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View Full Version : The Official Peyton Hillis Poll


Popps
12-06-2009, 06:11 PM
Because one 650 post thread about a 3rd string RB isn't enough...

BroncoDoug
12-06-2009, 06:12 PM
inb4poll~~~!!@#$$

Popps
12-06-2009, 06:13 PM
inb4poll~~~!!@#$$

http://forums.bit-tech.net/picture.php?albumid=87&pictureid=2959

NYBronco
12-06-2009, 06:15 PM
McD wants the best players on the field to win the MFing game. No mystery here.

BroncoDoug
12-06-2009, 06:15 PM
kinda hard to argue putting Hillis above Knowshon and Buck at this point....

go_broncos
12-06-2009, 06:18 PM
Hillis is better than Moreno and Buck.

BroncoDoug
12-06-2009, 06:19 PM
Hillis is better than Moreno and Buck.

How so?

go_broncos
12-06-2009, 06:26 PM
How so?

Do you have confidence in our RBs in short yardage situations.

I believe our team will be better if Hillis touches the ball more often.

baja
12-06-2009, 06:27 PM
If this isn't 100% for 'A' than we have liars or fools here.

tsiguy96
12-06-2009, 06:28 PM
Do you have confidence in our RBs in short yardage situations.

I believe our team will be better if Hillis touches the ball more often.

true, hillis has earned hte right to get carries. but not steal a ton from those 2, they are playing great.

Popps
12-06-2009, 06:28 PM
If this isn't 100% for 'A' than we have liars or fools here.

C'mon, dude. You know the answer to that.

broncosteven
12-06-2009, 06:35 PM
I thought Hillis played well at the end of the game, his last carry he ran over 2 guys changing a loss into an 11 yard gain.

I think Moreno is OK but Hillis should get at least 5 carries per game. I hope he earned more carries this week with his performance in mop up action.

BroncoInferno
12-06-2009, 06:35 PM
Hillis is better than Moreno and Buck.

Yes. His 47 yards against KCs scrubs in garbage time proves that conclusively. Far more impressive than Buckhalter and Moreno combining for 199 yards and 2 TDs against KCs starters when they were actually trying to win.

baja
12-06-2009, 06:38 PM
C'mon, dude. You know the answer to that.

I'm just sayin.... ;D

Pony Boy
12-06-2009, 06:39 PM
None of the above, I think McDaniel's is a racist and doesn't want to piss of the 2 bros......:afro:

Hercules Rockefeller
12-06-2009, 06:46 PM
He'd done nothing through 11 games, 3 quarters, and 10 minutes to warrant anything more than his garbage time today. I'm happy he performed, but he received what he'd earned up to this point.

NYBronco
12-06-2009, 06:48 PM
Buckhalter came up injured again in the third quarter. It will be good to see Hillis get more well earned reps with the starting offense in the event it begins to affect our running game with the injuries and inconsistency.

Lolad
12-06-2009, 06:49 PM
I went with the other option. Hillis shouldve been used as our short yardage back. Vs tough defenses I believe he could be the 3rd option.

Oh... Cut Lamont jordan tomorrow

BlaK-Argentina
12-06-2009, 07:11 PM
I believe he should get a few carries here or there because he can make things happen. That said, I don't know if you take away carries from Buck or Know because they've done so well... our running game kicked ass today so I wouldn't change a thing. Give the bulk of the carries to Moreno+Buck and get Hillis in there late in the fourth when D's are tired. Hillis with Larsen blocking is a sight to see. Great power.

Taco John
12-06-2009, 07:14 PM
Wow. Popp's second thread on Hillis on the front page. This must really get to him.

I think Hillis is being under-utilized. His performance today pretty well showed that. The more touches the guy gets, the more obvious it will get. I wonder why Josh can't manage to get such a valuable threat on the field, especially towards the end of games. We could have been doing this all year.

UberBroncoMan
12-06-2009, 07:17 PM
I don't like the options because I think both are correct.

I agree with A... why shouldn't anyone? That's been a motto of his.

I also think that McDaniels has not given Hillis enough of an opportunity in situations where he should seemingly flourish (ie. short yardage, and 4th quarter against worn down defenses who would have a hell of a time stopping a fresh and bruising player such as Hillis).

No coach is 100% correct about 100% of their players.

Bad poll options... not enough gray area.

cabronco
12-06-2009, 07:22 PM
I agree with Taco. I think we could of utilized him much more this year, especially when the ground game was stuggling, or the 3rd and short we were having problems with. I think he should mix into the rb rotation more.

Don Flamenco
12-06-2009, 07:23 PM
I just think Buck should be our feature backat this point. I see him faster than Knowshon with better vision as well.

Buck, Knowshon, Hillis. In that order with the ammount of carries a game.

Bronx33
12-06-2009, 07:31 PM
I don't like the options because I think both are correct.

I agree with A... why shouldn't anyone? That's been a motto of his.

I also think that McDaniels has not given Hillis enough of an opportunity in situations where he should seemingly flourish (ie. short yardage, and 4th quarter against worn down defenses who would have a hell of a time stopping a fresh and bruising player such as Hillis).

No coach is 100% correct about 100% of their players.

Bad poll options... not enough gray area.



I agree...

Taco John
12-06-2009, 07:32 PM
If you disagree with the way a player is being utilized (or in this case, under-utlized), you are a Bronco hater.

Get with the program!

rastaman
12-06-2009, 07:32 PM
true, hillis has earned hte right to get carries. but not steal a ton from those 2, they are playing great.

Agreed! Looks like we got the making of an over crowded back field. Can't play everybody.

All the competitive talented players in the NFL just want the chance to compete and get the opportunity to showcase their talents. The reality is, when the RB position is over stocked with talent, two things happen.

Coaches must juggle and make the hard decision who to go with. And players playing on a team with the crowed back field of talent must look at themselves in the mirror and come to the decision whether they are the odd man out. And as a result, seek a trade or out right release to sign with another team to get the opportunity to play RB.

I hope next year Buckhalter is the odd man out (nothing personal against Buckhalter). But with his history of injury and his age, Buckhalter isn't the future. That nod goes to Hillis!

McDman
12-06-2009, 07:35 PM
I voted for the second. I'd just like to see him in about 5 plays a game.

Gort
12-06-2009, 07:36 PM
paper beats rock
rock beats scissors
scissors beats paper
peyton hillis beats all three!

:thumbs:

Popps
12-06-2009, 07:42 PM
If you disagree with the way a player is being utilized (or in this case, under-utlized), you are a Bronco hater.

Get with the program!

Does it say that somewhere, Taco?

Let me reread the OP....

Nope.


However, you were the one on another thread claiming that Shanahan "got the most out of" Hillis last season (82 total yards through 11 weeks) and that McDaniels was failing as a coach because he wasn't playing Hillis.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 07:43 PM
With 4 games remaining, Moreno and Buckhalter should continue their roles. However, when it comes to 3rd and short to extend drives btwn the 20's, inside the red zone and on the goal line.....I want Hillis out there! And of course in the playoffs you go with your hottest most productive player(s).

During the month of December and in the playoffs.....its no time to play favorites. Its about putting the team in position to win.

Popps
12-06-2009, 07:46 PM
During the month of December and in the playoffs.....its no time to play favorites. Its about putting the team in position to win.

Exactly.

Hence, the best performers will be on the field, as they have been all season.... and those who are buried 3-deep on the depth chart will remain there unless they prove they should be ahead of those in front of them.

I'd love to see Hillis get more carries. It'll mean he's earned them.

Don Flamenco
12-06-2009, 07:46 PM
Wow. Popp's second thread on Hillis on the front page. This must really get to him.

I think Hillis is being under-utilized. His performance today pretty well showed that. The more touches the guy gets, the more obvious it will get. I wonder why Josh can't manage to get such a valuable threat on the field, especially towards the end of games. We could have been doing this all year.


Or at least give him more touches in the 4th when the defenders start slowing down.

Taco John
12-06-2009, 07:47 PM
Does it say that somewhere, Taco?

Let me reread the OP....

Nope.


However, you were the one on another thread claiming that Shanahan "got the most out of" Hillis last season (82 total yards through 11 weeks) and that McDaniels was failing as a coach because he wasn't playing Hillis.


The tone of your thread is clear. And everyone here knows what Shanahan got out of Hillis last year, despite your fun house mirror spin on it.

Hillis has been underutilized. I think people can see that clearly. We didn't get anything out of him today that we couldn't have gotten all year. Hopefully Josh wakes up and starts giving the guy more opportunities.

Popps
12-06-2009, 07:50 PM
The tone of your thread is clear. And everyone here knows what Shanahan got out of Hillis last year, despite your fun house mirror spin on it.

Yep, 82 yards through 11 weeks.... then when all other options were used up, he got a whopping 350 yards on the season from him. (1 100 yard game.)

Amazing job of "getting" something out of him, huh?

::)

Check the poll results, sport. The only one spinning is you. This is one of your more embarrassing campaigns. I'm fairly sure it's an act, it's so idiotic.

Don Flamenco
12-06-2009, 07:50 PM
I see him slowly eatuing up the clock in the 4th quarter ala Reuben Droughns ala 2004

Lev Vyvanse
12-06-2009, 07:52 PM
The tone of your thread is clear. And everyone here knows what Shanahan got out of Hillis last year, despite your fun house mirror spin on it.

Hillis has been underutilized. I think people can see that clearly. We didn't get anything out of him today that we couldn't have gotten all year. Hopefully Josh wakes up and starts giving the guy more opportunities.

After Hall, Young, Pittman, and Torain went down with injuries.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 08:03 PM
Exactly.

Hence, the best performers will be on the field, as they have been all season.... and those who are buried 3-deep on the depth chart will remain there unless they prove they should be ahead of those in front of them.

I'd love to see Hillis get more carries. It'll mean he's earned them.

Screw the depth chart at this stage in the season. The politics and mind games of the depth charts only hold sway from July-Oct. November and December is the time for recognizing who are your best players are! B/c the playoffs are on the line!

The reality is neither Moreno nor Buckhalter have played with enough consistency. Just from his gimpy knee alone, Buckhalter could have been 3rd on the depth chart. There have been games when Moreno as a rookie was fumbling the ball, he to too could have slid down to 3rd on the depth chart.

In either of these scenarios Hillis could have been 2nd on the depth chart; and thus gotten the opportunity to play and contribute with the first team.

The reality is....the cat is out the bag now! Moreno and Buckhalter had better bring to the table the same attributes and intangibles that Hillis brings to the table the last 4 games and into the post season, b/c if they don't! Theres no way McD can justify keeping Hillis out of any games for the remainder of the season.

Depth Chart and politics....be Damned! Let's lineup and just play some football.

BroncoInferno
12-06-2009, 08:04 PM
I think Hillis is being under-utilized. His performance today pretty well showed that.

Today confirmed nothing more than Hillis can perform well against a defeated, tired defense in garbage time. To say otherwise is ignorance akin to BroncoBuff declaring Chris Simms our best option at QB based on one decent half of football in the preseason. In the meantime, Buckhalter and Moreno combined for 199 yards and 2 TDs, and you're crying about the guy who mopped up in garbage time against scrubs.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 08:06 PM
I see him slowly eatuing up the clock in the 4th quarter ala Reuben Droughns ala 2004

Ummmmm.......I see Peyton making impacts, contributions, and scoring TD's in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th qtrs.

GreatBronco16
12-06-2009, 08:10 PM
I want Hillis out there! And of course in the playoffs you go with your hottest most productive player(s).

During the month of December and in the playoffs.....its no time to play favorites. Its about putting the team in position to win.

Well first, it doesn't matter who you want out there. Second, come playoffs and wanting the hottest players out there.....well guess what sport? Hillis isn't one of the hottest players.

So great job of debunking your own post.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 08:11 PM
Today confirmed nothing more than Hillis can perform well against a defeated, tired defense in garbage time. To say otherwise is ignorance akin to BroncoBuff declaring Chris Simms our best option at QB based on one decent half of football in the preseason. In the meantime, Buckhalter and Moreno combined for 199 yards and 2 TDs, and you're crying the guy who mopped up in garbage time against scrubs.

Point is, Moreno and Hillis will not face a KC type defense over the next 4 games and into the the playoffs as well. Should any of the two falter i.e. fumbles and not pick up 3rd and short!....ya gotta give the "Beast-II" a chance to revitalize the rushing attack.

Besides if you were asked who has the brightest future btwn Buckhalter vs Hillis, its not rocket science that its Hillis. Plain and simple.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 08:17 PM
Well first, it doesn't matter who you want out there. Second, come playoffs and wanting the hottest players out there.....well guess what sport? Hillis isn't one of the hottest players.

So great job of debunking your own post.

Yeah I hear you. Point is, if you were honest you know Gimpy Knee'd Buckhalter can breakdown any week! And you can say that Buckhalter has taken carries away from Peyton! Buckhalter hasn't been the 2nd hottest RB on game day from week-to-week b/c he's been injured and Hillis should have gotten Buckhalters carries.

But hey, its all good. The rubber is about to hit the road the last 4 weeks and its time for both Moreno and Buckhalter to show consistency and its time for McD to give Hillis more carries and opportunities.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 08:20 PM
Today confirmed nothing more than Hillis can perform well against a defeated, tired defense in garbage time. To say otherwise is ignorance akin to BroncoBuff declaring Chris Simms our best option at QB based on one decent half of football in the preseason. In the meantime, Buckhalter and Moreno combined for 199 yards and 2 TDs, and you're crying about the guy who mopped up in garbage time against scrubs.

It proves that Hillis wasn't given any opportunites to play with Denver's first team offense aganist the KC's first team defense....thats all that was proven!

It doesn't say or indicate how Peyton would have responded, contributed, and played had he gotten touches in the 1st, and 2nd qtrs!!

baja
12-06-2009, 08:23 PM
Wow. Popp's second thread on Hillis on the front page. This must really get to him.

I think Hillis is being under-utilized. His performance today pretty well showed that. The more touches the guy gets, the more obvious it will get. I wonder why Josh can't manage to get such a valuable threat on the field, especially towards the end of games. We could have been doing this all year.

I don't pretend to second guess Josh given the job he has done but I will say Hillis looked pretty damn good today against a gassed defense.

Bronco Yoda
12-06-2009, 08:36 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/netizen/Bronco%20Avs/Yoda/yoda-pimping-easy-it-is-not.jpg

Kaylore
12-06-2009, 08:43 PM
Wow. Popp's second thread on Hillis on the front page. This must really get to him.

I think Hillis is being under-utilized. His performance today pretty well showed that. The more touches the guy gets, the more obvious it will get. I wonder why Josh can't manage to get such a valuable threat on the field, especially towards the end of games. We could have been doing this all year.

Uhh I hope this post was mostly designed to just get Popps' goat, b/c there's a lot of crazy ideas in there.

GreatBronco16
12-06-2009, 08:47 PM
Buckhalter hasn't been the 2nd hottest RB on game day from week-to-week b/c he's been injured and Hillis should have gotten Buckhalters carries.


No, normally, he's been the best RB we have on game day.

I think Hillis will get his chance in the playoffs if we get there.

Bronco Yoda
12-06-2009, 09:05 PM
Ok all you Hillis haters. We got your names now. I don't want to hear **** from any of you when he gets his chance to blow up.

misturanderson
12-06-2009, 09:06 PM
I just think Buck should be our feature backat this point. I see him faster than Knowshon with better vision as well.

Buck, Knowshon, Hillis. In that order with the ammount of carries a game.

The issue with Buckhalter is that any more than about 12 carries in a game and he's bound to get hurt (as was evident today). He is like Tatum Bell in that he is explosive and can do damage with a few carries a game, but he simply can't carry a complete load.

I think that if he wasn't so fragile, he would have already been the featured back on some other team in the NFL before this offseason. He's definitely got the talent.

BroncoDoug
12-06-2009, 09:09 PM
I just think Buck should be our feature backat this point. I see him faster than Knowshon with better vision as well.

Buck, Knowshon, Hillis. In that order with the ammount of carries a game.

I don't agree with that. I think Buck is best when he is getting limited touches. I don't see him as a 20-25 carry a game back. I think knowshon should get more carries with Buck getting 13-16 carries a game knowson 20-25 and Hillis 5-7 touches. Just my opinion.

Bronco Yoda
12-06-2009, 09:10 PM
IMO Buck is the best back when fresh. His splits show a drop off after 10 touches. You have to be careful with him. Use him a little in the 1st half to allow a little juice in the 2nd half. If he had the endurance, he'd be a true feature back. I'm still gald we have him in our stable.

Bronco Yoda
12-06-2009, 09:15 PM
I don't agree with that. I think Buck is best when he is getting limited touches. I don't see him as a 20-25 carry a game back. I think knowshon should get more carries with Buck getting 13-16 carries a game knowson 20-25 and Hillis 5-7 touches. Just my opinion.

I vote for C-Buck getting a dozen touches (split between halfs) the rest equally split between Hillis and Moreno. Let's face it. We don't really have a true 25-30 touch feature back. But we do have a nice group to get the job done in any situation.

broncocalijohn
12-06-2009, 09:18 PM
Do you have confidence in our RBs in short yardage situations.

I believe our team will be better if Hillis touches the ball more often.

That is only one part of being a running back. I know he is a beast to bring down and I would have confidence in short yard gains, but starting ahead of Buckhalter and Moreno is something that the coaches see (and Ive seen two pretty good backs eating up yards). I will trust McDaniels and his staff on this one. I would like to see him get more reps and then use him for blocking on passing situations since the other two have not been very dominate at stopping the bum rush (one on one). When McDaniels sees the Hillis can perform, he will get more touches. Plus, Rasta chosed Option 2 stating McDaniels doesnt know what he is doing. If you are opposite of Rastaman, you are most likely correct.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 09:22 PM
No, normally, he's been the best RB we have on game day.

I think Hillis will get his chance in the playoffs if we get there.

If you want to get to the playoffs......you had better allow Hillis to play with the first team offense!

Teams are secretly hoping McD is dumb enough to only give Hillis 0-5 carries over the final 4 weeks.

broncocalijohn
12-06-2009, 09:23 PM
Ok all you Hillis haters. We got your names now. I don't want to hear **** from any of you when he gets his chance to blow up.

It has nothing to do with hating Hillis. It is we trust McDaniels judgement on him. We suspect Hillis is dumb as a rock according to reports but it isnt concrete. We can only go by hear-say. I do have confidence in him, but the other two guys are playing well. If you want your "hater" poll, start one up.

~Crash~
12-06-2009, 09:25 PM
Because one 650 post thread about a 3rd string RB isn't enough...

Can you tell me this why do you keep making poles you do not vote anyone Else . beside you a ****ing pulling for people to not do good for our team.

Taco John
12-06-2009, 09:25 PM
I don't pretend to second guess Josh given the job he has done but I will say Hillis looked pretty damn good today against a gassed defense.

I don't know why everyone on this site suddenly lost their gift for second guessing when a 33 year old coach got hired. I suppose some day people will get back to their normal selves.

That said, I think Josh has done a fine job. But I think he's under-utilizing Hillis. I think with the way our offense has been, having a guy who can punish a defense like Hillis is going to be nothing but good all around.

I don't care how good Moreno or Buckhalter are, neither of them hits a linebacker the way Hillis does.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 09:26 PM
That is only one part of being a running back. I know he is a beast to bring down and I would have confidence in short yard gains, but starting ahead of Buckhalter and Moreno is something that the coaches see (and Ive seen two pretty good backs eating up yards). I will trust McDaniels and his staff on this one. I would like to see him get more reps and then use him for blocking on passing situations since the other two have not been very dominate at stopping the bum rush (one on one). When McDaniels sees the Hillis can perform, he will get more touches. Plus, Rasta chosed Option 2 stating McDaniels doesnt know what he is doing. If you are opposite of Rastaman, you are most likely correct. Without reading one post after the one I just quoted, I am sure he responded and many posts to respond to him. He will carry this much farther than it is worth. McChamp, wanna bet?

Don't worry, the Bronco Defense sure would like to see a RB out there that can pick up 3rd and short! You know why? B/c that means the offense is sustaining drives and giving the Defense a much appreciated and deserved rest!

The Defenses worse nightmare is to endure another game with Orton, Moreno, and Buckhalter unable to move the offense and the Defense is getting worn down as a result.

The Defense knows Hillis can move the chains and provide scoring if given enough opportunities.

~Crash~
12-06-2009, 09:27 PM
to the people that vote in popps poles you are dip ****s . he does not vote in poles he is not putting his x out there .

Taco John
12-06-2009, 09:29 PM
Check the poll results, sport. The only one spinning is you. This is one of your more embarrassing campaigns. I'm fairly sure it's an act, it's so idiotic.

No act here. I believe in Hillis.

Popps
12-06-2009, 09:29 PM
to the people that vote in popps poles you are dip ****s . he does not vote in poles he is not putting his x out there .

Ummm... yea, I did vote, Skipper.


Oh, and feel free to mix in some English for your next post.

~Crash~
12-06-2009, 09:29 PM
I don't know why everyone on this site suddenly lost their gift for second guessing when a 33 year old coach got hired. I suppose some day people will get back to their normal selves.

That said, I think Josh has done a fine job. But I think he's under-utilizing Hillis. I think with the way our offense has been, having a guy who can punish a defense like Hillis is going to be nothing but good all around.

I don't care how good Moreno or Buckhalter are, neither of them hits a linebacker the way Hillis does.

true but I don't mind a 250# mad as hell RB fresh this time of the year .:yayaya:

rastaman
12-06-2009, 09:30 PM
It has nothing to do with hating Hillis. It is we trust McDaniels judgement on him. We suspect Hillis is dumb as a rock according to reports but it isnt concrete. We can only go by hear-say. I do have confidence in him, but the other two guys are playing well. If you want your "hater" poll, start one up.

No excuses now! Either Moreno and Buckhalter move the chains consistently enough for the Defense to rest sufficiently or McD needs to allow Hillis to see if he can help the running attack!

Kaylore
12-06-2009, 09:31 PM
I don't know why everyone on this site suddenly lost their gift for second guessing when a 33 year old coach got hired. I suppose some day people will get back to their normal selves.

That said, I think Josh has done a fine job. But I think he's under-utilizing Hillis. I think with the way our offense has been, having a guy who can punish a defense like Hillis is going to be nothing but good all around.

I don't care how good Moreno or Buckhalter are, neither of them hits a linebacker the way Hillis does.

Hillis is bigger and more physical, but he clearly has problems and he didn't do anything that Buckhalter and Moreno didn't do all game with less fresh legs. And before you keep praising Shanahan like he had better coaching or personnel acumen than McD, remember that Hillis was buried on Shanahan's depth chart and inactive early last year and only got to start after every other running back got hurt.

And let me go on record right now and say that Larsen is a better blocker than Hillis and he keeps getting better. I think Hillis has physical ability in the stratosphere with his hands and power, but he's not very fast, isn't good on special teams, and most importantly has head full of sand. If you don't know the game plan it's hard to let the coach trust you week to week. Shoot, Hillis doesn't even seem to know the snap count half the time.

Popps
12-06-2009, 09:31 PM
No act here. I believe in Hillis.

Great. We all think he's talented. Plenty of talented players have to develop the proper work ethic and demonstrate the proper mastery of the system.

When Peyton does both of those things, there's no question McDaniels will work him into the line-up. As one of Hillis' biggest and most vocal supporters last season, I very much look forward to Peyton earning reps.

Until then, our coach will start the players who are best prepared, and are giving us the best chance to win, as he's done during our 8-4 start.

~Crash~
12-06-2009, 09:32 PM
Ummm... yea, I did vote, Skipper.


Oh, and feel free to mix in some English for your next post.

Change the subject all you like putz you don't vote on polls BS man !

Bronco Yoda
12-06-2009, 09:32 PM
I do like that we're putting leatherhead in there to help Moreno out. It has shown to make a big difference IMO. Moreno needs a FB.

baja
12-06-2009, 09:32 PM
I don't know why everyone on this site suddenly lost their gift for second guessing when a 33 year old coach got hired. I suppose some day people will get back to their normal selves.

That said, I think Josh has done a fine job. But I think he's under-utilizing Hillis. I think with the way our offense has been, having a guy who can punish a defense like Hillis is going to be nothing but good all around.

I don't care how good Moreno or Buckhalter are, neither of them hits a linebacker the way Hillis does.

You're right as to being reluctant about second guessing Josh, I suppose I chose to have confidence in Josh until he makes verifiable mistakes IMO which to this point on his side of the ball I don't think he has made any glaring errors. I trust he has his reasons why Hillis is "under used". He (Hillis) seems too obvious a talent to merely overlook him.

GreatBronco16
12-06-2009, 09:36 PM
If you want to get to the playoffs......you had better allow Hillis to play with the first team offense!

Teams are secretly hoping McD is dumb enough to only give Hillis 0-5 carries over the final 4 weeks.

Ok, so you're saying that if Hillis doesn't get more playing time, Denver will miss the playoffs? Gotcha.

Second, well, I really don't know what to say to that idiotic rambling, except for which teams have you talked to that told you this? My guess would be none.

Popps
12-06-2009, 09:37 PM
Moreno interview after the game...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1114939/knowshon-moreno


Gives props to Hillis for running hard.

Also says all of the right things. It's easy to understand why the coaches love this kid.

broncocalijohn
12-06-2009, 09:37 PM
Don't worry, the Bronco Defense sure would like to see a RB out there that can pick up 3rd and short! You know why? B/c that means the offense is sustaining drives and giving the Defense a much appreciated and deserved rest!

The Defenses worse nightmare is to endure another game with Orton, Moreno, and Buckhalter unable to move the offense and the Defense is getting worn down as a result.

The Defense knows Hillis can move the chains and provide scoring if given enough opportunities.

I agree. I also got rid of some of those lines at the bottom of my post after going back and reading some of the responses. I dont want to lose a bet to McChamp! I actually dont necessarily disagree with you except the post where we dont make the playoffs because hillis doesnt get first team reps (that is the rasta we all know). We have been frustrated with not making 3rd and short or even 4th downs. Hillis is the type of back that can make defenses frustrated when they cant bring him down. There is just something of a reason why McDaniels doesnt play him more. Maybe he was coming around during the week of practice and got some opps. Our problem is that we just dont blow many teams out of the water and backups get their chance to get their feet wet. I hope Hillis is doing well and can come in as a specialty if he cant get ahead of the other two. Hell, he can probably block better than what I have seen from Buck and Moreno. Have him block or draw play him a run.

Popps
12-06-2009, 09:39 PM
Change the subject all you like putz you don't vote on polls BS man !

Ummm... Crash, please have someone at home direct you to the top of the first page, where you'll see my name very clearly as having voted.

It's in alphabetical order. (If you need help with that part, let us know.)

Bronco Yoda
12-06-2009, 09:41 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/netizen/Bronco%20Avs/haters_gonna_hate.gif

rastaman
12-06-2009, 09:44 PM
I agree. I also got rid of some of those lines at the bottom of my post after going back and reading some of the responses. I dont want to lose a bet to McChamp! I actually dont necessarily disagree with you except the post where we dont make the playoffs because hillis doesnt get first team reps (that is the rasta we all know). We have been frustrated with not making 3rd and short or even 4th downs. Hillis is the type of back that can make defenses frustrated when they cant bring him down. There is just something of a reason why McDaniels doesnt play him more. Maybe he was coming around during the week of practice and got some opps. Our problem is that we just dont blow many teams out of the water and backups get their chance to get their feet wet. I hope Hillis is doing well and can come in as a specialty if he cant get ahead of the other two. Hell, he can probably block better than what I have seen from Buck and Moreno. Have him block or draw play him a run.

No problem broncalijhon, we both want the same thing and the fans as, and that's to the offense get it done against the great defenses.

~Crash~
12-06-2009, 09:45 PM
Ummm... Crash, please have someone at home direct you to the top of the first page, where you'll see my name very clearly as having voted.

It's in alphabetical order. (If you need help with that part, let us know.)

In about 90% of poles you do not vote . I have seen this over the years.

mhgaffney
12-06-2009, 10:04 PM
I think when you need tough yards up the middle you run Hillis.

Moreno is a slasher -- not a pounder. He's better in space - via slants to the outside, pitch outs, end sweeps, reverses, play action and screens.

If we pound him up the middle he will eventually get hurt -and shorten his career.

Popps
12-06-2009, 10:12 PM
I think when you need tough yards up the middle you run Hillis.

Moreno is a slasher -- not a pounder. He's better in space - via slants to the outside, pitch outs, end sweeps, reverses, play action and screens.

If we pound him up the middle he will eventually get hurt -and shorten his career.

I think Moreno is a much more physical runner than he's given credit for around here. Every game, he proves it on the field and the commentators won't shut up about how he doesn't go down on first contact. He's a hard runner.

That said, I think we'd all like to see Hillis pounding the rock right at people.

Hopefully he'll build the trust among the staff to earn the reps to do so.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 10:13 PM
Hillis is bigger and more physical, but he clearly has problems and he didn't do anything that Buckhalter and Moreno didn't do all game with less fresh legs. And before you keep praising Shanahan like he had better coaching or personnel acumen than McD, remember that Hillis was buried on Shanahan's depth chart and inactive early last year and only got to start after every other running back got hurt.

And let me go on record right now and say that Larsen is a better blocker than Hillis and he keeps getting better. I think Hillis has physical ability in the stratosphere with his hands and power, but he's not very fast, isn't good on special teams, and most importantly has head full of sand. If you don't know the game plan it's hard to let the coach trust you week to week. Shoot, Hillis doesn't even seem to know the snap count half the time.

Moreno and Buckhalter (when healthy) have yet to prove they can pick up the tough yardage against tough defenses consistenly. When they both falter in this area over the next 4 games or playoffs....Hillis should get the call.

How fast do you need to be to pick up the tough short yardage aganinst stout Defenses?

Also, in the red zone Hillis has just enough speed and power to get into the end zone.

I don't think Moreno nor Buckhalter would be very good on special teams either.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 10:15 PM
I think Moreno is a much more physical runner than he's given credit for around here. Every game, he proves it on the field and the commentators won't shut up about how he doesn't go down on first contact. He's a hard runner.

That said, I think we'd all like to see Hillis pounding the rock right at people.

Hopefully he'll build the trust among the staff to earn the reps to do so.

Hopefully the staff will realize the talent Hillis brings to the table and allow him to contribute. The staff trusted Moreno despite his 4 fumbles and the staff trust Buckhalter and his gimpy knee. So the staff just needs to be consistent.

Kaylore
12-06-2009, 11:25 PM
Moreno and Buckhalter (when healthy) have yet to prove they can pick up the tough yardage against tough defenses consistenly. When they both falter in this area over the next 4 games or playoffs....Hillis should get the call.

How fast do you need to be to pick up the tough short yardage aganinst stout Defenses?

Also, in the red zone Hillis has just enough speed and power to get into the end zone.

I don't think Moreno nor Buckhalter would be very good on special teams either.
I don't disagree that in short yardage Hillis would be better than Moreno and Buckhalter. However when you have ST talent like Larsen and Larsen is a better blocker at Fb than Hillis, that leaves Hillis' limited functionality as big burden. He's not smart enough to start and he's not diverse enough to be a back up when there are better players for ST so that leaves Hillis in limbo...and as a bench player.

BroncoDoug
12-06-2009, 11:30 PM
Ok all you Hillis haters. We got your names now. I don't want to hear **** from any of you when he gets his chance to blow up.

yeah I'm far from hating Hillis, he is my adopt a Bronco, if we had Avy's back you would see my Hillis Avatar, and I spent $350 on an authentic Hillis jersey and had him sign it. I just think right now Knowshon and Buck deserve more touches.

cutthemdown
12-06-2009, 11:32 PM
Bucky and Moreno obviously deserve to play. They are more in the RB mold then Hillis. I still think Hillis could find a nice role in the offense but it may take an injury to one of the back in front of him.

Obviously everyone can agree that:

1-Bucky a proven vet who is playing well. He needs those 10-15 touches a game

2-Moreno could develop into a great runner. He's shown enought to warrant developing him and giving him 15-20 carries a game.

3- That just leaves Hillis odd man out. It's not that the fans don't like him, or that Mcdaniels doesn't like him. It's just that it worked out that way for him this yr so far.

It's only his 2nd yr so its not like hes wasting away in Denver. He's getting coached by a great position coach and biding his time like a ton of players have to do.

This just another Orangemane mystery where the board gets obsessed with one particular player and over analyzes him and every move team does with him.

cutthemdown
12-06-2009, 11:38 PM
yeah I'm far from hating Hillis, he is my adopt a Bronco, if we had Avy's back you would see my Hillis Avatar, and I spent $350 on an authentic Hillis jersey and had him sign it. I just think right now Knowshon and Buck deserve more touches.

This is a great post. Honestly I love every play who dons the uniform. I am blinded by Orange. If Hillis needed a kidney and I was a match I would probably let them slice it out of me at halftime of the Raider game.

It's just Bucky is incredibly productive on very few carries. He's used to only getting a few touches from his days in Philly. He is ready to roll on first touch and makes the most out of each one. Not many rbs can be consistent like him on that few carries.

Moreno a 1st round pick, has more wiggle then Hillis, and more upside to be a traditional every down back. He's really coming on last few games showing why Broncos have been playing him.

Hillis and Jordan come after that and will have to find rolls as bkups, change of pace bruisers, run out the clock non fumblers. Hillis needs to keep playing hard on special teams we need that.

Hillis may still be in Mcdaniels head. For all you know he plans on unleashing a totally different type running attack on the Colts. He knows them well and probably hates them plenty.

Personally I love Hillis. Every team should have to have at least one white boy rb for us honkies to relate to.

Bucky and Moreno are better options though IMO.

Bronco Yoda
12-06-2009, 11:40 PM
yeah I'm far from hating Hillis, he is my adopt a Bronco, if we had Avy's back you would see my Hillis Avatar, and I spent $350 on an authentic Hillis jersey and had him sign it. I just think right now Knowshon and Buck deserve more touches.

You either back him or you don't.

ZONA
12-07-2009, 12:16 AM
Things are fine they way they are but it would be nice to see Hillis get at least 5 good carries through the game and be used as FB more often. He's got much better hands and speed then Larsen does. It makes no sense not to use him at least sometimes at FB, period.

cutthemdown
12-07-2009, 12:40 AM
Things are fine they way they are but it would be nice to see Hillis get at least 5 good carries through the game and be used as FB more often. He's got much better hands and speed then Larsen does. It makes no sense not to use him at least sometimes at FB, period.

Larsen just knows how to make contact and how linebackers think. He's a great lead blocker when healthy. He gets into the hole and gets a hat on someone. When you do that consistently coaches just feel really comfortable playing the player in that role.

Not sure Hillis is as good as Larsen at getting into the hole and making a block, or at reading the flow of linebackers. I would say its a given Larsen understands a defenses gap assingments better then Hillis.

BroncoDoug
12-07-2009, 12:57 AM
You either back him or you don't.

interesting theory

errand
12-07-2009, 04:49 AM
Hillis is better than Moreno and Buck.

Boy, that didn't take long, did it?

Broncoman13
12-07-2009, 05:05 AM
Well, it's hard to argue that Hillis should be getting carries over Knowshon or Buck. I think he should be that 4th Quarter end the game guy though, just like yesterday. I also think he's proved that he should be the short yardage guy... but I think we have a few different backs on this team that can do well in that situation.

What I've not heard much about is Spencer Larsen's lead blocking. He's been doing a very good job while in there. Knowshon's 2nd TD was cleared down field by "Four-Six", the boy needs his due.

Broncoman13
12-07-2009, 05:08 AM
This is a great post. Honestly I love every play who dons the uniform. I am blinded by Orange. If Hillis needed a kidney and I was a match I would probably let them slice it out of me at halftime of the Raider game.

It's just Bucky is incredibly productive on very few carries. He's used to only getting a few touches from his days in Philly. He is ready to roll on first touch and makes the most out of each one. Not many rbs can be consistent like him on that few carries.

Moreno a 1st round pick, has more wiggle then Hillis, and more upside to be a traditional every down back. He's really coming on last few games showing why Broncos have been playing him.

Hillis and Jordan come after that and will have to find rolls as bkups, change of pace bruisers, run out the clock non fumblers. Hillis needs to keep playing hard on special teams we need that.

Hillis may still be in Mcdaniels head. For all you know he plans on unleashing a totally different type running attack on the Colts. He knows them well and probably hates them plenty.

Personally I love Hillis. Every team should have to have at least one white boy rb for us honkies to relate to.

Bucky and Moreno are better options though IMO.

That's pretty funny... good post otherwise as well. Pretty much how I feel. Even think they have plans for Hillis to be more involved at some point this season, though I don't think it will be running the ball.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-07-2009, 05:13 AM
Wow. Popp's second thread on Hillis on the front page. This must really get to him.

I think Hillis is being under-utilized. His performance today pretty well showed that. The more touches the guy gets, the more obvious it will get. I wonder why Josh can't manage to get such a valuable threat on the field, especially towards the end of games. We could have been doing this all year.

Guh. I agree with TJ.

/takes shower

That's better. Hillis can ball, man, and it's past time to give him some more carries. I'd also love to see him on goal line and short yardage situations, and he'd make a great h-back, coming out of the FB position to catch short passes.

I'm not militant about it, but I think he could use more reps, and I think we'd be a more dynamic team if he was on the field.

cutthemdown
12-07-2009, 05:25 AM
That's pretty funny... good post otherwise as well. Pretty much how I feel. Even think they have plans for Hillis to be more involved at some point this season, though I don't think it will be running the ball.

Every bkup knows they are an injury away from being the man. Hillis is getting ready to find a role right as season hits the most important time.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Broncos find more for him to do if he runs in practice like he looked end of the game Sunday.

Rock Chalk
12-07-2009, 05:45 AM
Man Jesus Christ I have never wanted Denver to cut a guy as bad as I want them to cut Hillis.

Let me explain this to you people: As well as Hillis played last year as the 345th option, if Shanahan were here and we had Buck and Knowshon, Hillis would not be on the field. We have McD, with Buck and Knowshon, and guess what, Hillis is not on the field.

He can play Lamont Jordan's role for all I care but he is NOT A FEATURE BACK. Never will be.

The love this guy gets and the amount of hate because he doesnt get any playing time is unreal. HE WAS THE 7th OPTION last year and breaking down the numbers, was about the SEVENTH BEST BACK last year. He's good on short yardage, I agree, I dont dispute it, maybe we could use him some there, but IN HIS CHANCES THIS YEAR IN SHORT YARDAGE HE COMPLETELY **** HIS OWN PANTS.

He has no one to blame but himself.

Get the **** over it.

baja
12-07-2009, 07:04 AM
Bucky and Moreno obviously deserve to play. They are more in the RB mold then Hillis. I still think Hillis could find a nice role in the offense but it may take an injury to one of the back in front of him.

Obviously everyone can agree that:

1-Bucky a proven vet who is playing well. He needs those 10-15 touches a game

2-Moreno could develop into a great runner. He's shown enought to warrant developing him and giving him 15-20 carries a game.

3- That just leaves Hillis odd man out. It's not that the fans don't like him, or that Mcdaniels doesn't like him. It's just that it worked out that way for him this yr so far.

It's only his 2nd yr so its not like hes wasting away in Denver. He's getting coached by a great position coach and biding his time like a ton of players have to do.

This just another Orangemane mystery where the board gets obsessed with one particular player and over analyzes him and every move team does with him.

Excellent post Cut, completely true and very well said.

Rep...

baja
12-07-2009, 07:08 AM
You either back him or you don't.

This is a disappointing post for you Yoda.

Clearly he does 'back' Hillis he spent 135 bucks on his jersey for crying out loud.

baja
12-07-2009, 07:17 AM
Man Jesus Christ I have never wanted Denver to cut a guy as bad as I want them to cut Hillis.

Let me explain this to you people: As well as Hillis played last year as the 345th option, if Shanahan were here and we had Buck and Knowshon, Hillis would not be on the field. We have McD, with Buck and Knowshon, and guess what, Hillis is not on the field.

He can play Lamont Jordan's role for all I care but he is NOT A FEATURE BACK. Never will be.

The love this guy gets and the amount of hate because he doesnt get any playing time is unreal. HE WAS THE 7th OPTION last year and breaking down the numbers, was about the SEVENTH BEST BACK last year. He's good on short yardage, I agree, I dont dispute it, maybe we could use him some there, but IN HIS CHANCES THIS YEAR IN SHORT YARDAGE HE COMPLETELY **** HIS OWN PANTS.

He has no one to blame but himself.

Get the **** over it.

Don't be an reactionary idiot, he is in year 2 who knows what he will be like when they finish coaching him up.

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 07:19 AM
Point is, Moreno and Hillis will not face a KC type defense over the next 4 games

Oh really?!?

You might want to take a glance at the Broncos schedule there, Einstein.

sixtimeseight
12-07-2009, 07:23 AM
hahahahaha what a ****ing moron.

BroncoInferno
12-07-2009, 07:25 AM
You either back him or you don't.

I see. So, we have to support Peyton Hillis at the expense of the entire team? We can't be skeptical and expect him to earn more touches? Nice try, but if Hillis gets his season turned around and starts contributing other than in garbage time against a gassed defense, everyone will be thrilled whether we choose not to swing from his nuts now or not.

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 07:26 AM
Moreno and Buckhalter (when healthy) have yet to prove they can pick up the tough yardage against tough defenses consistenly. When they both falter in this area over the next 4 games or playoffs....Hillis should get the call.

How fast do you need to be to pick up the tough short yardage aganinst stout Defenses?

Ummmmm, why don't you think about this for a second.

By definition, a defense is not a "tough defense" if ANYONE picks up tough yardage against them consistently. That includes your boyfriend Hillis. Why should Moreno and Buckhalter be held to higher standards than any other RB in the league?

BroncoInferno
12-07-2009, 07:33 AM
Look, Hillis nuthuggers: All we are saying is that there is probably a very good reason Peyton has not been getting many touches to this point. I mean, it isn't like Shanny was all aboard the Hillis bandwagon last season either. It tooked an ungodly rash of injuries that left Peyton as literally the last option before Shanny turned to him. There was probably a good reason why that was the case, just as there is likely a good reason McDaniels has not given him more opportunities to date. Hillis gaining 47 yards against a gassed defense that had packed it in doesn't prove anything. That said, it was the opportunity he was given and he took advantage of it. Maybe as a result of that McDaniels will feel more confident in giving him opportunities going forward. And if that happens and he plays well, there is not any Bronco fan out there who won't be thrilled to see it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-07-2009, 07:34 AM
I don't understand why there's not a third option.

Something like "Hillis showed yesterday that he can pick up some tough yards. Perhaps he should get more touches. However, McDaniels obviously knows what he's doing so when it's his time, it's his time. I highly doubt that I know more about football than the head coach of the Broncos."

gtown
12-07-2009, 07:37 AM
Hillis is the last guy I want running downhill at me late in a game. I really think the guy should be on the field more, especially given his work last year. We lost Hillis on that crappy pass from Cutler and our late season swoon started. Coincidence? I think not.

But its obvious Hillis doesn't get the McD offense and hasn't shown to be a great pass blocker, yet. Once he figures this out though, I think he will be a fixture here.

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 07:47 AM
We lost Hillis on that crappy pass from Cutler and our late season swoon started. Coincidence? I think not.

You do realize that Hillis started and finished the game they lost at home against Oakland, don't you?

Popps
12-07-2009, 07:59 AM
I don't understand why there's not a third option.

Something like "Hillis showed yesterday that he can pick up some tough yards. Perhaps he should get more touches. However, McDaniels obviously knows what he's doing so when it's his time, it's his time. I highly doubt that I know more about football than the head coach of the Broncos."

That's inherent in option #1. If you believe the staff starts and give the reps to those who earn them, #1 covers that point of view. It's just a softer way of stating it.

gtown
12-07-2009, 08:15 AM
You do realize that Hillis started and finished the game they lost at home against Oakland, don't you?

I realize that, but Hillis played well in that game (scored our only TD) and played really well in weeks 11-14 last year before getting injured. He got injured right before the panthers game which coincided with our swoon with three losses to the Panthers, Bills, and Chargers.

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 08:18 AM
I realize that, but Hillis played well in that game (scored our only TD) and played really well in weeks 11-14 last year before getting injured. He got injured right before the panthers game which coincided with our swoon with three losses to the Panthers, Bills, and Chargers.

The Panthers and Chargers were simply much better teams than the Broncos last season. There's nothing Hillis could have done to change that. The Bills game? Who knows for sure. All I do know is the Bills were a better team than Oakland and we lost to them at home with Hillis.

strafen
12-07-2009, 08:36 AM
C'mon, dude. You know the answer to that.This poll is wirthless.
The oprions are tailored to force people to prove your point.
You can't accept that Hillis is the better back than Moreno is any day.
You come up with this stupid poll to continue bashing Hillis.
About posting up a poll about Moreno being ..
A- a bust
B- an average back
C- will he get to 8 fumbles this season

ant1999e
12-07-2009, 08:45 AM
This poll is wirthless.
The oprions are tailored to force people to prove your point.
You can't accept that Hillis is the better back than Moreno is any day.
You come up with this stupid poll to continue bashing Hillis.
About posting up a poll about Moreno being ..
A- a bust
B- an average back
C- will he get to 8 fumbles this season

Spell much? Or is that the way you talk with Hillis in your mouth?

gtown
12-07-2009, 08:52 AM
The Panthers and Chargers were simply much better teams than the Broncos last season. There's nothing Hillis could have done to change that. The Bills game? Who knows for sure. All I do know is the Bills were a better team than Oakland and we lost to them at home with Hillis.

Hillis was our only offense for that Raiders game. Averaged more than 4ypc and scored our only TD in that game.

We probably would have lost to the Panthers and Chargers anyway, but a more dominant running game would have kept the score differential closer. I think if we had Hillis for that Bills game we would have won. They came back in the second half and a downhill more punishing back like Hillis might have kept the ball out of their hands a little more.

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 09:04 AM
Hillis was our only offense for that Raiders game. Averaged more than 4ypc and scored our only TD in that game.

We probably would have lost to the Panthers and Chargers anyway, but a more dominant running game would have kept the score differential closer. I think if we had Hillis for that Bills game we would have won. They came back in the second half and a downhill more punishing back like Hillis might have kept the ball out of their hands a little more.

Look, all I'm doing is responding to your original statement that:

We lost Hillis on that crappy pass from Cutler and our late season swoon started. Coincidence? I think not.

So now at least you see......by your own admission, even WITH Hillis, they would've lost all but one of the games they lost anyway. And that one potential win is even up for debate.

strafen
12-07-2009, 09:17 AM
Spell much? Or is that the way you talk with Hillis in your mouth?

Coming from somebody from Nebraska, I won't waste my time arguing with you about academics and spelling.
Nuff said...

strafen
12-07-2009, 09:20 AM
Hillis was our only offense for that Raiders game. Averaged more than 4ypc and scored our only TD in that game.

We probably would have lost to the Panthers and Chargers anyway, but a more dominant running game would have kept the score differential closer. I think if we had Hillis for that Bills game we would have won. They came back in the second half and a downhill more punishing back like Hillis might have kept the ball out of their hands a little more.That makes too much sense for those people to understand. It has no foul language and it's well-said.
It's too much for them to understand...
At the same time, don't get down to their level either. They will eventually show up some kind of intelligence

HAT
12-07-2009, 09:20 AM
Hillis is the better back than Moreno is any day.


ROFL!

Can we get sigs back?

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 09:21 AM
They will eventually show up some kind of intelligence

Words cannot do this sentence justice.

strafen
12-07-2009, 09:24 AM
I don't understand why there's not a third option.

Something like "Hillis showed yesterday that he can pick up some tough yards. Perhaps he should get more touches. However, McDaniels obviously knows what he's doing so when it's his time, it's his time. I highly doubt that I know more about football than the head coach of the Broncos."Or, the fact that Hillis not expecting to play yesterday, showed that he was ready, that he knows his assignments and play book, and that he can still run the ball with authority like nobody else in our roster.
7 carries for 47 yards. :thumbsup:

Kaylore
12-07-2009, 09:27 AM
You can't accept that Hillis is the better back than Moreno is any day.


:spit:

Kaylore
12-07-2009, 09:27 AM
Words cannot do this sentence justice.

Hilarious!This thread is killing me.

strafen
12-07-2009, 09:29 AM
ROFL!

Can we get sigs back?He's not?
What have you seen so far that refutes what I said.
Enlightment there, or is it wishful thinking that Moreno would be a good back in the NFL.
So far he's been closer to a bust than the real deal, has he not?
Oh, don't bother to look at numbers to verify that info.
Correll Buckhalter has had 2 100-yard games while carrying the ball 12 and 14 times. Moreno has had ZERO 100-yard games no matter how many times he touches the ball...

strafen
12-07-2009, 09:30 AM
:spit:Then explain it.
Don't act like a child.
Explain in words why I'm wrong.
I can take it. I just want you, or anybody here with intelligence to prove me wrong.
I'm waiting...

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 09:31 AM
So far he's been closer to a bust than the real deal, has he not?

I know lot's of busts that win 3 offensive ROY awards in the first 12 weeks of the season. Or lead all rookies at their position by a HUGE margin. Sure. Whatever.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-07-2009, 09:46 AM
Or, the fact that Hillis not expecting to play yesterday, showed that he was ready, that he knows his assignments and play book, and that he can still run the ball with authority like nobody else in our roster.
7 carries for 47 yards. :thumbsup:

Against a terrible defense. Yeah, it's great, but the Chiefs had long since given up on that game.

Hillis has talent, and I'd love to see him more. But I don't think we're really "missing" anything by not having him on the field every time.

I'd love to see him get 5-10 carries. /shrug

vancejohnson82
12-07-2009, 09:50 AM
does Peyton Hillis run this site??

ive never seen so much hullaboo about a 4th string running back before

baja
12-07-2009, 11:09 AM
does Peyton Hillis run this site??

ive never seen so much hullaboo about a 4th string running back before

3rd string - he's moving up!!

Bob
12-07-2009, 11:35 AM
Do you have confidence in our RBs in short yardage situations.

I believe our team will be better if Hillis touches the ball more often.

Doesnt mean he is better, only that he is different and brings some different things -- although I would liked to have seen him get more touches, and utilized a bit better (and more) on short-down -- at the bginning of the season -- if Hillis was not able to pick things up fast enough earlier this season with the change, then the coach moved on, and so should we --- McDaniels saw too many mistakes on the field (and who knows how many in practice.) I suspect he knows a tad more than me -- and if Hillis has the heart and brain -- he will catch on with another team, and I wish him the best.

I felt bad for the guy, and like many here wondered "if only" he had not got hurt last year, and how different things might have gone for him, and perhaps the team. However, I think I am finally over many of the what if's of last year McDaniels has done much, much better than I thought he would do.

Bob
12-07-2009, 11:40 AM
He's not?
What have you seen so far that refutes what I said.
Enlightment there, or is it wishful thinking that Moreno would be a good back in the NFL.
So far he's been closer to a bust than the real deal, has he not?
Oh, don't bother to look at numbers to verify that info.
Correll Buckhalter has had 2 100-yard games while carrying the ball 12 and 14 times. Moreno has had ZERO 100-yard games no matter how many times he touches the ball...

What is Moreno's yard per carry? Dont get me worng, I dont think he is the second coming of TD, but he does have some nifty moves, and has more yards that any other rookie -- evn TD only got just above 1000 in his rookie year -- next year he will get a tad stronger. Even, with that growth we will need to use Hillis next year as a power back, or get a new one...

Archer81
12-07-2009, 11:49 AM
Or, the fact that Hillis not expecting to play yesterday, showed that he was ready, that he knows his assignments and play book, and that he can still run the ball with authority like nobody else in our roster.
7 carries for 47 yards. :thumbsup:


Hillis ran the ball 7 straight times from the I-formation...how ****ing difficult is it to get the handoff and run straight ahead? Did he have a single carry when the game mattered? Was he even in the game on offense for 55 minutes of play before McDaniels put him in for garbage time?

The short answer is no. I thought with the difficulties you have in realizing Peyton Hillis is not this mythic monster you think he is, giving you the answer may give your overtaxed cognitive abilities a break.


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 11:54 AM
In their 2 games against Indy this year, Tennessee's RBs have done the following:

Chris Johnson: 4.2 yds per carry, 3.8 yds per carry
Lendale White: 6.5 yds per carry, 5.1 yds per carry

Clearly, Lendale White should be starting and getting the majority of carries according to dragster.

ant1999e
12-07-2009, 11:57 AM
Do you have confidence in our RBs in short yardage situations.

I believe our team will be better if Hillis touches the ball more often.

I believe our team will be better if Dragqueen69 touched Hillis more often. Talk about a man crush.

Archer81
12-07-2009, 11:59 AM
I believe our team will be better if Dragqueen69 touched Hillis more often. Talk about a man crush.


More like obsession. Dude loves Hillis more than a fat kid loves cake.


:Broncos:

strafen
12-07-2009, 12:31 PM
In their 2 games against Indy this year, Tennessee's RBs have done the following:

Chris Johnson: 4.2 yds per carry, 3.8 yds per carry
Lendale White: 6.5 yds per carry, 5.1 yds per carry

Clearly, Lendale White should be starting and getting the majority of carries according to dragster.
We're talking for the season, NOT two games you want to cherry pick to make your point stick.
Whether Lendale has better average against Indy than Johnson, Johnson who is on pace to break the 2000 yard mark got to be the guy.

Buckhalter has two 100-yard game in which he carried the ball for less than 15 times against two different teams.
Moreno has had plenty chances to break 100-yard game, but he's stumbled way too much so far.
Why is Moreno getting all the touches?

strafen
12-07-2009, 12:32 PM
I believe our team will be better if Dragqueen69 touched Hillis more often. Talk about a man crush.That's all you have to say to contribute to the debate here?
Gotta be smarter than that to be taken serious, bud.

strafen
12-07-2009, 12:34 PM
More like obsession. Dude loves Hillis more than a fat kid loves cake.


:Broncos:It's not about loving Hillis. It's about not having a guy who is an explosive player and a playmaker on the filed in favor of the coach's pet.

Who in the right mind would want Hillis on the bench?
Seriously.

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 12:37 PM
We're talking for the season, NOT two games you want to cherry pick to make your point stick.

Ah, so the "two game" threshold is enough for you to supposedly prove your point, but for me to prove my point, I have to go to a full season. Got it.

strafen
12-07-2009, 12:37 PM
Hillis ran the ball 7 straight times from the I-formation...how ****ing difficult is it to get the handoff and run straight ahead? Did he have a single carry when the game mattered? Was he even in the game on offense for 55 minutes of play before McDaniels put him in for garbage time?

The short answer is no. I thought with the difficulties you have in realizing Peyton Hillis is not this mythic monster you think he is, giving you the answer may give your overtaxed cognitive abilities a break.


:Broncos:

So, if it's not difficult to run the ball straight ahead from the I formation, why don't we do it more often?
How is that a bad thing for our team chances to jump start our pathetic offense?
I take that than the cerebral formations that Moreno is having a hard time to master any day.
If that means more chances for us to win the game, then, why not?

ant1999e
12-07-2009, 12:39 PM
That's all you have to say to contribute to the debate here?
Gotta be smarter than that to be taken serious, bud.

Was this a serious debate? I thought your man love of Hillis was sarcasm.

Popps
12-07-2009, 12:39 PM
It's not about loving Hillis. It's about not having a guy who is an explosive player and a playmaker on the filed in favor of the coach's pet.


You've flapped your gums for two weeks on this ****, but you've yet to provide a single shred of proof that he's being benched because of a conspiracy.

When you can provide that proof, the rest of the logical world will be on board with the conspiracy theory.

Until then, he's not getting reps because other players are taking them from him. When he improves, he'll get reps.

You can yap all you want, but it won't change.

Or, you can provide us the evidence that he's being benched for non-football reasons.

I won't hold my breath.

strafen
12-07-2009, 12:40 PM
Ah, so the "two game" threshold is enough for you to supposedly prove your point, but for me to prove my point, I have to go to a full season. Got it.That's what we're debating. That's what I called you out on.
The fact that Buck has 2 more 100-yard games than Moreno has had all season with a whole lot more carries.
What did you prove by bringing two players from a different team?
We're talking broncos players, here, not discussing Indy and Tennessee

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-07-2009, 12:42 PM
Just so I'm clear on this, Dragster: Your argument is that Hillis is a better running back than Moreno, and it is your contention that he remains on the bench in favor of Moreno because... why, exactly?

broncocalijohn
12-07-2009, 12:42 PM
I don't understand why there's not a third option.

Something like "Hillis showed yesterday that he can pick up some tough yards. Perhaps he should get more touches. However, McDaniels obviously knows what he's doing so when it's his time, it's his time. I highly doubt that I know more about football than the head coach of the Broncos."

because that would be the obvious choice for 99% of the pro McDaniels votes except Rock Chalk who dislikes him. It would be tainted like Taco John's, "Will Orton make the Pro Bowl?" poll/thread. I think that one had one vote for "Yes" last time I saw it.

strafen
12-07-2009, 12:45 PM
You've flapped your gums for two weeks on this ****, but you've yet to provide a single shred of proof that he's being benched because of a conspiracy.

When you can provide that proof, the rest of the logical world will be on board with the conspiracy theory.

Until then, he's not getting reps because other players are taking them from him. When he improves, he'll get reps.

You can yap all you want, but it won't change.

Or, you can provide us the evidence that he's being benched for non-football reasons.

I won't hold my breath.Here we go again with your conspiracy.
Let's assume it is a conspiracy, I could say that Hillis is been in McDaniels doghouse for having had a fumble earlier in the season, which McDaniels used as a cope out to stick with Moreno because the stakes were too high for him not to justify getting a RB when we should've gone defense with the 12th pick.
That would still be more credible and can be argued more than your ridiculous Hillis is a retard rumors.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-07-2009, 12:47 PM
Here we go again with your conspiracy.
Let's assume it is a conspiracy, I could say that Hillis is been in McDaniels doghouse for having had a fumble earlier in the season, which McDaniels used as a cope out to stick with Moreno because the stakes were too high for him not to justify getting a RB when we should've gone defense with the 12th pick.
That would still be more credible and can be argued more than your ridiculous Hillis is a retard rumors.

So your entire argument is born out of wishing we'd drafted defense instead of Moreno in the draft? Really? That's where it started?

strafen
12-07-2009, 12:47 PM
Just so I'm clear on this, Dragster: Your argument is that Hillis is a better running back than Moreno, and it is your contention that he remains on the bench in favor of Moreno because... why, exactly?

Read post # 141

Archer81
12-07-2009, 12:48 PM
It's not about loving Hillis. It's about not having a guy who is an explosive player and a playmaker on the filed in favor of the coach's pet.

Who in the right mind would want Hillis on the bench?
Seriously.


Apparently Shanahan and McDaniels. Or do you forget through 11 weeks of the last two seasons Hillis had less then 20 carries and less then 100 yards rushing? It took 6 RB's to go on IR before Hillis was considered to start last year. Thats not sitting a playmaker...thats a blatant statement that a wildly talented player is not getting it in the classroom, and therefore NOT ready to play week in and out.

But keep thinking its McDaniels being stubborn...


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 12:48 PM
That's what we're debating. That's what I called you out on.
The fact that Buck has 2 more 100-yard games than Moreno has had all season with a whole lot more carries.
What did you prove by bringing two players from a different team?
We're talking broncos players, here, not discussing Indy and Tennessee

OK. Let's do this.

2009 season, # of games with at least 62.5 yds rushed (1,000 yd pace for season)

Moreno: 8 games
Buck: 3 games

See, I can make random stats say what I want them to say too. No context. No nothing. Just hard data.

vancejohnson82
12-07-2009, 12:49 PM
Here we go again with your conspiracy.
Let's assume it is a conspiracy, I could say that Hillis is been in McDaniels doghouse for having had a fumble earlier in the season, which McDaniels used as a cope out to stick with Moreno because the stakes were too high for him not to justify getting a RB when we should've gone defense with the 12th pick.
That would still be more credible and can be argued more than your ridiculous Hillis is a retard rumors.

so...even though Moreno, by your own admission, is running better as the season progresses....AND the team is in the midst of a playoff run....AND we put up our highest point total yesterday.

we should change our tailback rotation and put in Hillis...

i dont think Hillis is retarded....but if you make this argument in public, I would sport a helmet so people know what to expect from you

strafen
12-07-2009, 12:51 PM
So your entire argument is born out of wishing we'd drafted defense instead of Moreno in the draft? Really? That's where it started?

That's not what I said.
We should've gone defense. Yes, but we didn't, and Moreno is who we've got, and Moreno is going to play because we picked him high.
So far, he has not played like a 1st round pick.

We (Broncos fans) should by now know what an impact running back looks like.
Over the last decade we've gotten a number of backs in late rounds that have had a bigger impact in their first year than Moreno has had. Am I correct?
That's what I'm saying...

broncocalijohn
12-07-2009, 12:52 PM
Man Jesus Christ I have never wanted Denver to cut a guy as bad as I want them to cut Hillis.

Let me explain this to you people: As well as Hillis played last year as the 345th option, if Shanahan were here and we had Buck and Knowshon, Hillis would not be on the field. We have McD, with Buck and Knowshon, and guess what, Hillis is not on the field.

He can play Lamont Jordan's role for all I care but he is NOT A FEATURE BACK. Never will be.

The love this guy gets and the amount of hate because he doesnt get any playing time is unreal. HE WAS THE 7th OPTION last year and breaking down the numbers, was about the SEVENTH BEST BACK last year. He's good on short yardage, I agree, I dont dispute it, maybe we could use him some there, but IN HIS CHANCES THIS YEAR IN SHORT YARDAGE HE COMPLETELY **** HIS OWN PANTS.

He has no one to blame but himself.

Get the **** over it.

You wanted the guy cut? There is a reason he was the only holdover from last season to be on the roster this 2009 season. His stats are not comparable to anyone else. Bell had a better average but Hillis' receiving yards and average were way better than anyone on there. His ability to get yards after the catch is what makes him a good candidate for at least short yardage situations. Here are his stats and please explain Mr. Over the Top Drama Poster why he doesnt warrant being on this team?

Best to see by using this link.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2008.htm

5 Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G YScm RRTD Fmb
21 Tatum Bell 27 7 3 44 249 2 37 5.7 35.6 6.3 10 57 5.7 0 12 1.4 8.1 306 2 0
6 Jay Cutler* 25 QB 16 16 57 200 2 18 3.5 12.5 3.6 200 2 5
89 Daniel Graham 30 TE 16 16 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 32 389 12.2 4 28 2.0 24.3 389 4 0
23 Andre Hall 26 8 0 35 144 0 16 4.1 18.0 4.4 3 25 8.3 0 11 0.4 3.1 169 0 2
22 Peyton Hillis 22 RB 12 6 68 343 5 19 5.0 28.6 5.7 14 179 12.8 1 47 1.2 14.9 522 6 0
16 Chad Jackson 23 4 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 1 19 19.0 0 19 0.3 4.8 19 0 1
82 Darrell Jackson 30 12 2 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 12 190 15.8 1 48 1.0 15.8 190 1 0
81 Nate Jackson 29 10 3 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 11 84 7.6 1 19 1.1 8.4 84 1 0
42 Ryan Torain 22 2 1 15 69 1 19 4.6 34.5 7.5 69 1 0
35 Selvin Young 25 rb 8 5 61 303 1 49 5.0 37.9 7.6 3 16 5.3 0 8 0.4 2.0 319 1 1

These never come out good. Use the link.

Beantown Bronco
12-07-2009, 12:55 PM
So far, he has not played like a 1st round pick.


He's outperforming every other rookie RB in the league by a wide margin. How is that "not playing like a 1st rounder"?

We've gotten over the last decade a number of backs in late rounds that have had a bigger impact in their first year than Moreno has had. Am I correct?
That's what I'm saying...

Even if I was to concede that "point" (which I don't) one has to wonder......are you saying the exception is now the rule somehow?

Because Tom Brady was picked in the 6th round, now every QB that was drafted before the 6th round is a bust unless they win 3 SBs in their first 4 years starting?

strafen
12-07-2009, 12:59 PM
so...even though Moreno, by your own admission, is running better as the season progresses....AND the team is in the midst of a playoff run....AND we put up our highest point total yesterday.

we should change our tailback rotation and put in Hillis...

i dont think Hillis is retarded....but if you make this argument in public, I would sport a helmet so people know what to expect from youIs the mere fact that Hillis has not figured in any of our game plan all this season.
I concede the fact that he may not be a starter as a RB, but that's not even a reason not to play the guy.
What Buck did yesterday, Hillis can do consistently in more ways than one.
That's a weapon we need to use more frequently, not that he should be the starter.
Can Hillis be a starter?
To me he can. As in being able to do the job. But as for a guy who can do a lot of different stuff on the field and do it well, it makes no sense not to use him at all...

broncocalijohn
12-07-2009, 01:00 PM
arguing with dragster is going to make you dumber by association. Even if you dont agree with his bad takes.

vancejohnson82
12-07-2009, 01:01 PM
Is the mere fact that Hillis has not figured in any of our game plan all this season.
I concede the fact that he may not be a starter as a RB, but that's not even a reason not to play the guy.
What Buck did yesterday, Hillis can do consistently in more ways than one.
That's a weapon we need to use more frequently, not that he should be the starter.
Can Hillis be a starter?
To me he can. As in being able to do the job. But as for a guy who can do a lot of different stuff on the field and do it well, it makes no sense not to use him at all...

ok....now you're making a little bit of sense...would I like to see him on the field a bit more? yes

at the expense of Moreno or Buckhalter....no.....

strafen
12-07-2009, 01:08 PM
He's outperforming every other rookie RB in the league by a wide margin. How is that "not playing like a 1st rounder"?



Even if I was to concede that "point" (which I don't) one has to wonder......are you saying the exception is now the rule somehow?

Because Tom Brady was picked in the 6th round, now every QB that was drafted before the 6th round is a bust unless they win 3 SBs in their first 4 years starting?He could be leading all rookies and win rookie of the year for all I care.
Good for him!
Still, his numbers are only good to win ROY, not to win games.
He's gotta be better than just posting average numbers for a RB rookie or not.
How many games has he gone without scoring a TD?
Sunday he scored 2. That's half of what he's scored all year.
Up until Sunday we were the only team in the NFL with a winning record to have scored less than 200 points.

And you need to understand and comprehend what I meant to say with what I've said about our late round RB's success.
The point was not what you want to make it to be which now involves Tom Brady.
My point is, we should recognize talent at RB. We should be able to tell the real deal from those who are not.

We've had people making an impact at RB in the past who've gotten national media recognizion to the point we were able to draft a few of them. We knew an impact player when we saw one. Moreno is not an impact player...

strafen
12-07-2009, 01:13 PM
arguing with dragster is going to make you dumber by association. Even if you dont agree with his bad takes.Make your point then...
It's easy for me to insult you, but still won't make the argument any better.
Care to elaborate a little bit, there?

Let me simplify this for you.
Since I'm dumb, help me out here, maybe by the time you've explained it to me, I'll be that much smarter...

Here we go...

How is Moreno better than Hillis?
Or In what areas is Moreno better than Hillis?

This is not about one should be the starter or not.
I want you to tell me How is Moreno that much better than Hillis?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-07-2009, 01:13 PM
He could be leading all rookies and win rookie of the year for all I care.
Good for him!
Still, his numbers are only good to win ROY, not to win games.
He's gotta be better than just posting average numbers for a RB rookie or not.
How many games has he gone without scoring a TD?
Sunday he scored 2. That's half of what he's scored all year.
Up until Sunday we were the only team in the NFL with a winning record to have scored less than 200 points.

And you need to understand and comprehend what I meant to say with what I've said about our late round RB's success.
The point was not what you want to make it to be which now involves Tom Brady.
My point is, we should recognize talent at RB. We should be able to tell the real deal from those who are not.

We've had people making an impact at RB in the past who've gotten national media recognizion to the point we were able to draft a few of them. We knew an impact player when we saw one. Moreno is not an impact player...

But we ARE winning games.

And typically, running backs make the most of their second-half of the season chances. Just as Moreno is doing.

I know you're loathe to give him any credit, but come on. Don't you think you're being just a little over-the-top butthurt about him?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-07-2009, 01:18 PM
Make your point then...
It's easy for me to insult you, but still won't make the argument any better.
Care to elaborate a little bit, there?

Let me simplify this for you.
Since I'm dumb, help me out here, maybe by the time you've explained it to me, I'll be that much smarter...

Here we go...

How is Moreno better than Hillis?
Or In what areas is Moreno better than Hillis?

This is not about one should be the starter or not.
I want you to tell me How is Moreno that much better than Hillis?

Shouldn't the burden of proof be on the prosecution? Can you prove that Hillis is better than Moreno?

strafen
12-07-2009, 01:26 PM
Shouldn't the burden of proof be on the prosecution? Can you prove that Hillis is better than Moreno?Yes, and so can you.
Just look at his numbers. Hillis in less games played last year had more TD's than Moreno had all this season.
Hillis not getting any reps in practice, goes in there, and rips 47 yards in 7 carries that now people are referring to as garbage playing time, for a guy who has not played much, and against a team that knew he was going to get the ball, and still was able to drag defenders on his back.
Garbage time or not, not everybody drag 2-3 defenders trying to stop you, and still get positive yards after that.
Hills had a 100-yard game receiving last year. That's another dimension not seen in Moreno.
CBuck has had 2 100-yard this season. Moreno ZERO!
If he was that good, how is it that a guy who has 77 less carries has been able to run for over 100-yard in two games this season?

strafen
12-07-2009, 01:28 PM
But we ARE winning games.

And typically, running backs make the most of their second-half of the season chances. Just as Moreno is doing.

I know you're loathe to give him any credit, but come on. Don't you think you're being just a little over-the-top butthurt about him?Yes, we're winning. We're winning in a lot of different fashions this year.
But our running game is far from dominant to be an aspect of our game that can be relied upon when the chips are down...

ant1999e
12-07-2009, 01:43 PM
Yes, and so can you.
Just look at his numbers. Hillis in less games played last year had more TD's than Moreno had all this season.


Different game plan from Shanahan to McDaniels surely makes a big difference. Shanny liked to run more than McD does. Also, Jay threw alot of red zone interception so i would imagine Shanny ran the ball more in those situations. Hillis probably had more carries since Moreno is splitting with Buck. I was deployed last year and didn't have a chance to watch very many games. Did Hillis split carries with someone?

houghtam
12-07-2009, 01:56 PM
OK. Let's do this.

2009 season, # of games with at least 62.5 yds rushed (1,000 yd pace for season)

Moreno: 8 games
Buck: 3 games

See, I can make random stats say what I want them to say too. No context. No nothing. Just hard data.

Don't forget this one, Beanie...

Hillis: 0 games.

Hilarious!

Popps
12-07-2009, 04:46 PM
Here we go again with your conspiracy.
Let's assume it is a conspiracy, I could say that Hillis is been in McDaniels doghouse for having had a fumble earlier in the season, which McDaniels used as a cope out to stick with Moreno because the stakes were too high for him not to justify getting a RB when we should've gone defense with the 12th pick.
That would still be more credible and can be argued more than your ridiculous Hillis is a retard rumors.

Yea, sorry. That's not proof, Drag-man.

That's just a long version of you saying "I like Peyton Hillis."

Great.

We all like him.


Prove to me that he's being benched for non-football reasons.

Prove to me that McDaniels has purposely benched ANY player to the detriment of his team's success.

You can end this thread very easily by providing any sort of tangible evidence of your conspiracy.

Otherwise, you're just incapable of handling the truth.

It's one or the other. You decide.

Bronco Yoda
12-19-2009, 06:30 PM
I realize that, but Hillis played well in that game (scored our only TD) and played really well in weeks 11-14 last year before getting injured. He got injured righ
t before the panthers game which coincided with our swoon with three losses to the Panthers, Bills, and Chargers.

One has to wonder if Hillis didn't get injured and we make it the Playoffs and go one and done.

Is Shanahan still coaching in Denver this year?

rastaman
12-19-2009, 06:35 PM
One has to wonder if Hillis didn't get injured and we make it the Playoffs and go one and done.

Is Shanahan still coaching in Denver this year?

I'd say yes. Idon't Bowlen would fire a coach that got him into the playoffs. However, then again Bowlen may have still fired Shanny if Shanny was insistent on keeping Slowick.