Putin showing Obama the way

[cutthemdown]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/12/29/russia.offensive.weapons/index.html


Moscow, Russia (CNN) -- Russia needs to develop "offensive strike systems" to preserve strategic balance with the United States, without producing its own missile defense, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Tuesday.

Putin's comment, made at a press briefing in the far eastern Russian city of Vladivostok, echoed a similar call from Russian President Dmitry Medvedev last week.

"If we want to retain the balance, we have to establish an exchange of information: Let the U.S. partners provide us information on [their] missile defense while we will give them information on [our] offensive weapons," Putin said.




Wait I thought Obama backtracked on missile defense and made Putin happy. What a fool now Putin will ask for more because he still has done nothing about Iran. Obama still needs him. IMO Obama cashed that chip in too soon. His response should be well we got rid of missile defense where he objected, now he wants more? well then we should deploy the shield everywhere and quit thinking Russia will end up doing anything about Iran.

Obama better wise up he's getting fooled by Putin just like Bush Jr did. He should be smart enough to see what Putin did to Bush and be smarter. I thought Obama was supposed to be tricky and smart? I hope he has something up his sleeve.

[mhgaffney]

No Cut,

Putin offered the US a site in the Caucusus -- for a missile defense system -- to counter Iran.

Recall, GW Bush claimed the US sites in Poland and the Czech republic were supposed to counter a theoretical Iranian missiles threat.

Of course, this was a transparent lie-- and Putin exposed it for all the world to see by offering Bush the use of a site in the Caucusus. Which Bush promptly rejected.

Putin showed he was a lot smarter than Bush.

Cut, everyone in the wide world -- but apparently you -- understands that the proposed US missile defense sites in eastern Europe are aimed at Russia -- part of a US first strike plan.

Were you challenged as a child? A slow reader? Tell us...

[cutthemdown]

Eventually it will protect us from all missile strikes. Ones in Alaska etc etc. Of course I realize not all of it because of Iran. LOL whatever though. Unless some country planning on using missiles on us why would they care?

I could care less if Russia develops a missile defense, they should IMO.

[mhgaffney]

No Cut,

Check it out -- there is no defense against an ICBM first strike.

ABM systems are easy to counter simply by increasing the number of incoming missiles or warheads. ABM systems can be overwhelmed -- and thus are not very effective.

This is why ABM systems are inherently destabilizing. This is also why BOTH the US and USSR agreed in I think it was 1972 -- to forge the ABM Treaty, which sharply limited ABM defenses for both countries.

The treaty was mutually beneficial.

GW Bush unilaterally withdrew - from the treaty because he is a lunatic. The neo cons saw a weakened Russia - -and decided to go for a first strike capability. The only plausible use for an ABM system is as p[art of a first strike -- to mop up the few incoming enemy missiles which survive our first strike.

This explains the proposed ABM sites in Poland and the Czech Republic.

It's very very scary. We have to stop it.

MHG

[cutthemdown]

If they don't work then why would Russia care?

[cutthemdown]

Oh i see to mop up. That makes sense. I'm sure America's goal is to do a first strike nuclear assault in our final push for global domination.

[mhgaffney]

Cut,

You are being sarcastic. But sad to say this was the scary reality.

Check out this paper in Foreign Affairs about US Nuclear Primacy
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/61508/keir-a-lieber-and-daryl-g-press/the-rise-of-us-nuclear-primacy

Also check out this post about the US Space Command -- the goal of which was/is "full spectrum dominance..."
http://www.peaceactionme.org/vision.h

[Tombstone RJ]

Putin is extremely smart and he doesn't play by anyone's rules but his own. He's an old school KGB/Soviet Red Army kind of guy and the moment you understand this is the moment you will be able to understand his motives and his ultimate goal which is to return Russia to a ligitimate global power with the nuclear weapons.

The only thing Putin respects is power. If you give in to him, he will deem that as weak and take advantage of you again. However, if you pull a Reagan on him, he will negotiate and capitulate.

Know Thy Enemy.

[mhgaffney]

I disagree. He will never capitulate.

Putin understands that Russia will never be a global power as was the USSR.

He is a nationalist -- of course -- and wants to strengthen Russia. Let us hope he succeeds. If the US shows true leadership -- then Russia is NOT a threat to us. It all depends on the quality of US leadership. Lately -- sad to say - we have not had any leadership.

We must stop trying to destabilize Russia -- in the Caucusus, in eastern Europe, in the Ukraine - and in Asia. Just stop the CIA program of causing havoc. This is NOT in the US interests -=- nor in the interests of world peace.

As the US superpower status wanes -- we will need closer ties with Russia -- for many many reasons.

[watermock]

ABM's do nothing constructive.

I can't believe we don't et off the oit teat with all this CO2 is dong to deetate us when we hve tons of nuclear weapons, we still won't build no safe nuclear, despite having subs, carriers and star wars.

Luckily, UFO's have allrady demontrated the ability to take certain sites offline, but how many, and what about the subs?

We have to build nuke plants that cannot melt down, in case of accident or attack.

[Tombstone RJ]

I disagree. He will never capitulate.

Putin understands that Russia will never be a global power as was the USSR.

He is a nationalist -- of course -- and wants to strengthen Russia. Let us hope he succeeds. If the US shows true leadership -- then Russia is NOT a threat to us. It all depends on the quality of US leadership. Lately -- sad to say - we have not had any leadership.

We must stop trying to destabilize Russia -- in the Caucusus, in eastern Europe, in the Ukraine - and in Asia. Just stop the CIA program of causing havoc. This is NOT in the US interests -=- nor in the interests of world peace.

As the US superpower status wanes -- we will need closer ties with Russia -- for many many reasons.

We'll just agree to disagree. Putin is a little more than a gangster IMHO. He understands nothing but a fist in his face and he respects nothing but power.

Russia is spying on the US right now! They probably have more spies and subversive actions going on in the US than vice versa.

The US isn't trying to destabilize Russia where are you getting this crap from? Why destabilize a country that has thousands of nuclear warheads that can fall into the hands of terrorists? The US has no interest is seeing Russia destabilize even more than it already is because that would mean more chaos and ultimately more threats to the US.

What the US wants from Russia is a government that they can work with. Putin is simply trying to keep control over Russia. He's little more than a dictator and a Stalin wannabe.

Gaf, you b**** and moan about the US supporting corrupt regimes (and I agree) yet you don't understand when the US has a problem with a dictator like Putin who has thousands of nuclear warheads at his disposal, oh and by the way, can sell those warheads to the highest bidder.

You don't bow down to despots like Putin. Putin understands one thing and one thing only: POWER. You either show him a fist and call his bluff, or you get ready to be bent over and take it in the azzz.

Sorry, I don't wanna get raped by a power hungry dictator.

[mhgaffney]

We'll just agree to disagree. Putin is a little more than a gangster IMHO. He understands nothing but a fist in his face and he respects nothing but power.

Russia is spying on the US right now! They probably have more spies and subversive actions going on in the US than vice versa.

The US isn't trying to destabilize Russia where are you getting this crap from? Why destabilize a country that has thousands of nuclear warheads that can fall into the hands of terrorists? The US has no interest is seeing Russia destabilize even more than it already is because that would mean more chaos and ultimately more threats to the US.

What the US wants from Russia is a government that they can work with. Putin is simply trying to keep control over Russia. He's little more than a dictator and a Stalin wannabe.

.

The facts demonstrate conclusively -- that you are dead wrong.

The US under Clinton helped the Chechen resistance in Chechnya to fight the Russians. This involved airlifting al Qaeda Islamic radicals from Afghanistan into Chechnya.

Also under Clinton-- the US also supported a Kosovo terror group in the Balkans -- and we also allowed the airlift of Al Qaeda fighters into THAT war. THis was an indirect attack on Russia- - which has always been closely allied with the Slavs in the Balkans.

We also provoked the mini war during the presidential campaign -- last year -- also in the Caucusus.McCain had even sent a personal envoy to egg on the anti-Russian tyrant who started the war.

Why is the US fueling war and unrest on Russia's southern border? Because this region is strategically vital to Russia's oil revenues, which is the life blood of the nation -- its main export.

Russia pipes its oil and gas thru the Caucusus -- from the Caspian to Europe. In his book THE GLOBAL CHESSBOARD Z Brzezinski identified this region as one of the most strategically vital on the planet. No wonder the CIA is in there.

This is only a short list - by no means complete...

[mhgaffney]

One other point -- during the 1990s -- after the collapse of the USSR -- Wall Street, the world bank, the International MOnetary Fund -- tried to impose draconian neo liberal economics on Russia. They did Yeltsyn to do this. He was naive and probably also corrupt.

A handful of Russian oligarchs proceeded to buy much of Russia's vast wealth for pennies on the dollar-- with money borrowed from the west -- then proceeded to gut the Russian economy --

They came within a whisker of destroying Russia. Putin prosecuted the oligarchs or exiled them -- and took back what had been essentially stolen.

This accounts for Putin's popularity in Russia- - regardless of what you or I think of the man.

[mhgaffney]

Another thing Putin did was to restore Russia's nuclear deterrence.

During the 1990s Russia's nuclear establishment fell into ruin. The US nuclear advantage increased under Clinton and this continued under Bush. The US was on the verge of gaining a first strike capability--

Putin ordered the construction by the Russian navy of several new submarines capable of launching nuclear armed ICBMs.

Puitin restored deterrence. This was a good thing. Otherwise, the neo cons might have launched even worse aggression....

[Tombstone RJ]

The facts demonstrate conclusively -- that you are dead wrong.

The US under Clinton helped the Chechen resistance in Chechnya to fight the Russians. This involved airlifting al Qaeda Islamic radicals from Afghanistan into Chechnya.

Also under Clinton-- the US also supported a Kosovo terror group in the Balkans -- and we also allowed the airlift of Al Qaeda fighters into THAT war. THis was an indirect attack on Russia- - which has always been closely allied with the Slavs in the Balkans.

We also provoked the mini war during the presidential campaign -- last year -- also in the Caucusus.McCain had even sent a personal envoy to egg on the anti-Russian tyrant who started the war.

Why is the US fueling war and unrest on Russia's southern border? Because this region is strategically vital to Russia's oil revenues, which is the life blood of the nation -- its main export.

Russia pipes its oil and gas thru the Caucusus -- from the Caspian to Europe. In his book THE GLOBAL CHESSBOARD Z Brzezinski identified this region as one of the most strategically vital on the planet. No wonder the CIA is in there.

This is only a short list - by no means complete...

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but weren't places like Georgia, Chechnya, the Balkans all vieing for independence from Russia? That is, yes, under the iron curtain the USSR had many satelite states with puppet governments. However, when the USSR folded, then these countries wanted to be out from under the hand of the Russian state.

I think you and I are talking about 2 different things. I'm talking about destabilizing "Russia" and that does NOT include it's neighbors that want nothing to do with Russia.

You are talking about countries bordering Russia proper, yes?

Again, Putin wants to expand control over countries that border Russia in order to access more territory for Russian and gain more enfluence. It's akin to the US going into Mexico and saying "we're taking over."

I don't have any sympathy for Putin or Russia, if they are forcing their neighbors to dance with them. Again, it's about those countries like Georgia asking the US for help and the US helping.

[Tombstone RJ]

One other point -- during the 1990s -- after the collapse of the USSR -- Wall Street, the world bank, the International MOnetary Fund -- tried to impose draconian neo liberal economics on Russia. They did Yeltsyn to do this. He was naive and probably also corrupt.

A handful of Russian oligarchs proceeded to buy much of Russia's vast wealth for pennies on the dollar-- with money borrowed from the west -- then proceeded to gut the Russian economy --

They came within a whisker of destroying Russia. Putin prosecuted the oligarchs or exiled them -- and took back what had been essentially stolen.

This accounts for Putin's popularity in Russia- - regardless of what you or I think of the man.

I can buy this. Russian is made up of old school oligarchs and gangsters. The Russian state is more like a state of thugs and mafioso than a state of people and elected officials.

Russia is corrupt at it's core. Putin is just strong arming his way to the top.

[Tombstone RJ]

Another thing Putin did was to restore Russia's nuclear deterrence.

During the 1990s Russia's nuclear establishment fell into ruin. The US nuclear advantage increased under Clinton and this continued under Bush. The US was on the verge of gaining a first strike capability--

Putin ordered the construction by the Russian navy of several new submarines capable of launching nuclear armed ICBMs.

Puitin restored deterrence. This was a good thing. Otherwise, the neo cons might have launched even worse aggression....

Now your just being silly. The US has always had a far, far superior first strike capability over Russia. Nothing's changed in those regards except for the fact the Russia has destabilized and shrunk.

Putin hasn't done one damn constructive thing for his people except pump money into the military. I don't necessarily have a problem with this because of all the nukes floating around.

But give me a break, the US is not going to launch a first strike against Russia for no reason. Putin just uses that as an excuse to strangle power away from the people of Russia and put it in his own pocket.

Russia is corrupt at it's core. Once you understand this, you'll understand who you are dealing with.

[Dukes]

Now your just being silly. The US has always had a far, far superior first strike capability over Russia. Nothing's changed in those regards except for the fact the Russia has destabilized and shrunk.

Putin hasn't done one damn constructive thing for his people except pump money into the military. I don't necessarily have a problem with this because of all the nukes floating around.

But give me a break, the US is not going to launch a first strike against Russia for no reason. Putin just uses that as an excuse to strangle power away from the people of Russia and put it in his own pocket.

Russia is corrupt at it's core. Once you understand this, you'll understand who you are dealing with.

Don't let facts get in the way of Gaffs paranoia

[watermock]

Putin's a deposed KGB monster, a POS and a calculating mobster.