Hey progressives

[Bronx33]

Do you feel stabbed in the back by obama after failing to follow through on single payer and dropping to his knees for big pharma? it appears we the people take it in the ass as usual and insurance companies raise rates and line their pockets ( sweet deal! Mr O!) i wonder what other hope and change he has planned for the next 3 years?

[Smiling Assassin27]

dude, it's all the GOP's fault, didn't you get the memo? the GOP, tea partiers, conservative bloggers, and talk show hosts all conspired to turn obama into a spineless, politically motivated, indecisive, shill for special interests that is incapable of honesty, transparency, presidential etiquette, or clear policy making.

No, it seems that when the son of Jorel came to Earth, his powers were sapped by the Lex Luthors of the GOP who turned him into just another Democratic schlub who never met a spending package he didn't like and a mainstream American he didn't hate.

Racists, all of them.

[Bronx33]

Word is simlulas package part 3 is coming down the pike no fears though the printing presses have all be serviced and are ready for action we will just print the problem away.

[UberBroncoMan]

I thought Bush was a ****ing retard for neglecting the economy as much as he did and for the bailouts..

But since Obama (who I didn't vote for btw since I thought he was a ****ing p***Y) Washington D.C. has actually gotten WORSE. Oh and Obama hasn't proven me wrong yet.

On top of this the stimulus (great work on job creation btw haha) money has gone to their heads. They're ****ing lunatics up there. I heard $6 million of the stimulus went to help out an Obama campaign member's company so that the company could save the jobs of its employees. Funny fact... the company only had 3 people in it. AKA payoff with our tax dollars. WAY TO GO!

Washington D.C. is nothing more than a corrupt cesspool that has only been further ****ed up by Chicago style politics. Speaking of Chicago... what a ****ing mess of a city.

All the Democrats are doing right now is trying to get as much money and entrenchment to expand our government as quickly as possible so when they are voted out for being fiscally irresponsible ****tards, the damage will be pretty much irreparable.

... I wonder though if the Republicans will actually do what is needed if they gain legislative power in 2010.

In all honesty, this nation needs a 3rd party. The biggest issue though is that I think Liberals are entrenched in their socialist viewpoint so they won't budge. I do a lot of work with Liberals etc (who aren't dumb at what they do and are largely good people), and yet practically all of them are complete idiots when it comes to understanding the economy or foreign affairs.

Then you have the fresh out of high school/college crowd which just want to be with what's cool. They'll go with whoever is all over YouTube etc. Oh darn, that's monopolized by the socialists.

On top of this people are getting poor due largely to our pathetic management of the economy and they're being promised health care, and all this **** that WE can't REALLY afford. I mean honestly, Health Care will lower the deficits my a-hole... yeah lower the federal one and increase state deficits up the yin yang.

Meanwhile if there was a 3rd party 1/2 the Republican and Independent base would likely join it but the retention by the Democrats would probably roll... sooooo not going to work.

This entire country is a ****ing mess.

I just wish all the people that keep rising to the top politically (from all sides) weren't largely all a bunch of narcasistic, me first, a-holes.

[Bronx33]

cue LABF to blame bush.

[TheDave]

Do you feel stabbed in the back by obama after failing to follow through on single payer and dropping to his knees for big pharma? it appears we the people take it in the ass as usual and insurance companies raise rates and line their pockets ( sweet deal! Mr O!) i wonder what other hope and change he has planned for the next 3 years?

This countries political system is so ****ing broken, nothing suprises me anymore. Hell, Wall Street including (specifically, the banks and insurers) just unleashed one of the biggest cluster ****s ever on the american people and we still have nothing resembling a reform bill.

So... no I don't feel anymore stabbed in the back than I have for the last 15 years or so.

[Tombstone RJ]

The federal goverment is out of control. The Executive Branch is a joke. Congress is a joke. The Judicial Branch is a joke.

Its all a pathetic display of hypcrisy and power mongoring.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Do you feel stabbed in the back by obama...

Not really.

I wasn't really expecting Obama to deliver on much of anything I wanted.

I was the guy who kept trying to point out that, contrary to what the righties around here were claiming during the run-up to the election, Obama was NOT "far left" or a "socialist."

If you recall, I only decided at the last minute to vote for Obama when the rethugs put Palin on their ticket.

Another lesser of evils vote.

That said, there's no way Obama could be anywhere near as horrible a disaster for America as Bush.

It still amazes me how Bush cheerleaders like you suddenly give a crap about health care and so many other issues.

[Bronx33]

This countries political system is so ****ing broken, nothing suprises me anymore. Hell, Wall Street including (specifically, the banks and insurers) just unleashed one of the biggest cluster ****s ever on the american people and we still have nothing resembling a reform bill.

So... no I don't feel anymore stabbed in the back than I have for the last 15 years or so.

:P i hear ya dave iam just sick and tired of the arrogance/stupidity/naiveness of this administration and the damage it's doing it's like a everyday thing now.

[Bronx33]

Not really.

I wasn't really expecting Obama to deliver on much of anything I wanted.

I was the guy who kept trying to point out that, contrary to what the righties around here were claiming during the run-up to the election, Obama was NOT "far left" or a "socialist."

If you recall, I only decided at the last minute to vote for Obama when the rethugs put Palin on their ticket.

Another lesser of evils vote.

That said, there's no way Obama could be anywhere near as horrible a disaster for America as Bush.

It still amazes me how Bush cheerleaders like you suddenly give a crap about health care and so many other issues.



That has yet to be determined and please stop with the i supported bush BS it just isn't true and you know it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

cue LABF to blame bush.

Cue Bronx33 to pretend those eight years of the wanton destruction of America by Bush and one of the most unashamedly corrupt and criminal GOP Congresses in U.S. history never happened.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

...and please stop with the i supported bush BS it just isn't true and you know it.

Bullsh*t.

At the very least, you remained silent while BushCo was raping America.

[Bronx33]

I shook my head from side to side ( does that count?)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I shook my head from side to side ( does that count?)

No.

Especially not when you are here criticizing Obama's every move.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This countries political system is so ****ing broken, nothing suprises me anymore. Hell, Wall Street including (specifically, the banks and insurers) just unleashed one of the biggest cluster ****s ever on the american people and we still have nothing resembling a reform bill.

So... no I don't feel anymore stabbed in the back than I have for the last 15 years or so.

Funny how the same right-wing handjobs who cheered and defended the in-your-face, who-cares-if-you-don't-like-it criminality and corruption of Bush and the GOP for eight years now suddenly give a f_ck.

[Bronx33]

So in order to match your level of political awesomeness LA i should b**** and cry and stamp my feet sacrifice a chicken and rub it on a bush effigy take pictures and post them on a bronco message board for 8 years straight to earn your respect?






cram it in your ass you dumb ****ing idiot... and it's time to move on ok bush is gone we have a whole new dumbass to make fun of.

[TheDave]

Funny how the same right-wing handjobs who cheered and defended the in-your-face, who-cares-if-you-don't-like-it criminality and corruption of Bush and the GOP for eight years now suddenly give a f_ck.

Oh trust me... I know.

My favorite is how they all became born again fiscal conservatives about 10 months ago. :~ohyah!

[cutthemdown]

Obama doing about as well as I thought he would. I am impressed democrats seem to be doing a good job at getting to 60 on the bills they want to pass.

I also think despite the healthcare bill being nothing like they said it would be, if they can pass anything, then will be able to spin it as a victory. That despite the fact it wont do anything for what 3 yrs? Repubs should be happy the killed he public option, the early medicare buy in, and got stronger abortion language in it.

Really the reform bill only makes people have to buy insurance. Wow that was brilliant, and to think we waited 40 yrs for that. Thanks Obamacare, you are amazing.

[TheDave]

:P i hear ya dave iam just sick and tired of the arrogance/stupidity/naiveness of this administration and the damage it's doing it's like a everyday thing now.

It's no different than the arrogance/stupidity/naiveness of the last 15 years... Everyone of these SOB's is bought and paid for.

[Bronx33]

It's no different than the arrogance/stupidity/naiveness of the last 15 years... Everyone of these SOB's is bought and paid for.


agreed...

[barryr]

Most people in the country care more about jobs and helping the economy, yet these bozos focus on this instead. Yeah, the jobs and the ecomony will just improve just like that because of the time used on healthcare. Great job, who could have guessed the politicians could be this dumb?

[peacepipe]

Do you feel stabbed in the back by obama after failing to follow through on single payer and dropping to his knees for big pharma? it appears we the people take it in the ass as usual and insurance companies raise rates and line their pockets ( sweet deal! Mr O!) i wonder what other hope and change he has planned for the next 3 years?

This is only the 1st step,medicare & social security were very weak when they were first passed. Through the adding of amendments year after year medicare became better & stronger. We may have only gotten a half loaf today but we'll eventually get the whole loaf as this moves along over the years. To answer your question,no, I don't feel stabbed in the back, Lieberman, lincoln, landreiu,& Nelson are the cancers in the Dem. party that kept us from getting the whole loaf. So if I feel stabbed in the back by anyone it's those four.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

cram it in your ass you dumb ****ing idiot... and it's time to move on ok bush is gone we have a whole new dumbass to make fun of.

That's the whole point, you f_cking moron: You never "made fun of" or otherwise criticized Bush or his rubber stamp GOP Congress while they raped and pillaged America for eight years, and now, all of a sudden, you're here every day pretending you care about issues.

You're a f_cking hypocrite of world-class proportions.

[mhgaffney]

Yes, it is sleazy the way the former Bush fans attack Obama.

Now -- we are supposed to believe that Palin is a populist.

Notice to anyone who swallows this line - you might be interested in looking at some prime tropical beach front property in Nome Alaska. A real steal.

[cutthemdown]

Yes, it is sleazy the way the former Bush fans attack Obama.

Now -- we are supposed to believe that Palin is a populist.

Notice to anyone who swallows this line - you might be interested in looking at some prime tropical beach front property in Nome Alaska. A real steal.

I know a ton of Republicans that won't vote for her. IMO we could see a new party one day made up of the non-religious republicans, and the conservative democrats and independents like Lieberman and Nelson etc.

Unless you are really religious and feel those issues just take precedent over everything else I don't see how people can like Palin. It's very odd to me she is so powerful. The only thing that creates power is money so she is getting if from somewhere.

[mhgaffney]

Palin supports the proposed Pebble Gold Mine -- reputed to be a mother lode -- very near Lake Clark NP -- in Alaska -- smack in the best sockeye spawning grounds on the planet.

Any gold mine in this area will destroy one of the last best wild places.

Clearly Palin is in Wall Street's pocket. If she were truly a populist she would oppose the mine.

All of the Alaskan sport and commercial fishing industry opposes it:

http://www.sportsmansalliance4ak.com/Latest_News.html

[bpc]

I thought Bush was a ****ing retard for neglecting the economy as much as he did and for the bailouts..

But since Obama (who I didn't vote for btw since I thought he was a ****ing p***Y) Washington D.C. has actually gotten WORSE. Oh and Obama hasn't proven me wrong yet.

On top of this the stimulus (great work on job creation btw haha) money has gone to their heads. They're ****ing lunatics up there. I heard $6 million of the stimulus went to help out an Obama campaign member's company so that the company could save the jobs of its employees. Funny fact... the company only had 3 people in it. AKA payoff with our tax dollars. WAY TO GO!

Washington D.C. is nothing more than a corrupt cesspool that has only been further ****ed up by Chicago style politics. Speaking of Chicago... what a ****ing mess of a city.

All the Democrats are doing right now is trying to get as much money and entrenchment to expand our government as quickly as possible so when they are voted out for being fiscally irresponsible ****tards, the damage will be pretty much irreparable.

... I wonder though if the Republicans will actually do what is needed if they gain legislative power in 2010.

In all honesty, this nation needs a 3rd party. The biggest issue though is that I think Liberals are entrenched in their socialist viewpoint so they won't budge. I do a lot of work with Liberals etc (who aren't dumb at what they do and are largely good people), and yet practically all of them are complete idiots when it comes to understanding the economy or foreign affairs.

Then you have the fresh out of high school/college crowd which just want to be with what's cool. They'll go with whoever is all over YouTube etc. Oh darn, that's monopolized by the socialists.

On top of this people are getting poor due largely to our pathetic management of the economy and they're being promised health care, and all this **** that WE can't REALLY afford. I mean honestly, Health Care will lower the deficits my a-hole... yeah lower the federal one and increase state deficits up the yin yang.

Meanwhile if there was a 3rd party 1/2 the Republican and Independent base would likely join it but the retention by the Democrats would probably roll... sooooo not going to work.

This entire country is a ****ing mess.

I just wish all the people that keep rising to the top politically (from all sides) weren't largely all a bunch of narcasistic, me first, a-holes.

Nail, meet hammer. Great post.

[peacepipe]

I thought Bush was a ****ing retard for neglecting the economy as much as he did and for the bailouts..

But since Obama (who I didn't vote for btw since I thought he was a ****ing p***Y) Washington D.C. has actually gotten WORSE. Oh and Obama hasn't proven me wrong yet.

On top of this the stimulus (great work on job creation btw haha) money has gone to their heads. They're ****ing lunatics up there. I heard $6 million of the stimulus went to help out an Obama campaign member's company so that the company could save the jobs of its employees. Funny fact... the company only had 3 people in it. AKA payoff with our tax dollars. WAY TO GO!

Washington D.C. is nothing more than a corrupt cesspool that has only been further ****ed up by Chicago style politics. Speaking of Chicago... what a ****ing mess of a city.

All the Democrats are doing right now is trying to get as much money and entrenchment to expand our government as quickly as possible so when they are voted out for being fiscally irresponsible ****tards, the damage will be pretty much irreparable.

... I wonder though if the Republicans will actually do what is needed if they gain legislative power in 2010.

In all honesty, this nation needs a 3rd party. The biggest issue though is that I think Liberals are entrenched in their socialist viewpoint so they won't budge. I do a lot of work with Liberals etc (who aren't dumb at what they do and are largely good people), and yet practically all of them are complete idiots when it comes to understanding the economy or foreign affairs.

Then you have the fresh out of high school/college crowd which just want to be with what's cool. They'll go with whoever is all over YouTube etc. Oh darn, that's monopolized by the socialists.

On top of this people are getting poor due largely to our pathetic management of the economy and they're being promised health care, and all this **** that WE can't REALLY afford. I mean honestly, Health Care will lower the deficits my a-hole... yeah lower the federal one and increase state deficits up the yin yang.

Meanwhile if there was a 3rd party 1/2 the Republican and Independent base would likely join it but the retention by the Democrats would probably roll... sooooo not going to work.

This entire country is a ****ing mess.

I just wish all the people that keep rising to the top politically (from all sides) weren't largely all a bunch of narcasistic, me first, a-holes.The rantings of a typical teabagger, acts like he knows it all but can only offer rumors & innuendos as proof.

[BroncoBuff]

I'm very disappointed. I'd rather see him fight for what's right and lose - rather than watch Joe Lieberman squirm his way to kill health care reform.

Joe Lieberman is human refuse.

[BroncoBuff]

cue LABF to blame bush.

The economic meltdown is definitely Bush's fault.

Obama's efforts to fix it might fall short, but he didn' cause the problem.

[bpc]

The economic meltdown is definitely Bush's fault.

Obama's efforts to fix it might fall short, but he didn' cause the problem.

What? Real Estate Meltdown? Clinton? CDA? The real estate meltdown accounts for much of this countries economic problems and Clinton should be synonymous with it's crash. After all he reaped the reward when money was getting passed out freely because of it, the economic growth the US had from it. Now when it's stupid strategy caused banks to crash, it's trendy to just pin the failure on George W. Bush?

----------------------------------------------

Bill Clinton's drive to increase homeownership went way too far
Posted by: Peter Coy on February 27

Add President Clinton to the long list of people who deserve a share of the blame for the housing bubble and bust. A recently re-exposed document shows that his administration went to ridiculous lengths to increase the national homeownership rate. It promoted paper-thin downpayments and pushed for ways to get lenders to give mortgage loans to first-time buyers with shaky financing and incomes. It’s clear now that the erosion of lending standards pushed prices up by increasing demand, and later led to waves of defaults by people who never should have bought a home in the first place.

President Bush continued the practices because they dovetailed with his Ownership Society goals, and of course Congress was strongly behind the push. But Clinton and his administration must shoulder some of the blame.

In writing this blog entry, I’m following the lead of Joseph R. Mason, who is a finance professor at Drexel University’s LeBow College of Business, a senior fellow at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, and a consultant at Criterion Economics. Here is a link to a piece that he wrote on Feb. 26.

The Clinton-era document that Mason cites—“The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream”—was hiding in plain sight

on the website of the Department of Housing & Urban Development until last year, when according to Mason it was removed (probably because the housing bust made it seem embarrassing to the department). Mason credits Joshua Rosner of Graham Fisher & Co. with saving a copy of it before it was expunged.

The National Homeownership Strategy began in 1994 when Clinton directed HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros to come up with a plan, and Cisneros convened what HUD called a "historic meeting" of private and public housing-industry organizations in August 1994. The group eventually produced a plan, of which Mason sent me a PDF of Chapter 4, the one that argues for creative measures to promote homeownership.

The very worst idea in the plan, which fortunately never gained approval, was to let first-time homebuyers freely tap their IRA and 401(k) retirement-savings plans with no penalty to scrounge up a downpayment. That, HUD estimated, would have "benefited" 600,000 families in the first five years.

Plenty of other ideas in the plan did become reality, though. Knowing what we know now about the housing bust, the earnest language in the document seems faintly ridiculous. Here's an excerpt. Read it closely and you can see the seeds of disaster being planted:

For many potential homebuyers, the lack of cash available to accumulate the required downpayment and closing costs is the major impediment to purchasing a home. Other households do not have sufficient available income to to make the monthly payments on mortgages financed at market interest rates for standard loan terms. Financing strategies, fueled by the creativity and resources of the private and public sectors, should address both of these financial barriers to homeownership.

Note the praise for "creativity." That kind of creativity in stretching boundaries we could use less of. Mason puts it well: "It strikes me as reckless to promote home sales to individuals in such constrained financial predicaments."

[peacepipe]

What? Real Estate Meltdown? Clinton? CDA? The real estate meltdown accounts for much of this countries economic problems and Clinton should be synonymous with it's crash. After all he reaped the reward when money was getting passed out freely because of it, the economic growth the US had from it. Now when it's stupid strategy caused banks to crash, it's trendy to just pin the failure on George W. Bush?

----------------------------------------------

Bill Clinton's drive to increase homeownership went way too far
Posted by: Peter Coy on February 27

Add President Clinton to the long list of people who deserve a share of the blame for the housing bubble and bust. A recently re-exposed document shows that his administration went to ridiculous lengths to increase the national homeownership rate. It promoted paper-thin downpayments and pushed for ways to get lenders to give mortgage loans to first-time buyers with shaky financing and incomes. It’s clear now that the erosion of lending standards pushed prices up by increasing demand, and later led to waves of defaults by people who never should have bought a home in the first place.

President Bush continued the practices because they dovetailed with his Ownership Society goals, and of course Congress was strongly behind the push. But Clinton and his administration must shoulder some of the blame.

In writing this blog entry, I’m following the lead of Joseph R. Mason, who is a finance professor at Drexel University’s LeBow College of Business, a senior fellow at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, and a consultant at Criterion Economics. Here is a link to a piece that he wrote on Feb. 26.

The Clinton-era document that Mason cites—“The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream”—was hiding in plain sight

on the website of the Department of Housing & Urban Development until last year, when according to Mason it was removed (probably because the housing bust made it seem embarrassing to the department). Mason credits Joshua Rosner of Graham Fisher & Co. with saving a copy of it before it was expunged.

The National Homeownership Strategy began in 1994 when Clinton directed HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros to come up with a plan, and Cisneros convened what HUD called a "historic meeting" of private and public housing-industry organizations in August 1994. The group eventually produced a plan, of which Mason sent me a PDF of Chapter 4, the one that argues for creative measures to promote homeownership.

The very worst idea in the plan, which fortunately never gained approval, was to let first-time homebuyers freely tap their IRA and 401(k) retirement-savings plans with no penalty to scrounge up a downpayment. That, HUD estimated, would have "benefited" 600,000 families in the first five years.

Plenty of other ideas in the plan did become reality, though. Knowing what we know now about the housing bust, the earnest language in the document seems faintly ridiculous. Here's an excerpt. Read it closely and you can see the seeds of disaster being planted:

For many potential homebuyers, the lack of cash available to accumulate the required downpayment and closing costs is the major impediment to purchasing a home. Other households do not have sufficient available income to to make the monthly payments on mortgages financed at market interest rates for standard loan terms. Financing strategies, fueled by the creativity and resources of the private and public sectors, should address both of these financial barriers to homeownership.

Note the praise for "creativity." That kind of creativity in stretching boundaries we could use less of. Mason puts it well: "It strikes me as reckless to promote home sales to individuals in such constrained financial predicaments."

And here's your typical GWB apologists,if you can't blame Obama,then blame Clinton for it.

[bpc]

I didn't vote for GWB. Thanks tho.

Fact is, nobody can deny that this bank crash isn't directly tied to Clinton and the stupid lax lending initiative he and his cabinet founded.

"HOME OWNERSHIP IS GREAT, EVERYBODY SHOULD BE ABLE TO OWN A HOME!!!"

Wrong. That's why we have credit in this country, that's why it should almost be mandated that you have 20% to put down on a home and financial records should be flipped upside down to see what makes you, as a consumer, tick.

Instead, Clinton administered what amounted to lethal injection into our economies blood. We took the livin large and in charge, 30k millionaire population and offered them homes on the cheap and with little gatekeepers to stop them from ****ing themselves and worst yet, the rest of us and our economy.

Clinton got the economic boost he wanted, unfortunately we didn't know the actual cost until about 10-12 years later.

[Bronx33]

And here's your typical GWB apologists,if you can't blame Obama,then blame Clinton for it.


Apologists? well clinton did start the bad loan wave didn't he.:kiddingme

[mhgaffney]

Clinton set the stage for Bush.

I covered this in chapter 10 of my book:

www.the911mysteryplane.com

[rastaman]

Do you feel stabbed in the back by obama after failing to follow through on single payer and dropping to his knees for big pharma? it appears we the people take it in the ass as usual and insurance companies raise rates and line their pockets ( sweet deal! Mr O!) i wonder what other hope and change he has planned for the next 3 years?

Actually I feel stabbed in the back by 4 Democrat Senators who have killed both the Public Option and Single Payer. Those Senators are Bacus-Mont, Landreu(sp) La., Nelson-Neb, and Lieberman-Indep-Conn. These are the 4 Senators who killed the public option, of which over 75% of liberal-progressive and independent voters wanted.

The President doesn't make law nor pass laws, bills, and legislation in the country its the Senate. The Democratic-Liberal, progressive-independent voters should be pissed as hell at the 4 lone Senators the killed th public option. And as a result, a PAC needs to be developed to target and unseat those 4 incumbent Senator that prevented meaningful health-care reform and kick them out of office with candidates who believe in Single-payer.

Obama should feel stabbed in the back by those 4 Corporate Democrats and so should Progressive-Liberal Democratic voters.

As for Obama's compromising with Big Pharama...well duh! Do you realize thanks to the Reagan Tax cuts over the last 28 years how much wealth and power and influence corporations like Big Pharma can now wield? In all reality, these monopolies such as Pharama can actually destroy a sitting Presidents presidency before it even gets started.

I don't believe that the avg. American should be proud nor happy that a corporation or corporations can force a/any sitting President into a compromising position to benefit the Corporations at the expense of "We-The-People"!

So Bronx33, any sitting President would be lucky to get any change done when your Congress or key members in a Congress has been compromised by the Corporations as well as Obama having no other choice but to compromise with BIG PHARMA and Corporate monopolies just to live to fight for another day.

We all witnessed the disaster over the last 8 years what a Presidency can bring on this country when the corporate power and interest is put ahead of our democracy and its people. It looks like the Corporations are kicking ass once again. With their Congressional enablers, their wealth, power, and influence....the American people did not get real health care reform that they wanted.

[rastaman]

I didn't vote for GWB. Thanks tho.

Fact is, nobody can deny that this bank crash isn't directly tied to Clinton and the stupid lax lending initiative he and his cabinet founded.

"HOME OWNERSHIP IS GREAT, EVERYBODY SHOULD BE ABLE TO OWN A HOME!!!"

Wrong. That's why we have credit in this country, that's why it should almost be mandated that you have 20% to put down on a home and financial records should be flipped upside down to see what makes you, as a consumer, tick.

Instead, Clinton administered what amounted to lethal injection into our economies blood. We took the livin large and in charge, 30k millionaire population and offered them homes on the cheap and with little gatekeepers to stop them from ****ing themselves and worst yet, the rest of us and our economy.

Clinton got the economic boost he wanted, unfortunately we didn't know the actual cost until about 10-12 years later.

So the Bush Admin. had 8 years to undue what Clinton started and did nothing!

Clinton wasn't in office for 16 years.

[rastaman]

This is only the 1st step,medicare & social security were very weak when they were first passed. Through the adding of amendments year after year medicare became better & stronger. We may have only gotten a half loaf today but we'll eventually get the whole loaf as this moves along over the years. To answer your question,no, I don't feel stabbed in the back, Lieberman, lincoln, landreiu,& Nelson are the cancers in the Dem. party that kept us from getting the whole loaf. So if I feel stabbed in the back by anyone it's those four.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Moving toward eventual single-payer universal healthcare will only be achieved INCREMENTALLY.

What is key here are the democratic-progrressive voters over the next 10 years. These voters need to find, recruit, and finance candidates for Congress who believe in single payer healthcare as well kick out office those Senators in office who are beholding to the corporate interest.

[bpc]

So the Bush Admin. had 8 years to undue what Clinton started and did nothing!

Clinton wasn't in office for 16 years.

Pathetic thought. So the economy is doing well, civilians are getting fat off of it and you think that any politicians can just commit career suicide by saying stopping it altogether? You know how many sectors of business would have been against that? Come on, have some common sense.

I'm sure the cancer was growing worse by the day and the Bush administration didn't even know how bad it was. I'm not even protecting them but the economy was solid and nobody was asking questions. 10-13 years of things being mis-managed can snowball quickly. Re-regulation is needed to offset the damage done under Clinton's watch which snowballed under Bush.

The Real Estate crash is going to be just like healthcare... Dem's argued, "OWNING A HOME IS A RIGHT!", now it's "HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT!". Well, this thing will get passed and the budget they have laid down for it is pathetically incorrect, like most government budgets created now a' days. The problem is when you get the American public hooked on free healthcare like crack, there is no going back, no matter HOW much many it's going to be sucking up on the national budget. There will not be motivation to get jobs for healthcare benefits so the rear-end of our society can just sit at home, collect welfare, unemployment checks and when they get a cough, they'll just head down to the hospital and pickup their meds. They'll have a nice, long, unproductive, lazy, sponge like life at all of our expenses... or excuse me, at the expense of those falling on the graduated tax scale and new businesses.... which aren't the people benefiting from this healthcare bill. (but, but, but, what about those 12% unemployment rates? How do you create jobs when businesses are neutered out the gate with extreme taxation) We have even YET to factor in how Obama and his buddies are trying to secure the next wave of illegal immigrants in this country to vote for him. How much is that going to tax this health care budget?

But this is great news for you democrats. This is exactly what you want. Society depending on the government, with free healthcare, paychecks, houses and lollyopps... Taxation will resemble European levels, which you want so badly for this place to be. Unfortunately considering we have best doctors in the world, our taxation for healthcare will probably dwarf theirs. Then when the public is handing 55% or more of our checks to the government, the bottom half of America will be afraid to step away from the hand that feeds and pampers them throughout their life ensuring that democratic rule will stay in place.

Crash the system, redistribute the wealth, create dependency on government, regulate to eliminate freedom of speech and pretty soon, this country will not look anything like it once did.

Awesome. This is what happens when you allow a great thing to get overwhelmed with power hungry, radical people who hate the freedom America represents. I'm scared for my children.

[Bronx33]

Actually I feel stabbed in the back by 4 Democrat Senators who have killed both the Public Option and Single Payer. Those Senators are Bacus-Mont, Landreu(sp) La., Nelson-Neb, and Lieberman-Indep-Conn. These are the 4 Senators who killed the public option, of which over 75% of liberal-progressive and independent voters wanted.

The President doesn't make law nor pass laws, bills, and legislation in the country its the Senate. The Democratic-Liberal, progressive-independent voters should be pissed as hell at the 4 lone Senators the killed th public option. And as a result, a PAC needs to be developed to target and unseat those 4 incumbent Senator that prevented meaningful health-care reform and kick them out of office with candidates who believe in Single-payer.

Obama should feel stabbed in the back by those 4 Corporate Democrats and so should Progressive-Liberal Democratic voters.

As for Obama's compromising with Big Pharama...well duh! Do you realize thanks to the Reagan Tax cuts over the last 28 years how much wealth and power and influence corporations like Big Pharma can now wield? In all reality, these monopolies such as Pharama can actually destroy a sitting Presidents presidency before it even gets started.

I don't believe that the avg. American should be proud nor happy that a corporation or corporations can force a/any sitting President into a compromising position to benefit the Corporations at the expense of "We-The-People"!

So Bronx33, any sitting President would be lucky to get any change done when your Congress or key members in a Congress has been compromised by the Corporations as well as Obama having no other choice but to compromise with BIG PHARMA and Corporate monopolies just to live to fight for another day.

We all witnessed the disaster over the last 8 years what a Presidency can bring on this country when the corporate power and interest is put ahead of our democracy and its people. It looks like the Corporations are kicking ass once again. With their Congressional enablers, their wealth, power, and influence....the American people did not get real health care reform that they wanted.


So at what point does obama take responsibility for his actions? or better yet when can the people blame obama for not following through on campaign promises?

[rastaman]

So at what point does obama take responsibility for his actions? or better yet when can the people blame obama for not following through on campaign promises?

When will the voters who voted for Obama also vote in more progessives and liberals in the Senate and Congress that will listen to the people? Its the voters job during mid-term elections to give their President the Senate votes to get the laws and legislation they want passed.

Looks like the progressive voters have their work cut out for them in 010, 011, 012 and 014. A progressive majority in the senate can even change Obama's mind as well.

[peacepipe]

When will the voters who voted for Obama also vote in more progessives and liberals in the Senate and Congress that will listen to the people? Its the voters job during mid-term elections to give their President the Senate votes to get the laws and legislation they want passed.

Looks like the progressive voters have their work cut out for them in 010, 011, 012 and 014. A progressive majority in the senate can even change Obama's mind as well.

well said.

[cutthemdown]

When will the voters who voted for Obama also vote in more progessives and liberals in the Senate and Congress that will listen to the people? Its the voters job during mid-term elections to give their President the Senate votes to get the laws and legislation they want passed.

Looks like the progressive voters have their work cut out for them in 010, 011, 012 and 014. A progressive majority in the senate can even change Obama's mind as well.

Well sounds good in theory but you have to realize over 50% don't approve of him right now. Also even when a President enjoys widespread popularity it's never really past 60%. There will be 40% on both sides that no matter what won't vote for the opposite party. It's the 20% that they actually fight for.

So no matter what there will be people who never vote repub, or never vote dem.

For that reason Obama probably has as much support right now as he ever will. Chances are eventually he will need repubs to pass a bill.

[Spider]

Oh trust me... I know.

My favorite is how they all became born again fiscal conservatives about 10 months ago. :~ohyah!

LOL. No **** ..........I am just enjoying these pnony

[Spider]

ROFL>........ you ****ing bedwetting republipukes .... you people are a complete ****ing joke , you know that ? You guys piss and moan personal responsibility , yet not one of you is blaming the consumer for over buying ............Clinton and Obamas fault ............ you bastards are truly pathetic

[BroncoBuff]

What? Real Estate Meltdown? Clinton? CDA? The real estate meltdown accounts for much of this countries economic problems and Clinton should be synonymous with it's crash.
Of course Clinton bears some responsibility, principally for signing Gramm-Leach-Bliley. But my point is that the Obama administration has ZERO culpability here. If you can't acknowledge that, you're probably too far gone, beyond saving.

I'll also acknowledge the Clinton administration revved up home ownership, but remember this housing meltown occured in '07 - '08. The ARM mortgages and resultant ballon payments/interest hikes - principle causes of the meltdown - ALL occurred on Bush's watch. Balloon payments are never pushed seven years out, which means the ARMs that caused the meltdown were taken out on Bush's watch. Now I realize you and the rest consistently disclaim responsibility for 9/11 by claiming it was "just" nine months after he took office, but surely seven years is long enough for you people to stand up on your own two feet and be accountable.

And finally, you and the rest of your ilk really really jump the tracks by failing to account for the all-GOP Congress and Bush's irresponsible and catastrophic budget busting. FACT: Clinton left Bush with the largest budget surplus in U.S historyr. A mere five years later, the all-GOP Congress and George Bush had run up the largest budget deficit These are facts. And facts are stubborn things.

[BroncoBuff]

ROFL>........ you ****ing bedwetting republipukes .... you people are a complete ****ing joke , you know that ? You guys piss and moan personal responsibility , yet not one of you is blaming the consumer for over buying ............Clinton and Obamas fault ............ you bastards are truly pathetic

Isn't that pathetic? Blaming Obama for the economic meltown is a bizarre lapse in reasoning. It really does go beyond a mere difference of opinion ... blaming Obama for this crosses over into some kind of intellectual gap.

[SPfloppy]

Un-related to topic...Merry Christmas to all posters even the ones I don't usually agree with. Happy Holidays to LABF, RASTA, Beerslug, Spider, W*gs and Gaff. There isn't enough coal in the world for you all

[Spider]

Isn't that pathetic? Blaming Obama for the economic meltown is a bizarre lapse in reasoning. It really does go beyond a mere difference of opinion ... blaming Obama for this crosses over into some kind of intellectual gap.

Just like my triplets , we could have aborted em , hell doctors said it was the best thing to do , The feds would have paid for it and the counciling etc ..... We made the decision to keep them , we didnt give the federal government or what anyone else thought a sdecond thought , same thing with the house , we didnt buy as big as we could , we didnt get in over our heads , not because the feds encouraged it or discouraged it , we did it based on our own decision of what if I lose my job ? or get killed in a truck wreck ? ..etc .........In fact the federal or state government , Christian groups never figure into my thinking .............**** em , I do things my way

[Spider]

It is just pathetic from the so called republicans here , these bedwetters are so screwed up I doubt they even know what side of the isle they are on much less practice their parties platform , hell half the stupid bedwetters used the utilities bills as a proof global warming isnt happening completely oblivious to raising heating cost every freakin year .....
And they still wonder why I insult them , make a joke of them , never take them serious or engage in serious discussions ...........

[Requiem]

Merry Christmas Spider. Hope you and yours have a great one!

[Spider]

Merry Christmas Spider. Hope you and yours have a great one!

:d same to you and youres Bro ............:wave:

[rastaman]

Well sounds good in theory but you have to realize over 50% don't approve of him right now. Also even when a President enjoys widespread popularity it's never really past 60%. There will be 40% on both sides that no matter what won't vote for the opposite party. It's the 20% that they actually fight for.

So no matter what there will be people who never vote repub, or never vote dem.

For that reason Obama probably has as much support right now as he ever will. Chances are eventually he will need repubs to pass a bill.

What Obama will need to do is use the Reconcilliation Vote of 52 Senators. After all, Republican Presidents from Reagan to Bush Jr have used Reconcillation vote to force their agenda's down the throats of the Dem. Congress and the American people.

How do you think GW Bush was able to get all his tax cuts for the richiest 2% passed! He used Reconcilliation vote of 52 Senate votes. How was Reagan able to change the marginal tax rate from 78% down to 25%.....Reagan did it by Reconcilliation vote.

[rastaman]

Un-related to topic...Merry Christmas to all posters even the ones I don't usually agree with. Happy Holidays to LABF, RASTA, Beerslug, Spider, W*gs and Gaff. There isn't enough coal in the world for you all

Merry XMass and Happy New Year to you and your love ones.:peace: