is Obama a lame duck?

[mhgaffney]

It's disturbing that such a question appears unavoidable just now - as we near the end of Obama's first year in office - especially since he just won the ultimate prize -- the Nobel Peace Prize.

Here is what I wonder -- will Americans realize that our political system is terminally dysfunctional -- and DEMAND the creation of a new THIRD PARTY willing to represent the people rather than the elite interests?

OR: Will they forget GW Bush and throw their support to the ridiculous Republicans?

An old friend of mine who's politically savvy does not think a new third party has much chance. He says the two party system is hard wired in -- and we won't succeed in directly overcoming this.

Another alternative, of course, is economic collapse - as a result of US imperial overreach. Not a pretty picture. If this happens we will find ourselves living in a very different world.

Just thinking out loud...

[spdirty]

gaff, in your perfect world, how many viable political parties do you think we should have minimum?


And what would you say/think if we had, say, 3, 4, or 5 viable candidates for president and not one of them got 270 electoral votes?

[watermock]

Pretty simple, you have a runoff or create a coalition government.

I would prefer the former.

One thing is certain, both parties are owned by the MIC/fed/Shadow goverment/special interests/lobbyists, not the people.

[peacepipe]

will Americans realize that our political system is terminally dysfunctional
Getting rid of the filibuster would fix this problem. Bipartisanship is another word for gridlock.

[Meck77]

Americans just aren't pissed off enough to elect a third party candidate. Ron Paul didn't win but he sure did offer some sound advice heading into this financial storm for those that were paying attention.

Meanwhile the people who called Ron Paul a "nut job" are probably realizing that Obama isn't going to put gas in their car and pay their mortgages. Hilarious!

I'm just waiting for Obama to come on TV in a couple weeks and declare the mission accomplished in Afghanistan next.

Do yourselves a favor and start listening to Ron instead of the liar you elected into office.


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[spdirty]

Getting rid of the filibuster would fix this problem. Bipartisanship is another word for gridlock.

What the hell do you have against gridlock? Are you against it when the GOP is in power and trying to get ANWR through, a ban on gay marriage through, a tax cut to the mean and evil rich, or a ban on abortion through?

[peacepipe]

What the hell do you have against gridlock? Are you against it when the GOP is in power and trying to get ANWR through, a ban on gay marriage through, a tax cut to the mean and evil rich, or a ban on abortin thrugh?

Oh no, just until the upcomming elections, at which point put it back.:wiggle:

[Bronx33]

It's disturbing that such a question appears unavoidable just now - as we near the end of Obama's first year in office - especially since he just won the ultimate prize -- the Nobel Peace Prize.

Here is what I wonder -- will Americans realize that our political system is terminally dysfunctional -- and DEMAND the creation of a new THIRD PARTY willing to represent the people rather than the elite interests?

OR: Will they forget GW Bush and throw their support to the ridiculous Republicans?

An old friend of mine who's politically savvy does not think a new third party has much chance. He says the two party system is hard wired in -- and we won't succeed in directly overcoming this.

Another alternative, of course, is economic collapse - as a result of US imperial overreach. Not a pretty picture. If this happens we will find ourselves living in a very different world.

Just thinking out loud...


Dems are writing a whole new chapter and writing a whole new definition for the word (ridiculous)

[peacepipe]

Dems are writing a whole new chapter and writing a whole new definition for the word (ridiculous)Are you kidding me!? between the birthers & teabaggers you guys take the cake when comes to ridiculus. Your boys have the best no show job in the country.

[Bronx33]

Are you kidding me!? between the birthers & teabaggers you guys take the cake when comes to ridiculus. Your boys have the best no show job in the country.

My boys? i dislike all of them ( for the record ) they all suck or is everything going on fine with you?

[peacepipe]

My boys? i dislike all of them ( for the record ) they all suck or is everything going on fine with you?

Did you vote in 2000,2004, or 2008? I have a hard time imagining you voted gore,kerry or Obama. You're not an independent & you're definately not a Democrat.

As far as everything is going,I think Obama needs to get all his judicial appointments in place alot faster, use reconciliation to get HCR done,pass EFCA now while they have 60, I would even support dropping the fillibuster # down to 55. Overall, I'm pretty happy about his efforts considering the mess he's having to clean up.

[Bronx33]

Did you vote in 2000,2004, or 2008? I have a hard time imagining you voted gore,kerry or Obama. You're not an independent & you're definately not a Democrat.

As far as everything is going,I think Obama needs to get all his judicial appointments in place alot faster, use reconciliation to get HCR done,pass EFCA now while they have 60, I would even support dropping the fillibuster # down to 55. Overall, I'm pretty happy about his efforts considering the mess he's having to clean up.

Iam a registered independent that wishes for a real president to come and really lead this country or even a 3rd party cause the other two have lost their way years ago and what exactly has obama cleaned up and what efforts are you happy with? iam seeing a much bigger mess to be cleaned up in 3 years but thats just my opinion.

[peacepipe]

Iam a registered independent that wishes for a real president to come and really lead this country or even a 3rd party cause the other two have lost their way years ago and what exactly has obama cleaned up and what efforts are you happy with? iam seeing a much bigger mess to be cleaned up in 3 years but thats just my opinion.I can register as a republican but that doesn't mean that I am a republican. You stance on issues may not be "republican" but by no means are you in the center.

It's going to take a lot longer than 10 months to finish cleaning the mess GWB left behind.

[Bronx33]

I can register as a republican but that doesn't mean that I am a republican. You stance on issues may not be "republican" but by no means are you in the center.

It's going to take a lot longer than 10 months to finish cleaning the mess GWB left behind.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Endy]

Pretty simple, you have a runoff or create a coalition government.

I would prefer the former.

One thing is certain, both parties are owned by the MIC/fed/Shadow goverment/special interests/lobbyists, not the people.

Actually, you just follow the Constitutional procedure, which is to take it to the HOR. Remember that was a concern in 2000 and was how we got the "corrupt bargain" in 1824.

[mhgaffney]

Some one asked about my views.

I believe a parliamentary government is a better approach. Nations with parliamentary systems have numerous parties. Any party that wins a certain minimum numbers of votes in an election (a minimum percentage of the total) gets representation in the next government.


Often -- no one candidate wins a clear majority. In that case the party with the most votes gets to put together a government -- based on forming coalitions with smaller parties.

Such a system is far from perfect -- there is no perfect system -- but it would allow the voice of the people to be heard. A smaller party -- like the Green Party -- might be able to leverage its power far beyond its numbers - and bring about positive changes that would not otherwise happen.

I still hope for a third party. I believe it becomes more and more possible --if the economy continues to deteriorate. Hate to say it -- but crisis changes the political landscape. What was impossible yesterday suddenly becomes possible.

The core of a third party would be greens, libertarians, disgruntled Dems and Republicans - and the remains of the old Rainbow Coalition, i.e., blacks, gays, feminists and other minorities.

You could cobble together a clear majority from this base. But who's gonna get out there and make it happen?

Volunteers?

MHG

[cutthemdown]

Some one asked about my views.

I believe a parliamentary government is a better approach. Nations with parliamentary systems have numerous parties. Any party that wins a certain minimum numbers of votes in an election (a minimum percentage of the total) gets representation in the next government.


Often -- no one candidate wins a clear majority. In that case the party with the most votes gets to put together a government -- based on forming coalitions with smaller parties.

Such a system is far from perfect -- there is no perfect system -- but it would allow the voice of the people to be heard. A smaller party -- like the Green Party -- might be able to leverage its power far beyond its numbers - and bring about positive changes that would not otherwise happen.

I still hope for a third party. I believe it becomes more and more possible --if the economy continues to deteriorate. Hate to say it -- but crisis changes the political landscape. What was impossible yesterday suddenly becomes possible.

The core of a third party would be greens, libertarians, disgruntled Dems and Republicans - and the remains of the old Rainbow Coalition, i.e., blacks, gays, feminists and other minorities.

You could cobble together a clear majority from this base. But who's gonna get out there and make it happen?

Volunteers?

MHG


Which is why liberals want to destroy the economy with bogus claims of global warming etc. Then they can send unemployment to 20% and get the changes they want.

[cutthemdown]

Did you vote in 2000,2004, or 2008? I have a hard time imagining you voted gore,kerry or Obama. You're not an independent & you're definately not a Democrat.

As far as everything is going,I think Obama needs to get all his judicial appointments in place alot faster, use reconciliation to get HCR done,pass EFCA now while they have 60, I would even support dropping the fillibuster # down to 55. Overall, I'm pretty happy about his efforts considering the mess he's having to clean up.

you drop the fillibuster number, (not sure that can be done easily), and remember then when repubs have control dems will not have it to use either.

It's easy to want the line Item Veto, and a ban on fillibustering when you are in power, not as cool when you aren't.

[BroncoInferno]

A viable third party would not fix things anyway. Look at the European nations with multiple party make-ups: their chambers are a mess because it is so difficult to get working majorities on anything. The problem is not the two party system: the problem is that the majority of voters are willing to accept what the two dominant parties give them. The political system will only change when the people (truly) demand it. A viable third party would only further muddle the process.

[Bronx33]

A viable third party would not fix things anyway. Look at the European nations with multiple party make-ups: their chambers are a mess because it is so difficult to get working majorities on anything. The problem is not the two party system: the problem is that the majority of voters are willing to accept what the two dominant parties give them. The political system will only change when the people (truly) demand it. A viable third party would only further muddle the process.


A third party with a platform of working for the people and making policy that actually will works instead of policy to further the party, make smart decisions ect ect ect ect you know what a goverment is suppose to be doing. Just might level the playing field i know people are far to stupid to buy into it and people are far to stupid to stand up and make themselves heard to force politicians to do their jobs so what would the next move be? people are just used to being screwed.

The two party system right now is a joke and iam sick of voting for the lesser of the two evils and adminitrations that just flat out lie right to our faces, greed and flat out stupidity is what is holding us back.

[mhgaffney]

Right, Bronx,

A third party committed to representing the real interests of the people --rather than the vested interests of powerful elites -- is a no brainer. The idea is so logical and makes so much sense you have to wonder why it never happened.

But of course -- this is precisely the point. The fact it has NOT happened is the whole story.

The US is run by and for the powerful elites. In numbers they are not great -- probably less than 1% of the total population.

But they know every trick -- every means to divide us -- keep us bickering among ourselves -- disunited -- and distracted with reality TV, fooball, celebs, and every other thing -- which enables them to stay out of the spotlight --

They also know how to scare the people whenever its deemed necessary to pull our strings and keep us in check. They do this mostly with fake enemies (Arab terrorists hiding behind every rock and tree) -- when in fact they are the real enemy -- hiding right here among us -- in plain sight --- but unseen.

[SPfloppy]

The idea of a 3rd party, while it would most likely be a step in the right direction, it would take a near disaster to get a brand new political system in place and I don't want it that bad

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

is Obama a lame duck?

Anyone who inherited the ruined America Bush and the Corrupt Old Party left behind was guaranteed to be a lame duck to one degree or another.

[rastaman]

I don't believe any President has ever been a "Lame Duck" after just 10 months in office. Check back with me in 15-20 months.

[peacepipe]

this whole notion of Obama being a "lame duck" is all propaganda meant to get people to believe that Obama can't get anything done. Trying to set the stage for 2010 & 2012.

[atomicbloke]

A third party with a platform of working for the people and making policy that actually will works instead of policy to further the party, make smart decisions ect ect ect ect you know what a goverment is suppose to be doing. Just might level the playing field i know people are far to stupid to buy into it and people are far to stupid to stand up and make themselves heard to force politicians to do their jobs so what would the next move be? people are just used to being screwed.

The two party system right now is a joke and iam sick of voting for the lesser of the two evils and adminitrations that just flat out lie right to our faces, greed and flat out stupidity is what is holding us back.

In a 3-party system, you would soon be sick of voting for the lesser of the 3 evils.

[rastaman]

In a 3-party system, you would soon be sick of voting for the lesser of the 3 evils.

France has 8 party's and Germany has 5.....hmmmmm I guess those European countries got it right.

Europe probably laughs and shake their heads in wonderment why independents and conservatives can't get their act together to start a 3rd party system. Kinda makes you wonder why the supporters of a 3rd party in America do not make a concerted effort to invite progressives and liberals into their Third Party aspirations.

In fact why is it so hard to bring the voters in the income brackets from minimum wage to $100K under one solidarity voting block to vote out the Coroprate Republicans and Corporate Democrats.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/H/r/2/gop-killing-healthcare.jpg

[Bronx33]

In a 3-party system, you would soon be sick of voting for the lesser of the 3 evils.

Do you also have the next winning lotto numbers Mr negative?

[mhgaffney]

I love those cartoons, LABF!

[watermock]

The powers that be want a 2 party system because they can control both.

The constitution doesn't prohibit 3rd parties, the financial elite does.

The fundamental flaw is that the SOTH decides, not a runoff.

[Taco John]

I don't know that he's a lame duck yet, but I think his presidency is in serious trouble. I think that they had carefully laid plans for his presidency that are going up in smoke fast. I'm having a hard time determining what he's going to campaign on in 2012. Maybe the economy based on the stimulus.

But for instance, this health care bill that is going through congress - it's a joke. A shell of what any self respecting liberal would like. I live in Portland, and have a lot of liberal friends, and most all of them have thrown their hands in the air over this thing. They talk bitterly about it, and how the insurance companies get what they want, and everybody else is screwed. I think that probably not entirely fair analysis, but when it comes to public trend forecasting, I don't care about what's fair. Just their perceptions. As far as I'm concerned, the bill is a disaster enshrining a new broken status quo that nobody will be happy with. But I digress.

The next thing is the environment. This thing is falling apart at the seams. Copenhagen was very carefully constructed. Congress has no legislation scheduled on the environment until the spring. Between now and then, they're focused on health care, and the economy. The timing of Copenhagen was to be perfect! They'd get all this stuff accomplished in December, and then use January and February to pave the way towards legislation towards ratifying these world agreements. Climategate shoots that whole strategy to hell. Without Climategate, this thing would have been in the bag, and a huge victory for Obama. With Climategate, it's over. The discussion in America is finished. There is no way that Congress is going to pass any form of Cap and Trade in this environment. Only 44% of Americans agree that Global Warming is an issue, and that number is prior to Climategate (see Pew Research (http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1427/global-warming-major-problem-around-world-americans-less-concerned)) taking root.

Obama is going to have to lean heavily on the economy and success in Afghanistan in 2010 for mid-terms. I think he's in serious trouble on both accounts, but I hope I'm wrong. I think that Democrats are going to lose seats in 2010 though. I would be suprised if they maintained their position. I have a hard time seeing it do anything but receed. And if that's correct, I have no idea what Obama can accomplish in between 2010 and 2012 that will garner him re-election.

This, of course, does not take account for black swan events.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

^ "Climategate" = the right's Dan Rather-gate 2.0

[Taco John]

^ "Climategate" = the right's Dan Rather-gate 2.0

I don't think so. I think that you want to believe that, but I think you fail to understand the damage that it's doing on a global scale - particularly in Europe. While American papers are pretty well hushing this over, publications over the pond are covering it like Tiger Woods just got caught nailing the Queen.

That's not to say that it isn't taking root in America. But it doesn't need to so much here. American's don't believe in AGW. Look at the last three years:

http://people-press.org/reports/images/556-2.gif

And now look at the aggregate published on December 2, prior to Climategate taking root:

http://pewresearch.org/assets/publications/1427-1.gif

I wouldn't classify you as a strategist as far as this stuff goes, but that's sort of my thing (only I do it for a living in tech markets, with politics being more of a hobby). If I were a global warming strategist, I'd probably be tuning up my resume recognizing that the battle, if not the war over Global Warming in America is lost. I just can't see how it's going to go anywhere from here, but south. If Copenhagen doesn't produce the public opinion bounce that they need to pull off the legislation they desire, it'll be another decade before they get another chance. If health care is any indication, it may be two decades before America lifts a finger.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

^ source for data/graphs?

Wouldn't surprise me if the second one was legit - the rankings are probably commensurate with how we stack up against those other countries when it comes to academics as well. :oyvey:

[Taco John]

Both are from Pew Research:


Global Warming Seen as Problem Around the World:
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1427/global-warming-major-problem-around-world-americans-less-concerned

and

Fewer Americans See Solid Evidence of Global Warming:
http://people-press.org/report/556/global-warming

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

^ "See no evil..."

No great surprise there.

[Taco John]

It was for me. I thought Cap and Trade was in the bag the way things have been reported. I didn't realize that it was already DOA.

[atomicbloke]

Do you also have the next winning lotto numbers Mr negative?

No.

But enough life experience to know that this "3rd party utopia", where members of the third party would be true representative of the people (read you), would agree with the people (read you) on every one of your issues, and that this party would have no ties to special interests, and this party would not be afflicted at all with universal human weaknesses leading to corruption and incompetence, is just wishful thinking.

If America had a 3-party system, people would be calling for a 4th party that would really understand the real issues of the people and represented them fairly.

Politicians will be politicians, whether its a 2-party system, or a 50-party system.

[cutthemdown]

is Obama a lame duck?

Anyone who inherited the ruined America Bush and the Corrupt Old Party left behind was guaranteed to be a lame duck to one degree or another.

Do you think that will be enough to get him re-elected. Usually after 4 yrs have passed the country won't buy it was the other guys fault.

Besides Bush's bank bailout starting to make money back. It's starting to look like tarp was a winner, the surge a winner, so he went out sort of on 2 scores.

Obama has cash for clunkers, the stimulus, the afghan surge, the iraq pullout, the talk tough on Israel then backtrack, the talk tough on Honduran coup then backtrack, sky rocketing unemployment way worst then anything under Bush.

Healthcare may be a winner for him we will see but nothing really seems to be working well for Obama.

Also I doubt the ability of Obama to fire up the black vote as much second time around.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Do you think that will be enough to get him re-elected. Usually after 8 months have passed the country won't buy it was the other guys fault.



Fixed. :thumbsup:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Healthcare may be a winner for him we will see but nothing really seems to be working well for Obama.



Look at how long it took Clinton to repair the damage done by Poppy and Saint Ron, i.e., to pay down the debt, etc.

The mess Obama inherited makes the problems Clinton faced look like a walk in the park by comparison.

[mhgaffney]

Yes, LABF, but Obama made the wrong moves from the start -- if he was serious about turning things around.

If he had brought in a whole new cast of characters to lead us back to economic health he would have had instant support everywhere across this country. By promoting the very people from Goldman Sachs who were making millions correction: billions) while the fed reserve engineered bubble expanded -- Obama demonstrated that he was just another "yes" man -- another Wall Street puppet.

I recognize that if he had taken the correct path Obama would have endangered his own life -- but hey -- it is what it is.

Which only goes to show just how badly we need another American revolution to restore the Constitution, clean house, end the wars, and make a fresh start.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yes, LABF, but Obama made the wrong moves from the start -- if he was serious about turning things around.

If he had brought in a whole new cast of characters to lead us back to economic health he would have had instant support everywhere across this country. By promoting the very people from Goldman Sachs who were making millions correction: billions) while the fed reserve engineered bubble expanded -- Obama demonstrated that he was just another "yes" man -- another Wall Street puppet.

I recognize that if he had taken the correct path Obama would have endangered his own life -- but hey -- it is what it is.

Which only goes to show just how badly we need another American revolution to restore the Constitution, clean house, end the wars, and make a fresh start.

Sad but true.

Being a "yes man" is the only way to get elected these days as the entire system has been purchased lock, stock and barrel by special interest groups, and our politicians are just actors in a bad reality TV show.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Which only goes to show just how badly we need another American revolution to restore the Constitution, clean house, end the wars, and make a fresh start.

The civil disobedience and uprisings against the status quo of the 1960s frightened the aforementioned special interests and entrenched powers so much that they have worked incredibly hard over the last ~40 years to see that it never happens again.

Little to suggest that they haven't been successful in that endeavor, sadly.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://bartblog.bartcop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cartoon-gop-crazy-squawk.gif

[W*GS]

Obama may or may not be a lame duck, but gaff-o is definitely a limp dick.