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Bronco Rob
11-17-2009, 04:20 AM
Kiszla: Orton's field hooky not a good move


By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Posted: 11/17/2009 01:00:00 AM MST



Any prediction regarding the Broncos, whose three-game losing streak puts what once seemed to be a secure playoff berth in jeopardy, has become a risky business.

But here's betting that if Kyle Orton is not in the huddle for the upcoming must-win game against San Diego, he is done as the quarterback in Denver.

While you might consider that assessment harsh, the NFL is a brutal business.

Orton cannot lead a reeling team or win a long-term contract from the Broncos by standing on the sideline, as he did during an embarrassing loss to Washington.

While hopeful Orton can be ready to go this weekend against the Chargers, coach Josh McDaniels isn't certain he can count on the veteran quarterback. "Not sure how that's going to go," McDaniels said Monday. "We're going to have to see how (Orton) prepares during the course of the next few days and see if and when Kyle is ready to go."

The Broncos try to be as mysterious as league rules allow regarding injuries, so perhaps Orton's evasiveness when he was asked about his health after a 27-17 loss to the Redskins was understandable, even if his curtness seemed out of line with his usually affable personality.

"I'm not going to sit here and talk about it," Orton told reporters Sunday, when an ankle injury prevented him from playing in the second half.

So let me say it: Either Orton gets on the field and plays big against San Diego, or the prospect for his long-term happiness in Denver is extremely doubtful.

Orton is one tough dude. But, as Brian Griese, Jake Plummer or Jay Cutler can tell him, being quarterback of the Broncos is an unrelentingly tough job.

Orton stood tall in the pocket in the face of the Rush Street criticism heard by every Chicago Bears quarterback since Sid Luckman. Greeted in Denver by booing from disgruntled Broncomaniacs, Orton endured a grotesquely dislocated finger during an exhibition game and came back quicker than many of his peers would have done, starting his first season in Colorado wearing a glove on his throwing hand.

But there remained nagging thoughts in my head as Orton leaned on crutches, clearly in discomfort but looking more nimble than I expected, as he made the rounds down the hallway and through a cramped visitors' locker room after Denver's offense disappeared in his absence and the Broncos gave up 13 points to Washington in the fourth quarter.

Could the veteran quarterback have played on a damaged ankle? Should Orton have given it a go? The line between playing hurt and risking further injury is one of the touchiest, murkiest, most contentious areas of gray in the NFL, where pain is part of every player's life.

Orton hurried himself back from an ankle injury a year ago and was never the same quarterback, performing so poorly late in the 2008 season the Bears were willing to dump him and overpay to acquire Cutler from Denver.

Orton operated with discretion against the Redskins, which might well be the better part of valor but counts for nothing in the NFL standings.

And the distress the Broncos now face despite their 6-3 record is as real as the disgust on the face of Denver safety Brian Dawkins as he fumed on a chair in front of his locker after the defeat.

"You can't sit there in . . . a pity pool of tears and worry about the last game. You have to move forward," Dawkins said.

Moving forward, the Broncos must be able to count on Orton to lead them.

It's no longer a certainty Denver can finish with a 10-6 record. Worse, with losses to Pittsburgh and Baltimore, 10-6 might not qualify the Broncos for the playoffs.

"There are not going to be too many teams that are going to have a straight shot and not have some adversity," Dawkins said. "In those adverse situations, you have to have the fortitude to be able to stand up in them, stand strong in them and stand together in them, so when you come out of those adverse situations by doing what you're supposed to do, you're a stronger team from it. Now this is that adverse situation for us right now. We have to stand up and stand strong."

A case can be made that Orton has been the most valuable player on this team. The statistics strongly suggest he has outplayed Cutler to this point in the season. Appreciation for Orton in Denver might have actually risen in his absence against the Redskins, as backup quarterback Chris Simms demonstrated how difficult operating the Denver offense can be.

Nevertheless . . .

In the Not For Long, almost every player, Orton included, works on a week-to-week basis.

Fair or not, value can only be proven on the field.



http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13803607

tsiguy96
11-17-2009, 05:17 AM
its sad that fans like rasta and colonelbeef get reassured by BS writers like kiszla. why does the denver media refuse to get behind the broncos, ever? its pure sensationalism all day every day.

watermock
11-17-2009, 06:22 AM
Could the veteran quarterback have played on a damaged ankle? Should Orton have given it a go? The line between playing hurt and risking further injury is one of the touchiest, murkiest, most contentious areas of gray in the NFL, where pain is part of every player's life.



That's what I wondered.

barryr
11-17-2009, 06:36 AM
I doubt very much Orton told McDaniels I can't go. My guess McDaniels and the medical staff told him to sit out the rest of the game so not risking making the injury worse and maybe be out longer than just a half of football.

errand
11-17-2009, 06:36 AM
Yeah so Orton should have played and risk being out for the season versus a week, possibly two?, no wonder nobody buys newspapers anymore.....

watermock
11-17-2009, 06:37 AM
its sad that fans like rasta and colonelbeef get reassured by BS writers like kiszla. why does the denver media refuse to get behind the broncos, ever? its pure sensationalism all day every day.

God, because sportwrihters are PAID to generate heat.

ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE ON A MONTH LONG LOSING STRAK.

Be prepared. They went through 5 months of apologies.

We lose the next 2?

They will be talking about the longest losing streak in 40 years.

jmz313
11-17-2009, 06:38 AM
its sad that fans like rasta and colonelbeef get reassured by BS writers like kiszla. why does the denver media refuse to get behind the broncos, ever? its pure sensationalism all day every day.

Because there is rarely a story there that people will talk about.

watermock
11-17-2009, 06:41 AM
Yeah so Orton should have played and risk being out for the season versus a week, possibly two?, no wonder nobody buys newspapers anymore.....

Wow, how astute, given that our coach equates an ACL to a leg amputee to a toe.

dbfan4life
11-17-2009, 07:04 AM
We should have been able to beat the Redskins w/ me at QB. Washington was 2-6 for a good reason....they are terrible. What does that make us, I guess?

gtown
11-17-2009, 07:05 AM
It's writers like this that probably forced Orton to come back to early from injury last season.

"But here's betting that if Kyle Orton is not in the huddle for the upcoming must-win game against San Diego, he is done as the quarterback in Denver."

That's the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. Whatever happened to judging someone on their entire effort except for one isolated situation. Between Kizla and Woody, Denver is blessed with two of the worst writers in the business. How these guys stay employed is beyond me.

Beantown Bronco
11-17-2009, 07:14 AM
We should have been able to beat the Redskins w/ me at QB. Washington was 2-6 for a good reason....they are terrible. What does that make us, I guess?

A very good team with a terrible backup QB.

oubronco
11-17-2009, 07:38 AM
But he's one tough sunofabeeetch

jmz313
11-17-2009, 07:39 AM
more like a slighty above average team with a terrible backup. a very good team wins that game with simms, relying on run game and D. Worse teams have pulled it off.

Rulon Velvet Jones
11-17-2009, 07:41 AM
Brandon Marshall probably told him not to go back out, especially if he'd been seen by the medical staff already.

sisterhellfyre
11-17-2009, 08:03 AM
We should have been able to beat the Redskins w/ me at QB. Washington was 2-6 for a good reason....they are terrible. What does that make us, I guess?

A team that had a bad day.

Beantown Bronco
11-17-2009, 08:03 AM
more like a slighty above average team with a terrible backup. a very good team wins that game with simms, relying on run game and D. Worse teams have pulled it off.

No matter how good the rest of the team is, you simply can't win every time your bullpen pitcher gives up a grand slam in the 7th or 8th inning.

The defense only gave up 17 pts. The rest of the offense was running the ball well and catching anything that was within reach. Problem was, Simms was simply not throwing anything that was even remotely catchable, besides one or two passes to guys that were blanketed and that didn't go past the LOS.

One guy CAN bring down the whole team if it is your QB. This isn't a novel concept.

colonelbeef
11-17-2009, 08:59 AM
its sad that fans like rasta and colonelbeef get reassured by BS writers like kiszla. why does the denver media refuse to get behind the broncos, ever? its pure sensationalism all day every day.

Huh?

This article is nonsense, it's almost as though he is threatening Orton to play without knowing how severe the injury is.

Orton will play if he is able, he has proven himself to be a tough player, and does not have to prove anything to some douche from the Denver post.

Mark Kizla is the definition of a small town journalist practicing sensationalism simply to sell newspapers. Worst thing to happen to Denver sports writing was the folding up of the only other competition in town

Mountain Bronco
11-17-2009, 09:21 AM
Horrible article. Orton might not be with the Broncos any more because he hurt his ankle. Nothing more.... WTF???

Beantown Bronco
11-17-2009, 09:30 AM
Horrible article. Orton might not be with the Broncos any more because he hurt his ankle. Nothing more.... WTF???

Seriously, barring some last minute heroics with the CBA negotiations, he'll be a restricted FA at the end of the season and could be signed for peanuts. There's literally no reason to let him go, short of death or at least an amputation of some kind.

watermock
11-17-2009, 09:36 AM
I say we amputate and bring him back against SD.

Give him one of him one of those spring jobs.

He'll break off 3k in our system!

outdoor_miner
11-17-2009, 09:44 AM
Horrible article. Orton might not be with the Broncos any more because he hurt his ankle. Nothing more.... WTF???

Especially after the guy took the field with a friggin injury that NOBODY thought he would be able to play with at the beginning of the year. I can't believe this article was written. These Denver Post writers continue to achieve new levels of dumb.

Gort
11-17-2009, 10:14 AM
It's writers like this that probably forced Orton to come back to early from injury last season.

"But here's betting that if Kyle Orton is not in the huddle for the upcoming must-win game against San Diego, he is done as the quarterback in Denver."

That's the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. Whatever happened to judging someone on their entire effort except for one isolated situation. Between Kizla and Woody, Denver is blessed with two of the worst writers in the business. How these guys stay employed is beyond me.

every city has a-hole writers like these guys. usually has beens and never weres who get all warm and tingly when they think about the mischief they can cause for the hometown team with a couple of well-crafted sentences.

Gort
11-17-2009, 10:15 AM
A team that had a bad day.

the Broncos have had a bad month. longer if you count the close calls against a couple of teams before the bye.

Popps
11-17-2009, 10:16 AM
Yea, I don't get the point of the article.

Sure, Orton is better off if he plays. Thanks.

Someone gets paid to come up with that take?

HEAV
11-17-2009, 12:04 PM
Why O why couldn't the Post have folded instead of The Rocky Mountain News?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-17-2009, 12:14 PM
Why O why couldn't the Post have folded instead of The Rocky Mountain News?

It literally would not have mattered. Kiz and Woody would both be at the News if that had happened.

meangene
11-17-2009, 12:14 PM
Now, this is the type of moronic Kiszla article I am used to! How does Orton's spraining his ankle mean he is done in Denver and not going to get a long-term deal? This is not a career-threatening or even season-ending injury. It came half way through his best game of the year and, if anything, the inept performance by Simms points out how well Orton has been doing in running a very complicated offense on a team in transition. What Orton has shown me is that, while he is not one to carry a team on his shoulders, he is very capable of being a consistent winner in this league when complimented by a solid surrounding cast. Shore up the interior offensive line and give this team a full year in this offense and we will have a very effective, balanced offense. And, with Orton, this offense will not make the kinds of mistakes that lose games. How Kiszla adds up 1+1 and gets 5 is beyond me!

peacepipe
11-17-2009, 12:23 PM
There's no reason to think Orton was ever going to get a long term deal. Granted he has played well,he's efficient but by no means is he our future at QB. He probably won't be with the team beyond this season. Which if he were to be out multiple games then it would make sense that he would lose his starting job cuz by that point we would likely be out of the playoff hunt. If you are not going to make the playoffs than you better get your future starter some playing time ala Vince young in tenn.

meangene
11-17-2009, 12:28 PM
There's no reason to think Orton was ever going to get a long term deal. Granted he has played well,he's efficient but by no means is he our future at QB. He probably won't be with the team beyond this season. Which if he were to be out multiple games then it would make sense that he would lose his starting job cuz by that point we would likely be out of the playoff hunt. If you are not going to make the playoffs than you better get your future starter some playing time ala Vince young in tenn.

I would be stunned if he is not only on the team next year, but the starter for at least a couple seasons. I don't see us going out to get a veteran QB so you are looking at grooming a young backup. Orton is playing well enough to give any eventual replacement time to develop. If he misses a game or two I don't see McD going to our rookie backup to finish out the season and start playing for the future.

tsiguy96
11-17-2009, 12:31 PM
I would be stunned if he is not only on the team next year, but the starter for at least a couple seasons. I don't see us going out to get a veteran QB so you are looking at grooming a young backup. Orton is playing well enough to give any eventual replacement time to develop. If he misses a game or two I don't see McD going to our rookie backup to finish out the season and start playing for the future.

hell definitely get re-signed, but i dont think we should expect him to be the QB for the next 5-6 years. if he is, great that means hes playing at a level we can win a championship with, but if not it means we are grooming someone else.

peacepipe
11-17-2009, 12:34 PM
I would be stunned if he is not only on the team next year, but the starter for at least a couple seasons. I don't see us going out to get a veteran QB so you are looking at grooming a young backup. Orton is playing well enough to give any eventual replacement time to develop. If he misses a game or two I don't see McD going to our rookie backup to finish out the season and start playing for the future.

Bowlen is not going to spend the money that orton would want just to have him hold the reigns while his replacement is being groomed.

outdoor_miner
11-17-2009, 12:34 PM
I would be stunned if he is not only on the team next year, but the starter for at least a couple seasons. I don't see us going out to get a veteran QB so you are looking at grooming a young backup. Orton is playing well enough to give any eventual replacement time to develop. If he misses a game or two I don't see McD going to our rookie backup to finish out the season and start playing for the future.

Exactly. Orton will almost certainly be our starting quarterback next year. Who is going to come in and immediately replace him? What Free Agent will be available that's better? And there's no way McD starts a rookie, even if he drafts a QB high (which is extremely unlikely).

DBroncos4life
11-17-2009, 12:34 PM
If we don't start putting up more then 18.8 points a game there is no reason not to upgrade at QB. You can make a case that we are just about as talented at every position as the Pats and they are putting up 200 more yards and 10 more points per game then us. Even Cassel was leading them to 25 points a game.

People will point out that we didn't score much vs top D's, well last I check most of those teams are called playoff teams.

meangene
11-17-2009, 12:36 PM
hell definitely get re-signed, but i dont think we should expect him to be the QB for the next 5-6 years. if he is, great that means hes playing at a level we can win a championship with, but if not it means we are grooming someone else.

I think that is a pretty accurate assessment.

meangene
11-17-2009, 12:40 PM
If we don't start putting up more then 18.8 points a game there is no reason not to upgrade at QB. You can make a case that we are just about as talented at every position as the Pats and they are putting up 200 more yards and 10 more points per game then us. Even Cassel was leading them to 25 points a game.

People will point out that we didn't score much vs top D's, well last I check most of those teams are called playoff teams.

We are in year one in this system for every single player. Brady started out as much more of a game manager and system QB before he became a star. Cassell had several years learning the system before he saw the field. Give it just a little time...

chex
11-17-2009, 12:42 PM
If we don't start putting up more then 18.8 points a game there is no reason not to upgrade at QB. You can make a case that we are just about as talented at every position as the Pats and they are putting up 200 more yards and 10 more points per game then us. Even Cassel was leading them to 25 points a game.

People will point out that we didn't score much vs top D's, well last I check most of those teams are called playoff teams.

Fine.

Who will be available that will be an upgrade?

DBroncos4life
11-17-2009, 12:49 PM
We are in year one in this system for every single player. Brady started out as much more of a game manager and system QB before he became a star. Cassell had several years learning the system before he saw the field. Give it just a little time...

The Pats still averaged 24 points when McD first moved up to OC and started putting his touches on the system. As the season moves on we are seeing the team start to struggle more on O, not taking steps forward as they should be improving and learning the system.
I believe we have no choice but to bring Orton back but that doesn't mean we shouldn't spend a early pick on another QB even more so with the amount of talented ones that maybe available for us in the first two round.

Mr.Meanie
11-17-2009, 12:49 PM
It's not like Orton has someone behind him pushing to take his job. If anything, him being out solidified his starting spot in the in the minds of coaches and even the Orton haters. This article is 100% backwards.

DBroncos4life
11-17-2009, 12:57 PM
Fine.

Who will be available that will be an upgrade?

Absolutely no one during FA period. Orton should be resigned he has played well enough to earn that. Maybe bring Chad Pennington spend a little more on Jason Campbell to be a back up. Pennington most certainly won't get many looks from teams. Tom Brandstater will be back as well. We need to get one of the talented QBs early in the draft and go into camp with 4 QBs. If Brandstater doesn't play well cut him and hope he can stick on the PS
Orton
Pennington/Campbell
Brandstater
Rookie

meangene
11-17-2009, 12:59 PM
The Pats still averaged 24 points when McD first moved up to OC and started putting his touches on the system. As the season moves on we are seeing the team start to struggle more on O, not taking steps forward as they should be improving and learning the system.
I believe we have no choice but to bring Orton back but that doesn't mean we shouldn't spend a early pick on another QB even more so with the amount of talented ones that maybe available for us in the first two round.

When McD moved up to OC, the players and system had been in place for a number of years. This season, teams adjusted to what we were doing offensively and we played two really good defenses back to back. It appeared last week that we had made adjustments and were on our way to having a very good offensive game against another good defense until Orton got hurt. We have a real weakness in the interior offensive line at C and LG and teams were taking advantage of that to crowd the line of scrimmage and jump the short routes that had been successful. Hochstein at least stemmed the tide enough to allow us time to throw downfield which, in turn, helped open up the running game. We are halfway thru season one of this system. Much as I like a guy like Clausen or Bradford, I think we need to continue to strengthen our OL and DL before spending an early pick on a QB. Note the Pats almost never did that and preferred to develop later round guys who fit their system (Bradstrater?).

baja
11-17-2009, 01:01 PM
I am beginning to wear a hole in my touch pad where I scroll down.

Mr.Meanie
11-17-2009, 01:04 PM
I am beginning to wear a hole in my touch pad where I scroll down.

:twitch:

Please tell me that's not a euphemism...

baja
11-17-2009, 01:05 PM
:twitch:

Please tell me that's not a euphamism...

LOL good one ;D

At least Buff loves me...

oubronco
11-17-2009, 01:09 PM
If we don't start putting up more then 18.8 points a game there is no reason not to upgrade at QB. You can make a case that we are just about as talented at every position as the Pats and they are putting up 200 more yards and 10 more points per game then us. Even Cassel was leading them to 25 points a game.

People will point out that we didn't score much vs top D's, well last I check most of those teams are called playoff teams.

of course they have been playing in that system for a helluva lot longer than a preseason and 9 regular season games too

oubronco
11-17-2009, 01:12 PM
Absolutely no one during FA period. Orton should be resigned he has played well enough to earn that. Maybe bring Chad Pennington spend a little more on Jason Campbell to be a back up. Pennington most certainly won't get many looks from teams. Tom Brandstater will be back as well. We need to get one of the talented QBs early in the draft and go into camp with 4 QBs. If Brandstater doesn't play well cut him and hope he can stick on the PS
Orton
Pennington/Campbell
Brandstater
Rookie

Hell NO to Pennington or Cambell

DBroncos4life
11-17-2009, 01:17 PM
When McD moved up to OC, the players and system had been in place for a number of years. This season, teams adjusted to what we were doing offensively and we played two really good defenses back to back. It appeared last week that we had made adjustments and were on our way to having a very good offensive game against another good defense until Orton got hurt. We have a real weakness in the interior offensive line at C and LG and teams were taking advantage of that to crowd the line of scrimmage and jump the short routes that had been successful. Hochstein at least stemmed the tide enough to allow us time to throw downfield which, in turn, helped open up the running game. We are halfway thru season one of this system. Much as I like a guy like Clausen or Bradford, I think we need to continue to strengthen our OL and DL before spending an early pick on a QB. Note the Pats almost never did that and preferred to develop later round guys who fit their system (Bradstrater?).

I know this is a shocker but while football is complicated in its own right its not like these guys haven't been practicing McD's system for a few months now. 18 points per game isn't going to get it done it just won't. 4 of our 6 wins we scored more then 18 points. Of our 3 losses we have scored less then 18 points. It appeared that McD did open up a new wrinkle in the play book for Orton and it was working till he got injured, we will see what the next few weeks will bring.
As for the Pats not drafting a QB till late, big deal. They landed a very good player but lets not act like that is a common thing.
Indy QB 1st round
Pitt QB 1st round
Cincy QB 1st round
SD QB 1st round
NO QB 2nd round

Only Cowboys, Pats, and Cards are winning without a QB drafted in the first 6 rounds.

DBroncos4life
11-17-2009, 01:18 PM
Hell NO to Pennington or Cambell

So you are loving the idea of Simms backing up Orton? Both players I mentioned are a way better option to back up Orton then Simms.

chex
11-17-2009, 01:24 PM
I know this is a shocker but while football is complicated in its own right its not like these guys haven't been practicing McD's system for a few months now. 18 points per game isn't going to get it done it just won't. 4 of our 6 wins we scored more then 18 points. Of our 3 losses we have scored less then 18 points. It appeared that McD did open up a new wrinkle in the play book for Orton and it was working till he got injured, we will see what the next few weeks will bring.
As for the Pats not drafting a QB till late, big deal. They landed a very good player but lets not act like that is a common thing.
Indy QB 1st round
Pitt QB 1st round
Cincy QB 1st round
SD QB 1st round
NO QB 2nd round

Only Cowboys, Pats, and Cards are winning without a QB drafted in the first 6 rounds.

Manning - 1st overall

Roethlisberger - 11th overall

Palmer - 1st overall

Rivers - 4th overall

Except for Brees, all those guys went very high, higher than where we'll be picking.

Also with that, there are plenty, and I mean plenty, of 1st round QB busts to list out as well. The only thing a 1st round QB guarantees is your cap is screwed for a number of years.

peacepipe
11-17-2009, 01:25 PM
of course they have been playing in that system for a helluva lot longer than a preseason and 9 regular season games tooMatt cassel was so far back on the depth chart that he was playing TE/WR & ST in college. He is the only QB to ever get drafted having never started a game in college, yet he's putting up multiple 400 yd games his 1st yr starting since HS.You can take any 8 game span last yr & compare it to orton & know he's not the answer. There's no real excuse why orton shouldn't be doing alot better,he came in this system with alot more experience,he should be getting better as the season goes on not worse.

DBroncos4life
11-17-2009, 01:33 PM
Manning - 1st overall

Roethlisberger - 11th overall

Palmer - 1st overall

Rivers - 4th overall

Except for Brees, all those guys went very high, higher than where we'll be picking.

Also with that, there are plenty, and I mean plenty, of 1st round QB busts to list out as well. The only thing a 1st round QB guarantees is your cap is screwed for a number of years.
LOL why do teams even bother with scouts or even draft QBs then. Just do everything the Pats way. There are more then a handful first round QBs starting in the NFL. Guys like Flacco, McNabb, Eli Manning, Rodgers, Ryan, and Cutler. More often then not more then half the starting QBs in the playoffs are former 1st round picks.

oubronco
11-17-2009, 01:39 PM
Matt cassel was so far back on the depth chart that he was playing TE/WR & ST in college. He is the only QB to ever get drafted having never started a game in college, yet he's putting up multiple 400 yd games his 1st yr starting since HS.You can take any 8 game span last yr & compare it to orton & know he's not the answer. There's no real excuse why orton shouldn't be doing alot better,he came in this system with alot more experience,he should be getting better as the season goes on not worse.

I agree he should be getting better but as for a whole this team is in transition and has only been in the system for a short period of time and because of the winning start to the season some peoples expectations have gone wild

Broncos4tw
11-17-2009, 01:40 PM
This was one weird article. I am not even an Orton fan really, but this was just stupidity. Since when does a non-career or even a non-season threatening injury mean you are done with a team? I could see if he was a complete hack, but he's not. He just isn't Mr. Franchise QB. He is still serviceable, and MUCH better than Simms, who looked just horrid. Without a better player to fill in, why in the hell would he be done?

chex
11-17-2009, 01:45 PM
LOL why do teams even bother with scouts or even draft QBs then. Just do everything the Pats way. There are more then a handful first round QBs starting in the NFL. Guys like Flacco, McNabb, Eli Manning, Rodgers, Ryan, and Cutler. More often then not more then half the starting QBs in the playoffs are former 1st round picks.

Never said there wasn't, but the examples you gave are true franchise QB's, where they generally go top 10. I doubt we finish with a record that would put us in a position to seriously discuss drafting a QB like that.

And as I tried to explain, just throwing a 1st round pick at a QB is not an elixir. Does not in any way guarantee success.

DBroncos4life
11-17-2009, 01:49 PM
Never said there wasn't, but the examples you gave are true franchise QB's, where they generally go top 10. I doubt we finish with a record that would put us in a position to seriously discuss drafting a QB like that.

And as I tried to explain, just throwing a 1st round pick at a QB is not an elixir. Does not in any way guarantee success.

It doesn't matter this year we traded our pick. The Bears pick should put us in a position to draft a QB though.

Beantown Bronco
11-17-2009, 01:52 PM
As the season moves on we are seeing the team start to struggle more on O, not taking steps forward as they should be improving and learning the system.

It's all about the matchups.

Week one: they basically got shut down by a very good defense
Weeks two-six: scored points against scrub defenses by and large
Weeks 8 and 9: struggled against very good defenses
Week nine: on pace for 34 pts before starter goes down with injury

So, I wouldn't necessarily say that they are struggling in a vacuum. It clearly, to me at least, reflects more on their week to week opponents than their own ability to learn and improve.

chex
11-17-2009, 01:52 PM
It doesn't matter this year we traded our pick. The Bears pick should put us in a position to draft a QB though.

Correct, I should have clarified that.

I don't follow college much these days, and don't pretend to be a draft guru, but what QB's are slotted to be mid 1st rounders anyway?

DBroncos4life
11-17-2009, 03:53 PM
Correct, I should have clarified that.

I don't follow college much these days, and don't pretend to be a draft guru, but what QB's are slotted to be mid 1st rounders anyway?

I think it depends on Bradford. If he comes out period and if he is healthy enough to do the drills at the combine should he come out. Right now you are looking at Bradford, Clausen, Jake Locker, Tebow, and Mccoy all could possibly get first round grades. Pike is another that could sneak in there. I'm not sure if Snead is comes out or not but his name was rumored to be a first rounder as well. Its clear that more then a few of those guys will slip and fall, some might not come out but there is talented players at the QB position in the next few years coming out.

DBroncos4life
11-17-2009, 03:59 PM
It's all about the matchups.

Week one: they basically got shut down by a very good defense
Weeks two-six: scored points against scrub defenses by and large
Weeks 8 and 9: struggled against very good defenses
Week nine: on pace for 34 pts before starter goes down with injury

So, I wouldn't necessarily say that they are struggling in a vacuum. It clearly, to me at least, reflects more on their week to week opponents than their own ability to learn and improve.

The problem is BB, 3 out of those 4 teams are playoff bound, well maybe not the Ravens cause of the division but still we can't afford not to struggle against playoff teams and expect to move forward with Orton. I have no problem with him being the short term answer but if the Bears tank like they have been and we end up with a top 12 pick we have to address the QB position because lord knows when we will get the chance to do that again if things progress like they have been. Most of those teams that ended up with an early pick to land their franchise QB sucked for years, we never do so we have to take our shot and get our guy when we have the chance.

mhgaffney
11-17-2009, 06:30 PM
Strange. No mention of the "B" word.

kappys
11-17-2009, 07:14 PM
Why O why couldn't the Post have folded instead of The Rocky Mountain News?

It was the only way they could combine the horrible writing of the Post with the ackward and confusing layout of the Rocky Mountain News?

azbroncfan
11-17-2009, 09:44 PM
its sad that fans like rasta and colonelbeef get reassured by BS writers like kiszla. why does the denver media refuse to get behind the broncos, ever? its pure sensationalism all day every day.

Their post per day average is back up after losing the last three though.

Hulamau
11-17-2009, 11:23 PM
It's writers like this that probably forced Orton to come back to early from injury last season.

"But here's betting that if Kyle Orton is not in the huddle for the upcoming must-win game against San Diego, he is done as the quarterback in Denver."

That's the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. Whatever happened to judging someone on their entire effort except for one isolated situation. Between Kizla and Woody, Denver is blessed with two of the worst writers in the business. How these guys stay employed is beyond me.

I wrote Kizla and told him what a stupid article this was. ORton Dogging it ....right. The guy just played a solid half of football had the team ahead on the road inspite of that ****up on Special teams giving the skins an easy 7. A game we would have won going away and he knew it had he been able to play.

The Orton who came back and played from a third degree high ankle sprain last year after missing only one game, limping through the rest of the season because the Bears had no one else and even an injured Orton gave them the best chance to win ... yeah sure kizla he's a bum.

The Orton who played the first 4 games of the season with stitches and a plastic splint on the index finger of his throwing hand ... surely he must be doggin' it?!?!

Kizmyassla is a hack.