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View Full Version : Speculate: Who's gone next year and why?


orinjkrush
12-22-2009, 06:15 PM
I know, I know this year's not over...

but people have been talking draft and implosion and stuff, so thinking about how this year's roster has changed...


I speculate that (but am not proponent for!):

Brandon.....traded....(why?).....payback
Hillis..........traded......he's already been traded in substance
Scheffler...............he wants to play on Sunday
Hamilton..................done
Doomerville...............trade value....arrrrrrghhh
Moss.........traded or dumped....where the heck is Bates now anyhow?
Simms.......dumped....rather eat that cap hit
Le Kevin Smith.........didn't show enough
Woodyard.....dumped for the roster spot

others?

next year could be as tumultuous as, or weirder than, this year.....

peacepipe
12-22-2009, 06:38 PM
Orton: Not good enough to get the long term contract he's gonna want.
woodyard: too small to play in a 3-4 alignment(IMO)
Moss: too little too late
Simms: just not a good fit for this system

DBroncos4life
12-22-2009, 06:38 PM
We won't win 5 games next year if Marshall isn't on this team.

Mr
12-22-2009, 06:48 PM
62 Casey Wiegmann, Center

Height: 6' 2"
Weight: 285 lbs.
College: Iowa
Born: in Parkersburg, Iowa
Acquired: Unrestricted Free Agent (Kansas City), 2008
Pro Year: 14th
Year with Broncos: 2nd
NFL Games Played/Started: 192/165
Postseason: 2/2

OBF1
12-22-2009, 06:55 PM
Why would McDaniels cut Brandon Stokley??? He is one of the Patriot cast offs?

Moss: Like I need to explain this Shannahan BUST
Hillis: Square peg, round hole
Jordan: age, useless
Hamilton: Old and too small for the new system we are trying to install
Simms : If I have to tell you, you are too stupid to understand
Scheffler: Does not fit into the plans
Wiegmann: OLD and gets beaten like a drum
Berger: Old, has to be better out there
Ty Law: Dirt is younger than he is. Will only get older and slower

A couple others I would like to be gone, but will not.

NYBronco
12-22-2009, 07:02 PM
Berger, do I really need to splain why?

Mr
12-22-2009, 07:03 PM
Berger, do I really need to splain why?

Nothing like a 12 yd punt to keep your job secure.

DBroncos4life
12-22-2009, 07:12 PM
Berger, do I really need to splain why?

He should be cut now. There is no way we couldn't find a punter better then him.

HAT
12-22-2009, 08:18 PM
We won't win 5 games next year if Marshall isn't on this team.

THIS!!!!!

They won't win 5 games this year without Cutler & Shanahan!

Damn you, Gutless drunk....DAMN YOU I say!

Archer81
12-22-2009, 08:21 PM
Huh...considering this season has at least 2 guaranteed games left...why speculate until the season is over for Denver?

:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
12-22-2009, 08:27 PM
THIS!!!!!

They won't win 5 games this year without Cutler & Shanahan!

Damn you, Gutless drunk....DAMN YOU I say!

If you think we would have won 5 games this year without Marshall you are a drunk

Ambiguous
12-22-2009, 08:39 PM
Simms will be gone... Traded or cut, I don't care. If he is not gone McD is an idiot.

Hillis will probably be traded, too bad he has no value now. But I guess it's better to trade him at this point, than keep having him do nothing.

We'll probably do a lot in FA again this year on the D, but it's hard to say who will stay or go at this point.

Ambiguous
12-22-2009, 08:41 PM
We won't win 5 games next year if Marshall isn't on this team.

Whether this is true or not is debatable. But Marshall is a guy you DO NOT trade at this point. Give the man his money, he's earned it.

/Would've said the same thing about Cutler last year, wtf do I know?

DBroncos4life
12-22-2009, 09:01 PM
Whether this is true or not is debatable. But Marshall is a guy you DO NOT trade at this point. Give the man his money, he's earned it.

/Would've said the same thing about Cutler last year, wtf do I know?

Cutler was coming off one good year this is Marshall's third year in a row that he has proven to be a top 5 player at his position. There isn't a WR we could get to even come close to BM's stats in the draft or via FA period. He has been the most important player on this team this year.

Fusionfrontman
12-22-2009, 09:06 PM
We need to pay Marshall. He produces like top 3 receiver in the game so there is no reason not to pay him. Guy has kept his shiat in check this season too. Been a model citizen too since Sept.

HAT
12-22-2009, 09:26 PM
If you think we would have won 5 games this year without Marshall you are a drunk

We weren't talking about BM and how he relates to this year. I was simply calling you a f**ktard for predicting that Denver won't win 5 games next year if Marshall is gone (Yeah....12.5 months from now). You have no idea who his replacement would be. Or who Denver's QB will be.

Love Marshall....Hope they pay him.
Love Hillis....Hope he can earn some carries.
Love Orton...Hope he is here through the playoffs and beyond.

However....I love the Horsehead helmet and the Blue & Orange even more. Players come, players go. I just root for the Broncos.

DBroncos4life
12-22-2009, 10:30 PM
We weren't talking about BM and how he relates to this year. I was simply calling you a ****tard for predicting that Denver won't win 5 games next year if Marshall is gone (Yeah....12.5 months from now). You have no idea who his replacement would be. Or who Denver's QB will be.

Love Marshall....Hope they pay him.
Love Hillis....Hope he can earn some carries.
Love Orton...Hope he is here through the playoffs and beyond.

However....I love the Horsehead helmet and the Blue & Orange even more. Players come, players go. I just root for the Broncos.

LOL I can predict that we won't be able to find someone as good as him on the market. Dez Bryant couldn't step in and replace him. Maybe, Boldin would easy the loss of Marshall but that is about it. Even then Boldin isn't on Marshall's level so its a down grade at WR and down grades don't improve the team.

tsiguy96
12-22-2009, 10:36 PM
We won't win 5 games next year if Marshall isn't on this team.

oh for ****s sake, not this again. you spent ALL offseason predicting 5 wins THIS year, and we are already at 8. you are gonna start these predictions of failure already?

PRBronco
12-22-2009, 10:41 PM
LOL I can predict that we won't be able to find someone as good as him on the market. Dez Bryant couldn't step in and replace him. Maybe, Boldin would easy the loss of Marshall but that is about it. Even then Boldin isn't on Marshall's level so its a down grade at WR and down grades don't improve the team.

Curious, I consider Boldin better than Marshall, am I alone in that?

SonOfLe-loLang
12-22-2009, 11:00 PM
Curious, I consider Boldin better than Marshall, am I alone in that?

Yes, youre alone

DBroncos4life
12-22-2009, 11:50 PM
oh for ****s sake, not this again. you spent ALL offseason predicting 5 wins THIS year, and we are already at 8. you are gonna start these predictions of failure already?

I would value your imput more if you could figure out a NFL depth chart. Someone that claims Bush and McFadden are the starting RB's doesn't really make me want to continue big boy football talk.

BroncoMan4ever
12-22-2009, 11:52 PM
Cutler was coming of one good year this is Marshall's third year in a row that he has proven to be a top 5 player at his position. There isn't a WR we could get to even come close to BM's stats in the draft or via FA period. He has been the most important player on this team this year.

agree completely. although Cutler's supposed good year wasn't all that great.

with Marshall he is proven, and has shown repeatedly he has the talent to be known as not only a top 5 receiver in this league, but be the undisputed best in the league.

give the guy his money, he seems to have his **** together and is maturing, seems to have a good relationship with McDaniels, and is deserving of money.

you don't trade that kind of talent and production in hopes that you can find someone like that in the draft or FA. you go into the draft with hope you uncover a gem like that, and when you find that, you wrap him up long term.

BroncoMan4ever
12-22-2009, 11:54 PM
Curious, I consider Boldin better than Marshall, am I alone in that?

yes you are alone in that belief. Boldin is a great talent but has peaked, Marshall has yet to hit his full potential. he is a top 3 receiver right now, and has the potential to be the undisputed best in the game in the next couple years.

BroncoMan4ever
12-23-2009, 12:08 AM
Simms, i can't believe some people wanted this turd to start

Hamilton and Weigman, neither fits the blocking scheme we are using now, and with Hamilton being a UFA, he won't be re-signed, and Weigman will either be dumped or relegated to backup status simply because of cap reasons

Jordan, a decent stop gap, but this position will be looked at further in the draft or FA, age is a concern

Hillis, is not a guy McDaniels has any desire to use, and the roster space will be used on someone else.

Scheff, receiving TE is not a big part of McDaniels offense, and he will be allowed to leave.

Lloyd, was brought in solely for depth this year, has no ST ability, and will be let go for someone younger and with more upside

Holliday, he was a good pickup for a year to be a leader and help the team transition to a 3-4, and may be kept 1 more season as depth. but i expect us to continue to get younger and he will probably not be back.

Thomas, has not shown enough that he should be apart of a 3-4 defense and will peobably be traded to a 4-3 team

Lekevin has not shown enough to warrant having been traded for and will be replaced by someone younger or just better

Law, too old to continue on as just a Nickle corner and we will continue to work towards getting younger in the secondary.

Fox was borught back out of necessity due to injury and won't be back

Berger, 7 yards on a punt, he should have been fired at halftime.

Moss, good as gone, would have been gone this past offseason had his cap hit not been so huge.

DJ, i just have a feeling that he will be traded. not because of money or because he is bad, but because he is not an Inside LB, and needs to play for a 4-3 Defense as a weakside LB.

ZONA
12-23-2009, 12:56 AM
Good post.

I'm not entirely sure Hillis will be gone even though things seem to point that way. If it was so obvious, I don't think he would be here today. I think McD obviously likes Moreno and Buckhalter more but he knows Hillis gives him double value by being the 3rd RB and 2nd FB and he does have a ton of talent and is still young. He won't have high trade value so I'm not going to say it's a given that Hillis is gone.

For sure I think these dudes are history

Casey Weigmann (small, old, weak)
Ben Hamilton (small, not a great fit for this system)
Law (old, roster spot)
Berger (sucks)
Moss (he's not gone yet?)
DJ (traded, I think we are drafting or signing a FA natural instinctive ILB)
Simms (casualty of picking another QB in draft)
Schefler (not used enough, he will land with another team)

A few others I'm not sure on are Jordan (might be kept as depth if price is right), Woodyard (a nice nickel LB but price must be right), Holiday (older but still great size for 3-4 DE and gives decent depth) and finally Orton. This is going to be a tough call. I'm not sure if the new cap stuff plays a roll or not but I think the Broncos will want to keep him but not give him anything close to a big dollar long term contract. I know he is not that old but my guess is they would love for Tom Branstater to learn for another year and replace him sooner then later. If the market won't give Orton a big deal, the Broncos could probably land him for a shorter contract. I'm not sure Orton will have too many possibilities out there. He would be going to his 3rd team and probably the most that would be guaranteed to him is a chance to compete for the starting position, like we did. Teams don't pay huge contracts to QB's who are brought in to compete for the job. I think Orton would rather take a shorter contract with us at a higher pay and have a chance to prove he can get that big paycheck in a few years.

tsiguy96
12-23-2009, 01:18 AM
I would value your imput more if you could figure out a NFL depth chart. Someone that claims Bush and McFadden are the starting RB's doesn't really make me want to continue big boy football talk.

those "backup" RBs gashed our D for more than any team has in awhile. id take bush over any RB on our roster including moreno or hillis. mcfadden was a first round pick for a reason as well, though hes been oft injured. but, you know best dont you?

gtown
12-23-2009, 07:58 AM
Definitely Gone:
Simms (why is he still here?)
Weigmann
Hamilton
Jordan
Moss (we finally end this charade)
Law
Hillis (McD is too tired of having to answer questions about him to keep him)
Polumbus (has not shown me anything)
Thomas (square peg round hole)
Fox
Lloyd

Maybe Gone:
Sheff (I think McD keeps him)
DJ (needs to finally go play Will for a 4-3 team)
Woodyard (depending on who we draft he may not have the size to compete)
Champ (expensive and slower, depends on if we draft Joe Haden)

oubronco
12-23-2009, 08:09 AM
THIS!!!!!

They won't win 5 games this year without Cutler & Shanahan!

Damn you, Gutless drunk....DAMN YOU I say!

you know he does have a point take Marshall out of the picture and who has stepped up and made plays this season to win games

~Crash~
12-23-2009, 08:16 AM
We won't win 5 games next year if Marshall isn't on this team.

I thought that was kind of what this coach was working on ..lol

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-23-2009, 08:17 AM
He should be cut now. There is no way we couldn't find a punter better then him.

As soon as you guys start understanding football, be sure to let us know.

Berger had a bad punt on Sunday. There's no doubt about it. But his net average is BETTER than Kern's was, and he had some boomers on Sunday as well.

yes, by all means, cut a guy who performs poorly 1 out of 5 times he goes out there.

Jesus, some people are just flaming piles of retard.

elsid13
12-23-2009, 08:21 AM
As soon as you guys start understanding football, be sure to let us know.

Berger had a bad punt on Sunday. There's no doubt about it. But his net average is BETTER than Kern's was, and he had some boomers on Sunday as well.

yes, by all means, cut a guy who performs poorly 1 out of 5 times he goes out there.

Jesus, some people are just flaming piles of retard.

He's a punter, guy like him get replaced all the time for screwing up 1 out of 5 times, particularly on critical drives.

missingnumber7
12-23-2009, 08:21 AM
Why would McDaniels cut Brandon Stokley??? He is one of the Patriot cast offs?

Moss: Like I need to explain this Shannahan BUST
Hillis: Square peg, round hole
Jordan: age, useless
Hamilton: Old and too small for the new system we are trying to install
Simms : If I have to tell you, you are too stupid to understand
Scheffler: Does not fit into the plans
Wiegmann: OLD and gets beaten like a drum
Berger: Old, has to be better out there
Ty Law: Dirt is younger than he is. Will only get older and slower

A couple others I would like to be gone, but will not.

Stokely never played for the pats...Gaffney did...But I think your list is pretty close.

I think Scheff stays unless they can get a bunch for him in a sign and trade type deal. I think the same works for Moss as well.

I'm not exactly sure about the Wiegmann move. I know he's old and gets schooled, but a quality C stays around for a long time.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-23-2009, 08:24 AM
He's a punter, guy like him get replaced all the time for screwing up 1 out of 5 times, particularly on critical drives.

Fair enough, but claiming that all our woes are because of a punter, a punter who has improved our punting game since coming in, is stupid.

elsid13
12-23-2009, 08:33 AM
Fair enough, but claiming that all our woes are because of a punter, a punter who has improved our punting game since coming in, is stupid.

Let be honest, it been a wash. For not out kicking the coverage it been a positive thing, but there have been far to many poor punts (with out pressure) that it is understandable why folks are asking if there anyone out there.

WolfpackGuy
12-23-2009, 09:24 AM
Simms is gone from the league.

Still find it hard to believe the Broncos signed him for $3mill/year.

I think Woodyard could hang around in a special teams role.

go_broncos
12-23-2009, 09:27 AM
Simms, Hillis and Berger will be gone

Paladin
12-23-2009, 09:45 AM
I don't think anyone here has a clue about the offseason to come. I don't think it is all McD, either. The assistant coaches and Nolan have pretty good sway about the players, and now that they have one year behind them in this system, I suspect there will be some re-evaluations on a number of players and their roles. It is predictable that most of the "predictions" and "speculations" have followed the biases (some clearly uwarranted) of the posters. The comments would be laughable for most if they weren't so pathetic.

I would rather that the coaches surprise us with their moves. Most of the "predictions" herre are not surprising.....

TonyR
12-23-2009, 09:50 AM
Out of curiousity, what potentially available FA QB's would people advocate bringing in to either replace, or have compete with, Orton? Here's the list:

Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins (28)
Chad Pennington, Miami Dolphins (34)
Tarvaris Jackson, Minnesota Vikings (27)
Kellen Clemens, New York Jets (27)
Charlie Batch, Pittsburgh Steelers (35)
Kyle Boller, St. Louis Rams (29)
David Carr, New York Giants (31)
Brodie Croyle, Kansas City Chiefs (27)
Daunte Culpepper, Detroit Lions (33)
Rex Grossman, Houston Texans (30)
Joey Harrington, New Orleans Saints (31)
Jon Kitna, Dallas Cowboys (37)
Matt Moore, Carolina Panthers (26) Restricted FA
Chris Redman, Atlanta Falcons (33)
Brett Ratliff, Cleveland Browns (25) Exclusive Rights FA
Troy Smith, Baltimore Ravens (26) Restricted FA

TailgateNut
12-23-2009, 10:08 AM
BF7 and jhns (please)

Rabb
12-23-2009, 10:10 AM
those "backup" RBs gashed our D for more than any team has in awhile. id take bush over any RB on our roster including moreno or hillis. mcfadden was a first round pick for a reason as well, though hes been oft injured. but, you know best dont you?

just stop, seriously

you can't defend McFadden with the 1st round pick bull**** and slam our first round pick in the same post

DBroncos4life
12-23-2009, 10:11 AM
those "backup" RBs gashed our D for more than any team has in awhile. id take bush over any RB on our roster including moreno or hillis. mcfadden was a first round pick for a reason as well, though hes been oft injured. but, you know best dont you?

I had NOTHING to do with what backs are on our roster McD did. You would take Bush over our 12 pick in last years draft then maybe you don't agree with everything McD is doing after all.

As soon as you guys start understanding football, be sure to let us know.

Berger had a bad punt on Sunday. There's no doubt about it. But his net average is BETTER than Kern's was, and he had some boomers on Sunday as well.

yes, by all means, cut a guy who performs poorly 1 out of 5 times he goes out there.

Jesus, some people are just flaming piles of retard.

You think Berger has only had one bad punt since joining the Broncos? Let us know when you watch a Broncos game mmmkay. Kickers and punters get cut its the nature of football.

Pick Six
12-23-2009, 10:16 AM
Out of curiousity, what potentially available FA QB's would people advocate bringing in to either replace, or have compete with, Orton? Here's the list:

Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins (28)
Chad Pennington, Miami Dolphins (34)
Tarvaris Jackson, Minnesota Vikings (27)
Kellen Clemens, New York Jets (27)
Charlie Batch, Pittsburgh Steelers (35)
Kyle Boller, St. Louis Rams (29)
David Carr, New York Giants (31)
Brodie Croyle, Kansas City Chiefs (27)
Daunte Culpepper, Detroit Lions (33)
Rex Grossman, Houston Texans (30)
Joey Harrington, New Orleans Saints (31)
Jon Kitna, Dallas Cowboys (37)
Matt Moore, Carolina Panthers (26) Restricted FA
Chris Redman, Atlanta Falcons (33)
Brett Ratliff, Cleveland Browns (25) Exclusive Rights FA
Troy Smith, Baltimore Ravens (26) Restricted FA

Time is ticking away for Charlie Batch and Jon Kitna, but every other quarterback on that list would be a better #3 quarterback than Simms. I know that's not the question, but that's the only hole at quarterback I see.

barryr
12-23-2009, 10:17 AM
Guys I think that will gone:

Jordan - 3rd ream RB's are a dime a dozen, someone who can catch out of the backfield to replace him would be nice

Hamilton - played horribly and I don't think played that great last year either, may not have fully recovered from that season he missed

Wiegmann - might stay if can't find another vet center, but I do think they want to get bigger

Scheffler - doesn't make enough plays and drops too many balls, plus still not much of a blocker

Stockley - since doesn't play special teams and has been absent most games, wouldn't be surprised to see him go

Polumbus - unless he really picks up his game, he won't be back, looked horrid against the Raiders last week

Berger - will look for a punter to at least challenge him

Law - was just a stop gap

Any of the DL could be gone, an upgrade is really needed and seeing how the Pats have drafted quite a few DL in the 1st round

Woodyard - just not playing well lately

Champ - I think he might be asked to take a paycut or he could be the big name guy leaving

They need to add more DL that can beat single blocking more often, play Ayers and Dumervil together more often, and improved play by the OL.

missingnumber7
12-23-2009, 10:38 AM
BF7 and jhns (please)

Can I add Lex to this list?

missingnumber7
12-23-2009, 10:40 AM
Stockley - since doesn't play special teams and has been absent most games, wouldn't be surprised to see him go


This was the same thing said when final cuts were being made. He fits the team and the scheme. Hard to see him go, especially when the recieving corp would be set and with Mckinley(sp) coming along as a return with Royal.

jhns
12-23-2009, 10:41 AM
Can I add Lex to this list?

No.

mr007
12-23-2009, 10:48 AM
Curious, I consider Boldin better than Marshall, am I alone in that?

Boldin is about as fast as Marshall and he's smaller, less blocking ability, and not as agile. So yeah, you're alone, even though I still think Boldin is a beast.

Traveler
12-23-2009, 10:58 AM
My turn with only big name players I'm "guessing" have negatives in one way or another:


Brandon Stokley- Said this past offseason that retirement was a possibility.

LaMont Jordan- Hasn't been healthy all year and is on the downside of his career. Brings little to the team that Hillis can't provide.

Jarvis Moss- The major monetary portion of his contract has been fulfilled. Team won't take a huge cap hit by cutting him now. Has no fit in this defensive scheme.

Chris Simms- No explanation required.

Ben Hamilton- Doesn't fit the new system.

Marcus Thomas- stays only if they don't bring in another DT.

Champ Bailey- Possible cap casualty and isn't the differnce maker he once was. Teams go at him with more regularity and are successful more often than not this season.

Vonnie Holliday- The Ayers experiment at OLB/DE get trashed and he becomes a full time DE.

Tony Sheffler- Too much cap space invested at this position coupled with his disatisfaction with his use in this offense.

jebures
12-23-2009, 11:00 AM
Out of curiousity, what potentially available FA QB's would people advocate bringing in to either replace, or have compete with, Orton? Here's the list:

Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins (28)
Chad Pennington, Miami Dolphins (34)
Tarvaris Jackson, Minnesota Vikings (27)
Kellen Clemens, New York Jets (27)
Charlie Batch, Pittsburgh Steelers (35)
Kyle Boller, St. Louis Rams (29)
David Carr, New York Giants (31)
Brodie Croyle, Kansas City Chiefs (27)
Daunte Culpepper, Detroit Lions (33)
Rex Grossman, Houston Texans (30)
Joey Harrington, New Orleans Saints (31)
Jon Kitna, Dallas Cowboys (37)
Matt Moore, Carolina Panthers (26) Restricted FA
Chris Redman, Atlanta Falcons (33)
Brett Ratliff, Cleveland Browns (25) Exclusive Rights FA
Troy Smith, Baltimore Ravens (26) Restricted FA

Just say no...grosssss

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-23-2009, 11:22 AM
You think Berger has only had one bad punt since joining the Broncos? Let us know when you watch a Broncos game mmmkay. Kickers and punters get cut its the nature of football.

Show me where I said he had one bad punt in the entire time he has been with the Broncos, and I'll eat my hat. Go ahead. Find where I said "he's only had one bad punt in his time with the Broncos!"

Fact is, the net average is UP since he replaced Kern. That means it's an IMPROVEMENT.

As soon as you understand football -- no, simply 'watching' the games is not enough, not for someone as stupid as you -- please let us know.

tsiguy96
12-23-2009, 11:26 AM
I had NOTHING to do with what backs are on our roster McD did. You would take Bush over our 12 pick in last years draft then maybe you don't agree with everything McD is doing after all.


i dont agree with EVERYTHING hes done, but im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until you know whether it works or not. i never really liked the smith trade, and knowshon looks ridiculous there running into a linemans back on every single run. but the difference is i dont come here whining and crying about how bad mcd is and why he sucks because one of his picks isnt working out. shanahan lovers should be used to that by now, yet when the new coach who you still dont like has picks that arent making rookie impacts you cry yourselves to sleep cursing his name.

DBroncos4life
12-23-2009, 01:40 PM
Show me where I said he had one bad punt in the entire time he has been with the Broncos, and I'll eat my hat. Go ahead. Find where I said "he's only had one bad punt in his time with the Broncos!"

Fact is, the net average is UP since he replaced Kern. That means it's an IMPROVEMENT.

As soon as you understand football -- no, simply 'watching' the games is not enough, not for someone as stupid as you -- please let us know.

You're right bud I'm sure I'm the only person that thinks Berger sucks and we could do better. Sure he is a step up from Kern but, truth be told they both blow ass. You can keep claiming he is better then Kern, which I DON'T disagree with. I just understand that we replaced one bad punter with one that is just a tad better. Good luck getting more then a handful of people to think that Berger is the best we can do. :thumbsup:

i dont agree with EVERYTHING hes done, but im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until you know whether it works or not. i never really liked the smith trade, and knowshon looks ridiculous there running into a linemans back on every single run. but the difference is i dont come here whining and crying about how bad mcd is and why he sucks because one of his picks isnt working out. shanahan lovers should be used to that by now, yet when the new coach who you still dont like has picks that arent making rookie impacts you cry yourselves to sleep cursing his name.

Are you going to admit that everything is down from last year on O then? McD's system has taken production down in every phase of our O from, red zone scoring, yards, points, 3rd down %. We are on pace to have more rushing yards then we did last year but TDs are down from 15 to 7. Yes INT's are down but that and Marshall are the only bright spot I have seen on the O this year.

WolfpackGuy
12-23-2009, 01:43 PM
All I know is that Berger is 2-6 while Kern is 7-1.

That Kern was a winnah I tell ya.

mr007
12-23-2009, 01:48 PM
All I know is that Berger is 2-6 while Kern is 7-1.

That Kern was a winnah I tell ya.

Say what you wanna say about the people around him, but I'm telling you, all the guy does is win games. The record speaks for itself.

BroncoMan4ever
12-23-2009, 02:05 PM
Out of curiousity, what potentially available FA QB's would people advocate bringing in to either replace, or have compete with, Orton? Here's the list:

Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins (28)
Chad Pennington, Miami Dolphins (34)
Tarvaris Jackson, Minnesota Vikings (27)
Kellen Clemens, New York Jets (27)
Charlie Batch, Pittsburgh Steelers (35)
Kyle Boller, St. Louis Rams (29)
David Carr, New York Giants (31)
Brodie Croyle, Kansas City Chiefs (27)
Daunte Culpepper, Detroit Lions (33)
Rex Grossman, Houston Texans (30)
Joey Harrington, New Orleans Saints (31)
Jon Kitna, Dallas Cowboys (37)
Matt Moore, Carolina Panthers (26) Restricted FA
Chris Redman, Atlanta Falcons (33)
Brett Ratliff, Cleveland Browns (25) Exclusive Rights FA
Troy Smith, Baltimore Ravens (26) Restricted FA

Clemens and Boller, are the only 2 that i think realistically could compete for a starting role.

the one that intrigues me is Carr. the guy had so much talent coming into the league, and just got destroyed playing in Houston. had he had better protection and not been thrown to the wolves almost immediately, i believe the guy would have had a really good career.

tsiguy96
12-23-2009, 02:24 PM
Are you going to admit that everything is down from last year on O then? McD's system has taken production down in every phase of our O from, red zone scoring, yards, points, 3rd down %. We are on pace to have more rushing yards then we did last year but TDs are down from 15 to 7. Yes INT's are down but that and Marshall are the only bright spot I have seen on the O this year.

i never said it wasnt? im pretty realistic about the state of the team believe it or not. they cant convert on 3rd and short and moreno needs to get half as many carries as he is, i dont know he can handle this load in his first year and hes not an elite back. but its not near as bad as some people want to think, its mostly little errors that stop this team from being great, stuff that can be fixed in one offseason especially if they fix C/LG.

the passing game is actually decent it just needs some help from the running game in dire situations and its not getting it.

2KBack
12-23-2009, 02:26 PM
Are you going to admit that everything is down from last year on O then? McD's system has taken production down in every phase of our O from, red zone scoring, yards, points, 3rd down %. We are on pace to have more rushing yards then we did last year but TDs are down from 15 to 7. Yes INT's are down but that and Marshall are the only bright spot I have seen on the O this year.

Now will you admit, that there are more to the statistics than you have obviously observed? For example, The average Defense that Denver faced ranked 16th (points), this season they average 14th. Could account for 3 points per game easy.

A really interesting stat though is how often does Denver's offense actually match or surpass the average points given up by the opposition. Last year Denver matched or exceeded the average points allowed by the opposing team 7 total times. So far this season, against better defenses, Denver has matched or surpassed those averages 5 times. Seems to me the offense last year got pretty fat on a couple really bad defenses, and then underperformed in 9 other games. This season Denver may match that, showing that there wasn't any real regression in the onfield production when considering all the variables.

NFLBRONCO
12-23-2009, 03:06 PM
Here's mine

1. Simms trade (Figured everyone needs a laugh)(Tmobile is hiring)
2. Hillis trade
3. Hamilton Cut
4. Weigman Cut
5. Scheffler trade
6. Champ trade (Denver should send him to winner too much coin)
7. Stokley Unsure
8. Law trade to (windcrest retirement home)
9. Doom Unsure Pat's wallet might cause a trade
10. BM Unsure Pat's wallet might cause a trade
11. Jordan Cut

DBroncos4life
12-23-2009, 03:54 PM
i never said it wasnt? im pretty realistic about the state of the team believe it or not. they cant convert on 3rd and short and moreno needs to get half as many carries as he is, i dont know he can handle this load in his first year and hes not an elite back. but its not near as bad as some people want to think, its mostly little errors that stop this team from being great, stuff that can be fixed in one offseason especially if they fix C/LG.

the passing game is actually decent it just needs some help from the running game in dire situations and its not getting it.

I think it's safe to say that more then a few things that the "doom and gloom" posters as you like to call us are happening. I was very much against getting rid of Marshall, more so then Cutler. I have been over this with you I have a HUGE amount of respect for Orton. I think he is limited though and we can do better. After I calmed down I predicted 8 wins if we kept Marshall. He was the player I knew that Orton could rely on because I saw what he was on the field, a legit WR threat. I got a kick out of the posters that claimed we didn't need Marshall and that he wasn't the true number one WR on the team Royal was. Royal is struggling and it sucks, because we had high hopes that he would be our Welker. Still it's the D that caught everyone off guard. No one could have seen the turn around that we have this year coming. It's even more impressive giving the fact that we have 1 legit star on the front seven and two pretty good players with Davis and DJ. If the D didn't improve the way it did from a statistical point of view I don't see how we would have a chance at a better then .500 record.

DBroncos4life
12-23-2009, 04:28 PM
Now will you admit, that there are more to the statistics than you have obviously observed? For example, The average Defense that Denver faced ranked 16th (points), this season they average 14th. Could account for 3 points per game easy.

A really interesting stat though is how often does Denver's offense actually match or surpass the average points given up by the opposition. Last year Denver matched or exceeded the average points allowed by the opposing team 7 total times. So far this season, against better defenses, Denver has matched or surpassed those averages 5 times. Seems to me the offense last year got pretty fat on a couple really bad defenses, and then underperformed in 9 other games. This season Denver may match that, showing that there wasn't any real regression in the onfield production when considering all the variables.
We are averaging 60 less yards per game this year as well which makes up for the 3 points if the drive starts at the 20. We are worse in the red zone this year as well. There is room for improvement. Is it the end of the world, nope but I do believe we will see changes yet again to the coaching staff in the off-season which could be OK. I didn't think McCoy was that great of a QB coach/OC. Wies would be an improvement. I am worried about Turner and Dennison. I think both would be gone even if Shanahan wasn't going to take them from us. I don't agree with the line scheme change one bit.

rastaman
12-23-2009, 05:20 PM
We need to pay Marshall. He produces like top 3 receiver in the game so there is no reason not to pay him. Guy has kept his shiat in check this season too. Been a model citizen too since Sept.

The question no one is asking is if Marshall wants to continue having an inaccurate passer and limited ability of a QB like Orton throwing him passes; and does Marshall still want to resign with a team that is REBUILDING!

Marshall needs to consider that and also except whether Bowlen and McD try and offer him a top 10 WR contract extention vs the top 5 paid contract.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-23-2009, 05:29 PM
The question no one is asking is if Marshall wants to continue having an inaccurate passer and limited ability of a QB like Orton throwing him passes; and does Marshall still want to resign with a team that is REBUILDING!

Marshall needs to consider that and also except whether Bowlen and McD try and offer him a top 10 WR contract extention vs the top 5 paid contract.

Do you watch Broncos games? Why would Marshall be concerned with Orton's viability when Orton just helped put him in the record books. He's going to have his 3rd consecutive 100 catch season.

I'm not saying Orton is the answer, but this post is plain stupid.

Not to mention, the Broncos control his rights. Hes not going anywhere

DBroncos4life
12-23-2009, 05:34 PM
Do you watch Broncos games? Why would Marshall be concerned with Orton's viability when Orton just helped put him in the record books. He's going to have his 3rd consecutive 100 catch season.

I'm not saying Orton is the answer, but this post is plain stupid.

Not to mention, the Broncos control his rights. Hes not going anywhere

No ****, he is already at career highs in TD's too. Orton has done nothing to hurt Marshall's contract goals, in fact he has helped them by getting Marshall to double digit TD's for the first time in his career. He is working better in the red zone than he ever did with Cutler. That right there took him into top 5 at his position. His red zone production was the last part of his on field issue he needed to work on.

oubronco
12-23-2009, 05:43 PM
Orton's numbers so far vs Rivers not alot of difference other than td's

Orton's 277 - 444 3182 17 td's 8 int's

River's 287 - 444 3891 25 td's 9 int's
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DBroncos4life
12-23-2009, 05:57 PM
I don't think tagging Marshall and placing the max amount of picks on him is going to stop teams from taking him from us. We have to resign him fast. Personally I think Shanahan ends up in Dallas. He gets his 3-4 D already in place and he gets his QB that he wanted before Cutler in Romo. I think he will make the biggest push for Marshall in the off-season. For those people that don't think Jones and Shanahan will mix well I think he last longer then the Tuna who is very anal about people trying to medal in his teams as well. I can see Shanahan lasting longer then Bill Parcells but shorter then Jimmy Johnson.

azbroncfan
12-23-2009, 06:20 PM
Moss because he sucks.
Hamilton
Bailey unless he restructures.
Wiegman youth movement
Simms
Jordan
Hillis

There is a few off the top of my head.

2KBack
12-23-2009, 06:26 PM
I don't think tagging Marshall and placing the max amount of picks on him is going to stop teams from taking him from us. We have to resign him fast. Personally I think Shanahan ends up in Dallas. He gets his 3-4 D already in place and he gets his QB that he wanted before Cutler in Romo. I think he will make the biggest push for Marshall in the off-season. For those people that don't think Jones and Shanahan will mix well I think he last longer then the Tuna who is very anal about people trying to medal in his teams as well. I can see Shanahan lasting longer then Bill Parcells but shorter then Jimmy Johnson.

so...4 and a half seasons?

orinjkrush
12-28-2009, 08:45 PM
bailey has to restructure.
scheff...sorry goodbye
stokely....WTF???
moss...we hardly knew ye

brandon.........brandon who?

rastaman
12-28-2009, 09:00 PM
I think C-Buck needs to go also b/c he can't stay healthy. C-Buck is the 2009 version of the 2008 Ryan Torrain.

~Crash~
12-28-2009, 09:01 PM
I know, I know this year's not over...

but people have been talking draft and implosion and stuff, so thinking about how this year's roster has changed...


I speculate that (but am not proponent for!):

Brandon.....traded....(why?).....payback
Hillis..........traded......he's already been traded in substance
Scheffler...............he wants to play on Sunday
Hamilton..................done
Doomerville...............trade value....arrrrrrghhh
Moss.........traded or dumped....where the heck is Bates now anyhow?
Simms.......dumped....rather eat that cap hit
Le Kevin Smith.........didn't show enough
Woodyard.....dumped for the roster spot

others?

next year could be as tumultuous as, or weirder than, this year.....

It is over after this week