PDA

View Full Version : The downward spiral of quarterback Jay Cutler


BMarsh615
12-22-2009, 07:15 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/1951843,CST-SPT-morrissey22.article

Cutler a 'franchise' QB? All who said so might be totally wrong


If it turns out to be a figment of an exuberant imagination, I'll apologize later.

But now? Leave me to my giddiness.
On Sunday, Bears general manager Jerry Angelo left open the possibility that Lovie Smith would not be back next year as head coach. The only sweeter utterance would have been the suggestion that the tag team of Smith and Angelo isn't long for Halas Hall.

But these are the Bears, and dark thoughts tend to follow like overcaffeinated gnats. Would you like me to bring you down from your buzz?

What if Smith and Angelo aren't the worst of the Bears' problems? What if the decision to trade for and pay Jay Cutler turns out to be?
This is not a discussion of whether the Bears were right to deal for Cutler in the offseason. Of course they were. They haven't had a quarterback since what would be defined as ''never.''

But what if all those people who insisted the Bears now had a ''franchise'' quarterback were wrong? What if, unbeknownst to them, the franchise Cutler was meant to be quarterbacking is a Long John Silver's in New Jersey?

All year, Cutler's defenders have been saying he is surrounded by substandard wide receivers. Well, guess what? The quarterback is playing worse than Johnny Knox, Earl Bennett, Devin Hester (when he's healthy) and Devin Aromashodu.
Even Flacco clearly better
Yes, the Bears are without a bona fide No. 1 receiver. But maybe, just maybe, the people around Cutler are playing down to his level. Did you ever think we'd get to this point in the discussion?

To repeat: Cutler is a bigger problem right now than anybody who catches his passes. It's just another reason why Smith and his staff need to be sent away immediately after the season.

If the organization doesn't find someone who can right Cutler, it will have been on the losing end of one of the worst trades in NFL history.
Remember the notion that Cutler was going to make everyone around him better? Um, er, ah -- no. Not even close. In fact, if the Bears and the Ravens had traded quarterbacks before Sunday's game, Baltimore's Joe Flacco would have done more with the Bears' receivers than Cutler was able to do.

I know: That's not saying much, considering Cutler's passer rating was 7.9.
Flacco is in his second year in the league, yet looks leaps and bounds ahead of Cutler in terms of maturity and development. The Bears' quarterback is nearing the end of his fourth year, and he's regressing at Mach speed.

It turns out that a howitzer of an arm does not automatically translate into success on the football field. We were all transfixed by that arm in training camp. We saw what we had never seen in Chicago: a quarterback who could make any pass on the field.

Unfortunately, too many of those passes land in the hands of the opposition. Cutler leads the NFL with 25 interceptions.
To hang this whole thing on him is obviously unfair, but so is hanging it on the receivers. And although the offensive line has been awful this season, it didn't play poorly Sunday. Cutler had plenty of time to throw, which means he had plenty of time to be bad.

And by the way, if tight end Greg Olsen could pick up the nearest white courtesy phone, that would be swell.
The problem is not simply offensive coordinator Ron Turner's system, either. If you've seen some of Cutler's errant passes this season, then you know it's not the offensive structure. Cutler is the repeat offender here.

Going into the season, the bigger concern was his emotional makeup. How would the ornery one handle hard times? With resolve?
Or by falling apart?
Maybe Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal made Cutler the quarterback he was in Denver.

A search for substance
Surprised by how much Cutler has struggled this season, Lovie?
''We're surprised that we're 5-9 right now, but that's kind of how it is,'' Smith said Monday. ''Eventually all those things that we thought would happen I feel like will happen. They just haven't so far.''
Any good things that could happen to Cutler ahead would be greatly aided by Smith's ouster. Now, if only we knew who makes the final decisions at Halas Hall.

It's not very becoming to show glee over the possibility of a person or persons being unemployed. I know this. It's not something that makes me particularly proud.
But there's a tremendous lack of substance to the head coach and the GM. Let's hope Cutler hasn't been infected with it.

400HZ
12-22-2009, 07:32 AM
At least you guys didn't spend the draft picks on anybody good.

go_broncos
12-22-2009, 07:41 AM
Cutler Sucks.
That's the only good thing Mcd has done.

Imagine Mcd telling Cutler not to throw in tight spots.We would have won at most 2 or 3 games this season with Cutler.

bpc
12-22-2009, 07:46 AM
Hey, Cutler has been a disaster this year, just like the rest of his teammates. People need not look farther than Matt Forte's stats this year vs. last year to see how far it's disintegrated.

Lovie Smith is a good defensive coordinator and that's about it. Time for the Bears to move on and put some pieces in place to buffer their investments. Sooner the better. I'm surprised that Angelo hasn't tried to jump in on the Shanahan bandwagon yet. He would be a great fit there.

Mr.Meanie
12-22-2009, 07:47 AM
At least you guys didn't spend the draft picks on anybody good.

Don't we still have a top 10 pick to use it on?

TailgateNut
12-22-2009, 07:47 AM
What if, unbeknownst to them, the franchise Cutler was meant to be quarterbacking is a Long John Silver's in New Jersey?


Bawahahahaahahaha!

Peoples Champ
12-22-2009, 07:59 AM
Don't we still have a top 10 pick to use it on?


ya we do, the charger fan is wrong again

chex
12-22-2009, 08:05 AM
The 'franchise QB', who has more interceptions in 14 games this year than he has wins for his career. The 'franchise QB' who has the same passer rating as Matt Cassel.

Is anyone going to tell me that franchise QB's like Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, etc. would be doing just as poorly on this team? Leading the league with 25 interceptions?

Broncoman13
12-22-2009, 08:06 AM
Hey, Cutler has been a disaster this year, just like the rest of his teammates. People need not look farther than Matt Forte's stats this year vs. last year to see how far it's disintegrated.

Lovie Smith is a good defensive coordinator and that's about it. Time for the Bears to move on and put some pieces in place to buffer their investments. Sooner the better. I'm surprised that Angelo hasn't tried to jump in on the Shanahan bandwagon yet. He would be a great fit there.

I'm surprised that Cutler played this poorly, as surprised as anyone Chris. But perhaps it's time to start believing in the Jeff George comparisons. Cutler may never be great b/c he doesn't have the head for the game. I think there are only a few coaches in this league that can get the most out of his ability. Turner and Smith are not them, that's for sure.

The Bears should think long and hard about John Gruden. Problem is, Gruden wouldn't put up with Cutler's crap and wouldn't back down when he went to pout'n. The Bears look to be royally screwed in this trade... and sadly we look to be wasting the picks ourselves.

Florida_Bronco
12-22-2009, 08:07 AM
What if, unbeknownst to them, the franchise Cutler was meant to be quarterbacking is a Long John Silver's in New Jersey?


Bawahahahaahahaha!

Give the guy some credit. He'd at least be able to handle a Red Lobster. Ha!

Broncoman13
12-22-2009, 08:08 AM
ya we do, the charger fan is wrong again

He is half right b/c thus far we haven't spent the picks on anybody good.

Ayers would be pretty good in a game of two-hand touch football though. Gotta give him that. He might be okay at dodge ball too. He has shown the ability to dodge blocks with lightning like quickness... usually takes himself out of the play completely, but dammit he is unblockable.

Broncoman13
12-22-2009, 08:10 AM
The 'franchise QB', who has more interceptions in 14 games this year than he has wins for his career. The 'franchise QB' who has the same passer rating as Matt Cassel.

Is anyone going to tell me that franchise QB's like Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, etc. would be doing just as poorly on this team? Leading the league with 25 interceptions?

Fumblesburger yes, Manning No, Brady wouldn't be anything more than a .500 QB in Chicago. All would have less Ints though... maybe not bigben, he's kind of a knucklehead too.

ScottXray
12-22-2009, 08:31 AM
Hey, Cutler has been a disaster this year, just like the rest of his teammates. People need not look farther than Matt Forte's stats this year vs. last year to see how far it's disintegrated.

Lovie Smith is a good defensive coordinator and that's about it. Time for the Bears to move on and put some pieces in place to buffer their investments. Sooner the better. I'm surprised that Angelo hasn't tried to jump in on the Shanahan bandwagon yet. He would be a great fit there.

Bwahahaha! Bring in Shanny and the first thing he'd do is trade for a good reliable veteran QB, to " back Up" Cutler....Then he'd bench Cutler in the 9th or 10th game next year. He'd also invest in QB coach to see if the fundamentals CAN be corrected.

But I doubt Shanahan would consider taking the Chicago job....He won't have any decent draft picks for at least one and maybe two years, and he has a head case QB, with a monster contract, that he can't dump. No O-line to speak of and few recievers, and an aging defense. MAJOR rebuild needed. No quick fixes there, and no easy path back to the playoffs, in what is getting to be a tough to win division. Plus a short memory fan base that is not going to give more than 3-4 years to get it done.

gtown
12-22-2009, 08:42 AM
What if, unbeknownst to them, the franchise Cutler was meant to be quarterbacking is a Long John Silver's in New Jersey?


Bawahahahaahahaha!

I don't think seafood is Jay's calling. The fish are way too slippery to throw into double coverage off his back foot.

bpc
12-22-2009, 08:48 AM
Bwahahaha! Bring in Shanny and the first thing he'd do is trade for a good reliable veteran QB, to " back Up" Cutler....Then he'd bench Cutler in the 9th or 10th game next year. He'd also invest in QB coach to see if the fundamentals CAN be corrected.

But I doubt Shanahan would consider taking the Chicago job....He won't have any decent draft picks for at least one and maybe two years, and he has a head case QB, with a monster contract, that he can't dump. No O-line to speak of and few recievers, and an aging defense. MAJOR rebuild needed. No quick fixes there, and no easy path back to the playoffs, in what is getting to be a tough to win division. Plus a short memory fan base that is not going to give more than 3-4 years to get it done.

We'll go over this again. Shanahan was building a Denver offense which could have quickly rivaled New Orleans as one of the top passing offenses in the league. Why wouldn't he want to jump start that again? I'm sure he would be the first one to say that finding a difference maker at QB is one of the hardest tasks in the NFL, hence why Chicago paid 2 first round picks for Jay, as a bunch of NFL teams had discussed doing... Chicago, Washington, TB, NYJ...

I think Mike would jump at the chance if it was the right situation. It might not be though because of Angelos.

As for the draft pick situation, he took over a Denver team which had one of the worst defenses in the league in 94' and didn't have any draft picks until the 4th round. He'd be fine. Just like he was fine here.

Shanahan is going to thrive in his next season. They'll be instantly competitive.

barryr
12-22-2009, 08:50 AM
Cutler is a joke and so are his fans. Franchise QB? All because he can throw the ball hard. Wow, sign you guys up to be scouts.

beanerbronco
12-22-2009, 08:54 AM
The Long John Silver comment is histerical lol. I live in Jersey and in my 10 years here, I think I've seen maybe two LJS lol. Very odd haha.
You almost wanna feel bad for Cutler, but not really

TonyR
12-22-2009, 08:56 AM
Shanahan was building a Denver offense which could have quickly rivaled New Orleans as one of the top passing offenses in the league.

Yep because Jay Cutler is clearly almost as good as Drew Brees...

chex
12-22-2009, 08:57 AM
Shanahan is going to thrive in his next season. They'll be instantly competitive.

Big deal. Shanahan was "competitive" the last 10 years here too, and has the one playoff win with Jake Plummer to prove it.

bpc
12-22-2009, 09:02 AM
Big deal. Shanahan was "competitive" the last 10 years here too, and has the one playoff win with Jake Plummer to prove it.

Which will go down as the decade of Manning and Brady dominating the AFC.

It also points to not bringing a knife to a gunfight, which we're currently trying to do again with Orton the handicap leading our offense.

400HZ
12-22-2009, 09:03 AM
Don't we still have a top 10 pick to use it on?

That's not what I said, but since you mention it:

Moreno
Ayers
Smith
?????

I'm hopeful that the trend continues. There may be some flaws in McDaniels revolutionary 60 man draft board. :giggle:

Actually the entire 2009 draft class has been pretty lackluster so far apart from a couple decent defensive players like Laurenitis and Orakpo. I would much rather have a second pick this next draft.

chex
12-22-2009, 09:07 AM
Which will go down as the decade of Manning and Brady dominating the AFC.

It also points to not bringing a knife to a gunfight, which we're currently trying to do again with Orton the handicap leading our offense.

So then how does this help your assumption that Shanahan will turn the Redskins around overnight? Who's the QB in D.C.? Is it a knife as well?

TailgateNut
12-22-2009, 09:09 AM
Which will go down as the decade of Manning and Brady dominating the AFC.

It also points to not bringing a knife to a gunfight, which we're currently trying to do again with Orton the handicap leading our offense.

Yep, in the minds of those who don't actually pay attention, Orton is the issue with our offense and defense. He should take one step back, fire the ball downfield at covered recievers before getting pummeled by the opponents.

The O-line was ****ing attrocious, but don't allow facts to cloud your mind any more than it already is.

bpc
12-22-2009, 09:16 AM
Yep, in the minds of those who don't actually pay attention, Orton is the issue with our offense and defense. He should take one step back, fire the ball downfield at covered recievers before getting pummeled by the opponents.

The O-line was ****ing attrocious, but don't allow facts to cloud your mind any more than it already is.

So your excuse for Eddie Royal disappearing this is he can't break coverages or that the offensive line has never given Orton enough time to find him open? It's not from the fact that Orton isn't great at reading defenses or slowpitching his heaters into tight spots?

Okay buddy, you keep saying all that.

I'm not even disagreeing that the offensive line doesn't need some help but that fact remains that the passing offense looked good last year, and this year it stinks like ****. What changed? Scheme and QB, along with some injuries on the OL.

Eddie Royal, our 100 catch man? Still missing, on the back of a milk carton.

chex
12-22-2009, 09:23 AM
So your excuse for Eddie Royal disappearing this is he can't break coverages or that the offensive line has never given Orton enough time to find him open? It's not from the fact that Orton isn't great at reading defenses or slowpitching his heaters into tight spots?

Okay buddy, you keep saying all that.

I'm not even disagreeing that the offensive line doesn't need some help but that fact remains that the passing offense looked good last year, and this year it stinks like ****. What changed? Scheme and QB, along with some injuries on the OL.

Eddie Royal, our 100 catch man? Still missing, on the back of a milk carton.

I can say the same thing about Matt Forte. Last year, with Orton not able to read defenses and slowpitching his heaters into tight spots, Forte ran like an all pro.

This year, with the 'franchise QB' taking the snaps, which we all were told would do wonders for the running game and loosen defenses and make the receivers look better than they actually are, Forte is crapping out and the Bears, much like the Broncos did with Cutler at the helm, are going to miss the playoffs.

Why have the Bears struggled so much on offense? Why could the Bears win with Orton, and not with Cutler? The Bears were touted as a Super Bowl team after the trade. What, someone came in the dark of night and switched all the players between then and now?

MileHighMagic
12-22-2009, 09:26 AM
Psychics. We need to hire psychics to assist in our drafting. If the FBI can hire them, why not us?

Crushaholic
12-22-2009, 09:32 AM
My Bears fan friend was nice enough to let me know when Cutler threw interceptions. It was hard for me to keep track when I was watching the Broncos game, at the same time...

TailgateNut
12-22-2009, 09:37 AM
So your excuse for Eddie Royal disappearing this is he can't break coverages or that the offensive line has never given Orton enough time to find him open? It's not from the fact that Orton isn't great at reading defenses or slowpitching his heaters into tight spots?

Okay buddy, you keep saying all that.

I'm not even disagreeing that the offensive line doesn't need some help but that fact remains that the passing offense looked good last year, and this year it stinks like ****. What changed? Scheme and QB, along with some injuries on the OL.

Eddie Royal, our 100 catch man? Still missing, on the back of a milk carton.

The offensive line needs SOME help??? Just you really just say "some"?

Did you watch the last game? Orton was being RAPED by the Raiders. The o-line was being manhandled beyond belief. When we can't run the ****ing ball
when we're a spitwad from the endzone we have greater issues than your simplifications.

Those runs up the middle are AWESOME. Orton should help push the pile.:rofl:

HEAV
12-22-2009, 10:05 AM
Cutler's ego is what keeps him from success.

tsiguy96
12-22-2009, 10:10 AM
amazing that after this season people STILL think cutler is the answer

bpc
12-22-2009, 10:16 AM
We do need some help. Left guard has been a sore spot for me over a couple seasons now. The pass blocking we did last year benefitted Ben Hamilton and covered his flaws but make no mistake, the issues we have are not new.

Ryan Harris hopefully will be healthy next year. That should help the OL. He played at a pro bowl level in 08'. Ryan Clady hopefully will start playing at a higher level like he did in 08'. Kuper has struggled some this year but hopefully he will return to a high level like he played in 08'... (Pattern, three stud offensive linemen fall off this year, coaching? Scheme?).

Weigmann is old but we have him signed up for another year and can take a stab at a solid center later in this draft.

So what is your response to Eddie Royal disappearing? Say what you want, the pass blocking when we were 6-0 was great. Orton was hardly ever touched. When Harris went down is when the pass blocking started faltering... that an it doesn't help that escapability of a statue and often sacks himself crapping down his leg when he sees somebody running hot at him.

(Once again, another sign of hypocrisy from the Orton/McD apologists because Orton's failings THIS year SHOULD be contributed to the OL, but two years ago in 2007 when the OL sucked with Erik Pears and a high Matt Lepsis on the edges, Cutler was getting destroyed, yet it was just Jay not stepping up and playing well... do I have that right?)

TonyR
12-22-2009, 10:56 AM
Ryan Harris hopefully will be healthy next year. That should help the OL. He played at a pro bowl level in 08'. Ryan Clady hopefully will start playing at a higher level like he did in 08'. Kuper has struggled some this year but hopefully he will return to a high level like he played in 08'... (Pattern, three stud offensive linemen fall off this year, coaching? Scheme?).

Scheme may have something to do with it, particularly in the run game, but it's probably more injuries to Harris and Kuper and sophomore slumps for Clady and Harris.

outdoor_miner
12-22-2009, 11:03 AM
So what is your response to Eddie Royal disappearing? Say what you want, the pass blocking when we were 6-0 was great. Orton was hardly ever touched. When Harris went down is when the pass blocking started faltering... that an it doesn't help that escapability of a statue and often sacks himself crapping down his leg when he sees somebody running hot at him.

(Once again, another sign of hypocrisy from the Orton/McD apologists because Orton's failings THIS year SHOULD be contributed to the OL, but two years ago in 2007 when the OL sucked with Erik Pears and a high Matt Lepsis on the edges, Cutler was getting destroyed, yet it was just Jay not stepping up and playing well... do I have that right?)

If you want to play the "hypocrisy game", how about this... In Denver, the failure of the running game is due to Kyle Orton. In Chicago, the failure of the the running game is because Forte and the O-Line sucks. Can't tell you how many times I've heard that argument.

Here's the difference: Nobody has claimed Kyle Orton is a "franchise quarterback". Nobody is claiming he has the ability to carry the team on his back. The argument is simply that he is an above average quarterback that can be a complimentary piece to a puzzle that includes a very good defense and a very good running game. Jay Cutler, on the other hand, was argued to be as good as Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, etc etc etc. He was a top 5 quarterback (according to some). Top 5 quarterbacks can change games on their own. He was supposed to turn the Bears crappy receivers into gold. He was supposed to let Matt Forte run wild. His athletic ability was supposed to overcome a crappy O-Line. No, no, and no.

Lastly - I won't even try to argue that Royal did not benefit from Cutler. I think he is the guy on the team that most benefited from Jay's ability to sling the ball into tight spaces. He has certainly been a casualty of the Kyle Orton era. With that being said, Royal's decline started in the 2nd half of last year. From game 9 on, Royal had 39 receptions for 355 yards and 1 touchdown. Not exactly setting the world on fire.

And lastly - is it really that big of a deal? Some guys benefit from certain quarterbacks. Some guys fit one system better than another. There's nothing wrong with that. When Shanahan lands somewhere, I'll bet you there will be players that lose production, and others that benefit. That's not even to say that I wouldn't like to see Royal used more. Because I would. But, to expect everyone to maintain the exact same production (especially when you consider that Denver will throw the ball about 100 less times this year than last year) is not realistic.

Rohirrim
12-22-2009, 11:06 AM
Give the guy some credit. He'd at least be able to handle a Red Lobster. Ha!

I don't know about that. They have a bar at Red Lobster. Might be some trouble there. ;D

Requiem
12-22-2009, 11:13 AM
I don't know how anybody could say we need "some" OL help, only to subsquently list three positions that could use upgrading via the draft or FA. Wow.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-22-2009, 11:25 AM
That's not what I said, but since you mention it:

Moreno
Ayers
Smith
?????

I'm hopeful that the trend continues. There may be some flaws in McDaniels revolutionary 60 man draft board. :giggle:

Actually the entire 2009 draft class has been pretty lackluster so far apart from a couple decent defensive players like Laurenitis and Orakpo. I would much rather have a second pick this next draft.

Smith and Moreno had nothing to do with Cutler picks other than allow them a luxury RB pick. And write moreno off at your own peril. The kid has skill.

Requiem
12-22-2009, 11:28 AM
I'm not sure what is necessarily wrong with a smaller draft board. That doesn't mean they didn't scout more than 60 players. It just means that they had a list of 60 strong players they felt could compete and help out the squad. Makes more sense having a nice wrap on 60 players as opposed to scatterbrained thoughts and comments on 300+ players.

Gort
12-22-2009, 11:35 AM
amazing that after this season people STILL think cutler is the answer

he is the answer!

it's the question that they have wrong. :)

i suggest this one...

"Who will never lead his teams to the playoffs, will get all of his coaches fired, and will set a modern record for career interceptions during his NFL career?"

Requiem
12-22-2009, 11:38 AM
Jay Cutler?

rastaman
12-22-2009, 11:43 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/1951843,CST-SPT-morrissey22.article

Cutler a 'franchise' QB? All who said so might be totally wrong


If it turns out to be a figment of an exuberant imagination, I'll apologize later.

But now? Leave me to my giddiness.
On Sunday, Bears general manager Jerry Angelo left open the possibility that Lovie Smith would not be back next year as head coach. The only sweeter utterance would have been the suggestion that the tag team of Smith and Angelo isn't long for Halas Hall.

But these are the Bears, and dark thoughts tend to follow like overcaffeinated gnats. Would you like me to bring you down from your buzz?

What if Smith and Angelo aren't the worst of the Bears' problems? What if the decision to trade for and pay Jay Cutler turns out to be?
This is not a discussion of whether the Bears were right to deal for Cutler in the offseason. Of course they were. They haven't had a quarterback since what would be defined as ''never.''

But what if all those people who insisted the Bears now had a ''franchise'' quarterback were wrong? What if, unbeknownst to them, the franchise Cutler was meant to be quarterbacking is a Long John Silver's in New Jersey?

All year, Cutler's defenders have been saying he is surrounded by substandard wide receivers. Well, guess what? The quarterback is playing worse than Johnny Knox, Earl Bennett, Devin Hester (when he's healthy) and Devin Aromashodu.
Even Flacco clearly better
Yes, the Bears are without a bona fide No. 1 receiver. But maybe, just maybe, the people around Cutler are playing down to his level. Did you ever think we'd get to this point in the discussion?

To repeat: Cutler is a bigger problem right now than anybody who catches his passes. It's just another reason why Smith and his staff need to be sent away immediately after the season.

If the organization doesn't find someone who can right Cutler, it will have been on the losing end of one of the worst trades in NFL history.
Remember the notion that Cutler was going to make everyone around him better? Um, er, ah -- no. Not even close. In fact, if the Bears and the Ravens had traded quarterbacks before Sunday's game, Baltimore's Joe Flacco would have done more with the Bears' receivers than Cutler was able to do.

I know: That's not saying much, considering Cutler's passer rating was 7.9.
Flacco is in his second year in the league, yet looks leaps and bounds ahead of Cutler in terms of maturity and development. The Bears' quarterback is nearing the end of his fourth year, and he's regressing at Mach speed.

It turns out that a howitzer of an arm does not automatically translate into success on the football field. We were all transfixed by that arm in training camp. We saw what we had never seen in Chicago: a quarterback who could make any pass on the field.

Unfortunately, too many of those passes land in the hands of the opposition. Cutler leads the NFL with 25 interceptions.
To hang this whole thing on him is obviously unfair, but so is hanging it on the receivers. And although the offensive line has been awful this season, it didn't play poorly Sunday. Cutler had plenty of time to throw, which means he had plenty of time to be bad.

And by the way, if tight end Greg Olsen could pick up the nearest white courtesy phone, that would be swell.
The problem is not simply offensive coordinator Ron Turner's system, either. If you've seen some of Cutler's errant passes this season, then you know it's not the offensive structure. Cutler is the repeat offender here.

Going into the season, the bigger concern was his emotional makeup. How would the ornery one handle hard times? With resolve?
Or by falling apart?
Maybe Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal made Cutler the quarterback he was in Denver.

A search for substance
Surprised by how much Cutler has struggled this season, Lovie?
''We're surprised that we're 5-9 right now, but that's kind of how it is,'' Smith said Monday. ''Eventually all those things that we thought would happen I feel like will happen. They just haven't so far.''
Any good things that could happen to Cutler ahead would be greatly aided by Smith's ouster. Now, if only we knew who makes the final decisions at Halas Hall.

It's not very becoming to show glee over the possibility of a person or persons being unemployed. I know this. It's not something that makes me particularly proud.
But there's a tremendous lack of substance to the head coach and the GM. Let's hope Cutler hasn't been infected with it.

Ah so which is it after your rant?

Do you hate Cutler?

Do you hope he continues to fail?

Are you glad he's failing?

:sunshine:

WolfpackGuy
12-22-2009, 11:47 AM
I'm glad Jay is failing this year because it means a better draft pick.

I think in the long term, "The Coach" and the team would've been better off keeping him.

Rohirrim
12-22-2009, 11:48 AM
I'm not sure what is necessarily wrong with a smaller draft board. That doesn't mean they didn't scout more than 60 players. It just means that they had a list of 60 strong players they felt could compete and help out the squad. Makes more sense having a nice wrap on 60 players as opposed to scatterbrained thoughts and comments on 300+ players.

That "limited" draft board really makes me queasy. Especially when it comes to the UFAs. That could be quite a few diamonds in the rough this year if all the juniors who are expected to come out do so.

rastaman
12-22-2009, 11:55 AM
amazing that after this season people STILL think cutler is the answer

Its amazing that the Cutler haters believe that he's distained for failure so early in his career. :spit:

Rohirrim
12-22-2009, 11:58 AM
Its amazing that the Cutler haters believe that he's distained for failure so early in his career. :spit:

If it was year one or year two, I'd agree. Year four? You really should be seeing something by now.

Requiem
12-22-2009, 12:02 PM
That "limited" draft board really makes me queasy. Especially when it comes to the UFAs. That could be quite a few diamonds in the rough this year if all the juniors who are expected to come out do so.

It seems like the Broncos had no problems going out and getting players they wanted as UDFA's anyways.  Like I said.  The final list might have been sixty players, but that doesn't mean they didn't have information on more.  Given the nature of the draft, I can see why someone like McDaniels would opt for the shorter list. 

I struggled with accepting the idea for a long time.   The reasons for having it probably go deeper than what we are seeing at a surface level.To many of us, "Oh man, only 60 dudes on their board, what!?" -- seems ridiculous because us draft dorks probably like 60 dudes who we think can help out our team.  The number does seem a little low, but as I've said before, it is understandable.  I'd rather have the ins-and-outs out 60 prospects than half-assed reports based on a few games of 300+ prospects.

I think you follow.  We might just have to agree to disagree.   I don't think having a smaller draft board hurts our chances for success in the draft.  I'd argue the latter, stating that a more defined draft board, with solid player analysis, will benefit us into finding the players we like.Could go either way. 

All I can say is I hope we can get some great players this year and in the future. 

TailgateNut
12-22-2009, 12:02 PM
If it was year one or year two, I'd agree. Year four? You really should be seeing something by now.

I'm sure rasta and Cutlers' other nuthuggers wouldn't be praising him if he were still here and had thrown 25 interceptions and led us to a 5 win record.
Maybe they would, considering.........

bpc
12-22-2009, 12:04 PM
I'm not sure what is necessarily wrong with a smaller draft board. That doesn't mean they didn't scout more than 60 players. It just means that they had a list of 60 strong players they felt could compete and help out the squad. Makes more sense having a nice wrap on 60 players as opposed to scatterbrained thoughts and comments on 300+ players.

Of course you don't. Since you so loudly trumpeted your return, you've been homering away on all things McDaniel.

Maybe the truncated draft board isn't such a bad idea outside of the fact that a majority of the draft picks have sucked ass this year and haven't done much of anything.

The smaller draft board wouldn't even have been known outside of a fit of arrogance, McD just had to let the media know how smart he was again.

"BWHWHAHAHAHA, watch how I over draft CB and TE! BUWUWHWHAHAHAHA!!!"

That McD... such a clever guy.

Rivers Delivers
12-22-2009, 12:09 PM
This is such old news... at least... to me it is.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2221167#post2221167

But, I actually called him Jeff George a couple years ago when he got his panties in a bunch over the jawing with Rivers.

I'm glad the world now gets to see the truth.

Even your very own Champ Bailey has come around to Philip's bandwagon.

Cutler will never win.

Requiem
12-22-2009, 12:09 PM
You'd be the only one to correlate having a smaller draft board as to the reason why the "majority" of our draft picks this year have sucked ass. You know, it fits your anti-McDaniels agenda. At any case, I'd venture to say we've had several of our players doing well for us this year as rookies. And I'm not sure how I've been homering away on all things McDaniels.

If you want to at least have a debate or argument, don't be disingenuous when representing the points of view others hold on issues.

Rohirrim
12-22-2009, 12:10 PM
It seems like the Broncos had no problems going out and getting players they wanted as UDFA's anyways.  Like I said.  The final list might have been sixty players, but that doesn't mean they didn't have information on more.  Given the nature of the draft, I can see why someone like McDaniels would opt for the shorter list. 

I struggled with accepting the idea for a long time.   The reasons for having it probably go deeper than what we are seeing at a surface level.To many of us, "Oh man, only 60 dudes on their board, what!?" -- seems ridiculous because us draft dorks probably like 60 dudes who we think can help out our team.  The number does seem a little low, but as I've said before, it is understandable.  I'd rather have the ins-and-outs out 60 prospects than half-assed reports based on a few games of 300+ prospects.

I think you follow.  We might just have to agree to disagree.   I don't think having a smaller draft board hurts our chances for success in the draft.  I'd argue the latter, stating that a more defined draft board, with solid player analysis, will benefit us into finding the players we like.Could go either way. 

All I can say is I hope we can get some great players this year and in the future. 

I'd be curious to know who some of your prospects are? So far, my wish list includes Dan Williams, Iaputi, Tennant and Canfield.

Rohirrim
12-22-2009, 12:13 PM
I'm sure rasta and Cutlers' other nuthuggers wouldn't be praising him if he were still here and had thrown 25 interceptions and led us to a 5 win record.
Maybe they would, considering.........

Didn't Elway pull off "The Drive" in his third year? I hate to break it to the Cutlerites, but what you see (cough, INTs, cough) is what you get.

rastaman
12-22-2009, 12:14 PM
If you want to play the "hypocrisy game", how about this... In Denver, the failure of the running game is due to Kyle Orton. In Chicago, the failure of the the running game is because Forte and the O-Line sucks. Can't tell you how many times I've heard that argument.

Here's the difference: Nobody has claimed Kyle Orton is a "franchise quarterback". Nobody is claiming he has the ability to carry the team on his back. The argument is simply that he is an above average quarterback that can be a complimentary piece to a puzzle that includes a very good defense and a very good running game. Jay Cutler, on the other hand, was argued to be as good as Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, etc etc etc. He was a top 5 quarterback (according to some). Top 5 quarterbacks can change games on their own. He was supposed to turn the Bears crappy receivers into gold. He was supposed to let Matt Forte run wild. His athletic ability was supposed to overcome a crappy O-Line. No, no, and no.

Breeze, Manning, Brady do not have the Bears WR's to throw to. Nor the bears OL protecting them. So this is a bad comparison. Top 5 QB's in this league cannot change games on their own! They need a system to show case their talents as well as talented skilled players as well.

Lastly - I won't even try to argue that Royal did not benefit from Cutler. I think he is the guy on the team that most benefited from Jay's ability to sling the ball into tight spaces. He has certainly been a casualty of the Kyle Orton era. With that being said, Royal's decline started in the 2nd half of last year. From game 9 on, Royal had 39 receptions for 355 yards and 1 touchdown. Not exactly setting the world on fire.

Royal has either suffered thru the sophmore jinx or Orton just can't get him the ball on time and accurately, or Orton and Royal need to spend the offseason getting on the same page. But we have seen is Orton throwing the ball behind Royal, passes Royal was required to dig out of the dirt, overthrew Royal, or never hit Royal in full stride.

And lastly - is it really that big of a deal? Some guys benefit from certain quarterbacks. Some guys fit one system better than another. There's nothing wrong with that. When Shanahan lands somewhere, I'll bet you there will be players that lose production, and others that benefit. That's not even to say that I wouldn't like to see Royal used more. Because I would. But, to expect everyone to maintain the exact same production (especially when you consider that Denver will throw the ball about 100 less times this year than last year) is not realistic.

Thanks for Lowering the Ball of Expectations on Ole' Uncle Orton. Now we know what we have to look forward to Orton as the starting QB until McD can find his replacement.

Its going to be rough watching Orton next season.....especially if he doesn't have a enormous infrastructure on both sides of the ball next season.

The OL, the DL, the LB, CB's, WR's, SS's RB's will all get the blame during next season (as they have this season) if the Broncos are playing badly, inconsistently, losing.....while Prince Orton is given the benefit of the doubt and escape blame. Orton is beyond approach b/c his apologist are just a hiccup away to come to his rescue.

Rivers Delivers
12-22-2009, 12:17 PM
Didn't Elway pull off "The Drive" in his third year? I hate to break it to the Cutlerites, but what you see (cough, INTs, cough) is what you get.

This is about as clear as it gets.

I just can't understand why any Bronco fan would still want this guy or want to be a fan of his.

He basically told your entire franchise to go fu.ck itself. And then he proceeded to fu.ck himself.

It really is a beautiful thing.

bpc
12-22-2009, 12:18 PM
I'm not even down on some of them. Knowshon has be so/so, Ayers has been okay, Smith terrible, Quinn = practice squad thus far.

Bruton and McBath may have been the best picks based on what they've done this year impacting special teams and stepping in to play big roles on a defense has kept us in the hunt.

My problem is the arrogance of McD... just had to casually announce our draft board size like at the age of 32, he's re-defining decade old NFL practices because "he's that damn good". I hope he's great but for his guru status, Matt Cassell is proving it was more about throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker at this point.

McD as a HC is 8-6... heavily contributed by his DC choice. That's the good.

The bad is his offense has absolutely dragged this team from a 6-0 record to an 8-6 record with the playoffs in the balance. That's the bad.

Hopefully he can get us into the playoffs.

Bronx33
12-22-2009, 12:25 PM
jay got what he wanted...

TailgateNut
12-22-2009, 12:27 PM
I'm not even down on some of them. Knowshon has be so/so, Ayers has been okay, Smith terrible, Quinn = practice squad thus far.

Bruton and McBath may have been the best picks based on what they've done this year impacting special teams and stepping in to play big roles on a defense has kept us in the hunt.

My problem is the arrogance of McD... just had to casually announce our draft board size like at the age of 32, he's re-defining decade old NFL practices because "he's that damn good". I hope he's great but for his guru status, Matt Cassell is proving it was more about throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker at this point.

McD as a HC is 8-6... heavily contributed by his DC choice. That's the good.

The bad is his offense has absolutely dragged this team from a 6-0 record to an 8-6 record with the playoffs in the balance. That's the bad.

Hopefully he can get us into the playoffs.


****ing Orton should have gone onto the field and stopped JaFatBoy and Co from marching down the field. Damn Him.
He also should have stopped Peeeeyton from beating us.

****ing Clown.

azbroncfan
12-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Give the guy some credit. He'd at least be able to handle a Red Lobster. Ha!

I remember when your homerism wouldn't trade Jay for anyone in the league including Manning or Brady.

Popps
12-22-2009, 12:56 PM
Cutler a 'franchise' QB? All who said so might be totally wrong

Gosh, now where have we been hearing that for quite some time?


:)

Florida_Bronco
12-22-2009, 01:23 PM
I remember when your homerism wouldn't trade Jay for anyone in the league including Manning or Brady.

What is it with you and following me around obsessively? ??? It seems like every post I see you make is another attempt at making a dig at me. You act like I stole your Halloween candy or something.

As for Cutler, yeah I was pretty blinded by his physical talent, the fact that he was Shanny's new toy and the fact that he was a warrior fighting through diabetes in 2007. I think Popps originally made this comparison, but it's alot like getting dumped by a girl you were in love with even though she was a bitch. When she was still around you only saw the good and try to blame her shortcomings on something else, but when she's gone you start to look at things objectively and see her for what she really is.

Well, that's what we got here, and the view points changed accordingly.

NYBronco
12-22-2009, 02:11 PM
Cutler Sucks.
That's the only good thing Mcd has done.

Imagine Mcd telling Cutler not to throw in tight spots.We would have won at most 2 or 3 games this season with Cutler.

Wow... you have got to be kidding!

Paladin
12-22-2009, 02:33 PM
Ryan Harris hopefully will be healthy next year. That should help the OL. He played at a pro bowl level in 08'. Ryan Clady hopefully will start playing at a higher level like he did in 08'. Kuper has struggled some this year but hopefully he will return to a high level like he played in 08'... (Pattern, three stud offensive linemen fall off this year, coaching? Scheme?).

(Once again, another sign of hypocrisy from the Orton/McD apologists because Orton's failings THIS year SHOULD be contributed to the OL, but two years ago in 2007 when the OL sucked with Erik Pears and a high Matt Lepsis on the edges, Cutler was getting destroyed, yet it was just Jay not stepping up and playing well... do I have that right?)


Did they chanage tje Oloine coachces? I thoiught Rick denneson ws still there. Lat year's Oline coach? Gosh, Chris, your hate for McD and Orton is just pathetic. You really need to take a few days off. Somce of us around here are not happy with some of teh results of the play so far this year, but we remain more positive and supportive of the team. It takes a team to win or lose, and it is not always the coaches or individual players.


And yeah, Cutler sucked bad two years ago. And no one on the team told him to throw the damm interception in the Bills' games or the Faider's game.

Paladin
12-22-2009, 02:46 PM
My problem is the arrogance of McD... just had to casually announce our draft board size like at the age of 32, he's re-defining decade old NFL practices because "he's that damn good".

So that's what's burning your arse? It had been said there were two boards. The first was the 32 names on the short board. Those were the ones he'd like to draft and wer best guesses as to availbility. There was a second board that had more like 200 or so names and were there in case none of the 32 made it to the picks the Broncos were going to make. That practice was used by the Pats. The board was not made up by McD alone. The entire scouting staff was involved.

But you take a remark that was made out of hand and turn it into a major hate campaign. That is fuggin stupid.....

It actually was the Cutler deal that fried your arse, isn't it? Well, I am glad Cutler is no longer a Bronco and he ain't coming back, Good.

outdoor_miner
12-22-2009, 03:03 PM
So that's what's burning your arse? It had been said there were two boards. The first was the 32 names on the short board. Those were the ones he'd like to draft and wer best guesses as to availbility. There was a second board that had more like 200 or so names and were there in case none of the 32 made it to the picks the Broncos were going to make. That practice was used by the Pats. The board was not made up by McD alone. The entire scouting staff was involved.

But you take a remark that was made out of hand and turn it into a major hate campaign. That is fuggin stupid.....

It actually was the Cutler deal that fried your arse, isn't it? Well, I am glad Cutler is no longer a Bronco and he ain't coming back, Good.

Thank you. The draft board nonsense is out of control. People act like McD only wanted 32 players and that was it. If Brian Orakpo had slid to the 2nd, McD would have passed because he wasn't on the list of the 32. It's comical.

You can be guaran-friggin-teed that whatever he did on draft day, he learned from Belichick and the Patriots (not that that's necessarily a great thing based on the Pats recent drafts). He certainly wasn't trying to "reinvent" draft philosophy in some grasp at glory.

azbroncfan
12-22-2009, 03:09 PM
What is it with you and following me around obsessively? ??? It seems like every post I see you make is another attempt at making a dig at me. You act like I stole your Halloween candy or something.

As for Cutler, yeah I was pretty blinded by his physical talent, the fact that he was Shanny's new toy and the fact that he was a warrior fighting through diabetes in 2007. I think Popps originally made this comparison, but it's alot like getting dumped by a girl you were in love with even though she was a b****. When she was still around you only saw the good and try to blame her shortcomings on something else, but when she's gone you start to look at things objectively and see her for what she really is.

Well, that's what we got here, and the view points changed accordingly.

You could just say Yeah I am a blind homer and will excuse and defend whatever seems better for the Denver Broncos. That would save you 200 words. I completely owned you! :rofl:

Requiem
12-22-2009, 04:40 PM
I'd be curious to know who some of your prospects are? So far, my wish list includes Dan Williams, Iaputi, Tennant and Canfield.

I will be releasing hopefully a 20 page or so PDF in accordance with BroncoTalk sometime around February. :thumbsup:

Mr
12-22-2009, 04:53 PM
Nothing Toe Head is doing in Chicago surprises me.

Big Arm + Toe Head = 25 int's

The guy is a turd in a box of breath mints.
good riddance.

baja
12-22-2009, 05:39 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=84853

Mr
12-22-2009, 05:42 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=84853

Well Said.
wow first rep in 5 years or so.

Florida_Bronco
12-22-2009, 06:24 PM
You could just say Yeah I am a blind homer and will excuse and defend whatever seems better for the Denver Broncos. Not quite.

Bronco Bob
12-22-2009, 08:05 PM
This is about as clear as it gets.

I just can't understand why any Bronco fan would still want this guy or want to be a fan of his.

He basically told your entire franchise to go fu.ck itself. And then he proceeded to fu.ck himself.

It really is a beautiful thing.

I don't think any Broncos fans do. All we have here is a few Cutler nut-huggers trolling the OM.