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Popps
12-03-2009, 12:18 PM
The interesting thing about that unbiased scouting report that you're referencing... I can't find a single reference to either the company, or a similar scouting report from that same company anywhere else on the internet. It's difficult to believe that somebody would just "make it up." But I can't determine the legitimacy of their report to compare against what they've said about anyone else - say perhaps Cutler.

It's difficult to put too much stock in that scouting report when I can't even find the company that is listed on the report anywhere on the Internet. It's like they don't exist. It's really wierd.

I have no idea. It's just on the web. It actually looks like something internal, that was likely meant as recourse for scouts... more than public consumption.

Doesn't mean any of it is true, though like you said... it's pretty detailed, and why make it up?

If it didn't match other things I've heard/read, I'd be more likely to totally dismiss it.


Again, I think he'll see more playing time at some point. But, that's up to him. He's clearly got the physical tools.

vancejohnson82
12-03-2009, 12:22 PM
I have no idea. It's just on the web. It actually looks like something internal, that was likely meant as recourse for scouts... more than public consumption.

Doesn't mean any of it is true, though like you said... it's pretty detailed, and why make it up?

If it didn't match other things I've heard/read, I'd be more likely to totally dismiss it.


Again, I think he'll see more playing time at some point. But, that's up to him. He's clearly got the physical tools.

I think we all know that this is part of the McDaniels conspiracy....he sat in his office late one night and typed the whole thing up so he would have an excuse when the late night pitchfork crew (led by Rasta) came banging on his door

its very plain to see

Taco John
12-03-2009, 12:24 PM
I have no idea. It's just on the web. It actually looks like something internal, that was likely meant as recourse for scouts... more than public consumption.

Doesn't mean any of it is true, though like you said... it's pretty detailed, and why make it up?

If it didn't match other things I've heard/read, I'd be more likely to totally dismiss it.


Again, I think he'll see more playing time at some point. But, that's up to him. He's clearly got the physical tools.



I did manage to find a report for Earl Bennett and Jermichael Finley. But that's it. I was hoping to see what they might have said on Cutler. That would be interesting.

Taco John
12-03-2009, 12:25 PM
For those interested here is what Google found for the search term "HRT Report wonderlic" (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_en&q=HRT+Report+Wonderlic)

BigPlayShay
12-03-2009, 12:31 PM
For those interested here is what Google found for the search term "HRT Report wonderlic" (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_en&q=HRT+Report+Wonderlic)

Here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGLL_en&q=site:www.hrd-rtp.com+HRT+Report+Wonderlic&start=10&sa=N)is a more refined search limited to just the site www.hrd-rtp.com

Much more results with that query. Ironically, here is a report on Cory "Cooked Crack" Boyd (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/2008%20Draft%20Profiles/Boyd%20,%20Cory%20-%20OH.doc) which rates him above average at an 8

Taco John
12-03-2009, 12:44 PM
Here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGLL_en&q=site:www.hrd-rtp.com+HRT+Report+Wonderlic&start=10&sa=N)is a more refined search limited to just the site www.hrd-rtp.com

Much more results with that query. Ironically, here is a report on Cory "Cooked Crack" Boyd (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/2008%20Draft%20Profiles/Boyd%20,%20Cory%20-%20OH.doc) which rates him above average at an 8


Great sleuthing!

Hmmm... Unless I'm mistaken, they've only got players from the 2008 season.

Unfortunately, they didn't have anything for Clady...

But here is Eddie Royal (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Final/Word%20Files/Royal%20%20%20Eddie%20-%20WR_TKxLWxB.doc)

Here is Kory Litchstenstieger (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Giants/WordDocs/Lichtensteiger,%20Kory%20-%20OC%20(G%20-%20TBE).doc)

Here is Jack Williams (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/2008%20Draft%20Profiles/Williams%20,%20Jack%20-%20DC.doc)

Here is Ryan Torain (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/2008%20Draft%20Profiles/Torain%20,%20Ryan%20-%20OH.doc)

Here is Carlton Powell (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/2008%20Draft%20Profiles/Powell%20,%20Carlton%20-%20DT.doc)

Here is Spencer Larsen (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Giants/WordDocs/Larsen,%20Spencer%20-%20LBG%20-%20TBE).doc)

Here is Josh Barrett (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Giants/WordDocs/Barrett,%20Josh%20-%20SSG%20-%20TBE).doc)

...and of course Peyton Hillis (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Final/Word%20Files/Hillis%20%20%20Peyton%20-%20FB_LFTXMSxLW.doc)


What a find!

Taco John
12-03-2009, 12:46 PM
Wow! They rate Eddie Royal as a 2 in mental quickness!


This find deserves its own thread.

Great teamwork Shay!

Beantown Bronco
12-03-2009, 12:47 PM
Wow! They rate Eddie Royal as a 2 in mental quickness!

Not surprising. I think that's a default ranking for Hokies.


Paging Garcia.

broncolife
12-03-2009, 01:25 PM
Hilarious! I cant believe this thread is still going. I wonder what the longest Moreno thread is?

broncolife
12-03-2009, 01:43 PM
If Hillis gets caught cheating on his girl = 10 more pages on thread
If Hiilis doesnt play = +20 pages
If Hillis shouts give me the Mother ******* football = +30 pages
If Hillis does good or bad next week = +40 pages on thread
If Lamont Jordan rushes for 300 yards = end thread. Im pretty sure most of us will be going Mother F****** Jordan? :kiddingme

listopencil
12-03-2009, 02:55 PM
Sure has been a long time since somebody posted in this thread...

Popps
12-03-2009, 03:06 PM
If Hillis gets caught cheating on his girl = 10 more pages on thread
If Hiilis doesnt play = +20 pages
If Hillis shouts give me the Mother ******* football = +30 pages
If Hillis does good or bad next week = +40 pages on thread
If Lamont Jordan rushes for 300 yards = end thread. Im pretty sure most of us will be going Mother ******* Jordan? :kiddingme

Even better, wait until Hillis busts off a few nice carries. You'll see a brigade of people in here for the "I told you so" posts... as if anyone is saying the dude doesn't have talent.

Taco John
12-03-2009, 03:13 PM
How great would that be if Hillis was given an opportunity to bust off a few carries?

Popps
12-03-2009, 03:28 PM
How great would that be if Hillis was given an opportunity to bust off a few carries?

No one would be happier than me. I loved his running style.

I'm guessing he has to earn those opps, though.

barryr
12-03-2009, 03:31 PM
Hillis sure has a big fan following. One would think this is a 2,000 yard a season guy with this love. I'm wondering if he'll even be in the NFL a few years from now.

Bronco Yoda
12-03-2009, 03:35 PM
Well, I'm not sure why Jordan has come up so much in conversation.

How many carries has he had? My cooked crack reference was at least partially a joke. Are you honestly implying that Jordan has been an intricate part of our offense?



20 carries for 59 yrds. 3.0 avg.

That's 20 carries Hillis should have had right there.

rastaman
12-03-2009, 04:41 PM
Hillis sure has a big fan following. One would think this is a 2,000 yard a season guy with this love. I'm wondering if he'll even be in the NFL a few years from now.

Patients Barry.....you might just enjoy watching Hillis showcase his skills in another NFL city with another NFL team. Then you'll be WONDERING why Hillis isn't playing for the Broncos.

Imagine the disappointment and stress.;D

Bronco Yoda
12-03-2009, 06:27 PM
Here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGLL_en&q=site:www.hrd-rtp.com+HRT+Report+Wonderlic&start=10&sa=N)is a more refined search limited to just the site www.hrd-rtp.com

Much more results with that query. Ironically, here is a report on Cory "Cooked Crack" Boyd (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/2008%20Draft%20Profiles/Boyd%20,%20Cory%20-%20OH.doc) which rates him above average at an 8

good stuff. rep!

Bronco Yoda
12-03-2009, 06:28 PM
Great sleuthing!

Hmmm... Unless I'm mistaken, they've only got players from the 2008 season.

Unfortunately, they didn't have anything for Clady...

But here is Eddie Royal (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Final/Word%20Files/Royal%20%20%20Eddie%20-%20WR_TKxLWxB.doc)

Here is Kory Litchstenstieger (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Giants/WordDocs/Lichtensteiger,%20Kory%20-%20OC%20(G%20-%20TBE).doc)

Here is Jack Williams (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/2008%20Draft%20Profiles/Williams%20,%20Jack%20-%20DC.doc)

Here is Ryan Torain (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/2008%20Draft%20Profiles/Torain%20,%20Ryan%20-%20OH.doc)

Here is Carlton Powell (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/2008%20Draft%20Profiles/Powell%20,%20Carlton%20-%20DT.doc)

Here is Spencer Larsen (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Giants/WordDocs/Larsen,%20Spencer%20-%20LBG%20-%20TBE).doc)

Here is Josh Barrett (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Giants/WordDocs/Barrett,%20Josh%20-%20SSG%20-%20TBE).doc)

...and of course Peyton Hillis (http://www.hrd-rtp.com/hrtnfl/Final/Word%20Files/Hillis%20%20%20Peyton%20-%20FB_LFTXMSxLW.doc)


What a find!

Thanks TJ

Bronco Yoda
12-03-2009, 06:36 PM
Leatherheads says Giants at the bottom and it reads the same as Hillis's.

errand
12-04-2009, 07:00 PM
Remember.....special team players are a dime a dozen. I'm sure all you Hillis doubters wouldn't mind a lowly drafted 7th round FB playing in another NFL city in 2010!!!:sunshine:

I recall several posters on here during the off season saying this team was one of the NFL's worst. so I have to ask you....

If Hilis cannot play on this team, where the hell else can he play?

errand
12-04-2009, 07:06 PM
I don't think anyone's making the assertion that white = stupid. I don't think anyone's even implying that he can't be any good because he's white.

I do, however, think there might be something to the idea that, since he's a white player at a position with so little white representation, it's that much harder for some Broncos fans to let him go. I think it adds to the image of a "tough-nosed, blue collar" player that reminds them of the good old days of Larry Czonka (of Czonk-a-strator fame) and John Riggins.

.

People, including his critics like myself and Popps like hillis personally...not because he's white, but because he's what alot of us consider a classic overachiever...much like Sammy Winder, Jack Dolbin, Tyrone Braxton, Kyle Orton, Karl Mecklenburg, Rod Smith, Eddie Mac, Spencer Larsen...etc.

cutthemdown
12-04-2009, 07:12 PM
Wait a second here, are you saying Hillis has that many fumbles in 2009? And were these fumbles all with the first team offense as a RB or did these fumbles occur on special teams?

I think in he end if Hillis is satisfied with his role on special teams and likes how McDaniel's is using him then all is fine.

However, if Hillis does not like being used as a jack of all trades utility/special teams and believes he should a featured role with the first team offense, then at the end of the season Hillis should go to McD and ask for his out right release.

Hillis would be foolish to go into the 2010 believing McD would give him ample opportunity to play on Sundays and have a featured role with the first team offense. Why put up with the mind games McD is hard-wired to throw at you.
By the way how much trade value could McD demand for Hillis at this stage. With Hillis not getting ample opportunity to show case his talents on Sunday his trade value is zilich so why not give Hillis his relase if he ask for it.

Its not like Hillis is gettng any younger and risk career ending injury playing special teams any way. Why not risk injury playing with the first team offense with an NFL team that would allow Peyton to fairly compete and give him opportunities to contribute with the first team offense.

Simply put.....McD's system does not fit the tangibles Peyton Hillis brings to the table and its time to move on.

When his contract is up, or Broncos let him go, then he can move on. There is, however, no rule about letting players go because they would like a chance to start somewhere else. Every player wants a chance to start and feels his talents are being wasted on special teams. You want all of them to feel that way not just hillis.

You think Bruton and Mcbath dont want to play? Of course they want to play but do you let them walk next yr if you decide to keep Dawkins and Hill starting again? Hell no you don't.

You don't just cut every depth player who may have starting ability because they want a better chance somewhere else.

Not sure what environment you work in, or come from, but you have some strange ideas and loyalties.

errand
12-04-2009, 07:13 PM
That last post by dragster was pretty great. Fun to see Popps blowing whichever way the wind is blowing. I can't wait to see how he does the fun house mirror act on his own stuff.

This place is great.

Actually TJ...he isn't. Popps stance as I've read and understand it to be is this :

He likes Hillis personally, and thinks he can play in the NFL.....but, he's believes that there is a legitmate reason why neither Mike nor Josh has seen this all-world player that you clowns see.

He even said in one of those posts that dragster brought up...he said maybe there's something they (Shanahan, and McDaniels) noticed that we fans do not....

cutthemdown
12-04-2009, 07:14 PM
I also like Hillis but I just don't feel he is a huge playmaker who needs the ball. IMO Moreno is the one who needs to learn and learn fast. The more carries he gets under his belt heading into what could be playoffs, or even next yr the better.

Moreno should start next offseason healthy, with a contract, with a lot of knowledge he didn't have as a rookie. Hopefully he blossoms into a 300 carry a yr back for us.

cutthemdown
12-04-2009, 07:16 PM
And also I'm not saying Jordan better, I am only arguing he is on roster for other reasons.

They kept hillis because hes young, big, physical, can play special teams, FB, and maybe be a short yrdage runner.

They kept Jordan because he is experienced, knew the system, doesn't fumble, and can be used as a runner in an emergency, in games with leads etc.

I think they had way different roles to begin with and its a poor comparison.

errand
12-04-2009, 07:22 PM
You, nor no one else on this board has any idea how many mental mistakes Hillis could be making on Special Teams, and more importantly in practice and meeting rooms. So, if you want to blame McDaniels for his lack of playing time, you may as well throw Bobby T and Mike Priefer on the blame train as well.

Exactly....I love how alot of posters on here write that they see this or that, when they have no access to game film, yet want to talk like they can break it all down.

You dumbasses cannot see the entire field from your nosebleed seats, nor from the comfort of your couch/bar stool....and since the majority of you morons drink beer, etc...I'm figuring your half drunk most of the time anyways to objectively see a damn thing, let alone everything. Face it...you, like every other NFL fan follow the ball.

So please don't tell me you know player X is doing this or that when the bottom line is if he doesn't have the ball in his hands or a pass isn't coming his way, or he doesn't make a highlight reel tackle/block...you will rarely see it.

The bottom line is this Hillis isn't starting for a reason....and nobody other than those who do actually have access to practice and game film knows the reason why.

baja
12-04-2009, 07:30 PM
I don't get all the Moreno bitching,I think he is doing just fine and is right on schedule.

Popps
12-04-2009, 09:50 PM
I don't get all the Moreno b****ing,I think he is doing just fine and is right on schedule.

The Widows have divided our team into new admin and old admin players. Any old admin players are revered and new admin players are unduly criticized and bashed.

Moreno is 13th in rushing in the NFL as a rookie, leads all rookies... and is splitting carries. He's averaged 8 and 5 yards a carry the last two games. Every time he's seen enough carries, he's had a great game.

He's fumbled (in actuality) 3 times, and once was Ed Reed blasting him into next week. That's 3 too many, but hardly firm evidence of a lasting trend.

Take a look at the people bashing him. They're the usual suspects.

Taco John
12-04-2009, 10:06 PM
Moreno has four fumbles and lost all four of them, which is more than he's scored touchdowns. This is fair criticism, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

It's true that his last two weeks have been his most productive.

watermock
12-04-2009, 10:10 PM
It was awfully kind to wait 10 weeks for him to show up.

How long do we wait for Smith to field a punt?

Or Ayers to have more than 2 tackles? He DOES play OLB.

Archer81
12-04-2009, 10:17 PM
It was awfully kind to wait 10 weeks for him to show up.

How long do we wait for Smith to field a punt?

Or Ayers to have more than 2 tackles? He DOES play OLB.


He did vs the Giants.

Lets be hard on a rookie runningback, by God if he doesnt have 1500 rushing yards and 20 scores by week 10 he MUST be a bust...

You know how often Ayres is just a second behind Dumervil when Doom gets the sack?

If the coaching staff trusts Moreno, Ayres and Smith to be on the field, why dont you give them the benefit of the doubt?

:Broncos:

cutthemdown
12-04-2009, 10:29 PM
Moreno has four fumbles and lost all four of them, which is more than he's scored touchdowns. This is fair criticism, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

It's true that his last two weeks have been his most productive.

Those fumbles were frustrating because he seemed to be concentrating on keeping 2 hands on the ball. He seems to really be thinking ball control first and foremost. I never got the impression he was being careless with it.

Did you Taco? Like did you watch thinking he swings ball back to far, holds it away from body, doesn't cover up going into contact?

I sure didn't see those things.

For sure though 2-3 fumbles lost a yr is about all that can be tolerated. He really needs to not lose anymore. Peterson in Minny IMO has a bigger problem because he does swing ball around too much.

Moreno though I think trying really hard to be a fundementally sound player.

I like how he get under the pads of blitzers, covers up in contact. I just think he needs more experience and he could be an above avg starting NFL RB.

I don't think though he will ever be top 3, but maybe top 5, top 10 etc.

Popps
12-04-2009, 10:31 PM
Moreno has four fumbles and lost all four of them, which is more than he's scored touchdowns.

Incorrect.

He has 4 TDs.

I realize your hatred for the kid has you blinded, but try to at least do some basic homework before pooping out your posts.


It's true that his last two weeks have been his most productive.

Also incorrect.

He's had games with the same or better production. His game against New England was probably his best all season.


Anyway, resume trashing him...

Popps
12-04-2009, 10:32 PM
Those fumbles were frustrating because he seemed to be concentrating on keeping 2 hands on the ball. He seems to really be thinking ball control first and foremost. I never got the impression he was being careless with it.

Did you Taco? Like did you watch thinking he swings ball back to far, holds it away from body, doesn't cover up going into contact?

Taco has no interest in actually dissecting those four fumbles, in particular... the fact that one of them likely wasn't a fumble at all.

His agenda has Moreno as having a case of "fumbleitus," and he's going to continue to work that campaign... regardless of the circumstances surrounding them.

watermock
12-04-2009, 10:33 PM
Get real.

Moreno was injured, I hope at least. He doesn't have half that.

A second can make all the difference.

I thought Ayers was second string? Is he on the field or not? The stats say no.

Smith? I dunno. Can't judge what isn't on the field. Evidently Ty Law is better.

watermock
12-04-2009, 10:40 PM
2002 Denver Broncos 16 12 273 1,508 5.5 59 15 33 364 11.0 66T 2 5 3
TOTAL 2,176 9,696 4.5 78 73 242 1,963 8.1 74 5 26 19

Guess who?

Thats pretty good for a second round pick. I think our line and wr's are are at least the equal of 2002.

Archer81
12-04-2009, 10:45 PM
Get real.

Moreno was injured, I hope at least. He doesn't have half that.

A second can make all the difference.

I thought Ayers was second string? Is he on the field or not? The stats say no.

Smith? I dunno. Can't judge what isn't on the field. Evidently Ty Law is better.


Our secondary is ranked 5th in the NFL. They have only allowed 3 pass plays of over 25 yards. Outside of some time missed for Dawkins (a position smith wouldnt sub in for anyway) the secondary has managed to be injury free. And you are complaining because a rookie CB is not on the field?

:Broncos:

strafen
12-04-2009, 10:50 PM
The Widows have divided our team into new admin and old admin players. Any old admin players are revered and new admin players are unduly criticized and bashed.

Moreno is 13th in rushing in the NFL as a rookie, leads all rookies... and is splitting carries. He's averaged 8 and 5 yards a carry the last two games. Every time he's seen enough carries, he's had a great game.

He's fumbled (in actuality) 3 times, and once was Ed Reed blasting him into next week. That's 3 too many, but hardly firm evidence of a lasting trend.

Take a look at the people bashing him. They're the usual suspects.Last time I checked, Moreno has 4 fumbles.
You sound llike the Bears fans when they say 19 of Cutlers 20 Int's weren't his fault, therefore in actuality he only has one INT :rofl:

Nice stats, but what kind of impact has he really had in our team success thus far?
Just saying...

watermock
12-04-2009, 10:57 PM
Our secondary is ranked 5th in the NFL. They have only allowed 3 pass plays of over 25 yards. Outside of some time missed for Dawkins (a position smith wouldnt sub in for anyway) the secondary has managed to be injury free. And you are complaining because a rookie CB is not on the field?

:Broncos:

No, he's no just a rookie, he's a first rounder, or so we are told.

I've only seen him on returns, or muffs.

I can pull his stats up for ya.

Hell, we could go 12-4, beat 2 really bad teams and catch indy asleep.

It doesn't make our draft better.

Archer81
12-04-2009, 11:07 PM
No, he's no just a rookie, he's a first rounder, or so we are told.

I've only seen him on returns, or muffs.

I can pull his stats up for ya.

Hell, we could go 12-4, beat 2 really bad teams and catch indy asleep.

It doesn't make our draft better.


Yup. Because a 2nd round draft pick is going to get playing time ahead of Bailey, Goodman or Law? Have you noticed the secondary has the most experience out of any unit in the NFL? Thats not a mistake, and even before Law was signed, Smith was playing behind JMFW. Its not because "he sucks" or "we had a bad draft" (which you cant declare less then a year after the draft happened), it was intentional. A new defense being installed requires an experienced secondary, and to this point, they have played brilliantly. If Smith is playing, its because two out of the troika of Bailey, Goodman or Law is out.

:Broncos:

Popps
12-04-2009, 11:22 PM
Last time I checked, Moreno has 4 fumbles.
You sound llike the Bears fans when they say 19 of Cutlers 20 Int's weren't his fault, therefore in actuality he only has one INT :rofl:.

By the end of the season, Cutler may account for 40 turnovers, BY HIMSELF.

Moreno has 3 legitimate fumbles.

He had a TD taken away from him on a horrible ruling.

4 fumbles on the season isn't remotely like Cutler leading the league in red-zone INTs.

So, the two aren't comparable. If Cutler had 10 INTs on the season, and we were discussing a few of them being questionable, perhaps it would be. This isn't even close.


Nice stats, but what kind of impact has he really had in our team success thus far?
Just saying...

You're "just sayin'," because you're hoping the kid won't have success.

Fact is, he has. He's beaten out Hillis, soundly. Then again, so have all of our RBs.

If you pay any attention to our games outside of waiting for Hillis to get carries, you'd notice that in our wins... Moreno has been a CRUCIAL element for us. His style moves the chains, keeps drives alive and forces teams to respect the run.

He's averaging well over 4 yards a carry with only a couple of long runs. (And a couple called back on penalties.)

So, he's absolutely been a part of our success... and that's why McDaniels has made him a starter and is attempting to give him more carries when game situations allow it.

Popps
12-04-2009, 11:25 PM
Oh, and Moreno just racked up his 3rd rookie of the week award.

http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=rookies

A nice push towards the end of the season, and he could easily be in the mix for rookie of the year.

But, you Widows just keep trashing him.



Go Broncos, right guys?

bowtown
12-04-2009, 11:27 PM
It was awfully kind to wait 10 weeks for him to show up.

How long do we wait for Smith to field a punt?

Or Ayers to have more than 2 tackles? He DOES play OLB.

Up to 2 more years, before you can officially climb back on your horse and call them busts. Secretly I kind of hope it kicks you in the head before that.

watermock
12-04-2009, 11:28 PM
So Smith was playing behind JMFW, AND Law.

Is that right?

watermock
12-04-2009, 11:32 PM
Last time I checked, NO picked up McCallister and McKnight? for injured players? And they frustrated TB?

Must the Mc in 'em. Ha!

bowtown
12-04-2009, 11:36 PM
Last time I checked, NO picked up McCallister and McKnight? for injured players? And they frustrated TB?

Must the Mc in 'em. Ha!

Good point?

Popps
12-04-2009, 11:40 PM
Good point?

:rofl:

houghtam
12-04-2009, 11:41 PM
No, he's no just a rookie, he's a first rounder, or so we are told.

I've only seen him on returns, or muffs.

I can pull his stats up for ya.

Hell, we could go 12-4, beat 2 really bad teams and catch indy asleep.

It doesn't make our draft better.

Good God, I guess nowadays you don't have to even watch a Broncos game to be a fan, you just have to be able to sh*t out stats.

I can say I've seen every Broncos game and rewatched them. Ayers has been there, and so has Smith. Stop living vicariously through your cats, you no-account hack.

watermock
12-04-2009, 11:46 PM
You can watch them 10 times. It doesn't change anything.

cutthemdown
12-04-2009, 11:50 PM
Ayers and Smith at least made the field. Ayers has a lot to learn having to play OLB and corner is a tough position to play as a rookie. I think they could still be good player. Look at Royal. If Royal was having this season, last season, we wouldn't have been quite as high on him as a WR.

houghtam
12-04-2009, 11:58 PM
You can watch them 10 times. It doesn't change anything.

Let's read more than the first two words of a post next time. Ayers and Smith have been participating (and fairly well for rookies), they don't have the stats yet.

Why aren't you calling for Royal's head?

watermock
12-04-2009, 11:59 PM
Fair enough, but considering we had a bounty of high picks, just sayin'.

watermock
12-05-2009, 12:03 AM
Let's read more than the first two words of a post next time. Ayers and Smith have been participating (and fairly well for rookies), they don't have the stats yet.

Why aren't you calling for Royal's head?

Becase he was drafted primarily as a return man and a project at WR.

The fact he has gone thru a sophmore slump has more to do with our QB and the gameplan. He's still solid.

cutthemdown
12-05-2009, 12:12 AM
Becase he was drafted primarily as a return man and a project at WR.

The fact he has gone thru a sophmore slump has more to do with our QB and the gameplan. He's still solid.

Yeah but you must also agree with the notion any of these young players could blossom in 2nd or 3rd yr.

Ayers and Smith have shown some flashes, I think they could still end up solid nfl players.

houghtam
12-05-2009, 12:23 AM
Yeah but you must also agree with the notion any of these young players could blossom in 2nd or 3rd yr.

Ayers and Smith have shown some flashes, I think they could still end up solid nfl players.

Mock wouldn't know, he hasn't watched any of the games, just seen the highlights and stats.

Kaylore
12-05-2009, 07:41 AM
Mock wouldn't know, he hasn't watched any of the games, just seen the highlights and stats.

And like Lex, rastaman, and steeldude, he made his mind up in March and won't change it.

TonyR
12-05-2009, 08:46 AM
Adrian Peterson has 6 fumbles. I expect Minnesota to cut him any day now. Then the Broncos can cut Moreno since he's a bust and pick up Peterson. Problem solved. Everybody's happy. lex and Mock and rasta can start figuring out ways to criticize Peterson, and the team, and go on with their miserable existence.

DBroncos4life
12-05-2009, 08:53 AM
Adrian Peterson has 6 fumbles. I expect Minnesota to cut him any day now. Then the Broncos can cut Moreno since he's a bust and pick up Peterson. Problem solved. Everybody's happy. lex and Mock and rasta can start figuring out ways to criticize Peterson, and the team, and go on with their miserable existence.

Don't you think Peterson brings a little more to the table then Moreno? I'm not saying Moreno sucks or is a bust but lets be real here if he was scoring on huge runs like Peterson then people would gladly over look the fumbling.

strafen
12-05-2009, 11:24 AM
Incorrect.

He has 4 TDs.

I realize your hatred for the kid has you blinded, but try to at least do some basic homework before pooping out your posts.



Also incorrect.

He's had games with the same or better production. His game against New England was probably his best all season.


Anyway, resume trashing him...You start this thread to spread you "unsubstantiatied" rumors about Hillis that the guy is basically a retard.
You have been saying this in just about every thread that involves Hillis.
Yet that to you is not bashing.
Then you call people out by saying:
I realize your hatred for the kid has you blinded, but try to at least do some basic homework before pooping out your posts
Would it then be fair to say your love for Moreno has you blinded?
You don't dispute facts, you don't try to defend the indefendible, like disputing Moreno's 4 fumbles.

Now we're haters because somebody tells you that is not 3 by 4 the number of fumbles Moreno has, and you get all butt-hurt about it!.
Now you start to look like a (fill in the blank) for saying stuff like that.
Come on man.
Moreno only has had in my mind one good game. His last game as a matter of fact.
When he had that shoving match with Marshall during the SD game, that was Moreno's wake up call. He needed to step it up, and Marshall let him know.

Amazing that after Marshall got on his case, the guy goes a plays his best game of his career the next week.
Believe what you see my friend.
Nobody here is amazed by Moreno's performance by any stretch of the imagination.
That's why you hear excuses such as wait until next year, one more year in the system and he will be a beast, yadah, yadah, yadah...

Top draft picks don't always ensure success. Moreno has been leaning more towards being a bust than being anything special so far...

I'll be happy if I'm wrong. But I'm concerned so far with what I've seen...

Popps
12-05-2009, 11:36 AM
You start this thread to spread you "unsubstantiatied" rumors about Hillis that the guy is basically a retard.
You have been saying this in just about every thread that involves Hillis.
Yet that to you is not bashing..

I posted an unbiased, 3rd party report that gave perhaps gave insight to a situation on a player I think is very talented, yet can't see the field.



I'm sorry you weren't able to cope with it. Perhaps take up your fight with the rest of the world, as you seem to be the only one who is so broken up over this.

errand
12-05-2009, 01:49 PM
It's fourth and one on the goal line, and the next play determines whether we advance to the playoffs, or stay home for another season. Moreno and Buckhalter are out with injuries.

Do you:

A. Give the ball to Lamont Jordan.

B. Give the ball to Peyton Hillis.


I'm curious what this so-called "logical-thinking" world would do.

Call me crazy, but I think this scenario is a 10 out of 10 time no-brainer.

Not sure that's it's the no brainer you consider it TJ...

Peyton Hillis in his career in the 4th qtr has the following numbers -

20 att 88 yds 4.4 avg. 1 TD's 7 1st downs (35% conversion rate)

and in the 4th qtr within 7 of opponent he's put up

9 att. 37 yards 4.1 avg. 0 TD's 3 1st downs (33%)

He's not had an OT carry to date.


For his CAREER, Lamont Jordan has put up the follwing numbers in the 4th quarter...

315 att. 1434 yds 4.6 avg. 8 TD's 78 1st downs (25% conversion rate)

and in the 4th qtr. within 7 points of opponent....

174 att. 773yds 4.4avg. 3TD's 441st downs (25%)

and in OT -

12att. 86yds 7.2avg. 0 TD's 31st downs (25%)

Both have shown statistically the ability to get the job done...one does convert at a higher rate, but then again the other gets almost half a yard more per carry when the game is 4th qtr within 7 points...and he also excels in OT where mistakes are amplified. In fairness to the other, he's not had an OT carry....so that doesn't mean he can't do it, it just means we don't have any statistical proof he can.

If I'm the head coach, I'm going with veteran leadership and experience if my season is on the line...but that's a personal opinion of only one guy. I think it's fair to say that both players could be trusted to get the job done....

errand
12-05-2009, 01:58 PM
So who are the folks here who are claiming that Shanahan and McDaniels are in a CONSPIRACY?

...those who believe that the reason Hillis isn't seeing the playing field has nothing to do with his performance and all to do with McDaniels being an asshole who sees the all-world talent of one Peyton hillis, and just chooses to ignore it and plays less talented players

Popps
12-05-2009, 01:59 PM
Not sure that's it's the no brainer you consider it TJ...

Peyton Hillis in his career in the 4th qtr has the following numbers -

20 att 88 yds 4.4 avg. 1 TD's 7 1st downs (35% conversion rate)

and in the 4th qtr within 7 of opponent he's put up

9 att. 37 yards 4.1 avg. 0 TD's 3 1st downs (33%)

He's not had an OT carry to date.


For his CAREER, Lamont Jordan has put up the follwing numbers in the 4th quarter...

315 att. 1434 yds 4.6 avg. 8 TD's 78 1st downs (25% conversion rate)

and in the 4th qtr. within 7 points of opponent....

174 att. 773yds 4.4avg. 3TD's 441st downs (25%)

and in OT -

12att. 86yds 7.2avg. 0 TD's 31st downs (25%)

Both have shown statistically the ability to get the job done...one does convert at a higher rate, but then again the other gets almost half a yard more per carry when the game is 4th qtr within 7 points...and he also excels in OT where mistakes are amplified. In fairness to the other, he's not had an OT carry....so that doesn't mean he can't do it, it just means we don't have any statistical proof he can.

If I'm the head coach, I'm going with veteran leadership and experience if my season is on the line...but that's a personal opinion of only one guy. I think it's fair to say that both players could be trusted to get the job done....


Taco tends to disappear after posts like this. (Ones that statistically destroy his imaginary arguments.)

The bottom line is, Jordan apparently knows how to execute his assignments and Hillis does not. If Hillis was capable of performing better than what we have out there, he'd be on the field.

Love McDaniels or hate him, he's done nothing but demonstrate that he plays the best player, regardless of circumstance. He's benched his own draft picks, started Shanahan players and shown absolutely no bias other than starting the most productive player.

So, again... if Hillis is on the bench, there's a reason.

errand
12-05-2009, 02:00 PM
I tried explaining this before, here it goes again. Jordan has only like 3-4 fumbles his whole career. He really just doesn't fumble. I think his role on the team was a guy who would be a bkup and not fumble if the depth got so bad he had to play a lot.

Hillis we have seen is not that good holding onto to the ball. He has what 2-3 fumbles already. Thats a career for Jordan.

Jordan for his career has 9 fumbles...losing 4 of them. He's been in the league for 9 seasons.

errand
12-05-2009, 02:05 PM
I think Hillis only had 1 fumble. Then again, that was on 4 carries. (Odd, because the same crowd seems to be trashing Moreno for 4 fumbles, one which wasn't.)

Yea, if you're a guy who's (allegedly) not cutting it in practice... and then you come into a game and drop a ball on 4 carries, and miss some special teams assignments, a guy like McDaniels might not take kindly to that.

Wow...imagine that, playing in the NFL is performance-based. I thought coaches would just hug a player who fumbled 25% of his carries and give him even more opportunities to do so.

errand
12-05-2009, 02:09 PM
High school is enough.

If you played, you're telling me you never saw a case of a guy who was more talented than his results on the field, or never even saw the field enough due to external circumstances?

.


http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=28146672

errand
12-05-2009, 02:14 PM
I've seen it the other way around too. I've seen the guy who sucks at practice, but dominates when the game is live. Whatever the reason that Josh can't find to dress Hillis, it's my opinion that it's not good enough - especially when we we're on a four game skid and couldn't muster a running game to give our defense or our wounded quarterback cover.

I don't know why Josh can't find a way to get Hillis on the field. I just know that he should figure it out because Hillis is far, far too talented to leave in street clothes on the sidelines. I understand that you're not going to be the least bit critical of Josh, and good for you. But I can't help myself when I see a talent like Hillis going to absolute waste when I know what he's capable of.

I like Josh, but this whole Hillis ordeal makes me question his judgement when Lamont Jordan is being given more opportunities than the beast who almost single handedly carried this team to the post-season on his back last year. It's hard for me to remember the last time I saw a player make that kind of single-handed impact.

I personally think Josh should be embarassed that he can't find a way to get this guy on the field. But maybe I'm just being stupid. I can live with that.

OK, now explain to me how a guy who sucks at practice dominates during the game? How the hell would he even see the field if he sucks at practice? Sure there's a difference between 40 yard dash and game speed...for instance Jerry Rice ran a 4.6 40 yard dash in combine, however he was rarely caught from behind on gameday. But he'd never would have seen the field if he sucked at practice.....

As for you living with being stupid...you really have no choice.

errand
12-05-2009, 02:19 PM
I have no idea. It's just on the web. It actually looks like something internal, that was likely meant as recourse for scouts... more than public consumption.

Doesn't mean any of it is true, though like you said... it's pretty detailed, and why make it up?



....it has to be made up Popps, because McDaniels just has it in for Hillis. LOL

Popps
12-05-2009, 02:20 PM
As I said before, I expect that Hillis will contribute more at some point this season. I believe McDaniels will help him work through his problems, but it's really on Hills to do so.

When he does, I'll be the first one rooting him on. I love the guy's ability.

Until then, he's a back-up, and a non-story.

errand
12-05-2009, 02:23 PM
Hilarious! I cant believe this thread is still going. I wonder what the longest Moreno thread is?

I know right? doesn't matter..his career longest run is almost twice as long as Hillis'

errand
12-05-2009, 02:25 PM
How great would that be if Hillis was given an opportunity to bust off a few carries?

...i dunno, maybe almost as great if he actually earned the opportunity to do so.

errand
12-05-2009, 02:28 PM
Patients Barry.....you might just enjoy watching Hillis showcase his skills in another NFL city with another NFL team. Then you'll be WONDERING why Hillis isn't playing for the Broncos.

Imagine the disappointment and stress.;D

Really...so what team do you think he'd actually start for, and showcase his all-world talents (that somehow elude McDaniels) if he were released and signed today?

GreatBronco16
12-05-2009, 02:35 PM
Really...so what team do you think he'd actually start for, and showcase his all-world talents (that somehow elude McDaniels) if he were released and signed today?

There is a long list of teams. I'll list them in order.














There they all are.

cutthemdown
12-05-2009, 03:03 PM
Jordan for his career has 9 fumbles...losing 4 of them. He's been in the league for 9 seasons.

i dont count ones that dont get lost. 3-4 lost fumbles for a career is amazing really. 9 times in 9 season he dropped the ball. That also is amazing really when you think about. Especially since he always has been a contact type runner.

slyinky
12-05-2009, 03:30 PM
As I said before, I expect that Hillis will contribute more at some point this season. I believe McDaniels will help him work through his problems, but it's really on Hills to do so.

When he does, I'll be the first one rooting him on. I love the guy's ability.

Until then, he's a back-up, and a non-story.

So you start a thread about him and post about 80 times in it?

Popps
12-05-2009, 03:54 PM
So you start a thread about him and post about 80 times in it?

Sure, it's a message board. Debates happen among Broncos fans and pseudo-fans.

But, to the rest of the NFL world, it's a non-story, sure.

Bronco Yoda
12-05-2009, 03:55 PM
IMO, you're playing both sides Popps.

Popps
12-05-2009, 03:56 PM
i dont count ones that dont get lost. 3-4 lost fumbles for a career is amazing really. 9 times in 9 season he dropped the ball. That also is amazing really when you think about. Especially since he always has been a contact type runner.

McDaniels said in no uncertain terms that his ball-security and physical style is why he's the choice for closing out games.

It's not a secret. It's not a mystery. The facts are all there.

Popps
12-05-2009, 03:59 PM
IMO, you're playing both sides Popps.

Incorrect.

I assume you're saying that because I like Hillis' physical skills? What's not to like. I thought he was a great back last year.

I simply offered some information for the board to digest. I didn't write it. I didn't start these (many) rumors. I didn't make up this scouting report.

Again, you can blame me if you want... but ask McDaniels, and I highly doubt the reason Hillis isn't starting has anything to do with Popps from the Orange Mane.

Why is it so hard for people to grasp?

The kid has skills, he's also apparently got some mental/coaching issues.

As I said, if you've played in your life... you've had to have seen this many times. Even as a fan, this should be a familiar story.

****, we just shipped one of the best examples of this to Chicago. You think ****-up Jay Cutler would be a starter if he would have been a 7th round selection? His ass would be planted on the bench... just like Hillis.

It takes more than physical skill.

strafen
12-05-2009, 05:16 PM
Incorrect.

I assume you're saying that because I like Hillis' physical skills? What's not to like. I thought he was a great back last year.

I simply offered some information for the board to digest. I didn't write it. I didn't start these (many) rumors. I didn't make up this scouting report.

Again, you can blame me if you want... but ask McDaniels, and I highly doubt the reason Hillis isn't starting has anything to do with Popps from the Orange Mane.

Why is it so hard for people to grasp?

The kid has skills, he's also apparently got some mental/coaching issues.

As I said, if you've played in your life... you've had to have seen this many times. Even as a fan, this should be a familiar story.

****, we just shipped one of the best examples of this to Chicago. You think ****-up Jay Cutler would be a starter if he would have been a 7th round selection? His ass would be planted on the bench... just like Hillis.

It takes more than physical skill.The bottom line is, you heard or dug up this info/rumor and ever since you did that, you have made it your mission to propagate it all over this board...in more than one occassion.
You continue to bring this rumors about Hillis that nobody else outside this board like I've already said, is even talking about it.

I'm yet to hear anything from the local media or the national media.

If this was any kind of worthy story, we would have already heard plenty about it.
I've just learned about these rumors here!

Archer81
12-05-2009, 05:50 PM
The bottom line is, you heard or dug up this info/rumor and ever since you did that, you have made it your mission to propagate it all over this board...in more than one occassion.
You continue to bring this rumors about Hillis that nobody else outside this board like I've already said, is even talking about it.

I'm yet to hear anything from the local media or the national media.

If this was any kind of worthy story, we would have already heard plenty about it.
I've just learned about these rumors here!


Didnt Taco post some predraft reports on several Bronco draft picks? That pretty much moves the argument over Hillis' ability to take coaching from rumor to fact.

:Broncos:

Taco John
12-05-2009, 05:54 PM
Didnt Taco post some predraft reports on several Bronco draft picks? That pretty much moves the argument over Hillis' ability to take coaching from rumor to fact.

:Broncos:

I wouldn't go that far.

It certainly doesn't help Hillis's case. But I personally think the work he put in last year merits more touches than he's seen this season. I think it reflects as poorly on Josh as it does Hillis that he can't manage to utilize a five tool talent like Peyton.

strafen
12-05-2009, 05:58 PM
Didnt Taco post some predraft reports on several Bronco draft picks? That pretty much moves the argument over Hillis' ability to take coaching from rumor to fact.

:Broncos:

I would consider it a fact if it, in any way, shape, or form would have affected Hillis performance on the field.
We haven't seen enough of Hillis play this season to make anything of it.
He has only carried the ball 4 times in 6 games he's played.
Not enough in my opinion to prove anything one way or the other...

Archer81
12-05-2009, 06:04 PM
I wouldn't go that far.

It certainly doesn't help Hillis's case. But I personally think the work he put in last year merits more touches than he's seen this season. I think it reflects as poorly on Josh as it does Hillis that he can't manage to utilize a five tool talent like Peyton.


Its entirely possible Hillis' practices are the reason he is not seeing the field more on offense. We all agree the guy is talented, but what difference does that make if he doesnt put the work in to harness it? A 500 count thread about a 2nd string fullback is a little extreme, IMO.

:Broncos:

Popps
12-05-2009, 06:06 PM
I would consider it a fact if it, in any way, shape, or form would have affected Hillis performance on the field.
We haven't seen enough of Hillis play this season to make anything of it.
He has only carried the ball 4 times in 6 games he's played.
Not enough in my opinion to prove anything one way or the other...

Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels saw enough to keep him in a reserve role as a running back, not a starter.

Taco John
12-05-2009, 06:09 PM
Its entirely possible Hillis' practices are the reason he is not seeing the field more on offense. We all agree the guy is talented, but what difference does that make if he doesnt put the work in to harness it? A 500 count thread about a 2nd string fullback is a little extreme, IMO.

:Broncos:


I don't think that this thread would have made 500 posts if the general consensus was that he's merely a second string fullback.

Archer81
12-05-2009, 06:12 PM
I don't think that this thread would have made 500 posts if the general consensus was that he's merely a second string fullback.


He cant beat out a converted ILB for a position he played in since HS. What more do some people want?


:Broncos:

strafen
12-05-2009, 06:14 PM
Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels saw enough to keep him in a reserve role as a running back, not a starter.No matter what you say or allege will ever trump Hillis performance on the field.
That's all it's been proved so far. The kid can play football!

Popps
12-05-2009, 06:42 PM
No matter what you say or allege will ever trump Hillis performance on the field.
That's all it's been proved so far. The kid can play football!

Again, I'm not sure what other words in the English language I can use to convey the simple and very distinct point that we all get that he can play football.

Dip**** Taco doens't understand it. But, perhaps you're brighter than him? Maybe not.

Everyone has seen that Hillis has physical football talent, at least for a few games last season. We all get it. That's not the issue.

The issue is that he can't win a starting job for a 2nd straight year, and there is much speculation and some written information that he may have mental/coaching issues.

You can use that information and assume that all of this circumstantial evidence might point to something, or you can pretend there is a conspiracy. It's your choice.

Taco John
12-05-2009, 09:11 PM
What more do some people want?



Simple. For my part, I'd like to see him get an opportunity to carry the football. That's not anything new, but if you guys are going to keep asking, I don't see any reason not to keep answering.

HAT
12-05-2009, 09:18 PM
Simple. For my part, I'd like to see him get an opportunity to carry the football.

So would I Taco.....It's a damn shame that he can't earn that opportunity.

Coaches are no different than players...They get paid on future contracts based on stats. The only stat that matter when it comes to how well a HC will get paid on a future contract is W/L.

There's not a HC out there in the pro ranks that won't play players that give him the best chance to add to that W column. It only adds to their bottom line.

Taco John
12-05-2009, 09:27 PM
So would I Taco.....It's a damn shame that he can't earn that opportunity.

Coaches are no different than players...They get paid on future contracts based on stats. The only stat that matter when it comes to how well a HC will get paid on a future contract is W/L.

There's not a HC out there in the pro ranks that won't play players that give him the best chance to add to that W column. It only adds to their bottom line.


I mean, ok... Whatever. I think it's silly to think that a five tool player like Hillis can't be used to help our team win, but I get it. People trust the coaches, and that's a good thing. I personally think there's something wrong when Josh doesn't have it in him to get at least as much as Shanahan got out of the guy. But he's doing fine for a first year coach, even if he can't get the most out of guys like Hillis and Eddie.

Popps
12-05-2009, 09:48 PM
He cant beat out a converted ILB for a position he played in since HS. What more do some people want?


:Broncos:

A Shanahan-drafted converted ILB.

HAT
12-05-2009, 09:56 PM
I personally think there's something wrong when Josh doesn't have it in him to get at least as much as Shanahan got out of the guy.


Seriously? The same Shanahan that had given him a grand total of 11 carries through week 10 last year?

I'm not seeing much of a difference.

Are you trying to say that you'd be happier if Knowsh, Buck, and the rest were on IR so the HC would be forced to get Peyton his carries?

I've purposely tried to stay out of this thread because it just doesn't make any sense. I'm positive that if PH were forced into duty he could probably avg. 4.0 YPC just like he had last year up to this point......

What I don't get is why any Bronco fan would want that to happen?

Popps
12-05-2009, 10:04 PM
But he's doing fine for a first year coach, even if he can't get the most out of guys like Hillis and Eddie.

Hilarious!

Mike Shanahan "got the most" out of Peyton Hillis when ALL OTHER OPTIONS were used up.

We're through 11 games, Taco?

Any guesses on how much Mike Shanahan had "gotten out of" Peyton Hillis through 11 weeks? I'll help you...

Peyton Hillis Rushing totals through 11 weeks - 2008

82 Yards.

That's right, folks... 7.5 yards per week! Through 11 weeks, Peyton Hillis rushed about the distance between the average person's front door and their mailbox.

As usual, great analysis, Taco.

By the end of the season, Hillis had racked up a whopping 350 yards and one game over 100.



Again, I liked the guy... but let's not be silly, Taco.

HAT
12-05-2009, 10:22 PM
Hilarious!

Mike Shanahan "got the most" out of Peyton Hillis when ALL OTHER OPTIONS were used up.

We're through 11 games, Taco?

Any guesses on how much Mike Shanahan had "gotten out of" Peyton Hillis through 11 weeks? I'll help you...

Peyton Hillis Rushing totals through 11 weeks - 2008

82 Yards.

That's right, folks... 7.5 yards per week! Through 11 weeks, Peyton Hillis rushed about the distance between the average person's front door and their mailbox.

As usual, great analysis, Taco.

By the end of the season, Hillis had racked up a whopping 350 yards and one game over 100.



Again, I liked the guy... but let's not be silly, Taco.

Mike Shanahan was a Hillis finding GENIUS Popps.

Shanny gave Hillis 3 carries through the first 8 games last year.
Josh McD gave Hillis 4 carries through the first 8 games this year.

Shanny had Hillis active for 2 games out of the first 8 last year.
Josh McD had Hillis active for 4 games out of the first 8 this year.

I hope rasta earns his BS in Sport Management by the time Hillis' contract is up. Maybe he can agent up and get Hillis the chance & the contract he 'deserves' with another team. Surely offensive dolts like Mike Shanahan & Josh McDaniels don't have a clue what they are doing?

Who knows....if the OP is correct, Hillis may just be dumb enough to hire a rasta as an agent?

PS.....Peyton is still one of my top 10 favorite current Broncos!

broncolife
12-05-2009, 11:59 PM
I know right? doesn't matter..his career longest run is almost twice as long as Hillis'

Whats his career longest run got to do with me finding humor in the length of this thread? I wasnt bashing Moreno.

Kaylore
12-06-2009, 12:30 AM
And again, not to beat a dead horse, but Hillis was inactive for a few games because of the the very issues alluded to at the beginning of the thread in 2008. This has nothing to do with McDaniels not being able to maximize potential. It has everything to do with Hillis getting carries last year because he was seventh on the depth chart (with good reason.)

broncolife
12-06-2009, 01:01 AM
I really dont care what Shanny did pre Hillis getting a shot at rb. I never expected to see Hillis playing rb during the season anyways. After Hillis played Shanny realised he got himself a running back. He said himself that Hillis proved he could play rb. So all this talk about 2 great masterminds not letting Hillis play at rb is whole bunch of bs to me.Plus coaches are not perfect I have seen plenty of times when people were right on here and the coaches were wrong. I know it goes the other way too.

Shanny
-rookie fb drafted to be fb
-Shanny tried all options before letting him play. Which was the right thing to do.
-Shanny out of options plays Hillis at RB and is glad he did
-With Shanny I bet Hillis chances of starting or being 2nd rb would have been pretty high since he saw what Hillis can do in that system.

Mcdaniels
-Unlike Shanny who didnt know what he had at Rb has seen the tape and chose to put Hillis as our 4th rb.See the difference? One saw him play rb in this offense the other didnt.
-Drafted Moreno,brought in buck and Jordan and I guess all 3 beat him out.

-Hillis lined up in training camp as the running back, the fullback, as a receiver,tight end and did special teams.

-Hillis looked like the best back in preseason

-Mcdaniels On RB Peyton Hillis’ style of play

“He is the kind of guy that plays the way—he is kind of an older-school type of guy in terms of being hardnosed. Everything he does is that way, you are right. Physical fits him. Tough fits him. (He) plays smart. He plays a lot of different positions on our team. He has got very versatile skills. Those are the things we look for in all our players, and Peyton seems to be one of the few that it all comes naturally to him. That is just the way he is. He is a great guy to have on your team, a great teammate. We are fortunate to have him on our team.”

-I guess Hillis became real stupid after training camp or he did something to piss off Mcdaniels. I just dont see a couple of mistakes putting Hillis that far into the doghouse.My only guess is that Mcdaniels overwhelmed him with too much stuff.I mean not only did he have to learn the new offense but like 5 other position too.

By the way I am not saying start Hillis, I am just would like to see him get more shots with the ball.I understand Moreno and Buck being first and 2nd string I just cant see how Jordan gets the 3rd spot without favoritism. And I am also not saying Mcdaniels and Moreno suck.

broncolife
12-06-2009, 01:04 AM
Dang, I was trying to get away from this thread but I have feeling I am going to get sucked right back in :)

broncolife
12-06-2009, 01:15 AM
This is the kind of stuff weve been reading before the season and combined with last years play people are just wondering why we havent seen him get the ball more.

Hillis glad to help anywhere
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post
Posted: 08/23/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT


Running back Peyton Hillis tries to break away from Seattle's defense Saturday night during the Broncos' second preseason game.—

Thing is, Peyton Hillis can run. He can catch. And he can block.

And he can do all of those things well enough that even Hillis himself may not know where Peyton's place should be on a football field.

"A guy like me, it's probably pretty hard for somebody to pinpoint what position to have me do, where to put me all the time," Hillis said. "So in that way I guess your blessing's also your curse. All you can do is live with the decisions the coaches make and work hard and hope they all pan out for you."

So while a lot of things changed in and around the Broncos after coach Mike Shanahan was fired and Josh McDaniels was hired, the fact that Hillis will be asked to do a lot of things in the Denver offense

Broncos
View slide show of Broncos running back Peyton Hillis.
has not been one of them.

Hillis has already lined up in training camp as the running back, the fullback, as a receiver and as a tight end. Toss in a steady diet of special teams and that's a full docket.

"(He's) kind of an older-school guy," McDaniels said. "Physical fits him, tough fits him, smart, plays a lot of positions on our team."

In his rookie year last season after the Broncos made him a seventh-round draft pick, Hillis became just the second player in franchise history to have a 100-yard rushing game and a 100-yard receiving game in the same season. He joined Ring of Fame member Floyd Little with that distinction.

But it was nothing new for Hillis, who played running back, fullback, wide receiver, H-back and tight end and returned punts for Arkansas. He was a good enough runner and blocker to be a regular contributor in a star-studded backfield that included Darren McFadden and Felix Jones — both first-round picks in the 2008 draft.

However, that versatility means Hillis hasn't always been left alone to flourish in one spot, to perhaps be all he can be with far fewer things on his to-do list.

"It got on me every now and then, got me down, especially in college, but

(Click image to enlarge)I just finally learned that my blessing was to do a lot of things on a football field," said Hillis, who finished the 2008 season on injured reserve after tearing his right hamstring in a game against Kansas City on Dec. 7. "So you get used to it, I guess."

Good thing, because McDaniels has plenty of plans for him as well. Being a disciple of Bill Belichick, McDaniels will certainly play matchup football above all else. Belichick is regarded as one of the NFL's best at taking away what a team wants to do the most and at finding one-on-one matchups all over the field that work in his favor.

McDaniels' offense is built on changing formations, moving receivers around to create indecision by the defense as it sets its coverage. That is why a player like Hillis appears all over the formation.

Hillis played fullback and running back Saturday night as well as lining up wide in the formation several times. He carried the ball twice for 5 yards — he had a 29-yard run called back on a clipping penalty by Ryan Clady — to go with an 18-yard reception.

"I think as time goes on, I like doing a lot of things more and more," Hillis said. "Again, you know, your blessing can be your curse sometimes. You can love something too much, you can spend too much time with something — that's when you've got to learn how to balance.

"Some people spend too much time with their job, not enough with their family. You've got to balance things out. I think I'm learning how to balance it all out and just try to work as hard as I can on all of it so I can do whatever they want me to."

Hillis also may have been the most consistent running back in training camp.

"If I meet somebody and they ask me what position I play, I always just say an 'athlete' or that I do a lot of things," Hillis said. "Being classified as an athlete is better than the rest anyway. So I'll go with that. I'm an athlete."

Popps
12-06-2009, 01:17 AM
I figured this thread would be dead after 15 or so posts.

Then again, I watched a Tito Paul thread rack up a few thousand posts back in the day. So, you just never know.

hambone13
12-06-2009, 02:35 AM
I figured this thread would be dead after 15 or so posts.

Then again, I watched a Tito Paul thread rack up a few thousand posts back in the day. So, you just never know.

If you weren't such a bad ass, how would you be capable of actual normal cardiovascular excellence.

Bronco Yoda
12-06-2009, 04:27 AM
I guess Hillis could always get a gig as a tow truck?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/netizen/Bronco%20Avs/hillispull.jpg

Gort
12-06-2009, 07:31 AM
Peyton Hillis went to a Burger King and ordered a Big Mac. and got one!

let's see Knowshon do that!!!

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 07:52 AM
You continue to bring this rumors about Hillis that nobody else outside this board like I've already said, is even talking about it.

I'm yet to hear anything from the local media or the national media.

If this was any kind of worthy story, we would have already heard plenty about it.
I've just learned about these rumors here!

Why bring the national media into it? They hardly talk about Champ F'ng Bailey, except when they're saying he's been supposedly dethroned as the best in the business by Assmunch or Revis. If they're not talking about Champ, why would they talk about a 3rd/4th string RB with one or two great games to his name?

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 12:44 PM
Damn. It's too bad Moreno can't convert 3rd and 4th and short, huh guys?

Popps
12-06-2009, 12:46 PM
Damn. It's too bad Moreno can't convert 3rd and 4th and short, huh guys?

Yea, we're really struggling in the running game.

Too bad McDaniels can't "get enough" out of Moreno and Buckhalter.

It's a CONSPIRACY!!!

Popps
12-06-2009, 01:10 PM
Hillis is in and he's running ANGRY!

Earn the reps, Peyton!

GoBroncos84
12-06-2009, 01:10 PM
I know its garbage time, but I love the way Hillis runs the football. Obviously Moreno and Buckhalter are our top 2 backs, but I hope they find a way to get Hillis more involved. He should be 3 ahead of Jordan, without question

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:19 PM
Thank you Hillis for showing and proving me right.
You're a stud!!!

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:20 PM
Yea, we're really struggling in the running game.

Too bad McDaniels can't "get enough" out of Moreno and Buckhalter.

It's a CONSPIRACY!!!

How many times has this happened this season?

Er...nevermind!

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 01:22 PM
I would love to find a way to get him a few touches a game. He's just a punishing runner. He can catch. Maybe put him in on a few of those screens.

Taco John
12-06-2009, 01:23 PM
Josh has embarassingly left that on the bench all season long. Everyone on the field knew who the ball was going to, and they still couldn't stop him.

Sorry Josh. I like you, but just like I thought Shanahan was a fool for starting a back-up center as a starting left tackle, I think you've been a fool for not managing to get this five tool player onto the field and into your offense.

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:26 PM
Hillis is in and he's running ANGRY!

Earn the reps, Peyton!

Earn what?
The guy has not been given a chance to even run meaningful plays!

He showed today that he's the same guy he was last year.
The announcers pointed out the obvious he's only carried the ball 4 times for 5 yards.
That's retarded!
He goes in the there and gets more that 3 consecutive carries and shows the kind of weapon he is!

Yeah, keep him on the bench. Let's keep Moreno in there until he gets his 100 yard sometime this year!

Hillis goes in there and in 7 carries gets 47 yards. More than half of the yards Motreno's got.
That's freaking pathetic.

Let's get the best player on the field please!
That's how things are supposed to work!

houghtam
12-06-2009, 01:29 PM
Hillis goes in there and in 7 carries gets 47 yards. More than half of the yards Motreno's got.

Against a team down by 30 with three minutes to go. I'm sure they were putting forth their best effort there.

If you want Hillis starting over Moreno, you've got a screw loose.

Again (for about the 100th time), no one's saying Hillis doesn't have talent. But A) there's got to be a reason for two coaches to let him ride the bench and B) he's not better than Moreno or Buckhalter.

Popps
12-06-2009, 01:29 PM
LOL

You two losers keep panicking about nothing.

The rest of us will be enjoying the win, and our big rushing output today.

Popps
12-06-2009, 01:30 PM
I'm glad Hillis got carries. I like the guy, plus... it'll keep the Taco/Dragster comedy show going for us.

watermock
12-06-2009, 01:33 PM
McD will put him in the doghouse for going out of bounds...Retard!

DenverBrit
12-06-2009, 01:34 PM
Earn what?
The guy has not been given a chance to even run meaningful plays!

He showed today that he's the same guy he was last year.
The announcers pointed out the obvious he's only carried the ball 4 times for 5 yards.
That's retarded!
He goes in the there and gets more that 3 consecutive carries and shows the kind of weapon he is!

Yeah, keep him on the bench. Let's keep Moreno in there until he gets his 100 yard sometime this year!

Hillis goes in there and in 7 carries gets 47 yards. More than half of the yards Motreno's got.
That's freaking pathetic.

Let's get the best player on the field please!
That's how things are supposed to work!


Bobby Turner has that covered.

If Hillis were showing up in practice, don't you think he would be getting playing time? ;)

Taco John
12-06-2009, 01:35 PM
I definitely am enjoying the win. This was about as satisfying game as I could imagine, especially seeing the cherry on top, with Hillis smashing people in the mouth. Finally we've got some smash mouth football going on in our offense!

I'm really looking forward to seeing how we match up against Indianapolis next week. I really think that if we add Hillis in there more, we could walk out of there with a W. I'm very pumped for this next game.

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:37 PM
Against a team down by 30 with three minutes to go. I'm sure they were putting forth their best effort there.

If you want Hillis starting over Moreno, you've got a screw loose.

Again (for about the 100th time), no one's saying Hillis doesn't have talent. But A) there's got to be a reason for two coaches to let him ride the bench and B) he's not better than Moreno or Buckhalter.

Hillis is the better player. Period.
I knew excuses were going to be popping up to explain that away.
Funny you mentioned "Against a team down by 30 with three minutes to go. I'm sure they were putting forth their best effort there" That's exactly what I was thinking when Moreno scored his last touch down and longest run of his day...

Amazing how things work both ways, huh?

If you want Hillis starting over Moreno, you've got a screw loose.Hillis could start over Moreno and that will be an upgrade seeing what Moreno has done so far, and what we know Hillis can do. Don't you agree?
All he did was carry the ball 7 times with our second string line against the Chiefs first string defense and put 47 yards when they knew -as Taco mentioned- Hills was going to get the ball.
Did you turn your head the other way when you saw Hills carrying defenders on his back?
Isn't that what he did last freakin' year?

Moreno is one hit, and he's down.
That's why he hasn't had a 100-yard game in his career. He's been leaving yards on the turf, no pun intended!

cabronco
12-06-2009, 01:38 PM
McD will put him in the doghouse for going out of bounds...Retard!

The KC Tards couldnt take him down so it took 3 of them to push him out of bounds. He is a Beast ! You cant stop him ! Can only hope to contain him and not get hurt !

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 01:40 PM
Dude you are massively over hyping Hillis and underestimating Moreno and I'm a Hillis supporter. We have three effective RB's. We should be trying to get them all into the game.

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:44 PM
I'm glad Hillis got carries. I like the guy, plus... it'll keep the Taco/Dragster comedy show going for us.47 yards in 7 carries. 6.7 avg. Moreno 86 yards in 21 carries 4.1 avg
It takes a man to admit you're wrong.
That's why I lost all respect for you.
Grow some balls and eat crow, bud.
Hillis proved today he's the better back.
What else and in what manner you want to be proven wrong?

Hills doesn't do his talking M-F, he does his talking on Sundays by kicking ass on the field. That's all the guy does!

Drek
12-06-2009, 01:46 PM
Josh has embarassingly left that on the bench all season long. Everyone on the field knew who the ball was going to, and they still couldn't stop him.

Sorry Josh. I like you, but just like I thought Shanahan was a fool for starting a back-up center as a starting left tackle, I think you've been a fool for not managing to get this five tool player onto the field and into your offense.

And thankfully this time he didn't fumble it.

And how would he have done if he needed to read and pick up a pass pro assignment?

Hillis isn't in McDaniels doghouse, as we've seen all year log McDaniels doghouse = cut. Hillis is still on the roster and frequently active on Sundays. He just isn't mentally up to speed on this offense and the very diverse role he's required to play in it.

McDaniels saw the initial stumbles Hillis had with this complex scheme and he's now spoon feeding it to him. If he's ready for the playoffs its a massive win for McDaniels. If he's not ready until next year though so be it. Not everyone in the NFL becomes a star overnight in any system, McDaniels is taking a more MLB-like approach, giving Hillis time to develop before asking much of him.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 01:46 PM
Moreno is one hit, and he's down.

Next time Moreno carries the ball, I suggest you watch with your eyes open.

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:47 PM
Dude you are massively over hyping Hillis and underestimating Moreno and I'm a Hillis supporter. We have three effective RB's. We should be trying to get them all into the game.

No, you got that completely backwards.
This is what you should've said because it makes more sense...

Dude you are massively over hyping Moreno and underestimating Hillis and I'm a Moreno supporter. We have three effective RB's. We should be trying to get them all into the game.

Taco John
12-06-2009, 01:47 PM
We have three effective RB's. We should be trying to get them all into the game.

This is the only point that I've been making in this thread.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 01:48 PM
47 yards in 7 carries. 6.7 avg. Moreno 86 yards in 21 carries 4.1 avg

Hillis' yards were tainted by that one big run. His first 5 carries went for a grand total of 17 yards.

And let's not forget that the only thing to stop Moreno on 2 occasions was the endzone. That cannot be overlooked.

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:48 PM
Next time Moreno carries the ball, I suggest you watch with your eyes open.So, what you saw and what we all saw was not what really happened then?
Hmm?
I swear I wasn't drinking while I watched the game.
Maybe your selective memory is betraying you?

Taco John
12-06-2009, 01:49 PM
Hillis' yards were tainted by that one big run. His first 5 carries went for a grand total of 17 yards.

And let's not forget that the only thing to stop Moreno on 2 occasions was the endzone. That cannot be overlooked.


Tainted? That's how Hillis runs. He pounds and pounds and wears down a defense and then breaks a big one. You can't take that away from him and call it "tainted."

This isn't about Hillis vs. Moreno. It's about using Hillis to wear down defenses. He's a five tool player. He shouldn't be sitting on street clothes on the bench. It's not a big deal now, because we're winning. But when we went on that four game skid, we could have used Hillis in pads. Whatever the problem is, you've got to coach him up and get him on the field. You can't leave a five tool talent to languish on the bench.

Moreno was spotty earlier this year, but has had three fine weeks in a row. I don't personally think he's proven to be the best running back on the field yet - I think Buckhalter made a fine case for that today the way he was hitting the hole. But Moreno has upped his production, limited his fumbles and is looking to be a solid option into the future.

I think we've got to find a way to use all three of these guys.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 01:49 PM
So, what you saw and what we all saw was not what really happened then?
Hmm?
I swear I wasn't drinking while I watched the game.
Maybe your selective memory is betraying you?

The guy NEVER goes down on first contact. Sorry.

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:51 PM
And thankfully this time he didn't fumble it.

And how would he have done if he needed to read and pick up a pass pro assignment?

Hillis isn't in McDaniels doghouse, as we've seen all year log McDaniels doghouse = cut. Hillis is still on the roster and frequently active on Sundays. He just isn't mentally up to speed on this offense and the very diverse role he's required to play in it.

McDaniels saw the initial stumbles Hillis had with this complex scheme and he's now spoon feeding it to him. If he's ready for the playoffs its a massive win for McDaniels. If he's not ready until next year though so be it. Not everyone in the NFL becomes a star overnight in any system, McDaniels is taking a more MLB-like approach, giving Hillis time to develop before asking much of him.That's totally retard.
All the guy is going to do is follow his blocker and run the ball.
This is not rocket-science for guys who have played football all their lives.
Not only your assessment on the situation is retarded, but utterly ignorant

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 01:52 PM
Tainted? That's how Hillis runs. He pounds and pounds and wears down a defense and then breaks a big one. You can't take that away from him and call it "tainted."

I understand how he runs. I'm talking about how averages get tainted here by one or two plays over the course of a game or season. This isn't rocket science.

When six of seven runs goes for 3 yards or less, it's obvious the overall ypc average was tainted by the one big run.

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:53 PM
The guy NEVER goes down on first contact. Sorry.

NEVER?
Come on, I saw him more than once today stopped for a loss, stopped for a gain of 1-2 yards.
That's why he can't get 100-yard in a game.
He leaves those yards on the ground, sort of speak. He lacks toughness.
Toughness is what Hillis showed for the 100th time today. That's toughness.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 01:54 PM
All the guy is going to do is follow his blocker and run the ball.This is not rocket-science for guys who have played football all their lives.

If that were truly the case, then Moreno's first TD never happens. A RB needs to do a little more than simply follow the lead blocker. That play was a stop behind the line if Moreno doesn't find his own crease away from the intended gap.

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 01:54 PM
No, you got that completely backwards.
This is what you should've said because it makes more sense...

Sorry dude but no.

Moreno had a very good game today. Consistently getting yardage even when yardage wasn't really there.

Your love of Hillis is blinding you to what Moreno is doing. He's getting better every week.

Hillis is a great asset and should be involved more. Especially in the screen game. But You're blind if you think Hillis is head and shoulders above either of the other two RB's on the roster. He's just a different type of RB. He runs straight and runs hard. That can work well. But it's not enough to just do that. We don't have the line to make that be all we need. To top it off Hillis isn't the brightest bulb in the box.

He should be in the rotation though and getting a number of touches per game. We should have plays designed specifically for him so he doesn't get overwhelmed by the scheme. I agree we do need his punishing run style. But he's not THE guy for the entire game.

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:55 PM
I understand how he runs. I'm talking about how averages get tainted here by one or two plays over the course of a game or season. This isn't rocket science.

When six of seven runs goes for 3 yards or less, it's obvious the overall ypc average was tainted by the one big run.

You're talking about Buckhalter?

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 01:55 PM
NEVER?
Come on, I saw him more than once today stopped for a loss, stopped for a gain of 1-2 yards.
That's why he can't get 100-yard in a game.
He leaves those yards on the ground, sort of speak. He lacks toughness.
Toughness is what Hillis showed for the 100th time today. That's toughness.

Those gains of 1-2 yards are because he got away from defenders that should have stopped him for -3 or -4 yards. He doesn't get stopped for a loss. That's huge.

Taco John
12-06-2009, 01:56 PM
I understand how he runs. I'm talking about how averages get tainted here by one or two plays over the course of a game or season. This isn't rocket science.

When six of seven runs goes for 3 yards or less, it's obvious the overall ypc average was tainted by the one big run.

I disagree. I think that's BS. Averages are about looking at the big picture, which includes the big runs. His stats weren't tainted. He earned them.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 01:58 PM
NEVER?
Come on, I saw him more than once today stopped for a loss

HAHA! WRONG!

I've got you once again. He didn't have a single stop for a loss.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009120606/2009/REG13/broncos@chiefs#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

broncolife
12-06-2009, 01:58 PM
I understand how he runs. I'm talking about how averages get tainted here by one or two plays over the course of a game or season. This isn't rocket science.

When six of seven runs goes for 3 yards or less, it's obvious the overall ypc average was tainted by the one big run.


I only count 1 run for 4 yards or less. And if your so willing to take Hillis huge gain of 13. Im pretty sure you wouldnt mind taking Moreno and Bucks big runs away too.

# 1-10-DEN 5 (6:03) 22-P.Hillis up the middle to DEN 10 for 5 yards (53-D.Williams).
# 2-5-DEN 10 (5:22) 22-P.Hillis up the middle to DEN 14 for 4 yards (94-T.Jackson).
# 3-1-DEN 14 (4:36) (Run formation) PENALTY on DEN-73-C.Kuper, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 14 - No Play.
# 3-6-DEN 9 (4:36) 22-P.Hillis left guard to DEN 15 for 6 yards (91-T.Hali).
# 1-10-DEN 15 (3:53) 22-P.Hillis up the middle to DEN 21 for 6 yards (96-A.Studebaker).
# 2-4-DEN 21 (3:15) 22-P.Hillis left end to DEN 22 for 1 yard (96-A.Studebaker, 53-D.Williams).
# 3-3-DEN 22 (2:31) 22-P.Hillis left end to DEN 35 for 13 yards (30-M.Brown).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 1-10-DEN 35 (2:00) 22-P.Hillis right end pushed ob at DEN 47 for 12 yards (39-B.Carr).

strafen
12-06-2009, 01:59 PM
Moreno has had more than his fair of chances to break 100-yard a game.
WHY HAS HE NOT?
Hillis got almost half of that in 7 freakin' carries!
He punishes defenders, as opposed to get punished by defenders ala Moreno

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 02:00 PM
I disagree. I think that's BS. Averages are about looking at the big picture, which includes the big runs. His stats weren't tainted. He earned them.

Look at Prater. Early in the season, his field goal percentage sucked after only having 4 misses. Why? Because he didn't have that many attempts. All it took was a few games of 2-3 and 3-3 before his average shot way up.

Give me his YPC after he's carried more than a handful of times and see if he can keep it up. He didn't last year.

Taco John
12-06-2009, 02:02 PM
I understand how he runs. I'm talking about how averages get tainted here by one or two plays over the course of a game or season. This isn't rocket science.

When six of seven runs goes for 3 yards or less, it's obvious the overall ypc average was tainted by the one big run.


I'm afraid your point doesn't hold up to scrutiny when you look at the data. You said that six of seven runs went for 3 yards or less. Here is what the actual production was:

1-10-DEN 5 (6:03) 22-P.Hillis up the middle to DEN 10 for 5 yards (53-D.Williams).

2-5-DEN 10 (5:22) 22-P.Hillis up the middle to DEN 14 for 4 yards (94-T.Jackson).

3-6-DEN 9 (4:36) 22-P.Hillis left guard to DEN 15 for 6 yards (91-T.Hali).

1-10-DEN 15 (3:53) 22-P.Hillis up the middle to DEN 21 for 6 yards (96-A.Studebaker).

2-4-DEN 21 (3:15) 22-P.Hillis left end to DEN 22 for 1 yard (96-A.Studebaker, 53-D.Williams).

3-3-DEN 22 (2:31) 22-P.Hillis left end to DEN 35 for 13 yards (30-M.Brown).

1-10-DEN 35 (2:00) 22-P.Hillis right end pushed ob at DEN 47 for 12 yards (39-B.Carr).

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 02:02 PM
Moreno has had more than his fair of chances to break 100-yard a game.
WHY HAS HE NOT?

BUCKHALTER!!!!!!!!

Look, after drive #1, Moreno had 22 yards after 3 carries. Then they put Buck in there for the next drive. The following drive, Moreno came back in, but they went heavy on the passing for some strange reason.

So, these are things outside the control of Moreno.

Drek
12-06-2009, 02:02 PM
That's totally retard.
All the guy is going to do is follow his blocker and run the ball.
This is not rocket-science for guys who have played football all their lives.
Not only your assessment on the situation is retarded, but utterly ignorant
I don't waste my time with people who can't discuss football beyond a cave man level of understanding. So don't waste your time quoting me until you bring a real take that involves some form of thought, ok?

Seriously Taco, if this is the most vocal guy on your side of a debate you should probably consider if you're on the rational side of the discussion.

FOOTBALL AM SIMPLE GAME! RUN FORWARD, HIT HARD! AM GOOD SPORT!

Its like debating football with a real life Horvil Tiki.

The MVPlaya
12-06-2009, 02:04 PM
lol @ Hillis proving he's the better back in garbage time.

That's a bit reaching...

Fresh running back into a game with worn out defenders?

Man GTFOH...

Taco John
12-06-2009, 02:04 PM
Seriously Taco, if this is the most vocal guy on your side of a debate you should probably consider if you're on the rational side of the discussion.


I don't base my arguments on who is arguing with or against me, but rather what the data will support. I think that the data more than supports the idea that Hillis should be given more opportunities to help this team win.

The MVPlaya
12-06-2009, 02:06 PM
How did Hillis prove he is better when he's in against WORN out players that have played damn near a full game?

What if I went out there and smoked one of the WR's...you think I'd be a faster player?

You sound ridiculous...

Taco John
12-06-2009, 02:06 PM
Hillis proved today he's the better back.




This is an extreme that I'm not ready to go to yet. I think the only thing Hillis did out there today is prove that he should be getting more opportunities.

Popps
12-06-2009, 02:06 PM
No, you got that completely backwards.
This is what you should've said because it makes more sense...

Who ****ing cares. We won, you goddamned weirdo. Did you even notice that?

You have to be related to him. Honestly. It's embarrassing.

broncolife
12-06-2009, 02:07 PM
I predicted 40 extra pages if Hillis played. Well thats 2 pages down, only 38 more to go :)

Taco John
12-06-2009, 02:07 PM
For what it's worth, I think using Hillis in combination with Moreno would lead Moreno to break much bigger gains. Hillis should be used as a sledge hammer, and Moreno as the jail breaker.

Archer81
12-06-2009, 02:07 PM
Congrats to every Bronco running back today. All three did their job, regardless of the situation. Good work guys.


:Broncos:

The Joker
12-06-2009, 02:07 PM
Hillis proved today he's the better back.

Just went full retard there. :rofl:

Let me ask you something.

Who is a better WR?

Reggie Wayne or Pierre Garcon?

broncolife
12-06-2009, 02:08 PM
Congrats to every Bronco running back today. All three did their job, regardless of the situation. Good work guys.


:Broncos:

Rep

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:09 PM
To top it off Hillis isn't the brightest bulb in the box.

But he's not THE guy for the entire game.
Explain that to me, would you?
I want conclusive evidence that Hillis is a retard. like you're pretty much saying.

I want prove that Hillis is not the guy for the entire game.

Again, no matter what crap you guys constantly keep bringing up, I'm yet to see any of that in Hillis performance on the field.

The first thing I was doing the minute I saw him on the field was to see if he was going to be mentally confused, rusty or anything that would remotely suggest that all this BS I keep hearing has any merits.

Guess what?
I didn't see it, and neither did YOU!

tsiguy96
12-06-2009, 02:09 PM
This is an extreme that I'm not ready to go to yet. I think the only thing Hillis did out there today is prove that he should be getting more opportunities.

exactly. i think now we can see that buck and moreno have a bit more upside, but hillis needs to be used more than he is.

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:10 PM
Just went full retard there. :rofl:

Let me ask you something.

Who is a better WR?

Reggie Wayne or Pierre Garcon?

Moreno is...

baja
12-06-2009, 02:10 PM
And thankfully this time he didn't fumble it.

And how would he have done if he needed to read and pick up a pass pro assignment?

Hillis isn't in McDaniels doghouse, as we've seen all year log McDaniels doghouse = cut. Hillis is still on the roster and frequently active on Sundays. He just isn't mentally up to speed on this offense and the very diverse role he's required to play in it.

McDaniels saw the initial stumbles Hillis had with this complex scheme and he's now spoon feeding it to him. If he's ready for the playoffs its a massive win for McDaniels. If he's not ready until next year though so be it. Not everyone in the NFL becomes a star overnight in any system, McDaniels is taking a more MLB-like approach, giving Hillis time to develop before asking much of him.

Once again Derk nails it.

I am so glad you post here Derk, you take the edge off all the idiots around here now.

Popps
12-06-2009, 02:11 PM
exactly. i think now we can see that buck and moreno have a bit more upside, but hillis needs to be used more than he is.

I'm sure that when Hillis does what he should do, he'll earn more carries... just like every other player on our team.

Peyton is not immune from having to execute and know his assignments just because he's talented. As our 22 starters. They earned their jobs.

When Peyton earns carries, I expect he'll make the most of them. Until then, he's a non-issue.

baja
12-06-2009, 02:12 PM
Next time Moreno carries the ball, I suggest you watch with your eyes open.

Can I have an Amen.

Archer81
12-06-2009, 02:13 PM
Broncos ran for 250 yards today...it was beautiful to watch.


:Broncos:

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 02:13 PM
Explain that to me, would you?
I want conclusive evidence that Hillis is a retard. like you're pretty much saying.

I want prove that Hillis is not the guy for the entire game.

Again, no matter what crap you guys constantly keep bringing up, I'm yet to see any of that in Hillis performance on the field.

The first thing I was doing the minute I saw him on the field was to see if he was going to be mentally confused, rusty or anything that would remotely suggest that all this BS I keep hearing has any merits.

Guess what?
I didn't see it, and neither did YOU!

You know how we know he's not real bright? Because last year with Shanahan he came right out and said that the reason he wasn't playing much early in the season is because he was having a hard time with the plays and blocking assignments.

You think he picked up an even more complex offense right off the bat? No, the guy just isn't that bright. But you give him time and he can get it and become a very valuable asset to the team.

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:14 PM
I predicted 40 extra pages if Hillis played. Well thats 2 pages down, only 38 more to go :)

And you know why?
Because we told you so
Because we knew that Hillis would do us right.
Because we knew Hillis would shut their pipe hole up
Because Hillis was going to perform the only way he knows how
Because the guy is flat out a force on the field to be reckoned with...

epicSocialism4tw
12-06-2009, 02:15 PM
I'm sure that when Hillis does what he should do, he'll earn more carries... just like every other player on our team.

Peyton is not immune from having to execute and know his assignments just because he's talented. As our 22 starters. They earned their jobs.

When Peyton earns carries, I expect he'll make the most of them. Until then, he's a non-issue.

Did Lamont Jordan "earn" carries?

Hillis should be getting everything that Buckhalter and Moreno do not.

Archer81
12-06-2009, 02:15 PM
And you know why?
Because we told you so
Because we knew that Hillis would do us right.
Because we knew Hillis would shut their pipe hole up
Because Hillis was going to perform the only way he knows how
Because the guy is flat out a force on the field to be reckoned with...


You dating Hillis or what?


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 02:18 PM
Did Lamont Jordan "earn" carries?

Hillis should be getting everything that Buckhalter and Moreno do not.

To be fair, when was the last time Jordan got a meaningful carry in non-garbage time?

errand
12-06-2009, 02:18 PM
I mean, ok... Whatever. I think it's silly to think that a five tool player like Hillis can't be used to help our team win,

you keep tossing this "five tool" player line out implying that he's better than any other RB we have.

Moreno can block, run with power, catch passes, is pretty freaking agile himself, and can break off a long run, etc....so what tools does Hillis possess that these other RB's don't?

brncs_fan
12-06-2009, 02:19 PM
And you know why?
Because we told you so
Because we knew that Hillis would do us right.
Because we knew Hillis would shut their pipe hole up
Because Hillis was going to perform the only way he knows how
Because the guy is flat out a force on the field to be reckoned with...

I have to say I was impressed with the way that he parted the KC defenders with a wave of his wand and passed right through them.

slyinky
12-06-2009, 02:19 PM
Explain that to me, would you?
I want conclusive evidence that Hillis is a retard. like you're pretty much saying.

I want prove that Hillis is not the guy for the entire game.

Again, no matter what crap you guys constantly keep bringing up, I'm yet to see any of that in Hillis performance on the field.

The first thing I was doing the minute I saw him on the field was to see if he was going to be mentally confused, rusty or anything that would remotely suggest that all this BS I keep hearing has any merits.

Guess what?
I didn't see it, and neither did YOU!

McDaniels apparently doesn't think so:

"(He's) kind of an older-school guy," McDaniels said. "Physical fits him, tough fits him, smart, plays a lot of positions on our team."

Drek
12-06-2009, 02:20 PM
I don't base my arguments on who is arguing with or against me, but rather what the data will support. I think that the data more than supports the idea that Hillis should be given more opportunities to help this team win.

So 7 carries in garbage time outweighs the several games to start the season where Hillis was a **** up waiting to happen? And therefore the data more than supports Hillis getting more touches?

Talk about small sample size.

Hillis is ready when McDaniels says he's ready. He's still here so McDaniels hasn't given up on him by any stretch. He got garbage time carries over LaMont Jordan today, another good sign. But the viewpoint that he should have been part of the game plan all season long despite ****ting his pants with regularity to start the year just doesn't hold water.

Maybe McDaniels feels Hillis is now mentally prepared to fulfill at least some useful portion of what we ask of him. But that doesn't change him obviously not being prepared from the start of the season, and therefore losing touches.

I'm a big Hillis fan but the guy needed the NFL equivalent of a rehab assignment down in AAA. McDaniels gave him that. Hopefully this is a sign that he's now ready to contribute, but I'd be worried about working him in too fast and destroying all the positive work they've likely been working on behind the scenes.

Dedhed
12-06-2009, 02:21 PM
47 yards in 7 carries. 6.7 avg. Moreno 86 yards in 21 carries 4.1 avg
It takes a man to admit you're wrong.
That's why I lost all respect for you.
Grow some balls and eat crow, bud.
Hillis proved today he's the better back.
What else and in what manner you want to be proven wrong?

Hills doesn't do his talking M-F, he does his talking on Sundays by kicking ass on the field. That's all the guy does!

He clearly doesn't do his talking M-F, as in when the team is practicing. If he did, he'd be in there.

Hillis gaining 6.7 a carry against a beaten and tired defense doesn't impress me nearly as much as what Moreno and Buckhalter did all game. That includes pass protection, btw something that Hillis struggles mightily with.

I don't hear anyone saying Hillis can't contribute, but your argument is just day one stupid.

Taco John
12-06-2009, 02:22 PM
you keep tossing this "five tool" player line out implying that he's better than any other RB we have.



Five tools:
Lead blocking
Pass Catching
Short Yardage/Goal line
Open Field runner
Between the tackles bruiser

The only implication is that he has five tools, and that he should be given more opportunities to use those tools to help us win. Whatever the reason he's been on the bench, Josh needs to coach him up and get him on the field. He's far too valuable to be left on the sidelines in street clothes.

errand
12-06-2009, 02:22 PM
Whats his career longest run got to do with me finding humor in the length of this thread? I wasnt bashing Moreno.

It was my attempt at finding humor that despite having the longer run from scrimmage, and tons more talent, Moreno cannot generate a 500 post thread. Sorry if you took it wrong....

Taco John
12-06-2009, 02:23 PM
So 7 carries in garbage time outweighs the several games to start the season where Hillis was a **** up waiting to happen?

I think this is highly overstated. Prior to this game, Hillis has touched the ball 4 times. In that time, Moreno and Buckhalter have had how many fumbles between them? Like nine isn't it?

mhgaffney
12-06-2009, 02:25 PM
Those who say Hillis will be gone next year are nuts.

baja
12-06-2009, 02:26 PM
For what it's worth, I think using Hillis in combination with Moreno would lead Moreno to break much bigger gains. Hillis should be used as a sledge hammer, and Moreno as the jail breaker.

Hillis was very very impressive but I thought Buck had the best game of our three backs today.

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:26 PM
You know how we know he's not real bright? Because last year with Shanahan he came right out and said that the reason he wasn't playing much early in the season is because he was having a hard time with the plays and blocking assignments.
You think he picked up an even more complex offense right off the bat? No, the guy just isn't that bright. But you give him time and he can get it and become a very valuable asset to the team.

I understand that bud.
Tht's nothing new there.
A lot of rookies coming into the NFL would face that problem. Robert Ayers did, Cutler did, Orton did this year with McDaniels offense.
That's not a clear indicator of a player mental deficiencies.
Cutler still can't read defenses after 4 years in the league to save his life. Is he a retard?

What I'm saying is that despite all of these rumors, I don't see Hillis recieving any one-on-one counseling or coaching to bring him up to speed.
I don't see performance issues on the field by Hillis not even a sliver of a doubt to suggest or even suspect that the guy has issues picking up this offesne.
The most compelling evidence in my mind that what Popps wants to pass as fact is BS, is the fact that up until today, Hillis had only carried the ball 4 times in 6 games. That's not even enough playing time to make a fair assessment on whether or not a player understands the system. It is NOT

He's been in my opinion a victim of the numbers game.
Moreno and Buckhalter were going to be McDaniles 1-2 punch. Nobody was going to change that.
To say otherwise and come up with ridiculous explanations to prove otherwise is what I have problem digesting and want people to prove it.

ro_50
12-06-2009, 02:26 PM
Hillis is a determined back and may get some touches but its hard when Buck and Moreno are running the way they are.

There's not enough carries to keep 3 RBS happy.

errand
12-06-2009, 02:26 PM
Thank you Hillis for showing and proving me right.
You're a stud!!!

"Oh, there they go...every damn time I start talking about Bronco RB's, a white man gotta pull Peyton Hillis out their ass...."

He did well, considering Buck and Moreno softened them up for him....wow, garbage time carries generating such love.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 02:26 PM
Those who say Hillis will be gone next year are nuts.

The only people saying he'll be gone next year are the ones that want him to be released or traded so they'll have a new team to root for.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 02:28 PM
"Oh, there they go...every damn time I start talking about Bronco RB's, a white man gotta pull Peyton Hillis out their ass...."


Well played sir.

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errand
12-06-2009, 02:28 PM
Josh has embarassingly left that on the bench all season long. Everyone on the field knew who the ball was going to, and they still couldn't stop him.

Sorry Josh. I like you, but just like I thought Shanahan was a fool for starting a back-up center as a starting left tackle, I think you've been a fool for not managing to get this five tool player onto the field and into your offense.

You clowns do realize the Chiefs had already surrendered over 220 yards on the ground by the time Hillis got in right? Kind of like the back-up QB throwing for 100 yards in the 4th qtr of a 44-7 loss....

Archer81
12-06-2009, 02:29 PM
I understand that bud.
Tht's nothing new there.
A lot of rookies coming into the NFL would face that problem. Robert Ayers did, Cutler did, Orton did this year with McDaniels offense.
That's not a clear indicator of a player mental deficiencies.
Cutler still can't read defenses after 4 years in the league to save his life. Is he a retard?

What I'm saying is that despite all of these rumors, I don't see Hillis recieving any one-on-one counseling or coaching to bring him up to speed.
I don't see performance issues on the field by Hillis not even a sliver of a doubt to suggest or even suspect that the guy has issues picking up this offesne.
The most compelling evidence in my mind that what Popps wants to pass as fact is BS, is the fact that up until today, Hillis had only carried the ball 4 times in 6 games. That's not even enough playing time to make a fair assessment on whether or not a player understands the system. It is NOT

He's been in my opinion a victim of the numbers game.
Moreno and Buckhalter were going to be McDaniles 1-2 punch. Nobody was going to change that.
To say otherwise and come up with ridiculous explanations to prove otherwise is what I have problem digesting and want people to prove it.


You are having joygasms because Hillis got 7 carries to run the game out. He moved the chains, but we know he can do that. So whatever point you are trying to make about Hillis needing to start over Moreno is just silly. Its not going to happen sans injuries to Buckhalter and Moreno.

:Broncos:

Taco John
12-06-2009, 02:29 PM
Hillis was very very impressive but I thought Buck had the best game of our three backs today.

I did too. He was very quick to hit the holes out there today, and ran like hell when he could get some space.

broncolife
12-06-2009, 02:31 PM
It was my attempt at finding humor that despite having the longer run from scrimmage, and tons more talent, Moreno cannot generate a 500 post thread. Sorry if you took it wrong....

Thats what I thought at first but then I read it a second time and thought maybe you were thinking I was bashing him. I guess I should have went with my frist instinct and said nothing. :)

errand
12-06-2009, 02:32 PM
Yeah, keep him on the bench. Let's keep Moreno in there until he gets his 100 yard sometime this year!



You do realize that if Buckhalter and Moreno weren't basically splitting carries, either one of them would be close to 1000 yards right now.

BTW...the best players had to take a seat so Hillis could get his first carry....

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:33 PM
So 7 carries in garbage time outweighs the several games to start the season where Hillis was a **** up waiting to happen? And therefore the data more than supports Hillis getting more touches?

Talk about small sample size.

Hillis is ready when McDaniels says he's ready. He's still here so McDaniels hasn't given up on him by any stretch. He got garbage time carries over LaMont Jordan today, another good sign. But the viewpoint that he should have been part of the game plan all season long despite ****ting his pants with regularity to start the year just doesn't hold water.



This is where you're missing the point.
You have seen Hillis play last year, right?
You saw him play today, right?
So, whether he gets 7 carries in garbage time like you put it, or meaningful playing time carries doesn't it still show Hillis playing abilities?
Didn't he show the kind of player he is and a sight of relieve that thanks God the guy has not lost his passion for playing the game?

Had he looked confused out there or had he fumbled the ball, would you be justifying his fumbles as something that happened during garbage time?
I thought so...

fontaine
12-06-2009, 02:33 PM
why do people have to belittle one back over another?

Look Hillis did come in at garbage time against a tired defense but does that negate the FACT that he was running roughshod OVER tacklers? Does it take away from the FACT that two defenders had him cornered at the line of scrimmage and he literally man handled them backwards for 11 YARDS?

Hillis did extremely well, but so did Moreno and Buckhalter. It's a GOOD problem to have.

I will say though that Moreno was tripped up a few too many times too easily. The guy needs get his footing right but it's only a matter of time.

The REAL studs here are the OL that pretty much man handled the KC DL.

Drek
12-06-2009, 02:34 PM
Five tools:
Lead blocking
Pass Catching
Short Yardage/Goal line
Open Field runner
Between the tackles bruiser

The only implication is that he has five tools, and that he should be given more opportunities to use those tools to help us win.
Those are pretty tailor made "tools" for Hillis, FYI.

For an NFL RB the five tools should be:
speed
power
hands (ball protection and catching)
field awareness (lane selection, pass pro pick up, route running, etc.)
blocking technique (pass pro, lead blocking, down field blocking on screens)

Hillis has the natural athleticism to possess all of those, sure. But to this point he hasn't shown much to prove #4. I think he will given time.

Whatever the reason he's been on the bench, Josh needs to coach him up and get him on the field. He's far too valuable to be left on the sidelines in street clothes.
I'd guess that is what he's been doing. If he wasn't then he would've just cut Hillis and brought someone else in who could contribute right away.

I think this is highly overstated. Prior to this game, Hillis has touched the ball 4 times. In that time, Moreno and Buckhalter have had how many fumbles between them? Like nine isn't it?

He didn't get more than 4 touches because he was screwing up in the other facets of the game. You can't put a fraction of a player on the field and expect good teams not to exploit him.

errand
12-06-2009, 02:35 PM
Finally we've got some smash mouth football going on in our offense!

I'm really looking forward to seeing how we match up against Indianapolis next week. I really think that if we add Hillis in there more, we could walk out of there with a W. I'm very pumped for this next game.

Umm, we already had rushed for 220 yards when Hillis got in the game clown...the damage had already been done.

You're the only guy I know who crows about sloppy seconds....

Bronx33
12-06-2009, 02:35 PM
Hillis played good with the time he was given but sadly just to downplay the good work he did today some say it was in garbage time vs a crappy D ( give the guy some credit for christ sakes) vs bagging and looking for any excuse you can to hate on the guy i have never seen people go out of their way to hate on a guy so much since nate webster. Just give hillis some reps and see if he can contribute and thats all i saw him do today ( contribute) thats not a bad thing in my book.

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 02:35 PM
I understand that bud.
Tht's nothing new there.
A lot of rookies coming into the NFL would face that problem. Robert Ayers did, Cutler did, Orton did this year with McDaniels offense.
That's not a clear indicator of a player mental deficiencies.
Cutler still can't read defenses after 4 years in the league to save his life. Is he a retard?

What I'm saying is that despite all of these rumors, I don't see Hillis recieving any one-on-one counseling or coaching to bring him up to speed.
I don't see performance issues on the field by Hillis not even a sliver of a doubt to suggest or even suspect that the guy has issues picking up this offesne.
The most compelling evidence in my mind that what Popps wants to pass as fact is BS, is the fact that up until today, Hillis had only carried the ball 4 times in 6 games. That's not even enough playing time to make a fair assessment on whether or not a player understands the system. It is NOT

He's been in my opinion a victim of the numbers game.
Moreno and Buckhalter were going to be McDaniles 1-2 punch. Nobody was going to change that.
To say otherwise and come up with ridiculous explanations to prove otherwise is what I have problem digesting and want people to prove it.

Point one.
Yes.

Point two.
Are you at practice to see if he's getting one on one coaching?
Watch the games from earlier in the season. It's pretty easy to see him ****ing up a lot. Missing blocks etc.

Being a RB is not all about running the ****ing ball. Especially in this offense.

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:37 PM
You do realize that if Buckhalter and Moreno weren't basically splitting carries, either one of them would be close to 1000 yards right now.

BTW...the best players had to take a seat so Hillis could get his first carry....

I do realize that. The problem is, Moreno is supposed to be the primary ball carrier, is he not?

To tell you the truth, I rather see a combination of C-Buck and Hillis as our 1-2 punch than having Moreno in there.
Moreno can bring contribution to our game, but Hillis will change the game in a lot more ways than Moreno can, or has so far shown...

errand
12-06-2009, 02:39 PM
Hills doesn't do his talking M-F, he does his talking on Sundays by kicking ass on the field. That's all the guy does!

Ok, so then what's your beef with McDaniels then?

You just said that Hillis doesn't perform M-F, he does it on Sunday.....so your problem doesn't lie with McDaniels it lies with the poor work ethic/practice sessions of one Peyton Hillis.

I guess you never though that perhaps if he did his talking on M-F, he'd be playing more on Sundays?

Drek
12-06-2009, 02:40 PM
This is where you're missing the point.
You have seen Hillis play last year, right?
You saw him play today, right?
So, whether he gets 7 carries in garbage time like you put it, or meaningful playing time carries doesn't it still show Hillis playing abilities?
Didn't he show the kind of player he is and a sight of relieve that thanks God the guy has not lost his passion for playing the game?

Had he looked confused out there or had he fumbled the ball, would you be justifying his fumbles as something that happened during garbage time?
I thought so...

I'll respond because apparently this is the best you can scrape together for a valid football take.

What did Hillis just show us today that says he can be in on a play that doesn't involve him getting a hand off and running up the gut?

Nothing.

What do good teams do when you bring someone in who is that one dimensional?

Blow your play up.

We bring Hillis in as of now and a good defense will plug the middle giving him nowhere to go. He'll get brought down for little to no yardage. That is how every team will currently attack our offense if Hillis is lined up as the primary back.

Now when Hillis is ready to play a role in pass pro or running a route as a receiver we can use that against teams, letting them focus on Hillis' running and hit them for big plays in the passing game.

One dimensional players don't belong on a football field in the NFL. They especially don't belong in the backfield with an offensive scheme like ours. When Hillis is ready for more than just downhill running he'll be an explosive weapon, but until then he's too big of a risk when Moreno is a more complete back.

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:43 PM
Despite not being a starter last year, despite his already short season being abruptly finished by an injury, did you guys hear that Hillis was our leading rusher last year?
Yeah, go ahead and insult my intelligence by explaining how that happened without giving the guy his due credits

frerottenextelway
12-06-2009, 02:43 PM
I'll respond because apparently this is the best you can scrape together for a valid football take.

What did Hillis just show us today that says he can be in on a play that doesn't involve him getting a hand off and running up the gut?

Nothing.

What do good teams do when you bring someone in who is that one dimensional?

Blow your play up.

We bring Hillis in as of now and a good defense will plug the middle giving him nowhere to go. He'll get brought down for little to no yardage. That is how every team will currently attack our offense if Hillis is lined up as the primary back.

Now when Hillis is ready to play a role in pass pro or running a route as a receiver we can use that against teams, letting them focus on Hillis' running and hit them for big plays in the passing game.

One dimensional players don't belong on a football field in the NFL. They especially don't belong in the backfield with an offensive scheme like ours. When Hillis is ready for more than just downhill running he'll be an explosive weapon, but until then he's too big of a risk when Moreno is a more complete back.

Since when can't Hillis pass block (he was a FB after all) or run a route? Those are two of his biggest strengths.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 02:43 PM
I do realize that. The problem is, Moreno is supposed to be the primary ball carrier, is he not?


Not necessarily.

Varies week to week based on several factors: opponent, defense being run, effectiveness of he and Buck, score, etc.

errand
12-06-2009, 02:44 PM
I disagree. I think that's BS. Averages are about looking at the big picture, which includes the big runs. His stats weren't tainted. He earned them.

You're right...he earned every yard he got today. Now if he could get off his ass and earn some more playing time....

bombay
12-06-2009, 02:45 PM
Hillis looked good today. I'd like to see him get more consistant opportunities.

Nice to know he's there if Buck or Knowshon have physical problems, as Buck generally has had.

Bronx33
12-06-2009, 02:46 PM
You're right...he earned every yard he got today. Now if he could get off his ass and earn some more playing time....

Is hillis sitting in a lawn chair during practice? :P

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 02:46 PM
Despite not being a starter last year, despite his already short season being abruptly finished by an injury, did you guys hear that Hillis was our leading rusher last year?
Yeah, go ahead and insult my intelligence by explaining how that happened without giving the guy his due credits

Ummmm, it's pretty easy to explain actually. Name another RB that started more games than him. Pretty tough NOT to be the leading rusher when you carry it more than the other guys.

And the part in bold above is wrong.

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 02:47 PM
Despite not being a starter last year, despite his already short season being abruptly finished by an injury, did you guys hear that Hillis was our leading rusher last year?
Yeah, go ahead and insult my intelligence by explaining how that happened without giving the guy his due credits

Dude, ever RB finished the year abruptly with an injury last year. He just lasted the longest.

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Since when can't Hillis pass block (he was a FB after all) or run a route? Those are two of his biggest strengths.

He can. He's just been out of position a lot. Until he gets that McDaniels won't risk having him in.

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Ok, so then what's your beef with McDaniels then?

You just said that Hillis doesn't perform M-F, he does it on Sunday.....so your problem doesn't lie with McDaniels it lies with the poor work ethic/practice sessions of one Peyton Hillis.

I guess you never though that perhaps if he did his talking on M-F, he'd be playing more on Sundays?What I meant to say by doing his talking M-F is to allude to the comments that the guy has poor practice habits.
Another unproven rumor.
There are guys that are not great during practice but perfom better during the game on Sundays.
I think it was Rod Smith that once said that despite his hard working ethics, he was never a good practice guy. Don't quote me on that, but I'm sure I've heard something within those lines before. Not, I'm not saying Smith had bad practice habits at all.

slyinky
12-06-2009, 02:51 PM
Seems to me that he proved to be the same RB we saw last year. None of those runs he made were wide open holes, he just ran over defenders.

Were these plays in "garbage" time last year?
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7K9cSqlca4w&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7K9cSqlca4w&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

errand
12-06-2009, 02:52 PM
lol @ Hillis proving he's the better back in garbage time.

That's a bit reaching...

Fresh running back into a game with worn out defenders?

Man GTFOH...

I know right? I'm guessing the Chris Simms Lover parade will be out in full force saying he didn't throw an INT today...and Orton did.

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:53 PM
Dude, ever RB finished the year abruptly with an injury last year. He just lasted the longest.Correct, but he still was secong in the team in carries and to finish 1st in yardage and 1st in TD's is what you need to acknowledge and quit dancing around the subject by refusing to recognize Hillis talents and what he could've brought to this offense had they played him more this season, and proven by what he did today...

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:56 PM
Seems to me that he proved to be the same RB we saw last year. None of those runs he made were wide open holes, he just ran over defenders.

Were these plays in "garbage" time last year?
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7K9cSqlca4w&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7K9cSqlca4w&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>That's precisely my point. Garbage time or not, the guy is a frakin' beast. Something that Moreno is not even close to be.
People want to wish Moreno be more that he really is.
He may be a better runner next year, Hillis proved he's the better runner not only in his first season, but today as well...

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 02:56 PM
and proven by what he did today...

Please.

What did all those backups that ran wild on Denver in 4th quarter garbage time during their losing streak prove? NOTHING. Have any of those teams changed their starters based solely off those isolated incidents? Nope. Why? Cause a few carries against a dog-tired unit that couldn't stop the starters is no measure of anything.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 02:57 PM
That's precisely my point. Garbage time or not, the guy is a frakin' beast. Something that Moreno is not even close to be.
People want to wish Moreno be more that he really is.
He may be a better runner next year, Hillis proved he's the better runner not only in his first season, but today as well...

Keep saying this enough and maybe even you will believe it.

strafen
12-06-2009, 02:58 PM
Seems to me that he proved to be the same RB we saw last year. None of those runs he made were wide open holes, he just ran over defenders.

Were these plays in "garbage" time last year?
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7K9cSqlca4w&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7K9cSqlca4w&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>That's an awesome video.
The guy is a freak. Moreno supporters will watch that video with a frown on their faces wishing Moreno can be half the runner Hillis is.
Nuff said!

Oh, isn't that the way he played like today?
Hmm? Yes, he did! 8'):thumbsup:

errand
12-06-2009, 02:58 PM
Did Lamont Jordan "earn" carries?



LaMont Jordan has proven to be a valuable asset to every team he's been on...and when thrust into the starter's role, he's produced as well. I've posted his career stats in this thread, he's earned the carries he's been given by doing his job.

errand
12-06-2009, 02:59 PM
You dating Hillis or what?


:Broncos:

...well, if he isn't I'm sure he's jerking off to the Fathead poster of Hillis he's got hanging on his wall

strafen
12-06-2009, 03:00 PM
Keep saying this enough and maybe even you will believe it.

Didn't you see it today?
Really, what game did you watch today?
What has Moreno done this season that has wowed you or me?
Click the video just above and enjoy...

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 03:00 PM
That's an awesome video.

Attach it again. Maybe somebody missed it the first three times it appeared here.

McDaniels knows more than you, dude, sorry.

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 03:01 PM
Correct, but he still was secong in the team in carries and to finish 1st in yardage and 1st in TD's is what you need to acknowledge and quit dancing around the subject by refusing to recognize Hillis talents and what he could've brought to this offense had they played him more this season, and proven by what he did today...

I'm not denying his talents. I WANT HIM TO PLAY MORE. He's not there mentally or McDaniels would have him playing more. It's that simple.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 03:01 PM
Didn't you see it today?
Really, what game did you watch today?
What has Moreno done this season that has wowed you or me?
Click the video just above and enjoy...

I know at least one guy that doesn't have NFL Network. Please see carry #1:

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UsO3UuaUt6k&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UsO3UuaUt6k&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

strafen
12-06-2009, 03:03 PM
I know at least one guy that doesn't have NFL Network.The NFL Network?
The same network people here were trashing for ridiculing our team for our off-season moves?
The same Network that is now eating crow?

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 03:05 PM
The NFL Network?
The same network people here were trashing for ridiculing our team for our off-season moves?
The same Network that is now eating crow?

What does any of this have to do with anything? See MY clip above (of the game that was aired on NFL Network....for those slower individuals - ie YOU).

strafen
12-06-2009, 03:06 PM
I know at least one guy that doesn't have NFL Network. Please see carry #1:

<EMBED height=340 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=560 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/UsO3UuaUt6k&hl=en_US&fs=1& allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>
Email me a video of Moreno when you get a compilation highlight video of his accomplishments against more than one team

Hey. This season, he may have two teams to make that video highlight so far.

Beantown Bronco
12-06-2009, 03:07 PM
Email me a video of Moreno when you get a compilation highlight video of his accomplishments against more than one team

Changing your criteria I see.

3 time offensive rookie of the year. He's done it all season long. Sorry.

yerner
12-06-2009, 03:07 PM
I just think people need to relax. I imagine Hillis is going to play a important part in a few games this season in the near future. And he will be rested and ready.

snowspot66
12-06-2009, 03:07 PM
Email me a video of Moreno when you get a compilation highlight video of his accomplishments against more than one team

Hey. This season, he may have two teams to make that video highlight so far.

Why? It's more impressive against one team. Tatum Bell can have an awesome highlight reel if you have lots of games to pick from.

errand
12-06-2009, 03:12 PM
Five tools:
Lead blocking
Pass Catching
Short Yardage/Goal line
Open Field runner
Between the tackles bruiser



He can't be that great of a lead blocker, if he were, he'd be the starting FB.

I mean, how many carries does Larsen have? ZERO...none. So it would appear to me he's our starting FB because he does something well, and since he also has ZERO catches as well...that again suggests he's the starter for one, and only one reason...he is a very good at lead blocking.

And again, point out the skill on the list that Hillis does better than Buckhalter, and/or Moreno.

You cannot seriously think that Hillis is better in the open field than either of them....

You cannot seriously think that he's a better pass catcher than them....

You cannot seriously think that he's better than they are in short yardage situations (someone posted stats, or data as you like to call it, that proved otherwise)

You cannot seriously think that he's a better between the tackles runner either....

He might be able to some things just as well...or almost as well...but he's no more a 5 tool player than Moreno...who can do all of the above and break off the long run, and pass protect too.

errand
12-06-2009, 03:15 PM
Those who say Hillis will be gone next year are nuts.

I agree...but so are those who think he's a 5 tool player or should be starting, and/or getting more carries than Buckhalter, or Moreno

Paladin
12-06-2009, 03:19 PM
Well, h3ll. The team does well and several players do well, and a whole boat load of whiners come along just to crap on everything.

Too bad. Broncos are 8-4.

Atwater His Ass
12-06-2009, 03:22 PM
I love this thread. Guy gets some garbage time against a demoralized defense.

errand
12-06-2009, 03:36 PM
Despite not being a starter last year, despite his already short season being abruptly finished by an injury, did you guys hear that Hillis was our leading rusher last year?
Yeah, go ahead and insult my intelligence by explaining how that happened without giving the guy his due credits

Well to be honest the Broncos ran the ball pretty well last season...regardless of who we put in the game. We finished 12th in the NFL and averaged 4.8 yards per attempt.

Hillis 68-343-5.0-5 TD's

Pittman 76-320-4.2-4 TD's

Young 61-303-5.0-1 TD's

Bell 44-249-5.7-2 TD's

Hall 35-144-4.1-0 TD's

Pope 17-130-7.6-0 TD's

Torain 15-69-4.6-1 TD's

I fail to see how he stands out based on last season's numbers...he got more carries than all but Pittman, so he should have more yards, right?

He averaged 5 yards per pop...but c'mon he didn't average any more than Young did, and Bell averaged almost a yard more while Pope averaged almost 3 yards more per carry!

Yeah, I guess rushing for less than 350 yards in a huge thing to you...but when you look at the team objectively...he didn't put up that great of numbers...at least no better than any other Broncos RB did last year.

errand
12-06-2009, 03:39 PM
Is hillis sitting in a lawn chair during practice? :P

Well, I have no idea what he's doing in practice...and neither does TJ, or dragster....what I do know is he's not playing a heck of alot, and he's not the most talented RB on our roster.

errand
12-06-2009, 03:44 PM
What I meant to say by doing his talking M-F is to allude to the comments that the guy has poor practice habits.
Another unproven rumor.
There are guys that are not great during practice but perfom better during the game on Sundays.
I think it was Rod Smith that once said that despite his hard working ethics, he was never a good practice guy. Don't quote me on that, but I'm sure I've heard something within those lines before. Not, I'm not saying Smith had bad practice habits at all.

So why are bitching if McDaniels doesn't play him?

If he cannot get the job done when nothing is at stake, what would lead him to believe he could when something was at stake?

broncolife
12-06-2009, 03:47 PM
Looks errand is making a move on popps post lead on this thread

errand
12-06-2009, 03:49 PM
The NFL Network?
The same network people here were trashing for ridiculing our team for our off-season moves?
The same Network that is now eating crow?

...so the video of Moreno should be tossed out?

baja
12-06-2009, 03:54 PM
I was wondering why Buckhalter didn't get more carries, he was tearing it up today.

Bronx33
12-06-2009, 03:58 PM
I was wondering why Buckhalter didn't get more carries, he was tearing it up today.

It looks like MCD favors mereno over bucky but buck did alot more with his 12 carries than mereno did in 21 attempts for sure.

azbroncfan
12-06-2009, 04:06 PM
Without reading the posts after the game I am going to take a guess that the Hillis homer's here want him in the HOF after he looked pretty good against a wore out defense that had already quit on the team. On a side note Ty Jackson was terrible today getting blown 5 plus yards downfield consistently.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 04:20 PM
So why are b****ing if McDaniels doesn't play him?

If he cannot get the job done when nothing is at stake, what would lead him to believe he could when something was at stake?

Shhhhhhhhh.....calm down O'Brite One! Let's just say McD has been handed a team with so many offensive weapons, he just can't seem to make up his mind who to play!!;D

We all know after todays game.....had Hillis been apart of the first team offense from week 1, and had 5-10 running plays and 5-10 "Orton" patented "Dinks, Dunks and screen passes; only then would you be convince how talented Hillis truly is.

Oh well you have 4 weeks to continue how mediocre Hillis is. And Hillis has 4 games left (if given the opportunities) to show you how WRONG you were about Hillis's capabilities.

Archer81
12-06-2009, 04:23 PM
Shhhhhhhhh.....calm down O'Brite One! Let's just say McD has been handed a team with so many offensive weapons, he just can't seem to make up his mind who to play!!;D

We all know after todays game.....had Hillis been apart of the first team offense from week 1, and had 5-10 running plays and 5-10 "Orton" patented "Dinks, Dunks and screen passes; only then would you be convince how talented Hillis truly is.

Oh well you have 4 weeks to continue how mediocre Hillis is. And Hillis has 4 games left (if given the opportunities) to show you how WRONG you were about Hillis's capabilities.


No one is saying Hillis is mediocre. He is not getting the offense or his assignments, running the ball up the middle 7 straight times isnt anything more that the Broncos running the clock out with their backups in. Settle down sparky.

:Broncos:

rastaman
12-06-2009, 04:26 PM
Without reading the posts after the game I am going to take a guess that the Hillis homer's here want him in the HOF after he looked pretty good against a wore out defense that had already quit on the team. On a side note Ty Jackson was terrible today getting blown 5 plus yards downfield consistently.

Oh drama Queen! Once again you proved you have no common sense. No one said Hillis was headed for the HOF except for your Dumb Azz!

The Hillis homers just wanted Peyton out on the field from week 1. McD should have given Hillis 5-10 rushings attempts and had 5-10 to passes thrown to him out of the back field.

See! Hillis doesn't ask for much......he just wants a chance to show what he can do on Sunday's with the first team offense.:peace:

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

rastaman
12-06-2009, 04:30 PM
No one is saying Hillis is mediocre. He is not getting the offense or his assignments, running the ball up the middle 7 straight times isnt anything more that the Broncos running the clock out with their backups in. Settle down sparky.

:Broncos:

Hey Spanky....go back and read some of the postings from Popps and Errand. They had Peyton listed as border line retarded, slow, lazy and a bad PRACTICE player as to why McD wasn't allowing him to play with the first team offense.

Oh well, hopefully with the remaining 4 games McD will give Peyton at least 7-10 touches (both running and receiving) with the first team offense.

Archer81
12-06-2009, 04:30 PM
Shhhhhhhhh.....calm down O'Brite One! .


Despite what you see on a lite-brite box, its BRIGHT.

bright –adjective
1. radiating or reflecting light; luminous; shining: The bright coins shone in the gloom.
2. filled with light: The room was bright with sunshine.
3. vivid or brilliant: a bright red dress; bright passages of prose.
4. quick-witted or intelligent: They gave promotions to bright employees.
5. clever or witty, as a remark: Bright comments enlivened the conversation.
6. animated; lively; cheerful: a bright and happy child; a bird's bright song.
7. characterized by happiness or gladness: All the world seems bright and gay.
8. favorable or auspicious: bright prospects for the future.
9. radiant or splendid: the bright pageantry of court.
10. illustrious or glorious, as an era: the bright days of the Renaissance.
11. clear or translucent, as liquid: The bright water trickled through his fingers.
12. having a glossy, glazed, or polished finish.
13. intensely clear and vibrant in tone or quality; clear and sharp in sound: a bright singing voice.


:Broncos:

Archer81
12-06-2009, 04:34 PM
Hey Spanky....go back and read some of the postings from Popps and Errand. They had Peyton listed as border line retarded, slow, lazy and a bad PRACTICE player as to why McD wasn't allowing him to play with the first team offense.

Oh well, hopefully with the remaining 4 games McD will give Peyton at least 7-10 touches (both running and receiving) with the first team offense.


You are unbelievably stupid. Popps or Errand do not question Peyton's physical ability, but his mental ability to do what his job requires for this team. What is so difficult about this? Some players take longer to adjust then others to new offensive schemes; and before you launch into a ridiculous and torturous side argument, let me remind you that even Shanahan did not start Peyton until he had no other options. This means that the dude has problems picking up the offense and executing it. Does this help or do I need to draw some flash cards and email them to you?


:Broncos:

strafen
12-06-2009, 04:36 PM
Changing your criteria I see.

3 time offensive rookie of the year. He's done it all season long. Sorry.That's the equivalent of garbage yards and playing time if you asked me.
My criteria is impacting the game by making plays.
So far Moreno has had a good game against the Giants and a decent game today against arguably a real bad team, nevertheless it was a division rival game.

I don't see in Moreno anything special. I haven't even seen in him the potential to even break a long one, have you?

Those are the qualities you look in a RB. A game breaker potential. A guy that can change the outcome of the game in any given play and more important when you need one.
Moreno does not have that.
So far he's been an average runner at best.

azbroncfan
12-06-2009, 04:48 PM
:

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

What do they say about people that live in glass house's? Seriously has there been a poster that has seemed more uneducated than yourself? You claim to be 50 plus but type like a 4 year old.

McDman
12-06-2009, 04:51 PM
Oh drama Queen! Once again you proved you have no common sense. No one said Hillis was headed for the HOF except for your Dumb Azz!

The Hillis homers just wanted Peyton out on the field from week 1. McD should have given Hillis 5-10 rushings attempts and had 5-10 to passes thrown to him out of the back field.

See! Hillis doesn't ask for much......he just wants a chance to show what he can do on Sunday's with the first team offense.:peace:

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

Even when I agree with you about a subject I still find you unbelievably annoying and childish.