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Bronco Rob
12-16-2009, 03:08 AM
The Week 14 NFL Quarterback Power Rankings


1. Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints

Anyone who might be a threat to his throne had a non-stellar week, so Brees could've done anything he wanted and kept the top spot. What he did do, though, was complete 31 of 40 passes for 296 yards, three touchdowns, and no interceptions. No one can accuse Drew Brees of resting on his laurels. It wasn't the smoothest of weeks for the Saints, but again, the job was done. I'd say Brees is one more good week away from wrapping up the number one spot here for good.



2. Phillis Rivers, San Diego Chargers

Rivers' performance against the Cowboys was better than the statistics would show: 21-of-32 for 272 yards, one touchdown and one interception. When the Chargers needed one more score to put the gane away, though, Rivers was all that is woman. He went 4-of-5 for 73 yards on the drive, with a touchdown pass to Antonio Gates(notes) capping it off.



3. Brett Favre, Minnesota Vikings

After a five-week interception dry spell, Favre has now thrown three picks in two weeks. Again, I don't think any kind of major meltdown is coming, but we can't proclaim that it's impossible, either. Favre took a backseat to Adrian Peterson in the Vikings attack this week, but he was still more than adequate in the Vikings' beatdown of the Bengals, going 17-of-30 for 192 yards, a touchdown and an interception.


4. Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts

We had some really good stuff from Peyton this week, and some really bad stuff. He started the game like a house of fire, lighting up the Broncos like I asked him to last week. Then he threw three interceptions, two of which were inarguably his own fault. But then, in a game he allowed to get closer than it should have been, he led a quick, beautiful drive that got the Colts the game-sealing touchdown. Again, some good, some bad. Enough bad for a slight drop, but enough good to keep him comfortably in the top five.



5. Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia Eagles

That's three of the last four weeks now that McNabb has had a QB rating over 100, and he gets bonus points on this last one because it came on the road in a huge divisional game. Bonus points, too, because he's the only quarterback in the league who has to deal with another quarterback coming in and breaking his rhythm at random points in the game.



6. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers

Roethlisberger, who has been sacked three more times since I started typing this sentence, didn't have a great outing in the loss to Cleveland. You can tell because the sentence contains the words "loss to Cleveland." Once upon a time, I'd have thought a Roethlisberger vs. Aaron Rodgers(notes) matchup would've been a fun shootout, but who knows what to expect from the Steelers these days.



7. Tony Douchemo, Dallas Failboys

If you'll indulge me, I'd like to use this space to voice an opinion that the Cowboys are not going into some kind of December collapse. They played some pretty damn good football against the Chargers; they just lost to a team that's a little better. Tony Romo has been playing at a high level. And both of those things can continue for the Cowboys, and they can still lose to New Orleans, and it still wouldn't be a December tank-job. It would just be a rough patch of the schedule in a crucial place where the Cowboys aren't getting the bounces. It happens. I think they're about to give the Saints all they can handle.



8. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers

I expected Rodgers to have a better day against the Bears, but it wasn't to be. He was average, at best: 16-of-24 for 180 yards, no touchdowns, no picks. The Packers go as Rodgers goes, so they can't afford too many more performances like that if they're going to hold on to a playoff spot.



9. Matt Schaub, Houston Texans

Congratulations, Matt Schaub, you destroyed the Seahawks when you've been all-but-eliminated from the playoffs. I'd like to go on record with this prediction, too: If the Texans keep winning, and somehow it works out that they're playing in Week 17 with a playoff spot on the line ... Schaub will tank. He might as well show up for that game blindfolded and with his wrists welded together, because that's how he'll play.



10. Kyle Orton,THE Denver Broncos

Welcome back, Kyle Orton! In a stunning comeback, Orton returns to the Top 10 for the first time since Week 5. See, dreams do come true. It could happen for you, too, Eli. Orton's strung together three decent weeks in a row, even if none of them have been awe-inspiring.



Noses pressed against the glass:
Jason Campbell, Washington Redskins
Vince Young, Tennessee Titans
Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
Kurt Warner, Arizona Cardinals
Tom Brady, New England Patriots



http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/The-Week-14-NFL-Quarterback-Power-Rankings;_ylt=AsdJKSO_YQJ2mlFocB37mmxDubYF?urn=nfl ,208915

supermanhr9
12-16-2009, 05:58 AM
That a baby Neck Beard!! Even though he messes up a lot of throws, I still enjoy him more than Cutler hands down.

I know people joke about it, but I wouldn't be against an extension?

TailgateNut
12-16-2009, 07:22 AM
Where's the Jay "I have a stronger arm than superman"?

gyldenlove
12-16-2009, 08:57 AM
Who would have imagined we would see a QB list with Orton above Tom Brady, Jay Cutler and Kurt Warner?

Br0nc0Buster
12-16-2009, 09:01 AM
Kyle Orton 2nd best qb in the AFC West ftw!

Rohirrim
12-16-2009, 09:06 AM
Where's the Jay "I have a stronger arm than superman"?

He's better than Elway. Didn't you know that?

Pony Boy
12-16-2009, 10:34 AM
That's right we are about the 10th best team in the league and will continue to be a little above average team with a little above average QB...

bowtown
12-16-2009, 10:40 AM
That a baby Neck Beard!! Even though he messes up a lot of throws, I still enjoy him more than Cutler hands down.

I know people joke about it, but I wouldn't be against an extension?

Only if it's for 1 and a half years at vet minimum. He should want that deal as he will not find anything better out there.

Black96WS6
12-16-2009, 11:14 AM
Only if it's for 1 and a half years at vet minimum. He should want that deal as he will not find anything better out there.

I disagree. See Raiders as a team in desperate need of a decent QB for example.

Rabb
12-16-2009, 11:18 AM
That's right we are about the 10th best team in the league and will continue to be a little above average team with a little above average QB...

please, please be joking with this

BigPlayShay
12-16-2009, 11:18 AM
Orton needs to be re-signed. Continuity in the long term is what wins in this league. You may have teams that sprout up and have a good season and then fall off, but the teams that are consistently in the playoffs are the teams with continuity at the QB position, and with the Offensive and Defensive philosophies.

bronco militia
12-16-2009, 11:19 AM
http://media.herald-dispatch.com/blog/tuned/uploaded_images/Cartman-751261.JPG

"**** YOU, KYLE!"

tsiguy96
12-16-2009, 11:42 AM
Only if it's for 1 and a half years at vet minimum. He should want that deal as he will not find anything better out there.

please tell me you know more about football than this.

bowtown
12-16-2009, 11:45 AM
please tell me you know more about football than this.

Fine, if he gets us to playoffs, we can throw in a case of Jack or something as an incentive bonus.

jhns
12-16-2009, 11:49 AM
Since Orton is better than Brady, we should work out a trade. I would take that downgrade any day.

Popps
12-16-2009, 11:55 AM
Kyle actually had a really nice game. Not that I advise anyone to watch it again, but it ran on NFLN last night... and he really did make some nice throws. Just one silly throw, but we did end up with the ball back after that.

He played well. A QB generally has to play well to help a QB achieve an all-time NFL record.

Paladin
12-16-2009, 12:06 PM
I just don't undersand the hate for Orton. I can understand the stupidity of some posters here (Neckbeard? Grow up!). But he has done a pretty good job with this Offense. But some people were just butthurt over Cutler and are just not gonna let it be.

Some dupe wrote in the Mailbag in the Post that McD should be fired and Shanahan brought back. Fired for what? Shanahan ain't coming back. So, why can't people grow up? Are they all teenagers?

He's winning. What else matters? Pretty passes? BS. That sorst of thinking is playground crap. Time to move on for a while.....

jhns
12-16-2009, 12:13 PM
I just don't undersand the hate for Orton. I can understand the stupidity of some posters here (Neckbeard? Grow up!). But he has done a pretty good job with this Offense. But some people were just butthurt over Cutler and are just not gonna let it be.

Some dupe wrote in the Mailbag in the Post that McD should be fired and Shanahan brought back. Fired for what? Shanahan ain't coming back. So, why can't people grow up? Are they all teenagers?

He's winning. What else matters? Pretty passes? BS. That sorst of thinking is playground crap. Time to move on for a while.....

You don't understand the hate, I don't understand the love. You credit Orton with winning, I credit the team with winning. You say the offense is doing good, I say the numbers show it is by far the weakest of the main 3 parts of the team(defense, offense, special teams). You say Orton is playing great, I say he is making a lot of superstars on this team useless because he is so limited.

You see, people just don't tend to think the same all of the time. I'm not sure why people can't handle this fact. I'm not sure how these people survive in this world and are a part of this country. Your way of thinking is just as much playground crap.

Irish Stout
12-16-2009, 12:25 PM
Orton is doing fine, he is neither overly sucking nor overly making us a frightening offense. Every week I feel like he is a second or two away from being incredible, then the line breaks down and he rushes out a decent pass or gets rid of the ball. He is making good decisions and with a little more time (I admit hes a slower QB) he could be making great decisions.

I agree that our O looks weak at times, but thats not entirely on Orton... its a team game right jhns?

vancejohnson82
12-16-2009, 12:27 PM
You don't understand the hate, I don't understand the love. You credit Orton with winning, I credit the team with winning. You say the offense is doing good, I say the numbers show it is by far the weakest of the main 3 parts of the team(defense, offense, special teams). You say Orton is playing great, I say he is making a lot of superstars on this team useless because he is so limited.

You see, people just don't tend to think the same all of the time. I'm not sure why people can't handle this fact. I'm not sure how these people survive in this world and are a part of this country. Your way of thinking is just as much playground crap.

the difference is that the people who are saying Orton is a critical part of this team, are sitting back and enjoying the team winning. Those who want Orton gone simply want this season to end so we can get into free agency/the draft. It's pretty simple really. Some people are rooting for the team and its players to do well....while others want certain players to fail so their opinions look right.

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion...it just gets tiring when week in and week out the same players (Moreno, Orton) get dogged out on here, even when they are playing well.

You constantly claim that guys like Royal and Scheffler are being underutilized and maybe they are. But I can distinctly remember both of these guys dropping balls this year that they weren't last year....maybe that's why the playcalling has headed in a different direction.

jhns
12-16-2009, 12:30 PM
I agree that our O looks weak at times, but thats not entirely on Orton... its a team game right jhns?

I agree with that. I just think the falloff of guys like Royal is due to Orton. The offense being horrible on 3rd down, in the red zone, and at scoring has a lot to do with the run game as well as Orton.

tsiguy96
12-16-2009, 12:35 PM
the difference is that the people who are saying Orton is a critical part of this team, are sitting back and enjoying the team winning. Those who want Orton gone simply want this season to end so we can get into free agency/the draft. It's pretty simple really. Some people are rooting for the team and its players to do well....while others want certain players to fail so their opinions look right.

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion...it just gets tiring when week in and week out the same players (Moreno, Orton) get dogged out on here, even when they are playing well.

You constantly claim that guys like Royal and Scheffler are being underutilized and maybe they are. But I can distinctly remember both of these guys dropping balls this year that they weren't last year....maybe that's why the playcalling has headed in a different direction.

moreno might be having a mendenhall rookie season. may take him a year or two, but mendenhall is playing damn well now.

jhns
12-16-2009, 12:42 PM
the difference is that the people who are saying Orton is a critical part of this team, are sitting back and enjoying the team winning. Those who want Orton gone simply want this season to end so we can get into free agency/the draft. It's pretty simple really. Some people are rooting for the team and its players to do well....while others want certain players to fail so their opinions look right.

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion...it just gets tiring when week in and week out the same players (Moreno, Orton) get dogged out on here, even when they are playing well.

You constantly claim that guys like Royal and Scheffler are being underutilized and maybe they are. But I can distinctly remember both of these guys dropping balls this year that they weren't last year....maybe that's why the playcalling has headed in a different direction.

Riiight. That first paragraph is some random thinking. What evidence do you have of this? You obviously don't hang around me on game days.

I have never had anything but good things to say about Moreno. Shoot, I say good things about everyone but Orton. I think we need some new o-line, but even there I think it is that our good players don't fit the new scheme.

Royal came in and mastered Shanahans complex playbook before his rookie season. He was one of the best route runners on the team. I do not remember him screwing up to the point that they would stop calling plays his way. I do not believe that he can't learn the scheme. I do not believe that he suddenly can't run routes, learn playbooks, and catch balls. These are all things he excelled at as a rookie.

At least Orton and Cutler have removed the Elway shadow. Denver fans used to demand good QB play. Now they settle for mediocre play as long as it's from a nice guy. Me? I'm still of the Elway shadow thinking. The best and most consistent teams are the ones that build complete teams around good QBs, not average ones. I would prefer we keep looking for an above average QB.

If you don't agree with any of this, oh well. I have no say anyways. I am very curious what McDaniels thinks of Orton so far. I think it would be pretty funny at this point if he agrees with me. After the crap I hear from those that just want to defend everything McDaniels.

misturanderson
12-16-2009, 12:57 PM
Riiight. That first paragraph is some random thinking. What evidence do you have of this? You obviously don't hang around me on game days.

I have never had anything but good things to say about Moreno. Shoot, I say good things about everyone but Orton. I think we need some new o-line, but even there I think it is that our good players don't fit the new scheme.

Royal came in and mastered Shanahans complex playbook before his rookie season. He was one of the best route runners on the team. I do not remember him screwing up to the point that they would stop calling plays his way. I do not believe that he can't learn the scheme. I do not believe that he suddenly can't run routes, learn playbooks, and catch balls. These are all things he excelled at as a rookie.

At least Orton and Cutler have removed the Elway shadow. Denver fans used to demand good QB play. Now they settle for mediocre play as long as it's from a nice guy. Me? I'm still of the Elway shadow thinking. The best and most consistent teams are the ones that build complete teams around good QBs, not average ones. I would prefer we keep looking for an above average QB.

And that's where you lose me. Orton is a good QB, what you are talking about is an elite QB, of which there aren't many in the league.

There are a lot of QBs playing at a higher level than Orton right now, maybe as many as 14 or 15, but how many of them are playing their first year in a new system on a new team? I would venture to guess that none of them are (except first-ballot hall of famer and 40-year old, Mr. Favre and I'm not sure that this is truly his first year in the system).

Pony Boy
12-16-2009, 01:10 PM
please, please be joking with this

Yes, a little tongue in cheek, but the cold hard fact is we are not going to win a super bowl or beat the chargers until we have a QB that can match up with Rivers or Manning. The true franchise QB has the ability to play with a "sense of urgency" when the game is on the line, they want the ball in their hands like Elway did. Orton does not play with that "sense of urgency”.

Beantown Bronco
12-16-2009, 01:28 PM
Yes, a little tongue in cheek, but the cold hard fact is we are not going to win a super bowl or beat the chargers until we have a QB that can match up with Rivers or Manning. The true franchise QB has the ability to play with a "sense of urgency" when the game is on the line, they want the ball in their hands like Elway did. Orton does not play with that "sense of urgency”.

*cough* *cough*

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101900/2009/REG6/broncos@chargers/recap

Pony Boy
12-16-2009, 01:53 PM
*cough* *cough*

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101900/2009/REG6/broncos@chargers/recap

Fair enough but you know and I know if we play them 5 times in a row they will beat us 4 out of 5 and our teams match up real well in every area except at the QB position. Answer me this, would you trade Orton for Rivers in an even swap?

SJ Bronco
12-16-2009, 01:54 PM
I think we are missing why this list sucks........Big Ben @ 6

misturanderson
12-16-2009, 01:55 PM
Fair enough but you know and I know if we play them 5 times in a row they will beat us 4 out of 5 and our teams match up real well in every area except at the QB position. Answer me this, would you trade Orton for Rivers in an even swap?

This would only be true if all of the games are played in December.

bowtown
12-16-2009, 01:57 PM
Fair enough but you know and I know if we play them 5 times in a row they will beat us 4 out of 5 and our teams match up real well in every area except at the QB position. Answer me this, would you trade Orton for Rivers in an even swap?

Wouldn't everybody? What point are you trying to make with this?

misturanderson
12-16-2009, 01:58 PM
Wouldn't everybody? What point are you trying to make with this?

The real question is how many QBs in the league WOULDN'T you trade for Rivers? I bet you can count that number on less than 1 hand.

Rabb
12-16-2009, 01:59 PM
Fair enough but you know and I know if we play them 5 times in a row they will beat us 4 out of 5 and our teams match up real well in every area except at the QB position. Answer me this, would you trade Orton for Rivers in an even swap?

who wouldn't?

I don't think anyone is making that case, I think the case is...Orton is doing his job

Beantown Bronco
12-16-2009, 02:02 PM
Answer me this, would you trade Orton for Rivers in an even swap?

Yes, but all that proves is that I think Rivers is a better QB than Orton. I mean, seriously, as much as we all hate the guy, he's clearly one of the 5 or so best QBs in the entire league. I can name at least 25 other teams that would trade their QB for him straight up as well. Does that mean NONE of those 25 teams could win a SB with their current QB? No way.

You don't need a Rivers or Manning to win the SB. Is it nice to have? You bet. Does it possibly make it easier to win? Probably. But there are many ways to win games and SBs, and there's no reason why a team with Orton at QB couldn't win the SB provided their defense and special teams play at a decent level and don't crap the bed. And our's are doing just that for the most part. Why else would we have a winning record against division winners and teams currently slated to appear in the playoffs?

Black96WS6
12-16-2009, 02:04 PM
Yes, but all that proves is that I think Rivers is a better QB than Orton. I mean, seriously, as much as we all hate the guy, he's clearly one of the 5 or so best QBs in the entire league. I can name at least 25 other teams that would trade their QB for him straight up as well. Does that mean NONE of those 25 teams could win a SB with their current QB? No way.

You don't need a Rivers or Manning to win the SB. Is it nice to have? You bet. Does it possibly make it easier to win? Probably. But there are many ways to win games and SBs, and there's no reason why a team with Orton at QB couldn't win the SB provided their defense and special teams play at a decent level and don't crap the bed. And our's are doing just that for the most part. Why else would we have a winning record against division winners and teams currently slated to appear in the playoffs?

Exhibit A: Trent Dilfer? ;)

Triplelefthook
12-16-2009, 02:50 PM
I know the stats have to put Brees at #1. But I am not so sure Rivers wouldn't be doing just as good if not better if you put him in NO, surrounded him with a top 5 running game, a scoring/turnover-forcing defense, and the comparable set of receiving threats Brees has right now.

2KBack
12-16-2009, 02:59 PM
I know the stats have to put Brees at #1. But I am not so sure Rivers wouldn't be doing just as good if not better if you put him in NO, surrounded him with a top 5 running game, a scoring/turnover-forcing defense, and the comparable set of receiving threats Brees has right now.

I highly doubt it. Brees was just as good last year with no running game, Injured receivers, and one of the worst defenses in the league. I think Rivers is a damn good QB, but he benefits from his team's talent just as much as Brees does, maybe even more.

Triplelefthook
12-16-2009, 03:14 PM
I highly doubt it. Brees was just as good last year with no running game, Injured receivers, and one of the worst defenses in the league. I think Rivers is a damn good QB, but he benefits from his team's talent just as much as Brees does, maybe even more.

Its a good point, I do think Brees is playing better this year. He has a QB rating almost 20 points higher than his rating last year.

If you look at Rivers and Brees, when they have had comparable teams they have had very similar success rates in terms of Reg Season wins and playoff wins.

Difference is that Brees has the edge in Reg Season wins, Rivers has the edge in Playoff wins, and imo quality playoff wins/performances.

Also couple that with Rivers' unblemished record in December, and his ability to carry his team at times last year and this year I think Rivers is getting better and hasn't hit his ceiling yet where Brees might be at his ceiling.

Inkana7
12-16-2009, 03:18 PM
Its a good point, I do think Brees is playing better this year. He has a QB rating almost 20 points higher than his rating last year.

If you look at Rivers and Brees, when they have had comparable teams they have had very similar success rates in terms of Reg Season wins and playoff wins.

Difference is that Brees has the edge in Reg Season wins, Rivers has the edge in Playoff wins, and imo quality playoff wins/performances.

Also couple that with Rivers' unblemished record in December, and his ability to carry his team at times last year and this year I think Rivers is getting better and hasn't hit his ceiling yet where Brees might be at his ceiling.
I think you're forgetting that Brees went to ****ing New Orleans.

Triplelefthook
12-16-2009, 03:34 PM
I think you're forgetting that Brees went to ****ing New Orleans.

And?

The same statement holds true for when they both had comparable teams in San Diego.

It's true that Brees went to a team that was down in the dumps, but the resurgence they experienced was not all on Brees' shoulders. I believe he was surrounded with a superior coaching staff (superior to Norv Turner's crew), and a personnel staff that drafted very well (Colston, Bush) and schemed to their talents even better.

Brees does deserve a lot of credit for the team's resurgence, but i think Rivers deserves a lot of credit for what he did last year as well with that team, and the year before in the playoffs with key injuries to guys like LaDanian and Gates.

Rigs11
12-16-2009, 03:41 PM
where's the jackass that said that Orton should not get credit for the redskins game becasue the receivers he threw to were wide open. that argument was my favorite. freaking priceless.Ha!

Inkana7
12-16-2009, 03:54 PM
And?

The same statement holds true for when they both had comparable teams in San Diego.

It's true that Brees went to a team that was down in the dumps, but the resurgence they experienced was not all on Brees' shoulders. I believe he was surrounded with a superior coaching staff (superior to Norv Turner's crew), and a personnel staff that drafted very well (Colston, Bush) and schemed to their talents even better.

Brees does deserve a lot of credit for the team's resurgence, but i think Rivers deserves a lot of credit for what he did last year as well with that team, and the year before in the playoffs with key injuries to guys like LaDanian and Gates.

New Orleans had the #2 Overall pick the year before Brees came to town. That year they were in the NFC Championship game. Rivers took over a very talented team. Brees took over the Saints. THE SAINTS. Brees has been more impressive than Rivers.

Triplelefthook
12-16-2009, 04:02 PM
New Orleans had the #2 Overall pick the year before Brees came to town. That year they were in the NFC Championship game. Rivers took over a very talented team. Brees took over the Saints. THE SAINTS. Brees has been more impressive than Rivers.

And since Rivers has taken over the team has gotten progressively worse around him - downgrades on defense, coaching staff, and the running game.

In the face of all this Rivers has gotten better and that is why they have remained at a similar level as a team.

I think Rivers has been more impressive. Both have been incredibly impressive, mind you. I feel like Rivers' supporting casts have been getting worse or not improving significantly while Brees' has been improving bit by bit every year since his arrival

2KBack
12-16-2009, 04:23 PM
And since Rivers has taken over the team has gotten progressively worse around him - downgrades on defense, coaching staff, and the running game.

In the face of all this Rivers has gotten better and that is why they have remained at a similar level as a team.

I think Rivers has been more impressive. Both have been incredibly impressive, mind you. I feel like Rivers' supporting casts have been getting worse or not improving significantly while Brees' has been improving bit by bit every year since his arrival

I think Rivers has much better talent surrounding him in the passing game now. No, they don't run like they used to, but they don't seem to need to. Rivers can throw jump balls all day long to his giant receivers. I'm not saying that Rivers isn't pretty good, bordering on great, I just think you can't understate the kinda football Brees has been playing the last few seasons.

DBroncos4life
12-16-2009, 04:25 PM
moreno might be having a mendenhall rookie season. may take him a year or two, but mendenhall is playing damn well now.

I was thinking the same thing. I mean one back is on pace for over 1000 yards and possibly the ROY and the other played in three games and went on IR during his rookie year. It took Mendenhall till week four in his second year to become the starting back. Maybe we will get lucky and Moreno will follow suit.

Paladin
12-16-2009, 04:29 PM
You don't understand the hate, I don't understand the love. You credit Orton with winning, I credit the team with winning. You say the offense is doing good, I say the numbers show it is by far the weakest of the main 3 parts of the team(defense, offense, special teams). You say Orton is playing great, I say he is making a lot of superstars on this team useless because he is so limited.

You see, people just don't tend to think the same all of the time. I'm not sure why people can't handle this fact. I'm not sure how these people survive in this world and are a part of this country. Your way of thinking is just as much playground crap.

You are so full of crap. I did not say he was great nor did I say he was the only cause of the Broncos winning games. Your hate is so strong you cannot hear or read what is being said. That is so childish and stupid. Of course that fits you, anyway. I can understand people not thinking the same way, but you're so biased it makles you look retarded.....

Perhaps you should stop making assumptions about me, because that is making an arse out of you and your posts. You cannot get past your hate on Orton that you cannot enjoy the fact that this team - including Orton - is on the cusp of a playoff position. Something that your boy Quitler could not accomplish, even with three free cracks at it. And Shanahan was done.

Try and grow up....

jhns
12-16-2009, 04:31 PM
Try and grow up....

Good luck with that.

tsiguy96
12-16-2009, 04:59 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I mean one back is on pace for over 1000 yards and possibly the ROY and the other played in three games and went on IR during his rookie year. It took Mendenhall till week four in his second year to become the starting back. Maybe we will get lucky and Moreno will follow suit.

and moreno also seems lost on half his runs, to say hes been impressive constantly is nuts. almost like they are coaching the instincts out of him right now to avoid mistakes which doesnt help us either.

Triplelefthook
12-16-2009, 05:20 PM
I think Rivers has much better talent surrounding him in the passing game now. No, they don't run like they used to, but they don't seem to need to. Rivers can throw jump balls all day long to his giant receivers. I'm not saying that Rivers isn't pretty good, bordering on great, I just think you can't understate the kinda football Brees has been playing the last few seasons.

I think their passing talent is very comparable - neither side being "much better," as you say. Rivers has an edge here, i agree - his weapons include the best or 2nd best TE in football in Antonio Gates (you can argue Dallas Clark is #1 or #2, either way they are the best of the best), and Jackson is an excellent WR also.

I think Brees has comparable talent tho - with Shockey and Colston. Brees has more consistent personnel recently too with Colston, Meechum, and Henderson all staying while Rivers has had Chambers/Floyd and then Nanee as well.

In terms of size you have Gates at 6'4 vs. Shockey at 6'5. Vincent Jackson at 6'5 vs. M. Colston at 6'4... i see that as a wash. Nanee and Meechum are both 6'2. Chambers and Henderson are both 5'11, granted recently Chambers was released and replaced by Floyd who is 6'5... so edge to Rivers.

But if you are talking about this year - there is a drastic difference that far outweighs the 6 inches Malcolm Floyd has over Devery Henderson...

The Chargers offense is ranked 31st in rushing offense. The Saints are 5th. THAT is the biggest reason why one team is 10-3 and the other is 13-0, imo

2KBack
12-16-2009, 05:50 PM
I think their passing talent is very comparable - neither side being "much better," as you say. Rivers has an edge here, i agree - his weapons include the best or 2nd best TE in football in Antonio Gates (you can argue Dallas Clark is #1 or #2, either way they are the best of the best), and Jackson is an excellent WR also.

I think Brees has comparable talent tho - with Shockey and Colston. Brees has more consistent personnel recently too with Colston, Meechum, and Henderson all staying while Rivers has had Chambers/Floyd and then Nanee as well.

In terms of size you have Gates at 6'4 vs. Shockey at 6'5. Vincent Jackson at 6'5 vs. M. Colston at 6'4... i see that as a wash. Nanee and Meechum are both 6'2. Chambers and Henderson are both 5'11, granted recently Chambers was released and replaced by Floyd who is 6'5... so edge to Rivers.

But if you are talking about this year - there is a drastic difference that far outweighs the 6 inches Malcolm Floyd has over Devery Henderson...

The Chargers offense is ranked 31st in rushing offense. The Saints are 5th. THAT is the biggest reason why one team is 10-3 and the other is 13-0, imo

We are obviously at an impasse here. I think Rivers is good, but I think Brees is much better, at least for now. This is a guy that is setting the statistic book on fire, and he has been doing it even when his weapons are off the field. 70% completion percentage with over 400 attempts, 32 Tds to 10 ints? that's ridiculous.

Oh yeah, and SD's scoring defense is still better than NO's

Triplelefthook
12-16-2009, 06:19 PM
We are obviously at an impasse here. I think Rivers is good, but I think Brees is much better, at least for now. This is a guy that is setting the statistic book on fire, and he has been doing it even when his weapons are off the field. 70% completion percentage with over 400 attempts, 32 Tds to 10 ints? that's ridiculous.

Oh yeah, and SD's scoring defense is still better than NO's

True, i think both these guys are good don't get me wrong. Manning, Brees and Rivers imo are the top 3 QBs in the league, imo. Throw Farva & Rodgers in that mix too, fine.

My main point is that I really don't think either one (Brees or Rivers) is "much better" than the other. I think they are remarkably comparable, with a couple factors making Rivers a little more impressive. We can disagree on that and its almost just like splitting hairs.

SD allows 19.9 pts per game and NO allows 21.1, but do you know how to find out which defense has forced more turnovers and/or scored more points in terms of fumbles and pick-6's?

Rivers has over 400 attempts, 22 Tds to 7 Ints and 65% completion - i think that is pretty ridiculous too considering you have the second to last productive running game (31st) vs. the 5th best running game.

2KBack
12-16-2009, 07:46 PM
True, i think both these guys are good don't get me wrong. Manning, Brees and Rivers imo are the top 3 QBs in the league, imo. Throw Farva & Rodgers in that mix too, fine.

My main point is that I really don't think either one (Brees or Rivers) is "much better" than the other. I think they are remarkably comparable, with a couple factors making Rivers a little more impressive. We can disagree on that and its almost just like splitting hairs.

SD allows 19.9 pts per game and NO allows 21.1, but do you know how to find out which defense has forced more turnovers and/or scored more points in terms of fumbles and pick-6's?

Rivers has over 400 attempts, 22 Tds to 7 Ints and 65% completion - i think that is pretty ridiculous too considering you have the second to last productive running game (31st) vs. the 5th best running game.

Impressive for sure, I think we just have personal leanings

Triplelefthook
12-16-2009, 07:53 PM
Impressive for sure, I think we just have personal leanings

agreed. And i think its comparable to the Farva-Rodgers comparison some people might say if you surrounded Rodgers with the talent Farva has in Minnesota he might do as well or better...

either way they are all elite QBs. What I wanted to convey here most of all is whatever your personal leanings are, or whatever your opinion I don't think its laughable to consider one to be slightly better than the other....

and i think Brees' league leading QB rating and 13-0 team record leads people to automagically conclude that Brees is by far better - i just think its a closer battle and a legitimate argument the other way too

Broncos_OTM
12-16-2009, 10:21 PM
I really love this team. and i cant wait to see this team in the playoffs. I love the offseason and all that junk although i think its to long.

Ortons frist year in this system he is completeing 62.9% of his passes. I Consider that to be encrouraging. Especially if he can improve on that next year. His Touch down to Interception ratio is 2 to 1

I think this offense needs another YAC reciever. Eddie Royal has a problem with beating the jam and teams know that so with the short yardage routes he runs teams just jam him at the line. That i believe is single handely the biggest reason We havent seen much of royal this year. Hes got good speed and i think if we want to get him involved more its gonna need to be a deep ball or two a game.

Dez Bryant would most certainly help this offense. great size and can beat the jam. If you are a guy that wants to better this offense look at him. besides the OG C and DE we can usually pick those guys up in the mid rounds and find good talent at those positions. I am not advocating this i just think if you want a better passing game he is your guy.

One arguement for a qb is that as it seems this team is on the upswing and might not get the chance to grab a qb like this in a couple of years due to not having a pick this high. I like Orton yet There are a couple of gifted QB's in this draft. Again i am not advocating this i am just putting it out there

Br0nc0Buster
12-16-2009, 10:46 PM
I really love this team. and i cant wait to see this team in the playoffs. I love the offseason and all that junk although i think its to long.

Ortons frist year in this system he is completeing 62.9% of his passes. I Consider that to be encrouraging. Especially if he can improve on that next year. His Touch down to Interception ratio is 2 to 1

I think this offense needs another YAC reciever. Eddie Royal has a problem with beating the jam and teams know that so with the short yardage routes he runs teams just jam him at the line. That i believe is single handely the biggest reason We havent seen much of royal this year. Hes got good speed and i think if we want to get him involved more its gonna need to be a deep ball or two a game.

Dez Bryant would most certainly help this offense. great size and can beat the jam. If you are a guy that wants to better this offense look at him. besides the OG C and DE we can usually pick those guys up in the mid rounds and find good talent at those positions. I am not advocating this i just think if you want a better passing game he is your guy.

One arguement for a qb is that as it seems this team is on the upswing and might not get the chance to grab a qb like this in a couple of years due to not having a pick this high. I like Orton yet There are a couple of gifted QB's in this draft. Again i am not advocating this i am just putting it out there

I agree with this to an extent
If you plan on being a playoff contender year in and year out, you wont have an opportunity to draft a qb with "elite" talent

I dont think we will draft a qb and I have no problem with Orton, I like him and think he is solid.
At the same time if we took a qb I wouldnt have a problem with it since we may be in a position that doesnt come along very often for playoff caliber teams

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 07:31 AM
I think this offense needs another YAC reciever. Eddie Royal has a problem with beating the jam and teams know that so with the short yardage routes he runs teams just jam him at the line. That i believe is single handely the biggest reason We havent seen much of royal this year. Hes got good speed and i think if we want to get him involved more its gonna need to be a deep ball or two a game.

I don't want this point to go overlooked by jhns and rasta, guys who seem to want to blame all of Royal's struggles on Orton. I just did a little digging and this goes back to last year. The great majority of Royal's success last year happened in his first 8 games, when teams had little to no film on him and hadn't quite figured out his weaknesses. Check out these numbers:

First 8 games: 52 receptions for 625 yds and 4 TDs

Last 7 games (missed one with injury): 39 receptions for 355 yds and 1 TD (with almost a third of that coming in the final game against SD in garbage time when they were clearly just trying to get him his 100 receptions and SD was playing way off him).

jhns
12-17-2009, 07:38 AM
Last 7 games (missed one with injury): 39 receptions for 355 yds and 1 TD .

You do realize this averages out to 811 yards and 89 catches over a season, right?

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 07:43 AM
You do realize this averages out to 811 yards and 89 catches over a season, right?

6.5 rec/game
78 yds/game
.5 TDs/game

5.5 rec/game
50 yds/game
.14 TDs/game

You're right. There's no dropoff there whatsoever.

Now everyone has that film on him and can adjust.

jhns
12-17-2009, 07:51 AM
6.5 rec/game
78 yds/game
.5 TDs/game

5.5 rec/game
50 yds/game
.14 TDs/game

You're right. There's no dropoff there whatsoever.

Now everyone has that film on him and can adjust.

Take out the first game and the first half is way different. you are not bringing some great argument. Even after he was "figured out" he was still putting up a pace of one of the best ever rookie receiver years. You twist it any way you want, it is nothing like the dropoff he has had since working with Orton as his QB.

So you really want to start this? How do you explain Stokley? How about Sheffler? How about Clady? How about Weigmann? How about Kuper? How about Harris? How about Hillis? How about everyone other than Marshall? This isn't just a problem with Royal. They all have had huge dropoffs in play. It can all be explained by having an extemely limited QB. It could also be from a bad system that doesn't take advantage of what players do well. Since I have seen the system work and I have watched Orton, I blame Orton.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 08:13 AM
http://rlv.zcache.com/insert_oversimplification_bumper_sticker-p128402237966444381tmn6_210.jpg

::)

misturanderson
12-17-2009, 08:27 AM
Take out the first game and the first half is way different. you are not bringing some great argument. Even after he was "figured out" he was still putting up a pace of one of the best ever rookie receiver years. You twist it any way you want, it is nothing like the dropoff he has had since working with Orton as his QB.

So you really want to start this? How do you explain Stokley? How about Sheffler? How about Clady? How about Weigmann? How about Kuper? How about Harris? How about Hillis? How about everyone other than Marshall? This isn't just a problem with Royal. They all have had huge dropoffs in play. It can all be explained by having an extemely limited QB. It could also be from a bad system that doesn't take advantage of what players do well. Since I have seen the system work and I have watched Orton, I blame Orton.

Or maybe it can be explained by a much tougher defensive schedule, a completely new scheme for the entire offense, injuries, age, other teams having more tape on our 2 rookies from last year and a distant last a new QB (calling him extremely limited is hyperbole at best).

jhns
12-17-2009, 08:39 AM
Or maybe it can be explained by a much tougher defensive schedule, a completely new scheme for the entire offense, injuries, age, other teams having more tape on our 2 rookies from last year and a distant last a new QB (calling him extremely limited is hyperbole at best).

This offense isn't producing. The defense has all new players AND a full new scheme. They are one of the best defenses in the league. The offense last year was all rookie-third year guys. Not only were they still learning new systems, they were still learning the NFL. This entire team did not suddenly get worse. The system excuse is just that, another excuse. It is a little late in the season to still be using it. At any rate, a system change does not account for that dropoff. It could account for some dropoff, but it doesn't make everyone forget how to play.

That sophmore slump excuse would work a little better if he was doing anything at all. They didn't get some tape and figure out how to completely shut him down. He has been open a ton and either missed or not thrown to. You guys are really this blind? What exactly is it about a crap offense that you feel you need to defend so much? Orton is not a good QB. I have to laugh at how crazy You guys are about him. Do you even watch the games anymore?

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 08:57 AM
He has been open a ton and either missed or not thrown to.

BS. ONLY way you can determine this is by being at the game in person or if they make a point of showing him in replays waving his arms around.

Mr.Meanie
12-17-2009, 08:58 AM
So you really want to start this? How do you explain Stokley? How about Sheffler? How about Clady? How about Weigmann? How about Kuper? How about Harris? How about Hillis? How about everyone other than Marshall? This isn't just a problem with Royal. They all have had huge dropoffs in play. It can all be explained by having an extemely limited QB. It could also be from a bad system that doesn't take advantage of what players do well. Since I have seen the system work and I have watched Orton, I blame Orton.

Wow. All of that is because of Orton? You clearly have no clue about football.

TailgateNut
12-17-2009, 09:01 AM
Wow. All of that is because of Orton? You clearly have no clue about football.


But he can argue "till the cows come home".

jhns
12-17-2009, 09:04 AM
Wow. All of that is because of Orton? You clearly have no clue about football.

Yeah, the QB does tend to have something to do with the performance of everyone else in the passing game. Crazy thinking, I know.

You guys got me. Orton is such a great QB. We must just have a crap system that is unable to take advantage of the players strengths. So you all are right, we are screwed for a long time as an offense. Let's hope we keep Nolan around for a long time.

jhns
12-17-2009, 09:07 AM
BS. ONLY way you can determine this is by being at the game in person or if they make a point of showing him in replays waving his arms around.

Again, which game do you want me to break down for you? I will back up every one of my claims. Tell me a game you are able to rewatch and I will give you exact times. I have all of them. You will have to wait some hours for me to get home but I have no problem rewatching some games for you.

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 09:29 AM
Again, which game do you want me to break down for you? I will back up every one of my claims. Tell me a game you are able to rewatch and I will give you exact times. I have all of them. You will have to wait some hours for me to get home but I have no problem rewatching some games for you.

I have every win saved on my dvr. For obvious reasons I delete the losses, though I may still have Indy on there.

sixtimeseight
12-17-2009, 10:00 AM
The real question is how many QBs in the league WOULDN'T you trade for Rivers? I bet you can count that number on less than 1 hand.

Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger are all pretty much heads and tails better than Rivers, and an argument could be made for Palmer, Schaub, Ryan, Flacco, McNabb, Romo and Eli Manning. So, I wouldn't exactly say you could count the number on less than one hand. Which would be zero hands incidentally.

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 10:16 AM
Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger are all pretty much heads and tails better than Rivers, and an argument could be made for Palmer, Schaub, Ryan, Flacco, McNabb, Romo and Eli Manning. So, I wouldn't exactly say you could count the number on less than one hand. Which would be zero hands incidentally.

I can pretty much guarantee that you are the only one that would rank Rivers that low.

Mr.Meanie
12-17-2009, 10:18 AM
Yeah, the QB does tend to have something to do with the performance of everyone else in the passing game. Crazy thinking, I know.

You guys got me. Orton is such a great QB. We must just have a crap system that is unable to take advantage of the players strengths. So you all are right, we are screwed for a long time as an offense. Let's hope we keep Nolan around for a long time.

Arent' you the one who keeps throwing around the "one man team" rebuttal in response to Orton's win record?

jhns
12-17-2009, 10:21 AM
Arent' you the one who keeps throwing around the "one man team" rebuttal in response to Orton's win record?

Which is exactly why I only blame him for his part, not for every team problem. Anyways, I think this is a good team. I think Orton is bad and it could be a much more complete team with a better QB. I feel we are a QB and a few interior lineman away from a great offense. So, what exactly are you saying? If I was doing the one man team argument, I would be saying everything sucks because Orton does. Kind of like how you guys act like Orton is winning us games by himself.

TailgateNut
12-17-2009, 10:55 AM
Arent' you the one who keeps throwing around the "one man team" rebuttal in response to Orton's win record?


He is "the one", but only uses that when it supports his weak arguments.

sixtimeseight
12-17-2009, 10:57 AM
I can pretty much guarantee that you are the only one that would rank Rivers that low.

That's nice.

bowtown
12-17-2009, 11:02 AM
Which is exactly why I only blame him for his part, not for every team problem. Anyways, I think this is a good team. I think Orton is bad and it could be a much more complete team with a better QB. I feel we are a QB and a few interior lineman away from a great offense. So, what exactly are you saying? If I was doing the one man team argument, I would be saying everything sucks because Orton does. Kind of like how you guys act like Orton is winning us games by himself.

You say this but you say this:

So you really want to start this? How do you explain Stokley? How about Sheffler? How about Clady? How about Weigmann? How about Kuper? How about Harris? How about Hillis? How about everyone other than Marshall? This isn't just a problem with Royal. They all have had huge dropoffs in play. It can all be explained by having an extemely limited QB. It could also be from a bad system that doesn't take advantage of what players do well. Since I have seen the system work and I have watched Orton, I blame Orton.

So which is it?

jhns
12-17-2009, 11:11 AM
You say this but you say this:



So which is it?

Exactly. Orton gets blame for his part of the team. I don't say the entire team is bad because Orton is bad. I don't say we lose every game for having a bad QB. I say the passing game is lacking because we have a bad QB. I'm not sure how you guys see this as the same thing. Your arguments are getting pretty lame and reaching quite a bit.

jhns
12-17-2009, 11:14 AM
He is "the one", but only uses that when it supports his weak arguments.

LOL

I hurt his feelings at one time. He can't help it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-17-2009, 11:24 AM
You say this but you say this:



So which is it?

Why do you guys insist upon beating up on the slow kid. He's got his idiotic opinions and takes, he can keep them without bothering you.

This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list.

See? Awesome.

TailgateNut
12-17-2009, 11:25 AM
You say this but you say this:



So which is it?

Is the wind blowing out of the east, or the west?:wiggle:

jhns
12-17-2009, 11:28 AM
Why do you guys insist upon beating up on the slow kid. He's got his idiotic opinions and takes, he can keep them without bothering you.

This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list.

See? Awesome.

The children have come out to play. That should move this thread along nicely.

If my opinions offend you, I would suggest listening to moose. Otherwise you will end up sounding like bitter old ladies, just like moose and tailgate.

jhns
12-17-2009, 12:42 PM
You say this but you say this:



So which is it?

So are any of you going to attempt to back this logic up? Do I need to simplify it so you can explain it?

Tell me which of these two statements is wrong and tell me how they contradict each other:

1) A QB does not win games on his own. This is a team sport and a team must play well to win.

2) Receivers and o-line performance is affected by QB play.

Come on. All of you call me out with this 2 year old logic and no one can explain it? The funny thing is I bet a lot of you are naïve enough to think you are just defending McDaniels and the teams position. In reality, they could be thinking the same thing as me. It will be pretty funny seeing what you all say if they change QBs this offseason.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-17-2009, 01:23 PM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Talking to yourself now, jhns? Trying desperately to become relevant?

What would happen if you were put on ignore by everyone here? If a moron spouts off in a forest, and no one is around to hear his bull****, is he still retarded?

jhns
12-17-2009, 01:26 PM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Talking to yourself now, jhns? Trying desperately to become relevant?

What would happen if you were put on ignore by everyone here? If a moron spouts off in a forest, and no one is around to hear his bull****, is he still retarded?

Haven't moved on from the 4th grade insults yet, huh? Is this the same ignore you used in the past?

Irish Stout
12-17-2009, 01:49 PM
Tell me which of these two statements is wrong and tell me how they contradict each other:

1) A QB does not win games on his own. This is a team sport and a team must play well to win.

Right, as a QB needs someone to block for him and needs someone to catch his balls.

2) Receivers and o-line performance is affected by QB play.

Receivers absolutely, the o-line, not as much. Whether you have Brady or Manning or Elway or Orton, an O-line is either going to create a good pocket or appropriately block... or they're not. Some QBs may allow more sacks by the time they spend behind the line with the ball, or the movement they make, but a good O-line can be recognized despite sacks allowed from a poor quarterback. A QB like Elway, Roethlsiberger, Elway, Plummer or Cutler have (or had) the ability to scramble when the O-line begins to break down allowing themselves more time to make a play. A QB like Manning, Marino or Orton will rely more on a strong O-line to make it through their reads and make the appropriate play. So in that way you can argue that a more mobile QB can make an O-line look better, but really its the O-line that can make an imobile QB look better.



I do not exactly deny your logic, but I don't understand what you base your opinion of Orton on based on this logic. We all admit Orton is not a top 5 QB, but save for those top 5 QBs and a few top 10 "mobile" QBs, there aren't that many people who could do more with this O when the line breaks down. And this line is breaking down more and more quickly each week, typically giving Orton 2 to 3 seconds to decide on a play.

Kyle Orton is ranked 16th amongst all QBs in the league for yards, 15th for QB rating, 12th for plays of 40+ yards, 14th for completions, 12th for completion percentage, and tied for 10th in fewest Interceptions thrown (behind several QBs who have started fewer games, i.e. McNabb, Young, Collins, Hasslebeck, Quinn). Behind an O-line that is not holding up like last year, he's not doing bad.... some might say he is even doing well.

Rigs11
12-17-2009, 01:50 PM
So are any of you going to attempt to back this logic up? Do I need to simplify it so you can explain it?

Tell me which of these two statements is wrong and tell me how they contradict each other:

1) A QB does not win games on his own. This is a team sport and a team must play well to win.

2) Receivers and o-line performance is affected by QB play.

Come on. All of you call me out with this 2 year old logic and no one can explain it? The funny thing is I bet a lot of you are naïve enough to think you are just defending McDaniels and the teams position. In reality, they could be thinking the same thing as me. It will be pretty funny seeing what you all say if they change QBs this offseason.


You forgot one.

3)QB performance is affected by o-line play

Irish Stout
12-17-2009, 01:52 PM
You forgot one.

3)QB performance is affected by o-line play

Sometimes less is more. Thanks Rigs for simplifying what I rambled on about.

jhns
12-17-2009, 02:09 PM
I do not exactly deny your logic, but I don't understand what you base your opinion of Orton on based on this logic. We all admit Orton is not a top 5 QB, but save for those top 5 QBs and a few top 10 "mobile" QBs, there aren't that many people who could do more with this O when the line breaks down. And this line is breaking down more and more quickly each week, typically giving Orton 2 to 3 seconds to decide on a play.

Kyle Orton is ranked 16th amongst all QBs in the league for yards, 15th for QB rating, 12th for plays of 40+ yards, 14th for completions, 12th for completion percentage, and tied for 10th in fewest Interceptions thrown (behind several QBs who have started fewer games, i.e. McNabb, Young, Collins, Hasslebeck, Quinn). Behind an O-line that is not holding up like last year, he's not doing bad.... some might say he is even doing well.

My first point includes defense and special teams, just so that is clear.

I can agree with a lot of what you are saying on the second point. I may just hate Orton but I seem to see him have more time than you guys give our line credit for. I have also agreed with people that we need some new interior o-line to help with that and the run game. It isn't like I am saying Orton is the only thing making our offense horrible on third downs, in the red zone, and at scoring in general. There is no denying the offense has problems. It is bad at everything you want to be good at other than not turning it over.

I am very interested to see what McDaniels says(or does to fix it) is the problem in the offseason. I may be wrong that Orton is part of the problem. I don't think I am wrong that there is one. Again, I think it will be pretty funny to see what a lot here have to say if Orton is replaced. Will it be because he played so well? We'll see.

jhns
12-17-2009, 02:11 PM
You forgot one.

3)QB performance is affected by o-line play

It can also be affected by receiver play or playcalling. How does that make my statements wrong/contradict each other?

Irish Stout
12-17-2009, 02:13 PM
My first point includes defense and special teams, just so that is clear.

I can agree with a lot of what you are saying on the second point. I may just hate Orton but I seem to see him have more time than you guys give our line credit for. I have also agreed with people that we need some new interior o-line to help with that and the run game. It isn't like I am saying Orton is the only thing making our offense horrible on third downs, in the red zone, and at scoring in general. There is no denying the offense has problems. It is bad at everything you want to be good at other than not turning it over.

I am very interested to see what McDaniels says(or does to fix it) is the problem in the offseason. I may be wrong that Orton is part of the problem. I don't think I am wrong that there is one. Again, I think it will be pretty funny to see what a lot here have to say if Orton is replaced. Will it be because he played so well? We'll see.

We had redzone woes last year too and last year I believed our O-line to be one of the best in the league. Interesting to watch this new wrinkle.

I personally will be REALLY suprised to see a replacement for Orton come into the system. I truly suspect that McD will attempt to groom Branstader more over the next year to replace Orton in a couple years. Thats just my thought and, for now, I will probably give McD the benefit of the doubt no matter what happens.

Paladin
12-17-2009, 02:20 PM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Yep. Works wonders. No moire BS posts from that retard.....

jhns
12-17-2009, 02:23 PM
I personally will be REALLY suprised to see a replacement for Orton come into the system. I truly suspect that McD will attempt to groom Branstader more over the next year to replace Orton in a couple years. Thats just my thought and, for now, I will probably give McD the benefit of the doubt no matter what happens.

Then you think the same as me. The only thing I claim is that Orton has not shown he is the long term answer with his play this season. Most threads I just say I would like to see real competition brought in. I don't usually claim he needs replaced right away. Branstater could be that competition, I just don't rally for him because I have no clue. Sometimes my posts take a more dramatic stance but usually just when dealing with certain posters.

I never claim Orton is the only reason we aren't doing great on offense. We have also had the same rushing problem for years. Now it shows a little more because we try the power run game more. If I was in charge of fixing the offense at this second, I would get a C, LG, and QB.

jhns
12-17-2009, 02:24 PM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Yep. Works wonders. No moire BS posts from that retard.....

Awww, just as I thought we were becoming good friends.

Inkana7
12-17-2009, 02:33 PM
Kyle Orton is awesome. /end thread.

Irish Stout
12-17-2009, 03:12 PM
Kyle Orton is awesome. /end thread.

Don't end the thread, I want to bask in his awesomeness!!! I love Orton!

sixtimeseight
12-17-2009, 07:07 PM
It took you guys this long to put jhsnfsns on ignore? I put him there after I read like four of his posts.

TailgateNut
12-18-2009, 07:05 AM
It took you guys this long to put jhsnfsns on ignore? I put him there after I read like four of his posts.


Just a matter of time, and he will be talking to himself.:thumbsup:

Paladin
12-18-2009, 07:11 AM
It took you guys this long to put jhsnfsns on ignore? I put him there after I read like four of his posts.

Actually, up until lately, I had been able to tolerate a certain amount of boorishness, but he just raised it to a whole new level of boorishness. Sorst of an UltraBoor. I think he should get a little red spandex suit with a big "U" on it.......

UltraBoor. Champion of BS......

jhns
12-18-2009, 07:28 AM
Actually, up until lately, I had been able to tolerate a certain amount of boorishness, but he just raised it to a whole new level of boorishness. Sorst of an UltraBoor. I think he should get a little red spandex suit with a big "U" on it.......

UltraBoor. Champion of BS......

This is the kind of thing that will be funny to bring up when McDaniels shows Orton isn't the long term answer this offseason. I'm full of it for pointing out our offensive problems? Do you guys honestly think we are good on offense, or that the only problem is on the line? (this is a question for others). Everyone just gets offended that I don't think Orton is great. None of you actually try discussing this. We are horrible in every offensive area that matters other than turnovers. Is this all explained by the o-line? Is a system change a good enough excuse for being this bad? How long is a system change allowed to be used as an excuse? How long should I be waiting before this stuff is really a concern?

These conversations would go better if people actually tried discussing it rather than just get upset that I don't think Orton is good. If you don't want to discuss it, don't. Instead, I get all of this crying from people that post like 4 year olds and tell me I need to grow up. Should I quote some examples of this again?

Also, I'm not sure why you guys hype the ignore feature. Most of you say this constantly and then start responding to my posts a week later. I get it though, it is hard to quit me.

Paladin
12-18-2009, 07:32 AM
<TABLE class=tborder id=post2680473 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=5 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt1>This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).


Works Great!
</TD></TR><!-- / main bar --></TBODY></TABLE><!-- / close content container --><!-- / post #2680473 -->


<!-- start content table --><!-- open content container -->

jhns
12-18-2009, 07:34 AM
You are so full of crap. I did not say he was great nor did I say he was the only cause of the Broncos winning games. Your hate is so strong you cannot hear or read what is being said. That is so childish and stupid. Of course that fits you, anyway. I can understand people not thinking the same way, but you're so biased it makles you look retarded.....

Perhaps you should stop making assumptions about me, because that is making an arse out of you and your posts. You cannot get past your hate on Orton that you cannot enjoy the fact that this team - including Orton - is on the cusp of a playoff position. Something that your boy Quitler could not accomplish, even with three free cracks at it. And Shanahan was done.

Try and grow up....

I get that you have me on ignore but this is to good with all the crap talk you are starting. Do you read your posts? I am the one that needs to grow up? Name calling? Getting upset about one line that exagerated a little while ignoring all of the real points? Going on about something that has nothing to do with the thread or post? What, this is mature posting? Ok, I guess I will follow your example from now on Mr. Do-do head.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-18-2009, 11:42 AM
Just a matter of time, and he will be talking to himself.:thumbsup:

It appears he is already.

jhns
12-18-2009, 11:50 AM
It appears he is already.

I had to find someone that was capable of an intelligent conversation.

jhns
12-18-2009, 12:00 PM
I had to find someone that was capable of an intelligent conversation.

I agree. I think the biggest problem is they take themselves to seriously and have a very low maturity level. You are the man though jhns. Keep up the good work.

Beantown Bronco
12-18-2009, 12:16 PM
Some recent footage of jhns:

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z-NA94Buchw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z-NA94Buchw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

jhns
12-18-2009, 12:18 PM
Some recent footage of jhns:

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z-NA94Buchw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z-NA94Buchw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

I can't view flash right now. Do you have another format?

bowtown
12-18-2009, 12:20 PM
I can't view flash right now.

Orton's fault.

jhns
12-18-2009, 12:21 PM
Orton's fault.

This is exactly what I have been saying all along.

jhns
12-18-2009, 12:23 PM
This is exactly what I have been saying all along.

No you didn't jhns. Flash just got brought into the conversation a minute ago. Don't sink to their level with the immaturity and lies.

jhns
12-18-2009, 12:27 PM
No you didn't jhns. Flash just got brought into the conversation a minute ago. Don't sink to their level with the immaturity and lies.

You are correct as always jhns. I didn't really say anything about flash before that. Sorry for the attempt at deception everyone.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-18-2009, 12:40 PM
Orton's fault.

Heh. Always.

snowspot66
12-18-2009, 02:02 PM
I agree with that. I just think the falloff of guys like Royal is due to Orton. The offense being horrible on 3rd down, in the red zone, and at scoring has a lot to do with the run game as well as Orton.

It was just as bad with Cutler and he could physically do it all.

Yeah Royal and other guys have fallen off a bit but at the rate we're going we'll probably throw the ball around 150 times fewer give or take a bit. That's around 100 completions fewer to spread around. We're a much more balanced offense this year but our run game still can't handle the short yardage to score in the red zone or keep drives alive.

jhns
12-18-2009, 02:12 PM
It was just as bad with Cutler and he could physically do it all.

Yeah Royal and other guys have fallen off a bit but at the rate we're going we'll probably throw the ball around 150 times fewer give or take a bit. That's around 100 completions fewer to spread around. We're a much more balanced offense this year but our run game still can't handle the short yardage to score in the red zone or keep drives alive.

Cutler has nothing to do with what I said. If the offense has problems with him then it still has problems.

I don't agree that Royal has fallen off a bit. You wouldn't think he could play reciever looking at him this year.

jhns
12-18-2009, 02:18 PM
reciever

It's receiver dumbass.

jhns
12-18-2009, 02:20 PM
It's receiver dumbass.

Whatever grammer nazi.

jhns
12-18-2009, 02:22 PM
Whatever grammer nazi.

It's grammar dummy. Now stop trying to run up your post count and take an English class.

jhns
12-18-2009, 02:25 PM
This message is hidden because jhns is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

Mr.Meanie
12-18-2009, 02:30 PM
Do you mind if we just keep the spamming to the Peyton Hillis thread? He's close to breaking off 2k posts in this system

TonyR
12-18-2009, 02:44 PM
I don't agree that Royal has fallen off a bit. You wouldn't think he could play reciever looking at him this year.

I must admit that Royal's lack of production this year has me bummed out. Particularly since I live in Eagle's country and have to endure all the slobbering over DeSean Jackson. I'd really like to see him put up some numbers in the remaining games, and it would be great if he was a major factor to a win in Philly.

bayarealightning
12-18-2009, 04:04 PM
Its a good point, I do think Brees is playing better this year. He has a QB rating almost 20 points higher than his rating last year.

If you look at Rivers and Brees, when they have had comparable teams they have had very similar success rates in terms of Reg Season wins and playoff wins.

Difference is that Brees has the edge in Reg Season wins, Rivers has the edge in Playoff wins, and imo quality playoff wins/performances.

Also couple that with Rivers' unblemished record in December, and his ability to carry his team at times last year and this year I think Rivers is getting better and hasn't hit his ceiling yet where Brees might be at his ceiling.
Actually, Rivers has a better regular season record (winning %) and playoff victories. Also, Brees has never beaten the Broncos. FYI.