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Denver724
12-16-2009, 03:34 PM
Not sure if this was already posted. Is Bowlen ready to open his checkbook? This is big money.

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Time is almost up for Brandon Marshall as an affordable player.

Is Marshall down to his final three regular-season games with the Broncos? If so, the Broncos are draining every ounce of sweat they can from their star wide receiver.

"And I'm giving them every ounce of my sweat," Marshall said Monday, the day after he broke a 9-year-old NFL record by catching 21 passes in a stirring comeback attempt against the Indianapolis Colts.

Whether he returns to threaten all of Rod Smith's franchise receiving records or winds up elsewhere through myriad uncertain options that await the upcoming NFL offseason, Marshall figures to become extremely wealthy, even by professional athlete standards.

Wealthy, as in possibly Broncos the NFL's highest-paid receiver. Larry Fitzgerald holds that distinction with a four-year, $40 million contract extension he received from the Arizona Cardinals in March 2008.

To retain Marshall, the Broncos may have to start with Fitzgerald's deal and tack on a couple of years of inflation.

"We've always felt Brandon was in a class by himself," said Kennard McGuire, Marshall's agent. "Now, it's become evident he's one of the greats. He has the passion to do that. At this time, Brandon is clearly focused on finishing the season with no distractions. At the appropriate time, he and I will sit down and discuss what the future holds."

For all the issues that have followed Marshall almost since the day the Broncos selected him in the fourth round of the 2006 draft, he always has been driven by greatness. Thanks to his preposterous game against the Colts, Marshall is on pace for his third consecutive season of at least 100 catches and 1,200 yards. He has already set a career high with nine touchdown receptions, one off the league lead.

Considering he is finishing up the fourth year of his rookie contract that eventually paid him $3.7 million, an average of $925,000 per season, Marshall may have been
Broncos star Brandon Marshall, who set an NFL record Sunday with 21 receptions against the Colts, likely won't be grimacing when he signs his next contract. (Joe Amon, The Denver Post )
one of the NFL's top performers for the dollar.

The economical nature of his compensation is about to change. Depending on whether team owners and the players union can negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement in the next 2 1/2 months, Marshall can strike it big either through offer sheets that figure to arrive by way of restricted free agency or really big through the open bidding process of unrestricted free agency that will begin in March.

The Broncos could pre-empt such bargaining leverage by opening talks on a long-term contract with Marshall. But the receiver has his doubts.

"I think if they wanted to get something done, it would have been done already," Marshall said. "But our ultimate goal is to win games and we have three of them left. Hopefully we can get that done. Regarding a contract, I think it's best if I just play it out."

Marshall well knows Fitzgerald has been widely proclaimed as the NFL's best receiver this year not because of any stats he compiled during the regular season, but his record-setting performance during the 2008 postseason.

If the playoffs are to include Marshall for the first time in his career, the Broncos (8-5) likely need to win two of their next three games, with the next one to be played Sunday against the Oakland Raiders at Invesco Field at Mile High.

Because Marshall is just one of five key Denver players who are in the final weeks of expiring contracts the others are quarterback Kyle Orton, pass-rushing linebacker Elvis Dumervil, right guard Chris Kuper and tight end Tony Scheffler the team will have a difficult time figuring out how to allocate the millions of dollars needed to bring them all back.

"I'm not going to talk about contracts," Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said. "We know we've got a lot of work to do after the season's over with, and there's a lot of things going on that affect that."

Until then, the Broncos might as well get all they can from the Big Five while they're still affordable. With 21 catches, Marshall just gave the Broncos more in one game than any receiver ever gave his team. Not that, one way or another, the team won't eventually pay for it.

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13997929%22#ixzz0ZtigKbLs

Doggcow
12-16-2009, 03:38 PM
Too bad we didn't sign him 2 weeks ago, could have saved millions. EITHER WAY, PAY THE MAN.

Denver724
12-16-2009, 03:46 PM
I think their demands (he and his agent) are going to be ridiculous, outrageous and something the Broncos will not do. I can just tell by the agents tone. Maybe they are starting out high and will settle for something less, but I doubt it. I can see him being tagged and the Broncos trading him for a 1st and a 3rd (or something like that).

Popps
12-16-2009, 03:57 PM
I think their demands (he and his agent) are going to be ridiculous, outrageous and something the Broncos will not do. I can just tell by the agents tone. .

I'm afraid that's the case. At the risk of getting flamed, I DO think he deserves a top 10 WR payday. He's a top 10 WR. But, I think they want to set the bar.
I just have that feeling.

We'll see. Brandon is at least answering the questions correctly. We'll see how it goes.

A lot can happen between now and the end of the season.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-16-2009, 04:03 PM
Pay him. Pay him. Pay him. Pay him. Pay him.

rastaman
12-16-2009, 04:09 PM
I think their demands (he and his agent) are going to be ridiculous, outrageous and something the Broncos will not do. I can just tell by the agents tone. Maybe they are starting out high and will settle for something less, but I doubt it. I can see him being tagged and the Broncos trading him for a 1st and a 3rd (or something like that).

Then again, teams won't be that eager to sign him and will want see if his off the field issues and behavior are truly in the past before they offer 1st and 3rd for him. And as a result, BMarsh gets the one year RFA pay out and plays another year in Denver.

In 2011 should Brandon have a great year and he is a model citizen off the field, teams will be lining up at the door at the door to include offering up a 1st and 3rd to lock up BMarsh. One extra year will allow Bowlen one more year to come to terms with breaking the bank to pay Marshall or lose him to another team.

Dr. Broncenstein
12-16-2009, 04:11 PM
Brandon has only himself to thank for his position. It's great that he finally seems to have his **** together -- too bad it had to come down to the very last chance. The FO has a great deal of leverage, and they would be crazy not to use it. Assuming an uncapped year, they get to see what the market will bear with the option to match it. If the deal is too rich, we get a first and third. Sounds good to me. The pay the man now crowd needs to wake up and get real. Provided Brandon can stay out of trouble, he'll be a rich man next year. History isn't on his side... and I'm not holding my breath.

OBF1
12-16-2009, 04:20 PM
Pay him. Pay him. Pay him. Pay him. Pay him.

Easy for you to say.... put on your GM and team owner hat and tell us how much and how long. Do not forget to consider free agency needs and who else on the team (insert Elvis here) contracts also need to be addressed.

I for one see either a low ball offer or cutting loose scheffler, he has been deemed usless in McDaniels system.

oubronco
12-16-2009, 04:21 PM
He's about to get PAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDDD

cmhargrove
12-16-2009, 04:24 PM
This is why I couldn't pull the trigger on buying a #15 throwback jersey.

I hope we keep him, but I have my doubts. I hope they at least get some good draft picks if they let him go...

400HZ
12-16-2009, 04:29 PM
Well it has been a whole 3 months since his last episode of dip**** behavior. Pay him!

OBF1
12-16-2009, 04:32 PM
If he goes anywhere, We are getting a #1 at the minimum.

OBF1
12-16-2009, 04:46 PM
Wooohooo, It is beer-thirty in Mockville

worm
12-16-2009, 05:05 PM
Jared Allen's trade to the Vikes is a pretty reasonable comparison to make.

The Vikes gave up a high 1st and two 3s (Albert, Charles and Morgan) to get Allen when he was franchised by the Chiefs. It seemed like a huge haul for the Chiefs at the time...and a big risk for the Vikes in making him the highest paid DE. Not so much anymore.

Players like Allen and Marshall just don't come along every day. A HOF potential player in the hand is worth much, much more than a few low # draft picks.

I think he is worth 10M\year.

Doggcow
12-16-2009, 05:10 PM
If we had paid Marshall sooner, I guarantee he would be wanting out of his contract now anyway. So I don't see the big game as an issue.

BlaK-Argentina
12-16-2009, 05:18 PM
If you had to choose:

DOOM or Bmarsh?

It would suck to lose either.

steeledude
12-16-2009, 05:22 PM
I don't know Doggcow. I think this was a huge mistake by McD and Bowlen to ignore Marshall's request. It's like everyone is floored "oh, Marshall IS a good player." Um...yeah, he's been exceptional for two years, now on his third. In fact he is breaking records and turning games around for an anemic offense.

McD and Bowlen thought Marshall's production wouldn't be so high this year. Orton can't get the ball around like Cutler can. Anything less than a hundred catches would be considered a reduction. They were gambling on paying him less and driving his value down.

Now Marshall has once again proven his value, and on top of that, proven to be a game changer which he might not have always been.

He won't be in Denver for long. He's been treated poorly, they low balled him, suspended him, pushed him to the edge, and once he can sail into the sunset he will. Why would anyone want to work for people who treated him the way they did. Really the front office is establishing a nice little pattern of pushing around the young pro bowl offensive talent.

rastaman
12-16-2009, 05:29 PM
If you had to choose:

DOOM or Bmarsh?

It would suck to lose either.

Why can't we sign both.

tsiguy96
12-16-2009, 05:30 PM
If you had to choose:

DOOM or Bmarsh?

It would suck to lose either.

bmarsh comes out when we need him most and absolutely dominates the top competition. doom is great and a real asset, but does not do this as frequently as bmarsh. a weak pass rush can be disguised by blitz, a real playmaking WR who runs YAC like no one in the NFL cannot be replaced.

rastaman
12-16-2009, 05:39 PM
This is why I couldn't pull the trigger on buying a #15 throwback jersey.

I hope we keep him, but I have my doubts. I hope they at least get some good draft picks if they let him go...

I hate the gamble on unproven draft picks who could be NFL bust. BMarsh is already a proven quanity. Can we find another Brandon Marshall in the 4th round. The only he stays in Denver however is if Bowlen simply says he will make Brandon a top 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 WR in the NFL.

I can see the Ravens or Saints paying a Kings ransom and forking over their draft picks. As for the Ravens......Falcco(sp) sure could use a WR of Marshall's talents. Brandon could just be the missing link to put the Ravens over the top.

tsiguy96
12-16-2009, 05:41 PM
I hate the gamble on unproven draft picks who could be NFL bust. BMarsh is already a proven quanity. Can we find another Brandon Marshall in the 4th round. The only he stays in Denver however is if Bowlen simply says he will make Brandon a top 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 WR in the NFL.

I can see the Ravens or Saints paying a Kings ransom and forking over their draft picks. As for the Ravens......Falcco(sp) sure could use a WR of Marshall's talents. Brandon could just be the missing link to put the Ravens over the top.

the saints have colston, ravens dont trade draft picks often, if ever.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-16-2009, 05:47 PM
Easy for you to say.... put on your GM and team owner hat and tell us how much and how long. Do not forget to consider free agency needs and who else on the team (insert Elvis here) contracts also need to be addressed.

I for one see either a low ball offer or cutting loose scheffler, he has been deemed usless in McDaniels system.

I cut scheff loose. I pay brandon. And i need to get champ to take a paycut...14 mil, too much

tsiguy96
12-16-2009, 05:53 PM
I cut scheff loose. I pay brandon. And i need to get champ to take a paycut...14 mil, too much

dont just cut him, but cant pay him top tier money...

CoopDawg
12-16-2009, 06:04 PM
Give him the Fitzgerald money, 4 years $40 million.

ton80
12-16-2009, 06:18 PM
I don't know Doggcow. I think this was a huge mistake by McD and Bowlen to ignore Marshall's request. It's like everyone is floored "oh, Marshall IS a good player." Um...yeah, he's been exceptional for two years, now on his third. In fact he is breaking records and turning games around for an anemic offense.

McD and Bowlen thought Marshall's production wouldn't be so high this year. Orton can't get the ball around like Cutler can. Anything less than a hundred catches would be considered a reduction. They were gambling on paying him less and driving his value down.

Now Marshall has once again proven his value, and on top of that, proven to be a game changer which he might not have always been.

He won't be in Denver for long. He's been treated poorly, they low balled him, suspended him, pushed him to the edge, and once he can sail into the sunset he will. Why would anyone want to work for people who treated him the way they did. Really the front office is establishing a nice little pattern of pushing around the young pro bowl offensive talent.

Great post. Couldn't agree more.

The Broncos have obviously treated Brandon poorly. They paid him the contract that he signed. They didn't renegotiate his contract when he was behaving like a horse's a$$ in training camp. Brandon has only appeared in court, what, 3 or 4 times since being a Bronco. What's the big deal here. The league has only had to suspend him once. Heck, for that matter, the team has only had to suspend him once too.

I just don't get it. The Broncos organization is obviously bunch of ungrateful cock suckers and a bunch of tight-a$$es with their pocket book.

McDman
12-16-2009, 06:19 PM
I'm all for giving him a HUGE contract, but their has to be some stipulations about suspensions in it.

Premier-Ace55
12-16-2009, 06:47 PM
We should start a petition

tsiguy96
12-16-2009, 06:54 PM
Great post. Couldn't agree more.

The Broncos have obviously treated Brandon poorly. They paid him the contract that he signed. They didn't renegotiate his contract when he was behaving like a horse's a$$ in training camp. Brandon has only appeared in court, what, 3 or 4 times since being a Bronco. What's the big deal here. The league has only had to suspend him once. Heck, for that matter, the team has only had to suspend him once too.

I just don't get it. The Broncos organization is obviously bunch of ungrateful pink pony riders and a bunch of tight-a$$es with their pocket book.

fo sho.

DBroncos4life
12-16-2009, 08:28 PM
Has there ever been a WR coming off three straight 100 catch season's ever to just be let go by their former team? I could be mistaken but players like Marshall are the type of players you DREAM YOU FIND in the draft. Oh well we found a top ten WR let's just hope we get a first and a third for him because lord knows how easy it is to get players like him through the draft.

HAT
12-16-2009, 09:00 PM
I can see the Ravens or Saints paying a Kings ransom and forking over their draft picks. As for the Ravens......Falcco(sp) sure could use a WR of Marshall's talents. Brandon could just be the missing link to put the Ravens over the top.

Hilarious!
The Saints? Wow.

prunch
12-16-2009, 09:10 PM
I think we are getting Dallas's or Washington's first and third next year.

BroncoMan4ever
12-16-2009, 11:50 PM
I think their demands (he and his agent) are going to be ridiculous, outrageous and something the Broncos will not do. I can just tell by the agents tone. Maybe they are starting out high and will settle for something less, but I doubt it. I can see him being tagged and the Broncos trading him for a 1st and a 3rd (or something like that).

look for him to end up with a deal in the range of 5 years and probably 55 million. he is going to pull down on average 11 million a year. he will be the highest paid player at his position in Denver or elsewhere.

BlaK-Argentina
12-17-2009, 06:33 AM
We should start a petition

Someone should start a chant at the stadium or something. We really can't afford to lose him.

oubronco
12-17-2009, 06:35 AM
Has there ever been a WR coming off three straight 100 catch season's ever to just be let go by their former team? I could be mistaken but players like Marshall are the type of players you DREAM YOU FIND in the draft. Oh well we found a top ten WR let's just hope we get a first and a third for him because lord knows how easy it is to get players like him through the draft.

McD is a genius just watch how he spins this

WolfpackGuy
12-17-2009, 06:39 AM
Pay him, but add behavior clauses to the contract.

no-pseudo-fan
12-17-2009, 06:56 AM
We need Brandon Marshall on this team. Pay dat man his money.

The Joker
12-17-2009, 06:56 AM
"We've always felt Brandon was in a class by himself," said Kennard McGuire, Marshall's agent. "Now, it's become evident he's one of the greats."

This scares the hell out of me.

I'm all for paying the guy like he deserves to be, namely like one of the best receivers in the league. He's not on the level of Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald for me, not yet, but he's up there with anyone else and deserves to be paid as such.

The things he lacked in his game going into the season were an ability to consistently come down with the deep ball, and get into the endzone with more regularity (13 TD's in 2007 + 2008 combined wasn't good enough for what he was capable of.)

This year, he's gotten into the endzone 9 times and come down with plenty of deep balls considering how rarely we toss one up there.

So, he deserves a big deal.

But if he and his agent start demanding that he gets the biggest deal a WR has ever gotten, like a guy who was truly "in a class by himself" would be entitled to, can you really go committing that money to him? I know he's kept himself out of trouble for 3 months, but he still has to be considered a risky proposition to go handing such a deal to.

One thing we'll certainly have to do is get either Dumervil or Marshall locked up to a long term deal pretty quickly when the season finishes. The RFA tag is not going to cut it with either of those two, teams will be falling over themselves to give up a 1st and a 3rd for players like that.

Most likely we get Dumervil signed up first then try and sign Brandon, then slap him with the franchise tag if we can't work anything out.

jhns
12-17-2009, 07:00 AM
We can't let Marshall go. He is the only thing keeping this offense going. Without him, we would be fighting for worst offense in the league. Just look at our scoring totals as is, they aren't pretty. Unless they plan on bringing in a real QB and fixing the line, we can't lose Marshall.

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 07:11 AM
I'm all for giving him a HUGE contract, but their has to be some stipulations about suspensions in it.

Pay him, but add behavior clauses to the contract.

Jamie Dukes in in the house!

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 07:13 AM
One thing we'll certainly have to do is get either Dumervil or Marshall locked up to a long term deal pretty quickly when the season finishes. The RFA tag is not going to cut it with either of those two, teams will be falling over themselves to give up a 1st and a 3rd for players like that.

Let them fall all over themselves. The RFA tag is the best of both worlds for the Broncos. Think about it. They can let 100 offers fly in for him and it won't make a bit of difference. They would still have the right to match any offer.

There is NO downside to the RFA tag unless Marshall for some reason is willing to play for us for less than market value. Anyone really think that's a possibility here? I don't.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 07:28 AM
Let them fall all over themselves. The RFA tag is the best of both worlds for the Broncos. Think about it. They can let 100 offers fly in for him and it won't make a bit of difference. They would still have the right to match any offer.

There is NO downside to the RFA tag unless Marshall for some reason is willing to play for us for less than market value. Anyone really think that's a possibility here? I don't.

Did a poison pill rule ever actually pass? That would be me only concern.

RaiderH8r
12-17-2009, 07:35 AM
Pay him, but add behavior clauses to the contract.

That would have been adequate six weeks ago. I fear he's running up his value and packing his bags for greener pastures.

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 07:38 AM
Did a poison pill rule ever actually pass? That would be me only concern.

That's a legit worry. I could be wrong, but I don't think they were ever able to get the votes needed to close that loop-hole. I think it's still in the "gentlemen's agreement" stage.

rastaman
12-17-2009, 07:41 AM
Pay him, but add behavior clauses to the contract.

Will the players union allow it?

rastaman
12-17-2009, 07:46 AM
Let them fall all over themselves. The RFA tag is the best of both worlds for the Broncos. Think about it. They can let 100 offers fly in for him and it won't make a bit of difference. They would still have the right to match any offer.

There is NO downside to the RFA tag unless Marshall for some reason is willing to play for us for less than market value. Anyone really think that's a possibility here? I don't.

I could see him playing for less than the market value if Bowlen made a special deal to allow BMarsh to buy a few shares-ownerhsip into the Broncos to compensate for getting under paid now.

There are no free lunches out there. Both owner and Player have their risk factors to consider.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 07:47 AM
Will the players union allow it?

Screw the players union, he and his agent are going to laugh any stipulations out of the building. IF we are able to extend his contract, I don't foresee it as being a smooth process.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 07:48 AM
i could see him playing for less than the market value if bowlen made a special deal to allow bmarsh to buy a few shares-ownerhsip into the broncos to compensate for getting under paid now.


what? when in the world has this ever been done before?

rastaman
12-17-2009, 07:50 AM
We can't let Marshall go. He is the only thing keeping this offense going. Without him, we would be fighting for worst offense in the league. Just look at our scoring totals as is, they aren't pretty. Unless they plan on bringing in a real QB and fixing the line, we can't lose Marshall.

Also factor in this season that Bmarsh is responsible for 3 or 4 of the Broncos 8 victories this year. This season would have been a total downer/disaster us had it not been for BMarsh.

rastaman
12-17-2009, 07:58 AM
what? when in the world has this ever been done before?

I'm just saying. More than likely btwn the NFL owners by laws it may not even be legal. However, why else would a player play or stay with a team for less than his market value unless the team can find a way to compensate the player down the road....as in once the player retires or leaves the game due to injury. Point is it can't just be a win-win for Bowlen and Broncos only. In a business deal both parties have to believe they are getting the best deal.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 08:02 AM
I'm just saying. More than likely btwn the NFL owners by laws it may not even be legal. However, why else would a player play or stay with a team for less than his market value unless the team can find a way to compensate the player down the road....as in once the player retires or leaves the game due to injury. Point is it can't just be a win-win for Bowlen and Broncos only. In a business deal both parties have to believe they are getting the best deal.

Right, which is excatly why it's called market value and why no one should expect to get him for less. Giving players stock in the team is not only almost certainly illegal, but also a terrible precident and just a stupid move. It's like Al Davis stupid.

The Joker
12-17-2009, 08:14 AM
Right, which is excatly why it's called market value and why no one should expect to get him for less. Giving players stock in the team is not only almost certainly illegal, but also a terrible precident and just a stupid move. It's like Al Davis stupid.

You've never read rastaman's posts before I take it? :clown:

The Joker
12-17-2009, 08:23 AM
Let them fall all over themselves. The RFA tag is the best of both worlds for the Broncos. Think about it. They can let 100 offers fly in for him and it won't make a bit of difference. They would still have the right to match any offer.

There is NO downside to the RFA tag unless Marshall for some reason is willing to play for us for less than market value. Anyone really think that's a possibility here? I don't.

What happens then when Oakland or Washington offers him a ridiculous contract?

Can you really go and hand Marshall a 6 year, 80 million dollar type of contract? Cos that's precisely the kind of numbers that guys like Snyder and Davis will be throwing at Marshall if we let him sniff the open market.

It's either match that, or let him walk.

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 08:36 AM
What happens then when Oakland or Washington offers him a ridiculous contract?

Can you really go and hand Marshall a 6 year, 80 million dollar type of contract? Cos that's precisely the kind of numbers that guys like Snyder and Davis will be throwing at Marshall if we let him sniff the open market.


How can the Broncos prevent this from happening if Marshall won't accept a hometown discount? That's all I'm saying. If he's set on testing the market, there's literally nothing the Broncos can do about it. He's only "restricted" in the sense that some team would have to be willing to break the bank AND give up the first and the third for him.

The Joker
12-17-2009, 08:56 AM
How can the Broncos prevent this from happening if Marshall won't accept a hometown discount? That's all I'm saying. If he's set on testing the market, there's literally nothing the Broncos can do about it. He's only "restricted" in the sense that some team would have to be willing to break the bank AND give up the first and the third for him.

I think teams will be willing to do that though.

3rd round picks aren't that valuable or hard to come by, essentially you're giving up a 1st round pick for a proven upper tier NFL receiver.

Hit him with the franchise tag and it becomes two 1sts, which I think teams would really think twice about.

I'd really rather pay him the extra 5 or 6 million next year to keep him in Denver with the franchise tag, then try to work something out long term.

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 09:03 AM
I think teams will be willing to do that though.

3rd round picks aren't that valuable or hard to come by, essentially you're giving up a 1st round pick for a proven upper tier NFL receiver.

Hit him with the franchise tag and it becomes two 1sts, which I think teams would really think twice about.

I'd really rather pay him the extra 5 or 6 million next year to keep him in Denver with the franchise tag, then try to work something out long term.

I see. A good argument could be made for doing that and I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it if negotiations weren't going well.

cutthemdown
12-17-2009, 09:42 AM
Tag him and make him play another 1 yr deal.

cutthemdown
12-17-2009, 09:44 AM
Sign Doom, Orton, Kuper. Let Scheffler walk if he gets a better offer. Tag Marshall and try to sign him the next yr.

Marshall has franchise tag written all over him if a new cba gets done. If not they may use it on Doom and let Marshall look for offers under the highest tender.

rastaman
12-17-2009, 10:11 AM
Screw the players union, he and his agent are going to laugh any stipulations out of the building. IF we are able to extend his contract, I don't foresee it as being a smooth process.

The NFL is a Business. The players union is there to protect the best interest of the players. The NFL is a collection Corporate Business owners who are looking out for their bottom lines. Let the negotiations Begin.

rastaman
12-17-2009, 10:18 AM
You've never read rastaman's posts before I take it? :clown:

McSchim....I only brought that argument up to ascertain why would any player in their prime except a low market-owner friendly contract w/o any type of compensation down the road for taking one for the team. Its not like after Bowlen will have any use for BMarsh once he gets old or he suffers a career ending injury. Players would be foolish to except a below market contract just to help out an owner that would eventually kick you to the curb once the owner deems it necessary.

gyldenlove
12-17-2009, 10:41 AM
We have to negotiate a deal with either Dumervil or Marshall since we can't franchise both and I think there are teams out there who would pay the 1st and 3rd RFA tag.

My feeling is that we are better off negotiating with Marshall early, I think he will be willing to take a bit of a hometown discount if we can get him before he hits the open market, especially given his success this year. That means we can tag Dumervil and have a little more time to make a deal with him.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 10:49 AM
The NFL is a Business. The players union is there to protect the best interest of the players. The NFL is a collection Corporate Business owners who are looking out for their bottom lines. Let the negotiations Begin.

Thanks for the lecture. I meant it's moot whether the Union will allow it; BMarsh and his agent won't.

peacepipe
12-17-2009, 11:03 AM
We better hope the CBA doesn't get worked out because if it does Marshall & dumervil will both be unrestricted free agents & only one can be tagged if at all.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 11:05 AM
We better hope the CBA doesn't get worked out because if it does Marshall & dumervil will both be unrestricted free agents & only one can be tagged if at all.

I don't think that's true. Since both are coming off rookie contracts I believe that they will both be restricted free agents this year either way.

peacepipe
12-17-2009, 11:10 AM
I don't think that's true. Since both are coming off rookie contracts I believe that they will both be restricted free agents this year either way.Doesn't matter per the CBA a player with 4 yrs or more in the NFL becomes a unrestricted free agent. They are restricted if they only have 3 yrs in the NFL.

NFLBRONCO
12-17-2009, 11:24 AM
I think we should pay both players but, I could easily see both being gone as well. I think demand for Elvis (Sacks) garner high dollar not sure Pat will pay or not. I didn't assume any big name player will be with us until a longterm deal is announced.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 11:36 AM
Doesn't matter per the CBA a player with 4 yrs or more in the NFL becomes a unrestricted free agent. They are restricted if they only have 3 yrs in the NFL.

I stand corrected. :thumbsup:

24champ
12-17-2009, 12:10 PM
I think we should pay both players but, I could easily see both being gone as well. I think demand for Elvis (Sacks) garner high dollar not sure Pat will pay or not. I didn't assume any big name player will be with us until a longterm deal is announced.

Not sure if either are coming back as well. With an uncapped season looming, players are definitely going to take advantage of it. Plus Orton is looking to get paid. That's a lot of jack for three players.

I'm having a hard time seeing the Broncos paying all this money for three players.

peacepipe
12-17-2009, 01:01 PM
Not sure if either are coming back as well. With an uncapped season looming, players are definitely going to take advantage of it. Plus Orton is looking to get paid. That's a lot of jack for three players.

I'm having a hard time seeing the Broncos paying all this money for three players.

I don't see that happening, he's not the long term answer. I don't see the broncos putting themselves behind the 8 ball knowing that he isn't going to be their long term. They may sign him to a 1 yr deal but nothing more.

jhns
12-17-2009, 01:06 PM
I don't see that happening, he's not the long term answer. .

I would watch saying this kind of thing around here. A lot of these people seem to think Orton is Elway II. This crap about him not being the long term answer is blasphemy around here.

Pony Boy
12-17-2009, 01:12 PM
If McDaniel's follows in his mentor’s footsteps he will not pay a prima donna price tag to sign one player. I don't think he will trade for high draft picks either but will opt for trading for a proven player or players and late round picks that can be signed.

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 01:14 PM
I don't see that happening, he's not the long term answer. I don't see the broncos putting themselves behind the 8 ball knowing that he isn't going to be their long term. They may sign him to a 1 yr deal but nothing more.

Outside of a tag situation, the chances of Orton signing a one year deal anywhere: 0%.

peacepipe
12-17-2009, 01:17 PM
Outside of a tag situation, the chances of Orton signing a one year deal anywhere: 0%.What other options does he have? I don't forsee teams tripping over themselves in a bidding war to sign him. The only long term deal he'll get is as someones backup somewhere.

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 01:49 PM
What other options does he have? I don't forsee teams tripping over themselves in a bidding war to sign him. The only long term deal he'll get is as someones backup somewhere.

Wow. Even the folks that don't like him around here have to admit that he'd probably be an upgrade to at least 10 teams. There may not be a bidding war, but he's not worse than EVERY starter out there. That's insane.

NYBronco
12-17-2009, 02:30 PM
http://www.bangcartoon.com/2009/preseason_update.htm

Funny, just show Brandon the money and all his problems will go away. He will become a better person and player...for example just look at Cutler and how much better he's become with his new team and multi millions.

Send him to Detroit. Hilarious!

Atwater His Ass
12-17-2009, 02:37 PM
Wow. Even the folks that don't like him around here have to admit that he'd probably be an upgrade to at least 10 teams. There may not be a bidding war, but he's not worse than EVERY starter out there. That's insane.

He's also not someone people will be falling over themselves to sign. He's exactly the kind of player that will take the "home town" discount to stay in a better situation with a better team than take a comparable deal in say, Buffalo.

Sad fact is, Orton, not Marshall or Dumervile, is the #1 off-season priority at this point. We don't have anyone else on the roster that can play QB and it would be beyond stupid to draft a kid and not have a vet like Orton around to help guide him through that first season.

Orton's value is to be a mentor and play the transition role for us as we move to a QB that actually has some talent. Wether he is willing to play that role and how much McD is willing to pay him to do it is really the million dollar question, along with how much Orton want's to squeeze Denver since they have no other options besides him atm.

Fact is though, Orton is not the long term solution at QB. The monkey in all of this will be how much of an upgrade another team may see Orton to be for them which will dictate how much they are willing to drive the price up.

Hopefully the $63 million flop of Cassell in KC will have teams thinking twice about upping the ante on mid-tier QB's. And Orton doesn't have the juggernaught single season performance that helped Cassell out so much in getting that sweet deal.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 02:56 PM
Pennington, after 3 shoulder surgeries and getting cut from the Jets, signed with Miami for 12 million for 2 years. People here are totally oblivious if they think Orton would not command at least that on the open market, probably a lot more.

Play2win
12-17-2009, 03:08 PM
I think we are getting Dallas's or Washington's first and third next year.

Yeah, after we hire Shanahan back

Atwater His Ass
12-17-2009, 03:08 PM
So now you're comparing a $12 million deal to a $63 million deal?

Play2win
12-17-2009, 03:11 PM
Who really cares how much they get paid, anyway? It doesn't really matter.

yavoon
12-17-2009, 05:07 PM
gotta pay elite players.

Bronco Yoda
12-17-2009, 05:09 PM
I say pay.

Then again it isn't my money...lol

Atwater His Ass
12-17-2009, 05:43 PM
Who really cares how much they get paid, anyway? It doesn't really matter.

orly?

guess you're right, players never hold out over money, owners never let players go becuase they can't afford them, there is no salary cap, there isn't a cba about to expire, etc.

good thing you cleared that up. money is not an issue in the NFL.

rastaman
12-17-2009, 06:06 PM
Who really cares how much they get paid, anyway? It doesn't really matter.

Yep! It ain't our MONEY!;) Its Bowlens money.....and he's loaded!!:~ohyah!:

Beantown Bronco
12-18-2009, 10:27 AM
Hopefully the $63 million flop of Cassell in KC will have teams thinking twice about upping the ante on mid-tier QB's. And Orton doesn't have the juggernaught single season performance that helped Cassell out so much in getting that sweet deal.

Ummm, what? Their seasons have been identical.

Cassel last year:

89 QB rating
63% completion rate
3700 yds passing
21 TDs
11 INTs

Orton this year (based on his current pace, here's what he'll have):

89 QB rating
63% completion rate
3600 yds passing
20 TDs
10 INTs

bowtown
12-18-2009, 10:31 AM
Ummm, what? Their seasons have been identical.

Cassel last year:

89 QB rating
63% completion rate
3700 yds passing
21 TDs
11 INTs

Orton this year (based on his current pace, here's what he'll have):

89 QB rating
63% completion rate
3600 yds passing
20 TDs
10 INTs

Yeah, but Cassel got them to the playoffs and Orton... oh wait, I mixed them up.

rastaman
12-18-2009, 10:55 AM
You guys are comparing Apples and Oranges. You can't compare stats of last year to stats of this year because situations and circumstances change.

Would it not make more since to compare Cassel and Orton from both of their stats from last year?

Also, Cassel's stats have fell off remarkable this year b/c he's with a lousy team vs Orton is on a better team.

Point is what would have Cassels stat been like here in Denver playing under McD and in a system he's already familiar with! vs going to a new system and a rebuiliding period in KC.

Better yet imagine what Orton's stats would be if he was starting QB in KC?

I think it all comes to the system and talent as to how successful or unsuccessful any QB in the NFL will be.

NFLBRONCO
12-18-2009, 10:56 AM
Baskin is going to trade BM to NE for Moss.

bowtown
12-18-2009, 10:58 AM
You guys are comparing Apples and Oranges. You can't compare stats of last year to stats of this year because situations and circumstances change.

Would it not make more since to compare Cassel and Orton from both of their stats from last year?

Also, Cassel's stats have fell off remarkable this year b/c he's with a lousy team vs Orton is on a better team.

Point is what would have Cassels stat been like here in Denver playing under McD and in a system he's already familiar with! vs going to a new system and a rebuiliding period in KC.

Better yet imagine what Orton's stats would be if he was starting QB in KC?

I think it all comes to the system and talent as to how successful or unsuccessful any QB in the NFL will be.

I have no idea where you stand on anything anymore... I don't think you do either.

Beantown Bronco
12-18-2009, 11:04 AM
You guys are comparing Apples and Oranges. You can't compare stats of last year to stats of this year because situations and circumstances change.

Would it not make more since to compare Cassel and Orton from both of their stats from last year?

Rasta: take a deep breath and scroll up. LOOK AT THE POST I WAS RESPONDING TO.

And Orton doesn't have the juggernaught single season performance that helped Cassell out so much in getting that sweet deal

The poster is claiming that Orton doesn't have a season that compares with Cassel's 2008 season. I cut and pasted those numbers and put them alongside what Orton is doing right now. This IS his "juggernaught" season by the very definition presented to me by the previous poster.

Why are you bringing up Cassel's 2009 numbers? Nobody else is. They are "post monster contract" and do not apply here.

Bob
12-18-2009, 11:08 AM
Pay him. Pay him. Pay him. Pay him. Pay him.

But if you cant pay to keep all of them -- one has to decide, I would hate to loose Elvis, who is just as much of a talent...

jhns
12-18-2009, 11:13 AM
But if you cant pay to keep all of them -- one has to decide, I would hate to loose Elvis, who is just as much of a talent...

We should be able to pay everyone that is playing well. Next year is uncapped as of now. We normally spend a ton on FAs every year. Cut back on the free agent spending and use that money to make sure our young stars stay around.

Atwater His Ass
12-18-2009, 03:22 PM
Ummm, what? Their seasons have been identical.

Cassel last year:

89 QB rating
63% completion rate
3700 yds passing
21 TDs
11 INTs

Orton this year (based on his current pace, here's what he'll have):

89 QB rating
63% completion rate
3600 yds passing
20 TDs
10 INTs

Yeah, I thought I remembered Cassel having a much better year than that.

Regardless, paying $63 million for Cassel was not a good move, but at least part of that was due to the unknown of Cassel. Could he have been a diamond in the rough that got stuck playing beyond Tom Brady? Or is he really the guy that never started a game in college?

Orton is what he is. An average NFL QB playing at his full potential. If he's going to demand a contract like Cassel, Eli Manning, Rothisberger, etc., let him walk. I'm not so sure other teams will be so eager to propel Orton into the top tier of NFL QB salaries.

Are you willing to pay Orton a $60-$100 million dollar deal?

The rub is of course, Denver has absolutely no one behind Orton right now that can play QB. I can't be comfortable seeing this team drafting a rookie QB and starting him right away.

Not sure I know what's worse really. Trading Cutler and bringing in Orton, or after an average season, making Orton a top tier paid QB.

Elway777
12-19-2009, 11:05 PM
If their is no new agreement in labor talks then all players that have fewer then 6 years are retricted free agents. That means the Broncos could just make a first round tender offer around 3 or 4 million to Marshall. They also could franchise him for about 8 to 10 million dollars. It will be interesting to see how Marshall reacts if the Broncos do any of these scenarios. The Broncos could also make Dumervil,Kuper,Orton, and scheffer only first round tender offers without given hugh contracts to any player.This will be a interesting off season.