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View Full Version : What's Your Take on Knowshon?


Rohirrim
12-01-2009, 08:24 AM
Bust or superstar, or something in between? Put down your take for posterity.

I'm voting "future star." ;D

Meck77
12-01-2009, 08:31 AM
Taco's been talking him down to average or even bust status so based on that alone you can bet the kid will be a superstar!

I think people forget that the kid is just a rookie and he's going to make some mistakes.

He'll rack up 1,200 next year. Easy.

jhns
12-01-2009, 08:34 AM
I think he will be very good. He is a patient runner that follows his blockers. He hits the hole hard and breaks tackles. People also talk about how he is a good blocker but I haven't watched much of that. This all adds up to a good RB. He just needs to continue getting better like he has been.

Doggcow
12-01-2009, 08:35 AM
Star, hopefully the naysayers vote as they are, so we can use this to prosecute them later!

Doggcow
12-01-2009, 08:36 AM
I think he will be very good. He is a patient runner that follows his blockers. He hits the hole hard and breaks tackles. People also talk about how he is a good blocker but I haven't watched much of that. This all adds up to a good RB. He just needs to continue getting better like he has been.

Broken tackles are nice to see! Mike Bell still doesn't know how to do anything but run at deep safeties when brees pulls them out of the box every down.

azbroncfan
12-01-2009, 08:37 AM
Good solid back, not HOF but a good solid back for 5-6 years.

Rohirrim
12-01-2009, 08:37 AM
What I've been noticing as the season has gone on is that his decision making and "quicks" have improved. He sees the hole earlier now than he has in the past and he hits it with much more speed and authority. I put that in Bobby Turner's column. The next level is when Knowshon starts doing this all out of instinct, without thought. Then, IMO, he explodes.

SoDak Bronco
12-01-2009, 08:38 AM
Hardworking and a Tough runner. He has all the tools to be very very good.

DrFate
12-01-2009, 08:44 AM
He has some tools, but he puts the ball on the ground far too often right now. We'll see how the fickle hand of fate treats him.

peacepipe
12-01-2009, 08:48 AM
He has alot of potential, he's no clinton Portis,but he could end up being a above avg RB. If he is lucky, he may break a 1,000 yds this season maybe 1,100. His main problem is he's a fumbler.

strafen
12-01-2009, 08:54 AM
Star, hopefully the naysayers vote as they are, so we can use this to prosecute them later!The bottom line is that if he was the star everybody here says he is, he would've shown that already.
We're still waiting. Call me when that happens, would ya'?

The guy gets more free passes for his fumbles than Cutler does in Chicago for his INT's...ROFL!

cmhargrove
12-01-2009, 08:55 AM
He has the tools, is a self driven hard worker, and he has shown continual progress throughout the year.

Also, the coaches are giving him every chance to succeed.

I think he gets better for at least the next two seasons as we continue to get bigger on the O-line. He should top out as a 1,500 yard rusher with about 300-400 yards receiving. Any player that can push 2,000 yards of total production is pretty damn good in my book.

Mountain Bronco
12-01-2009, 08:56 AM
Solid back, not a super star though, but not a bust.

dbfan21
12-01-2009, 09:03 AM
What I've been noticing as the season has gone on is that his decision making and "quicks" have improved. He sees the hole earlier now than he has in the past and he hits it with much more speed and authority. I put that in Bobby Turner's column. The next level is when Knowshon starts doing this all out of instinct, without thought. Then, IMO, he explodes.

This is exactly what I was going to say. His vision has improved dramatically. The work in practice with Turner is starting to pay dividends.

Broncos123
12-01-2009, 09:08 AM
I see him ready to break a few long ones. He has been close to doing that the past few weeks. He has been getting better every week. He needs to break one when we need it.

Tombstone RJ
12-01-2009, 09:09 AM
Knowshon needs to be used in the right way and I think McD is finally understanding this. He needs to be involved in the offense early and often, establish the run with him and then untilize his talents ala Marshall Faulk.

Not sure why McD doesn't "get it."

Natedog24
12-01-2009, 09:10 AM
Not quite a Star, but not just an average back either. I don't think he bounce around the NFL from team to team either, I think he'll be a Bronco for most of his career. Just a solid, above average runningback.

ColoradoBuff
12-01-2009, 09:12 AM
He will be a great, great RB for years to come. An all around good running back...we have just seen glimpses of what this young man can/will do for the Broncos!

Taco John
12-01-2009, 09:16 AM
I don't know what he'll be in the future, but to date he's been an inconsistent back who has struggled on third downs, short yardage situations, and also on the goal line. His last three games have shown marked improvement, however. His touchdown on third and 1 this past week was impressive because he had to weave through short yardage traffic to make it happen. And more, he's finally finding open field and breaking off 20+ yard runs. He may be headed for his first career 100 yard game this upcoming week against the Chiefs - they give up an average of 135 per game. He hasn't had the performances or consistency that other first round backs in recent years have had, but he's shown glimpses of that potential.

strafen
12-01-2009, 09:17 AM
He'll be like Ricky Williams minus the weed...
Once the hype wears off, and bounces around a team or two, he'll be a serviceable back...
A Selvyn Young type back...

mhgaffney
12-01-2009, 09:19 AM
Knowshon's biggest problem is McDaniels. When did the Pats ever have a running game?

Doggcow
12-01-2009, 09:21 AM
He'll be like Ricky Williams minus the weed...
Once the hype wears off, and bounces around a team or two, he'll be a serviceable back...
A Selvyn Young type back...

Who is Selvyn Young? Never heard of him.

Archer81
12-01-2009, 09:24 AM
He has some tools, but he puts the ball on the ground far too often right now. We'll see how the fickle hand of fate treats him.


Adrian Peterson has 15 fumbles that last two seasons. 4 is not great, but it could be alot worse.


:Broncos:

RunSilentRunDeep
12-01-2009, 09:24 AM
You tell the league he's coming. And he's bringing Hell with him!

go_broncos
12-01-2009, 09:25 AM
He is OK..But, Hillis is much better in Short yardage situations.

loborugger
12-01-2009, 09:25 AM
If he quits fumbling, I believe he can live up to his billing as a #1 draft pick. He works hard, has a good attitude, has good size and strength, so there is no reason he cant be productive for our franchise for a number of years.

Archer81
12-01-2009, 09:26 AM
Knowshon's biggest problem is McDaniels. When did the Pats ever have a running game?


The last two seasons?


Last season Pats ran it 513 times for 2278 yards and 21 tds. In 2007, 451 times for 1848 yards and 17tds.


:Broncos:

Tombstone RJ
12-01-2009, 09:26 AM
When Knowshon runs in the power formation with Larsen in front lead blocking, he does get the tuff yards. Also, I noticed that when he runs out of the backfield in a single back formation, he's better running off tackle to the outside where he's speed, power and talent are highlighted.

If I was McD, if I wasn't in shotgun with Orton, I'd run almost all plays out of the single back set with Knowshon. I'd keep the defenses guessing on how the Broncos are going to utilize Knowshon (is it a run up the middle, a run to the outside or playaction?).

BMarsh615
12-01-2009, 09:32 AM
He was my favorite back in the draft. He may not be a homerun hitter like Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson, but he grinds out tough yards and refuses to go down easily. He gives the Broncos a spark kind of like Peyton Hillis did last year with how hard he runs. I think he will be a star and is just now getting into a nice rhythm.

Tombstone RJ
12-01-2009, 09:37 AM
A lot of posters here act like Knowshon has reached his potential, that is, he's not gonna get any better.

I really don't understand this perception. He's a rookie, he's doing well and he has a lot of room to grow in this system.

IMHO, he's gonna get better. Posters need to be a little more patient with the guy...

listopencil
12-01-2009, 09:38 AM
Knowshon's biggest problem is McDaniels. When did the Pats ever have a running game?

This.

listopencil
12-01-2009, 09:39 AM
The last two seasons?


Last season Pats ran it 513 times for 2278 yards and 21 tds. In 2007, 451 times for 1848 yards and 17tds.


:Broncos:


...and what were the stats for their passing game?

Paladin
12-01-2009, 09:53 AM
Moreno reminds me of Eddie George. He is a pounding, punishing runner, and slashes at the LOS. Occassional longer runs of 20+, but always chugging for yards. Hard nosed tunner with 12-1500 yards a year. He's gonna be a good player for 4-5 years more.....

Despite the charge of "dropsies", he does not have a fumble problem. AP has a fumbling problem.....

chrisp
12-01-2009, 10:01 AM
A lot of posters here act like Knowshon has reached his potential, that is, he's not gonna get any better.

I really don't understand this perception. He's a rookie, he's doing well and he has a lot of room to grow in this system.

IMHO, he's gonna get better. Posters need to be a little more patient with the guy...

I think we're just spoiled - we have unreal expectations at both the RB and the QB position so any player who suits up there for us needs to dominate utterly to have any hope of being considered acceptable.....I mean a young kid playing hard, learning, growing, NOT being 100% right out of the blocks, why, there's NO room for that at all.....

All those guys we drafted in the later rounds (portis, TD, Anderson) performed as well or better than you would expect a 1st round pick to, but we somehow expect Knowshon to do that much better than those guys becuase he was drafted higher...sorry, it doesn't work that way...

chex
12-01-2009, 10:02 AM
Knowshon's biggest problem is McDaniels. When did the Pats ever have a running game?

Besides last year when the Patriots were 6th in the league in rushing?

Or the year before that when they were 13th despite having the top ranked passing game?

DenverBound
12-01-2009, 10:05 AM
**** these guys...

BABronco, bronclvr, dragster69, DrewB, hades

Old Dude
12-01-2009, 10:10 AM
Above average, but I don't see him as a superstar or as a guy who will ever dominate a game against any kind of quality competition. I have to admit that I'm just a little disappointed for someone taken so high in the draft. But at least he's not a bust.

He does have room for improvement, so we'll see how things come along.

jutang
12-01-2009, 10:13 AM
I like how Knowshon is progressing. He's starting to read his blocks much better. The goaline score being a classic example and is really picking up the cutback lanes on those sweeps in the Giants game. Orton still seems to have to point to Knowshon on where to block. I really wish he would have broken for a 100 yrd game, but with this brutal schedule expectations have to be tempered. I don't think he'll be an elite back, but somewhere in the top 5-10.

strafen
12-01-2009, 10:14 AM
He was my favorite back in the draft. He may not be a homerun hitter like Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson, but he grinds out tough yards and refuses to go down easily. He gives the Broncos a spark kind of like Peyton Hillis did last year with how hard he runs. I think he will be a star and is just now getting into a nice rhythm.What kind of delusional BS comment is that?
He gives us a spark like Hillis did?
WTH are you smoking?
Hillis got going on all cylinders from the get go.
We're still waiting on Moreno to have an impact in any game yet this season.
Yes, we just need to ignore his 4 fumbles. Those are insignificant because we want to believe that.
We just need to overlook the facts when it comes down to Moreno
You guys are acting just like the Chicago Bears.

Not wanting to see reality, not wanting to see Moreno is not the back everybody thought we were getting, now all you numbskulls are trying to come up with stupid delusional comments to make believe that what you hear is not true, that what you hear is retarded, that what you hear are not from true fans, that what you hear are from Moreno haters! Hilarious!

chex
12-01-2009, 10:14 AM
Above average, but I don't see him as a superstar or as a guy who will ever dominate a game against any kind of quality competition. I have to admit that I'm just a little disappointed for someone taken so high in the draft. But at least he's not a bust.
He does have room for improvement, so we'll see how things come along.

This.

I thought we'd see a little more production at this point, but I'm confident he'll continue to improve.

strafen
12-01-2009, 10:18 AM
**** these guys...

BABronco, bronclvr, dragster69, DrewB, hadesHey, if there was an option for Moreno to be in the Hall Of Fame, I would've done that. I just voted for the second best option :thumbsup:

Let the witchhunt begin! LOL

underrated29
12-01-2009, 10:18 AM
The bottom line is that if he was the star everybody here says he is, he would've shown that already.
We're still waiting. Call me when that happens, would ya'?

The guy gets more free passes for his fumbles than Cutler does in Chicago for his INT's...ROFL!

Its impossible to see when josh has only 3 run plays. I have been saying it all year long that the reason we lose is because our run game is so predictable.

guard pull/trap to the left, to the right and a sweep. Our OL doesnt work that way. They were built for ZBS. He says we play to our players strengths, except for that.


Now, the games that he has used both, or calls more than the 3 run plays. A few counters, tosses, FB lead block, etc. we have run the ball extremely well.

Like the giants game for ex.



Remember this is a new scheme for the OL, the RB, the QB, the WR. Everyone. Yet, we still see 8 or more in the box all the time. Despite this Knowshon is still eating defenses alive when they dont know the play thats coming. Which up until about 2 weeks ago they did.


He will be a major player in the league, and if we could throw him a few more screens he could do a whole lot more damage. But lets let the rook and the rest of the team get a year under their belt in the new system first.

chex
12-01-2009, 10:21 AM
What kind of delusional BS comment is that?
He gives us a spark like Hillis did?
WTH are you smoking?
Hillis got going on all cylinders from the get go.
We're still waiting on Moreno to have an impact in any game yet this season.
Yes, we just need to ignore his 4 fumbles. Those are insignificant because we want to believe that.
We just need to overlook the facts when it comes down to Moreno
You guys are acting just like the Chicago Bears.

Not wanting to see reality, not wanting to see Moreno is not the back everybody thought we were getting, now all you numbskulls are trying to come up with stupid delusional comments to make believe that what you hear is not true, that what you hear is retarded, that what you hear are not from true fans, that what you hear are from Moreno haters! Hilarious!
Dude, relax.

Moreno is 13th in rushing, despite being 18th in attempts. Hes a rookie whos getting better. The fumbles suck, but its not like this kid is Blair Thomas. Give the b****ing a rest for a change.

Drek
12-01-2009, 10:21 AM
Still reminds me of Tiki Barber with superior size and strength. Tiki didn't set the league on fire from day one, and had his fumbling issues, but that rare agility and lateral quickness was on display, as was the versatility of his skill set. Moreno needs to keep working to get better like Barber did throughout his career, but if he does and avoids serious injuries he could be a real special player.

underrated29
12-01-2009, 10:29 AM
What kind of delusional BS comment is that?
.
We're still waiting on Moreno to have an impact in any game yet this season.

We just need to overlook the facts when it comes down to Moreno
You guys are acting just like the Chicago Bears.

Not wanting to see reality, not wanting to see Moreno is not the back everybody thought we were getting, now all you numbskulls are trying to come up with stupid delusional comments to make believe that what you hear is not true, that what you hear is retarded, that what you hear are not from true fans, that what you hear are from Moreno haters! Hilarious!



Lets not forget we have faced most of the top 10 teams in rush defense this year.



But seriously, no impact in a game.


What are you smoking dude? Have you watched a bronco game once this year. Maybe the fact that Knowshon Lead the league (or close to it, but i think its the league) in rushing 3rd down conversions. Or maybe the fact that on his legs we have sustained long drives and kept opposing offenses off the field.


I suppose the only impact you see is the ed reed hit, the blown td call, or his two other fumbles. You probably dont see the Pepsi offensive rookie of the week 3 times or another nominee this week.


NOpe, you are just pissed off that the broncos didnt buy into the media hype that we would trade up for a QB like sanchez.


I called the knowshon pick. You can go over to BM of BF and see my posts about it. Because I knew he would be the best player for us at that draft spot. (also didnt want the bolts to get him). And even if we didnt take him at 12 and took freeman and then knowshon instead of defense i would still not think he is terrible. Yes, i would not have been happy to ignore defense again. But saying anything other than Knowshon right now is an above average back with room to get a whole whole lot better is plain lunacy.

Beantown Bronco
12-01-2009, 10:30 AM
I think he's poised for a HUGE December as long as he doesn't hit the "rookie wall."

He's performed well against the #1, 3, 6, 9, and 11th ranked rush defenses. He won't have to worry about that so much this month with 2 games against KC and one against Oakland, two of the league's worst rush defenses.

BMarsh615
12-01-2009, 10:33 AM
Not wanting to see reality, not wanting to see Moreno is not the back everybody thought we were getting, now all you numbskulls are trying to come up with stupid delusional comments to make believe that what you hear is not true, that what you hear is retarded, that what you hear are not from true fans, that what you hear are from Moreno haters! Hilarious!

He is getting better as the season goes on. I was not very impressed with him early in the season, but the past couple weeks he has shown flashes and last week he played a very good game. He does give this team a spark with the way he runs. He seems to have a nose for the first down marker and is always dragging a defender past that line.

Yeah he had 4 fumbles. The Baltimore fumble was a fumble most backs would have and I am not really sure he fumbled against San Diego. He never had fumbling issues in college and he won't have problems with them as his career goes on.

Rohirrim
12-01-2009, 10:33 AM
I think he's poised for a HUGE December as long as he doesn't hit the "rookie wall."

He's performed well against the #1, 3, 6, 9, and 11th ranked rush defenses. He won't have to worry about that so much this month with 2 games against KC and one against Oakland, two of the league's worst rush defenses.

That's what I'm thinking, which is why I posted this poll. It starts this Sunday. I'm thinking Knowshon blows up the Chiefs.

_Oro_
12-01-2009, 10:49 AM
He'll be like Ricky Williams minus the weed...
Once the hype wears off, and bounces around a team or two, he'll be a serviceable back...
A Selvyn Young type back...

this comment just earned ignore status

Broncomutt
12-01-2009, 10:50 AM
I haven't really been impressed being he's our first draft choice and the fumbles have been killer. Taco called him "Tatum" Moreno and at this point that's not a bad comparison. He's got some quickness but he fumbles and doesn't strike me as a consistent "move the chains" type of player. Third and inches he hasn't done much, although in fairness, I don't think that he should be in on those downs anyway. How many TDs does he have? Two?

Having said all that I do trust in the staff's ability to evaluate talent and would definitely like to see how he does in his second year. He's got enough potential I think and has started to look like he's finishing runs stronger. I can definitely envinsion him playing alot better and stronger.

For now I'd give him a C+, and with a third of the season left to play, there is still plenty of time to improve on that.

chex
12-01-2009, 11:03 AM
I haven't really been impressed being he's our first draft choice and the fumbles have been killer. Taco called him "Tatum" Moreno and at this point that's not a bad comparison. He's got some quickness but he fumbles and doesn't strike me as a consistent "move the chains" type of player. Third and inches he hasn't done much, although in fairness, I don't think that he should be in on those downs anyway. How many TDs does he have? Two?

Having said all that I do trust in the staff's ability to evaluate talent and would definitely like to see how he does in his second year. He's got enough potential I think and has started to look like he's finishing runs stronger. I can definitely envinsion him playing alot better and stronger.

For now I'd give him a C+, and with a third of the season left to play, there is still plenty of time to improve on that.

He's tied for 10th in the league with 39 first down conversions.

WolfpackGuy
12-01-2009, 11:03 AM
I wasn't really a big fan of picking a running back at 12, but I think he'll be fine.

Not sure if you can call him Tiki Barber though.

Barber had 53 fumbles, including 4 seasons of at least 8 before Coughlin arrived in NY.

outdoor_miner
12-01-2009, 11:11 AM
I think he's poised for a HUGE December as long as he doesn't hit the "rookie wall."

He's performed well against the #1, 3, 6, 9, and 11th ranked rush defenses. He won't have to worry about that so much this month with 2 games against KC and one against Oakland, two of the league's worst rush defenses.

I sometimes forget what a brutal schedule we have faced this year, and how impressive it is that we are where we are. I remember reading some Fantasy Football sites before the year, and people were cautioning about drafting Moreno too high. It wasn't due to his skills or lack thereof (as almost everyone thought he was the best back in the draft), but rather due to the quality run defenses we would be playing this year.

I have to admit that I was starting to get concerned with his abilities a few weeks ago. I just didn't see the "burst"/explosion that I expected from the 12th pick in the draft. The last 3 weeks (fumbling aside), he has really started to run with authority. I'm not sure if he'll ever be "the best back in the league", but I'm starting to believe that he will be a Pro Bowl caliber player. It will be interesting to see these last 5 games... Like you said, he should have some opportunities to really shine. The Eagles are the only rush defense that's in the Top 10.

rastaman
12-01-2009, 11:17 AM
Bust or superstar, or something in between? Put down your take for posterity.

I'm voting "future star." ;D

I'm going to go out on the limb and say Moreno won't be a bust nor will he be a Superstar and will not see too many Pro Bowl selections. Moreno will be a solid performer for McD as the rest of the RB's are for NE. To be a superstar you must be in a featured role where you are one of the main features on the team. RB's in NE's system and more than likely in McD's system are not required to play those roles.

Now if you ask me would Moreno be a pro bowl back running if he was running in a zone blocking I-formation--lead FB scheme, then I would be more incline to say yes.

I foreone believe Moreno is the closet comparison to TD to a degree. But as TD benefitted from a zone blocking I-formation running scheme with Griffin as the lead blocking FB that resulted with TD gaining 1,536, 1,753, and 2008 rushing yards. Moreno with a lead blocking FB as in (Hillis & Larson) could have seasons that mirror TD's and Griffens accomplishments.

oubronco
12-01-2009, 11:35 AM
Hell I don't know but I hope he busts off 200 this week

cartel
12-01-2009, 11:47 AM
he's got all-pro potential as soon as everything slows down for him. it has already started, showing good patience in the hole. he's over anxious looking for the big play, but he's one step away. he just needs more time. i am pumped about moreno, barring injury, he will be our horse for 5-7 yrs.

rastaman
12-01-2009, 11:47 AM
He is getting better as the season goes on. I was not very impressed with him early in the season, but the past couple weeks he has shown flashes and last week he played a very good game. He does give this team a spark with the way he runs. He seems to have a nose for the first down marker and is always dragging a defender past that line.

Yeah he had 4 fumbles. The Baltimore fumble was a fumble most backs would have and I am not really sure he fumbled against San Diego. He never had fumbling issues in college and he won't have problems with them as his career goes on.

Hopefully Moreno corrects the fumbles. However, what concerns is historically the stud RB's who have run mostly out of the single back field-shotgun, have noticebly worn down and become injury plagued due to the punishment they take. The same will happen to Moreno.

RB's who have run from an I-formation with a lead FB blocking for them have fared better and had longer careers b/c the FB helps to negate the initial punnishment the TB would be subject to b/c the FB takes on the initial tackler that breaks thru the point of attack.

As a result of the FB's initial block in conjunction with the O line blocking, teams can't tee-off on the RB. You add in zone blocking as well and oppossing Defenses must watch their gaps and can't tee-off on the RB's as well.

So if anyone wants to see a return to the greatest running attack in recent memory as we saw with TD-Griffen era; put Moreno in the zone blocking
I-formation w/ a lead FB and watch the offense become more consistent and efficient.

TonyR
12-01-2009, 11:50 AM
We're still waiting on Moreno to have an impact in any game yet this season.


Maybe you're still waiting but those of us who understand football a little bit know what a preposterously stupid comment this is. For starters, watch the highlights of the Broncos' most recent game and tell me with a straight face that Moreno didn't have an impact.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=87237

rastaman
12-01-2009, 11:54 AM
Maybe you're still waiting but those of us who understand football a little bit know what a preposterously stupid comment this is. For starters, watch the highlights of the Broncos' most recent game and tell me with a straight face that Moreno didn't have an impact.

Do you not understand which formation Moreno would be most effective in. It sure isn't in the single back alignment thats for sure. The singleback/shot gun formation will wear out a RB before its time.

BroncoBen
12-01-2009, 11:55 AM
I watched Moreno his entire career at Georgia, and even there he was not a homerun hitter, which means he didn't break off long runs for TDs.

The NFL is much faster than College, so for Moreno a 100 yard game is having a great game.

Moreno is a chain mover, right now he is concentrating on not fumbling the ball that its effecting his moves.

But he will get better.

rastaman
12-01-2009, 11:59 AM
he's got all-pro potential as soon as everything slows down for him. it has already started, showing good patience in the hole. he's over anxious looking for the big play, but he's one step away. he just needs more time. i am pumped about moreno, barring injury, he will be our horse for 5-7 yrs.

Cartel, I don't know if you recall Moreno's long run he had last week of 50 plus yards, but Moreno got the run out of the I - formation with Larsen providing the key block as the blocking FB. Larsons block allowed Moreno just enough space to allude the next would be tackler and it was off to the races for Moreno.

Call me overly optimistic here.....but that was enough convincing for me what running formation Moreno would be most effective with. You put Moreno in a single backfield scheme...he's a mediocre RB and doesn't perform as the first round pick.

rastaman
12-01-2009, 12:00 PM
I watched Moreno his entire career at Georgia, and even there he was not a homerun hitter, which means he didn't break off long runs for TDs.

The NFL is much faster than College, so for Moreno a 100 yard game is having a great game.

Moreno is a chain mover, right now he is concentrating on not fumbling the ball that its effecting his moves.

But he will get better.

I watched a few of his games at Georgia as well and saw how effective he was running with a lead FB. I don't remember the FB's name however, but the results don't lie.

azbroncfan
12-01-2009, 12:06 PM
Knowshon's biggest problem is McDaniels. When did the Pats ever have a running game?

Hmm have you really watched the Pats much other than undefeated season? That was really the only super nintendo offense.

OBF1
12-01-2009, 12:11 PM
He is not what I would have hoped for for the 1st RB picked in the draft at #12. His production so far screams 3 or 4th rounder on a decent team.

Crushaholic
12-01-2009, 12:14 PM
Sunday's game will feature two running backs who will shine in the next couple of years - Knowshon Moreno and Jamaal Charles. The offensive line, believe it or not, is currently going through some growing pains. Once they get the scheme figured out, they will be opening a lot more holes for Moreno...

cartel
12-01-2009, 12:22 PM
Cartel, I don't know if you recall Moreno's long run he had last week of 50 plus yards, but Moreno got the run out of the I - formation with Larsen providing the key block as the blocking FB. Larsons block allowed Moreno just enough space to allude the next would be tackler and it was off to the races for Moreno.

Call me overly optimistic here.....but that was enough convincing for me what running formation Moreno would be most effective with. You put Moreno in a single backfield scheme...he's a mediocre RB and doesn't perform as the first round pick.

if you can make a graph with i formations and singleback, i might believe you. either you have good vision or you don't, i believe he does. it's always like this with high picks, he's a rookie, give him time to develop. as he develops, he'll be effective with or without a lead blocker.

OBF1
12-01-2009, 12:27 PM
After watching the milehigh highlights on another thread, I have to change my opinion a little of Knowshon. He does a very unique style of running.... He has the biggest arm pump I can remember seeing in a running back. He is alot more elusive than I thought. Once our line figures out how be perform like the old ZB scheme, I think Moreno and our running game is going to be fine.

~Crash~
12-01-2009, 12:51 PM
He has gotten better each week and you can tell he is going to get better for atleast on more year he is damn young.

Mr.Meanie
12-01-2009, 12:55 PM
He has been the best RB of the draft so far. It's very very rare to get an AP or Chris Johnson. Some people's expectations are ridiculous.

He has been what I was expecting, and he's showing constant improvement. If he can stay healthy I would say he'll have a really good career.

jhat01
12-01-2009, 12:56 PM
I think he'll be a top shelf back for many years.

fontaine
12-01-2009, 12:57 PM
the best thing about Moreno is that the guy runs with a real mean lean forward. It doesnt' matter who's trying to tackle him the guy literally is pushing forward with his legs churning to get every last inch.

Gotta admire that drive.

gyldenlove
12-01-2009, 01:03 PM
Moreno looks a hell of a lot better out there with a FB lead blocking for him. He looked a bit lost in the single back power running we tried earlier, in the last few games with Larsen back and using quite a bit of ZBS again he is coming alive. He sees the holes well and he is really elusive.

kappys
12-01-2009, 01:16 PM
I voted for top 10% but that's not accurate. He won't be among the top 3 backs in the NFL, not with Peterson/Chris Johnson/MJD occupying the 1 2 and 3 spots.

However I think he'll easily be a top ten back and he's almost there right now. I think next year he likely will end up behind Peterson, Johnson, MJD, Ray Rice, Turner, and Steven Jackson.

rastaman
12-01-2009, 01:25 PM
Knowshon is on the same pace that TD had back in 95 when he rushed for 1117 yards and 7 TD.

rastaman
12-01-2009, 01:29 PM
I voted for top 10% but that's not accurate. He won't be among the top 3 backs in the NFL, not with Peterson/Chris Johnson/MJD occupying the 1 2 and 3 spots.

However I think he'll easily be a top ten back and he's almost there right now. I think next year he likely will end up behind Peterson, Johnson, MJD, Ray Rice, Turner, and Steven Jackson.

You put Moreno in a zone-blocking/I-formation running attack with a lead blocking FB and I bet you Moreno will be btwn the 2d, 3rd, or 4th rated RB in the NFL!

You leave Moreno in a single-back-shot gun scheme and Moreno will is a 6th thru 10th rated RB in the league.

mr007
12-01-2009, 01:36 PM
You put Moreno in a zone-blocking/I-formation running attack with a lead blocking FB and I bet you Moreno will be btwn the 2d, 3rd, or 4th rated RB in the NFL!

You leave Moreno in a single-back-shot gun scheme and Moreno will is a 6th thru 10th rated RB in the league.

This doesn't really make any sense to me.

I-Formations bring more players in the box, basically negating the effectiveness of a fullback. A runner with good vision and patience can be just as successful, if not better from a singleback formation than an I. Moreno will be as good or even better out of the formations we are currently running to what you're describing.

uplink
12-01-2009, 01:39 PM
I didn't see an appropriate choice on the poll. He won't be a star but he will be a successful back worthy of resigning etc. So between choice 1 and 2 for me. He has a
great attitude, can block, and can catch. He will be a very serviceable RB IMO.
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listopencil
12-01-2009, 02:02 PM
I don't know if you guys saw this, it's from a Chiefs site:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/images/B8D8657A747D4CE5873FD256D35CF272.JPG?0.41727974071 30926


It's from a "risk vs. reward" article about a KC player but I thought it was interesting.

listopencil
12-01-2009, 02:05 PM
Here's one that lists the top 11 most explosive runners on the chart. Moreno is included at #11, I assume because his stats were so close to the #10 guy.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/images/26FB3FF62FF2475DB99E4544878D5A70.JPG?0.74341651638 5975

Rabb
12-01-2009, 02:08 PM
LT fumbled a good bit in his rookie year if I remember right, he turned out ok

Beantown Bronco
12-01-2009, 02:10 PM
Those charts really highlight one thing: Steven Jackson's career has been such a waste in St Louis. Too bad. Still wish we would've drafted him when we had the chance.

2KBack
12-01-2009, 02:17 PM
Knowshon's biggest problem is McDaniels. When did the Pats ever have a running game?

Well let's see...Where did the patriots rank in rushing attempts during McD's time there?
2003- 12th in attempts
2004- 5th
2005- 18th
2006- 6th
2007- 9th
2008- 4th

Looks to me that New England spends a lot of time at least trying to rush the ball.

underrated29
12-01-2009, 02:19 PM
Those charts really highlight one thing: Steven Jackson's career has been such a waste in St Louis. Too bad. Still wish we would've drafted him when we had the chance.

Id be willing to bet he would have come really dam close to TDs 2k8 yards if he were here. Definitley 3k all purpose.

I pray for him that STL trades him to anyone. He would flourish in HOU. But Stl would never let him go...i think he just signed an extension too. Poor guy.


He will lite it up though in weeks 14,15,16,17.

Rohirrim
12-01-2009, 02:29 PM
LT fumbled a good bit in his rookie year if I remember right, he turned out ok

So did TD.

Kaylore
12-01-2009, 02:56 PM
He's closer to the first choice than the second, but I don't know if he's ever going to be one of the very top backs in the league.

Archer81
12-01-2009, 03:24 PM
...and what were the stats for their passing game?


2007: 403 comp 586 att, 4859 yds, 50 tds 9 ints.

2008: 339 comp 534 att, 3790 yds, 21 tds 11 ints.


:Broncos:

Bronco Yoda
12-01-2009, 03:40 PM
Way too early to tell about Moreno.

But he's improving nicely. I'm glad we have him. Now let's see if he can move to the next level.

Popps
12-01-2009, 03:50 PM
You tell the league he's coming. And he's bringing Hell with him!

:rofl:

Popps
12-01-2009, 03:52 PM
I love the kid. I don't think he'll put up huge number because we don't run that kind of offense.

I think he'll give us 75-125 tough yards a game, catch some passes and be a very effective part of moving the chains, which is what we do. He's not Chris Johnson, he's more like an Emmitt Smith type. We can pound people with him and sustain drives. He's got excellent vision and body-control and isn't easy to bring down.

He's going to be a great fit for our offense.

Look at the Giants game. There's your template for how we run the ball, and how we win games.

errand
12-01-2009, 07:20 PM
The bottom line is that if he was the star everybody here says he is, he would've shown that already.
We're still waiting. Call me when that happens, would ya'?

The guy gets more free passes for his fumbles than Cutler does in Chicago for his INT's...ROFL!

This coming from a guy that thinks Peyton Hillis is the best RB on our team....sure Peyton doesn't fumble...but then again I haven't thrown an INT in the NFL either. Pretty easy to accomplish when you don't play.

errand
12-01-2009, 07:30 PM
Knowshon needs to be used in the right way and I think McD is finally understanding this. He needs to be involved in the offense early and often, establish the run with him and then untilize his talents ala Marshall Faulk.

Not sure why McD doesn't "get it."

You haven't heard? It's because McDaniels doesn't know football....I mean c'mon he got rid a franchise QB in Cutler and doesn't play our best RB in Hillis.

Soul-Bronco
12-01-2009, 07:39 PM
You haven't heard? It's because McDaniels doesn't know football....I mean c'mon he got rid a franchise QB in Cutler and doesn't play our best RB in Hillis.

:spit: best thing ive read all day

colonelbeef
12-01-2009, 08:56 PM
I like him, he needs to work on his hands though

peacepipe
12-02-2009, 08:22 AM
Well let's see...Where did the patriots rank in rushing attempts during McD's time there?
2003- 12th in attempts
2004- 5th
2005- 18th
2006- 6th
2007- 9th
2008- 4th

Looks to me that New England spends a lot of time at least trying to rush the ball.trying & actually doing are 2 different things.

listopencil
12-02-2009, 04:26 PM
2007: 403 comp 586 att, 4859 yds, 50 tds 9 ints.
451 times for 1848 yards and 17tds.


2008: 339 comp 534 att, 3790 yds, 21 tds 11 ints.
513 times for 2278 yards and 21 tds.

:Broncos:



Cool, thanks. Wanted to see the numbers together. I would imagine 07 is what McD wants to do, 08 is what he had to do when Brady went down. Maybe 09 is 08 w/o the INT's? It looks to me like they ran it more, as well as more effectively, in 08. Like basically McD knew he needed to give Cassell the run support and he did.

rastaman
12-03-2009, 04:04 PM
This doesn't really make any sense to me.

I-Formations bring more players in the box, basically negating the effectiveness of a fullback. A runner with good vision and patience can be just as successful, if not better from a singleback formation than an I. Moreno will be as good or even better out of the formations we are currently running to what you're describing.

The results of the FB's initial block in conjunction with the O line blocking, teams can't tee-off on the RB. You add in zone blocking as well and oppossing Defenses must watch their gaps and can't tee-off on the RB's as well. Thus you have your RB's (Moreno) taking less solid vicious hits and limiting the chance of chronic injuries and perhaps extending Moreno career to 8-10 years.

Now if the zone blocking schemes stretches defenses it creates gap that allows Moreno to exploit these lanes with his vision. If a gap is created by the O line and you have a lead blocking FB take on the first defender that breaches the gap, Moreno only needs to use his vision and elusiveness to make the next tackler miss.....then you'll see Moreno riping off nice chuncks of yards and now suddenly the play action pass is available to Orton.

OABB
12-03-2009, 04:12 PM
The results of the FB's initial block in conjunction with the O line blocking, teams can't tee-off on the RB. You add in zone blocking as well and oppossing Defenses must watch their gaps and can't tee-off on the RB's as well. Thus you have your RB's (Moreno) taking less solid vicious hits and limiting the chance of chronic injuries and perhaps extending Moreno career to 8-10 years.

Now if the zone blocking schemes stretches defenses it creates gap that allows Moreno to exploit these lanes with his vision. If a gap is created by the O line and you have a lead blocking FB take on the first defender that breaches the gap, Moreno only needs to use his vision and elusiveness to make the next tackler miss.....then you'll see Moreno riping off nice chuncks of yards and now suddenly the play action pass is available to Orton.


who broke into rastaman's account?

This actually makes sense and doesn't make me want to throw my keyboard through my computer screen. WHoever you are, don't let that rasta douche back into here. stay as long as you like.

Also, can you hack into Lex's account?

rastaman
12-03-2009, 04:13 PM
This coming from a guy that thinks Peyton Hillis is the best RB on our team....sure Peyton doesn't fumble...but then again I haven't thrown an INT in the NFL either. Pretty easy to accomplish when you don't play.

Sorry dude....poor analogy. The only reason why YOU haven't thrown any interceptions in the NFL is b/c you aren't even talanted enough to even make an NFL special teams or practice squad....let alone even a journeyman QB.

By the way, no one said Hillis is the best RB on the team, but Hillis has shown he has the talent to at least have 5-10 running plays and 5-10 passes out of the backfield!!!!!

Makes you wonder what McDaniel's is afraid of? McD saw the tapes/videos of Hillis from last season on what McD brings to a first team offense. Maybe McD can watch how talented Peyton is in another uniform in next season.8')

rastaman
12-03-2009, 04:19 PM
who broke into rastaman's account?

This actually makes sense and doesn't make me want to throw my keyboard through my computer screen. WHoever you are, don't let that rasta douche back into here. stay as long as you like.

Also, can you hack into Lex's account?

Gee Whiz Orange Douche Bag......I made the post idiot proof so even Knuckle Dragging Neanderthal Caveman with limited brain matter such as you could see the benefits of allowing Moreno to run in a zone blocking scheme from an I-formation with a lead blocking FB.

But hey man......take heart, there's still hope for tribal idiots like you.

bronco610
12-03-2009, 04:24 PM
What is with the wording on the poll's lately? They all seem to be worded to make the Bronco fan nation even more split than it already is. Why?

OABB
12-03-2009, 04:26 PM
Gee Whiz Orange Douche Bag......I made the post idiot proof so even Knuckle Dragging Neanderthal Caveman with limited brain matter such as you could see the benefits of allowing Moreno to run in a zone blocking scheme from an I-formation with a lead blocking FB.

But hey man......take heart, there's still hope for tribal idiots like you.

um. I think you are confused who you are talking to. I think you need to step up the Knuckle Dragging Neanderthal Caveman proofing in your own brain first.

I was agreeing with you ****stain.

glad to see you are back.

rastaman
12-03-2009, 04:32 PM
Adrian Peterson has 15 fumbles that last two seasons. 4 is not great, but it could be alot worse.


:Broncos:

Meh!.....Moreno fumbles are sugar coated and Peyton's fumbles are villified. Go figure.

rastaman
12-03-2009, 04:34 PM
um. I think you are confused who you are talking to. I think you need to step up the Knuckle Dragging Neanderthal Caveman proofing in your own brain first.

I was agreeing with you ****stain.

glad to see you are back.

Never went anywhere.:wiggle:

Swedish Extrovert
12-03-2009, 04:37 PM
In between option one and two. And he has to stop fumbling.

BlaK-Argentina
12-03-2009, 05:09 PM
He looked like a star last week. He should only get better.

cutthemdown
12-03-2009, 05:52 PM
He'll be like Ricky Williams minus the weed...
Once the hype wears off, and bounces around a team or two, he'll be a serviceable back...
A Selvyn Young type back...

LOL he's nothing like Young. Also once out of Denver did young even play anymore?

Archer81
12-03-2009, 05:53 PM
Meh!.....Moreno fumbles are sugar coated and Peyton's fumbles are villified. Go figure.


Oh for ****'s sake will you go choke on an aids infected dick already? I was comparing our starting HB's stats through their first 11 games in the NFL. Can you stay on topic or is too difficult for you to not mention your odd obsession with the great white hope?


:Broncos:

cutthemdown
12-03-2009, 05:54 PM
He looked like a star last week. He should only get better.

His moves seemed to come more naturally and looked quicker and smoother.

BroncoDoug
12-03-2009, 06:02 PM
He'll be like Ricky Williams minus the weed...
Once the hype wears off, and bounces around a team or two, he'll be a serviceable back...
A Selvyn Young type back...

you're comparing Ricky Williams to Selvin Young? what?! Ricky Williams led teh league in rushing for a couple of season, won a Heisman trophy, left as the all time NCAA rusher. And has better career numbers then Terrell Davis...

Selvin Young isn't even in the league anymore...

If Knowshon has a Ricky Williams type career (minus the weed issue) I don't think a whole lot of us will be complaining.

Popps
12-03-2009, 06:04 PM
Probably also worth mentioning that Moreno came out as a junior. So, he's a college senior playing for a pro team right now. He'll continue to improve mentally and physically.

mhgaffney
12-03-2009, 08:25 PM
Moreno was a red shirt sophomore. Unless I'm mistaken this means he came out BEFORE his junior year.

outdoor_miner
12-03-2009, 08:28 PM
Yep - he came out after his Sophomore year (although, he did redshirt as a Freshman). He's only 22.