PDA

View Full Version : Moreno's runs after his 9th carry


Fusionfrontman
12-20-2009, 04:10 PM
After Moreno's 9th carry, he has had what looks like a total of less than ten yards on 10 + carries. What the hell is going on with him? Playcalling has been predictable but Moreno looks slow, worn out, and totally confused.
What's going on with him? Any insight?

Bob's your Information Minister
12-20-2009, 04:24 PM
He's just not a very good running back.

Slowshon Moreno.

strafen
12-20-2009, 04:36 PM
He's a bust.
I've been telling you that enough already for you guys to better start paying attention!

fontaine
12-20-2009, 04:40 PM
More runs up the middle, that should fix the running game!

lol

DarkHorse
12-20-2009, 04:42 PM
More runs up the middle, that should fix the running game!

lol

Please, everyone (including the other 31 teams) know that we need more draws and screens !Booya!

snowspot66
12-20-2009, 04:55 PM
After Moreno's 9th carry, he has had what looks like a total of less than ten yards on 10 + carries. What the hell is going on with him? Playcalling has been predictable but Moreno looks slow, worn out, and totally confused.
What's going on with him? Any insight?

Wow. Are you ****ing serious?

Did you see ONE ****ing hole for him to run through?

For ****s sakes. OUR LINE IS NOT GOOD.

Popps
12-20-2009, 04:56 PM
Wow. Are you ****ing serious?

Did you see ONE ****ing hole for him to run through?

For ****s sakes. OUR LINE IS NOT GOOD.

Just made a thread on the topic.

Either the Raiders have the best front 7 in football, or our run-blocking is a disaster.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-20-2009, 04:57 PM
And we only ran playaction one first down ONCE from what i remember...and it was a completion to brandon 15 yards downfield. Didnt understand that at all

slyinky
12-20-2009, 04:58 PM
He is Sammy Winder 2.0. Averaging 3.9 ypc for the season? Very Sammy-esque. Not a bad back but definitely not worth the 12th overall. He should come up with an end zone dance... Perhaps the "Jersey Sewer Stomp"?

strafen
12-20-2009, 04:58 PM
Just made a thread on the topic.

Either the Raiders have the best front 7 in football, or our run-blocking is a disaster.Didn't we have Larsen in there? :strong:

NUB
12-20-2009, 05:00 PM
Posting before the first mention of White Thunder.

bpc
12-20-2009, 05:03 PM
What is Knowshon? Is he a speed back, or a power back? When he figures out what he wants to be, he'll be much better off. He runs sideline to sideline like he's a speed back (only a 4.6), yet he runs upright and goes down by brisk win when engaged by defenders.

He needs to pick what he wants to be this offseason and master it. Until he does, he's only a average back at best. Since 4.3 speed doesn't grow on trees, dude better bulk up, do some squats and learn to run lower. Also, learning to settle for 2 yds instead of dancing would be high on my list of priorities for him as well.

peacepipe
12-20-2009, 05:04 PM
He doesn't seem to have good vision.

SouthStndJunkie
12-20-2009, 08:45 PM
Knowshon's yards per carry is now a paltry 3.92 on the year (224 carries 879 yards).

I would like to blame Knowshon's low ypc on our offensive line, but Correll Buckhalter has averaged 5.3 ypc on the year behind the same line.

I still think he will be a good back for us, but I don't think he is going to be an exceptional back for us....which is what you expect with the 12th overall pick.

lex
12-20-2009, 08:48 PM
Knowshon's yards per carry is now a paltry 3.92 on the year (224 carries 879 yards).

I would like to blame Knowshon's low ypc on our offensive line, but Correll Buckhalter has averaged 5.3 ypc on the year behind the same line.

I still think he will be a good back for us, but I don't think he is going to be an exceptional back for us....which is what you expect with the 12th overall pick.

Moreno runs up the middle more than Buckhalter.

Lolad
12-20-2009, 08:58 PM
Moreno runs up the middle more than Buckhalter.

I think Buck starts in the middle and has the vision to bounce it outside unlike Moreno. Moreno falls without being touched sometimes.

Bronco LB52
12-20-2009, 09:09 PM
Knowshon's yards per carry is now a paltry 3.92 on the year (224 carries 879 yards).

I would like to blame Knowshon's low ypc on our offensive line, but Correll Buckhalter has averaged 5.3 ypc on the year behind the same line.

I still think he will be a good back for us, but I don't think he is going to be an exceptional back for us....which is what you expect with the 12th overall pick.

Mike Shanahan wouldn't have used a first round pick on a running back unless they were somebody like Adrian ****ing Peterson!

HAT
12-20-2009, 09:37 PM
He's a bust.
I've been telling you that enough already for you guys to better start paying attention!

Your stupidity is becoming legendary.

Coming into today:

KM's YPC is >/= to......

Benson
McGahee
Portis
Jacobs
Lynch
Addai
Smith
Forte
Sproles
Slaton
LT

KM averages about 1 foot or less per carry than.....
Barber
Grant
Brown
AP
Jackson
MJD

At least Bob is just trolling a rival board with his inane crap, you are just a ****ing idiot.

ZONA
12-20-2009, 09:44 PM
He is Sammy Winder 2.0. Averaging 3.9 ypc for the season? Very Sammy-esque. Not a bad back but definitely not worth the 12th overall. He should come up with an end zone dance... Perhaps the "Jersey Sewer Stomp"?

Over the past 4 weeks I have come to realize while there are not many holes to run through, Moreno is NOT doing what you hope and expect the 1st taken RB in the draft to do, which is make some special plays on his own. I'm not saying he's a bust or a bad back like alot of other guys are doing but I agree with you, he's just not showing us he was worthy of such a high pick, at least not right now he's not.

And I don't want to hear McD talk crap this week about Hillis not being able to play because he's down to his last FB. If he wants to make the MF playoffs, Hillis better see some time at RB or we are doomed.

strafen
12-20-2009, 09:49 PM
Your stupidity is becoming legendary.

Coming into today:

KM's YPC is >/= to......

Benson
McGahee
Portis
Jacobs
Lynch
Addai
Smith
Forte
Sproles
Slaton
LT

KM averages about 1 foot or less per carry than.....
Barber
Grant
Brown
AP
Jackson
MJD

At least Bob is just trolling a rival board with his inane crap, you are just a ****ing idiot.Truth hurts doesn't it, Ass-HAT?
Tell me what those numbers mean when you can't convert 3rd down, moron?
I thought so...

wandlc
12-20-2009, 09:50 PM
Your stupidity is becoming legendary.

Coming into today:

KM's YPC is >/= to......

Benson
McGahee
Portis
Jacobs
Lynch
Addai
Smith
Forte
Sproles
Slaton
LT

KM averages about 1 foot or less per carry than.....
Barber
Grant
Brown
AP
Jackson
MJD

At least Bob is just trolling a rival board with his inane crap, you are just a ****ing idiot.

You forgot Wells, he is only avg 4.6 per carry and has a good shot at passing Moreno in yds by the end of the year.

jhat01
12-20-2009, 09:53 PM
I think the dude is a little tired. The last couple of weeks it seems like he's been outta gas. Maybe hitting a bit of a wall? I don't know, but this bust talk is just dumb.

strafen
12-20-2009, 09:54 PM
he is sammy winder 2.0. Averaging 3.9 ypc for the season? Very sammy-esque. Not a bad back but definitely not worth the 12th overall. He should come up with an end zone dance... Perhaps the "jersey sewer stomp"?

Moreno: you need 10, he'll give you 7. You need 3 he'll give -1

HAT
12-20-2009, 10:24 PM
Truth hurts doesn't it, Ass-HAT?
Tell me what those numbers mean when you can't convert 3rd down


The only truth here is that 14 games is not enough evidence to call ANY 1st round draft pick a bust. Especially one that wasn't even a top 10 selection.

The numbers simply mean that he is holding his own while adjusting to the speed of the pro game while running behind a sub par run blocking interior line.

RB's don't run in a vaccum. He couldn't do **** today, that's for sure.

Popps
12-20-2009, 10:35 PM
I think the dude is a little tired. The last couple of weeks it seems like he's been outta gas. Maybe hitting a bit of a wall? I don't know, but this bust talk is just dumb.

When he has any sort of lane, he's extremely productive.

When he has 3 guys meeting him in the backfield, he's not so productive.


I will say this, he's no Adrian Peterson... but I think he can be an extremely productive back for us if given any sort of running lanes.

McDaniels is coming out and directly telling the public... "we're not getting it done up front."

He's not saying that to protect Moreno's feelings. He'd bench Moreno in a second if he thought it would matter. He's saying that because it's true. He's saying it because anyone with functioning eyesight should be able to look at 4 defenders behind the LOS on every play and understand that it's a bit of a problem for a runner.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 11:03 PM
I think that Moreno's problem is that he's indecisive, and that indecisiveness is greatly exacerbated by an offensive line that is playing straight forward when they're built for zone blocking. Moreno isn't the type of back that you can expect something from nothing. He reminds me of Shaun Alexander. When everything is working perfect, he'll manage to rip off yards and be a productive, maybe even stellar back. But don't expect a lot of broken tackles unless he gets a good head of steam and a clear lane, and if the blocking isn't there, don't expect a whole lot of anything.

strafen
12-20-2009, 11:11 PM
I think that Moreno's problem is that he's indecisive, and that indecisiveness is greatly exacerbated by an offensive line that is playing straight forward when they're built for zone blocking. Moreno isn't the type of back that you can expect something from nothing. He reminds me of Shaun Alexander. When everything is working perfect, he'll manage to rip off yards and be a productive, maybe even stellar back. But don't expect a lot of broken tackles unless he gets a good head of steam and a clear lane, and if the blocking isn't there, don't expect a whole lot of anything.

I think we're all clear on the fact the guy is nothing special.
Very average. Nothing close to what I expected when we first got him.
I'm very disappointed in what he's turned out to be...

Atwater His Ass
12-20-2009, 11:18 PM
Moreno can still be a speical player.

He has the atheltic gifts, he needs to develop mentaly (i.e., being able to read the play quickly and hit the damn hole).

Give the kid an off-season to learn and upgrade the interior OL. Then see what he can do.

HAT
12-20-2009, 11:22 PM
I think we're all clear on the fact the guy is nothing special.
Very average. Nothing close to what I expected when we first got him.
I'm very disappointed in what he's turned out to be...

Now the truth comes out...You consider him a bust because he hasn't met your personal expectations. That actually makes a little sense. I thought you were trying to say that he was in fact a bust by actual NFL standards.

You should learn to manage your expectations better.....That way you won't be tempted to exaggerate and call people busts after 14 games. That kind of stuff only adds to your drama queen reputation.

KevinJames
12-20-2009, 11:30 PM
People need to stop throwing the bust label around especially to someone who is in the running to win ROY if he has 2 big games down the stretch and he plays 2 mediocre run defenses one of them gave up 286 yds rushing to Jerome Harrison today.

to be honest Moreno still doesn't seem to be in the best of shape.

He had a hold out than got hurt in training camp and he has had small nagging injuries all season long.

I think with all that and plus how the offensive line is blocking he is not having that bad of a rookie season, hes shown flashes and once we can open up some holes I am sure he will be fine.

give him a full off season being healthy and getting his body right I got a feeling hes gonna be looking a lot better next year.

strafen
12-20-2009, 11:31 PM
Now the truth comes out...You consider him a bust because he hasn't met your personal expectations. That actually makes a little sense. I thought you were trying to say that he was in fact a bust by actual NFL standards.

You should learn to manage your expectations better.....That way you won't be tempted to exaggerate and call people busts after 14 games. That kind of stuff only adds to your drama queen reputation.You're pretty good at putting a spin on things, aren't you?
I was in the wait and see mode. I didn't say he was a bust when we got him in the draft. I did have higher expectations, just like you did and everybody else did, but reality has set it
I don't consider him a bust because he didn't meet my expectations, he's a bust by anyone's standards because when you get that type of production out of a #12 overall pick in the draft, it's not acceptable. You expect an impact player. A gamer, a playmaker. We ain't got that at all.
14 games, 15 games, 16 games. Does it matter?
Are things going to change that you know of?

Accept the reality. We've got a 6th round back with the #12 pick.

Taco John
12-20-2009, 11:37 PM
I was hoping to get Matt Forte rookie production out of Moreno this year. About 1200 yards and 8 TDs. That's not counting the 4 passing game touchdowns Forte got. That's just bonus. Forte was a second round pick.

I'm not giving up on the guy. I'm not calling him a bust. I'm just disappointed in what I've seen so far. He's inconsistent and seems to need everything perfect to be productive. I hope this isn't a persistent problem.

KevinJames
12-20-2009, 11:40 PM
You're pretty good at putting a spin on things, aren't you?
I don't consider him a bust because he didn't meet my expectations, he's a bust by anyone's standards because when you get that type of production out of a #12 overall pick in the draft, it's not acceptable. 14 games, 15 games, 16 games. Does it matter?
Are things going to change that you know of?

Accept the reality. We've got a 6th round back with the #12 pick.

your over reacting a little bit especially considering the guys got 1,000 all purpose yards for us hes got 80 yds or more rushing 6 times this season and thats pretty good considering our o-line sucks lets face it our interior offensive line doesn't scare anyone.

you don't judge a player after their first season especially when they started the season coming off an injury and missed a lot of camp due to him being a rookie and the injury problem I mentioned.

Knowshon is not a bust you can't expect every back to perform like Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson.....

and you ignore the fact that he is probably the best pass protection we have right now outside of Clady......

azbroncfan
12-20-2009, 11:47 PM
Beanie Wells is doing great in AZ here and you really can see the difference in the guys god given abilities.

strafen
12-20-2009, 11:53 PM
your over reacting a little bit especially considering the guys got 1,000 all purpose yards for us hes got 80 yds or more rushing 6 times this season and thats pretty good considering our o-line sucks lets face it our interior offensive line doesn't scare anyone.

you don't judge a player after their first season especially when they started the season coming off an injury and missed a lot of camp due to him being a rookie and the injury problem I mentioned.

Knowshon is not a bust you can't expect every back to perform like Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson.....Let me put it this way...
Perhaps I'm a little premature to call him a bust.
Let's agree there.
Now, the guy came with a high tag on him.
A 12th overall pick, regardless of any circumstances that may had happened during the off-season, contract hold-out and what have you, usually shows some flashes of greatness, a knack for the big play, and the potential to change the outcome of the game at any given time.
I just don't see that in Moreno. You either have it, or you don't. That IT is not something you grow. It's in you already. That's why I don't see Moreno being anything more than what I've seen.
I haven't seen any game where I would expect or anticipate Moreno to break one run for 60-70 yards at any time. He's not even that kind of threat.

Not even a single 100-yard game in 14 games to speak off is a little disturbing
I stick with my assessment until proven otherwise...

strafen
12-20-2009, 11:54 PM
Beanie Wells is doing great in AZ here and you really can see the difference in the guys god given abilities.Wells is doing great, considering that he has had split carries with Hightower.
I checked his stats last week, and he's had as many carries as Hightower had

ZONA
12-21-2009, 01:38 AM
Beanie Wells is doing great in AZ here and you really can see the difference in the guys god given abilities.

I was thinking that also today. When he hits a lane or hole, even a small one, he's through that thing and fast. I think he was the best back in the draft but injuries kept teams from going after him early. Nothing at all against Moreno but I wish we had Wells instead. I like his size and speed and he has shown good vision during the games that I watched. Arizona has a terrible running offensive line and he seems to turn broken plays into nice gains. I can't say that I have seen Moreno do that very often.

extralife
12-21-2009, 01:42 AM
I wish we'd do some zone blocking. it wasn't broken--why the hell did we try to fix it?

NUB
12-21-2009, 02:46 AM
I wish we'd do some zone blocking. it wasn't broken--why the hell did we try to fix it?

Because it's not the New England way and everyone knows New England is the NFL champ of running the football!

:yayaya:

NUB
12-21-2009, 02:47 AM
P.S. There are holes, Moreno just refuses to cut back, instead preferring to run straight ahead -- often into an O-lineman -- and attempt to power things forward. Not going to happen. I agree there are times when he has no chance, but it's not entirely on the O-line as many are arguing IMO.

WolfpackGuy
12-21-2009, 04:31 AM
All season I've been chalking it up to him being injured in training camp and not making the right reads, but he's just slow.

Again, why did they pick a running back at 12?

Broncomutt
12-21-2009, 05:25 AM
At one point in the game I saw Moreno take a handoff and run straight toward a hole, STOP at the LoS like he was going to cut back, then plow straight ahead into the (now collapsing) hole he originally ran towards. Was not the first time I've seen it either.

Some people want to hang it on the O Line completely, and it's true they are playing horribly, but they can't block forever while Moreno tries to make up his mind.

I see LOTS of indecision in this kid. He ain't fast enough to be so indecisive.

Spider
12-21-2009, 06:34 AM
I think the dude is a little tired. The last couple of weeks it seems like he's been outta gas. Maybe hitting a bit of a wall? I don't know, but this bust talk is just dumb.

:D alot of college backs,have this problem .......portis lost weight by this time his rookie year ............... But you know how people are , Unless he is scoring TD's , doing a cool endzone dance , He is a bust , until the local O.M. message board posting geniuses state different

Spider
12-21-2009, 06:39 AM
People need to stop throwing the bust label around especially to someone who is in the running to win ROY if he has 2 big games down the stretch and he plays 2 mediocre run defenses one of them gave up 286 yds rushing to Jerome Harrison today.

to be honest Moreno still doesn't seem to be in the best of shape.

He had a hold out than got hurt in training camp and he has had small nagging injuries all season long.

I think with all that and plus how the offensive line is blocking he is not having that bad of a rookie season, hes shown flashes and once we can open up some holes I am sure he will be fine.

give him a full off season being healthy and getting his body right I got a feeling hes gonna be looking a lot better next year.
;D Around here hysteria ,drama , and just good ole fashion stupidity dominate ,Only handful of posters got a clue ;D ...........

strafen
12-21-2009, 06:55 AM
At one point in the game I saw Moreno take a handoff and run straight toward a hole, STOP at the LoS like he was going to cut back, then plow straight ahead into the (now collapsing) hole he originally ran towards. Was not the first time I've seen it either.

Some people want to hang it on the O Line completely, and it's true they are playing horribly, but they can't block forever while Moreno tries to make up his mind.

I see LOTS of indecision in this kid. He ain't fast enough to be so indecisive.

Yeah, I have noticed that too, especially in the Indy game. He was way behind his blocker in a couple of runs. He was being tackle at the LOS and you can see his blocker already clearing the first tier

azbroncfan
12-21-2009, 07:39 AM
Wells is doing great, considering that he has had split carries with Hightower.
I checked his stats last week, and he's had as many carries as Hightower had

He is. I have seen almost all of Arizona's games played this year and you can see the talent that they always said Beanie had. I am not seeing the soft player that Mayock dragged him down on. He didn't get a lot of carries early in the year but is getting them now. Hightower is very average and I expect Wells to get the bulk of the carries the rest of the way with Hightower in on Passing situations.

Garcia Bronco
12-21-2009, 07:47 AM
Moreno is a good player and I think he'll be a great option, but he can't read a blitz and he can't find the hole. The o-line isn't helping either.

Smiling Assassin27
12-21-2009, 08:06 AM
The kid is a rookie, but he has NFL level skills. The question will be whether he has NFL level work ethic in the offseason to make himself better. If the guy takes time to watch every play in which he touched the ball and is a workout warrior, he should make a big jump from his rookie year.

If I'm him, I call fellow Bulldog Terrell Davis up and see if he might be willing to lend a hand.

jhat01
12-21-2009, 08:25 AM
When he has any sort of lane, he's extremely productive.

When he has 3 guys meeting him in the backfield, he's not so productive.


I will say this, he's no Adrian Peterson... but I think he can be an extremely productive back for us if given any sort of running lanes.

McDaniels is coming out and directly telling the public... "we're not getting it done up front."

He's not saying that to protect Moreno's feelings. He'd bench Moreno in a second if he thought it would matter. He's saying that because it's true. He's saying it because anyone with functioning eyesight should be able to look at 4 defenders behind the LOS on every play and understand that it's a bit of a problem for a runner.


I'm with you, I like the kid, but it seemed against the colts and yesterday his legs were a little heavy. There were several runs last week when the carpet reached up and grabbed him.

elsid13
12-21-2009, 08:35 AM
What is Knowshon? Is he a speed back, or a power back? When he figures out what he wants to be, he'll be much better off. He runs sideline to sideline like he's a speed back (only a 4.6), yet he runs upright and goes down by brisk win when engaged by defenders.

He needs to pick what he wants to be this offseason and master it. Until he does, he's only a average back at best. Since 4.3 speed doesn't grow on trees, dude better bulk up, do some squats and learn to run lower. Also, learning to settle for 2 yds instead of dancing would be high on my list of priorities for him as well.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=71400&highlight=moreno


Trust me.

Beantown Bronco
12-21-2009, 08:41 AM
Moreno is a good player and I think he'll be a great option, but he can't read a blitz and he can't find the hole. The o-line isn't helping either.

Can't read a blitz? He blew ONE blocking assignment on a blitz against Indy, but appeared to make all the correct reads and blocks yesterday IMO. He consistently stone-walled his guy on passing plays when he stayed in to block.

spdirty
12-21-2009, 08:44 AM
When he has any sort of lane, he's extremely productive.

When he has 3 guys meeting him in the backfield, he's not so productive.


I will say this, he's no Adrian Peterson... but I think he can be an extremely productive back for us if given any sort of running lanes.

McDaniels is coming out and directly telling the public... "we're not getting it done up front."

He's not saying that to protect Moreno's feelings. He'd bench Moreno in a second if he thought it would matter. He's saying that because it's true. He's saying it because anyone with functioning eyesight should be able to look at 4 defenders behind the LOS on every play and understand that it's a bit of a problem for a runner.

We get a better left guard and cente, he will be fine. Though Bobby Turner is probably pulling his hair out right now with all the dancing.

But Im pretty ****in pissed that once again, Moreno was the short yardage back and once again, it failed and cost us another game.

Put hillis in at certain situatons the last 2 games and Id bet my left nut we're 10-4 right now.

spdirty
12-21-2009, 08:46 AM
Can't read a blitz? He blew ONE blocking assignment on a blitz against Indy, but appeared to make all the correct reads and blocks yesterday IMO. He consistently stone-walled his guy on passing plays when he stayed in to block.

He ****ed up in pass protection several times against Pittsburgh and Baltimore too.

Ill refer to you in the past few games against Oak and Indy because I only notice how a running back does in pp when he ****s up.

broncobum6162
12-21-2009, 10:35 AM
Don't blame Moreno. Blame bad play calling by the coaching staff and an offensive line where they let everyone thru. He's getting hit behind the line of scrimmage for gosh sakes.

oubronco
12-21-2009, 10:39 AM
We get a better left guard and cente, he will be fine. Though Bobby Turner is probably pulling his hair out right now with all the dancing.

But Im pretty ****in pissed that once again, Moreno was the short yardage back and once again, it failed and cost us another game.

Put hillis in at certain situatons the last 2 games and Id bet my left nut we're 10-4 right now.

It's always nice to second guess everything about the game the next day isn't it

Garcia Bronco
12-21-2009, 11:02 AM
Can't read a blitz? He blew ONE blocking assignment on a blitz against Indy, but appeared to make all the correct reads and blocks yesterday IMO. He consistently stone-walled his guy on passing plays when he stayed in to block.

I counted twice yesterday were he released and should have stayed his ass at home. He doesn't get it. He can't let the other team in the backfield.

Beantown Bronco
12-21-2009, 11:51 AM
I counted twice yesterday were he released and should have stayed his ass at home. He doesn't get it. He can't let the other team in the backfield.

That's fine. Even if I concede that, though, two bad plays out of however many he was in there for where they blitzed is hardly something that would justify your earlier statement that he simply cannot read a blitz. Apparently he read it fine the other 15-20+ times.

Garcia Bronco
12-21-2009, 11:54 AM
That's fine. Even if I concede that, though, two bad plays out of however many he was in there for where they blitzed is hardly something that would justify your earlier statement that he simply cannot read a blitz. Apparently he read it fine the other 15-20+ times.

That's just the two I counted.

He also doesn't get to the edge when it's there. He's good, but not good enough to be the guy right now. We need Hillis, but it would take 3 games for Hillis to get back into the flow of things basically eliminating the option.