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View Full Version : The first bad decision of the Broncos vs. Colts


FantomForce
12-17-2009, 05:32 PM
Was the coin toss, I understand we want the ball in the 2nd, but damn why would we DEFER? If we win the coin toss take the ******* ball! Don't let Manning get a win if we can help it especially if we can help it, he sure seemed to take the ball and cram it down our throat. From that moment on I was uneasy

Garcia Bronco
12-17-2009, 05:37 PM
It didn't bother me.

rbackfactory80
12-17-2009, 05:44 PM
Great decision for me, I would do it again. Chances are the first drive the rhythm will not be there.

NYBronco
12-17-2009, 05:46 PM
It was no big deal to me.

The Mile High Report has already discussed this issue and its explained very well.

Atwater His Ass
12-17-2009, 05:46 PM
doesn't really matter.

i like how the commentators tried to spin it as an "extra" possession for indy. like they wouldn't have gotten the ball in the 2nd half had we not deferred.

loborugger
12-17-2009, 05:48 PM
It wasnt the deferring that was bad, it was the defense playing like a JV squad for the first 4 series. Come out and play like they did in the 3rd and most of the 4th quarter, its game on.

Broncofan_H
12-17-2009, 05:49 PM
I would defer quite a bit with the defense we have and also have the ability to make halftime adjustments and get the ball first..

Garcia Bronco
12-17-2009, 05:51 PM
I would defer quite a bit with the defense we have and also have the ability to make halftime adjustments and get the ball first..

Exactly. Put our best unit on the field first sometimes.

strafen
12-17-2009, 06:04 PM
Great decision for me, I would do it again. Chances are the first drive the rhythm will not be there.The difference is, you don't give Peyton Manning unecessary opportunities to pick you apart.
The idea going into the game was to keep Manning off-the-field as much as possible, not to allow him to set the tempo for us to follow.

I know the love for McDaniels, and I'm a fan of his, but he tried to be cute by deferring the ball, and got bit him in the ass...
That's all there is to it.

cabronco
12-17-2009, 06:09 PM
Ya there wasnt an element advantage of passing or kicking with the wind in the 4th qrtr. I like the idea of getting your best unit on the field first, though the laid back like Tiger horrors, and waited to get it going later in the game. Its kind of nice getting the ball 1st possesion of 2nd half. We have an idea by that time of whats working & whats not, on both sides of the ball. Someone just forgot to get McD's attention to quit calling run plays up the middle , that were getting 0 yards to -4.

Atwater His Ass
12-17-2009, 06:09 PM
I know the love for McDaniels, and I'm a fan of his, but he tried to be cute by deferring the ball, and got bit him in the ass...
That's all there is to it.

How's that?

You gotta put Manning on the field first in one of the halfs.

Or are you privy to some sort of alternate universe where you know that after our offense went 3 and out on the opening drive of the game, Manning wouldn't have just as effectively dismantled our defense?

Bronco Yoda
12-17-2009, 06:10 PM
I didn't like the call. Not against a top notch Offense. With our D it's a good bet 75% of the time. But not against one of the elite O's.

I agree it was the first of many bad moves.

First time in Mannings career that he's thrown 3 picks and still won the damn game!

strafen
12-17-2009, 06:17 PM
How's that?

You gotta put Manning on the field first in one of the halfs.

Or are you privy to some sort of alternate universe where you know that after our offense went 3 and out on the opening drive of the game, Manning wouldn't have just as effectively dismantled our defense?You want the ball first dude.
That's why there's a coin toss, because there's a certain advantage to be ahead of the game when you do so.
It allows you to see what the defense is doing and be ready for the next series.
If you score, then that can change things with the opposing team, and you start to set the tempo and affect the psyque of the other team.
Don't tell me after the first 2-3 posessions by Indy that you didn't go..."oh boy, here we go again!"
When Manning marched down the field and scored, that put us in a disadvantage. By the time we were able to make adjustments, it was too late.

KipCorrington25
12-17-2009, 06:21 PM
You always defer if you win the coin toss regardless, he made the right call.

The game is never won or lost on the coin toss, the first ten minutes when the D didn't show up that's when it was lost.

misturanderson
12-17-2009, 06:36 PM
And what happens if we go 3-and-out and they march down the field and score? Then not only is the momentum even more firmly on their side, but they have the advantage of getting the ball back to start the 2nd half. It's nonsense to complain about defering the kickoff or taking the kickoff.

The only time the coin toss really matters is when the weather is crappy or in overtime.

Atwater His Ass
12-17-2009, 06:41 PM
You want the ball first dude.
That's why there's a coin toss, because there's a certain advantage to be ahead of the game when you do so.
It allows you to see what the defense is doing and be ready for the next series.
If you score, then that can change things with the opposing team, and you start to set the tempo and affect the psyque of the other team.
Don't tell me after the first 2-3 posessions by Indy that you didn't go..."oh boy, here we go again!"
When Manning marched down the field and scored, that put us in a disadvantage. By the time we were able to make adjustments, it was too late.

lol. posts like this make my day. nothing but conjecture and hindsight, all mixed into one.

strafen
12-17-2009, 06:51 PM
lol. posts like this make my day. nothing but conjecture and hindsight, all mixed into one.In hindsight, huh?
You really believe we had a chance to stop Manning?
Nobody has been able to do that this year.
That wasn't another Orton we were facing.
Look, I'm not bashing McDaniels, relax. It is what it is...

SportinOne
12-17-2009, 06:55 PM
I know the love for McDaniels, and I'm a fan of his, but he tried to be cute by deferring the ball, and got bit him in the ass...
That's all there is to it.

No, that's not. I'm of the opinion that, if you are at all confident in your defense, you always kick when given the opportunity. Like someone already said, the first drive can be a little out of sync. If your defense can force a 3 and out you are likely getting some great field position. And, you have that posession to start the 2nd half in your back pocket. You put in your work early, make some stops, build a lead, and play the clock game to try and get two scores sandwiched around halftime.

Soul-Bronco
12-17-2009, 06:55 PM
In hindsight, huh?
You really believe we had a chance to stop Manning?
Nobody has been able to do that this year.
That wasn't another Orton we were facing.
Look, I'm not bashing McDaniels, relax. It is what it is...

lol, we stopped him plenty of times and had three picks, we do that to manning in his first posession and the game changes significantly.

prunch
12-17-2009, 06:59 PM
apparently team that gets ball first in 2nd half wins more often statisically ... not by much but they do

sixtimeseight
12-17-2009, 07:03 PM
Garbage thread. Tons of coaches defer on the opening kickoff. This isn't Madden 2010, try to keep up.

strafen
12-17-2009, 07:07 PM
lol, we stopped him plenty of times and had three picks, we do that to manning in his first posession and the game changes significantly.I'm aware of that captain obvious.
We didn't stop him when it mattered, before he had a chance to score on us.

OBF1
12-17-2009, 07:11 PM
Here is a different take.....

The game was last week, get the efff over it already

FantomForce
12-17-2009, 07:17 PM
The difference is, you don't give Peyton Manning unecessary opportunities to pick you apart.
The idea going into the game was to keep Manning off-the-field as much as possible, not to allow him to set the tempo for us to follow.

I know the love for McDaniels, and I'm a fan of his, but he tried to be cute by deferring the ball, and got bit him in the ass...
That's all there is to it.

thanks dragster. to all the others I realize that there is a lot more game to be played after the coin flip but it was the first of many bad decisions on that day

FantomForce
12-17-2009, 07:18 PM
Garbage thread. Tons of coaches defer on the opening kickoff. This isn't Madden 2010, try to keep up.

understood that tons of coaches defer on the opening kickoff, the point is to realize who your playing against and try to keep Peyton on the sideline as much as you can

TonyR
12-17-2009, 07:25 PM
understood that tons of coaches defer on the opening kickoff, the point is to realize who your playing against and try to keep Peyton on the sideline as much as you can

I certainly understand your point but I also understand the counterpoint. If our D came out and stopped them on the first drive and set a tone, and our O followed with some production, we might be saying what a good move it was. I don't think it's really much different than if we elected to receive, our O went 3 and out, and then their O put up 7 on the first drive. I really don't think it's that big of a deal. The big deal was our D giving up TD's on their first 2, and 3 of their first 4, drives.

Soul-Bronco
12-17-2009, 07:26 PM
understood that tons of coaches defer on the opening kickoff, the point is to realize who your playing against and try to keep Peyton on the sideline as much as you can

so if you recieve you keep manning off the field more?? Do people not understand he would of got it in the 2nd half?? if we recieve and go three and out we are in the same boat.

Its always better to kick ALways, just like you ALWAYS double down on 11 in black jack

your money baby

Ray Finkle
12-17-2009, 07:36 PM
it is questions like this that prove how little people understand about football.....

HEAV
12-17-2009, 08:00 PM
Here is a different take.....

The game was last week, get the efff over it already

No ****!

I had to check the date and make sure it was Thursday Dec 17 and not Monday Dec 14...

Some people need a life..

MplsBronco
12-17-2009, 08:17 PM
Somebody really started a thread on this? And on Thursday? And Dragster is in agreement? Oh my.

Taco John
12-17-2009, 08:29 PM
Well since it was brought up...

It was probably a bad decision to defer on the road when you're playing an undefeated Colts team. The decision ended up being a detriment.

strafen
12-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Well since it was brought up...

It was probably a bad decision to defer on the road when you're playing an undefeated Colts team. The decision ended up being a detriment.Bingo! :thumbsup:

strafen
12-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Somebody really started a thread on this? And on Thursday? And Dragster is in agreement? Oh my.

Imagine that, bud! :strong:

azbroncfan
12-17-2009, 08:52 PM
No it wasn't. Denver had a chance to cut it to 21-14 or 21-10 right before half and would of got the ball with a chance to score coming out of halftime.

Crushisback
12-17-2009, 08:58 PM
Yep. That's where the game's decided. I don't even know why they do the rest of that stuff, like playing football.

sixtimeseight
12-17-2009, 10:04 PM
understood that tons of coaches defer on the opening kickoff, the point is to realize who your playing against and try to keep Peyton on the sideline as much as you can

are you retarded? answer the question honestly.

yavoon
12-17-2009, 10:42 PM
understood that tons of coaches defer on the opening kickoff, the point is to realize who your playing against and try to keep Peyton on the sideline as much as you can

how does picking which half to take the ball first influence keeping peyton on the sideline....at all?

BigPlayShay
12-17-2009, 11:19 PM
Belichick deferred against us and it came back to bite him in the ass. Everyone knows you don't give Kyle Orton an extra possession :)

Atwater His Ass
12-18-2009, 12:30 AM
how does picking which half to take the ball first influence keeping peyton on the sideline....at all?

it gave indy an extra possession. just ask dan dierdorf.

yavoon
12-18-2009, 12:36 AM
it gave indy an extra possession. just ask dan dierdorf.

lol he makes my eyes bleed.

16slayer24
12-18-2009, 01:50 AM
ida never deferred
took it eugh tioi then'

16slayer24
12-18-2009, 01:51 AM
reallyu
dan?

Irish Stout
12-18-2009, 07:15 AM
Had Marshall made it out of bounds on the last pass of the 2nd qrtr you'd likely have seen a field goal by us at the end of the half and a Denver O receiving the ball and the momentum to start the second half. Then no one would have this conversation.

I liked it immediately based on how this team (under different management) played Indy previously. Last time we played Indy we lost 34-31, we elected to receive on the kickoff, we scored, we had our momentum and the lead in the first half, but Peyton received it first in the second and change the whole dynamic of the game. Peyton is a player who can totally change the game within the period of one quarter. If he does it in the first, but you can limit him in the second, third and fourth, then you've got a better shot than if you control in the first and let him have the later opportunities.

Either way, shouldn't have mattered that much to the outcome, your team either brings it and converts on third and short or they don't.

Crushaholic
12-18-2009, 09:18 AM
Deferring wasn't the problem. Our defense didn't show up in the first half. THAT was the problem...

Peoples Champ
12-18-2009, 09:26 AM
It didn't bother me.


didnt bother me either, they go 3 and out and we score on the first posesion is just as big as a momentum shift as us going down and scoring first.

Peoples Champ
12-18-2009, 09:29 AM
my biggest problem was the 3 runs (well 1 screen) to Knowshon after he was limping before the 1st half ended in the 2 minute drill

rbackfactory80
12-18-2009, 12:59 PM
You want the ball first dude.
That's why there's a coin toss, because there's a certain advantage to be ahead of the game when you do so.
It allows you to see what the defense is doing and be ready for the next series.
If you score, then that can change things with the opposing team, and you start to set the tempo and affect the psyque of the other team.
Don't tell me after the first 2-3 posessions by Indy that you didn't go..."oh boy, here we go again!"
When Manning marched down the field and scored, that put us in a disadvantage. By the time we were able to make adjustments, it was too late.

No you don't. I would like to see the percentages of teams who score on the first drive in the first half as opposed to the second. I bet its not even close, it seems like every game someone scores on the first drive in the second half.

azbroncfan
12-18-2009, 01:33 PM
We could of took the coin toss and run, run, pass punted and given Manning the ball at 12 minutes instead of 15 minutes and he could of got an extra possension in the second half.

Tombstone RJ
12-18-2009, 01:45 PM
it is questions like this that prove how little people understand about football.....

Wrong Einstein.

Its a very, very ligitimate question. Its about knowing WHEN to defer and WHEN NOT to defer.

It's the idgits here who insist that you "always" defer that "don't know football."

How many times have the Broncos deferred again? Like once, against Manning? What does that tell all the football gods here?

Yah, that's what I thought. :flower:

snowspot66
12-18-2009, 01:49 PM
The difference is, you don't give Peyton Manning unecessary opportunities to pick you apart.
The idea going into the game was to keep Manning off-the-field as much as possible, not to allow him to set the tempo for us to follow.

I know the love for McDaniels, and I'm a fan of his, but he tried to be cute by deferring the ball, and got bit him in the ass...
That's all there is to it.

He didn't get an extra opportunity. He would have gotten the same number of chances.

But you give him the ball at the start of the second half and that's dangerous. Why?

Because we were in a position to score at the end of the half and get the ball right back to start the second half. We didn't do **** with it but if Manning gets that chance it might have been a 14 point shift without us getting our offense on the field for even one snap.

It was a great decision. It just didn't get us points because we couldn't run block for ****.

rbackfactory80
12-18-2009, 02:14 PM
Wrong Einstein.

Its a very, very ligitimate question. Its about knowing WHEN to defer and WHEN NOT to defer.

It's the idgits here who insist that you "always" defer that "don't know football."

How many times have the Broncos deferred again? Like once, against Manning? What does that tell all the football gods here?

Yah, that's what I thought. :flower:

So enlighten us as to why the Broncos chose to defer against possibly the best offense in football on the road.

Tombstone RJ
12-18-2009, 02:33 PM
So enlighten us as to why the Broncos chose to defer against possibly the best offense in football on the road.

That's what I don't understand. Why defer?

If I'm McD and I want to "set the tempo" then I chose to receive the kickoff. I then put my offense out on the field and hopefully get a least 2-3 first downs. I may not score a TD, but I want to establish some things right away. First, I want to establish the run game. Secondly, I want to see what defense the Colts are playing. Thirdly, I want to give my best players and opportunity to make some plays (Marshall, Moreno, the Oline).

If all goes well, I end up with 7 points and put my defense in a great position.

rbackfactory80
12-18-2009, 02:43 PM
That's what I don't understand. Why defer?

If I'm McD and I want to "set the tempo" then I chose to receive the kickoff. I then put my offense out on the field and hopefully get a least 2-3 first downs. I may not score a TD, but I want to establish some things right away. First, I want to establish the run game. Secondly, I want to see what defense the Colts are playing. Thirdly, I want to give my best players and opportunity to make some plays (Marshall, Moreno, the Oline).

If all goes well, I end up with 7 points and put my defense in a great position.

This offense hasn't "set the tempo" in the first half all year. They play well in the second half and our defense usually holds on for a while before they are just worn out both physically, and mentally from not getting support. We are strong in the second half usually and truthfully you make a stand, and possibly get Manning confused in the first drive, that can also "set the tempo". Against the Colts I think McDaniels has learned that Manning is his own worst enemy, and if he had fell into the funk earlier, instead of after three touchdowns the decision looks a lot better.

Tombstone RJ
12-18-2009, 02:52 PM
This offense hasn't "set the tempo" in the first half all year. They play well in the second half and our defense usually holds on for a while before they are just worn out both physically, and mentally from not getting support. We are strong in the second half usually and truthfully you make a stand, and possibly get Manning confused in the first drive, that can also "set the tempo". Against the Colts I think McDaniels has learned that Manning is his own worst enemy, and if he had fell into the funk earlier, instead of after three touchdowns the decision looks a lot better.

That's not really true. Against Washington, the Broncos came out and scored early. However, Orton got hurt and the Broncos defense did not play all that well in the second half.

rbackfactory80
12-18-2009, 03:02 PM
That's not really true. Against Washington, the Broncos came out and scored early. However, Orton got hurt and the Broncos defense did not play all that well in the second half.

I'm just saying the majority of the season. However the D knows it has been our strong suit during the year and they probably where begging to go out first and make a stand. I am sure they wanted first crack and if they get that three and out Orton knows he doesn't have to force it cause they will be in it all game.

Bronco Yoda
12-30-2009, 07:24 AM
Any comments about us accepting the ball in the Eagles game?

loborugger
12-30-2009, 08:35 AM
Any comments about us accepting the ball in the Eagles game?

Valid point. During the Colts game, we decided to put the ball in the hands (so to speak) of our strongest unit to start the game.

Look at what our offense did in the first possessions of both the Colts and Eagles games... 3 and out. I think in both games the first 2 possessions were 3 and out.

I dont really see the difference between giving Manning the ball immediately to start the first quarter or giving him the ball :45 seconds into the first quarter after a 3 and out followed by a punt. Except that Manning than gets the ball first time around in the 2nd half.

Again, I am much more disappointed that our defense allowed 21 points in 20 minutes than the decision to give Melonhead the ball to start the game. And that is primarily because our team starts slow. Whether its Philly, Indy, New England, Dallas, or San Diego (heck, we even started slow against Cleveland), our boys gotta man up from the initial possession of the game and stop digging ourselves into 2 score holes. Get a 3 & out vs Philly or Indy on their first possession and have the 'O' put together a bit of drive - not even a score, necessarily, just a drive - and those games have the potential to end vastly differently.

azbroncfan
12-30-2009, 03:34 PM
Any comments about us accepting the ball in the Eagles game?

No because the coin toss doesn't really matter as there is no way to predict who will have teh ball before halftime. I always like to send the Defense out first and then you have the ball after half with a feel of what the other team wants to do and you get the first drive after halftime adjustments.