn't see the New England or Dallas game. Orton made plays in the San Diego game too. I don't think Orton is that great but he gets more production out of his game than your gay love Cutler.

underrated29
12-31-2009, 10:27 AM
scheffler will be a good fit in balt. They need more receiving options and Heap as good as he is is getting Old and will probably be leading a different life real soon.

A 2nd from balt--eh, probably not, but we could probably squeek out a 3rd from them.




Sucks because I like shceff, but jmfmd uses te for blocking then receiving. Not the other way around.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 11:27 AM
pure bliss.....

This message is hidden because rastaman is on your ignore list.

Ray-Ray is on ignore as well.:giggle:

Tombstone RJ
12-31-2009, 11:35 AM
Was this your wet dream?

Hilarious!

Ambiguous
12-31-2009, 11:36 AM
Orton hasn't made or make the plays when he's given the opportunties ALL SEASON long yet he sees the freakin ball all the time and plays like crap! Hell Orton was even handded to starting job w/o competition this season; and more than likely the same will happen in 2010.

Every player that doesn't start must be perfect in McD's system. While players like Moreno and Orton can screw up and they still start week after week.

Must be golden to be McD's favorite or pet.;)

You have to be the biggest retard I've seen on any message board, ever.

What alternatives do we have to Orton? SIMMS?!!! Are you effing kidding me?!

Did you see Simms play? We would be 0-16 if he started this season. But Orton was "handed the job".

Cito Pelon
12-31-2009, 11:41 AM
When was the last time a ZBS / West Coast Offense won a championship? And I am not being a smartass, I am just curious. It would seem to me that it was 10 years ago with our Broncos.

Good point.

strafen
12-31-2009, 11:48 AM
I sure hope he doesn't "dismantle" the offense the way he did the defense...McDaniels can do no wrong, can him?
This defense didn't get good this year because of Mcdaniels players, this defense got good because Nolan's new system and philosophy.

Yes we got rid of some bad players, but to give McDaniels credit for the turn-around of our defense other than having brought Nolan in is just being a McDaniels' ass-sucker. Offense is what he was supposed to be good at, and he stunk there, and you're going to give him credit for the defense?
:strong:

We didn't get anybody from the draft that is playing defense right now.
We did get some FA players that by the time this team is ready these same players will be over the hill
You don't build an NFL team with a "win now mentality"

We will give your coach 2 years to see what he's got.
I say 2 years though it may take longer for a 33 year old rookie head coach in the NFL with ZERO experience building teams in the NFL to figure it out once his ego start getting out of his way...

He still needs to go thru some growing pains, and he still needs to cut the umbilical cord still attached from Belicheck.

Beantown Bronco
12-31-2009, 11:49 AM
You have to be the biggest retard I've seen on any message board, ever.


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rastaman
12-31-2009, 11:49 AM
You don't even watch the games. Obviously you didn't see the New England or Dallas game. Orton made plays in the San Diego game too. I don't think Orton is that great but he gets more production out of his game than your gay love Cutler.

AZ the point is.....you guys take shots at our Wr's for not making the catch i.e but you seem to ignore the fact Orton isn't exactly perfect either! and his passes have been inaccurate to the point of not only must our WR's make circus/miraculous catches but they must also breakup interceptions as well! See what I'm saying.

All this is due because Orton doesn't have an NFL arm and is inaccurate. Scheffler is 6-6! How does Orton manage to throw the ball low enough to allow a CB thats 5-10 to intercept the ball. Why didn't Orton get the ball up high enough to take advantage of Schefflers 6-6 height?

I'll tell you why 1) Kyle threw another one of his inaccurate throws, and 2) Orton doesn't have an NFL Arm. Yet somehow despite these obvious shortcomings with Orton, he never gets blamed or nothing is ever his fault! All we hear are excuses and blamming going toward the Def., the OL, the WR's, etc., Utterly Freaking Amazing.

Thanks for lowering the bar of expectations for Orton while protecting or shielding him from well deserved/overdue criticism. No wonder Orton hasn't been in the dog house all season with the infrastructure of protection and benefit of the doubt he gets from Homer fans and the HC.

Once again, certain players must be perfect every time and some players get countless of chances to continue not to get the job done. It is What-It-Is.

Beantown Bronco
12-31-2009, 11:52 AM
Guys, please take note. Only Broncos WRs have to break up potential INTs and have to make difficult catches that don't always hit them in stride. This never happens on teams led by the Mannings and Bradys of the world.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 11:55 AM
I sure hope he doesn't "dismantle" the offense the way he did the defense...

I'm just glad McD wasn't allowed to call Defensive plays and left it to Nolan. B/c McD has struggled with his play calling for the offense.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 12:01 PM
Guys, please take note. Only Broncos WRs have to break up potential INTs and have to make difficult catches that don't always hit them in stride. This never happens on teams led by the Mannings and Bradys of the world.

Guys please take note that its totally ludicrious to compare Orton or mention his name in the same company of Mannings and Brady's of the world's.

By the way Bean we've played 15 games thus far and seldom has Orton hit our Wr's in FULL STRIDE.

Beantown Bronco
12-31-2009, 12:10 PM
Guys please take note that its totally ludicrious to compare Orton or mention his name in the same company of Mannings and Brady's of the world's.

It would help if you even understood the difference between a comparison and simply listing examples. Sadly, you can't.

By the way Bean we've played 15 games thus far and seldom has Orton hit our Wr's in FULL STRIDE.

False. Unless you can prove it...........perhaps by finally getting around to providing me that list of timestamps of all those terribly inaccurate passes that you promised me.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 12:10 PM
Was this your wet dream?

No not at all. Just and observation and opinion. Can't have great talent going to waste.

Remember, one HC's castoffs could beome another HC's great pickup!

Popps
12-31-2009, 12:12 PM
Guys please take note that its totally ludicrious to compare Orton or mention his name in the same company of Mannings and Brady's of the world's.

By the way Bean we've played 15 games thus far and seldom has Orton hit our Wr's in FULL STRIDE.

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rastaman
12-31-2009, 12:12 PM
False. Unless you can prove it...........perhaps by finally getting around to providing me that list of timestamps of all those terribly inaccurate passes that you promised me.

I never promised you Jack-Shiiat! What hell are you talking about you LIAR!:sunshine:

Beantown Bronco
12-31-2009, 12:17 PM
I never promised you Jack-Shiiat! What hell are you talking about you LIAR!:sunshine:

Ahhh, it was your alter-ego jhns:

Again, which game do you want me to break down for you? I will back up every one of my claims. Tell me a game you are able to rewatch and I will give you exact times. I have all of them. You will have to wait some hours for me to get home but I have no problem rewatching some games for you.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 12:27 PM
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Thanks for proving my argument! Orton has seldom completed passes where he has hit his WR's in full STRIDE!

The vast majority of Orton's passes are short routes of 5-15yds which consist of YAC. Then when he's required to complete deep throws which requires leading his receivers.....he can't do it! Therefore, Kyles limitation with not being able to hit his receivers in stide and accurately sets the team up for disappointment and loses to good and great teams.

TonyR
12-31-2009, 12:40 PM
This defense didn't get good this year because of Mcdaniels players, this defense got good because Nolan's new system and philosophy.

Yes we got rid of some bad players, but to give McDaniels credit for the turn-around of our defense other than having brought Nolan in is just being a McDaniels' ass-sucker. Offense is what he was supposed to be good at, and he stunk there, and you're going to give him credit for the defense?

We didn't get anybody from the draft that is playing defense right now.
We did get some FA players that by the time this team is ready these same players will be over the hill
You don't build an NFL team with a "win now mentality"

We will give your coach 2 years to see what he's got.


Wow, that's some serious pent up frustration.

As for the credit for the defense, you don't think McD had any say on Nolan being hired, the FA players signed, or the defensive game plans?

As for defensive players in the draft, Ayers, Bruton, McBath, and Smith have all contributed to varying degrees.

And unfortunately for you "we" have no say on how long McD gets. That will be Mr. Bowlen's call, just as firing Mike Shanahan was.

strafen
12-31-2009, 12:47 PM
Wow, that's some serious pent up frustration.

As for the credit for the defense, you don't think McD had any say on Nolan being hired, the FA players signed, or the defensive game plans?

As for defensive players in the draft, Ayers, Bruton, McBath, and Smith have all contributed to varying degrees.

And unfortunately for you "we" have no say on how long McD gets. That will be Mr. Bowlen's call, just as firing Mike Shanahan was.You need to look at the whole picture, and if you're going to give McD' credit for the defense based on his hiring of Nolan, I'm good with that, but even that was a crapshoot at best.
Nobody here expected this defense to be at the level we're right now, not based on the players we've got anyway.

What we need to look at is how long with the current personnel (aging players) could this defense hold?
You build a team for the future, you don't build a team to be a one-year wonder.
The offense which is McDaniels' forte is way behind our defense in terms of progression both playing under new systems...

WolfpackGuy
12-31-2009, 01:02 PM
He probably has a caved in chest from Harris lighting him up due to the fact Orton was late AND short on that intercepted pass Sunday.

Whatever, it's going to be tough to see Scheff and Hillis tearing it up for another team after this season.

Bronco Yoda
12-31-2009, 01:02 PM
As much as I like Schef, I have to concede that he doese not fit in McD's plan. From a fans perspective anyway.

Beantown Bronco
12-31-2009, 01:03 PM
whatever, it's going to be tough to see scheff and hillis tearing it up for another team after this season.

cfl?

azbroncfan
12-31-2009, 01:07 PM
Thanks for proving my argument! Orton has seldom completed passes where he has hit his WR's in full STRIDE!

The vast majority of Orton's passes are short routes of 5-15yds which consist of YAC. Then when he's required to complete deep throws which requires leading his receivers.....he can't do it! Therefore, Kyles limitation with not being able to hit his receivers in stide and accurately sets the team up for disappointment and loses to good and great teams.

Everything you said there could be used for your boy Cutler. Even with his arm strength he can't throw deep to save his ass. I know the game winner last week was a nice throw but he missed 5 or so earlier in the game. BTW there was one throw on that highlight and it was a perfectly timed, thrown comeback route.

azbroncfan
12-31-2009, 01:12 PM
When was the last time a ZBS / West Coast Offense won a championship? And I am not being a smartass, I am just curious. It would seem to me that it was 10 years ago with our Broncos.

Tampa Bay, Colts run zoneblocking running game.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 01:13 PM
cfl?

Yeah you wish....Playa-Hate-Ta!:sunshine:

Remember Bean, one HC's castoff(s) can become another HC's valuable pickup.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 01:23 PM
Everything you said there could be used for your boy Cutler. Even with his arm strength he can't throw deep to save his ass. I know the game winner last week was a nice throw but he missed 5 or so earlier in the game. BTW there was one throw on that highlight and it was a perfectly timed, thrown comeback route.

Did you say "Comeback Route"! That sounds to me like the receiver had to stop and comeback for the ball! Doesn't sound like the WR was hit in stride by the QB.

Could the designed "Comeback Route" be the results that the HC realizes his QB doesn't have an NFL arm or doesn't trust his QB period to make the throw let alone the inaccuracy issues/risk?

Speaking of arm strength in the NFL, no one is advocating a QB must have howitzer of an arm, but you need to have an NFL arm to play at this level. Sadly Orton either doesn't have the arm strength now or he has never spent the off season trying to strengthen his arm. After all, how does a QB thats 6-5 does not have arm strength....its a bit odd thats for sure.

BigPlayShay
12-31-2009, 01:25 PM
Tampa Bay, Colts run zoneblocking running game.

So 20% of the past 10 Superbowl winners.

Beantown Bronco
12-31-2009, 01:25 PM
Did you say "Comeback Route"! That sounds to me like the receiver had to stop and comeback for the ball! Doesn't sound like the WR was hit in stride by the QB.

Could the designed "Comeback Route" be the results that the HC realizes his QB doesn't have an NFL arm or doesn't trust his QB period to make the throw let alone the inaccuracy issues/risk?


A new level of un-realness is being reached now.

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azbroncfan
12-31-2009, 01:27 PM
Did you say "Comeback Route"! That sounds to me like the receiver had to stop and comeback for the ball! Doesn't sound like the WR was hit in stride by the QB.

Could the designed "Comeback Route" be the results that the HC realizes his QB doesn't have an NFL arm or doesn't trust his QB period to make the throw let alone the inaccuracy issues/risk?

Speaking of arm strength in the NFL, no one is advocating a QB must have howitzer of an arm, but you need to have an NFL arm to play at this level. Sadly Orton either doesn't have the arm strength now or he has never spent the off season trying to strengthen his arm. After all, how does a QB thats 6-5 does not have arm strength....its a bit odd thats for sure.

Your a f*&King moron. It is obvious to me your a fantasy football player and never played organized football.

Rabb
12-31-2009, 02:16 PM
You need to look at the whole picture, and if you're going to give McD' credit for the defense based on his hiring of Nolan, I'm good with that, but even that was a crapshoot at best.
Nobody here expected this defense to be at the level we're right now, not based on the players we've got anyway.

What we need to look at is how long with the current personnel (aging players) could this defense hold?
You build a team for the future, you don't build a team to be a one-year wonder.
The offense which is McDaniels' forte is way behind our defense in terms of progression both playing under new systems...

ever think that this is by design, to get the young guys a couple of years of solid veteran leadership?

strafen
12-31-2009, 02:33 PM
ever think that this is by design, to get the young guys a couple of years of solid veteran leadership?If I was one of those McDaniels' supporters that think the guy can do no wrong, I may have looked at it that way.
The fact is, I support McDaniels but I'm not willing to give him a pass on mistakes he's made this season.
That being said, yes, it could be looked at it as something done by design, but the facts point out to just wanting to win now mentality, and not necessarily looking too far ahead.

I would tend to think differently if Brutton was there playing side-by-side with Hawkins, or any other rookies we drafted or signed UDFA's
I don't see a mix of youth and veterans on the field.

I only see Ayers and Moreno getting more playing time than any other rookies, and that's because they were obviously the two top picks McDaniels wants to showcase to make a case for himself that he didn't make a mistake with those two players while he could've had some other better players available he could've had

Rabb
12-31-2009, 03:11 PM
If I was one of those McDaniels' supporters that think the guy can do no wrong, I may have looked at it that way.
The fact is, I support McDaniels but I'm not willing to give him a pass on mistakes he's made this season.
That being said, yes, it could be looked at it as something done by design, but the facts point out to just wanting to win now mentality, and not necessarily looking too far ahead.

I would tend to think differently if Brutton was there playing side-by-side with Hawkins, or any other rookies we drafted or signed UDFA's
I don't see a mix of youth and veterans on the field.

I only see Ayers and Moreno getting more playing time than any other rookies, and that's because they were obviously the two top picks McDaniels wants to showcase to make a case for himself that he didn't make a mistake with those two players while he could've had some other better players available he could've had

then you aren't watching because it's there

sometimes on special teams and sometimes in other game situations and probably most of all in the locker, training, film rooms and practice fields

anyone that has ever actually played the game understands that what you see on the field on game day is a pretty small part of the actual process

your focus on "McDaniels supporters" is making you stupid about football in general apparently

lazarus4444
12-31-2009, 03:41 PM
I'm a McDaniels supporter but not a blind one. I do give him a lot of room to work with though. I think by his play calling we will be building a slightly different team than last year.

I mean, there is only so much you can do in one off-season. I think he's going to go bigger o-line and a power run game. We also need a deep threat at WR because honestly we don't have one now and perhaps that has hurt the deep passing game?

AS FOR scheff, who knows what the deal is but we don't have all the information to process. He had a horrible game and maybe that was because his practice the week before was bad? Maybe he has a ****ty attitude? Who knows.

cartel
12-31-2009, 03:43 PM
this thread is funny. scheffler is a notch above putzier. he is soft as hell, goes down way too easily, and can't block worth a damn. i cringe when he pulls on a run play and crumbles when he gets stuck. he's got pretty good hands but if we can trade him for a 3rd for depth on the lines, so be it.

Hogan11
12-31-2009, 03:46 PM
this thread is funny. scheffler is a notch above putzier.

No he's not, he's on par with him and will be missed about as much.

strafen
12-31-2009, 04:02 PM
Another player thrown under the bus by unappreciating fans...
Unbelievable!!!
No, is not McDaniels stinky offense system, it's got to be the players.

Throw each player under the bus whenever Mcdaniels chooses to give up on a good player, so that the Mcdaniels fanatics will come out in full force to support their rookie head coach's poor decisions as he continues to dismantle this team offensively...

Oh, and be ready to throw BMarsh under the bus, McDaniels will be choosing between giving the money at the end of the year to Marshall, Doom and Orton.
Guess who his favorite player is?
Hint: is a QB!
Look for Mrshall to go elsewhere if he doesn't get the money he wants.
I'm sure he will be yet another player thrown under the bus...
Stay tune...

cartel
12-31-2009, 04:17 PM
that's right, i will throw him under the bus because he's the same soft player as he always has been. by the way, i'll throw the entire team under the bus if they are not winning or playing well. not everyone on the broncos are all world, most are average but the delusional fans think they are better than most because of the uniform.

Mr.Meanie
12-31-2009, 04:33 PM
your focus on "McDaniels supporters" is making you stupid about football in general apparently

I think you have the cause and the effect backwards here. :)

elsid13
12-31-2009, 04:53 PM
So 20% of the past 10 Superbowl winners.

So do the giants.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 08:15 PM
Your a f*&King moron. It is obvious to me your a fantasy football player and never played organized football.

Calm down AZ. I know deep down you also realize Orton can't throw deep (accurately) nor can he seldom hit his receivers in full stride.

Lets see how many receivers Orton hits in full stride against KC on Sunday. Perhaps he can build for next season.

BroncoBuff
12-31-2009, 08:26 PM
A year ago, Royal Hillis and Scheffler were solid cornerstones of the offense of the future ... hard to believe all three are at best bit players now. You can understand Hillis losing time, with Moreno and Buckhalter here. But Scheff and Royal getting few if any touches, that's weird.

rastaman
12-31-2009, 08:27 PM
A new level of un-realness is being reached now.

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Does your veto mention why Orton can't hit his receivers in FULL STRIDE! If it doesnt.....then your the RETARD.ROFL!

Take Care Dumb Billy.:sunshine:

BroncoBuff
12-31-2009, 08:29 PM
Someone should bump the gardening thread just to see if BPC would invade it with Orton bashing.

Soembody should disagree with you just to see if you'd scream insults at them.

Requiem
12-31-2009, 08:33 PM
Popps, lets smoke a joint.

BroncoBuff
12-31-2009, 08:58 PM
But Scheff and Royal getting few if any touches, that's weird.

This preseason, with Marshall misbehaving and Royal a stud in camp, I wouldda laid even money Royal would make the Pro Bowl. Oops.

Florida_Bronco
12-31-2009, 09:24 PM
A year ago, Royal Hillis and Scheffler were solid cornerstones of the offense of the future ... hard to believe all three are at best bit players now. You can understand Hillis losing time, with Moreno and Buckhalter here. But Scheff and Royal getting few if any touches, that's weird.

Tony has 9 less catches and 1 less touchdown than last year, and we still have a game left to go.

BroncoBuff
12-31-2009, 09:41 PM
Tony has 9 less catches and 1 less touchdown than last year, and we still have a game left to go.
Your numbers are right, but you forgot he missed a handful of games last year ... his numbers in just 13 last year were better across the board than in 15 this year. But I mostly added him in with Royal and Hillis here based on the thread title.

And there is something to it ... couple weeks ago, can't remember which game, but even the TV play-by-play guy kept asking "why aren't they using Scheffler?"

Josh has the right to use and not use whomever he likes, but Hillis Royal and Scheffler? All marginalized and on their way out? Doesn't seem like a judicious utilization of resources to me.

When Jabar Gaffney has more catches than a healthy Eddie Royal, something has gone wrong ... ???

Florida_Bronco
12-31-2009, 09:49 PM
Who says Hillis and Scheffler have been marginalized, much less on their way out? Hillis has been one **** up after another this year and he's still around while Scheffler has seen very little drop in production while being a part of a radical offensive scheme change.

Gaffney has more catches because he played in this offense in New England and is simply more likely to be where he needs to be. Royal will come around in time.

BroncoBuff
12-31-2009, 09:51 PM
Who says Hillis and Scheffler have been marginalized, much less on their way out? Hillis has been one **** up after another this year and he's still around while Scheffler has seen very little drop in production while being a part of a radical offensive scheme change.

Gaffney has more catches because he played in this offense in New England and is simply more likely to be where he needs to be. Royal will come around in time.

I'll predict right now: 2 of the 3 will be gone next season.

prodigalson139
12-31-2009, 09:57 PM
this thread is funny. scheffler is a notch above putzier. he is soft as hell, goes down way too easily, and can't block worth a damn. i cringe when he pulls on a run play and crumbles when he gets stuck. he's got pretty good hands but if we can trade him for a 3rd for depth on the lines, so be it.

This. Maybe two notches...

Florida_Bronco
12-31-2009, 10:03 PM
I'll predict right now: 2 of the 3 will be gone next season.

Who? Royal? He's not going anywhere unless we get a good trade out of him.

Hillis? Well, don't the door hit ya in the ass on the way out Peyton.

Scheffler? He's still ours for another year or two with the CBA about to expire, so he's only leaving town if McD wants to ship him out.

~Crash~
12-31-2009, 10:26 PM
I think we'll probably release him this offseason in a cost cutting measure.

yep I agree there is a reason we drafted that TE in the 2nd round

MaloCS
12-31-2009, 11:13 PM
Guys please take note that its totally ludicrious to compare Orton or mention his name in the same company of Mannings and Brady's of the world's.

No it's not. If the Mannings and Bradys are the bench mark then Orton should absolutely be compared to them.

mhgaffney
12-31-2009, 11:42 PM
A year ago, Royal Hillis and Scheffler were solid cornerstones of the offense of the future ... hard to believe all three are at best bit players now. You can understand Hillis losing time, with Moreno and Buckhalter here. But Scheff and Royal getting few if any touches, that's weird.

All of these guys have great hands. We saw what they can do last year.

But this year we have a QB who can't lead a receiver. Forget those over the shoulder passes. Hillis and Sheffler's production dropped accordingly.

Royal has great hands but he's a small target for Orton -- who needs a BIG target like Marshall to make him look good.

So Royal's former production also dropped.

So what's the answer? Trade these three potent offensive weapons? Or get a QB who can deliver the ball?

If McD takes the first path -- then Bowlen ought to kick his ass straight outa town.

watermock
01-01-2010, 04:22 AM
Who? Royal? He's not going anywhere unless we get a good trade out of him.

Hillis? Well, don't the door hit ya in the ass on the way out Peyton.

Scheffler? He's still ours for another year or two with the CBA about to expire, so he's only leaving town if McD wants to ship him out.


You make Xanders look like "Einstein.

Considering how we made the 09 draft look like the trade for Ricky Williams, STFU.

Beantown Bronco
01-01-2010, 08:54 AM
Does your veto mention why Orton can't hit his receivers in FULL STRIDE! If it doesnt.....then your the RETARD.ROFL!

Take Care Dumb Billy.:sunshine:

Veto? When did I become the President?

"Your the retard" :spit: Dude, if you are going to call someone a retard, at least try to get the spelling right.

~Crash~
01-01-2010, 09:07 AM
All of these guys have great hands. We saw what they can do last year.

But this year we have a QB who can't lead a receiver. Forget those over the shoulder passes. Hillis and Sheffler's production dropped accordingly.

Royal has great hands but he's a small target for Orton -- who needs a BIG target like Marshall to make him look good.

So Royal's former production also dropped.

So what's the answer? Trade these three potent offensive weapons? Or get a QB who can deliver the ball?

If McD takes the first path -- then Bowlen ought to kick his ass straight outa town.

post of the year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!:strong::strong::strong:

lostknight
01-01-2010, 10:01 AM
Look, the bottom line is that the offense this year is clearly (not even close) inferior to the offense last year. The Defense this year is clearly awesome compared to the defense the last couple of years. I put the onus for both on the people who call plays on each side - the offense playcaller and the defensive play caller.

It's been clear since McDaniels got rid of Bates that the offense was his baby. It's also been clear with how this team has played all year that McDaniels has no interest in ZBS, go routes, or receiving tight ends. McDaniels has simply not been able to get the same production out of the pieces Mike Shanahan was able to get. If that's the players (as the McDanielites claim), or the QB (as some McDanielites and some critics claim), the bottom line still is that McDaniels has failed all season to create a cohesive offensive system.

For as many good decisions that were made, there are a lot of decisions that still look extremely shakey - Ayers finally played a complete game last week, but otherwise has not executed. Alphonso Smith is a embarrassment, Simms has been unable to produce at any level - and realistically cost us this season, Richard Quinn has made no impact whatsoever. The decision to get rid of Bates, which led to Cutler leaving looks extremely poor given how bad the offense has performed. The decision to get rid of the Goodman's looks even worse given how poorly the drafting class looks at the moment.

So yes, McDaniel's gets to claim the 6-0 start, but he also has to claim everything since.

WolfpackGuy
01-01-2010, 10:20 AM
Yeah, Richard Quinn will fill Scheffler's spot handily.

Don't hurt yourselves laughing.

skpac1001
01-01-2010, 10:22 AM
Yeah, Richard Quinn will fill Scheffler's spot handily.

Don't hurt yourselves laughing.

I think he will fit on the bench as well as Scheffler did.

Cito Pelon
01-01-2010, 10:55 AM
Tampa Bay, Colts run zoneblocking running game.

Neither are/were ZBS.

azbroncfan
01-01-2010, 11:32 AM
Neither are/were ZBS.

Bull****, Colts are zone blocking and the original post was West Coast/zone blocking teams. TB ran west coast and a lot of zone blocking. It is kind of a stupid statement too because all teams run some form of west coast and zone blocking from time to time.

azbroncfan
01-01-2010, 11:33 AM
Royal has great hands but he's a small target for Orton -- who needs a BIG target like Marshall to make him look good.

So Royal's former production also dropped.
.

Royal is struggling because he struggled at picking up the offense at first and has struggled to get open.

elsid13
01-01-2010, 11:43 AM
Royal is struggling because he struggled at picking up the offense at first and has struggled to get open.

I kinda disagree. Royal has taken over role Gaffney played in the NE offense. His number are par with what the #2 SE/Flanker played there. While most of us thought he would be the slot like Welker, that not his role on this team. Most of the time, Royal is the 3rd or 4th option in this scheme.

Option 1 Marshall
Option 2 - Slot (or second TE in Ace set)
Option 3 - running back
Option 4 - Second outside WR
Option 5 - TE

rastaman
01-01-2010, 12:34 PM
No it's not. If the Mannings and Bradys are the bench mark then Orton should absolutely be compared to them.

Yep I agree, its a bench mark Orton will never achieve!!

Bronco Warrior
01-01-2010, 12:35 PM
All of these guys have great hands. We saw what they can do last year.

But this year we have a QB who can't lead a receiver. Forget those over the shoulder passes. Hillis and Sheffler's production dropped accordingly.

Royal has great hands but he's a small target for Orton -- who needs a BIG target like Marshall to make him look good.

So Royal's former production also dropped.

So what's the answer? Trade these three potent offensive weapons? Or get a QB who can deliver the ball?

If McD takes the first path -- then Bowlen ought to kick his ass straight outa town.

All I can say is "Well said!"

rastaman
01-01-2010, 12:41 PM
Royal is struggling because he struggled at picking up the offense at first and has struggled to get open.

I partially agree. Lets also consider the number of times Orton threw him multitudes of inaccurate passes & consider the number of times Royal was open and Orton just failed to deliver the ball to him on time.

The best thing that can happen to both Royal and Orton is if this offseason they get on the same page timing wise and execution wise; so in 2010 they are like a machine.

rastaman
01-01-2010, 12:47 PM
Veto? When did I become the President?

"Your the retard" :spit: Dude, if you are going to call someone a retard, at least try to get the spelling right.

Your are one dumb-azz high maintenance Idiot. My argument all along has been about Orton's INABILITY TO HIT HIS RECEIVERS IN STRIDE!

You are the one that added a video that did not prove whether Orton has the ability to hit his RECEIVERS IN FULL STRIDE!

You will never become President moron.....but you have proven you are capable and display all the tool of becoming the Village Idiot RETARD on the OM.

take care Chuckle Nuts.:sunshine:

Hamrob
01-01-2010, 01:48 PM
Yeah, Richard Quinn will fill Scheffler's spot handily.

Don't hurt yourselves laughing.The truth is...we really don't know. Has Quinn even caught a ball this year?

Popps
01-01-2010, 01:58 PM
Scheffler has been an up and down player his entire career. I'm surprised to see him inactive, but it's a new era in Denver.

Jogging through the last game of the season like DJ Williams did last year isn't going to be tolerated.

Will a stricter approach work? Who knows, but clearly, the hands-off approach didn't do a damned thing for us over the past several years.

WolfpackGuy
01-01-2010, 02:03 PM
The truth is...we really don't know. Has Quinn even caught a ball this year?

Ha, has he even ran a route?

He can block fake punts though. This I know.

go_broncos
01-01-2010, 02:28 PM
As Clayton said, we are looking like an expansion team

barryr
01-01-2010, 02:42 PM
Wow, there are players on this team who are seriously overvalued around here, but the rest of the NFL wouldn't be jumping over themselves to get. Scheffler has yet to be a consistent player on this team and probably never will.

I would worry more if players that are known to have solid character and were solid players having problems with McDaniels, but judging to this point, that hasn't happened. Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, Scheffler, and Hamilton all either have character issues or performance issues.

Some need to take their I hate McDaniels curtains down and see some reality for a change.

Popps
01-01-2010, 02:45 PM
Look, the bottom line is that the offense this year is clearly (not even close) inferior to the offense last year. l's gets to claim the 6-0 start, but he also has to claim everything since.

Absolutely incorrect. There is no factual data to support that, and plenty to contradict it.

3 ppg difference

Fewer turnovers this year

Better TOP


So, you can repeat that all you'd like, but it won't magically make it truth... because it isn't.

strafen
01-01-2010, 02:50 PM
Absolutely incorrect. There is no factual data to support that, and plenty to contradict it.

3 ppg difference

Fewer turnovers this year

Better TOP


So, you can repeat that all you'd like, but it won't magically make it truth... because it isn't.

Yardage from last year indicates vastly superior offense.
8 games last year where the offense had over 400 yards of total offense or better compared to only 2 this year, indicates a vastly superior offense, retard!

Also, 11 turnovers in the red zone last year also affected our scoring, so your 3 points you point out as insignificant, is actually a strong indicator of what the 2008 offense was in terms of being superior than this year.

Popps
01-01-2010, 02:50 PM
Wow, there are players on this team who are seriously overvalued around here, but the rest of the NFL wouldn't be jumping over themselves to get. .

Even funnier, we're supposed to believe Sheffler is a Hall of Famer, but a productive guy like Gaffney is a piece of dog****.


Scheffler is what he is.... a dude who looks great at times, has a lot of talent, but never seems to put it all together.

He's no Jason Whitten.

I have no idea why he's not playing Sunday, but maybe dropping an easy TD in the endzone was the last straw.

Dagmar
01-01-2010, 02:59 PM
You make Xanders look like "Einstein.

Considering how we made the 09 draft look like the trade for Ricky Williams, STFU.

Old retard alert.

Dagmar
01-01-2010, 02:59 PM
Even funnier, we're supposed to believe Sheffler is a Hall of Famer, but a productive guy like Gaffney is a piece of dog****.


Scheffler is what he is.... a dude who looks great at times, has a lot of talent, but never seems to put it all together.

He's no Jason Whitten.

I have no idea why he's not playing Sunday, but maybe dropping an easy TD in the endzone was the last straw.

Shanny drafted Scheffler. McDaniels signed Gaffney. That's why there is hate.

barryr
01-01-2010, 03:02 PM
Even funnier, we're supposed to believe Sheffler is a Hall of Famer, but a productive guy like Gaffney is a piece of dog****.


Scheffler is what he is.... a dude who looks great at times, has a lot of talent, but never seems to put it all together.

He's no Jason Whitten.

I have no idea why he's not playing Sunday, but maybe dropping an easy TD in the endzone was the last straw.

Scheffler's drops didn't even start this year either. It's amazing how some clammor for players like Scheffler and Hillis to play more despite the mistakes they constantly make. Gee, maybe that's why they don't play as much, but their fans think they should play anyway. Yeah, the team would just start playing so much better if those 2 idiots got more playing time. My living room temp. is higher than those 2 combined IQ's.

Beantown Bronco
01-01-2010, 03:05 PM
Your are one dumb-azz high maintenance Idiot. My argument all along has been about Orton's INABILITY TO HIT HIS RECEIVERS IN STRIDE!

And you still can't prove it. I've seen him do it plenty.

You are the one that added a video that did not prove whether Orton has the ability to hit his RECEIVERS IN FULL STRIDE!


I did no such thing. Damn. You can't even get that right.

sixtimeseight
01-01-2010, 03:11 PM
Old retard alert.

careful, insulting the mod's pet will get you infraction points, i learned this the hard way.

Rulon Velvet Jones
01-01-2010, 04:12 PM
Scheffler is a marginal TE. Why so much love for the guy?

skpac1001
01-01-2010, 04:22 PM
Yardage from last year indicates vastly superior offense.
8 games last year where the offense had over 400 yards of total offense or better compared to only 2 this year, indicates a vastly superior offense, retard!

Also, 11 turnovers in the red zone last year also affected our scoring, so your 3 points you point out as insignificant, is actually a strong indicator of what the 2008 offense was in terms of being superior than this year.

Well yardage doesn't really prove anything. We were second in yardage. We were also second in pass attempts. Since passes average more then runs you should be ranked around the same in yardage and pass attempts. All that means is we chose to, or had to pass a lot. Usually you have to pass a lot because your d sucks or you turn it over a lot and have to score more to catch up. Both were true for us. But unlike the other top yardage offenses, we did not convert increased passing into increased scoring, just into increased turnovers.

Broncos4tw
01-01-2010, 04:24 PM
Right.. I'm sure it's not the QB. Sheff and Royal suck.

Even though both had better stats last year. Shef had twice as many yards last year. But naw.. couldn't be because of bubble-screen king. Royal has a fraction of last years #'s. But na.. gotta be because he just isn't TRYING hard enough.

I think they should probably sit the entire WR corps. Clearly they all have attitude problems, can't block, can't catch.. hell, they shouldn't even be in the NFL.

On another note, I'm baffled by Orton wasn't selected to this years ProBowl.

go_broncos
01-01-2010, 04:24 PM
Scheffler is a marginal TE. Why so much love for the guy?

Because he is one of the better player's in our offense right now.

You will not see these type of threads if Jordon or Quinn is on the scout team.

lostknight
01-01-2010, 05:01 PM
Absolutely incorrect. There is no factual data to support that, and plenty to contradict it.


Yardage - which is the way that everyone in the world except for you is vastly different. Do we still have red zone issues? Yes, but guess what, we still do have red zone issues.

lostknight
01-01-2010, 05:03 PM
Scheffler is a marginal TE. Why so much love for the guy?

He's not, that's the point.

We have a lot of high octane weapons - Sheffler, Royal, our O-line and Hillis just to name four, that are being asked to run on E85... and shockingly, they are not performing.

So is it the weapons or the system? The fact that every single component of the offense is under-performing indicates that it's the system.

strafen
01-01-2010, 05:30 PM
Scheffler is a marginal TE. Why so much love for the guy?I want to know how popps does it.
popps says the most stupid statements I've ever heard on the internet, and there's always more than one idiot repeating what popps says as if it was the gospel.

strafen
01-01-2010, 05:34 PM
Well yardage doesn't really prove anything. We were second in yardage. We were also second in pass attempts. Since passes average more then runs you should be ranked around the same in yardage and pass attempts. All that means is we chose to, or had to pass a lot. Usually you have to pass a lot because your d sucks or you turn it over a lot and have to score more to catch up. Both were true for us. But unlike the other top yardage offenses, we did not convert increased passing into increased scoring, just into increased turnovers.No matter how you look at it, our offense last year was way ahead of this year's offense.
Ok, here's another offensive statistic for you to try to find a way to discredit. Here you go...

This year we have 20 TD's passing and 7 TD's rushing

Last year, 25 TD's passing and 15 TD's rushing

skpac1001
01-01-2010, 05:54 PM
No matter how you look at it, our offense last year was way ahead of this year's offense.
Ok, here's another offensive statistic for you to try to find a way to discredit. Here you go...

This year we have 20 TD's passing and 7 TD's rushing

Last year, 25 TD's passing and 15 TD's rushing

I will discredit that stat if you will this one.

Games vs top 10 defenses.

Last year there were 2, one against #9 Bucs and one against #10 Pats.

We scored 16 and 7. Average score of 11.5

This year we faced #3 Ravens, #4 Bengals, #6 Steelers, #7 Eagles, #8 Pats, #10 Giants.

Scores were 12, 20, 7, 10, 26, 27. Average score... 17.

Both seem pretty close on the crappy scale to me.

By the way, the defenses were ranked by yardage. If you prefer scoring, last year TB and NE were still the only two, ranked 8 and 10. Obviously we also have the same 11.5 average score against them.
This year, it would be 2- Ravens 3 Cowboys 4 Patriots 5-Bengles, 7 Colts, and the average changes to 14.4. No big decline.

orinjkrush
01-01-2010, 06:19 PM
I'll take Scheff and Hillis.
You can have Quinn and Lamont J.

Popps
01-01-2010, 06:21 PM
Yardage - which is the way that everyone in the world except for you is vastly different. .

Incorrect.

You are the only person on the planet who measures yardage as a more important indicator of an offense than points and turnovers.


Reporter: Hey coach, your team just lost the game because of scoring less points.

Coach: But, look at how much yardage we had!!




Maybe stick with your fantasy football games.

KipCorrington25
01-01-2010, 07:18 PM
Scheffler's drops didn't even start this year either. It's amazing how some clammor for players like Scheffler and Hillis to play more despite the mistakes they constantly make. Gee, maybe that's why they don't play as much, but their fans think they should play anyway. Yeah, the team would just start playing so much better if those 2 idiots got more playing time. My living room temp. is higher than those 2 combined IQ's.

If mistakes got you out of the line up then Moreno would have sat for the last month, there is a double standard, guys from the old regime are all being pushed out systematically.

strafen
01-01-2010, 07:34 PM
If mistakes got you out of the line up then Moreno would have sat for the last month, there is a double standard, guys from the old regime are all being pushed out systematically.They won't see that. They have their heads so up in McDaniels ass they can't possibly see it any other way.

Popps
01-01-2010, 08:06 PM
If mistakes got you out of the line up then Moreno would have sat for the last month, there is a double standard, guys from the old regime are all being pushed out systematically.

What "mistakes" has Moreno made?

He's done exactly what the team has asked, and when Buck is healthy, he splits carries.

Double-standard?

How about... Moreno is just better than Hillis, and that's the end of the story.

barryr
01-01-2010, 08:21 PM
If mistakes got you out of the line up then Moreno would have sat for the last month, there is a double standard, guys from the old regime are all being pushed out systematically.


Moreno has been taken out of games when he fumbled, which he hasn't been doing much of that lately. Wow, a coach is going to want his own players and some players from a previous regime won't be back. No other coach ever does that, this is such a first. So you miss that mess of defensive talent that Shahanan had that was let go by McDaniels? You miss Ekuban, Engelberger, Clemmons, Robertson, Gold, Bly, Manuel, Paymah, and the rest? These guys were also "pushed out systematically?" Give me a break.

Hamrob
01-01-2010, 09:47 PM
What "mistakes" has Moreno made?

He's done exactly what the team has asked, and when Buck is healthy, he splits carries.

Double-standard?

How about... Moreno is just better than Hillis, and that's the end of the story.Come on, you can't be that stupid. Moreno has missed blocking assignment after blocking assignment. He's slow to hit the hole and he's had fumbling problems. He has looked less than average. Is he better than Hillis...gawd I'd hope so. He was picked #12 in the entire flippin draft. Where was Hillis taken? That being said, Moreno hasn't shown all that much to make anyone believe he's any better than Hillis is.

Hamrob
01-01-2010, 09:51 PM
Another thing on Moreno. For a guy taken in the top half of the first round...he really seems to have limited upside. He's not fast, which means he's not going to out run anyone. He's not quick, which means he's not going to out maneuver anyone and he's not big, which means he's not going to run over anyone. He reminds me alot of Mike Bell. He'll be a decent NFL back, but hardly a star. Very disapointing for such a hight pick.

Archer81
01-01-2010, 09:52 PM
Another thing on Moreno. For a guy taken in the top half of the first round...he really seems to have limited upside. He's not fast, which means he's not going to out run anyone. He's not quick, which means he's not going to out maneuver anyone and he's not big, which means he's not going to run over anyone. He reminds me alot of Mike Bell. He'll be a decent NFL back, but hardly a star. Very disapointing for such a hight pick.


Its his first season. Dont you want to wait and see what he does with a full offseason?


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
01-01-2010, 09:53 PM
Hamrob:

Go read TD's scouting reports when he came out.