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Taco John
12-20-2009, 09:55 PM
Loose transcription for those that didn't catch the press conference:



McDaniels: It was a hard fought division game. Physical. Similar to the first one. They did more than we did at the line of scrimmage today. They took advantage of their red zone opportunites. We struggled to do that. Any time you've got to kick field goals in a game that is going to be close anyway, it's going to cost you in the end. I give them credit, Coach Cable and their staff did a nice job and had a good game plan, and we've got to go back to work.


Reporter question: What are your comments on their running game?


McDaniels: Just that they've got good backs and we didn't play the running game as good as we'd have liked to. There's no question about that. They had a bunch of big runs. That was key. We had them backed up at the 11 and then 3 plays later they're in the red zone. Anytime tha tyou're going to give up 25, 30 yard runs or more in a game those are going to pile up on you. Maybe they had half their yards in 4 carries? We didn't play sound enough. We didn't play fundamentally. We didn't play as well as we would like to play and they took advantage of it.


Reporter: Was that a designed pass to Ryan Clady?

McDaniels: It was a gadget play.

Reporter: What made you think that play would work?

McDaniels: I wouldn't call it if I didn't think it would work.

Reporter: (paraphrasing this - hard to hear) Do you think injuries to the safeties was a concern in the running game?

McDaniels: (downplaying) Eh, from what I gathered on the field,I didn't feel David Bruton let us down at all. I didn't feel like he was a liability. That isn't a good excuse. For the ball to keep getting into the secondary, we need to do a better job before it gets there. We certainly didn't today.

Reporter: (paraphrasing - guessing again at reporters question) Offense out there seemed to struggle

McDaniels: We got it down there to the 2. Negative runs first of all. Negative plays. Took a sack. Had a penalty. Then on the last drive there we had it to the two and went backwards again. Anytime you end up in the red zone and you end up in second and longer or third and longer it's trouble because you don't have much room in the passing game to try to overcome that. We had three shots there at the end and didn't get it in... so... We've just got to execute better. We've got to find a way to punch the ball in whether it be in the running game or in the pasisng game. But we didn't do it today.

Reporter: There was that wierd delay there - how did that affect you?

McDaniels: It didn't affect us. It was both teams. It was a green light and it was hitting players in the face. They were just taking precautions to make sure both teams were safe.

Reporter: Big picture wise, you now have to win your last two probably, and maybe even need some help because of the tie breakers --

McDaniels: (interrupting the question) I don't know all the tiebreaker stuff. I have no idea whatever else happened today. But yeah. We go from win three and we're in automatically to making it hard on ourselves. There's no question about it. But winning two is the best we can do now, and we're going to get ready to play Philadelphia. We know that's going to be a very difficult challenge to go there and defeat a team that is playing really well right now. But that's what we've got to do. That's the situation we've put ourselves in.

Reporter: (unintelligable but this is what it sounded like to me) In a game like this where *garble* (good run defense?) you've got to get more out of your runningback.

McDaniels: We've got to get more out of our running game. It's not the back. The back has to help him. The line has got to do better. The tight ends have got to do better. The fullback has got to do better. We can do better. The running game is everybody. When it works well, it's a lot of people working well together. And when it doesn't work well, there's a lot of people that need to do something different. Today we strugged to make it go. We had a few good runs here and there, but certainly not enough on a consistent basis so that we could stay with it longer. We ended up in a lot of second and longs and that's never a good thing.

Reporter: There was one big play to Brandon Stokely. What was the secret to that? Why did that happen?

McDaniels: You know, it's a man-to-man team. We kind of picked off a route on who was in coverage on Stokely and that's why he had space once he caught it, because everybody else was covering someone on the play. So,certainly, we've had our spurts of making big plays, and would like to make a bunch of them. Sometimes in football you have to do it the long hard way. They took away a lot of things that we'd have liked to do today, and we didn't make enough plays to win the game.

Reporter: (paraphrasing) On the Raider's last drive, talk about what went wrong for you there.

McDaniels: You know, we were playing tight coverage and trying to take away the things we thought they'd go to. We got them in third down situations - even a fourth down situation I belive it was - and Russel made some really big plays. He stood in there took some hits. Give him credit. Come in that situation late and be able to drive his team in there. That's what decides a lot of close division games late in the year. They made the plays in the two minute drive and we didn't.

Reporter: Generally, you were running Knowshon on first downs, and it wasn't working. Why did you stick with that when there wasn't the execution that you talked about?

McDaniels: Well I mean, you know, if you have a bad play early in the game, I don't think that you can cancel the running game --

Reporter (interrupting) w-w-w-ell I'm not blaming Knowshon. I'm saying it wasn't working -

McDaniels (interrupting back) We have to block it better. (getting a little more animated) You got to block it better. You got to run it batter. You've got to call better plays. There's a lot of things that go into football to make it work, and certainly I'll be the first one to stand in line and say we've got to do a better job. We can coach better, run better, play better, block better. We didn't do enough today.

Reporter: Are you concerned about where your players are mentally - I mean you come off the loss, and now you've got Christmas.

McDaniels: No every team is in the same situation having to deal with the distractions. We put ourselves in a situation where we've got to win two games and see what happens. There are a lot of teams that aren't in this situation. So if we're concerned about our mental state now then we've got other problems. We should be excited about the opportunity that we have. We need to play well, coach well, and see what happens.

Reporter: Can you talk a little about you're decision to go with Tony Carter.

McDaniels: Tony really earned the opportunity, he really had. From what he did in practice and I think he represented himself well today for the most part. I don't know how many balls were thrown or caught on him. But I know he made some key plays for us. It was a process. All of our guys get a chance in practice to show what they're doing and how they're improving, and he just has earned that opportunity. I don't think he did a whole lot today to discourage us. He held up well until he got dinged there.

Reproter: You played him a few snaps at safety?

McDaniels: That was just a "mixer" call there. We had three corners in the game and one safety. It was a mixer call to confuse them to what we were doing. But he's definitely a corner.

go_broncos
12-20-2009, 10:00 PM
Loose transcription for those that didn't catch the press conference:



McDaniels: It was a hard fought division game. Physical. Similar to the first one. They did more than we did at the line of scrimmage today. They took advantage of their red zone opportunites. We struggled to do that. Any time you've got to kick field goals in a game that is going to be close anyway, it's going to cost you in the end. I give them credit, Coach Cable and their staff did a nice job and had a good game plan, and we've got to go back to work.


Reporter question: What are your comments on their running game?


McDaniels: Just that they've got good backs and we didn't play the running game as good as we'd have liked to. There's no question about that. They had a bunch of big runs. That was key. We had them backed up at the 11 and then 3 plays later they're in the red zone. Anytime tha tyou're going to give up 25, 30 yard runs or more in a game those are going to pile up on you. Maybe they had half their yards in 4 carries? We didn't play sound enough. We didn't play fundamentally. We didn't play as well as we would like to play and they took advantage of it.


Reporter: Was that a designed pass to Ryan Clady?

McDaniels: It was a gadget play.

Reporter: What made you think that play would work?

McDaniels: I wouldn't call it if I didn't think it would work.

Reporter: (paraphrasing this - hard to hear) Do you think injuries to the safeties was a concern in the running game?

McDaniels: (downplaying) Eh, from what I gathered on the field,I didn't feel David Bruton let us down at all. I didn't feel like he was a liability. That isn't a good excuse. For the ball to keep getting into the secondary, we need to do a better job before it gets there. We certainly didn't today.

Reporter: (paraphrasing - guessing again at reporters question) Offense out there seemed to struggle

McDaniels: We got it down there to the 2. Negative runs first of all. Negative plays. Took a sack. Had a penalty. Then on the last drive there we had it to the two and went backwards again. Anytime you end up in the red zone and you end up in second and longer or third and longer it's trouble because you don't have much room in the passing game to try to overcome that. We had three shots there at the end and didn't get it in... so... We've just got to execute better. We've got to find a way to punch the ball in whether it be in the running game or in the pasisng game. But we didn't do it today.

Reporter: There was that wierd delay there - how did that affect you?

McDaniels: It didn't affect us. It was both teams. It was a green light and it was hitting players in the face. They were just taking precautions to make sure both teams were safe.

Reporter: Big picture wise, you now have to win your last two probably, and maybe even need some help because of the tie breakers --

McDaniels: (interrupting the question) I don't know all the tiebreaker stuff. I have no idea whatever else happened today. But yeah. We go from win three and we're in automatically to making it hard on ourselves. There's no question about it. But winning two is the best we can do now, and we're going to get ready to play Philadelphia. We know that's going to be a very difficult challenge to go there and defeat a team that is playing really well right now. But that's what we've got to do. That's the situation we've put ourselves in.

Reporter: (unintelligable but this is what it sounded like to me) In a game like this where *garble* (good run defense?) you've got to get more out of your runningback.

McDaniels: We've got to get more out of our running game. It's not the back. The back has to help him. The line has got to do better. The tight ends have got to do better. The fullback has got to do better. We can do better. The running game is everybody. When it works well, it's a lot of people working well together. And when it doesn't work well, there's a lot of people that need to do something different. Today we strugged to make it go. We had a few good runs here and there, but certainly not enough on a consistent basis so that we could stay with it longer. We ended up in a lot of second and longs and that's never a good thing.

Reporter: There was one big play to Brandon Stokely. What was the secret to that? Why did that happen?

McDaniels: You know, it's a man-to-man team. We kind of picked off a route on who was in coverage on Stokely and that's why he had space once he caught it, because everybody else was covering someone on the play. So,certainly, we've had our spurts of making big plays, and would like to make a bunch of them. Sometimes in football you have to do it the long hard way. They took away a lot of things that we'd have liked to do today, and we didn't make enough plays to win the game.

Reporter: (paraphrasing) On the Raider's last drive, talk about what went wrong for you there.

McDaniels: You know, we were playing tight coverage and trying to take away the things we thought they'd go to. We got them in third down situations - even a fourth down situation I belive it was - and Russel made some really big plays. He stood in there took some hits. Give him credit. Come in that situation late and be able to drive his team in there. That's what decides a lot of close division games late in the year. They made the plays in the two minute drive and we didn't.

Reporter: Generally, you were running Knowshon on first downs, and it wasn't working. Why did you stick with that when there wasn't the execution that you talked about?

McDaniels: Well I mean, you know, if you have a bad play early in the game, I don't think that you can cancel the running game --

Reporter (interrupting) w-w-w-ell I'm not blaming Knowshon. I'm saying it wasn't working -

McDaniels (interrupting back) We have to block it better. (getting a little more animated) You got to block it better. You got to run it batter. You've got to call better plays. There's a lot of things that go into football to make it work, and certainly I'll be the first one to stand in line and say we've got to do a better job. We can coach better, run better, play better, block better. We didn't do enough today.

Reporter: Are you concerned about where your players are mentally - I mean you come off the loss, and now you've got Christmas.

McDaniels: No every team is in the same situation having to deal with the distractions. We put ourselves in a situation where we've got to win two games and see what happens. There are a lot of teams that aren't in this situation. So if we're concerned about our mental state now then we've got other problems. We should be excited about the opportunity that we have. We need to play well, coach well, and see what happens.

Reporter: Can you talk a little about you're decision to go with Tony Carter.

McDaniels: Tony really earned the opportunity, he really had. From what he did in practice and I think he represented himself well today for the most part. I don't know how many balls were thrown or caught on him. But I know he made some key plays for us. It was a process. All of our guys get a chance in practice to show what they're doing and how they're improving, and he just has earned that opportunity. I don't think he did a whole lot today to discourage us. He held up well until he got dinged there.

Reproter: You played him a few snaps at safety?

McDaniels: That was just a "mixer" call there. We had three corners in the game and one safety. It was a mixer call to confuse them to what we were doing. But he's definitely a corner.

They should have asked about Hillis..

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:01 PM
Nothing there that I don't disagree with. I watched part of the interview on NFL.com and he didn't look too animated on the segment they showed. I still think that he needs to try something different in the run game.. at least until he has the personnel to run his scheme effectively.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:01 PM
They should have asked about Hillis..

Why, the answer would have been the same... It's not the running back, it's the whole team doing their jobs.

lex
12-20-2009, 10:06 PM
A lot of questions about the playcalling.

Popps
12-20-2009, 10:09 PM
Good stuff. All very logical.

Four red-zone trips without TDs and you know that **** is going to come back to bite you.

He wants to run the ball and control the clock. I like the kind of team we're building, but we've got to get better up front.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 10:10 PM
Having our offense fall off this much really distresses me. We had one of the rising gem offenses in the game, and to fall off this much is tough to take. Scheffler, Royal, and Stokley (not to mention Hillis, or the entire offensive line) are nowhere near what they were last season. It's hard for me to believe that their talent just evaporated. How is it that a quarterback "as bad as Jay Cutler is" was able to get so much out of these guys, and we can't put together anything with them now?

bpc
12-20-2009, 10:17 PM
Why are reporters such pussies? Ask the tough questions.

Why no Hillis? Instead of wasting passes to OT's who have zero career receptions, why don't you give Brandon Marshall a chance to make some plays in the air? Are you attempting any ZBS plays, if not, why? How come there wasn't any help offered to Polumbus when he was getting beaten badly early on? Why do you think Eddie Royal is struggling vs. catching 100 passes last year?

What is the defense doing to offset offenses gameplanning to stop Elvis? Why was there a lack of blitzing on Jamarcus Russell on the final drive when he clearly struggles against it?

Our reporters are weak. We need to import some from New York to ask the tough questions. I think somebody should really try to out this arrogant angle. It seems like it's piping under McD's skin.

"HOOOOOOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME!?!?! Don't you know i'm 32 and the youngest head coach in the NFL!!!!!!"

Taco John
12-20-2009, 10:26 PM
Why are reporters such pussies? Ask the tough questions.

Why no Hillis? Instead of wasting passes to OT's who have zero career receptions, why don't you give Brandon Marshall a chance to make some plays in the air? Are you attempting any ZBS plays, if not, why? How come there wasn't any help offered to Polumbus when he was getting beaten badly early on? Why do you think Eddie Royal is struggling vs. catching 100 passes last year?

What is the defense doing to offset offenses gameplanning to stop Elvis? Why was there a lack of blitzing on Jamarcus Russell on the final drive when he clearly struggles against it?

Our reporters are weak. We need to import some from New York to ask the tough questions. I think somebody should really try to out this arrogant angle. It seems like it's piping under McD's skin.

"HOOOOOOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME!?!?! Don't you know i'm 32 and the youngest head coach in the NFL!!!!!!"


They're worried about their jobs and their access. There are not too many reporters who are "tenured" in today's media environment.

Atwater His Ass
12-20-2009, 10:27 PM
I kept track of the plays on 1st and 3rd downs today for us on offense. I stopped towards the end of the 4th quarter due to rage, so a few are missed but still gives a good picture.

On 1st down, we ran the ball 17 times, passed 6 times and ran play action 4 times.

On 3rd down, we ran 3 times, passed 12 times and 0 play action.

2 of the 3rd down runs were sneaks by Orton, of which only 1 was converted. You people want to complain about Hillis? Our offense can't even get to a managable 3rd and short to even give ANY RB a shot at converting.

Our average 3rd down and distance was 7.8 yards per. We finished 4-15 on 3rd down conversions.

This is the epitome of the run run pass punt offense. I'm too lazy to go calculate our 1st down yardage average, but you already know it can't be good when we are averaging almost 8 yards to go on 3rd down.

Kyle Orton is not the type of QB that can get you 8 yards on 3rd down consistently.

Other thing to note is that we only ran 4 play action plays the entire game. So we aren't even attempting to take advantage of being stubborn and running on almost every 1st down.

McD is also putting Orton in a bad spot by calling the game this way. The defense knows when we are going to pass. I still don't know if it's McD aggorance, or if he doesn't trust the ability of Orton to open up the playbook.

In any case, it's sad seeing such a sad, predictable offense these days.

Popps
12-20-2009, 10:27 PM
Having our offense fall off this much really distresses me. We had one of the rising gem offenses ?

50% agree.

Distressing offense. But we were FAR from a "gem" last season. Fancy fantasy numbers don't mean anything. We were sloppy with the ball, had troubles in short yardage, had troubles on 3rd down, etc. We played from behind a lot and piled up yardage numbers. Middle of the pack at scoring... so hardly a gem, and it certainly wasn't "rising."

That said, I agree... we're stuck in quicksand right now, and have to figure out a way to get this thing kick-started. Unfortunately, I think it's going to take time and talent. Those are the remedies. This is a process... and as painful as it is, it doesn't happen overnight.

Remember, McDaniels was basically given Marshall, Clady, Royal and Sheff.

Marshall has had a great season. Clady has had a great season. Sheffler has been so-so, but made big catches. Royal has made clutch catches, but his numbers could definitely be better.

Outside of that, it's a full re-do. We're reworking this entire system. It's not like he inherited the 2000 Rams.

It's as painful for me to watch as it is for you. We show flashes, though... and I think a couple of real linemen would make a dramatic impact, immediately.

Actually, I think a healthy Buck might have been enough today, alone. But, Harris and Buck would have definitely been a difference-maker.

bpc
12-20-2009, 10:28 PM
They're worried about their jobs and their access. There are not too many reporters who are "tenured" in today's media environment.

That's pathetic and understandable at the same time. Wouldn't want to enrage the 32 year old egg head on his arrogance. He might berate somebody for questioning his brilliance as a playcaller.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:29 PM
I wouldn't think Woody is afraid to ask.

What somebody should ask is why can't we get Brian Griese or John Lynch to call our games. Phil Simms? WTF do I have to listen to Randy Cross openly cheer for the Raiders? I know this isn't a question for McD, but the game was frustrating and listening to those ****wads was even worse/

TheReverend
12-20-2009, 10:30 PM
Reporter: Was that a designed pass to Ryan Clady?

McDaniels: It was a gadget play.

Reporter: What made you think that play would work?

McDaniels: I wouldn't call it if I didn't think it would work.

Is this for real?

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:31 PM
I kept track of the plays on 1st and 3rd downs today for us on offense. I stopped towards the end of the 4th quarter due to rage, so a few are missed but still gives a good picture.

On 1st down, we ran the ball 17 times, passed 6 times and ran play action 4 times.

On 3rd down, we ran 3 times, passed 12 times and 0 play action.

2 of the 3rd down runs were sneaks by Orton, of which only 1 was converted. You people want to complain about Hillis? Our offense can't even get to a managable 3rd and short to even give ANY RB a shot at converting.

Our average 3rd down and distance was 7.8 yards per. We finished 4-15 on 3rd down conversions.

This is the epitome of the run run pass punt offense. I'm too lazy to go calculate our 1st down yardage average, but you already know it can't be good when we are averaging almost 8 yards to go on 3rd down.

Kyle Orton is not the type of QB that can get you 8 yards on 3rd down consistently.

Other thing to note is that we only ran 4 play action plays the entire game. So we aren't even attempting to take advantage of being stubborn and running on almost every 1st down.

McD is also putting Orton in a bad spot by calling the game this way. The defense knows when we are going to pass. I still don't know if it's McD aggorance, or if he doesn't trust the ability of Orton to open up the playbook.

In any case, it's sad seeing such a sad, predictable offense these days.

Good post.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:31 PM
That's pathetic and understandable at the same time. Wouldn't want to enrage the 32 year old egg head on his arrogance. He might berate somebody for questioning his brilliance as a playcaller.

Shanny was no different.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:32 PM
Is this for real?

Dude, I thought it was awesome. We almost lose our best player to a freak injury by passing the ball to him in space and have a LB take his legs out. It was brilliant and designed to get us three yards, not one.

Atwater His Ass
12-20-2009, 10:36 PM
This is the part of the season where McD would have been cut some slack by most people due to him being a 1st year coach etc.

However, he's made this bed with his brash decisions during the off-season.

He's managed to turn perhaps what was the best young offense in the league, into a laughing stock by both his personnel decicions and his inability to execute his "system".

Really bummed after being 6-0, thinking that hell, maybe McD can install a new aura in Denver, only to see the same late season flailing that has plauged this team for almost a decade now.

Popps
12-20-2009, 10:36 PM
Shanny was no different.

Shanahan was as arrogant and ruthless as they come.

That's why we loved him. :)

Taco John
12-20-2009, 10:36 PM
I don't think we were far from a gem at all. Neither did the rest of the NFL world. We had a damn fine young offensive team put together that looked like they were going places. You're right that they were young, immature, and still needed to work through some kinks, but you're wrong to downplay the chemistry that they showed.

We're nowhere close to what we had last offseason, despite having most all of the same players on offense outside of Cutler and the new runningbacks.

Any way you want to look at it, we've regressed on offense - whether you want to agree with the consensus that we had a young and rising offense last year or not.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 10:41 PM
That's pathetic and understandable at the same time. Wouldn't want to enrage the 32 year old egg head on his arrogance. He might berate somebody for questioning his brilliance as a playcaller.

It really wasn't any different with Shanahan. The questions often beat around the bush to what the fans really want to know. And a couple of guys, when they get confrontational, they ask the questions in such a way that they come off as jerks pushing a point rather than trying to understand a decision.

TheReverend
12-20-2009, 10:42 PM
Dude, I thought it was awesome. We almost lose our best player to a freak injury by passing the ball to him in space and have a LB take his legs out. It was brilliant and designed to get us three yards, not one.

I think Taco slid the "I wouldn't call it if I didn't think it would work" line to be funny.

Also, Brandon is our best player. Hands down. Not even close. Clady has been moderately above average since week 9.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 10:43 PM
I think Taco slid the "I wouldn't call it if I didn't think it would work" line to be funny.

Also, Brandon is our best player. Hands down. Not even close. Clady has been moderately above average since week 9.


No that was a direct quote. I wouldn't purposefully try to twist or jerk with the coach's words or meaning lest my credibility as a transcriber come into question. I'm not saying every word is perfect, but I take this stuff seriously. I don't want to mis-represent what is being said.

When I transcribe an interview, I want people to trust the content. I wouldn't jerk with it.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:47 PM
I think Taco slid the "I wouldn't call it if I didn't think it would work" line to be funny.

Also, Brandon is our best player. Hands down. Not even close. Clady has been moderately above average since week 9.

True... BMarsh is a beast. Gonna suck when they let him walk... for picks.

ZONA
12-20-2009, 10:47 PM
Dude, I thought it was awesome. We almost lose our best player to a freak injury by passing the ball to him in space and have a LB take his legs out. It was brilliant and designed to get us three yards, not one.

And to boot, they didn't even line up correctly and there was a flag called. So we almost get the best player on the team injured and it would have been for nothing on top of that. Yeah, I don't really want to see that play called every again.

Finger Roll
12-20-2009, 10:47 PM
this offense is so boring and plays it way to safe. Fail to score at least 20 points 9 times already this year.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 10:50 PM
this offense is so boring and plays it way to safe. Fail to score at least 20 points 9 times already this year.

I don't have the stamina right now to look in the history logs to see when the last time that happened in a season. I would wager it was Griese's final year. But that's just a guess.

bpc
12-20-2009, 10:52 PM
It really wasn't any different with Shanahan. The questions often beat around the bush to what the fans really want to know. And a couple of guys, when they get confrontational, they ask the questions in such a way that they come off as jerks pushing a point rather than trying to understand a decision.

While I understand what you are saying, when was this ever an issue? Maybe later in his career but he was also a 2 time super bowl winner. A little arrogance was warranted. Mike never pulled the OT screen pass FUBAR out of his hat though. That's just pathetic. Probably would have been a better play to Matt Lepsis considering he was a TE in college.

What about McD though? He runst hat **** and gets away with it and walks around the facility like he has the biggest pair of balls of them all. I think a little humility is in order for McD but that won't ever happen.

tsiguy96
12-20-2009, 10:55 PM
good god here comes the "mcdaniels set this franchise back 50 years" and "cutler was the greatest thing to ever happen to this team and mcdaniels ruined it!!!" posts again. thought we were past this ****.

wandlc
12-20-2009, 11:13 PM
50% agree.

Distressing offense. But we were FAR from a "gem" last season. Fancy fantasy numbers don't mean anything. We were sloppy with the ball, had troubles in short yardage, had troubles on 3rd down, etc. We played from behind a lot and piled up yardage numbers. Middle of the pack at scoring... so hardly a gem, and it certainly wasn't "rising."

That said, I agree... we're stuck in quicksand right now, and have to figure out a way to get this thing kick-started. Unfortunately, I think it's going to take time and talent. Those are the remedies. This is a process... and as painful as it is, it doesn't happen overnight.

Remember, McDaniels was basically given Marshall, Clady, Royal and Sheff.

Marshall has had a great season. Clady has had a great season. Sheffler has been so-so, but made big catches. Royal has made clutch catches, but his numbers could definitely be better.

Outside of that, it's a full re-do. We're reworking this entire system. It's not like he inherited the 2000 Rams.

It's as painful for me to watch as it is for you. We show flashes, though... and I think a couple of real linemen would make a dramatic impact, immediately.

Actually, I think a healthy Buck might have been enough today, alone. But, Harris and Buck would have definitely been a difference-maker.

Actually we were #3 in third down conversion % last year, 48%, hardly struggling. This year we are 36%. Yardage was more a function of the worst starting field position in the league. Short yardage issues really started with Hillis' injury as did redzone issues. With basically the same offensive talent as last year with the exception of QB and RB the offense has regressed.

Atwater His Ass
12-20-2009, 11:15 PM
With basically the same offensive talent as last year with the exception of QB and RB the offense has regressed.

And an upgrade at both positions if you ask people around here. Hilarious!

cabronco
12-20-2009, 11:30 PM
good god here comes the "mcdaniels set this franchise back 50 years" and "cutler was the greatest thing to ever happen to this team and mcdaniels ruined it!!!" posts again. thought we were past this ****.


Personally since we're in a McD rebuild process this year, I would have rather started off on one level and see an increase in performance of the team over the course of the season. That way we know were making progress.

But instead I see a team digressing when we have a shot at the playoffs. I know for a fact that we have more talent we can utilize on this team, that for whatever reason they dont incorporate into the game plan. Hell I can see it on the receivers faces, when a ball happens to come their way for a change. Royal looks unhappy, Stokley, Scheffler too its hard to see Hillis rows deep on the sidelines. How did we get so much offense production last year, to a pathetic looking offense most the time this year. A quick out pass to your young future pro bowl LT, thats not designed to run with a football, to almost get him injured. But you wont put in Hillis, get the F outta here. I still have hope for McD, because he says he believes in team concept, I just dont See it right now.

Popps
12-21-2009, 12:04 AM
With basically the same offensive talent as last year with the exception of QB and RB the offense has regressed.

You forgot to factor in taking care of the ball to your fantasy football equation.


Look, you panic-stricken folks need to understand something... I get it. The offense is struggling. Just don't mistake that for "regressing" from the disaster we've seen the past three seasons.

I'll give you the 100 yards a game we're losing through the air if you'll also take those 4 turnovers a game we were handing out.

We're a different football team. We're rebuilding. It's a process. We're 8-6 and in a position to make the playoffs in year 1 of a rebuild with two new systems.

Maybe you folks can step back and just let a tiny bit of perspective eek in.

After all, we've come off of three years of abject failure and disappointment. So, let's not play make-believe as if in we were on the doorstep of anything.

This team made large-scale changes for a reason, and thus far... progress has been good.

Sassy
12-21-2009, 12:07 AM
Just think...24 INT's...where would that get this team?

Taco John
12-21-2009, 12:09 AM
Fun house mirror perspective:


I get it. The offense is struggling. Just don't mistake that for "regressing" from the disaster we've seen the past three seasons.


And then:

We're a different football team. We're rebuilding. It's a process. We're 8-6 and in a position to make the playoffs in year 1 of a rebuild with two new systems.

We were in year two of a rebuild last season. Our offense has absolutely regressed from where we were last season. If you want me to embarass you with more of your own quotes on this subject, I'd be happy to dive back into the search engine. You were very vocal about the offense being set, and all we needed was to focus on defensive line.

of course, the wind has blown since then.

bpc
12-21-2009, 12:10 AM
You forgot to factor in taking care of the ball to your fantasy football equation.


Look, you panic-stricken folks need to understand something... I get it. The offense is struggling. Just don't mistake that for "regressing" from the disaster we've seen the past three seasons.

I'll give you the 100 yards a game we're losing through the air if you'll also take those 4 turnovers a game we were handing out.

We're a different football team. We're rebuilding. It's a process. We're 8-6 and in a position to make the playoffs in year 1 of a rebuild with two new systems.

Maybe you folks can step back and just let a tiny bit of perspective eek in.

After all, we've come off of three years of abject failure and disappointment. So, let's not play make-believe as if in we were on the doorstep of anything.

This team made large-scale changes for a reason, and thus far... progress has been good.

You mean was good? We're 2-6 against primarily non-playoff talent over the past two months. That's rather bad.

TheReverend
12-21-2009, 12:27 AM
You forgot to factor in taking care of the ball to your fantasy football equation.


Look, you panic-stricken folks need to understand something... I get it. The offense is struggling. Just don't mistake that for "regressing" from the disaster we've seen the past three seasons.

I'll give you the 100 yards a game we're losing through the air if you'll also take those 4 turnovers a game we were handing out.

Did you know that with 19 turnovers, we're on pace to finish ionly 8 behind last years total? That's .5 per game, not 4, Popps.

On average, turnovers are worth a little less than 3 points. So, lets handicap those 8 (24 points), to the offense.

Our 2009 offense has scored 275 points. Adjust that to 16 games and we have a total 315. Add the 24 point turnover handicap and we arrive at 339.

339 and handicapped GENEROUSLY is vastly inferior to the 370 points scored last year that you knocked all off-season long.

TheReverend
12-21-2009, 12:29 AM
Btw, last years ppg scoring would put us at 8th in the NFL this season.

Taco John
12-21-2009, 12:32 AM
This situation isn't helped by my buddies conspiring to send me text messages every 30 minutes to remind me that the Broncos lost due to Jamarcus Russell driving the field from the shot gun position 13 plays in a row.

What are friends for, eh? I think I hate these guys! lol

"Jamarcus Russell - Shotgun - 13 plays - sound familiar?"

Popps
12-21-2009, 12:32 AM
If you want me to embarass you with more of your own quotes on this subject, .

Oh Taco... there's no one on this forum with a more embarrassing posting history than yourself. That's been well-covered from "Gutless" to "Don't you idiots talk about Shanahan getting fired because it's not happening"... to you getting your site kicked out of Broncos headquarters and letting someone else take the rap for it.

God help you if you hadn't deleted the archives. Obviously a tactical move, as you wouldn't even be able to show your face here if we could pull that stuff.

So, let's stick to the business at hand.

Last year, the worst facet of this team was defense, without a question. There was no question that our defense was the primary area of need.

We upgraded or changed almost every position in the front seven and most in the secondary, and we're greatly improved.

I've already agreed with you that the offense is struggling. If you're not willing to give the team more than a season, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Cutler was a total disaster and you can see from his play this year that we weren't going anywhere with him. He's a ****ing mess.

So, you can pine away for the "good old days" of 8-8 football and letting teams run up 50 points a week on us.

Personally, I'm happy with how this rebuild is going, and am still rooting for this team to make the playoffs. I realize that might cause a lot of problems for you and the Widows, but I'm still hoping it happens.

Taco John
12-21-2009, 12:33 AM
That's a nightmare way to lose a game.

Popps
12-21-2009, 12:34 AM
Btw, last years ppg scoring would put us at 8th in the NFL this season.

Dude, that would be awesome!

Oh, and last year's defense this year would have us somewhere around 2-12.

Taco John
12-21-2009, 12:34 AM
Oh Taco... there's no one on this forum with a more embarrassing posting history than yourself. That's been well-covered from "Gutless" to "Don't you idiots talk about Shanahan getting fired because it's not happening"... to you getting your site kicked out of Broncos headquarters and letting someone else take the rap for it.

Who did I let take the rap for what? I know that you like to distort things, but this one is new for me. How have you completely changed history this time?

You have to do this stuff on purpose. You're either a compulsive liar, or just a guy very disconnected from the world around him.

TheReverend
12-21-2009, 12:35 AM
Oh Taco... there's no one on this forum with a more embarrassing posting history than yourself. That's been well-covered from "Gutless" to "Don't you idiots talk about Shanahan getting fired because it's not happening"... to you getting your site kicked out of Broncos headquarters and letting someone else take the rap for it.

God help you if you hadn't deleted the archives. Obviously a tactical move, as you wouldn't even be able to show your face here if we could pull that stuff.

So, let's stick to the business at hand.

Last year, the worst facet of this team was defense, without a question. There was no question that our defense was the primary area of need.

We upgraded or changed almost every position in the front seven and most in the secondary, and we're greatly improved.

I've already agreed with you that the offense is struggling. If you're not willing to give the team more than a season, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Cutler was a total disaster and you can see from his play this year that we weren't going anywhere with him. He's a ****ing mess.

So, you can pine away for the "good old days" of 8-8 football and letting teams run up 50 points a week on us.

Personally, I'm happy with how this rebuild is going, and am still rooting for this team to make the playoffs. I realize that might cause a lot of problems for you and the Widows, but I'm still hoping it happens.

Just about everyone of the added main contributors is well past 30... so for how long?

After all, didn't you just say this was a process and preach patience?

Taco John
12-21-2009, 12:36 AM
God help you if you hadn't deleted the archives.


There are five years of archives to search. Have at them. We don't need more than 5 years of archives on the server at a time though. I wish I had unlimited resources to do that, but you're right - it was a tactical move so that we could keep the forum up.

Keep the fun house mirror going though. You're a nice attraction to have around.

Popps
12-21-2009, 12:37 AM
Who did I let take the rap for what? I know that you like to distort things, but this one is new for me. How have you completely changed history this time?

You have to do this stuff on purpose. You're either a compulsive liar, or just a guy very disconnected from the world around him.

Someone posted a Gutless post in their report. (Your words, your creation, your fault.)

You patted them on the head when they posted a "sorry" thread, as if it was their fault at all.

Pretty comical.

But, you're the one making threats about old posts. So, maybe we can concentrate on right now, or... you can keep up with the silly threats.

Taco John
12-21-2009, 12:39 AM
Someone posted a Gutless post in their report. (Your words, your creation, your fault.)

You patted them on the head when they posted a "sorry" thread, as if it was their fault at all.

Pretty comical.

But, you're the one making threats about old posts. So, maybe we can concentrate on right now, or... you can keep up with the silly threats.



http://www.georgeglazer.com/archives/decarts/objects/images/funhousegeorge.JPG

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt that you're just lost in your own head, and not a compulsive liar, though the outward appearance is the same.

Popps
12-21-2009, 12:39 AM
Just about everyone of the added main contributors is well past 30... so for how long?

After all, didn't you just say this was a process and preach patience?

First off, good to see you posting again, Rev. You took a long hiatus there in the first half of the season. You've been more active the last couple of weeks.


Second, "everyone" isn't over 30... and we've drafted a pretty good handful of secondary players. I'd assume the plan is for those guys to take over jobs in the future.

New England (like Denver in the glory days) always made use of experienced vets mixed with young players. So, I'd expect that tradition to continue. Dawkins has been invaluable to this team. Do you disagree with that?

Popps
12-21-2009, 12:41 AM
[QUOTE=Taco John

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt that you're just lost in your own head, and not a compulsive liar, though the outward appearance is the same.[/QUOTE]

Sure, man. Whatever you say. But, you were the one that wanted to dig up old posts. Are we still doing that or are we back to talking football?

Or, are you just going to name-call?

We can go either way....

TheReverend
12-21-2009, 12:42 AM
First off, good to see you posting again, Rev. You took a long hiatus there in the first half of the season. You've been more active the last couple of weeks.


Second, "everyone" isn't over 30... and we've drafted a pretty good handful of secondary players. I'd assume the plan is for those guys to take over jobs in the future.

New England (like Denver in the glory days) always made use of experienced vets mixed with young players. So, I'd expect that tradition to continue. Dawkins has been invaluable to this team. Do you disagree with that?

First, no I didn't. I was here in full swing up until I moved Nov 3rd. Then I missed a few weeks. That was also our losing streak and posting felt dirty.

Second, Dawkins, Vonnie, Goodman, Hill are all over 30, and are the main FA defensive contributors. And the only secondary player that we drafted that has shown a goddamn thing is McBath.

No, I don't disagree with your final statement... you didn't actually say anything TO disagree with. And you ignored my post on TOs and scoring.

TheReverend
12-21-2009, 12:43 AM
Did you know that with 19 turnovers, we're on pace to finish ionly 8 behind last years total? That's .5 per game, not 4, Popps.

On average, turnovers are worth a little less than 3 points. So, lets handicap those 8 (24 points), to the offense.

Our 2009 offense has scored 275 points. Adjust that to 16 games and we have a total 315. Add the 24 point turnover handicap and we arrive at 339.

339 and handicapped GENEROUSLY is vastly inferior to the 370 points scored last year that you knocked all off-season long.

Requoting for better visibility for you Popps.

Popps
12-21-2009, 12:48 AM
First, no I didn't. I was here in full swing up until I moved Nov 3rd. Then I missed a few weeks. That was also our losing streak and posting felt dirty.

Second, Dawkins, Vonnie, Goodman, Hill are all over 30, and are the main FA defensive contributors. And the only secondary player that we drafted that has shown a goddamn thing is McBath.

No, I don't disagree with your final statement... you didn't actually say anything TO disagree with. And you ignored my post on TOs and scoring.

Bruton and Carter played well today, and Bruton has been excellent on special teams.

As for the turnovers, I'm not sure what you want me to say. We're on pace to finish with 8 fewer. Great! Hopefully it'll be even better than that. 8 turnovers could easily cost you 8 games in a season.

I know one thing, our current QB is generating much fewer turnovers this year than our old one, thankfully.

In any case, I'm not sure where you're headed or what the bigger picture point you're making is. If you think we're on the path to failure, that's your prerogative. I'm just not on board with that.

I do think we've got issues... and we'll see how we address them this off-season. A .500'ish finish this season can't be qualified as anything other than a success, considering the expectations and the turmoil/turnover this season. To me, brighter days are ahead.

But, you've been a glass is half-empty guy and maybe you'll be right. Time will tell. If we haven't progressed any further than this at the end of next year, I'll be calling for heads, just like you.

Blueflame
12-21-2009, 01:06 AM
I don't have the stamina right now to look in the history logs to see when the last time that happened in a season. I would wager it was Griese's final year. But that's just a guess.

We had 8 games like that (under 20 points scored) with Plummer under center in 2006.
linkage:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2006.htm

lex
12-21-2009, 01:12 AM
This situation isn't helped by my buddies conspiring to send me text messages every 30 minutes to remind me that the Broncos lost due to Jamarcus Russell driving the field from the shot gun position 13 plays in a row.

What are friends for, eh? I think I hate these guys! lol

"Jamarcus Russell - Shotgun - 13 plays - sound familiar?"

Why would you worry about silly stuff like that when you have people like Popps on here saying everything is better. You dont find Popps' spin reassuring?

TheReverend
12-21-2009, 01:22 AM
Bruton and Carter played well today, and Bruton has been excellent on special teams.

As for the turnovers, I'm not sure what you want me to say. We're on pace to finish with 8 fewer. Great! Hopefully it'll be even better than that. 8 turnovers could easily cost you 8 games in a season.

I know one thing, our current QB is generating much fewer turnovers this year than our old one, thankfully.

In any case, I'm not sure where you're headed or what the bigger picture point you're making is. If you think we're on the path to failure, that's your prerogative. I'm just not on board with that.

I do think we've got issues... and we'll see how we address them this off-season. A .500'ish finish this season can't be qualified as anything other than a success, considering the expectations and the turmoil/turnover this season. To me, brighter days are ahead.

But, you've been a glass is half-empty guy and maybe you'll be right. Time will tell. If we haven't progressed any further than this at the end of next year, I'll be calling for heads, just like you.

Yeah, you'd never criticize:

-Building a defense from the back to the front.

-Fast starts and fading down the stretch.

-Blowing a 3 game lead to lose the division.

-Losing to Oakland at home.

Oh wait... weren't those your 4 key off-season points?

Personally, no, I'm not down on this team, and McDaniels has earned the benefit of the doubt, imo. Now, whether it WAS all element of surprise due to first time coaching, time will tell.

I'm only posting in this thread like this because you've gone completely off the deep end in grand hypocritic fashion and also making absurdly false statements (bad on third down, 4 turnovers a game, etc) to try and crowbar them into whatever what the point your trying to make is (and who the hell knows what that point is).

extralife
12-21-2009, 01:38 AM
I remember when popps was going on and on about how all he could hope for was us to "get better every week" so that we "finish strong" because we're "building a TEAM"

6-0

2-6

same story

Bronco Yoda
12-21-2009, 01:57 AM
I don't even know who you are anymore Popps.

I can only assume you're just yanking peoples chain for some reason.

Atwater His Ass
12-21-2009, 04:08 AM
I remember when popps was going on and on about how all he could hope for was us to "get better every week" so that we "finish strong" because we're "building a TEAM"

6-0

2-6

same story

and when something changes next season, you'll have to listen to popps and his cronies drone on about it while completely reversing their opinions from a year ago.

why entertain facts when you have an agenda to push?

go_broncos
12-21-2009, 04:20 AM
We are playing horrible since bye week.I see very few positives in this team.
I don't see any difference between last year's team to this year.

Mcd decissions are very questionable and we are losing to the teams that we are supposed to win.

How can you lose to Charlie Frye, Jruss and Tom Cable????

Atwater His Ass
12-21-2009, 04:26 AM
We are playing horrible since bye week.I see very few positives in this team.
I don't see any difference between last year's team to this year.

Mcd decissions are very questionable and we are losing to the teams that we are supposed to win.

How can you lose to Charlie Frye, Jruss and Tom Cable????

a start would be to mix up the play calling. when a joe schmo like myself can predict 80% of the plays being called, I would bet an opposing NFL team has an even better idea of what you're doing.

this offense is so predictable is sickening. each series is usually one of the following:

1) run run pass punt

2) run screen pass punt

we don't stretch the field, we dont' call play action, we are uncreative with our runs.

denver has always been a horrible screen team but for some reason that is now a staple set of plays in this offense.

Broncoman13
12-21-2009, 06:22 AM
Yeah, you'd never criticize:

-Building a defense from the back to the front.

-Fast starts and fading down the stretch.

-Blowing a 3 game lead to lose the division.

-Losing to Oakland at home.

Oh wait... weren't those your 4 key off-season points?

Personally, no, I'm not down on this team, and McDaniels has earned the benefit of the doubt, imo. Now, whether it WAS all element of surprise due to first time coaching, time will tell.

I'm only posting in this thread like this because you've gone completely off the deep end in grand hypocritic fashion and also making absurdly false statements (bad on third down, 4 turnovers a game, etc) to try and crowbar them into whatever what the point your trying to make is (and who the hell knows what that point is).


Preach on REV

fontaine
12-21-2009, 07:00 AM
Here's a question that should have been asked.

With the season on the line why was the playcalling so predictable in the run game with the same up the middle run call?

And why, with the season on the line did you wait until the last 25 seconds to call deeper pass plays?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-21-2009, 07:06 AM
lest my credibility ... come into question.

Yeah... wouldn't want that... Hilarious!

Smiling Assassin27
12-21-2009, 07:24 AM
What I saw was a team that lacked passion. If you give away the intangibles in an NFL game, you jeopardize your chance to win, period. A team that is in contention for a playoff spot should NEVER come out flat, and that's exactly what we did from the coach down to the punter. We deserved what we got when we handed over the passion.

This is what we saw last year under shanahan--inexplicable and unacceptable. This defense was just bad enough to lose, the offense was--you guessed it--just bad enough to lose, and special teams were just bad enough to lose. Coaching--bad enough to lose. WTF was Clady doing catching passes? This tells me about the mindset of this team when they came out. Teams like the Ravens forego the tricks and come out with the intention of kicking you in the nugs and taking your lunch money. This team lacks that character trait currently, including what I've seen of the coach.

Philly wants to catch Minnesota, so they will be prepared to steamroll us. With McCoy back there, it could be a long day for us unless we sack up in the run game. Playoff game #1 is this Sunday in Philly, and though it pains me to say it, I think a game like this is where we will miss cutler. He went into the Meadowlands last year in bad weather and flung it all over. Orton will not be given the chance to do that.

Let's go. What are we made of? We're about to find out.

WolfpackGuy
12-21-2009, 07:28 AM
And why, with the season on the line did you wait until the last 25 seconds to call deeper pass plays?

They were hoping for a tipped pass to Stokley to win it.

oubronco
12-21-2009, 07:37 AM
Having our offense fall off this much really distresses me. We had one of the rising gem offenses in the game, and to fall off this much is tough to take. Scheffler, Royal, and Stokley (not to mention Hillis, or the entire offensive line) are nowhere near what they were last season. It's hard for me to believe that their talent just evaporated. How is it that a quarterback "as bad as Jay Cutler is" was able to get so much out of these guys, and we can't put together anything with them now?

Orton

colonelbeef
12-21-2009, 07:39 AM
Good stuff. All very logical.

Four red-zone trips without TDs and you know that **** is going to come back to bite you.

He wants to run the ball and control the clock. I like the kind of team we're building, but we've got to get better up front.

Yeah, he needs to change the Broncos into a team that can run the ball and control the clock, because that hasn't been the team identity for the past 15 ****ing years.

Again, why drop the ZBS altogether when it worked so well in the past? Idiocy.

Rohirrim
12-21-2009, 07:40 AM
I can only say what Shanahan said for ten years: We're only a couple of pieces away...





Only this time, it's true. ;D

Cito Pelon
12-21-2009, 07:51 AM
Just think...24 INT's...where would that get this team?

That's always a good point, and hard to refute.

BTW, thanks for the transcript TJ.

colonelbeef
12-21-2009, 07:53 AM
Fun house mirror perspective:





And then:



We were in year two of a rebuild last season. Our offense has absolutely regressed from where we were last season. If you want me to embarass you with more of your own quotes on this subject, I'd be happy to dive back into the search engine. You were very vocal about the offense being set, and all we needed was to focus on defensive line.

of course, the wind has blown since then.

haha. Poops has one objective and one objective only- to deflect blame away from Orton and McDaniels, because that would force him to once again change his opinion, even though clearly he is on the wrong side of the argument.

The offense was set. McDaniels ****ed it all up, and now the offense sucks. It's really as simple as that.

WolfpackGuy
12-21-2009, 07:56 AM
No way in hell would Jayby have thrown all those INT's with Denver's cast and system.

Too bad he was so asshurt over the whole Cassel thing.

Cito Pelon
12-21-2009, 08:01 AM
Did you know that with 19 turnovers, we're on pace to finish ionly 8 behind last years total? That's .5 per game, not 4, Popps.

On average, turnovers are worth a little less than 3 points. So, lets handicap those 8 (24 points), to the offense.

Our 2009 offense has scored 275 points. Adjust that to 16 games and we have a total 315. Add the 24 point turnover handicap and we arrive at 339.

339 and handicapped GENEROUSLY is vastly inferior to the 370 points scored last year that you knocked all off-season long.

That's a good point, BUT . . .

10 of the TO's are from fumbles lost. The INT's hurt worse because of the return yards.

Also, you neglect to include the possible points scored by the offense if the turnovers did not occur.

Stats, they're manipulable, eh? You did your best to manipulate them. As we all do . . . . .

tsiguy96
12-21-2009, 08:03 AM
the mcd haters are back and in full force

and they have extended their hate 10x to everyone who has ever supported mcd. i guess you guys just KNEW he was going to lose games...eventually..

Popps
12-21-2009, 08:09 AM
Yeah, you'd never criticize:

-Building a defense from the back to the front.
.

We replaced every position in the front seven, including drafting a first round DE/OLB and signing several ends/tackles/LBs.

They've also been effective, unlike the "answer" to our problems last season, Boss Bailey and Marlon McCree.



-Losing to Oakland at home.
.


Sucks. Couldn't agree more.


-Fast starts and fading down the stretch.
.


The season's over? I must have missed that. We beat KC and the Giants handily, lost to a great Indy team and were side-swiped by the Raiders, which I'm as pissed about as anyone.


Personally, no, I'm not down on this team, and McDaniels has earned the benefit of the doubt, imo. .

Great, we agree!



I'm only posting in this thread like this because you've gone completely off the deep

If supporting your team who has overachieved in the first year of a rebuild is "going off the deep end," then guilty as charged.

I'm not going to panic at this stage, and if you're comparing a 3rd year "franchise" QB and a 14 year coach to a first-year coach with almost all new personnel... maybe I'm not the one that needs to reexamine my "point."

Smiling Assassin27
12-21-2009, 08:11 AM
the mcd haters are back and in full force

and they have extended their hate 10x to everyone who has ever supported mcd. i guess you guys just KNEW he was going to lose games...eventually..

Just make sure you differentiate between 'haters' and those who rightly criticize the coaching in a horrific loss. :thumbsup:

Popps
12-21-2009, 08:12 AM
haha. Poops has one objective and one objective only- to deflect blame away from Orton and McDaniels.

Dude, I don't care about Orton. He's not a point of contention for me. You're the one jerking off to him 24/7. I don't think he's the prime issue.

As for McDaniels, he deserves some criticism and some credit... just like any coach during a season.

I'm simply willing to allow his staff time to build the team properly before jumping off a bridge like all of you losers did during the offseason.

Again, why do you need my permission to be a fair-weather fan? Quit the team. Troll the board. Do what you need to do. Why do you need my validation so badly?

Broncomutt
12-21-2009, 08:20 AM
It's not like last years offense was some juggernaut. Last years offense shot itself in the foot plenty, and settled for alot of FGs also.

However, McDaniels is on the cusp of being the one and only coach in NFL history to start 6-0 and still not make the playoffs. A towering achievment of failure.

:egbgb::egbgb::egbgb::egbgb::egbgb::egbgb:

You thought people hated you for letting Cutler go? Just wait until you humiliate the team, the city and the fanbase for the second time in as many years.

oubronco
12-21-2009, 08:24 AM
Ugh

Taco John
12-21-2009, 08:44 AM
the mcd haters are back and in full force

and they have extended their hate 10x to everyone who has ever supported mcd. i guess you guys just KNEW he was going to lose games...eventually..

I don't think I qualify as a McD hater. But I do hate losing to the Raiders at home. And McD just did that. And it was actually pretty embarassing the way we lost. They just yelled on the sidelines "HEY, ANYBODY WANT TO GO IN AT QB?" Jamarcus was just lucky that he beat the media relations guy to the huddle.

Wow. 13 shotgun passes in a row from Jamarcus Russell. That just isn't right. That one is going to stick in my craw for a long time.

It doesn't mean that Josh cant win a Superbowl. My faith in that idea is shaken, but not destroyed. The reason why, is because I believe that next week, the team will come out to play strong against the Eagles. And that's something.

Cito Pelon
12-21-2009, 08:45 AM
First, no I didn't. I was here in full swing up until I moved Nov 3rd. Then I missed a few weeks. That was also our losing streak and posting felt dirty.

Second, Dawkins, Vonnie, Goodman, Hill are all over 30, and are the main FA defensive contributors. And the only secondary player that we drafted that has shown a goddamn thing is McBath.

No, I don't disagree with your final statement... you didn't actually say anything TO disagree with. And you ignored my post on TOs and scoring.

Rev, didn't you say Dawkins was over the hill garbage at the signing?

If I were you I wouldn't get on Popps too much. You did take quite an extended hiatus there despite your move. And you were so far off base during the offseason with the doom and gloom attitude. 3-13 was it?

You present yourself as an expert about everything, and being articulate it almost seems plausible at times.

You're entertaining and I enjoy your wit, but maybe you want to keep your head down a little bit since your numerous opinions are hit and miss.

go_broncos
12-21-2009, 08:47 AM
I hated shanny when we always struggle during NOV/DEC..
I will continue to hate Mcd if the tradition continues.

It is really frustrating that we will not be in playoff's after starting 6-0

oubronco
12-21-2009, 08:50 AM
I don't think I qualify as a McD hater. But I do hate losing to the Raiders at home. And McD just did that. And it was actually pretty embarassing the way we lost. They just yelled on the sidelines "HEY, ANYBODY WANT TO GO IN AT QB?" Jamarcus was just lucky that he beat the media relations guy to the huddle.

Wow. 13 shotgun passes in a row from Jamarcus Russell. That just isn't right. That one is going to stick in my craw for a long time.

It doesn't mean that Josh cant win a Superbowl. My faith in that idea is shaken, but not destroyed. The reason why, is because I believe that next week, the team will come out to play strong against the Eagles. And that's something.

the worst part of it is he outperformed Orton

oubronco
12-21-2009, 08:51 AM
I hated shanny when we always struggle during NOV/DEC..
I will continue to hate Mcd if the tradition continues.

It is really frustrating that we will not be in playoff's after starting 6-0

Don't jump ship just yet grasshopper

Taco John
12-21-2009, 08:57 AM
Rev, didn't you say Dawkins was over the hill garbage at the signing?

If I were you I wouldn't get on Popps too much. You did take quite an extended hiatus there despite your move. And you were so far off base during the offseason with the doom and gloom attitude. 3-13 was it?

You present yourself as an expert about everything, and being articulate it almost seems plausible at times.

You're entertaining and I enjoy your wit, but maybe you want to keep your head down a little bit since your numerous opinions are hit and miss.


Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah...

If everybody took this advice, there'd be no need for message boards. Thankfully, though, everybody's opinions are hit and miss, and thus the need for message board validation will continue to exist. :egbgb:

TheReverend
12-21-2009, 09:06 AM
Rev, didn't you say Dawkins was over the hill garbage at the signing?

If I were you I wouldn't get on Popps too much. You did take quite an extended hiatus there despite your move. And you were so far off base during the offseason with the doom and gloom attitude. 3-13 was it?

You present yourself as an expert about everything, and being articulate it almost seems plausible at times.

You're entertaining and I enjoy your wit, but maybe you want to keep your head down a little bit since your numerous opinions are hit and miss.

Yup, I said he wouldn't be worth the time he spends on the field when they're pulling him from the D in passing downs. Nolan's done a magnificient job minimizing his coverage liability and maximizing his strengths. I've admitted that multiple times here, and yeah, I've even mentioned how they've exceeded all my expectations even multiple times last night.

Rohirrim
12-21-2009, 09:11 AM
Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah...

If everybody took this advice, there'd be no need for message boards. Thankfully, though, everybody's opinions are hit and miss, and thus the need for message board validation will continue to exist. :egbgb:

Hit and miss? Moi? I don't think so. When have I ever been wrong? :wiggle:

Cito Pelon
12-21-2009, 09:18 AM
Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah...

If everybody took this advice, there'd be no need for message boards. Thankfully, though, everybody's opinions are hit and miss, and thus the need for message board validation will continue to exist. :egbgb:

Well, I admire/???/:rofl: some of you guys for your numerous and fearless predictions/opinions. I'm a little more cautious and tend to go with more sure winners.

Carry on . . . .

TheDave
12-21-2009, 09:24 AM
Well, I admire/???/:rofl: some of you guys for your numerous and fearless predictions/opinions. I'm a little more cautious and tend to go with more sure winners.

Carry on . . . .

Yeah, like that "sure winner" that Brandstater should start over Orton... Hilarious!

Cito Pelon
12-21-2009, 09:26 AM
Yup, I said he wouldn't be worth the time he spends on the field when they're pulling him from the D in passing downs. Nolan's done a magnificient job minimizing his coverage liability and maximizing his strengths. I've admitted that multiple times here, and yeah, I've even mentioned how they've exceeded all my expectations even multiple times last night.

You're a slick poster. You have a rare ability to just sliiiide right through, leaving wreckage behind you and coming out clean on the other side.

tsiguy96
12-21-2009, 09:36 AM
It's not like last years offense was some juggernaut. Last years offense shot itself in the foot plenty, and settled for alot of FGs also.

However, McDaniels is on the cusp of being the one and only coach in NFL history to start 6-0 and still not make the playoffs. A towering achievment of failure.

:egbgb::egbgb::egbgb::egbgb::egbgb::egbgb:

You thought people hated you for letting Cutler go? Just wait until you humiliate the team, the city and the fanbase for the second time in as many years.

have you seen cutler play this year? there was no humiliation in letting him go at all, that was a masterful piece of player evaluation and FO work.

Cito Pelon
12-21-2009, 09:36 AM
Yeah, like that "sure winner" that Brandstater should start over Orton... Hilarious!

Haha, very funny. I'm sure I vacillated regarding that, as in using words like "tending", "perhaps".

As I said, you guys that make absolutes I enjoy your takes and your wit. Your personalities tend to overwhelm me, perhaps.

tsiguy96
12-21-2009, 09:39 AM
this message board is getting ridiculous. all it is is half of you screaming (again) that mcdaniels destroyed this franchise and hes an awful coach, and the other half trying to use logic to say that while his gameplans and coaching decisions ahvent been spectacular, hes doing a good job overall and (should) get better.

rastaman
12-21-2009, 09:49 AM
While I understand what you are saying, when was this ever an issue? Maybe later in his career but he was also a 2 time super bowl winner. A little arrogance was warranted. Mike never pulled the OT screen pass FUBAR out of his hat though. That's just pathetic. Probably would have been a better play to Matt Lepsis considering he was a TE in college.

What about McD though? He runst hat **** and gets away with it and walks around the facility like he has the biggest pair of balls of them all. I think a little humility is in order for McD but that won't ever happen.

The only way to bring McD back down to earth are for the players to give hime a "Blanket Party" at the end of season!

This way at the at draft time and at the start of training camp, McD will realize "IT AIN'T ABOUT HIM"!

rastaman
12-21-2009, 09:53 AM
this message board is getting ridiculous. all it is is half of you screaming (again) that mcdaniels destroyed this franchise and hes an awful coach, and the other half trying to use logic to say that while his gameplans and coaching decisions ahvent been spectacular, hes doing a good job overall and (should) get better.

You can best believe every Bronco forum around the country are behaving this way. Right now, McD's Broncos are on pace to duplicate the last 3 seasons that Shanny had. :sunshine:

It has been Nolan's defense that has saved McD's comatose offense all season. McD absolutely sucks at play calling.

yavoon
12-21-2009, 10:28 AM
Why, the answer would have been the same... It's not the running back, it's the whole team doing their jobs.

such an assinine defense.

tsiguy96
12-21-2009, 12:43 PM
You can best believe every Bronco forum around the country are behaving this way. Right now, McD's Broncos are on pace to duplicate the last 3 seasons that Shanny had. :sunshine:

It has been Nolan's defense that has saved McD's comatose offense all season. McD absolutely sucks at play calling.

mcd is as big a part ofthe defense as nolan, as much as you want to deny it. the playcalling is getting pathetic.

TheReverend
12-21-2009, 12:48 PM
You're a slick poster. You have a rare ability to just sliiiide right through, leaving wreckage behind you and coming out clean on the other side.

Because of 3 things:

1. I admit when I'm wrong.
2. I hit way more than I miss.
3. I don't care at all what other people think of me.

Cito Pelon
12-21-2009, 01:06 PM
Because of 3 things:

1. I admit when I'm wrong.
2. I hit way more than I miss.
3. I don't care at all what other people think of me.

1. True.
2. True, but when you miss, boy you're waaaaay outside.
3. See # 2.

gyldenlove
12-21-2009, 01:19 PM
It is funny how some people have become pseunonymous with the pro-Mcdaniels anti-Cutler side and vice versa, but it is beginning to wear thin.

Frankly I think we can all agree that Mcdaniels has done some good things and some less good things and that the Cutler trade in hindsight looks pretty good.

That doesn't absolve people from being wrong and it doesn't make anyones oppinion better than others, unfortunately oppinions are like right thumbs, almost every has got one, but unfortunately some people tend to jam theirs up the ass.

Mcdaniels hasn't been outcoached often this year, to my mind only really twice, the Baltimore game and the Raiders game. In both games we came off looking like one trick ponies with no backup plan and not enough talent to compensate for the lack of a good gameplan.

I guess there is some symmetry here, last time we lost at home to an AFC West opponent we played a team from the NFC East and thouroughly kicked some ass, lets hope history repeats itself in that respect. We are not out, even though the effort yesterday was circling the drain.

orangenblue
12-21-2009, 01:23 PM
When we were winning Orton was throwing the football. Now were running 18 times on first down against a brickwall defensive line.

Rabb
12-21-2009, 01:31 PM
great post gyldenlove (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=5365)

Cito Pelon
12-21-2009, 01:55 PM
It is funny how some people have become pseunonymous with the pro-Mcdaniels anti-Cutler side and vice versa, but it is beginning to wear thin.

Frankly I think we can all agree that Mcdaniels has done some good things and some less good things and that the Cutler trade in hindsight looks pretty good.

That doesn't absolve people from being wrong and it doesn't make anyones oppinion better than others, unfortunately oppinions are like right thumbs, almost every has got one, but unfortunately some people tend to jam theirs up the ass.

Mcdaniels hasn't been outcoached often this year, to my mind only really twice, the Baltimore game and the Raiders game. In both games we came off looking like one trick ponies with no backup plan and not enough talent to compensate for the lack of a good gameplan.

I guess there is some symmetry here, last time we lost at home to an AFC West opponent we played a team from the NFC East and thouroughly kicked some ass, lets hope history repeats itself in that respect. We are not out, even though the effort yesterday was circling the drain.

Thing is, it's tough to agree with you because of your stance in the offseason. You were totally negative. Totally down on anything Bronco. Repping people that were insulting anything Bronco. There will be repurcussions for that.

TonyR
12-21-2009, 01:56 PM
great post gyldenlove (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=5365)

Agree, that was a solid post.

McD has two weeks to shut up the haters or we're going to have to listen to them squawk for months. Of course this season is going to end in a loss one way or another anyway so probably no avoiding it.

One piece of "good news": we lost at home to the Raiders less decisively this year than last, right? 31-10 last year, 20-19 this year? Come on, you either find a way to laugh about it or you cry about it.

gyldenlove
12-21-2009, 02:21 PM
Thing is, it's tough to agree with you because of your stance in the offseason. You were totally negative. Totally down on anything Bronco. Repping people that were insulting anything Bronco. There will be repurcussions for that.

Things I liked in the offseason:

Mcdaniels hiring
Signing Dawkins
Firing Shanahan
Signing Ron Fields
Adding Mike Nolan
Signing Jabar Gaffney
Drafting Moreno, Ayers, Mcbath and Olsen

Things I didn't like, that I was wrong about:

Trading Cutler
Signing Buckhalter
Signing Goodman
Drafting Bruton

Things I didn't like:

Trading for Al Smith
Trading for Quinn
The Goodman/Xanders situation
Promoting Xanders


I didn't like the fervent Mcdanielsism, it was frankly nausiating to hear people ready to accept anything without thought, without criticism and without wanting results.
Frankly this board was rife with double standards, people were willing to crown their asses without any results, the same people who would say we shouldn't criticize Mcdaniels or anything he did because we should wait and see results were the same people who wouldn't wait for Mcdaniels to produce results before coronating him, the people who were celebrating the trade for Al Smith as a stroke of genious before Al Smith ever had an opportunity to miss a tackle.

I will freely admit I was wrong about some of the things I was unhappy about, but my 9-7 season prediction is starting to look pretty good.

Cito Pelon
12-21-2009, 02:51 PM
Things I liked in the offseason:

Mcdaniels hiring
Signing Dawkins
Firing Shanahan
Signing Ron Fields
Adding Mike Nolan
Signing Jabar Gaffney
Drafting Moreno, Ayers, Mcbath and Olsen

Things I didn't like, that I was wrong about:

Trading Cutler
Signing Buckhalter
Signing Goodman
Drafting Bruton

Things I didn't like:

Trading for Al Smith
Trading for Quinn
The Goodman/Xanders situation
Promoting Xanders


I didn't like the fervent Mcdanielsism, it was frankly nausiating to hear people ready to accept anything without thought, without criticism and without wanting results.
Frankly this board was rife with double standards, people were willing to crown their asses without any results, the same people who would say we shouldn't criticize Mcdaniels or anything he did because we should wait and see results were the same people who wouldn't wait for Mcdaniels to produce results before coronating him, the people who were celebrating the trade for Al Smith as a stroke of genious before Al Smith ever had an opportunity to miss a tackle.

I will freely admit I was wrong about some of the things I was unhappy about, but my 9-7 season prediction is starting to look pretty good.

You were real negative, gylden, you know it and I know it, you were negative galore, every opportunity you had you jumped on the Bronco-bashing bandwagon.

Your 9-7 prediction was great, but it didn't jive with your gleeful harmonizing with the super-downers. That's what irritates a lot of us - the gleeful bagging on the Broncs during the offseason like we might be the Chiefs.

Your gonna carry that baggage for a long time. Some of us have loooooong memories.

wandlc
12-21-2009, 09:22 PM
You forgot to factor in taking care of the ball to your fantasy football equation.


Look, you panic-stricken folks need to understand something... I get it. The offense is struggling. Just don't mistake that for "regressing" from the disaster we've seen the past three seasons.

I'll give you the 100 yards a game we're losing through the air if you'll also take those 4 turnovers a game we were handing out.

We're a different football team. We're rebuilding. It's a process. We're 8-6 and in a position to make the playoffs in year 1 of a rebuild with two new systems.

Maybe you folks can step back and just let a tiny bit of perspective eek in.

After all, we've come off of three years of abject failure and disappointment. So, let's not play make-believe as if in we were on the doorstep of anything.

This team made large-scale changes for a reason, and thus far... progress has been good.

More revisionist history from Popps

Popps
12-21-2009, 09:32 PM
More revisionist history from Popps

It obviously wasn't literal. We were sloppy with the ball last season. That's a fact.

Nothing to "revise."

Taco John
12-21-2009, 09:36 PM
Look, you panic-stricken folks need to understand something... I get it. The offense is struggling. Just don't mistake that for "regressing" from the disaster we've seen the past three seasons.


How could it be anything but a regression. Last offseason, it was universally said around here - including by you - that we needed to keep our offense where it is, and focus on defense and we'd have a Superbowl calibre team. What is it now? Now we need an offensive line - something that has rarely been a problem in Denver, especially where the running game was concerned. Cutler was one of the least sacked quarterbacks last year. McDaniels arrives, and our offensive line can't open a hole or provide a block to save a game from Oakland at home.

And Popps line: "just don't mistake that for regressing."

In the fun house mirror view of things, the offense that we just needed to plug a defense onto is now called "a disaster from the past three seasons."

~Crash~
12-21-2009, 09:36 PM
I don't think we were far from a gem at all. Neither did the rest of the NFL world. We had a damn fine young offensive team put together that looked like they were going places. You're right that they were young, immature, and still needed to work through some kinks, but you're wrong to downplay the chemistry that they showed.

We're nowhere close to what we had last offseason, despite having most all of the same players on offense outside of Cutler and the new runningbacks.

Any way you want to look at it, we've regressed on offense - whether you want to agree with the consensus that we had a young and rising offense last year or not.

watch out taco meck77 will call you an idiot...

Taco John
12-21-2009, 09:37 PM
watch out taco meck77 will call you an idiot...

He calls me much worse than that.

Popps
12-21-2009, 09:48 PM
And Popps line: "just don't mistake that for regressing."
"

Our offense didn't win us **** last year. We gave the ball away on a regular basis, were mediocre at scoring and couldn't run the ball when we needed to.

We played from behind on a regular basis. So, we put up yardage stats. Great!

"Regression" isn't the term I'd use. You're free to use it, and I understand why you do. You were so woefully off-base with everything you said for the last year, you're just scratching and clawing for something to be "right" about.

As people have pointed out, it's odd that you're so obsessed with being right, when you're just so regularly wrong.

Our offense is rebuilding. We're struggling in that process. Call it regression if it helps your self-esteem.

To me, regression implies success turned to failure, and this doesn't fit that bill at all. At least not yet.

It's like walking into a dilapidated house you're revamping half way through the job and calling it "regression." It's just not accurate terminology, to me.

Call it what you want, though. Make yourself feel better, bro.

Popps
12-21-2009, 09:50 PM
Oh, and Taco.. if we were starting the 2008 (last year) season over again... right now... I'd absolutely start with the defense. No question. That hasn't changed. Not sure why that would be confusing.

No matter what our offense was last season, it was clearly better than the **** defense.

Only thing is, I wouldn't sign Boss Bailey and Marlon McCree as the "solution" to the worst defense in the league.

Taco John
12-21-2009, 09:58 PM
As people have pointed out, it's odd that you're so obsessed with being right, when you're just so regularly wrong.


Haha! You say very wierd things.

Er, or should I say "as people have pointed out," you say very wierd things.

Taco John
12-21-2009, 10:00 PM
It's funny that you think we have to tip toe around your fun house definition of the word "regression."

Popps
12-21-2009, 10:02 PM
Haha! You say very wierd things.

Er, or should I say "as people have pointed out," you say very wierd things.



Just didn't want to take credit for someone else's line.

(Odd that Taco is so obsessed with being right, when he's consistently so wrong.)


Funny line, but I can't take credit.

Anyway, resume bashing...

Taco John
12-21-2009, 10:03 PM
Just didn't want to take credit for someone else's line.

(Odd that Taco is so obsessed with being right, when he's consistently so wrong.)


Funny line, but I can't take credit.

Anyway, resume bashing...


Let me guess... Meck77 right? Big suprise there.

Popps
12-21-2009, 10:03 PM
It's funny that you think we have to tip toe around your fun house definition of the word "regression."

Quite the contrary. If you want to call it something it's not so you feel better about your history of failed predictions and analysis, feel free. I'm not stopping you.

But, it won't bring Griese, Shanahan or Cutler back, brother.


Sorry.

Feel free to stay miserably mired in the past, though. Good attitude for a Broncos board owner to have.

Taco John
12-21-2009, 10:07 PM
I don't have a need to feel better about my history of predictions and analysis. I'm ok with what I've got.

I'm not mired in the past. I'm currently mired in the present Oakland Raiders loss at home, and the fact that we're losing these kinds of games with our starters, and not on our 15th runningback and whoever we could find at the Sprint store.