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broncosteven
11-07-2010, 09:04 PM
Actually, no he wouldn't but he has a track record and results to support him. McD was a great OC who looks to be a Head Coach who was promoted WAY too soon.

Experience was my concern from day 1.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-07-2010, 09:07 PM
It's tough watching a team play the kind of football you wish your team could play... showcasing the skills of a castoff player from your team that any layperson with two functioning eyes and a pulse could see... and knowing your coach is the kind of guy who couldn't envision a productive role for said player outside of a fraction of trade material for the most useless player in the league.

Taco John
11-07-2010, 09:10 PM
It's tough watching a team play the kind of football you wish your team could play... showcasing the skills of a castoff player from your team that any layperson with two functioning eyes and a pulse could see... and knowing your coach is the kind of guy who couldn't envision a productive role for said player outside of a fraction of trade material for the most useless player in the league.


Hillis is dumb. He can't pick up this sophisticated, sophisticated high-powered, tough and smart offense.

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 09:13 PM
Hillis is dumb.

Well many football players are dumb. But he wasn't dumb to be a player. Really Hillis might prove to be the defining mistake for McD.

Alfred Williams, whom I quote WAY too much, says it best when he says some of the dumbest players in practice just ball in games.

Hillis did make some bad mistakes in the game last year but maybe he should have been given more time.

Just a sad state of affairs right now.

Taco John
11-07-2010, 09:15 PM
Well many football players are dumb. But he wasn't dumb to be a player. Really Hillis might prove to be the defining mistake for McD.

Alfred Williams, whom I quote WAY too much, says it best when he says some of the dumbest players in practice just ball in games.

Hillis did make some bad mistakes in the game last year but maybe he should have been given more time.

Just a sad state of affairs right now.


I'm as big a Hillis fan as can be. I don't really believe that Hillis is dumb. I think people who parrot this line are dumb.

Also, I think McDaniels is dumb for not being able to see what all the rest of us dummys could clearly see without too much strain. Only a moron trades away the likes of Hillis. A moron.

go_broncos
11-07-2010, 09:16 PM
This is the biggest blunder committed by Mcd..
On top of that, you have Mcd supporters saying that Hillis is dumb.
We could have used him this year..He is exciting to watch unlike Moreno.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-07-2010, 09:19 PM
I'm as big a Hillis fan as can be. I don't really believe that Hillis is dumb. I think people who parrot this line are dumb.

Also, I think McDaniels is dumb for not being able to see what all the rest of us dummys could clearly see without too much strain. Only a moron trades away the likes of Hillis. A moron.

Yeah dude, but he didn't maintain his lane on punt coverage allowing Sproles to score. That's why we have Maroney. So, it's all toughersmarter now.

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 09:19 PM
I'm as big a Hillis fan as can be. I don't really believe that Hillis is dumb. I think people who parrot this line are dumb.

Well you can tend to be hard headed so this response isn't surprising.

Its not parroting, and many believe it. Including some well respected posters here. He made some DUMB mistakes last year. Doesn't mean he can't play football but he bungled some things.

McD should have probably stuck with him, that much has been proven. But I think he was really dumb last year. Guess in your eyes that makes me dumb.

I'll just laugh it off though.... As you have proven yourself to be just as dumb as me in the past. :twokisses;D

Gutless Drunk
11-07-2010, 09:20 PM
Well many football players are dumb. But he wasn't dumb to be a player. Really Hillis might prove to be the defining mistake for McD.

Alfred Williams, whom I quote WAY too much, says it best when he says some of the dumbest players in practice just ball in games.

Hillis did make some bad mistakes in the game last year but maybe he should have been given more time.

Just a sad state of affairs right now.

Maybe? Oh... you mean 13 carries isn't enough to judge someone...especially when Lamont freaking Jordan was getting more.

Mcdaniels is clueless when it comes to running backs

baja
11-07-2010, 09:22 PM
Stupid is as stupid does - Forest Gump's mom

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 09:22 PM
Maybe? Oh... you mean 13 carries isn't enough to judge someone...especially when Lamont freaking Jordan was getting more.

Mcdaniels is clueless when it comes to running backs

Can't argue against this point!

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-07-2010, 09:24 PM
Come join if you like!

http://www.facebook.com/?sk=ru&ap=1#!/home.php?sk=group_118313944897120&ap=1

lostknight
11-07-2010, 09:24 PM
Its not parroting, and many believe it.

I'm sorry. This front office has a history of demonizing players when they leave. Cutler was a drunk, Marshall a cancer, Hillis too dumb, Sheffler a rabble rouser. Smith is lazy.

At some point, you have to wonder if they believe their own spin.

broncogary
11-07-2010, 09:24 PM
I'm sorry. This front office has a history of demonizing players when they leave. Cutler was a drunk, Marshall a cancer, Hillis too dumb, Sheffler a rabble rouser. Smith is lazy.

At some point, you have to wonder if they believe their own spin.

I think that was the Mane that did that.

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 09:26 PM
I'm sorry. This front office has a history of demonizing players when they leave. Cutler was a drunk, Marshall a cancer, Hillis too dumb, Sheffler a rabble rouser. Smith is lazy.

At some point, you have to wonder if they believe their own spin.

Um Cutler was a drunk and hasn't done ANYTHING since leaving so that is a lame argument.

Marshall wanted out as much as the team wanted to part ways. Another lame argument.

The rest I agree but you kind of kill your argument especially when you use Cutler. Thanks for the laugh though! :spit:

lostknight
11-07-2010, 09:26 PM
I think that was the Mane that did that.

The Sheffler and Cutler quotes came directly front the front office, under the auspices of "team sources say", using using Josina, Paige or some other wannabe reporter.

The idiots on the mane adopt it and run with it.

lostknight
11-07-2010, 09:28 PM
Um Cutler was a drunk and hasn't done ANYTHING since leaving so that is a lame argument.


Thanks for proving my point. Small people, small minds.

I would trade Chicago's record for ours right now.

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 09:28 PM
Yeah because Cutler has carried his team. Keep making a joke of your argument. Its humorous!

bowtown
11-07-2010, 09:28 PM
I think that was the Mane that did that.

Yeah, I think lostknight might actually be under the mistaken impression that the Mane is the Bronco's FO.

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 09:29 PM
Thanks for proving my point. Small people, small minds.

I would trade Chicago's record for ours right now.
Man my mind is clearly way above yours. Way to go keyboard warrior. :spit:

Cutler proving the team wrong, man thats too much. I enjoyed the humor there buddy!

I shall now refer to you as Beaver. As you are cute little guy!

lostknight
11-07-2010, 09:30 PM
Yeah, I think lostknight might actually be under the mistaken impression that the Mane is the Bronco's FO.

Actually, the original report was from Josina, which clearly quoted a source with the teams front office.

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 09:31 PM
Actually, the original report was from Josina, which clearly quoted a source with the teams front office.

Thanks for the clarification Beaver Cleaver.

bowtown
11-07-2010, 09:32 PM
Actually, the original report was from Josina, which clearly quoted a source with the teams front office.

Great, so then it should be easy for you to find. Jst chk ur twtter accnt.

lostknight
11-07-2010, 09:35 PM
Great, so then it should be easy for you to find. Jst chk ur twtter accnt.

http://sportsbybrooks.com/station-changes-cutler-dumb-drunk-comment-23041

1 second by Google. According to Josina's initial report, it was someone "with primary knowledge of the trade situation."

But hey, go back to thinking that you are not a mindless little sheepple that the front office tells what to believe and who to demonize.

lostknight
11-07-2010, 09:36 PM
Thanks for the clarification Beaver Cleaver.

baaaaaa-aaaaaaaa

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 09:36 PM
http://sportsbybrooks.com/station-changes-cutler-dumb-drunk-comment-23041

1 second by Google. According to Josina's initial report, it was someone "with primary knowledge of the trade situation."

But hey, go back to thinking that you are not a mindless little shepple that the front office tells what to believe.

Golly Gee Beaver you shouldn't be so angry.

bowtown
11-07-2010, 09:39 PM
http://sportsbybrooks.com/station-changes-cutler-dumb-drunk-comment-23041

1 second by Google. According to Josina's initial report, it was someone "with primary knowledge of the trade situation."

But hey, go back to thinking that you are not a mindless little sheepple that the front office tells what to believe and who to demonize.

Awesome, you quote an article that not only has an annonomous source, but has also already been revised to lessen its impact. Got any more stuff, maybe copy of a Wikipedia article from a couple years ago before it was edited?

bowtown
11-07-2010, 09:42 PM
PRO FOOTBALL TALK shares the story that back on Tuesday, an NFL source told Anderson that potential teams had worries about Jay joining their rosters. And she mentioned such worries in her FOX 31 blog:

“The source said there are concerns about Cutler’s consumption of alcohol, and ‘that he’s not that sharp.’

“‘That scared the crap out of [coach Josh] McDaniels,’ the source said.”

So Jay’s a drunk & a dimwit? Wow, that’s some powerful stuff. So powerful that it was removed from Josina’s article.

Anderson did explain beforehand, “The following is what was heard by my source in these trade whispers, not what FOX31 cites as definite facts about Cutler.” Still, the station must have had their own concerns about potential libel lawsuits, so the sentences were snipped.

However, just a few days later, the drunk & dumb comments were added back into Anderson’s article - with a little extra clarification.

The re-added blurbs now read like this:

Two things that kept coming up were concerns about Cutler’s alcohol consumption (given his diabetes) and “that’s he not that (football) sharp.”
“That scared the crap out of McDaniels,” the source told me.


This might as well have been written in the light rail.

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 09:44 PM
lostknight is a joke bowtown. Don't waste your time on a simpleton. Just think of the little guy like a joke and its more fun!

The Joker
11-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Looking like a monumental **** up by McDaniels to trade him away, the guy is an absolute stud to be honest.

lostknight
11-07-2010, 09:47 PM
lostknight is a joke bowtown. Don't waste your time on a simpleton. Just think of the little guy like a joke and its more fun!

Little guy that just pwn'd you. You asked for a source, and I gave you one. One that is in-line with this team demonizing anyone they choose to terminate. Anywhere else, they would get sued into oblivion due to labor laws. In this case, Fox pre-emptivly took it down to protect themselves from a lawsuit.

Hmm. Let's see. Personal attacks when the facts run against you? You clearly learned from the best.

Taco John
11-07-2010, 09:50 PM
Well you can tend to be hard headed so this response isn't surprising.

Its not parroting, and many believe it. Including some well respected posters here. He made some DUMB mistakes last year. Doesn't mean he can't play football but he bungled some things.

McD should have probably stuck with him, that much has been proven. But I think he was really dumb last year. Guess in your eyes that makes me dumb.

I'll just laugh it off though.... As you have proven yourself to be just as dumb as me in the past. :twokisses;D



Sorry. Nothing personal. But yes. Yes. Yes, I think anybody who thought it would be a good idea to get rid of Hillis is dumb. ;)

Popps
11-07-2010, 09:53 PM
McD should have probably stuck with him, that much has been proven. But I think he was really dumb last year.

You know, both of those things may be true. In fact, they probably are.

strafen
11-07-2010, 10:01 PM
You know, both of those things may be true. In fact, they probably are.

Which when Hillis is on the field it has been a diametric opposite of what you're saying, ain't it?
Keep defending that 2-6 record...

theAPAOps5
11-07-2010, 10:47 PM
Little guy that just pwn'd you. You asked for a source, and I gave you one. One that is in-line with this team demonizing anyone they choose to terminate. Anywhere else, they would get sued into oblivion due to labor laws. In this case, Fox pre-emptivly took it down to protect themselves from a lawsuit.

Hmm. Let's see. Personal attacks when the facts run against you? You clearly learned from the best.

When you have to resort to lame pwn'd you comments it tells me all I need to know. You are a joke. Little guy you will never be able to match up with me. Thats why you are now referred to as the Beaver. Take notes you might learn something.

And get your facts straight you were the one calling people names when they disagreed.

Lets quote you and disgrace you little boy:

Thanks for proving my point. Small people, small minds.


Simpleton, you should know never to go full retard. It hurts your argument. Got it little guy?

Maybe you should practice what you preach and not resort to personal attacks when you clearly can't take people returning them. Golly Gee Beaver!

cutthemdown
11-07-2010, 10:53 PM
I never thought Hillis would play this good so I can't jump on the mcdaniels hate on this one. He's playing really well this yr and even making big plays.

snowspot66
11-07-2010, 11:04 PM
I never thought Hillis would play this good so I can't jump on the mcdaniels hate on this one. He's playing really well this yr and even making big plays.

Not like he would be playing this well for us anyway. Need some actual run blocking first.

broncolife
11-07-2010, 11:15 PM
lol I was just on the a live adult camera site and one of the girls was wearing a browns jersey. All the pervs on there were talking about how much of a monster Hillis was. I would have too but I am a cheap perv so I wasnt allowed to chat. :)

Zoobie
11-07-2010, 11:18 PM
So who was the last Caucasian running back to rush for 1,000 yards? Craigs James of the 85' Patriots. Peyton is on pace to be the first to do it in 25 years, holy moses. Which got me thinking back to this article: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-gerhartstereotype042010

I do not get this, honestly. Every white RB, from Hillis, Jacob Hester, Brian Leonard, Gerhart etc are all compared to Mike Alstott. Why do they have to be compared to another white guy, I don't understand. It's the same thing with white recievers, they are compared to Stokley, McCafferey, or Welker.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-07-2010, 11:19 PM
Stupid is as stupid does - Forest Gump's mom

http://item.slide.com/r/1/29/i/ALt4udHvzj8XXyHOOO2v91SKzf_pVmzk/

Cito Pelon
11-07-2010, 11:37 PM
Sorry. Nothing personal. But yes. Yes. Yes, I think anybody who thought it would be a good idea to get rid of Hillis is dumb. ;)

I wouldn't mind having Hillis on the team, but thinking he'd be putting up the numbers here like he is there would not be happening. I don't care who the RB is, he has to have holes.

strafen
11-07-2010, 11:42 PM
Not like he would be playing this well for us anyway. Need some actual run blocking first.

Denial, denial, denial...
Did you even see the game of Hillis today?

wandlc
11-07-2010, 11:43 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD

Is this a run that Moreno makes?

cutthemdown
11-07-2010, 11:48 PM
Not like he would be playing this well for us anyway. Need some actual run blocking first.

well he runs people over, run around them, breaks tackles. Broncos have nothing even close to his size speed combo. Hes prob as fast as Moreno.

Don Flamenco
11-07-2010, 11:48 PM
McDip**** used ****ing Lamont Jordan before he ran Hillis. That right there should get that mother****er fired. Lamont ****ing Jordan?

bpc
11-08-2010, 12:00 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD

Is this a run that Moreno makes?

That dudes a fuggin beast. Can't believe we had a stud like that and dropped him for next to nothing.

bpc
11-08-2010, 12:02 AM
McDip**** used ****ing Lamont Jordan before he ran Hillis. That right there should get that mother****er fired. Lamont ****ing Jordan?

It's very painful that you remind me of this. As the short yardage got worse, McD's went out of his way to piss off the fans who were calling for Hillis. Starting Jordan over him was the cherry on top.

bpc
11-08-2010, 12:03 AM
well he runs people over, run around them, breaks tackles. Broncos have nothing even close to his size speed combo. Hes prob as fast as Moreno.

faster, stronger, better hands. We ditched this guy so we can take a fragile, weak, slower version of him 12th overall.

wandlc
11-08-2010, 12:03 AM
The funny part of the video is the look on the Pats defender's face(#55), one of the 3 that hit him in the hole, after Hillis scores.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-08-2010, 12:07 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81bed740/QB-McCoy-to-RB-Hillis-29-yd-pass

cutthemdown
11-08-2010, 12:11 AM
faster, stronger, better hands. We ditched this guy so we can take a fragile, weak, slower version of him 12th overall.

The thing is he wasnt starter in clev until a bunch of guys went down. In denver it wasnt until shanny had no one else he started. Then Mcd cuts him he goes to clevend etc etc.

Be interesting to see how browns approach hillis. As the everydown starter, pay him like say a micheal turner? Or a lowball you are just another brandon jacobs, we start you sometimes?

bpc
11-08-2010, 12:22 AM
The thing is he wasnt starter in clev until a bunch of guys went down. In denver it wasnt until shanny had no one else he started. Then Mcd cuts him he goes to clevend etc etc.

Be interesting to see how browns approach hillis. As the everydown starter, pay him like say a micheal turner? Or a lowball you are just another brandon jacobs, we start you sometimes?

This guy has Mike Alstott written all over him. Great hands, effective speed for the game, power that is going to make some teams buckle in the 2nd half.

We blew it with this guy. Par for the course with McD's though. I wonder when Hillis was hitting Patriots yesterday if he saw McDaniels stupid little face.

Almost 200 yds and 2 TD's. Damn, when we was the last time we had a game like that in our backfield?

Taco John
11-08-2010, 12:23 AM
I have to feel a little sorry for McDaniels. First we get blown out by the Tom Cable Raiders to a record score at home. Then he flies across the ocean to lose to the 1-6 Singletary 49ers. Then he flies back over the ocean for the respite of a bye week only to watch Peyton Hillis explode on his television and on the mouths of every media member in the Denver market.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/421/perfectstorm1.jpg


I have a feeling this team is going to come out very pissed off this week against KC.

snowspot66
11-08-2010, 12:28 AM
Denial, denial, denial...
Did you even see the game of Hillis today?

Whine, whine, whine...

We're last in rushing for a reason and it isn't just the guys running the ball.

Taco John
11-08-2010, 12:33 AM
Whine, whine, whine...

We're last in rushing for a reason and it isn't just the guys running the ball.


Did you see this video:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD


Dude, Hillis runs into THREE defenders, STANDS THEM UP, drops two of them on the ground, and dives by the third for a touchdown.

That's some Casey Jones bullsh*t right there...

Cito Pelon
11-08-2010, 12:45 AM
McDip**** used ****ing Lamont Jordan before he ran Hillis. That right there should get that mother****er fired. Lamont ****ing Jordan?

There is no telling what evil lurks in his mind.

Cito Pelon
11-08-2010, 01:02 AM
Did you see this video:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD


Dude, Hillis runs into THREE defenders, STANDS THEM UP, drops two of them on the ground, and dives by the third for a touchdown.

That's some Casey Jones bullsh*t right there...

He's a good back, I wish he was still on the team. I can see why some people want to kick Josh in the nuts for trading him.

ZONA
11-08-2010, 02:54 AM
Did you see this video:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD


Dude, Hillis runs into THREE defenders, STANDS THEM UP, drops two of them on the ground, and dives by the third for a touchdown.

That's some Casey Jones bullsh*t right there...

A stud play no doubt about it. Not many backs can slam into 3 guys like that and still get into the endzone.

Blart
11-08-2010, 02:56 AM
I admit to being wrong about Hillis! I thought all you Hillis supporters were just closet racists. He's actually really good.

fontaine
11-08-2010, 03:33 AM
Did you really think Mike Bell was as good as Hillis?
I told you back in 07 that wasn't the case.

Selvin Young wasn't as good as him, either.

Well . . . .


Bell has 2700 yards, 16 TDs and a 4.9 YPC average as a Bronco.

Hillis isn't even in his league.


Again, just illuminating how utterly silly this whole Hillis fetish really is.


LOL

go_broncos
11-08-2010, 06:01 AM
Not surprised that Mcd supporters saying that he can't run behind our line...
Hillis is a beast.
I said during that time...Mcd and broncos will regret this trade.
We have trouble getting good player's.on top of that, you trade a good RB..
**** YOU MCD..I HATE YOU.

jhat01
11-08-2010, 06:06 AM
I've always thought "pfffft!" about everyone talking this dude up. The guy certainly seems to be on a mission though, and he always ran hard while he was on this team. He's turning into a nice story for the browns, and another tick in the fail column for our coach.

lostknight
11-08-2010, 06:35 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD

Is this a run that Moreno makes?

If it's more then three yards, no.

Pony Boy
11-08-2010, 07:48 AM
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Gutless Drunk
11-08-2010, 07:55 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-winnersandlosers110710


"Maybe the hooded sweatshirt was hanging over Josh McDaniels’ eyes the entire 2009 season. Or maybe he never took the time to watch all of the Denver Broncos’ game film from 2008. Or maybe Mike Holmgen and the Cleveland Browns’ new front office is a whole lot smarter than we realized.

Or maybe there’s no reasonable explanation for how Peyton Hillis(notes) ended up where he is – sparking the suddenly feisty Browns, and leaving Broncos fans writhing in agony over the worst trade of last offseason.

Where is Brady Quinn(notes) these days? You’ll find him scraping barnacles off the bottom of the depth chart, languishing behind Tim Tebow(notes). Yes, that’s the guy whom McDaniels traded Hillis for – he of the career 66.8 quarterback rating and 52 percent completion rate. And it wasn’t even a straight up player-for-player deal. Denver kicked in a sixth-round pick in 2011 and a conditional pick in 2012 to sweeten the pot. Nothing like a couple of bamboo shoots under the fingernails on draft day to remind fans of a team’s brain-searing roster machinations.

Of course, you could give Hoodie Jr. a pass and say that there was no way McDaniels could have known Hillis would be a player who almost singlehandedly destroyed Hoodie Sr. (Bill Belichick) and the Patriots, en route to 220 yards from scrimmage (including 184 yards rushing) and two touchdowns – a guy who through eight games is on pace to rush for 1,288 yards and score 16 total touchdowns.

You could say McDaniels couldn’t have known, and you’d be right. He couldn’t, because McDaniels never took the time to try and know what Hillis was capable of accomplishing. Despite Hillis’ five yards per carry average and five TDs in a meager 68 rushing attempts in 2008, he didn’t get a sniff when McDaniels took over. Instead, the new regime, in its infinite wisdom, went out of its way to try almost anyone at running back other than Hillis. They drafted Knowshon Moreno(notes), signed J.J. Arrington(notes) (then cut him and signed him again), and scooped up injury-addled veterans Correll Buckhalter(notes) and LaMont Jordan(notes). And into the abyss Hillis went, never to be heard from again in 2009, save for 13 meaningless carries in 14 games.

The truth is, McDaniels never believed in Hillis, and the running back said as much when he joined Cleveland this offseason. Maybe only Hillis believed in himself, since nobody in the media (including me) was shooting a thumbs-up in Cleveland’s direction at the time of the deal. Just like nobody talked about Hillis when they lauded the sick talent in the University of Arkansas’ backfield in 2007, yammering non-stop about Darren McFadden(notes) and Felix Jones(notes), and almost never saying a word about Hillis.

Hindsight is cruel in the NFL, and Hillis’ success is downright merciless for a Broncos team that can’t run the football (last in the NFL heading into this weekend) and has watched Moreno struggle to stay on the field.

So Hillis delivers the two-pronged entry this week, making Denver’s shortsightedness a loser, and Cleveland’s sheer luck a winner. I have a feeling both cities will be talking about this trade for years to come."

"Loved: Peyton Hillis’ insane hurdle of a Patriot on Cleveland’s first offensive series Sunday. It looked like one of the eye-popping plays you’d see from Minnesota’s Adrian Peterson. Denver’s running game sure could use Hillis right now. Whoops."

colonelbeef
11-08-2010, 08:41 AM
I have to feel a little sorry for McDaniels. First we get blown out by the Tom Cable Raiders to a record score at home. Then he flies across the ocean to lose to the 1-6 Singletary 49ers. Then he flies back over the ocean for the respite of a bye week only to watch Peyton Hillis explode on his television and on the mouths of every media member in the Denver market.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/421/perfectstorm1.jpg


I have a feeling this team is going to come out very pissed off this week against KC.

McDaniels did this to himself with his hubris run amok.

He is a millionaire now, don't feel bad for him.

go_broncos
11-08-2010, 08:47 AM
I have to feel a little sorry for McDaniels. First we get blown out by the Tom Cable Raiders to a record score at home. Then he flies across the ocean to lose to the 1-6 Singletary 49ers. Then he flies back over the ocean for the respite of a bye week only to watch Peyton Hillis explode on his television and on the mouths of every media member in the Denver market.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/421/perfectstorm1.jpg


I have a feeling this team is going to come out very pissed off this week against KC.

you should feel bad for the fans..They don't deserve this.
Bowlen went cheap and drafted a ****ty coach.
Even if Bowlen fires Mcd..he will get his money.
I don't think Mcd even cares about this team and the city.
He himself should be blamed for the mess he created.
We need to just hope that he gets fired before he starts shipping good players that we have.

Shanny..what a player you have found in Hillis..It's sad that our new coach couldn't recognize his skills.

Archer81
11-08-2010, 09:07 AM
you should feel bad for the fans..They don't deserve this.
Bowlen went cheap and drafted a ****ty coach.
Even if Bowlen fires Mcd..he will get his money.
I don't think Mcd even cares about this team and the city.
He himself should be blamed for the mess he created.
We need to just hope that he gets fired before he starts shipping good players that we have.

Shanny..what a player you have found in Hillis..It's sad that our new coach couldn't recognize his skills.


You are beyond pathetic. You don't draft coaches. Hillis did not fit here. You can paint any reason you like to explain why, but the kid is gone. Let it go, you sack of whale semen.

:Broncos:

bendog
11-08-2010, 09:26 AM
Hillis did not fit here.

-\
And you call someone pathetic. And you're rude.

go_broncos
11-08-2010, 09:30 AM
You are beyond pathetic. You don't draft coaches. Hillis did not fit here. You can paint any reason you like to explain why, but the kid is gone. Let it go, you sack of whale semen.

:Broncos:

Who is fit here..Maroney,Moreno, R.quinn,Brady Quinn,Moss???..
Glad that Mcd is our coach..I am so excited...

bendog
11-08-2010, 09:32 AM
Who is fit here..Maroney,Moreno, R.quinn,Brady Quinn,Moss???..
Glad that Mcd is our coach..I am so excited...

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Bronco Yoda
11-08-2010, 09:32 AM
So where's the list of Hillis haters again? Anyone got that list?

Post it up. I know someone here has it stashed away.

Let's see all the peeps that gave some of us so much **** over simply defending Hillis from the start.

Archer81
11-08-2010, 09:44 AM
Who is fit here..Maroney,Moreno, R.quinn,Brady Quinn,Moss???..
Glad that Mcd is our coach..I am so excited...


And how can you honestly use Moss to berate McDaniels when Moss is a Shanny draft pick? Do you honestly think that with how young and banged up our offensive line is that any back would be running for 183 yards in a single game? Or any back getting 29 carries in a game? Even if everything was working the way it is supposed to we dont run a single back 29 times. It is easy to hate the new HC and then wait for events to occur to justify your dislike. Of course that would mean you liked the team in the first place.

You and reality need to ****ing meet for a change.


:Broncos:

Bronco Yoda
11-08-2010, 10:01 AM
I have to feel a little sorry for McDaniels. First we get blown out by the Tom Cable Raiders to a record score at home. Then he flies across the ocean to lose to the 1-6 Singletary 49ers. Then he flies back over the ocean for the respite of a bye week only to watch Peyton Hillis explode on his television and on the mouths of every media member in the Denver market.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/421/perfectstorm1.jpg


I have a feeling this team is going to come out very pissed off this week against KC.

I sure hope so.

Taco John
11-08-2010, 10:16 AM
I admit to being wrong about Hillis! I thought all you Hillis supporters were just closet racists. He's actually really good.


Yeah. I have a mental record of the people who were so bigotted themselves that they believed this trash when there was product on the field they could see with their own eyes.

bendog
11-08-2010, 10:23 AM
Imagine, a white running back with social adjustment issues and a born again quarterback..... It could be a book.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2010, 10:31 AM
Yeah. I have a mental record of the people who were so bigotted themselves that they believed this trash when there was product on the field they could see with their own eyes.

Did that really happen? :rofl:

Beware the Galloping Ghost!

footstepsfrom#27
11-08-2010, 10:42 AM
This guy has Mike Alstott written all over him. Great hands, effective speed for the game, power that is going to make some teams buckle in the 2nd half.

We blew it with this guy. Par for the course with McD's though. I wonder when Hillis was hitting Patriots yesterday if he saw McDaniels stupid little face.

Almost 200 yds and 2 TD's. Damn, when we was the last time we had a game like that in our backfield?
Portis? Hillis himself? Damn right we blew it...BIG time. The thing that irks me is that unlike what Popps and a few others try to propogate, this guy wasn't an unknown buried on the bench who up and surprised people. We SAW his talent with our own eyes when he was here. What I fail to understand is how professional coaches can look at this guy and think he doesn't fit in their system so you cut him. Huh? If he doesn't fit...maybe there's something wrong with your system. Maybe he needs some actual coaching? Maybe a guy who can run, block and catch and has the versitility to play 3 positions MUST have a place found for him?

Moreno may yet surprise me buy getting and remaining healthy and instantly turning into the player they thought he'd be but right now all I can see is that we had a stud runner on the bench whose on track for 1700 yards and McDaniels figured he wasn't good enough to play here. I bet he tears us apart next time we play the Browns. What a shame he's not doing this here. I think Orton would appreciate that kind of help in the backfield instead of what he's got now.

bendog
11-08-2010, 10:43 AM
Pale Rider? (-:

SleepingTiger
11-08-2010, 10:50 AM
You are beyond pathetic. You don't draft coaches. Hillis did not fit here. You can paint any reason you like to explain why, but the kid is gone. Let it go, you sack of whale semen.

:Broncos:

Wow, Hillis did not fit here? Our ranking in rushing yards tells me that Hillis fits here. Our record tells me he fits here. Our beloved Broncos rushing total for the season is 538, while the guy we traded away that rushed for 644. Not only that, he didn't win the starting position until week 3 and he has been hurt for the past 3 games. It is you who needs to meet reality. The reality that McDaniels screwed up when he traded Hillis. The reality that Hillis is a better RB than all our RB combined.

Yes, Hillis is gone and we know that. Still, we are here to discuss football. If you don't like it, create your own thread about how Hillis sucks and how he does not fit in the Broncos system.

Pick Six
11-08-2010, 10:54 AM
This is Cleveland FINALLY getting us back for the Elway curse...:moody:

I agree that we need to open the holes, but we need to have runners who are willing to actually go THROUGH the holes created. I've seen guys like Buckhalter have open lanes, and STILL try to go side-to-side...:thumbsdow

Popps
11-08-2010, 10:55 AM
Portis? Hillis himself? Damn right we blew it...BIG time. The thing that irks me is that unlike what Popps and a few others try to propogate, this guy wasn't an unknown


You'd better check your time-line.

I was probably the first person on this forum to call for him to be the full-time starter in 08.

The divide came last season when he didn't seem to be able to handle his responsibilities.

Again, for the 100th time... no one has ever questioned the guy's physical talent.


Beyond that, I have no problem with people putting heat on McD for not sticking with him longer, just like Smith. That may well be a flaw in his coaching style that has to change.


So, check your facts before making claims around here. It's all easy to look up. No one was singing his praises earlier than I was.

go_broncos
11-08-2010, 10:56 AM
Portis? Hillis himself? Damn right we blew it...BIG time. The thing that irks me is that unlike what Popps and a few others try to propogate, this guy wasn't an unknown buried on the bench who up and surprised people. We SAW his talent with our own eyes when he was here. What I fail to understand is how professional coaches can look at this guy and think he doesn't fit in their system so you cut him. Huh? If he doesn't fit...maybe there's something wrong with your system. Maybe he needs some actual coaching? Maybe a guy who can run, block and catch and has the versitility to play 3 positions MUST have a place found for him?

Moreno may yet surprise me buy getting and remaining healthy and instantly turning into the player they thought he'd be but right now all I can see is that we had a stud runner on the bench whose on track for 1700 yards and McDaniels figured he wasn't good enough to play here. I bet he tears us apart next time we play the Browns. What a shame he's not doing this here. I think Orton would appreciate that kind of help in the backfield instead of what he's got now.

Good post..Most of us knew Hillis is a stud..I still remember the day when Hillis got injured. I said at that time..it is difficult to replace him. I still think we would have reached playoffs that year if he was not injured.
He is a great runner and very efficient in catching the ball.

Only a Moron can trade a player with that capability.
Added to that, we got Quinn who sucks.

Other teams should thank Mcd..He is doing to a great service to them.

broncocalijohn
11-08-2010, 10:57 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD

Is this a run that Moreno makes?

Watching that video almost wants to make me puke. So many knew how good he was and got screwed. McD better be around for awhile as to know we can forget about Hillis as we win many games, divisions and maybe some titles. If not, it was like he came in, ate our food, drank our best beer and wine, burned down our house and stole our wife/girlfriend/(both) and laughing all the way down the street.

TonyR
11-08-2010, 11:06 AM
Interesting that so many thought the Cutler trade was McD's grand mistake that would doom him and instead the Hillis trade appears to be the bigger mistake.

Bronco Yoda
11-08-2010, 11:19 AM
You'd better check your time-line.

I was probably the first person on this forum to call for him to be the full-time starter in 08.
BULL****!

The divide came last season when he didn't seem to be able to handle his responsibilities.

Again, for the 100th time... no one has ever questioned the guy's physical talent.
BULL****! Plenty of your Hillis-Haters club members questioned just that. But yes, you get the award for championing the 'Hillis is too stupid to play in our system'.

Beyond that, I have no problem with people putting heat on McD for not sticking with him longer, just like Smith. That may well be a flaw in his coaching style that has to change.
According to you McD can do no wrong. We all see it.

So, check your facts before making claims around here. It's all easy to look up. No one was singing his praises earlier than I was.

We don't need to look anything up. We all saw how you championed the Hillis-hate fest. Don't even try to play this off.

Beantown Bronco
11-08-2010, 11:21 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD

Is this a run that Moreno makes?

Yup.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8157d4c1/Knowshon-Moreno-Highlight-WK-17-vs-Chiefs-2009

TheProfessor
11-08-2010, 11:23 AM
Yup.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8157d4c1/Knowshon-Moreno-Highlight-WK-17-vs-Chiefs-2009

Not even close

Beantown Bronco
11-08-2010, 11:27 AM
Not even close

You're right. Moreno didn't have the benefit of 3 Pats defenders wrapping up and tackling each other instead of the ball carrier. Honestly, Moreno's run was the tougher of the two.

bendog
11-08-2010, 11:29 AM
Moreno was an 11 pick and the other guy was already on the roster. And Den needed front 7 help.

TheProfessor
11-08-2010, 11:32 AM
You're right. Moreno didn't have the benefit of 3 Pats defenders wrapping up and tackling each other instead of the ball carrier. Honestly, Moreno's run was the tougher of the two.

Damn I know this has been a tough season but lying to yourself is no solution.

OOJack
11-08-2010, 11:34 AM
McD has been nothing if not consistent in one area: the best guy at each position plays. Shanny draft pick or McD draft pick. Shanny FA or McD FA. High draft pick or low draft pick or undrafted FA....doesn't matter. The best guy plays.

All you haters can suck it. A healthy Moreno > Hillis, and if you disagree you are a jaded idiot.
interesting, yet foolish take

Taco John
11-08-2010, 11:34 AM
You're right. Moreno didn't have the benefit of 3 Pats defenders wrapping up and tackling each other instead of the ball carrier. Honestly, Moreno's run was the tougher of the two.

:rofl:

Popps
11-08-2010, 11:38 AM
We don't need to look anything up. We all saw how you championed the Hillis-hate fest. Don't even try to play this off.

Actually, look at the first post in the thread. I asked a fair question... he's very talented, why isn't he on the field?

It was a fair question... one people are still asking right now.

I've never "hated" anyone, and if you believe that... you just don't read very well.

OOJack
11-08-2010, 11:38 AM
No Hillis is an idiot. And so are you.

another insightful take

Beantown Bronco
11-08-2010, 11:44 AM
Damn I know this has been a tough season but lying to yourself is no solution.

Lying to myself about what? Did they wrap Hillis up or go for the "ESPN" hit? Anyone can score when defenders put up that kind of effort.

go_broncos
11-08-2010, 11:45 AM
another insightful take

Kaylore..He used to be a Mcd lover and supported him blindly..
Now..he divorced Mcd..

Merlin
11-08-2010, 11:53 AM
Again, for the 100th time... no one has ever questioned the guy's physical talent.
You clearly did when you stated that Mike Bell was a FAR better RB. But as usual, why would you rely on facts when your misrepresentations are you MO. You stating something gives it no factual weight. Like your comments on the Browns OL (which the facts clearly state the contrary in football outsiders data), you keep on repeating yourself in the hope that somehow it magically becomes so...that only happens with the choir, anyone with a little critical thought can discern your inability to own your mediocre takes in the past couple of yrs...it is sad when you let your blind allegiance to an incompetent coach blind you so...you owe him nothing, time to break ties and be your own man again.

TheReverend
11-08-2010, 11:54 AM
You'd better check your time-line.

I was probably the first person on this forum to call for him to be the full-time starter in 08.

The divide came last season when he didn't seem to be able to handle his responsibilities.

Again, for the 100th time... no one has ever questioned the guy's physical talent.


Beyond that, I have no problem with people putting heat on McD for not sticking with him longer, just like Smith. That may well be a flaw in his coaching style that has to change.


So, check your facts before making claims around here. It's all easy to look up. No one was singing his praises earlier than I was.

It's actually just another (in a long line of) example of how you completely changed your prior personal beliefs to whatever McDaniels sold you.

Quite sad, really.

cutthemdown
11-08-2010, 12:08 PM
Hillis did not fit here.

-\
And you call someone pathetic. And you're rude.

I guess he didn't fit. He plays hard, runs hard, play physical. Broncos are soft and weak.

Bronco Yoda
11-08-2010, 12:09 PM
Actually, look at the first post in the thread. I asked a fair question... he's very talented, why isn't he on the field?

It was a fair question... one people are still asking right now.

I've never "hated" anyone, and if you believe that... you just don't read very well.

Coaches (at all levels) do this stuff all the time. They have 'their' favorites, there's personality conflicts and what not.

Didn't you ever play football or some sort of team sports in school? I bet we could all recite our own stories about bone-headed coaches. I know I can.

Popps
11-08-2010, 12:17 PM
It's actually just another (in a long line of) example of how you completely changed your prior personal beliefs to whatever McDaniels sold you.

Quite sad, really.

Incorrect, but if that makes you feel better about yourself and contributes to your self-confidence, have at it. I have no problem being a villain for our ills. I sleep fine, brother.

The timeline was simple...

1. I called for Hillis to start back in 08 and was among the first to sing his praises.

2. McD took over and Hillis couldn't earn a prominent role, as he failed to do under Shanahan until injury forced him into the line-up.

3. I asked the question... why?

4. I gave McD the benefit of the doubt when he said that Hillis wasn't the right fit for the system. (That was before our running game struggled so mightily.)

5. I've said in no uncertain terms that I EXPECT and UNDERSTAND why McD will get bashed over this.


So, no changing of opinion... I simply let a situation play out before panicking. The situation played out, and right now... McD deserves the heat for not sticking with Hillis longer.

I've also been vocal about the Smith trade and my displeasure.


So, you can spin it whichever way makes you feel best. Trust me, man... I'm not sweating it.

Popps
11-08-2010, 12:20 PM
Coaches (at all levels) do this stuff all the time. They have 'their' favorites, there's personality conflicts and what not.

Didn't you ever play football or some sort of team sports in school? I bet we could all recite our own stories about bone-headed coaches. I know I can.

Yep, played football... yep, I know coaches have their favorites. I just wonder why so many Shanahan guys were McD faves... and Hillis wasn't.

I wondered, like we all wondered.

I didn't trade the guy.

I said he was extremely talented, and yet might not be a great practice player. I still believe that's the case. But, I'm completely understanding of the position that McD needs to learn to coach up problem players, instead of just cutting ties.

He's got a hair-trigger. Thus far, it's worked a couple of times... and failed a couple of other times. This one just hits home because of our running game.

If our passing game was struggling, we'd be hearing about Cutler.

It is what it is. Life goes on.

Archer81
11-08-2010, 12:21 PM
Moreno was an 11 pick and the other guy was already on the roster. And Den needed front 7 help.


I remember posters and commentators declaring all Denver's offense needed was a bellcow back to pair with Hillis. It completely amuses the **** out of me that people remember how "awesome" the 2008 offense was but leave out how decimated our RB's were.

And what is Robert Ayres? A TE? He was front 7 help taken in the first round.

****.

:Broncos:

Popps
11-08-2010, 12:23 PM
I remember posters and commentators declaring all Denver's offense needed was a bellcow back to pair with Hillis. It completely amuses the **** out of me that people remember how "awesome" the 2008 offense was but leave out how decimated our RB's were.

And what is Robert Ayres? A TE? He was front 7 help taken in the first round.

****.

:Broncos:

We revamped the entire front 7 and were extremely active in FA at those positions.

Problem is, aside from injuries... we haven't gotten a ton of production from the guys we brought in.

So, it wasn't that we didn't TRY to address the problems, it's that it didn't work... yet.

Bronco Yoda
11-08-2010, 12:26 PM
No worries Popps. It's nothing personal. We're all Bronco fans. albeit a VERY angry lot right now!

(just admit you were wrong and all is forgiven...lol)

You get the yelling at since we can't personaly choke McD and write in big huge letters '#22 U FAIL'.

(just walk the plank of shame already... get it over with...hehe)

Go Broncos!

Popps
11-08-2010, 12:31 PM
No worries Popps. It's nothing personal. We're all Bronco fans. albeit a VERY angry lot right now!


Dude, aside from Hillis helping my fantasy squad, I'm as pissed as anyone. I love the guy's running style. It's painful to watch him running somewhere else.
I totally get it. I gave McD the benefit of the doubt, here... and this time, it didn't work out. Conversely, I couldn't be happier that Cutler and Alligator-arms Marshall (see that yesterday?) and their big salaries are gone.

So, you hit some... you miss some. Shanny signed Dale Carter, let Sharpe and Berry walk... signed iHop and of course... Lelie over Reed.

S H I T H A P P E N S.


If McD doesn't get things turned around, he'll be gone. This trade illustrates a potential problem... or, maybe he'll use that ruthless attitude to establish the kind of team he wants. Time will tell.





Go Broncos!

Amen brother.

Archer81
11-08-2010, 12:36 PM
We revamped the entire front 7 and were extremely active in FA at those positions.

Problem is, aside from injuries... we haven't gotten a ton of production from the guys we brought in.

So, it wasn't that we didn't TRY to address the problems, it's that it didn't work... yet.


Careful Popps, you dont want to sound like a McDaniels supporter. Swear to God around here lately is like people in the 1950's seeing communists everywhere.

:Broncos:

Popps
11-08-2010, 12:38 PM
Careful Popps, you dont want to sound like a McDaniels supporter. Swear to God around here lately is like people in the 1950's seeing communists everywhere.

:Broncos:



I'm just going to give the guy a chance. If he fails, we'll move on.

People don't like that?

Oh well.

bendog
11-08-2010, 12:40 PM
I remember posters and commentators declaring all Denver's offense needed was a bellcow back to pair with Hillis. It completely amuses the **** out of me that people remember how "awesome" the 2008 offense was but leave out how decimated our RB's were.

And what is Robert Ayres? A TE? He was front 7 help taken in the first round.

****.

:Broncos:

I realize you have some need to argue that Moreno is better than Hillis, and Hillis was too dumb to understand the offense, and McDaniels didn't start Moreno to justify taking him with the first pick, and I also realize Hillis did fumbel and miss assignments, which Moreno does as well. But to assert that Den shouldn't have addressed the front 7 with the entire first day is beyond ignorance, and anyone who has watched Denver for the at all during any part of the past 20 years should know that teams can find value at running back late in the draft. The ONLY team leading it's division with a first roudn pick as tailback is Tennesse. If nothing else showed you McDaniels was a arrogant guy lacking expericence, that pick should have done it.

Archer81
11-08-2010, 12:56 PM
I realize you have some need to argue that Moreno is better than Hillis, and Hillis was too dumb to understand the offense, and McDaniels didn't start Moreno to justify taking him with the first pick, and I also realize Hillis did fumbel and miss assignments, which Moreno does as well. But to assert that Den shouldn't have addressed the front 7 with the entire first day is beyond ignorance, and anyone who has watched Denver for the at all during any part of the past 20 years should know that teams can find value at running back late in the draft. The ONLY team leading it's division with a first roudn pick as tailback is Tennesse. If nothing else showed you McDaniels was a arrogant guy lacking expericence, that pick should have done it.


Actually I dont feel the need to argue Moreno is better than Hillis. Stats wont prove it, so then I have to base what I think on opinion and that substantially weakens my argument, so I wont make that assertion. For whatever reason, Moreno (who missed part of last year's camp) beat out Hillis, whose talent is not being argued. He did not get the offense. He then put himself in McDaniel's doghouse, the solution was to send him somewhere else where he could make an impact. It sucks for us that we had to lose a good back (5 TOOL PLAYER!) because of a personality clash. But that's how it goes sometimes.

The fact is 4 of Denver's first 6 picks were defense. Not entirely front 7, but defense. Then there were the college freeagents that denver picked up. Attempts were made. As Popps said, they have not worked out yet. And no kidding with Shanahan's system any back with good balance and decent vision could make the running game work, but that was with Shanahan's system. McDaniels is not Shanahan, and to expect him to be or to run his offense the same way is what is ridiculous.

This is more evidence for my theory that as fans, we are immensely spoiled. We expected to field a competent, competitive team every season, and since 2006 we have allowed ourselves to believe the moves made by Shanahan or McDaniels will work exactly as expected and that players will perform in a manner reminiscent of Denver's championship teams.

I wont bag on McDaniels for what has happened this season or what will happen the next 8 weeks until the season is over. Denver needs a talent and depth infusion, and I will continue to stick with giving him a third year. If this team is doing this next year, I am off the "bandwagon" and will be bleating just as loudly as some on this board.

Until then I dont see the value of trashing everything and anything McDaniels does. My advice to some people who frequent this board...be constructive. Mock type haiku's ending with McDumb****/Dip**** is tired. By now we get it you dont like the HC. Ending every post with it makes discussion impossible.

Bendog, the previous paragraph was not directed at you.

:Broncos:

bendog
11-08-2010, 01:27 PM
Look any way you hash this, there is a serious lack of talent in the front seven. And the only real upgrade that was attempted was Ayers. The free agents are retreads in in Williams case it was obvious he was done. Marcus Thomas was a journeyman 4-3 DT whom they tried to play out of position at NT and he's still lingering around. DJ is an above avg 4-3 linebacker, but he's out of position. The defense is an embarrsement.

And in the 2009 draft Den only took 4 defensive players, and one of those was A. Smith which was simply inexplicable in what McDaniels gave up and the other two were also defensive backs who aren't starting. It was incompetent. The passed on Orakapo and Cushing to take Moreno. I could actually defend trading down from 11 esp if they really wanted Smith and needed an extra top 40 pick, and passing on Orakapo and settling on Ayers.

Then in 2010 they shoot the first FIVE picks on offense, and don't take a front 7 guy till the 242 slot! WTF!

These are the free agent moves that Popps says were attempts at upgrades. color me unenthused by these stiffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Denver_Broncos_season


Xanders and McDaniels may be trying their best, but it's not working. The best I can say is that at least in 2010 the first 6 guys they took appear to be actual players (Tebow gets a pass at this pt imo), and while a team cannot build a defense via FA, it may be that Bowlen has constrained the payroll and limited the ability to make desperation moves.

Popps
11-08-2010, 01:36 PM
Look any way you hash this, there is a serious lack of talent in the front seven. And the only real upgrade that was attempted was Ayers.

Well, and Doom was set on the other side... and DJ figured in.

So, we had 3 line spots and one ILB spot to fill. They brought in a boatload of players to try to do so, with limited success.

I actually loved the Williams pick-up, and I think we did O.K. at finding role-players, just not marquee starters up front.

People have also noted that Thomas has improved, though the jury is out, for me.

I think what you're saying is that we should have drafted more DL, which I will always agree with. But, again... they chose to draft one OLB high, and some secondary help... and tried to do the line work in FA.

The results have been less than stellar, but again... I'm not sure we can judge this team without Ayers and Doom here. Take away your two best pass-rushers and best outside run defender, and it's tough to critique what you're seeing.

So, it's not that we didn't try to make upgrades... we just didn't try via the draft as heavy as FA.

I'd still like to see us go heavier on both lines in this upcoming draft, and I'd like to see us nab a top tier player for either line in FA. We need at least one established player up front... similar to what the Raiders did with Seymour.

bendog
11-08-2010, 02:25 PM
Well, I have a somewhat different take, but i'm not sure McDaniels is really at fault. He WAS talking trade cutler before cutler learned of it and got pissy. I don't want to rehash all that crap, but that's the fact. I don't think a first year coach with no experience does that without telling managment. I think Bowlen's been very active in cutting payroll. And I think there's a good reason about risking eli manning like money on a guy with type 1 diabetes. And while shanny didn't seem to have issues with Marshall's antics, I can see not giving him a contract that 100 catch per year guys get, and he does have some hip issues.

So, for one reason or another, McDaniels has ended needing to spend one picks on a WR and QB. I think it was Bowlen not wanting to pay bonus money to vets before the lockout, and wanting to reduce the payroll because the new CBA may have lower caps, and teams with a lot locked up in vets will suffer.

The 2009 draft is indefensible. But maybe McDaniels has a learning curve. And teams sometimes have a bad draft even when their organizaiton is in place. Given the 2010 draft, I don't thing McDaniels is really that bad. It's not like the guys he's drafting on offense (besides Moreno) aren't fitting a need. But, still that's not giving him a pass on Moreno or Smith. He screwed up.

But what I'm pissed about is an overall lack of talent, and that comes down to management. A team doesn't blow up the offense that racked up the second most yards and ignore a really crummy defense, and not seriously regress ... esp when it's cuttng payroll. Imo Bowlen is ripping off the fans because he sure isn't passing along savings, and I'll be surprised if McDaniels isn't the fall guy in 2011. If Tebow can play, he might get "saved" though.

Kaylore
11-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Peyton Hillis still sucks.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-08-2010, 03:21 PM
Peyton Hillis still sucks.

Keep f--king that chicken Khan....

Popps
11-08-2010, 03:33 PM
But what I'm pissed about is an overall lack of talent, and that comes down to management.

There are a couple schools of thought, and you represent one of them. The other says that we didn't really "blow up" anything... rather, let go of something that was more fictional than factual. For all the yards we racked up... Cutler wasn't a leader, Marshall wasn't worth what he wanted and the defense, well... we know that most of those guys are out of work.

I put up a thread recently inviting people to critique the general talent level at all positions since McDaniels took over. It wasn't a combative thread, just a place to voice your opinion. Most seemed to think we were on par or slightly improved from an overall, departmental talent perspective.

Now, we're not putting together a record that shows that.... no question. We have lost a couple of very close games, and we're a couple of bad snaps/bad calls/bad plays from being a .500 team. We got trounced in one game, but the rest were competitive.

But, wins are all that matter. Fans aren't going to be patient while we wait to get healthy, etc. I totally get why people are impatient.

I'm just in the camp that when we scrapped the old team and went a new direction... expected a 2-3 year rebuilding period, minimum. I put us right around .500 this year with a healthy squad. So, aside from the Raiders melt-down, not much this year has surprised me.

Hence, I'm not displaying the range you see from a lot of posters here. Doesn't mean I'm not upset about losing games. It's a drag. I'm just not all that surprised, and I plan to judge this team on a 2-3 year time-table.

You don't bring in a first-time, young head coach... and then can him if you're not a playoff team immediately. You bring in a guy like McDaniels because you want to make systemic changes, and those simply don't happen overnight.

I'm also not surprised that a young coach in the B.B. mold has made some bold moves, and some bad ones. (And some good ones.) Yes, I'd LOVE to see Hillis running for us. I've stated many times that I think, like Shanahan... McD may have a very itchy trigger finger. So, he's got to prove himself after making a move like trading Hillis.

Of course, next year... if we're winning and running the ball well, I don't care about Hillis. No one should. I'll be looking at net-net results... I'm just looking at them in a different time-frame than some here.

I also don't buy that Bowlen is just trying to sell of the team, or any of that other stuff. We just extended Doom to a nice contract, and I expect us to extend Champ. This labor situation is scary, and I don't blame teams for being cautious.

I think this team probably has a bit more talent than you're giving them credit for... if you start factoring in the young guys like Thomas, Tebow, Decker, Ayers, Doom, Cox, Royal, etc. We're just missing a few pieces... we've had some bad luck, and like all teams... we do have major question marks.

But, like I said in another post, I think the NFL is so mediocre right now, a few solid moves in the right direction could put us in contention very quickly with the talent we have.

I'll also admit that I'm a homer, love my team and some of this could be wishful thinking. We shall see.

Either way, you give the guy another year to let his team get healthy and add a few more pieces. The disclaimer here is that if we start playing like we did against Oakland every week. Then, we'll all revise our timelines, no matter what side we're on.

Gutless Drunk
11-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Keep f--king that chicken Khan....

He's nothing more than a "2nd string fullback"... who just happens to have rushed for more yards than our entire team.

bendog
11-08-2010, 04:00 PM
Talent. I wasn't really clear. What I tried to say was that it was too early to give up on the drafts. Moreno is journeyman. They're weak in the offensive backfield. We have no idea what Tebow can do. WR is probably solid. They have 3 offensive linemen we know are decent to real good, and Walton maybe ok too. Depending on Tebow, they may have a solid nucleus, but it's too soon to really tell about Tebow or the guys drafted and not in the first round.

On defense they just haven't invested the draft choices. I tried to post that it's probably not all McDaniels. No team can build a defense on FA. They have to draft a nucleus.

I understand you post that denver's offense wasn't that good in shanny's last year, but the facts don't support you. Den had the 9th rushing attack in 2007, and 8th in 2006. 2008 was Cutler's coming out year and the running game fell apart with injuries. Scoring increased each year in 2006-2008. They were 16th in scoring even with the defective tailback situation in 2008. This team in 22nd in scoring and dead last in rushing. Den has not been dead last in running since FLOYD LITTLE WAS drafted.

I know you have your cred stuck in Cutler sucking, but no qb has really succeeded with Martz except for Warner, and that guy will have dementia by age 65 with all the hits he took. Orton's putting up incredible numbers to no effect in a qb scheme that made Cassel a star, and he's pretty average. The 2008 offense was not the offense of the AFC championship, but they were better than the talent Bowlen's tossing out today, and shanny was in what for him was rebuild mode. There was perhaps a good reason to blow up the offense, but it happened. Ignoring reality doesn't really make taking this crap squad any easier, imo.

ZONA
11-08-2010, 04:05 PM
Peyton Hillis still sucks.

I usually don't think things you say are idiotic but for you to say Hillis sucks IS idiotic. You may not like him and it's fair for you to say you don't like him but to say this guy sucks, especially after he just stepped on the Patriots faces today, is insane. Didn't he have like 3 TD's today, something like 240 yards from scrimage, 8 first downs, 180 yards rushing. Something like that anyway. Yeah, he pretty much sucks doesn't he.

Taco John
11-08-2010, 04:15 PM
Peyton Hillis still sucks.

:rofl:

Khan trolling is an interesting sight to see...

Merlin
11-08-2010, 04:24 PM
I understand you post that denver's offense wasn't that good in shanny's last year, but the facts don't support you. Den had the 9th rushing attack in 2007, and 8th in 2006. 2008 was Cutler's coming out year and the running game fell apart with injuries. Scoring increased each year in 2006-2008. They were 16th in scoring even with the defective tailback situation in 2008. This team in 22nd in scoring and dead last in rushing. Den has not been dead last in running since FLOYD LITTLE WAS drafted.
Popps and the like distort data to make arguments they know are nothing more than simple lies, but they are left with nothing if they have to rely on facts. Denver had a VERY YOUNG offense, yet rated 2nd in the league in yds. Scoring points it was twelfth in the league if you only count points scored by the offense. If you also include field position to account for field goals that were nothing more than the result of STs getting a good return they were tenth in the league. Now include the fact that Denver had the worst field starting position that yr, then it is truly incredible what they accomplished. Again, an offense that had rookies, sophomores and juniors at virtually all the critical positions. Then there is the fact that the team lost 6 or 7 RBs to IR. All these facts notwithstanding, the McD lovers feel the need to argue that was a bad offense, and to make the argument more moronic, that this team is more talented (the gist of Popps poorly argued thread about personnel changes).

McD took an incredibly talented offense that was about to blossom, and just needed to be taught to be more disciplined in the RZ, and needed the QB to be taught to be more disciplined. Two years later we have an offense that is absolutely terrible at protecting the QB, rushing the ball, winning games (that young offense still managed to win 8 games despite a worse D and STs and was 1 game from the playoffs), and a QB that will get us nowhere in the future. It is absolutely astonishing that anyone with an ounce of understanding of football could suggest that this team has improved and/or the McD was given poor building blocks from which to grow a team.

Jerry Curl
11-08-2010, 04:51 PM
Moreno is a journeyman already?

cutthemdown
11-08-2010, 04:54 PM
Moreno is a journeyman already?

He's only a journeyman after we cut him and he bounces around a bit. Until then he's just a bust. Maroney? now he is a journeyman!!

Mr.Meanie
11-08-2010, 05:19 PM
Careful Popps, you dont want to sound like a McDaniels supporter. Swear to God around here lately is like people in the 1950's seeing communists everywhere.

:Broncos:

Reported

colonelbeef
11-08-2010, 05:20 PM
Popps and the like distort data to make arguments they know are nothing more than simple lies, but they are left with nothing if they have to rely on facts. Denver had a VERY YOUNG offense, yet rated 2nd in the league in yds. Scoring points it was twelfth in the league if you only count points scored by the offense. If you also include field position to account for field goals that were nothing more than the result of STs getting a good return they were tenth in the league. Now include the fact that Denver had the worst field starting position that yr, then it is truly incredible what they accomplished. Again, an offense that had rookies, sophomores and juniors at virtually all the critical positions. Then there is the fact that the team lost 6 or 7 RBs to IR. All these facts notwithstanding, the McD lovers feel the need to argue that was a bad offense, and to make the argument more moronic, that this team is more talented (the gist of Popps poorly argued thread about personnel changes).

McD took an incredibly talented offense that was about to blossom, and just needed to be taught to be more disciplined in the RZ, and needed the QB to be taught to be more disciplined. Two years later we have an offense that is absolutely terrible at protecting the QB, rushing the ball, winning games (that young offense still managed to win 8 games despite a worse D and STs and was 1 game from the playoffs), and a QB that will get us nowhere in the future. It is absolutely astonishing that anyone with an ounce of understanding of football could suggest that this team has improved and/or the McD was given poor building blocks from which to grow a team.

great post.

but but but the 2008 offense!!!111!

strafen
11-08-2010, 05:47 PM
Yep, played football... yep, I know coaches have their favorites. I just wonder why so many Shanahan guys were McD faves... and Hillis wasn't.

I wondered, like we all wondered.

I didn't trade the guy.

I said he was extremely talented, and yet might not be a great practice player. I still believe that's the case. But, I'm completely understanding of the position that McD needs to learn to coach up problem players, instead of just cutting ties.

He's got a hair-trigger. Thus far, it's worked a couple of times... and failed a couple of other times. This one just hits home because of our running game.

If our passing game was struggling, we'd be hearing about Cutler.

It is what it is. Life goes on.You always seem to find logic depending on the side you're on when you're trying to prove your point.
Having said that, I'm having a hard time buying into the fact that you don't understand why Hillis didn't earn the starting job as a rookie with Shanahan. And why YOU think Mcdaniels didn't play him, and I will later explain to you why he didn't make it with McD.

For starters, Peyton Hillis was a longshot late round pick (7th) as a FB to even make it as a starting RUNNING BACK as a rookie.
At the time we got him in 2008, there were plenty RB's Shanahan has been season-planning around.
We've got M. Pittman, Selvin Young, Ryan Torrain, Andre Hall, etc... that were pure running backs.
That was the pool Shanahan was going to be drawing from to select his RB fleet, and hence his starting guy.
Hillis didn't have a role in that scenario. again, he was a late round selection as a FB.
He was at best going to be used as a FB in the way Shanahan has used them in the past.

After the rash of injuries that disseminated our running backs, Hillis was called up to the plate to fill a different role. The role of a RB to try to stop the bleeding.
Hillis did his job and then some, running and catching the ball.
The guy flat out impressed. He got hurt, and that was the end of his season.

Now, with no RB's from the Shanny era to roll over the 2009 season under McDaniels, the Broncos drafted Knowshonn Moreno. We needed defense, McD drafted a RB.
Mcdaniels had a huge explanation to give as to why he drafted Moreno. He wasn't going to sit Moreno and play Hillis, eventhough anybody could see Hillis needed to be on the field.
McDaniels tried to use Hillis by putting him in a position to play where he wasn't going to be as effective. Kick returns, blocking were NOT Hillis forte.
The guy was misused.

I don't know how hard it is to understand Moreno was McDaniels' guy and Hillis or whoever had a shot to compete, weren't going to take the job away from Moreno.
To this day, Moreno is yet to run for a 100 yards in any given game so far in his career. Why is it that he kept playing?

Then, Mcdaniels finally gave Hillis significant playing time late in the season against the Chiefs.
Best performance by Hillis by then, he ran hard and was vintage Peyton Hillis.
Yet, many of the maners quickly came to the defense of Mcdaniels by saying pretty much Hillis performance in KC had no merits because it was in garbage time.
Go figure. Some of us had a sliver of hope Hillis was going to play the following week. He didn't and never did after that.

Now, to add insult to injury, Mcdaniels sends him to the worst team he could as to inflicting more humilliation as if he was going to be lost under the pile of the Cleveland Browns roster.
Hillis is now running the ball hard for the Cleveland Browns the only way he knows how and in the SAME way he did here in Denver. Nothing's changed. Same old guy we already knew about.

This is karma. Hillis had put McDaniels under the microscope in a time when McDaniels is already in the hot seat.

This has gathered national media attention as you may already know.

Whatever the reasons you've already stated as to why Hillis didn't play under Mcdaniels and why he wasn't the "starter" running back for Shanahan, have not in any way shape or form been discussesd as such in the media, locally, nationally or otherwise. None!

Gutless Drunk
11-08-2010, 05:49 PM
27459

Popps
11-08-2010, 05:49 PM
I usually don't think things you say are idiotic but for you to say Hillis sucks IS idiotic. You may not like him and it's fair for you to say you don't like him but to say this guy sucks, especially after he just stepped on the Patriots faces today, is insane. Didn't he have like 3 TD's today, something like 240 yards from scrimage, 8 first downs, 180 yards rushing. Something like that anyway. Yeah, he pretty much sucks doesn't he.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that his post was at least semi-sarcastic.

strafen
11-08-2010, 05:58 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that his post was at least semi-sarcastic.

I think he just presented to you verifiable date that backs his point up. Yet, you're still in denial.
Man up and say you were all wrong. That's fine. We already knew that, we just want to hear it from you. That's all ;)

go_broncos
11-08-2010, 06:14 PM
27459

they know nothing about football..We just need to believe whatever posters like Baja and popps say.

CEH
11-08-2010, 06:21 PM
He's only a journeyman after we cut him and he bounces around a bit. Until then he's just a bust. Maroney? now he is a journeyman!!

Realistically how many teams can Knowshown start on? 3 maybe 4 counting the Broncos?

He's Kevin Smith (either one)

Requiem
11-08-2010, 06:24 PM
Knowshon could probably start for a lot of teams in the NFL.

go_broncos
11-08-2010, 06:28 PM
knowshon could probably start for a lot of teams in the nfl.

lol

gunns
11-08-2010, 06:29 PM
Dude, aside from Hillis helping my fantasy squad, I'm as pissed as anyone. I love the guy's running style. It's painful to watch him running somewhere else.
I totally get it. I gave McD the benefit of the doubt, here... and this time, it didn't work out. Conversely, I couldn't be happier that Cutler and Alligator-arms Marshall (see that yesterday?) and their big salaries are gone.

So, you hit some... you miss some. Shanny signed Dale Carter, let Sharpe and Berry walk... signed iHop and of course... Lelie over Reed.

S H I T H A P P E N S.


If McD doesn't get things turned around, he'll be gone. This trade illustrates a potential problem... or, maybe he'll use that ruthless attitude to establish the kind of team he wants. Time will tell.





Amen brother.

It's about damn time. Props for finally saying it.

The bolded part, that's what makes me the most angry with McD....beginning to think he's Shanahan II, the latter years.

Popps
11-08-2010, 06:49 PM
It's about damn time. Props for finally saying it.

The bolded part, that's what makes me the most angry with McD....beginning to think he's Shanahan II, the latter years.

Yea, well... all coaches hit and miss. Shanahan brought us a couple of championships and had a laundry-list of hits in that time period, and some later on.

McDaniels just has to show results on the field, and the Hillis thing will be a non-issue.

We'll see what happens.

gunns
11-08-2010, 07:05 PM
Yea, well... all coaches hit and miss. Shanahan brought us a couple of championships and had a laundry-list of hits in that time period, and some later on.

McDaniels just has to show results on the field, and the Hillis thing will be a non-issue.

We'll see what happens.

There isn't any Bronco fan that doesn't give major props to Shanahan for 95-99. He was the man.

Since 2000 I can count on 1 hand the hits Shanahan made in the draft (and guess what, that includes Hillis) and there maybe a finger left over. Same for free agency although more fingers may be left. The results that McD is beginning to show is a sickeningly familiar penchant to Shanahan's 2000 talent. And he doesn't have two SB victories to hang on to.

Popps
11-08-2010, 07:33 PM
There isn't any Bronco fan that doesn't give major props to Shanahan for 95-99. He was the man.

Since 2000 I can count on 1 hand the hits Shanahan made in the draft (and guess what, that includes Hillis) and there maybe a finger left over. Same for free agency although more fingers may be left. The results that McD is beginning to show is a sickeningly familiar penchant to Shanahan's 2000 talent. And he doesn't have two SB victories to hang on to.

Our drafts were definitely horrible for about 10 years. We nabbed a few guys, but overall... really missed opportunity. That's why I'm thinking maybe we give a new coach more than 2 drafts before declaring him a failure.

Shanahan had a few hits in FA in the past 10 years, but not too many.

We need to be more efficient on both fronts, as a franchise.

Archer81
11-08-2010, 07:53 PM
There isn't any Bronco fan that doesn't give major props to Shanahan for 95-99. He was the man.

Since 2000 I can count on 1 hand the hits Shanahan made in the draft (and guess what, that includes Hillis) and there maybe a finger left over. Same for free agency although more fingers may be left. The results that McD is beginning to show is a sickeningly familiar penchant to Shanahan's 2000 talent. And he doesn't have two SB victories to hang on to.


Mike could have shot a busload of nuns between 1995-1999 and he wouldnt have been convicted. The man was God in Colorado.

Things change...and I personally blame Dale Carter. That sack of ****...

:Broncos:

go_broncos
11-08-2010, 08:02 PM
They showed Hillis in MNF..I hate you josh..hope you get fired and pls don't coach again.

Archer81
11-08-2010, 08:06 PM
They showed Hillis in MNF..I hate you josh..hope you get fired and pls don't coach again.


You are this board's Bob.

Good work.

:Broncos:

Br0nc0Buster
11-08-2010, 08:24 PM
While trading Hillis was a poor decision, they showed one of this TDs at the half
he ran an offtackle all the way into the endzone without being touched

that is what good blocking does, it actually opens lanes to run through

as good as Hillis is, he cant run over the 3 defenders that would be waiting in the hole for him on every play had he stayed here

I think this trade says a lot more about our flaws than anything else

when you aspire to be as good as the Browns at anything, you have some issues that need to be worked out

wandlc
11-08-2010, 08:28 PM
Not even close

I agree, not even close.

~Crash~
11-08-2010, 08:39 PM
While trading Hillis was a poor decision, they showed one of this TDs at the half
he ran an offtackle all the way into the endzone without being touched

that is what good blocking does, it actually opens lanes to run through

as good as Hillis is, he cant run over the 3 defenders that would be waiting in the hole for him on every play had he stayed here

I think this trade says a lot more about our flaws than anything else

when you aspire to be as good as the Browns at anything, you have some issues that need to be worked out

pop in a tape of the jets two years ago Hills was killing them and macking 3 and 4 player a run .

Archer81
11-08-2010, 08:42 PM
pop in a tape of the jets two years ago Hills was killing them and macking 3 and 4 player a run .


Forever in NFL speak.


:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2010, 08:46 PM
Hey guys. I think I saw that horse twitch. You might want to hit it again. :)

wandlc
11-08-2010, 09:01 PM
While trading Hillis was a poor decision, they showed one of this TDs at the half
he ran an offtackle all the way into the endzone without being touched

that is what good blocking does, it actually opens lanes to run through

as good as Hillis is, he cant run over the 3 defenders that would be waiting in the hole for him on every play had he stayed here

I think this trade says a lot more about our flaws than anything else

when you aspire to be as good as the Browns at anything, you have some issues that need to be worked out

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD

Like on this run

Homer Simpson
11-08-2010, 09:05 PM
*rabble rabble*

Hillis

*rabble rabble*

Spurned lover

*rabble rabble*

Yawn.

Br0nc0Buster
11-08-2010, 09:20 PM
pop in a tape of the jets two years ago Hills was killing them and macking 3 and 4 player a run .

oh you mean when we ran the zone blocking scheme that made us famous for getting 100 yard games from no name players?

unless of course you think our run blocking is the same now as it was then...

how bout you pop in some tape form last year and see what he did in our current blocking scheme
spoiler alert: not much better than anyone else

and again I am not trying to bash Hillis, he is a good player, I am just pointing out the line is our problem; Hillis was not the key to our run game

Br0nc0Buster
11-08-2010, 09:21 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea4fb/Peyton-Hillis-2-yard-TD

Like on this run

video didnt load, not sure what he did
but I was pointing out the play where he ran untouched for 35 yards in the endzone
he wouldnt be able to get to the line of scrimmage untouched in this offense

wandlc
11-08-2010, 09:39 PM
video didnt load, not sure what he did
but I was pointing out the play where he ran untouched for 35 yards in the endzone
he wouldnt be able to get to the line of scrimmage untouched in this offense

Loads fine for me, go to NFL Network and watch it.

~Crash~
11-08-2010, 09:49 PM
Forever in NFL speak.


:Broncos:

ummmmmmmmm I get it you are in denial but my god last wekk 160 yards tell me you need a pair of glasses zowie!

broncocalijohn
11-08-2010, 10:29 PM
oh you mean when we ran the zone blocking scheme that made us famous for getting 100 yard games from no name players?

unless of course you think our run blocking is the same now as it was then...

how bout you pop in some tape form last year and see what he did in our current blocking scheme
spoiler alert: not much better than anyone else

and again I am not trying to bash Hillis, he is a good player, I am just pointing out the line is our problem; Hillis was not the key to our run game

the fact that we blew draft picks for Maroney and kept trying different guys when we had the one that can at least do what the other RBs couldnt do. And if he couldnt, we werent losing any picks or cutting players to get stiffs to run for 1/2 yard.

s0phr0syne
11-08-2010, 10:32 PM
Because there's no such thing as too much Hillis:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=90094



I think all the Hillis-bilies should put there money where their mouth is.

Say Hillis does not approach a certain goal, you donate $20 to the mane. If he does, I'll donate $20 bucks.....

Either way TJ wins....


Hmmm, I would say that he should approach the 2009 stats of Jason Snelling in ATL, assuming he gets about 200 touches as well.

http://www.nfl.com/players/jasonsnelling/profile?id=SNE717004

Not ready to wager on it yet, because we'll have to see if he even makes the roster. But that's my prediction for now. Bump the thread closer to the season and we can talk monetary values.


Not sure if Ray should pay up since we never technically agreed to a gentleman's wager, but suffice to say that Hillis has met this benchmark already and is likely to surpass it in the coming weeks.

All the bandwagoners need to hold off and let some of us who have been supporting Hillis from the get-go enjoy this week as the McD nut swingers writhe around in misery making all kinds of random posts and excuses. I'm still hoping for the best with this coach, but it's nice to see some of my concerns playing themselves out as predicted. It'd be nicer to win.

footstepsfrom#27
11-08-2010, 10:56 PM
Yep, played football... yep, I know coaches have their favorites. I just wonder why so many Shanahan guys were McD faves... and Hillis wasn't.
Dude...are you serious? He just traded a 4th for an RB who can't play, and added him to his 1st rounder who can't stay on the field, and now he's dumped a guy likely to rush for 1700 yards, so who cares what the reason is but maybe somewhere along the line you might start asking why he can't judge RB talent? When something seems obvious you go with it.

Popps
11-08-2010, 11:14 PM
he can't judge RB talent?

So, you think that his assessment was that Hillis wasn't physically a talented runner?

I don't think that's the story at all.

Right or wrong... I think that had little to do with what happened.

He knew Marshall was immensely talented and couldn't get rid of him fast enough.

There was more in play here... agree with him or not.

strafen
11-08-2010, 11:19 PM
So, you think that his assessment was that Hillis wasn't physically a talented runner?

I don't think that's the story at all.

Right or wrong... I think that had little to do with what happened.

He knew Marshall was immensely talented and couldn't get rid of him fast enough.

There was more in play here... agree with him or not.Your credibility has run out.
You've got no more ammunicions...

~Crash~
11-08-2010, 11:36 PM
here is a photo that could of been this year but noooooooooooooooooooooo!

Cito Pelon
11-08-2010, 11:51 PM
Hillis is one bad dude. He's like a Neanderthal among men. Look at that sloping forehead, that low brow line, that small cranium. He's built like a bull and can run all day, though.

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 12:10 AM
So, you think that his assessment was that Hillis wasn't physically a talented runner?

I don't think that's the story at all.

Right or wrong... I think that had little to do with what happened.

He knew Marshall was immensely talented and couldn't get rid of him fast enough.
Eh...no he had him here an entire year before he sent him packing. Besides, we know why Marshall had to go and those two situations are nothing alike.
Can he judge RB talent? What would make you think so? He just traded a 4th for a guy he literally watched every day in practice and he can't play a lick. What possible reason could you offer for assuming he knows how to judge RB talent? So far every RB more he's made has either backfired or been ineffectual.

Popps
11-09-2010, 12:18 AM
Eh...no he had him here an entire year before he sent him packing..

Benched him for a game, then traded him that offseason.

Point being, do you think he traded Marshall because of his wide receiver skills?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think he traded Hillis because he thought he was physically untalented, which you suggested.

His move may have been wrong, but very unlikely was it because he thought Hillis had no physical talent.

Cito Pelon
11-09-2010, 01:26 AM
Maybe some of the current Bronco backs can look at Hillis and think to themselves, "I can run like that."

broncocalijohn
11-09-2010, 01:34 AM
Popps, a big difference is we cut BM knowing we had guys that could step up and also had a draft to work another prototype. When we cut Hillis, we were soft at RB and had to find a replacement in free agency since we didnt draft for RB (we had of course Moreno to start). Hillis was cheap unlike BM and a durable backup to Moreno. Since his great job with Cassel, he thinks he can fix guys like Quinn and even give some draft picks up (why didnt we get the same type of deal with Smith when we shipped the 2nd rounder to the Lions?). He wasnt a menace and if the talent was there at a bargain price, give him a chance to compete. Hell, Brandstater could have been better than Quinn if McD wanted a project.

extralife
11-09-2010, 02:30 AM
Maybe some of the current Bronco backs can look at Hillis and think to themselves, "I can run like that."

They can think it all they don't and it won't make it true.

Steve Prefontaine
11-09-2010, 06:34 AM
Benched him for a game, then traded him that offseason.

Point being, do you think he traded Marshall because of his wide receiver skills?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think he traded Hillis because he thought he was physically untalented, which you suggested.

His move may have been wrong, but very unlikely was it because he thought Hillis had no physical talent.

you are kidding. "may" have been wrong?

it was very ****ing wrong. especially considering the move to a power blocking scheme.

go_broncos
11-09-2010, 06:58 AM
you are kidding. "may" have been wrong?

it was very ****ing wrong. especially considering the move to a power blocking scheme.

Popps & Baja blindly supports Mcd and doesn't have individual opinion.
These type of posters think that true fans should never question our coach.
I will definitely question Mcd when he starts screwing up.
To me, This is the biggest blunder by Mcd
(hoping that cutler will never be successful).

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 06:59 AM
Benched him for a game, then traded him that offseason.

Point being, do you think he traded Marshall because of his wide receiver skills?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think he traded Hillis because he thought he was physically untalented, which you suggested.
His move may have been wrong, but very unlikely was it because he thought Hillis had no physical talent.
You miss the point entirely. I don't give a damn WHY he traded a guy who is on pace for 1700 yards rushing, especially since we NOW have the worst rushing attack in the NFL. The point is...HE"S GONE! I'm all for giving McDaniels credit where credit is due...I like this last draft for example. But let's face facts here. There is ONLY one fact you need to know:

Hillis is GONE...period.

That's on McD and nobody gives a damn WHY, especially since McD ha shown no evidence he can replace him with any of his choices. It's simple if you open your mind...McDaniels made a huge mistake here. Accept it, admit it, deal with it...and then we move on. I think all coaches are entitled to mistakes...this was a doozie.

go_broncos
11-09-2010, 07:06 AM
You miss the point entirely. I don't give a damn WHY he traded a guy who is on pace for 1700 yards rushing, especially since we NOW have the worst rushing attack in the NFL. The point is...HE"S GONE! I'm all for giving McDaniels credit where credit is due...I like this last draft for example. But let's face facts here. There is ONLY one fact you need to know:

Hillis is GONE...period.

That's on McD and nobody give a damn WHY, especially since McD ha shown no evidence he can replace him with any of his choices. It's simple if you open your mind...McDaniels made a huge mistake here. Accept it, admit it, deal with it...and then we move on. I think all coaches are entitled to mistakes...this was a doozie.

This is not one mistake..We traded picks also to get Quinn(in fact, I will never take him even if they give for free).
We got A.smith and then traded to Lions for backup TE.
We traded up to get Richard Quinn.
He started Lamont Jardon in place of Hillis..Everyone knows that Tebow is temporary answer for short yardage situations. Yet, he thought we are stupid to think about that option..then, after few weeks he starts Tebow..

Frankly, i don't think he knows what he is doing..It is better that Bowlen fires him before he starts trading players again.

Edit : This is the highlight..We traded a pick to get Maroney...

loborugger
11-09-2010, 07:12 AM
Hillis is one bad dude. He's like a Neanderthal among men. Look at that sloping forehead, that low brow line, that small cranium. He's built like a bull and can run all day, though.

http://nflbook.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/csonka.jpg

http://readandreact.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Riggins-drags-Dolphin.jpg

oubronco
11-09-2010, 07:12 AM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/a7/fullj.8eb8a8d597ae86a69c939e3ef3773670/8eb8a8d597ae86a69c939e3ef3773670-getty-98655480ms016_new_england_p.jpg

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 07:18 AM
This is not one mistake..We traded picks also to get Quinn(in fact, I will never take him even if they give for free).
We got A.smith and then traded to Lions for backup TE.
We traded up to get Richard Quinn.
He started Lamont Jardon in place of Hillis..Everyone knows that Tebow is temporary answer for short yardage situations. Yet, he thought we are stupid to think about that option..then, after few weeks he starts Tebow..

Frankly, i don't think he knows what he is doing..It is better that Bowlen fires him before he starts trading players again.

Edit : This is the highlight..We traded a pick to get Maroney...
Yep...he's made a number of blunders like all coaches do but this thread's about Hillis, not the other mistakes, but as a sidebar, Jimmy Johnson gave up the top pick in the draft for the right to draft Steve Walsh in the suplemental draft. He did so when he already had Troy Aikman. Johnson and McDaniels share the ultra agressive style and the free-wheeling approach to the draft. We need to see McD demonstrate he's learning from these mistakes and dramatically improving. I think he should get one more year to prove he's capable of that but if we don't see any marked improvement in another year then it's time for Pat to look elsewhere.

tsiguy96
11-09-2010, 07:22 AM
Yep...he's made a number of blunders like all coaches do but this thread's about Hillis, not the other mistakes, but as a sidebar, Jimmy Johnson gave up the top pick in the draft for the right to draft Steve Walsh in the suplemental draft. He did so when he already had Troy Aikman. Johnson and McDaniels share the ultra agressive style and the free-wheeling approach to the draft. We need to see McD demonstrate he's learning from these mistakes and dramatically improving. I think he should get one more year to prove he's capable of that but if we don't see any marked improvement in another year then it's time for Pat to look elsewhere.

most logical post ive seen here in awhile.

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 07:23 AM
Popps, a big difference is we cut BM knowing we had guys that could step up and also had a draft to work another prototype. When we cut Hillis, we were soft at RB and had to find a replacement in free agency since we didnt draft for RB (we had of course Moreno to start). Hillis was cheap unlike BM and a durable backup to Moreno.
Excellent points. On top of that Brandon Loyd and the other guys have stepped up to replace Marshall's production and we have nobody capable of that in our RB corp at this point.
Since his great job with Cassel, he thinks he can fix guys like Quinn and even give some draft picks up (why didnt we get the same type of deal with Smith when we shipped the 2nd rounder to the Lions?). He wasnt a menace and if the talent was there at a bargain price, give him a chance to compete. Hell, Brandstater could have been better than Quinn if McD wanted a project.
Brandstater actually looked better than anything I've seen from Quinn. I wish we'd resign him since the Colts let him go...or did he already sign somewhere else?

v2micca
11-09-2010, 08:10 AM
Benched him for a game, then traded him that offseason.

Point being, do you think he traded Marshall because of his wide receiver skills?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think he traded Hillis because he thought he was physically untalented, which you suggested.

His move may have been wrong, but very unlikely was it because he thought Hillis had no physical talent.


The difference is, McDaniels traded Marshall for 2 second round picks after tendering him to a 1st round pick during free agency. He gave Hillis away for a quarterback that Cleveland was about to cut and threw in a 6th round pick to sweeten the deal. That tells me that McDaniels obviously didn't value Hillis very highly. And he definitely did not consider him to be worth as much as Marshall.

Most Bronco fans agree that while they may not be 100% in favor of McDaniel's moves, they got very good value for both Cutler and Marshall. The Hillis and Smith trades generate a lot of anger because nobody likes being on the side of deal where you feel you were fleeced.

zdoor
11-09-2010, 08:12 AM
So, you think that his assessment was that Hillis wasn't physically a talented runner?

I don't think that's the story at all.

Right or wrong... I think that had little to do with what happened.

He knew Marshall was immensely talented and couldn't get rid of him fast enough.

There was more in play here... agree with him or not.

I think it's the most likely answer. Look at what he gave up for Maroney after 2 years of watching him play while with NE. There is no way in hell another coach in the league swaps a 4th for a 6th for that guy. He may know WR's but he doesn't know RB's. We loaded up on backs his first year and none of them were anything special. One of them we signed twice and still traded him away.

BTW... I don't dislike Moreno but we already had Hillis and didn't ahve to burn a 1 on him....

zdoor
11-09-2010, 08:17 AM
You miss the point entirely. I don't give a damn WHY he traded a guy who is on pace for 1700 yards rushing, especially since we NOW have the worst rushing attack in the NFL. The point is...HE"S GONE! I'm all for giving McDaniels credit where credit is due...I like this last draft for example. But let's face facts here. There is ONLY one fact you need to know:

Hillis is GONE...period.

That's on McD and nobody gives a damn WHY, especially since McD ha shown no evidence he can replace him with any of his choices. It's simple if you open your mind...McDaniels made a huge mistake here. Accept it, admit it, deal with it...and then we move on. I think all coaches are entitled to mistakes...this was a doozie.

I agree, our b****ing does nothing. But, this is a discussion board and it's a bye week. Most people watched other teams this weekend and unfortunately a guy we gave away is tearing it up... It frosts people a bit...

I think what is most concerning about this and the reason it keeps getting brought up is that trends are starting to form about the team after 1.5 seasons and things aren't looking all that rosy. I'm not ultra confident in what the current regime would do with a high pick and right now, that looks frighteningly possible.

CEH
11-09-2010, 08:33 AM
Yep, played football... yep, I know coaches have their favorites. I just wonder why so many Shanahan guys were McD faves... and Hillis wasn't.

I wondered, like we all wondered.

I didn't trade the guy.

I said he was extremely talented, and yet might not be a great practice player. I still believe that's the case. But, I'm completely understanding of the position that McD needs to learn to coach up problem players, instead of just cutting ties.

He's got a hair-trigger. Thus far, it's worked a couple of times... and failed a couple of other times. This one just hits home because of our running game.

If our passing game was struggling, we'd be hearing about Cutler.

It is what it is. Life goes on.

FWIW, A poor practice player is the current rumor going around town right now.

go_broncos
11-09-2010, 08:33 AM
Yep...he's made a number of blunders like all coaches do but this thread's about Hillis, not the other mistakes, but as a sidebar, Jimmy Johnson gave up the top pick in the draft for the right to draft Steve Walsh in the suplemental draft. He did so when he already had Troy Aikman. Johnson and McDaniels share the ultra agressive style and the free-wheeling approach to the draft. We need to see McD demonstrate he's learning from these mistakes and dramatically improving. I think he should get one more year to prove he's capable of that but if we don't see any marked improvement in another year then it's time for Pat to look elsewhere.

You are comparing to Jimmy Johnson who coached long time back.
Lot of things changed in NFL from that point.
QB's drafted in 1st round are expected to start immediately(unless he is behind a good QB).
Fans(including owners) are not patient to give coaches 3-5 years.
you need to compare Mcd to the rookie/second year coaches..
They took over teams that have less talent than us..yet, they play hard till the end and have better record than us.

I am afraid that if we give Mcd one more year..he might draft some ****ty player and trade few good players that we have currently.

Tebow is going to start next year..if we don't reach playoffs, are we going to say that Mcd needs one more year??

CEH
11-09-2010, 09:07 AM
Knowshon could probably start for a lot of teams in the NFL.

Knowshown gets love from the message boards but the pro football players around town are not impressed. Now with the Hillis going off good ole boy Eddie McCaffery is pouring on

Eddie Mac the most politcally correct person you will ever hear just said this

When asked "When should Tim Tebow start?" He said I just started him in Madden and he completed a two point conversion for me to win the game but then again Knowshow "broke a tackle and went 70" so I wish the NFL were like Madden

Ouch

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 09:10 AM
You are comparing to Jimmy Johnson who coached long time back.
Lot of things changed in NFL from that point.
QB's drafted in 1st round are expected to start immediately(unless he is behind a good QB).
Fans(including owners) are not patient to give coaches 3-5 years.
you need to compare Mcd to the rookie/second year coaches..
They took over teams that have less talent than us..yet, they play hard till the end and have better record than us.

I am afraid that if we give Mcd one more year..he might draft some ****ty player and trade few good players that we have currently.

Tebow is going to start next year..if we don't reach playoffs, are we going to say that Mcd needs one more year??
The only thing that's significantly changed from Jimmy Johnson's era is free agency. In any case, the comparison is merely related to personality and the fact that both demonstrate the characteristics typical of risk takers, qualities that transcend changes in the league. As for comparing McD to rookie coaches, at this point its the guy in KC who is looking like Belicheats best disciple. That doesn't mean McDaniels can't catch up, but he better do so quickly.

oubronco
11-09-2010, 09:18 AM
Yep...he's made a number of blunders like all coaches do but this thread's about Hillis, not the other mistakes, but as a sidebar, Jimmy Johnson gave up the top pick in the draft for the right to draft Steve Walsh in the suplemental draft. He did so when he already had Troy Aikman. Johnson and McDaniels share the ultra agressive style and the free-wheeling approach to the draft. We need to see McD demonstrate he's learning from these mistakes and dramatically improving. I think he should get one more year to prove he's capable of that but if we don't see any marked improvement in another year then it's time for Pat to look elsewhere.

I agree whole heartedly

Popps
11-09-2010, 09:31 AM
I think all coaches are entitled to mistakes...this was a doozie.

I didn't say it wasn't a mistake. In fact, I gave a list of some of the "greatest misses" our last coach had. All coaches are going to miss things.

What I said was... you claimed that he simply couldn't see Hillis had physical talent, and I said I doubted that was the case.

Hillis ended up in his doghouse, for whatever reason. He got buried on the roster because of it. He couldn't crack Shanahan's line-up as a starting RB, either. Shanahan also could have made a move to trade for Hillis... and he chose not to.

So, people are praising Mangini for using correctly and indeed he seems to be. But, Mangini got run out of NY and was hated around this forum and by most football fans just a couple short years ago. So, he's no saint, either.

I'm not remotely saying McD didn't screw this one up. I'm just talking about his reasoning v. your claim that he's just blind to a guy having physical talent.

Popps
11-09-2010, 09:35 AM
FWIW, A poor practice player is the current rumor going around town right now.

That was the rumor for a long time. That's the question this thread asked. Some coaches (Shanahan/McDaniels) won't put up with that.

If Hillis performed his blocking duties in practice like this...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NtjtnVrfTWI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NtjtnVrfTWI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

... a coach like Shanahan or McDaniels just isn't going to play games with him.

McDaniels said Hillis was a great runner and in the right system would be a great back. He was correct. But, he didn't think he was doing what he needed to do to play within our system.

Some coaches have a lot more patience than others. We'll see if over time... McD's hair-trigger works in his favor or against him. In this case, it certainly worked against him.

go_broncos
11-09-2010, 09:38 AM
That was the rumor for a long time. That's the question this thread asked. Some coaches (Shanahan/McDaniels) won't put up with that.

If Hillis performed his blocking duties in practice like this...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NtjtnVrfTWI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NtjtnVrfTWI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

... a coach like Shanahan or McDaniels just isn't going to play games with him.

McDaniels said Hillis was a great runner and in the right system would be a great back. He was correct. But, he didn't think he was doing what he needed to do to play within our system.

Some coaches have a lot more patience than others. We'll see if over time... McD's hair-trigger works in his favor or against him. In this case, it certainly worked against him.

Stop posting your bull**** videos..Everyone knows that Mcd has screwed up..
This is not the first time..He ****ing gave a draft pick to NE for Maroney.
He doesn't know how to identify the talent in RB position.

strafen
11-09-2010, 09:39 AM
Hillis ended up in his doghouse, for whatever reason. He got buried on the roster because of it. He couldn't crack Shanahan's line-up as a starting RB, either. Shanahan also could have made a move to trade for Hillis... and he chose not to.

So, people are praising Mangini for using correctly and indeed he seems to be. But, Mangini got run out of NY and was hated around this forum and by most football fans just a couple short years ago. So, he's no saint, either.

You're so ****ing full of ****, is not even funny.
You're a big clown with very little credibility.
How you freakin' moron try to insult our intelligence by saying Shanahan chose not to trade Hillis.
you're a certified MORON!
He was the starting RB for shanahan when everybody went down, you freakin' idiot!
He was converted to a RB to fill our needs.
Thanks to that move, he's now a RB in the NFL and a pretty darned good one.
It doesn't matter what the moron Mcdaniels did or did not do. The fact remais, McDanield ****ed up and you're trying to cover for him by bringing your BS speculation and theories nobody is buying and nobody has read anywhere else, except what comes out of your ass...

Old Dude
11-09-2010, 09:40 AM
Denver's O-Line has been a disaster all year.

If Hillis was still here, he wouldn't be producing anywhere near the numbers he's putting up in Cleveland. I don't think anyone short of Barry Sanders or Floyd Little could put up decent numbers behind this line.

So long as this line remains a mess, his trade value would never have improved anyway.

I'm happy for him that he found a team and a system that allows him to showcase his abilities.

Was it an unfavorable trade? Yeah, probably, and in retrospect. But we have much bigger issues.

Popps
11-09-2010, 09:42 AM
Denver's O-Line has been a disaster all year.

If Hillis was still here, he wouldn't be producing anywhere near the numbers he's putting up in Cleveland. I don't think anyone short of Barry Sanders or Floyd Little could put up decent numbers behind this line.

This is so obvious and yet... only a few people are going to even mention it.

I detailed Hillis' running lanes against Baltimore in pictures and you could drive a truck through some of the holes he had. Nothing against Hillis as a runner... he runs hard and has skills. But, those skills don't matter if you're running into 3 defenders behind the LOS.

If our line was doing its job, the backs we have would be running just fine.

oubronco
11-09-2010, 09:43 AM
Denver's O-Line has been a disaster all year.

If Hillis was still here, he wouldn't be producing anywhere near the numbers he's putting up in Cleveland. I don't think anyone short of Barry Sanders or Floyd Little could put up decent numbers behind this line.

So long as this line remains a mess, his trade value would never have improved anyway.

I'm happy for him that he found a team and a system that allows him to showcase his abilities.

Was it an unfavorable trade? Yeah, probably, and in retrospect. But we have much bigger issues.

Very good post, why do you think the O-line hasn't began to gell at all

go_broncos
11-09-2010, 09:48 AM
Denver's O-Line has been a disaster all year.

If Hillis was still here, he wouldn't be producing anywhere near the numbers he's putting up in Cleveland. I don't think anyone short of Barry Sanders or Floyd Little could put up decent numbers behind this line.

So long as this line remains a mess, his trade value would never have improved anyway.

I'm happy for him that he found a team and a system that allows him to showcase his abilities.

Was it an unfavorable trade? Yeah, probably, and in retrospect. But we have much bigger issues.

Hillis will put up better numbers than Moreno and Maroney.
why the hell do you trade Hills + Picks for Quinn(who sucks) and then give pick to NE for maroney(who sucks).
He trades Tony Scheffler to Detriot and then trades A.smith to get back TE.
I can go on and on...

Popps
11-09-2010, 09:53 AM
Denver's O-Line has been a disaster all year.

If Hillis was still here, he wouldn't be producing anywhere near the numbers he's putting up in Cleveland.

Found a few of the pics I did from the Ravens game. Hillis isn't touched for the first several yards of most of his runs. His longest came on a run where I didn't see a defender touch him at all. Not that he CAN'T break tackles, he clearly can. But, watch the video, and look at the holes this guy is running through... and then tell me those holes are there for our backs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ1-Gls5jK8

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=27278&stc=1&d=1286318334
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=27279&stc=1&d=1286318338
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=27280&stc=1&d=1286318342

Again, he does a great job of using the giant running lanes he's given. More than having Hillis back, I wish our line could produce lanes like that for ALL of our backs.

Popps
11-09-2010, 09:54 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=27280&stc=1&d=1286318342

Beantown Bronco
11-09-2010, 09:55 AM
Very good post, why do you think the O-line hasn't began to gell at all

1. injuries
2. I remember reading somewhere that it wasn't until like week 5 or 6 that they actually fielded the same five guys at the same five positions two weeks in a row.

Mile High Shack
11-09-2010, 09:56 AM
Denver's O-Line has been a disaster all year.

If Hillis was still here, he wouldn't be producing anywhere near the numbers he's putting up in Cleveland. I don't think anyone short of Barry Sanders or Floyd Little could put up decent numbers behind this line.

So long as this line remains a mess, his trade value would never have improved anyway.

I'm happy for him that he found a team and a system that allows him to showcase his abilities.

Was it an unfavorable trade? Yeah, probably, and in retrospect. But we have much bigger issues.

bingo, winning football starts up front on both sides...and we suck up front on both sides, hence why we suck

Old Dude
11-09-2010, 10:06 AM
Very good post, why do you think the O-line hasn't began to gell at all

Damned if I know.

I can take some guesses.

Start with the off-season Clady injury. I'm not sure he's fully recovered or ever will be. We do know that he missed virtually the entire preseason. Normally that might not be that big of an issue, but he's been working alongside new guys at LG and sometimes it seems like there are big communication breakdown. And we've seen lots of rotation there, with at least three different players shifting in and out of that position.

To a lesser extent, same problem with Kuper at RG.

Walton is having a hell of a time at Center, but a lot of that was to be expected.

I don't know what the deal is at RT. Harris got dinged up, in came Beadles, but I'm not sure he's doing better than Harris. It's like McD wants Beadles in the lineup, but he's afraid to put him on the line next to Walton, because then you multiply the rookie confusion.

I think a second part of all of this is that, for whatever reason, the assignments in McDs system are more complicated than most. Or maybe it's just that they seem to change from week to week. I do recall rumors of complaints about all of that by Kuper. Whether he actually said that or not, I don't know.

I'm hoping that in the bye week, they can simplify things a bit, teach some fundamentals, reduce the penalties (many of them stupid and unnecessary) and get some consistency in personnel.

I think 90% of the problem is on the line, but 10% does involve other people. Our TEs haven't seemed to be very effective at blocking, and this is supposed to be Graham's forte. What's up with that?

Moreno and Buckhalter missed a bunch of camp and I think they are a little confused as well. In a good running game, the RBs are also familiar with their O-Line and it's tendencies. Ask Terrell Davis about that.

I know that some people have identified missed blocks by receivers - especially Royal - as part of the problem, but fact is that we rarely get far enough downfield for that to even be an issue.

TonyR
11-09-2010, 10:21 AM
Just heard Klis on The Ticket on this topic. He said while the whole thing is indefensible if there is a defense of McD it's that Hillis apparently didn't react well after that fumble last year. He apparently got reprimanded and then went into a shell. He's apparently a "pat on the back guy" and not a guy who reacts well to getting yelled at. Klis then also mentioned what many have discussed here, that it took multiple injuries before Shanahan played him and injuries before Mangini played him. Apparently he just doesn't look good in practice for whatever reason but is the ultimate gamer. Overall an unfortunate situation but at the end of the day McD blew it with his stubbornness.

vancejohnson82
11-09-2010, 10:28 AM
You're so ****ing full of ****, is not even funny.
You're a big clown with very little credibility.
How you freakin' moron try to insult our intelligence by saying Shanahan chose not to trade Hillis.
you're a certified MORON!
He was the starting RB for shanahan when everybody went down, you freakin' idiot!
He was converted to a RB to fill our needs.
Thanks to that move, he's now a RB in the NFL and a pretty darned good one.
It doesn't matter what the moron Mcdaniels did or did not do. The fact remais, McDanield ****ed up and you're trying to cover for him by bringing your BS speculation and theories nobody is buying and nobody has read anywhere else, except what comes out of your ass...

wow....is this serious?

honestly...i can't tell whether this is a sarcastic over-the-top tongue in cheek bit...

or whether someone really typed this

strafen
11-09-2010, 11:02 AM
Just heard Klis on The Ticket on this topic. He said while the whole thing is indefensible if there is a defense of McD it's that Hillis apparently didn't react well after that fumble last year. He apparently got reprimanded and then went into a shell. He's apparently a "pat on the back guy" and not a guy who reacts well to getting yelled at. Klis then also mentioned what many have discussed here, that it took multiple injuries before Shanahan played him and injuries before Mangini played him. Apparently he just doesn't look good in practice for whatever reason but is the ultimate gamer. Overall an unfortunate situation but at the end of the day McD blew it with his stubbornness.
Twice in the Fan I've heard the rumors Hillis was hitting on McDaniels wife.
Whether that's true or not, nobody knows for sure anymore than what's been said so far...

strafen
11-09-2010, 11:11 AM
wow....is this serious?

honestly...i can't tell whether this is a sarcastic over-the-top tongue in cheek bit...

or whether someone really typed this
popps, and I assume you're one of his biggest supporters and followers here, is a propaganda maker.
He likes to make up **** and keeps on repeating the same crap over and over and over and over until he thinks everybody now believes his ****.
The guy loves to post false and imflammatory information to try to convincingly make his point with disregard for the damage he's causing to a player or to whoever he's trying to target
I've personally lost any respect I've had for the guy.

It's ironic how in the same thread he tried to undemine and destroy Hillis has now served to cement his legacy as one of the most unreliable, fake, and incredible posters on the mane.

The guy has been exposed as a fraud by his own words more than I've seen anyone else since I've been posting in message bboards dating back to 1988

vancejohnson82
11-09-2010, 11:19 AM
popps, and I assume you're one of his biggest supporters and followers here, is a propaganda maker.
He likes to make up **** and keeps on repeating the same crap over and over and over and over until he thinks everybody now believes his ****.
The guy loves to post false and imflammatory information to try to convincingly make his point with disregard for the damage he's causing to a player or to whoever he's trying to target
I've personally lost any respect I've had for the guy.

It's ironic how in the same thread he tried to undemine and destroy Hillis has now served to cement his legacy as one of the most unreliable, fake, and incredible posters on the mane.

The guy has been exposed as a fraud by his own words more than I've seen anyone else since I've been posting in message bboards dating back to 1988

I didnt know message board posters could have followers and supporters...but I agree a lot with Popps' overall postings more often than not.

Was McD WRONG for getting rid of Hillis? Given the outcome, sure.

However, what was Hillis doing here to solidify his roster spot...who knows? Maybe he wanted out just like Scheffler, Marshall and Cutler and was just moping around waiting to be traded...we will never know.

His play here after the 2008 season was less than impressive...his play in Cleveland this year has been more than impressive.

Bad personnel decision....yes.
Reason to fire a coach...no
SOmething to consider down the line when deciding on whether to fire coach...yes

Archer81
11-09-2010, 11:22 AM
The guy has been exposed as a fraud by his own words more than I've seen anyone else since I've been posting in message bboards dating back to 1988


So why did you change your s/n?


:Broncos:

bowtown
11-09-2010, 11:51 AM
So why did you change your s/n?


:Broncos:

[crickets]

broncosteven
11-09-2010, 11:51 AM
I didn't say it wasn't a mistake. In fact, I gave a list of some of the "greatest misses" our last coach had. All coaches are going to miss things.

What I said was... you claimed that he simply couldn't see Hillis had physical talent, and I said I doubted that was the case.

Hillis ended up in his doghouse, for whatever reason. He got buried on the roster because of it. He couldn't crack Shanahan's line-up as a starting RB, either. Shanahan also could have made a move to trade for Hillis... and he chose not to.

So, people are praising Mangini for using correctly and indeed he seems to be. But, Mangini got run out of NY and was hated around this forum and by most football fans just a couple short years ago. So, he's no saint, either.

I'm not remotely saying McD didn't screw this one up. I'm just talking about his reasoning v. your claim that he's just blind to a guy having physical talent.

Shanny did get Torian and LJ so maybe since he got Torian off the street and he had traded for Mcnab he was cool with his backfield.

To say Shanny passed on trading for Hillis makes Shanny dumber for not seeing Hillis's talent is a lame reach considering all the intangibles involved.

BTW Hillis was a rookie in 2008, Shanny was always hesitant to give rookies starting gigs, he even waffeled on starting Portis out of the gate. Plus Selvin Young was the starter and it was his job to lose.

Where mCd failed was not finding a way to use Hillis, then putting the guy in the dog house for a couple mistakes, mistakes his starting rookie RB made.

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 12:14 PM
I didn't say it wasn't a mistake. In fact, I gave a list of some of the "greatest misses" our last coach had. All coaches are going to miss things.

What I said was... you claimed that he simply couldn't see Hillis had physical talent, and I said I doubted that was the case.
I didn't say he thought Hillis lacked talent, that's how you interpreted my remarks. I said he hasn't demonstrated that he can evaluate RB talent, which he hasn't. Anyone knows Chris Johnson has talent. That's a far cry from being able to spot it before it emerges. Again...I don't CARE why he got rid of him...the fact is we got hosed on this trade and nothing can sugarcoat that in any way.
Hillis ended up in his doghouse, for whatever reason. He got buried on the roster because of it. He couldn't crack Shanahan's line-up as a starting RB, either. Shanahan also could have made a move to trade for Hillis... and he chose not to.
Good lord dude...wake up. Who gives a **** why Shanny did this or that...the same guy just benched Donavan McNabb with a game on the line in the 4th quarter, so he's not firing on all cylanders either. Besides, Hillis was a freaking rookie and a 7th round pick back then and Shanny had several other options to choose from, but who really gives a crap what our former head coach thought or did...he made mistakes also but we're not talking about Shanahan here...and Shanny didn't TRADE HIM FOR CRAP like McDaniels did. Your standard answer for why McDaniels made this colosal blunder is to try to claim that nobody knew Hillis was going to be any good including Shanahan or to push the idea of some mysterious reason known only to Josh McDaniels. My point is I don't CARE. As for knowing he had talent, even the fans knew once he got on the field so I assume he had some inkling this guy could play, and if not he really is a retard. That didn't stop him from dumping him for junk, and unless it comes out that Hillis is a rapist or doing dope or he's got 12 baby mamas...it remains a giant wart on McDaniels. McDaniels laid an egg on this plain and simple.
So, people are praising Mangini for using correctly and indeed he seems to be. But, Mangini got run out of NY and was hated around this forum and by most football fans just a couple short years ago. So, he's no saint, either.
Couldn't care less about Mangini or what he's done or not done...don't change the subject. The subject is Hillis...and now I'm steering it in the direction of pointing out that McDaniels has yet to show he can recognize RB talent when he has it or that he's capable of finding it.
I'm not remotely saying McD didn't screw this one up. I'm just talking about his reasoning v. your claim that he's just blind to a guy having physical talent.
Again...I didn't say that but who cares what his reasoning was? Maybe you can explain his reasoning with trading a 4th for Maroney? That trade dramatically demonstrates he's got a major weakness here. If he can watch a guy practice every day and then trade a 4th for him even though the guy can't play...what should that tell you about his ability to know RB talent when he sees it? It tells me it's lacking.

Like I said...when something is obvious, go with it.

rbackfactory80
11-09-2010, 12:16 PM
You're so ****ing full of ****, is not even funny.
You're a big clown with very little credibility.
How you freakin' moron try to insult our intelligence by saying Shanahan chose not to trade Hillis.
you're a certified MORON!
He was the starting RB for shanahan when everybody went down, you freakin' idiot!
He was converted to a RB to fill our needs.
Thanks to that move, he's now a RB in the NFL and a pretty darned good one.
It doesn't matter what the moron Mcdaniels did or did not do. The fact remais, McDanield ****ed up and you're trying to cover for him by bringing your BS speculation and theories nobody is buying and nobody has read anywhere else, except what comes out of your ass...

You're one mad dude. Reread that post a tell me you don't look insane. Breathe and take your meds dude, the sun will shine again tomorrow.LOL

go_broncos
11-09-2010, 12:37 PM
I didn't say he thought Hillis lacked talent, that's how you interpreted my remarks. I said he hasn't demonstrated that he can evaluate RB talent, which he hasn't. Anyone knows Chris Johnson has talent. That's a far cry from being able to spot it before it emerges. Again...I don't CARE why he got rid of him...the fact is we got hosed on this trade and nothing can sugarcoat that in any way.

Good lord dude...wake up. Who gives a **** why Shanny did this or that...the same guy just benched Donavan McNabb with a game on the line in the 4th quarter, so he's not firing on all cylanders either. Besides, Hillis was a freaking rookie and a 7th round pick back then and Shanny had several other options to choose from, but who really gives a crap what our former head coach thought or did...he made mistakes also but we're not talking about Shanahan here...and Shanny didn't TRADE HIM FOR CRAP like McDaniels did. Your standard answer for why McDaniels made this colosal blunder is to try to claim that nobody knew Hillis was going to be any good including Shanahan or to push the idea of some mysterious reason known only to Josh McDaniels. My point is I don't CARE. As for knowing he had talent, even the fans knew once he got on the field so I assume he had some inkling this guy could play, and if not he really is a retard. That didn't stop him from dumping him for junk, and unless it comes out that Hillis is a rapist or doing dope or he's got 12 baby mamas...it remains a giant wart on McDaniels. McDaniels laid an egg on this plain and simple.

Couldn't care less about Mangini or what he's done or not done...don't change the subject. The subject is Hillis...and now I'm steering it in the direction of pointing out that McDaniels has yet to show he can recognize RB talent when he has it or that he's capable of finding it.

Again...I didn't say that but who cares what his reasoning was? Maybe you can explain his reasoning with trading a 4th for Maroney? That trade dramatically demonstrates he's got a major weakness here. If he can watch a guy practice every day and then trade a 4th for him even though the guy can't play...what should that tell you about his ability to know RB talent when he sees it? It tells me it's lacking.

Like I said...when something is obvious, go with it.

Good post.
I knew it when he started Lamont Jordan instead of Hillis.
why in the hell do you trade 4th round pick to get Maroney(he is supposed to get cut).
I find it funny when he compares with shanny who got fired by bowlen as he continuously drafted below average players.
He was given more chances as we won 2 SB's due to him.
I am eager to see how our team responds after bye week..
I am done with moral victories..We need to win some games starting this week.

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 12:48 PM
I wonder where this team would be right now if we had spent that 12th pick on Orakpo instead of Moreno and we had Hillis starting.

Archer81
11-09-2010, 12:57 PM
I wonder where this team would be right now if we had spent that 12th pick on Orakpo instead of Moreno and we had Hillis starting.


The same place we would be if we drafted ED REED...


:Broncos:

broncocalijohn
11-09-2010, 01:06 PM
Twice in the Fan I've heard the rumors Hillis was hitting on McDaniels wife.
Whether that's true or not, nobody knows for sure anymore than what's been said so far...

If that is true, then he is as dumb as people have claimed he is. You have got to want a trade to do something like that.

Beantown Bronco
11-09-2010, 01:13 PM
I wonder where this team would be right now if we had spent that 12th pick on Orakpo instead of Moreno and we had Hillis starting.

Unless you're including Maurkies Pouncey in this fantasy, then it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

Kaylore
11-09-2010, 03:19 PM
Unless you're including Maurkies Pouncey in this fantasy, then it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

What? You mean we have issues in our run blocking?

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 04:06 PM
Unless you're including Maurkies Pouncey in this fantasy, then it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
A probable 1700 yard rusher...OK let's say behind this line only 1200...who can catch out of the backfield and another stud pass rusher would make a significant difference, sure would.

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 04:12 PM
If that is true, then he is as dumb as people have claimed he is. You have got to want a trade to do something like that.
Seriously...you believe this? It sounds like something made up to excuse the trade. The only people I hear claiming Hillis is dumb BTW are Bronco fans looking to explain the unexplainable trade and grasping at straws.

listopencil
11-09-2010, 08:37 PM
Just heard Klis on The Ticket on this topic. He said while the whole thing is indefensible if there is a defense of McD it's that Hillis apparently didn't react well after that fumble last year. He apparently got reprimanded and then went into a shell. He's apparently a "pat on the back guy" and not a guy who reacts well to getting yelled at. Klis then also mentioned what many have discussed here, that it took multiple injuries before Shanahan played him and injuries before Mangini played him. Apparently he just doesn't look good in practice for whatever reason but is the ultimate gamer. Overall an unfortunate situation but at the end of the day McD blew it with his stubbornness.


Wow, I honestly never thought of that but it does make sense. It's fairly obvious that McD has a fairly harsh coaching style. It's almost impossible to tell what is going on in a player's mind from a fan's perspective though. If that's true....just wow. Epic Fail on McD's part.

Popps
11-09-2010, 08:45 PM
Just heard Klis on The Ticket on this topic. He said while the whole thing is indefensible if there is a defense of McD it's that Hillis apparently didn't react well after that fumble last year. He apparently got reprimanded and then went into a shell. He's apparently a "pat on the back guy" and not a guy who reacts well to getting yelled at.

Basically... if you look at the first post of this thread, the scouting report speculates that very thing. It's why I asked the question in the first place. I also got a PM from someone who had a little inside info that had no reason to lie, and told me that WAAAAAAY before any of this drama ever happened. In fact, I got that PM before last season even started, and I was still hopeful for Hillis to be a big part of our plans. This particular person informed me to curtail my hopes... and he turned out to be exactly right.

Apparently he just doesn't look good in practice for whatever reason but is the ultimate gamer.

This was also heavily speculated upon... and if you look at him getting destroyed by that LB in the video above, how can you doubt it? That's embarrassing. Yet, hand him the ball and he looks great!


So, while I agree that this can only be seen as a screw-up at this point, you have to step back and ask the question... if you're a young coach trying to get control of a team, do you just let one guy slack in practice while others are demanded to keep a higher standard?

It's pretty obvious that this had nothing to do with his physical talent. Those who think McDaniels didn't see his talent are way off-base, imo. I think he saw the potential, but saw a guy who wasn't practicing well... and wasn't doing what he was asked when put into games, and landed in the doghouse.

So, McD's hair-trigger backfired on him this time, plain and simple. Still... I can see how this situation would happen, given all of the details on how this played out pre and post-trade.

Archer81
11-09-2010, 09:13 PM
Wow, I honestly never thought of that but it does make sense. It's fairly obvious that McD has a fairly harsh coaching style. It's almost impossible to tell what is going on in a player's mind from a fan's perspective though. If that's true....just wow. Epic Fail on McD's part.


...Seriously?

Peyton is a pat on the back guy and overly sensitive and its McDaniel's failure for yelling at him?

How the **** did he ever make it with Bobby Turner or Mike Shanahan?

:Broncos:

go_broncos
11-09-2010, 09:30 PM
Mcd lovers still think that he did right thing..
Mcd doesn't know **** about running backs..
He traded a 4th round pick for Maroney..
Mcd is a clown.

Archer81
11-09-2010, 09:56 PM
Mcd lovers still think that he did right thing..
Mcd doesn't know **** about running backs..
He traded a 4th round pick for Maroney..
Mcd is a clown.


Explain how keeping Hillis to sit on the bench helps this team.

I wont be shocked when your response consists of poorly framed sentences with horrific grammar and general lack of direction.

:Broncos:

Homer Simpson
11-09-2010, 09:57 PM
Mcd lovers still think that he did right thing..
Mcd doesn't know **** about running backs..
He traded a 4th round pick for Maroney..
Mcd is a clown.

He traded a fourth for Maroney and a sixth.
Under McDaniels Maroney ran for 835 yards and 4.5 yds per carry.
He was injured in 08, but last year ran for 750 yds and 9 tds.

I fully agree that Maroney has looked horrible to this point, but at the time it didn't seem like a bad trade to most people given we had NO running backs.

Popps
11-09-2010, 10:02 PM
Peyton is a pat on the back guy and overly sensitive and its McDaniel's failure for yelling at him?


It is sort of interesting, because I speculated that Plummer might be the same way, to an extent... a guy that responded to the supportive approach from a coach more than the hard-line tactic.

But, I was told Jake must just be a quitter, and that Shanahan did no wrong.


I wonder if that applies in this case?

lostknight
11-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Josh has always had a fundamental problem understanding how to motivate certain type of people. And yes, that is the job of a head coach. Doesn't surprise me in the least that he and Hillis don't get along. He and a aweful lot of people don't get along. But it's a bit akin to shooting off your nose to spite the face. We would have been a better team with Hillis then without.

Archer81
11-09-2010, 10:17 PM
It is sort of interesting, because I speculated that Plummer might be the same way, to an extent... a guy that responded to the supportive approach from a coach more than the hard-line tactic.

But, I was told Jake must just be a quitter, and that Shanahan did no wrong.


I wonder if that applies in this case?


It does logically. But a majority of fans won't care. They dont like the HC, and in any situation that comes about between player and coach they will side with the player.

This Hillis situation blows because he CAN play. He HAS skill. I dont believe him to be stupid, but clearly he was lacking something, somewhere. People forget he had the same RB coach and same OL coach his two years in Denver under two HC's. The running game did not drastically change last year and he still could not see the field as a starter.

In all honesty no one on this board knows what happens day to day in Dove Valley. We all speculate. Would Denver be better off if they kept Hillis? I dont know, and neither does anyone else. Its too easy to see your team struggling now and say, well if we had player X we wouldnt be having these problems...but if we had the 1998 Broncos O Line we would not be having this discussion. We have to go with what we have, and this continued focus on ex players is mystifying to me.

:Broncos:

footstepsfrom#27
11-09-2010, 10:24 PM
Hillis can't practice...Hillis hit on McD's wife...Hillis sulked at getting yelled at...secret insider info, etc...OK, the trouble is all this is mere speculation and has zero source information applied to it.

Until we're given some definitive explanation (which we won'[t be) people are going to rightly believe McDaniels simply screwed the pooch here. It's not like the guy just made the Brownies roster...he's turning into a pro bowl type player straight out of the box.

baja
11-09-2010, 10:27 PM
<b>Josh has always had a fundamental problem understanding how to motivate certain type of people.</b> And yes, that is the job of a head coach. Doesn't surprise me in the least that he and Hillis don't get along. He and a aweful lot of people don't get along. But it's a bit akin to shooting off your nose to spite the face. We would have been a better team with Hillis then without.

Care to explain what knowledge you base that information on?

Homer Simpson
11-09-2010, 10:30 PM
Hillis can't practice...Hillis hit on McD's wife...Hillis sulked at getting yelled at...secret insider info, etc...OK, the trouble is all this is mere speculation and has zero source information applied to it.

Until we're given some definitive explanation (which we won'[t be) people are going to rightly believe McDaniels simply screwed the pooch here. It's not like the guy just made the Brownies roster...he's turning into a pro bowl type player straight out of the box.

And good luck to him.

McDaniels made a huge mistake, especially given hindsight. At the time many were not bothered because it was obvious he wasn't going to get a game (for whatever reason, seems like he should have been given more of a shot of course) and we were desperate for anyone who was not Chris Simms to be backing up Orton (and Brady seemed to have potential).

The fact is, when are grown men going to stop acting like spurned lovers?

strafen
11-09-2010, 11:26 PM
You're one mad dude. Reread that post a tell me you don't look insane. Breathe and take your meds dude, the sun will shine again tomorrow.LOLThat's true.
I've lost it. I wasn'r really mad per-se, I was just irritated by the BS more than anything else...
Sorry. I apologize for that unnecessary rant...

HAT
11-09-2010, 11:44 PM
Explain how keeping Hillis to sit on the bench helps this team.

I wont be shocked when your response consists of poorly framed sentences with horrific grammar and general lack of direction.

:Broncos:

Give no_broncos a break

Somebody needs to pick up the slack.

Mock Haiku baby, four lines at a time!

Buy a clue.

Mcd lovers still think that he did right thing..
Mcd doesn't know **** about running backs..
He traded a 4th round pick for Maroney..
Mcd is a clown.

go_broncos
11-10-2010, 05:54 AM
Give no_broncos a break

Somebody needs to pick up the slack.

Mock Haiku baby, four lines at a time!

Buy a clue.

Well..At least i am not an idiot like our coach..

baja
11-10-2010, 06:12 AM
Well..At least i am not an idiot like our coach..

Well you got that one right.

You're an idiot like no other.

jhat01
11-10-2010, 06:19 AM
well you got that one right.

You're an idiot like no other.

:~ohyah!:

lostknight
11-10-2010, 07:51 AM
Care to explain what knowledge you base that information on?

The large number of rats that have jumped this sinking ship.

Baja, I know that you are a entrenched defender of all things Joshness, but at some point, you have to face reality - Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Hillis, Smith, the Goodmans, Nolan, etc. This is a huge amount of talent that is suddenly lacking in this team, and Josh decided not to work with every single one of them. That's a motivation problem there.

oubronco
11-10-2010, 08:20 AM
Well you got that one right.

You're an idiot like no other.

Hilarious!

go_broncos
11-10-2010, 08:21 AM
The large number of rats that have jumped this sinking ship.

Baja, I know that you are a entrenched defender of all things Joshness, but at some point, you have to face reality - Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Hillis, Smith, the Goodmans, Nolan, etc. This is a huge amount of talent that is suddenly lacking in this team, and Josh decided not to work with every single one of them. That's a motivation problem there.

They won't understand..May be they are watching a different games.
When i listen to his press conferences, he seems to be knowledgeable.
On sundays, i feel like i am watching a different person coaching the team.
He seems to motivate the players when we play AFC East and also tries to copy Bill. He needs to set his own identity and also alter the schemes to fit his person ell.

go_broncos
11-10-2010, 08:24 AM
Well you got that one right.

You're an idiot like no other.

Keep predicting ****ty things like Moreno will run over 1000 yards, Mcd is a great coach and we will win 10 games..
There is no need to tell who the bigger idiot is..

listopencil
11-10-2010, 10:49 AM
...Seriously?

Peyton is a pat on the back guy and overly sensitive and its McDaniel's failure for yelling at him?

How the **** did he ever make it with Bobby Turner or Mike Shanahan?

:Broncos:


There is a way to motivate without tearing someone down, and sometimes different people need different styles of leadership. So...yes. Sometimes McD can be a dick. We've all seen it. As a leader, he needs to know when to be a dick and when not to be a dick. In this case it looks like McD ****ed up.

listopencil
11-10-2010, 10:55 AM
It is sort of interesting, because I speculated that Plummer might be the same way, to an extent... a guy that responded to the supportive approach from a coach more than the hard-line tactic.

But, I was told Jake must just be a quitter, and that Shanahan did no wrong.


I wonder if that applies in this case?

Well, I did just see a quote from Plummer in a recent article. That Shanny was too much of a perfectionist and it put undue pressure on the team. And for the record, when we drafted Cutler instead of D help...man. I was ****ing PISSED.

listopencil
11-10-2010, 10:58 AM
We have to go with what we have, and this continued focus on ex players is mystifying to me.

:Broncos:

It's all good. We really don't need any other thread on the OrangeMane. It's all right here.

Pony Boy
11-10-2010, 02:48 PM
Just a reminder to Vote for Hills for the pro bowl ...........

Homer Simpson
11-10-2010, 03:40 PM
Per LindsayJones tweet...


Tweet of the day! RT @ButteBronco: @PostBroncos OMG, WTF was McDummles thinking trading this guy, bluuh, bluuh, bluuh, I need to get a life.
TweetDeck • 11/10/10 3:17 PM

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
11-10-2010, 05:42 PM
The large number of rats that have jumped this sinking ship .

Wrong ship analogy. The bronco ship will never sink. What this is, is a mutiny. A mutiny againest a captian that has run our great ship a ground. And we're not rats. We're the crew. Like any great ship officiers stir the ship, but the crew makes the ship work. Unfortunaly this captian couldn't lead ants to a picnic.

Popps
11-10-2010, 06:30 PM
Per LindsayJones tweet...


Tweet of the day! RT @ButteBronco: @PostBroncos OMG, WTF was McDummles thinking trading this guy, bluuh, bluuh, bluuh, I need to get a life.
TweetDeck • 11/10/10 3:17 PM

McDummles... nice!

gunns
11-10-2010, 07:00 PM
The same place we would be if we drafted ED REED...


:Broncos:

Yeah with probably a few more wins and possibly playoff wins, including maybe one against Indy.

cmhargrove
11-10-2010, 07:03 PM
90 pages of ****in Peyton Hillis. Wow.

Archer81
11-10-2010, 07:36 PM
Yeah with probably a few more wins and possibly playoff wins, including maybe one against Indy.


Well its the land of fantasy. We get some playoff wins between 2003-2004, Mike does not get fired, we still have the Frown Cannon, Peyton "Cooter" Hillis and Tony "I am the bad guy in Unbreakable" Scheffler and this thread wouldnt exist.

ED REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
11-10-2010, 07:39 PM
90 pages of ****in Peyton Hillis. Wow.

Seriously. I wonder how long it would take to actually read all 90 pages.

frerottenextelway
11-10-2010, 07:48 PM
90 pages of Hillis on the Mane, 90 pages of Hillis.
Read one about the Brown, put on a frown, 89 pages of Hillis left to go.

89 pages of Hillis on the Mane, 89 pages of Hillis.
...

listopencil
11-10-2010, 11:38 PM
If this thread ever does die it really should go to the Hall Of Fame.

broncocalijohn
11-10-2010, 11:55 PM
Just a reminder to Vote for Hills for the pro bowl ...........

Hey TSIGUY, where in the hell is the link?

TomServo
11-13-2010, 04:52 AM
Well its the land of fantasy. We get some playoff wins between 2003-2004, Mike does not get fired, we still have the Frown Cannon, Peyton "Cooter" Hillis and Tony "I am the bad guy in Unbreakable" Scheffler and this thread wouldnt exist.

ED REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!
broncos with McD are so awesome in McD fantasy land. with McD as coach 8-8 is So much more awesome than 8-8 under shan with 7 running backs on IR. god 2-6 is way better. god, passing records Rock.
a RB like Moreno rocks under Mcd. who cares if he cant find the endzone or get 100 like the kiosk guy.
as long as the frown cannon is gone and orton and moreno and moroney and gafney and "how many teams have i been on"? loydd are my team? put up the yards....

Popps
11-13-2010, 09:07 AM
broncos with McD are so awesome in McD fantasy land. with McD as coach 8-8 is So much more awesome than 8-8 under shan with 7 running backs on IR. god 2-6 is way better. god, passing records Rock.
a RB like Moreno rocks under Mcd. who cares if he cant find the endzone or get 100 like the kiosk guy.
as long as the frown cannon is gone and orton and moreno and moroney and gafney and "how many teams have i been on"? loydd are my team? put up the yards....


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go_broncos
11-13-2010, 09:35 AM
Sunday is approaching..Be afraid Mcd lovers..Hillis is going to rush more than 100 yards again.