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oubronco
12-23-2009, 07:29 AM
Cornerback Carter surprise of Broncos' rookie class
By Lindsay H. Jones
The Denver Post
Posted: 12/23/2009 01:00:00 AM MST


Denver Broncos defenders Tony Carter, left, and Wesley Woodyard bring down the Oakland Raiders Gary Russell during the third quarter of play Sunday December 20, 2009 at Invesco Field at Mile High. (Joe Amon | The Denver Post)It was midway through the second quarter of Sunday's game against Oakland, and the phone to the Broncos' public relations staff kept ringing.

Each time the caller — from the CBS television crew and beyond — wanted to know the same thing: Who is that guy in the No. 25 jersey, the cornerback who in that quarter alone knocked down two passes in the end zone?

Each time, the Denver staff member would politely answer that it was Tony Carter, a rookie from Florida State, who was making his NFL debut as the Broncos' nickel cornerback. Carter was signed off the team's practice squad just a day earlier. Against the Raiders, he had two tackles, recovered a fumble and was credited with a pass breakup.

"They pretty much told me, 'We're throwing you in the fire,' " Carter said. "The vets, it was easy playing around them because they were making sure I was on top of every move."

While Carter's play in his first NFL game was a pleasant surprise, it was yet another reminder of the struggles of another Denver rookie cornerback, Alphonso Smith, the No. 37 overall pick in the April draft. The Broncos liked Smith so much, they traded their 2010 first-round pick to Seattle to get him. But Smith has played sparingly and twice been passed over.

The first time came when the Broncos signed 35-year-old cornerback Ty Law on Nov. 7. Two days later, Law played ahead of Smith against Pittsburgh. Then came Sunday against the Raiders, when the Denver coaches chose Carter to replace Law, who was out with a hamstring injury. When Smith came into the game after Carter exited with muscle cramps, he struggled. He was beaten by Oakland's Chaz Schilens on the 10-yard touchdown reception with 35 seconds left that helped the Raiders win 20-19.
"You've got to make plays to get on the field in this league," Denver defensive coordinator Mike Nolan said. "The playmakers get on, and when you're on — whether it's to shut the guy down that you're on, or actually get the ball in your hands — in some form or fashion you've got to do the job you're assigned to."

Smith was the third cornerback drafted this year, and one of six taken through two rounds. Four other rookie cornerbacks have at least two interceptions this season, including NFL interception leader Jairus Byrd. Taken by Buffalo five spots behind Smith, Byrd has nine picks.

This is the point of the season when teams are expecting big contributions from their highest draft picks. But the Broncos, who had five picks in the first two rounds, haven't had a breakout rookie star.

Running back Knowshon Moreno, the Broncos' first selection and the No. 12 overall pick, easily leads NFL rookie rushers with 879 yards but has yet to have a 100-yard game. And outside linebacker Robert Ayers, the No. 18 overall pick, has played plenty on defense and special teams but with limited impact. He has yet to record a sack.

Smith might be the most perplexing pick of them all. The Atlantic Coast Conference's career leader in interceptions after four years at Wake Forest, he was all but handed the Broncos' nickel cornerback job. But he hasn't been able to hold it.

"I understand that this is a different experience for all of the rookies," said Denver coach Josh McDaniels, when asked about Smith.

Asked how Smith gets more playing time, Nolan said: "It's just maturity. It's no different than growing up. There are lessons you've got to learn on the field."

Lindsay Jones: 303-954-1262 or ljones@denverpost.com

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14052805#ixzz0aWPfz1IU

Rookie roundup

The Broncos had three picks among the top 40 selections in the 2009 NFL draft. A look at how each compares with the peers at his position:

Knowshon Moreno

Position: Running back. Selection: No. 12 overall, first running back drafted. Stats: 879 yards rushing, most among NFL rookies. But he's averaging 3.9 yards per carry, behind rookies such as Arizona's Chris Wells (4.6), Indianapolis' Donald Brown (4.5) and Philadelphia's LeSean McCoy (4.1).

Robert Ayers

Position: Outside linebacker. Selection: No. 18 overall, fifth outside linebacker-defensive end drafted. Stats: 14 tackles, three quarterback hits, no sacks. This year 35 rookies — from all defensive positions — have at least one sack. Washington's Brian Orakpo, the No. 13 pick, leads with 11 sacks.

Alphonso Smith

Position: Cornerback. Selection: No. 37 overall. Stats: 11 total tackles, including one for a loss, and three pass breakups but no interceptions. This year eight rookie cornerbacks have at least one interception. The league leader, Buffalo's Jairus Byrd, has nine. Byrd was drafted five picks after Smith.

Lindsay H. Jones, The Denver Post



http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_14052805#ixzz0aWR4Z5Hf




Carter played pretty well for his first game and for all the guys calling for Smith's head this is why Smith was on the field late in the game

Wes Mantooth
12-23-2009, 07:44 AM
Well, at leastnow I have someone to blame it on.

Denver724
12-23-2009, 08:12 AM
Yep, Carter showed more play making skills in one game than I have seen from Smith all season. Here is hoping that a tremendous off-season turns Smith and Ayers into true impact players.

Dagmar
12-23-2009, 10:24 AM
Rookies don't even get one season round here from these veteran football fans. Nope.

Crushisback
12-23-2009, 10:33 AM
I'm still holding out hope fore Smith and Ayers. These are two players that relied heavily on superior athleticism in college. Players like this are somtimes slow to come around in the pros where they HAVE to have sound techniques.

As far as Moreno goes, I think he and everyone else on this offense will be better next after getting comfortable with the system.

WolfpackGuy
12-23-2009, 10:37 AM
My problem isn't with Smith, just what they gave up for him.

Dagmar
12-23-2009, 10:46 AM
My problem isn't with Smith, just what they gave up for him.

Maybe, but that is why he will never get a fair shake around here.

Rabb
12-23-2009, 10:49 AM
Maybe, but that is why he will never get a fair shake around here.

zackly

God forbid we let someone develop, not breaking off 2k as a back or making the pro bowl as a rookie corner?

OUTTA HERE!!!

misturanderson
12-23-2009, 11:45 AM
Isn't Jarius Byrd a safety?

KipCorrington25
12-23-2009, 11:53 AM
Unfortunatly with rookie running backs there isn't much to develop, what you see is what you get, in this case, slow, injury prone, fumble prone, hold out prone, undersized and breaks less tackles than Selvyn Young if that is even humanly possible... Basically Gerald Willhite reincarnate

outdoor_miner
12-23-2009, 12:07 PM
You are right - never in the history of football has a running back struggled to start his career.

As for this thread - it is quite disconcerting that an UDFA is having more of an impact than Smith. I've made a lot of excuses for Smith throughout the year, but it's pretty clear that Nolan & McD aren't very happy with his progression.

With that being said - I will readily acknowledge that all hope is not lost. I thought he looked really good the first two games of the year, and hopefully he can regroup this offseason and become a player.

Lastly... This situation should serve as proof to some of those people claiming that McDaniels "plays favorites" (ie. Hillis). If McD was concerned with perception, Smith would be playing come hell or high-water. It looks bad to have your controversial pick sitting on the sidelines behind an UDFA. Clearly, McD will play the guys that he thinks give the team the best chance to win. For whatever reason, he doesn't think Hillis provides that. BUT, Smith is one of McDaniels "boys". He traded a first to pick him up. Despite that, he is sitting on the sidelines, just like Hillis.

Rabb
12-23-2009, 12:13 PM
Unfortunatly with rookie running backs there isn't much to develop, what you see is what you get, in this case, slow, injury prone, fumble prone, hold out prone, undersized and breaks less tackles than Selvyn Young if that is even humanly possible... Basically Gerald Willhite reincarnate

BS

I am not saying KM is the second coming, but I imagine there is a general adjustment to the speed of the game and nuances

Tom G
12-23-2009, 12:13 PM
Rationalize all you want, but our three '09 #1 draft choices were not good values. Put it another way, if the Broncos could redo those choices with what they know now, they would go in a different direction.

Yeah, I know, hindsight is great and my comments may be unfair but I was really upset at the time with the Moreno and Smith picks. I did like the Ayers pick as a reasonable gamble for the future. But Moreno was significantly overrated and trading a 1st for a 2nd is pretty dumb in any man's league.

tsiguy96
12-23-2009, 12:20 PM
Rationalize all you want, but our three '09 #1 draft choices were not good values. Put it another way, if the Broncos could redo those choices with what they know now, they would go in a different direction.

Yeah, I know, hindsight is great and my comments may be unfair but I was really upset at the time with the Moreno and Smith picks. I did like the Ayers pick as a reasonable gamble for the future. But Moreno was significantly overrated and trading a 1st for a 2nd is pretty dumb in any man's league.

a LOT of teams would change their picks if they could. hindisight is a wonderful thing.

and the packers traded a 1st for 2nd round pick favre 100 years ago...

NFLBRONCO
12-23-2009, 12:20 PM
Its a dumb trade period esp in a deep draft. I do think Smith deserves time though its not his fault we traded for him.

mellow mood
12-23-2009, 12:24 PM
i was in front of the tv when the trade flashed and i thought for sure it was for Rey Maualuga

i about fell out when i read alphonso smith as i didn't even know who he was.

he still has time to improve but damn it needs to happen quick

tsiguy96
12-23-2009, 12:27 PM
Its a dumb trade period esp in a deep draft. I do think Smith deserves time though its not his fault we traded for him.

atleast someone understands personally insulting the players is kind of ridiculous. they dont choose to be here, they didnt choose to get drafted...

Tom G
12-23-2009, 12:29 PM
Not to be totally negative here, since I really like our 2 young safeties drafted after Smith and also FA Carter, all 3 who take some of the sting out of the Smith pick. We now have a really good gaggle of young safeties, both in quality and in depth.

broncofan7
12-23-2009, 12:31 PM
Smith was the third cornerback drafted this year, and one of six taken through two rounds. Four other rookie cornerbacks have at least two interceptions this season, including NFL interception leader Jairus Byrd. Taken by Buffalo five spots behind Smith, Byrd has nine picks.


Alphonso SMITH- EPIC FAIL for McD/ Xanders


add this to McGenius and the colonel missing on both Ayers and moreno...and why would any logical person think that we can rely upon Mcd/xanders to build us thru the draft??? paging jim goodman.......




























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Beantown Bronco
12-23-2009, 12:42 PM
Unfortunatly with rookie running backs there isn't much to develop, what you see is what you get, in this case, slow, injury prone, fumble prone, hold out prone, undersized and breaks less tackles than Selvyn Young if that is even humanly possible... Basically Gerald Willhite reincarnate

Wow. Literally not one single statement in this post is accurate. Congrats on that.

2KBack
12-23-2009, 12:43 PM
Not to be totally negative here, since I really like our 2 young safeties drafted after Smith and also FA Carter, all 3 who take some of the sting out of the Smith pick. We now have a really good gaggle of young safeties, both in quality and in depth.

Funny isn't it? People love to bash when a higher pick us struggling, then refuse to give credit when their lower picks are making contributions. It's called focusing on the negative, and it's a real problem around here.

Dagmar
12-23-2009, 12:46 PM
Alphonso SMITH- EPIC FAIL for McD/ Xanders


add this to McGenius and the colonel missing on both Ayers and moreno...and why would any logical person think that we can rely upon Mcd/xanders to build us thru the draft??? paging jim goodman.......




























Search
I have a question. Jarvis Moss? Tim Crowder? Marcus Thomas? 3/4 of the 2007 class. Drafted by Jim Goodman/Shanny. Good class or epic fail?

Posts like this bull**** make this a pretty boring place to visit, not that Taco gives a flying **** these days.

broncofan7
12-23-2009, 12:50 PM
I have a question. Jarvis Moss? Tim Crowder? Marcus Thomas? 3/4 of the 2007 class. Drafted by Jim Goodman/Shanny. Good class or epic fail?

Posts like this bull**** make this a pretty boring place to visit, not that Taco gives a flying **** these days.

and were any of those drafted in the SECOND ROUND WHILE GIVING UP A FIRST ROUNDER FOR THE RIGHTS TO MAKE A SELECTION IN THE SECOND ROUND????

posters like you really make this place quite entertaining with your never ending irrational stupidity on full display with each and every keystroke..........

Dagmar
12-23-2009, 12:54 PM
and were any of those drafted in the SECOND ROUND WHILE GIVING UP A FIRST ROUNDER FOR THE RIGHTS TO MAKE A SELECTION IN THE SECOND ROUND????

posters like you really make this place quite entertaining with your never ending irrational stupidity on full display with each and every keystroke..........

We traded up for Jarvis Moss.

So you are again saying that you are arguing for Goodman and Shanny's drafts? Like the one where 3/4 were complete busts and we traded up for the 1st round bust who wanted to quit football this off season because he is so ****?

Dagmar
12-23-2009, 12:57 PM
and were any of those drafted in the SECOND ROUND WHILE GIVING UP A FIRST ROUNDER FOR THE RIGHTS TO MAKE A SELECTION IN THE SECOND ROUND????

posters like you really make this place quite entertaining with your never ending irrational stupidity on full display with each and every keystroke..........

http://salonvansisyphus.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/capslock.jpg

http://stalkingelmo.net/random/funny_pics/CapsLock.jpg

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/caps_lock.jpg

McDman
12-23-2009, 12:57 PM
It truly amazes me that these kids aren't given a year to develop, it's either they're superstars their rookie year or they're busts.

Some people on this board have some of the most unfounded logic, it's truly unbelievable.

oubronco
12-23-2009, 12:58 PM
Rusty we all know you have been waiting a long time to post that LOL

Dagmar
12-23-2009, 01:01 PM
Denver traded its first-round selection, its second third-round selection, and its sixth-round selection (21st, 86th, and 198th overall, used to select Reggie Nelson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Nelson), Marshal Yanda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal_Yanda), and Doug Datish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Datish), respectively) to Jacksonville for Jacksonville's first-round selection (17th overall, used to select Jarvis Moss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarvis_Moss))



Reggie Nelson -
Nelson was selected by the Jaguars in the first round (21st overall) of the 2007 NFL Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_Draft). After the departure of free safety Deon Grant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deon_Grant) via free agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_agent) and release of strong safety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_safety) Donovin Darius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donovin_Darius), Nelson led the Jaguars with seven tackles in their season opener against the Tennessee Titans in his first NFL game. He also sacked Tennessee quarterback Vince Young (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Young), causing a forced fumble.
He ended the year with 63 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble and 5 interceptions.

tonngo0
12-23-2009, 01:06 PM
You are right - never in the history of football has a running back struggled to start his career.

As for this thread - it is quite disconcerting that an UDFA is having more of an impact than Smith. I've made a lot of excuses for Smith throughout the year, but it's pretty clear that Nolan & McD aren't very happy with his progression.

With that being said - I will readily acknowledge that all hope is not lost. I thought he looked really good the first two games of the year, and hopefully he can regroup this offseason and become a player.

Lastly... This situation should serve as proof to some of those people claiming that McDaniels "plays favorites" (ie. Hillis). If McD was concerned with perception, Smith would be playing come hell or high-water. It looks bad to have your controversial pick sitting on the sidelines behind an UDFA. Clearly, McD will play the guys that he thinks give the team the best chance to win. For whatever reason, he doesn't think Hillis provides that. BUT, Smith is one of McDaniels "boys". He traded a first to pick him up. Despite that, he is sitting on the sidelines, just like Hillis.

Sorry, but I still think Jack Williams was a better player than Smith even now. When the Broncos signed Ty Law, what did McD did, cut Williams, even Williams was playing a little bit better than Smith. Oh well, like I said before you can't cut your high draft choice that early.

tonngo0
12-23-2009, 01:09 PM
Denver traded its first-round selection, its second third-round selection, and its sixth-round selection (21st, 86th, and 198th overall, used to select Reggie Nelson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Nelson), Marshal Yanda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal_Yanda), and Doug Datish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Datish), respectively) to Jacksonville for Jacksonville's first-round selection (17th overall, used to select Jarvis Moss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarvis_Moss))



Reggie Nelson -
Nelson was selected by the Jaguars in the first round (21st overall) of the 2007 NFL Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_Draft). After the departure of free safety Deon Grant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deon_Grant) via free agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_agent) and release of strong safety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_safety) Donovin Darius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donovin_Darius), Nelson led the Jaguars with seven tackles in their season opener against the Tennessee Titans in his first NFL game. He also sacked Tennessee quarterback Vince Young (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Young), causing a forced fumble.
He ended the year with 63 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble and 5 interceptions.


Yep this was a move I thought was not neccessary either, I think this was bone headed move back then.

Popps
12-23-2009, 01:11 PM
Rookies don't even get one season round here from these veteran football fans. Nope.

Well, look... you've got some guy feeding Schlitz malt liquor to his cat and posting updates about it calling our coach an idiot because of the way he approaches the draft.

We need to hit 3-4 players in each draft. That's about your average-good draft.
A play-maker, a starter or two and some STs guys.

Doesn't matter what round we find them. (Ask Shanahnan.) Just find some good players in each draft. It appears to me we've done that, and we're barely out of the first season.

People just need something to whine about. We're a winning team, so they whine about abstract **** like losing a few slots in the late first round... as if the other pick we might have taken a few higher was a sure thing.



Sometimes you have to just turn down the volume and enjoy the season. Now is a good time to do that.

tonngo0
12-23-2009, 01:16 PM
It truly amazes me that these kids aren't given a year to develop, it's either they're superstars their rookie year or they're busts.

Some people on this board have some of the most unfounded logic, it's truly unbelievable.

The reason Smith was drafted cause McD was in love with Smith is 1st round talent in CB and a big bonus in kick return. Well the problem is that Smith has not shown anything at all in 14 games. He should be at least shown some kick return ability. It does not take a year to develop on kick return, you either have it or you don't.

Dagmar
12-23-2009, 01:17 PM
http://i46.tinypic.com/11v2ngz.png

http://i48.tinypic.com/98edfl.png

Guess which one Shanny/Goodman traded up for. Guess which one Jacksonvill took with our pick 5 spots lower?

Given the team names are there this contest is not difficult... :giggle:

outdoor_miner
12-23-2009, 01:18 PM
Sorry, but I still think Jack Williams was a better player than Smith even now. When the Broncos signed Ty Law, what did McD did, cut Williams, even Williams was playing a little bit better than Smith. Oh well, like I said before you can't cut your high draft choice that early.

Williams was a "dime a dozen" guy (in my opinion). Maybe Smith is, too... I don't know. Smith was rated as a late first / early second by pretty much everyone, though, so I think his potential far exceeds Williams'.

When Williams was cut, I had a feeling that the Broncos had someone on the practice squad that they thought had as much potential, which gave them the luxury of signing Law. Clearly, that guy is Carter.

Beantown Bronco
12-23-2009, 01:19 PM
Well the problem is that Smith has not shown anything at all in 14 games.

That's categorically false. Even the haters around here acknowledged that their dislike of him now stems largely from the fact that he actually looked pretty good when he saw the field in the first few weeks and lately seems to have regressed in their opinion.

tonngo0
12-23-2009, 01:37 PM
That's categorically false. Even the haters around here acknowledged that their dislike of him now stems largely from the fact that he actually looked pretty good when he saw the field in the first few weeks and lately seems to have regressed in their opinion.

I have never seen Smith played good at all. Maybe the coach should not have him doing too much in the begining and have him just concentrate on being a CB and that might help his progress. I think when a coach falls in love with a certain player and trade for him especially trading high draft choice set that kid up to fail. Just like when Shanny traded for Moss there were exponential expecatation. I even love Moss when he was a beast in the Fiesta Bowl game, but still dislike giving up so much to get him from the beginning.

WolfpackGuy
12-23-2009, 01:49 PM
"AFC West draft rewind
December, 23, 2009 3:00PM ET
By Bill Williamson

» NFC Draft Rewind: East | West | North | South » AFC: East | West | North | South

» Draft class lists: Denver | Kansas City | Oakland | San Diego

Examining the draft classes of each division team:

Denver

Moreno

Biggest surprise: The surprise is how little production the class has given Denver. The Broncos had 10 picks and just haven’t gotten much out of the group. Top-pick running back Knowshon Moreno has been decent, but he has not been as productive as you would want from the No. 12 overall pick.

Jury is still out: First-round pick Robert Ayers. The No. 18 overall pick just hasn’t done much. Denver hasn’t had to rely on the pass rushing linebacker, but the team would like to see more from him.

Bust alert: Cornerback/returner Alphonso Smith has not made much of an impact. He gave up critical plays in the past two games, both Denver losses. He was benched in favor of rookie Tony Carter against the Raiders as the nickel corner. Carter was on the practice squad until one day before the Oakland game. Denver gave its top pick next year to draft Smith, who was selected No. 37 overall. He has the talent, but has yet to show it."

Courtesy of Burger Bill on ESPN

broncofan7
12-23-2009, 02:50 PM
We traded up for Jarvis Moss.



we gave up a first rounder to draft him in the 2nd? REALLY? THAT ALONE MAKES THIS FAILURE MORE NOTEWORTHY THAN ANYTHING SHANNY DID.....

broncosteven
12-23-2009, 03:00 PM
*cough* *cough* ed reed *cough*

Caveat Lector
12-23-2009, 03:09 PM
People need to look a bit deeper than just saying 'we traded a 1st for a second'. We had 2 1sts in '09 and 2 1sts in '10 which is not monetarily desirable. McD could have looked ahead and said 'we might end up having 2 top 10s next year which will cost us a fortune, lets go after a guy we really like (Smith) and get him cheaply in the 2nd round'. This in turn frees up cash to make a run at free agency which is more of a sure bet than an unproven draft prospect who could turn out to be a bust. It's a smart and frugal way to operate.

People were also banging on about how Mangini let the Jets move up too easily to get Sanchez, yet now Holmgren has come in and found that the Browns saved millions from the move and are in a far better situation than most thought.

Bottom line, McD thought he could get a bargain in taking Smith and he still might get one. Lets look at what salary Seattle pay for our pick and look at his rookie production, then evaluate if the Smith pick was so 'boneheaded'...

Triplelefthook
12-23-2009, 03:54 PM
I have a question. Jarvis Moss? Tim Crowder? Marcus Thomas? 3/4 of the 2007 class. Drafted by Jim Goodman/Shanny. Good class or epic fail?

Posts like this bull**** make this a pretty boring place to visit, not that Taco gives a flying **** these days.

All three of those were Bates picks

Popcorn Sutton
12-23-2009, 07:06 PM
and were any of those drafted in the SECOND ROUND WHILE GIVING UP A FIRST ROUNDER FOR THE RIGHTS TO MAKE A SELECTION IN THE SECOND ROUND????

posters like you really make this place quite entertaining with your never ending irrational stupidity on full display with each and every keystroke..........

Damn, the biggest douche on this board is back. This place just got a whole lot worse.