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View Full Version : Orton should work on this one thing


Broncos4tw
12-06-2009, 04:18 PM
Although I'm not sure he can fix it, he should at least try to focus on one thing in his game. I am accepting his lack of aim, his focusing on one player down the field, he inability to scramble, etc.

The one thing I wish he'd work on is his pocket presence. Even in shotgun, he seems blithely unaware of what's going on to his sides or behind him. Not just today, but every week, he takes sacks where he should have thrown it out of bounds. Today he also received a couple fumbles as a result of this problem.

I wonder if this is why he is put into shotgun more often than not. He needs to pay attention to how long he has the stinking ball. When he loses someone on the edge of his vision, he should know he has X seconds before he has to either pass it, dump it off, or toss it out of bounds.

Mind.. I am not trying to be mr. negativity, I just feel if we really are planning to either go farther into the playoffs than one game, or keep him for more than a single or two years, he has to try to fix some of the problems that are costing the team. Work on this first.. it's getting frustrating to see him go down without being remotely aware of what's going on. If our line is not playing a great game, he folds like a house of cards.

Archer81
12-06-2009, 04:22 PM
Uhh...ok?


:Broncos:

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 05:23 PM
Don't see it. Takes sacks when he should have thrown it away? Today yes.

Other games? No. Unless you count the four games we lost when he didn't even have time to do a three step drop.

Lack of accuracy? 62% completion % is lack of accuracy?

Focusing on a player? You can tell that from watching on the tv?

The Joker
12-06-2009, 05:32 PM
My biggest gripe with Kyle is that he's an absolute sitting duck in the pocket, he doesn't even try and stay alive and buy an extra second or two to get a pass off. When a guy has him on a sack, that's it. He just curls up into a ball and pretty much dies on the field.

I'm not expecting Elway or Big Ben out there, but you just have to be able to buy that little bit of time in the pocket and get the pass away. All the really top QB's can do that, and until I see at least some glimpses of it from Kyle I'll have my questions about him.

Everything else, he's more than good enough at.

fontaine
12-06-2009, 06:27 PM
Orton does have good pocket presence.

I've seen more than enough plays where Orton sees the pressure coming and slides into the pocket.

He just doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. He did hold onto the ball a little too long on certain plays but it's not a habit.

ZONA
12-06-2009, 06:28 PM
Every QB has things they need to work on. Yes he could work on limiting his mistakes but all QB's need to do that as well. That said, I think he played a very sloppy game today. Several balls that were not picked easily could have been. He had the INT in the red zone and of course the fumble after holding the ball for 6 seconds and pumping 2 different times. He's going to need to play better then that if we are going to beat the Colts.

2KBack
12-06-2009, 06:30 PM
better than his worst game of the season? We have such terrible problems

NYBronco
12-06-2009, 06:41 PM
The problem was coming from his blindside today surprisingly and that may have been the issue. Clady has been so dependable in pass protection that I believe Orton has become to comfortable and it got the best of him today. Hali seemed to be all over and around Clady today.

HEAV
12-06-2009, 06:43 PM
Kyle had a bad game. So did Clady blocking Hali...

Wes Mantooth
12-06-2009, 06:44 PM
The problem was coming from his blindside today surprisingly and that may have been the issue. Clady has been so dependable in pass protection that I believe Orton has become to comfortable and it got the best of him today. Hali seemed to be all over and around Clady today.

Agreed. Orton is just fine. Clady was manhandled in the second half a few times.

Bronx33
12-06-2009, 06:51 PM
Agreed. Orton is just fine. Clady was manhandled in the second half a few times.


Orton holding onto the ball to long wasn't an issue?

Broncos4tw
12-06-2009, 09:32 PM
Yea.. that's the biggest issue, really. He just holds onto the ball until the end of time. Honestly.. how often does he throw it out of bounds? Much less than most franchise QBs. Usually NEVER during a game. The only time I've seen him throw it away, is out the back of the endzone.

And no reason to get all defensive, holy crap. I'm sorry I am not heralding him as the second coming or something. If we are stuck with this QB, it would be nice if he could work on his weaknesses. If you think he has none, you are bigger homers than I realized /shrug

Bronco Yoda
12-06-2009, 09:41 PM
The problem was coming from his blindside today surprisingly and that may have been the issue. Clady has been so dependable in pass protection that I believe Orton has become to comfortable and it got the best of him today. Hali seemed to be all over and around Clady today.

^this. Scheff let one get by too.

B-Love
12-06-2009, 09:44 PM
His Bubble Screen throws appeared to be thrown towards Verne Troyer and not Brandon Marshall.

Higher Kyle, ..... Higher!!

Mogulseeker
12-06-2009, 09:47 PM
All the really top QB's can do that

Except Tom Brady

ro_50
12-06-2009, 09:50 PM
I think his ankle injury is still giving him a little bit of a problem.

I've noticed when he drops back and when he slides his feet, it's not as smooth or precise as it was earlier in the season. But I think its cuz of the ankle.

He's a gamer and playing through it.

misturanderson
12-06-2009, 09:51 PM
Yea.. that's the biggest issue, really. He just holds onto the ball until the end of time. Honestly... how often does he throw it out of bounds? Much less than most franchise QBs. Usually NEVER during a game. The only time I've seen him throw it away, is out the back of the endzone.

And no reason to get all defensive, holy crap. I'm sorry I am not heralding him as the second coming or something. If we are stuck with this QB, it would be nice if he could work on his weaknesses. If you think he has none, you are bigger homers than I realized /shrug

Is this some sort of sarcasm that I'm missing?

HAT
12-06-2009, 09:58 PM
Kyle Orton=Winner

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 10:28 PM
Is this some sort of sarcasm that I'm missing?

God I hope so. I'd be at a loss for words otherwise.

rugbythug
12-06-2009, 10:29 PM
Kyle is in trouble if he has to improvise.

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 10:44 PM
Kyle is in trouble if he has to improvise.

Pretty much every QB is in trouble if they have to improvise.

Popps
12-06-2009, 11:01 PM
He's just not an ultra-elusive guy. He's a big dude and a smart passer, but he's obviously no Elway. He's going to take a few sacks, folks. I agree with the sentiment that he's almost TOO comfortable in the pocket. But, he does tend to make good throws when he's got the time.

I think they'll look at the film and work on it for next week. Personally, I'd like to see some plays drawn up where he's getting rid of the ball more quickly. We have them, we just didn't use many today.

The Joker
12-07-2009, 04:23 AM
Except Tom Brady

Brady is absolutely brilliant at what I'm talking about, the guy is so hard to sack even when you get a clear shot at him. Our game against them we had what looked like two unmissable sacks on him, guys coming up the middle with a clear shot. Both times he managed to make the guy miss just long enough to get the pass off.

Remember the Pats game against the Jets? They hit him all day long, pummelled him with the blitz. Yet I don't believe they registered a single sack.

You don't have to complete the pass, just find a way to get it out before you're taken down. Sacks kill drives, especially in our offense. The difference between 3rd & 6 and 3rd & 14 is massive.

barryr
12-07-2009, 06:31 AM
Orton had a 92 passing rating, so I don't think he was all that bad. The turnovers weren't good, but not his fault his o-line had troubles blocking Hali at times.

Miami clinched their win Sunday when Brady as he was about to take a sack, forced a pass that was picked off, so even the greats make mistakes.

TonyR
12-07-2009, 06:57 AM
So did Clady blocking Hali...

Seriously. Hali had 10 tackles, 3 sacks including 1 TFL, and a QB hit.

I couldn't see the game, what technique was Hali using so effectively on Clady? Could anybody tell?

vancejohnson82
12-07-2009, 07:01 AM
Seriously. Hali had 10 tackles, 3 sacks including 1 TFL, and a QB hit.

I couldn't see the game, what technique was Hali using so effectively on Clady? Could anybody tell?

he beat Clady with just pure speed around the edge a few times....Sheff flat out missed him when he got to orton and forced the fumble

Clady just looked slow yesterday....it was strange

sixtimeseight
12-07-2009, 07:35 AM
Wow, it's amazing that some nobody message board poster knows more about playing NFL QB than someone that actually plays NFL QB and a bunch of highly paid coaches that study football pretty much 24/7.

TonyR
12-07-2009, 07:46 AM
...it was strange

Yes, he's held is own with some of the best in the business so this is surprising.

OABB
12-07-2009, 09:27 AM
Hali just played really really well. It's like a light went off in his head. If he continues to play like this, he'll get traded in no time.

BroncoInferno
12-07-2009, 09:29 AM
He held on to the ball too long on the two fumbles, but that isn't something that's been a habit. He's usually pretty good about feeling the rush and getting rid of the ball.

BroncoInferno
12-07-2009, 09:32 AM
Clady didn't have a great game by any means, but I would put the two fumbles on Orton and not Clady. Orton stood around for too long on those plays. Clady gave him 4 or 5 seconds, that's really all you can ask. Fortnuately, holding on the ball too long hasn't really been a huge issue other than today.

Cito Pelon
12-07-2009, 09:43 AM
Seriously. Hali had 10 tackles, 3 sacks including 1 TFL, and a QB hit.

I couldn't see the game, what technique was Hali using so effectively on Clady? Could anybody tell?

Seems like Clady is getting beat inside lately. Could be he's a little nicked up, or was expecting help inside, I don't know.

As for the OP, Orton is a pretty good starting QB. Sure he has his flaws, but he's a pretty good starter. He's had his moments against good teams rallying to score in the 4th Q and OT with long drives. Yah, it would be nice to see him slide around in the pocket to get himself a better throwing lane, make some time.

Hopefully, him being a young guy and coachable, he makes those incremental improvements that elevate him above being a middle of the road starter. He's not horribly slow of foot like Griese, maybe it's just not something he's worked on.

He needs to work on the play-action also. He just waves the ball in the tailback's direction on play-action, and that doesn't cut it. A good play-action game requires the QB to really sell it by sticking the ball right in the back's gut and not looking downfield. Play-action is almost a lost art in today's NFL.

BroncoMan4ever
12-07-2009, 10:03 AM
Orton does have good pocket presence.

I've seen more than enough plays where Orton sees the pressure coming and slides into the pocket.

He just doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. He did hold onto the ball a little too long on certain plays but it's not a habit.

i agree. i know he takes a few sacks and against KC wasn't at his best with the pocket awareness, but usually he has really good pocket presence. he doesn't have the wheels like Elway or Steve Young or anyone like that, but he has the ability to slide and maneuver in the pocket to buy an extra second to get rid of the ball.

bronco militia
12-07-2009, 10:08 AM
LOL...orton sucks

signed,

Ryan Clady

The Joker
12-07-2009, 11:18 AM
Clady hasn't been as good since he cut his hair.

Pony Boy
12-07-2009, 11:48 AM
Problem Solved

HEAV
12-07-2009, 11:55 AM
Seriously. Hali had 10 tackles, 3 sacks including 1 TFL, and a QB hit.

I couldn't see the game, what technique was Hali using so effectively on Clady? Could anybody tell?

It was inside bullrush for the most part. The fumble at the 50 yard line was Orton trying to make a deep throw and Clady got owned inside. Kyle slides out of the way and is looking down field just about to throw, while Clady was holding Hali then let him go and Hali hit Kyle's hand when he was back to pass.

On Orton's intercept in the redzone Clady was beaten inside again and Hali was about to kill Kyle, so Klye panicked and threw it in the middle of the field. It was 2nd down and he should have tossed it out of the endzone (like he normally does)

The fumble near the endzone was both Clady being beaten and Orton holding on too long in an attempt to make a play.


Overall Clady was whipped by Hali in the passing game. He was solid in the run blocking.

bpc
12-07-2009, 12:29 PM
There are a lot of aspects of Orton's game that he needs to work on. 1. Arm Strength 2. Accuracy Downfield 3. Pocket awareness.

If he can get better in those aspects, he could be a good NFL QB. Right now he's only an average QB who is bolstered by a great defense pitching shut outs and throwing heaps of pressure on opposing QB's.

bronco militia
12-07-2009, 12:30 PM
Problem Solved

replace the mirror with a clock......

bpc
12-07-2009, 12:31 PM
It was inside bullrush for the most part. The fumble at the 50 yard line was Orton trying to make a deep throw and Clady got owned inside. Kyle slides out of the way and is looking down field just about to throw, while Clady was holding Hali then let him go and Hali hit Kyle's hand when he was back to pass.

On Orton's intercept in the redzone Clady was beaten inside again and Hali was about to kill Kyle, so Klye panicked and threw it in the middle of the field. It was 2nd down and he should have tossed it out of the endzone (like he normally does)

The fumble near the endzone was both Clady being beaten and Orton holding on too long in an attempt to make a play.


Overall Clady was whipped by Hali in the passing game. He was solid in the run blocking.

I see a lot of Clady blaming, but not much on Orton.

Ryan did get owned by Hali but the QB has to watch a OT's back, much like that OT must protect his QB. Get rid of the ball! Especially if Hali is coming across Orton's face. This is basic offensive knowledge which is escaping our marginal QB.

kappys
12-07-2009, 12:32 PM
Ultimately the only gripe I really have about Orton is his deep ball accuracy. If he can fix anything that would be it.

PaintballCLE
12-07-2009, 12:32 PM
sometimes its better to take the sack than move around in the pocket and force the ball. Just ask the bears.

TDmvp
12-07-2009, 12:45 PM
Kyle Fed Clady over on that one sack ... He moved outside the pocket to the side of Clady and all Hali had to do was disengage and grab Kyle ...
I was all Please stop trying to move ... You can't , so please stop ...
I still say Kyle scrambles like Stephen Hawking and Simms throws like Hawkings ...

Bronco Warrior
12-07-2009, 03:08 PM
Pretty much every QB is in trouble if they have to improvise.

Do you ever actually watch football? Most good, not even great QBs do their job when they have to improvise. Do names like Farve, Elway, Marino, Young, Montana, McMahon, Brees, Vick (Hate that ahole) McNabb, Flacco Rothlesberger, Roger the dodger, Tarkenton,...any of a list of hundred ring a bell? They made and are making thier living of the ability to improvise. And the line wasn't as bad as people think in the losses...it just exposed Orton's lack of mobility and deep ball threat. When he came back against Washington..look at the bombs he hit to Marshall and all the bootlegs and roll outs McD made him run...made the defense honest untill he got hurt.

As for the sacks, the only one that was clearly around only Clady was the first one where he was chased down on the opposite side of the field by Hali...and wWTF is Orton still doing with the ball? Anybody would have let him go KNOWING the ball would/should be long gone!

Bronco Warrior
12-07-2009, 03:12 PM
Clady hasn't been as good since he cut his hair.

Neither has Hamilton! Never cut a strong man's hair! (Coming from a longhair lol)

Bronco Warrior
12-07-2009, 03:25 PM
problem solved!!!

jhns
12-07-2009, 03:33 PM
Orton should work on this one thing: Getting good.

This team has some above average to great players at every offensive position other than QB. A good QB would make this a top 5 offense. That is, unless we have problems with the scheme and that is what makes Orton look bad. I'm not sure what you all are seeing from Orton. I would suggest rewatching this season. He is good enough for now. I would really like to see a QB competition this offseason. I would really like to see us bring in a new QB this offseason unless they think Branstater can compete for the starting job.

rastaman
12-09-2009, 01:16 PM
Problem Solved

ROFL! Priceless!! Ha!

Archer81
12-09-2009, 01:43 PM
problem solved!!!


Of all the pictures of Brandstater on the interwebs, you post a pic taken by a camera phone on a 20 year old TV. Good work, BYU.


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
12-09-2009, 01:47 PM
Of all the pictures of Brandstater on the interwebs, you post a pic taken by a camera phone on a 20 year old TV. Good work, BYU.


:Broncos:

Those are just his beer goggles.

Archer81
12-09-2009, 01:49 PM
Those are just his beer goggles.


That explains his myspace hoe army.


:Broncos:

mhgaffney
12-09-2009, 01:53 PM
I was disappointed when McD put Simms in -- in the 4th quarter.

I was hoping to see Brandstater. (Why is Simms even on the team at this point?)

It looked like Simms was under orders to just hand it off to Hillis -- no passes so he did not embarrass himself.

But it would have been great to see Brandstater.

OABB
12-09-2009, 01:56 PM
I was disappointed when McD put Simms in -- in the 4th quarter.

I was hoping to see Brandstater. (Why is Simms even on the team at this point?)

It looked like Simms was under orders to just hand it off to Hillis -- no passes so he did not embarrass himself.

But it would have been great to see Brandstater.

He wanted to make Cassel look better.

Hamrob
12-09-2009, 02:19 PM
Agreed. Orton is just fine. Clady was manhandled in the second half a few times.I disagree. Clady was holding his guy for 5-6 seconds or more. In offensive line terminology...that's a life-time. Orton needs to get the ball out of there quicker. The guy was like a statue in the pocket against the Chiefs...and that wasn't the first of it. We won despite Orton. He has to play 10x better for us to beat the Colts.