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broncocalijohn
05-19-2012, 04:32 PM
Those might be the first words of support/defense of Paxton ever on the Mane.

Well, it came from McD apologist Drek. Long snapper Leach is two years older than Paxton..who gives a ****? Long snapper don't age like running backs. Plus, where is Paxton now? Leach was loyal to the broncos. Mcdaniels was loyal to his former team.

R-Mac
05-19-2012, 04:37 PM
The Broncos (Joe Ellis?) should not have fired Mike Shanahan while Jay Cutler was still being developed as the franchise quarterback.

WolfpackGuy
05-19-2012, 04:55 PM
Those might be the first words of support/defense of Paxton ever on the Mane.

"Big Money" Paxton had two bad snaps in two years which was two more than Leach had in 6+ seasons as a Bronco.

Money well spent.

SoCalBronco
05-19-2012, 06:07 PM
The Broncos (Joe Ellis?) should not have fired Mike Shanahan while Jay Cutler was still being developed as the franchise quarterback.

Hopefully Joe Ellis will be getting his day of reckoning soon. Come on John, make it happen. Let me taste your tears, Joe....I can't wait to see that douchebag on the unemployment line for what he did to Shanny.

lonestar
05-19-2012, 06:37 PM
1. Lonnie Paxton is two years younger than Mike Leach.

2. Mike Leach's service time required a vet minimum of about $850K. Lonnie Paxton's deal paid him just over $1M per year. So by "double" you mean about $200K, which is less than the league minimum for all but players in their first handful of seasons.

I loved leach and at first blush did not like the move..

I supported him for ever because every summer morons would be wanting to cut Leach because we id not need to keep like 5 TE's.

What they failed to grasp was his worth was as LS and then on punts being one of the first if not the first guy down field to surround the PR guy..


But then after hearing a report from the punter at the time. HE said Paxton came to him on one of the first days of practice and asked him where he liked the ball to be snapped to him..

He said from that day forward the snaps were not more than an a few inches off again.. While he liked Mike and he was a great LS Paxton was just that much better..

Your correct about the money it was a lot for a specialty guy when it was announced but most of the morons did not realize that Mike was going to get about the same money anyway..

in a couple of games last year I noticed that Paxton was also down field just like Mike used to be on punts.. He probably was all the time just had not seen it..

KipCorrington25
05-19-2012, 06:44 PM
Maybe Paxton is better but he'll never be able to get the stench of McCheat off him. Also, bringing him in was sort of indicative of how McDaniels screwed things up, taking a position that was about 100th on the priority list and making a change just because he thought he was smarter than everyone else.

lonestar
05-19-2012, 06:48 PM
The Broncos (Joe Ellis?) should not have fired Mike Shanahan while Jay Cutler was still being developed as the franchise quarterback.

Shirley you jest!

mikey who caused this team to fade from day one in the personnel decisions..

You realize that mikey had just 6 rounds one through three picks out of IIRC 46 total picks in those rounds to be resigned to a second contract once their rookie contract expired..

6/46 you do the math..

Lets not even count the hundreds of millions spent on FA busts most of which found its way to dead cap space each year..

mikey had two decent drafts while he was here for what I call the foundation of your team rounds 1-3 06 and IMO those were all head cases and 08 with Clady and Royal..

two out his 14 years of bringing in talent..

Lets also remember that he won ONE playoff game after Elway retired.. ONE stinking Play off game and lets not even talk about how many times his teams faded in the late season and got killed in the playoffs..

your man love is showing if you think either cutlet or mikey was worth keeping..

lonestar
05-19-2012, 06:50 PM
Well, it came from McD apologist Drek. Long snapper Leach is two years older than Paxton..who gives a ****? Long snapper don't age like running backs. Plus, where is Paxton now? Leach was loyal to the broncos. Mcdaniels was loyal to his former team.

Gee I always thought that being loyal to your players was a good thing..

Having Paxton on the team gave him another player familiar with the scheme he was bringing in.

Shananahan
05-19-2012, 07:18 PM
Let me taste your tears, Joe....I can't wait to see that douchebag on the unemployment line for what he did to Shanny.
I can't tell you how delightful these posts are to me.

R-Mac
05-19-2012, 07:41 PM
Lets also remember that he won ONE playoff game after Elway retired.. ONE stinking Play off game and lets not even talk about how many times his teams faded in the late season and got killed in the playoffs..


And then McDaniels came and, without Shanahan and Cutler, the Broncos finished the 2010 season with a 4-12 record, the second worst campaign in the league. Let's also remember the 2-8 record in 2009 after the bye week. Honestly, I'd rather have Shanahan with Jay Cutler at quarterback. At least the team had a quarterback. McDaniels did not bring anything positive to the Broncos, and that's why he was fired in his second season. The Broncos went from knocking at the door to lying on the floor. He was a very bad experiment.

Missouribronc
05-19-2012, 08:49 PM
So can I assume you do not cry like a baby when you see the helicopter play???

Man. Talk about a non-sequitur.

baja
05-19-2012, 09:52 PM
Man. Talk about a non-sequitur.

Is that a fancy way of admitting it went right over your head?

Archer81
05-19-2012, 09:57 PM
Shirley you jest!

mikey who caused this team to fade from day one in the personnel decisions..

You realize that mikey had just 6 rounds one through three picks out of IIRC 46 total picks in those rounds to be resigned to a second contract once their rookie contract expired..

6/46 you do the math..

Lets not even count the hundreds of millions spent on FA busts most of which found its way to dead cap space each year..

mikey had two decent drafts while he was here for what I call the foundation of your team rounds 1-3 06 and IMO those were all head cases and 08 with Clady and Royal..

two out his 14 years of bringing in talent..

Lets also remember that he won ONE playoff game after Elway retired.. ONE stinking Play off game and lets not even talk about how many times his teams faded in the late season and got killed in the playoffs..

your man love is showing if you think either cutlet or mikey was worth keeping..


For every bust, there was a Neil Smith, McCaffrey, Romanowski or Lynch.

Coach a team for 14 years and you will have good and bad. It was time for Shanahan to go. It happens.

And while I do not love Cutler...try to be a bit more grown up about the name calling. Cutlet? Really?

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
05-19-2012, 10:30 PM
At the risk of posting just the second words of support/defense of Paxton, I recall an article from a Boston paper, ran a couple weeks after he signed here. It compared the turnouts and support shown at two different parties thrown by Patriot players on the same night. Tom Brady and Giselle Bundchen held a public reception for their recent wedding. It was reportedly awkward, stiff, and sparsely attended. But on the other end of town, it was standing room only for Lonie Paxton's going-away party, as players, coaches and staff raised their glasses in unison to wish him well.

So now I'm wondering ... did Lonie get a fair shake here? I remember training camp '09, SoCal and I laughing so hard at Paxton and his tree truck legs, exercising alone on the furthest field at Dove Valley. We called it the "Montrae Holland Fat Camp Field," and then we laughed some more. We all know it's wrong to make a mockery of any Broncos player, but with this guy we do it anyway, and that's just mean. Now I'm thinking the real victim here was Paxton himself.

Lonie we hardly knew ye.

lonestar
05-20-2012, 09:16 PM
For every bust, there was a Neil Smith, McCaffrey, Romanowski or Lynch.

Coach a team for 14 years and you will have good and bad. It was time for Shanahan to go. It happens.

And while I do not love Cutler...try to be a bit more grown up about the name calling. Cutlet? Really?

:Broncos:

Your correct he did have a few good rentals, but developed NO ONE from scratch other than perhaps TD, Rod and Sharpe and I susepct they did 90% of that on sheer will power..

the guy was a great OC IMO none better, but a HC with the power he had he was lucky he got those rings early with John at the helm if that had not happened he would have never been given as much rope as he got..

As for cutlet, I use that to piss off his bromance fans..

lonestar
05-20-2012, 09:18 PM
At the risk of posting just the second words of support/defense of Paxton, I recall an article from a Boston paper, ran a couple weeks after he signed here. It compared the turnouts and support shown at two different parties thrown by Patriot players on the same night. Tom Brady and Giselle Bundchen held a public reception for their recent wedding. It was reportedly awkward, stiff, and sparsely attended. But on the other end of town, it was standing room only for Lonie Paxton's going-away party, as players, coaches and staff raised their glasses in unison to wish him well.

So now I'm wondering ... did Lonie get a fair shake here? I remember training camp '09, SoCal and I laughing so hard at Paxton and his tree truck legs, exercising alone on the furthest field at Dove Valley. We called it the "Montrae Holland Fat Camp Field," and then we laughed some more. We all know it's wrong to make a mockery of any Broncos player, but with this guy we do it anyway, and that's just mean. Now I'm thinking the real victim here was Paxton himself.

Lonie we hardly knew ye.


Great post..had any other HC brought him in most likely would be one of the most loved guys on the team....

Blueflame
05-20-2012, 09:45 PM
Great post..had any other HC brought him in most likely would be one of the most loved guys on the team....

My perception is that the need was so dire on the defensive side of the ball that it would be far more accurate to say: "had he played any defensive position (and played it well), he (the decision to acquire him)" most likely would have been less controversial.

We (desperately) needed defense; not a change at long-snapper. And to many, for the Paxton acquisition to be one of the first moves McDaniels made... was a clear sign that fixing the defense was not going to be even on McDaniels' radar; much less a priority for him.

Archer81
05-20-2012, 09:55 PM
Your correct he did have a few good rentals, but developed NO ONE from scratch other than perhaps TD, Rod and Sharpe and I susepct they did 90% of that on sheer will power..

the guy was a great OC IMO none better, but a HC with the power he had he was lucky he got those rings early with John at the helm if that had not happened he would have never been given as much rope as he got..
As for cutlet, I use that to piss off his bromance fans..


Smith and Sharpe were Reeves and Philips pickups. Shanahan had successes (Portis, Gary, Anderson, Droughns, Lepsis, Hamilton, Neil, Pryce, Wilson, Kennedy, O'Neal, Gold, traded Portis for Bailey, the whole Browncos phenomenon). Alot of these players were solid or good and did whatever the coaching staff needed them to do.

The entire bolded paragraph is a joke, right?

I am not a fan of butchering former Bronco player names JUST to annoy someone. It's Cutler. It's Tebow. Find another way to get your disdain for that player across without resorting to name calling.


:Broncos:

bowtown
05-20-2012, 10:18 PM
Your correct he did have a few good rentals, but developed NO ONE from scratch other than perhaps TD, Rod and Sharpe and I susepct they did 90% of that on sheer will power..


When you talk in stupid absolutes and then contradict yourself you sound contradictory and stupid.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
05-20-2012, 10:26 PM
Let's be sacrificers, but not butchers, Caius.
. . . And, gentle friends,
Let's kill him boldly, but not wrathfully;
Let's carve him as a dish fit for the gods,
Not hew him as a carcass fit for hounds;
And let our hearts, as subtle masters do,
Stir up their servants to an act of rage,
And after seem to chide 'em.
<CITE>Julius Caesar Act 2, scene 1 (http://www.enotes.com/jc-text/act-ii-scene-i?start=2#jul-2-1-173)</CITE>

Drek
05-21-2012, 07:44 AM
"Big Money" Paxton had two bad snaps in two years which was two more than Leach had in 6+ seasons as a Bronco.

Money well spent.

And Paxton didn't have a bad snap in eight years prior to coming here.

Its a freak incident when a guy like Paxton or Leach has a bad snap, period.

Lonie we hardly knew ye.
Last I checked the dude is still on the team.

My perception is that the need was so dire on the defensive side of the ball that it would be far more accurate to say: "had he played any defensive position (and played it well), he (the decision to acquire him)" most likely would have been less controversial.

We (desperately) needed defense; not a change at long-snapper. And to many, for the Paxton acquisition to be one of the first moves McDaniels made... was a clear sign that fixing the defense was not going to be even on McDaniels' radar; much less a priority for him.
Josh McDaniels first year in Denver:
12th best defense by points, 7th best defense by yards allowed.

That after being 30th and 29th respectively the year before that, and 28/19 the year before that.

Since '09 we've been 32/32 in 2010 and 24/20 last year.

So yeah, the only time this defense has gotten above the bad to mediocre range post-Al Wilson was under McDaniels. Your argument that it wasn't even on his radar is completely invalid. Had there been a real power structure like Bowlen claimed he wanted we likely would never have seen the falling out between Nolan and McDaniels, meaning that the 2010 season could have built on the 2009 foundation.

Again we see how the entire problem was Bowlen's inability to manage his own team, deferring to Joe Ellis who has zero credentials on pro football personnel (coaches or players). Bowlen put the bean counter in charge and then watched the bean counter choose the lowest cost option at every turn (McDaniels cost less than Spags, Xanders was cheaper than Goodman & Goodman by simple merit of cutting two people instead of one, no big money FAs brought in period, shipped out both Cutler and Marshall due to contract demands).

Now Bowlen has appointed Elway as his steward and suddenly the team shows some signs of consistency. Crazy how that happened.

If Elway had replaced Shanahan as the VP of football ops after 2008 I'd bet a lot of the core hiring decisions would have still been the same (McDaniels, Nolan) but someone who actually knows football would have been around to mediate all issues. Someone with credibility with the fans and media. Instead everything was entrusted to McDaniels in his very first try as a HC. He made it all of eight games further in his first stop than Mike Shanahan did, working for a team every bit as dysfunctional, but on the opposite end of the spectrum, as Shanahan's first stop.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 07:52 AM
And Paxton didn't have a bad snap in eight years prior to coming here.

Its a freak incident when a guy like Paxton or Leach has a bad snap, period.


Last I checked the dude is still on the team.


Josh McDaniels first year in Denver:
12th best defense by points, 7th best defense by yards allowed.

That after being 30th and 29th respectively the year before that, and 28/19 the year before that.

Since '09 we've been 32/32 in 2010 and 24/20 last year.

So yeah, the only time this defense has gotten above the bad to mediocre range post-Al Wilson was under McDaniels. Your argument that it wasn't even on his radar is completely invalid. Had there been a real power structure like Bowlen claimed he wanted we likely would never have seen the falling out between Nolan and McDaniels, meaning that the 2010 season could have built on the 2009 foundation.

Again we see how the entire problem was Bowlen's inability to manage his own team, deferring to Joe Ellis who has zero credentials on pro football personnel (coaches or players). Bowlen put the bean counter in charge and then watched the bean counter choose the lowest cost option at every turn (McDaniels cost less than Spags, Xanders was cheaper than Goodman & Goodman by simple merit of cutting two people instead of one, no big money FAs brought in period, shipped out both Cutler and Marshall due to contract demands).

Now Bowlen has appointed Elway as his steward and suddenly the team shows some signs of consistency. Crazy how that happened.

If Elway had replaced Shanahan as the VP of football ops after 2008 I'd bet a lot of the core hiring decisions would have still been the same (McDaniels, Nolan) but someone who actually knows football would have been around to mediate all issues. Someone with credibility with the fans and media. Instead everything was entrusted to McDaniels in his very first try as a HC. He made it all of eight games further in his first stop than Mike Shanahan did, working for a team every bit as dysfunctional, but on the opposite end of the spectrum, as Shanahan's first stop.

There's one problem with your argument.

Bowlen still owns the team, McDaniels is long gone. It's much easier for people to blame someone now departed from their precious Broncos than someone who is still with the team, even signing the checks.

And once again, this seems like as good a time as any to remind everyone that a Google search for "gutless drunk" still brings up the Mane as the #1 result.

baja
05-21-2012, 07:59 AM
Smith and Sharpe were Reeves and Philips pickups. Shanahan had successes (Portis, Gary, Anderson, Droughns, Lepsis, Hamilton, Neil, Pryce, Wilson, Kennedy, O'Neal, Gold, traded Portis for Bailey, the whole Browncos phenomenon). Alot of these players were solid or good and did whatever the coaching staff needed them to do.

The entire bolded paragraph is a joke, right?

I am not a fan of butchering former Bronco player names JUST to annoy someone. It's Cutler. It's Tebow. Find another way to get your disdain for that player across without resorting to name calling.


:Broncos:

Your talking a 14 year span here, when your list of successful acquisitions has at numbers 10, 11, 12 Kennedy, O'Neal and Gold than you are making the case of the guy you are arguing against.

What Shanny fans should be marveling at is how well Shanny the coach did considering the stiffs the horrible Shanny the GM brought in year after year

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2012, 09:59 AM
Hopefully Joe Ellis will be getting his day of reckoning soon. Come on John, make it happen. Let me taste your tears, Joe....I can't wait to see that douchebag on the unemployment line for what he did to Shanny.

Shanny did it to himself.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 10:01 AM
Shanny did it to himself.

LOL yeah Joe Ellis was the one mitigating factor in Shanahan's dismissal. What is with the revisionist history around here?

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2012, 10:04 AM
LOL yeah Joe Ellis was the one mitigating factor in Shanahan's dismissal. What is with the revisionist history around here?

Point being that Shanny's lack of playoff wins over an extended amount of time played a key role in him getting fired.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-21-2012, 10:08 AM
Point being that Shanny's lack of playoff wins over an extended amount of time played a key role in him getting fired.

That and the DC being a revolving door. Not to mention bringing over the entire Browns Dline.

Drek
05-21-2012, 10:12 AM
There's one problem with your argument.

Bowlen still owns the team, McDaniels is long gone. It's much easier for people to blame someone now departed from their precious Broncos than someone who is still with the team, even signing the checks.

And once again, this seems like as good a time as any to remind everyone that a Google search for "gutless drunk" still brings up the Mane as the #1 result.

I don't let what makes me feel better get in the way of the truth. Fact is Bowlen dropped the ball the minute he started listening to Ellis before everyone else in the room.

Instead of working with Shanahan and putting in a legitimate, experienced GM to take those duties of Shanahan, as well as requiring Slowik's head on a platter, he just dropped the best HC in Broncos history.

Instead of putting his new young HC talent in a good environment for personal growth he dropped everything in his lap and walked away.

Instead of repairing the bridge between an inexperienced, brash young HC and a hot tempered, soiled, petulant QB he lit the remnants on fire.

I could go on.

The team has gotten better because now there is a consistent hand at the wheel, even if I do think that Elway is still hit and miss as an executive. At least he's engaged and consistent.

LOL yeah Joe Ellis was the one mitigating factor in Shanahan's dismissal. What is with the revisionist history around here?
You don't think there was some outside influence that drove Bowlen, an admitted close personal friend of Shanahan's, to boot him out the door without trying any kind of conflict resolution/problem solving? The team had won a playoff game in '05. They had scuffled at .500 ever since but two of the three drafts since then had shown good signs of paying off. That isn't the time to pull the plug on the whole outfit. That is when you re-assess what isn't working.

The right thing for Bowlen to have done was pairing back Shanahan's front office duties, bring in a legitimate GM who could collaborate with Shanahan but give Mike final say (like he has in Washington), and then require Slowik's departure or demotion to DB coach, coupled with hiring Mike Nolan, a Bronco legacy who has legit DC credibility and a system that could work with our existing talent.

Bowlen doesn't recognize pre-Bowlen Broncos history so Nolan wasn't viewed as a legacy Bronco though. He also wasn't willing to have the tough talk to keep Shanahan around. Ownership failure opens the door for a lot of other ills.

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2012, 10:16 AM
Fact is that Bowlen had to fire Shanny. There's no way Shanny would have allowed at true GM to step in and take control of the draft, FA and the coaching staff. None.

Face it peeps, one of Shanny's biggest problems is his own ego.

baja
05-21-2012, 10:18 AM
I don't let what makes me feel better get in the way of the truth. Fact is Bowlen dropped the ball the minute he started listening to Ellis before everyone else in the room.

Instead of working with Shanahan and putting in a legitimate, experienced GM to take those duties of Shanahan, as well as requiring Slowik's head on a platter, he just dropped the best HC in Broncos history.

Instead of putting his new young HC talent in a good environment for personal growth he dropped everything in his lap and walked away.

Instead of repairing the bridge between an inexperienced, brash young HC and a hot tempered, soiled, petulant QB he lit the remnants on fire.

I could go on.

The team has gotten better because now there is a consistent hand at the wheel, even if I do think that Elway is still hit and miss as an executive. At least he's engaged and consistent.


You don't think there was some outside influence that drove Bowlen, an admitted close personal friend of Shanahan's, to boot him out the door without trying any kind of conflict resolution/problem solving? The team had won a playoff game in '05. They had scuffled at .500 ever since but two of the three drafts since then had shown good signs of paying off. That isn't the time to pull the plug on the whole outfit. That is when you re-assess what isn't working.

The right thing for Bowlen to have done was pairing back Shanahan's front office duties, bring in a legitimate GM who could collaborate with Shanahan but give Mike final say (like he has in Washington), and then require Slowik's departure or demotion to DB coach, coupled with hiring Mike Nolan, a Bronco legacy who has legit DC credibility and a system that could work with our existing talent.

Bowlen doesn't recognize pre-Bowlen Broncos history so Nolan wasn't viewed as a legacy Bronco though. He also wasn't willing to have the tough talk to keep Shanahan around. Ownership failure opens the door for a lot of other ills.

How do you know he didn't and Mike told him to go pound sand

Dr. Broncenstein
05-21-2012, 10:29 AM
That and the DC being a revolving door. Not to mention bringing over the entire Browns Dline.

I don't get the criticism of the Browncos moves. Courtney Brown and Gerrard Warren were certainly better than anything on the roster at the time, and it was the best post Elway season Shanny's had to date.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 10:40 AM
Fact is that Bowlen had to fire Shanny. There's no way Shanny would have allowed at true GM to step in and take control of the draft, FA and the coaching staff. None.

Face it peeps, one of Shanny's biggest problems is his own ego.

Agree. It's a well-known...well, I guess you couldn't call it a fact, exactly, so we'll say "perception"...so it's a well-known perception around the league that Shanahan has an ego.

Theoretically yes, the best possible option would be to try reining in Shanahan the GM, but as baja is saying, how do we know there wasn't an attempt? Hell, how do we know Shanahan's firing was a result of a year or two before that, Bowlen saying "look, we've had one playoff appearance since Elway. You can either keep going the route you're going, and if we don't start winning you're gone, or I can bring in a GM."

We'll never really know.

One thing I will say is that there is one constant behind all the **** for brains moves this team has made over the past 15 years. And it's not Shanahan. It's not McDaniels. It's not Tebow or Manning. It's not Elway, Fox, Xanders, or Ellis, or the Goodmans. It's not even Andre Goodman.

I'll give you one hint. He's been criticized for being lacking in the abdominal section, and may or may not be inebriated. He's also who I'll be holding responsible if this team doesn't win the Super Bowl. I think it's about time people realize what the real dysfunction is with this franchise, and do something about it.

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2012, 10:46 AM
Agree. It's a well-known...well, I guess you couldn't call it a fact, exactly, so we'll say "perception"...so it's a well-known perception around the league that Shanahan has an ego.

Theoretically yes, the best possible option would be to try reining in Shanahan the GM, but as baja is saying, how do we know there wasn't an attempt? Hell, how do we know Shanahan's firing was a result of a year or two before that, Bowlen saying "look, we've had one playoff appearance since Elway. You can either keep going the route you're going, and if we don't start winning you're gone, or I can bring in a GM."

We'll never really know.

One thing I will say is that there is one constant behind all the **** for brains moves this team has made over the past 15 years. And it's not Shanahan. It's not McDaniels. It's not Tebow or Manning. It's not Elway, Fox, Xanders, or Ellis, or the Goodmans. It's not even Andre Goodman.

I'll give you one hint. He's been criticized for being lacking in the abdominal section, and may or may not be inebriated. He's also who I'll be holding responsible if this team doesn't win the Super Bowl. I think it's about time people realize what the real dysfunction is with this franchise, and do something about it.

I agree 100%. Fact is Mike Shanahan controlled the Denver Broncos from top to bottom and this was a great comfort to Pat Scotch Bowlen. When Mike left, the team was without leadership and because Pat was either unwilling to hire a real GM or simply unable due to health issues, he let Ellis hire McD and then all hell broke loose.

So yes, blame falls entirely on Patty for his bad management. That being said, I'll cut him some slack because I do believe he's suffering from some chronic health issues AND he is the owner that hired Shanahan to begin with and got Elway his rings.

For all intents and purposes, Bowlen is a great owner. My criticism of him is that he was so reliant on Shanny for such a long time that he lost his capacity to make good football operation decisions. Well, now he's got Elway doing this for him. We shall see how John does...

Blueflame
05-21-2012, 02:35 PM
Josh McDaniels first year in Denver:
12th best defense by points, 7th best defense by yards allowed.

That after being 30th and 29th respectively the year before that, and 28/19 the year before that.

Since '09 we've been 32/32 in 2010 and 24/20 last year.

So yeah, the only time this defense has gotten above the bad to mediocre range post-Al Wilson was under McDaniels. Your argument that it wasn't even on his radar is completely invalid. Had there been a real power structure like Bowlen claimed he wanted we likely would never have seen the falling out between Nolan and McDaniels, meaning that the 2010 season could have built on the 2009 foundation.

Again we see how the entire problem was Bowlen's inability to manage his own team, deferring to Joe Ellis who has zero credentials on pro football personnel (coaches or players). Bowlen put the bean counter in charge and then watched the bean counter choose the lowest cost option at every turn (McDaniels cost less than Spags, Xanders was cheaper than Goodman & Goodman by simple merit of cutting two people instead of one, no big money FAs brought in period, shipped out both Cutler and Marshall due to contract demands).

Now Bowlen has appointed Elway as his steward and suddenly the team shows some signs of consistency. Crazy how that happened.

If Elway had replaced Shanahan as the VP of football ops after 2008 I'd bet a lot of the core hiring decisions would have still been the same (McDaniels, Nolan) but someone who actually knows football would have been around to mediate all issues. Someone with credibility with the fans and media. Instead everything was entrusted to McDaniels in his very first try as a HC. He made it all of eight games further in his first stop than Mike Shanahan did, working for a team every bit as dysfunctional, but on the opposite end of the spectrum, as Shanahan's first stop.

The point was... McDaniels chose not to focus on the true area of need (defense) and instead wasted resources on dismantling and rebuilding the offense... and then decided to micromanage Nolan instead of allowing him to run the defense... in short, on multiple occasions, McDaniels tried to "fix" what seemed to be working rather than to work on what wasn't.

Still... he might not have been fired if he hadn't brought in the guy responsible for Spygate I and II.

His tenure as HC in Denver and as OC for the Rams was (generally) viewed so negatively that it will likely be a while before he'll find anyone but the Pats interested in his services.

broncocalijohn
05-22-2012, 12:43 AM
Fact is that Bowlen had to fire Shanny. There's no way Shanny would have allowed at true GM to step in and take control of the draft, FA and the coaching staff. None.

Face it peeps, one of Shanny's biggest problems is his own ego.

Wasnt it noted that he would not get rid of Slowick and therefore that was one of the last conflicts betweeen owner/FO and Shanahan that ultimately got him **** canned? Shanny didn't do the job. Maybe he told Bowlen he would improve the team or else and else was being fired.

broncocalijohn
05-22-2012, 12:46 AM
I don't get the criticism of the Browncos moves. Courtney Brown and Gerrard Warren were certainly better than anything on the roster at the time, and it was the best post Elway season Shanny's had to date.

Me neither. Just because they came from a ****ty franchise doesn't mean they didnt help us out. We had some good games with that unit on the DLine. Yes it was funny at the time with the cute nickname but it actually helped us out.

lonestar
05-22-2012, 02:15 AM
Smith and Sharpe were Reeves and Philips pickups. Shanahan had successes (Portis, Gary, Anderson, Droughns, Lepsis, Hamilton, Neil, Pryce, Wilson, Kennedy, O'Neal, Gold, traded Portis for Bailey, the whole Browncos phenomenon). Alot of these players were solid or good and did whatever the coaching staff needed them to do.

The entire bolded paragraph is a joke, right?

I am not a fan of butchering former Bronco player names JUST to annoy someone. It's Cutler. It's Tebow. Find another way to get your disdain for that player across without resorting to name calling.


:Broncos:

While Rod and Sharpe were on the team when mikey got here he helped to develop them by getting them the ball in mismatches..
yes he amassed a lot of FA talent in FA infancy, but sustaining it he did not do..


As for teh bolded part, No it was not a joke.. He was one of the best if not the BEST OC to ever call in plays in DEN or for taht matter the NFL, he jsut did not know crap about Drafting talent or would get so enamoured with FA would overpay them and frankly are the intial batch of them, most of them failed

mikey did nothing for this team when it counted without 5-7 HOF type players..

Without John, TD, Sharpe, Zimmerman, Rod, Elam, and sevreal others he did SQUAT for DEN..

His defenses were piss poor, which frankly made no sense to me as he was a great OC someone that could disect a D and beat them.. Some one with that skill should have been able to reverse engineer it to make a D that no one could beat..

His team faded every stinking year after those aformention players retired. and even during those hey day seasons there s=was some fading down the stretch.. His teams were built to win early get leads and HOPE the D could hold on..

His playoff record stunk especially after that core team went away via FA, retirement ect.. ONE play off win for the rest of his career including IIRC while in WAS..

If we did get into the playoffs we got our ass handed to us by the real teams those that played solid football and did not rely on smoke and mirrors to win games..

As for your high horse on cutlet sounds to me like you had a little bromance going on..

lonestar
05-22-2012, 02:23 AM
Your talking a 14 year span here, when your list of successful acquisitions has at numbers 10, 11, 12 Kennedy, O'Neal and Gold than you are making the case of the guy you are arguing against.

What Shanny fans should be marveling at is how well Shanny the coach did considering the stiffs the horrible Shanny the GM brought in year after year

to many fans are jsut basing everything on sheer wins..

YEt the fail to acknowledge when we won some of the games it down tot eh wire with Elam saving mikeys ass or it was a blowout for some weak kneed team.. ad then there were all of those ass kickings in the playoffs.

mikey was briliant at smoke and mirrors because the talent level he wound up with is scary..

colonelbeef
05-22-2012, 06:18 AM
Shanahan is turning around the REdskins in the toughest division in football, and is still a far better coach than anything Denver has hired since his dismissal.

baja
05-22-2012, 07:01 AM
Shanahan is turning around the REdskins in the toughest division in football, and is still a far better coach than anything Denver has hired since his dismissal.

He also has a very good GM in Washington something that would have made a huge difference here.

houghtam
05-22-2012, 07:41 AM
Shanahan is turning around the REdskins in the toughest division in football, and is still a far better coach than anything Denver has hired since his dismissal.

6-10

5-11

Yep, he's sure turning them around.

broncocalijohn
05-22-2012, 10:49 AM
Shanahan is turning around the REdskins in the toughest division in football, and is still a far better coach than anything Denver has hired since his dismissal.

Is this sarcasm? I know you were royally pissed about Shanahan being fired but good grief, time might have passed Shanny. He hasn't exactly been blazing the NFC East since his arrival. He has put all his hopes on his new QB.

McD more rings than Elway
05-22-2012, 08:31 PM
6-10

5-11

Yep, he's sure turning them around.

It was a four win team when he took over. Not Shanahan's fault Vinny Cerrato created a turd.

SoCalBronco
05-22-2012, 08:39 PM
Fact is that Bowlen had to fire Shanny. There's no way Shanny would have allowed at true GM to step in and take control of the draft, FA and the coaching staff. None.

Face it peeps, one of Shanny's biggest problems is his own ego.

That's one problem....a bigger problem was that the old man spent on average around 20th in the league and he somehow got pissed that in Shanny's last 3 years he only performed up to around the 16th team in the league.

Broncobiv
05-22-2012, 08:44 PM
So Shanny entered after a 4 win season, and has since compiled 6 and 5 win campaigns. One of these years, he's bound to hit .500! By then, can we consider that he has "turned things around" (or wait, has he already)? Because so far, he hasn't done ****.

One good thing about these crappy seasons - all of those top-10 draft picks are bound to make an impact! A few more of those and Shanny will surely be able to "turn things around." Oh wait...he just traded the farm for RGIII and doesn't have a first round pick for what, the next 2 years? D'oh!

lonestar
05-23-2012, 03:54 PM
Shanahan is turning around the REdskins in the toughest division in football, and is still a far better coach than anything Denver has hired since his dismissal.

Shirley you jest..

lonestar
05-23-2012, 04:00 PM
So Shanny entered after a 4 win season, and has since compiled 6 and 5 win campaigns. One of these years, he's bound to hit .500! By then, can we consider that he has "turned things around" (or wait, has he already)? Because so far, he hasn't done ****.

One good thing about these crappy seasons - all of those top-10 draft picks are bound to make an impact! A few more of those and Shanny will surely be able to "turn things around." Oh wait...he just traded the farm for RGIII and doesn't have a first round pick for what, the next 2 years? D'oh!

you hae to remember that you can never argue with a fool because they have more experience and will beat you every time..

mikey was a great OC called a hell of a game through about week 13 or so and then everyone had his number..

as for being a HC ahahahahahahahahaha
as for being a wanna be GM there are not words cruel enough to get that point across..

If he would have had a professional experienced GM like they had in BAL, PIT, NE, GB who would have hired a REAL DC this team could not have been beaten..

McD more rings than Elway
01-17-2014, 12:51 AM
Josh McDaniels is my coach.

He's my coach too:-(

TheElusiveKyleOrton
01-17-2014, 06:13 AM
He's my coach too:-(

Real curious why the mods let this **** from a shoe hang around.

Miss I.
01-17-2014, 06:20 AM
Memories..oh the memories. the horror, the horror. i forgot I promised I'd leave because someone called me a "c" for posting videos that evidently no longer exist. Hilarious in hindsight. I've since developed a tougher skin and a hatred for Josh McDaniels that I did not have at the time. My disgust about McDaniels now is on par with my Raider hatred. Still I could have lived without the bumping of this thread. Oh well, I will own I was wrong about Josh. I hoped for the best, I got the worst.

Raidersbane
01-17-2014, 06:23 AM
The best thing to do here is ignore this thread............its pure troll food!

Karenin
01-17-2014, 07:48 AM
Real curious why the mods let this **** from a shoe hang around.

Because the mods here are garbage and don't do anything useful.

Kaylore
01-17-2014, 07:54 AM
The worst part of this thread necro is seeing Lonestar posts again.

BroncoBuff
01-17-2014, 01:47 PM
This bump should actually be embarrassing for the McDMore Pats guy.

After all, Elway's rings came without the assist of videotape. And John cleaned up Josh's hella-mess here pretty quickly, can't argue that. And it appears the Browns prefer Adam Gase over Josh for their coaching vacancy, too, so ... not.a.great.bump.








"Mr. President, we need as many men as you can spare, cause we are killing the Patriots."

CHEF LUIGI
01-17-2014, 01:54 PM
JMCD is one of the ten worst things to ever happen to this ORG.
including the demolition of the original mile high and the murder of darrent williams.
JMCD falls somewhere in between.

BroncsCheer
01-17-2014, 02:34 PM
McDaniels reminds me of that short toad that hangs around with Scutt Farkas in the alley waiting to bully Ralph Parker, and his brother and buddies.

Belichick = Scutt Farkas of course

Punisher
01-17-2014, 02:40 PM
http://www.joshmcdanielssucks.com/t-shirts/

Classic

Taco John
01-17-2014, 02:48 PM
The worst part of this thread necro is seeing Lonestar posts again.

"thread necro"

I like that...

ColoradoDarin
01-17-2014, 02:54 PM
This message is hidden because McD more rings is 18-1*

Punisher
01-17-2014, 02:57 PM
This message is hidden because McD more rings is 18-1*

18-1 best record evha (Bhosthin Voice)

cutthemdown
01-17-2014, 03:04 PM
I think McDaniels knows a lot about how to design plays that look exactly alike but aren't.

IE running plays and passing plays look the same and don't give off a lot of indicators to the defense. He can run the same play from a lot of different formations and he is good at attacking what a defense is worst at.

In denver i feel his talent evaluation seemed pretty good by the time it all worked out. He drafted some good players.

But in the leadership department he had not found himself yet. He was too young and too eager to prove himself at all costs. He seemed to pick fights and want to break players down no matter what it meant to his relationship with them down the road.

Gutless Drunk
01-17-2014, 03:04 PM
He's a hard guy not to like, despite a few things that he makes me nervous on. But at the end of the day, he seems to have the respect and attention of the team. They seem to respond to him, as evidenced by the hot start and that last great game. But the bottom line is that I could see us winning a Superbowl in the next 5 years behind him.

Nailed it!

cutthemdown
01-17-2014, 03:05 PM
I think his career is arcing somewhat like Shannahans did. At some point he will be a head coach again.

Heyneck
01-17-2014, 03:16 PM
Good coordinator, ****ty HC and he can go...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/LxKkbs1y1Oc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ak1971
01-17-2014, 05:29 PM
We should pay Peyton Hillis to go bang his wife again while hes out of town...and put 60 on them

McDman
01-17-2014, 05:44 PM
I've always been a fan, but he's not perfect. I think he's gonna put together a good team in the next couple of years.

God damnit.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
01-17-2014, 05:58 PM
He's my coach too:-(

im sorry but new england had to take back that garbage we got from them he was still under warranty.
but thank mcdumbass for the exciting but not very good at being a THROWING qb Tebow.

TomServo
01-18-2014, 02:02 AM
I think his career is arcing somewhat like Shannahans did. At some point he will be a head coach again
Total Horse sh it. he cant coach, he cant draft. that leaves?.....
he wanted mattt cassel over cutler? Cutler sucks, but cassel? look at cleveland or oakland or the other cellar dwellars. every bust coach has some good draft picks. McD picked some good picks but Go d amn how many #1's did he piss away?

TomServo
01-18-2014, 02:06 AM
aaaand sorry if I missed the sarcasm

B-Large
01-18-2014, 07:25 AM
I would say feelings toward the guy are leaning hetero.... But could easily swing homo...


He was my favorite