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watermock
11-23-2009, 01:36 PM
Just sayin'

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Meck77
11-23-2009, 01:37 PM
Even tater could break off 2k in that system.

OBF1
11-23-2009, 01:56 PM
Heck with that............... Meck could break off 2k in that system :)

Peoples Champ
11-23-2009, 02:00 PM
there is one thing I see constant in that video, almost every highlight is against the Lions, 2-8 lions. Big deal.

He fumbled too much with us

Rulon Velvet Jones
11-23-2009, 02:01 PM
What a stretch.

But not shocking coming from Mock.

Ray Finkle
11-23-2009, 02:02 PM
any RB can have success when the QB and receivers are that lethal....

Grover
11-23-2009, 02:10 PM
Mike Bell had his chance with us and he blew it because he got fat and lazy.
Blew it with the Texans too, they had him and he was too fat to play.

Then the light bulb must have gone on because he turned it around. Not too late for his career, but way to late for the Broncos.

watermock
11-23-2009, 02:13 PM
Yeah yeah,

He's done more than our 3 first rounders with Bush on the bench.

DHallblows
11-23-2009, 02:19 PM
there is one thing I see constant in that video, almost every highlight is against the Lions, 2-8 lions. Big deal.

He fumbled too much with us

::) Oh brother. Do you just believe everything you read on The Mane? I bet you loved JMFW and thought Torain was the next TD?

I'll assume you didn't know Mike had one fumL in 173 carries for us? I bet you really think Knowshon is overrated...

bap454
11-23-2009, 02:19 PM
Why Mock? Just why?

Dagmar
11-23-2009, 02:20 PM
Yeah yeah,

He's done more than our 3 first rounders with Bush on the bench.

Who made the roster decision to cut him mock, was it McDaniels?

NYBronco
11-23-2009, 02:21 PM
Maurice Clarett would do well in that system.

watermock
11-23-2009, 02:35 PM
All I know is he wouldn't of cost us #12 or whatever.

Dagmar
11-23-2009, 02:38 PM
All I know is he wouldn't of cost us #12 or whatever.

Right. Shanahan got rid of him. Was McD not supposed to have a RB?

watermock
11-23-2009, 02:49 PM
Go buy a Snuggie.

Dagmar
11-23-2009, 02:55 PM
Go buy a Snuggie.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w262/gator_momma/Applause.gif

bombay
11-23-2009, 02:57 PM
I like Mike Bell and hope he does well and gets wealthy playing football. For one thing, he's a Broncos fan.

Beantown Bronco
11-23-2009, 03:04 PM
Mike Bell runs against 5 and 6 men in the box. Our RBs run against 8 and 9 men in the box. Next.

_Oro_
11-23-2009, 03:07 PM
To be fair, most of those runs are against Detroit.

Beantown Bronco
11-23-2009, 03:10 PM
To be fair, most of those runs are against Detroit.

Bingo.

And look at the Broncos schedule this year. Here are the run defense rankings of their opponents:

1, 2, 5, 7, and 15. I'd like to see what Bell would do against those units stacking the box. Yikes.

azbroncfan
11-24-2009, 01:10 PM
What does Mike Bell have to do with new MCD regime?

bpc
11-24-2009, 01:45 PM
Mike Bell has better pure rushing instincts as a runner vs. Knowshon Moreno.

Garcia Bronco
11-24-2009, 01:46 PM
Mike Bell is a bum.

TonyR
11-24-2009, 02:01 PM
Mike Bell has better pure rushing instincts as a runner vs. Knowshon Moreno.

So, hypothetically, do you think if Denver offers the Saints Moreno for Bell they'd turn it down?

barryr
11-24-2009, 02:34 PM
Shanahan benched and ultimately cut Mike Bell(he even tried to make Bell a FB) and he joined the Saints towards the end of last season, so not sure how that helps the Broncos now.

Popps
11-24-2009, 03:07 PM
Wow, Mock. What a sad existence.

Popps
11-24-2009, 03:09 PM
Mike Bell has better pure rushing instincts as a runner vs. Knowshon Moreno.

ROFL!

You come to this conclusion, how?

Because of Mike Bell's stellar NFL career?

How long has he been in the league? How many bang-up seasons has he had?


Moreno has 10 games under his belt in rotation, and you've made a definitive career assessment on him. Okee dokee.

2KBack
11-24-2009, 03:43 PM
I don't care who he is playing against, he has made some NFL defenders look pretty damn silly this season.

barryr
11-24-2009, 03:44 PM
Mike Bell has played well and it would have been nice to have had him around, but thank Shanahan for not playing him and cutting him.

oubronco
11-24-2009, 06:08 PM
Mike Bell runs against 5 and 6 men in the box. Our RBs run against 8 and 9 men in the box. Next.

The reason Bell has Brees Moreno has Orton

Don Flamenco
11-24-2009, 09:29 PM
Mike Bell has better pure rushing instincts as a runner vs. Knowshon Moreno.

This

elsid13
11-25-2009, 05:04 AM
Mike Bell has played well and it would have been nice to have had him around, but thank Shanahan for not playing him and cutting him.

Evidently, there was more to the story then we know. Bell didn't take the first off season seriously as he should have, spent a little to much time partying in Tucson and not enough time training. Came in out of shape during mini-camps and such. Which is a shame since he has some very good talent. Lucky for him he saw the light and has come back dedicated to his profession.

To the other question what does Bell do better then Moreno. Bell has better feet in the hole, better vision, runs with better pad level and is more explosive when he gets the ball off the hand off. Moreno is better catching the ball and might have better movement in space and little more open field speed. But Moreno could benefit a lot watching how Bell plays and trying to be like him some parts of his game.

rastaman
11-25-2009, 05:17 AM
Mike Bell runs against 5 and 6 men in the box. Our RBs run against 8 and 9 men in the box. Next.

Our RB's run against 8 and 9 men in the box b/c opposing teams know Orton don't fear Orton's arm and passing ability. Teams feel pretty dam confident that Orton can't beat them with the pass.

kappys
11-25-2009, 06:14 AM
Good forMike Bell that he turned it around but lets be real here. Its not as if we cut ChrisJohnson or Adrian Peterson. Bell is having a nice season with a high powered offense but I doubt he'd be any better than Knowshown or Correll.

Hogan11
11-25-2009, 06:50 AM
Bell was never anything special. People loved him because he was a Broncos fan and worshipped TD and while that's pretty cool, that doesn't automatically make him more than he is, which is average at best.

Dukes
11-25-2009, 06:58 AM
Our RB's run against 8 and 9 men in the box b/c opposing teams know Orton don't fear Orton's arm and passing ability. Teams feel pretty dam confident that Orton can't beat them with the pass.

Did you come up with that all by yourself?

bpc
11-25-2009, 09:11 AM
ROFL!

You come to this conclusion, how?

Because of Mike Bell's stellar NFL career?

How long has he been in the league? How many bang-up seasons has he had?


Moreno has 10 games under his belt in rotation, and you've made a definitive career assessment on him. Okee dokee.

It's simple. I watched Mike Bell during his rookie year, duh. He looked better that year running the ball than Knowshon does. Knowshon looks slow and has poor vision. While Mike Bell has several holes in his game (catching/blocking), he's a much better PURE back running the ball. He looks faster and has better vision. He sets up his blocks well.

Knowshon is slow, runs too high, doesn't show much in the way of vision, and doesn't have any power when he hits the hole, and usually goes down on 1st contact.

Knowshon just had his first 20 yd rushing carry of the season. Errrr...

We should probably look at drafting a mid-round HB this year to pair with him because I doubt whether Knowshon can fully carry a load all by himself. He could be a 1000 yd rusher but that doesn't mean much in today's NFL. It would be nice if we could get a pounder that can hit the hole between the tackles and pick up 3-5 yds on 1st down.... or we could finally make a role for Peyton Hillis who is completely able to do that.

Popps
11-25-2009, 09:41 AM
It's simple. I watched Mike Bell during his rookie year, duh. He looked better that year running the ball than Knowshon does. Knowshon looks slow and has poor vision. .

Yea, only problem is... they averaged the exact same YPC as rookies. So, as usual... this is a case of you attempting to apply some sort of undue glory to a past-regime player simply so you can bash a current regime player.

Mike Bell was such a stud, Shanahan kicked his ass to the curb. One of the best offensive minds in football got rid of him. Now, he's a back-up for another team who only sees time when the starters are injured.

Moreno will have a a better career. Sorry, bro. Your biased "analysis" will miss the mark once again.

Beantown Bronco
11-25-2009, 09:43 AM
It's amazing how two people can look at the same player and see the complete opposite things. Knowshon looks damn good out there to me. Take away the fumbles and I honestly don't see what there is to complain about. Vision issues, power issues, going down on first contact? I saw plenty of this out of guys like Tatum Bell and even Clinton Portis to some extent when he was here. But Moreno? Nope.

cmhargrove
11-25-2009, 09:59 AM
It's amazing how two people can look at the same player and see the complete opposite things. Knowshon looks damn good out there to me. Take away the fumbles and I honestly don't see what there is to complain about. Vision issues, power issues, going down on first contact? I saw plenty of this out of guys like Tatum Bell and even Clinton Portis to some extent when he was here. But Moreno? Nope.

I agree, and Moreno looks like the kind of guy that always plays hurt, always finishes a play, and tries to do everything he can to win.

Moreno should only benefit from a year in an NFL lifting program. I bet he looks like a bad ass (physically) by next year. I also think he has the personal drive, and teachability to take it up another notch.

Fix the fumbles and the slips by next year and he will be a beast.

kappys
11-25-2009, 10:39 AM
It's amazing how two people can look at the same player and see the complete opposite things. Knowshon looks damn good out there to me. Take away the fumbles and I honestly don't see what there is to complain about. Vision issues, power issues, going down on first contact? I saw plenty of this out of guys like Tatum Bell and even Clinton Portis to some extent when he was here. But Moreno? Nope.

If it wasn't for the fumbles I too would be happy.

epicSocialism4tw
11-25-2009, 12:22 PM
I like Mike Bell and hope he does well and gets wealthy playing football. For one thing, he's a Broncos fan.

Yup. Bell is a Bronco first.

I do like the fact that he's doing well in New Orleans since they got duped into Reggie "the biggest draft bust of his generation" Bush and their tortured fans deserved to have something nice materialize out of thin air.

Dedhed
11-25-2009, 03:48 PM
Mike Bell, master of the open field juke on a phantom defender, and tripping over the line of scrimmage. That's of course when he's not fumbling.

watermock
11-25-2009, 04:04 PM
The point was the scheme works for Bell. The point is you don't have to draft a franchise back or dominant lineman to run ZBS.

LG anr RT are still a problem, but would be less under the ZBS scheme.

The problems on offense is it's a Parcalls scheme W/ZBS trained players.

TonyR
11-25-2009, 04:13 PM
It's simple. I watched Mike Bell during his rookie year, duh. He looked better that year running the ball than Knowshon does.

I like Mike Bell and I'm happy that he's doing well but anybody who thinks that he is in any way a better RB than Knowshon Moreno should probably keep such nonsense to themselves. Moreno was the near consensus best RB in the 2009 draft for a reason. He needs to get better and he will, but he's already pretty good.

watermock
11-25-2009, 04:45 PM
Bell was an UDFA.

bpc
11-25-2009, 05:03 PM
Yea, only problem is... they averaged the exact same YPC as rookies. So, as usual... this is a case of you attempting to apply some sort of undue glory to a past-regime player simply so you can bash a current regime player.

Mike Bell was such a stud, Shanahan kicked his ass to the curb. One of the best offensive minds in football got rid of him. Now, he's a back-up for another team who only sees time when the starters are injured.

Moreno will have a a better career. Sorry, bro. Your biased "analysis" will miss the mark once again.

ha ha, so what if they had the same YPC? The situation is completely different. Bell was stuck in a offense which was led by noodle armed Jake Plummer and had to thrive against defenses putting 8 in the box. There was no ability to stretch the field by that offense. The unit either rushed the ball on offense to make it go or the offense stunk. Jake the SNNNNNAKE!

Mike also wasn't even the starter outside of a few games, yet he still managed to pick up over 600 yds and 8 TD's. Tatum Bell hit up 1000yds on the season.

Mike Bell also was effective around the 3rd and short mark or goalline. Knowshon doesn't have a clue hence his little production around the endzone. How many TD's does Knowshon have this year BTW?

Knowshon also has a offense built around a passing game and great receiving targets. Defenses have to gear to stop the pass, not the run. Nobody is scared by Moreno's weak running ability. Maybe they will one day but now they hardly put 6 in the box to stop this kid. Even if he breaks one, his slow 40 time only nets him about 5-10 yds before he's caught and brought down on 1st contact.

Mike Bell fumbled 1 time in 15 games for the Broncos in 2006. Knowshon has fumbled 4 times, often at critical junctures in the game, during only 10 games.

Sure, Shanahan went in a different way but round the whole deal up and results show that Mike Bell has been MUCH better during their rookie seasons.

Don't worry though... with the relative ineffectiveness of the rest of our draft class and Peyton Hillis being a Shanahan guy, i'm pretty sure McDaniels will keep feeding Knowshon the rock, no matter how crappy he's looked. He should break the 1000 yd rushing mark in Leonard Russell fashion.

BroncoBuff
11-25-2009, 05:11 PM
I don't care who he is playing against, he has made some NFL defenders look pretty damn silly this season.

This.

Bell fumbled at a crucial moment in '07, and never go outta Mike's doghouse.

That, along with Shanahan's hubris when it came to his developing running backs led to his exit. Plus I think there were some mild attitude problems, they traded quotes in the press when he was nearly waived preseason 2007.

BroncoBuff
11-25-2009, 05:12 PM
Wow, Mock. What a sad existence.

Compared to you? Always angrily taking out your personal frustrations on posters here who dare disagree with you?

I'll take mock.

TonyR
11-25-2009, 05:13 PM
Don't worry though... with the relative ineffectiveness of the rest of our draft class and Peyton Hillis being a Shanahan guy, i'm pretty sure McDaniels will keep feeding Knowshon the rock, no matter how crappy he's looked. He should break the 1000 yd rushing mark in Leonard Russell fashion.

Yes, just like Gaffney and McKinley get all the throws because Marshall and Royal are Shanahan guys... <eyeroll>

BroncoBuff
11-25-2009, 05:36 PM
Mike Bell has played well and it would have been nice to have had him around, but thank Shanahan for not playing him and cutting him.

Actually he caught alotta passes his rookie year ... if Shanahan had some patience, he could've developed into a good Michael Pittman-style back.

Then we wouldn't have been forced to sign Pittman ...

Then Pittman's old body wouldn't have broken down last year ...

Then we wouldn't have had to sign street free agents down the stretch ...

Then we wouldda won the division ...

Then Shanahan would still be here.


Ain't karma a b****?

Don Flamenco
11-25-2009, 05:42 PM
Compared to you? Always angrily taking out your personal frustrations on posters here who dare disagree with you?

I'll take mock.

Me too. Popps ****ing blows

bpc
11-25-2009, 06:21 PM
It's amazing how two people can look at the same player and see the complete opposite things. Knowshon looks damn good out there to me. Take away the fumbles and I honestly don't see what there is to complain about. Vision issues, power issues, going down on first contact? I saw plenty of this out of guys like Tatum Bell and even Clinton Portis to some extent when he was here. But Moreno? Nope.

The difference is those guys are speed backs who can hit you a home run any time they carry the ball so you take the trade off that they might go down easily.

What is Knowshon Moreno? He definitely isn't a speed back. His size indicates he should be faster than he is.

He's definitely not a power back from what i've seen this year even though he has the size to be one at 5'11", 215lbs. He run's high, is slow to the hole and has relatively poor vision vs. the upper echelon of backs in this league. When he gets to the LOS he is often tackled by linemen coming off blocks. When put one on one with an LB or safety, he rarely makes one miss or runs through that tackle.

Hey he's still young. Maybe he can get better. We'll see. Color me not impressed yet. He just got his first 20 yd carry last week. 2 TD's on the year. A pedestrian style 600 yds.

Luckily 50 yds a game the rest of the way should get him to a 1000yd season which will earn him overhyped praise from all the McDaniel lovers. :peace:

Popps
11-25-2009, 07:19 PM
Luckily 50 yds a game the rest of the way should get him to a 1000yd season which will earn him overhyped praise from all the McDaniel lovers. :peace:

Wow, Chris... good thing you go to such lengths to hide your disdain for this team.

But, you REALLY hope we win, right? That's just "analysis." You're not rooting against McDaniels.

::)

bpc
11-25-2009, 08:18 PM
Wow, Chris... good thing you go to such lengths to hide your disdain for this team.

But, you REALLY hope we win, right? That's just "analysis." You're not rooting against McDaniels.

::)

I hope we pull off the upset tomorrow.

As for our running situation, I can't figure out why Hillis has gotten any carries when he's clearly looked more explosive and powerful at the end of last season than either Knowshon or Buckhalter this year.

I know, i know, he had that fumble... well, Knowshon has had 4 fumbles this year.

Unfortunately we're just gonna keep on, keepin' on with what McDaniels think will make this offense sort of respectable.

Hogan11
11-25-2009, 08:29 PM
I'll take mock.

You do realize that sooner or later, he'll turn on you too, don't you?

Hogan11
11-25-2009, 08:30 PM
I hope we pull off the upset tomorrow.

As for our running situation, I can't figure out why Hillis has gotten any carries when he's clearly looked more explosive and powerful at the end of last season than either Knowshon or Buckhalter this year.

I know, i know, he had that fumble... well, Knowshon has had 4 fumbles this year.

Unfortunately we're just gonna keep on, keepin' on with what McDaniels think will make this offense sort of respectable.

Wasn't it said somewhere that Hillis was having trouble catching on to the playbook? If true, that coupled with the fumble has him probably checked into the McD doghouse for the entire season.

watermock
11-25-2009, 09:33 PM
Wasn't it said somewhere that Hillis was having trouble catching on to the playbook? If true, that coupled with the fumble has him probably checked into the McD doghouse for the entire season.


That was an idiot's speculation.

McD's offense doen't feature a FB.

It does however include an invisible TE.

Ironlung
11-25-2009, 09:54 PM
When put one on one with an LB or safety, he rarely makes one miss or runs through that tackle.

The kid has a great stiff arm & regularly gets by a defender one on one, but hate away, I know you will.

Popps
11-25-2009, 10:00 PM
That was an idiot's speculation.

McD's offense doen't feature a FB.

It does however include an invisible TE.

Many people have speculated and written that... and two offensive masterminds have chosen NOT to make Hillis a starter.

That should give EVEN YOU a hint, Mock.

watermock
11-25-2009, 10:08 PM
Wow.

YOU were the one giving the rock to Hillis in the offseason and calling for a front 7 draft.


Unreal.

watermock
11-25-2009, 10:10 PM
Many people have speculated and written that... and two offensive masterminds have chosen NOT to make Hillis a starter.


Umm, no, YOU DID.

Moron.

Popps
11-25-2009, 10:18 PM
Umm, no, YOU DID.

Moron.

No, Mock... read slowly... OTHER PEOPLE speculated this first, not me. Not by a long-shot. I was a HUGE Hillis guy, and I still think he's got a ton of physical ability. (Sound familiar?)

But, rumors (and some scouting reports) indicate that he's having problems with the playbook, and has problems taking coaching. Add to that a fumble and several special teams gaffes, and there's no question why he's not seeing more time.

Just like Shanahan, McDaniels doesn't see him as a starter. Now, when two coaches of that offensive expertise see the same thing in a guy, perhaps they know more than you do. Crazy thought, I know....

watermock
11-25-2009, 10:30 PM
Peyton Hillis Scouting Report
Written by Rob Tribbett
Apr 10, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Arkansas FB Peyton Hillis Scouting Report
Height: 6-1, Weight: 240, 40 Yard Dash: 4.58
Strengths: Excellent receiver out of the backfield…much better athlete than the typical fullback…keeps his pad level low and keeps moving forward…natural hands…takes good angles in the blocking game…good balance and able to break tackles with strength…extremely productive at Arkansas…

Weaknesses: Really lacks true fullback size…more of a finesse blocker…maybe a bit of a “tweener”…concerns about fumbles…durability questions…doesn’t have size to be full time FB or agility to play tailback…

Overall: Hillis flew under the radar thanks to more heralded teammates Felix Jones and Darren McFadden, but he was a very productive player in his own right. He is a better athlete than given credit for, as he even played some tight end and punt returner at Arkasnas. He projects best to be a West Coast type fullback or a third down back at the NFL level, instead of a bruising fullback type.

.

watermock
11-25-2009, 10:33 PM
Pre-draft
Pre-draft measureables
Height Weight 40-yard dash 10-yard split 20-yard split 20 ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP Wonderlic
6-0* 240 * 4.58 ** 1.59 * 2.68 * 4.24 ** 7.15 * 35" ** 9'09" * 26 * 17 *
* represents NFL Combine **represents Arkansas Pro Day—"X" Denotes "No Data" or "Did Not Participate"


Denver Broncos
.

17. What is Morenos?

watermock
11-25-2009, 10:35 PM
No, YOU thought he was a starter.

Popps
11-25-2009, 10:38 PM
No, YOU thought he was a starter.

Yea, I just said that, Snappy. Try to keep up.

McDman
11-25-2009, 10:39 PM
.

17. What is Morenos?

He got a 13 the first time and a 24 at the combine.