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View Full Version : Alphonso Smith is horrible!


Denver724
12-20-2009, 05:28 PM
If he wasn't a 2010 1st round pick he would be down the road kicking rocks. The guy sucks and needs to go. I can't believe we lost this game. We are going to get worked next week by Philly.

Denver724
12-20-2009, 05:35 PM
And get rid of Woodyard while were at it. He sucks too.

TheReverend
12-20-2009, 05:42 PM
If he wasn't a 2010 1st round pick he would be down the road kicking rocks. The guy sucks and needs to go. I can't believe we lost this game. We are going to get worked next week by Philly.

Alphonso had Schillens wrapped up on the game winner... and the midget got shrugged off no problem.

Denver724
12-20-2009, 06:00 PM
Just a joke. And if we don't make the post season our pick will be top 20.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 06:06 PM
Alphonso had Schillens wrapped up on the game winner... and the midget got shrugged off no problem.

The problem is that they ran a pick route on that play, and by the time Smith got around it the pass had been caught and he basically had no choice but to make a dive for the legs. From what I saw, it looks like Woodyard was sitting in the zone and didn't get deep enough to prevent that.

bpc
12-20-2009, 06:08 PM
WAIT WAIT WAIT... he was one of 30 names on McD's draft board of arrogance. There is no way he could suck. I mean, it doesn't matter that Tony Carter was signed mid-week and was handed a playbook on Friday, and was getting more significant minutes already....

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 06:11 PM
WAIT WAIT WAIT... he was one of 30 names on McD's draft board of arrogance. There is no way he could suck. I mean, it doesn't matter that Tony Carter was signed mid-week and was handed a playbook on Friday, and was getting more significant minutes already....

Why don't you go suck Cutler's cock.

Denver724
12-20-2009, 06:15 PM
WAIT WAIT WAIT... he was one of 30 names on McD's draft board of arrogance. There is no way he could suck. I mean, it doesn't matter that Tony Carter was signed mid-week and was handed a playbook on Friday, and was getting more significant minutes already....

And I thought Carter played well. We drafted a midget with a our top 20 pick and got one for free (no pick). Just a bad decision. We probably could have gotten McLain AND MT. Cody with our picks.

oubronco
12-20-2009, 06:17 PM
Why don't you go suck Cutler's cock.

:rofl::rofl:

UberBroncoMan
12-20-2009, 06:35 PM
WAIT WAIT WAIT... he was one of 30 names on McD's draft board of arrogance. There is no way he could suck. I mean, it doesn't matter that Tony Carter was signed mid-week and was handed a playbook on Friday, and was getting more significant minutes already....

To be fair bpc... Tony Carter was on our practice squad. He was already well immersed in our defense.

I'm happy with what I saw out of him though... I saw more positives out of him today than Smith all season.

Kind of depressing.

Traveler
12-20-2009, 06:36 PM
The problem is that they ran a pick route on that play, and by the time Smith got around it the pass had been caught and he basically had no choice but to make a dive for the legs. From what I saw, it looks like Woodyard was sitting in the zone and didn't get deep enough to prevent that.

I saw that too. It was not Smith's lack of coverage. He got picked. Hate that we lost this game, but this loss should be laid at the feet of the OL & DL.

gyldenlove
12-20-2009, 06:39 PM
I saw that too. It was not Smith's lack of coverage. He got picked. Hate that we lost this game, but this loss should be laid at the feet of the OL & DL.

It was Smiths ****ty tackling no matter how you spin it.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 06:46 PM
It was Smiths ****ty tackling no matter how you spin it.

Sorry, that's just not the case.

Traveler
12-20-2009, 06:50 PM
It was Smiths ****ty tackling no matter how you spin it.

Watch the play. Too much ground for Smith to make up after the pick in such a short area.

We lost this game because we couldn''t score touchdowns when we got in the red zone. Instead, we only scored FG's.

UberBroncoMan
12-20-2009, 06:51 PM
Watch the play. Too much ground for Smith to make up after the pick in such a short area.

We lost this game because we couldn''t score touchdowns when we got in the red zone. Instead, we only scored FG's.

We also lost the game because we kicked a FG instead of going for it on 4th and 1.

We miss and they need to drive 99 yards to win or TIE with a FG (meaning we don't lose and we get the ball back or it's OT).

We get the TD there??? WE WIN THE GAME.

Kicking the FG there was the stupidest move in the ENTIRE GAME.

Denver724
12-20-2009, 06:52 PM
Watch the play. Too much ground for Smith to make up after the pick in such a short area.

We lost this game because we couldn''t score touchdowns when we got in the red zone. Instead, we only scored FG's.

And that has been happening most of the season.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 06:52 PM
Sorry, that's just not the case.

He was shrugged off no problem... why you're trying to argue that, I don't know. Are you saying he wasn't in position to make a tackle at the 3?

The bigger issue was Woodyard. 4th and 10 and he gets beat for 11. Then promptly gives up another 7 and then a Defensive Holding penalty to put them at the 5 with time stopped. I feel bad for Vonnie Holiday, he gave a great effort today for not.

This team was not prepared to win today and as much as I like Josh McD and think this team is moving in the right direction, today he lost this game. Poor preparation. Poor showing by the team on offense and even worse on defense. Pears was clearing holes for ****'s sake. The Faid ran for 250 yards today. The Faid had their 3rd string QB in and we were playing for the pass and letting them run pretty much all over us.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 06:58 PM
He was shrugged off no problem... why you're trying to argue that, I don't know. Are you saying he wasn't in position to make a tackle at the 3? He wasn't "shrugged off" for the simple fact that he had to make a desperation dive at the guy's feet. Could have made the tackle? Yes, in theory, but you're acting like he had an easy shot and blew the tackle, which is not what happened.

scttgrd
12-20-2009, 07:05 PM
He wasn't "shrugged off" for the simple fact that he had to make a desperation dive at the guy's feet. Could have made the tackle? Yes, in theory, but you're acting like he had an easy shot and blew the tackle, which is not what happened.

Go suck Smiths cock.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 07:06 PM
Go suck Smiths cock.

I've heard Jay Cutler's is much more popular, despite his epic suckage.

scttgrd
12-20-2009, 07:10 PM
I've heard Jay Cutler's is much more popular, despite his epic suckage.

I heard you are more prone to the kneeling position, with all that experience.

mhgaffney
12-20-2009, 07:15 PM
No question -- Alphonso missed the tackle.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-20-2009, 07:15 PM
Just a joke. And if we don't make the post season our pick will be top 20.

I dontunderstand why people cant grasp this. Bowlen.Does.Not.Want.To.Pay.Two.First.Round.Picks.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 07:17 PM
I heard you are more prone to the kneeling position, with all that experience.

Pitching or catching?

Denver724
12-20-2009, 07:19 PM
I dontunderstand why people cant grasp this. Bowlen.Does.Not.Want.To.Pay.Two.First.Round.Picks.

Well I guess he won't want to pay Marshall, Doom, Kuper or Orton either. A #1 pick in the late teens is not that much in the big scheme of things.

scttgrd
12-20-2009, 07:23 PM
Pitching or catching?

I heard you see a badge and the saliva starts flowing. No need to be ashamed of who you are, it takes all kinds in this world. Bend over like usual and enjoy!

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 07:24 PM
I heard you see a badge and the saliva starts flowing. No need to be ashamed of who you are, it takes all kinds in this world. Bend over like usual and enjoy!

So your answer would be catching?

Broncomutt
12-20-2009, 07:27 PM
I don't blame Smith for this loss, but he hasn't done anything positive for this team all year. I know he's a rookie and I'm willing to give him another season but WOW he has been full of suck.

Just because he's a rookie doesn't mean he shouldn't be contributing something to the team.

scttgrd
12-20-2009, 07:32 PM
So your answer would be catching?

If you could cure your genuflect it might be a concern, but I guess it will happen right after the cure for cancer.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 07:38 PM
If you could cure your genuflect it might be a concern, but I guess it will happen right after the cure for cancer.

Is that a yes?

scttgrd
12-20-2009, 07:43 PM
Is that a yes?

Are you still talking with your mouth full, didn't your mother teach you better than that?

gyldenlove
12-20-2009, 07:46 PM
He wasn't "shrugged off" for the simple fact that he had to make a desperation dive at the guy's feet. Could have made the tackle? Yes, in theory, but you're acting like he had an easy shot and blew the tackle, which is not what happened.

So defensive players only have to make tackles when they can square up perfectly on the reciever? He was in position to wrap him up and bring him down, unfortunately Smith tackles like a girl (not the first time has whiffed big time).

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 08:03 PM
Are you still talking with your mouth full, didn't your mother teach you better than that?

Yep, talking with my mouth full on an internet forum. I knew you'd **** up sooner or later.

http://www.ghettowebmaster.com/images/epic-fail.jpg

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 08:05 PM
So defensive players only have to make tackles when they can square up perfectly on the reciever? He was in position to wrap him up and bring him down, unfortunately Smith tackles like a girl (not the first time has whiffed big time).

No, but when a 6-4 225 receiver breaks the tackle of a 5'9 cornerback who is making a desperate dive at his legs, how much blame can you honestly lay on the corner?

Denver724
12-20-2009, 08:08 PM
No, but when a 6-4 225 receiver breaks the tackle of a 5'9 cornerback who is making a desperate dive at his legs, how much blame can you honestly lay on the corner?

I lay it on the head coach of the team who decided to draft a 5'9 corner in a division that has many 6'4" 220+ receivers. Not a well crafted plan in my opinion (and traded a top 20 pick to get him).

scttgrd
12-20-2009, 08:09 PM
Yep, talking with my mouth full on an internet forum. I knew you'd **** up sooner or later.

http://www.ghettowebmaster.com/images/epic-fail.jpg

You need to be very quiet, I realize I am in a war of words with an unarmed opponent.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 08:10 PM
I lay it on the head coach of the team who decided to draft a 5'9 corner in a division that has many 6'4" 220+ receivers. Not a well crafted plan in my opinion (and traded a top 20 pick to get him).

I'm not going to get into another debate regarding the merits of drafting Smith, but I'll remind you that many corners that size have had long and successful careers in this league.

Denver724
12-20-2009, 08:56 PM
I'm not going to get into another debate regarding the merits of drafting Smith, but I'll remind you that many corners that size have had long and successful careers in this league.

Maybe so, but I don't see Mr. Smith EVER being part of that group.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 09:02 PM
Maybe so, but I don't see Mr. Smith EVER being part of that group.

Because of an injury plagued rookie year where he's been behind the likes of Champ Bailey, Andre Goodman and Ty Law?

gyldenlove
12-20-2009, 09:02 PM
No, but when a 6-4 225 receiver breaks the tackle of a 5'9 cornerback who is making a desperate dive at his legs, how much blame can you honestly lay on the corner?

That is his job, if he can't do it he should hand back the millions of dollars that Mr Bowlen has paid him to do just that. In fact that is hit only job, if a mechanic can't fix my car I am not going to pay him since he is useless, if a cornerback can't tackle a reciever he shouldn't be paid since he is useless.

gyldenlove
12-20-2009, 09:04 PM
Because of an injury plagued rookie year where he's been behind the likes of Champ Bailey, Andre Goodman and Ty Law?

Because he is so good at his job we could find a 35 year old player who couldn't get another job who is better and we could pull a player from our practice squad, a player any other team could have signed who can do better. Face facts buddy, Smith has done nothing be regress since day 1.

Ambiguous
12-20-2009, 09:04 PM
I'm not going to get into another debate regarding the merits of drafting Smith, but I'll remind you that many corners that size have had long and successful careers in this league.

Awesome. We can all rest now, because now we know that it's possible for him to perform, but he still sucks.

He didn't just miss a tackle, he got manhandled because he was too small, and it cost us the game. There's nothing anyone could have done about that except keep him off the field.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 09:08 PM
I dontunderstand why people cant grasp this. Bowlen.Does.Not.Want.To.Pay.Two.First.Round.Picks.

And yet he JUST DID???

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 09:10 PM
I'm not going to get into another debate regarding the merits of drafting Smith, but I'll remind you that many corners that size have had long and successful careers in this league.

Name one that ran a 4.55???

Hercules Rockefeller
12-20-2009, 09:11 PM
And yet he JUST DID???

2008- 0 significant Bronco free agents

2009- Marshall, Dumervil, Kuper, Orton, and Scheffler

2 of those guys are going to get huge bonuses, Orton probably will too and this board will melt down.

There is obviously 0 difference between signing 2 1st round picks this year and 2 1st round picks next year.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 09:12 PM
Because of an injury plagued rookie year where he's been behind the likes of Champ Bailey, Andre Goodman and Ty Law?

Better add rookie free agent Carter to that list.. oh and Jack Williams until he was cut.

I'm pretty concerned with Alphonso Smith. A smallish corner with 4.5 speed isn't exactly the recipe for success in the NFL. He is a zone coverage guy and we're projecting him to the slot... BRILLIANT.

TheReverend
12-20-2009, 09:15 PM
I'm just gonna lay this link down so we can quell any nonsense about excuses for Smith on this play.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81520b8b/Russell-wins-it

There is NO excuse.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 09:20 PM
2008- 0 significant Bronco free agents

2009- Marshall, Dumervil, Kuper, Orton, and Scheffler

2 of those guys are going to get huge bonuses, Orton probably will too and this board will melt down.

There is obviously 0 difference between signing 2 1st round picks this year and 2 1st round picks next year.

We have $60m obligated next year. Most likely restructures for Graham and Champ not included. That means Pat Bowlen can pay up to $55m next year... plus whatever we gain with the restructures.

Orton- $6m per year (and that's being very generous)
BMarsh- $11m per year (if we pay him, but can't trade him for a 1st right)
Doom- $8m per year (again, if we pay him)
Kuper- $5m per year (doubtful at this point I'd say)
Scheff- $4m per year (again doubtful we keep him)

So you have $34m to keep our big name free agents. Figure another $5 or 6m per for guys that aren't named. That's $40m. Two first round picks will avg probably around $4m per year. That's $48m. You still have $7-10m (plus whatever we get from the restructures) to go and that's just to get to the $110-115m that it was at this year. $10m per year likely clears enough room to get a Wilfork type FA... if we were to go that route.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 09:20 PM
Better add rookie free agent Carter to that list.. oh and Jack Williams until he was cut. Carter played pretty damn good today, and Jack Williams...yeah well he was cut and Smith is still here.

I'm pretty concerned with Alphonso Smith. A smallish corner with 4.5 speed isn't exactly the recipe for success in the NFL. He is a zone coverage guy and we're projecting him to the slot... BRILLIANT. While I agree that his rookie campaign hasn't been super encouraging, we've also seen some pretty good play out of him and we have a very capable coaching staff that will be working with him.

Who knows if he puts it together or not, but it's not even close to time to hit the panic bottom.

TheReverend
12-20-2009, 09:25 PM
Carter played pretty damn good today, and Jack Williams...yeah well he was cut and Smith is still here.


Is this a serious statement or are you spinning away from the obvious:

1. If Smith gets cut instead of Williams, it's a SIGNIFICANTLY larger cap hit.

2. If Smith gets cut instead of Williams, the heavily criticized FO looks very stupid for trading a first round pick for him.

Cutting Smith simply isn't an option. Same reason Jarvis Moss is still on the roster.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 09:27 PM
Carter played great today... very encouraging, the problem is we didn't give up a first round draft pick or draft him in the 2nd round. Are you missing the point???

The panic button should be pressed now when you have an UDFA Rookie playing in front of him that was just brought off the PS. And the reason that Williams was cut instead of Smith is b/c one is a McD pick that he gave up a lot to get.

bpc
12-20-2009, 09:27 PM
Carter played pretty damn good today, and Jack Williams...yeah well he was cut and Smith is still here.

While I agree that his rookie campaign hasn't been super encouraging, we've also seen some pretty good play out of him and we have a very capable coaching staff that will be working with him.

Who knows if he puts it together or not, but it's not even close to time to hit the panic bottom.

Uh, what plays are you talking about? His many INT's he's scored this year? 0.

His tackles? 13 total? He's notched a tackle a game. Awesome.

How about his pass deflections. A total of 3.

This season has been a failure for him but hopefully the future is better for the 4.55 midget CB we reached for during last years draft. Sure glad we don't have two first round picks this season. That would be DEVASTATING. Plus, there is nobody we could find better than him. :clown:

Hercules Rockefeller
12-20-2009, 09:30 PM
We have $60m obligated next year. Most likely restructures for Graham and Champ not included. That means Pat Bowlen can pay up to $55m next year... plus whatever we gain with the restructures.

Orton- $6m per year (and that's being very generous)
BMarsh- $11m per year (if we pay him, but can't trade him for a 1st right)
Doom- $8m per year (again, if we pay him)
Kuper- $5m per year (doubtful at this point I'd say)
Scheff- $4m per year (again doubtful we keep him)

So you have $34m to keep our big name free agents. Figure another $5 or 6m per for guys that aren't named. That's $40m. Two first round picks will avg probably around $4m per year. That's $48m. You still have $7-10m (plus whatever we get from the restructures) to go and that's just to get to the $110-115m that it was at this year. $10m per year likely clears enough room to get a Wilfork type FA... if we were to go that route.

We're not talking about a per year average, we're talking about cash money that Bowlen has to fork out upfront.

Marshall- Roddy White received $18M guaranteed this last summer, Marshall will get more
Orton- no one should fool themselves on this, Cassel's contract is the bar ($10.5M per year, $28M guaranteed). They signed Orton long-term, he's getting $20-25M guaranteed at a minimum.
Dumervil- he's not getting Demarcus Ware money (40M guaranteed), but he's getting at least $15-20M

Bowlen is probably going to have to write checks for at least $50M between those 3 for next season. That doesn't even include 2 new deals for the other 2 RFAs, a new deal for Bailey, any free agents, or the cost of signing their Top 10 pick.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 09:48 PM
Is this a serious statement or are you spinning away from the obvious:

1. If Smith gets cut instead of Williams, it's a SIGNIFICANTLY larger cap hit.

2. If Smith gets cut instead of Williams, the heavily criticized FO looks very stupid for trading a first round pick for him.

Cutting Smith simply isn't an option. Same reason Jarvis Moss is still on the roster.

I agree, somewhat. My main contention with this is that if Williams was really that good he would still be here. Also, Smith has been getting consistent playing time which he wouldn't be getting if the coaching staff didn't feel he was earning it.

Carter played great today... very encouraging, the problem is we didn't give up a first round draft pick or draft him in the 2nd round. Are you missing the point??? Who cares? Carter played great, and that makes me happy.

The panic button should be pressed now when you have an UDFA Rookie playing in front of him that was just brought off the PS. And the reason that Williams was cut instead of Smith is b/c one is a McD pick that he gave up a lot to get. Is Carter playing in front of him? I only saw them both in on a few plays

epicSocialism4tw
12-20-2009, 09:48 PM
Uh, what plays are you talking about? His many INT's he's scored this year? 0.

His tackles? 13 total? He's notched a tackle a game. Awesome.

How about his pass deflections. A total of 3.

This season has been a failure for him but hopefully the future is better for the 4.55 midget CB we reached for during last years draft. Sure glad we don't have two first round picks this season. That would be DEVASTATING. Plus, there is nobody we could find better than him. :clown:

Some of these people (like the crooked cop who tries to intimidate people on this board like he's out on his weekly yokel beat) absolutely refuse to aknowledge that McD could have made a mistake, when its as plain as day that he made a terrible mistake.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-20-2009, 09:56 PM
Some of these people (like the crooked cop who tries to intimidate people on this board like he's out on his weekly yokel beat) absolutely refuse to aknowledge that McD could have made a mistake, when its as plain as day that he made a terrible mistake.

Not everyone also screams bust before someone's rookie season is even over.

Could a mistake have been made? Possibly.
Is a rookie a bust 13 games into his first season? No.

epicSocialism4tw
12-20-2009, 09:58 PM
Not everyone also screams bust before someone's rookie season is even over.

Could a mistake have been made? Possibly.
Is a rookie a bust 13 games into his first season? No.

I agree, but is he worth a first round pick?

Its pretty hard to say that he is at this point.

What further cements the mistake in my mind is that McD didnt put in the work to scout the draft. Which leads me to believe that he didnt have his mind around this upcoming draft either.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 09:58 PM
Not everyone also screams bust before someone's rookie season is even over.

Could a mistake have been made? Possibly.
Is a rookie a bust 13 games into his first season? No.

Exactly. That's all I'm saying.

epicSocialism4tw
12-20-2009, 10:00 PM
Exactly. That's all I'm saying.

I dont think you need to say it any more.

Lolad
12-20-2009, 10:03 PM
Not everyone also screams bust before someone's rookie season is even over.

Could a mistake have been made? Possibly.
Is a rookie a bust 13 games into his first season? No.

I don't think you can call him a bust. But he is a 1st round draft pick they are supposed to be ready to play DAY 1! I think he showed flashes the 1st 2 games. Since then he's been trash.

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 10:06 PM
he is a 1st round draft pick they are supposed to be ready to play DAY 1!

Smith is a 2nd rounder, not a 1st.

epicSocialism4tw
12-20-2009, 10:09 PM
Smith is a 2nd rounder, not a 1st.

No. He cost a first rounder.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:16 PM
We're not talking about a per year average, we're talking about cash money that Bowlen has to fork out upfront.

Marshall- Roddy White received $18M guaranteed this last summer, Marshall will get more
Orton- no one should fool themselves on this, Cassel's contract is the bar ($10.5M per year, $28M guaranteed). They signed Orton long-term, he's getting $20-25M guaranteed at a minimum.
Dumervil- he's not getting Demarcus Ware money (40M guaranteed), but he's getting at least $15-20M

Bowlen is probably going to have to write checks for at least $50M between those 3 for next season. That doesn't even include 2 new deals for the other 2 RFAs, a new deal for Bailey, any free agents, or the cost of signing their Top 10 pick.

But money isn't an issue for Bowlen you said???

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 10:17 PM
No. He cost a first rounder.

I don't give a **** what he cost, it doesn't change the fact he was a 2nd round pick.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:18 PM
Not everyone also screams bust before someone's rookie season is even over.

Could a mistake have been made? Possibly.
Is a rookie a bust 13 games into his first season? No.

In camp he looked pretty damn good. In fact, he looked like he would be the most promising rookie in the class. What baffles me is why isn't he getting time on the field. Ty Law moved in front of him. Then Carter. What gives with Smith during practices?

Denver724
12-20-2009, 10:18 PM
No. He cost a first rounder.

Which means McD considered him a 1st.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-20-2009, 10:22 PM
But money isn't an issue for Bowlen you said???

Most offseasons? Absolutely money isn't going to be an issue for him.

This offseason? How many owners do you think could shell out $50-60M in just guaranteed money and not blink an eye? Jones, Snyder, and Paul Allen for sure, and maybe the Glazers. Pat's going to have to write much larger checks than usual this offseason.

epicSocialism4tw
12-20-2009, 10:26 PM
I don't give a **** what he cost, it doesn't change the fact he was a 2nd round pick.

That's because you are an idiot.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-20-2009, 10:26 PM
In camp he looked pretty damn good. In fact, he looked like he would be the most promising rookie in the class. What baffles me is why isn't he getting time on the field. Ty Law moved in front of him. Then Carter. What gives with Smith during practices?

Simpler schemes? Maybe the mental aspect that appeared to be there in the summer, isn't there yet in actual games?

The Law thing doesn't do anything for me really. Yes, he's old, but he's also a borderline Hall of Famer based on his body of work who is only being asked to be this team's 3rd corner. Law's seen everything and he's replacing a rookie who hasn't at a historically tough position for a rookie to make an impact. This year, that's BFD to me. Next year? That's when there are some red flags that need to be raised.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:29 PM
I don't give a **** what he cost, it doesn't change the fact he was a 2nd round pick.

He was in fact a 2nd round pick that the Broncos thought very highly of, high enough that they traded a future first. What has happened to him between then and now? In camp he showed great promise, enough that Raj thought he'd be the man by this point. He was a ballhawking fool in college getting picks by the dozen. Now he has iron skillet hands. Is it simply a guy that was in the perfect scheme in college and riding a 3 year hot streak, or is the game still too fast for him and he needs more time. It's difficult to tell. Here is what I do know, Darius Butler was picked by the Pats after Smith. He is 5'11 and ran a 4.46. The Pats made it known before the draft that they liked him and most projected him to be their first round pick. So far this year Butler has 33 tackles and 2 picks.

Sean Smith for the Dolphins, 6'3 214 lbs. 35 tackles, 11 Pass Defenses. Given the size in the AFC West he would have made a bit more sense.


Look, I like Alphonso Smith. Love his personality and the character he brings. That said, to consider his rookie campaign as anything other than concerning is a stretch. Does that mean he won't pan out... of course not. He could turn it around and be another Darrell Revis, but it's not looking good at this point.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:30 PM
Most offseasons? Absolutely money isn't going to be an issue for him.

This offseason? How many owners do you think could shell out $50-60M in just guaranteed money and not blink an eye? Jones, Snyder, and Paul Allen for sure, and maybe the Glazers. Pat's going to have to write much larger checks than usual this offseason.

How much did he hand out the year we signed Henry and that bunch? I think there was another year that rivaled that as well???

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:32 PM
Simpler schemes? Maybe the mental aspect that appeared to be there in the summer, isn't there yet in actual games?

The Law thing doesn't do anything for me really. Yes, he's old, but he's also a borderline Hall of Famer based on his body of work who is only being asked to be this team's 3rd corner. Law's seen everything and he's replacing a rookie who hasn't at a historically tough position for a rookie to make an impact. This year, that's BFD to me. Next year? That's when there are some red flags that need to be raised.

Would you say that DWill had a better rookie year, both as a CB and a return man?

Florida_Bronco
12-20-2009, 10:35 PM
He was in fact a 2nd round pick that the Broncos thought very highly of, high enough that they traded a future first. What has happened to him between then and now? In camp he showed great promise, enough that Raj thought he'd be the man by this point. He was a ballhawking fool in college getting picks by the dozen. Now he has iron skillet hands. Is it simply a guy that was in the perfect scheme in college and riding a 3 year hot streak, or is the game still too fast for him and he needs more time. It's difficult to tell. Here is what I do know, Darius Butler was picked by the Pats after Smith. He is 5'11 and ran a 4.46. The Pats made it known before the draft that they liked him and most projected him to be their first round pick. So far this year Butler has 33 tackles and 2 picks.

Sean Smith for the Dolphins, 6'3 214 lbs. 35 tackles, 11 Pass Defenses. Given the size in the AFC West he would have made a bit more sense.


Look, I like Alphonso Smith. Love his personality and the character he brings. That said, to consider his rookie campaign as anything other than concerning is a stretch. Does that mean he won't pan out... of course not. He could turn it around and be another Darrell Revis, but it's not looking good at this point.

I don't disagree with any of this.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-20-2009, 10:35 PM
Would you say that DWill had a better rookie year, both as a CB and a return man?

There's not much comparison when one was starting and the other isn't.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-20-2009, 10:38 PM
How much did he hand out the year we signed Henry and that bunch? I think there was another year that rivaled that as well???

IIRC, there were a lot of signings, but I can't remember any signings that offseason that will come anywhere near what Marshall or Dumervil should be in line for. TH's contract was only $12M guaranteed. Rice was only a one-year deal. Graham signed the largest contract and that was only 6-years/$30M.

kappys
12-20-2009, 10:40 PM
He was in fact a 2nd round pick that the Broncos thought very highly of, high enough that they traded a future first. What has happened to him between then and now? In camp he showed great promise, enough that Raj thought he'd be the man by this point. He was a ballhawking fool in college getting picks by the dozen. Now he has iron skillet hands. Is it simply a guy that was in the perfect scheme in college and riding a 3 year hot streak, or is the game still too fast for him and he needs more time. It's difficult to tell. Here is what I do know, Darius Butler was picked by the Pats after Smith. He is 5'11 and ran a 4.46. The Pats made it known before the draft that they liked him and most projected him to be their first round pick. So far this year Butler has 33 tackles and 2 picks.

Sean Smith for the Dolphins, 6'3 214 lbs. 35 tackles, 11 Pass Defenses. Given the size in the AFC West he would have made a bit more sense.


Look, I like Alphonso Smith. Love his personality and the character he brings. That said, to consider his rookie campaign as anything other than concerning is a stretch. Does that mean he won't pan out... of course not. He could turn it around and be another Darrell Revis, but it's not looking good at this point.

The game is a lot faster and its tough to make picks when you're still trying to understand the game mentally. That said everything you've written is accurate. The greatest growth in a player happens during their first offseason. I think next year we'll know what kind of player we really have in Smith.

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 10:43 PM
IIRC, there were a lot of signings, but I can't remember any signings that offseason that will come anywhere near what Marshall or Dumervil should be in line for. TH's contract was only $12M guaranteed. Rice was only a one-year deal. Graham signed the largest contract and that was only 6-years/$30M.

Hmmm, maybe it wasn't that year, but I recall a year in which he hadn't out like $50m in bonuses alone.

skpac1001
12-20-2009, 11:40 PM
Holy crap this is stupid. I realize losing to the Raiders does things to fans minds, but this is stupid.

TheReverend
12-20-2009, 11:59 PM
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1839/alphonsoavy.png

Florida_Bronco
12-21-2009, 12:10 AM
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1839/alphonsoavy.png

Ok, that's funny as ****. Hilarious!

DBroncos4life
12-21-2009, 12:15 AM
I love how Knox is out playing Ayers and Wallace is murdering Quinn. I think the Hawks will draft the ROY next year. :giggle:

Ratboy
12-21-2009, 03:33 AM
Alphonso had Schillens wrapped up on the game winner... and the midget got shrugged off no problem.

Seriously man.

Can we toss this guy in the dumpster? I want my first round pick back.

Ratboy
12-21-2009, 03:36 AM
I don't even care about his size, he has zero toughness to him.

Mr.Meanie
12-21-2009, 08:51 AM
I agree, but is he worth a first round pick?

Its pretty hard to say that he is at this point.

What further cements the mistake in my mind is that McD didnt put in the work to scout the draft. Which leads me to believe that he didnt have his mind around this upcoming draft either.

Wow. Where do you idiots get this crap? If we were to evaluate

Good draft picks:
Moreno (leading rookies)
Ayers (solid player)
McBath (played lights out before IR)
Bruton (special teams ace, flashes at safety)

Jury still out:
Smith (behind veterans)
Olsen (behind veterans)
Brandstater (3rd string)

Bad
Schlueter (cut)

That's a pretty damn good draft. I know everyone here thinks they would have nailed every single pick they spent 6 months mock-drafting and "scouting" via youtube, but the draft is really a crapshoot. Scouts and GMs who get paid millions of dollars per year do really good if they nail just 50% of their picks, and that's exactly McD did last year... BEFORE he even knew what the team deficiencies were.

This year he has a year of coaching under his belt and knows the teams strengths and weaknesses. I expect another solid draft, filling in our holes and creating depth.

By the way, McD nailed 100% in free agency, which is downright incredible considering the number of free agents we brought in. These guys know how to evaluate talent.

watermock
12-21-2009, 09:00 AM
That'a fine. 'cept we had multiple highpicks.

You didn't even mention Quinn.

gyldenlove
12-21-2009, 09:00 AM
Wow. Where do you idiots get this crap? If we were to evaluate

Good draft picks:
Moreno (leading rookies)
Ayers (solid player)
McBath (played lights out before IR)
Bruton (special teams ace, flashes at safety)

Jury still out:
Smith (behind veterans)
Olsen (behind veterans)
Brandstater (3rd string)

Bad
Schlueter (cut)

That's a pretty damn good draft. I know everyone here thinks they would have nailed every single pick they spent 6 months mock-drafting and "scouting" via youtube, but the draft is really a crapshoot. Scouts and GMs who get paid millions of dollars per year do really good if they nail just 50% of their picks, and that's exactly McD did last year... BEFORE he even knew what the team deficiencies were.

This year he has a year of coaching under his belt and knows the teams strengths and weaknesses. I expect another solid draft, filling in our holes and creating depth.

By the way, McD nailed 100% in free agency, which is downright incredible considering the number of free agents we brought in. These guys know how to evaluate talent.

Eh, no.

Moreno, good flashes but has failed utterly from singleback formation, only good games have come running behind Spencer Larsen. Must run more straight ahead, runs laterally too much when he has no lead blocker.

Ayers, a few flashes but has been exposed all year in run defense and has failed to generate pass rush - is so good he was benched in favour of Jarvis Moss. Has to improve his over all game.

Smith, had 2 good games at the beginning of the year as nickel, and was so convincing he lost the nickel role to a 35 year old unemployed player and later a practice squad signee, can't tackle or cover.

Mcbath, backup safety who played well in very limited time and is good on special teams, may be the best pick of the bunch.

Quinn, utter failure, out red zone offense is worse than it was last year, our short yard running is worse and beside his one batted pass on special teams has made no difference at all.

Bruton, good on special teams, wasn't abused yesterday on defense.

Olsen, difficult to say, could be the next Kuper or the next Lichtensteiger.

Brandstater, who knows?

Proven good:
N/A

May be good:
Moreno
Mcbath

Not bad:
Bruton

Bad:
Ayers
Smith
Quinn
Schlueter

Unrated:
Olsen
Brandstater

Right now that draft looks pretty bad.

Ray Finkle
12-21-2009, 09:15 AM
Eh, no.

Moreno, good flashes but has failed utterly from singleback formation, only good games have come running behind Spencer Larsen. Must run more straight ahead, runs laterally too much when he has no lead blocker.

Ayers, a few flashes but has been exposed all year in run defense and has failed to generate pass rush - is so good he was benched in favour of Jarvis Moss. Has to improve his over all game.

Smith, had 2 good games at the beginning of the year as nickel, and was so convincing he lost the nickel role to a 35 year old unemployed player and later a practice squad signee, can't tackle or cover.

Mcbath, backup safety who played well in very limited time and is good on special teams, may be the best pick of the bunch.

Quinn, utter failure, out red zone offense is worse than it was last year, our short yard running is worse and beside his one batted pass on special teams has made no difference at all.

Bruton, good on special teams, wasn't abused yesterday on defense.

Olsen, difficult to say, could be the next Kuper or the next Lichtensteiger.

Brandstater, who knows?

Proven good:
N/A

May be good:
Moreno
Mcbath

Not bad:
Bruton

Bad:
Ayers
Smith
Quinn
Schlueter

Unrated:
Olsen
Brandstater

Right now that draft looks pretty bad.

Smith was playing well until he sprained his ankle is a 1st year CB...give him time.
Ayers was a work in progress where most projected it would take a few years to tap into his potential (Pryce was deactivated and almost traded so spare the line about him not playing a game for Moss).
McBath/Bruton as advertised...good special teams and raw on field.
Olsen-Who knows...
Brandstater-Who Knows
McKinney-skinny WR that hasn't been used much
Moreno-has good tangibles and great balance/vision but fails in short yardage. Is that due to the line?
Quinn-not much to see yet....give him a year.

Mr.Meanie
12-21-2009, 09:20 AM
Eh, no.

Moreno, good flashes but has failed utterly from singleback formation, only good games have come running behind Spencer Larsen. Must run more straight ahead, runs laterally too much when he has no lead blocker.

Ayers, a few flashes but has been exposed all year in run defense and has failed to generate pass rush - is so good he was benched in favour of Jarvis Moss. Has to improve his over all game.

Smith, had 2 good games at the beginning of the year as nickel, and was so convincing he lost the nickel role to a 35 year old unemployed player and later a practice squad signee, can't tackle or cover.

Mcbath, backup safety who played well in very limited time and is good on special teams, may be the best pick of the bunch.

Quinn, utter failure, out red zone offense is worse than it was last year, our short yard running is worse and beside his one batted pass on special teams has made no difference at all.

Bruton, good on special teams, wasn't abused yesterday on defense.

Olsen, difficult to say, could be the next Kuper or the next Lichtensteiger.

Brandstater, who knows?

Proven good:
N/A

May be good:
Moreno
Mcbath

Not bad:
Bruton

Bad:
Ayers
Smith
Quinn
Schlueter

Unrated:
Olsen
Brandstater

Right now that draft looks pretty bad.

Moreno is 13th in the NFL in rushing (behind Frank Gore and Mendenhall who are both primary backs) and has over 1000 yards from scrimmage while splitting carries. How is it even possible to not say he was a good pick?

And to say Ayers has been a bad pick? He's playing a new position and has been getting better every single game. He doesn't rack up stats, but he's collapsing the pocket and is strong on the point of attack. I don't think people understand his role, exactly...

I forgot about Quinn. He plays Graham's role, and there's no chance of him stealing that spot anytime soon. I would still say the jury is out, because we won't see him on the field much with Graham's talent on the field.

Everyone is so quick to call rookies busts when they don't turn into superstars immediately. The jury is still out on Smith because he was injured, and then a backup to solid veterans. If he doesn't start asserting himself next year, maybe... but it's really early to start calling everyone busts.

DBroncos4life
12-21-2009, 09:27 AM
Moreno is 13th in the NFL in rushing (behind Frank Gore and Mendenhall who are both primary backs) and has over 1000 yards from scrimmage while splitting carries. How is it even possible to not say he was a good pick?

And to say Ayers has been a bad pick? He's playing a new position and has been getting better every single game. He doesn't rack up stats, but he's collapsing the pocket and is strong on the point of attack. I don't think people understand his role, exactly...

I forgot about Quinn. He plays Graham's role, and there's no chance of him stealing that spot anytime soon. I would still say the jury is out, because we won't see him on the field much with Graham's talent on the field.

Everyone is so quick to call rookies busts when they don't turn into superstars immediately. The jury is still out on Smith because he was injured, and then a backup to solid veterans. If he doesn't start asserting himself next year, maybe... but it's really early to start calling everyone busts.

Gore has missed time this year with injury (3 games), and Mendenhall has less carries then Moreno. The big difference is YPC. Gore 5.3, Mendenhall, 4.8, and Moreno 3.9. Plays over 20 yards isn't even close Moreno has 2, Gore, 10, Mendenhall has 8.

Moreno isn't a bust but he isn't as explosive as you would like from a first round pick.

Requiem
12-21-2009, 10:28 AM
Moreno is asked a bulk of the time to go up the middle. Not a problem. It becomes a problem when your LG and C (and even RG) are on their ass one second after the snap and swarm of defenders is in your backfield.

tdfan
12-21-2009, 11:07 AM
[QUOTE=Broncoman13;2684147]We have $60m obligated next year. Most likely restructures for Graham and Champ not included. That means Pat Bowlen can pay up to $55m next year... plus whatever we gain with the restructures.

I think that Bowlen will get back $10 million if Shanahan gets employed next year.

Denver724
12-22-2009, 08:23 AM
In the D Post mailbag today. Sounds like Carter was brought in to play nickel and push Smith to the Dime (with Law out with an injury). With Law in Smith will be on the bench. Carter was out at the end of the game injured so Smith must have played nickel in the final series.

Alphonso Smith cost us a 2010 first-rounder, yet I have not heard his name called during a game. By bringing in a 36-year-old corner for support while he is on the bench, does this have "bust" written all over it, or do they see him maturing and improving?
-- Mike Bailey, Omaha

Mike - Not only did the Broncos sign Ty Law to replace Smith at nickelback, but also they just promoted undrafted rookie Tony Carter from the practice squad to replace Smith. Clearly, Smith has been a rookie disappointment, but no player should ever be labeled as a bust during his first year. The league is just too difficult. High pick or not, consider this Smith's redshirt rookie season. He'll have to show progress next season, but it won't be until his third season that we find out what kind of player he'll become.

Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_14042710#ixzz0aQnZ1IJJ

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-22-2009, 09:35 AM
Everyone wants to rip on Smith's first year, but nobody wants to recall that Troy Polamalu looked absolutely lost his first year in this league. I mean, terrible. Hesitant, didn't know where to go or where he should be, lost in coverage, just flat out NOT good.

he's turned out alright.

Maybe that's why it takes a few years to properly figure out a draft pick's worth.

BTW: Smith was picked on that missed tackle. Should have been Offensive PI, just one of at least five game-changing non-calls from that game.

gtown
12-22-2009, 09:35 AM
You gotta give Smith time. How much more complex are NFL coverages than college coverages? How much better are the receivers in the NFL than college? How intricate are offenses in the NFL? These things just take time to figure out.

Ayers has shown flashes. He is just a step behind right now, and another offseason and time working with the coaches will improve his situation awareness and his quickness.

Moreno has been good, but you have to remember that these guys spend the offseason after they declare getting in shape for the combine. It is in their first offseason when they can get in shape for better field performance. If you don't know this see Mendenhall and Ray Rice. Those two had dissapointing rookie seasons, worse than Moreno, and came back as forces after an NFL offseason.

All the other rookies have not played enough to call them good or bad eitherway.

barryr
12-22-2009, 09:48 AM
Oh my, a rookie CB who has had spurts of playing time here and there struggling. That must be a first. Idiots.

DBroncos4life
12-22-2009, 10:14 AM
Oh my, a rookie CB who has had spurts of playing time here and there struggling. That must be a first. Idiots.

Maybe you should tell this to the posters that claimed he would replace Goodman by week four or that he is the reason we can dump Bailey and his 15 million dollar contract in the off-season. He is the reason why McD had to dust of the Ouija board and call the ghost of Ty Law back to the football field.

Dagmar
12-22-2009, 10:22 AM
Moreno is asked a bulk of the time to go up the middle. Not a problem. It becomes a problem when your LG and C (and even RG) are on their ass one second after the snap and swarm of defenders is in your backfield.

That chick in your avatar is gonna give me epilepsy.