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View Full Version : Orton statistically better than Cutler in 2009


Gort
12-28-2009, 12:45 AM
with essentially the same number of attempts (485 attempts for Orton vs 484 attempts for Cutler)

Orton:

304 completions at a 62.7% completion percentage
3371 yards
20 TD and 9 INT
sacked 27 times
89.3 rating

Cutler:

294 completions at a 60.7% completion percentage
3117 yards
19 TD and 25 INT
sacked 31 times
71.1 rating


Cutler will be able to pad his stats tonight unless he gets benched again, but the above comparison is the real apples to apples comparison because the sample size is essentially equal. after the MNF, it won't be.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2009/seasontype/2

my conclusion... the problems with the Broncos offense are not primarily due to the QB.

Gort
12-28-2009, 12:51 AM
ps - i'm surprised by this. i expected Cutler to put up better numbers than Orton, except for INTs. i always knew Cutler would throw more picks. ;)

Taco John
12-28-2009, 12:52 AM
Meh. Give Cutler Brandon Marshall and how do you think these stats would turn out?

Taco John
12-28-2009, 12:53 AM
...and Eddie Royal for that matter.

go_broncos
12-28-2009, 12:59 AM
Cutler sucks..That's the only good thing Mcd has done this season.

Williams
12-28-2009, 01:01 AM
Google knows:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/broncoking16/ortongoogle.jpg

Cue rastaman posting to defend baby Jay's honor in 3... 2....

Popps
12-28-2009, 01:03 AM
Meh. Give Cutler Brandon Marshall and how do you think these stats would turn out?

22 INTs?

Oh wait, that was last year.

Popps
12-28-2009, 01:06 AM
Quitler screws the pooch again this week, and he's in danger of a QB rating in the 60s for the SEASON. ****ing brutal.

A good game next week and Orton could be at 90.

Cutler has given the ball away 25 times, and fumbled 8. That's 33 times he's ****ed his team in a major way.

That's just staggering.

He has a realistic chance to end the season with 40 combined INTs/fumbles.

He may turn into something some day, but so far... he's been horrible. He was a false-idol in Denver and just pure trash in Chicago.

Gort
12-28-2009, 01:09 AM
Meh. Give Cutler Brandon Marshall and how do you think these stats would turn out?

who knows? what about Brady without Moss? or Manning without Wayne? all i know is that very near the end of the season, with an equal sample size, Orton has been better. that's surprising to me. i can't imagine anyone would have take that bet back in August. reminds me a bit of the 13-3 Plummer season, except for the 13-3 part (d'oh!).

Florida_Bronco
12-28-2009, 01:24 AM
Meh. Give Cutler Brandon Marshall and how do you think these stats would turn out?

We'll never know because Cutler is a traitor bitch.

colonelbeef
12-28-2009, 05:34 AM
Last year Orton had better stats than Brett Favre.

Who's better, Kyle Orton or Brett Favre? Think it has something to do with the team around them?

MplsBronco
12-28-2009, 05:37 AM
We'll never know because Cutler is a traitor b****.

Exactly, it was Cutler who chose to abandon this team and all the young talent surrounding him. Not the wisest of career choices, if you ask me. He's made his bed yet people are still trying to makes excuses for him. Sad and pathetic. But then again, it's not the first time TJ has been on the wrong side of a QB debate.

broncofan7
12-28-2009, 05:39 AM
What do we average AS A TEAM on a points per game basis DESPITE adding quality WR depth and a first round RB? 20.1 pts/game

Yeah--Orton is better for the Broncos than Cutler would have been ..........I am waiting for your punch line

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

CEH
12-28-2009, 06:26 AM
Last year 13 turnovers from the D
This year 34 turnovers from the D
Thats 2.5 more turnovers a game
I hate Jay for leaving but with that amount of turnovers Cutler leads us to more points.

Not once yesterday did I say our O was going to pull this out even after starting drives near midfield 4 times for 3 points.

The Joker
12-28-2009, 06:38 AM
Orton has been a better QB for us this year than Cutler was last year.

Cutler had a lot more yards, but he did throw the ball a lot more than Kyle has done this year. In terms of yards per passing attempt, Orton has 6.95 this year while Cutler had 7.35.

With the same amount of attempts this year as Cutler had last year, Orton would be on course for about 250 yards less than Cutler had in 08.

If we give Orton a 2 TD - 1 INT game next week, he comes out with 22 TD's and 10 INT's on the year.

I'll take that over 25 TD's and 18 INT's every day of the week, personally.

Running game was more effective last year as well... Of course, this was mostly due to the sheer terror teams had of playing Jay Cutler, which is why Chicago has had such a dominant running game this year as well.

Beantown Bronco
12-28-2009, 06:40 AM
Not once yesterday did I say our O was going to pull this out even after starting drives near midfield 4 times for 3 points.

Not even after they scored 17 unanswered pts to tie the game? Weird. Most of their victories early on in the season were come from behind victories. What short memories we have.

rastaman
12-28-2009, 06:57 AM
ps - i'm surprised by this. i expected Cutler to put up better numbers than Orton, except for INTs. i always knew Cutler would throw more picks. ;)

Meh! I thought after going 6-0 Orton's game management skills and ability just about guaranteed we make it to the playoffs!

CEH
12-28-2009, 06:58 AM
Not even after they scored 17 unanswered pts to tie the game? Weird. Most of their victories early on in the season were come from behind victories. What short memories we have.

What happend in week 4 and 5 doesn't really effect how I feel in week 16.
What I saw in Indy was more likely to happen than what happen in week 4.

rastaman
12-28-2009, 07:02 AM
What do we average AS A TEAM on a points per game basis DESPITE adding quality WR depth and a first round RB? 20.1 pts/game

Yeah--Orton is better for the Broncos than Cutler would have been ..........I am waiting for your punch line

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=SCORING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Orton maybe the first NFL QB to lead his team to a 6-0 start and not lead the team to the playoffs!

Notice how none of the homers aren't discussing this fact.

bronco militia
12-28-2009, 07:08 AM
this is what really sucks. McDaniels would have been good for Jay.

Beantown Bronco
12-28-2009, 07:10 AM
Orton maybe the first NFL QB to lead his team to a 6-0 start and not lead the team to the playoffs!

Notice how none of the homers aren't discussing this fact.

Because it has little to do with Orton. It's a TEAM game. And the team around him isn't playing nearly as well as they were during the 6-0 run. But he is actually playing better individually than he was for much of the 6-0 run.

Tombstone RJ
12-28-2009, 07:10 AM
These comparisons are getting old.

Who knows how good this offense could have been with Cutler? I mean really, why drive yourself insane trying to figure that out? Fact is, he's gone. He's signed a long term deal with the bears and he's going to either win or wallow there and there is nothing any of us can do about it.

As for Orton, he's better than many fans thought he was (just ask bears fans) but he's still not anywhere close to an elite QB. He's been a nice addition to a team in transition and I think it would be nice if posters here just admit how good he's been for this team, even with his flaws.

Cutler can be great, but he is the one holding himself back. It may take him another 3 years before he finally realizes that in order to win, he needs to put his ego aside and simply make his team better by not throwing INTs and by not forcing the ball. He's got the talent, he just doesn't have the mindset that a great QB needs in order to get his team to the SB.

Captain 'Dre
12-28-2009, 07:17 AM
Last year Orton had better stats than Brett Favre.

Who's better, Kyle Orton or Brett Favre? Think it has something to do with the team around them?

That, and the torn arm tendon Brett had last year! Ha!

Broncos_OTM
12-28-2009, 07:28 AM
Orton had a good year statistically. Which tells me he can get it done. One thing though we struggle in the redzone again. Our play selection sucks for the most part. We cannot run the ball. Moreno has regressed. We need to be able to run the ball and run it with authority. We need to get better on Defense as well. yes i know we are pretty damn good but there are a few things that we could do better. We need to get playoff expirence. Orton has horrible pocket awareness that is something we can help though with a better Offensive line. Situational football killed this team this year something Mcdaniels stressed.

Cito Pelon
12-28-2009, 07:41 AM
And Orton was statistically very similar to Cutler during their respective 2008 campaigns. One was better in some categories, the other better in some others. I guess the bottom line is when all is said and done - for me - I'd rather have Orton than Cutler.

oubronco
12-28-2009, 07:45 AM
It's pretty simple when the game is on the line and all you need to do is drive into field goal range Orton can't get it done and has proven he can't time after time

Beantown Bronco
12-28-2009, 07:48 AM
It's pretty simple when the game is on the line and all you need to do is drive into field goal range Orton can't get it done and has proven he can't time after time

He's actually proven the opposite.

Tombstone RJ
12-28-2009, 07:49 AM
It's pretty simple when the game is on the line and all you need to do is drive into field goal range Orton can't get it done and has proven he can't time after time

I agree to a certain extent, however the running game is really bad and if the defense does not respect the running game, then Orton is fighting an up hill battle.

But Orton's pocket presence leaves a lot to be desired. I get frustrated that he does not run for the first down when he can, and he gets sacked when he simply needs to step up in the pocket.

lostknight
12-28-2009, 07:54 AM
The problem with QB is a intangible, and probably due to the playcalling rather then orton - he is unable to maintain momentum. There was never a point this season where you saw two or three really good long drives down the field. The Broncos would catch randomly then disappear.

Would Cutler have been better? Probably, I for one think that Cutler would have been insanely effective in this offense, but it's water under the bridge. The trade benefited neither team.

rastaman
12-28-2009, 07:55 AM
Because it has little to do with Orton. It's a TEAM game. And the team around him isn't playing nearly as well as they were during the 6-0 run. But he is actually playing better individually than he was for much of the 6-0 run.

Then the same could be said about Cutler as well....CORRECT!

oubronco
12-28-2009, 07:57 AM
I agree to a certain extent, however the running game is really bad and if the defense does not respect the running game, then Orton is fighting an up hill battle.

But Orton's pocket presence leaves a lot to be desired. I get frustrated that he does not run for the first down when he can, and he gets sacked when he simply needs to step up in the pocket.

Exactly! If Orton runs for the first on 3rd and 2 with 10 yds in front of him it's a different ballgame

rastaman
12-28-2009, 08:00 AM
We'll never know because Cutler is a traitor b****.

Yep we will never know why both Bowlen and McD conspired together to trade Cutler for Cassel.

We will never know why after the Cassel trade fell thru and the last meeting btwn McD and Cutler that McDaniel's came off antagonizing and indifferent whether Cutler was in the Broncos future planes by boldly stating that he (McD) couldn't guarantee Cutler wouldn't be traded in the future!Ha!

So was Cutler the traitor or was McD treating him like chopped liver?:sunshine:

Beantown Bronco
12-28-2009, 08:00 AM
There was never a point this season where you saw two or three really good long drives down the field.

It amazes me how many people either didn't see or simply forget the NE game.

Tombstone RJ
12-28-2009, 09:59 AM
Yep we will never know why both Bowlen and McD conspired together to trade Cutler for Cassel.

We will never know why after the Cassel trade fell thru and the last meeting btwn McD and Cutler that McDaniel's came off antagonizing and indifferent whether Cutler was in the Broncos future planes by boldly stating that he (McD) couldn't guarantee Cutler wouldn't be traded in the future!Ha!

So was Cutler the traitor or was McD treating him like chopped liver?:sunshine:

McD was simply maintaining the balance of power on the team. You can't let the players dictate trades and who is going to be on the team and who is not.

Also, your the one who is interpreting that final meeting between Cutler and McD as antagonistic. If Cutler didn't like the fact that no player on the team was untouchable including himself, then that is his problem. Fact is, you can't let one player dictate policy for the entire team.

But you've never played football a day in your life, so you can't understand the "team first" mentality that a coach must enforce.

Florida_Bronco
12-28-2009, 10:11 AM
McD was simply maintaining the balance of power on the team. You can't let the players dictate trades and who is going to be on the team and who is not.

Also, your the one who is interpreting that final meeting between Cutler and McD as antagonistic. If Cutler didn't like the fact that no player on the team was untouchable including himself, then that is his problem. Fact is, you can't let one player dictate policy for the entire team.

But you've never played football a day in your life, so you can't understand the "team first" mentality that a coach must enforce.

It's not even worth debating anymore. Schefter, Wabbit and others all confirmed that we never attempted to trade Jay and we also have Jay's lies on record.

**** him.

TheDave
12-28-2009, 10:19 AM
...and unfortunately BOTH teams will be watching the playoffs.

go_broncos
12-28-2009, 10:22 AM
Exactly! If Orton runs for the first on 3rd and 2 with 10 yds in front of him it's a different ballgame

That's the reason i don't trust Orton..He got couple of chances where he could have run..

We need to get a QB..Otherwise, our record will be similar next year also.

Northman
12-28-2009, 10:59 AM
Anyone who has been paying attention this year knows Orton has been better all around. Cutler hasnt progressed at all as a QB.

2KBack
12-28-2009, 11:04 AM
Anyone who has been paying attention this year knows Orton has been better all around. Cutler hasnt progressed at all as a QB.

Chicago'll do that to a guy. One of the reasons I'm excited to see where Orton can take his game with legit coaching.

SportinOne
12-28-2009, 11:22 AM
Because it has little to do with Orton. It's a TEAM game.

1. It has more than a little to do with Orton, but I agree that there ARE other factors. This isn't baseball.

2. Funny how the same people who use this line to defend Orton can completely ignore the same concept when judging Cutler, both this year and last year.

If Cutler is our QB this year we do better than 9-7. He's not as consistent as Orton, but Orton is consistently AVERAGE. Nothing more nothing less. Cutler with the defense we have this year would have made for a better team. And yes, McDaniels would have been great for him. We will never win a super bowl with Orton, so it makes no sense to re sign him. If we are really rebuilding, we draft a young QB or find a diamond to polish.

Beantown Bronco
12-28-2009, 11:27 AM
2. Funny how the same people who use this line to defend Orton can completely ignore the same concept when judging Cutler, both this year and last year.

I don't think that's completely true. Orton has proven to be a winner and consistent player with 2 different teams, different coaching and different supporting cast. Cutler has proven to be a loser and turnover machine with 2 different teams, different coaching and different supporting cast.

If Cutler is our QB this year we do better than 9-7. Cutler with the defense we have this year would have made for a better team. And yes, McDaniels would have been great for him. We will never win a super bowl with Orton, so it makes no sense to re sign him. If we are really rebuilding, we draft a young QB or find a diamond to polish.

None of this is even close to fact, yet you write it up as if it is. This is opinion based on nothing tangible. Just hope and love.

Cutler would've made this defense a lot worse with his turnovers. They would constantly be put in bad situations that they haven't had to worry about this year. Think about it. Even the Orton haters admit that the worst he has done is go 3 and out with a punt. Better to go out there after a 3 and out and defend a long field as opposed to defending a short field at least twice a game cause your QB throws a pick in your own end.

How can you not see that?

SportinOne
12-28-2009, 11:32 AM
...and unfortunately BOTH teams will be watching the playoffs.

People forget that we were not supposed to be good last year either. People forget that last year was only Jay's second full year as a starter. But we started racking up points in the beginning and all of a sudden everyone got this sense of entitlement.

People also forget that Jay was doing it all himself last year. How many times did he basically will us back into games. Long drives, clutch throws.

He can be unpredictable, but with Marshall, Royal, Gaffney, Stokely, Buckhalter, and Moreno, it would have been a pretty solid offense, to say the least.

SportinOne
12-28-2009, 11:57 AM
How can you not see that?

I have not the time to break this down for you. Rationalize the fact that our new coach traded away a hell of a player all you want. Point out how bad he is doing on an awful team with a pile of injured players and a horrible offensive line with a disaster of a receiving corpse if it makes you feel better.

But when it's 3rd and long, in a key moment in the game, don't tell me that you have any faith at all in Kyle Orton making a play.

Rigs11
12-28-2009, 12:01 PM
who knows? what about Brady without Moss? or Manning without Wayne? all i know is that very near the end of the season, with an equal sample size, Orton has been better. that's surprising to me. i can't imagine anyone would have take that bet back in August. reminds me a bit of the 13-3 Plummer season, except for the 13-3 part (d'oh!).

i took that bet. my buddy's gonna be owing me a couple cases of beer.

Cito Pelon
12-28-2009, 12:04 PM
The problem with QB is a intangible, and probably due to the playcalling rather then orton - he is unable to maintain momentum. There was never a point this season where you saw two or three really good long drives down the field. The Broncos would catch randomly then disappear.

Would Cutler have been better? Probably, I for one think that Cutler would have been insanely effective in this offense, but it's water under the bridge. The trade benefited neither team.

Cutler? Phhhht. Dude would have had 25 TD's and 20 INT's. "Insanely effective"? Don't make me laugh. Broncs would have been out of the playoff hunt long ago.

Rigs11
12-28-2009, 12:06 PM
love it. when the broncos win or lose Orotn gets bashed. when we compare orton to cutler is suddenly becomes a team game.Ha!

Cito Pelon
12-28-2009, 12:18 PM
People forget that we were not supposed to be good last year either. People forget that last year was only Jay's second full year as a starter. But we started racking up points in the beginning and all of a sudden everyone got this sense of entitlement.

People also forget that Jay was doing it all himself last year. How many times did he basically will us back into games. Long drives, clutch throws.

He can be unpredictable, but with Marshall, Royal, Gaffney, Stokely, Buckhalter, and Moreno, it would have been a pretty solid offense, to say the least.

Cutler can't be counted on to be a winner, you better forget all about that.

DenverBrit
12-28-2009, 12:33 PM
Orton maybe the first NFL QB to lead his team to a 6-0 start and not lead the team to the playoffs!

Notice how none of the homers aren't discussing this fact.

Yeah, we know, it's all Orton's fault.

The team was otherwise perfect at every position. Hilarious!

bendog
12-28-2009, 12:34 PM
We're so much better off with a guy who can manage a game.

DenverBrit
12-28-2009, 12:35 PM
Yep we will never know why both Bowlen and McD conspired together to trade Cutler for Cassel.

We will never know why after the Cassel trade fell thru and the last meeting btwn McD and Cutler that McDaniel's came off antagonizing and indifferent whether Cutler was in the Broncos future planes by boldly stating that he (McD) couldn't guarantee Cutler wouldn't be traded in the future!Ha!

So was Cutler the traitor or was McD treating him like chopped liver?:sunshine:

Are you drunk or stoned when you create your little fantasies??

Rock Chalk
12-28-2009, 12:37 PM
Unreal.

Folks, Cutler is not coming back, ever. Give it a rest.

watermock
12-28-2009, 12:41 PM
It amazes me how many people either didn't see or simply forget the NE game.

I was the only meaningfull game we won (at home) convincingly.

Marshall won the Dallas game and Stokely won the Cincy game. The SD game was the only other impressive win. Wins against Oak and KC on the road, well, there is your 6-0.

Wew HAVE to find a QB, it sure would be nice to grab a QB but we don't have Seattle's choice now. They will likely wind up with 5 wins like the bears.

Still, if 'Bama beats up Colt is bad enough like Nebraska, he might be there in the early second.

Anyway, back to Neckbeard, sign him or taf him or whatever, but we need a new QB.

rastaman
12-28-2009, 01:11 PM
Because it has little to do with Orton. It's a TEAM game. And the team around him isn't playing nearly as well as they were during the 6-0 run. But he is actually playing better individually than he was for much of the 6-0 run.

Remember in the NFL the QB gets all the glory and all the blame! What was everyone saying about Orton as he led this team to a 6-0 start? He was the 2nd coming of something special wasn't he!

Sorry....Orton must take the good and the bad/responsibility for all the games he has started in 2009. His name will go down as the starting QB on the team possible not making the playoffs after leading his team to a 6-0 start. Already Orton has managed/led this to a 2-3 and 7 win-lose since starting out 6-0.

Northman
12-28-2009, 01:37 PM
I have not the time to break this down for you. Rationalize the fact that our new coach traded away a hell of a player all you want. Point out how bad he is doing on an awful team with a pile of injured players and a horrible offensive line with a disaster of a receiving corpse if it makes you feel better.

But when it's 3rd and long, in a key moment in the game, don't tell me that you have any faith at all in Kyle Orton making a play.


Wow, talk about smoking the crack way too much. Chicago's defense is middle of the pack and way better than we were last year. Matt Forte is no scrub and all we heard last year was finally Jay has a RB to compliment his abilities. Fact is, put Manning on the Bears and they are a playoff team. Thats what "elite" Qb's do and Manning has been doing that early on in his career. He wins games and just like this year he is using young no name wr's and virtually no running game to boot. Defensively they are ok, not great. Last year, Chicago's defense played worse and Orton still got them to a 9-7 record. Orton may not be the long term answer at Qb for Denver but dont even try to blow that smoke up our asses that Cutler would have this team in the playoffs this year. Jay has not progressed at all as a Qb with his fundamentals and mechanics. He is not even close to "elite" status as a QB. He has more in common with Jeff George if anything.

Archer81
12-28-2009, 01:41 PM
Another offseason where we can add the size on the interior of our offensive line should improve the running game to the point that Orton's numbers will improve over this season's.

*Edit. The 2003 Minnesota Vikings started 6-0 and failed to qualify for the playoffs. So please stop insinuating the Broncos will be the first team to do it.

:Broncos:

Requiem
12-28-2009, 01:44 PM
Denver has allowed 12 sacks in the last four games. McDaniels over the past three press conferences has taken the OL to the woodshed. We'll be upgrading there.

broncofan7
12-28-2009, 02:03 PM
Another offseason where we can add the size on the interior of our offensive line should improve the running game to the point that Orton's numbers will improve over this season's.

*Edit. The 2003 Minnesota Vikings started 6-0 and failed to qualify for the playoffs. So please stop insinuating the Broncos will be the first team to do it.

:Broncos:

they would be the fisst BRONCOS Team to not make the playoffs after starting 6-0.


2-7 so far down the stretch--and a tough KC team coming into town.........GREAT JOB Bowlen! I wonder when I should be expecting an email from the Denver Broncos Ticket office for Playoff tickets!?!?!?!?

Tampa is thinking about firing Raheem Morris after one season--who has the SAME RECORD AS MCGENIUS OVER THE LAST NINE GAMES (3-6)WITH A MUCH LESS TALENTED AND MUCH YOUNGER ROSTER.

bendog
12-28-2009, 02:06 PM
I'm so glad we now have a guy who can manage a game. Probowl **** is so overrated.

Archer81
12-28-2009, 02:07 PM
they would be the fisst BRONCOS Team to not make the playoffs after starting 6-0.


2-7 so far down the stretch--and a tough KC team coming into town.........GREAT JOB Bowlen! I wonder when I should be expecting an email from the Denver Broncos Ticket office for Playoff tickets!?!?!?!?

Tampa is thinking about firing Raheem Morris after one season--who has the SAME RECORD AS MCGENIUS OVER THE LAST NINE GAMES (3-6)WITH A MUCH LESS TALENTED AND MUCH YOUNGER ROSTER.


Rabble rabble rabble. Cry some more, I am sure that will fix it.


:Broncos:

2KBack
12-28-2009, 02:13 PM
rarely are 3-12 teams described as tough

orange 4 life
12-28-2009, 02:23 PM
Orton better than crybaby in every way save arm strength and leg speed, but even in those areas he's ALOT better than most people think. Lock him up long term.

DrFate
12-28-2009, 02:50 PM
I thought offensive stats were irrelevant...

bpc
12-28-2009, 02:52 PM
Typical spin deflecting any rationalization as to why our offense is probably the worst it's been in 20 years. No surprise here considering it protects certain person's agenda.

Inkana7
12-28-2009, 03:35 PM
Typical spin deflecting any rationalization as to why our offense is probably the worst it's been in 20 years. No surprise here considering it protects certain person's agenda.

Baby Jay's 2007 Offense is statistically the same as this one. This year's team is scoring .1 ppg more. Both starting QBs missed a game.

Inkana7
12-28-2009, 03:38 PM
Jake/Jay's 2006 team also scored .2 ppg less than this team.

Inkana7
12-28-2009, 03:39 PM
The 1999 team was also worse than this one.

Inkana7
12-28-2009, 03:40 PM
Oh man, 1992: 16.4ppg. That's awful. Who QB'ed on that team?

Should I really go back all 20 years, bpc?

2KBack
12-28-2009, 03:44 PM
Baby Jay's 2007 Offense is statistically the same as this one. This year's team is scoring .1 ppg more. Both starting QBs missed a game.

the 2008 Broncos are also scoring more per game than the 2006 team, 1999,1992, and 1991. They are within one point per game of the 2001, 1994, and 1990 teams. So they are nowhere near the worst offense in 20 years.

DenverBrit
12-28-2009, 04:06 PM
they would be the fisst BRONCOS Team to not make the playoffs after starting 6-0.


2-7 so far down the stretch--and a tough KC team coming into town.........GREAT JOB Bowlen! I wonder when I should be expecting an email from the Denver Broncos Ticket office for Playoff tickets!?!?!?!?

Tampa is thinking about firing Raheem Morris after one season--who has the SAME RECORD AS MCGENIUS OVER THE LAST NINE GAMES (3-6)WITH A MUCH LESS TALENTED AND MUCH YOUNGER ROSTER.

Yeah, the meltdown last year was soooo much better. Ha!

Stop crying.

rastaman
12-28-2009, 04:12 PM
Yeah, the meltdown last year was soooo much better. Ha!

Stop crying.

Meltdowns come in different degrees and disguises. Going 2-7 after starting out 6-0 is a melt down of epic proportions.

Next week game against KC isn't a guaranteed win either! We could very well finish the season 2-8 and 8-8 overall after starting out 6-0.

Beantown Bronco
12-28-2009, 06:39 PM
Typical spin deflecting any rationalization as to why our offense is probably the worst it's been in 20 years. No surprise here considering it protects certain person's agenda.

yet another epic fail by bpc

Popps
12-28-2009, 07:12 PM
yet another epic fail by bpc

It's cute to see BPC talk about people having an agenda. You have to admit, he's comical, if nothing else.

hambone13
12-29-2009, 12:59 AM
Quitler screws the pooch again this week, and he's in danger of a QB rating in the 60s for the SEASON. ****ing brutal.

A good game next week and Orton could be at 90.

Cutler has given the ball away 25 times, and fumbled 8. That's 33 times he's ****ed his team in a major way.

That's just staggering.

He has a realistic chance to end the season with 40 combined INTs/fumbles.

He may turn into something some day, but so far... he's been horrible. He was a false-idol in Denver and just pure trash in Chicago.

Your hatred baffles me....tried to type more but...your hatred baffles me.

hambone13
12-29-2009, 01:03 AM
this is what really sucks. McDaniels would have been good for Jay.

No ****. Both are young and dumb.

hambone13
12-29-2009, 01:13 AM
These comparisons are getting old.

Who knows how good this offense could have been with Cutler? I mean really, why drive yourself insane trying to figure that out? Fact is, he's gone. He's signed a long term deal with the bears and he's going to either win or wallow there and there is nothing any of us can do about it.

As for Orton, he's better than many fans thought he was (just ask bears fans) but he's still not anywhere close to an elite QB. He's been a nice addition to a team in transition and I think it would be nice if posters here just admit how good he's been for this team, even with his flaws.

Cutler can be great, but he is the one holding himself back. It may take him another 3 years before he finally realizes that in order to win, he needs to put his ego aside and simply make his team better by not throwing INTs and by not forcing the ball. He's got the talent, he just doesn't have the mindset that a great QB needs in order to get his team to the SB.

Great section. The coach that has the platform to utilize JC's skill's and the capacity to harness it, will be the next great jedi on the mane....all fanisms aside. Coaching = (leadership ability)= Players & (deal w/ what you have and drive execution)

Execution = (Getting it Done)

JC showed he has the capacity tonight. I would have never let him ass-hurt me from TN. I would have offered the reach around before I got taken...he's young, he's dumb and we all know what he's full of. Coach him and win in the long term. If you can coach.

If I ever lead myself to believe that I couldn't motivate a person to be my pawn, let me never be the queen.

hambone13
12-29-2009, 01:26 AM
These comparisons are getting old.

Who knows how good this offense could have been with Cutler? I mean really, why drive yourself insane trying to figure that out? Fact is, he's gone. He's signed a long term deal with the bears and he's going to either win or wallow there and there is nothing any of us can do about it.

As for Orton, he's better than many fans thought he was (just ask bears fans) but he's still not anywhere close to an elite QB. He's been a nice addition to a team in transition and I think it would be nice if posters here just admit how good he's been for this team, even with his flaws.

Cutler can be great, but he is the one holding himself back. It may take him another 3 years before he finally realizes that in order to win, he needs to put his ego aside and simply make his team better by not throwing INTs and by not forcing the ball. He's got the talent, he just doesn't have the mindset that a great QB needs in order to get his team to the SB.

And when are you going to realize that your perception lacks depth? If we don't/didn't want for a more critical position to be filled, what would we want for...your awful banter?

hambone13
12-29-2009, 01:28 AM
And Orton was statistically very similar to Cutler during their respective 2008 campaigns. One was better in some categories, the other better in some others. I guess the bottom line is when all is said and done - for me - I'd rather have Orton than Cutler.

Congratulations. You we have him.

Hulamau
12-29-2009, 01:32 AM
If I ever lead myself to believe that I couldn't motivate a person to be my pawn, let me never be the queen.

No worries there Ham-hocks ... we won't! :kiss:

hambone13
12-29-2009, 01:37 AM
Yep we will never know why both Bowlen and McD conspired together to trade Cutler for Cassel.

We will never know why after the Cassel trade fell thru and the last meeting btwn McD and Cutler that McDaniel's came off antagonizing and indifferent whether Cutler was in the Broncos future planes by boldly stating that he (McD) couldn't guarantee Cutler wouldn't be traded in the future!Ha!

So was Cutler the traitor or was McD treating him like chopped liver?:sunshine:

I had a drink with a man that said Bowlen exceeds arrogance. He doesn't even know it as an individual man, let alone one of an organizational leader. It was said that he couldn't deal with Mike laying ground in Denver, like he did and that it certainly wasn't acceptable that he did it just down the street from Pat.

I agree that MS needed an overhaul. I'm not sure if it was that year. Go get Mike Nolan and STFU. We're sound.

watermock
12-29-2009, 02:28 AM
Wow.

How amusing as he is not only 2-7, but Baja had a sighting in Cabo.

Shanahan will take Washington.

watermock
12-29-2009, 02:31 AM
Bowlen exceeds arrogance. He doesn't even know it as an individual man, let alone one of an organizational leader.

Its funny, what does that make the rest of the monkeys look like?

bpc
12-29-2009, 06:35 AM
Baby Jay's 2007 Offense is statistically the same as this one. This year's team is scoring .1 ppg more. Both starting QBs missed a game.

You're just using a play on statistics. 2009 defense has put this offense in a bunch of great positions but the offense has failed to do anything with the ball. The overall group of talent is much better on offense than it was in 2007. For example, Marshall and Royal were 100 catch receivers, and the offense combined last season only gave up 12 sacks. The defense for this team, which is top 10 in the league has posted more sacks and TO's than any unit since at least 2005 and the offense is failing to do anything with the ball.
Jay was also throwing to B-Marshall, and his 3rd, 4th, and 5th WR's because of injuries, and we were not deep. Stokley and Javon Walker missed significant portions of the year.

The offense was much better with Jay in the mix, vs. Plummer in 2006 so I think you can only reference the last four games he played. There was a reason Jake was benched. He pretty much was spineless at the end, couldn't stand competition for his job and folded under the pressure. All of Jay's games, the offense posted 20pts + that year.

bpc
12-29-2009, 06:43 AM
The 1999 team was also worse than this one.

Again it's easy to blindly post statistics out there without looking at the characters involved. Who is Kyle Orton and what is he working with? He had great talent coming into this year and has just blown it, in a wide open passing offense.

Look at 1999's team and we had near rookie playing QB, and at HB. As that was Olandis Gary is blowing Knowshon's rookie season out of the water. He looked like more of a dominant back than Moreno has. As for Griese, he doesn't get a pass, but he was starting his first games in the league. What is Orton's excuse? He's experienced, has great weaponry around him, an offense that specializes in the pass and he's sucking ass.

There really is no excuse to it. The fact that you're trying to debate whether he looks better than a near rookie, Brian Griese, and two rookies at the time on the 92 roster, Tommy Maddox and Shawn Moore, is pathetic.

The bottom line is this offense stinks. Statistically it may come out favorably to 92', and even 99', but look at the failure as a whole, with good parts on offense. It's tragic really.

The magnitude of failure with the 2009 offense is easily the worst I can remember. They've been horrible. Starts with coaching though. The talent was in place to do things.

bpc
12-29-2009, 06:47 AM
It's cute to see BPC talk about people having an agenda. You have to admit, he's comical, if nothing else.

Not really. How can you protect this mess of an offense without criticizing Orton and McD? They've failed in actuality. Well, not really Orton. He's been average playing in a pass first offense. I didn't expect more than what he has done but there is a cap on his talent and we've all seen it. This is as good as he can be.

orangemonkey
12-29-2009, 08:04 AM
Not really. How can you protect this mess of an offense without criticizing Orton and McD? They've failed in actuality. Well, not really Orton. He's been average playing in a pass first offense. I didn't expect more than what he has done but there is a cap on his talent and we've all seen it. This is as good as he can be.

Even if Orton's "been average" which is debatable, he will be competing for a starting job in Denver next year, just like he did this year and his years in Chicago. I suspect this will be the story of Orton's career until he becomes a permanent backup. I don't see him retiring as a starter a la most tier one QBs. Hopefully, for the Denver Broncos, McD casts much better competition for Orton in 2010 than he did in 2009.

I'll tell you this, Cutler will not be competing for a job in 2010, Orton and Cassell will.

Beantown Bronco
12-29-2009, 08:06 AM
I'll tell you this, Cutler will not be competing for a job in 2010, Orton and Cassell will.

Terrible measure for how good a QB is. Too many other factors are at play concerning competition at certain roster spots. Jamarcus Russell, the worst starting QB in the league, wasn't competing for his job this past offseason.

orangemonkey
12-29-2009, 08:08 AM
Terrible measure for how good a QB is. Too many other factors are at play concerning competition at certain roster spots. Jamarcus Russell, the worst starting QB in the league, wasn't competing for his job this past offseason.

But he will be in 2010.