PDA

View Full Version : Peyton Hillis


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

Popps
11-25-2009, 11:47 PM
So, we've heard speculation from a few corners that he's had issues with coaching, or picking up the playbook. Being someone who thought he had starter written all over him, I found that tough to believe. But, I read it in a few places... and then even received a PM from what seemed a reliable source with no reason to make anything up. I didn't discredit the info, but didn't buy into it completely, either.

Yet, two offensive masterminds chose not to make him a starter, despite what looks like good physical tools.

So, after these rumors persisted, I googled a bit and came across this. Apparently, something called a "SIGMA" test, which is part of an "HRT Profile" that I'm guessing scouts use, which cites Wonderlic info, etc.

Again, I think Hillis has the physical tools to be productive, but this was an interesting read, if for no other reason... the detail it includes.

It's a PDF download. Find it by googling "Hillis SIGMA." I'm guessing this probably wasn't meant for public consumption so much as for some sort of scouting use. It doesn't sound like it's written for commercial consumption.

Hillis’s SIGMA test results raise several concerns. The approach he took to learning and preparation in college produced a personal belief that he was not able to consistently execute his responsibilities in games. There are strong indications that he needs to take more personal responsibility for learning what he needs to know. His coaches should make him execute, again and again, his responsibilities in game-like time constraints. During the off-season, pre-season, and practice, he will sometimes give less than his best effort and will let up when he sees an opportunity to do so. As a result, Hillis has not always been able to meet the challenges placed in front of him by his coaches. There were times when Hillis thought he came up short of meeting his own and his coaches’ expectations. He will be concerned about the kind of system he may be placed in and whether he can be successful and meet everyone’s requirements and demands. Hillis will tend to worry that he is not as prepared as he should be going into games. This self-doubt does not speak well for his chances of advancing and mastering his position requirements at the next level. Hillis is usually content to rely heavily on his natural abilities to get by and believes that his past coaches have had little impact on his performance. He thinks that he knows best and is less likely to listen to coaches’ advice and instructions and instead will try to play the game his own way. When things are not going well for him, Hillis will be openly critical and question his coaches and his teammates.

Do with it what you will, but it's interesting... considering the rumors and the circumstances.

Hogan11
11-26-2009, 12:01 AM
He's as good as gone next year.

Popps
11-26-2009, 12:05 AM
He's as good as gone next year.

Yea, it's tough for me to believe... but it could happen. He wouldn't be the first guy with physical gifts that couldn't execute them properly.

Who knows how accurate any of this is, but at a certain point... you have to look for reasons.

McDaniels made a 1st round pick inactive last week, showing that (obviously) he's got no agenda of making his draft picks appear to be something they're not. He's starting plenty of Shanahan guys. He's clearly a guy who will start the player that gives him the best chance of winning. I'd say he's probably pretty ruthless in that regard.

So, when you look at a guy with Hillis' ability... and he's not receiving playing time, you have to wonder if some of this stuff carries weight.

Los Broncos
11-26-2009, 12:06 AM
You might be right, that sure would piss off the Bronco nation.

Good find Popps thanks for posting, very interesting.

Hogan11
11-26-2009, 12:09 AM
You might be right, that sure would piss off the Bronco nation.

Good find Popps thanks for posting, very interesting.

As we have seen, McD has no issue at all with pissing off the Bronco Nation.

Popps said the magic word here...ruthless. A trait no doubt, he learned from his mentor.

Lev Vyvanse
11-26-2009, 12:11 AM
He has the same problem as cutler, all pro from the shoulders down and a empty head.

Play2win
11-26-2009, 12:17 AM
He has the same problem as cutler, all pro from the shoulders down and a empty head.

No doubt I thought I was reading a Cutler analysis, not hillis.

Los Broncos
11-26-2009, 12:19 AM
As we have seen, McD has no issue at all with pissing off the Bronco Nation.

Popps said the magic word here...ruthless. A trait no doubt, he learned from his mentor.

If he isn't going to be around next season I at least want to see him run one more time.

Natedog24
11-26-2009, 12:21 AM
It will be pretty disappointing if Hillis goes on to have a great career elsewhere in the NFL. Really thought he was going to be the compliment back to Moreno for many years here in Denver or at least a real force at FB...

watermock
11-26-2009, 12:23 AM
Yea, it's tough for me to believe... but it could happen. He wouldn't be the first guy with physical gifts that couldn't execute them properly.

Who knows how accurate any of this is, but at a certain point... you have to look for reasons.

McDaniels made a 1st round pick inactive last week, showing that (obviously) he's got no agenda of making his draft picks appear to be something they're not. He's starting plenty of Shanahan guys. He's clearly a guy who will start the player that gives him the best chance of winning. I'd say he's probably pretty ruthless in that regard.

So, when you look at a guy with Hillis' ability... and he's not receiving playing time, you have to wonder if some of this stuff carries weight.

Other than the fact Hillis was a 7th rounder or we traded into the top 10 for an inactive nickleback?

strafen
11-26-2009, 12:23 AM
Hillis, a guy who was thrown into the fire last year when all of our RB's went down, and to perform the way he did in such a short notice not only was remarkable, but blows this circulating BS out of the water.
This is the most ignorant crap I've heard in a while.
The guy is not stupid. McD brought his "own" guys to carry the ball for him; C-Buck, Lamont Jordan, and Moreno who he got in the draft.
That made Hillis the odd man out.
Quit trying to speculate and read into BS stories that not me, and not you know anything about what really is going on.
People are trying to get into Hillis head to say stuff like, Hillis thinks this, Hillis thinkls that, baloney. Who does really know what he's thinking?
I just want Hillis to be given a chance to play a whole freaking game solid.
A considerable playing time and let him loose.
I guarantee you that if that was to happen, all of this crap being talked about will change right quick.
There will be a lot of new dumbasses born that day...

Taco John
11-26-2009, 12:24 AM
Someone posted this earlier this year. It's interesting stuff, but none of it changes that the guy has shown to be an absolute beast with the ball in his hands. The guy flat punishes the other team.

So whatever that SIGMA profile says, tell me we couldn't use this in our offense right now:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/48HAiaY3vps&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/48HAiaY3vps&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

houghtam
11-26-2009, 12:25 AM
No doubt I thought I was reading a Cutler analysis, not hillis.

^ this

400HZ
11-26-2009, 12:26 AM
Those results sound a lot like the results you get from a Myers-Briggs or DiSC type personality assessment. The whole point of them is to point out personal weaknesses, and so they almost invariably come off sounding negative.

It's also a pretty well established fact that Houston Nutt is a vindictive prick to players who don't entirely buy into his way of doing things. I know that he has been accused of screwing over former players in the past.

Taco John
11-26-2009, 12:27 AM
He has the same problem as cutler, all pro from the shoulders down and a empty head.

How is it that Hillis was able to perform in Shanahan's offense if he's so stupid? Shanahan's scheme isn't exactly green eggs and ham.

watermock
11-26-2009, 12:30 AM
It was Popps calling for Hillis to start and draft front 7.

Morono scored less and fumbled more, and was drafted 200 places higher.

SoCalBronco
11-26-2009, 12:33 AM
How is it that Hillis was able to perform in Shanahan's offense if he's so stupid? Shanahan's scheme isn't exactly green eggs and ham.

Very good point. That was also a very complicated offense and he was able to perform not only in the run game but also the passing game. Shanahan also trusted him enough to leave him in to pass protect. I find it hard to believe that he's suddenly, magically too dumb to play, or unwilling to prepare, or unwilling to be coachable. The note Popps posted is interesting, but I just have a hard time squaring its conclusions with what's already been proven about Hillis in game action (and not just in one or two games, either).

watermock
11-26-2009, 12:36 AM
Those results sound a lot like the results you get from a Myers-Briggs or DiSC type personality assessment. The whole point of them is to point out personal weaknesses, and so they almost invariably come off sounding negative.

It's also a pretty well established fact that Houston Nutt is a vindictive prick to players who don't entirely buy into his way of doing things. I know that he has been accused of screwing over former players in the past.

Wow.

Go figure. Nutt would get kicked out of the KKK. He basically did.

Popps
11-26-2009, 12:43 AM
How is it that Hillis was able to perform in Shanahan's offense if he's so stupid? Shanahan's scheme isn't exactly green eggs and ham.

He really didn't, Taco. Shanahan did everything he could to keep him off the field. Injuries put him in the starting role. He certainly played well in that role, and I became a huge fan.

But, if he can't pick up blocks, and can't execute the game plan and work with coaching, you can't reward a guy with a starting job.

Again, it's just speculation. I agree... he looks great with the ball in his hands.

He averaged 5.0 yards a carry in college. Why did he last until the 5th round?

Why didn't Shanahan/Turner make him a starter earlier?

Why is McDaniels choosing the same path?

I'm fairly sure McDaniels and Turner have YouTube. They've probably seen him with the ball in his hands.

At a certain point, you have to assume there's a reason.

Or, perhaps Shanahan and McDaniels simply are both incorrect about him being starting material. Who knows... but here we are.

Popps
11-26-2009, 12:44 AM
It was Popps calling for Hillis to start and draft front 7.


We've covered that 10 times. Should we do it again?

YES, I thought he was starting caliber.... hence the thread and the repeated explanations as such.

Should we do this a few more times?

Is there maybe someone there at home that can help you, man?

Popps
11-26-2009, 12:47 AM
The note Popps posted is interesting, but I just have a hard time squaring its conclusions with what's already been proven about Hillis in game action (and not just in one or two games, either).

I'd agree with that, absolutely.

But, here we are. McDaniels directed one of the most prolific offenses in history. Why did Shanahan and McDaniels both choose NOT to start Hillis when they had other options?

I don't have an answer, but with so much recent speculation as to how he's the answer to our running woes (where we average about 4.5 yards a carry between our two starters) .... I figured this was thread-worthy.

I truly believe he's had chances this year, and hasn't done much with them. Hopefully he'll get more. We could use another hammer, for sure.

watermock
11-26-2009, 12:53 AM
He went on IR last year and is probably the reason we had a cellphone salesman at RB and drafted Moreno, wonderlic 13..

Try that one on for size.

houghtam
11-26-2009, 12:59 AM
He went on IR last year and is probably the reason we had a cellphone salesman at RB and drafted Moreno, wonderlic 13..

Try that one on for size.

How many other running backs went on IR before he became the starting RB? I think that was Popps' point.

watermock
11-26-2009, 01:05 AM
He was the starting FB.

Go check.

Doesn't matter honestly.

He played outstanding till Cutler hung him out from the slot.

Taco John
11-26-2009, 01:13 AM
The guy is at least a five tool player: pass blocker, back field receiver, lead blocker, punishing open field runningback, short yardage running back.

It's amazing to me that we can't find a way to use him on a team that has managed only four rushing touchdowns, and is in the top ten in fumbles. Hell, Hillis accounts for 25% of our rushing touchdowns with 1. He's gotten 50% of Knowshon's scoring production with 1 touchdown.

In 68 carries last year, Hillis gave us 6 TDs, produced 14 receptions, 24 first downs (35.3 first down percentage), a 5.0 yard per carry average and zero fumbles.

In 142 carries, Knowshon has 2 TDs, produced 14 receptions, 32 first downs (22.5 first down percentage), a 4.2 yard per carry average, and four fumbles - one more and he ties Tatum Bell's 2006 career high.


I've bolded the number that really irks me. Hillis's number here is elite. Being over 30% is practically unheard of. Nearing 25% is what guys like Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, and MoJo Drew have.

errand
11-26-2009, 01:15 AM
As we have seen, McD has no issue at all with pissing off the Bronco Nation.

Popps said the magic word here...ruthless. A trait no doubt, he learned from his mentor.

...his mentor who has won 3 of 4 NFL title bouts this decade. I find it amazing that when it comes to players, you guys don't care if they come from Penn State or the State Pen...but when it comes to coaching, being politically correct and honorable is the first thing you look for.

I don't care as long as they win games...the hows and whys can be debated by the other 31 teams that didn't win it all.

Taco John
11-26-2009, 01:16 AM
I truly believe he's had chances this year, and hasn't done much with them. Hopefully he'll get more. We could use another hammer, for sure.

You truly believe that 4 carries qualifies as having had chances this year?

errand
11-26-2009, 01:21 AM
How is it that Hillis was able to perform in Shanahan's offense if he's so stupid? Shanahan's scheme isn't exactly green eggs and ham.

That what makes his absence from the playing field so vexing.....but I'm dure if he was the best option available, he'd be starting....or at least getting some time in.

errand
11-26-2009, 01:22 AM
It was Popps calling for Hillis to start and draft front 7.

Morono scored less and fumbled more, and was drafted 200 places higher.


Alot of rookies have had problems holding onto the ball early in their careers. But the bottom line is this...Moreno is head and shoulders above Hillis in the talent dept....which explains him being drafted in the first round, 200 places higher.

Popps
11-26-2009, 01:33 AM
You truly believe that 4 carries qualifies as having had chances this year?

He's apparently had problems on special teams... and depending on what you want to believe, things go back to training camp.

A better question is... why would McDaniels and Shanahan both purposely choose to sabotage their own teams?

There IS a reason he's not playing. I can't tell you what it is, but do you think that McDaniels just has no ability to evaluate talent? Shanahan? Turner?

It's no accident that he's got 4 carries. McDaniels has shown no bias of any sort. He starts guys that "do their job."

Why does Hillis only have 4 carries?

That's where we need to start.

Killericon
11-26-2009, 01:33 AM
It's Mike Bell all over again. Flashes of brilliance one season, invisible the next, gone the one after that.

Taco John
11-26-2009, 01:36 AM
McDaniels has shown no bias of any sort.

*scoff*

Compare September game logs, and then tell that to Correll Buckhalter.

Taco John
11-26-2009, 01:40 AM
I know I'm flirting with being called Anti-McDaniels, but I'd feel the same way if I watched a rookie pissing down his leg while a five tool player sat on the bench under Shanahan. We're on a four game skid right now, and the shortcomings in our running game play no small part in that. It's true that the oline bears some blame, but that excuse only goes so far when you consider what Hillis got out of nearly the same guys during his rookie campaign.

Popps
11-26-2009, 01:41 AM
*scoff*

Compare September game logs, and then tell that to Correll Buckhalter.

Buckhalter missed time with injury. He's averaging over 5 ypc. He's also clearly a guy that needs to be used conservatively.

He's taken first-drive snaps on many occasion.

I must be missing the problem?

Taco John
11-26-2009, 01:44 AM
The problem is that our lead runningback is a two down guy at this point, but he keeps getting third down and short yardage carries.

Popps
11-26-2009, 01:44 AM
I know I'm flirting with being called Anti-McDaniels, but I'd feel the same way if I watched a rookie pissing down his leg while a five tool player sat on the bench under Shanahan. We're on a four game skid right now, and the shortcomings in our running game play no small part in that. It's true that the oline bears some blame, but that excuse only goes so far when you consider what Hillis got out of nearly the same guys during his rookie campaign.

Well, we're running a different running scheme, for one. Like that or not, that's how it's going to be. We're moving towards a power-running attack, and as someone else pointed out, that's likely because it works in the playoffs. (Once you're personnel is correct.)

So, there's a question as to whether or not Hillis was the beneficiary of a zone scheme or not. I really don't know.

But, again... you said it yourself. Hillis has FOUR carries.

That's not a accident, it's a statement.

If there's one thing I think we'd all agree about McDaniels, it's that he'd start his mother in law at RB if she helped the team win.

Four carries.

There's a reason for that. I'm not saying I know what it is... but there IS a reason.

Taco John
11-26-2009, 01:54 AM
I don't buy it. Moreno has earned nothing at this point, and he's already spent his benefit of a doubt with his fumblitis. There's no doubt that Hillis can help this team given what we all know about what he can offer (5 tools) and what we're getting out of our running game at this point.

Also, if we're running a power running attack, then why are we starting a guy with Tatum Bell's measurables, and not the 250lb power runner?

I think you're discounting pride. We all know that Hillis can help this team win games. We've witnessed it already in full glory. You're absolutely right though: Hillis only has four carries. Not enough to really evaluate anything, but still enough to manage 50% of our starting rookie's scoring production. I think you're discounting pride. Maybe that's not it, but whatever it is, it certainly isn't that our rookie is showing himself to be head and shoulders ahead of anyone else. So we're left to take wild guesses.

Taco John
11-26-2009, 01:57 AM
I'm out. Got Disneyland in the morning.

Good discussion. Can't wait to see what happens Thursday night.

Blart
11-26-2009, 02:09 AM
Did you guys know that he's white?

Archer81
11-26-2009, 02:15 AM
I'd do him.

Wait...what are we talking about?

:Broncos:

bpc
11-26-2009, 02:21 AM
You truly believe that 4 carries qualifies as having had chances this year?

LMAO. Thank you for saving me the time looking that one up.

He's playing HB. It's not rocket science.

McDaniels just wants his boy in the game to make his draft class look better. That's basically it.

Personally, I hope Hillis is let go so he can sign on with a team like New Orleans and he'll just get to abuse the league through the air and rushing the ball. Then we'll be talking about another Bronco player that could have been.

Sigh, whatever.

I hope we win tomorrow dammit.

SouthStndJunkie
11-26-2009, 02:53 AM
It's Mike Bell all over again. Flashes of brilliance one season, invisible the next, gone the one after that.

And now Mike Bell turns up as a valuable weapon on an undefeated team.

Bell is having a nice year....514 yards (4.5 ypc) and 4 TDs in a part time role.

SouthStndJunkie
11-26-2009, 02:54 AM
I'd do him.

Wait...what are we talking about?

:Broncos:

I think he looks more like a top man....

Hulamau
11-26-2009, 03:13 AM
Yea, it's tough for me to believe... but it could happen. He wouldn't be the first guy with physical gifts that couldn't execute them properly.

Who knows how accurate any of this is, but at a certain point... you have to look for reasons.

McDaniels made a 1st round pick inactive last week, showing that (obviously) he's got no agenda of making his draft picks appear to be something they're not. He's starting plenty of Shanahan guys. He's clearly a guy who will start the player that gives him the best chance of winning. I'd say he's probably pretty ruthless in that regard.

So, when you look at a guy with Hillis' ability... and he's not receiving playing time, you have to wonder if some of this stuff carries weight.

Interesting article I've always liked Hillis and wished him well, and you can never really judge a book by its cover, but often times his expression conveys a good 'ole boy who looks to be a few eggs short of a dozen.

Though in fairness, the same can be said for probably 50% of the NFL :-) Some coaches included ....

Gort
11-26-2009, 03:36 AM
Hillis’s SIGMA test results raise several concerns. The approach he took to learning and preparation in college produced a personal belief that he was not able to consistently execute his responsibilities in games. There are strong indications that he needs to take more personal responsibility for learning what he needs to know. His coaches should make him execute, again and again, his responsibilities in game-like time constraints. During the off-season, pre-season, and practice, he will sometimes give less than his best effort and will let up when he sees an opportunity to do so. As a result, Hillis has not always been able to meet the challenges placed in front of him by his coaches. There were times when Hillis thought he came up short of meeting his own and his coaches’ expectations. He will be concerned about the kind of system he may be placed in and whether he can be successful and meet everyone’s requirements and demands. Hillis will tend to worry that he is not as prepared as he should be going into games. This self-doubt does not speak well for his chances of advancing and mastering his position requirements at the next level. Hillis is usually content to rely heavily on his natural abilities to get by and believes that his past coaches have had little impact on his performance. He thinks that he knows best and is less likely to listen to coaches’ advice and instructions and instead will try to play the game his own way. When things are not going well for him, Hillis will be openly critical and question his coaches and his teammates.

sounds like something they might have written about John Riggins 40 years ago. and he only ended up in the HOF.

McD needs to get Hillis some carries. he's a playmaker and we need somebody to carry on the Mile High Salute tradition. if he can't learn the whole playbook, then give him 15-20 plays to learn and use him for those. it's not rocket science.

fontaine
11-26-2009, 04:29 AM
The only reason I can think of is that McDaniels has setup this offense in the first half of the season for the short passing game.

When we were executing well on offense it was distributing the all to different receivers and Moreno and Buck are much better pass catchers than Hillis.

That being said, Moreno's fumbling issue and Buckhalter's knee injury makes me believe that we do need a punishing runner that can run inside in Hillis.

The bigger problem though, has been that we've been behind so often that past few weeks that McDaniels has just abandoned the running game in the 2nd half so no RB is getting much work then.

HorseHead
11-26-2009, 06:04 AM
Here's the ball..run that way...you don't have to be Stephen Hawking to figure it out...

Looking at TJ's video, I got depressed...great...i'm going to drink today...

elsid13
11-26-2009, 06:40 AM
Popps are reading that analysis wrong. That doesn't indicate that he stupid but rather he needs have hands on learning approach vs. visual one on the white board approach that most coach use. There is also a lot of speculation in that "report" without evidence and I have strange feeling that whoever did it did from 200 miles away and not with the subject.

Turner and Shanahan didn't insert him into the line up, because they wanted him to play FB role which held different responsibilities and roles in that offense.

Broncos_OTM
11-26-2009, 07:01 AM
Hillis, a guy who was thrown into the fire last year when all of our RB's went down, and to perform the way he did in such a short notice not only was remarkable, but blows this circulating BS out of the water.
This is the most ignorant crap I've heard in a while.
The guy is not stupid. McD brought his "own" guys to carry the ball for him; C-Buck, Lamont Jordan, and Moreno who he got in the draft.
That made Hillis the odd man out.
Quit trying to speculate and read into BS stories that not me, and not you know anything about what really is going on.
People are trying to get into Hillis head to say stuff like, Hillis thinks this, Hillis thinkls that, baloney. Who does really know what he's thinking?
I just want Hillis to be given a chance to play a whole freaking game solid.
A considerable playing time and let him loose.
I guarantee you that if that was to happen, all of this crap being talked about will change right quick.
There will be a lot of new dumbasses born that day...that is why hillis was active last week and jordan wasnt...Another thing was that Moreno was drafted in the first of course he is going to see a heavy load of action buck is a established vet with injury concerns but is a great number two.. if he can stay healthy.

I am a tad bit concerned with Moreno and his fumbles but he has got tattooed to give up the ball its not like he doesnt carry the ball right. just some damn good hits

Broncos_OTM
11-26-2009, 07:03 AM
Popps are reading that analysis wrong. That doesn't indicate that he stupid but rather he needs have hands on learning approach vs. visual one on the white board approach that most coach use. There is also a lot of speculation in that "report" without evidence and I have strange feeling that whoever did it did from 200 miles away and not with the subject.

Turner and Shanahan didn't insert him into the line up, because they wanted him to play FB role which held different responsibilities and roles in that offense.
say what, only in english this time

Broncos_OTM
11-26-2009, 07:04 AM
The only reason I can think of is that McDaniels has setup this offense in the first half of the season for the short passing game.

When we were executing well on offense it was distributing the all to different receivers and Moreno and Buck are much better pass catchers than Hillis.

That being said, Moreno's fumbling issue and Buckhalter's knee injury makes me believe that we do need a punishing runner that can run inside in Hillis.

The bigger problem though, has been that we've been behind so often that past few weeks that McDaniels has just abandoned the running game in the 2nd half so no RB is getting much work then.

i guess you missed last year when there was alot of people floating that he had the best hands on the TEAM.. and by he i mean hillis

watermock
11-26-2009, 07:05 AM
mockiese

CEH
11-26-2009, 07:42 AM
McDaniels has shown no bias of any sort.


*scoff*
Compare September game logs, and then tell that to Correll Buckhalter.

One needs only to look at the Washington game log to see bias.

CBuck fumbles and never sees the field again after avg 5.5 yards a carry his only two carries
Moreno fumbles the next week and continues to play. Some could say the same about Hillis.

There's a double standard here

NYBronco
11-26-2009, 07:44 AM
From what I have seen from some of our "starters" Hillis has much to offer. I believe he has a better handle on the ball in all situations and could be of a force in short yardage and goal line situations.Both running the ball and receiving, even as a pass or lead blocker.

In comparison Hillis can't do any worse at RB then Simms at his particular QB backup position.

McDman
11-26-2009, 07:51 AM
I've been a McD supporter, but they're are a few thing that have begun to piss me off about him. He clearly plays favorites, just like Shanny did, just look at the Buckhalter situation in the Redskins game.

I read an article awhile back that Hillis was severely under performing in practice. They give out black jerseys to people who excel in practice that week and Hillis has received none, Moss has received multiple ones. This is probably the main reason why he has not seenthe field.

BUT, McD has seen his game tape from last year and the guy is just a stud football player. I don't see any reason why we don't give him 5-10 carries a game to inject some power into our run game and mix things up a little bit?

loborugger
11-26-2009, 08:36 AM
One needs only to look at the Washington game log to see bias.

CBuck fumbles and never sees the field again after avg 5.5 yards a carry his only two carries
Moreno fumbles the next week and continues to play. Some could say the same about Hillis.

There's a double standard here

Absolutely. And to bring it around to Hillis, Peyton fumbled that opening kick in the Cleveland game, and has had hardly gotten on the field since.

Scheff also seems to be disappearing in our offensive scheme, as the passes are going more to Daniel Graham... a dude who is a blocking TE and also a former Pat.

I guess every coach has 'his guys.' Our rookie aint any different, I guess. I can just hope and pray we dont waive DJ Williams and Elvis to bring Tedy Bruschi and Ted Johnson outta retirement.

Pony Boy
11-26-2009, 08:53 AM
Here is the complete document on Hillis, I posted this in an earlier thread.

25608

GeniusatWork
11-26-2009, 09:09 AM
It was weird when Hillis scored his only TD how he didn't accept congratulations ran off the field not talking to anybody and went and sat on the bench staring at the ground. That sort of gave me the feeling he didn't really want to play for some reason. That was a strange reaction to scoring a TD early in the season.

Hamrob
11-26-2009, 09:36 AM
I haven't read all the posts...but at least half. The one thing I haven't read so far, is:

Hillis fumbled early in the season (if I recall correctly). There was a blow up on the side line where Hillis was shouting at McDaniels. I think there's bad blood there and it's going to take a lot for Hillis to dig his way out of the dog house.

Peyton Hillis will be a stud in this league....just probably not for our Broncos. Mike Bell seems to be doing pretty well with the Saints.

I don't think Shanahan thought poorly of Hillis. I think Shanahan didn't want to trust a rookie until he absolutely had to. Hillis was not the typical RB at 250lbs, so he was hesitant, but after he was forced to play him at TB, his eyes were open. I think had Shanahan stayed put, Hillis would have been playing a key role this season. I also believe that Shanny would have taken Orakapo instead of Moreno. But, hey, its all speculation now.

Either McDaniels will let Hillis out of the dog house so that he can prove himself...or Hillis will be a stud elsewhere. Mark my words. And by the way, Hillis did get a couple of snaps last game...but when you fall behind in games...you abandon the run pretty fast.

oubronco
11-26-2009, 09:49 AM
Someone posted this earlier this year. It's interesting stuff, but none of it changes that the guy has shown to be an absolute beast with the ball in his hands. The guy flat punishes the other team.

So whatever that SIGMA profile says, tell me we couldn't use this in our offense right now:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/48HAiaY3vps&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/48HAiaY3vps&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Exactly but I wouldn't be surprised to see him gone after the season along with Marshall and Stokely, with McD's so called complex mastermind offense noone on our team must be smart enough cause it isn't working and it isn't producing so he'll probably blame everyone but himself and get rid of them but we'll see after all he is a Genius right

errand
11-26-2009, 10:16 AM
The guy is at least a five tool player: pass blocker, back field receiver, lead blocker, punishing open field runningback, short yardage running back.

It's amazing to me that we can't find a way to use him on a team that has managed only four rushing touchdowns, and is in the top ten in fumbles. Hell, Hillis accounts for 25% of our rushing touchdowns with 1. He's gotten 50% of Knowshon's scoring production with 1 touchdown.

In 68 carries last year, Hillis gave us 6 TDs, produced 14 receptions, 24 first downs (35.3 first down percentage), a 5.0 yard per carry average and zero fumbles.

In 142 carries, Knowshon has 2 TDs, produced 14 receptions, 32 first downs (22.5 first down percentage), a 4.2 yard per carry average, and four fumbles - one more and he ties Tatum Bell's 2006 career high.


I've bolded the number that really irks me. Hillis's number here is elite. Being over 30% is practically unheard of. Nearing 25% is what guys like Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, and MoJo Drew have.

I like overachievers like Hillis personally...however as a fan of the Broncos, I want the best player on the field if he's healthy.

Pointing out the number of first downs rushed for is senseless....how many of his "elite" first downs were 1-2 yard gains? Now if 35% of his rushes from 1st and 10, 2nd and 8, or 3rd and 4, then I'd be more impressed.

As far as Moreno goess, he's a rookie and is gonna make rookie mistakes...the big boys of the NFL are better at stripping the ball than the guys at Louisiana Tech are. I'm not enamored with his case of fumbilitis, but he's the most complete back we have on our roster....and yes, he's better than Hillis too TJ.

gyldenlove
11-26-2009, 10:24 AM
I'd agree with that, absolutely.

But, here we are. McDaniels directed one of the most prolific offenses in history. Why did Shanahan and McDaniels both choose NOT to start Hillis when they had other options?

I don't have an answer, but with so much recent speculation as to how he's the answer to our running woes (where we average about 4.5 yards a carry between our two starters) .... I figured this was thread-worthy.

I truly believe he's had chances this year, and hasn't done much with them. Hopefully he'll get more. We could use another hammer, for sure.

I think I can explain why he didn't start and hasn't started much. Hillis is not a system back, he clearly doesn't run well with a lead blocker and I believe he is most efficient in the type of run scheme they have at Arkansas where the offense tries to spread out and open up many gaps and the let the RB chose the right opportunity.

Whenever I see Hillis do well he is running off tackle from a single back formation or he is running a 1 cut route in a stretch play. To really take advantage of his skills you have to get him in space and let him go 1 on 1 with a defender. Unfortunately that is not a stable way to have a run game since it relies on at least a 1 to 1 blocker to defender ratio which is hard to achieve when running outside consistently since the defense will cheat to the running side and outman the offensive line on that side and leave the backside unprotected.

Hillis is in my estimation very good at what he does, but he is not the complete package you can build an offense around. I am concerned that he is not seeing more time out of the backfield though, he is clearly the best RB in the flat.

errand
11-26-2009, 10:27 AM
*scoff*

Compare September game logs, and then tell that to Correll Buckhalter.

Buckhalter made plays in Philly too TJ...but he's not the same player as Westbrook is. Last season he averaged 4.9 ypc to Westbrooks 4.0. He averaged 12.5 yards per catch to Westbrook's 7.4. So Andy Reid must be yet another moron who intentionally holds back the better players in order to satisfy his enormous ego, right?

errand
11-26-2009, 10:33 AM
LMAO. Thank you for saving me the time looking that one up.

He's playing HB. It's not rocket science.

McDaniels just wants his boy in the game to make his draft class look better. That's basically it.

Personally, I hope Hillis is let go so he can sign on with a team like New Orleans and he'll just get to abuse the league through the air and rushing the ball. Then we'll be talking about another Bronco player that could have been.

Sigh, whatever.

I hope we win tomorrow dammit.

Really...care to name any former Broncos player on another team's roster right now that make you "sigh" wonder what might have been?

strafen
11-26-2009, 10:44 AM
One needs only to look at the Washington game log to see bias.

CBuck fumbles and never sees the field again after avg 5.5 yards a carry his only two carries
Moreno fumbles the next week and continues to play. Some could say the same about Hillis.

There's a double standard hereI totally agree with you there, man
There's been a lot of uneducated posts suggesting earlier in the season that the reason Hillis was benched was because he fumbled and blew up his given opprtunities by making mistakes.
Now that we've seen Moreno fumble the ball left and right without any repercusion, now they're coming up with some off-the-wall comments as to what the real reason Hillis is not playing is.
To me, is more McD immaturity showing thru the reason why he won't play Hillis.
McD must've seen all of Hillis videos from last year. Hillis should've figured in his offensive plans from the get go.
Hillis has not played a full game.
He's been put in there for a play or two every other game if that!

go_broncos
11-26-2009, 10:45 AM
I dont want complex offense that scores only 3 points.

Peyton Hillis is a stud..I would take him over any of our current RBs.
Its funny that people are giving excuses for not starting Hillis.

I think Hillis might have done something bad personally to Mcd.
Thats the reason he is not starting.

errand
11-26-2009, 10:47 AM
And now Mike Bell turns up as a valuable weapon on an undefeated team.

Bell is having a nice year....514 yards (4.5 ypc) and 4 TDs in a part time role.

Mike Bell is having a nice year...but, then again the Saints are using a platoon system, so he's not getting hit 30 times a game either. Darren Sproles has had some huge games in his career too...but would you trust him with 20-30 carries a game...for 16 games...and perhaps the playoffs? Hell no, he's not big enough to hold up being given the lion's share of carries.

In fact it's a growing trend around the NFL to use two to three RB's to generate your running attack. Look at what the Giants did last year, and the year they had Dayne and Barber. And the Jags with Taylor and Jones-Drew, the Panthers with Stewart and Williams, the Cowboys when they had Jones and Barber....the Ravens with McClain, McGahee, and Rice.

The teams using just one dominant RB are getting fewer and fewer....I think each goes with what works for them and evidently being 10-0 means RB by commitee works in New Orleans.

strafen
11-26-2009, 10:49 AM
I truly believe he's had chances this year, and hasn't done much with them. Hopefully he'll get more. We could use another hammer, for sure.How can you be taken serious when you make these type of comments, man.
Come on!!!
Have you seen Hillis play a full game this season?
One or two plays in a game evey other week or so qualifies to you as given chances?
Yikes!

errand
11-26-2009, 10:51 AM
How can you be taken serious when you make this type of comments, man.
Come on!!!
Have you seen Hillis play a full game this season?
One or two plays in a game evey other week or so qualifies to you as given chances?
Yikes!

It's been my understanding that playing time on Sunday is earned by making plays Monday thru Friday....you tell me.

errand
11-26-2009, 10:57 AM
I dont want complex offense that scores only 3 points.

Peyton Hillis is a stud..I would take him over any of our current RBs.
Its funny that people are giving excuses for not starting Hillis.

I think Hillis might have done something bad personally to Mcd.
Thats the reason he is not starting.

...yeah, so was JMFW, huh?

You clowns must have missed the part where it took 6, that's right 6 RB's to be placed on IR before he even saw the field last season. That means this beast that you would take over Moreno and Buckhalter was 7th on the depth chart in Mike's offense.

So did he do something bad personally to Mike last year, and injuries made Mike play him out of neccesity? And if he did, who is the one constant in this situation of coaches not playing him more than his alleged immense talent suggests he should play?

If a guy has been married several times when do you start to wonder if the problem is him and not the seven wives?

strafen
11-26-2009, 10:58 AM
It's been my understanding that playing time on Sunday is earned by making plays Monday thru Friday....you tell me.So that's probably why Moreno and Jordan are in and Hillis is not, huh?
Playing time is earned on Sundays when you are given a good share of plays to do your thing on the field.
So far Moreno has not proven that's the case at all. He may have earned his playing time M-F but he's certainly stinking it it up on Sundays.

strafen
11-26-2009, 11:02 AM
...yeah, so was JMFW, huh?

You clowns must have missed the part where it took 6, that's right 6 RB's to be placed on IR before he even saw the field last season. That means this beast that you would take over Moreno and Buckhalter was 7th on the depth chart in Mike's offense.

So did he do something bad personally to Mike last year, and injuries made Mike play him out of neccesity? And if he did, who is the one constant in this situation of coaches not playing him more than his alleged immense talent suggests he should play?

If a guy has been married several times when do you start to wonder if the problem is him and not the seven wives?

Hiils was a rookie. Hillis is a FB not a RB.
When the injuries happened he was given his chance to be in the line-up and play, and he never looked back.

Why do you insist on defending Moreno over Hillis?
Please!
Haven't you seen enough already?
He's bordering bust status as we speak.
He has had no impact on any game this season at all.
Look at the Hillis videos from the time he started to play, and you will see the immediate impact he brought ot this offense by blocking, running with authority and catching the ball.
Wake up.

errand
11-26-2009, 11:05 AM
Did you guys know that he's white?

...(with apologies to Eddie Murphy)

"Oh, there they go, there they go again...every damn time we start talking about Bronco RB's, a white man's gotta pull Peyton Hillis out their ass.....that's their one, that's their one...Peyton Hillis, Peyton Hillis"

..and since you're gay, I guess pulling him out of your ass would make it literally, huh?

bpc
11-26-2009, 11:06 AM
Really...care to name any former Broncos player on another team's roster right now that make you "sigh" wonder what might have been?

There's been plenty. Some have had trade-offs like Clinton Portis. Ashley Lelie is another even though he kind of forced his hand. Chris Myers was a guy that I thought had great skill and was just coming into his own. Desmond Clark had great potential in front of him before he was abrubtly cut. He's now been in the league 8 or so year's now.

Bert Berry and Reggie Hayward were guys that had a lot of potential in front of them when they weren't resigned. Nate Wayne was a guy who blew up on the scene as a 7th round draft pick (didn't research that but kinda remember it) and then we let him go for next to nothing. Then of course Tory James and Deltha O'Neal went on to get countless interceptions in a bengals uniform. I was more disappointed with losing James who looked like he would be a stud for us until he blew out his knee. He didn't come back right for about 3 or 4 years.

Those names sit on the top of my mind. I'm pretty sure Hillis will probably fit in this mold as well, eventually.

oubronco
11-26-2009, 11:09 AM
...yeah, so was JMFW, huh?

You clowns must have missed the part where it took 6, that's right 6 RB's to be placed on IR before he even saw the field last season. That means this beast that you would take over Moreno and Buckhalter was 7th on the depth chart in Mike's offense.

So did he do something bad personally to Mike last year, and injuries made Mike play him out of neccesity? And if he did, who is the one constant in this situation of coaches not playing him more than his alleged immense talent suggests he should play?

If a guy has been married several times when do you start to wonder if the problem is him and not the seven wives?

Hillis saw time on the field before all thosa rb's were injured but if you have proof that he sat on the bench until 7 rb's went on IR then lets see it

TonyR
11-26-2009, 11:10 AM
He's bordering bust status as we speak.


16th in the league in rushing, leading all rookies. I think "bust" is perhaps going a bit too far. Our run blocking hasn't been great and we're facing a lot of D close to the LOS. He's going to be fine.

oubronco
11-26-2009, 11:10 AM
Hiils was a rookie. Hillis is a FB not a RB.
When the injuries happened he was given his chance to be in the line-up and play, and he never looked back.

Why do you insist on defending Moreno over Hillis?
Please!
Haven't you seen enough already?
He's bordering bust status as we speak.
He has had no impact on any game this season at all.
Look at the Hillis videos from the time he started to play, and you will see the immediate impact he brought ot this offense by blocking, running with authority and catching the ball.
Wake up.

Exactly rep

cabronco
11-26-2009, 11:12 AM
I dont want complex offense that scores only 3 points.

Peyton Hillis is a stud..I would take him over any of our current RBs.
Its funny that people are giving excuses for not starting Hillis.

I think Hillis might have done something bad personally to Mcd.
Thats the reason he is not starting.

I agree, if we can only score 3 in this complex offense, than go less complex and find ways to get Hillis the damn ball. I am a little pissed that Hillis has seen very limited action, when we saw last year what he can do, in more than one area too. I can see the writing on the wall. McD will let Hillis go next year and he will excel wherever he goes. I like McD, but times like these I miss the Shanahan lead offense where we saw Stokley more involved, Scheffler more involved, Royal, BM, and Hillis all making big plays. Right now this dink & dunk offense looks lame & predictable.

mr007
11-26-2009, 11:13 AM
I think I can explain why he didn't start and hasn't started much. Hillis is not a system back, he clearly doesn't run well with a lead blocker and I believe he is most efficient in the type of run scheme they have at Arkansas where the offense tries to spread out and open up many gaps and the let the RB chose the right opportunity.

Whenever I see Hillis do well he is running off tackle from a single back formation or he is running a 1 cut route in a stretch play. To really take advantage of his skills you have to get him in space and let him go 1 on 1 with a defender. Unfortunately that is not a stable way to have a run game since it relies on at least a 1 to 1 blocker to defender ratio which is hard to achieve when running outside consistently since the defense will cheat to the running side and outman the offensive line on that side and leave the backside unprotected.

Hillis is in my estimation very good at what he does, but he is not the complete package you can build an offense around. I am concerned that he is not seeing more time out of the backfield though, he is clearly the best RB in the flat.

Wtf are you talking about, we run almost all of our plays out of a single back formation... you are pretty much identifying our offense as something he'd be productive in.

Bronx33
11-26-2009, 11:14 AM
Hillis, a guy who was thrown into the fire last year when all of our RB's went down, and to perform the way he did in such a short notice not only was remarkable, but blows this circulating BS out of the water.
This is the most ignorant crap I've heard in a while.
The guy is not stupid. McD brought his "own" guys to carry the ball for him; C-Buck, Lamont Jordan, and Moreno who he got in the draft.
That made Hillis the odd man out.
Quit trying to speculate and read into BS stories that not me, and not you know anything about what really is going on.
People are trying to get into Hillis head to say stuff like, Hillis thinks this, Hillis thinkls that, baloney. Who does really know what he's thinking?
I just want Hillis to be given a chance to play a whole freaking game solid.
A considerable playing time and let him loose.
I guarantee you that if that was to happen, all of this crap being talked about will change right quick.
There will be a lot of new dumbasses born that day...


Yep hillis is simply getting the short end of the stick from MCD.

oubronco
11-26-2009, 11:15 AM
I agree, if we can only score 3 in this complex offense, than go less complex and find ways to get Hillis the damn ball. I am a little pissed that Hillis has seen very limited action, when we saw last year what he can do, in more than one area too. I can see the writing on the wall. McD will let Hillis go next year and he will excel wherever he goes. I like McD, but times like these I miss the Shanahan lead offense where we saw Stokley more involved, Scheffler more involved, Royal, BM, and Hillis all making big plays. Right now this dink & dunk offense looks lame & predictable.

well you are right but we will see alot more of the same old same old this is McD's killer offense and he's not about to scrap it

errand
11-26-2009, 11:16 AM
Hiils was a rookie. Hillis is a FB not a RB.
When the injuries happened he was given his chance to be in the line-up and play, and he never looked back.

Why do you insist on defending Moreno over Hillis?
Please!
Haven't you seen enough already?
He's bordering bust status as we speak.
He has had no impact on any game this season at all.
Look at the Hillis videos from the time he started to play, and you will see the immediate impact he brought ot this offense by blocking, running with authority and catching the ball.
Wake up.

Doesn't matter what I think or see....I'm not the head coach of the Broncos...nor am I the offensive coordinator, nor am I his position coach.

So this is two seasons in which Hillis was not the starting RB of the Denver Broncos on opening day.

Neither Mike Shanahan, nor Josh McDaniels saw what you claim to be immense talent going to waste....and as you implied, have chosen to ignore it.

Two NFL offensive coordinators have also chose to ignore the all-worldly talents of one Peyton Hillis.

And two RB's coaches have also chosen to ignore this glorious example of male pultritude and luminosity.

Neither did 31 other NFL teams (who have dozens if not hundreds of college scouts BTW) in the first 6 rounds of the '08 draft.

Oh, and his college coach held him down as well, forcing him to share carries with McFadden and Jones.

I am really flattered that you think I'm just as good as Mike Shanahan, and Josh McDaniels when it comes to evaluating RB talent....you make me blush. Garrsh!

oubronco
11-26-2009, 11:17 AM
Doesn't matter what I think or see....I'm not the head coach of the Broncos...nor am I the offensive coordinator, nor am I his position coach.

So this is two seasons in which Hillis was not the starting RB of the Denver Broncos on opening day.

Neither Mike Shanahan, nor Josh McDaniels saw what you claim to be immense talent going to waste....and as you implied, have chosen to ignore it.

Two NFL offensive coordinators have also chose to ignore the all-worldly talents of one Peyton Hillis.

And two RB's coaches have also chosen to ignore this glorious example of male pultritude and luminosity.

Neither did 31 other NFL teams (who have dozens if not hundreds of college scouts BTW) in the first 6 rounds of the '08 draft.

Oh, and his college coach held him down as well, forcing him to share carries with McFadden and Jones.

I am really flattered that you think I'm just as good as Mike Shanahan, and Josh McDaniels when it comes to evaluating RB talent....you make me blush. Garrsh!

FB's rarely get drafted in the early rounds

broncolife
11-26-2009, 11:19 AM
Hillis saw time on the field before all thosa rb's were injured but if you have proof that he sat on the bench until 7 rb's went on IR then lets see it

He saw more action the first game of the season last year than he has saw this entire season.

broncolife
11-26-2009, 11:24 AM
Doesn't matter what I think or see....I'm not the head coach of the Broncos...nor am I the offensive coordinator, nor am I his position coach.

So this is two seasons in which Hillis was not the starting RB of the Denver Broncos on opening day.

Neither Mike Shanahan, nor Josh McDaniels saw what you claim to be immense talent going to waste....and as you implied, have chosen to ignore it.

Two NFL offensive coordinators have also chose to ignore the all-worldly talents of one Peyton Hillis.

And two RB's coaches have also chosen to ignore this glorious example of male pultritude and luminosity.

Neither did 31 other NFL teams (who have dozens if not hundreds of college scouts BTW) in the first 6 rounds of the '08 draft.

Oh, and his college coach held him down as well, forcing him to share carries with McFadden and Jones.

I am really flattered that you think I'm just as good as Mike Shanahan, and Josh McDaniels when it comes to evaluating RB talent....you make me blush. Garrsh!

Are you really bringing up the draft? I guess you dont remember TD and Mike Anderson.

errand
11-26-2009, 11:33 AM
There's been plenty. Some have had trade-offs like Clinton Portis. Ashley Lelie is another even though he kind of forced his hand. Chris Myers was a guy that I thought had great skill and was just coming into his own. Desmond Clark had great potential in front of him before he was abrubtly cut. He's now been in the league 8 or so year's now.

Bert Berry and Reggie Hayward were guys that had a lot of potential in front of them when they weren't resigned. Nate Wayne was a guy who blew up on the scene as a 7th round draft pick (didn't research that but kinda remember it) and then we let him go for next to nothing. Then of course Tory James and Deltha O'Neal went on to get countless interceptions in a bengals uniform. I was more disappointed with losing James who looked like he would be a stud for us until he blew out his knee. He didn't come back right for about 3 or 4 years.

Those names sit on the top of my mind. I'm pretty sure Hillis will probably fit in this mold as well, eventually.

I'm sorry...I thought you meant difference makers...

bpc
11-26-2009, 11:38 AM
I'm sorry...I thought you meant difference makers...

Do you actually watch football and understand the concept on the field?

Who cares if you don't. Happy thanksgiving bud.

errand
11-26-2009, 11:41 AM
Are you really bringing up the draft? I guess you dont remember TD and Mike Anderson.

OK, let's toss out the pro scouts...fair enough. So let's go with the two head coaches, coordinators and position coaches who have obviously chosen to ignore the next John Riggins getting splinters in his ass riding the pine behind several other less talented, underachieving, non-performing RB's.

As far as Davis and Anderson are concerned....

Yeah, they were 6th round steals...but they also weren't buried behind 7 other RB's on our roster either. They showed something in training camp, and during practice to make Mike put them in as either the undisputed/projected starter or when the undisputed/projected starter went down.

broncolife
11-26-2009, 12:04 PM
OK, let's toss out the pro scouts...fair enough. So let's go with the two head coaches, coordinators and position coaches who have obviously chosen to ignore the next John Riggins getting splinters in his ass riding the pine behind several other less talented, underachieving, non-performing RB's.

As far as Davis and Anderson are concerned....

Yeah, they were 6th round steals...but they also weren't buried behind 7 other RB's on our roster either. They showed something in training camp, and during practice to make Mike put them in as either the undisputed/projected starter or when the undisputed/projected starter went down.

So draft is eliminated. Good

Reasons for Shanny not starting Hillis RB.

-Shanny drafted Hillis to be FB.
-Hillis was playing FB
-Hillis was a late round rookie which needed time to develop his skills


The Point is Hillis wasnt brought in to be a running back, he was brought in to eventually be our starter at FB. He was then thrown to the dogs after all our rb options were out and he did a great job.He wasnt replaced when he was starting he got injured.I believe he would have been our starting rb with Larsen as our fb if Shanny would have stayed.

Now to Mcdaniels. I believe Hillis should have at least got a chance to show if he could repeat his performances from last year.He did look like our best back in preseason. Maybe play Hillis late in the game instead of the times we played Jordan. All I want is to see him get a chance, more than 4 carries for the season.He doesnt have to be a starter.

So I believe 1 coach is ignoring the next John Riggins:)

errand
11-26-2009, 12:05 PM
Do you actually watch football and understand the concept on the field?

Who cares if you don't. Happy thanksgiving bud.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family too.

For one who obviously has inferiro football watching skills, I have to note that ....

O'Neal snagged 34 career INT's...but he got 19 of them in two of his 10 seasons....that's 15 , or approximately 2 per year in the other ones.

Tory James didn't make the Pro Bowl until after he left the Raiders, and join the Bengals, which was his 3rd team....and was a nickleback until his 2nd season in Oakland as well.

Berry, I'll admit we could have used his 14.5 sacks in the first year he left us for Arizona, but he's not generated over 6 in any other season afterwards.

Hayward, he's like Berry, we could have used him and his 8.5 sacks the first seasson he was gone, but he had 9 sacks combined in the next 4 seasons.

Lelie? Now surely you jest! Your credibility was growing until you mentioned him.

The point being is none of these guys....with the exception of Portis, that you mentioned have done alot to distinguish themselves as difference makers or franchise players in the NFL. they have had their moments, I'll admit, but it's not like they're Dave Stewart who left the Dodgers and a couple of other teams only to win 20+ games with the Athletics.

errand
11-26-2009, 12:17 PM
FB's rarely get drafted in the early rounds

...OK, so to use your own argument against you, how is it other low round draftees excelled at the game and he hasn't?

Mike Anderson was a FB when he came to Denver, and he became our starting RB when Gary was injured, and Davis was still recovering from his injury. It did not take Mike nearly 3/4 of the season to discover that Mike Anderson could deliver. Selvyn Young ran for about 700 yards too as our FB thrust into the starting RB role.

The poiint being is that these guys weren't listed as 7th on the depth chart. They stood out in camp or practice to make their coaches take notice that they could make plays and could perform if the situation arose.

errand
11-26-2009, 12:28 PM
So that's probably why Moreno and Jordan are in and Hillis is not, huh?
Playing time is earned on Sundays when you are given a good share of plays to do your thing on the field.
So far Moreno has not proven that's the case at all. He may have earned his playing time M-F but he's certainly stinking it it up on Sundays.

I find amazing that a former QB that still throws for tons of INT's gets showered with love, but a rookie who has 4 fumbles is demonized on here.

...not to mention it's the only board where the team's 5th or 6th best back is praised as being the beast that would destroy the NFL if only the coach would put him in.

It's what scientists have called "Uncle Rico Syndrome"

http://www.hulu.com/watch/8725/napoleon-dynamite-uncle-rico-throws-a-steak

Popps
11-26-2009, 12:34 PM
Buckhalter made plays in Philly too TJ...but he's not the same player as Westbrook is. Last season he averaged 4.9 ypc to Westbrooks 4.0. He averaged 12.5 yards per catch to Westbrook's 7.4. So Andy Reid must be yet another moron who intentionally holds back the better players in order to satisfy his enormous ego, right?

You can't give the ball to Buckhalter 20 times a game. The guy would break in half. That's common knowledge.

McDaniels wisely does his best to keep Bucklahter fresh, so he's explosive and a nice counter to Moreno.

It's just logical coaching.

Popps
11-26-2009, 12:39 PM
I find amazing that a former QB that still throws for tons of INT's gets showered with love, but a rookie who has 4 fumbles is demonized on here.

...not to mention it's the only board where the team's 5th or 6th best back is praised as being the beast that would destroy the NFL if only the coach would put him in.

It starts as a product of people simply not knowing what they're looking at. (Assuming Cutler is a "franchise" QB, for example.)

Then, when reality starts to set in.... after months of arguing a flawed thesis... those same people turn to desperation. (Trashing a productive rookie like Moreno, etc.)

errand
11-26-2009, 12:40 PM
You can't give the ball to Buckhalter 20 times a game. The guy would break in half. That's common knowledge.

McDaniels wisely does his best to keep Bucklahter fresh, so he's explosive and a nice counter to Moreno.

It's just logical coaching.

Exactly....but, who are these NFL coaches who have done this for their entire working lives to question the likes of internet wanna-be coaches like TJ, and bpc, et. al.?

My point is that you cannot just look at numbers and say this guy is capable of doing this 20-30 times a game for 16 games when the fact is they probably cannot due to the wear and tear they'd be exposed to.

errand
11-26-2009, 12:44 PM
It starts as a product of people simply not knowing what they're looking at. (Assuming Cutler is a "franchise" QB, for example.)

Then, when reality starts to set in.... after months of arguing a flawed thesis... those same people turn to desperation. (Trashing a productive rookie like Moreno, etc.)

...and how quick will they be to jump on his bandwagon when he finally does have that monster game and doesn't fumble the ball.

These guys amaze me...for years all we've heard is how elway played with a bunch of losers, and carried us to the SB during the 80's and early 90's....and yet when some other team's fan points out what a piece of crap Sammy Winder or Vance Johnson was, these same guys who trashed them all of a sudden defend them to the end of the world...go figure.

I guess it's like that old saying..."I can call my sister a whore...but nobody else better do it."

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 01:28 PM
Hillis is a freaking beast! Somehow he got on Joshie's badside. He is the most versitale player we have including Larsen. Try to make up stuff to blame him but it isn't his head or his talent!

mr007
11-26-2009, 01:30 PM
I guess it's like that old saying..."I can call my sister a whore...but nobody else better do it."

In fairness, she has slept with half of the people here.

Popps
11-26-2009, 01:38 PM
Hillis is a freaking beast! Somehow he got on Joshie's badside. He is the most versitale player we have including Larsen. Try to make up stuff to blame him but it isn't his head or his talent!

Huh?

So, Shanahan and McDaniels both chose to bench him to purposely hurt their own teams?

Again, I'm waiting for an explanation as to why two offensive masterminds would purposely choose NOT to make Hillis a starter without good reason?

Why did Shanahan and McDaniels choose to purposely hurt their own team?

JJJ
11-26-2009, 01:50 PM
If you are not going to use that guy send him to San Diego.

We will trade Hester for him straight up. Hester is smart. Can't play football all that well but is smart so McD might like him.

I cannot for the life of me after seeing what I saw of that Hillis animal last year why he is not on the field. As a Bolt fan I am only very thankful he is not.

Really a mind bender why he isn't being used.

broncolife
11-26-2009, 01:57 PM
...OK, so to use your own argument against you, how is it other low round draftees excelled at the game and he hasn't?

Mike Anderson was a FB when he came to Denver, and he became our starting RB when Gary was injured, and Davis was still recovering from his injury. It did not take Mike nearly 3/4 of the season to discover that Mike Anderson could deliver. Selvyn Young ran for about 700 yards too as our FB thrust into the starting RB role.

The poiint being is that these guys weren't listed as 7th on the depth chart. They stood out in camp or practice to make their coaches take notice that they could make plays and could perform if the situation arose.

No Mike Anderson was a RB when we drafted him. Shanny is the one who turned him into a FB.

"It's always tough to lose a guy like that," coach Mike Shanahan said. "But he will be good for the future. He's proved that he can play tailback in the National Football League, and that one catch he made was probably as good a catch as you could make in a very tough situation and unfortunately, he pulled his hamstring making that catch."

Sure looks like Shanny realised what he had after Hillis played. To bad Mcdaniels doesnt.

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 02:24 PM
Huh?

So, Shanahan and McDaniels both chose to bench him to purposely hurt their own teams?


Shanny drafted him as a FB and as a FB with made recieving skills he excelled, and when his turn came to carry the rock at Tail he dominated till HE WAS HURT AND WENT ON IR....HE WASN'T BENCHED BY SHANNY DumbShiiiit!!

Gort
11-26-2009, 02:26 PM
I agree, if we can only score 3 in this complex offense, than go less complex and find ways to get Hillis the damn ball. I am a little pissed that Hillis has seen very limited action, when we saw last year what he can do, in more than one area too. I can see the writing on the wall. McD will let Hillis go next year and he will excel wherever he goes. I like McD, but times like these I miss the Shanahan lead offense where we saw Stokley more involved, Scheffler more involved, Royal, BM, and Hillis all making big plays. Right now this dink & dunk offense looks lame & predictable.

i agree with this. why has McD completely overhauled the O? none of our playmakers from last year seem to be getting much of a chance to make plays this year. and if i see one more bubble screen to the WR, i'm going to stick a pair of scissors into a wall socket! at this point... dink & dunk = 3 and punt.

a more experienced coach would have made the transition from WC to NE style offense over the course of 2 or 3 seasons, while accumulating players well suited for the new scheme. i'm not off the McD bandwagon, but when your offense goes 5 games and shows it's unable to score more than 1 TD per game, you have to sit down and reconsider EVERYTHING you might be doing wrong!

theAPAOps5
11-26-2009, 02:26 PM
Shanny drafted him as a FB and as a FB with made recieving skills he excelled, and when his turn came to carry the rock at Tail he dominated till HE WAS HURT AND WENT ON IR....HE WASN'T BENCHED BY SHANNY DumbShiiiit!!

Did you write about this in your local rag aka Myspace?

orinjkrush
11-26-2009, 02:26 PM
i SAW Hillis on the field.

I would like to see more.

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 02:26 PM
Mike Anderon was a killer Tailback here at Utah..never took a snap at FB before Shany asked him too. Selvin Young wasn't ever a FB either! Damn fools! Get your facts right! LOL!

broncolife
11-26-2009, 02:28 PM
i agree with this. why has McD completely overhauled the O? none of our playmakers from last year seem to be getting much of a chance to make plays this year. and if i see one more bubble screen to the WR, i'm going to stick a pair of scissors into a wall socket! at this point... dink & dunk = 3 and punt.

a more experienced coach would have made the transition from WC to NE style offense over the course of 2 or 3 seasons, while accumulating players well suited for the new scheme. i'm not off the McD bandwagon, but when your offense goes 5 games and shows it's unable to score more than 1 TD per game, you have to sit down and reconsider EVERYTHING you might be doing wrong!
And the funny thing is we were starting to introduce some things the patriots did on O into our O last year.

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 02:29 PM
Did you write about this in your local rag aka Myspace?

Love ignorant Haters! Never write for my myspace..hell hardly ever even blog..lol..only a City weekly article or too..thanks for asking!

theAPAOps5
11-26-2009, 02:30 PM
Love ignorant Haters! Never write for my myspace..hell hardly ever even blog..lol..only a City weekly article or too..thanks for asking!

Who doesn't care about editing or quality or sentence structure. I could keep going but its just not fair.

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 02:37 PM
And the funny thing is we were starting to introduce some things the patriots did on O into our O last year.

The funny thing is that WC and the Spread passing game aren't that much different (Invented the same place and same coach..but that is another arguement), although the running game has alot of differences between Shanny's Run game and the McD run game. McD's running attack is overly complicated and convoluted with traps and pulling lineman that isn't nearly as effective as our time tested Dominating Zone blocking attack. Untill Washinton we didn't have so much as a hint of misdirection or counter action, and no roll outs or bootlegs like I had been whining about since Baltimore. What do you know Orton all of a sudden has time to get the ball deep and our run has made some huge gains! Wow who knew? Oh wait...ME!!

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 02:39 PM
Who doesn't care about editing or quality or sentence structure. I could keep going but its just not fair.

My sentance structure is just fine, and don't really spell check every dumb post...Anal much? Why don't you actually have something to say that is factual or relevant before you open your crap-hole!!

Popps
11-26-2009, 02:58 PM
Shanny drafted him as a FB and as a FB with made recieving skills he excelled, and when his turn came to carry the rock at Tail he dominated till HE WAS HURT AND WENT ON IR....HE WASN'T BENCHED BY SHANNY DumbShiiiit!!

Wow, well first off... congrats for one post without a picture of yourself. You have to start somewhere.

Second, I never said Shanahan didn't draft him as a fullback.

What I said was, he averaged 5 ypc in college. Shanahan AND Turner had plenty of time to analyze him as a runner and both chose NOT to start him.

Now, McDaniels has followed suit.

Clearly, there's something that these offensive-minded coaches are seeing that you are not. (As hard as that may be for everyone to believe.)

Anyway, resume your babble and self-portrait posting...

theAPAOps5
11-26-2009, 03:08 PM
My sentance structure is just fine, and don't really spell check every dumb post...Anal much? Why don't you actually have something to say that is factual or relevant before you open your crap-hole!!

How about posting up that piece of trash you tried to pass off as an article again and let the public decide again. Last time you became such a laughing stock you pulled down in under a day. Keep it up and lets see just how "good" it is. If not shut your crap-hole!

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 03:12 PM
Wow, well first off... congrats for one post without a picture of yourself. You have to start somewhere.

Second, I never said Shanahan didn't draft him as a fullback.

What I said was, he averaged 5 ypc in college. Shanahan AND Turner had plenty of time to analyze him as a runner and both chose NOT to start him.

Now, McDaniels has followed suit.

Anyway, resume your babble and self-portrait posting...

Funny...have only posted self pics when I was making fun of myself or was messing with other rtards like you!
Second Hillis was in a backfield with Felix Jones and McFaggen, and neither of those guys can block their way out of a wet paper sack!!
The point I disagreed with is that Shanny BENCHED him. Once he showed he could carry the rock in the NFL he was the starter and was the secoind coming of John Alstott. He didn't start at the first of the season, and was also the best FB option, like Mike Anderson in his rookie year...but that doesn't mean he wasn't a great TB option. Anderson ran for 1600 yards in 3/4 of a season..but Shanny had him at Fullback till injuries thrust him into starting at tail. Did Anderson suck at TB.... or did Shanny make the wrong opening day call for the starter in O Gary?? T Davis was the 5th Tailback in the preseason till he laid out a guy on a ST tackle in Japan. The rest is history!

Popps
11-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Funny...have only posted self pics when I was making fun of myself or was messing with other rtards like you!


Yea, I've seen what a huge fan club you've built up around here.

Look, I've been a huge fan of Hillis. I simply said there's got to be a reason that two great coaches chose to have him be a back-up.

You've offered no explanation other than you like him, and you want to call people names.

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 03:16 PM
How about posting up that piece of trash you tried to pass off as an article again and let the public decide again. Last time you became such a laughing stock you pulled down in under a day. Keep it up and lets see just how "good" it is. If not shut your crap-hole!

Funny that it was on another site originally for a month and I got over 50 high 5's and some editing help in the first 30 minutes and then I put it up here for ten minutes and losers like you find reasons to talk crap on it. Is it the site? The article, or the assholes like you that can't actually talk football so you just talk smack? Maybe when you are old enough to have nut hair you will actually be able to discuss football ;)

theAPAOps5
11-26-2009, 03:16 PM
Yeah didn't think you would want to be laughed at again.

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 03:24 PM
Yea, I've seen what a huge fan club you've built up around here.

Look, I've been a huge fan of Hillis. I simply said there's got to be a reason that two great coaches chose to have him be a back-up.

You've offered no explanation other than you like him, and you want to call people names.

Yeah I shouldn't call the infirm names..my bad! As for Hillis, the guy excelled in shanny's offense in blocking, pass receiving and was crushing at Tailback, and the only thing that kept him from being the biggest suprise at Rookie Tailback in the league was the injury. Pittman was slotted for FB too, never played a down at that position in his whole 10 yr career and had a great YPC at Tail for us. Just because he wasn't the opening day starter doesn't mean that he was mentally deficient or negate his success when he got his shot.

McD's running offense is overly convoluted and the restults have shown on the field. Again Felix and Darren were flashy and might be a more natural fit at TB but a bruiser with great catching hands who runs over people would be a great change of pace. Go backi and look at the interview with McDaniels where he was listing the Positions he planned to use Hillis; FB.TB, HB, TE WR!!! That sound like a coach who thought hillis was stupid or lazy? He got in the doghouse somehow...who knows why!?

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 03:25 PM
Yeah didn't think you would want to be laughed at again.

Let me know when you have something adult or football related to say!

houghtam
11-26-2009, 03:42 PM
It sure doesn't seem like people are hearing Popps' argument. Instead of really thinking about it, they see what he did for 3.5 games a year ago and assume he was headed for the Hall. Yeah, 3 games with 10+ attempts last year. 1 100 yard game. The stuff of legends.

No instead they take the easy road and play the blame game.

What else is new?

To the point at hand, I agree 100%. Popps is assuming that last year's performance over a short period of time meant he had good skills. He's just inferring that, since it seems Hillis has had to work harder than anyone with such great skills just to see the field under 3 separate coaches, maybe something else is at play here.

It's worth a thought.

But these "Hillis is God, well not THE God but A god" posts are hilarious.

theAPAOps5
11-26-2009, 03:55 PM
Let me know when you have something adult or football related to say!

Sure thing but it would be over your head.

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 03:59 PM
Aperson can see what Popps was saying and still think he is wrong. I don't think it is so0mething mental that says he can't be a great starter or change of pace at Running back. Shanny's use of him in the offense, and even McDaniels comments in mini camp about the 6 positions he planned to play him at (Obviously McD had watched all the film on him) suggests that it just may be something other than being a dummy ;)

oubronco
11-26-2009, 04:01 PM
...OK, so to use your own argument against you, how is it other low round draftees excelled at the game and he hasn't?

Mike Anderson was a FB when he came to Denver, and he became our starting RB when Gary was injured, and Davis was still recovering from his injury. It did not take Mike nearly 3/4 of the season to discover that Mike Anderson could deliver. Selvyn Young ran for about 700 yards too as our FB thrust into the starting RB role.

The poiint being is that these guys weren't listed as 7th on the depth chart. They stood out in camp or practice to make their coaches take notice that they could make plays and could perform if the situation arose.

It's simple..................McD

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Sure thing but it would be over your head.

Hilarious! Try me! I played the game, coached the game (Middle schoolers..lol) and have been watching the Broncos since before your punk B ass was a twinkle in your dad's eye Hilarious!

Archer81
11-26-2009, 04:18 PM
Hilarious! Try me! I played the game, coached the game (Middle schoolers..lol) and have been watching the Broncos since before your punk B ass was a twinkle in your dad's eye Hilarious!


What? Saying bitch is a problem for you? Is it like water on the witch? You say it and melt down into a heavy metal puddle of hair care products and acid wash jeans?


:Broncos:

houghtam
11-26-2009, 04:20 PM
Aperson can see what Popps was saying and still think he is wrong. I don't think it is so0mething mental that says he can't be a great starter or change of pace at Running back. Shanny's use of him in the offense, and even McDaniels comments in mini camp about the 6 positions he planned to play him at (Obviously McD had watched all the film on him) suggests that it just may be something other than being a dummy ;)

Okay, sure you disagree with Popps' first point. His second (and mine), is that you're putting your football knowledge and what you've seen from his 300 career rushing yards above what McD's seen so far and every day in practice?

Hmm, no thanks. I'll take McD's opinion anyday.

errand
11-26-2009, 04:28 PM
Mike Anderon was a killer Tailback here at Utah..never took a snap at FB before Shany asked him too. Selvin Young wasn't ever a FB either! Damn fools! Get your facts right! LOL!


Regardless...the point being is they made enough of an impression on the coaching staff to not have been buried so far on the depth chart that it took 6 RB's getting injured before they saw the field on gameday.

I mean c'mon, Mike was so impressed with Hillis that he signed Tatum Bell from a Verizon kiosk at Cherry Creek Mall to replace him.

errand
11-26-2009, 04:33 PM
It sure doesn't seem like people are hearing Popps' argument. Instead of really thinking about it, they see what he did for 3.5 games a year ago and assume he was headed for the Hall. Yeah, 3 games with 10+ attempts last year. 1 100 yard game. The stuff of legends.


Exactly....this beast among children was given 11 or more carries twice last season, and he gained 120 in one and 88 in another...that's about 61% of all his yardage in two games...and he was eventually replaced by some clown who was selling LG phones with unlimited texting.

Play2win
11-26-2009, 04:39 PM
Hillis to McD: "People can change, Doc."

theAPAOps5
11-26-2009, 04:43 PM
Hilarious! Try me! I played the game, coached the game (Middle schoolers..lol) and have been watching the Broncos since before your punk B ass was a twinkle in your dad's eye Hilarious!

Yeah I know you have said this a lot, so much so we all know it isn't true. Keep it up mullet boy I am having a good laugh at your expense.....AGAIN! :spit:

houghtam
11-26-2009, 04:50 PM
Exactly....this beast among children was given 11 or more carries twice last season, and he gained 120 in one and 88 in another...that's about 61% of all his yardage in two games...and he was eventually replaced by some clown who was selling LG phones with unlimited texting.

Ya.

Peyton Hillis last year - Started 6 games, 68 attempts, 343 yards, 5.0 ypc average, 5 TDs.

Tatum Bell last year - Started 3 games, 44 attempts, 249 yards, 5.7 ypc average, 2 TDs.

Why aren't people yelling that McD should be signing Tatum?

I'm sure people will get angry at me for saying this, but I think the possible answer rhymes with "shmreat shmwhite shmype".

broncolife
11-26-2009, 04:51 PM
Regardless...the point being is they made enough of an impression on the coaching staff to not have been buried so far on the depth chart that it took 6 RB's getting injured before they saw the field on gameday.

I mean c'mon, Mike was so impressed with Hillis that he signed Tatum Bell from a Verizon kiosk at Cherry Creek Mall to replace him.

How many times have we heard Shanny being impressed with someone and then we never hear thier name?Who cares what Shanny thought of Hillis before he played, what matters is how Shanny felt after he played in a game.

NYBronco
11-26-2009, 04:57 PM
Ya.

Peyton Hillis last year - Started 6 games, 68 attempts, 343 yards, 5.0 ypc average, 5 TDs.

Tatum Bell last year - Started 3 games, 44 attempts, 249 yards, 5.7 ypc average, 2 TDs.

Why aren't people yelling that McD should be signing Tatum?

I'm sure people will get angry at me for saying this, but I think the possible answer rhymes with "shmreat shmwhite shmype".

Bobby Turner... no that can't be it.

Bronco Warrior
11-26-2009, 05:00 PM
How many times have we heard Shanny being impressed with someone and then we never hear thier name?Who cares what Shanny thought of Hillis before he played, what matters is how Shanny felt after he played in a game.

Don't sweat them B Life....you can't fix stupid! Great point by the way. And as far as Tatum Bell, he did play strong for us but he is a back that really did end up with a screw loose! ask Detroit! We just signed him cause he knew the offense already!

strafen
11-26-2009, 05:32 PM
Doesn't matter what I think or see....I'm not the head coach of the Broncos...nor am I the offensive coordinator, nor am I his position coach.

So this is two seasons in which Hillis was not the starting RB of the Denver Broncos on opening day.

Neither Mike Shanahan, nor Josh McDaniels saw what you claim to be immense talent going to waste....and as you implied, have chosen to ignore it.

Two NFL offensive coordinators have also chose to ignore the all-worldly talents of one Peyton Hillis.

And two RB's coaches have also chosen to ignore this glorious example of male pultritude and luminosity.

Neither did 31 other NFL teams (who have dozens if not hundreds of college scouts BTW) in the first 6 rounds of the '08 draft.

Oh, and his college coach held him down as well, forcing him to share carries with McFadden and Jones.

I am really flattered that you think I'm just as good as Mike Shanahan, and Josh McDaniels when it comes to evaluating RB talent....you make me blush. Garrsh!All you have to rely on as far as Hillis is concerned, is his performance that is yet to be topped by Cbuck and/or Moreno
It doesn't matter where he was drafted at.
He was drafted by his versatility and what he brings to the game.
Where a player gets drafted in the first round or in the 7th round is irrelevant until you see that player pay dividends on the field, and Hillis paid off last year.
I leave you with that...

strafen
11-26-2009, 05:36 PM
Regardless...the point being is they made enough of an impression on the coaching staff to not have been buried so far on the depth chart that it took 6 RB's getting injured before they saw the field on gameday.

I mean c'mon, Mike was so impressed with Hillis that he signed Tatum Bell from a Verizon kiosk at Cherry Creek Mall to replace him.Again, if you've ever followed the way Shanahan operates(d) he hardly ever starts a rookie. He didn't know what he had in Hillis until he started to see playing action out of necessity when our running game was depleted by injuries.

I'm sure at this point, Shanahan was pleased to see what he saw out of Hillis...

Popps
11-26-2009, 06:14 PM
Let me know when you have something adult or football related to say!

Oh, you mean like posting pictures of your new hair-do?

Yea, you're one to tell people about staying on-topic.

Anyway, don't let me interrupt another episode of you making friends around here. Please, continue to "wow" us with your stellar football insight.

Popps
11-26-2009, 06:17 PM
Again, if you've ever followed the way Shanahan operates(d) he hardly ever starts a rookie. He didn't know what he had in Hillis until he started to see playing action out of necessity when our running game was depleted by injuries.

I'm sure at this point, Shanahan was pleased to see what he saw out of Hillis...

Shanahan started rookies plenty. The best RB in Broncos history started as rookie, and Shanahan continually gave rookies carries after that.

So, despite that CLEAR history of giving the ball to rookies, Shanahan AND Turner decided NOT to give Hillis a shot at the starting job, even with multiple injuries. It was only out of pure necessity that he got carries.

So, again... TWO great offensive coaches and a great RB coach have made the same decision, despite how cool Hillis' Youtube videos look.

As I said, unless you believe Shanahan and McDaniels purposely tried to harm their own teams, there must be another answer.

houghtam
11-26-2009, 09:25 PM
Again, if you've ever followed the way Shanahan operates(d) he hardly ever starts a rookie. He didn't know what he had in Hillis until he started to see playing action out of necessity when our running game was depleted by injuries.

I'm sure at this point, Shanahan was pleased to see what he saw out of Hillis...

Wow. What a post full of complete and utter falsehood. 6 out of Shanahan's 14 seasons, he had a rookie as the team's leading rusher.

You could be arguing Newton's 1st Law right now and no one would believe you. You've lost all credibility.

Popps
11-26-2009, 09:32 PM
Larsen was getting work at FB over Hillis.

Isn't Larsen a Shanahan guy?

Again... yet more questions that no one seems to be able to answer regarding the Hillis "conspiracy."


Doesn't matter. Moreno showed you why this is a totally moot conversation. Moreno is our workhorse, and backs like Buckhalter will be splitting carries with him.

That's our future, and it looks bright.

azbroncfan
11-26-2009, 09:34 PM
Larsen was getting work at FB over Hillis.

Isn't Larsen a Shanahan guy?

Again... yet more questions that no one seems to be able to answer regarding the Hillis "conspiracy."


Doesn't matter. Moreno showed you why this is a totally moot conversation. Moreno is our workhorse, and backs like Buckhalter will be splitting carries with him.

That's our future, and it looks bright.

Moreno finally showed the explosion that he had at Georgia.

Archer81
11-26-2009, 09:38 PM
Does it matter as long as Moreno and Buckhalter are getting it done?


:Broncos:

errand
11-26-2009, 09:40 PM
Moreno had a great game tonight..and againwe got clowns in here bitching about some 4th stringer not playing enough

TonyR
11-26-2009, 09:42 PM
Moreno had a great game tonight..and againwe got clowns in here b****ing about some 4th stringer not playing enough

If only we still had Mike Bell. Just ask bpc, Bell is better than Moreno.

Archer81
11-26-2009, 09:42 PM
Moreno had a great game tonight..and againwe got clowns in here b****ing about some 4th stringer not playing enough


Hillis is a utility guy, can do multiple things. If we see him get regular work in the backfield then a repeat of the RB pandemic of 08 happened and it wont be a good thing.


:Broncos:

strafen
11-26-2009, 09:47 PM
Moreno had a great game tonight..and againwe got clowns in here b****ing about some 4th stringer not playing enoughLet me know when he gets a 100-yard game...

Yes he had a nice game, but he stalled a lot. We saw flashes of what he can do, but he has done nothing yet...

He needs to establish himself by being more consistent, that's why Marshall got on his ass last week, and he finally decided to play with the fire and determination he should've all season long...

houghtam
11-26-2009, 09:50 PM
Let me know when he gets a 100-yard game... Shanahan doesn't start rookies.

Yes he had a nice game, but he stalled a lot. We saw flashes of what he can do, but he has done nothing yet...I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

He needs to establish himself by being more consistent, that's why Marshall got on his ass last week, and he finally decided to play with the fire and determination he should've all season long...I've never watched a game of football in my life.

Fixed it for ya.

Archer81
11-26-2009, 09:52 PM
Let me know when he gets a 100-yard game...

Yes he had a nice game, but he stalled a lot. We saw flashes of what he can do, but he has done nothing yet...

He needs to establish himself by being more consistent, that's why Marshall got on his ass last week, and he finally decided to play with the fire and determination he should've all season long...


Adrian Peterson has 3 100 yard games in 10 weeks of play. Is he less of a back because he doesnt get 100 week in and out, or is he more effective because he is part of a solid rotation? NFL football right now uses a back rotation, the teams that win consistently have multiple guys carrying the football, which adds to a back's longevity and keeps them from wearing down. Quit with the negative attitude about a rookie because you have a hardon for Hillis.

:Broncos:

broncolife
11-26-2009, 09:53 PM
Moreno had a great game tonight..and againwe got clowns in here b****ing about some 4th stringer not playing enough

Yes Moreno had a good game, but dont forget this is suppose to be a Peyton Hillis bashing thread.

listopencil
11-26-2009, 11:23 PM
Moreno had a great game tonight..and againwe got clowns in here b****ing about some 4th stringer not playing enough

Well, I was only bitching when we couldn't pick up third and short with Moreno or Buck, but Hillis hasn't been doing any better. For whatever reason he simply isn't as effective as he was last year. It's too bad because he looked pretty good-but he did it to himself with his poor play.

Kaylore
11-26-2009, 11:31 PM
Very good point. That was also a very complicated offense and he was able to perform not only in the run game but also the passing game. Shanahan also trusted him enough to leave him in to pass protect. I find it hard to believe that he's suddenly, magically too dumb to play, or unwilling to prepare, or unwilling to be coachable. The note Popps posted is interesting, but I just have a hard time squaring its conclusions with what's already been proven about Hillis in game action (and not just in one or two games, either).

You and Taco forget that Hillis was benched earlier in the year last year for a few games and If I recall correctly it was directly related to game-readiness or the lack thereof.

Popps
11-26-2009, 11:46 PM
Yes Moreno had a good game, but dont forget this is suppose to be a Peyton Hillis bashing thread.

Not at all. Quite the contrary.

This was a thread with a simple purpose... to throw out some information as to why one of our players might not be seeing playing time.

I'm a huge believer in the kid's physical talent. But, he's been repeatedly questioned as far as his mental ability, and again... can't even beat out Larsen for time at FB.

No one is bashing him. I think we're all just disappointed.

On the upside, Moreno will render him a moot topic of discussion, anyway.

Beantown Bronco
11-26-2009, 11:53 PM
All he's trying to do is keep the mother f***ing bench warm.

broncolife
11-27-2009, 12:13 AM
Not at all. Quite the contrary.

This was a thread with a simple purpose... to throw out some information as to why one of our players might not be seeing playing time.

I'm a huge believer in the kid's physical talent. But, he's been repeatedly questioned as far as his mental ability, and again... can't even beat out Larsen for time at FB.

No one is bashing him. I think we're all just disappointed.

On the upside, Moreno will render him a moot topic of discussion, anyway.
Im not sure Moreno play will render the topic moot. Because people in the chatroom were still hoping for Hillis to come in at the end of the game.Not because Moreno sucks.It was because both rbs were hurting and they wanted to see him get a chance.I wanted to see him fill in the Lamont Jordan role and punish the D at the end.But it seems hes really in the doghouse. I never wanted Moreno not to start, I just wanted to see Hillis/Moreno do a Alsott/Dunn type combo on teams. But with Buck and Moreno on the depth chart its hard to do that.

Popps
11-27-2009, 12:16 AM
Im not sure Moreno play will render the topic moot. Because people in the chatroom were still hoping for Hillis to come in at the end of the game.Not because Moreno sucks.It was because both rbs were hurting and they wanted to see him get a chance.I wanted to see him fill in the Lamont Jordan role and punish the D at the end.But it seems hes really in the doghouse. I never wanted Moreno not to start, I just wanted to see Hillis/Moreno do a Alsott/Dunn type combo on teams. But with Buck and Moreno on the depth chart its hard to do that.

Hillis contributing could do nothing but help this team. For whatever reason, he can't seem to.

Maybe he'll get it together. Let's hope for the best.

ant1999e
11-27-2009, 12:28 AM
Let's be honest. You want to see Hillis succeeed because he's white. All you Hillis supporters need to just come out of the closet. He hasn't done **** all season but every week we see a Hillis thread. Just be honest about your reasons. It's O.K. :afro:

Atwater His Ass
11-27-2009, 01:47 AM
People are still talking about Hillis?

I'll bet he's out of the league in the next 2-3 years.

ZONA
11-27-2009, 01:52 AM
Let's be honest. You want to see Hillis succeeed because he's white. All you Hillis supporters need to just come out of the closet. He hasn't done **** all season but every week we see a Hillis thread. Just be honest about your reasons. It's O.K. :afro:

I love him because he punishes defenders and catches passes like a WR. I don't care if he's white or black, asian or indian. He hasn't done **** all season because he hasn't played.........duh. It's not like the guy has been on the field all year and has layed an egg. McD just doesn't use him alot, for whatever reasons that's between those 2. If you don't think Hillis is a damn good player then you are wrong. Is he a smart guy and can learn this offense? I don't know. I know he's smart enough to plow over defenders for first downs, as we saw last year.

Gort
11-27-2009, 02:04 AM
Let's be honest. You want to see Hillis succeeed because he's white. All you Hillis supporters need to just come out of the closet. He hasn't done **** all season but every week we see a Hillis thread. Just be honest about your reasons. It's O.K. :afro:

are you the OM's resident angry black man? every board has one. just come out of the closet. be honest about it. it's OK. :afro:

Bronco Yoda
11-27-2009, 03:28 AM
Hillis has a place in this offense. He's just not being used. And it's a mystery to me why.

I'm not saying he should start over Moreno, but he should be getting some touches. Like those passes out in the flat... Like the one Moreno dropped last night... the kind of play Hillis has proven to be very effective in.

I'm seeing Leatherhead out there at FB while Hillis is on the bench. It's a wonder McD is letting Hillis dress now.

Not that I'm saying these two players are comparable obviously... but I remember years ago watching Marcus Allen sitting on the bench for what seemed like an eternity because he was in the dog house. And the reason why is still debated today. If that can happen to him then it can happen to anyone I guess ....for any reason.

colonelbeef
11-27-2009, 08:53 AM
Okay, sure you disagree with Popps' first point. His second (and mine), is that you're putting your football knowledge and what you've seen from his 300 career rushing yards above what McD's seen so far and every day in practice?

Hmm, no thanks. I'll take McD's opinion anyday.

McD also thought Matt Cassel was worth trading for. Nobody's opinion is without fault.

oubronco
11-27-2009, 09:09 AM
People are still talking about Hillis?

I'll bet he's out of the league in the next 2-3 years.

Get real maybe you should get Atwater out of your ass

errand
11-27-2009, 09:27 AM
Let's be honest. You want to see Hillis succeeed because he's white. All you Hillis supporters need to just come out of the closet. He hasn't done **** all season but every week we see a Hillis thread. Just be honest about your reasons. It's O.K. :afro:

I thought electing Obama was the cure all for this...silly me.:giggle:

baja
11-27-2009, 09:47 AM
Someone posted this earlier this year. It's interesting stuff, but none of it changes that the guy has shown to be an absolute beast with the ball in his hands. The guy flat punishes the other team.

So whatever that SIGMA profile says, tell me we couldn't use this in our offense right now:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/48HAiaY3vps&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/48HAiaY3vps&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I think he is saving him for the playoffs. ;D

TonyR
11-27-2009, 10:25 AM
McD also thought Matt Cassel was worth trading for. Nobody's opinion is without fault.

Do we know for sure that Cassel wouldn't succeed under better circumstances?

barryr
11-27-2009, 11:07 AM
Explains why Hillis lasted until the 7th round and wasn't much of the focus while in college either. I think he can be a useful player if given limited things to worry about because he's as dumb as a post.

ShutDownPoster
11-27-2009, 11:14 AM
Sorry guys couldn't resist:

What ya talkin' about HILLIS?


http://www.shoxty.com/archives/gary-coleman.jpg

oubronco
11-27-2009, 11:17 AM
I thought electing Obama was the cure all for this...silly me.:giggle:

**** Obama

Popps
11-27-2009, 11:19 AM
Do we know for sure that Cassel wouldn't succeed under better circumstances?

We absolutely know that Cassel WOULD succeed under better circumstances. We saw it first-hand, and the fact that McD has gotten this much out of Orton tells you that he would have more than likely had the same success with Cassel, here.

I have no problem with him wanting to make that move.

rastaman
11-27-2009, 01:29 PM
I thought electing Obama was the cure all for this...silly me.:giggle:

And here you foolishily thought 20 years of the trillion dollar spending Reaga-Bushistas was such a grand idea!!!! You poor miserable soul.:wiggle:

rastaman
11-27-2009, 01:32 PM
Explains why Hillis lasted until the 7th round and wasn't much of the focus while in college either. I think he can be a useful player if given limited things to worry about because he's as dumb as a post.

Explain why Terrell Davis lasted until the 6th round and wasn't much of the focus while in college either???

Hell TD was on his way to getting cut had it not been for his spectacular tackle on special teams during the Broncos playing over in Tokyo back in 1995!!

Oh well the rest is history.:thumbsup:

Popps
11-27-2009, 02:02 PM
Explain why Terrell Davis lasted until the 6th round and wasn't much of the focus while in college either???

Hell TD was on his way to getting cut had it not been for his spectacular tackle on special teams during the Broncos playing over in Tokyo back in 1995!!

Oh well the rest is history.:thumbsup:

Yea, only Terrell Davis was a starter by opening day. Hilis has been placed deep in a reserve role by two great offensive evaluators. This along with carrying a reputation if having problems with his assignments.

Hillis' situation is nothing remotely like TD's.

Gort
11-27-2009, 02:05 PM
And here you foolishily thought 20 years of the trillion dollar spending Reaga-Bushistas was such a grand idea!!!! You poor miserable soul.:wiggle:

you're an idiot. can't you take a joke without going off into some nonsensical political rant?

rastaman
11-27-2009, 02:08 PM
Oh well nothing is etched in stone. Its startng to look like Peyton Hillis and McD just werent ment to have a working relationship. It happens across the NFL.

McD believes he can win w/o using Hillis (although a recent 4 game losing streak will beg to differ), Hillis needs to adopt the reality that you stay where you are needed or go to a team that can use your talents.

rastaman
11-27-2009, 02:11 PM
you're an idiot. can't you take a joke without going off into some nonsensical political rant?

Was I talking to YOU!....Dumb Azz? A joke was made about Obama and made a counter saracastic comment about Reagan and the Bushes saving American Capitalism. Why don't you chill out----Dude!8')

Rock Chalk
11-27-2009, 03:35 PM
I hope Hillis gets cut so you people will shut up about his ass.

If he was the best option he would be out there or haven't you idiots figured this out yet?

watermock
11-27-2009, 03:48 PM
Was I talking to YOU!....Dumb Azz? A joke was made about Obama and made a counter saracastic comment about Reagan and the Bushes saving American Capitalism. Why don't you chill out----Dude!8')


Welcome to the laughter curve.

Bronx33
11-27-2009, 03:53 PM
you're an idiot. can't you take a joke without going off into some nonsensical political rant?

No he can't it fills all his spare time.

Pony Boy
11-27-2009, 04:21 PM
I'm a Hillis fan and don't understand why he's not seeing any game time but I have come to the conclusion that he has about as much chance of being the starting tailback for Denver as we have of drafting a white cornerback.....

Atwater His Ass
11-27-2009, 05:56 PM
Explain why Terrell Davis lasted until the 6th round and wasn't much of the focus while in college either???

Hell TD was on his way to getting cut had it not been for his spectacular tackle on special teams during the Broncos playing over in Tokyo back in 1995!!

Oh well the rest is history.:thumbsup:

all true, accept once TD got the opportunity, he made the most of it. hillis has hardly done that.

it would be great if hillis could turn into the next howard griffith, but the fact is, wether it's physical or mental, hillis cannot get onto the field. i would be surprised if he makes the team next year.

Borks147
11-27-2009, 06:15 PM
not sure if has been mentioned - b/c I'm not going to read 8 pages of flaming - but if Hillis doesn't injure his hammy last season, he is probably the starting rb right now, cutler is the qb and shanny is the coach.

cabronco
11-27-2009, 06:33 PM
Well he is getting field time on special teams. On one kick off return that I saw him, he flattened his guy to the ground, then looked for another block. I think at some point & time we'll see him run the ball.

ZONA
11-27-2009, 06:45 PM
I hope Hillis gets cut so you people will shut up about his ass.

If he was the best option he would be out there or haven't you idiots figured this out yet?

Yo, dude, go choke on a big one. If you don't want to hear about Hillis, then don't keep opening this frickin thread. It's very simple.

rastaman
11-27-2009, 07:59 PM
Many fans know Hillis has a huge upside and he proved what he could do last year. Hillis just didn't know....McD would give him more snaps on special teams than he was given with the 1st team in training camp and preseason games.

Kinda makes you wonder how Moreno would perform next season if McD gave him more snaps on special teams vs with the first team. How much ya wanna bet.....Moreno would not adjust very well to that scenario.

Simply put.....Hillis IS NOT a special teams player no more than Moreno or TD would have been. What we are witnessing is McD trying to enforce his will as HC. If McD is using the NE blue print of not having very many superstars...he has obviously used Hillis as his test tube example.

Peyton just needs to stay healthy and play special teams until McD cuts him in a year or two, and Peyton will just get another opportunity to play for a team that values his ability as power rushing FB and a tailback that has great hands out of the backfied.

rastaman
11-27-2009, 08:08 PM
all true, accept once TD got the opportunity, he made the most of it. hillis has hardly done that.

it would be great if hillis could turn into the next howard griffith, but the fact is, wether it's physical or mental, hillis cannot get onto the field. i would be surprised if he makes the team next year.

Meh! The Hillis vs McD drama is just another example in the grand scheme of destiny. Its beginning to look an awful like Peyton and McD just weren't meant to exist on the same team. No big deal...it happens.

I'm sure McD has figured out he can win w/o Hillis; even if McD stubbornly went thru a 4 game losing streak where you had the Offense stuggling while Moreno and Buckhalter proved they weren't the answer for converting 3rd and short.

Hillis dosen't need to get out of McDaniels dog house as much as Hillis just might need to get out of Denver.

UberBroncoMan
11-27-2009, 08:26 PM
Meh! The Hillis vs McD drama is just another example in the grand scheme of destiny. Its beginning to look an awful like Peyton and McD just weren't meant to exist on the same team. No big deal...it happens.

I'm sure McD has figured out he can win w/o Hillis; even if McD stubbornly went thru a 4 game losing streak where you had the Offense stuggling while Moreno and Buckhalter proved they weren't the answer for converting 3rd and short.

Hillis dosen't need to get out of McDaniels dog house as much as Hillis just might need to get out of Denver.

If Hillis was smarter (ie. able to do his job 100% without mistakes) he'd be among the stars of this team because he has all the physical talent.

rastaman
11-27-2009, 08:33 PM
If Hillis was smarter (ie. able to do his job 100% without mistakes) he'd be among the stars of this team because he has all the physical talent.

Every player makes mistakes......there is no such animal as 100% perfect w/o mistakes! Hillis wasn't given ample opportunity to contribute with the first team offense from the beginning of training camp and preseason games thru 11 games thus far this season.

watermock
11-27-2009, 08:43 PM
McD just hates him 'cause he's catholic....oh wait...

rastaman
11-27-2009, 08:50 PM
McD just hates him 'cause he's catholic....oh wait...

McD can't have too many Shanny drafted players hogging the lime light!;D

houghtam
11-27-2009, 08:53 PM
McD can't have too many Shanny drafted players hogging the lime light!;D

Yeah because Dumervil, Marshall, Bailey, the offensive line...nevermind. You're dense.

rastaman
11-27-2009, 08:55 PM
Yeah because Dumervil, Marshall, Bailey, the offensive line...nevermind. You're dense.

Oh never mind you just started walking upright! So why bother. Take care of those "Swollen Knuckles"----Why Don'tcha!

Bronco Yoda
11-27-2009, 10:27 PM
PUT HIM IN COACH!

You stubborn squeeky yelling F-bomb laying coach. I support you... but not on this oversight.

Get Hillis in the game!

Kaylore
11-27-2009, 11:06 PM
Hillis isn't playing for a reason and it's probably a pretty good one. I have a feeling that this is going to go the same way as all the Simms humpers. Actually it already has. Every time Hillis was in the game this year he was having a bad news bears moment, and even then he was only there because Larsen was hurt. The last time I saw this much hype over a guy who's done barely anything at all was when Wesley Duke was our Antonio Gates.

errand
11-28-2009, 12:13 AM
Explain why Terrell Davis lasted until the 6th round and wasn't much of the focus while in college either???

Hell TD was on his way to getting cut had it not been for his spectacular tackle on special teams during the Broncos playing over in Tokyo back in 1995!!

Oh well the rest is history.:thumbsup:

TD was injured most of college career

Vince Dooley had little patience with injured players...in fact he wouldn't even let most of them on the sidelines during games...they had to sit in the stands. He also rarely gave them glowing reviews when scouts would ask about them.


That's why Davis lasted until the 6th round...his injury history and lack of top notch production that resulted from it...and a coach that questioned his toughness.

GeniusatWork
11-28-2009, 09:35 AM
I hope Hillis has his head on straight, he has some talent. Maybe as we see the scheme change up to keep defenses guessing we'll see Hillis get a few chances.

strafen
11-28-2009, 10:23 AM
I hope Hillis gets cut so you people will shut up about his ass.

If he was the best option he would be out there or haven't you idiots figured this out yet?

Let's stop and think a little bit here...

No, he was not the best option nor was he was given the chance to become the best option...

Way before the preseason started, and WAY before McD could've have real proof Hillis was or was not his best option McD already went in with his plan to find guys that would be closer to what he had in New England and as soon as McD got the chance to assemble his guys, he did.
He brought in Cbuck, Lamont Jordan and drafted Moreno.

So that you coud understand, I'm going to dumb it down for you...

What that means is C-Buck, Moreno and Jordan were going to be the main components of his running game plan.
Not hillis.
Independently from any thing Hillis would have done, McD was going to stick with his 3 RB's shine, rain, or eathquake.

You know that, I know that, everybody knows that.

There's absolutely ZERO proof that Hillis absence on the field is due to his lack of skills (physical) or mental capacity to learn the system. That's preposterous!

Hillis didn't resemble anything McD had in New England, therefore he didn't know what to do with him...

If anybody here is going to challenge the intelligence of Hillis, they should start by doing so with McD, who BTW, I admire, but it frustrates me that he hasn't found a way to plug Hillis into the offense, but insist on using Lamont Jordan, and give Moreno plenty of chances despite his fumblelitis.

It sounds to me like McD has double standards. He knew he should've gone defense in the 1st round, he ****ed up, so Moreno is going to play no matter how many times he ****s up himself.
Eventually he's going to pull thru, we all hope, but...

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2009, 10:28 AM
Independently from any thing Hillis would have done, McD was going to stick with his 3 RB's shine, rain, or eathquake.

You know that, I know that, everybody knows that.

There's absolutely ZERO proof that Hillis absence on the field is due to his lack of skills (physical) or mental capacity to learn the system. That's preposterous!

Hillis didn't resemble anything McD had in New England, therefore he didn't know what to do with him...

If anybody here is going to challenge the intelligence of Hillis, they should start by doing so with McD, who BTW, I admire, but it frustrates me that he hasn't found a way to plug Hillis into the offense, but insist on using Lamont Jordan, and give Moreno plenty of chances despite his fumblelitis.

It sounds to me like McD has double standards. He knew he should've gone defense in the 1st round, he ****ed up, so Moreno is going to play no matter how many times he ****s up himself.
Eventually he's going to pull thru, we all hope, but...

So it's your take that McDaniels, a guy whose job and livelihood depends on success and winning, is going to NOT play a guy who can help him do that more than the other guys in his position? And it's because he "doesn't know what to do with him"? That's just insane. Seriously. He watched EVERY SINGLE SNAP from the 2008 season and knows EXACTLY what Hillis does well and doesn't do well. And, on top of that, he has Bobby Turner to help him in any further way needed.

You desperately need a new theory.

strafen
11-28-2009, 10:43 AM
Hillis isn't playing for a reason and it's probably a pretty good one. I have a feeling that this is going to go the same way as all the Simms humpers. Actually it already has. Every time Hillis was in the game this year he was having a bad news bears moment, and even then he was only there because Larsen was hurt. The last time I saw this much hype over a guy who's done barely anything at all was when Wesley Duke was our Antonio Gates.

You too are drinking the McD kool-aid?
WTF?!!!
Have you looked at what the guy did last season?
Did you see the way Hillis plays football?
How can you make such a stupid ignorant comment, dude?
Really, think before you type. Hype about Hillis?
What hype?
It's not like we're basing our expectation on wishful thinking here, we're basing our expectations about Hillis abilities to play football, and actually help us out this season by the way he played last year, what he demonstrated to YOU and everybody else here that he can play football, and that he can be a huge impact in a game in a way Moreno, C-Buck and Jordan are yet to be...

Some numbers here to support what I'm saying...

Hillis last year. Started 6 games. 522 total yards (rushing/catching) and 6 touchdowns total. ZERO fumbles

Oh, and he has 1td in 4 carries this year, btw...

Moreno this year. Started 10 games, 784 total yards, 4 touchdowns 4 fumbles

strafen
11-28-2009, 10:46 AM
So it's your take that McDaniels, a guy whose job and livelihood depends on success and winning, is going to NOT play a guy who can help him do that more than the other guys in his position? And it's because he "doesn't know what to do with him"? That's just insane. Seriously. He watched EVERY SINGLE SNAP from the 2008 season and knows EXACTLY what Hillis does well and doesn't do well. And, on top of that, he has Bobby Turner to help him in any further way needed.

You desperately need a new theory.What I'm basically saying is that Hillis was not his guy type.
There have been the same conclusions drawn that Cutler was not his guy type either.
Would you agree with that?
If so, then I need no further comments...

Flex Gunmetal
11-28-2009, 11:04 AM
I like Hillis, but he's too stupid to play here.

Popps
11-28-2009, 11:38 AM
What I'm basically saying is that Hillis was not his guy type..

Absolutely incorrect.

McDaniels' "type of guy" is a productive back.

In fact, Hillis much resembles Kevin Faulk in that he appears to have a range of skills. (Receiving, etc.) He absolutely fits what the offense does.

There's nothing physically about Hillis that doesn't fit.

So, you're left with two options of what to believe...

1. McDaniels and Shanahan both purposely chose to harm their own teams by not making Hillis a starting RB.

2. McDaniels and Shanahan saw what scouts saw in Hillis, in that he has problems with his assignments and receiving coaching properly.

Take your pick.



There have been the same conclusions drawn that Cutler was not his guy type either.

Correct. An inaccurate, turnover-prone QB with questionable leadership and big salary demands wasn't McDaniels type of guy. Hence, he traded him.

strafen
11-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Absolutely incorrect.

McDaniels' "type of guy" is a productive back.

In fact, Hillis much resembles Kevin Faulk in that he appears to have a range of skills. (Receiving, etc.) He absolutely fits what the offense does.

There's nothing physically about Hillis that doesn't fit.

So, you're left with two options of what to believe...

1. McDaniels and Shanahan both purposely chose to harm their own teams by not making Hillis a starting RB.

2. McDaniels and Shanahan saw what scouts saw in Hillis, in that he has problems with his assignments and receiving coaching properly.

Take your pick.




Correct. An inaccurate, turnover-prone QB with questionable leadership and big salary demands wasn't McDaniels type of guy. Hence, he traded him.I want to see concrete proof, concrete fundamental proof that what you're saying about Hillis inability to learn a system is true.
He was a FB, NOT a RB, not that he couldn't have excelled as RB, I'm just saying he was our FB and was also a ST player. Still he started 6 games for us right after the injuries started to pile up, and the guy delivered. He did delivered
He wasn't drafted to be our #1 RB, Shanahan drafted his RB's last year, that's why we had 6 RB's in front of him that Shanahan viewed as his fleet of runners, and not necessarily a reason to think Hillis wasn't capable of handling the duties.

You can say all you want, and conjecture every theory you want, you still can't dispute Hillis numbers from last year making a case to totally disapprove what you and others are saying.
Can't argue with the numbers he put up in 6 games he started last year.
How can you ignore those numbers coming into this season and NOT think he could have the same impact in our offense as he did last year?

Moreno on the otherhand 4 TD and 4 fumbles in 10 games he's started this year. It took a good spat with Marshall a week ago to wake his ass up and start producing, as it was evident in the game against the Giants.

His production has been anemic at best. You can make a case Moreno leads all rookies in yards, in the same way I can make a case Cutler was a Pro-Bowl QB.
The bottom line is, what have you done for me lately...

You're left with two options here...
Believe what you want to believe by ignoring statistics that total proves what you're saying worng?

Or consider the stats and come up with substantial evidence to prove your point to me and all others.
We will wait...

go_broncos
11-28-2009, 12:09 PM
Mcd has a taken a bold and wise decision in trading cutler.
I applaud him for that.

But, i still don't understand why he didn't start Hillis in short yardage situations.
Hillis is a beast..He is much better than Moreno in Short yardage situations.

Also, Moreno runs better outside.if you play good defensive teams like PIT and BAL, it doesnt work as they close the gaps fast. We can use Hillis in those games as he runs hard.

Thats my opinion. I hope our coach realizes this and plays him(at least in short yardage situations).

Cito Pelon
11-28-2009, 12:25 PM
Let's stop and think a little bit here...

No, he was not the best option nor was he was given the chance to become the best option...

Way before the preseason started, and WAY before McD could've have real proof Hillis was or was not his best option McD already went in with his plan to find guys that would be closer to what he had in New England and as soon as McD got the chance to assemble his guys, he did.
He brought in Cbuck, Lamont Jordan and drafted Moreno.

So that you coud understand, I'm going to dumb it down for you...

What that means is C-Buck, Moreno and Jordan were going to be the main components of his running game plan.
Not hillis.
Independently from any thing Hillis would have done, McD was going to stick with his 3 RB's shine, rain, or eathquake.

You know that, I know that, everybody knows that.

There's absolutely ZERO proof that Hillis absence on the field is due to his lack of skills (physical) or mental capacity to learn the system. That's preposterous!

Hillis didn't resemble anything McD had in New England, therefore he didn't know what to do with him...

If anybody here is going to challenge the intelligence of Hillis, they should start by doing so with McD, who BTW, I admire, but it frustrates me that he hasn't found a way to plug Hillis into the offense, but insist on using Lamont Jordan, and give Moreno plenty of chances despite his fumblelitis.

It sounds to me like McD has double standards. He knew he should've gone defense in the 1st round, he ****ed up, so Moreno is going to play no matter how many times he ****s up himself.
Eventually he's going to pull thru, we all hope, but...

That was just dumb.

Archer81
11-28-2009, 12:31 PM
Like OH mai gawd...like...McDaniels is like a reverse racist and junk...cuz like he starts black players over like some white players? Like totally...


:Broncos:

rastaman
11-28-2009, 02:34 PM
Like OH mai gawd...like...McDaniels is like a reverse racist and junk...cuz like he starts black players over like some white players? Like totally...


:Broncos:

Lay of the Bong Pipe Surfer Dude!ROFL!

tnedator
11-28-2009, 07:11 PM
you're an idiot. can't you take a joke without going off into some nonsensical political rant?

No, Rastaman isn't capable of that. He can't quite grasp the concept that politics is supposed to stay in WPR. Based on is posting track record, it isn't too surprising that he can't grasp simple concepts like that.

Popps
11-28-2009, 07:38 PM
I want to see concrete proof, concrete fundamental proof that what you're saying about Hillis inability to learn a system is true.

Hey, I didn't come up with it. It's a rep that's followed him since college. Did you even read the OP? The info is from a scouting report. Don't shoot the messenger.

Again, I've been a fan of Hillis. But, I'm also on board with reality when two great offensive coaches choose to make a 7th rounder a back-up instead of a starter.


You can say all you want, and conjecture every theory you want, you still can't dispute Hillis numbers from last year making a case to totally disapprove what you and others are saying.

Hillis had a couple of great games. You won't find one poster here who thinks he isn't physically talented.

However, we've inserted two very productive RBs in front of him.

Again, unless you have "concrete proof" that there is a conspiracy at hand... then the next most logical explanation for two great offensive coaches burying him in the depth chart is that he's got problems outside of his physical ability. (An assessment the enclosed scouting report proffers before he even left college.)

It took a good spat with Marshall .

Of course it didn't.

Moreno averaged 8 yards a game against San Diego and had a TD ruled a fumble.

Marshall was the one who had the bad game against San Diego.

Perhaps the spat helped Marshall?


You're left with two options here...
Believe what you want to believe by ignoring statistics that total proves what you're saying worng?

Again, Shanahan used ALL options instead of making Hillis a starter.

McDaniels has buried him in the depth chart.

The only one that seems to be ignoring reality is you.

Hillis had a couple of nice games in a zone blocking scheme last season. He's failed to impress a second coaching staff, and he remains a back-up.

So, unless you believe that Shanahan and McDaniels purposely choose to hurt their own team, your next option is to actually consider the vast speculation that Hillis has problems with coaching.

Again, you're not talking to a Hillis-basher, here. Last season, I would have pegged him as a sure starter this year. But, often times.. things aren't as they meet the fans' eyes.

strafen
11-28-2009, 10:32 PM
That was just dumb.Ironically, that's the most intelligent thing I've ever read from you in this forum.
That said, care to elaborate a little bit to enhance us with your brilliance?

Hulamau
11-29-2009, 12:46 AM
not sure if has been mentioned - b/c I'm not going to read 8 pages of flaming - but if Hillis doesn't injure his hammy last season, he is probably the starting rb right now, cutler is the qb and shanny is the coach.

And we would then still have the same defense, Slowik and the Club Med persona and wind up 5 -11, maybe 7-9 if we were lucky

strafen
11-29-2009, 09:26 AM
And we would then still have the same defense, Slowik and the Club Med persona and wind up 5 -11, maybe 7-9 if we were lucky

I think we would've made the play-offs for sure, had Hillis not gotten injured.
At the same time we would've gotten annihilated in the play-offs which Bowlen could still had made the decision to fire Shanny.
I think nothing short of a AFC Conference game or a SB appearance could have saved Shanny's ass...

Ray Finkle
11-29-2009, 09:41 AM
I want to see concrete proof, concrete fundamental proof that what you're saying about Hillis inability to learn a system is true.
He was a FB, NOT a RB, not that he couldn't have excelled as RB, I'm just saying he was our FB and was also a ST player. Still he started 6 games for us right after the injuries started to pile up, and the guy delivered. He did delivered
He wasn't drafted to be our #1 RB, Shanahan drafted his RB's last year, that's why we had 6 RB's in front of him that Shanahan viewed as his fleet of runners, and not necessarily a reason to think Hillis wasn't capable of handling the duties.

You can say all you want, and conjecture every theory you want, you still can't dispute Hillis numbers from last year making a case to totally disapprove what you and others are saying.
Can't argue with the numbers he put up in 6 games he started last year.
How can you ignore those numbers coming into this season and NOT think he could have the same impact in our offense as he did last year?

Moreno on the otherhand 4 TD and 4 fumbles in 10 games he's started this year. It took a good spat with Marshall a week ago to wake his ass up and start producing, as it was evident in the game against the Giants.

His production has been anemic at best. You can make a case Moreno leads all rookies in yards, in the same way I can make a case Cutler was a Pro-Bowl QB.
The bottom line is, what have you done for me lately...

You're left with two options here...
Believe what you want to believe by ignoring statistics that total proves what you're saying worng?

Or consider the stats and come up with substantial evidence to prove your point to me and all others.
We will wait...

I trust what a certain insider here once told me....it echos what Pops wrote...Hillis does not practice hard and is a little....well, clueless.

rastaman
11-29-2009, 09:54 AM
No, Rastaman isn't capable of that. He can't quite grasp the concept that politics is supposed to stay in WPR. Based on is posting track record, it isn't too surprising that he can't grasp simple concepts like that.

Dude! you're entitled your narrow minded conservative challenged opinions, can't fault for that. But believe me thats all you have are your opinions and of course your opinions leave a lot to be desired. Have a nice day.:wiggle:

strafen
11-29-2009, 10:35 AM
I trust what a certain insider here once told me....it echos what Pops wrote...Hillis does not practice hard and is a little....well, clueless.

I still haven't heard any concrete evidence on what you guys claim about Hillis other than a friend of a friend heard this about Hillis. A cousin of Popps who is a friend of an insider here told me...

Ok. Enough of that.
Now, if I had to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that what they're talking about Hillis is true, then, how in the hell has that affected his performance, IF EVER?

Point out to me a bad game Hillis has had dating back to last year that reflects his poor practice habits?
And don't count this year, he's had like 4 lame carries for 1 TD.
Are you sure is not Moreno they/you're talking about?

What I want to know is how you guys, yes YOU who were wowed by Hillis performance last year, have been brainwashed by some to all of the sudden say crap about the guy who has not played any significant time since his injury last year that would prove what you're saying. Unbelievable!!!
Show me what you've seen this year so I can see with my own eyes.

To totally ignore the impact and what Hillis did for us last year and to now regard him as a stupid player bordering retardation, is just as retarded as what you're all saying. Unbelievable how people can have their judgment changed by somebody who has more posts than them.

All I have is what the guy did last year, and so far, I haven't found any proof that indicates he's a different player than he was last year. None!
You guys are a freaking joke. Seriously.
You can call me anything you want, apologist, Hillis defenders, whatever, that's fine, but prove what you're saying.
I will do the same thing (defend) for anybody in the same position not able to speak for themselves. If you're going to slander somebody, I want proof. I want to see the truth.

I just got the feeling that you guys are trying to justify McDaniels decision not to play Hillis. Hey, I'm a McDaniel 100% supporter, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make an ass out of myself to justify, and defend bad decisions made by him. No.

rastaman
11-29-2009, 10:45 AM
I trust what a certain insider here once told me....it echos what Pops wrote...Hillis does not practice hard and is a little....well, clueless.

Just more gossip and allegations. There's no video evidence or players coming forward publicly to prove or say Hillis is lazy and doesn't practice hard.

Point is, Hillis got caught up in all the upheaval of the firing of Shanny and the hiring of McDaniel's, and was ambushed both mentally and physically of getting regulated to Special Teams and totally snubbed from practicing with the first team offense to learn McD's new Offense and getting his timing down.

In Hillis's mind he proved thru his brief opportunity/injury shortened 2008 season what his capabilities and contributions he could have provided in 2009 with the first team offense if given a chance.

Unless Moreno or Buckhalter suffer season ending injuries like what occurred to the Broncos running corp last season......Hillis knows he will never get ample opportunities to start for several games to show case his talent.

Hillis may have decided he no longer wants to be a role player and sacrifice his talents as a glorified utility player; whereas like in college he played second fiddle to Jones and McFadden while at Arkansas.

Hillis knows getting regulated to special teams is not the best road to take when you're trying to land a financial secure contract in the NFL to ensure yourself and love ones are taken care of at the end of your brief NFL career.

Hillis may go to McDaniel's at the end of the season and ask for his outright release in the hopes of another team will pick him up and give him a chance to fight for a starting job as the FB or TB. I'm sure Hillis in a professional business manner can just say to McD that he understands the direction-choice-and decision with the RB's and just say its a scheme that doesn't best play to his talent and move on. No big deal b/c McD only wants players that buy into his system playing for him anyway.

After all Hillis is only a 7th round draft pick which the last time I checked 7th rnd picks cost very little money to sign and rarely make the team anyway.

rastaman
11-29-2009, 10:51 AM
I still haven't heard any concrete evidence on what you guys claim about Hillis other than a friend of a friend heard this about Hillis. A cousin of Popps who is a friend of an insider here told me...

Ok. Enough of that.
Now, if I had to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that what they're talking about Hillis is true, then, how in the hell has that affected his performance, IF EVER?

Point out to me a bad game Hillis has had dating back to last year that reflects his poor practice habits?
And don't count this year, he's had like 4 lame carries for 1 TD.
Are you sure is not Moreno they/you're talking about?

What I want to know is how you guys, yes YOU who were wowed by Hillis performance last year, have been brainwashed by some to all of the sudden say crap about the guy who has not played any significant time since his injury last year that would prove what you're saying. Unbelievable!!!
Show me what you've seen this year so I can see with my own eyes.

To totally ignore the impact and what Hillis did for us last year and to now regard him as a stupid player bordering retardation, is just as retarded as what you're all saying. Unbelievable how people can have their judgment changed by somebody who has more posts than them.

All I have is what the guy did last year, and so far, I haven't found any proof that indicates he's a different player than he was last year. None!
You guys are a freaking joke. Seriously.
You can call me anything you want, apologist, Hillis defenders, whatever, that's fine, but prove what you're saying.
I will do the same thing (defend) for anybody in the same position not able to speak for themselves. If you're going to slander somebody, I want proof. I want to see the truth.

I just got the feeling that you guys are trying to justify McDaniels decision not to play Hillis. Hey, I'm a McDaniel 100% supporter, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make an ass out of myself to justify, and defend bad decisions made by him. No.

Rep!.....Well stated. You spoke the Truth and hopefully the Hillis slanderist have learned something.

Popps
11-29-2009, 11:09 AM
I still haven't heard any concrete evidence on what you guys claim about Hillis .

Fist off, yes you have. You've read an unbiased scouting report from BEFORE HE WAS DRAFTED.

Secondly, the burden of proof isn't on us, it's on you.

YOU need to prove to the rest of the logical world why there's a conspiracy. The only people I've see on this board that buy into any of this conspiracy talk are haters of the current administration, or people who simply need something to complain about.

Two great offensive coaches have chosen to bury Hillis on the depth chart when they have enough healthy players to do so.

Again, YOU need to provide the proof that Shanahan and McDaniels intentionally chose to harm their own teams. Until then, the rest of the thinking universe will use simple, obvious deductive reasoning in that Hillis' inability to even beat out Larsen for time at FB is a clear indicator that he has problems doing his job.

So, quit calling for the rest of the planet to prove your conspiracy theory INCORRECT. YOU need to show that this conspiracy involving Shanahan and McDaniels exists.

Otherwise, we'll all go with the very logical and evidence-supported explanation.

rastaman
11-29-2009, 11:17 AM
Fist off, yes you have. You've read an unbiased scouting report from BEFORE HE WAS DRAFTED.

Secondly, the burden of proof isn't on us, it's on you.

YOU need to prove to the rest of the logical world why there's a conspiracy. The only people I've see on this board that buy into any of this conspiracy talk are haters of the current administration, or people who simply need something to complain about.

Two great offensive coaches have chosen to bury Hillis on the depth chart when they have enough healthy players to do so.

Again, YOU need to provide the proof that Shanahan and McDaniels intentionally chose to harm their own teams. Until then, the rest of the thinking universe will use simple, obvious deductive reasoning in that Hillis' inability to even beat out Larsen for time at FB is a clear indicator that he has problems doing his job.

So, quit calling for the rest of the planet to prove your conspiracy theory INCORRECT. YOU need to show that this conspiracy involving Shanahan and McDaniels exists.

Otherwise, we'll all go with the very logical and evidence-supported explanation.

Meh! Hillis just needs to get another opportunity with another team and coach that will appreciate and best utlize his power running and pass catching ability out of the back field. Hopefully that team will be the Texans.

Remember, Hillis doesn't believe he's a Special teams player and McDanie's believes he is. So it looks like you have two individuals that have a differing of opinions.

strafen
11-29-2009, 11:59 AM
Fist off, yes you have. You've read an unbiased scouting report from BEFORE HE WAS DRAFTED.

Secondly, the burden of proof isn't on us, it's on you.

YOU need to prove to the rest of the logical world why there's a conspiracy. The only people I've see on this board that buy into any of this conspiracy talk are haters of the current administration, or people who simply need something to complain about.

Two great offensive coaches have chosen to bury Hillis on the depth chart when they have enough healthy players to do so.

Again, YOU need to provide the proof that Shanahan and McDaniels intentionally chose to harm their own teams. Until then, the rest of the thinking universe will use simple, obvious deductive reasoning in that Hillis' inability to even beat out Larsen for time at FB is a clear indicator that he has problems doing his job.

So, quit calling for the rest of the planet to prove your conspiracy theory INCORRECT. YOU need to show that this conspiracy involving Shanahan and McDaniels exists.

Otherwise, we'll all go with the very logical and evidence-supported explanation.

Wait!
Don't turn the tables on me now, bud!
I'm the one asking for proof. The burden of proof is on you guys talking about something that has not been made clear by anybody...

Do you think if Shanahan was still our headcoach that Hillis would still be at this point more than half-way thru the season with only 4-5 carries?
Come on, now! Tell me if you really think that that would be the case.
Just asking you...

Second, Hillis has a lot of talents. He can catch the ball, he can run the ball and he can power run the ball.
Why not put the shadow of the doubt on McDaniels' inability to find a spot in his offense for a guy like that?
Why has he not cut Hillis in a heartbeat like he did with Jack Williams and Brett Kern?

If he can't beat Larsen out for FB playing time, then cut the guy. That simple.

Again I ask the question...
Why is Hillis not playing?
The excuses given so far are excuses that for what I hear, the guy shouldn't be occupying a roster spot, don't you think?
Why is he still on the team?

Cito Pelon
11-29-2009, 12:02 PM
I still haven't heard any concrete evidence on what you guys claim about Hillis other than a friend of a friend heard this about Hillis. A cousin of Popps who is a friend of an insider here told me...

Ok. Enough of that.
Now, if I had to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that what they're talking about Hillis is true, then, how in the hell has that affected his performance, IF EVER?

Point out to me a bad game Hillis has had dating back to last year that reflects his poor practice habits?
And don't count this year, he's had like 4 lame carries for 1 TD.
Are you sure is not Moreno they/you're talking about?

What I want to know is how you guys, yes YOU who were wowed by Hillis performance last year, have been brainwashed by some to all of the sudden say crap about the guy who has not played any significant time since his injury last year that would prove what you're saying. Unbelievable!!!
Show me what you've seen this year so I can see with my own eyes.

To totally ignore the impact and what Hillis did for us last year and to now regard him as a stupid player bordering retardation, is just as retarded as what you're all saying. Unbelievable how people can have their judgment changed by somebody who has more posts than them.

All I have is what the guy did last year, and so far, I haven't found any proof that indicates he's a different player than he was last year. None!
You guys are a freaking joke. Seriously.
You can call me anything you want, apologist, Hillis defenders, whatever, that's fine, but prove what you're saying.
I will do the same thing (defend) for anybody in the same position not able to speak for themselves. If you're going to slander somebody, I want proof. I want to see the truth.

I just got the feeling that you guys are trying to justify McDaniels decision not to play Hillis. Hey, I'm a McDaniel 100% supporter, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make an ass out of myself to justify, and defend bad decisions made by him. No.

Bob Turner pretty much decides who will be running the ball.

Cito Pelon
11-29-2009, 12:09 PM
Wait!
Don't turn the tables on me now, bud!
I'm the one asking for proof. The burden of proof is on you guys talking about something that has not been made clear by anybody...

Do you think if Shanahan was still our headcoach that Hillis would still be at this point more than half-way thru the season with only 4-5 carries?
Come on, now! Tell me if you really think that that would be the case.
Just asking you...

Second, Hillis has a lot of talents. He can catch the ball, he can run the ball and he can power run the ball.
Why not put the shadow of the doubt on McDaniels' inability to find a spot in his offense for a guy like that?
Why has he not cut Hillis in a heartbeat like he did with Jack Williams and Brett Kern?

If he can't beat Larsen out for FB playing time, then cut the guy. That simple.

Again I ask the question...
Why is Hillis not playing?
The excuses given so far are excuses that for what I hear, the guy shouldn't be occupying a roster spot, don't you think?
Why is he still on the team?

Maybe because he and Turner still think Hillis has possibilities. Duh. Keep making a fool of yourself, it's entertaining.

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2009, 12:10 PM
Wait!
Don't turn the tables on me now, bud!
I'm the one asking for proof. The burden of proof is on you guys talking about something that has not been made clear by anybody...

You're asking people to prove a negative and you don't even realize it.

You ask for stats. What stats on the field could prove that someone is a slow learner? What you are asking for is BS.

Do you think if Shanahan was still our headcoach that Hillis would still be at this point more than half-way thru the season with only 4-5 carries?
Come on, now! Tell me if you really think that that would be the case.
Just asking you...

If he chose to draft Moreno or some other RB, then yes.

Second, Hillis has a lot of talents. He can catch the ball, he can run the ball and he can power run the ball.
Why not put the shadow of the doubt on McDaniels' inability to find a spot in his offense for a guy like that?

Not when he has other guys that can also do the very same things, only better.

Why has he not cut Hillis in a heartbeat like he did with Jack Williams and Brett Kern?

He is well aware of both what happened here last year and what happened to him last year in NE. Both teams were DECIMATED with injuries at the RB position and you can never have too many guys at that position.

If he can't beat Larsen out for FB playing time, then cut the guy. That simple.

Nope. See above. It's NOT that simple.

Again I ask the question...
Why is Hillis not playing?
The excuses given so far are excuses that for what I hear, the guy shouldn't be occupying a roster spot, don't you think?
Why is he still on the team?

So guys should either be playing all the time or they should not be on the roster at all in your world? Sorry, but EVERY team has 5-10 guys who don't see the field at all or only see the field for special teams. Hence the reason why teams ARE REQUIRED to declare inactives every week.

GreatBronco16
11-29-2009, 12:17 PM
So what is next guys, Hillis is a franchise RB and McD is just clueless?

Popps
11-29-2009, 02:11 PM
So what is next guys, Hillis is a franchise RB and McD is just clueless?

Yea, our RBs are at like 5.0 and 4.4 a carry, but McDaniels is purposely benching a player he knows would help him win because he's not "his type of guy." (Whatever the **** that is.)

Popps
11-29-2009, 02:14 PM
Wait!
Don't turn the tables on me now, bud!
I'm the one asking for proof. The burden of proof is on you guys talking about something that has not been made clear by anybody...


But, how much more clear does it need to be made for you?

Two great offensive-minded coaches see Hillis as a back-up, despite him having (seemingly) apparent physical skills.

So, here's the math...

7 round draft pick
+
Shanahan putting him on the bench
+McDaniels putting him on the bench
+reputation for having problems with playbook and coaching
___________________

= There is a problem outside of his physical ability.


So, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove that McDaniels and Shanahan are purposely choosing to hurt their own teams.

Otherwise, it's a simple case of a player being outplayed by other players on the roster... as happens every single day in the NFL.

errand
11-29-2009, 02:26 PM
I still haven't heard any concrete evidence on what you guys claim about Hillis other than a friend of a friend heard this about Hillis. A cousin of Popps who is a friend of an insider here told me...

Ok. Enough of that.
Now, if I had to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that what they're talking about Hillis is true, then, how in the hell has that affected his performance, IF EVER?

Point out to me a bad game Hillis has had dating back to last year that reflects his poor practice habits?
And don't count this year, he's had like 4 lame carries for 1 TD.
Are you sure is not Moreno they/you're talking about?

What I want to know is how you guys, yes YOU who were wowed by Hillis performance last year, have been brainwashed by some to all of the sudden say crap about the guy who has not played any significant time since his injury last year that would prove what you're saying. Unbelievable!!!
Show me what you've seen this year so I can see with my own eyes.

To totally ignore the impact and what Hillis did for us last year and to now regard him as a stupid player bordering retardation, is just as retarded as what you're all saying. Unbelievable how people can have their judgment changed by somebody who has more posts than them.

All I have is what the guy did last year, and so far, I haven't found any proof that indicates he's a different player than he was last year. None!
You guys are a freaking joke. Seriously.
You can call me anything you want, apologist, Hillis defenders, whatever, that's fine, but prove what you're saying.
I will do the same thing (defend) for anybody in the same position not able to speak for themselves. If you're going to slander somebody, I want proof. I want to see the truth.

I just got the feeling that you guys are trying to justify McDaniels decision not to play Hillis. Hey, I'm a McDaniel 100% supporter, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make an ass out of myself to justify, and defend bad decisions made by him. No.

OK, first off you do realize that almost 63% of Hillis 2008 rushing yards were gained against the 25th (ATL), 28th (CLEV), 30th (KC), and 31st (OAK) ranked run defenses? In fairness to him he did have a monster game against the NFL's 7th best run defense (NYJ)...however the bottom line is he ran against arguably a buffet of pussies when it came to stopping the run.

And I find it odd that you want people in here to give proof positive about what they say about Hillis...and yet you're in here saying that this is a bad decision by McDaniels.

What proof do you have that this is indeed a bad decision by him other than the player you like isn't playing?

errand
11-29-2009, 02:29 PM
Also...Peyton Hillis' longest run last year...19 yards. Moreno's longest this year 36 yards.....chicks dig the long ball.

rastaman
11-29-2009, 03:29 PM
But, how much more clear does it need to be made for you?

Two great offensive-minded coaches see Hillis as a back-up, despite him having (seemingly) apparent physical skills.

So, here's the math...

7 round draft pick
+
Shanahan putting him on the bench
+McDaniels putting him on the bench
+reputation for having problems with playbook and coaching
___________________

= There is a problem outside of his physical ability.


So, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove that McDaniels and Shanahan are purposely choosing to hurt their own teams.

Otherwise, it's a simple case of a player being outplayed by other players on the roster... as happens every single day in the NFL.

Pops its obvious Peyton does not have an offensive future here in Denver so long as McD is the coach. According to McD........Peyton is an expendable
7th round Special Team player. Question is, does Petyon feel he is much more to offer as a Running Back in this league or has he believed in the BS McD is selling that he's only an expendable Special Teams player?????

rastaman
11-29-2009, 03:31 PM
Also...Peyton Hillis' longest run last year...19 yards. Moreno's longest this year 36 yards.....chicks dig the long ball.

Moreno has started since game 1 and has played 11 games and has had multitude of opportunies to run for long gains. Whereas Peyton has not had the same number of games to start during the 08 & 09 seasons. So a poor comparison IMHO.

rastaman
11-29-2009, 03:39 PM
OK, first off you do realize that almost 63% of Hillis 2008 rushing yards were gained against the 25th (ATL), 28th (CLEV), 30th (KC), and 31st (OAK) ranked run defenses? In fairness to him he did have a monster game against the NFL's 7th best run defense (NYJ)...however the bottom line is he ran against arguably a buffet of pussies when it came to stopping the run.

And I find it odd that you want people in here to give proof positive about what they say about Hillis...and yet you're in here saying that this is a bad decision by McDaniels.

What proof do you have that this is indeed a bad decision by him other than the player you like isn't playing?

You still haven't produced any evidence of who is the better runner btwn Moreno and Hillis. Moreneo is only starting over Hillis b/c he's the number 1 draft choice and got SB for 12mil bucks. Besides that, Moreno has shown he has the propensity to turn the ball over (4 fumbles thus far) and the mere fact that Moreno has shown he doesn't possess the leg strentgh to convert 3rd and short. Peyton on the other hand has shown with his power rushing he can pick up the tough short yardage. And in goal line situations in the red zone Hillis should be in there instead of Buck-halter or Moreno b/c he is a much more powerful runner.

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2009, 03:45 PM
Moreno has started since game 1

False.

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2009, 03:48 PM
Moreneo is only starting over Hillis b/c he's the number 1 draft choice and got SB for 12mil bucks.

False. You'd have an argument if and only if Moreno was the only guy ahead of Hillis on the depth chart. Sadly for you, there are at least three other RBs ahead of Hillis.

Moreno has shown he doesn't possess the leg strentgh to convert 3rd and short.

False.

And in goal line situations in the red zone Hillis should be in there instead of Buck-halter or Moreno b/c he is a much more powerful runner.

Proving you are clueless about what it takes to succeed in the NFL. You need a lot more than just a "powerful runner" to score in goal line situations.

INbronco
11-29-2009, 03:58 PM
Fist off, yes you have. You've read an unbiased scouting report from BEFORE HE WAS DRAFTED.

Secondly, the burden of proof isn't on us, it's on you.

YOU need to prove to the rest of the logical world why there's a conspiracy. The only people I've see on this board that buy into any of this conspiracy talk are haters of the current administration, or people who simply need something to complain about.

Two great offensive coaches have chosen to bury Hillis on the depth chart when they have enough healthy players to do so.

Again, YOU need to provide the proof that Shanahan and McDaniels intentionally chose to harm their own teams. Until then, the rest of the thinking universe will use simple, obvious deductive reasoning in that Hillis' inability to even beat out Larsen for time at FB is a clear indicator that he has problems doing his job.

So, quit calling for the rest of the planet to prove your conspiracy theory INCORRECT. YOU need to show that this conspiracy involving Shanahan and McDaniels exists.

Otherwise, we'll all go with the very logical and evidence-supported explanation.

What you guys who support the Shanny/MCD knows best about whether Hillis is worthy of big time RB duties don't acknowledge is the fact that he IS in fact a big time RB; he proved that in numerous games last year.

All you have proved is that MCD won't play him because he THINKS Hillis isn't worth the chance. Same thing happened to Shanny last year and wasn't till Hillis was literally shoved down his throat did it become evident that he was wrong in his assessment of said player. It doesn't really matter if Hillis is a poor practice player or doesn't show signs of smarts; His production on the field shows he's good. Are you saying that Shanny's system was simple to learn? Are you saying that Hillis did't produce when called into play?

It's too bad that Hillis hasn't been shoved down MCD's throat; then we could all either eat crow of bow to the boss.

Above all the tirade of Hillis whinny threads could come to an end.

rastaman
11-29-2009, 04:00 PM
False. You'd have an argument if and only if Moreno was the only guy ahead of Hillis on the depth chart. Sadly for you, there are at least three other RBs ahead of Hillis.



False.



Proving you are clueless about what it takes to succeed in the NFL. You need a lot more than just a "powerful runner" to score in goal line situations.

Nope not as clueless as you are bias. Point is, football is really simple if you're talented enough. You line up behind your QB take the hand off and follow your blockers. Now just b/c a HC plays favoritism and tries to over specialize the offense doesn't mean an NFL player can't play the game.

It all comes down to opportunity and playing time. You would see the same scenario happen to Moreno next season if he was regulated to special teams. Imagine in 2010 Moreno takes more snaps and plays on special teams vs with the first team offense. Can you imagine Moreno's attitude and the insult!!!

Its all good however, b/c Peyton should already realize he no longer has a future in Denver as contributing FB/TB in McD's Offense.....and its time to move on and go to a team that better utilize his power running talents and receiving skills coming out of the back field.

Popps
11-29-2009, 04:00 PM
Hillis couldn't beat out Mike Bell or Selvin Young, and he can't beat out Moreno or Bucklahter... or even Larsen.

End of story.

GreatBronco16
11-29-2009, 04:02 PM
Above all the tirade of Hillis whinny threads could come to an end.


I doubt it. We still have all the whinny Cutler threads, and he has more than sucked this year.

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2009, 04:03 PM
Nope not as clueless as you are bias.

What is my bias?

I was/am a HUGE fan of Hillis. I have been vocally critical of several McDaniels moves. I am literally your perfect target audience here. And your argument doesn't convince me. That should be telling.

GreatBronco16
11-29-2009, 04:03 PM
Point is, football is really simple if you're talented enough. You line up behind your QB take the hand off and follow your blockers.

Yeah, it's just that simple.:spit:

Blart
11-29-2009, 04:07 PM
http://img.amazon.ca/images/I/71KJ0A2D7ZL._SL500_AA280_.gif

houghtam
11-29-2009, 04:07 PM
Point is, football is really simple if you're talented enough.


Brain surgery is really simple if you're smart enough.

HAT
11-29-2009, 04:11 PM
Same thing happened to Shanny last year and wasn't till Hillis was literally shoved down his throat.........

.....It's too bad that Hillis hasn't been shoved down MCD's throat

Wow.....Openly rooting for RB's above Hillis on the depth chart (which is like all of them) to get injured?

Tool.

Dagmar
11-29-2009, 04:16 PM
rastaman is absolutely embarrassing himself in this thread.

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2009, 04:18 PM
rastaman is absolutely embarrassing himself in this thread.

Why should this thread be any different?

Kaylore
11-29-2009, 04:25 PM
You too are drinking the McD kool-aid?
WTF?!!!
Have you looked at what the guy did last season?
Did you see the way Hillis plays football?
How can you make such a stupid ignorant comment, dude?
Really, think before you type. Hype about Hillis?
What hype?
It's not like we're basing our expectation on wishful thinking here, we're basing our expectations about Hillis abilities to play football, and actually help us out this season by the way he played last year, what he demonstrated to YOU and everybody else here that he can play football, and that he can be a huge impact in a game in a way Moreno, C-Buck and Jordan are yet to be...

Some numbers here to support what I'm saying...

Hillis last year. Started 6 games. 522 total yards (rushing/catching) and 6 touchdowns total. ZERO fumbles

Oh, and he has 1td in 4 carries this year, btw...

Moreno this year. Started 10 games, 784 total yards, 4 touchdowns 4 fumbles

Last year? Who cares? What about this year? Hillis has lined up wrong several times, left his lane on special teams allowing big returns including a TD from sproles and has fumbled the ball. Where are you getting that he's awesome? The guy clearly has trouble with the playbook and with execution. And Larsen is a better blocker than Hillis.

And I say again, last year Hillis was benched by Shanahan earlier in the season for not knowing his playbook and practicing poorly. Why I keep reminding people of this and no one will acknowledge it is beyond me, but that shows that there is a theme from coach to coach with the guy.

Dagmar
11-29-2009, 04:28 PM
Last year? Who cares? What about this year? Hillis has lined up wrong several times, left his lane on special teams allowing big returns including a TD from sproles and has fumbled the ball. Where are you getting that he's awesome? The guy clearly has trouble with the playbook and with execution. And Larsen is a better blocker than Hillis.

And I say again, last year Hillis was benched by Shanahan earlier in the season for not knowing his playbook and practicing poorly. Why I keep reminding people of this and no one will acknowledge it is beyond me, but that shows that there is a theme from coach to coach with the guy.

Rastaman and dragster will never believe this, it doesn't fit with their anti-broncos stance.

rastaman
11-29-2009, 04:28 PM
Hillis couldn't beat out Mike Bell or Selvin Young, and he can't beat out Moreno or Bucklahter... or even Larsen.

End of story.

Yeah sure Pops......take your bia-ista medication and call it a day.:sunshine:

rastaman
11-29-2009, 04:32 PM
Last year? Who cares? What about this year? Hillis has lined up wrong several times, left his lane on special teams allowing big returns including a TD from sproles and has fumbled the ball. Where are you getting that he's awesome? The guy clearly has trouble with the playbook and with execution. And Larsen is a better blocker than Hillis.

And I say again, last year Hillis was benched by Shanahan earlier in the season for not knowing his playbook and practicing poorly. Why I keep reminding people of this and no one will acknowledge it is beyond me, but that shows that there is a theme from coach to coach with the guy.

And Moreno fumbles the ball and can't pickup the tough short yardage to convert 3rd downs. While you have Buckhalter running on gimpy knees and allows himself to be brought down with arm tackles.

Yet somehow according to your rationale Hillis is not worthy to get any playing time even during the 4 game losing streak when both Moreno and Buckhalter were not performing well either.

Yeah I hear you.

Beantown Bronco
11-29-2009, 04:34 PM
And Moreno can't pickup the tough short yardage to convert 3rd downs.

If you keep saying this enough, maybe even you will believe it.

rastaman
11-29-2009, 04:35 PM
Rastaman and dragster will never believe this, it doesn't fit with their anti-broncos stance.

Oooooh yeah Rusty---never under estimate the power of "Lemming Inspired Group Think"!

You either go with the questionable majority! or prepared to be attacked w/o let up.:~ohyah!:

rastaman
11-29-2009, 04:39 PM
If you keep saying this enough, maybe even you will believe it.

Come on Beany you know thus far of all the games Moreno has played thus far, running btwn the tackles to pick up crucial 3rd and shorts......Moreno has come up short. The question is could Peyton had picked up the tough yardage in the red zone to have made a difference? I guess we will never know. In fact Peyton may just need to go to another team to prove you and McDaneils wrong.:sunshine: