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View Full Version : Broncos QB Orton's toughness earns respect


BMarsh615
12-18-2009, 01:52 AM
Really good article IMO. Joe Theisman and Richard Seymour had some nice praise of Orton.



http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_14022392?source=rss


For ill-humored kicks, let's say the Broncos' first-round draft pick next April becomes an utter failure.

He turns out to be smaller than Ted Gregory, weaker than Marcus Nash, slower than Willie Middlebrooks, more illogical than Tommy Maddox.

We're talking Tony Mandarich-off-steroids-sized bust.

What would people make then of the trade that sent Kyle Orton and draft picks to the Broncos in exchange for Jay Cutler?

"If they would have made a one-for-one deal, I would take Orton straight up over Cutler, no question," said Joe Theismann, an NFL Network analyst and former quarterback. "Noooo question."

That may be easy to say now, but to Theismann's credit, he was on record making similar comments well before Cutler became a turnover disaster with the Chicago Bears and before Orton reinforced he has not necessarily been a winning quarterback because of a strong defense and strong running game, but because he's a winner, period.

Orton has a 29-16 lifetime won-loss record as a starting quarterback, 19-3 at home entering the Broncos' playoff-pivotal game Sunday afternoon against the AFC West-rival Oakland Raiders at Invesco Field at Mile High.

Orton appears to be on the brink of leading a second team to the playoffs, coupling these 8-5 Broncos with the 2005 Bears, whom he guided to a 10-5 mark as a rookie.

Cutler, meanwhile, is 22-28 lifetime and already guaranteed to miss the playoffs for the fourth season in his four-year career.

But never mind comparing Orton to Cutler. Orton has graduated beyond matching his play against the Bears' quarterback, who has thrown an NFL-high 22 interceptions.

With 16 touchdown passes against eight interceptions, Orton's TD-to- pick ratio ranks 10th among NFL quarterbacks with at least eight starts. His 8-4 record as a starter is tied with Arizona's Kurt Warner for eighth-best and Orton's 62.9 completion percentage is 12th.

"Pretty accurate passer," Broncos running back Correll Buckhalter said. "Didn't know that about him. What I remember about him in Chicago is they threw the ball downfield a lot. But he puts the ball where you want it."

Orton's performance this season might be better appreciated, perhaps, if people take into account how he's played through two serious injuries.

He played the first four games with a glove on his right throwing hand to protect his index finger, after he suffered an open dislocation in the preseason. He then suffered a severe left ankle sprain in Game 9 against Washington that is just now starting to come around.

"The two things Kyle wound up with are so detrimental to a quarterback your finger and your ankle," Theismann said.

Orton has been performing with the upper-half of NFL quarterbacks this season despite having relatively good health for only four games.

"Obviously, the healthier you are (and) the better you feel, the better you are going to play," Orton said. "To start off the season for (four) games and have a broken finger, it's not perfect. It's not how you want it, but that's just how it is."

Orton probably had no business playing with his finger injury in the season opener at Cincinnati, or coming in late in the first half with his ankle injury against San Diego. But his willingness to play when not at his best perhaps translates into his uncanny ability to win.

"To be a leader of a quarterback, somebody your teammates always respect, you have to demonstrate toughness," Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said. "And that means playing through some injuries. I think you have to demonstrate the ability to handle adversity, whether that means an injury or some other type of adversity. I think you have to handle pressure or criticism. Which I don't know if I've met anybody any better at handling 'It didn't go well, but hey, you know what, we go to work, we get it better and we fix it.' "

It was McDaniels who dared to execute the highly criticized trade that sent Cutler and a fifth-round draft pick (Johnny Knox) to Chicago in exchange for Orton, a first-round pick in 2009 (Robert Ayers), a first-round pick in 2010 and a third-round pick that was packaged with another third-round draft choice to select tight end Richard Quinn.

Throw out all the extras, however, and Orton, a slow-footed, average-armed, fourth-round pick in 2005, clearly has outplayed Cutler, an athletic, rocket-armed, first-round pick in 2006.

"People can look at combine numbers and how big and tall or fast a guy is, but what you can't really measure is things that you don't see," Raiders star defensive lineman Richard Seymour said. "The ability to be a leader and have your troops rally around you and the heart that you play with.

"They can measure everything on the outside, but they can't really measure anything on the inside, and that's why you can have sixth- or seventh-round guys become awesome players and that's why you can also have first-round busts. It's really the measure of what's on the inside, and Kyle is a guy who plays that way."

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

Bronco Rob
12-18-2009, 03:48 AM
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/darthvegas66/Orton_plaque.jpg


Orton has a 29-16 lifetime won-loss record as a starting quarterback, 19-3 at home entering the Broncos' playoff-pivotal game Sunday afternoon against the AFC West-rival Oakland Raiders at Invesco Field at Mile High.

Orton appears to be on the brink of leading a second team to the playoffs, coupling these 8-5 Broncos with the 2005 Bears, whom he guided to a 10-5 mark as a rookie.

Cutler, meanwhile, is 22-28 lifetime and already guaranteed to miss the playoffs for the fourth season in his four-year career.Hilarious!

But never mind comparing Orton to Cutler. Orton has graduated beyond matching his play against the Bears' quarterback, who has thrown an NFL-high 22 interceptions.

With 16 touchdown passes against eight interceptions, Orton's TD-to- pick ratio ranks 10th among NFL quarterbacks with at least eight starts. His 8-4 record as a starter is tied with Arizona's Kurt Warner for eighth-best and Orton's 62.9 completion percentage is 12th.




:sunshine:

The Joker
12-18-2009, 07:11 AM
Quick comparison of Cutler last year versus Orton this year.

Orton has just under 7.1 yards per passing attempt this season, Cutler was just over 7.3 last year.

Orton has a 62.9% completion percentage this year, Cutler had 62.3% last season.

Orton has 16 TD's and 8 picks (+8 differential, 2-1 ratio) so far this year, Cutler had 25 TD's and 18 picks last year (+7 differential, slightly worse than a 3-2 ratio).

Cutler will end up with about 1,000 yards more on his season, largely by virtue of passing the ball more. If you gave Orton the same number of attempts and keep him with the same average per attempt, he ends up about 200 yards shy of Jay's season last year.

Make of that what you will.

oubronco
12-18-2009, 07:16 AM
Different team and different scheme so stats won't be correct

TailgateNut
12-18-2009, 07:16 AM
The Anti-jhns thread. Awesome!

Irish Stout
12-18-2009, 07:33 AM
The Anti-jhns thread. Awesome!

he'll be here to tell you how horrible Orton is. Thats despite what Orton has done and continues to do.

2KBack
12-18-2009, 07:46 AM
Richard Seymour huh? Talking up his future teammate?

Broncosfreak_56
12-18-2009, 07:59 AM
Richard Seymour huh? Talking up his future teammate?

We can only hope.

jhns
12-18-2009, 08:03 AM
he'll be here to tell you how horrible Orton is. Thats despite what Orton has done and continues to do.

I actually was leaving this thread alone but with this calling for my posts, I'm not sure I can for long.

I get it, you guys think a complete team is one with an offense horrible on third downs, horrible in the red zone, and horrible at scoring. I get that it isn't the defense and special teams doing something and that Orton is rallying the troops to play like a bottom half of the league offense. When I think consistently good team, I think less than average offense, great defense, and good special teams. Trying to be great in all three areas is just dumb and worthless.

You guys are very disrespectful to this defense. It has won us a lot of games. Saying Orton leads this team and wins games is a joke. The defense leads and rallies this team. The offense puts pressure on that defense and they still have come through a ton. Why hate on them and act like the difference is Orton?

Now I bet everyone is glad you all wanted to call me out here.

Irish Stout
12-18-2009, 08:18 AM
I actually was leaving this thread alone but with this calling for my posts, I'm not sure I can for long.

I get it, you guys think a complete team is one with an offense horrible on third downs, horrible in the red zone, and horrible at scoring. I get that it isn't the defense and special teams doing something and that Orton is rallying the troops to play like a bottom half of the league offense. When I think consistently good team, I think less than average offense, great defense, and good special teams. Trying to be great in all three areas is just dumb and worthless.

You guys are very disrespectful to this defense. It has won us a lot of games. Saying Orton leads this team and wins games is a joke. The defense leads and rallies this team. The offense puts pressure on that defense and they still have come through a ton. Why hate on them and act like the difference is Orton?

Now I bet everyone is glad you all wanted to call me out here.

This defense is amazing, I do not disagree with you. I think our biggest problem right now is on O and specifically O-line. They produce better, Orton produces better. However, I think that Orton has won this team games after the Defense has on occassion come up short. Thats the difference between you and I.

Also, after suffering through Griese, Brister, Plummer, and yes, even Cutler, I have finally come to the relization that you're not always going to have the chance for a great QB and all you can hope for is a good QB. I think Orton is good primarily because he makes good decisions and is a baller. I would like to see the deep ball a little more, but as of right now, I can't think of too many other QBs I'd rather have.

jhns
12-18-2009, 08:28 AM
This defense is amazing, I do not disagree with you. I think our biggest problem right now is on O and specifically O-line. They produce better, Orton produces better. However, I think that Orton has won this team games after the Defense has on occassion come up short. Thats the difference between you and I.

Also, after suffering through Griese, Brister, Plummer, and yes, even Cutler, I have finally come to the relization that you're not always going to have the chance for a great QB and all you can hope for is a good QB. I think Orton is good primarily because he makes good decisions and is a baller. I would like to see the deep ball a little more, but as of right now, I can't think of too many other QBs I'd rather have.

I get what you are saying and I respect this opinion. With all of the crap talk about my opinion, I will still have to laugh at these opinions if McDaniels shows that he doesn't think Orton is the solution after this season. I don't think Orton is bad really, just not good. He hasn't lost us any games but I don't feel he is winning them either. I also agree the o-line needs work. I don't agree that you should stop trying to find a great QB just because it is hard. My hope is that the new staff will just be better at finding real good QBs than the last one. I haven't seen them try yet and I would like to at some point.

Also, no matter how much people spin it, I have never said Orton needs benched. He just has to improve or I would like to see real competition brought in to push/replace him. They don't even need to bring in someone if they are just planning to groom Branstater. I don't really know if he can actually push Orton though as I haven't seen much of him.

Edit: I would also like to add that Orton has done pretty good with the deep ball if you just look at stats. The problem is the mid range throws, and the middle of the field. You can see this by the gameplan the last few weeks or by looking at his stats.

broncocalijohn
12-18-2009, 09:25 AM
There should be an asterisk by his 8-4 record. He was winning one of those losses and could possibly be 9-3. Of course our other anti type guy, Rasta had him losing both the Redskins game AND the Chargers game.

Popps
12-18-2009, 09:49 AM
He hasn't lost us any games but I don't feel he is winning them either..

Actually, one could make a case that Orton was pretty instrumental in our loss to Pittsburgh. He had his worst game of the season.

However, you could also make the case that he was highly instrumental in the wins against New England, Dallas and the first San Diego game.

The reason people can't seem to give Orton credit is that the way he wins games isn't flashy. The things he does to help secure victories (and gain them) aren't EPSN highlight material, for the most part. But, he makes crucial throws at crucial times and is extremely effective at keeping our offense moving.

He takes care of the ball, he makes clutch throws at clutch times and he holds the respect of his teammates as a winner.


So, this stuff about him "not being good" is nonsense.

Is he GREAT? I don't know. But he's good enough for us to make a run at things if we continue to build around him. Doesn't mean we can't think about a QBOTF, but it does mean when you've got a QB with winning intangibles like Orton, you don't just dump him.

It's a shame that some people hate this guy so much. He's a likable guy, a tough leader and a quality QB. He's just not flashy and doesn't always look pretty getting the job done.

I don't know if he's the long-term answer, but I like the guy. He's a quality QB. People like Thiesman aren't singing his praises because he's average. He's a good NFL QB.

atomicbloke
12-18-2009, 09:56 AM
There should be an asterisk by his 8-4 record. He was winning one of those losses and could possibly be 9-3. Of course our other anti type guy, Rasta had him losing both the Redskins game AND the Chargers game.

Well then there was the Bengals game.

So it evens out.

Mr.Meanie
12-18-2009, 10:16 AM
wow that was pretty cool of Richard Seymore

Popps
12-18-2009, 10:20 AM
wow that was pretty cool of Richard Seymore

He wants to be a Bronco next year, of course he's going to say nice things.

:sunshine:

Williams
12-18-2009, 10:26 AM
"If they would have made a one-for-one deal, I would take Orton straight up over Cutler, no question," said Joe Theismann, an NFL Network analyst and former quarterback. "Noooo question."

:thumbs:

Mr.Meanie
12-18-2009, 10:36 AM
He wants to be a Bronco next year, of course he's going to say nice things.

:sunshine:

As great as that sounds, it's pretty much guaranteed he'll be franchised this offseason. Maybe 2011 though!

Popps
12-18-2009, 10:39 AM
As great as that sounds, it's pretty much guaranteed he'll be franchised this offseason. Maybe 2011 though!

That blows.

He's unrestricted, but the though is the Raiders will tag him?

Poor guy. Wonder what he did to deserve being cast into that hell.

Mr.Meanie
12-18-2009, 10:44 AM
That blows.

He's unrestricted, but the though is the Raiders will tag him?

Poor guy. Wonder what he did to deserve being cast into that hell.

They obviously want to sign him to a big deal, but considering they spent their '11 1st on him, they are going to get their production out of him at least for this year and next even if he refuses a deal.

It's an odd move though, and one usually made by a team that thinks they are 1 DL piece away from contending. Maybe they were hoping he would go to Oakland and just fall in love with it. Ha!

Popps
12-18-2009, 10:48 AM
:thumbs:

I'm the first to admit that I thought Orton was sort of just a throw-in part of the trade. I thought he was a decent, but had no idea what we were getting.

Once again, props to the coach for seeing beyond the surface and making a great move.

Popps
12-18-2009, 10:54 AM
They obviously want to sign him to a big deal, but considering they spent their '11 1st on him, they are going to get their production out of him at least for this year and next even if he refuses a deal.

It's an odd move though, and one usually made by a team that thinks they are 1 DL piece away from contending. Maybe they were hoping he would go to Oakland and just fall in love with it. Ha!

:spit:

Hey, there are nice areas of Oakland... but the people in those areas are all 49ers fans. :) (They've got jobs, etc.)

I actually thought it was an O.K. move for Oakland until I realized he was a free agent at season's end. I'm sure you're right that they'll tag him. It's not like they have anyone else to tag!

jhns
12-18-2009, 11:01 AM
The reason people can't seem to give Orton credit is that the way he wins games isn't flashy. The things he does to help secure victories (and gain them) aren't EPSN highlight material, for the most part. But, he makes crucial throws at crucial times and is extremely effective at keeping our offense moving.

I am not going to deny that this may be all it is. That is the reason I try to make it a point to say I would like to know what McDaniels is thinking right now. We will see exactly what he thinks this offseason depending on how they deal with Ortons contract. If he gets a big one, they think he is the long term answer. As of now, the only thing that we can really say is McDaniels found him to be our best option with the limited time we had to figure it out(I doubt they expected the Cutler drama).

There is no denying the offense has been the weakest of the 3 phases. The defense and special teams have been great this year(obviously with a few bad games each). I may be wrong about what the problems are but they are there. We have problems on 3rd down and in the red zone. These are pretty key spots.

Mr.Meanie
12-18-2009, 11:21 AM
I am not going to deny that this may be all it is. That is the reason I try to make it a point to say I would like to know what McDaniels is thinking right now. We will see exactly what he thinks this offseason depending on how they deal with Ortons contract. If he gets a big one, they think he is the long term answer. As of now, the only thing that we can really say is McDaniels found him to be our best option with the limited time we had to figure it out(I doubt they expected the Cutler drama).

There is no denying the offense has been the weakest of the 3 phases. The defense and special teams have been great this year(obviously with a few bad games each). I may be wrong about what the problems are but they are there. We have problems on 3rd down and in the red zone. These are pretty key spots.

I would agree with this post 100%

broncocalijohn
12-18-2009, 11:49 AM
Well then there was the Bengals game.

So it evens out.

no it doesnt. You would have to go after every QBs performances to see if there was a lucky play in it. Does Cutler have an * in the Hochuli game. It is easy to say wins and losses but when a Qb goes out of the game with a 10point lead, it doesnt matter if the other team scores right away as you still have the lead. In that instance, Simms should take the loss (vs Washington). The Bengals game was just a bad offensive game, no question there.

Popps
12-18-2009, 12:04 PM
I
There is no denying the offense has been the weakest of the 3 phases. .

There's also no denying that our team was an unmitigated disaster without Orton in the lineup.

We've definitely got work to do on offense. I'm just not sure how much of it is Orton's fault. He's certainly not going to be gunning deep balls like Manning, but I do think he can make all of the throws.

The problem with him is that he's not mobile... at all. Some QBs are a threat to run... Kyle isn't even a threat to walk.

So, if you don't protect him, he's going to have major troubles.

Basically, he's a poor man's Kurt Warner.

But, protect him and he makes smart throws, and actually shows a nice arm when he needs to. I'm also a person who truly believes you can't just say.. "well, protect any QB and they can win." There's more to it than that.

I'm not positive he's a championship caliber QB just yet, but I'm VERY positive that we don't have enough evidence to conclude that he's not.

Keep in mind, most of the people drawing these conclusions that he's not a championship QB are people like BPC, who were the EXACT same people guaranteeing us that we were screwed because we lost Cutler, and that Cutler was going to take the Bears to the promise-land.

So, forgive us fans if we wait for a little more season to play out.

As I said before the season started, you can't make definitive judgments without all of the information. Kyle hasn't played a complete season in our system yet, so none of us know what we're really capable of with him as our QB.

Personally, I think he's got something to him... and I'm looking forward to us attempting to win a championship with him as our QB.

I'm fairly sure McDaniels and most of the players feel that way, as well.

cutthemdown
12-18-2009, 12:06 PM
Orton having a good yr and it is impressive considering he started with a badly dislocated finger.

I'm thinking next yr Orton could go for 3800 plus yrds and 25 tds if he's healthy. Broncos just need a little help on the oline, Moreno to get a little more experience, and hopefully keep Marshall.

cutthemdown
12-18-2009, 12:10 PM
I agree with Popps. Orton may not be the guy who gets us another ring, but no reason to not keep him and see. He may be perfect while we build team and add talent. Who knows maybe in 2-3 more yrs we have some better option at QB. I do think Broncos will continue to jettison qbs, like simms, and add youth to groom.

Orton good enough to win, but he will need a big team effort to do it.