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View Full Version : Broncos should have plenty of money to spend in 2010 should Bowlen decide to spend it


eddie mac
12-20-2009, 05:27 AM
According to my records from late November, the Broncos have the lowest payroll attributed for 2010.

At present they only have $62m attached to approx 41 players' contracts.

Only Kansas City at $63.5m, Cincinatti at $67m, New England at $63m, Tampa Bay $65.5m, Tennessee $67.5m come close to that figure. The likes of the Dallas Cowboys, Vikings etc have nearly $50m more already assigned.

So by my reckoning if Bowlen wants this team to push once again for a Superbowl he has more than enough wriggle room to keep the players we want to keep and give McDaniels enough ammo to go after those few decent players that will make it through the loophole of a non-CBA free agency period.

To put the above figures into perspective, Denver spent approx $112m on contracts this season. So $50m less right now.

The Joker
12-20-2009, 06:07 AM
You reckon that resigning Orton, Marshall, Doom and Kuper should be quite manageable then?

Very nice, if so.

Traveler
12-20-2009, 06:13 AM
It's early for me. If I'm interpreting this correctly, you're saying that Denver has fifty million dollars available in 2010?

Drek
12-20-2009, 07:00 AM
It's early for me. If I'm interpreting this correctly, you're saying that Denver has fifty million dollars available in 2010?

He's saying they are committed to $50M less at this point for 2010 than what they'll pay out in total for the 2009 season.

Obviously that $62M number is us without Doom, Marshall, Orton, and anyone else who might be on an expiring contract, which for the back end of the roster would be a pretty big number. We'd probably see somewhere between $5-$10M needed just to fill out the back 15-20 of the roster. We'll also have a fairly high dollar draft pick coming from the Bears, as well as the rest of our draft picks, but they'll help fill out that back 15-20 as well possibly.

Those are a couple examples of how it could go down. It could go up simply if Bowlen is willing to spend more. It could also increase if Champ gets an extension with a lower '10 payout (at about $15M as of now) in exchange for multiple years.

There is a restriction where a playoff team in an uncapped year can basically only spend dollar for dollar on FA money added for FA money lost. I'm not sure how that deals with cap hits like Henry, Cutler, Bly, Bailey, etc.. If we make the playoffs and that money is viewed as FA money lost then we could easily extend Doom, Marshall, and Orton (probably all in the $9-$10M AAV at the utmost) and still have $20M+ to spend on FAs.

We're in a pretty interesting position. Xanders seems to have the finances sorted well for the first time in at least half a decade. If Bowlen is up for spending it Xanders and McDaniels will likely have a whole lot of ammo, dollars and picks, to make this team better for 2010.

elsid13
12-20-2009, 07:00 AM
It's early for me. If I'm interpreting this correctly, you're saying that Denver has fifty million dollars available in 2010?

That what he saying, if there is a cap. If not it up to Bowlen how much he wants to spend.

GeniusatWork
12-20-2009, 08:22 AM
Wow, that sounds like a good position, just have to wait to see what we do.

It's been a long time if I remember right since Denver had so much room. Probably since before I can remember.

But "room" prolly isn't the right word since there is no cap. Prolly better to just say since Denver had such a low payroll commitment in relation to what Bowlen is perpared to spend.

UboBronco
12-20-2009, 09:10 AM
And how much money would Bowlen save in Shanny signs on to coach the Redskins...

peacepipe
12-20-2009, 09:15 AM
He's saying they are committed to $50M less at this point for 2010 than what they'll pay out in total for the 2009 season.

Obviously that $62M number is us without Doom, Marshall, Orton, and anyone else who might be on an expiring contract, which for the back end of the roster would be a pretty big number. We'd probably see somewhere between $5-$10M needed just to fill out the back 15-20 of the roster. We'll also have a fairly high dollar draft pick coming from the Bears, as well as the rest of our draft picks, but they'll help fill out that back 15-20 as well possibly.

Those are a couple examples of how it could go down. It could go up simply if Bowlen is willing to spend more. It could also increase if Champ gets an extension with a lower '10 payout (at about $15M as of now) in exchange for multiple years.

There is a restriction where a playoff team in an uncapped year can basically only spend dollar for dollar on FA money added for FA money lost. I'm not sure how that deals with cap hits like Henry, Cutler, Bly, Bailey, etc.. If we make the playoffs and that money is viewed as FA money lost then we could easily extend Doom, Marshall, and Orton (probably all in the $9-$10M AAV at the utmost) and still have $20M+ to spend on FAs.

We're in a pretty interesting position. Xanders seems to have the finances sorted well for the first time in at least half a decade. If Bowlen is up for spending it Xanders and McDaniels will likely have a whole lot of ammo, dollars and picks, to make this team better for 2010.

With chicago taking on Cutlers contract we have no cap hit for cutler.

RhymesayersDU
12-20-2009, 09:18 AM
It's too bad Bowlen is a gutless drunk who won't spend any money!

eddie mac
12-20-2009, 09:57 AM
You reckon that resigning Orton, Marshall, Doom and Kuper should be quite manageable then?

Very nice, if so.

Re-signing Orton, Kuper and Scheffler was always going to be easy considering there wont be a big market for any of them.

Dumervil and Marshall have elevated themselves to top 5-10 players at their posiitons and it depends how much Bowlen wants to invest in them.

Bronco Warrior
12-20-2009, 10:03 AM
If we sign Orton to a big long term contract we are idiots. He will be our backup of the future nothing more! Shanny is already hiring staff for the Washington gig so there goes another 10+ mill for the year. We lose alot of dead cap hits in an uncapped year too so we sign Marshall Doom, and Kuper for starters..no punn intended..lol, and we sign a big DL FA and we are in business! I would have said that we needed a big nasty Guard from FA but Hochstien has played solid and we can draft one for the future. Center is a concern aswell..Weig is getting old and might not be as good in Joshie's scheme.

PS Edit: Sheffler is going to go to a Restricted FA in an uncapped year. Don't fool yourself..that guy would get paid!! Kuper is a beast and would get paid elsewere too!

CEH
12-20-2009, 10:19 AM
If we sign Orton to a big long term contract we are idiots. He will be our backup of the future nothing more! Shanny is already hiring staff for the Washington gig so there goes another 10+ mill for the year. We lose alot of dead cap hits in an uncapped year too so we sign Marshall Doom, and Kuper for starters..no punn intended..lol, and we sign a big DL FA and we are in business! I would have said that we needed a big nasty Guard from FA but Hochstien has played solid and we can draft one for the future. Center is a concern aswell..Weig is getting old and might not be as good in Joshie's scheme.

PS Edit: Sheffler is going to go to a Restricted FA in an uncapped year. Don't fool yourself..that guy would get paid!! Kuper is a beast and would get paid elsewere too!

Sheffler is none too happy about his role here as of late and he knew McD was shopping him in this offseason so like you said he'll get paid I just don't think it will be here

HEAV
12-20-2009, 10:32 AM
You reckon that resigning Orton, Marshall, Doom and Kuper should be quite manageable then?

Very nice, if so.

Marshall (Franchise)

Doom (restricted)

Orton (restricted)

Kuper (restricted)

It can be done with some reworked contracts and with Shanny getting a coaching gig.

Bronco Warrior
12-20-2009, 11:05 AM
Orton was on a one year deal wasn't he? Then he will be FA. If we have him RFA we shouldn't give him a dollar! That would be sweet to keep him as a functional backup!

gyldenlove
12-20-2009, 11:26 AM
Hopefully the Redskins or Cowboys will be good enough to take the 14 million we have committed to Shanahan off our hands as well, that should make Bowlens pockets seem even deeper.

Bronco Warrior
12-20-2009, 11:30 AM
Shannahan is already hiring staff for Washington according to NFLN.

peacepipe
12-20-2009, 11:47 AM
Marshall (Franchise)

Doom (restricted)

Orton (restricted)

Kuper (restricted)

It can be done with some reworked contracts and with Shanny getting a coaching gig.
Doom will be a UFA in the offseason assuming a new CBA is worked out.

misturanderson
12-20-2009, 11:51 AM
Doom will be a UFA in the offseason assuming a new CBA is worked out.

Which has about a 5% possibility of happening at this point. It is all but assured that next year will be uncapped and have no CBA in place.

snowspot66
12-20-2009, 11:53 AM
Sheffler is none too happy about his role here as of late and he knew McD was shopping him in this offseason so like you said he'll get paid I just don't think it will be here

You best friends with him or something?

Some of the unfounded posts around here are amazing.

strafen
12-20-2009, 11:56 AM
And how much money would Bowlen save in Shanny signs on to coach the Redskins...+1
I was wondering the same thing...

CEH
12-20-2009, 12:04 PM
You best friends with him or something?

Some of the unfounded posts around here are amazing.

No but he was on the Fan speaking with Nate jackson and that was Nate's conclusion of the interview. Nate and Tony are tight

Bronco Warrior
12-20-2009, 12:05 PM
+1
I was wondering the same thing...

Drag: it's in the 13-14 mill range per year if (when)he gets signed by Washington. Unless Washington and the spend happy Snyder signs him for less per than he was owed here..then we pay the difference. Fat Chance on that with Snyder writing the checks!

Bronco Warrior
12-20-2009, 12:07 PM
You best friends with him or something?

Some of the unfounded posts around here are amazing.

Sheff has the most catches by a TE in the league over the last three years untill Joshie came to town. The guy is 6'5 and 255 and runs a sub 4.6, would you be happy?

peacepipe
12-20-2009, 12:10 PM
+1
I was wondering the same thing...The entire remainder of shanahans contract. Which BTW has no bearing on the cap.

snowspot66
12-20-2009, 12:11 PM
Sheff has the most catches by a TE in the league over the last three years untill Joshie came to town. The guy is 6'5 and 255 and runs a sub 4.6, would you be happy?

If I'm winning? **** yeah I'd be happy.

CEH
12-20-2009, 12:11 PM
Drag: it's in the 13-14 mill range per year if (when)he gets signed by Washington. Unless Washington and the spend happy Snyder signs him for less per than he was owed here..then we pay the difference. Fat Chance on that with Snyder writing the checks!

Gary Miller said expect Bowlen to save "pennies on the dollar" so I think you are right. Synder will get a bargain the next two years

snowspot66
12-20-2009, 12:11 PM
No but he was on the Fan speaking with Nate jackson and that was Nate's conclusion of the interview. Nate and Tony are tight

And when was this? Before the season?

elsid13
12-20-2009, 12:12 PM
And when was this? Before the season?

It was posted last week or so. Do a search of the main board.

Bronco Warrior
12-20-2009, 12:37 PM
If I'm winning? **** yeah I'd be happy.

I call BS! You would be happy going from a Main target to an after though only once in a while? Then you never played the game! And we would win more if Orton could get him the ball! :thumbs:

Broncoman13
12-20-2009, 12:42 PM
You reckon that resigning Orton, Marshall, Doom and Kuper should be quite manageable then?

Very nice, if so.

I think Kuper is out... McD isn't very happy with the interior OL right now and Kuper is part of that problem... with the offense, protections, and running scheme McD wants to run that is.

PS, Brandon Marshall to the Browns for their first and Cribbs!!! That opens up some money right there.

bpc
12-20-2009, 12:47 PM
Thanks for the find EM.

Kuper is doing fine and can play at four different positions on this OL. Either guard, either tackle spot. It's all about having flexibility. McDaniels isn't stupid. Kuper is a good football player and will stay.

It will be interesting to see what we do with this cap money. If we sit on our hands this offseason, there should be speculation that Bowlen's reserve has run dry in this economy and we're playing to merely compete.

We need a QB, a HB mate to pair with Knowshon for the foreseeable future, a starting WR who can line up outside and put Royal at the slot, talented interior linemen, a playmaker on the defensive line, another pass rusher in the front seven, and some youth to offset the age we have at CB... that and Champ's contract is up in a year.

Lots to do so it's nice that we have the resources to fix it. Hopefully we do.

BroncoMan4ever
12-20-2009, 12:57 PM
Re-signing Orton, Kuper and Scheffler was always going to be easy considering there wont be a big market for any of them.

Dumervil and Marshall have elevated themselves to top 5-10 players at their posiitons and it depends how much Bowlen wants to invest in them.

I don't know about Orton, Kuper and Schef being easy to re-sign because there won't be a market for them. I don't think that is true.

If guys like Cassell, Schaub, Derek Anderson in recent years had 1 good year and then cashed in big time, there will be a big market for a guy like Orton. he is a proven winner, and while not the most athletically gifted QB in the world, he has all the intangibles, the intelligence, desire, leadership ability that teams will pay a good chunk of change to have on their team.

Kuper is a very young, really good guard in this league. with a premium on good OL players, he is going to get paid and will have many suitors outside of Denver.

Schef has shown that when he has the opportunity he can be a top 10 receiving TE in this league. For a team that utilizes the receiving TE more, he could be a really great asset and because of that will have suitors.

NFLBRONCO
12-20-2009, 01:00 PM
Mike would want Schef

BroncoMan4ever
12-20-2009, 01:03 PM
I think Kuper is out... McD isn't very happy with the interior OL right now and Kuper is part of that problem... with the offense, protections, and running scheme McD wants to run that is.

PS, Brandon Marshall to the Browns for their first and Cribbs!!! That opens up some money right there.

that does not open up more money. Cribbs wants his payday, and will probably get something like 5 years and 25 million. add in that the Browns 1st round pick is in the top 10 and that is another 50 million contract on the books.

also, no way is Kuper out. he has not been the weak link in the line. It is the left side and Center of the line that are getting destroyed. he is very versatile. he can play either Guard spot, and isn't he capable of playing Center as well? McDaniels loves guys like that who can play a number of positions.

also, those people saying to let Marshall walk or to trade him for picks is ridiculous. teams go into the draft praying to unearth a guy with half of his talent. guys like that aren't just allowed to walk or get traded.

NFLBRONCO
12-20-2009, 01:04 PM
Years ago I'd not even think about it but, after last few years I truly wonder if we will sign many of our high demand players. I want Doom and BM signed but, not sure if Bowlen will pay the price it will be interesting.

Popps
12-20-2009, 01:11 PM
Orton isn't going anywhere. He'll be our starting QB next year, baring some sort of major disaster between now and then. Like it or don't... those are the facts. Personally, I like winning... so I'm O.K. with it.

Glad to hear we've got some cash to spend in FA, though. It's a nice looking year as far as talent available. Nice draft class, too.

Fuggin' great time to be a Broncos fan.


:sunshine:

SonOfLe-loLang
12-20-2009, 01:12 PM
that does not open up more money. Cribbs wants his payday, and will probably get something like 5 years and 25 million. add in that the Browns 1st round pick is in the top 10 and that is another 50 million contract on the books.

also, no way is Kuper out. he has not been the weak link in the line. It is the left side and Center of the line that are getting destroyed. he is very versatile. he can play either Guard spot, and isn't he capable of playing Center as well? McDaniels loves guys like that who can play a number of positions.

also, those people saying to let Marshall walk or to trade him for picks is ridiculous. teams go into the draft praying to unearth a guy with half of his talent. guys like that aren't just allowed to walk or get traded.

Agreed. its laughable to me when people suggest trading Marshall for picks. He's one of only maybe 10 guys that can make things happen all their own and young. And people want to get rid of him? Crazy.

peacepipe
12-20-2009, 01:20 PM
Orton isn't going anywhere. He'll be our starting QB next year, baring some sort of major disaster between now and then. Like it or don't... those are the facts. Personally, I like winning... so I'm O.K. with it.

Glad to hear we've got some cash to spend in FA, though. It's a nice looking year as far as talent available. Nice draft class, too.

Fuggin' great time to be a Broncos fan.


:sunshine:Unless Orton is willing to sign a 1 yr deal I don't se him remaining, at least not as the starter. I don't believe Bowlen is going to commit to a long term contract for a player that will probably only make it 1 more season.

HEAV
12-20-2009, 01:22 PM
Doom will be a UFA in the offseason assuming a new CBA is worked out.

Denver will hold the rights to First Refusal. Basically Denver will have the option to match any offer given to Dumervil or receive draft picks instead of matching the offer.

So Dumervil isn't free to leave without any comp.

snowspot66
12-20-2009, 01:23 PM
I call BS! You would be happy going from a Main target to an after though only once in a while? Then you never played the game! And we would win more if Orton could get him the ball! :thumbs:

I've gone from full time starter to riding the pine to playing again in football and baseball.

Winning makes everything easier.

HEAV
12-20-2009, 01:23 PM
Unless Orton is willing to sign a 1 yr deal I don't se him remaining, at least not as the starter. I don't believe Bowlen is going to commit to a long term contract for a player that will probably only make it 1 more season.

OK I get it you're one of them idiots...

BroncoMan4ever
12-20-2009, 01:25 PM
Unless Orton is willing to sign a 1 yr deal I don't se him remaining, at least not as the starter. I don't believe Bowlen is going to commit to a long term contract for a player that will probably only make it 1 more season.

that is very stupid. Bowlen isn't the one who is going to decide whether or not Orton gets a long term deal. it is going to be McDaniels. it is going to come down to, does McDaniels believe Orton can get the job done. Does he want to go through the learning curve of teaching a brand new QB his system and hoping he turns out to be capable of mastering the system?

McDaniels made sure he got Orton in the Cutler trade, and that is a big vote of confidence in the guy. Orton is the guy for the next few years at least.

also, i'm sure he will sign a 1 year deal when morew than likely at least 3 other teams will be offering a long term deal to him. so many say he isn't all that good and his only realistic option is Denver. remember guys like Cassell and Anderson. 1 year and paid. Orton has been winning for years now. he will get paid.

kupesdad
12-21-2009, 10:24 AM
Doom will be a UFA in the offseason assuming a new CBA is worked out.

So will Kuper

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-21-2009, 10:27 AM
Orton was on a one year deal wasn't he? Then he will be FA. If we have him RFA we shouldn't give him a dollar! That would be sweet to keep him as a functional backup!

Backup to whom? Who is this QB that we have on the roster that is better than Orton?

Rohirrim
12-21-2009, 10:29 AM
Backup to whom? Who is this QB that we have on the roster that is better than Orton?

He must mean Simms. :rofl:

Requiem
12-21-2009, 10:29 AM
Thanks for the update, Eddie. You've always been a 5-Star prospect when it comes to finances!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-21-2009, 10:30 AM
He must mean Simms. :rofl:

Or some rookie without a minute of experience in the pro game.

Good grief, some people here are just completely uninformed.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-21-2009, 10:33 AM
Doom will be a UFA in the offseason assuming a new CBA is worked out.

Not necessarily. The old CBA that has been voided allows for UFA status after 4 years. That doesn't mean it's going to be in the new one.

In reality, I think it will be there, but there will be an exception for this offseason. Too many teams relied on the understanding that they would have another year of RFA status for some of their players and planned accordingly. It's not just the Broncos who are going to be in that boat, but 31 other teams.

Even if there is a new CBA, I'd bet money that Marshall, Dumervil, Scheffler, etc. will all still be RFAs this offseason.

Rohirrim
12-21-2009, 10:35 AM
Here's the line I'd like to see next year:

Clady
Logan Mankins (FA)
Matt Tennant (the last center we got from Boston College did okay)
Kuper
Harris (and a better backup than Polumbus, since Harris can't seem to stay healthy)

Here's Matt washing some guy's face:
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/644913f421_bc07272009.jpg

Taco John
12-21-2009, 10:55 AM
Or some rookie without a minute of experience in the pro game.

Good grief, some people here are just completely uninformed.


Even still, if we could get away with a one year contract - which I don't think we could - that would be a good move. I think the point that is made that Bowlen may not want to pay Orton for more than a minimum commitment has merit worth pondering. Matt Cassel money is a lot to commit to the guy, and that's going to be the negotiation point for the Orton team.

I hear what you are saying about there not being any better quarterbacks on the roster. But the problem with that (worthwhile) position is that not a single quarterback on our roster was here before last season, including Orton. The time investment in our QB roster is nil. Orton is as replaceable as he'll ever be.

Not that there's a whole lot out there right now. And this is where the people who are backing Orton are spot on. Here is what the 2010 Free Agent list looks like. I'd love for anybody to tell me who is going to give us a better chance to win next year (and make it to the playoffs) than Kyle Orton:

Jason Campbell
Chad Pennington
Tavaris Jackson
Kellen Clemens
Charlie Batch
Kyle Boller
David Carr
Brodie Croyle
Daunte Culpepper
Rex Grossman
Joey Harrington
Jon Kitna
Chris Redman
(Source (http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html)

And chances are, a new CBA isn't going to be agreed upon, and the market will dry up fast with everybody becoming restricted free agents who end up getting pulled back into the organizations that they're currently with.

Outside of the draft, there's not a whole lot of options next year.

Of course, having an extra first round pick instead of Alphonso Smith might have been helpful in that department, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Taco John
12-21-2009, 10:56 AM
Here's the line I'd like to see next year:

Clady
Logan Mankins (FA)
Matt Tennant (the last center we got from Boston College did okay)
Kuper
Harris (and a better backup than Polumbus, since Harris can't seem to stay healthy)

Here's Matt washing some guy's face:
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/644913f421_bc07272009.jpg

Looks absolutely studly.

elsid13
12-21-2009, 10:59 AM
Here's the line I'd like to see next year:

Clady
Logan Mankins (FA)
Matt Tennant (the last center we got from Boston College did okay)
Kuper
Harris (and a better backup than Polumbus, since Harris can't seem to stay healthy)


Mankins is one the Pats top FA that will be resigned. I doubt he hits FA after the season.

epicSocialism4tw
12-21-2009, 11:03 AM
?What will be on the market for these positions:
NT
DE
OG
C
RB

?

elsid13
12-21-2009, 11:06 AM
?What will be on the market for these positions:
NT -Gabe Watson, maybe Wilfork
DE - No one
OG - Mankins (Maybe), Max-Gills (Phi), ONeal (Ne), Baas (SF)
C - No one good
RB - Norwood (Maybe)

?

See above

epicSocialism4tw
12-21-2009, 11:07 AM
Even still, if we could get away with a one year contract - which I don't think we could - that would be a good move. I think the point that is made that Bowlen may not want to pay Orton for more than a minimum commitment has merit worth pondering. Matt Cassel money is a lot to commit to the guy, and that's going to be the negotiation point for the Orton team.

I hear what you are saying about there not being any better quarterbacks on the roster. But the problem with that (worthwhile) position is that not a single quarterback on our roster was here before last season, including Orton. The time investment in our QB roster is nil. Orton is as replaceable as he'll ever be.

Not that there's a whole lot out there right now. And this is where the people who are backing Orton are spot on. Here is what the 2010 Free Agent list looks like. I'd love for anybody to tell me who is going to give us a better chance to win next year (and make it to the playoffs) than Kyle Orton:

Jason Campbell
Chad Pennington
Tavaris Jackson
Kellen Clemens
Charlie Batch
Kyle Boller
David Carr
Brodie Croyle
Daunte Culpepper
Rex Grossman
Joey Harrington
Jon Kitna
Chris Redman
(Source (http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html)

And chances are, a new CBA isn't going to be agreed upon, and the market will dry up fast with everybody becoming restricted free agents who end up getting pulled back into the organizations that they're currently with.

Outside of the draft, there's not a whole lot of options next year.

Of course, having an extra first round pick instead of Alphonso Smith might have been helpful in that department, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Its time to draft Sam Bradford and spend FA money on the lines. Give Orton a year and fill in the gaps with FA's rather than relying on rooks to turn the tide. The positions that the Broncos need are not positions easily controlled by rooks.

Rohirrim
12-21-2009, 12:00 PM
Mankins is one the Pats top FA that will be resigned. I doubt he hits FA after the season.

Who knows? He's from California. Maybe he would like to be closer to home? I imagine he'll listen to offers.

elsid13
12-21-2009, 04:38 PM
Who knows? He's from California. Maybe he would like to be closer to home? I imagine he'll listen to offers.

In Boston Globe he already said he wants resign with NE. Thinks it the best fit for him.

Quoydogs
12-21-2009, 05:17 PM
Even still, if we could get away with a one year contract - which I don't think we could - that would be a good move. I think the point that is made that Bowlen may not want to pay Orton for more than a minimum commitment has merit worth pondering. Matt Cassel money is a lot to commit to the guy, and that's going to be the negotiation point for the Orton team.

I hear what you are saying about there not being any better quarterbacks on the roster. But the problem with that (worthwhile) position is that not a single quarterback on our roster was here before last season, including Orton. The time investment in our QB roster is nil. Orton is as replaceable as he'll ever be.

Not that there's a whole lot out there right now. And this is where the people who are backing Orton are spot on. Here is what the 2010 Free Agent list looks like. I'd love for anybody to tell me who is going to give us a better chance to win next year (and make it to the playoffs) than Kyle Orton:

Jason Campbell
Chad Pennington
Tavaris Jackson
Kellen Clemens
Charlie Batch
Kyle Boller
David Carr
Brodie Croyle
Daunte Culpepper
Rex Grossman
Joey Harrington
Jon Kitna
Chris Redman
(Source (http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html)

And chances are, a new CBA isn't going to be agreed upon, and the market will dry up fast with everybody becoming restricted free agents who end up getting pulled back into the organizations that they're currently with.

Outside of the draft, there's not a whole lot of options next year.

Of course, having an extra first round pick instead of Alphonso Smith might have been helpful in that department, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
Charlie Batch

lex
12-21-2009, 06:06 PM
?What will be on the market for these positions:
NT
DE
OG
C
RB

?

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

lex
12-21-2009, 06:07 PM
Who knows? He's from California. Maybe he would like to be closer to home? I imagine he'll listen to offers.

Yeah, Denver is right down the street.

oubronco
12-21-2009, 06:32 PM
Even still, if we could get away with a one year contract - which I don't think we could - that would be a good move. I think the point that is made that Bowlen may not want to pay Orton for more than a minimum commitment has merit worth pondering. Matt Cassel money is a lot to commit to the guy, and that's going to be the negotiation point for the Orton team.
I hear what you are saying about there not being any better quarterbacks on the roster. But the problem with that (worthwhile) position is that not a single quarterback on our roster was here before last season, including Orton. The time investment in our QB roster is nil. Orton is as replaceable as he'll ever be.

Not that there's a whole lot out there right now. And this is where the people who are backing Orton are spot on. Here is what the 2010 Free Agent list looks like. I'd love for anybody to tell me who is going to give us a better chance to win next year (and make it to the playoffs) than Kyle Orton:

Jason Campbell
Chad Pennington
Tavaris Jackson
Kellen Clemens
Charlie Batch
Kyle Boller
David Carr
Brodie Croyle
Daunte Culpepper
Rex Grossman
Joey Harrington
Jon Kitna
Chris Redman
(Source (http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html)

And chances are, a new CBA isn't going to be agreed upon, and the market will dry up fast with everybody becoming restricted free agents who end up getting pulled back into the organizations that they're currently with.

Outside of the draft, there's not a whole lot of options next year.

Of course, having an extra first round pick instead of Alphonso Smith might have been helpful in that department, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

there is NO WAY in hell Orton gets anywhere near that kind of money

orange 4 life
12-21-2009, 07:26 PM
Sign Orton and Marshall. Do whatever it takes, but lock these two up long term. Period.

eddie mac
12-21-2009, 07:43 PM
Doom will be a UFA in the offseason assuming a new CBA is worked out.

There's more chance of you nailing Beyonce between now and March.

Remember that teams need time to organise their rosters/contracts because a non-cap season is a totally different ball game to a capped one.

Not many owners will go for it now considering.

A. They can spend as little as they want next year.

B. They've already accounted for the majority of their UFA's with under 6 yrs playing time not having much freedom at all.

eddie mac
12-21-2009, 07:46 PM
Sheffler is none too happy about his role here as of late and he knew McD was shopping him in this offseason so like you said he'll get paid I just don't think it will be here

If he's gonna get paid by anyone else we'll be getting a 2nd/3rd rounder back minimum cos he'll get a draft pick tender

eddie mac
12-21-2009, 07:49 PM
Sheff has the most catches by a TE in the league over the last three years untill Joshie came to town. The guy is 6'5 and 255 and runs a sub 4.6, would you be happy?

You sure about that???

You'd think if a TE led the league in receptions over a 3 year period he'd get at least some recognition in the Pro Bowl ballots.

Try Dallas Clark, or maybe Gates, who've both caught near double the balls Scheff has.

colonelbeef
12-21-2009, 09:33 PM
Shanahan really set this team up with those 3 drafts netting so many late round starters.

SoCalBronco
12-21-2009, 09:38 PM
Sign Orton and Marshall. Do whatever it takes, but lock these two up long term. Period.

There are alot of risks associated with Marshall that can't be properly insured since the CBA largely prohibits morals clauses. Still, it may be that DEN might have no choice but to assume the risk given that he's arguably the No. 1 WR in the league at this point. It is still a difficult question.

I'm not sure what the benefit to signing Orton to a long term deal would be....unless it would be as a backup. He's gritty, safe, workmanlike and usually efficient but has real limitations, crumbles against the blitz and scares all of no one.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-21-2009, 09:42 PM
Shanahan really set this team up with those 3 drafts netting so many late round starters.

Huh? I hope that's sarcasm and you're not actually serious.

Depends on what's your def'n of late rounds is too.

Starters from Shanahan's last 3 drafts:

Marshall- 4th, that's a mid-round pick for me
Dumervil- 4th, ditto
Kuper- 6th, definitely late round
Harris- 3rd, mid-round
Clady- 1st, obviously early
Royal- 2nd, early

So, there's 1 starter from the late rounds (by my personal def'n) and even if you include Marshall and Dumervil, that's 3. 3 ****ing starters doesn't qualify as "netting so many late round starters".

DJ is the only Shanahan pick that's a starter that's not on that list. 0 players on the roster from '03, only DJ from '04, the '05 draft was 4 years ago and there's no one left, and the '07 draft is down to 2 guys. That's ****ing horrendous and indefensible.

Popps
12-21-2009, 09:45 PM
You sure about that???

You'd think if a TE led the league in receptions over a 3 year period he'd get at least some recognition in the Pro Bowl ballots.

Try Dallas Clark, or maybe Gates, who've both caught near double the balls Scheff has.

:rofl:

Good lord. You have to love these people.


By the way, all of you on the "Panic About Scheffler" committee...

2008 with "Franchise" quarterback... Schefflerr had: 40 catches.

20090 with winning QB... Scheffler has 30 catches with two games remaining.


So... by season's end, the uproar over Scheffler's "lack of catches" will likely involve about 5 balls, over an entire season.



Great cause. Get involved, people! Bitch it up!!

:thumbs:

Hercules Rockefeller
12-21-2009, 09:46 PM
I'm not sure what the benefit to signing Orton to a long term deal would be....unless it would be as a backup. He's gritty, safe, workmanlike and usually efficient but has real limitations, crumbles against the blitz and scares all of no one.

Orton has 0 incentive to sign a short-term deal, he's also not going to accept backup pay after the deals Garrad and Cassel have been given.

Either they take a QB in the 1st this year and tender Orton for the year, or they commit long-term to him. Because you sure as hell don't pass on a QB early and tender him for a year, unless you plan to either turn it over to Brandstater in '11 or sign Orton long-term after the '10 season. There is no middle ground on this one.

SoCalBronco
12-21-2009, 09:59 PM
Orton has 0 incentive to sign a short-term deal, he's also not going to accept backup pay after the deals Garrad and Cassel have been given.

Either they take a QB in the 1st this year and tender Orton for the year, or they commit long-term to him. Because you sure as hell don't pass on a QB early and tender him for a year, unless you plan to either turn it over to Brandstater in '11 or sign Orton long-term after the '10 season. There is no middle ground on this one.

Why would he have "zero incentive" to sign a short term deal? I'm pretty sure the league isn't going to be knocking down his door offering megabucks. There will be anywhere from 1/4 to 1/3 of the league that will probably offer him a halfway decent long term deal, but that's probably it. He's not exactly in huge demand. Keep in mind that the league sees how good of a QB coach Josh is. They saw him turn Cassel into a stud last year (he was playing on a level that is probably superior to Orton 2009) and now Cassel has been exposed as ****. The league saw what Orton was prior to Josh and it wasn't pretty. Kyle does some good things but I don't think his abstract market value is very high.

If, however, you are correct and it is basically an all or nothing proposition, then I would prefer to wish him well.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-21-2009, 10:03 PM
Why would he have "zero incentive" to sign a short term deal? I'm pretty sure the league isn't going to be knocking down his door offering megabucks. There will be anywhere from 1/4 to 1/3 of the league that will probably offer him a halfway decent long term deal, but that's probably it. He's not exactly in huge demand. Keep in mind that the league sees how good of a QB coach Josh is. They saw him turn Cassel into a stud last year (he was playing on a level that is probably superior to Orton 2009) and now Cassel has been exposed as ****. The league saw what Orton was prior to Josh and it wasn't pretty. Kyle does some good things but I don't think his abstract market value is very high.

If you are indeed correct and it is basically an all or nothing proposition, then I would prefer to wish him well.

For better or worse, Pioli set the market with Cassel and Kyle and his agent have something to go off of. Kyle is a better QB than Cassel and he wins games, which is the point in this league. He did it Chicago, which last time I checked was pre-Josh. What's his record as a starter now? There aren't very many guys who have a higher winning % than Kyle. This isn't a defense of him, nor pimping him for a long-term deal, it's reality.

Kyle with an RFA tender? Probably 0 real interest. Kyle as a UFA, I'd bet he gets snapped up much quicker and with a larger contract than people here think he's worth.

SoCalBronco
12-21-2009, 10:11 PM
For better or worse, Pioli set the market with Cassel and Kyle and his agent have something to go off of. Kyle is a better QB than Cassel and he wins games, which is the point in this league. He did it Chicago, which last time I checked was pre-Josh. What's his record as a starter now? There aren't very many guys who have a higher winning % than Kyle. This isn't a defense of him, nor pimping him for a long-term deal, it's reality.

Kyle with an RFA tender? Probably 0 real interest. Kyle as a UFA, I'd bet he gets snapped up much quicker and with a larger contract than people here think he's worth.

See...I think the Cassel thing works the exact opposite way. People were going off of the NE Cassel not the KC Cassel. They now see that he's largely a product of NE's talent and Josh's coaching. The Cassel contract will SCARE people when it comes to Orton because you have the same potential dynamic. And with Orton its arguably more risky than Cassel (in terms of making the assumption based on the year of play with Josh) because prior to last year no one had anything to go off of with Cassel, so you couldn't really say...oh he sucks without Josh. Here, you can say that with Orton because everyone saw how underwhelming he was as a Bear. So....I don't agree that it's a "reality". The agent will pimp it.....but people aren't going to buy it. Cassel getting paid and then flopping was a very bad development for Kyle's financial prospects, not a good one. Just a disagreement I guess. The "winning games" thing is nice, but its an exercise in intellectual laziness. Jay Barker was like 37-1 at Alabama, but guess what, he wasn't worth much more than a pitcher of warm spit. This is a fact intensive, evaluation intensive league. When they break film down of you to rank you as a FA prospect, they are looking at YOUR film. The guy writing up the report doesn't care that your team won 16-10. He is evaluating YOU on your own strengths and weaknesses.

If people want to throw major money at Kyle...that's their business. I don't think more than a handful of teams will throw anything of real substance at him. I don't think Denver should feel pressured into giving him a long term deal that's worth real money. That's reserved for elite, real talents. If he insists on getting paid well, he can try his hand elsewhere. If he's willing to take a 2-3 year deal for 3-4 million a year, I wouldn't have a problem at all, because he's shown he can at least be efficient and a solid, hardworking stopgap for awhile until we can get a long term answer.

SouthStndJunkie
12-21-2009, 10:19 PM
Sheff has the most catches by a TE in the league over the last three years untill Joshie came to town. The guy is 6'5 and 255 and runs a sub 4.6, would you be happy?

That is incorrect.

Right off the top of my head, I can think of several that have had more catches than Scheffler from 2006 to 2008.

2006 to 2008:

Tony Scheffler: 107 catches

Antonio Gates: 206 catches
Todd Heap: 131 catches
Heath Miller: 129 catches
Owen Daniels: 167 catches
Dallas Clark: 165 catches
Jason Witten: 241 catches
Chris Cooley: 206 catches
Tony Gonzalez: 268 catches
Jeremy Shockey: 173 catches
Kellen Winslow: 214 catches

I like Tony Scheffler as much as the next Denver fan, but let's be accurate.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-21-2009, 10:30 PM
Intellectual laziness? Jeez, SoCal. Orton's now done it 2 places, amazingly 2 places that Quarterback Jesus hasn't been able to. That counts for something as much as you try to wish it away. Remember Plummer's contract compared to what he'd done in his career at that point? **** like that is the going rate to sign a free agent QB. ****, IIRC, Plummer wasn't even over .500 as a starter for his career until his 3rd season here.

Check the contracts out that starters are receiving, and I'm not talking about the 9-figure contracts for the superstars.

Kyle sits at 15th in passer rating; removing all QBs from 11-20 who are on their contracts still (V Young, Flacco, J Campbell, and Matt Ryan), this leaves us with:

Warner- just signed a new deal this past offseason, $11.5M per for 2 seasons
Eli- approx. $14M per year; tonight might have moved him into the top 10 in passer rating
V Young- rookie deal still
Flacco- rookie deal still
Orton- rookie deal still
Campbell- rookie deal still
Palmer- $20M per year average, signed in '05
Gerrard- $10M per year, IIRC signed just this past offseason
Hasselbeck- approx. $8M per year in '05
Ryan- rookie deal

Plus you have the most recent that's been discussed, Cassel's $10.5M per year average.

That's the league's middle third average contract. Where do you think Orton's starting point is going to be? He's going to be paid by someone if he hits the open market, and it will be long-term.

brncs_fan
12-21-2009, 10:31 PM
That is incorrect.

Right off the top of my head, I can think of several that have had more catches than Scheffler from 2006 to 2008.

2006 to 2008:

Tony Scheffler: 107 catches

Antonio Gates: 206 catches
Todd Heap: 131 catches
Heath Miller: 129 catches
Owen Daniels: 167 catches
Dallas Clark: 165 catches
Jason Witten: 241 catches
Chris Cooley: 206 catches
Tony Gonzalez: 268 catches
Jeremy Shockey: 173 catches
Kellen Winslow: 214 catches

I like Tony Scheffler as much as the next Denver fan, but let's be accurate.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe if you had studied under Walsh you would have a clue. [/sarcasm]

Xenos
12-21-2009, 10:41 PM
Wow, that sounds like a good position, just have to wait to see what we do.

It's been a long time if I remember right since Denver had so much room. Probably since before I can remember.

But "room" prolly isn't the right word since there is no cap. Prolly better to just say since Denver had such a low payroll commitment in relation to what Bowlen is perpared to spend.

There still is a cap in 2010. The cap actually increases by 30% due to a provision in the original CBA. The true uncap year isn't until 2011, and if no new CBA gets done by then you're looking at a lockout.

~Crash~
12-29-2009, 12:24 PM
Gary Miller said expect Bowlen to save "pennies on the dollar" so I think you are right. Synder will get a bargain the next two years

I don't buy that at all Mike someday wants to own the Broncos So I think he will want the skins to poney up all his contract.

Ray Finkle
12-29-2009, 12:30 PM
I don't buy that at all Mike someday wants to own the Broncos So I think he will want the skins to poney up all his contract.

I think the Shanahan owning the Broncos ship has sailed...

~Crash~
12-29-2009, 12:32 PM
Mike would want Schef

and a few other of our players. Hamlton will be a texan

~Crash~
12-29-2009, 12:33 PM
I think the Shanahan owning the Broncos ship has sailed...

that depends on him having cash and in good standing with pat. I think he is fine on both fronts .

NFLBRONCO
12-29-2009, 12:34 PM
If Bowlen does do penny pinching route again in 2010 how do you approach upgrading team?

~Crash~
12-29-2009, 12:35 PM
If Bowlen does do penny pinching route again in 2010 how do you approach upgrading team?trading down in the draft 5 or 6 time would be a great start .

~Crash~
12-29-2009, 12:36 PM
thing is are we even close ? I think not at this point

NFLBRONCO
12-29-2009, 12:41 PM
trading down in the draft 5 or 6 time would be a great start .

One of the areas I am upset with Baskin is we could have stockpiled picks for several drafts to bolster our team. I know draft picks are a crap shoot but, if we do penny pinch for a few years imo this is the cheapest route to take with so many needs.

Popps
12-29-2009, 12:52 PM
thing is are we even close ? I think not at this point

With even a healthy O-line, I think we may have beaten Philly on Sunday. Philly is arguably as good as any NFC playoff time right now.

We fell just short against the Colts.

We beat the Pats and Chargers earlier in the season when we were healthy and playing well.

Why would you assume we're "not even close?"


Give us a healthy Harris, at least one more quality starter on the O-line, an impact front seven player for the defense and the continued development of our younger guys... and we'll be a playoff team next year.

We may still make the playoffs this season. So, to say we're not even close isn't really fair. We've certainly got work to do, but I'm optimistic after seeing this thing come together so quickly.

eddie mac
12-29-2009, 12:55 PM
There still is a cap in 2010. The cap actually increases by 30% due to a provision in the original CBA. The true uncap year isn't until 2011, and if no new CBA gets done by then you're looking at a lockout.

There is no maximum or mininum amount a team can spend on players in 2010, thus there is no salary cap. Where on earth did you get this 30% increased cap from???