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Popps
12-20-2009, 04:39 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

Bob's your Information Minister
12-20-2009, 04:40 PM
QB is the answer.

The Denver Broncos are just running in place until they get a real quarterback.

rovolution
12-20-2009, 04:41 PM
Polumbus has proved he is barely NFL backup material.

The guy got beat by any Raider who lined up against him.

Hochstein is what he is...a backup...


We need more depth at OT and a big, powerful OG in the offseason.

go_broncos
12-20-2009, 04:41 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

How do you know if we don't give it to Hillis..

Popps
12-20-2009, 04:41 PM
QB is the answer.

The Denver Broncos are just running in place until they get a real quarterback.

Boob, it's big-boy football talk, now. You run along.

eddie mac
12-20-2009, 04:42 PM
Polumbus had his worst game in a Bronco uniform today, just plain horrible, as for the run blocking, it was non-existent in the 2nd half.

**** drafting NT next year or even any DL in the first 3 rounds, we need at least 2 internal linemen and not project muther****ers, high picks.

frerottenextelway
12-20-2009, 04:42 PM
"it's got nothing to do with the back."

Yeah, the line needs to do better, but you're in denial dude. How many tackles have Moreno broke this year? Any?

lex
12-20-2009, 04:43 PM
I agree that we need to address the interior OLine, Ive been saying this for a while, but we got more out of the same interior OLine last year.

broncogary
12-20-2009, 04:44 PM
Polumbus has proved he is barely NFL backup material.

The guy got beat by any Raider who lined up against him.

Hochstein is what he is...a backup...


We need more depth at OT and a big, powerful OG in the offseason.

I would cut Polumbus tonight. He isn't backup material. And our D-line was consistently overpowered, too.

Popps
12-20-2009, 04:45 PM
How do you know if we don't give it to Hillis..

Here's the thing, even if Hillis DID perform better than our other guys, and I somewhat doubt he would... but even if he DID, he'd be battling 4 defenders behind the LOS on every single play, and absolutely no push up front.

We just can't open running lanes at all.

So, the dopes around here claiming Hillis is the "difference-maker" just don't get the bigger picture. Hillis can't levitate. Hence, he's not going to be able to get by 4 defenders in the back-field on every play.

We just aren't pushing teams forward. It's that simple.

meangene
12-20-2009, 04:46 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

Yep, it is costing us one game after another. It affects not only the offensive effectiveness but limits the play-calling. Eventually our defense wears down because we can't possess the ball. First and goal from the two and we put the game away with a TD and are looking playoffs. Now, all we will hear about is how we choked down the stretch once again. Even the freakin Cowboys pulled out a big December win! I don't want to hear about Orton being the problem - Peyton Manning would have problems behind our line!

SportinOne
12-20-2009, 04:47 PM
Orton sucks. Please stop with the rationalization.

Rohirrim
12-20-2009, 04:48 PM
Yep. It's the Oline. Not much you can do about it now. I can't imagine Josh won't be calling up Logan Mankins when this season ends. We just ain't got the beef up front. The Raiders defensive line manhandled them the whole game.

lostknight
12-20-2009, 04:49 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.


Umm Sorry. This game was lost because McDaniel's was so predictable my 5 yr old son figured out exactly when runs where coming. It was lost when we threw twice to Lamont Jordan. It was lost with the complete inability to use Eddie Royal effectively. It was lost with the complete lack of a ZBS scheme and lateral running. It was lost when you only used your receiving tight end twice against a team that plays almost completely man. And it was lost with Peyton Hillis on the sideline.

The ability to turn one of the best lines in Football last year into one of the worst? Just gravy.

loborugger
12-20-2009, 04:49 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

4 FGs, 1 TD. What a mess.

I agree, a great O line would fix a lot of the issues we have right now. The running game would improve, the passing game would improve... everything just gets better.

I wont argue that we have great talent at QB or RB; however, I think its a more expensive gamble to go out and acquire a big time QB or RB. Getting better on the O line will be cheaper and, IMHO, less of a risk.

That and the play calling has gotta change. Its getting pretty predictable. But, back to the O line... if you get better protection and better running lanes and *viola* the playbook opens up.

Finger Roll
12-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Orton sucks. Please stop with the rationalization.

Agree. It all starts with him. Teams don't respect the passing game and overwelm the Offensive line because the put more men in the box.

lex
12-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Yep, it is costing us one game after another. It affects not only the offensive effectiveness but limits the play-calling. Eventually our defense wears down because we can't possess the ball. First and goal from the two and we put the game away with a TD and are looking playoffs. Now, all we will hear about is how we choked down the stretch once again. Even the freakin Cowboys pulled out a big December win! I don't want to hear about Orton being the problem - Peyton Manning would have problems behind our line!

One thing you can do to keep running lanes open is use the TE, since its usually a LB that covers the TE. How often have they tried to integrate the TE into the offense?

colonelbeef
12-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Hahahah.

Popps, you understand absolutely nothing about football, and will go to any length to rationalize abject failure.

Orton is the problem. Last year this same OL let up the least amount of sacks in team history and allowed for plenty of yards and tds.

Same OL. Different QB. Terrible offense.

Wake up dude. Jesus.

strafen
12-20-2009, 04:50 PM
Wow, it didn't take long for the Moreno apologists to bail him out, huh?Blaming the offensive line?
Getting stuffed over and over in 3rd downs and refuse to play the best and biggest back in Hillis for those situations is the Oline's fault?
Cry me a facking river!

bpc
12-20-2009, 04:50 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.


Oh man, are you sure about that? Looked to me like the QB and coaches f'd things up royally just fine by themselves. OL was humming along fine, just last season. Led the NFL in least amount of sacks and what, a HB committee that featured 7 or 8 players was still respectable?

I mean, as a QB you clearly see an OT get beat yet you can't step up in the pocket or get rid of the ball? Instead you get sacked and we're forced to use a timeout? How ****ing crappy is Kyle Orton? Or how about when we have the Raiders on the ropes early we turn and hand the ball to seldom used Lamont Jordan, just to make a point to the fans and the media, that you can take your Peyton Hillis thoughts and shove it. Won't nobody be telling Josh McArrogant how to run his offense and who to play. To put a cherry on that, instead of handing off on 3rd and short, we'll just QB sneak it each time. That won't tip the defense off eventually. ANYTHING TO SHOW IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!!!!

Or how about showing the NFL how smart I am.... we have one of the top producing WR's in the league this year but instead of going to him early in the redzone, we'll FLIP A ****ING screen pass to our franchise left tackle. I mean, what's the worst thing that could happen? He fumbles the ball he's never carried before? Gets hit on the kneecap and tears a ligament? We don't get a TD?

McArrogant is one of the most miserable people in the NFL. Dude thinks he has a 20 inch cock calling plays, so much so that Peyton Hillis can shove it, along with the fans that want him to play in obvious situations... and he'll waste redzone passes and throw them to his franchise LT, instead of his WR because he just thinks his playcalling is THAT GOOD!

This arrogance is a theme. Say what you want about Cutler not being here, having a terrible year in Chicago or whatever, but the guy made Eddie Royal relevant. Josh McDaniels offense has been him IRRELEVANT. The whole reason the Cutler situation didn't work out is because Jay asked him to say that he was committed to him in the future and in ARROGANT fashion, refused to do so, just like he's refusing to play Hillis because he won't be having ANYBODY tell him how to do anything and he's willing to LOSE because of it.

Mc****ing piece of arrogant trash. This playoff loss is on his head. For the life of me, I have a hard time realizing how you can win 6-0 straight and potentially miss the playoffs losing to terrible teams in the process. Well, when you have an agenda, and ARROGANCE larger than most coaches in the game today, you call the game just as you see fit and damn everybody else.

meangene
12-20-2009, 04:51 PM
Orton sucks. Please stop with the rationalization.

The guy has either got to get rid of the ball in an instant or run for his life on every play. That's reality, not rationalization. It is amazing he has not turned the ball over more than he has. He doesn't have time for receivers to GET down the field, never mind time for them to get open and get the ball off before getting sacked.

Paladin
12-20-2009, 04:51 PM
If a team has a solid Oline and a good D line and a good middle backer, they can be competitive no matter who the RB or QB is. I would hope that the draft and FA would be geared towrds getting Oline and Dline help, almost exclusively.

Frankly, I hope Shanahan takes the Oline coaches with him. It is time to bring in real new blood.....

Popps
12-20-2009, 04:52 PM
Mc****ing piece of arrogant trash. .

Always great analysis from you, Chris.

Just like your guarantees of Cutler's greatness in Chicago.

Catch the game today, buddy?


In any case, our o-line isn't getting any push. You can like that, ignore it, don't like it... I don't care. But, we're getting pushed back on every running play.

snowspot66
12-20-2009, 04:53 PM
Agree. It all starts with him. Teams don't respect the passing game and overwelm the Offensive line because the put more men in the box.

Bull****. Our run blocking has been bad for the past few years. Our guys aren't big enough. And the guys in the middle are old and only getting older.

You want to see us draft a big stud QB? Great. If it works out we'll be the Green Bay Packers. A team that can't block for **** and gets their stud QB killed week after week and are never anything more than a wild card threat.

rovolution
12-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Hahahah.

Popps, you understand absolutely nothing about football, and will go to any length to rationalize abject failure.

Orton is the problem. Last year this same OL let up the least amount of sacks in team history and allowed for plenty of yards and tds.

Same OL. Different QB. Terrible offense.

Wake up dude. Jesus.

ahhh but its not.... Ryan Harris only started the first 6 games of this season, and Ben Hamilton had an epic collapse similar to Matt Lepsis in 2007, which led to the insertion of a career backup in Hochstein.

When Harris was in there our Oline looked great.

Polumbus is just unable to matchup one on one against a pass rusher.

Greg Ellis ate him for lunch today.

we need better depth at OT. Last season we got really lucky having all 5 starting olinemen start for all 16 games. our lack of depth on the line is starting to show.

colonelbeef
12-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Agree. It all starts with him. Teams don't respect the passing game and overwelm the Offensive line because the put more men in the box.

This.

Last year we have a top 3 OL, Royal is a breakout star, Hillis is a punishing back, Sheffler is one of the best pass catching threats from the TE position in the league.

This year all of that is gone. Same players. Different QB. It's either the coaching or the QB change. I have to believe that the playcalling would be better if the marble statue known as Kyle Orton wasn't taking the snaps.

It all begins and ends with Orton. People like Popps have trouble admitting this because they were all over his balls all season. Orton sucks. Say it with me, the truth will set you free.

strafen
12-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Here's the thing, even if Hillis DID perform better than our other guys, and I somewhat doubt he would... but even if he DID, he'd be battling 4 defenders behind the LOS on every single play, and absolutely no push up front.

We just can't open running lanes at all.

So, the dopes around here claiming Hillis is the "difference-maker" just don't get the bigger picture. Hillis can't levitate. Hence, he's not going to be able to get by 4 defenders in the back-field on every play.

We just aren't pushing teams forward. It's that simple.We just don't have a runner that can get by 4 defenders in the back-field on every play, and a runner that can push them forward.
Wait! we do!

meangene
12-20-2009, 04:54 PM
One thing you can do to keep running lanes open is use the TE, since its usually a LB that covers the TE. How often have they tried to integrate the TE into the offense?

Problem is we need them to block all the time because of our weak OL.

Popps
12-20-2009, 04:54 PM
If a team has a solid Oline and a good D line and a good middle backer, they can be competitive no matter who the RB or QB is. I would hope that the draft and FA would be geared towrds getting Oline and Dline help, almost exclusively.

Frankly, I hope Shanahan takes the Oline coaches with him. It is time to bring in real new blood.....

It does feel like we're just not physical enough up front to run a power-running game. Clady is the only one who seems to be able to consistently handle his man.

Obviously, we'll be going with what we have until next year. But, it's a weakness that has become more apparent as the season has gone on.

I agree, that should be a major focus this off-season.

lex
12-20-2009, 04:55 PM
Oh man, are you sure about that? Looked to me like the QB and coaches f'd things up royally just fine by themselves. OL was humming along fine, just last season. Led the NFL in least amount of sacks and what, a HB committee that featured 7 or 8 players was still respectable?

I mean, as a QB you clearly see an OT get beat yet you can't step up in the pocket or get rid of the ball? Instead you get sacked and we're forced to use a timeout? How ****ing crappy is Kyle Orton? Or how about when we have the Raiders on the ropes early we turn and hand the ball to seldom used Lamont Jordan, just to make a point to the fans and the media, that you can take your Peyton Hillis thoughts and shove it. Won't nobody be telling Josh McArrogant how to run his offense and who to play. To put a cherry on that, instead of handing off on 3rd and short, we'll just QB sneak it each time. That won't tip the defense off eventually. ANYTHING TO SHOW IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!!!!

Or how about showing the NFL how smart I am.... we have one of the top producing WR's in the league this year but instead of going to him early in the redzone, we'll FLIP A ****ING screen pass to our franchise left tackle. I mean, what's the worst thing that could happen? He fumbles the ball he's never carried before? Gets hit on the kneecap and tears a ligament? We don't get a TD?

McArrogant is one of the most miserable people in the NFL. Dude thinks he has a 20 inch cock calling plays, so much so that Peyton Hillis can shove it, along with the fans that want him to play in obvious situations... and he'll waste redzone passes and throw them to his franchise LT, instead of his WR because he just thinks his playcalling is THAT GOOD!

This arrogance is a theme. Say what you want about Cutler not being here, having a terrible year in Chicago or whatever, but the guy made Eddie Royal relevant. Josh McDaniels offense has been him IRRELEVANT. The whole reason the Cutler situation didn't work out is because Jay asked him to say that he was committed to him in the future and in ARROGANT fashion, refused to do so, just like he's refusing to play Hillis because he won't be having ANYBODY tell him how to do anything and he's willing to LOSE because of it.

Mc****ing piece of arrogant trash. This playoff loss is on his head. For the life of me, I have a hard time realizing how you can win 6-0 straight and potentially miss the playoffs losing to terrible teams in the process. Well, when you have an agenda, and ARROGANCE larger than most coaches in the game today, you call the game just as you see fit and damn everybody else.

At least we still have Joe Ellis.

Majik
12-20-2009, 04:56 PM
Hahahah.

Popps, you understand absolutely nothing about football, and will go to any length to rationalize abject failure.

Orton is the problem. Last year this same OL let up the least amount of sacks in team history and allowed for plenty of yards and tds.

Same OL. Different QB. Terrible offense.

Wake up dude. Jesus.

Yeah that's exactly why the Bears OL is doing so well this year..... hmmm...

bpc
12-20-2009, 04:57 PM
Always great analysis from you, Chris.

Just like your guarantees of Cutler's greatness in Chicago.

Catch the game today, buddy?


In any case, our o-line isn't getting any push. You can like that, ignore it, don't like it... I don't care. But, we're getting pushed back on every running play.

The arrogance by McRetard is 2nd only to your hype machine of him. McD, Orton, Knowshon, whatever, they can all royally ****ing suck and you'll suck their cock anyways in blind fashion. You always do. Hence this pathetic disgrace of a thread which equates to you blaming the OL.

"NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS, JUST A BUMP IN THE ROAD! MCD IS STILL A GENIUS, ORTON IS STILL THE NEXT COMING OF TOM BRADY! KNOWSHON IS STILL THE ANSWER!!!! BLAME THE OL!!!"

Honestly the worst part of your downfall as a fan is that you can't admit when you are wrong which is why so many people see through you now. This thread is more evidence that you've lost your MIND!

lex
12-20-2009, 04:57 PM
Problem is we need them to block all the time because of our weak OL.

No. You might have a point if the TE was integrated into the offense more. But theyre not. Im not saying youre wrong but its also not like everything is being done to open up the run...oh, and then there is also a valid theory out there that a lack of respect for the passing game, is allowing the defense to crowd the line.

colonelbeef
12-20-2009, 04:58 PM
Yeah that's exactly why the Bears OL is doing so well this year..... hmmm...

You are really comparing the offensive coaching capability of Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels to Ron Turner and Lovie Smith?

the only team that currently has crappier O playcalling than the Broncos is the Bears, and that isn't saying much

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 05:00 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

No it was lost buy a coach that has no clue how to use what you got to win a game ! if we had a Coach today we win

strafen
12-20-2009, 05:01 PM
The arrogance by McRetard is 2nd only to your hype machine of him. McD, Orton, Knowshon, whatever, they can all royally ****ing suck and you'll suck their cock anyways in blind fashion. You always do. Hence this pathetic disgrace of a thread which equates to you blaming the OL.

"NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS, JUST A BUMP IN THE ROAD! MCD IS STILL A GENIUS, ORTON IS STILL THE NEXT COMING OF TOM BRADY! KNOWSHON IS STILL THE ANSWER!!!!"

Honestly the worst part of your downfall as a fan is that you can't admit when you are wrong which is why so many people see through you now. This thread is more evidence that you've lost your MIND!Popps will never admit he's wrong. He's the master of the spin game.
He will find a way to make you see things you didn't see and make you believe you did actually see it.

The game we all watched today, is not the game Popps is now telling us we did.
The guy is a freaking tool!

rastaman
12-20-2009, 05:02 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

Nope Popps.......Orton is the problem. The O line needs to play perfect just to cover and protect Orton's liabilities. And the Defense needs to play great every week just to cover for Orton's inability to score in the Red Zone.

meangene
12-20-2009, 05:03 PM
No. You might have a point if the TE was integrated into the offense more. But theyre not. Im not saying youre wrong but its also not like everything is being done to open up the run...oh, and then there is also a valid theory out there that a lack of respect for the passing game, is allowing the defense to crowd the line.

I don't know what you can do to open up the run or the pass when teams know they can stack the line, run right over your OL and don't have to worry about the deep passing game or anything but short, quick passes because your QB will be on his ass in seconds.

Majik
12-20-2009, 05:03 PM
You are really comparing the offensive coaching capability of Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels to Ron Turner and Lovie Smith?

the only team that currently has crappier O playcalling than the Broncos is the Bears, and that isn't saying much

That point is irrelevant, your original point was defenses don't respect Orton. Well since defenses respect Cutler, everything opens up in the offense. Right?

broncogary
12-20-2009, 05:03 PM
Oh man, are you sure about that? Looked to me like the QB and coaches f'd things up royally just fine by themselves. OL was humming along fine, just last season. Led the NFL in least amount of sacks and what, a HB committee that featured 7 or 8 players was still respectable?

I mean, as a QB you clearly see an OT get beat yet you can't step up in the pocket or get rid of the ball? Instead you get sacked and we're forced to use a timeout? How ****ing crappy is Kyle Orton? Or how about when we have the Raiders on the ropes early we turn and hand the ball to seldom used Lamont Jordan, just to make a point to the fans and the media, that you can take your Peyton Hillis thoughts and shove it. Won't nobody be telling Josh McArrogant how to run his offense and who to play. To put a cherry on that, instead of handing off on 3rd and short, we'll just QB sneak it each time. That won't tip the defense off eventually. ANYTHING TO SHOW IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!!!!

Or how about showing the NFL how smart I am.... we have one of the top producing WR's in the league this year but instead of going to him early in the redzone, we'll FLIP A ****ING screen pass to our franchise left tackle. I mean, what's the worst thing that could happen? He fumbles the ball he's never carried before? Gets hit on the kneecap and tears a ligament? We don't get a TD?

McArrogant is one of the most miserable people in the NFL. Dude thinks he has a 20 inch cock calling plays, so much so that Peyton Hillis can shove it, along with the fans that want him to play in obvious situations... and he'll waste redzone passes and throw them to his franchise LT, instead of his WR because he just thinks his playcalling is THAT GOOD!

This arrogance is a theme. Say what you want about Cutler not being here, having a terrible year in Chicago or whatever, but the guy made Eddie Royal relevant. Josh McDaniels offense has been him IRRELEVANT. The whole reason the Cutler situation didn't work out is because Jay asked him to say that he was committed to him in the future and in ARROGANT fashion, refused to do so, just like he's refusing to play Hillis because he won't be having ANYBODY tell him how to do anything and he's willing to LOSE because of it.

Mc****ing piece of arrogant trash. This playoff loss is on his head. For the life of me, I have a hard time realizing how you can win 6-0 straight and potentially miss the playoffs losing to terrible teams in the process. Well, when you have an agenda, and ARROGANCE larger than most coaches in the game today, you call the game just as you see fit and damn everybody else.

Man, I used to really enjoy your football takes, but this is just silly. hmmm...

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 05:04 PM
The arrogance by McRetard is 2nd only to your hype machine of him. McD, Orton, Knowshon, whatever, they can all royally ****ing suck and you'll suck their cock anyways in blind fashion. You always do. Hence this pathetic disgrace of a thread which equates to you blaming the OL.

"NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS, JUST A BUMP IN THE ROAD! MCD IS STILL A GENIUS, ORTON IS STILL THE NEXT COMING OF TOM BRADY! KNOWSHON IS STILL THE ANSWER!!!! BLAME THE OL!!!"

Honestly the worst part of your downfall as a fan is that you can't admit when you are wrong which is why so many people see through you now. This thread is more evidence that you've lost your MIND!

BPC it was sad. You use what you have to win the game you are so Right. this lost hit our owner right in the pocket book ! big time now it is very unlike that we get to host a a play off game this lost was huge !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:05 PM
Popps will never admit he's wrong. He's the master of the spin game.
He will find a way to make you see things you didn't see and make you believe you did actually see it.

The game we all watched today, is not the game Popps is now telling us we did.
The guy is a freaking tool!

Wow, obsess much?

Sorry your boyfriend didn't get in the game.

But, don't let it bother you. He wouldn't have made any difference.

bpc
12-20-2009, 05:06 PM
Man, I used to really enjoy your football takes, but this is just silly. hmmm...

are we watching the same games?

Popps have you on the payroll?

For the life of me, i don't see how some of you guys miss such obvious things? I really can't help most of you. You're too far gone. Shanahan left you so distrusting and twisted in the head that you'll settle for the garbage we watched on offense today.

Crazyness. I feel for most of you.

HAT
12-20-2009, 05:07 PM
Orton sucks. Please stop with the rationalization.


Now this is funny.....coming from someone who rationalized his way into stiffing a bet with a fellow poster

Taco John
12-20-2009, 05:07 PM
McDaniels should go with the ZBS, and focus resouces on Defense and QB. O-line hasn't been a problem in Denver. Stick with what has been working.

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:07 PM
People like Popps have trouble admitting this because they were all over his balls all season. Orton sucks. Say it with me, the truth will set you free.

Sorry, Colon-beef. You've never been a good reader, so I'll forgive you for mistaking my position on Orton. I've never said he was the savior. I just think he's unjustly blamed for losses like this.

I guess when you've been as wrong as you've been about everything, you just resort to making things up.

But, we lost... so at least you have that to celebrate.

rugbythug
12-20-2009, 05:07 PM
Man this place is full of Douchebags. Which one of you had the laser pointer?

Orton is not great but he is not the worst problem.

Fix the worst first.

New Center + Guard. They get ate up every time. Then Moreno will look like a stud.

colonelbeef
12-20-2009, 05:07 PM
Nope Popps.......Orton is the problem. The O line needs to play perfect just to cover and protect Orton's liabilities. And the Defense needs to play great every week just to cover for Orton's inability to score in the Red Zone.

Exactly. Just watch a replay of the Marshall TD. The Offensive line had to give him 5 seconds for that play, and he barely squeaked it in there.

Orton makes the Ol look bad because he is a god damned noodle armed statue

colonelbeef
12-20-2009, 05:08 PM
Sorry, Colon-beef. You've never been a good reader, so I'll forgive you for mistaking my position on Orton. I've never said he was the savior. I just think he's unjustly blamed for losses like this.

I guess when you've been as wrong as you've been about everything, you just resort to making things up.

But, we lost... so at least you have that to celebrate.

Fan card!! Fan card!! True fan alert!!!

Admit you were wrong about the offense getting better this year. Admit you've been wrong about Orton and his abilities.

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:10 PM
Man, I used to really enjoy your football takes, but this is just silly. hmmm...

Yep, he's sub-troll level, now. It's a shame, because you used to get great insight from him.

He's never been able to accept the change, and needs us to fail.

We're probably 2-3 wins past what most of us thought we could achieve this year, and BPC is panicking as if we've ruined some great tradition the past few seasons.

At least we still have a shot to make the playoffs... something we haven't done in years.

strafen
12-20-2009, 05:11 PM
Wow, obsess much?

Sorry your boyfriend didn't get in the game.

But, don't let it bother you. He wouldn't have made any difference.Obsess about being in denial man?
No, Hillis wouldn't had made any difference. He didn't play, but Moreno did, and he did what I thought he would do. He is what I thought he was. A bust!
You're a freakin nimrod.
Get serious.
Trying to blame the Oline after we all saw the game?
Were you watching the game in Cali thru a PC cam?

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:11 PM
Fan card!! Fan card!! True fan alert!!!

Admit you were wrong about the offense getting better this year. Admit you've been wrong about Orton and his abilities.

Show me where I guaranteed the "offense would get better" and where I guaranteed Orton would be the reason.

Never said any such thing.

In fact, I dug my heels in and expected a slow rebuilding process for this team. We're way ahead of schedule, which I'm sure upsets you.

Again, you should be out partying, bro. We lost!

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:12 PM
Trying to blame the Oline after we all saw the game?


IF you saw the game, you should have been well aware that we had no offensive push and that this is an ongoing concern.

But, you're too busy wacking it to Hillis' football card (if he has one) to talk about anything but him.

strafen
12-20-2009, 05:12 PM
Yep, he's sub-troll level, now. It's a shame, because you used to get great insight from him.

He's never been able to accept the change, and needs us to fail.

We're probably 2-3 wins past what most of us thought we could achieve this year, and BPC is panicking as if we've ruined some great tradition the past few seasons.

At least we still have a shot to make the playoffs... something we haven't done in years.

Another spin on reality brought to you by Popptards. Popptards are so delicious, kids love 'em

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:13 PM
Another spin on reality brought to you by Popptards. Popptards are so delicious, kids love 'em

Dude, you're going to have to get in line if you want to join the fanclub. You're way down the list.

rastaman
12-20-2009, 05:13 PM
Yep, he's sub-troll level, now. It's a shame, because you used to get great insight from him.

He's never been able to accept the change, and needs us to fail.

We're probably 2-3 wins past what most of us thought we could achieve this year, and BPC is panicking as if we've ruined some great tradition the past few seasons.

At least we still have a shot to make the playoffs... something we haven't done in years.

Popps Dude! Quit while you're still ahead! Since going 6-0, McD has gone 2-6! Are you going to blame that miserable slide on the OFFENSIVE LINE!

Even McD would have more RESPECT for you if you placed the blame squarely on his shoulders.:~ohyah!:

HAT
12-20-2009, 05:14 PM
At least we still have a shot to make the playoffs... something we haven't done in years.

A shot?

Denver is in the Drivers seat in the W/C chase.

strafen
12-20-2009, 05:14 PM
IF you saw the game, you should have been well aware that we had no offensive push and that this is an ongoing concern.

But, you're too busy wacking it to Hillis' football card (if he has one) to talk about anything but him.Last year Hillis was your flavor of the season. This year is Moreno.
Hard to take a hack like you serious, bud. :thumbsup:

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 05:14 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.


Funny how Shanny could get so much production out of that same OL. It's scheme. I've been yelling at the TV for weeks to go PA on first down. After 7 more first down runs today, we finally go PA on first down and guess what... Orton throws for 20 yards over the middle. If I can figure this shiat out, WTF can't McD? How phucking hard is it to use your team's strengths and mask your weaknesses? If your strength on the OL is on the left side and you have a struggling RT, roll your coverage his way!

Play calling has been atrocious. We basically gave a dozen plays away b/c of playcalling.

And please tell me Popps, how the PHUCK does our OL have anything to do with the Raiders rushing for close to 250 yards today???

colonelbeef
12-20-2009, 05:15 PM
Show me where I guaranteed the "offense would get better" and where I guaranteed Orton would be the reason.

Never said any such thing.

In fact, I dug my heels in and expected a slow rebuilding process for this team. We're way ahead of schedule, which I'm sure upsets you.

Again, you should be out partying, bro. We lost!

How many times did you say Kyle Orton would 'surprise' us, that he was 'much better' than anybody thought, and that he was a better QB for the Denver Broncos?

Obviously he wasn't, isn't and won't be. He is a failure. When are you going to admit that Kyle Orton sucks?

orangemonkey
12-20-2009, 05:15 PM
Hahahah.

Popps, you understand absolutely nothing about football, and will go to any length to rationalize abject failure.

Orton is the problem. Last year this same OL let up the least amount of sacks in team history and allowed for plenty of yards and tds.

Same OL. Different QB. Terrible offense.

Wake up dude. Jesus.

Yep, at this point i understand one thing about popps: he doesn't really understand this game. Fact is that we have a top-10, possibly top-5 o-line and he still spreads this nonsense. He also said BMarsh doesn't know how to run routes or get separation and that is the tip of his iceberg. Popps just doesn't know how to admit he his wrong. Has he ever in the history of this site?

epa86b@netzero
12-20-2009, 05:16 PM
Here's the thing, even if Hillis DID perform better than our other guys, and I somewhat doubt he would... but even if he DID, he'd be battling 4 defenders behind the LOS on every single play, and absolutely no push up front.

We just can't open running lanes at all.

So, the dopes around here claiming Hillis is the "difference-maker" just don't get the bigger picture. Hillis can't levitate. Hence, he's not going to be able to get by 4 defenders in the back-field on every play.

We just aren't pushing teams forward. It's that simple.

I agree, the O-line is the issue. In addition, I am not a Hillis supporter. However, I do think Hillis in the Wildhorses formation powering up the middle with Larsen in front of him is the best we fans can hope for in the way of powerball but the coach has not try it. I wonder why?

I am not going to panic because this is year 1 and the coach has benched multiple O-line. THere is nothing left on the bench to try as far as personnel goes.

My two cents.

Broncomutt
12-20-2009, 05:16 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

I agree we need help in the interior line, but it isn't just 1 thing with this team. If I'm hanging our "like clockwork collapse" on a single solitary thing, it's McDaniels. He's the coach, the buck stops with him.

rastaman
12-20-2009, 05:17 PM
Show me where I guaranteed the "offense would get better" and where I guaranteed Orton would be the reason.

Never said any such thing.

In fact, I dug my heels in and expected a slow rebuilding process for this team. We're way ahead of schedule, which I'm sure upsets you.

Again, you should be out partying, bro. We lost!

How are we way ahead of schedule! What schedule are you referring to? Were we on schedule to start the season 6-0 only to slide to 2-6? Is this the schedule we are on???

Go ahead and spin away.....Mr. Psyops. I'm listening.;)

strafen
12-20-2009, 05:18 PM
Yep, at this point i understand one thing about popps: he doesn't really understand this game. Fact is that we have a top-10, possibly top-5 o-line and he still spreads this nonsense. He also said BMarsh doesn't know how to run routes or get separation and that is the tip of his iceberg. Popps just doesn't know how to admit he his wrong. Has he ever in the history of this site?Hey, you keep throwing sh*t on the wall, eventually something is going to stick.
In Popps case, he's still waiting for his first sh*t to stick... LOL

broncogary
12-20-2009, 05:18 PM
Yep, at this point i understand one thing about popps: he doesn't really understand this game. Fact is that we have a top-10, possibly top-5 o-line and he still spreads this nonsense. He also said BMarsh doesn't know how to run routes or get separation and that is the tip of his iceberg. Popps just doesn't know how to admit he his wrong. Has he ever in the history of this site?

I know Popps has a hard time admitting he's wrong, but he's right about this.

ColoradoDarin
12-20-2009, 05:20 PM
The OL was a problem today, but I think giving the raiders over 250 yards rushing cost us the game.

orangemonkey
12-20-2009, 05:21 PM
I know Popps has a hard time admitting he's wrong, but he's right about this.

wait what...? that our offensive line is the problem or that Bmarsh can't run routes or get separation? Where is he right?

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:22 PM
I agree we need help in the interior line, but it isn't just 1 thing with this team. If I'm hanging our "like clockwork collapse" on a single solitary thing, it's McDaniels. He's the coach, the buck stops with him.

I'd agree with that, as well. A lot of things went wrong today. This game just had the feeling of one that was going to go this way. I posted that around half-time. It just had that kind of stink to it. When we couldn't punch it in for 6 near the end of the game to seal it, you just knew **** was going to hit the fan.

There's a lot of blame to go around today. I agree the play-calling looked suspect. Then again, we had a chance to win the game. All we had to do was make a play. Either on offense to punch it in and end the game or on defense to stop freakin' Jar Jar.

People are going to panic, and that's fine. It's a gut-wrenching loss. Half of the panic around here will be celebratory, from those who are hoping we fail. The other half will be from folks who probably need to calm down and look at the bigger picture.

We're still in a playoff hunt with two weeks left. None of us would have predicted that. This franchise is headed in the right direction.

This game just stings, and it'll sting for years if we don't make it in.

But, they didn't lay down and we didn't play stupid. It's a talent issue. We need more.

I'm still proud of this team... we just have work to do.

elsid13
12-20-2009, 05:22 PM
It very hard for any offense unit to be successful when you run the same play out of the same formation all the time. The defense has the game film and know what you are doing. I know for fact that if Larson is at FB, the run will be toward the right side. When Graham moves from left to right, the play is off tackle to back side.

lex
12-20-2009, 05:22 PM
I know Popps has a hard time admitting he's wrong, but he's right about this.

Not really. He's right that the OLine should be upgraded but to say its THE problme and ignore the fact that theyre being set up for failure isnt really being honest.

Rohirrim
12-20-2009, 05:22 PM
We can't go back to the ZBS. Besides, it didn't do the team any good last year when they engineered the worst collapse in history. The ZBS is history on this team. If the Broncos want to compete with the Ravens, and the Steelers, and now, it looks like, the Raiders, they are going to have to get some beef up front. They are going to have to dominate the line. On play after play after play, this line got pushed around.

In fact, the Raiders did to us today what the Ravens and Steelers did: Out muscled us on the line.

HEAV
12-20-2009, 05:23 PM
Today 3 things lead to the loss. Yes the O-line was bad. Harris being gone is huge and a few people noticed early on in the year that the Center/Guard position wasn't big enough for teh power blocking.

Also today the defense really stunk it up at times. Yes there was a great goal line stand but it got run on too easy and made some stupid penalties when they had the Raiders on the ropes.

Finally Coach was stubborn today and tried to smash a sqaure peg into a small round hole. Moreno is decent from the 20 to 20, but he's not a goal line back with the O-line in front of him. Maybe Hillis could have done better...maybe not.

But Coach should have called more playaction on first downs and not contiued to run the ball over and over with little success. Like I stated in the "Keys to victory" thread. This offense can't rely only on Marshall. Need to find another weapon.

Maybe in 2010 McDaniels can get his type Center and Guard and run smash mouth plays. But for now it's gotta be something else.

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:24 PM
I know Popps has a hard time admitting he's wrong, but he's right about this.

I'm fine admitting I'm wrong if you just attribute the right statement to me.

Guys like Colon-beef are claiming I said Orton was our savior. I never remotely said any such thing.

I don't know if I can watch this game again, but if I do... I'll focus even more on the lines to figure out if I can tell where the biggest problems are.

This isn't just a result of stacking, either. We're not moving D-linemen where we need to move them. There simply wasn't anywhere for Moreno to run most of the day.

frerottenextelway
12-20-2009, 05:24 PM
We need to pass to Offensive Line more often.

strafen
12-20-2009, 05:24 PM
How many times did you say Kyle Orton would 'surprise' us, that he was 'much better' than anybody thought, and that he was a better QB for the Denver Broncos?

Obviously he wasn't, isn't and won't be. He is a failure. When are you going to admit that Kyle Orton sucks?He just blows with the wind. He's got no credibility...

bpc
12-20-2009, 05:25 PM
McDaniels should go with the ZBS, and focus resouces on Defense and QB. O-line hasn't been a problem in Denver. Stick with what has been working.

NO! We cannot do that! That would fit our scheme and McD doesn't ever play to his player's strengths, he makes them conform to his SYSTEM OR ELSE!!!!

Arrogance at it's finest and we know McD! He's sure he's right in this situation as well!

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/square%20peg%20round%20hole" target="_blank"><img src="http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/nathanb78/random/square-peg-round-hole.jpg" border="0" alt="square peg round hole Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

Natedog24
12-20-2009, 05:25 PM
Orton is an average QB no doubt about it, but its not his fault that Denver is sooooooo damn easy to stop in short-yardage situations. Shanny could make an undersized Oline work in his system but that system is gone forever. Time to rebuild the Oline. Build one that will work for what McD needs and maybe, just maybe get one that can get an actual push at the line of scrimmage every once and awhile because right now its flat out embarrassing how easily this oline is blown up in the running game....

You can't fail to score TD in goalline situations this consistently and then turn around and place all the blame on the QB and not the running game, that is just stupid, real stupid...

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:25 PM
We can't go back to the ZBS. Besides, it didn't do the team any good last year when they engineered the worst collapse in history. The ZBS is history on this team. If the Broncos want to compete with the Ravens, and the Steelers, and now, it looks like, the Raiders, they are going to have to get some beef up front. They are going to have to dominated the line. On play after play after play, this line got pushed around.

In fact, the Raiders did to us today what the Ravens and Steelers did: Out muscled us on the line.

Yep. Rational and sensible, as usual.


The ZBS is gone. We're transitioning, and that's not always an easy process.

You said it. We've got to be able to punch people in the mouth, and we're just not able to do that. Our shouldn't have to fight through 4 defenders in the backfield on short yardage EVERY single time, no matter who that RB may be.

fontaine
12-20-2009, 05:25 PM
This is so full of sh*t. KC/Cleveland/Oak have piss poor OLs riddled with injuries. KC were missing three OL, Oakland also and have guys like Cooper Carlisle, Pears, Green yet they ALL ran the ball better than Denver today.

Cable pretty much outcoached McD in the run game because he kept mixing up draw plays, tosses/sweeps, and yes run to the interior designed to take advantage of our pass rushers going out wide.

Good coaching isn't about putting up results with great talent. It's about putting up results despite lack of great talent.

And yes in that regard McD got schooled today by a has been Raider coach, with Frye, Russell, and Losman in a cluster **** at QB.

frerottenextelway
12-20-2009, 05:26 PM
I'm fine admitting I'm wrong if you just attribute the right statement to me.

Guys like Colon-beef are claiming I said Orton was our savior. I never remotely said any such thing.

I don't know if I can watch this game again, but if I do... I'll focus even more on the lines to figure out if I can tell where the biggest problems are.

This isn't just a result of stacking, either. We're not moving D-linemen where we need to move them. There simply wasn't anywhere for Moreno to run most of the day.

Did Moreno break 1 tackle today?

You see running backs ''make something out of nothing'', it doesn't seem Moreno has that ability.

bpc
12-20-2009, 05:27 PM
Yep, he's sub-troll level, now. It's a shame, because you used to get great insight from him.

He's never been able to accept the change, and needs us to fail.

We're probably 2-3 wins past what most of us thought we could achieve this year, and BPC is panicking as if we've ruined some great tradition the past few seasons.

At least we still have a shot to make the playoffs... something we haven't done in years.

WAAAAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAH! Here comes the fan police because I called his demigod out again.

For christsakes... grow some balls and just admit flaws to your hero.

I see why you like McDaniels. Arrogance is something you both share.

ColoradoDarin
12-20-2009, 05:28 PM
Did Moreno break 1 tackle today?

You see running backs ''make something out of nothing'', it doesn't seem Moreno has that ability.

Yes, he did. I remember at least one play where he was caught 2 yards behind the LOS and made a 3-4 yard gain of it.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 05:29 PM
Abandoning the ZBS is a mistake.

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:29 PM
Abandoning the ZBS is a mistake.

Who was the last team to win a SB with the ZBS?

lex
12-20-2009, 05:31 PM
Abandoning the ZBS is a mistake.

Yup. We need better linemen who can do both or be more stout within the ZBS.

orangemonkey
12-20-2009, 05:31 PM
Yes, he did. I remember at least one play where he was caught 2 yards behind the LOS and made a 3-4 yard gain of it.

actually he did it more than 5 times. young guy is still learning but he played well tonight breaking tackles. wow...i can't believe people are trying to put this on our line.

fontaine
12-20-2009, 05:32 PM
And what exactly is the point of the thread - We have a crappy OL along the interior against a huge DL in Seymour, Warren, Kelly so keep running vanilla up the middle?

Yes, Hochstein/Weigmann aren't cutting it up the middle so how does McD address that? By calling run play after run play up the middle? That's just stupid on so many levels.

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:32 PM
WAAAAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAH! Here comes the fan police because I called his demigod out again.

For christsakes... grow some balls and just admit flaws to your hero.

I see why you like McDaniels. Arrogance is something you both share.

My "hero?" Did I say anyone was without flaws? Really? I don't recall that.

I just believe in this team, Chris. I'm sorry you've become such a miserable person, gloating after losses and disappearing after wins.

As I've said before, I can't imagine this brings you pleasure. You hold this team in such disdain, no amount of progress would make you happy. In fact, it'll just make you more miserable.

Sad, man. You used to be interesting.

You're just a bad caricature of a troll, now.

lex
12-20-2009, 05:32 PM
Who was the last team to win a SB with the ZBS?

Teams win SBs not only because of their running game but also because of their passing game and defense. What does that have to do with anything? If you look at offenses though, there have been several good running teams that have been running the ZBS. Atlanta, Houston, Seattle,...

lex
12-20-2009, 05:33 PM
And what exactly is the point of the thread - We have a crappy OL along the interior against a huge DL in Seymour, Warren, Kelly so keep running vanilla up the middle?

Yes, Hochstein/Weigmann aren't cutting it up the middle so how does McD address that? By calling run play after run play up the middle? That's just stupid on so many levels.

Yup, that = setting them up for failure, which falls on the coach.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 05:34 PM
Who was the last team to win a SB with the ZBS?

The Giants.

HAT
12-20-2009, 05:34 PM
Were we on schedule to start the season 6-0 only to slide to 2-6?

The ONLY thing that matters is the net wins...Not the order in which they came.

Denver is in the drivers seat to make the playoffs, improve upon last years record AND have a top ten pick in next years draft. Let's hope they hit that trifecta.

rastaman
12-20-2009, 05:34 PM
Who was the last team to win a SB with the ZBS?

Ahhhhhh.....Popps when will McD lead us to the SB?

elsid13
12-20-2009, 05:35 PM
Who was the last team to win a SB with the ZBS?

It so ineffective that over half the team in the NFL and Collage run some form of it and rest use staples play like the stretch run from the Zone Blocking scheme.

strafen
12-20-2009, 05:35 PM
Disclaimer: I credit Elway from BC for the post below. Worth copy and paste it here:
1st half we ran him 6 times on first down for 29 yards
2nd half we ran him 8 times on first down for 0 yards

The fact we tried 14 times on first down to use him just enforces how predictable this offense has become.
Jordan had a better ypc 5.4 than Moreno's With Bucky out Hillis should have been used more.
This offense intimidates no one.
From 6-0 to 8-6 and the running game is a big reason why.

1st quarter:
1-10-DEN 35 (13:22) 27-K.Moreno right tackle to DEN 38 for 3 yards
1-10-OAK 49 (12:10) 27-K.Moreno up the middle to OAK 41 for 8 yards
1-10-OAK 17 (6:43) 27-K.Moreno left guard to OAK 12 for 5 yards
1-10-DEN 39 (2:36) 27-K.Moreno left end to DEN 46 for 7 yards2nd quarter:
1-10-DEN 35 (12:29) 27-K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 35 for no gain.
1-10-DEN 20 (6:40) 27-K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 26 for 6 yards.

3rd quarter:
1-10-DEN 20 (15:00) 27-K.Moreno right end to DEN 20 for no gain.
1-10-DEN 30 (13:38) 27-K.Moreno right guard to DEN 31 for 1 yard.
1-10-OAK 33 (10:57) 27-K.Moreno up the middle to OAK 33 for no gain.
1-10- (7:31) 27-K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 46 for -4 yards.
1-10-OAK 49 (6:51) 27-K.Moreno up the middle to OAK 45 for 4 yards .

4th quarter:
1-10-DEN 1 (14:52) 27-K.Moreno right tackle to DEN 1 for no gain.
1-10-DEN 19 (9:35) 27-K.Moreno right guard to DEN 18 for -1 yards.
1-10-DEN 24 (3:59) 27-K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 24 for no gain.

orangemonkey
12-20-2009, 05:36 PM
jhns was totally right about Orton. It will interesting to see what McD does with him next year. Unfortunately, you can't build around a guy who can't make the basic throws, has no mobility and is running out of luck.

orangemonkey
12-20-2009, 05:37 PM
Do you think we would have a shot at Charlie Frye next year?

Dr. Broncenstein
12-20-2009, 05:38 PM
It was pretty amazing to see what the ZBS could do against us, with scrapheap Broncos of yesteryear to boot.

Popps
12-20-2009, 05:38 PM
The Giants.

Talk to Giants fans. There's a lot of mixed opinions on how successful they've been with it. They're struggling mightily this year, obviously.

The other issue is, if you want to run a zone, you need light, quick, athletic linemen.

But, those aren't the same linemen you use if you run a spread passing offense, in general.


A couple teams in history have won SBs with the zone, the rest have not.

We've just got personnel problems, imo.

Rohirrim
12-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Actually, the Raiders did a great job with ZBS today - on defense. Every time the Broncos tried to run the ball off tackle they just drove them sideways and smashed all the gaps. How many times was Knowshon hit behind the line?

elsid13
12-20-2009, 05:44 PM
Talk to Giants fans. There's a lot of mixed opinions on how successful they've been with it. They're struggling mightily this year, obviously.

The other issue is, if you want to run a zone, you need light, quick, athletic linemen.

But, those aren't the same linemen you use if you run a spread passing offense, in general.


A couple teams in history have won SBs with the zone, the rest have not.

We've just got personnel problems, imo.

What are you talking about??? The most successful spread offenses use same type of linemen that fit right into the ZBS. In collage UF, Michigan, WV, Utah, Oregon all are spread team that use the ZBS exclusives. Even NE use ZBS in about 50% of its run plays.

gyldenlove
12-20-2009, 05:50 PM
It does feel like we're just not physical enough up front to run a power-running game. Clady is the only one who seems to be able to consistently handle his man.

Obviously, we'll be going with what we have until next year. But, it's a weakness that has become more apparent as the season has gone on.

I agree, that should be a major focus this off-season.

It seems to me that offensive line we have was good enough last year, maybe the problem is the scheme not the players. You can't ask lawyers to be artists and artists to be accountants, to have success you need to give people tasks they are good at, if we don't have the players to run a power scheme then isn't it easier to find another scheme rather than replacing 5 starters and 4 backups? This seems like the sort of thing a good coach should do.

Rohirrim
12-20-2009, 05:56 PM
The teams we need to get past have power based Dlines. They can blow up the ZBS. Same problem we had when Shanahan was here. We couldn't get past the power teams. And if anybody thought we were doing okay with what we had, all I can ask you to do is watch the tapes on the three last games last season. San Diego, the Ravens, the Steelers, and now the Raiders have blown us up on the Oline. That's the biggest weakness on this team, IMHO. Harris and Clady are fine (if Harris can find a way to stay healthy - he had the same problem in college). But our guards and center are getting dishragged.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 05:56 PM
We've got the o line coach and players for a ZBS. It would be a mistake to dump the system that has put Denver on the map and start from square one again. Go back to what works, and put resources into Defense and QB.

baja
12-20-2009, 06:25 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

I agree the O line is not getting it done They shoulda stayed with the ZBS that is what they were built for and were one of the best O lines in the league because of it. Shoulda keep it for this season.

Rohirrim
12-20-2009, 06:37 PM
I agree the O line is not getting it done They shoulda stayed with the ZBS that is what they were built for and were one of the best O lines in the league because of it. Shoulda keep it for this season.

You've got to transition sooner or later, if that's the direction you want to go. Might as well get it over with.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 06:44 PM
Why do we have to transition from something that worked?

colonelbeef
12-20-2009, 06:50 PM
The teams we need to get past have power based Dlines. They can blow up the ZBS. Same problem we had when Shanahan was here. We couldn't get past the power teams. And if anybody thought we were doing okay with what we had, all I can ask you to do is watch the tapes on the three last games last season. San Diego, the Ravens, the Steelers, and now the Raiders have blown us up on the Oline. That's the biggest weakness on this team, IMHO. Harris and Clady are fine (if Harris can find a way to stay healthy - he had the same problem in college). But our guards and center are getting dishragged.

Incorrect.

You can get past the power teams if they have to respect the deep ball and the QBs ability to move in the pocket, of which Orton can do neither- you play to their weaknesses, instead of playing to your own, a la McDaniels and the 2009 Denver Broncos.

As I recall, both Elway and to a lesser degree Plummer were pretty successful running the very same ZBS. In fact, just last year, Jay Cutler was far more effective running the ZBS than Orton, McDaniels, and the 1st round RB have been without.

baja
12-20-2009, 06:51 PM
We can't go back to the ZBS. Besides, it didn't do the team any good last year when they engineered the worst collapse in history. The ZBS is history on this team. If the Broncos want to compete with the Ravens, and the Steelers, and now, it looks like, the Raiders, they are going to have to get some beef up front. They are going to have to dominate the line. On play after play after play, this line got pushed around.

In fact, the Raiders did to us today what the Ravens and Steelers did: Out muscled us on the line.

Mostly true except the line was good last year.

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 06:55 PM
You've got to transition sooner or later, if that's the direction you want to go. Might as well get it over with.

yep I hope dip **** tells that to our owner .Ha!Ha!

We will be getting a new coach seconds after that .

jhat01
12-20-2009, 06:56 PM
yep I hope dip **** tells that to our owner .Ha!Ha!

We will be getting a new coach seconds after that .

I doubt that.

Rohirrim
12-20-2009, 06:58 PM
Why do we have to transition from something that worked?

Because for ten years it didn't take us to the big dance. When the Shanahan scheme did take us to the big show, he had the best QB in NFL history, one of the best RBs, a HOF and all-pro Oline (maybe one of the best Olines of all time from Zimmerman to Jones) and a powerhouse defense. In other words, since then, it didn't work.

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 07:00 PM
Why do we have to transition from something that worked?

Well Taco I do not mind changing to power but we got a Zone blocking team after harris went down . Thing is we will be better off in the long run IMO but we should win now and that should of been done today with Misdirection and left out the power BS .

The 1st down one yard plug play kills me .:sunshine:

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 07:02 PM
I doubt that.

going up and telling your owner that us losing was for the best ....:thumbs:

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 07:04 PM
Because for ten years it didn't take us to the big dance. When the Shanahan scheme did take us to the big show, he had the best QB in NFL history, one of the best RBs, a HOF and all-pro Oline (maybe one of the best Olines of all time from Zimmerman to Jones) and a powerhouse defense. In other words, it didn't work.

talk out your ass Rohirrim you always do.

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 07:07 PM
Taco the NFL banned the zone blocking Schemes when we won the second SB is good reason to change. but you still play your players the best way to win . and today we flat out failed to do so.

baja
12-20-2009, 07:07 PM
Because for ten years it didn't take us to the big dance. When the Shanahan scheme did take us to the big show, he had the best QB in NFL history, one of the best RBs, a HOF and all-pro Oline (maybe one of the best Olines of all time from Zimmerman to Jones) and a powerhouse defense. In other words, it didn't work.

I was never very proud of the ZBS but you are wrong it was one of the most effective O line units for years and yes they did break down the end of last season but the whole team quit

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 07:09 PM
Thing is MCd is right to a point but he is not Willey

TonyR
12-20-2009, 07:09 PM
The Broncos averaged 2.9 yards per rush and were tackled for a loss 5 times on run plays. Sorry folks but the O-line has to shoulder at least some of the blame for this.

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 07:11 PM
I was never very proud of the ZBS but you are wrong it was one of the most effective O line units for years and yes they did break down the end of last season but the whole team quit

to a point it was effective but after our 2nd SB they screwed us .

~Crash~
12-20-2009, 07:12 PM
The Broncos averaged 2.9 yards per rush and were tackled for a loss 5 times on run plays. Sorry folks but the O-line has to shoulder at least some of the blame for this.

LOL you guys are to ****ing dim for this person.

Rohirrim
12-20-2009, 07:18 PM
talk out your ass Rohirrim you always do.

meh

lex
12-20-2009, 07:20 PM
Because for ten years it didn't take us to the big dance. When the Shanahan scheme did take us to the big show, he had the best QB in NFL history, one of the best RBs, a HOF and all-pro Oline (maybe one of the best Olines of all time from Zimmerman to Jones) and a powerhouse defense. In other words, it didn't work.

No, that OLine was outstanding and to a large degree it was a collection of castoffs...or at the very least players who had played in other systems. Schlereth, for example, was a starter in Washington. Gibbs used to like to line up and run up the middle...he also pulled a lot. That doesnt exactly line up with the ZBS but Schlereth was a linemen who could function in multiple schemes. He was mobile enough for the ZBS and he was also stout enough in close quarters scenarios like down on the goal line. We played power based teams during those years. In 1997, KC hadnt allowed a rushing TD at home all year. We also played Pittsburgh. Jax wasnt exactly finesse on defense either. And then, of course, there was Gilbert Brown.

What changed was that instead of getting scheme diverse players, we ended up developing a formula for acquiring OLine talent, which dictated the type of lineman and where to draft them. In the process of doing that, we ended up emphasizing more mobility. One generation into the ZBS, we deemphasized scheme diversity because it wasnt new like it was in 95-97.

It was more of a flaw in acquiring talent to play the OLine than it was in the system itself. Its still that way. As has been mentioned, several teams run the ZBS and a lot of them dont struggle the same way in short yardage. Its not the scheme per se as much as its the personnel. But its a proven scheme and one thats still viable.

Broncolorado
12-20-2009, 07:20 PM
The issue this game was Rushing
<!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Rushing Offense and Rushing Defense.They both stunk it up.

Yes the oline isn't that good but alot of it has to do with the scheme.This group should be zone blocking,but even if they were you can't have a back(Moreno)who thinks he's auditioning for dancing with the stars.He is always hesistating like he's afraid,no confidence to just go for it.We've had backs like that before who danced or hesitated and Turner and Shanny benched them if it continued.Even when he does on that rare occasion,burst right to the hole he loses his balance and falls(all too often)

The defensive line looked like a bunch of individuals looking to pad their sack stats and have their names mentioned on TV.Other than the goal line stand they were ignoring the run gaps and going for the sack.It's all about ME,not team.I'm sick now because the unbelievable start and selflessness of this team the first 6 games had me thinking this was something special but now we're starting to see it's more about individuals positioning themselves for paydays and throw in some piss poor play calling and stubornness to give Hillis a try when the other back is doing the samba.Even though Hillis looked good in garbage time everyone knew he was going to get the ball to run out the clock and even knowing it the opponenets 1st string defense couldn't stop him from 1st down after 1st down running out the clock.
This really hurts and I don't want to just get to the playoffs by the back door and get blown out.I was hoping for a head of steam but I reckon that would take a TEAM effort.
<!-- / message --><!-- controls -->http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/misc/progress.gif

Popps
12-20-2009, 07:59 PM
Because for ten years it didn't take us to the big dance. When the Shanahan scheme did take us to the big show, he had the best QB in NFL history, one of the best RBs, a HOF and all-pro Oline (maybe one of the best Olines of all time from Zimmerman to Jones) and a powerhouse defense. In other words, since then, it didn't work.

Yea, scheme is part of it... but once again, you're right on the money.

When you've got Zimm and Jones bookending your line, a Broncos HOF at center and a multiple Pro Bowl guard, your scheme looks pretty good.

But, rewind a year back... and we were having these same discussions. (No running game, no short yardage conversions, etc.)

It's about talent AND scheme, and we need better talent on the interior line to execute ANY scheme. Simply flipping a switch to a ZBS isn't going to fix things.

We're going to get bigger and more physical up front, and I'm excited about it. I'm tired of watching our finesse blockers fading as the season goes on.

We need more talent. It takes time.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 08:06 PM
Yea, scheme is part of it... but once again, you're right on the money.

When you've got Zimm and Jones bookending your line, a Broncos HOF at center and a multiple Pro Bowl guard, your scheme looks pretty good.

But, rewind a year back... and we were having these same discussions. (No running game, no short yardage conversions, etc.)

It's about talent AND scheme, and we need better talent on the interior line to execute ANY scheme. Simply flipping a switch to a ZBS isn't going to fix things.

We're going to get bigger and more physical up front, and I'm excited about it. I'm tired of watching our finesse blockers fading as the season goes on.

We need more talent. It takes time.

Popps, I agree with you and Ro in that the offense needed to be changed. However, for the here and now, why wouldn't we 'tweak' the scheme to utilize our player's strengths? At least until next offseason when he has a chance to assemble some big uglies for the interior OL. I mean, it's pretty clear to everyone in the NFL what he wants to do and it's equally clear that it's not working... so change something. Play to your CURRENT player's strengths. I'm all for changing to a power running game. As you guys have stated, that WILL win championships, but how about we do something that fits the current personnel's strengths instead... novel idea huh?

Popps
12-20-2009, 08:16 PM
Popps, I agree with you and Ro in that the offense needed to be changed. However, for the here and now, why wouldn't we 'tweak' the scheme to utilize our player's strengths? At least until next offseason when he has a chance to assemble some big uglies for the interior OL. I mean, it's pretty clear to everyone in the NFL what he wants to do and it's equally clear that it's not working... so change something. Play to your CURRENT player's strengths. I'm all for changing to a power running game. As you guys have stated, that WILL win championships, but how about we do something that fits the current personnel's strengths instead... novel idea huh?

Are you're sure they're not?

Are you sure we have guys that are more suited to running a ZBS? Just because we have in the past, doesn't ensure that we are right now. I'm also not sure that we aren't still running elements of a ZBS. I saw what looked like a couple of counter plays today. (Attempts.) But, we're just getting blasted backwards off of the ball on every play. I'm not sure how zone-blocking is going to suddenly cure that.

You could be right. Maybe it's that simple. You just announce at practice this week that we're switching schemes and it works. If it's that easy, do it. I just have my doubts that it's scheme more than talent.

bloodsunday
12-20-2009, 08:16 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

I agree with almost all of this. I do think a back that runs a little more North and South could pick up some of these short yardage situations. That said, it's primarily an OL issue.

bpc
12-20-2009, 08:18 PM
Popps, I agree with you and Ro in that the offense needed to be changed. However, for the here and now, why wouldn't we 'tweak' the scheme to utilize our player's strengths? At least until next offseason when he has a chance to assemble some big uglies for the interior OL. I mean, it's pretty clear to everyone in the NFL what he wants to do and it's equally clear that it's not working... so change something. Play to your CURRENT player's strengths. I'm all for changing to a power running game. As you guys have stated, that WILL win championships, but how about we do something that fits the current personnel's strengths instead... novel idea huh?

Que Popps:

No change needed here. McD has us on the path greatness...

<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/square%20peg%20round%20hole" target="_blank"><img src="http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/nathanb78/random/square-peg-round-hole.jpg" border="0" alt="square peg round hole Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

Popps
12-20-2009, 08:26 PM
I agree with almost all of this. I do think a back that runs a little more North and South could pick up some of these short yardage situations. That said, it's primarily an OL issue.

Think of the difference Buck and Harris could have made today. We're just not talented enough on offense to be without guys like that.

I'm totally fine with Hillis, Jordan or any other back taking the short yardage carries. I'm all for it.

I'm just convinced that our interior line needs changes. We've got work to do and McDaniels even hinted at it at his press conference last week. You can't run when guys are living in your backfield.

mhgaffney
12-20-2009, 08:32 PM
So why is Orton throwing to Jordan out of the backfield -- a guy who cannot catch -- instead of to the guys with the soft hands, i.e. Moreno and = Hillis?

This is on McDaniels as much as Orton.

And whatever happened to Denver's plug and play offense? Apparently it left on the Shanny train.

Popps
12-20-2009, 09:33 PM
Jordan has very good hands. He had 500 yards receiving in 05. He's well-known as a guy who can catch the ball out of the backfield.

lex
12-20-2009, 09:37 PM
Jordan has very good hands. He had 500 yards receiving in 05. He's well-known in Poland as a guy who can catch the ball out of the backfield.

fixed

kappys
12-20-2009, 09:54 PM
One issue is that there is no strong point of the line to run too anymore.

Last year we could at least run it towards Clady and Hamilton - but now Hamilton and Weigman stink which means running it that way fails because the A gap is wide open. Hochstein is at least an improvement over Hamilton but really a solid backup whose main value is his versatility to play multiple positions.

So this year we were able to run it towards Kuper and Harris but now Harris is out so we have Polumbus who simply isn't ready to play at this level IMO. I though he seemed to be improving over the last few games but he laid a turd out there today.

Really I think we have to focus on getting a good LG and solid C and hoping that Harris can come back healthy. Depth would be a nice luxury but better to get the starting unit settled first.

strafen
12-20-2009, 09:56 PM
Jordan has very good hands. He had 500 yards receiving in 05. He's well-known as a guy who can catch the ball out of the backfield.

Do you know how many catches he had back in his college days?
That is also a relevant point. :rofl:

Popps
12-27-2009, 02:49 PM
This line is just a disaster.

Philly is in drop coverage not rushing anyone on the last two plays of the half, and our guys still can't even get in their way.

We need major changes to this line this off-season. It's just a mess.

We are just manhandled one every play.

TonyR
12-27-2009, 02:54 PM
Simms has noted at least twice the Eagles getting pressure with a 3 man rush.

Popps
12-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Simms has noted at least twice the Eagles getting pressure with a 3 man rush.

Those last two plays of the half were an embarrassment. We just can't block anyone man to man. Outside of Clady, our guys just get tossed aside.

In fact, I think Enberg even used that word on one of Philly's sacks. (That our lineman was "tossed aside.")

Oh well. At least it's a glaring problem, at this point. There shouldn't be an question on what we address this off-season.

colonelbeef
12-27-2009, 03:06 PM
spin away poops

Popps
12-27-2009, 03:09 PM
spin away poops

Sorry, Colon-beef?

Spin?

Since when is criticizing our talent-level "spinning?"

bloodsunday
12-27-2009, 03:10 PM
Polumbus is getting mauled.

Popps
12-27-2009, 03:13 PM
Polumbus is getting mauled.

Rewind and watch the Moreno run left. There were literally 3 guys back in the backfield before our linemen had even engaged them. It's bizarre.

misturanderson
12-27-2009, 03:20 PM
We may need a new O-line coach as well that has had more than 1 year of success coaching a scheme we no longer use.

colonelbeef
12-27-2009, 03:36 PM
Sorry, Colon-beef?

Spin?

Since when is criticizing our talent-level "spinning?"

You have found your little scapegoat, Poops

now blame everything on the single best unit from last year, it's entertaining to watch you contort to defend your girlfriend Kyle Orton

misturanderson
12-27-2009, 03:40 PM
You have found your little scapegoat, Poops

now blame everything on the single best unit from last year, it's entertaining to watch you contort to defend your girlfriend Kyle Orton

Who cares if they were good last year? They have played like **** since the bye. How you blame their inability to run block on Orton is beyond me.

Popps
12-27-2009, 03:44 PM
You have found your little scapegoat, Poops

now blame everything on the single best unit from last year, it's entertaining to watch you contort to defend your girlfriend Kyle Orton

Colon-beef, if you're going to try to make funny smack-talk, at least get it right. I've never said anything remotely definitive about Orton. I like the guy, but have also said from early on that he may not be a long-term answer.

Try to keep up, boss. At least make this intereseting.

Popps
12-27-2009, 03:44 PM
Who cares if they were good last year? They have played like **** since the bye. How you blame their inability to run block on Orton is beyond me.

There are defenders that look like they could take the handoff before our RBs. It's freaky.

Popps
12-27-2009, 04:52 PM
Just a brutal day for the line.

Horrible blocking all day, and 3 game-****ing penalties at crucial times.

That last penalty by Kuper was just unforgivable.

Oh well. Great team effort but you can't win when your O-line simply can't do its job.

ScottXray
12-27-2009, 05:03 PM
We can panic about everything else, but this game was lost on the offensive line.

It is what it is. We've got major weaknesses on the interior line and we are getting pushed around up front. We can't convert short-yardage and it's got nothing to do with the back. We've got major line troubles that seem to be getting worse every week.

Nothing we can do but play the season out and hope for the best. I still think the team played with a lot of heart today.

But, we've got a major talent problem up front, outside of Clady... and teams have figured it out.

That should be a primary off-season focus.

QFT. Work on the line...get some friggin road graders to accompany Clady and Harris..QB is adequate if we could run at all in short yardage.

TonyR
12-27-2009, 05:04 PM
Oh well. Great team effort but you can't win when your O-line simply can't do its job.

Other than the "slow start" by the defense you can pin much of the blame on the O-line. This O-line can't run block and is allowing more pressure and sacks as the season goes on.

broncogary
12-27-2009, 05:04 PM
spin away poops

Yep, it's McD's and Moreno's fault. I can see the blame on McD for not having a bette o-line, but I can't blame it on Moreno. At least these guys didn't fold like the cheap suit Shanny fielded the last two seasons.

Requiem
12-27-2009, 05:06 PM
I am not against the Broncos using the Chicago pick on a top flight OT from college. kicking Harris (or that guy) inside. It wouldn't be maximum value, but our line is ****ing terrible. Christ, they play like BF7 plays with baby boy weiner.

mhgaffney
12-27-2009, 05:09 PM
QFT. Work on the line...get some friggin road graders to accompany Clady and Harris..QB is adequate if we could run at all in short yardage.

Let's look at Orrton's strengths and weaknesses. You decide.

strengths:
few interceptions
stable mentally
players like him

weaknesses
can't throw accurate long ball
can't lead WRs
can't stand in there under pressure and make the play
statue in the pocket
can't scramble
needs perfect pass protection to make a play

snowspot66
12-27-2009, 05:14 PM
You have found your little scapegoat, Poops

now blame everything on the single best unit from last year, it's entertaining to watch you contort to defend your girlfriend Kyle Orton

I see Orton hitting the guy he's supposed to hit 63% of the time even without the blocking Cutler got last year. The run blocking was **** for both of them.

What I don't see is somebody ****ing blocking. You guys go "Orton has to have it perfect to score". Well that's bull****. Orton has to have five to seven guys in front of him doing their ****ing jobs just competently to score. Do you see that? I don't.

Orton's doing his job and doing it pretty well. Maybe if he had a little more consistent protection we could throw a little deeper? Maybe if he had a little better protection we could run at will like we used to? For ****s sakes how many guys have been hit in the backfield this year? Every ****ing game. Except for the Chiefs game we have not dominated a line of scrimmage the entire year.

Orton's not going to the Hall of Fame but he's not this teams problem.

Popp's was right about the defensive line. I would have thought everybody would have learned their lesson there. You win on the line.

We can't. Therefore we lose.

mhgaffney
12-27-2009, 05:21 PM
snow, the stats prove you wrong.

Why did Royal have a sophomore slump? Ans - Cause Orton can't thow an accurate ball. No quick release. Can't find the open man.

Why so few TDs to receivers OTHER than Marshall? Ans - Cause of Orton's limited ability. Marshall is a huge target -- snags a lot of balls -- and makes YAC. Marshall makes Orton look better than he is.

Why so few passes to other receivers?

snowspot66
12-27-2009, 05:22 PM
Let's look at Orrton's strengths and weaknesses. You decide.

strengths:
few interceptions
stable mentally
players like him

weaknesses
can't throw accurate long ball

Why does this keep getting thrown out there? Cutler was worse at throwing accurate long balls than Orton. When Orton throws it guys at least have a chance to make a play.

can't lead WRs

Does it well enough. You're nitpicking just to have something negative to say about him.

can't stand in there under pressure and make the play

How many QB's can make a play when they get hit? Better yet. How many QB's can make a good play and not **** up when getting hit? Pressure or not he gets the throw off just fine as long as nobody blows up the blocking and lays hands on him. Or do you want a QB just throwing the ****ing thing around and making just as many horrible plays as good ones like Favre these past few years?

statue in the pocket
can't scramble

Yep. But he's not the first and won't be the last. It's not part of his game. Rothlisberger is the only "scrambling" QB playing that has a ring and he takes a **** load of sacks and makes more than his share of bad plays. Damn near cost them the game today against Baltimore.

needs perfect pass protection to make a play

Nonsense. He just needs them to do their ****ing job. Which they aren't. No QB in the league is successful unless they do get good pass protection. You want to tell me Orton has had good pass protection?

In bold.

houghtam
12-27-2009, 05:24 PM
Did Marshall make Cutler look better than he is, too?

I agree with Poops. Oline is terrible. Weigmann and Hamilton are old and frail, Hochstein is young and frail, and Kuper's getting tossed around like a little girl. Polumbus is playing like a backup (well, that's what he is), and Clady looks like he's getting tired of being the only bright spot.

Outside of LT, our entire line needs to be upgraded next season.

snowspot66
12-27-2009, 05:25 PM
snow, the stats prove you wrong.

Why did Royal have a sophomore slump? Ans - Cause Orton can't thow an accurate ball. No quick release. Can't find the open man.

Why so few TDs to receivers OTHER than Marshall? Ans - Cause of Orton's limited ability. Marshall is a huge target -- snags a lot of balls -- and makes YAC. Marshall makes Orton look better than he is.

Why so few passes to other receivers?

Because Marshall is almost always open (and the number one read) and they aren't? It's really that simple. If they aren't the number one or two reads he doesn't have a whole hell of a lot of time to hit them now does he?

If Orton isn't doing his job then tell me how he can be putting up similar % stats (and fewer INT's) to Cutler last year who consistently had pass blocking giving him all ****ing day to throw. Our line has seriously regressed. The middle is older and still too small and the competition is SIGNIFICANTLY better.

TonyR
12-27-2009, 05:58 PM
Our line has seriously regressed. The middle is older and still too small and the competition is SIGNIFICANTLY better.

Yep, and missing Harris for so many games didn't help a lot either.

Popps
12-28-2009, 09:46 AM
■ Penalties: Somebody on the Eagles needs to send the Broncos offensive line — and Sunday’s officiating crew — some thank you cards. The Broncos were called for two holding penalties late that helped set up the Eagles’ dramatic
win.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/92/2009/december/28/eagles-broncos-highs-and-lows.html

fontaine
12-28-2009, 11:12 AM
It's also the OL's fault that Buckhalter looks twice the RB than Moreno every time he's on the field.

Popps
12-28-2009, 11:22 AM
It's also the OL's fault that Buckhalter looks twice the RB than Moreno every time he's on the field.

Buck was certainly a smart pick-up, no question. He's much more of a darter and a great compliment to a more plodding back. But, as you see... he's not a guy that can stay healthy with any kind of workload.

Along with the line improvements, I think we've got to try to find a deal on a complimentary back for Moreno, maybe in the middle rounds.

Moreno is going to be a good workhorse back for this offense when the blocking scheme (and quality) comes together. In the games we've won, he's been instrumental. But, I definitely think he's a back that's going to work better in a tandem. (Like Marion Barber, etc.)

Requiem
12-28-2009, 12:27 PM
Buckhalter isn't a long-term answer here. Denver will need to pick up another back to pair with Moreno.

Popps
12-28-2009, 12:45 PM
Buckhalter isn't a long-term answer here. Denver will need to pick up another back to pair with Moreno.

We need to find the next Steve Slaton... 3rd round speed-burner that flew under the radar a bit.

Requiem
12-28-2009, 01:12 PM
We need to find the next Steve Slaton... 3rd round speed-burner that flew under the radar a bit.

C.J. Spiller is one of my favorite prospects, and has been for a long time. I thought he would have came out last year and I was pulled on him and Moreno. I know that people will shoot their animals in the head if we take him with our pick, but he is an absolute monster as a pass catcher, runner and returner. He adds help to three dimensions of our team that could use a boost. Problem is, he's a top fifteen talent.

Outside that, there aren't many great burners at RB in this draft. Michael Smith from Arkansas comes to mind, 4.4 speed -- and can run effectively and catch the ball too. He'd be a good mid-round option.

Beantown Bronco
12-28-2009, 01:14 PM
C.J. Spiller is one of my favorite prospects, and has been for a long time.

Unless he can pass for at least 250 yards a game, I don't want him. :approve:

Requiem
12-28-2009, 01:15 PM
Unless he can pass for at least 250 yards a game, I don't want him. :approve:

I understand your thoughts Beantown, but I don't know if the Broncos will have the opportunity to get a top flight QB in Denver with their pick. I think Denver is going to have a great chance at getting phenomenal value at a bunch of other positions. I'd like a great QB too, but. . . just doesn't seem to be there.

misturanderson
12-28-2009, 01:53 PM
I understand your thoughts Beantown, but I don't know if the Broncos will have the opportunity to get a top flight QB in Denver with their pick. I think Denver is going to have a great chance at getting phenomenal value at a bunch of other positions. I'd like a great QB too, but. . . just doesn't seem to be there.

He was joking.

As for some other fast backs that could be had later in the draft, Joe McKnight from USC and Noel Devine from WV are two guys I would love to take a look at.

I want to see a C or G taken in either the 1st (unlikely) or 2nd round though. That would improve our running game more than any RB in the draft possibly could.

uplink
12-28-2009, 05:24 PM
I guess the Oline didn't take to McDs offense, was the teams strength last year and its worst unit this year. I wonder if McD wanted to blow up the line and coaches before the season but was talked out of it by the organization?

Popps
12-28-2009, 06:18 PM
I guess the Oline didn't take to McDs offense, was the teams strength last year and its worst unit this year. I wonder if McD wanted to blow up the line and coaches before the season but was talked out of it by the organization?

Again, this isn't the same line we ran last year. Our 2nd best linemen is out for the season, we're running two different guards and our center is a year older, and looking it.

50% of this line is manned by different personnel.

Clady is still playing great.

Other than that, it's not remotely the same line, and yes... we're running a different system.

KipCorrington25
12-28-2009, 06:44 PM
Let's look at Orrton's strengths and weaknesses. You decide.

strengths:
few interceptions
stable mentally
players like him

weaknesses
can't throw accurate long ball
can't lead WRs
can't stand in there under pressure and make the play
statue in the pocket
can't scramble
needs perfect pass protection to make a play

And Fred Rogers has 2 of those 3 strengths so why isn't he our QB? :spit: