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BMarsh615
11-24-2009, 01:04 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/sports/football/24fast.html?ref=todayspaper

An Ex-Quarterback’s Take on Cutler’s Struggles
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/23/sports/baseball/24fast1/articleLarge.jpg


As the rift between the Denver Broncos’ rookie coach, Josh McDaniels, and his star quarterback, Jay Cutler, widened last off-season, more than a few executives in the N.F.L. suggested that McDaniels should make nice with Cutler for the good of the team. But McDaniels, it became clear, had something else in mind, and now we know why.

Cutler, who was traded to the Chicago Bears in April for two first-round picks and quarterback Kyle Orton, was supposed to change the balance of power in the National Football Conference North and make the Bears instant Super Bowl candidates.
The balance of power has shifted all right, up to the Minnesota Vikings and their 40-year-old wonder, Brett Favre, who — can this really be happening? — may be having the best season of his indestructible career. The Vikings (9-1) are running away with the division, leaving Green Bay to scramble for a wild-card spot. Left in the dust are the Bears, who, after Sunday night’s 24-20 loss to Philadelphia, are 4-6 and all but eliminated from the postseason hunt. That gives them plenty of time to contemplate this question: what is wrong with Cutler?

Cutler has thrown a league-high 18 interceptions, the same number he threw all of last season for the Broncos. It is two more than the Jets rookie Mark Sanchez’s total, and he can be excused for the deer-in-the-headlights look. The interception that Cutler threw Sunday night was a tipped ball that killed a potential game-winning drive. That wasn’t Cutler’s fault, but a near interception earlier in the game — when he tried to gun a pass to Greg Olsen into triple coverage in the end zone — was. Even more troublesome was that Cutler overthrew three touch passes that seemed to be certain touchdowns if they were on the money.

Cutler’s lack of accuracy on Sunday night, and the 12 interceptions he has thrown in prime-time games, have been confounding. “He was never as good as everybody said he was,” the former quarterback Trent Dilfer, now an ESPN analyst, said Monday. “He has great talent and remarkable upside, but he’s a very average player.”

Cutler is coming off a season in which he threw for 4,526 yards. But Dilfer said that any quarterback playing in Denver last year, behind the game’s best offensive line, with Brandon Stokley and Eddie Royal to catch the ball and an offensive guru like Mike Shanahan calling the plays, should have been able to throw for 4,000 yards. None of those factors exist in what Dilfer calls Chicago’s antiquated offensive system. Dilfer said: “He’s a pick-and-stick passer: he doesn’t work through his progressions. He is locked in on his primary receiver and he lets it fly. He hardly ever gets to the No. 3 receiver and he very rarely even gets to No. 2.”

That has been a problem in particular in the red zone, where Cutler has thrown five interceptions this season. Finally, Dilfer said, Cutler’s mechanics cause him to fade as he throws the touch pass. Cutler’s knees, Dilfer said, face downfield on the touch pass, so that he looks like a guard shooting a fadeaway jumper. Instead, he should plant his left leg and follow through.

“He’s had so much statistical success, he’s never been broken,” Dilfer said. “Like big-time racehorses, you have to break them.”

Consider Cutler and the Bears’ season broken.

TonyR
11-24-2009, 01:08 PM
“He was never as good as everybody said he was,” the former quarterback Trent Dilfer, now an ESPN analyst, said Monday. “He has great talent and remarkable upside, but he’s a very average player.”


Well you don't say!

Bronx33
11-24-2009, 01:10 PM
Who the hell asks trent dilfer questions about talent? Hilarious!

bronco militia
11-24-2009, 01:11 PM
trent dilhole knows ****ty QB's!

bronco militia
11-24-2009, 01:12 PM
:clown:

SouthStndJunkie
11-24-2009, 01:13 PM
“He’s had so much statistical success, he’s never been broken,” Dilfer said. “Like big-time racehorses, you have to break them.”

Trent Dilfer's 113 TD to 129 INT ratio and status as a former 1st round pick indicates that he was never "broken" either.

NYBronco
11-24-2009, 01:14 PM
I hope Cutler is good enough to get the Broncos a top ten pick in next years draft. !Booya!

DomCasual
11-24-2009, 01:14 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/sports/football/24fast.html?ref=todayspaper

[SIZE=3]Cutler has thrown a league-high 18 interceptions, the same number he threw all of last season for the Broncos. It is two more than the Jets rookie Mark Sanchez’s total, and he can be excused for the deer-in-the-headlights look. [B]The interception that Cutler threw Sunday night was a tipped ball that killed a potential game-winning drive. That wasn’t Cutler’s fault, but a near interception earlier in the game — when he tried to gun a pass to Greg Olsen into triple coverage in the end zone — was. Even more troublesome was that Cutler overthrew three touch passes that seemed to be certain touchdowns if they were on the money.

I'm not sure why that wasn't his fault. It's not as if his own player let it go off his hands. It was tipped by a defender, to a defender.

Whose fault is that, exactly?

Crushaholic
11-24-2009, 01:15 PM
Who the hell asks trent dilfer questions about talent? Hilarious!

Who wouldn't want to ask a Super Bowl quarterback about talent?

vancejohnson82
11-24-2009, 01:15 PM
he's got the right read on Cutler....he rarely gets off of his primary target...which is why we saw Brandon making so many great catches last year and playing defensive back half the time.

i think its too early to start piling onto the guy but the rest of the NFL is just starting to see SOME fo what we saw the last few years....an overconfidence in his arm and a lack of ability to read the field and work through the offense

he will be a top 10 QB for a long time...but never a franchise guy in my opinion

much like Duante Culpepper...if you give him the weapons, he will be fine...but he''s not elite

Beantown Bronco
11-24-2009, 01:17 PM
The interception that Cutler threw Sunday night was a tipped ball that killed a potential game-winning drive. That wasn’t Cutler’s fault

Oh really? It wasn't like it was tipped at the line or hit someone in the foot and something freaky happened. His receiver (Olsen) was blanketed, Cutler continued to stare him down, and proceeded to throw a ball that never should've been thrown. How on Earth was that pick not his fault?

Beantown Bronco
11-24-2009, 01:17 PM
I'm not sure why that wasn't his fault. It's not as if his own player let it go off his hands. It was tipped by a defender, to a defender.

Whose fault is that, exactly?

same page rep

jhns
11-24-2009, 01:18 PM
I agree with some of the article. Cutler really needs to be broken and tamed before he will ever be good. I think Shanny would have kept him under control if they stayed together. He was getting better when he was here. Chocago letting him do what he wants and throw it 40 times a game is horrible for Cutlers development and really bad for their record.

I don't agree with the statement that anyone could throw for 4000 yards here. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure we don't have a QB throwing for that this year. Everything else he mentioned is here unless you think McDaniels isn't a good offensive mind. Our offense fell off a lot this year and the only differences are QB, coach, and a high first round pick RB. It isn't some coincidence that everyone on offense is half as good this year without Cutler. Maybe it was all Shanahan. That isn't good for us if it was.

Crushaholic
11-24-2009, 01:19 PM
Oh really? It wasn't like it was tipped at the line or hit someone in the foot and something freaky happened. His receiver (Olsen) was blanketed, Cutler continued to stare him down, and proceeded to throw a ball that never should've been thrown. How on Earth was that pick not his fault?

Yep. Even the announcers commented that Cutler telegraphed the throw...

bronco militia
11-24-2009, 01:20 PM
Who wouldn't want to ask a Super Bowl quarterback about talent?

the only 'winning' superbowl QB in NFL history not to play for the same team the following year.

Ha!

colonelbeef
11-24-2009, 01:22 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/sports/football/24fast.html?ref=todayspaper

An Ex-Quarterback’s Take on Cutler’s Struggles
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/23/sports/baseball/24fast1/articleLarge.jpg


As the rift between the Denver Broncos’ rookie coach, Josh McDaniels, and his star quarterback, Jay Cutler, widened last off-season, more than a few executives in the N.F.L. suggested that McDaniels should make nice with Cutler for the good of the team. But McDaniels, it became clear, had something else in mind, and now we know why.

Cutler, who was traded to the Chicago Bears in April for two first-round picks and quarterback Kyle Orton, was supposed to change the balance of power in the National Football Conference North and make the Bears instant Super Bowl candidates.
The balance of power has shifted all right, up to the Minnesota Vikings and their 40-year-old wonder, Brett Favre, who — can this really be happening? — may be having the best season of his indestructible career. The Vikings (9-1) are running away with the division, leaving Green Bay to scramble for a wild-card spot. Left in the dust are the Bears, who, after Sunday night’s 24-20 loss to Philadelphia, are 4-6 and all but eliminated from the postseason hunt. That gives them plenty of time to contemplate this question: what is wrong with Cutler?

Cutler has thrown a league-high 18 interceptions, the same number he threw all of last season for the Broncos. It is two more than the Jets rookie Mark Sanchez’s total, and he can be excused for the deer-in-the-headlights look. The interception that Cutler threw Sunday night was a tipped ball that killed a potential game-winning drive. That wasn’t Cutler’s fault, but a near interception earlier in the game — when he tried to gun a pass to Greg Olsen into triple coverage in the end zone — was. Even more troublesome was that Cutler overthrew three touch passes that seemed to be certain touchdowns if they were on the money.

Cutler’s lack of accuracy on Sunday night, and the 12 interceptions he has thrown in prime-time games, have been confounding. “He was never as good as everybody said he was,” the former quarterback Trent Dilfer, now an ESPN analyst, said Monday. “He has great talent and remarkable upside, but he’s a very average player.”

Cutler is coming off a season in which he threw for 4,526 yards. But Dilfer said that any quarterback playing in Denver last year, behind the game’s best offensive line, with Brandon Stokley and Eddie Royal to catch the ball and an offensive guru like Mike Shanahan calling the plays, should have been able to throw for 4,000 yards. None of those factors exist in what Dilfer calls Chicago’s antiquated offensive system. Dilfer said: “He’s a pick-and-stick passer: he doesn’t work through his progressions. He is locked in on his primary receiver and he lets it fly. He hardly ever gets to the No. 3 receiver and he very rarely even gets to No. 2.”

That has been a problem in particular in the red zone, where Cutler has thrown five interceptions this season. Finally, Dilfer said, Cutler’s mechanics cause him to fade as he throws the touch pass. Cutler’s knees, Dilfer said, face downfield on the touch pass, so that he looks like a guard shooting a fadeaway jumper. Instead, he should plant his left leg and follow through.

“He’s had so much statistical success, he’s never been broken,” Dilfer said. “Like big-time racehorses, you have to break them.”

Consider Cutler and the Bears’ season broken.

I couldn't agree with this analysis any more. I hate to point this out to the Cutler haters, but these are all correctable problems. Having an average arm, being unable to move in the pocket, being disgustingly slow on your feet- not correctable problems.

Cutler is like a wild, super talented racehorse that needs to be broken.
Cutler had to go through this season, he needed to be humbled. He will survive this, and he will be an excellent player once all of this is said and done.

Rigs11
11-24-2009, 01:23 PM
that's the point, who cares if you throw for 4000 yards if you also end up throwing 18 picks? the guy sucks, shanny didn't want to admit it and mcdaniels did.

colonelbeef
11-24-2009, 01:25 PM
that's the point, who cares if you throw for 4000 yards if you also end up throwing 18 picks? the guy sucks, shanny didn't want to admit it and mcdaniels did.

I guess you think that Peyton Manning and Brett Favre suck too, they both threw more than 20 picks in a season early on.

Height of foolishness to think that a 26 year old is done.

RaiderH8r
11-24-2009, 01:25 PM
"But Dilfer said that any quarterback playing in Denver last year, behind the game’s best offensive line, with Brandon Stokley and Eddie Royal to catch the ball and an offensive guru like Mike Shanahan calling the plays, should have been able to throw for 4,000 yards."

Somehow I don't think Dilfer would be as dismissive if Orton manages even 3,500 behind the same OL, throwing to Stokley, Royal and Marshall. I guess the offensive guru has changed but that's just tough titty of the Wunderkind can't follow up with his guy in his system.

Bronx33
11-24-2009, 01:38 PM
Who wouldn't want to ask a Super Bowl quarterback about talent?

A below average qb surrounded by a superbowl team (nuff said)

vancejohnson82
11-24-2009, 01:40 PM
A below average qb surrounded by a superbowl team (nuff said)

but according to this board you can't win without a "franchise" QB

baja
11-24-2009, 01:40 PM
:clown:

There you go, as usual, shooting the messenger and ignoring the message. At least you are consistent !

TonyR
11-24-2009, 01:42 PM
the only 'winning' superbowl QB in NFL history not to play for the same team the following year.


Do you honestly and seriously believe that just because Dilfer wasn't a Hall of Fame caliber QB that he doesn't know anything about being an NFL QB and can't analyze the position? So applying that logic I guess only great chefs can be food critics, and only great actors/writers/directions can be movie critcs, etc.

TonyR
11-24-2009, 01:43 PM
There you go, as usual, shooting the messenger and ignoring the message. At least you are consistent !

Some of these guys are like little kids who plug their ears and say la-la-la-la-la-la-la when the don't want to hear something.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-24-2009, 01:44 PM
I couldn't agree with this analysis any more. I hate to point this out to the Cutler haters, but these are all correctable problems. Having an average arm, being unable to move in the pocket, being disgustingly slow on your feet- not correctable problems.

Cutler is like a wild, super talented racehorse that needs to be broken.
Cutler had to go through this season, he needed to be humbled. He will survive this, and he will be an excellent player once all of this is said and done.

That assumes a lot. Like the idea that he's humble enough to take this as a lesson and move forward. Like the idea that he wants to improve and doesn't just think his strong arm can make every shortcoming alright.

Honestly, I don't know why he's given a pass on these things, especially with his attitude...

But I guess some people just need to make excuses for the guy. Whitlock still makes excuses for Jeff George, so at least you're in fat company.

bronco militia
11-24-2009, 01:44 PM
There you go, as usual, shooting the messenger and ignoring the message. At least you are consistent !

I'd like to shoot them both

Dukes
11-24-2009, 01:44 PM
I couldn't agree with this analysis any more. I hate to point this out to the Cutler haters, but these are all correctable problems. Having an average arm, being unable to move in the pocket, being disgustingly slow on your feet- not correctable problems.

Cutler is like a wild, super talented racehorse that needs to be broken.
Cutler had to go through this season, he needed to be humbled. He will survive this, and he will be an excellent player once all of this is said and done.

I'm fine with that once the Broncos are no longer tied to the Bears. I'll probably root for him after this year is over.

jhns
11-24-2009, 01:48 PM
but according to this board you can't win without a "franchise" QB

I have never seen someone on this board say this before. It is weird that the entire board thinks this and it has yet to come out in a thread I have read.

Tombstone RJ
11-24-2009, 01:54 PM
Not sure why people want to bag on Dilfer for having an opinion. Sure, Dilfer wasn't the best QB ever to play in the NFL but he was the QB of a SB winning team so he deserves some respect.

Nobody denys Cutlers talent, it's his mechanics and his decision making that people like Dilfer question. The race horse analogy is perfect for Jay because he's very much like an immature stallion trying to prove to the world he's better than everyone else. The problem is that he is in an arena where talent alone does not win games. He's not an idiot like Jeff George so he does have a chance to reel it in and become a better, more well rounded QB.

vancejohnson82
11-24-2009, 01:54 PM
I have never seen someone on this board say this before. It is weird that the entire board thinks this and it has yet to come out in a thread I have read.

really? well, I wouldnt say ALL of the board believes this...but there is a great majority that believe this team can't win until we draft a "FRANCHISE" QB like Cutler

you really don't remember the doom and gloom? The "WHAT ARE WE DOING!!! NOW WE WILL NEVER COMPETE IN THE NFL!!!" posts

400HZ
11-24-2009, 02:00 PM
he's got the right read on Cutler....he rarely gets off of his primary target...which is why we saw Brandon making so many great catches last year and playing defensive back half the time.

i think its too early to start piling onto the guy but the rest of the NFL is just starting to see SOME fo what we saw the last few years....an overconfidence in his arm and a lack of ability to read the field and work through the offense

he will be a top 10 QB for a long time...but never a franchise guy in my opinion

much like Duante Culpepper...if you give him the weapons, he will be fine...but he''s not elite

Starting when?

jhns
11-24-2009, 02:05 PM
really? well, I wouldnt say ALL of the board believes this...but there is a great majority that believe this team can't win until we draft a "FRANCHISE" QB like Cutler

you really don't remember the doom and gloom? The "WHAT ARE WE DOING!!! NOW WE WILL NEVER COMPETE IN THE NFL!!!" posts

Oh I remember those posts. I made some of those posts, although not being as drastic as you are.

What you fail to realize is no one said anything close to us needing a franchise QB to win. We simply said having a good QB makes winning much easier. Also, that if our offense regresses(which it did), we would need a top defense and special teams to win games. that is what it takes for a system, or ball control, QB to win in this league. Since no one saw this defense turning into one of the best, we wanted to keep the offense good. Then there is the whole point of our offense was all rookie-third year guys that were growing together. That extremely young offense was one of the better offenses in the NFL. Some of us didn't like seeing it broken up as it had a LOT of potential. Then there are the people that listen to Shanahan when it comes to QBs and he says Jay is a good one. Some of us don't like seeing our young, good QB traded away.

None of that claims you can't win without a top QB.

Rohirrim
11-24-2009, 02:05 PM
I hope the rumor is true and Cowher ends up in Chicago. That would be great to watch Mopey Jay and The Spittin' Chin go at it on the sidelines. :rofl:

Bronx33
11-24-2009, 02:09 PM
I hope the rumor is true and Cowher ends up in Chicago. That would be great to watch Mopey Jay and The Spittin' Chin go at it on the sidelines. :rofl:


cutler = white kordell stuart ;D

Tombstone RJ
11-24-2009, 02:10 PM
I hope the rumor is true and Cowher ends up in Chicago. That would be great to watch Mopey Jay and The Spittin' Chin go at it on the sidelines. :rofl:

That would be interesting... Cowher had to deal with a lot of mediocre to bad QBs before he got big ben. Hell, he made Slash a respectable QB. I bet Cutler would listen to Cowher...

FireFly
11-24-2009, 02:10 PM
I think he would have been worse here under McDaniels, and I think that we would have had all sorts of dramas.

Especially having dropped 4 on the trot, we'd be having a cancer in the locker room. In a new situation the blame is being put on him, here it would have been put on McDaniels and Cutler would have been absolved of all blame in the eyes of the fans and national media imo

bronco militia
11-24-2009, 02:26 PM
cutler = white kordell stuart ;D

you just called cutler a fag!

Pseudofool
11-24-2009, 02:44 PM
Dilfer's average talents speak nothing of his ability to assess a QB's play. That's a shallow argument (and a logical fallacy--ad hominen). Given Dilfer's specificity, I don't see why anyone should doubt his analysis out of hand.
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baja
11-24-2009, 02:47 PM
After reading this thread I am amazed at the number of posters discounting Dilfer's analysis of Cutler because he wasn't a great QB, hell Bill Walsh wasn't a great QB either does that mean he had no ability to analyze the QB position?

colonelbeef
11-24-2009, 02:55 PM
I hope the rumor is true and Cowher ends up in Chicago. That would be great to watch Mopey Jay and The Spittin' Chin go at it on the sidelines. :rofl:

I bet Cutler dreams of that scenario. After the rest of this year and hearing it all offseason he will be dying to get out there and prove himself capable of making better decisions. A guy like Cowher commands respect and would reconstruct that team from the lines, which they desperately need.

yerner
11-24-2009, 03:02 PM
After reading this thread I am amazed at the number of posters discounting Dilfer's analysis of Cutler because he wasn't a great QB, hell Bill Walsh wasn't a great QB either does that mean he had no ability to analyze the QB position?

Thats a weak analogy. Walsh was a lifetime coach and actually had to evaluate qb's for a living and had a record of success that Dilfer does not. Dilfer is an tv guy. I understand your point though.

barryr
11-24-2009, 03:43 PM
Dilfer is exactly right. Only the morons paint Cutler as a "franchise" QB before he has even won a playoff game or proven to be such a QB. "He throws hard" is the evidence used. That's even what fatass Jamie Dukes thinks and what does he know about QB's? Hell, what does he know about football other than gaining weight?

Broncos_OTM
11-24-2009, 03:57 PM
man there are a ton of idiots in this world. Who cares what cutler is or isnt. All i know is that he aint a denver bronco. Cutler DID NOT LIKE DENVER NOR ITS FANS. For this reason i really want to see the guy fail. Especially this season. For all of you that love Cutler drop it or for **** sakes join the bears wagon. I root for guys of all denver teams that have gone on to have success with other teams. for various reasons. Guys like Lappy who used to be a av. Holiday the rockie.

Cutler and his playbook returning dad are Dead to me after this season.

crazyhorse
11-24-2009, 04:11 PM
I couldn't agree with this analysis any more. I hate to point this out to the Cutler haters, but these are all correctable problems. Having an average arm, being unable to move in the pocket, being disgustingly slow on your feet- not correctable problems.

Cutler is like a wild, super talented racehorse that needs to be broken.
Cutler had to go through this season, he needed to be humbled. He will survive this, and he will be an excellent player once all of this is said and done.

What cant be fixed is his mental make-up. Cutler is a modern day Jeff George. He will wind up the same way. Except George had a bigger arm and more overall talent.

TonyR
11-24-2009, 04:21 PM
What cant be fixed is his mental make-up.

Probably. He's in his fourth year in the league and is still making the same mistakes.

baja
11-24-2009, 04:59 PM
Thats a weak analogy. Walsh was a lifetime coach and actually had to evaluate qb's for a living and had a record of success that Dilfer does not. Dilfer is an tv guy. I understand your point though.

Dilfer has been playing the position probably since he was 8 ant every level possible I think that qualifies him to analyze the position even if he did not play it as well as some here would like.

I think it is a ignorant statement to say Dilfer can't correctly analyze Cutler's game because he himself was not a franchise QB.

SouthStndJunkie
11-24-2009, 05:03 PM
After reading this thread I am amazed at the number of posters discounting Dilfer's analysis of Cutler because he wasn't a great QB, hell Bill Walsh wasn't a great QB either does that mean he had no ability to analyze the QB position?

I think some of us are simply pointing out the irony of a former high draft pick with more career INTs than TDs telling a QB that was a high draft pick (with more career TDs than INTs) that he needs to be broken.

What Dilfer is saying is even pretty much spot on....it's just funny that Dilfer is up there lecturing on the topic.

baja
11-24-2009, 05:46 PM
I think some of us are simply pointing out the irony of a former high draft pick with more career INTs than TDs telling a QB that was a high draft pick (with more career TDs than INTs) that he needs to be broken.

What Dilfer is saying is even pretty much spot on....it's just funny that Dilfer is up there lecturing on the topic.

Oh I didn't think of it that way, that makes sense. Carry on... ;D

The Big E
11-24-2009, 05:59 PM
Funny how all the "experts" here discount Dilfer's opinion, as if anyone here is somehow more qualified. I think the average players who had to fight to survive in the league actually have better insight than the so-called star players. I would say it's true in all sports, not just the NFL.

Also, my being an average message board poster gives me more accurate insight into the shortcomings of everyone else here.

DBroncos4life
11-24-2009, 06:07 PM
Funny how all the "experts" here discount Dilfer's opinion, as if anyone here is somehow more qualified. I think the average players who had to fight to survive in the league actually have better insight than the so-called star players. I would say it's true in all sports, not just the NFL.

Also, my being an average message board poster gives me more accurate insight into the shortcomings of everyone else here.

I don't think Trent's views are off on this subject at all, but I don't think because you put on a NFL uni automatically gives you better insight on the subject. I mean are you really going to take what L. Phillips or MoC have to say about another struggling RB in the NFL to heart because they are former players in the NFL?

oubronco
11-24-2009, 06:10 PM
**** Dilfer and **** Cutler neither one is on the Broncos so gives a ****

Circle Orange
11-24-2009, 06:28 PM
Not sure why people want to bag on Dilfer for having an opinion. Sure, Dilfer wasn't the best QB ever to play in the NFL but he was the QB of a SB winning team so he deserves some respect.

Nobody denys Cutlers talent, it's his mechanics and his decision making that people like Dilfer question. The race horse analogy is perfect for Jay because he's very much like an immature stallion trying to prove to the world he's better than everyone else. The problem is that he is in an arena where talent alone does not win games. He's not an idiot like Jeff George so he does have a chance to reel it in and become a better, more well rounded QB.

Well, Jay's thrown a shoe.

BTW, Jeff George and Daunte Culpepper also threw for 4,000 yards. And they ended up doing...what, exactly? I musta missed those HOF ceremonies.

And Jeffey George is NOT stupid...why, he still insists that he can play with the best of 'em. Even insisted Brad Childress work him out this year.

What's with you people, anyway? Don't you know JayBee has a cannon arm? It's the explanation for everything!

richpjr
11-24-2009, 06:46 PM
Cutler is like a wild, super talented racehorse that needs to be broken.
Cutler had to go through this season, he needed to be humbled. He will survive this, and he will be an excellent player once all of this is said and done.

He has given no indication that he will turn into an excellent player. Lots of guys have physical tools. His mechanics suck, his decision making sucks, and he still has that pouty, aloof attitude that will get old very quickly in a city like Chicago. If anything, he is regressing as a QB. The Bears have a ton invested him and will sorely miss the draft picks they gave up so they have no choice but to ride it out with him, which is scary considering his starting record as a QB in college and in the pros. A few more choke jobs like he has shown and the Chicago fans will turn on him big time and with his lack of maturity, it could get ugly.

TailgateNut
11-24-2009, 06:49 PM
he has given no indication that he will turn into an excellent player. Lots of guys have physical tools. His mechanics suck, his decision making sucks, and he still has that pouty, aloof attitude that will get old very quickly in a city like chicago. If anything, he is regressing as a qb. The bears have a ton invested him and will sorely miss the draft picks they gave up so they have no choice but to ride it out with him, which is scary considering his starting record as a qb in college and in the pros. A few more choke jobs like he has shown and the chicago fans will turn on him big time and with his lack of maturity, it could get ugly.


^5

Circle Orange
11-24-2009, 06:51 PM
Dilfer's explanations are thinner than his hairline.

There should be a pool on how long it takes JayBee to get run out of Chicago...but not before denver gets those picks! !Booya!

Rigs11
11-24-2009, 08:10 PM
I guess you think that Peyton Manning and Brett Favre suck too, they both threw more than 20 picks in a season early on.

Height of foolishness to think that a 26 year old is done.

Here we go. Guys like Favre and Manning come around rarely and if you're trying to compare baby Jay to those guys than you're more dense than I thought.

UberBroncoMan
11-24-2009, 08:24 PM
**** Dilfer and **** Cutler neither one is on the Broncos so gives a ****

We should give a ****. Cutler sucking ='s a better draft pick for us next year.

~Crash~
11-24-2009, 08:30 PM
Well you don't say!

you know you are a smart ass ehhh.. think it this way last year we had the best O-line in the leauge now they suck hmm

DBroncos4life
11-24-2009, 08:31 PM
Here we go. Guys like Favre and Manning come around rarely and if you're trying to compare baby Jay to those guys than you're more dense than I thought.

Manning should be left out of this discussion. Twice early on in his career he tossed over 20 Int's. Farve on the other hand has 6 times topped the 20 Int mark. He by far and away is the worst "elite" super star QB at taking care of the football of all time and its not like it was early on in his career and he improved either. We are talking his 3rd, 8th, 9th, 13th, 15th, and 18th seasons.
I don't think anyone is going to claim that Cutler is having a good season at all here, but on the other hand I don't think its out of the range to think that he is having a Brett Favre type season.

baja
11-24-2009, 09:14 PM
Bret Farve is a winner, Jay Cutler is not.

Bret has "it"

Jay has "isn't"

broncocalijohn
11-24-2009, 09:29 PM
I'm not sure why that wasn't his fault. It's not as if his own player let it go off his hands. It was tipped by a defender, to a defender.

Whose fault is that, exactly?

once again, someone making excuses for Cutler. That was one horrible pass. It was even after a timeout so he had time to get the play ready and execute to perfection as always when it matters most.

broncocalijohn
11-24-2009, 09:33 PM
**** Dilfer and **** Cutler neither one is on the Broncos so gives a ****

Seems you are always there to step up for Jay's back. I think you give a ****. Plus, that is an important pick during next year's draft. Seeing failure in Cutler helps us to know that canning him was the right thing to do. So far, we have been correct.

richpjr
11-24-2009, 09:56 PM
I about spit out my beer when I read this one:


Jerome Bettis commenting on Jay Cutler

It seems like after every incomplete throw, every bad pass, Cutler is turning on someone and complaining about a route or something else that a receiver did wrong. Clearly this guy's not on the same page with everyone in Chicago. He's deflecting blame. He needs a timeout to get his head straight and he needs to check his ego. The guy's so headstrong and so confident in his ability to throw a football that it puts him in trouble. He needs to re-evaluate his game, start from the bottom with his raw skill set, and work his way back up. At some point he has to accept some blame. Look, Jay: If you smell $hit everywhere you go, it just might be you.

BroncoMan4ever
11-24-2009, 10:00 PM
I hope Cutler is good enough to get the Broncos a top ten pick in next years draft. !Booya!

me too, even though we will trade back with it and pick up additional 2nd and 3rd rounders.

BroncoInferno
11-24-2009, 10:05 PM
I couldn't agree with this analysis any more. I hate to point this out to the Cutler haters, but these are all correctable problems. Having an average arm, being unable to move in the pocket, being disgustingly slow on your feet- not correctable problems.

Cutler is like a wild, super talented racehorse that needs to be broken.
Cutler had to go through this season, he needed to be humbled. He will survive this, and he will be an excellent player once all of this is said and done.

Dude, he is in his 4th year in the league. Issues such as going through his progressions should have been addressed long ago. He is what he is.

BroncoInferno
11-24-2009, 10:09 PM
I think some of us are simply pointing out the irony of a former high draft pick with more career INTs than TDs telling a QB that was a high draft pick (with more career TDs than INTs) that he needs to be broken.

What Dilfer is saying is even pretty much spot on....it's just funny that Dilfer is up there lecturing on the topic.

Why is it funny? That's his job...to analyze what is going on in the NFL. There's no irony in it. As others have said, the fact that Dilfer was not a great QB is irrelevant to the validity of his analysis.

BroncoInferno
11-24-2009, 10:12 PM
I bet Cutler dreams of that scenario. After the rest of this year and hearing it all offseason he will be dying to get out there and prove himself capable of making better decisions. A guy like Cowher commands respect and would reconstruct that team from the lines, which they desperately need.

The problem for Cowher or whomever coaches the Bears is that the front office gave up the farm for Cutler, so they lack the resources to address the host of other issues the team has.

Bronco Yoda
11-25-2009, 04:39 AM
Quote:
Jerome Bettis commenting on Jay Cutler

It seems like after every incomplete throw, every bad pass, Cutler is turning on someone and complaining about a route or something else that a receiver did wrong. Clearly this guy's not on the same page with everyone in Chicago. He's deflecting blame. He needs a timeout to get his head straight and he needs to check his ego. The guy's so headstrong and so confident in his ability to throw a football that it puts him in trouble. He needs to re-evaluate his game, start from the bottom with his raw skill set, and work his way back up. At some point he has to accept some blame. Look, Jay: If you smell $hit everywhere you go, it just might be you. "


How dare he! Who does he think he is.

Oh sweet baby jay....sweet,sweet baby jay. Forgive us all for none of us know what we speak'th of.

oh sweet sweet baby jay...

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 06:36 AM
Orton at the helm of this team makes them a feel good story and underdog fighting for a playoff spot. Cutler at the helm of this team makes them a playoff contender, division champ and a serious threat to go deep into the playoffs. That's what the Wunderkind traded away and that was the point of my previous post. Dilfer is dismissive of Jay's achievements here while I suspect he will swing off of Orton's nutsack if Neckbeard manages to chuck for 3,500 yards, and miss the playoffs with essentially the same personnel. Because Dilfer's motivation is clearly more inclined towards a scathing criticism of Cutler while ignoring Orton's regression, McKid's inability to get what was a top tier offense into a scoring mode and the fact that even the sack suckable tandem of Favre and Manning have had their own 20 pick struggles means that Dilfer's analysis is myopic and essentially worthless as an instructive piece.

TailgateNut
11-25-2009, 06:40 AM
Orton at the helm of this team makes them a feel good story and underdog fighting for a playoff spot. Cutler at the helm of this team makes them a playoff contender, division champ and a serious threat to go deep into the playoffs. That's what the Wunderkind traded away and that was the point of my previous post. Dilfer is dismissive of Jay's achievements here while I suspect he will swing off of Orton's nutsack if Neckbeard manages to chuck for 3,500 yards, and miss the playoffs with essentially the same personnel. Because Dilfer's motivation is clearly more inclined towards a scathing criticism of Cutler while ignoring Orton's regression, McKid's inability to get what was a top tier offense into a scoring mode and the fact that even the sack suckable tandem of Favre and Manning have had their own 20 pick struggles means that Dilfer's analysis is myopic and essentially worthless as an instructive piece.

Damn. :spit:Are you smoking crack this early in the morning?

I'm sure with 18 interceptions we'd be 6-4 right now and they'd be singing the "Kumbaya" song in the locker room as Cutler makes excuses and throws about the blame for HIS interceptions.:spit:

TonyR
11-25-2009, 06:44 AM
Dilfer is dismissive of Jay's achievements here...

What achievements were those?

oubronco
11-25-2009, 06:44 AM
We should give a ****. Cutler sucking ='s a better draft pick for us next year.

Well we don't need every thread bitching about Cutler he's not our problem anymore I get sick of every thread ending up in a Cutler bitchfest

colonelbeef
11-25-2009, 06:44 AM
The problem for Cowher or whomever coaches the Bears is that the front office gave up the farm for Cutler, so they lack the resources to address the host of other issues the team has.

They lack early picks, but that is not the only way to rebuild a team. Remember, Shanahan came to a Broncos team with the exact same problems. No picks, old on both sides of the ball, a seemingly beaten QB coming off of a bad year.

Cutler will be good.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 06:46 AM
Damn. :spit:Are you smoking crack this early in the morning?

I'm sure with 18 interceptions we'd be 6-4 right now and they'd be singing the "Kumbaya" song in the locker room as Cutler makes excuses and throws about the blame for HIS interceptions.:spit:

I'm saying that Eddie Royal, Brandon Marshall, Brandon Stokley, Knowshon Moreno, our entire OL, and Tony Scheffler are considerable upgrades at every single position in almost every quantifiable category over what is going on in Chicago. As a result throwing to receivers who 1. get open 2. run solid routes while getting protection from the OL and being able to move in the pocket utilizing a play action bootleg (does Orton even move that far?) to keep back side pursuit honest which opens lanes in the running game (although I have my doubts now considering the Wunderkind can't get Moreno going when Hillis was tearing it up last year as a 7th stringer. WTF is going on with that?) he wouldn't be throwing 18 picks. There's a reason he locks onto a receiver in Chicago...they only have 1 receiver in Chicago...and barely at that.

colonelbeef
11-25-2009, 06:47 AM
Orton at the helm of this team makes them a feel good story and underdog fighting for a playoff spot. Cutler at the helm of this team makes them a playoff contender, division champ and a serious threat to go deep into the playoffs. That's what the Wunderkind traded away and that was the point of my previous post. Dilfer is dismissive of Jay's achievements here while I suspect he will swing off of Orton's nutsack if Neckbeard manages to chuck for 3,500 yards, and miss the playoffs with essentially the same personnel. Because Dilfer's motivation is clearly more inclined towards a scathing criticism of Cutler while ignoring Orton's regression, McKid's inability to get what was a top tier offense into a scoring mode and the fact that even the sack suckable tandem of Favre and Manning have had their own 20 pick struggles means that Dilfer's analysis is myopic and essentially worthless as an instructive piece.

great post.

oubronco
11-25-2009, 06:49 AM
Seems you are always there to step up for Jay's back. I think you give a ****. Plus, that is an important pick during next year's draft. Seeing failure in Cutler helps us to know that canning him was the right thing to do. So far, we have been correct.

Sorry Charlie not me I didn't like the trade at first but once he was gone I moved on like alot people should do and the only reason your dogging him like this is because he's shytting the bed what happens if he pulls his head outta his ass are you going to start kissing it then

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 06:50 AM
They lack early picks, but that is not the only way to rebuild a team. Remember, Shanahan came to a Broncos team with the exact same problems. No picks, old on both sides of the ball, a seemingly beaten QB coming off of a bad year.

Cutler will be good.

Ah. Good. A Cutler/Elway comparison.

And from PrivateBeef, too. Good show!

colonelbeef
11-25-2009, 06:54 AM
Ah. Good. A Cutler/Elway comparison.

And from PrivateBeef, too. Good show!

Are you really that simple? The comparison is to the team and it's current state of affairs.

Having lots of picks and money is great and all, but it's about how you spend it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 06:59 AM
Are you really that simple? The comparison is to the team and it's current state of affairs.

Having lots of picks and money is great and all, but it's about how you spend it.

Yes, and the difference between Elway and Cutler is night and day, which is a major component of what you wrote. "Oh, well it's the same!" No, actually, it is not. Not at all. Not even close.

ColoradoDarin
11-25-2009, 07:02 AM
Look, Jay: If you smell $hit everywhere you go, it just might be you.

Jerome has such a way with words.

colonelbeef
11-25-2009, 07:11 AM
Yes, and the difference between Elway and Cutler is night and day, which is a major component of what you wrote. "Oh, well it's the same!" No, actually, it is not. Not at all. Not even close.

You seem to forget that John Elway was called a whiney crybaby, a player incapable to winning the big game, a player that whined his way off of one team in order to get to another. A player benched at one point for his terrible play.

He persevered, and look how it turned out. 95% of America had written him off.


I'm not saying that he is the same player or is even capable of being in the same league as one of the all time greats. What I am saying, however, is that a spurned Broncos fans' perception might not be the place to go for an even keeled, thoughtful analysis of the situation.

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy going on around here regarding criticizing a crybaby QB who whined his way out off of one team because he didn't like the way it was being run in order to get to another team. The best player in Broncos history did the same thing, morons.


You are a fool if you are willing to write off a 26 year old player as talented as Cutler is simply for showing immaturity, or an ego, or based on innuendo.

We will see how it plays out.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 07:26 AM
You seem to forget that John Elway was called a whiney crybaby, a player incapable to winning the big game, a player that whined his way off of one team in order to get to another. A player benched at one point for his terrible play.

He persevered, and look how it turned out. 95% of America had written him off.


I'm not saying that he is the same player or is even capable of being in the same league as one of the all time greats. What I am saying, however, is that a spurned Broncos fans' perception might not be the place to go for an even keeled, thoughtful analysis of the situation.

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy going on around here regarding criticizing a crybaby QB who whined his way out off of one team because he didn't like the way it was being run in order to get to another team. The best player in Broncos history did the same thing, morons.


You are a fool if you are willing to write off a 26 year old player as talented as Cutler is simply for showing immaturity, or an ego, or based on innuendo.

We will see how it plays out.

It's not "simply for showing immaturity or an ego." It isn't. It's showing that he doesn't respond to coaching. That he makes the same mistakes he made as a rookie: staring down receivers. Rarely making it to his second read, NEVER making it to his third. Thinking his arm strength can do the trick. Being a poor student of the game.

These are the things that make me believe Cutler won't be successful in this league. Yes, he'll put up numbers. But winning? The guy doesn't win.

go_broncos
11-25-2009, 07:28 AM
I never played QB. Watching games, I can tell that Cutler sucks.
He will always complain. I don't like Orton.But, I will take Orton over cutler every week.

CUTLER SUCKS

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 07:33 AM
It's not "simply for showing immaturity or an ego." It isn't. It's showing that he doesn't respond to coaching. That he makes the same mistakes he made as a rookie: staring down receivers. Rarely making it to his second read, NEVER making it to his third. Thinking his arm strength can do the trick. Being a poor student of the game.

These are the things that make me believe Cutler won't be successful in this league. Yes, he'll put up numbers. But winning? The guy doesn't win.

And that is EXACTLY what was said about Elway.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 07:37 AM
And that is EXACTLY what was said about Elway.

Really? Prove it. Find a clipping.

Thanks for playing.

Elway worked all off season and in meetings to help create the game plan, because he wanted to get better. Have you ever heard about Cutler wanting to spend extra time in the meeting room to get better?

Traveler
11-25-2009, 08:00 AM
I agree with some of the article. Cutler really needs to be broken and tamed before he will ever be good.



Anyone think Josh would have been good for Cutler? I did, but I'm not how sure if Jay could handle hard coaching.

IIRC, there were reports that McDaniels was very tough on Tom Brady. We've seen him on the sidelines with Orton forcefully make his points. The difference being both Brady and Orton have the type of personality to handle it. Not too sure Jay does.

I can only imagine what hysterics we would see on the sideline if Jay was still here.

BlaK-Argentina
11-25-2009, 08:06 AM
Orton at the helm of this team makes them a feel good story and underdog fighting for a playoff spot. Cutler at the helm of this team makes them a playoff contender, division champ and a serious threat to go deep into the playoffs. That's what the Wunderkind traded away and that was the point of my previous post. Dilfer is dismissive of Jay's achievements here while I suspect he will swing off of Orton's nutsack if Neckbeard manages to chuck for 3,500 yards, and miss the playoffs with essentially the same personnel. Because Dilfer's motivation is clearly more inclined towards a scathing criticism of Cutler while ignoring Orton's regression, McKid's inability to get what was a top tier offense into a scoring mode and the fact that even the sack suckable tandem of Favre and Manning have had their own 20 pick struggles means that Dilfer's analysis is myopic and essentially worthless as an instructive piece.

Ha!ROFL!LOLHa!LOLROFL!Hilarious!:~ohyah!::clown:


Please, just stop. Cutler is exactly what this Denver team DOESN'T need. We're 3-7 with that guy at the helm. Maybe 4-6. When are people going to take his balls off their face to see that he is nothing more than a BAD QB with potential? I actually have trouble finding 5 QBs that are playing worse than he is this year. He is costing his team games. Shanahan was able to manage him well enough and the rest of the offense made him look way better than he is.

I bet he would be benched if it wasn't for how much Chicago gave up.
His awful performance is making his fanboy club lose a few members... it's just a matter of time before it's empty.

jhns
11-25-2009, 08:15 AM
Really? Prove it. Find a clipping.

Thanks for playing.

Elway worked all off season and in meetings to help create the game plan, because he wanted to get better. Have you ever heard about Cutler wanting to spend extra time in the meeting room to get better?

Is that a joke? He didn't even have an offseason when he was here. He took his receivers to Atlanta one year and was here working with Josh the next. Everyone has always said he is a first in, last out type of player. That is not his problem. If you have to make stuff up to make a point, you don't have a point.

jhns
11-25-2009, 08:20 AM
Anyone think Josh would have been good for Cutler? I did, but I'm not how sure if Jay could handle hard coaching.

IIRC, there were reports that McDaniels was very tough on Tom Brady. We've seen him on the sidelines with Orton forcefully make his points. The difference being both Brady and Orton have the type of personality to handle it. Not too sure Jay does.

I can only imagine what hysterics we would see on the sideline if Jay was still here.

He took coaching from Shanahan and was getting better when he was here. Shanahan isn't exactly nice when a player screws up. He would get in their face on the sidelines. Plummer and Shanny looked like they were going to start hitting each other a few times. Maybe that was just on the sideline and he was calmer later though.

It really doesn't matter anymore. I'm not arguing that we should have kept Cutler. That argument is pointless and just pisses everyone off.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 08:29 AM
Is that a joke? He didn't even have an offseason when he was here. He took his receivers to Atlanta one year and was here working with Josh the next. Everyone has always said he is a first in, last out type of player. That is not his problem. If you have to make stuff up to make a point, you don't have a point.

Are you a joke?

He took his receivers to Atlanta, that's true. For part of the off season, not the whole time. But I guess you like fiction.

Again: When have you ever heard of Cutler spending extra time in the meeting room, or working extra to eliminate mistakes?

he was too busy in his time "working with Josh" thinking that "some of the coaches were acting weird towards me" to have his mind on football evidently. It was shortly after that he was demanding to be traded and putting his house on the market.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 08:30 AM
Ha!ROFL!LOLHa!LOLROFL!Hilarious!:~ohyah!::clown:


Please, just stop. Cutler is exactly what this Denver team DOESN'T need. We're 3-7 with that guy at the helm. Maybe 4-6. When are people going to take his balls off their face to see that he is nothing more than a BAD QB with potential? I actually have trouble finding 5 QBs that are playing worse than he is this year. He is costing his team games. Shanahan was able to manage him well enough and the rest of the offense made him look way better than he is.

I bet he would be benched if it wasn't for how much Chicago gave up.
His awful performance is making his fanboy club lose a few members... it's just a matter of time before it's empty.

Clearly you don't recognize the superior offensive talent that Cutler would have in Denver vs. what he has in Chicago. "Take his balls of their face..." Get f'd dipsh$t.

Tombstone RJ
11-25-2009, 08:31 AM
I'm not a Cutler apologist, I'm actually far from it. But to summarize many people's point, I think its this: Cutler has the talent, and he has great potential but for whatever reason, he seems to be regressing as a QB.

Could baby jay be great? Yes.
Will baby jay be great? Maybe (its really up to him).

I'm glad he's gone and I'm glad he's stinking up Chicagoland. Good riddance. I wish no ill will on the guy but I really would not mind if he became the next Jeff George. When he pulled his penny anny crap on the Broncos, I washed my hands of him.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 08:33 AM
Clearly you don't recognize the superior offensive talent that Cutler would have in Denver vs. what he has in Chicago. "Take his balls of their face..." Get f'd dipsh$t.

And with all that superior talent, he threw 18 picks and helped his offense to be 2nd in the league in yards, 16th in the league in scoring.

The guy is effing TERRIBLE in the red zone.

So why don't you open your ****ing eyes.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 08:38 AM
Are you a joke?

He took his receivers to Atlanta, that's true. For part of the off season, not the whole time. But I guess you like fiction.

Again: When have you ever heard of Cutler spending extra time in the meeting room, or working extra to eliminate mistakes?

he was too busy in his time "working with Josh" thinking that "some of the coaches were acting weird towards me" to have his mind on football evidently. It was shortly after that he was demanding to be traded and putting his house on the market.

I guess he's not the only one who likes fiction. It seems you too have a penchant for the falsehood.

http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/Jul/18/year-3-pivotal-broncos-cutler/

Film critic

Like many quarterbacks have done, Cutler spent the offseason reviewing tons of game film. He's his worst critic.

"It's weird, because you remember every single throw and exactly what you were thinking in the situation," Cutler said. "It's really good - especially the bad ones - to look at them.

"Did you get fooled by coverage? Was it just a bad throw or were your feet wrong? . . . You get to see a lot of different things."

Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said work ethic, coupled with playing experience, usually accelerate a quarterback's improvement.

"The thing that there is no substitute for is taking snaps," Shanahan said. "That's why I think most guys start to feel comfortable in that third year. Jay's been starting actually for about a year and a half, which is good.

"I think the third year of a person playing is when they become the most comfortable with the NFL, where they feel like they have the confidence level to compete with anybody. Jay studies. He's a worker, and we've given him a lot of reps through the offseason. He's taken advantage of it."

Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer took advantage of a year's apprenticeship. Palmer was the first player selected in the 2003 draft. He didn't play one down during his rookie season. The next season, Palmer started 13 games, throwing for 2,897 yards with 18 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. In 2005, Palmer's third season, he helped lead the Bengals to an 11-5 record and the AFC North title and was named to the Pro Bowl.

"I think if you're in your third year of playing experience, that's when you make your strides as a quarterback and find out what kind of player you're going to be," Palmer said. "It's because you've been in different situations - third down, third and long, red zone, two-minute offense, four- minute offense . . . all the different situations. You find out what you've got as a quarterback.

"I had a great quarterback in front of me to learn from, Jon Kitna. But you also can get thrown into a situation where there isn't somebody in front of you that can give the team a better chance to win."

Traveler
11-25-2009, 08:40 AM
He took coaching from Shanahan and was getting better when he was here. Shanahan isn't exactly nice when a player screws up. He would get in their face on the sidelines. Plummer and Shanny looked like they were going to start hitting each other a few times. Maybe that was just on the sideline and he was calmer later though.

It really doesn't matter anymore. I'm not arguing that we should have kept Cutler. That argument is pointless and just pisses everyone off.

I'm not arguing we should have kept him either. I'm truly glad he's gone. I was just wondering, with Jay's temperment, if he and McDaniels could have co-existed. McDaniels coaches hard and I'm not sure Cutler could take it.

You mentioned that Shanny was a hard coach. I'd have to disagree with you a little. Yes, he was pretty hard on Plummer, but you'd only see them arguing on the sideline, and only when Plummer would make a mistake.

Shanahan never did that with Jay. More than anything, he let Jay get away with the same mistakes that he'd berate Plummer for, only because jay had the big arm and he could open his playbook similar to when Elway was running the offense.

Having said that, Shanahan did not make Cutler a better QB. He was just willing to put up with his mistakes because Jay provided him with the occasional "WOW" moments IMHO.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 08:42 AM
And with all that superior talent, he threw 18 picks and helped his offense to be 2nd in the league in yards, 16th in the league in scoring.

The guy is effing TERRIBLE in the red zone.

So why don't you open your ****ing eyes.

So you're on board with The Schnide as long as you get to villify Jay? Roger Dodger. How are we doing in points this year with the Wunderkind? 25th. Averaging about 9 points/game during the Schnide. Well played dude, well played.

Not to mention Denver's vaunted running game is now showing up on milk cartons across America. Well played again by the Wunderkind.

Rock Chalk
11-25-2009, 08:45 AM
"But Dilfer said that any quarterback playing in Denver last year, behind the game’s best offensive line, with Brandon Stokley and Eddie Royal to catch the ball and an offensive guru like Mike Shanahan calling the plays, should have been able to throw for 4,000 yards."

Somehow I don't think Dilfer would be as dismissive if Orton manages even 3,500 behind the same OL, throwing to Stokley, Royal and Marshall. I guess the offensive guru has changed but that's just tough titty of the Wunderkind can't follow up with his guy in his system.

Yeah, thats a completely fair assertion.

Cutler was in the same system playing with the same players for 3 years.

Orton and the entire offense are new to each other. But yeah, its the same thing isn't it.

Its posts like this that make me glad I dont come here much anymore. Place is full of ****ing retards.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 08:50 AM
Yeah, thats a completely fair assertion.

Cutler was in the same system playing with the same players for 3 years.

Orton and the entire offense are new to each other. But yeah, its the same thing isn't it.

Its posts like this that make me glad I dont come here much anymore. Place is full of ****ing retards.

Shove it pal.

I would have controlled for the coaching but McKid shipped Cutler out for Rex Grossman's career backup. And I'm the f'ing retard? Dumbass.

New coaching and new QB weren't a problem for six weeks but now its a convenient excuse.

Traveler
11-25-2009, 08:51 AM
He took coaching from Shanahan and was getting better when he was here. Shanahan isn't exactly nice when a player screws up. He would get in their face on the sidelines. Plummer and Shanny looked like they were going to start hitting each other a few times. Maybe that was just on the sideline and he was calmer later though.

It really doesn't matter anymore. I'm not arguing that we should have kept Cutler. That argument is pointless and just pisses everyone off.

I'm not arguing we should have kept him either. I'm truly glad he's gone. I was just wondering, with Jay's temperment, if he and McDaniels could have co-existed. McDaniels coaches hard and I'm not sure Cutler could take it.

You mentioned that Shanny was a hard coach. I'd have to disagree with you a little. Yes, he was pretty hard on Plummer, but you'd only see them arguing on the sideline, and only when Plummer would make a mistake.

Shanahan never did that with Jay. More than anything, he let Jay get away with the same mistakes that he'd berate Plummer for, only because jay had the big arm and he could open his playbook similar to when Elway was running the offense.

Having said that, Shanahan did not make Cutler a better QB. He was just willing to put up with his mistakes because Jay provided him with the occasional "WOW" moments IMHO.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 08:51 AM
Seems you are always there to step up for Jay's back. I think you give a ****. Plus, that is an important pick during next year's draft. Seeing failure in Cutler helps us to know that canning him was the right thing to do. So far, we have been correct.

The important pick that we shipped to Seattle so we could draft Fonzi Smith is shaping up to be no small thing either.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 08:52 AM
So you're on board with The Schnide as long as you get to villify Jay? Roger Dodger. How are we doing in points this year with the Wunderkind? 25th. Averaging about 9 points/game during the Schnide. Well played dude, well played.

Not to mention Denver's vaunted running game is now showing up on milk cartons across America. Well played again by the Wunderkind.

Yes. That's exactly what I said. I'm fine with losing as long as I get to villify your precious Jay Cutler. Only a retard would make such a ridiculous statement, and you've proven yourself to be just that plenty of times in this thread alone.

What a ****ing moron.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 08:55 AM
Yes. That's exactly what I said. I'm fine with losing as long as I get to villify your precious Jay Cutler. Only a retard would make such a ridiculous statement, and you've proven yourself to be just that plenty of times in this thread alone.

What a ****ing moron.

Pound sand douche. You've done nothing to address the legitimate beefs presented time and again regarding offensive production. As long as you can cast aspersions on Cutler that is enough for you. You're like a jilted lover.

I've said trading Jay was a bad move. For 6 weeks I was told to eat sh!t and that was fine. Maybe I was wrong. But now it appears I may not have been so wrong after all.

baja
11-25-2009, 08:58 AM
Orton at the helm of this team makes them a feel good story and underdog fighting for a playoff spot. Cutler at the helm of this team makes them a playoff contender, division champ and a serious threat to go deep into the playoffs. That's what the Wunderkind traded away and that was the point of my previous post. Dilfer is dismissive of Jay's achievements here while I suspect he will swing off of Orton's nutsack if Neckbeard manages to chuck for 3,500 yards, and miss the playoffs with essentially the same personnel. Because Dilfer's motivation is clearly more inclined towards a scathing criticism of Cutler while ignoring Orton's regression, McKid's inability to get what was a top tier offense into a scoring mode and the fact that even the sack suckable tandem of Favre and Manning have had their own 20 pick struggles means that Dilfer's analysis is myopic and essentially worthless as an instructive piece.

Same personal ??? have you looked at the roster?

misturanderson
11-25-2009, 09:01 AM
Having said that, Shanahan did not make Cutler a better QB. He was just willing to put up with his mistakes because Jay provided him with the occasional "WOW" moments IMHO.
The only time that cutler has shown any improvement in his game was between his rookie year and his second year. His stats got better between his 2nd and 3rd year, but his TD/Int ratio stayed the same and his completion % stayed the same (with a significantly better supporting cast). The only reason his stats improved is because he got sacked way less and he threw way more balls.

Cutler has shown no ability to improve his game since he entered the league, so I'm not sure why all of his supporters thinks he will get better all of a sudden.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 09:02 AM
Same personal ??? have you looked at the roster?

Essentially it is the same, at least as starters are concerned and specifically as far as Dilfer's criticism is concerned.

Marshall
Stokley
Royal
Scheffler
Clady
Hamilton
Wiegman
Harris
Kuper
Graham

Now, granted we've changed from our RBBCx7 to a RBBC with Moreno...Maybe that accounts for the turd out in production and absence of a running game.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 09:11 AM
Pound sand douche. You've done nothing to address the legitimate beefs presented time and again regarding offensive production. As long as you can cast aspersions on Cutler that is enough for you. You're like a jilted lover.

I've said trading Jay was a bad move. For 6 weeks I was told to eat **** and that was fine. Maybe I was wrong. But now it appears I may not have been so wrong after all.

"pound sand douche." Is that what you call addressing an issue?

WE ARE A REBUILDING TEAM. We would have been rebuilding with Cutler, but instead we're rebuilding with Orton. I'm not sure what sort of validation you're desperately searching for in life.

Cutler has played like ****. Do you really believe he'd be doing great here in Denver? I mean, really??

If so, you're much dumber than I thought.

baja
11-25-2009, 09:16 AM
You seem to forget that John Elway was called a whiney crybaby, a player incapable to winning the big game, a player that whined his way off of one team in order to get to another. A player benched at one point for his terrible play.

He persevered, and look how it turned out. 95% of America had written him off.


I'm not saying that he is the same player or is even capable of being in the same league as one of the all time greats. What I am saying, however, is that a spurned Broncos fans' perception might not be the place to go for an even keeled, thoughtful analysis of the situation.

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy going on around here regarding criticizing a crybaby QB who whined his way out off of one team because he didn't like the way it was being run in order to get to another team. The best player in Broncos history did the same thing, morons.


You are a fool if you are willing to write off a 26 year old player as talented as Cutler is simply for showing immaturity, or an ego, or based on innuendo.

We will see how it plays out.

All Elway said was he'd rather play baseball for the Yankees than football for Frank Kush and the Colts. That is very different than what Cutler pulled.

jhns
11-25-2009, 09:18 AM
All Elway said was he'd rather play baseball for the Yankees than football for Frank Kush and the Colts. That is very different than what Cutler pulled.

Then later in his career he said: "The head coach goes or I go."

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 09:19 AM
Then later in his career he said: "The head coach goes or I go."

And by that point, he'd led his team to three Super Bowls. Not a career sub-.500 record.

SJ Bronco
11-25-2009, 09:19 AM
All Elway said was he'd rather play baseball for the Yankees than football for Frank Kush and the Colts. That is very different than what Cutler pulled.

Funny someone would mention that, i still have the SI cover that says "Grow up" and has John Elway and Dan Reeves on the cover. That whole thing seemed similar to me

jhns
11-25-2009, 09:21 AM
If so, you're much dumber than I thought.

Why are you calling this guy dumb in every post and then still arguing with him? You know that means you also are dumb, right? I mean, what exactly do you think of a person if you see them arguing with a retard even after saying they know they are slow? I don't think of that person as a smart individual.

Really though, you need to get past the 5th grade style of arguing.

SJ Bronco
11-25-2009, 09:25 AM
Why are you calling this guy dumb in every post and then still arguing with him? You know that means you also are dumb, right? I mean, what exactly do you think of a person if you see them arguing with a retard even after saying they know they are slow? I don't think of that person as a smart individual.

Really though, you need to get past the 5th grade style of arguing.

Yeah, i get sick of everyone jumping right to the "you don't know what your talking about" or "your an idiot" comments when they debate. Why debate with someone if you have no real argument? Just name calling. Also, in order to debate, you have to acknowledge the other persons point of view. If you can't adjust foresight to that, don't argue, it's an exercise in futility...

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 09:26 AM
"pound sand douche." Is that what you call addressing an issue?

WE ARE A REBUILDING TEAM. We would have been rebuilding with Cutler, but instead we're rebuilding with Orton. I'm not sure what sort of validation you're desperately searching for in life.

Cutler has played like ****. Do you really believe he'd be doing great here in Denver? I mean, really??

If so, you're much dumber than I thought.

So now we're rebuilding. Funny, McKid never mentioned that. So this will be the excuse for The Schnide going forward, rebuilding? Roger Dodger.

I think Cutler would be an upgrade over Orton and put Denver in a better position to win games and make a real run at a division title. If you think Sex Cannon's career backup is the upgrade then I'm not entirely sure how you manage to convert oxygen into CO2.

Firing Shanny was about getting better, making it to the playoffs. If McKid can't do that then it is on him. The entire world knew Denver's chief woes were on D and the biggest move McKid made was to get "his guy" at the QB position. He got a guy, but he also shipped Cutler. His call. His choice. His responsibility.

But more than all of that, Where. Is. The. F'ing. Running. Game? Where. Is. The. Offensive. Genius? Where. Are. The. Points?

These are legitimate concerns with McKid and his ability to coach this club and make sound decisions. He, and the offense, has shown little progress before beginning the slide into this pit of ineptitude.

jhns
11-25-2009, 09:29 AM
And by that point, he'd led his team to three Super Bowls. Not a career sub-.500 record.

That is very true and you will never see me say Bowlen made the wrong decision.

baja
11-25-2009, 09:40 AM
Essentially it is the same, at least as starters are concerned and specifically as far as Dilfer's criticism is concerned.

Marshall
Stokley
Royal
Scheffler
Clady
Hamilton
Wiegman
Harris
Kuper
Graham

Now, granted we've changed from our RBBCx7 to a RBBC with Moreno...Maybe that accounts for the turd out in production and absence of a running game.

Yes but you are comparing the won/loss records of the two seasons so you need to factor in the defensive starters as well and that is massively changed.

baja
11-25-2009, 09:44 AM
Then later in his career he said: "The head coach goes or I go."

Yes but that was after several seasons of being misused by Reeves and watching Reeves draft a QB with the first pick instead of drafting what was needed a receiver while Cutler didn't even give McD a training camp to prove himself to Jay.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 09:45 AM
Yes but you are comparing the won/loss records of the two seasons so you need to factor in the defensive starters as well and that is massively changed.

No, I was criticizing Dilfer's cherry picking of offensive stats and the fact that he dismisses Cutler's 4,500 yds passing, the basis of which was effectively that anybody could do that with the line and receivers Denver has. Dilfer says that while he would swing off of Orton/McKid's nutsack if Neckbeard tossed for 3,500. That is my thesis and the genesis of my argument that Dilfer's point is myopic and misguided and wrongly critical of Cutler in this regard and essentially worthless as a topic. Or some such, I have a previous post in the thread that lays it out better but it's the day before Thanksgiving and I'm just not in search mode. I'm screwing off in a number of ways at the same time.

baja
11-25-2009, 09:48 AM
Yeah, i get sick of everyone jumping right to the "you don't know what your talking about" or "your an idiot" comments when they debate. Why debate with someone if you have no real argument? Just name calling. Also, in order to debate, you have to acknowledge the other persons point of view. If you can't adjust foresight to that, don't argue, it's an exercise in futility...

Did you have your corn flakes today?

baja
11-25-2009, 09:50 AM
So now we're rebuilding. Funny, McKid never mentioned that. So this will be the excuse for The Schnide going forward, rebuilding? Roger Dodger.

I think Cutler would be an upgrade over Orton and put Denver in a better position to win games and make a real run at a division title. If you think Sex Cannon's career backup is the upgrade then I'm not entirely sure how you manage to convert oxygen into CO2.

Firing Shanny was about getting better, making it to the playoffs. If McKid can't do that then it is on him. The entire world knew Denver's chief woes were on D and the biggest move McKid made was to get "his guy" at the QB position. He got a guy, but he also shipped Cutler. His call. His choice. His responsibility.

But more than all of that, Where. Is. The. F'ing. Running. Game? Where. Is. The. Offensive. Genius? Where. Are. The. Points?

These are legitimate concerns with McKid and his ability to coach this club and make sound decisions. He, and the offense, has shown little progress before beginning the slide into this pit of ineptitude.

Harris being out has really affected this O.

SJ Bronco
11-25-2009, 09:55 AM
Did you have your corn flakes today?

Is it 2 O'clock yet?

elsid13
11-25-2009, 09:58 AM
Harris being out has really affected this O.

missing Harris hasn't been the problem, the lack of commitment to the running game has been the problem.

tsiguy96
11-25-2009, 10:02 AM
no point in arguing with a supposed raider hater. he clearly has jays weiner firmly implanted in places we dont want to know about.

BlaK-Argentina
11-25-2009, 10:03 AM
Clearly you don't recognize the superior offensive talent that Cutler would have in Denver vs. what he has in Chicago. "Take his balls of their face..." Get f'd dipsh$t.

The Kyle Orton you hate so much had arguably worse talent last year and he did better than your boy Cutler. BTW I love that you took the "balls" comment so personal. Name calling and insults are always a great way to show how smart you are and how good an argument you have.

jhns
11-25-2009, 10:08 AM
no point in arguing with a supposed raider hater. he clearly has jays weiner firmly implanted in places we dont want to know about.

Why are you always bringing up Jays private areas? Is there something you are trying to tell us?

tsiguy96
11-25-2009, 10:11 AM
Why are you always bringing up Jays private areas? Is there something you are trying to tell us?

"always"?

jhns
11-25-2009, 10:13 AM
Harris being out has really affected this O.

This I can agree with. This offense still hasn't been in the top half of the league in scoring at any point this season. Harris was there for most of that. This offense has problems that need to be figured out. The injuries hurt but the problems have been there since before any injury.
Just to be clear, since I have argued in favor of Jay a lot, I'm not we wouldn't have these problems with Jay.

jhns
11-25-2009, 10:14 AM
"always"?

Is that a new word to you? The meaning would be: "all the time".

rastaman
11-25-2009, 10:32 AM
Bret Farve is a winner, Jay Cutler is not.

Bret has "it"

Jay has "isn't"

Bret Farve early in his career was not a winner. And when Farve finally started winning it was due to the system and the talented players he had around him.

Point is with Cutler, Dilfer was spot on with his analysis. But also, Dilfer didn't go out on the limb and say Cutler was another "Jeff George". Dilfer basically identified Jays weakenesses and would also say should Jay correct those weaknesses there's no reason Cutler can't be a top 5 QB in the NFL.

Of course like any QB, to get to the next level Cutler will need to play in a system that exploits his talents as well as be surrounded by talent on both sides of the line. I'm not closing the book on Cutler just yet b/c it would be a bit pre-mature to do so. After all, its not like Jay is 30 something and continues to make the same mistakes as he did in his 20's.

Thus far Cutler has exactly 3.5 years expericence as a starter and is playing with a new team, new scheme and new players. Like Orton, it will take at least two seasons to become knowlegeable and comfortable with.

By the end of the 09 season with the exception of Interceptions to TD ratios there are strong indications that both Cutler and Orton will have similar stats as well as be fairly close in win-lose records.

Next season both Cutler and Orton will be under the microscope to see if they can lead their respective teams to the next level. So McDaniel's isn't out of the woods yet for necessarily trading Cutler for Orton; its just too early to tell right now.

broncocalijohn
11-25-2009, 10:35 AM
You seem to forget that John Elway was called a whiney crybaby, a player incapable to winning the big game, a player that whined his way off of one team in order to get to another. A player benched at one point for his terrible play.

He persevered, and look how it turned out. 95% of America had written him off.

[/B]

You are a fool if you are willing to write off a 26 year old player as talented as Cutler is simply for showing immaturity, or an ego, or based on innuendo.

We will see how it plays out.

95% wrote him off? Oh please show me any stats, Sports Ill. article, etc. that stated this. Cutler had less hype on him than Elway. No one cared that Cutler was at a bar on halloween like what candy Elway past out. Plus, Elway had good years under Wade (and most definately better tahn 91 and 92) and we finally got to see what he can do when given the opportunity to throw it a ton.

rastaman
11-25-2009, 10:49 AM
Pound sand douche. You've done nothing to address the legitimate beefs presented time and again regarding offensive production. As long as you can cast aspersions on Cutler that is enough for you. You're like a jilted lover.

I've said trading Jay was a bad move. For 6 weeks I was told to eat **** and that was fine. Maybe I was wrong. But now it appears I may not have been so wrong after all.

I think you are spot on. The Jay haters still need to brace themselves for an epic melt down with our Broncos after starting out 6-0. McDaniels Broncos could end the season with 8 to 10 consecutive loses. Are the Cutler haters going to blame Cutler should the 09 Broncos break the NFL record for a team starting out 6-0 and finish the season 6-10, 7-9, or 8-8.

Even finishing the season 9-7 is a stretch! b/c the two games with KC and one with Oak remaining are not for sure wins for Denver at this stage in the season.

These games are rivalries and at the end of the season both KC and Oakland are simply playing better football than they were in Sept and Oct. Its highly unlikely w/o a miracle that Orton can lead Denver to victories over the NYG, Indy, and the Eagles.

So unless Denver can beat KC twice! and sweep Oakland, Denver is in danger of losing 10 consecutive games after going 6-0! That my friends is an NFL record.

TailgateNut
11-25-2009, 10:53 AM
I think you are spot on. The Jay haters still need to brace themselves for an epic melt down with our Broncos after starting out 6-0. McDaniels Broncos could end the season with 8 to 10 consecutive loses. Are the Cutler haters going to blame Cutler should the 09 Broncos break the NFL record for a team starting out 6-0 and finish the season 6-10, 7-9, or 8-8.

Even finishing the season 9-7 is a stretch! b/c the two games with KC and one with Oak remaining are not for sure wins for Denver at this stage in the season.

These games are rivalries and at the end of the season both KC and Oakland are simply playing better football than they were in Sept and Oct. Its highly unlikely w/o a miracle that Orton can lead Denver to victories over the NYG, Indy, and the Eagles.

So unless Denver can beat KC twice! and sweep Oakland, Denver is in danger of losing 10 consecutive games after going 6-0! That my friends is an NFL record.

Considering your prediction success to date, I'm not too concerned that we will go 0-10 after winning 6.

You were wrong about your boyfriend and were wrong about Orton.

Back to the bong!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 10:54 AM
I think you are spot on. The Jay haters still need to brace themselves for an epic melt down with our Broncos after starting out 6-0. McDaniels Broncos could end the season with 8 to 10 consecutive loses. Are the Cutler haters going to blame Cutler should the 09 Broncos break the NFL record for a team starting out 6-0 and finish the season 6-10, 7-9, or 8-8.

Even finishing the season 9-7 is a stretch! b/c the two games with KC and one with Oak remaining are not for sure wins for Denver at this stage in the season.

These games are rivalries and at the end of the season both KC and Oakland are simply playing better football than they were in Sept and Oct. Its highly unlikely w/o a miracle that Orton can lead Denver to victories over the NYG, Indy, and the Eagles.

So unless Denver can beat KC twice! and sweep Oakland, Denver is in danger of losing 10 consecutive games after going 6-0! That my friends is an NFL record.

Now why on earth would a Broncos fan be excited at that possibility, as you very clearly are?

We will beat KC twice and beat Oakland at home.

And I think tomorrow's game against the vagiants will be our finest hour.

RaiderH8r
11-25-2009, 10:54 AM
no point in arguing with a supposed raider hater. he clearly has jays weiner firmly implanted in places we dont want to know about.

And you've got your head so far up your ass that the lump in your throat is your nose.

rastaman
11-25-2009, 11:07 AM
Considering your prediction success to date, I'm not too concerned that we will go 0-10 after winning 6.

You were wrong about your boyfriend and were wrong about Orton.

Back to the bong!

How am I wrong about Orton? Has he not had 4 consecutive loses thus far? What gives you a warm fuzzy feeling that Kyle can lead the offense to score enough points to even beat KC and Oakland at this stage?

You know dam well the Chiefs won't be easy to beat once let alone an Orton led offense sweeping the Chiefs. So you should be concerned about going 0-10....I for one am very concerned about the likelihood of losing 10 consecutive games.

Tell you what O'Brite One......please let me know when you're concerned about the possibility of losing 10 consecutive games!

TailgateNut
11-25-2009, 11:09 AM
How am I wrong about Orton? Has he not had 4 consecutive loses thus far? What gives you a warm fuzzy feeling that Kyle can lead the offense to score enough points to even beat KC and Oakland at this stage?

You know dam well the Chiefs won't be easy to beat once let alone an Orton led offense sweeping the Chiefs. So you should be concerned about going 0-10....I for one am very concerned about the likelihood of losing 10 consecutive games.

Tell you what O'Brite One......please let me know when you're concerned about the possibility of losing 10 consecutive games!


Don't hold your breath (except when hitting your bongROFL!).

rastaman
11-25-2009, 11:15 AM
Now why on earth would a Broncos fan be excited at that possibility, as you very clearly are?

We will beat KC twice and beat Oakland at home.

And I think tomorrow's game against the vagiants will be our finest hour.

I'm not excited....far from it. I'm just a realist and living in the now. Why not discuss the possibility of losing to KC twice and Oakland once. Neither teams are playing like they were in Sept, Oct, and early November!

Kyle has not shown that he can lead the offense to enough scores to even beat Oakland and KC at this stage. Unless I'm missing something....please give me the scenario of how we beat KC twice and Oakland once. Besides I'm only talking about Kyle and the offense. We haven't started talking about how the Defense now appears shell shocked and worn down. So either Kyle and the Offensive inconsistencies can cause Denver to be Swept by KC and split with Oakland or the Defense will play a role in doing so.

Beantown Bronco
11-25-2009, 11:15 AM
So unless Denver can beat KC twice! and sweep Oakland, Denver is in danger of losing 10 consecutive games after going 6-0! That my friends is an NFL record.

Why does a team have to win 3 games out of its last 10 to keep from losing all 10? Wouldn't 1 suffice?

I'd like to speak with your math teachers. They failed you.

rastaman
11-25-2009, 11:18 AM
Don't hold your breath (except when hitting your bongROFL!).

Bongs aside.........I hope I'm wrong. But Denver's offense had better start rolling....starting tomorrow against the New York, and sweep with KC and sweeping Oak or we could be looking at a 10 game losing streak to end the season.

TonyR
11-25-2009, 11:21 AM
Bret Farve early in his career was not a winner.

No? Here are his first five years as a starter:
8-5
9-7
9-7
11-5
13-3

rastaman
11-25-2009, 11:26 AM
Why does a team have to win 3 games out of its last 10 to keep from losing all 10? Wouldn't 1 suffice?

I'd like to speak with your math teachers. They failed you.

Bean.....listen up. I'm not hoping we lose--the reality is it could happen, especially after the scenario of the last 4 losses.

Denver has already lost 4 straight. KC and Oakland are starting to gel at the end of the season just in time to play the Broncos down the stretch. Orton and the Offense can't score and the Defense has lost confidence and is getting worn down.

To me that doesn't sound very likely of Denver getting any wins down the stretch. Everyone told me to go smoke my Bong when I predicted Wash to beat Denver. I predicted SD would beat us. And now I predict a loss against the Giants tomorrow. And it all steams from the fact that the offense ain't getting it done and Defense is getting worn down and collapsing in the 4th qtr b/c the offense inability to move the ball is wearing down the offense.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 11:28 AM
I'm not excited....far from it. I'm just a realist and living in the now. Why not discuss the possibility of losing to KC twice and Oakland once. Neither teams are playing like they were in Sept, Oct, and early November!

Kyle has not shown that he can lead the offense to enough scores to even beat Oakland and KC at this stage. Unless I'm missing something....please give me the scenario of how we beat KC twice and Oakland once. Besides I'm only talking about Kyle and the offense. We haven't started talking about how the Defense now appears shell shocked and worn down. So either Kyle and the Offensive inconsistencies can cause Denver to be Swept by KC and split with Oakland or the Defense will play a role in doing so.

You are excited. You're defending your points as if you just reallyreallyreally want them to come true.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 11:30 AM
Bean.....listen up. I'm not hoping we lose--the reality is it could happen, especially after the scenario of the last 4 losses.

Denver has already lost 4 straight. KC and Oakland are starting to gel at the end of the season just in time to play the Broncos down the stretch. Orton and the Offense can't score and the Defense has lost confidence and is getting worn down.

To me that doesn't sound very likely of Denver getting any wins down the stretch. Everyone told me to go smoke my Bong when I predicted Wash to beat Denver. I predicted SD would beat us. And now I predict a loss against the Giants tomorrow. And it all steams from the fact that the offense ain't getting it done and Defense is getting worn down and collapsing in the 4th qtr b/c the offense inability to move the ball is wearing down the offense.

Yes, it COULD happen. An asteroid could fall out of the sky tomorrow night and land at the 50. That COULD happen. So COULD Denver winning out. So COULD Denver losing out. The greatest probability is somewhere in the middle.

oubronco
11-25-2009, 11:31 AM
No? Here are his first five years as a starter:
8-5
9-7
9-7
11-5
13-3

owned

Beantown Bronco
11-25-2009, 11:33 AM
Bean.....listen up. I'm not hoping we lose--the reality is it could happen, especially after the scenario of the last 4 losses.

Denver has already lost 4 straight. KC and Oakland are starting to gel at the end of the season just in time to play the Broncos down the stretch. Orton and the Offense can't score and the Defense has lost confidence and is getting worn down.

To me that doesn't sound very likely of Denver getting any wins down the stretch. Everyone told me to go smoke my Bong when I predicted Wash to beat Denver. I predicted SD would beat us. And now I predict a loss against the Giants tomorrow. And it all steams from the fact that the offense ain't getting it done and Defense is getting worn down and collapsing in the 4th qtr b/c the offense inability to move the ball is wearing down the offense.

Great Rasta.....but this has absolutely nothing to do with your statement that I was specifically responding to where you said that the Broncos would have to win THREE games to avoid losing 10 in a row.....not just ONE game.

rastaman
11-25-2009, 11:41 AM
You are excited. You're defending your points as if you just reallyreallyreally want them to come true.

And for some reason unexplained you and your ilk seem to be in denial and hope if you don't negative or state the obvious, somehow this adds up to miracle wins.

Tell you what O'brite one. If your offense can't score enough points and move the ball consistently to take pressure off your Defense; and your D is worn down by the 4th Qtr due to the Offense hanging the D out to dry, how is that thinking negative and wishing for the worse??

What we are seeing is a receipe for disaster! We haven't even considered the possibility of the Giants pass rush injuring Kyle's ankle for the remainder of the season!!! This season is getting uglier with each game left on the schedule.

rastaman
11-25-2009, 11:45 AM
Great Rasta.....but this has absolutely nothing to do with your statement that I was specifically responding to where you said that the Broncos would have to win THREE games to avoid losing 10 in a row.....not just ONE game.

Bean it was based on its highly unlikely that Denver beats Indy, NYG, and Philly. Then should Denver go on to lose to KC twice and Okland one more time, this equals 6 loses in conjunction with 4 game losing streak we already have. Thats the point I was trying to make. Simply put, this team is in dire straights right now.

Remember the Chiefs and Cassel look to be hitting their stride and the change at QB in Oakland will make the Raiders tough to beat as well.

Beantown Bronco
11-25-2009, 11:46 AM
Once again, you are completely missing my point. Read the portion of your post that I quoted.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-25-2009, 11:50 AM
And for some reason unexplained you and your ilk seem to be in denial and hope if you don't negative or state the obvious, somehow this adds up to miracle wins.

Tell you what O'brite one. If your offense can't score enough points and move the ball consistently to take pressure off your Defense; and your D is worn down by the 4th Qtr due to the Offense hanging the D out to dry, how is that thinking negative and wishing for the worse??

What we are seeing is a receipe for disaster! We haven't even considered the possibility of the Giants pass rush injuring Kyle's ankle for the remainder of the season!!! This season is getting uglier with each game left on the schedule.

You mean someone could get injured in the NFL? Well we should just pull the whole team off the field to avoid that possibility. /rolleyes

You're right. We should just give up on the season because the struggles of four weeks cannot possibly be addressed and improved moving forward, can they?

I mean, we won six straight, so we won all our games, right? Er... wait, that would be faulty logic.

So would "We've lost four! We're going to lose the rest!" It's bad logic, Rasta. I'm sorry to break that to you.

Tombstone RJ
11-25-2009, 11:55 AM
So now we're rebuilding. Funny, McKid never mentioned that. So this will be the excuse for The Schnide going forward, rebuilding? Roger Dodger.

I think Cutler would be an upgrade over Orton and put Denver in a better position to win games and make a real run at a division title. If you think Sex Cannon's career backup is the upgrade then I'm not entirely sure how you manage to convert oxygen into CO2.

Firing Shanny was about getting better, making it to the playoffs. If McKid can't do that then it is on him. The entire world knew Denver's chief woes were on D and the biggest move McKid made was to get "his guy" at the QB position. He got a guy, but he also shipped Cutler. His call. His choice. His responsibility.

But more than all of that, Where. Is. The. F'ing. Running. Game? Where. Is. The. Offensive. Genius? Where. Are. The. Points?

These are legitimate concerns with McKid and his ability to coach this club and make sound decisions. He, and the offense, has shown little progress before beginning the slide into this pit of ineptitude.


To address your points I'll say this:

Offense is much harder to build than defense and when McD came to the Broncos, he brought his offensive system. You cannot deny that this team is in a total rebuild mold. Yes, it's nice the team won 6 straight games and I think everyone here was pleasantly suprised by this, I know I was basking in the glory of the new Broncos.

That being said, I also predicted an 8-8 season which IMHO is still a very good season when looking at all the changes this team is going through.

You are assuming this team would be better with Cutler and that is your prerogative. However, Jay Cutler has not proven anything when it comes to winning and getting to the playoffs. In fact, it can reasonably be argued that Cutler is turning out to be a major disappointment. Sure, you can blame Shanny's defenses for Cutler's inability to guide the Broncos to the playoffs, but I actually watched the 2008 team and I know that as bad as the Broncos' defense was, at times it played well enough for the team to win. I'll say that again, at times it played well enough for the team to win.

But, for whatever reason, the Broncos' team under Jay Cutler was mediocre at best, and flat out crappy at worst.

Now Cutler is on a team that supposedly has a good defense. He's tossing INTs, he's pouting, he's blaming everyone else and the team is 4-6. What does that tell you?

I know what it tells me: Thank You Orton, Good Riddance Cutler

I'm Old School and I believe in Team First. Orton is a Team First guy and Culter is a Me First guy.

If you can't see that now, then you'll probably never see it.

TonyR
11-25-2009, 12:02 PM
Just for lex:

Q: I just watched Jay Cutler walk on to the field with two minutes left, down by four points (to the Eagles), with his shoulders slumped and his chin to his chest. When Peyton Manning walks on the field in that spot you can tell the Colts are headed for a successful drive. I would wager anything that this Cutler drive will end with an interception or at the very least a turnover on downs. We need a word or phrase for the intuitive sense that all good sports fans have for what's about to happen. Can you help me out?
-- Connor, South Portland, 8:33:01 PT, Sunday night

SG: You nailed it. He threw the pick about two minutes after you pressed "SEND." As for the phrase, I would go with this one: E.S.Poo.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnflpicks/091125

broncocalijohn
11-25-2009, 12:50 PM
How am I wrong about Orton? Has he not had 4 consecutive loses thus far? What gives you a warm fuzzy feeling that Kyle can lead the offense to score enough points to even beat KC and Oakland at this stage?

You know dam well the Chiefs won't be easy to beat once let alone an Orton led offense sweeping the Chiefs. So you should be concerned about going 0-10....I for one am very concerned about the likelihood of losing 10 consecutive games.

Tell you what O'Brite One......please let me know when you're concerned about the possibility of losing 10 consecutive games!

so you give the loss on Orton when he was leading the team to victory and snatched by Simms and then he comes in the game lame losing 13-0 and you give him that loss. Boy, I know you hate Orton but be a little unbiased when doing a post. If he deserves negative comments, make it at least fair. Clearly you learned from the political stations on how to slant your facts to your biased way of thinking (opinion).

Circle Orange
11-25-2009, 01:31 PM
Bret Farve early in his career was not a winner. And when Farve finally started winning it was due to the system and the talented players he had around him.

Point is with Cutler, Dilfer was spot on with his analysis. But also, Dilfer didn't go out on the limb and say Cutler was another "Jeff George". Dilfer basically identified Jays weakenesses and would also say should Jay correct those weaknesses there's no reason Cutler can't be a top 5 QB in the NFL.

Of course like any QB, to get to the next level Cutler will need to play in a system that exploits his talents as well as be surrounded by talent on both sides of the line. I'm not closing the book on Cutler just yet b/c it would be a bit pre-mature to do so. After all, its not like Jay is 30 something and continues to make the same mistakes as he did in his 20's.

Thus far Cutler has exactly 3.5 years expericence as a starter and is playing with a new team, new scheme and new players. Like Orton, it will take at least two seasons to become knowlegeable and comfortable with.

By the end of the 09 season with the exception of Interceptions to TD ratios there are strong indications that both Cutler and Orton will have similar stats as well as be fairly close in win-lose records.

Next season both Cutler and Orton will be under the microscope to see if they can lead their respective teams to the next level. So McDaniel's isn't out of the woods yet for necessarily trading Cutler for Orton; its just too early to tell right now.

No quarterback has ever been successful with a double chin.

Under the current rules in the NFL, 5,000 yard seasons are around the corner. Don't confuse inflated numbers with greatness.

Circle Orange
11-25-2009, 01:33 PM
And by that point, he'd led his team to three Super Bowls. Not a career sub-.500 record.

For goodness sake, will people STOP bringing up facts? Let's just keep going with asinine Elway/Cutler comparisons. *eyeroll*

BTW, I forgot to mention his cannon arm...can throw turds through a loaf of bread...!Booya!

Circle Orange
11-25-2009, 01:35 PM
You seem to forget that John Elway was called a whiney crybaby, a player incapable to winning the big game, a player that whined his way off of one team in order to get to another. A player benched at one point for his terrible play.

He persevered, and look how it turned out. 95% of America had written him off.


I'm not saying that he is the same player or is even capable of being in the same league as one of the all time greats. What I am saying, however, is that a spurned Broncos fans' perception might not be the place to go for an even keeled, thoughtful analysis of the situation.

I am also pointing out the hypocrisy going on around here regarding criticizing a crybaby QB who whined his way out off of one team because he didn't like the way it was being run in order to get to another team. The best player in Broncos history did the same thing, morons.


You are a fool if you are willing to write off a 26 year old player as talented as Cutler is simply for showing immaturity, or an ego, or based on innuendo.

We will see how it plays out.

We'll also leave out the fact Cutler isn't near the athlete Elway was. But again, what the frick...we'll all just cherry pick stuff to our satisfaction.

TonyR
11-25-2009, 02:59 PM
Jay Cutler: "I haven't played up to my expectations"
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 25, 2009 4:03 PM ET

The Chicago Bears thought they were getting one of the league's elite quarterbacks when they traded for Jay Cutler this season. Suffice to say, they haven't gotten what they expected.

And suffice to say Cutler hasn't played the way he expected, either.

"I haven't played up to my expectations," Cutler said. "I think that's the most important part. I can play better. I know that. It's a process, though. I think everyone in the offense knows what we're trying to get done. We're dressing young guys. We've got some new guys and we're still trying to gel a little bit. It's going to come though."

For the Bears, it's certainly good to know that Cutler hasn't lived up to his own expectations. If Cutler -- who's leading the league in total interceptions, red zone interceptions, fourth quarter interceptions and third down interceptions -- had expected to play like this, the Bears would have even bigger problems.

Still, when Cutler starts to talk about "young guys" and "new guys," there's a faint whiff of excuse-making going on. Cutler has come across as nonchalant when discussing his lousy play this season, and he still seems at times like he fails to grasp how big a disappointment he's been.

Cutler says he's not surprised that fans in Chicago have booed him.

"When they made the trade, we knew it was going to happen," Cutler said. "They gave away a lot to get me here. Expectations were high, so it's something that comes with the territory."

Booing comes with the territory, that is, if those high expectations aren't met. In Chicago, Cutler isn't playing up to anyone's expectations.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/25/jay-cutler-i-havent-played-up-to-my-expectations/