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bpc
12-29-2009, 01:31 PM
What would give this staff as a grade for 2009? How do we improve from here? You can say i'm wrong or right. You can post your own opinion. Let's try to keep it civil and actually post thoughts for discussion. Thanks!

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1. Acquisitions FA/Draft: C

I'd give McD a B just based on the players picked up on defense. Dawkins has been great, Goodman/Hill/Davis/Reid/Holiday very solid. Gaffney and Buck have done fairly well.

The trade for Orton and subsequent reaching for players during the draft with their player pool of 40 people brings the rankings down for me.

I think Knowshon is what we thought he is. A guy that can play 3 downs, yet doesn't dynamically change a game. His longest carry this year was 35 yds. He doesn't break tackles YET, and can't evade people. He also tends to run too much east and west instead of hitting the ball up into the LOS.

I think Ayers will be fine despite the fact he hasn't recorded a sack this year. That's a pathetic stat by the way considering he's been put in a lot of the same positions Dumervil has.

Alphonso Smith has looked terrible this year. We overpaid for a short, slow, nickel cornerback. There is no other way to phrase it. We have to hope that he can get better from where he's at right now. He does not look like a guy who could take over for Champ Bailey in two years should we decided he isn't worth the money. Sad, but true.

Darcel McBath was solid. Bruton was solid. Quinn looks horrible run blocking... and I know he wasn't brought in for his offensive presence in the passing game so this doesn't bode well for us as of right now.

The draft based on giving this team a boost is a D at best.

Overall personnel from FA to the draft is a C at best for me. Possibly a C minus by how limited Orton looks.

2. Offensive/Defensive Scheme & Philosophy: C

I agree with what McD wants to do or at least says he wants to do: He wants a physical offense that can iso block teams and open up the pass. On defense, he wants a scheme diverse unit which can play a 3-4 or 4-3 depending on the matchup and rush the passer.

On offense he failed miserably at turning this unit into a physical running team. The OL looks confused and out-matched. Some of our best linemen, like Clady and Kuper have regressed TERRIBLY. The HB's can't make people miss or break tackles. Not only that, McD's commitment to the run game looks like lip service when you watch how many times Air Orton chucks up the ball. Basically this is a dink and dunk offense, which screen passes far too much and expects the run game to keep the defense honest, which it can't.

Defense has been a solid in transition, if not spectacular in spurts. The run defense has been average to good most of the season, except when it counted against great run games. The pass rush has been excellent (primarily Elvis). We're up in sacks and TO's this year. That's huge. Too bad the offense usually butt****s them by going 3 and out in the redzone so often we have to settle for field goals.

This is a C for me, saved only by how great the defense has played.

4. Use of Roster Talent: C

If you consider trading a franchise type QB for the disaster that is Kyle Orton, well, this goes down quite a bit. Buck has been solid, Moreno just okay, Hillis hasn't been given a chance to do much of anything, even on our poor 3rd/4th and short units. I would have thought a FB/HB who can catch like him would be used more. I think in a guy like Sean Payton's offense, Hillis probably gets 10-15 called plays a game.

Brandon Marshall finally caught on after being wasted the 1st half of the season. Eddie Royal has dropped from 100 catches to 37. Put his face on the back of a milk-carton. Stokely was productive the first few games and hasn't done crap really since. Gaffney has had a few nice games. Basically, I'm pointing the finger at Kyle Orton and the McD offense. They aren't using the players right. Personally I would rather see BMarsh and Gaffney lined up on the outsides and let Royal, a small, fast, quick guy, take advantage of the slot. I would also give Hillis a chance to carry the ball. Say what you want about him, he was playing behind basically the exact same offensive line last year and trucking people.

The OL looks horrible this year. How many sacks did we give up last season? Now we're at 37? While losing Ryan Harris hurt, that's not the whole story. I don't know if Dennison cashed in his chips, if the scheme is a bad fit, whatever. This unit doesn't look the same. Ryan Clady was shutting out guys like Ware, Merriman, Abraham and others last season. Now he can't stop a rotation of Raider DE's?

The defense has been solid, greatly aided by FA pickups. I credit Mike Nolan for being an excellent DC with the way he calls his defense, uses his players, and makes adjustments. He's made Elvis Dumervil into a pro bowler in the 3-4.

This is a C for me. This offense is failing miserably and at least the OL should look good. They do not. The defense is the saving grace.

5. Intangibles: F

McD is often loud for no reason. Smug in the media. Comes off as a petulant, arrogant a-hole when his decisions are called into question and won't change his square peg in a round hole thinking for anybody.

More recently, he's been throwing his offensive line under the bus in much the same fashion Cutler hater's complain about the way he criticizes through the media.

I see a polarization happening as we speak and instead of bringing the team together, McD is casting certain people out.

F.

6. Results: D

In retrospect, most likely both 08' and 09' Bronco teams will miss the playoffs. There's no style points to this, even if we did predict the team to win 4 games. I don't recall anybody being high on the 08' team thinking that they would win their division or make the playoffs. Most knew it was a transition year and while Shanny wouldn't call it that, we were in year 2 or 3 of a rebuilding period. We just so happened to beat SD out the gates and out-paced them most of the year because injuries tore-apart the campaign. We collapsed and people complained of what a bust it was. This year is no difference. There isn't really any significant injuries to speak of outside of Ryan Harris and we've fallen flat on our faces in the worst of places. We started 6-0 only to go 2-7 down the stretch and have managed to fall out of the drivers seat to even make the playoffs.

This offense is on-par with the worst I've seen in Denver over the past 20 years. Worse when you consider the weapons we had coming into the year at WR and OL, which have been completely wasted. Orton (McD's chosen one) has been poor to average most of the year. He has a weak arm, isn't very accurate, can't move, and has some of the worst pocket awareness i've ever seen. He sacks himself once or twice a game. The playcalling is predictable and often pathetic. Bubble screen, bubble screen, run. Punt.

Agree or disagree, we basically traded away what would have been a top 5 offense (my opinion, it could have been up with the Saints and Colts in a few years) for a temporary better defense. Unfortunately the defense still can't stop the run when it counts and the offense can barely generate 17 pts on its own, without the boon of TO's to help it out.

The defense has been solid but has holes at many positions as of right now moving forward. Doom is a FA, Champ and the CB's are getting older, the MLB's are average and the front line is made up of spare parts from a 4-3 defense, old vets and 3-4 backup players. You can't really be happy about the present while worried about the future of this unit. Who's the rock bringing us forward which we can depend on going into next year? Elvis, BMarsh and even Orton could be wearing different colors next year.



7. Future: F

Where does this team go from here? It has more questions than answers. Who is going to play QB next year? Orton is average and a FA. Most likely he'll want a large contract and we'll have to overpay. The rest of the FA QB market is by large pathetic.

HB has Knowshon and given the price we paid for him, he better be great. Unfortunately he'll probably need a backfield mate for him in the future once Buck is finished... and that shouldn't be too far away.

BMarsh is a FA. He'll be looking for a max-pay day and he has the specter of beating women hanging out in his background which still scares me. One more incident and he could be sitting 4-8 games. What of Eddie Royal? Is he a 100 catch guy, or a 35 catch guy? Gaffney, stop gap player? Stokley? The TE's? D. Graham is making too much money for a guy who produces as little as he does in this offense.

The OL? Clady looked like a franchise player, now he does not. Sophomore slump? Is Harris injury prone? Kuper and Weigman bad fits for this system? LG has been a blackhole all year. Who do we sign to fill that spot?

The DL? Right now it's filled with retreads. When are we going to put some structure in place for the future? McBean, Fields, Peterson, Thomas, Holliday, Reid among others are all backup players starting in spurts for us. When do we infuse serious talent?

Are we going to find somebody who can rush the passer opposite of Doom? He's a FA by the way... are we going to resign him?

Andra Davis, is he the long term answer at MLB for us? He played great the first four or five games, non-existent in long spurts during our 2-7 nosedive... that's the exact same rep he had in Cleveland by the way. When we find an answer for that position?

CB? Champ Bailey is coming up on his contract season in 2010. What is our solution to that? Goodman, Hill and Dawkins are all 30+. What happens to their positions?

Punter has been horrendous all year. What about that?

F.

8. Overall Grade - D

I hate to be a debbie downer but we sacrificed a potentially great offense this past season to add some aging pieces to this defense and reaches through the draft. Now there is no long term solution for either side of the ball and we're very much stuck in transition going into 2010. We may have had brief success, but many Belicheck disciples have had solid first years ( if you can call not making the playoffs that) only to flame out in year 2 or 3 when the transition got heavier. McD may be a great mind and coach, but the odds are against him to do it in Denver during his first ever head coaching stint.

What is the blue print for this team moving forward? How do we get better? Where are the strengths we can fall back on?

Paladin
12-29-2009, 01:32 PM
Herre we go again.......

Shyte's getting old.....

bpc
12-29-2009, 01:33 PM
You're not really adding how we can get better to the discussion.

Rabb
12-29-2009, 01:35 PM
You're not really adding how we can get better to the discussion.

objectivity of this post overall: F

bpc
12-29-2009, 01:36 PM
objectivity of this post overall: F

It's just an opinion. Care to refute or post your thoughts?

Paladin
12-29-2009, 01:38 PM
objectivity of this post overall: F

this......

bowtown
12-29-2009, 01:45 PM
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/littlestory.jpg

srphoenix
12-29-2009, 01:46 PM
Can the powers that be please ban this guy blatantly describing himself:

5. Intangibles: F

BPC is often loud for no reason. Smug in the media. Comes off as a petulant, arrogant a-hole when his decisions are called into question and won't change his square peg in a round hole thinking for anybody.

More recently, he's been throwing his offensive line under the bus in much the same fashion Cutler hater's complain about the way he criticizes through the media.

I see a polarization happening as we speak and instead of bringing the team together, BPC is casting certain people out.

F.

Meck77
12-29-2009, 01:47 PM
objectivity of this post overall: F

agreed...yawn

jmz313
12-29-2009, 01:55 PM
A team most thought would go 4-12 still has a playoff chance and the overall Grade is a D? You obviously set your expectations in week 6.

wolf754life
12-29-2009, 01:56 PM
this is comedy............. we are going to finish with 9 wins

almost made the playoffs

beat the chargers, cowboys and patriots

all the haters were saying 3 to 6 wins max

you guys are so funny.............

bowtown
12-29-2009, 01:56 PM
A team most thought would go 4-12 still has a playoff chance and the overall Grade is a D? You obviously set your expectations in week 6.

It's more like he set his unwavering bias the day we traded away his diabetic boyfriend.

Popps
12-29-2009, 01:57 PM
Troll alert.

bpc
12-29-2009, 02:02 PM
How would improve the team from here moving forward:

QB: Attempt to bring Kyle Orton back, but secure the services of another experienced signal caller. Jason Campbell or Kellen Clemons would work for me. I would like to have Kyle back signed to a minimum starter type deal. I would be happy to hand him 4 million for 2 or 3 seasons. It would allow us to have a buffer going into next year when hopefully we're grooming a successor. I'm indifferent on guys like Campbell but I would like to see competition come in to challenge Kyle. Denver's QB position is hardly guaranteed and I could see them being interested.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/jason%20campbell" target="_blank"><img src="http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/datsyuk1340/washington-redskins-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Jason Campbell Washington Redskins Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

We should draft a QB in rounds 1-4 of this draft. I don't think we need to overpay for one. This draft should be deep. My expectation is that we could keep as many as four QB's on the active roster next year along with Brandstater.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/ryan%20mallet" target="_blank"><img src="http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt33/stylish313/College%20Prospects/RyanMallet.jpg" border="0" alt="Mallet, Ryan Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

HB: I think we have to keep giving the ball to Moreno and hope he improves. I think Buckhalter has had a very solid season but he's far from what I would eventually want at the position. I would love to see Denver go after a veteran like Chester Taylor. Somebody who can mentor Moreno on the game, the nuances of what he is expected to do running, catching and blocking. I think Taylor's game is a perfect fit for McD's offense.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/chester%20taylor" target="_blank"><img src="http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p222/sexyfest15/ChesterTaylor.jpg" border="0" alt="Chester Taylor Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

I also wouldn't be against us taking a look at Anthony Dixon around the 3rd or 4th round.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/anthony%20dixon" target="_blank"><img src="http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x231/ktfuds/ANTHONYDIXON.jpg" border="0" alt="Anthony Dixon Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

WR: We're going to have to make some tough choices at WR. I like Brandon Marshall, I'm not emotionally attached to him. In an ideal world, we would resign him and he would finish his career as our all-time leading receiver. I doubt it's going to go down like that. The good news is, he's proven over and over his value on the field and he could be a powerful bargaining chip for teams that may be hungry for a starting WR.

I have a crazy thought in my head when April comes where we could add a talented player like Dez Bryant in the first round, and we could put both him and Marshall out on the edges of this offense. In that situation, Royal could slide into the slot where he could be better utilized along with Gaffney. I would love this setup but we have a lot of holes on this team. We'll need to go BPA when the draft comes around. I'm also not against trading back from around 10 to pick up multiple draft selections. IN that scenario, i would love to see Denver take a look at Golden Tate, mid to late first round. I think he's going to be another Steve Smith in the league.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/dez%20bryant" target="_blank"><img src="http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/Tlinzy10/Dez_Bryant2.jpg" border="0" alt="Dez Bryant Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/golden%20tate" target="_blank"><img src="http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp33/bubbylovesgirls/ncf_u_tate_275.jpg" border="0" alt="golden tate Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

Unfortunately all QB options are still tied to Kyle Orton and can he get them the ball?

Offensive line is a mess but i'm going to lean on a new line coach coming in to run McD's scheme and get the most out of talented guys like Clady, Harris and Kuper. I do think we should resign Kuper. I would also like to see us make a strong play for a guy like Logan Mankins. It makes a lot of sense that we would go after him.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/logan%20mankins" target="_blank"><img src="http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff139/psycho_puppy/Patriots/LoganMankins.jpg" border="0" alt="Logan Mankins Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

If FA doesn't work out, I wouldn't mind targeting a guy like Charles Brown in the draft from USC. He plays LT, but he has the size, strength, and speed to really be a factor down blocking, pass blocking and trapping. I think he could play LG and start right now. He could also play tackle in a pinch at a very high level.

<a href="http://s434.photobucket.com/albums/qq68/bpc5180/?action=view&current=76690236.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq68/bpc5180/76690236.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

That's what I think about this offense. I'll post my defensive thoughts soon.

bowtown
12-29-2009, 02:08 PM
How would improve the team from here moving forward:



Why even post this? You've already graded us out as an F for the future. You clearly don't see us improving so what's even the point of trying?

MaloCS
12-29-2009, 02:14 PM
Overall Grade = C-

Coach = D

How to get better? Fire McDumbass so he can take his short, beady eyed ass back to New England. We don't need his ilk here.

Broncoman13
12-29-2009, 02:15 PM
What would give this staff as a grade for 2009? How do we improve from here? You can say i'm wrong or right. You can post your own opinion. Let's try to keep it civil and actually post thoughts for discussion. Thanks!

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1. Acquisitions FA/Draft: C

The Acquisitions at the time seemed awful, but as it runs out Ronald Fields, Andra Davis, Dawkins, Buckhalter, Hill, Goodman, and Holiday have all played MAJOR parts on our defense. A defense that has run hot/cold, but compared to last year they are AWESOME! For that portion they get an A.

The draft was puzzling and I'm not ready to overlook the trade for Alphonso Smith. Knowing that you've turned over the roster dramatically and that you're going to need a year to see what you really have, it would have been wise to stockpile picks rather than giving them away. I'll give McD credit, he gave up the right pick (ours) which I thought was dumb at the time. I liked the Moreno pick and that was it of the first 5. I thought we should have drafted Orakpo at the time and then went offense (I called Harvin before the draft) with #18. I don't care for Ayers even though he has shown glimpses. I thought Smith was a good pick despite what we gave up. Until the Iggles game he was having a very forgettable season. There is hope, but not as much as I had during camp. Hated the McBath pick and though the Quinn pick was a head scratcher. Turns out McBath looks like a player but Quinn still doesn't give much to hope for. Olsen, McKinley and Bruton were all solid picks though it's a bit puzzling that only Bruton has made a big impact on the field. Overall, I'd give the draft a C- but it is really early to be grading these guys. I'll say this much, if these guys don't make big leaps in year two this grade will go down quickly. If guys like McBath, Ayers, and Smith pan out, this grade goes to a B+... btw, I am assuming that Moreno will only build on a SOLID rookie season.

Overall for Draft and Free Agency, B-

2. Offensive/Defensive Scheme & Philosophy: C

You say C, I say C. Love the Defenseive Scheme. Hate that we have a QB that cannot operate an offense any better. Orton is a tease. Every once in a while he'll throw up 300 yards and a couple of scores to get off the hot seat, but he isn't going to take this team to the promised land. Offense C- Defense A-. Total grade is a C.

4. Use of Roster Talent: C

You say C, I say A-. We just don't have that much talent on this roster to begin with. The only guys I think we haven't used effectively are Royal and Scheffler. I know people are down on McD b/c of Hillis, but do you really think that if Bobby Turner, Rick Dennison, and McCoy were pushing McD to use him more, he wouldn't? Alphonso Smith IS a McD boy and he isn't playing him b/c of what his coaches are telling him. Same thing goes for Hillis, he isn't playing b/c he isn't doing the right things in practice and preparation. Defensively, we've used our talent (or lack thereof) to the greatest degree imaginable. Nolan deserves an A+ and the defense gets that grade for making lemonade out of a few lemons... please cut Woodyard btw.

On offense it's a mixed bag b/c of Scheff and Royal. Little frustrating b/c I think it has everythign to do with the QB rather than the system. C+ for the offense's use of personnel.

5. Intangibles: F

Hard to argue this grade. Early in the year I would have said it was a B+ maybe even an A. At this point, they have regressed to no better than a D.


6. Results: D

You say D, I say B-. With the lack of talent I figured this team was a 4-12 maybe 5-11 team. Then I went to camp and saw some things that really brightened my spirits. I walked out of camp thinking they had the ability to be a playoff team and we're right on the bubble. With a little luck we'll be in, but regardless the results of this team are worthy of accolades.


7. Future: F


Big time difference of opinion here. In one offseason Josh McDaniels and his staff were able to turn the roster over by nearly 60%. With that much turnover you had to assume a 4-12 seaso was on the horizon... with a little luck maybe we beat the Chefs twice, Raiders twice, and sneak a few more to win six. We came out blazing. Everybody's expectation of Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, and Alphonso Smith is that they will improve in year two. We had the same expectations of Cutler and Marshall and Doom and Royal and just about every other rookie you can think of. Why would you not have the same expectations of Josh McDaniels? He'll go back to the drawing boards, identify what went wrong and fix it. I can almost guarantee that this team will be much improved next year. A ton of cap room or at least money that isn't yet obligated and a full year of performance to evaluate in his system... yeah, there will be a lot of good changes for this team starting in a few weeks. The Broncos are on the right track. The future to me is worth of a B+. The only reason we don't get an A is b/c I still have questions about our rookie class and more importantly what we'll do at QB. Stick with Kyle Orton and not draft an heir apparent, C-. Make the right moves at that position and this team is easily an A+ for the future. QB is key right now.

8. Overall Grade - D

Overall grade for this team considering the expectations and performance but also weighing in the QB position and rookies progress. B-



My notes below your initial grades...

misturanderson
12-29-2009, 02:16 PM
How would improve the team from here moving forward:

QB: Attempt to bring Kyle Orton back, but secure the services of another experienced signal caller. Jason Campbell or Kellen Clemons would work for me. I would like to have Kyle back signed to a minimum starter type deal. I would be happy to hand him 4 million for 2 or 3 seasons. It would allow us to have a buffer going into next year when hopefully we're grooming a successor. I'm indifferent on guys like Campbell but I would like to see competition come in to challenge Kyle. Denver's QB position is hardly guaranteed and I could see them being interested.

We should draft a QB in rounds 1-4 of this draft. I don't think we need to overpay for one. This draft should be deep. My expectation is that we could keep as many as four QB's on the active roster next year along with Brandstater.

HB: I think we have to keep giving the ball to Moreno and hope he improves. I think Buckhalter has had a very solid season but he's far from what I would eventually want at the position. I would love to see Denver go after a veteran like Chester Taylor. Somebody who can mentor Moreno on the game, the nuances of what he is expected to do running, catching and blocking. I think Taylor's game is a perfect fit for McD's offense.

I also wouldn't be against us taking a look at Anthony Dixon around the 3rd or 4th round.

WR: We're going to have to make some tough choices at WR. I like Brandon Marshall, I'm not emotionally attached to him. In an ideal world, we would resign him and he would finish his career as our all-time leading receiver. I doubt it's going to go down like that. The good news is, he's proven over and over his value on the field and he could be a powerful bargaining chip for teams that may be hungry for a starting WR.

I have a crazy thought in my head when April comes where we could add a talented player like Dez Bryant in the first round, and we could put both him and Marshall out on the edges of this offense. In that situation, Royal could slide into the slot where he could be better utilized along with Gaffney. I would love this setup but we have a lot of holes on this team. We'll need to go BPA when the draft comes around. I'm also not against trading back from around 10 to pick up multiple draft selections. IN that scenario, i would love to see Denver take a look at Golden Tate, mid to late first round. I think he's going to be another Steve Smith in the league.

<Unfortunately all QB options are still tied to Kyle Orton and can he get them the ball?

Offensive line is a mess but i'm going to lean on a new line coach coming in to run McD's scheme and get the most out of talented guys like Clady, Harris and Kuper. I do think we should resign Kuper. I would also like to see us make a strong play for a guy like Logan Mankins. It makes a lot of sense that we would go after him. If FA doesn't work out, I wouldn't mind targeting a guy like Charles Brown in the draft from USC. He plays LT, but he has the size, strength, and speed to really be a factor down blocking, pass blocking and trapping. I think he could play LG and start right now. He could also play tackle in a pinch at a very high level.

That's what I think about this offense. I'll post my defensive thoughts soon.

I don't really disagree with any of this, but we aren't going to be able to get good WR, QB and OL talent in the early rounds of this draft without neglecting the defense.

I think it will be a couple more years before we can even pretend to have an elite team on the field without some major FA and draft hits this offseason.

dbfan21
12-29-2009, 02:16 PM
bpc, you obcviosly spent a lot of time typing this up, so good for you for trying to add some value to the Mane. Having said that, I don't see eye-to-eye with you on pretty much everything.

I think the FA & Draft Acq's have been pretty damn good.
FA: BDawk, Gaffney, ADavis, Holliday, Hill, Goodman, Field, McBean, etc, etc have been solid contributors.
Draft: Moreno & Ayers have steadily improved throughout the season and have shown flashes of brilliance that will surely get better in year #2. Smith and Quinn have had some good moments and some bad ones, but the talent is there and will continue to get better in OTA's & TC's.

O & D Schemes:
Learning new terminology is very tough to do. I would say our O has done as we expected (not as great as the 08 version, but steady). Our D is much improved and Nolan has proved he can make effective halftime adjustments.

Use of roster talent:
Here is one of the best jobs by the coaching staff. We took a bunch of guys other teams didn't want (esp. on defense) and assembled a TEAM that fights hard for each other and the coaches. The attitude is waaay better than it was last year (see Winborn and Webster).

Intangibles:
McD's refusal to coddle Baby Jay worked out well...as did the handling of the BMarsh situation. I would say the "pep talk" on Thanksgiving got the guys going and helped set the attitude for the remainder of that game. I like McD and the aggressive style he brings. I love Shanahan, but his style reeked of complacency. Plus, McD did a great job of bringing in a ton of great assistant coaches (Nunnelly, Martindale, Donatell, not to mention retaining the two best assistants of the Shanny era, Dennison and Turner).

Results:
Sure we feel like we should have easily made the playoffs, but if you are honest with yourself, you had this team pegged at 6-10 or 7-9 at the very best before the season started. This team has overachieved if anything! I thought we'd be somewhere between 4-12 and 6-10 before the season considering the drama, the schedule and the changes in every phase of the game (O, D & ST).

Future:
Our future is very bright. We have an aggressive coach, a "cap-savvy" GM, an owner who wants to win always, a core nucleus of awesome players and the best fan base in the NFL.

Just my .02 :peace:

Requiem
12-29-2009, 02:17 PM
I had a ****ing long post lined up, but the God damn site always logs me out and times out. Piece of ****ing cock****.

DBroncos4life
12-29-2009, 02:19 PM
I liked the board better when it was cool to have football conversations.

Front office clearly A plus
Draft A plus from round one to seven every player is a future hall of fame caliber player
FA not one player is a miss A plus
play calling A plus
everything else A plus

Future of the team I see a run of 12 super bowl wins before McD quits to become the first president of the WORLD.

Garcia Bronco
12-29-2009, 02:19 PM
I type long posts in a text doc.


I have to give the new guy a solid B. I would love to interview him and the first question I would ask is ...what did you learn this year and how do you think you'll apply it next year.

Endy
12-29-2009, 02:20 PM
How do you assign grades "through this year" when this year is not "through"?

Pittsburgh won SB 40 as a 6 seed remember? I'd like to rate your fandom as an "incomplete" since you apparently give up before the season is really over.

You have until the 7th week of next semester to fulfill the requirements of this course and then I will change that grade accordingly.

yavoon
12-29-2009, 02:20 PM
imagine the grades if we finished below .500? is there a grade below f? maybe z.

TonyR
12-29-2009, 02:22 PM
My notes below your initial grades...

Good post.

Perhaps the largest factor that bpc, and people like him, overlook is this: the Denver Broncos have played the 7th most difficult schedule in the league thus far this year as ranked by Sagarin, compared to the 3rd easiest schedule last year. There's no point in arguing with someone who cannot see the significance of this.

Requiem
12-29-2009, 02:22 PM
Overall most of my grades were C+, C- or B- -- so an average of around a C+.

55CrushEm
12-29-2009, 02:27 PM
I type long posts in a text doc.


I have to give the new guy a solid B. I would love to interview him and the first question I would ask is ...what did you learn this year and how do you think you'll apply it next year.

Yep, bpc and broncodouche7 are doomsayers.

My biggest disagreement is with the "future" of this team.....I think it is very bright. McD took a trashy roster and started us 6-0 with COACHING. But as most know, by midseason, teams figure you out, and the lack of talent becomes apparent. Well, guess what? Most of that is attibutable to the previous regime.

How can anyone honestly expect a new coach to have tremendous success in his first year when trying to implement a new system on BOTH sides of the ball, with players that don't fit his system?

And the biggest point.....do you all remember that this year Denver was saddled with the MOST DEAD CAP SPACE OF ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE?!?! OVER 30 MILLION!! Again, thanks Shanny.

Next year most of this will free up and we should be in a great cap situation.....for this reason alone I think the future is VERY BRIGHT!

BPC and broncodouche7 are just Shanny/Cutler widows.....which I will always find peculiar...b/c where do they think the team was going under them?? You are always whining about the fact we didn't improve late in the season under McD.......well what the **** were we doing under Shanny?!?! ****ing hypocrites.....all of you.

Go eat a bag of d1cks!

Broncoman13
12-29-2009, 02:28 PM
Good post.

Perhaps the largest factor that bpc, and people like him, overlook is this: the Denver Broncos have played the 7th most difficult schedule in the league thus far this year as ranked by Sagarin, compared to the 3rd easiest schedule last year. There's no point in arguing with someone who cannot see the significance of this.

bpc wants the best for this team. He loves cheering for a winning team. He knows football well and sees a lot of fault with what is going on. The way he expresses it rubs people wrong, but there is a lot of truth in what he says... you just have to get around the embellished grades that rusult from his high emotion.

We fix the Kyle Orton issue and this team is on the fast track to representing the AFC in the Superbowl. It may not happen this year b/c there are a lot of holes that need plugging and we may be able to get by with Orton, but McD has to realize that we won't be in this position (top 10-12) draft pick to make a difference in the future. If he wants a top signal caller its gonna have to happen now.

Garcia Bronco
12-29-2009, 02:31 PM
Yep, bpc and broncodouche7 are doomsayers.

My biggest disagreement is with the "future" of this team.....I think it is very bright. McD took a trashy roster and started us 6-0 with COACHING. But as most know, by midseason, teams figure you out, and the lack of talent becomes apparent. Well, guess what? Most of that is attibutable to the previous regime.

How can anyone honestly expect a new coach to have tremendous success in his first year when trying to implement a new system on BOTH sides of the ball, with players that don't fit his system?

And the biggest point.....do you all remember that this year Denver was saddled with the MOST DEAD CAP SPACE OF ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE?!?! OVER 30 MILLION!! Again, thanks Shanny.

Next year most of this will free up and we should be in a great cap situation.....for this reason alone I think the future is VERY BRIGHT!

BPC and broncodouche7 are just Shanny/Cutler widows.....which I will always find peculiar...b/c where do they think the team was going under them?? You are always whining about the fact we didn't improve late in the season under McD.......well what the **** were we doing under Shanny?!?! ****ing hypocrites.....all of you.

Go eat a bag of d1cks!

I agree. I think the future is very bright. Plus the brutal schedule.

bpc
12-29-2009, 02:33 PM
I don't really disagree with any of this, but we aren't going to be able to get good WR, QB and OL talent in the early rounds of this draft without neglecting the defense.

I think it will be a couple more years before we can even pretend to have an elite team on the field without some major FA and draft hits this offseason.

Good point. There are a lot of potential holes on this roster which makes it tough to figure out what to do. The offense needs talent worse, but the defense is aging. 1st thing to do is figure out, what is going to be the identity of this team. Offense or defense? I think the defense can put together a very solid season again next year, with Nolan's coaching but we're going to start losing ground in the trenches and teams are going to key on Elvis, should he be back.

Free Agency will tell us a lot about what we want to do... I think we should key on some guys like Chester Taylor, Logan Mankins, Abrayo Franlin, and Richard Seymore to set ourselves up right.

Then again, who knows what McD has planned for the future of this roster? We all thought Jay was untouchable last offseason. What's to say that McD doesn't go offering Ryan Clady and Brandon Marshall off for draft picks? I could see that scenario happening.

This offseason is going to be interesting. I'm not down on all he guys we got. I'm probably more positive about rookies like Robert Ayers than most.

Broncoman13
12-29-2009, 02:33 PM
55 brought up a pretty good point. When you look at the success several teams have had with new coaches, it goes down to just a few key pieces added here and there.

In Miami they added Pennington, went to a 3-4 defense, and added a few scheme gimmicks that really surprised some teams. By and large though, that team didn't have to go through a major overhaul, not like that of the Broncos. Same thing with the Falcons. They added a QB in the draft and a stud RB in Turner. The Ravens added a stud QB in the draft, and depended on an already established defense and complimentary running game. The common theme for all of these teams was stellar QB play and good running game. We've been inconsistent in both areas. I'm a true believer in the QB can make the Running game more effective by making a defense account for him at all times. DEs don't have to maintain the edge against us when we get in obvious passing downs b/c Orton isn't going to try to move around much. Same on 3rd and short. There is NO chance at a rollout for a first down and play action isn't effective b/c the QB literally gets scared at the first sign of pressure.

Tombstone RJ
12-29-2009, 02:34 PM
1. Acquisitions FA/Draft: B

McD is in year one of a complete overhaul of the offense and defense and he's moving to a base 3-4 defense and a Spread Offense which require real and substantial changes. His FA acquisitions on the defense have been very solid and the defense is actually respectable and it is a turnover machine. Kudos to McD and Nolan for making this defense much better in a shor amount of time. As for the offense, I've said in the past that it takes much longer for an offense to gell than a defense to gell and I'm not suprised it's strugling to score points. The running game is a mess and the passing game is predictable. McD needs more time to get this unit together but once it gets going, it should be able to move the ball AND score.

Draft picks were taken based on the schemes and since this team is still in a transition from Shanny to McD then I'm going to give them more than this year to judge if they are good or bad. Certainly, Smith has been a disappointment and Quinn has not done much either. However, I'm going to withhold judgement on guys like Moreno and Ayers until the schemes are fully in place and the players are in place that fit the schemes (offensive line and defensive line, for example).

2. Offensive/Defensive Scheme & Philosophy: B

I don't like the fact that the ZBS is being 86ed in order to power run. That being said once the running game gets going, this offense should be very hard to stop. As for the defense, it's better and it's going to keep getting better. After years of futility under Shanny, I really don't have any complaints.

4. Use of Roster Talent: C

I don't think McD is getting the best use out of the current talent on this team. I don't know if this is because the Broncos are moving to the Spread Offense and a base 3-4 or because he just does not have faith in certain plays and certain players. It is frustrating to watch the running game. It is fustrating to watch Orton sometimes. It is frustrating to watch the Broncos not convert on 3rd downs. It is frustrating to watch guys like Scheffler and Hillis and Royal go either unused or underused. That being said, who knows why this is happening. It is frustrating to watch, no doubt.

5. Intangibles: A

McD is a firey young coach with a plan and the will and dedication to see the plan through. He's got the "it" factor when it comes to coaching. Like him or hate him, he's not intimidated by the NFL.

6. Results: A

This team was slammed in the off season by all the "experts" and many of those self proclaimed experts predicted this would be THE WORST TEAM IN THE NFL.

Wrong.

McD made the most of a very disfunctional team, period. Cutler was a prima donna who forced his way out. Many people thought he made the bears an immediate SB contendar. The were wrong, very wrong.

The disfunction of the "team" was the result of a Shanahan system that had grown old and stale. As much as I admire Shanny for the SB rings and the stability he brought to the front office, he allowed the team to become clickish and immature. He basically ignored the defense and he got fired for it.

McD stepped into a a cancerous locker room situation that was polarized. When Cutler disrespected the owner, the owner told McD to get rid of him. Good riddance I say.

Football is a team sport. McD understands this. He has the ability to build something great. He's young, energetic, excited, motivated and extremely smart. I'm very excited that he's our coach.


7. Future: A

The future looks good IMHO. Take that however you want to.

8. Overall Grade - A-/B+

In the most tumultuous off season in the last 25 years, McD has managed to win at least 8 games. This offseason is not so much a reflection of McD's mistakes, as it is a reflection of Shanahan's grip on the team.

Anyone who deny's this is just well, not so smart, IMHO.

Really, give McD some credit for taking over a disfunctional team that had prima donnas on offense and a total crapfest on defense. He came in, kicked some ass and got this team on a winning streak right out of the gate. The players love him (including BMarsh, which says a lot) and they play hard for the guy. He wants to win, and he's doing it the only way he knows how: full steam ahead!

bpc
12-29-2009, 02:35 PM
bpc wants the best for this team. He loves cheering for a winning team. He knows football well and sees a lot of fault with what is going on. The way he expresses it rubs people wrong, but there is a lot of truth in what he says... you just have to get around the embellished grades that rusult from his high emotion.

We fix the Kyle Orton issue and this team is on the fast track to representing the AFC in the Superbowl. It may not happen this year b/c there are a lot of holes that need plugging and we may be able to get by with Orton, but McD has to realize that we won't be in this position (top 10-12) draft pick to make a difference in the future. If he wants a top signal caller its gonna have to happen now.

What embelishment? :)

ON a side note, the offensive playcalling has been horrible this year. I don't know if McD is handicapped with Orton or not, but that needs to seriously improve.

TonyR
12-29-2009, 02:35 PM
Plus the brutal schedule.

Yup. And what's sad is if this team didn't botch the Washington and Oakland games they would've won 11 games, assuming we beat KC this week. Those two losses are killers.

Stormontheplains
12-29-2009, 02:37 PM
Better defense than the year before
Same offense

Same Result-- Shanny won 8 with the worst D in NFL history, Mcd will 1+ him. I would say coaching has alot to be desired.

Broncoman13
12-29-2009, 02:38 PM
PS, for anyone that has had issues "losing" posts when the site crashes or whatever... Always press CTRL+A then CTRL+C prior to posting. If it crashes, you simply open it back up, go to a new message box and press CTRL+Z to paste it back in. It takes about 3 seconds to hit CTRL+A then CTRL+C to copy all of your post. That's what I do now anyhow.

Broncoman13
12-29-2009, 02:39 PM
What embelishment? :)

ON a side note, the offensive playcalling has been horrible this year. I don't know if McD is handicapped with Orton or not, but that needs to seriously improve.

The F for use of personnel and then you turn around and talk about how many missing pieces we have... If we had the pieces he would of used them numbskull!

Broncoman13
12-29-2009, 02:40 PM
Better defense than the year before
Same offense

Same Result-- Shanny won 8 with the worst D in NFL history, Mcd will 1+ him. I would say coaching has alot to be desired.

Insert "Strength of Schedule" comment here...

dbfan21
12-29-2009, 02:41 PM
Yup. And what's sad is if this team didn't botch the Washington and Oakland games they would've won 11 games, assuming we beat KC this week. Those two losses are killers.

Preach it brutha!! I still can't believe we lost those two. Damn...

jhns
12-29-2009, 02:43 PM
Free Agency: A+
It is crazy how many FAs we brought in that have worked out. With the money we spend on FAs every offseason, this could be very good. If we had half this success with FAs under Shanahan, we would have another SB or two.

Draft: Way to early to judge but so far I give it a D.
We had five picks in the first two rounds. I expected to see a lot more from those rounds than we have. Again though, this is far to early to say. If we don't have at least 3 future full time starters from those 5 picks, there is no way I could give a higher grade.

Defensive Coaching: A
Nolan gets a lot out of the talent he has to work with. I think we will turn into a great defense if we keep Nolan around for a while and get him more talent to work with.

Offensive Coaching: N/A
I don't know what to say about this. McDaniels is not using all of the weapons on this side of the ball and he isn't playing them to their strengths. I will wait to judge his offensive coaching until after this next offseason. I would like to see what he can do when he finishes getting his players. Our current rosters strengths don't really go with his system and I don't expect him to run a different system. The biggest worry I have at this point is that he likes average QBs like Shanny liked average RBs just because their systems can make them look alright.

Overall: N/A
The season isn't over so I can't give an overall grade on the year. It will be far different if we win this week compared to if we lose.

Future: N/A
I don't think I can give the future a grade until I see what we do this offseason. We still have a lot of weaknesses and McDaniels has to rebuild the offense now that we know the o-line has no chance in the new scheme. I can't give a grade because we have multiple things that concern me but at the same time, this staff hasn't had the time to address them all.

If I was running the show, I would go for a QB, C, LG, and a couple of front 7 players. We need depth at most positions so that is just what I think we need in starters. I don't know who the weak links are in the front 7 so I don't have specific guys I want replaced. Our run defense needs work though and I think it is clear we need another playmaker or two in the front 7. The center and left guard are not getting it done and I think everyone agrees we need new players here.

Broncoman13
12-29-2009, 02:46 PM
Free Agency: A+
It is crazy how many FAs we brought in that have worked out. With the money we spend on FAs every offseason, this could be very good. If we had half this success with FAs under Shanahan, we would have another SB or two.

Draft: Way to early to judge but so far I give it a D.
We had five picks in the first two rounds. I expected to see a lot more from those rounds than we have. Again though, this is far to early to say. If we don't have at least 3 future full time starters from those 5 picks, there is no way I could give a higher grade.

Defensive Coaching: A
Nolan gets a lot out of the talent he has to work with. I think we will turn into a great defense if we keep Nolan around for a while and get him more talent to work with.

Offensive Coaching: N/A
I don't know what to say about this. McDaniels is not using all of the weapons on this side of the ball and he isn't playing them to their strengths. I will wait to judge his offensive coaching until after this next offseason. I would like to see what he can do when he finishes getting his players. Our current rosters strengths don't really go with his system and I don't expect him to run a different system. The biggest worry I have at this point is that he likes average QBs like Shanny liked average RBs just because their systems can make them look alright.

Overall: N/A
The season isn't over so I can't give an overall grade on the year. It will be far different if we win this week compared to if we lose.

Future: N/A
I don't think I can give the future a grade until I see what we do this offseason. We still have a lot of weaknesses and McDaniels has to rebuild the offense now that we know the o-line has no chance in the new scheme.

If I was running the show, I would go for a QB, C, LG, and a couple of front 7 players. We need depth at most positions so that is just what I think we need in starters. I don't know who the weak links are in the front 7 so I don't have specific guys I want replaced. Our run defense needs work though and I think it is clear we need another playmaker or two in the front 7. The center and left guard are not getting it done and I think everyone agrees we need new players here.

Good post.

steeledude
12-29-2009, 02:47 PM
It's just an opinion. Care to refute or post your thoughts?

It's about as accurate a description as I've seen about our season. It's honest, and I think a lot of fans don't want honesty right now. You don't want to believe that after you fire your hall of fame coach that you're going to spiral down. You want to believe you've found a new improved young mastermind. That's what's been going on with Broncos fans.

TonyR
12-29-2009, 02:48 PM
I still can't believe we lost those two. Damn...

Particularly the Oakland game. At home against bad team starting a backup QB. No excuses to lose that game, one of the easiest of a very difficult schedule. Ruined the season. Awful.

steeledude
12-29-2009, 02:49 PM
this is comedy............. we are going to finish with 9 wins

almost made the playoffs

beat the chargers, cowboys and patriots

all the haters were saying 3 to 6 wins max

you guys are so funny.............

Our record is no better than it has been, the strongest aspects of our team are aged 30+ years. We have very little young talent showing us anything. And McD has been stubborn when it comes to changing his gameplan. He came in with a solid plan early on to mask Orton's limitations, and some things worked early, now he has some validation that he does in fact know everything. So he won't change. Despite the walls crumbling around him. It's not that uncommon in young men, he'll look back on his coaching days in Denver someday as a great learning period.

We'll look back on it as a huge rip off.

bowtown
12-29-2009, 02:50 PM
It's about as accurate a description as I've seen about our season. It's honest, and I think a lot of fans don't want honesty right now. You don't want to believe that after you fire your hall of fame coach that you're going to spiral down. You want to believe you've found a new improved young mastermind. That's what's been going on with Broncos fans.

I'm sorry I didn't realize going from 8-8 to 9-7 was spiraling down.

Popps
12-29-2009, 02:55 PM
I'm sorry I didn't realize going from 8-8 to 9-7 was spiraling down.

I also didn't realize we were "through year one" yet.

elsid13
12-29-2009, 02:56 PM
Yep, bpc and broncodouche7 are doomsayers.

My biggest disagreement is with the "future" of this team.....I think it is very bright. McD took a trashy roster and started us 6-0 with COACHING. But as most know, by midseason, teams figure you out, and the lack of talent becomes apparent. Well, guess what? Most of that is attibutable to the previous regime.

How can anyone honestly expect a new coach to have tremendous success in his first year when trying to implement a new system on BOTH sides of the ball, with players that don't fit his system?

And the biggest point.....do you all remember that this year Denver was saddled with the MOST DEAD CAP SPACE OF ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE?!?! OVER 30 MILLION!! Again, thanks Shanny.

Next year most of this will free up and we should be in a great cap situation.....for this reason alone I think the future is VERY BRIGHT!

BPC and broncodouche7 are just Shanny/Cutler widows.....which I will always find peculiar...b/c where do they think the team was going under them?? You are always whining about the fact we didn't improve late in the season under McD.......well what the **** were we doing under Shanny?!?! ****ing hypocrites.....all of you.

Go eat a bag of d1cks!


Let be fair, most of that dead space came from McDaniels decision to remove Bly and Cutler. Shanahan left the cap in good shape. McDaniels made the decision to cut/trade certain players that result in most of the cap problem.

steeledude
12-29-2009, 02:58 PM
I'm sorry I didn't realize going from 8-8 to 9-7 was spiraling down.

I'll say it again, a strong start is good and all, but teams figured McD and his QB out and he has NOTHING to change it. If this continues next year (which it might, McD might look at Ortons stats and say 'he's the one!') then we're going to have a rough year.

Mangina went 9-7 his first year. Mike Shanahan went 9-7 2 years ago. A one win improvement with all the huge moves we made is not good.

Popps
12-29-2009, 02:59 PM
I hate to be a debbie downer =

:rofl:

Riiiiight.



we sacrificed a potentially great offense

Whatever. We "sacrificed" nothing. We had a trash QB and a middle of the pack scoring offense.

We had the worst D in the conference, if not the league.

We've got a quality D and balance, and we stay in games with great teams late in the season... when last year we would have been blown out.

We've sacrificed nothing, and instead are seeing the foundation of a complete team being built.

Oh, and we'll have a better record.


(And still may make the playoffs.)


Chris, we get it. You're a bitter man. Do you need to remind us every 15 minutes? You know you're in the minority. Pitching a hissy-fit over and over won't change that.

55CrushEm
12-29-2009, 03:02 PM
I'm sorry I didn't realize going from 8-8 to 9-7 was spiraling down.

Exactly. Especially with a new coach, new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme, etc. Honest to god, what the **** do some of these widow morons expect? I just don't get the "we didn't improve under McD this year" venom....yet, when we hadn't improved under Shanny for 10 years that's somehow ok....b/c we won a Superbowl 11 years ago.

go_broncos
12-29-2009, 03:02 PM
The defining moment is the way we allowed russell to score a TD and lost to OAK.
It ruined the season completly.It reminded me of 08 team.
Right now, I will grade as C as it is Mcd's first year.

People say we will be 9-7 at the end of the season.That's fine..But, we won only 3 games out of 10 and that's horrible.

I don't want to name them.Many here told that we are not like last year and this team will finish strong after 6-0 start.

Unfortunately, it is not correct and we are the same team(can't win games in Nov/Dec).

bowtown
12-29-2009, 03:03 PM
I'll say it again, a strong start is good and all, but teams figured McD and his QB out and he has NOTHING to change it. If this continues next year (which it might, McD might look at Ortons stats and say 'he's the one!') then we're going to have a rough year.

Mangina went 9-7 his first year. Mike Shanahan went 9-7 2 years ago. A one win improvement with all the huge moves we made is not good.

You mean like turning over our coaching staff and implementing entirely new systems on both sides of the ball changing our QB, gutting our starting defensive roster, all while playing a much harder schedule... those "big moves?" I guess you and I are just going to have to disagree then.

bpc
12-29-2009, 03:41 PM
:rofl:

Riiiiight.



Whatever. We "sacrificed" nothing. We had a trash QB and a middle of the pack scoring offense.

We had the worst D in the conference, if not the league.

We've got a quality D and balance, and we stay in games with great teams late in the season... when last year we would have been blown out.

We've sacrificed nothing, and instead are seeing the foundation of a complete team being built.

Oh, and we'll have a better record.


(And still may make the playoffs.)


Chris, we get it. You're a bitter man. Do you need to remind us every 15 minutes? You know you're in the minority. Pitching a hissy-fit over and over won't change that.

I'm just wondering how you can call Cutler trash when he had improved every year he's been in the league going into his third full season and had a pro bowl to his credit?

The offense was going to benefit from another year playing together and we probably could have found a consistent HB during this season, probably Peyton Hillis. Things don't come together in a day. You don't think they would have improved this year?

Now we have questions at QB, HB, WR, OL, DL, LB and age concerns with the DB's.

Care to refute any of these positions?

Keep in mind, the goal in the NFL is to make the playoffs and win the super bowl. Most likely Orton won't make the playoffs, and even if he did, would he outduel Manning, Palmer, Brady or Rivers when he gets there with his limited skillset? Not likely.

bombay
12-29-2009, 03:48 PM
I'd give the new staff about a B overall. Created a defense where there was none out of pieced together parts. Offense suffered from a lack of imagination/willingness to take a chance now and then. Special teams still not special.

And one more guy with an agenda to iggy.

Blueflame
12-29-2009, 05:03 PM
I'm sorry I didn't realize going from 8-8 to 9-7 was spiraling down.

I'm sorry... I didn't realize we'd already beaten the Chiefs. :P

(the way this team has played in recent weeks, I do not believe the win is a "given" and the football gods are often unamused by the counting of chickens before they're hatched. If we lose Sunday, I'm blaming you. LOL)

Inkana7
12-29-2009, 05:05 PM
bpc: D for Douche

Popps
12-29-2009, 05:07 PM
I'm just wondering how you can call Cutler trash when he had improved every year he's been in the league going into his third full season and had a pro bowl to his credit? .

He was 2nd in INTs last year... and first this year.

He's trash.

When he's not, I'll alert you.

Mr.Meanie
12-29-2009, 05:16 PM
I'm just wondering how you can call Cutler trash when he had improved every year he's been in the league going into his third full season and had a pro bowl to his credit?

The offense was going to benefit from another year playing together and we probably could have found a consistent HB during this season, probably Peyton Hillis. Things don't come together in a day. You don't think they would have improved this year?

Now we have questions at QB, HB, WR, OL, DL, LB and age concerns with the DB's.

Care to refute any of these positions?

Keep in mind, the goal in the NFL is to make the playoffs and win the super bowl. Most likely Orton won't make the playoffs, and even if he did, would he outduel Manning, Palmer, Brady or Rivers when he gets there with his limited skillset? Not likely.

At the end of last year we had questions at CB, SS, FS, LB, DE, DT, HB, K and P.

At the end of this year we have questions at P, OL and CB depth. The only question at QB is how big of a contract he'll sign and which round we'll draft a 3rd string QB. At WR our main concern is Stokely retiring and possibly getting a dynamic playmaker opposite Marshall.

If you can't seriously see this team is much improved, and was a few yards and a 3 & 25 stop away from possibly 11-5 (nevermind new schemes, coaching, QB, and brutal schedule and all), well then there's really no point of discussing it further.

DrFate
12-29-2009, 05:16 PM
I liked the board better when it was cool to have football conversations.

You and me both.

misturanderson
12-29-2009, 05:29 PM
I'm just wondering how you can call Cutler trash when he had improved every year he's been in the league going into his third full season and had a pro bowl to his credit?

If there is one thing that Cutler has absolutely NOT done, it's get better every year.

He improved from year 1 to 2, then regressed from 2 to 3 and 3 to 4.

And you're going to say: "but he had way better numbers in his 3rd year compared to his 2nd." That's simply not true. His stats increased due to increased numbers of passes, but his completion percentage got worse, TD:Int ratio stayed the same, TD % got worse, his QB rating got worse, all the while being behind the best pass blocking Oline in the league last year and with a cakewalk schedule.

Cutler has not improved in 2 of his 3 offseasons, but has regressed.

Mediator12
12-29-2009, 05:30 PM
I'll say this again. The last 6-7 weeks of the season in the NFL, the players make the biggest difference and not the scheme or coaching. The reason this team fades down the stretch is that it still lacks character and personnel. The teams on the hot streaks to end the season are the ones with the top personnel. SD, PHI, PIT, NE and INDY always finish strong because they have the best rosters. The biggest difference this year is the major injuries those teams have had. They are not finishing as strong because they all have major injuries to star/key players.

As for the regime grades, I'll wait to the end of the year to do them. I know you want to talk football bpc, but the year is not over yet. Patience my friend. Let's see how this all plays out first.

Popps
12-29-2009, 05:32 PM
Now we have questions at QB, HB, WR, OL, DL, LB and age concerns with the DB's.
Care to refute any of these positions?
.

Sure... no problem,,,,


QB - We have one with a history of winning and helping average teams succeed. We'll build around him as we look for a QOTF.

HB - Very productive combo when the line does its job. Maybe look for a replacement for Buck if he can't stay healthy.

WR - You obviously re-sign Marshall. Royal will continue to develop. Gaffney will keep a role, and McKinley has shown skills when given the chance.

OL - Yes. Major needs. At least two new starters.

DL - Solid group. We should continue to add depth and bulk up front.

LB - Ayers is improving. Davis will remain a force against the run. DJ is what he is. I'm definitely in favor of drafting an ILB to develop. (A true ILB, not a weak side 4-3 guy pretending to be an inside guy.)

DBs - Carter and Smith will continue to develop. Champ will start next season. Dawkins has played as much as most safeties in the league and will be back. Hill is solid. McBath and Bruton have been drafted to develop.

There you go. A (likely) 9-7, borderline playoff team with a few issues to address to get to the next level.

Pretty damned encouraging if you ask me.

So, forgive the rest of us if we're not miserable, Chris. Most of us have no desire to go back to a ****-can defense, Bob Slowick, the league interception leader and a marginal scoring offense.

Things change, Chris. Get over it. 10 years... 1 playoff win..

We're moving on. You should try it.

steeledude
12-29-2009, 05:33 PM
You mean like turning over our coaching staff and implementing entirely new systems on both sides of the ball changing our QB, gutting our starting defensive roster, all while playing a much harder schedule... those "big moves?" I guess you and I are just going to have to disagree then.

Yeah...those huge moves. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

steeledude
12-29-2009, 05:35 PM
He wasn't 2nd in INTs last year... and first this year.

He's trash.

When he's not, I'll alert you.

What are you a garbage man? We don't need your waste disposal wisdom as a metaphor/analogy/literal interpretation of why your feelings are hurt because a young pro bowl QB turned on us.

I could be mad too, but I'm not going to mask the truth with bitter feelings. We lost out on that deal.

misturanderson
12-29-2009, 05:36 PM
Yeah...those huge moves. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Then there is no reason to even talk to you because you obviously don't know how football works.

Mr.Meanie
12-29-2009, 05:37 PM
What are you a garbage man? We don't need your waste disposal wisdom as a metaphor/analogy/literal interpretation of why your feelings are hurt because a young pro bowl QB turned on us.

I could be mad too, but I'm not going to mask the truth with bitter feelings. We lost out on that deal.

That's rich, coming from someone who literally gave up on the team before the season started. Ha!

DrFate
12-29-2009, 05:37 PM
As far as the original poster...

The offense has taken a hefty step backwards. My biggest worry is that a guy who really played well as a rookie (Royal) has been made irrelevant in this new offense. With skill players like Marshall/Royal/Scheffler and a host of decent (if not terribly exciting) backs - this offense should be explosive and consistent. It isn't.

The defense is improved. The FA have made a bigger impact than I would have expected, but the strength of the team (the defensive backfield) is the oldest unit on the team. That's a concern. I am glad to see Dummerville get his due, however.

Certain wins (notably the Giants) don't look nearly as impressive now as they did at the time. And getting man-handled by teams like BAL is bad - but getting beaten by teams that have simply given up (like WAS) is probably worse. This team simply wasn't ready to play in a lot of games.

The team played down to its competition quite often, and bled out as the season closed. That isn't a recipe for future success.

I give McDaniels props for winning more games than I predicted - but the results are basically the same. And players like Bailey are a year older.

Popps
12-29-2009, 05:42 PM
I could be mad too, but I'm not going to mask the truth with bitter feelings. We lost out on that deal.

Cutler "turning on us" was the best thing that could have happened to this team.

He's a fuggin' loser. If you want to ride his jock, go over to the Bears board.

They're used to losers over there.

gtown
12-29-2009, 06:14 PM
McD sucks. We haven't won a playoff game all year.

And nobody puts Baby Hillis in a corner! Nobody!

mattob14
12-29-2009, 06:15 PM
Good point. There are a lot of potential holes on this roster which makes it tough to figure out what to do. The offense needs talent worse, but the defense is aging. 1st thing to do is figure out, what is going to be the identity of this team. Offense or defense? I think the defense can put together a very solid season again next year, with Nolan's coaching but we're going to start losing ground in the trenches and teams are going to key on Elvis, should he be back.

Free Agency will tell us a lot about what we want to do... I think we should key on some guys like Chester Taylor, Logan Mankins, Abrayo Franlin, and Richard Seymore to set ourselves up right.

Then again, who knows what McD has planned for the future of this roster? We all thought Jay was untouchable last offseason. What's to say that McD doesn't go offering Ryan Clady and Brandon Marshall off for draft picks? I could see that scenario happening.

This offseason is going to be interesting. I'm not down on all he guys we got. I'm probably more positive about rookies like Robert Ayers than most.

I really believe this is the key to a successful future. And it's not just offense or defense, but what kind of offense are we running? Right now we have a lot of pieces that don't fit together all that well on offense.

Orton needs a big o-line to keep a clean pocket and a power running attack to take the heat off of him. If you can do this, I think he can be an effective game manager. Unfortunately, we have a small o-line from the Shanny era that consistently allows a push right up the middle of the field. Orton doesn't have the ability to elude defenders or move the pocket, making him largely ineffective against that pass rush. We also have a RB in Moreno who looks to be a guy who would be most effective in a ZBS or spread offense, where he has more space to operate and his vision will be better utilized.

So how would I fix it? You have to start at QB. I'd take a long look at Bradford if he's there in round 1. If not, or there are lingering concerns about the shoulder, I think the team HAS to take one in the 3rd or 4th round. Other than that, I'd grab one of the C's who should be there in round 2 (Tenant, O'Dowd, Pouncey, Walton), and continue to focus on improving the depth and quality of the DL. We won't see immediate contributions from most of these picks, as QB, OL, and DL may be the three positions that require the longest transition period, but I do think this lays a solid foundation for the future, and should pay dividends as soon as 2011.

TonyR
12-29-2009, 06:25 PM
...but getting beaten by teams that have simply given up (like WAS) is probably worse.

Actually, the Skins were playing pretty good football up until the last few weeks. After beating Denver at home they lost @ Dallas by 1, @ Phila by 3, then in OT by 3 to the Saints.

Archer81
12-29-2009, 06:31 PM
Ray Rice has said rookies train for the combine, and not for football. The biggest jump players have is between year 1 and 2. Rice himself is an example of this. Last season he carried it 107 times for 454 yards, 0 tds. He caught the ball 33 times for 273 yards and no tds. This season he's rushed it 240 times, 1269 yards, 7 tds, has 74 rec for 683 yards and a td. I believe the same statistical jump will occur for Moreno, with marked improvement from Ayres and Smith. We could also see Brandstater move up to number 2 on the depth chart.

If I was grading this team on a 100 point scale, I'd give them a 78/100. I do think McDaniels playcalling needs to be refined, but its to be expected from a first year HC with players not entirely familiar with what he wants to do. The lines need to get bigger and more physical. The theme seems to be having a team capable of lining up and doing different things week to week. That takes time to develop the roster for players capable of doing that on a consistent basis. The future of this team is bright. They have holes (no team is without them) but nothing so drastic it cannot be fixed. Seriously, our defense went from 30th in the NFL a season ago to 6th in one year. There is no reason to believe it cant happen for the offense next year.

:Broncos:

Kaylore
12-29-2009, 06:57 PM
What a fail thread.

How about what Shanahan left McDaniels with?

Turnover QB machine: Grade this year - D

Tiny offensive line: Grade this year C

Worst defense in Broncos History: Grade last year - F-

Perennially crappy special teams: Grade last year D+

Offense this year: C-, considering all the overhaul he did alright but obviously we need to get better.

Special Teams: C+, there is life there. We drafted some guys to move forward and improve this position.

Defense: B+ Pretty freaking awesome step up from the crap we would have had to under Shanahan/Slowick another year. Light years improved.

Difficulty of Schedule this year over last year is light years different. I think McDaniels is victim of his own early success. Another year for him to make corrections and tweak the team to his desires is in order. If at the end of next year we're still sitting at 8 wins then talk of firing him can be entertained reasonably. However considering the garbage he was left to play with and he installed a new system at all three levels. I'll take 8-9 wins.

Frankly most of you would have done so at the beginning of the year. I can't wait to bust out all the posts I have saved of all the people predicting 2-3 wins and one of the "worst teams" to ever step on field. Predicitions of never being in any game and getting blown out at home to the Browns. Now we fielded a still in transition, yet competitive team and people are still b****ing about Shanahan. Do you people really think this team needed 26 interceptions this year and Bob Slowick calling plays on defense? Is that honestly what you believe would have taken us to the next level?

My grade for BPC's post: D-

My grade for the boner he was for Shanuntler: A

yavoon
12-29-2009, 07:09 PM
Ray Rice has said rookies train for the combine, and not for football. The biggest jump players have is between year 1 and 2. Rice himself is an example of this. Last season he carried it 107 times for 454 yards, 0 tds. He caught the ball 33 times for 273 yards and no tds. This season he's rushed it 240 times, 1269 yards, 7 tds, has 74 rec for 683 yards and a td. I believe the same statistical jump will occur for Moreno, with marked improvement from Ayres and Smith. We could also see Brandstater move up to number 2 on the depth chart.

If I was grading this team on a 100 point scale, I'd give them a 78/100. I do think McDaniels playcalling needs to be refined, but its to be expected from a first year HC with players not entirely familiar with what he wants to do. The lines need to get bigger and more physical. The theme seems to be having a team capable of lining up and doing different things week to week. That takes time to develop the roster for players capable of doing that on a consistent basis. The future of this team is bright. They have holes (no team is without them) but nothing so drastic it cannot be fixed. Seriously, our defense went from 30th in the NFL a season ago to 6th in one year. There is no reason to believe it cant happen for the offense next year.

:Broncos:

and yet tons of runningbacks have huge rookie years.

Archer81
12-29-2009, 07:15 PM
and yet tons of runningbacks have huge rookie years.


Yup. and how many of those tons follow it up with a huge sophomore year?


:Broncos:

gyldenlove
12-29-2009, 07:26 PM
1. Draft: D-

Evaluating a draft after 1 year is not good science, but here is a stab at what we have seen so far: Moreno is not a game changer but looks like a guy who could be a nice player, his relative lack of success seems to have a lot to do with the combination of a QB who can't stretch the field and no reliable lead blocker, so he ends up running behind 7 blockers into a box of 8 defenders, that is never going to work.
Ayers is a pass rusher who has yet to produce a sack, that is not good - both Moss and Crowder managed to get sacks in their rookie years. Ayers has shown glimpses and had a few good plays against Philly where he managed to hurry Mcnabb and recover a fumble, but he has been consistently exposed in run defense and has cost us a number of big runs when he loses containment.
Smith cost a 1st round pick and has regressed all season as a defender, so much so that both Ty Law and Tony Carter who were free agents have taken his spot. Did show a little wiggle as a PR against the Eagles.
Mcbath had very limited face time, but looked good when asked to play, may be the best of the bunch.
Quinn has 1 good play which came on special teams, he hasn't helped out short yard run game and he hasn't been asked to run a single route - not good.
Olsen is sitting out and it is worrying me a bit that he is not even in the Hamilton - Hochstein trainwreck at LG.
Bruton is good on ST but has yet to get his shot at extended defense play.

With 5 picks in the two first rounds we picked up a safety who in limited time looked good and a RB who is looking very average and nobody else who has shown more than a few fleeting glimpses of good play.

2. FA: A-

No big signings that failed, a few smaller signings that worked very well. A good days work.

3. Defense: B

They have done a remarkable job turning around this unit. A few bad games knocks the grade down a bit and the Jafartuss TD still stings. The biggest needs for the defense seem to be OLB and CB.

4. Offense: D

For an offensive genious the output this year is not acceptable. The red zone offense is atrocious, the discipline is poor and the unit gets one dimensional too often relying on screens, quick passes or short crossing routes. It is obvious that MCdaniels doesn't trust Orton to throw it more than 10 yards and because of that the run game is pretty consistently facing 9 or 10 defenders within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.
Mcdaniels needs to cut Orton loose and either trust him to throw the ball deep so the run game will open up or not resign him and find a QB he does trust to open up the field - the current arrangement is not working at all.

5. Special teams: D

The punting has been more bad than good, the returns aside from the San Diego game have been pitiful and the complete meltdown that may have cost of the win against Washington was pathetic. Prater saves the day with some good kicking and more touchbacks than you can shake a stick at.

6. Record: C-/D-/F

C- if we go 9-7 and make the playoffs.
D- if we go 9-7 and do not make the playoffs.
F if we go 8-8 - not good enough for Shanny, not good enough for Mcdaniels.

7. Total: C-

The team isn't much improved, if any. The OL which was a stable is now barely an average unit, the QB position needs some work, the RB position is a work in progress especially with the two main backups being well passed 30, the WR position looks solid and the TE position is good. Overall the offense has regresset significantly compared to 2007.
The defense has improved as a whole, not least thanks to Nolan, CB is a major concern with 3 players well above 30 and a rookie who is regressing fast. Safety looks good both now and in the future headlined by recent probowler Dawkins. OLB is a major concern, Dumervil is good and improving, Haggan is good against the run but a nonfactor in the passing play in most situations, Ayers has yet to produce a sack or consistent good play. ILB is going to need some additions, Davis is good but not great, as is DJ Williams and Woodyard hasn't shown the consistency against the pass. DE is a rotation which is fine when we are relatively injury free, but a stud here would really solifidy the whole line. NT is pretty settled, Fields and Thomas rotating with Baker waiting in the wings.

In reality we are still a team that starts hot and then disintegrates faster than a PT Cruiser on a rainy day.

yavoon
12-29-2009, 08:42 PM
Yup. and how many of those tons follow it up with a huge sophomore year?


:Broncos:

your post: running backs aren't good their rookie year because they prepare for combine

my post:tons of running backs have very good rookie years

your post:yah but do they have good sophomore years tooo!?


and tbh i can't tell if you're asking a real question or if its rhetorical and you imagine you have the answer already.

maher_tyler
12-29-2009, 09:06 PM
Considering we were suppose to win 4-5 games max and finish at the bottom of the AFCW lets me know that this team has improved. I agree some of the play calling has been questionable. IMO, Orton has been holding the O back a bit. His lack of mobility, average-below average arm strength and acuracy and unable to go through his first couple of progressions leads me to believe this. The consecutive 3 and outs every week are also killer! He will most likely be signed to a 1 year deal while we groom Brandstater for the future!

As far as our rookies go..i was hoping to see more out of them. Moreno is about what i expected..he is leading all rookies in rushing yards!! Pretty good consdiering how many 8 man fronts we see. Nobody fears our deep threat..see paragraph above!

The biggest surprises so far have been Doom, Masrshall and Royal. I wasn't expexting any more than 10-12 sacks from doom..didn't think there was anyway possible Marshall gets over 75 catches with Orton throwing him the ball...thought Royal was going to have a much bigger role/impact in this offense than he has!!

My biggest disappointment at this point in the season is the penalties we take that kill drives, especially at this point in the season! The false starts and motion penalties are bone headed and should not still be happening in week 16!

Overall B...this team has gone above my expectations. If you would have told me we had a chance at making the playoffs at the end of the year i would have said your crazy!!

Archer81
12-29-2009, 09:14 PM
your post: running backs aren't good their rookie year because they prepare for combine

my post:tons of running backs have very good rookie years

your post:yah but do they have good sophomore years tooo!?


and tbh i can't tell if you're asking a real question or if its rhetorical and you imagine you have the answer already.


Not every rookie does well the first year, but follows it up the following year with big performances. That is what I was referring to.

:Broncos:

Taco John
12-29-2009, 09:36 PM
I had a ****ing long post lined up, but the God damn site always logs me out and times out. Piece of ****ing cock****.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2774/checkthis.gif

Taco John
12-29-2009, 09:57 PM
I'd like to give McDaniels a solid B, but presidng over what well may be the worse collapse in Broncos history has got to cost him points. We were 6-0, and if anybody said that we'd only win 2 of our next 9 games, they'd have been laughed off the Internet. A collapse like that has got to go towards poor coaching.

That said, I thought McD was solid at FA, though the draft was pretty weak. I'd have picked Moreno in the same spot, so it's hard for me to criticize that spot except to say that Moreno has underperformed to what I thought he would be.

The offensive scheme seems to be on pretty shaky ground right now, but it's just the first season. Hopefully we can keep Marshall around and build on that.

I'm disappointed that it used to be "The Queen Mum could break off 2000 yards in this system," and now it's "how can our first round running back be expected to have a single 100 yard game in this system?"

It's a mixed bag really. Some good. Some bad. But overall a fun season.

I'd grade the first season a solid C.

MaloCS
12-29-2009, 10:02 PM
Our record is no better than it has been, the strongest aspects of our team are aged 30+ years. We have very little young talent showing us anything. And McD has been stubborn when it comes to changing his gameplan. He came in with a solid plan early on to mask Orton's limitations, and some things worked early, now he has some validation that he does in fact know everything. So he won't change. Despite the walls crumbling around him. It's not that uncommon in young men, he'll look back on his coaching days in Denver someday as a great learning period.

We'll look back on it as a huge rip off.


DAMN! Great post!

Dagmar
12-29-2009, 10:41 PM
It's more like he set his unwavering bias the day we traded away his diabetic boyfriend.

Hilarious! ^5 LOL

DBroncos4life
12-29-2009, 11:38 PM
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2774/checkthis.gif

Firefox logs me off when I have that clicked on as well.

KevinJames
12-29-2009, 11:50 PM
Firefox logs me off when I have that clicked on as well.

http://www.goodlogo.com/images/logos/google_chrome_logo_3024.jpg

try it :thumbs:

DBroncos4life
12-29-2009, 11:54 PM
http://www.goodlogo.com/images/logos/google_chrome_logo_3024.jpg

try it :thumbs:

What is that Simon 2.0?

Taco John
12-30-2009, 01:27 AM
Firefox logs me off when I have that clicked on as well.

There's a plug-in jerking with the cookies then. I run a light version of firefox on a windows box, and have no problems keeping logged in. Nor IE or Chrome for that matter...

KevinJames
12-30-2009, 02:11 AM
What is that Simon 2.0?

Google Chrome

I use to be an avid Mozilla Firefox user but Google Chrome just seems faster and more efficient yet to really experience any problems with it yet.

rastaman
12-30-2009, 06:17 AM
objectivity of this post overall: F

You just wait until the conclusion of the 2010 season....BPC's post could become epic!

McD is still an un proven quanity at best. Save for his 6-0 start of which 3 or the 6 we could have lost, McD could have started out 3-3 and then proceeded to lose his next 4 games which would have put him 3-7!

You add in McD's of going 2-7 thus far and one can see that thus far our record should be 5-10! If we manage to lose against KC this week, then McD's first season will be an epic failure and meltdown as well.

Next year McD can ill-aford to allow the Broncos to slip to 6-10 or worst.

worm
12-30-2009, 06:18 AM
what is that simon 2.0?

lol

rastaman
12-30-2009, 06:32 AM
Yep, bpc and broncodouche7 are doomsayers.

My biggest disagreement is with the "future" of this team.....I think it is very bright. McD took a trashy roster and started us 6-0 with COACHING. But as most know, by midseason, teams figure you out, and the lack of talent becomes apparent. Well, guess what? Most of that is attibutable to the previous regime.

How can anyone honestly expect a new coach to have tremendous success in his first year when trying to implement a new system on BOTH sides of the ball, with players that don't fit his system?

And the biggest point.....do you all remember that this year Denver was saddled with the MOST DEAD CAP SPACE OF ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE?!?! OVER 30 MILLION!! Again, thanks Shanny.

Next year most of this will free up and we should be in a great cap situation.....for this reason alone I think the future is VERY BRIGHT!

BPC and broncodouche7 are just Shanny/Cutler widows.....which I will always find peculiar...b/c where do they think the team was going under them?? You are always whining about the fact we didn't improve late in the season under McD.......well what the **** were we doing under Shanny?!?! ****ing hypocrites.....all of you.

Go eat a bag of d1cks!

CRUSH....why can't you just post why you're full of optimism and tell why vs resorting to insulting fellow posters personally just b/c they gave their views, assessements and opinions that are opposite of yours?

I mean really.;)

rastaman
12-30-2009, 06:47 AM
Cutler "turning on us" was the best thing that could have happened to this team.

He's a fuggin' loser. If you want to ride his jock, go over to the Bears board.

They're used to losers over there.

Here you go AGAIN with your Homer version on Cutler while giving Bowlen and McDaniels a free pass on what really went down.

Cutler is no more a loser than you are a shill and homer on behalf of Bowlen and McDaniel's while using the excuse of a Fan as to why you're so one sidedly ignorant and arrogant with the positions you take.

Psssst! One can say both Bowlen and McD turned their backs on Cutler as well. Remember the Owner, the HC, and the players must learn to compromise for the the good of the team.

Spider
12-30-2009, 06:52 AM
......................

DrFate
12-30-2009, 07:15 AM
Actually, the Skins were playing pretty good football up until the last few weeks. After beating Denver at home they lost @ Dallas by 1, @ Phila by 3, then in OT by 3 to the Saints.

But remember - this is a lame duck coach calling plays for a lame duck quarterback. The season was over for the Skins once they emasculated Zorn in favor of Lewis.

Look at recent comments by Haynesorth.

This is a game the Broncos should have won.

DrFate
12-30-2009, 07:23 AM
Considering we were suppose to win 4-5 games max and finish at the bottom of the AFCW

Those prognostications were made AFTER hiring Sparky and AFTER he evicted Cutler.

You think Shanny/Cutler would have been predicted to win 4-5 games?

55CrushEm
12-30-2009, 07:41 AM
CRUSH....why can't you just post why you're full of optimism and tell why vs resorting to insulting fellow posters personally just b/c they gave their views, assessements and opinions that are opposite of yours?

I mean really.;)

I'm optimistic about this team for the following reasons:

1. McDaniels is a young energetic coach, and I think for someone his age, he has a tremendous football IQ.
2. His free agent acquisitions proved to be better in one season than most of Shanahan's busts (Dale Carter, Ihop, Travis Henry, etc....we all know the list)
3. His training camps aren't club meds, like Shanny's were....and that panned out for most of this season with FAR fewer injuries.
4. He has exceeded EVERYONE's expectations this year with a 9-7 record, despite implementing new systems on both sides of the ball.
5. I think with another offseason of getting players to fit our new systems, we will only get better.....and now my expectation are that we become a perennial playoff team starting in 2010.

There's more....but those are the basics......

So now, you tell me......why are "geniuses" like you a broncofraud7 so unwilling to give McDaniels a pass on his first year, but were so willing to be mired in mediocrity under Shanahan? Especially, since many first year head coaches don't do well PRECISELY because it takes more than one year to build your system....

I also ask again, would you have fired Belichick after his first season with the Pats? After all, he went 5-11. Why didn't we fire Shanny after his first season when HE went 8-8 and missed the playoffs? And Christ, Shanny had Elway, Sharpe, TD, etc. (AND he had worked with Elway previously).....and still went 8-8 with no playoffs.

You're a hypocrite.....and this is a major double-standard that I would just love for you to explain.....

WolfpackGuy
12-30-2009, 07:42 AM
My prediction was 5-11, so they exceeded expectations.

I didn't think the defense would make the jump it has made.

The offense was MUCH worse than I thought it would be.

TonyR
12-30-2009, 09:00 AM
This is a game the Broncos should have won.

Oh I agree. I just don't agree that we played a team that had quit at that point. They played a stretch of decent football, particularly defensively.

Mr.Meanie
12-30-2009, 09:20 AM
You just wait until the conclusion of the 2010 season....BPC's post could become epic!

McD is still an un proven quanity at best. Save for his 6-0 start of which 3 or the 6 we could have lost, McD could have started out 3-3 and then proceeded to lose his next 4 games which would have put him 3-7!

You add in McD's of going 2-7 thus far and one can see that thus far our record should be 5-10! If we manage to lose against KC this week, then McD's first season will be an epic failure and meltdown as well.

Next year McD can ill-aford to allow the Broncos to slip to 6-10 or worst.

Is this for real?

Playing the "what if" game, we could also have easily beaten the Raiders, Skins, Eagles and Colts and ended up at 13-3. A couple of plays made here and there and we could be the #2 seed, possibly #1 seed.

But go ahead and focus on the absolute worst case scenario and then call McD an epic failure.