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View Full Version : W T F Happened to our defense today?


DenverBound
11-15-2009, 06:31 PM
We made the Redskins look like contenders today.

We gave them 174 yards on the ground. 214, through the air, and 388 total. That and we couldn't get off the field on third downs giving them 8/16. WTF is really going on here.

I know McBean was a big part of our line but I didn't really think we would collapse that badly, especially against the ****ing Redskins.

A lot of people are blaming Simms (rightfully so) for the loss, but if our defense actually came to play today and stopped them in the first half when they should have, all Simms would to have done was come in and hand the ball off. Our defense played a HUGE role in the loss we took today.

Discuss.

(P.S. **** the haters. I have 100 posts now.)

bronco militia
11-15-2009, 06:33 PM
ask the offense...they only had the ball for 7 minutes in the 2nd half

Popps
11-15-2009, 06:33 PM
We just don't have the horses to leave our D out there the entire game. We need sustained drives to be able to allow our guys to tee-off and play an attacking style. We can't run 3 and outs on offense and expect our defense to hang. We're simply not an elite defense, at this point.

We still need to upgrade, and we need balance on offense to allow these guys to do their drives.

We did this to our D last year, and look what it got us.

When we're playing well... we're sustaining drives on offense and eating up the clock. That's our formula.

Blart
11-15-2009, 06:33 PM
Look at time of possession in the 2nd half for all 3 losses.

Popps
11-15-2009, 06:34 PM
Then, there's the DJ williams issue.


I'm going to let people settle down before I bring that up in detail.


But, if you have Tivo and you've recorded the last three games. Just watch. Just watch and ask yourself what he's doing on there. In particular, look at big runs... and big 3rd down conversions allowed, and ask yourself what on earth he's doing.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-15-2009, 06:35 PM
W T F Happened to our defense today?

They couldn't get off the field (for the third week in a row.)

ColoradoDarin
11-15-2009, 06:40 PM
Then, there's the DJ williams issue.


I'm going to let people settle down before I bring that up in detail.


But, if you have Tivo and you've recorded the last three games. Just watch. Just watch and ask yourself what he's doing on there. In particular, look at big runs... and big 3rd down conversions allowed, and ask yourself what on earth he's doing.

but but but, he leads the team in tackles (from behind after allowing 8-15 yards....)

The Joker
11-15-2009, 06:40 PM
They got worn down badly second half.

They gave up a TD on the opening drive, aside from that they stopped the Skins from scoring in the first half. Second TD is all on the Special Teams.

Kept them scoreless in the 3rd quarter before eventually giving up a FG early in the 4th. Simms then gifted the Skins great field position with his pick. By that point the D was gassed and the Skins made the game winning drive.

The defense wasn't great today, but they weren't horrible either. They'd basically given up 10 points until late in the 4th.

Rohirrim
11-15-2009, 06:42 PM
We need some more players. That's all there is to it.

elsid13
11-15-2009, 06:59 PM
The problem, the defense line isn't keeping the line backers clean and teams are forcing Dawkins into coverage responsibilities.

Rohirrim
11-15-2009, 07:01 PM
http://blog.al.com/rapsheet/2008/07/large_Terrence%20Cody%20swim.jpg

SoCalBronco
11-15-2009, 07:04 PM
Then, there's the DJ williams issue.


I'm going to let people settle down before I bring that up in detail.


But, if you have Tivo and you've recorded the last three games. Just watch. Just watch and ask yourself what he's doing on there. In particular, look at big runs... and big 3rd down conversions allowed, and ask yourself what on earth he's doing.

DJ was alright, today. He had 10 tackles. He did miss some tackles in the run game today to be sure, especially after he had that neck injury, but he wasn't bad or anything. He has had two pretty ordinary games in a row....but overall he's having a very, very good season.

LongDongJohnson
11-15-2009, 07:06 PM
broncos defense needs to go back to fundementals. tackle and stay in your gaps.

DenverBound
11-15-2009, 07:09 PM
DJ was alright, today. He had 10 tackles. He did miss some tackles in the run game today to be sure, especially after he had that neck injury, but he wasn't bad or anything. He has had two pretty ordinary games in a row....but overall he's having a very, very good season.

I agree with this. Our ENTIRE defense got owned by the run today. I mean everyone. Hell I saw Dawkins missing tackles.

DenverBound
11-15-2009, 07:12 PM
broncos defense needs to go back to fundementals. tackle and stay in your gaps.

Yeah it really seems like the whole "Do Your Job" thing has gone out the window the past three games. I don't think anyone has been doing their jobs. My only hope is that the team doesn't stop believing in the system and the staff. Once you lose the locker room your pretty much done. I mean look at the Redskins... Oh... Wait... Damn :notthissh

Kaylore
11-15-2009, 07:18 PM
They were on the field too long. Orton's quick TD's didn't let the defense rest and then Chris Simms' epic fail hung them out to dry.

DeusExManning
11-15-2009, 07:31 PM
We missed Mcbean

Popps
11-15-2009, 09:42 PM
DJ was alright, today. He had 10 tackles. He did miss some tackles in the run game today to be sure, especially after he had that neck injury, but he wasn't bad or anything. He has had two pretty ordinary games in a row....but overall he's having a very, very good season.

You watch any hockey, SoCal? I seem to recall that you do.


You know what DJ is? He's a goalie that makes 3 phenomenal saves in a row, and then lets up 2 that any average goalie should have rejected.

He's a physically gifted guy who's great if he's 1 on 1 with a ball-carrier in the open field. But, he's ROUTINELY out of position and ROUTINELY the CAUSE of long runs and converted third downs.

At some point, I'll post time-codes for some plays... if I have time. He routinely has major mental lapses... and makes horrible decisions.

Then, he'll look great making a tackle and jump around.

So, net-net .... you have a guy that makes a lot of plays... and misses a lot.

Conversely, take Andre Davis. Not as gifted, yet 2x smarter, and rarely is caught out of position.

I'd love to see stats of where our longest running plays given up were run. I'd almost guarantee they're on DJ's side.

BroncoMan4ever
11-15-2009, 10:24 PM
the defense was on the field basically the entire 2nd half. they had allowed 7 points going to halftime, but when Orton couldn't take the field and the offense sputtered, the defense got tired

Archer81
11-15-2009, 10:36 PM
In the last two games, the Broncos defense has been on the field for 45 of 60 minutes combined in the 2nd half. When the Broncos offense had the ball, they did nothing with it. You do that to any defense, no **** they are going to give up yards and points.

:Broncos:

rovolution
11-15-2009, 10:41 PM
They were on the field too long. Orton's quick TD's didn't let the defense rest and then Chris Simms' epic fail hung them out to dry.

this

question answered. close the thread

azbroncfan
11-15-2009, 11:08 PM
Dj is Socal's Florida Bronco's Jarvis Moss or Watermock's Cutler.

Popps
11-16-2009, 12:20 AM
Dj is Socal's Florida Bronco's Jarvis Moss or Watermock's Cutler.

I know... but he's got enough football smarts to see the problems if he'd look with an unbiased eye.

Again, this isn't about "hating" DJ. I don't "hate" Broncos. I just want guys that can play smart, and DJ routinely has lapses that cost this team.

He's got a lot of upside, but he's probably a guy who would be better as a situational player, or a weakside starter in a 4-3. (On a great defense with other great players in place.)

He's not awful, but when he lapses... it's a big problem, and he just seems to give up a handful of back-breaking plays in every game.

BroncoMan4ever
11-16-2009, 12:25 AM
I know... but he's got enough football smarts to see the problems if he'd look with an unbiased eye.

Again, this isn't about "hating" DJ. I don't "hate" Broncos. I just want guys that can play smart, and DJ routinely has lapses that cost this team.

He's got a lot of upside, but he's probably a guy who would be better as a situational player, or a weakside starter in a 4-3. (On a great defense with other great players in place.)

He's not awful, but when he lapses... it's a big problem, and he just seems to give up a handful of back-breaking plays in every game.

i agree, he has the athletic talent of top LBs in the league, but mentally he isn't elite.

it is a Cutler-Orton comparison.

look at Davis in the middle with DJ. nowhere near the athletic ability but he is smart and is always in position to make the play. DJ has a ton of potential and ability, but mentally has lapses in judgment where he looks like ****.

Hulamau
11-16-2009, 01:17 AM
Then, there's the DJ williams issue.


I'm going to let people settle down before I bring that up in detail.


But, if you have Tivo and you've recorded the last three games. Just watch. Just watch and ask yourself what he's doing on there. In particular, look at big runs... and big 3rd down conversions allowed, and ask yourself what on earth he's doing.

DJ tackled Champ today giving up a first down

Hulamau
11-16-2009, 01:43 AM
The basic problem is two fold .. setting aside for a moment the larger issues of us just not YET having enough horses in our depth across the board to sustain key injures and still win tough games in Late November and December

When our offense cant convert third downs and at least sustain drives in the second half whether it be due the O-line breakdowns by Hamilton, Casey being too light to handle bull rushes with a faltering Hamilton right next to him AND/OR missing Harris at right tackle .... OR having our one indispensable player going out at the end of the first half as did Orton yesterday ....

.... THEN the opposing teams new strategy the last three weeks of lining up with three WR almost the entire second half, and then running out of that formation, is very effective.

The reason it is effective is because our entire front seven Nickel package is stuck on the field will no real substitutions the entire second half after playing hard ... and winning .... the first half.

The big guys get gassed first and then the dominoes in the run defense start to fall. Its not like our defense suddenly gets collective amnesia and forgets how to gap control and how to tackle.

But we are not deep enough and talented enough, player by player, to weather such a one-sided scenario in the second half of games after playing hard all first half. And I know of few teams that are?? At least when an offense is basically stuck in neutral for the entire second half of a tight game at halftime.

If Orton tries to throw that ball away instead of running and getting injured, then we have some sustained second half drives with at least a few field goals and/or a couple more TDs in the second half.

And as importantly, the defense gets just enough rest to make the opposing offense pay for playing more one dimensional themselves and running out of a three wide set.

This was a 'get well' game for us and would have broken that trend started by the Ravens and Steelers .. but then Kyle went down and we discovered Chris Simms should have retired two years ago! :-\

This isn't rocket science folks. But we just don't have the quality depth along both lines (and elsewhere) to hold up with key injuries, and when the lines start to fail the head will usually follow.

A little second half balance between offense and defense will cure things up in a hurry. And in the meantime devising a better rotation on the d-line when in stuck in the nickle for long periods like that would help.

Alas, for that we need a healthy Orton and Harris back in the mix on the O line as I think Hochstein is gonna be alright at LG. McBean too on the D line. That's our best hope of putting this puzzle back together this year.

In the offseason, Josh will be busy building up this team from the inside out, like he started this year, so we have more resilience and talented depth to play with injuries and still compete for a championship next year and beyond.

DenverBound
11-16-2009, 04:43 AM
The basic problem is two fold .. setting aside for a moment the larger issues of us just not YET having enough horses in our depth across the board to sustain key injures and still win tough games in Late November and December

When our offense cant convert third downs and at least sustain drives in the second half whether it be due the O-line breakdowns by Hamilton, Casey being too light to handle bull rushes with a faltering Hamilton right next to him AND/OR missing Harris at right tackle .... OR having our one indispensable player going out at the end of the first half as did Orton yesterday ....

.... THEN the opposing teams new strategy the last three weeks of lining up with three WR almost the entire second half, and then running out of that formation, is very effective.

The reason it is effective is because our entire front seven Nickel package is stuck on the field will no real substitutions the entire second half after playing hard ... and winning .... the first half.

The big guys get gassed first and then the dominoes in the run defense start to fall. Its not like our defense suddenly gets collective amnesia and forgets how to gap control and how to tackle.

But we are not deep enough and talented enough, player by player, to weather such a one-sided scenario in the second half of games after playing hard all first half. And I know of few teams that are?? At least when an offense is basically stuck in neutral for the entire second half of a tight game at halftime.

If Orton tries to throw that ball away instead of running and getting injured, then we have some sustained second half drives with at least a few field goals and/or a couple more TDs in the second half.

And as importantly, the defense gets just enough rest to make the opposing offense pay for playing more one dimensional themselves and running out of a three wide set.

This was a 'get well' game for us and would have broken that trend started by the Ravens and Steelers .. but then Kyle went down and we discovered Chris Simms should have retired two years ago! :-\

This isn't rocket science folks. But we just don't have the quality depth along both lines (and elsewhere) to hold up with key injuries, and when the lines start to fail the head will usually follow.

A little second half balance between offense and defense will cure things up in a hurry. And in the meantime devising a better rotation on the d-line when in stuck in the nickle for long periods like that would help.

Alas, for that we need a healthy Orton and Harris back in the mix on the O line as I think Hochstein is gonna be alright at LG. McBean too on the D line. That's our best hope of putting this puzzle back together this year.

In the offseason, Josh will be busy building up this team from the inside out, like he started this year, so we have more resilience and talented depth to play with injuries and still compete for a championship next year and beyond.

Excellent post. +Rep

Rohirrim
11-16-2009, 05:43 AM
Need players.

gtown
11-16-2009, 06:46 AM
Our nickel package was out there for most of the second half. I was surprised at how many plays Fields was on the sideline. We got gashed at the POA when they would run or play action out of these 3 WR sets.

TonyR
11-16-2009, 06:59 AM
Many are busy excusing the D's performance by blaming the O for not keeping the D off the field long enough. And this is a valid argument. But the D doesn't completely escape responsibility. The D needs to force 3 and outs and get itself off the field, particularly against a mediocre-at-best O with numerous injuries. The D played okay but really should have dominated this game and didn't.

Beantown Bronco
11-16-2009, 07:07 AM
Many are busy excusing the D's performance by blaming the O for not keeping the D off the field long enough. And this is a valid argument. But the D doesn't completely escape responsibility. The D needs to force 3 and outs and get itself off the field, particularly against a mediocre-at-best O with numerous injuries. The D played okay but really should have dominated this game and didn't.

They did force 4 punts, made a 4th down stop, and held the Skins scoreless for the entire 3rd quarter. In reality, they only had two bad drives out of 10 or 11 all day IMO.

missingnumber7
11-16-2009, 07:20 AM
They did force 4 punts, made a 4th down stop, and held the Skins scoreless for the entire 3rd quarter. In reality, they only had two bad drives out of 10 or 11 all day IMO.

And got abused by 2 running backs...I am starting to think that the bye week was a bad thing because since then Nolan's D has gotten figured out and McDaniels hasn't done anything to fix the lethargic O.

TonyR
11-16-2009, 07:25 AM
And got abused by 2 running backs...

Yep, I don't understand the denial. The defense played well overall, probably good enough to win with a better O performance, but not well enough. No matter how you slice it they gave up 174 yards rushing to an offense missing multiple key starters. To win consistently the defense will have to play better regardless of which unit is to blame. And if we can't dominate a bad team like the Redskins wait until you see the Chargers and Eagles offenses, among others we have to face.

Beantown Bronco
11-16-2009, 08:17 AM
Let's be clear. I'm not giving the D an "A". Just pointing out that, despite the yards given up, they were getting off the field more often than not. It was a classic bend but don't break for all but 2 drives....the 2nd of which was after a series of 3 and outs and a turnover.

Beantown Bronco
11-16-2009, 08:21 AM
Yep, I don't understand the denial. The defense played well overall, probably good enough to win with a better O performance, but not well enough.

Fact: the offense and special teams put them in a position where they literally had to pitch a 2nd half shutout to win the game. Period. How many defenses in this league can do that, especially when you're talking about an offense that gets one or two first downs the entire half and throws a pick that STARTS a drive at midfield? Not gonna happen. The defense could've played on an unreal level and still lost that game.

Los Broncos
11-16-2009, 08:30 AM
Goodman flat out sucks.

TonyR
11-16-2009, 08:30 AM
Fact: ...

Agree. But I think the fact that our defense wasn't better from start to finish against such a bad O spells big trouble for this team's outlook for the rest of the season. The defense was better weeks 1-6 than 7-9 and we're not going to win much with them playing even as well as they did yesterday. We needed the D to dominate yesterday because of the circumstances and it didn't. They needed to force Campbell into making mistakes (although we did get one and the refs blew the call). And they needed to slow the run better than they did. But again, I 100% agree you can't pin this loss on the defense.

Garcia Bronco
11-16-2009, 08:42 AM
Phil Simm's kid happened to our defense.

sisterhellfyre
11-16-2009, 09:51 AM
Phil Simm's kid happened to our defense.

-8 yards passing for the second half. That pretty much says it all.

missingnumber7
11-16-2009, 10:10 AM
Yep, I don't understand the denial. The defense played well overall, probably good enough to win with a better O performance, but not well enough. No matter how you slice it they gave up 174 yards rushing to an offense missing multiple key starters. To win consistently the defense will have to play better regardless of which unit is to blame. And if we can't dominate a bad team like the Redskins wait until you see the Chargers and Eagles offenses, among others we have to face.

LT is getting his gears goin...I'm scared for this week and then to have a short week for the Giants...YUCK.

azbroncfan
11-16-2009, 11:03 AM
Gap Control wasn't good by the front 7. Denver got pounded and looked very similar to last year.

Broncos4Life
11-16-2009, 02:10 PM
All this ****ing analysis over this **** game. **** it. Stick a fork in us. We're done!