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View Full Version : We cannot resign Orton (can we?)


Denver724
12-27-2009, 05:17 PM
Great QB's win these types of games. McNabb had a mediocre 2nd half and still pulled it out. The 27 yard run and big pass was the difference. Orton ran for 5 yards (and failed to get the 1st down) and cannot throw with confidence more than 15-20 yards. We will never go to the next level with him so we may as well let him walk now. I just have a bad feeling that McD will resign just because he is hard headed.

ZONA
12-27-2009, 05:22 PM
Great QB's win these types of games. McNabb had a mediocre 2nd half and still pulled it out. The 27 yard run and big pass was the difference. Orton ran for 5 yards (and failed to get the 1st down) and cannot throw with confidence more than 15-20 yards. We will never go to the next level with him so we may as well let him walk now. I just have a bad feeling that McD will resign just because he is hard headed.

I know it's his first year in McD's system but Orton has showed he's not going to be anything close to one of the better QB's in the league. I guess if you are fine with a middle of the road QB then you might sign. When I watch Big Ben moving around in that pocket today, with guys hanging on him and he completes a pass for a 1st down, I get jealous. Especially when I see Orton get slightly bumped and he curls up like a wuss and falls to the ground. I am really hoping Brandstater improves big time this offseason and comes back next year and takes the starting QB spot. We really need to use our high picks on both lines. The only way I spend a top pick on QB is if Bradford falls to us in the first.

Greatspirits
12-27-2009, 05:23 PM
He'd make a good backup!

SonOfLe-loLang
12-27-2009, 05:24 PM
We have to re-sign him, what the hell would the alternative be? But i wouldnt be upset if we drafted a QB high

mhgaffney
12-27-2009, 05:25 PM
Too many fans making excuses for Orton.

Can't get it done. Limited ability.

Denver should have signed M Vick. Now we will have to use a high draft pick on a QB.

Greatspirits
12-27-2009, 05:26 PM
I know it's his first year in McD's system but Orton has showed he's not going to be anything close to one of the better QB's in the league. I guess if you are fine with a middle of the road QB then you might sign. When I watch Big Ben moving around in that pocket today, with guys hanging on him and he completes a pass for a 1st down, I get jealous. Especially when I see Orton get slightly bumped and he curls up like a wuss and falls to the ground.

Exacty! We need a QB who can make that critical 1st down or Touchdown. Orton can get you to the mountain, he just can't get you over the top!

Denver724
12-27-2009, 05:29 PM
Great observation. If we want to build a dynasty than we need a great signal caller who can make all the throws, move in the pocket and make big plays. Orton can do none of that. I just hope that we don't resign his sorry ass.

Kid A
12-27-2009, 05:30 PM
Great QB's win these types of games. McNabb had a mediocre 2nd half and still pulled it out. The 27 yard run and big pass was the difference. Orton ran for 5 yards (and failed to get the 1st down) and cannot throw with confidence more than 15-20 yards. We will never go to the next level with him so we may as well let him walk now. I just have a bad feeling that McD will resign just because he is hard headed.

How easy is to find a "great" QB? I agree we could have used one today, but there just aren't a whole lot of Mannings, Brees, Rivers, McNabbs out there. I'd be fine with drafting another QB in the draft, but lets not kid ourselves that a clearly better option than Orton will be sitting out there in free agency.

Denver724
12-27-2009, 05:30 PM
We have to re-sign him, what the hell would the alternative be? But i wouldnt be upset if we drafted a QB high

No way. Start over with a rookie or Brandstater. Keeping Orton one more year is one year longer before we can develop a real QB. It would be like spinning our wheels.

briane
12-27-2009, 05:31 PM
I hope we get a good rookie with our chicago pick...heres to two more losses and 10 ints for the bears and our boy cutler

Denver724
12-27-2009, 05:32 PM
How easy is to find a "great" QB? I agree we could have used one today, but there just aren't a whole lot of Mannings, Brees, Rivers, McNabbs out there. I'd be fine with drafting another QB in the draft, but lets not kid ourselves that a clearly better option than Orton will be sitting out there in free agency.

Time to find one a develop him. Starting Orton one more season would just delay their development (better veteran or rookie).

WABronco
12-27-2009, 05:32 PM
Too many fans making excuses for Orton.

Can't get it done. Limited ability.

Denver should have signed M Vick. Now we will have to use a high draft pick on a QB.

LulZ SOLID POINT BRO

Vick...that is HI-larious.

The only way we don't consider bringing Orton back is if Brandstater is deemed ready. Highly, highly doubtful.

Continue being retarded.

Denver724
12-27-2009, 05:34 PM
LulZ SOLID POINT BRO

Vick...that is HI-larious.

The only way we don't consider bringing Orton back is if Brandstater is deemed ready. Highly, highly doubtful.

Continue being retarded.

Supporting an Orton return is supporting another season of not making the post season. Do you really think we can win with Orton? Really?

WABronco
12-27-2009, 05:35 PM
Too much logic for me!

mhgaffney
12-27-2009, 05:36 PM
There was never anything wrong with Vick (the QB) that a good coach couldn't fix.

snowspot66
12-27-2009, 05:50 PM
Too many fans making excuses for Orton.

Can't get it done. Limited ability.

Denver should have signed M Vick. Now we will have to use a high draft pick on a QB.

That invalidates your opinion.

Vick? Really? The guy never proved anything (other than he's one of the most over rated QB's ever) and he's a piece of trash.

snowspot66
12-27-2009, 05:51 PM
Supporting an Orton return is supporting another season of not making the post season. Do you really think we can win with Orton? Really?

Who you gonna put in for him genius?

If McDaniels thinks there's a rookie QB worth it we'll take him I'm sure.

I seriously doubt there is a QB like that in the draft. None of them are very exciting prospects.

meangene
12-27-2009, 05:54 PM
Supporting an Orton return is supporting another season of not making the post season. Do you really think we can win with Orton? Really?

Yes, I do. We need an offensive line. Orton is not the reason we will not make the post-season.

colonelbeef
12-27-2009, 05:57 PM
Have to draft a QB. No doubt about it.

Orton has to be signed though, there is nothing else on the roster that is ready to start next year, and with Orton the team will be at least competitive.

broncocalijohn
12-27-2009, 05:57 PM
Too many fans making excuses for Orton.

Can't get it done. Limited ability.

Denver should have signed M Vick. Now we will have to use a high draft pick on a QB.

god, sometimes it is better for you to stay in the War forum. People, it is re-sign not resign. Big difference.

Pontius Pirate
12-27-2009, 05:58 PM
What we really need is a gunslinger. Maybe one from the sec. Maybe one who has been a perennial loser at each stage of his football career

snowspot66
12-27-2009, 05:58 PM
Why the **** is everybody going "anybody but Orton"?

Seriously. We could do a lot ****ing worse and if McDaniels doesn't think there's somebody better out there do you honestly want to say **** it and ditch Orton anyway?

If McDaniels pulls the trigger on a QB in the draft fine, so be it. But for Christ sake can we stop all this "we need a new QB" bull**** when nobody is offering up any possible alternatives? Last I checked Manning and Brady type QB's don't come along in FA.

Kid A
12-27-2009, 06:04 PM
If McDaniels pulls the trigger on a QB in the draft fine, so be it. But for Christ sake can we stop all this "we need a new QB" bull**** when nobody is offering up any possible alternatives? Last I checked Manning and Brady type QB's don't come along in FA.

Could not agree more. If they like a guy in the draft, by all means pull the trigger (hell, maybe they think Brandstater is the real deal), but I'm not sure we'll find a better option for our week 1 starter right now than Orton.

KevinJames
12-27-2009, 06:09 PM
lol lets get Vick

titan
12-27-2009, 06:15 PM
I like Orton, but he really reminds me of Steve DeBerg. "Just good enough to get you beat" was Bill Walsh's line about DeBerg, and I think that applies to Orton, too. Orton, like DeBerg, is a serviceable nfl qb but not the long term answer.

oubronco
12-27-2009, 06:15 PM
Too many fans making excuses for Orton.

Can't get it done. Limited ability.

Denver should have signed M Vick. Now we will have to use a high draft pick on a QB.

UGH are you serious

Man-Goblin
12-27-2009, 06:15 PM
Absolutely resign him. He's most likely restricted and if you can get him for a decent price for about 3 years you do that too. This team is too good (and will he better next year) to expect a rookie (no matter how high he's taken) to learn the system in half an offseason.

bloodsunday
12-27-2009, 06:18 PM
Look, Parcels had this right. You can't just dial 1-800 QB and get a HoF QB. They are without a doubt the most coveted prize in all of football. It's arguable that only 5 to 10 teams have "elite" QBs, depending on how you make the definition.

Orton is a respectable option. If we cannot find someone that gives us a better chance to win NEXT YEAR, then we must resign him. No one wants to have a 4th "rebuilding" year in a row.

Baba Booey
12-27-2009, 06:19 PM
I swear to God if I see one more "bump" sack...

Crushaholic
12-27-2009, 06:20 PM
Yes, I do. We need an offensive line. Orton is not the reason we will not make the post-season.

How about 95 yards in penalties? Naw...That CAN'T be the reason...

ORTON SUCKS...maybe at handball...8')

Broncos4tw
12-27-2009, 06:31 PM
We should replace him if we want to seriously compete for playoffs every year (that is, going and winning games in them). But, I don't think we should replace him unless we are getting a clearly MUCH better QB in the process. What would be the point? There is a reason we've been mired in mediocrity since the SB years. A continuation of mediocre QBs that are just good enough to be starters, but hardly good enough to win playoffs or the SB.

peacepipe
12-27-2009, 06:34 PM
I hate to break the news,but Orton is not going to sign for cheap.He's not going to get peyton money but he's going to want a substantial amount. I don't think anyone can honestly say that he's the long term answer. Tom Brandstater is waiting in the wings learning the system,maybe he should get a shot. If it so happens Orton is willing to sign a 1 yr deal then go for it. Franchise QBs may not grow on trees but you can't say Orton is the next best option.

misturanderson
12-27-2009, 06:45 PM
Could not agree more. If they like a guy in the draft, by all means pull the trigger (hell, maybe they think Brandstater is the real deal), but I'm not sure we'll find a better option for our week 1 starter right now than Orton.

It requires a bit too much critical thinking for many people on this board to realize this. It's more: "Manning just beat the crap out of us again. See! We need him or someone just like him on our team! Orton sucks because he's worse than Peyton Manning!"

misturanderson
12-27-2009, 06:49 PM
I hate to break the news,but Orton is not going to sign for cheap.He's not going to get peyton money but he's going to want a substantial amount. I don't think anyone can honestly say that he's the long term answer. Tom Brandstater is waiting in the wings learning the system,maybe he should get a shot. If it so happens Orton is willing to sign a 1 yr deal then go for it. Franchise QBs may not grow on trees but you can't say Orton is the next best option.

Well then who is the next best option that will be available in FA or trade? A rookie absolutely will not be a better option than him next year. That isn't to say that we shouldn't pick up a rookie, but they won't improve our team in their first year.

Popps
12-27-2009, 06:51 PM
Of course you re-sign Orton. He's the best option out there.

Develop a young guy while we hopefully win with the best option we have.

It's a no-brainer. Look at the free agent QB crop. It makes the decision really easy.

ZONA
12-27-2009, 06:57 PM
Of course you re-sign Orton. He's the best option out there.

Develop a young guy while we hopefully win was the best option we have.

.

See, I think that was the plan for this year. You get Orton as a throw in on the trade, he has only a 1 year deal so no risk of having him on the roster if he didn't show you what you wanted, while you were developing a young talented QB, like Brandstater. I don't think the Broncos have to make the first move at all when it comes to Orton. If somebody out there wants to give him a big deal, let them do it. I doubt that happens though. I think the Broncos can just give him a short deal or even slap a 1 year tag on him if they think Brandstater is another year away or if they draft another QB, allow him a year to develop. But it's not a no brainer as you say. There are other options. I think they would like to slap a 1 year tag on him and allow him and Brandstater to compete for the job, maybe even cut Simms and draft another guy for more competition. In no way has Orton earned the right to just go into camp next year as the given man. Not everything wrong with this team is his fault obviously but he's not exactly been a pillar or excellence.

UberBroncoMan
12-27-2009, 07:02 PM
Too many fans making excuses for Orton.

Can't get it done. Limited ability.

Denver should have signed M Vick. Now we will have to use a high draft pick on a QB.

I think the fanbase has more class than to want a person of Vick's nature on this team.

Besides... the ****er has horrid accuracy. Look at his statistics and explain what makes him a good QB outside of running a lot.

broncobum6162
12-27-2009, 07:04 PM
Too many fans making excuses for Orton.

Can't get it done. Limited ability.

Denver should have signed M Vick. Now we will have to use a high draft pick on a QB.

I gave Orton every break in the book. At the end of the season I'm done w/ him. Underthrown passes, missed reads, no progression thru the reads, no sidestepping sacks', no throws downfield to make the safety's play back, 20 yard throws to the flat or sidelines instead of 20 yd throws downfield. I could go on and on. He's good statisticly (spelling) but in reality he's not getting it done. I know some of it is McDaniels playcalling but he's not doing it when it needs to get done. We had the ball on at least 3 possesions in the second half and he did nothing but 3 and out. I'm done. End of story.

bpc
12-27-2009, 07:33 PM
Orton is a good backup QB, who can come into the game and won't completely ish the pot. As a starter, on a team with playoff aspirations? No. I don't mind resigning him but there is no way I would throw a bunch of money at this guy. Average to poor arm... accuracy is overrated. He can hit the broadside of a barn, but it will be high, then low, the left, then right. His worst feature is his pocket presence. He has no innate feel of backside rush, and more often runs into the back of the linemen when the pocket is pushed rather than stepping up and throwing a strike.

All together, he's just not very good.

Personally, i would like to see Denver hopefully resign him at about 4 million per year, for a 3 year contract. Let him compete for the starting spot next year, bring in some competition. I would take a run at a guy like Jason Campbell or a young vet like him to see how he could thrive in a starting spot within McD's offense just to give us an immediate option.

We could then have Brandstater and hopefully a draft pick competing in training camp. I'm not against keeping 4 QB's next year on the active roster either. QB is the most important position on the field and we need serious options moving forward.

Beantown Bronco
12-27-2009, 07:35 PM
I gave Orton every break in the book. At the end of the season I'm done w/ him. Underthrown passes, missed reads, no progression thru the reads, no sidestepping sacks', no throws downfield to make the safety's play back, 20 yard throws to the flat or sidelines instead of 20 yd throws downfield. I could go on and on. He's good statisticly (spelling) but in reality he's not getting it done. I know some of it is McDaniels playcalling but he's not doing it when it needs to get done. We had the ball on at least 3 possesions in the second half and he did nothing but 3 and out. I'm done. End of story.

Every break in the book? If that was true then you would've noticed a little something I like to call "dropped passes, penalties and a complete inability to run the ball" that had a little something to do with his lack of production there.

Ask the Pats if he can't get it done in crunch time.

The guy did lead us back with 17 unanswered points in the 2nd half today, when it needed to get done.

elsid13
12-27-2009, 07:36 PM
Of course you re-sign Orton. He's the best option out there.

Develop a young guy while we hopefully win with the best option we have.

It's a no-brainer. Look at the free agent QB crop. It makes the decision really easy.

Really what if McDaniels decide to trade for someone? Or someone gets cut because of change in Head Coaches? It far early to make statements like that.

Denver724
12-27-2009, 07:41 PM
Of course you re-sign Orton. He's the best option out there.

Develop a young guy while we hopefully win with the best option we have.

It's a no-brainer. Look at the free agent QB crop. It makes the decision really easy.

The Broncos need to tell Orton to pack his **** and leave the day after the season is over. I would rather start a youngster like the Jets did this year than start a player like Orton. As I have said before, he will never take us to the promised land so why waste the time.

dsmoot
12-27-2009, 07:42 PM
I like Orton, but he really reminds me of Steve DeBerg. "Just good enough to get you beat" was Bill Walsh's line about DeBerg, and I think that applies to Orton, too. Orton, like DeBerg, is a serviceable nfl qb but not the long term answer.

DeBerg, Ferrotte, Griese, Kubiak, Brister .... all good guys to have coming off the bench or fill in for a game or two.

Beantown Bronco
12-27-2009, 07:45 PM
The Broncos need to tell Orton to pack his **** and leave the day after the season is over. I would rather start a youngster like the Jets did this year than start a player like Orton. As I have said before, he will never take us to the promised land so why waste the time.

Funny you mention the Jets, because Orton would've already clinched a playoff spot for them if he was their QB this season instead of Sanchez. Have you seen how many games he's single-handedly lost for them this season?

maher_tyler
12-27-2009, 07:49 PM
Too many fans making excuses for Orton.

Can't get it done. Limited ability.

Denver should have signed M Vick. Now we will have to use a high draft pick on a QB.

Isn't he going to be a FA after this year?? I doubt he's going to be asking for much money with very limited playing time this year!

colonelbeef
12-27-2009, 07:56 PM
The Broncos need to tell Orton to pack his **** and leave the day after the season is over. I would rather start a youngster like the Jets did this year than start a player like Orton. As I have said before, he will never take us to the promised land so why waste the time.

Orton deserves to be treated well, he's a standup guy and has handled the whole situation really well. Regardless of what you think about his abilities on the field, the guy has represented the Broncos well, and if he is here to groom someone else for a few more years, I don't think that is the worst thing possible.

DenverBrit
12-27-2009, 08:01 PM
If there's a FA QB available who can compete for the starting job, bring him in.

Orton's a 'team' player and will live with being a backup if he loses his job as the starter.

But bring in real competition, not another Sims.

dsmoot
12-27-2009, 08:03 PM
How about 95 yards in penalties? Naw...That CAN'T be the reason...

ORTON SUCKS...maybe at handball...8')

It used to kill me to watch the Raiders self destruct with penalties. Now we are doing it. Why? We don't have the talent to match up physically.

KipCorrington25
12-27-2009, 08:03 PM
He would be a great back up but is so limited physically he can't take you to the next level. Hell I'd rather have Frye with Oakland to be honest.

Broncos4tw
12-27-2009, 08:11 PM
Every break in the book? If that was true then you would've noticed a little something I like to call "dropped passes, penalties and a complete inability to run the ball" that had a little something to do with his lack of production there.

And then failed in the end. Yay?

Ignore everything else and just focus on Orton as a QB in the NFL. You can seriously say with a straight face that this is a guy you'd want running your team for the next 10 years or so? He is the "guy" for us? He can WIN SBs for us?

What does he do that you are so impressed about? More importantly, what can he do that we couldn't easily find in another player, who also has more upside? He is hardly a consistant deep threat. He has at BEST, below-average pocket presence. He gets sacked far too easily. He makes silly mistakes. He can't scramble to save his life. He can't read a defense apparently, doesn't call audibles, stares down his receivers.

What is it about this guy that makes you defend him? I LIKE HIM as a player (his attitude). But I'm not blind to his weaknesses, either. He is AVERAGE. He is nothing special. He would serve on a backup on MANY teams in the NFL. There have been backups who were much better than him, in fact.

Quoydogs
12-27-2009, 08:16 PM
I like Orton, he tries as hard as he can. That is the problem though. He has listened and learned but he just does not have the ability to lead a team to the big dance. Some people have it and some don't.

strafen
12-27-2009, 08:18 PM
Yes, I do. We need an offensive line. Orton is not the reason we will not make the post-season.Orton jt doesn't have it man.
I was pissed off when we got him, and still didn't do anything to change my mind.
The guy is just a terrible QB, period!

Beantown Bronco
12-27-2009, 08:23 PM
10+ years? No.

But I'm not ready to send him packing the day after the season ends, as some here are all too willing to do.

I loved him during our 6-0 run. Loved him in Washington. Loved the spark he brought against SD, even though it didn't translate to the scoreboard. There was an obvious difference in play once he came in, but Simms had already ruined whatever chance they had.

Loved him today, with a few exceptions.

Look, I can acknowledge his weaknesses. But I think those are overcome for the most part by his strengths. The guy is a winner and puts us in good situations to win games. If the defense or OLine even pretended to show up in the first half today, the dropsies are avoided, or the ungodly penalty situation doesn't happen, we win this one going away IMO. There were just too many things outside his control that went to hell. Did he play perfectly? No. But he was waaaay down the list IMO.

In short, here is why I want him here in 2010: We can win with this guy. We can beat playoff teams with this guy. There is nobody out there in FA or the draft that I have the confidence in to make any real improvement in the position IMO. Bowlen's money would be better spent on improving the lines and getting one more playmaker on offense IMO.

Beantown Bronco
12-27-2009, 08:24 PM
I like Orton, he tries as hard as he can. That is the problem though. He has listened and learned but he just does not have the ability to lead a team to the big dance. Some people have it and some don't.

Same was said about Eli before he did it. Actually, they weren't even that kind.

colonelbeef
12-27-2009, 08:29 PM
Orton is going to be in Denver next year.

Rigs11
12-27-2009, 08:33 PM
Anyone who says orton is terrible is an idiot. How many tds did he throw today?

colonelbeef
12-27-2009, 08:35 PM
Anyone who says orton is terrible is an idiot. How many tds did he throw today?

Orton is hardly terrible, but any #s he had today were a direct result of the defense putting him in field position and the WRs taking simple screens and making them into decent gains.

Hamrob
12-27-2009, 08:35 PM
Kyle Orton needs a great team around him to win games. If he has a great defense and a decent offense, he'll get you to a wild card game.

Wippeee!

The guy is an average at best QB. Average QB's play for average teams. If we want to remain average, then we will keep Orton as our QB. If McDaniels wants to end his coaching career then he will keep Orton as his QB.

Anyone who doesn't realise this is an idiot!

gunns
12-27-2009, 08:39 PM
Too many fans making excuses for Orton.

Can't get it done. Limited ability.

Denver should have signed M Vick. Now we will have to use a high draft pick on a QB.

I was with you till the Vick comment. I want a mobile QB, but not a RB at QB.

KipCorrington25
12-27-2009, 08:42 PM
Orton is going to be in Denver next year.

I agree, 8 and 8 once again in 2010 book it!

strafen
12-27-2009, 08:43 PM
Anyone who says orton is terrible is an idiot. How many tds did he throw today?Did he pull off the win?
No, those numbers don't mean crap if he's not capable of pulling a win when need one, when he can't make the plays that we need to have to pull a win.
That's a characteristic in great QB's that Orton doesn't have...

Rigs11
12-27-2009, 08:43 PM
Orton is hardly terrible, but any #s he had today were a direct result of the defense putting him in field position and the WRs taking simple screens and making them into decent gains.

so he has to lead 80 yard drives to be considered good?does this insane analogy apply to other qbs as well?

strafen
12-27-2009, 08:44 PM
Kyle Orton needs a great team around him to win games. If he has a great defense and a decent offense, he'll get you to a wild card game.

Wippeee!

The guy is an average at best QB. Average QB's play for average teams. If we want to remain average, then we will keep Orton as our QB. If McDaniels wants to end his coaching career then he will keep Orton as his QB.

Anyone who doesn't realise this is an idiot!Good luck trying to get the homers see that light...

Taco John
12-27-2009, 08:44 PM
At the very least, we need to franchise Orton for a single season.

Rigs11
12-27-2009, 08:48 PM
Did he pull off the win?
No, those numbers don't mean crap if he's not capable of pulling a win when need one, when he can't make the plays that we need to have to pull a win.
That's a characteristic in great QB's that Orton doesn't have...

and if he would have won, as he has this year, he still gets no credit. Someone please tell me what the guy has to do?Ive heard rubbish such as the "receivers were open and anyone could have thrown to them", to the latest one where he had a short field.Last year all we heard was apologies for cutler.This year win or lose orton gets bitched about.

Kid A
12-27-2009, 08:49 PM
Kyle Orton needs a great team around him to win games. If he has a great defense and a decent offense, he'll get you to a wild card game.

Wippeee!

The guy is an average at best QB. Average QB's play for average teams. If we want to remain average, then we will keep Orton as our QB. If McDaniels wants to end his coaching career then he will keep Orton as his QB.

Anyone who doesn't realise this is an idiot!

Sweet! Now who are some above-average QBs we should target in free agency? Draft a qb? I'm up for that, but you surely want one veteran QB on the roster to give the rook so development time...and that sure as hell isn't Simms. Keeping Orton on board is hardly the same as making him the face of the franchise or a long-term starter.

KCStud
12-27-2009, 08:56 PM
McGenius needs to do anything possible to get Sam Bradford. He would be perfect for your offense

NFLBRONCO
12-27-2009, 09:11 PM
I expect Orton here next 2 yrs. I want a change myself but, it doesn't mean McD will. He could easily say better OL, a play here and there we'd be fine and think Orton worth giving a few more seasons.

So watch we want McD yo upgrade QB instead we upgrade our skill positions alot.

strafen
12-27-2009, 09:24 PM
and if he would have won, as he has this year, he still gets no credit. Someone please tell me what the guy has to do?Ive heard rubbish such as the "receivers were open and anyone could have thrown to them", to the latest one where he had a short field.Last year all we heard was apologies for cutler.This year win or lose orton gets b****ed about.

He has won games, sure, but more often than not, he's been irrelevant even in games we've won.
I can only remember a game that Orton played good enough for us to win where credit I would have to give him, and that was the game against the Pats.
Orton is just not a good QB, man. Understand that.
His limited physical talent is what is killing our offense.
He makes us one-dimensional. Teams are not afraid of Orton.
Teams crowd the line to take away the bubble screen passes, the dink and dunk, the running game, and once in a blue moon he'll throw a deep pass.
The make up of his playing QB is well defined and undestood by a lot of teams in the NFL.
We're at the bottom of just about every significant stats offensively, and Orton is the reason for it.

strafen
12-27-2009, 09:26 PM
I expect Orton here next 2 yrs. I want a change myself but, it doesn't mean McD will. He could easily say better OL a play here and there we'd be fine and think Orton is the answer we'll see.That's the most likely scenario.
McDaniels could well say Orton will be our QB for the next 2 years, and that's what we would be stuck with.
It sucks, but I see McDaniels doing it.

orange 4 life
12-27-2009, 09:30 PM
Great QB's win these types of games. McNabb had a mediocre 2nd half and still pulled it out. The 27 yard run and big pass was the difference. Orton ran for 5 yards (and failed to get the 1st down) and cannot throw with confidence more than 15-20 yards. We will never go to the next level with him so we may as well let him walk now. I just have a bad feeling that McD will resign just because he is hard headed.

WOW.

Don't even know what to say. Orton (all things considered) has been fantastic, and we'd be absolutely nuts not to lock him up long term. This team has some issues. QB is not one of them.

DBroncos4life
12-27-2009, 09:32 PM
Anyone who says orton is terrible is an idiot. How many tds did he throw today?

I don't think he is bad but he was 27 for 41 and only 189 yards to show for it. Something has to change. I don't remember ever seeing a QB throw 41 times and getting so little yards.

go_broncos
12-27-2009, 09:33 PM
If Orton starts for the next 2 seasons, Mcd will be fired.
Orton is just a game manager.There are couple of times where he could have run for the first down.Instead of that, he threw the ball.

Also, I see QB's like Flacco, Rogers threw the ball right to the receiver when there are defenders on them.Orton can't do that.

I appreciate what he has done till now.We need to resign him provided he can take less money. Also, we need to either draft a QB/Tom to start grooming as Orton is not the answer.

NFLBRONCO
12-27-2009, 09:51 PM
If Orton starts for the next 2 seasons, Mcd will be fired.
Orton is just a game manager.There are couple of times where he could have run for the first down.Instead of that, he threw the ball.

Also, I see QB's like Flacco, Rogers threw the ball right to the receiver when there are defenders on them.Orton can't do that.

I appreciate what he has done till now.We need to resign him provided he can take less money. Also, we need to either draft a QB/Tom to start grooming as Orton is not the answer.

I agree with you points myself but, McD might not. What if he vastly improves the interior OL in 10 and bolsters skill positions with more speed he might go this route first before upgrading QB position unless we go with Tom Brandstater in 2011 and see how he does for a yr.

broncos-rock
12-27-2009, 10:02 PM
I like Orton, but he really reminds me of Steve DeBerg. "Just good enough to get you beat" was Bill Walsh's line about DeBerg, and I think that applies to Orton, too. Orton, like DeBerg, is a serviceable nfl qb but not the long term answer.

+1
nice quote and well said!!!

SouthStndJunkie
12-27-2009, 10:07 PM
Josh McDaniels knows Kyle Orton is not the answer at QB for the Denver Broncos.

Orton may come back and start next year, but McDaniels is going to be on the hunt for his future replacement.

Orton is a gamer, but is limited....it's as simple as that.

I knew that when he was with the Bears and I know it now.

Pony Boy
12-27-2009, 10:12 PM
I would take a run at a guy like Jason Campbell or a young vet like him to see how he could thrive in a starting spot within McD's offense just to give us an immediate option.

Seriously "Jason Campbell" Please tell me that's a typo......... thatís a little "tongue in cheek" right?

Popps
12-27-2009, 10:17 PM
Josh McDaniels knows Kyle Orton is not the answer at QB for the Denver Broncos.

Orton may come back and start next year, but McDaniels is going to be on the hunt for his future replacement.

Orton is a gamer, but is limited....it's as simple as that.

I knew that when he was with the Bears and I know it now.

I think McDaniels will continue to keep his eyes open. But, I suspect his opinion of Orton is higher than you make it out to be.

Just a gut feeling.

bpc
12-27-2009, 10:19 PM
Seriously "Jason Campbell" Please tell me that's a typo......... thatís a little "tongue in cheek" right?

At least he has a pulse which is a step up over Chris Simms.

NFLBRONCO
12-27-2009, 10:21 PM
I think McDaniels will continue to keep his eyes open. But, I suspect his opinion of Orton is higher than you make it out to be.

Just a gut feeling.

Exactly how I feel McD see's it honestly. Even though I agree with the Junkman on this subject.

longtimer
12-27-2009, 10:21 PM
I have see Orton in all most every game since he came to chicago and yes he has issues throwing the deep ball that being said it is hard to win games when the defense is giving up 30 points. We do need a QB but we should build the Defense first.

SouthStndJunkie
12-27-2009, 10:25 PM
I think McDaniels will continue to keep his eyes open. But, I suspect his opinion of Orton is higher than you make it out to be.

Just a gut feeling.

I hope you are wrong.

OBF1
12-27-2009, 10:27 PM
I know it's his first year in McD's system but Orton has showed he's not going to be anything close to one of the better QB's in the league. I guess if you are fine with a middle of the road QB then you might sign. When I watch Big Ben moving around in that pocket today, with guys hanging on him and he completes a pass for a 1st down, I get jealous. Especially when I see Orton get slightly bumped and he curls up like a wuss and falls to the ground. I am really hoping Brandstater improves big time this offseason and comes back next year and takes the starting QB spot. We really need to use our high picks on both lines. The only way I spend a top pick on QB is if Bradford falls to us in the first.

You just made the point yourself. YOU NEED TO BE A CRAPPY TEAM to get a great QB in most cases.

McNabb was picked using the #2 overall pick in the draft, Peyton Manning was the overall #1, Rivers was #3 and Rothlisberger was taken at #11.

Just because you draft early does not mean there will be a "Franchise" QB available, for every QB mentioned above you also have the Akili Smiths, Ryan Leafs and Matt Linarts of the world that go bust. Getting a top rated NFL QB is a crap shoot at best.

Do not mortgage the future when you have not secured the needed replacement. Keep Orton for now without breaking the bank and get a replacement before kicking him to the curb.

Pony Boy
12-27-2009, 10:37 PM
At least he has a pulse which is a step up over Chris Simms.

At least he has a spleen which is a step up over Chris Simms.

Fixed it for ya :rofl:

Popps
12-27-2009, 11:13 PM
At the very least, we need to franchise Orton for a single season.

Wouldn't we need to franchise Dumervil? (Or is he restricted?)

I think it's easier to just extend him.

Orton knows there won't be a huge market out there for him. He's a guy much better suited to playing where he is than anywhere else. Offer him a 3 year deal worth enough to keep him happy and let's see what we can do with him.

In the meanwhile, sure... keep trying to develop something behind him.

Certainly, we need to have something better than Simms in the wings. That was a disaster.

Broncos4tw
12-27-2009, 11:39 PM
Keep around Doom and Orton, get rid of Marshall, and we'll get to see exactly how crappy Orton is next year, with his primary and almost only receiver is gone. Keep Marshall at all costs. Orton is expendable.

Popps
12-27-2009, 11:43 PM
Seriously "Jason Campbell" Please tell me that's a typo......... thatís a little "tongue in cheek" right?

I hope that's a joke.

Campbell is a disaster.

broncocalijohn
12-28-2009, 12:18 AM
I don't think he is bad but he was 27 for 41 and only 189 yards to show for it. Something has to change. I don't remember ever seeing a QB throw 41 times and getting so little yards.

look up some of Cutler's stats from this year.

MaloCS
12-28-2009, 12:28 AM
No way. Start over with a rookie or Brandstater. Keeping Orton one more year is one year longer before we can develop a real QB. It would be like spinning our wheels.

Exactly. The current Broncos regime is showing tendencies to address the short term at the expense of the long term. Bowlen and this coach need to admit that the Broncos are rebuilding and then act accordingly. Stop bringing in the likes of Law, Dawkins, Buckhalter and Jordan and start building the future through a young crop of players. Even if this process results in a few lean years it's a necessary evil.

Taco John
12-28-2009, 12:32 AM
Josh McDaniels knows Kyle Orton is not the answer at QB for the Denver Broncos.

Orton may come back and start next year, but McDaniels is going to be on the hunt for his future replacement.

Orton is a gamer, but is limited....it's as simple as that.

I knew that when he was with the Bears and I know it now.


100 percent agree.

He has no choice but to bring Orton back, and given the FA market and the state of the CBA, he's really got no choice. There isn't going to be a lot of options out there outside of the draft, and he'll lose the vets if he starts a rookie in there over Orton UNLESS Orton has a Plummer-esque collapse. And even then, he stands to lose the Vets if he puts a rookie in.

Taco John
12-28-2009, 12:34 AM
Keep around Doom and Orton, get rid of Marshall, and we'll get to see exactly how crappy Orton is next year, with his primary and almost only receiver is gone. Keep Marshall at all costs. Orton is expendable.


If the decision is Orton or Marshall, the obvious answer is Marshall.

I don't think that will be the case though. Orton will probably be given Franchise tender. And for that matter, Marshall could be as well. I hope they lock up Marshall though.

Taco John
12-28-2009, 12:41 AM
Wouldn't we need to franchise Dumervil? (Or is he restricted?)

I think it's easier to just extend him.

Orton knows there won't be a huge market out there for him. He's a guy much better suited to playing where he is than anywhere else. Offer him a 3 year deal worth enough to keep him happy and let's see what we can do with him.

In the meanwhile, sure... keep trying to develop something behind him.

Certainly, we need to have something better than Simms in the wings. That was a disaster.


When it comes to contracts, I always look at players as though I were their agent, and I'm looking out for their best interests. In Orton's case, I'd be making a case for a Matt Cassel deal. Anything less than 5 years would be unacceptable and 10 mil guaranteed would be unacceptable. And given the Broncos situation, I'd do everything I could to stick my foot on their throat. What are they going to do? Start Brandstater? Simms? Go with a rookie? If I'm Orton's agent, I see Josh as a young punk with something to prove THIS year, and Orton as his ticket to a third season. Right or wrong, if I'm an agent, this is how I see the Broncos situation, and the vulnerability that Josh has at QB is my ticket to what I need.

"Where else is Orton going to go" is the classic counter-measure. The answer to that is simple: have you seen the free agent list for 2010? Orton is at the top of the list with Jason Campbell at #2, and Chad Brokington and #3. It's pretty pathetic out there.

Popps
12-28-2009, 12:47 AM
When it comes to contracts, I always look at players as though I were their agent, and I'm looking out for their best interests. In Orton's case, I'd be making a case for a Matt Cassel deal. Anything less than 5 years would be unacceptable and 10 mil guaranteed would be unacceptable. And given the Broncos situation, I'd do everything I could to stick my foot on their throat. What are they going to do? Start Brandstater? Simms? Go with a rookie? If I'm Orton's agent, I see Josh as a young punk with something to prove THIS year, and Orton as his ticket to a third season. Right or wrong, if I'm an agent, this is how I see the Broncos situation, and the vulnerability that Josh has at QB is my ticket to what I need.

"Where else is Orton going to go" is the classic counter-measure. The answer to that is simple: have you seen the free agent list for 2010? Orton is at the top of the list with Jason Campbell at #2, and Chad Brokington and #3. It's pretty pathetic out there.

You have a point with the talent level available, and I'm sure his agent will do just as you say... but I don't think we'll pay him anywhere near Cassel's deal. McDaniels knows that Orton has some game, but is also successful because he's put him in a position to be so.

If Kyle's agent tried to get too cute, I actually wouldn't be shocked to see Josh go the other way. I don't think that will be the case, but as we've seen with Marshall, the Broncos front office appears to be in no mood to be pushed around.

Hopefully we can find a solution that keeps him around at a logical price. I think it's in everyone's best interest.

Taco John
12-28-2009, 12:59 AM
I shudder to think what the other way is.

I'm hoping for a single year tender and a top ten QB in the draft. And maybe Pennington as a back-up, though I have a feeling he want's a Jeff Garcia situation where he's a starter.

And lock up Doom and Marshall.

Popps
12-28-2009, 01:01 AM
The other way would be taking a huge leap of faith in a rookie or a guy like Brandstater or a random free agent and like you said, you run into a lot of potential issues with a move like that.

Things start slowly, and you lose a team with a lot of vets in a hurry.

Conversely, you keep Orton around, see how far you can go with him and build out the younger core of this team, including your future QB.

Taco John
12-28-2009, 01:06 AM
We agree on this topic. Orton is our best option, and we need to find a way to keep him around at a price that doesn't commit us to him for longer than we need him. I'd say a Cassel deal would be a huge mistake.

This is going to be one of the more interesting offseasons that we've had where contracts are concerned. McD is faced with some real chess moves here.

houghtam
12-28-2009, 01:10 AM
You just made the point yourself. YOU NEED TO BE A CRAPPY TEAM to get a great QB in most cases.

McNabb was picked using the #2 overall pick in the draft, Peyton Manning was the overall #1, Rivers was #3 and Rothlisberger was taken at #11.

Just because you draft early does not mean there will be a "Franchise" QB available, for every QB mentioned above you also have the Akili Smiths, Ryan Leafs and Matt Linarts of the world that go bust. Getting a top rated NFL QB is a crap shoot at best.

Do not mortgage the future when you have not secured the needed replacement. Keep Orton for now without breaking the bank and get a replacement before kicking him to the curb.

Rep. We're close to being a playoff team, but not close to being a dominant team.

Keep Orton for as long as needed and draft or obtain someone with more skills. Let Orton model game management to someone with "it".

Bronco Yoda
12-28-2009, 02:59 AM
It's a tough call but McD will go with Orton right now because he's been efficient and the O-line will be completely retooled first. Hopefully TB will develope!

Dr. Broncenstein
12-28-2009, 03:36 AM
The type of contract it will take to retain Orton next year will be substantial. Not the type of deal that equates to "keeping him around for another year." The only way around this would be to franchise tag him, which may be a smart move. I would expect Orton's agent to ask for a deal comparable to that signed by Marc Bulger a couple of years ago. Look at the Rosenfels deal -- 2 years / 9 million. That's backup money. Orton will command and get significantly more next year.

The team has no faith in Simms whatsoever, as evidenced by the quick hook against San Diego. He's gone next year. We'll have to draft someone just to replace Simms. That leaves Brandstatter, a rookie, and possibly Orton. A new deal for Orton means he is the man for the forseable future. Tagging Orton could bridge the gap to 2011 while McD continues to search for the long-term answer.

MplsBronco
12-28-2009, 07:11 AM
I don't necessarily disagree that Orton isn't the long term answer but turning to a QB in the draft means we are most assuredly 4-5 years out from doing anything significant. I wonder how many of you on here have the stomach for that.

Do I think this team can win in the playoffs with Orton? I most certainly do. This year, I have seen this team compete and in some cases win against quality teams on the road; SD, Indy, Philly, Cincy. We've also had some bad losses but we were in most of those games and just need to learn to find a way to win them in the end. I think that is a cultural hangover from the end of the Shanny era that I am hoping will be purged after this year.

I would rather see our draft and FA resources go to finding reall playmakers along the Dline/LB corp along with some real men alond the oline. And continue to plug in talent along the secondary and WR/RB.

Cito Pelon
12-28-2009, 07:31 AM
Orton is a pretty good NFl starter. The organization has a tough decision to make how they handle the QB situation. Maybe with some more coaching Orton can improve, I don't know.

He has good physical skills, good leadership skills, sometimes has the wow factor.

MplsBronco
12-28-2009, 07:42 AM
I don't think he is bad but he was 27 for 41 and only 189 yards to show for it. Something has to change. I don't remember ever seeing a QB throw 41 times and getting so little yards.

Do you not factor in playcalling in your assessment? I've never seen a team throw so many screens. But maybe that is a result of Orton being the QB. I don't know. But what I saw today was him executing the plays called.

meangene
12-28-2009, 07:47 AM
I think we will:

Sign Orton to a mid-level contract for a starting quarterback with plenty of incentives based on performance and playing time. I'm thinking maybe a three year deal.

Open the bank for Dummervil. Regardless of the CBA situation, this is the type of guy you want to lock up long-term and I feel comfortable paying him upper echelon money.

Sign Kuper to a mid-level contract for a starting OG with a nice signing bonus and a longer deal in the five year range.

Franchise Marshall. He will want at least top 5 WR money and we will want to see who is willing to give it to him and then decide if he has the mental make-up to handle a huge long-term deal or if we would be better off with the high draft picks we could get for him.

Make a serious run for Mankins in free agency. Great young player with no learning curve in the system. He will not come cheap but would be worth the money.

Pony Boy
12-28-2009, 07:48 AM
Orton is a pretty good NFl starter. The organization has a tough decision to make how they handle the QB situation. Maybe with some more coaching Orton can improve, I don't know.

He has good physical skills, good leadership skills, sometimes has the wow factor.

You hit the nail on the head, "Orton is a pretty good NFL starter" and that's the problem we are a pretty good team not a contender for the AFC west or the Super Bowl, just a pretty good team. We need to franchise Orton for a year and take our pick from Chicago and go after one of the rookies, it's the best draft class in years.

Denver724
12-28-2009, 07:57 AM
What about Tarvaris?

http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html

Top Quarterbacks
Age as of 9/1/10. All free agents listed here are done so with an optimistic outlook that a new CBA will be agreed upon. Accordingly, only four accrued seasons are necessary to obtain an Unrestricted Free Agency status on this list.
Kyle Orton, Denver Broncos (27)
Losing Orton for the second half against the Redskins and having him forced off the bench against San Diego showed Orton’s real value to Denver, as the offense became anemic with Chris Simms. Without his efficient passing, the Broncos really struggle to put points on the board. It’s surprising the Broncos haven’t already looked to extend Orton who just does a great job leading the offense to long scoring drives. Maybe they’re hoping to get a little more leverage should the CBA fall through, which could allow the Broncos to keep Orton on a restricted tender. If he’s allowed to hit the open market, all hell could break loose. Orton doesn’t carry the aura of a franchise quarterback, but has now managed two different offenses to winning records.
Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins (28)
A big week of 367 yards and 3 touchdowns in the heartbreaker against the Saints a couple weeks back showed Campbell's potential. His numbers are actually improved across the board everywhere from a season ago, except interceptions where his total has doubled in three less games. Campbell has played better over the second half of the season, but it seems like he’s played his way out of Washington, who seems ready to gamble for an elite quarterback than stick with the so-so Campbell. With a number of talented quarterbacks possibly lining up to enter the 2010 NFL Draft, in a best case scenario, Campbell could possibly get a 1-2 year deal to compete as the starter on a quarterback-starved team.
Chad Pennington, Miami Dolphins (34)
Pennington wasn’t finding the same success this year as he had in last year’s great campaign, even before suffering another season-ending injury. His shoulder injury luckily showed no damage to his rotator cuff which has already been operated on twice. He should be able to start throwing again in January, but is unlikely to be retained by the Dolphins where Chad Henne has shown promise as one of the league’s best young quarterbacks. Henne has the arm strength to stretch the defense, something Pennington has always been heavily criticized for lacking. A 33 year-old Chad Pennington coming off a third shoulder injury won’t garner much excitement in free agency, but may have the opportunity to compete for a one-year job on a needy team. Pennington doesn’t have age on his side, the arm strength, or the durability to be considered anything more than a stop-gap solution at this point in his career.
Tarvaris Jackson, Minnesota Vikings (27)
It’ll be interesting to see how a season behind Brett Favre will have changed Tarvaris Jackson. He looked like a player showing gradual improvement with the potential to finally turn the corner this year. Favre’s retirement decision will likely come down to the last moment again and will depend on he and his team’s play down the stretch of the season. If a new CBA isn’t agreed upon, Jackson will become a Restricted Free Agent in which Minnesota will most likely retain him. If not, his decision to stay or leave Minnesota could very well come down to how Favre’s decision turns out, or he could stick it out and go the Aaron Rodgers patience route. Regardless, in the sparing time he’s gotten this year in blowout wins over the Rams and Seahawks, Jackson has completed a high percent and has a 124.0 QB Rating on the year through 15 attempts. Keep in mind he was coming of a preseason rating of 118.4. In limited playing time, the numbers game heavily favors Jackson over the last year.
Kellen Clemens, New York Jets (27)
Drafting Mark Sanchez spelled the end of Kellen Clemens’ future in New York. He was rather disappointing in his duty as a starter, making little progress before this season. If Clemens is satisfied as a career back-up, he could decide to accept a small contract to play behind Sanchez. When he finally got the chance to play in Buffalo, after Sanchez’s injury, Clemens took 3 sacks, threw 2 passes, and ran twice against a tough Bills pass defense in 22 snaps. Against a below average Buccaneers defense, he was only able to muster 111 yards through the air, minimizing mistakes and allowing his defense and running game do the brunt of the work. Clemens didn’t have a particularly great game, but could compete for a starting position on one of the league’s lesser teams if the Jets let him walk.
Other Notable Free Agents:

Charlie Batch, Pittsburgh Steelers (35)
Kyle Boller, St. Louis Rams (29)
David Carr, New York Giants (31)
Brodie Croyle, Kansas City Chiefs (27)
Daunte Culpepper, Detroit Lions (33)
Rex Grossman, Houston Texans (30)
Joey Harrington, New Orleans Saints (31)
Jon Kitna, Dallas Cowboys (37)
Matt Moore, Carolina Panthers (26) – Restricted FA
Chris Redman, Atlanta Falcons (33)
Brett Ratliff, Cleveland Browns (25) – Exclusive Rights FA
Troy Smith, Baltimore Ravens (26) – Restricted FA

Mr.Meanie
12-28-2009, 08:10 AM
You guys are insane if you think Orton isn't going to get paid. This is his only opportunity to cash in on free agency, and he's going to get Cassell money... whether it's here or elsewhere.

I've seen some comments here saying he'll agree to $4M for 1 year. That's just ludicrous, and completely out of touch with the modern day economics of football.
He's the top FA QB out there, and it isn't even really close.

If his agent doesn't get him starting $ his agent will be a disgrace...and that ain't happening.

Denver724
12-28-2009, 08:24 AM
You guys are insane if you think Orton isn't going to get paid. This is his only opportunity to cash in on free agency, and he's going to get Cassell money... whether it's here or elsewhere.

I've seen some comments here saying he'll agree to $4M for 1 year. That's just ludicrous, and completely out of touch with the modern day economics of football.
He's the top FA QB out there, and it isn't even really close.

If his agent doesn't get him starting $ his agent will be a disgrace...and that ain't happening.

Well, if that's the case I hope he doesn't get it here.

Mr.Meanie
12-28-2009, 08:25 AM
Well, if that's the case I hope he doesn't get it here.

Great idea. Chris Simms ftw!

Cito Pelon
12-28-2009, 08:33 AM
How easy is to find a "great" QB? I agree we could have used one today, but there just aren't a whole lot of Mannings, Brees, Rivers, McNabbs out there. I'd be fine with drafting another QB in the draft, but lets not kid ourselves that a clearly better option than Orton will be sitting out there in free agency.

And the QB draftees maybe the grass isn't greener on that side of the fence either. Orton is a pretty good NFL starter, and maybe still has a little bit of upside with some intensive coaching.

It's gonna be a tough call for the organization as to how they handle the QB situation. Orton has his moments, and seeings how this is his first year with McD & Co. that has to be considered by us armchair coaches.

go_broncos
12-28-2009, 08:40 AM
You guys are insane if you think Orton isn't going to get paid. This is his only opportunity to cash in on free agency, and he's going to get Cassell money... whether it's here or elsewhere.

I've seen some comments here saying he'll agree to $4M for 1 year. That's just ludicrous, and completely out of touch with the modern day economics of football.
He's the top FA QB out there, and it isn't even really close.

If his agent doesn't get him starting $ his agent will be a disgrace...and that ain't happening.

Good for him..I hope some other team pays him.
If we pay Orton like cassell money, we are screwed.

Mr.Meanie
12-28-2009, 08:45 AM
Good for him..I hope some other team pays him.
If we pay Orton like cassell money, we are screwed.

How is that? Drafting a QB with a top 10 pick is going to be about the same money...

gtown
12-28-2009, 08:45 AM
You guys are insane if you think Orton isn't going to get paid. This is his only opportunity to cash in on free agency, and he's going to get Cassell money... whether it's here or elsewhere.

I've seen some comments here saying he'll agree to $4M for 1 year. That's just ludicrous, and completely out of touch with the modern day economics of football.
He's the top FA QB out there, and it isn't even really close.

If his agent doesn't get him starting $ his agent will be a disgrace...and that ain't happening.

This.

Orton has had a pretty good year and the QB free agent crop is non existent. He is gonna get paid regardless because the Broncos don't have another option ready.

I say hook him up for a few years and see which rookies fall to us in the draft this year and next year.

bronco militia
12-28-2009, 08:46 AM
This.

Orton has had a pretty good year and the QB free agent crop is non existent. He is gonna get paid regardless because the Broncos don't have another option ready.

I say hook him up for a few years and see which rookies fall to us in the draft this year and next year.

not really...he's a restricted free agent.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-28-2009, 08:47 AM
How is that? Drafting a QB with a top 10 pick is going to be about the same money...

True, and for a far worse result. Putting this offense in the hands of a rookie is going to be UGLY. We've got to keep Orton for at least a couple of years to bring along a rookie slowly.

rastaman
12-28-2009, 08:49 AM
Keep around Doom and Orton, get rid of Marshall, and we'll get to see exactly how crappy Orton is next year, with his primary and almost only receiver is gone. Keep Marshall at all costs. Orton is expendable.

How do you know if Marshall wants to sign a long term deal with a rebuilding team and continue to play with athletically challenged QB in Orton!

Marshall may want to test the waters and try to hook on with a team that has a QB with an NFL arm and a team thats ready to win now and who would be inclined to pay him top 5 money w/o all the drama.

Brandon Marshall has all the leverage this time around.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-28-2009, 08:50 AM
What about Tarvaris?

http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html

Top Quarterbacks
Age as of 9/1/10. All free agents listed here are done so with an optimistic outlook that a new CBA will be agreed upon. Accordingly, only four accrued seasons are necessary to obtain an Unrestricted Free Agency status on this list.
Kyle Orton, Denver Broncos (27)
Losing Orton for the second half against the Redskins and having him forced off the bench against San Diego showed Ortonís real value to Denver, as the offense became anemic with Chris Simms. Without his efficient passing, the Broncos really struggle to put points on the board. Itís surprising the Broncos havenít already looked to extend Orton who just does a great job leading the offense to long scoring drives. Maybe theyíre hoping to get a little more leverage should the CBA fall through, which could allow the Broncos to keep Orton on a restricted tender. If heís allowed to hit the open market, all hell could break loose. Orton doesnít carry the aura of a franchise quarterback, but has now managed two different offenses to winning records.
Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins (28)
A big week of 367 yards and 3 touchdowns in the heartbreaker against the Saints a couple weeks back showed Campbell's potential. His numbers are actually improved across the board everywhere from a season ago, except interceptions where his total has doubled in three less games. Campbell has played better over the second half of the season, but it seems like heís played his way out of Washington, who seems ready to gamble for an elite quarterback than stick with the so-so Campbell. With a number of talented quarterbacks possibly lining up to enter the 2010 NFL Draft, in a best case scenario, Campbell could possibly get a 1-2 year deal to compete as the starter on a quarterback-starved team.
Chad Pennington, Miami Dolphins (34)
Pennington wasnít finding the same success this year as he had in last yearís great campaign, even before suffering another season-ending injury. His shoulder injury luckily showed no damage to his rotator cuff which has already been operated on twice. He should be able to start throwing again in January, but is unlikely to be retained by the Dolphins where Chad Henne has shown promise as one of the leagueís best young quarterbacks. Henne has the arm strength to stretch the defense, something Pennington has always been heavily criticized for lacking. A 33 year-old Chad Pennington coming off a third shoulder injury wonít garner much excitement in free agency, but may have the opportunity to compete for a one-year job on a needy team. Pennington doesnít have age on his side, the arm strength, or the durability to be considered anything more than a stop-gap solution at this point in his career.
Tarvaris Jackson, Minnesota Vikings (27)
Itíll be interesting to see how a season behind Brett Favre will have changed Tarvaris Jackson. He looked like a player showing gradual improvement with the potential to finally turn the corner this year. Favreís retirement decision will likely come down to the last moment again and will depend on he and his teamís play down the stretch of the season. If a new CBA isnít agreed upon, Jackson will become a Restricted Free Agent in which Minnesota will most likely retain him. If not, his decision to stay or leave Minnesota could very well come down to how Favreís decision turns out, or he could stick it out and go the Aaron Rodgers patience route. Regardless, in the sparing time heís gotten this year in blowout wins over the Rams and Seahawks, Jackson has completed a high percent and has a 124.0 QB Rating on the year through 15 attempts. Keep in mind he was coming of a preseason rating of 118.4. In limited playing time, the numbers game heavily favors Jackson over the last year.
Kellen Clemens, New York Jets (27)
Drafting Mark Sanchez spelled the end of Kellen Clemensí future in New York. He was rather disappointing in his duty as a starter, making little progress before this season. If Clemens is satisfied as a career back-up, he could decide to accept a small contract to play behind Sanchez. When he finally got the chance to play in Buffalo, after Sanchezís injury, Clemens took 3 sacks, threw 2 passes, and ran twice against a tough Bills pass defense in 22 snaps. Against a below average Buccaneers defense, he was only able to muster 111 yards through the air, minimizing mistakes and allowing his defense and running game do the brunt of the work. Clemens didnít have a particularly great game, but could compete for a starting position on one of the leagueís lesser teams if the Jets let him walk.
Other Notable Free Agents:

Charlie Batch, Pittsburgh Steelers (35)
Kyle Boller, St. Louis Rams (29)
David Carr, New York Giants (31)
Brodie Croyle, Kansas City Chiefs (27)
Daunte Culpepper, Detroit Lions (33)
Rex Grossman, Houston Texans (30)
Joey Harrington, New Orleans Saints (31)
Jon Kitna, Dallas Cowboys (37)
Matt Moore, Carolina Panthers (26) Ė Restricted FA
Chris Redman, Atlanta Falcons (33)
Brett Ratliff, Cleveland Browns (25) Ė Exclusive Rights FA
Troy Smith, Baltimore Ravens (26) Ė Restricted FA

Woof. That's an ugly list.

Of those guys, I'd prefer Orton or Campbell. Hard to believe that Pennington is in his mid 30's...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-28-2009, 08:51 AM
How do you know if Marshall wants to sign a long term deal with a rebuilding team and continue to play with athletically challenged QB in Orton!

Marshall may want to test the waters and try to hook on with a team that has a QB with an NFL arm and a team thats ready to win now and who would be inclined to pay him top 5 money w/o all the drama.

Brandon Marshall has all the leverage this time around.

As usual, you're wrong. Doesn't it get exhausting?

Marshall has no leverage. he's a RESTRICTED free agent, which means the Broncos hold most of the cards, and can hook him for at least one more year with the franchise tag.

Go fish.

Mr.Meanie
12-28-2009, 08:56 AM
How do you know if Marshall wants to sign a long term deal with a rebuilding team and continue to play with athletically challenged QB in Orton!

Marshall may want to test the waters and try to hook on with a team that has a QB with an NFL arm and a team thats ready to win now and who would be inclined to pay him top 5 money w/o all the drama.

Brandon Marshall has all the leverage this time around.

lol. BMarsh just set an NFL record with Orton under center, and has over 100 catches, over 1000 yards, and 10 touchdowns so far this year.

Or were you just making a joke?

Cito Pelon
12-28-2009, 09:06 AM
Supporting an Orton return is supporting another season of not making the post season. Do you really think we can win with Orton? Really?

Orton has his moments. 20 TD's, 9 INT's. INT's kill, you know that, I know that, everybody knows that.

Orton has 38 TD's, 21 INT's in his last 30 games, and he's still a young guy. As I said before the organization has a tough decision to make, and it's not like the potential draftees at QB have a wow factor.

Orton I think still has some upside.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-28-2009, 09:10 AM
lol. BMarsh just set an NFL record with Orton under center, and has over 100 catches, over 1000 yards, and 10 touchdowns so far this year.

Or were you just making a joke?

Pretty much every time he posts.

Popps
12-28-2009, 09:15 AM
How do you know if Marshall wants to sign a long term deal with a rebuilding team and continue to play with athletically challenged QB in Orton!.

Marshall has caught more TDs with Orton than he did with Cutler.

His yardage numbers will end up almost identical.

He set a record for receptions.



Honestly, you should find another hobby.

bronco610
12-28-2009, 09:17 AM
lol. BMarsh just set an NFL record with Orton under center, and has over 100 catches, over 1000 yards, and 10 touchdowns so far this year.

Or were you just making a joke?

I have not been an Orton basher and I think for now he is our stop gap QB. The point I have to agree with rasta is if he can accomplish a record with orton he may think he could do more with a brady, Manning or Romo.

Pony Boy
12-28-2009, 09:17 AM
Marshall may want to test the waters and try to hook on with a team that has a QB with an NFL arm and a team thats ready to win now and who would be inclined to pay him top 5 money w/o all the drama. Brandon Marshall has all the leverage this time around.

Marshall will owe Orton a little stimilus money..... The way I see it Orton helped Marshall put togeter one nice highlight reel ......... The circus catches of the bad throws will surely dive up his value.

Mr.Meanie
12-28-2009, 10:02 AM
I have not been an Orton basher and I think for now he is our stop gap QB. The point I have to agree with rasta is if he can accomplish a record with orton he may think he could do more with a brady, Manning or Romo.

I don't think there's one person here would would disagree with that (except maybe Romo).

Every single team would love to have a Rivers, Brady, Manning. The problem is in finding them. The NFL is littered with 1st round QBs who didn't pan out (Russell, Lienart, Young, Harrington, Smith) and if you take a high 1st round pick you are gambling the next 5 years on a crapshoot.

Look at the most successful franchises and you have your blueprint for developing elite talent. Packers (Rodgers), Eagles (Schaub, Kolb), Pats (Brady) all had good starters and let their rookies develop for several years before they even got close to the field. The only reason Brady started was Bledsoe went down, or you can bet he would have rode that season out on the bench.

I believe McD understands that, and unless he feels like Orton is unable to effectively run his system, Orton will be here for a while. I have a feeling he'll take another QB prospect in the later rounds, and have Brandstater and the rookie duel it out for 2nd string next year. This years pick will either be traded down, or spent on defense (CB, ILB, DE).

bronco610
12-28-2009, 12:50 PM
I don't think there's one person here would would disagree with that (except maybe Romo).

Every single team would love to have a Rivers, Brady, Manning. The problem is in finding them. The NFL is littered with 1st round QBs who didn't pan out (Russell, Lienart, Young, Harrington, Smith) and if you take a high 1st round pick you are gambling the next 5 years on a crapshoot.

Look at the most successful franchises and you have your blueprint for developing elite talent. Packers (Rodgers), Eagles (Schaub, Kolb), Pats (Brady) all had good starters and let their rookies develop for several years before they even got close to the field. The only reason Brady started was Bledsoe went down, or you can bet he would have rode that season out on the bench.

I believe McD understands that, and unless he feels like Orton is unable to effectively run his system, Orton will be here for a while. I have a feeling he'll take another QB prospect in the later rounds, and have Brandstater and the rookie duel it out for 2nd string next year. This years pick will either be traded down, or spent on defense (CB, ILB, DE).

No arguement on that. I just want a QB who can make all the throws. I think Brandstater might be the guy. I don't know that for sure. I do not think we need a superstar in this system, but I do think Orton is not the long time answer.

Elway777
12-30-2009, 05:38 AM
All the Broncos need to do is offer Orton a first round tender offer which could be around 3 million if no CBA is reached. They should offer both Kuper and Scheffler 2 round tender offers and keep them or get a 2 round draft pick.Give Orton another year to prove himself.Players must have 6 years experience to become UFA. They could also offer Marshall and Dumervil first round tender but would be better signing them long term. The Broncos might be about 60 million under the cap this year.
.

rastaman
12-30-2009, 06:12 AM
I think McDaniels will continue to keep his eyes open. But, I suspect his opinion of Orton is higher than you make it out to be.

Just a gut feeling.

McD had better keep his eyes open as far as what he's facing with Orton at the QB position going forward.

gyldenlove
12-30-2009, 07:20 AM
It seems to me that Mcdaniels doesn't trust Orton to throw deep, which is a real problem since that means opposing defenses can leave their defenders close to the LOS which renders our run game useless.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-30-2009, 07:26 AM
It seems to me that Mcdaniels doesn't trust Orton to throw deep, which is a real problem since that means opposing defenses can leave their defenders close to the LOS which renders our run game useless.

I think it's more of an o-line problem. When the line gives you time, you can go down field with ease. What we saw in the first half of the Eagles game was that they weren't bringing any serious pressure, and were still reaching the QB with three and four men (rather than 5-6). Longer plays take longer to develop, MUST have time for Orton to step into the throw. If he's getting hit, you're going to see more bubble screens and crossing routes to try and get the defense to stay back, but ultimately, if there's an issue with the o-line, you're not going to be able to go deep.