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View Full Version : Ill tell you were this problem starts and its NOT at QB


Boss Man
11-15-2009, 02:29 PM
The problem starts in the trenches, as has been said for years our lilneman on both sides of the ball ****in SUCK. With the exception of 1 or 2. Both our D lineman get blown of the ball as well as our o lineman.

This is why we ware down in the second half, undersized under talented players in our trenches.

This is why our defense has just gotten shredded on the ground in the second half, and why we cant seem to put together a solid drive on offense.

Our number one priority next off season should be to acquire some talented lineman.

Discuss...

The Joker
11-15-2009, 02:32 PM
http://blog.al.com/press-register-sports/2009/08/large_terrence%20cody.JPG

Doggcow
11-15-2009, 02:33 PM
http://blog.al.com/press-register-sports/2009/08/large_terrence%20cody.JPG

Boob mojo?

NFLBRONCO
11-15-2009, 02:35 PM
Yeah this is why I don't understand the meltdowns about folding after midseason. I hate the folding too but, fans act like we just need to turn on a switch and things get fixed. Our team is weak and small and not talented on our lines that won't get cured overnight. Until we fix this the folds continue. Shanny did it for a decade I think McD deserves a few years to rebuild it.

bpc
11-15-2009, 02:38 PM
Give me a break. We were down 0-6 at Baltimore, and 3-7 against Pittsburgh. The DL or the OL wasn't the problem at that point. The QB was. Failed to capitalize on anything positive our offense had going.

Boss Man
11-15-2009, 02:44 PM
Give me a break. We were down 0-6 at Baltimore, and 3-7 against Pittsburgh. The DL or the OL wasn't the problem at that point. The QB was. Failed to capitalize on anything positive our offense had going.

apparently you cant read...i stated in the second half of games is where our collapses occur. this is due to both of our lines waring out and getting dominated.

The only guy on our defense that can even get any pressure on the QB is Dumervil and even he dissapears a lot, and we cant stop the run. Without blitzing our defense is just as bad as it was last year.

Bronx33
11-15-2009, 02:50 PM
a hailmary on first down turned the tide from that point on the D was on the field way too much because our backup QB stinks.

Popps
11-15-2009, 02:50 PM
Fixing the trenches can't be done in one offseason. We're much better across the front 7 than last year, but we're in transition from one kind of lineman to another.

Popps
11-15-2009, 02:52 PM
Give me a break. We were down 0-6 at Baltimore, and 3-7 against Pittsburgh. The DL or the OL wasn't the problem at that point. The QB was. Failed to capitalize on anything positive our offense had going.

Wow, Chris. I have a feeling this obsession isn't going away soon, huh?

Baltimore was all over Orton before he could take the snap. We had no chance in that game.

Against Pitt, Orton certainly had a bad game.

So, he's had one bad game out of 9, and had he stayed healthy... we'd be 7-2 with him as a starter.


He's not Elway, but we have bigger, more immediate problems. You've played the game. You should know better.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-15-2009, 02:52 PM
Fixing the trenches can't be done in one offseason. We're much better across the front 7 than last year, but we're in transition from one kind of lineman to another.

Yeah, people forget we are still a team in transition. After our hot start, the conversation shifted and loftier expectations replaced meager ones. If we had spread out our loses and were 6-3 (without dropping three straight), i think people would still be somewhat high on the broncos.

But yes, we arent the worst team in the league, probably not even a playoff team at this point, but a team in transition.

meangene
11-15-2009, 02:55 PM
The problem starts in the trenches, as has been said for years our lilneman on both sides of the ball ****in SUCK. With the exception of 1 or 2. Both our D lineman get blown of the ball as well as our o lineman.

This is why we ware down in the second half, undersized under talented players in our trenches.

This is why our defense has just gotten shredded on the ground in the second half, and why we cant seem to put together a solid drive on offense.

Our number one priority next off season should be to acquire some talented lineman.

Discuss...

This! Absolutely! We have three solid starting offensive linemen and that is it on the lines. The rest are nothing but backups and rotation guys.

Boss Man
01-03-2010, 05:11 PM
i say again. our offensive and defensive line play is just pathetic...

snowspot66
01-03-2010, 05:14 PM
Give me a break. We were down 0-6 at Baltimore, and 3-7 against Pittsburgh. The DL or the OL wasn't the problem at that point. The QB was. Failed to capitalize on anything positive our offense had going.

Do you even remember those games?

We were dominated on the offensive line the entire game in both games.

Defense only held up for a half.

SoCalBronco
01-03-2010, 05:17 PM
QB is absolutely a problem....but you are right that the trenches are also a big issue. Wilfork is a FA. If NE goes cheap and opts to just go with Brace next year, we should jump on it. Bowlen hasn't spent any money for 4 years now according to the study, so he needs to start shelling it out. And Orton cannot get a long term deal under any circumstances.

brother love
01-03-2010, 05:18 PM
I completely agree. Orton is not the problem. he was running for his life all day today.
The d-ends suck balls and our guards suck balls.

Popps
01-03-2010, 05:18 PM
You know, Orton was a problem today. No question, but I swear to god... right before he threw that first INT to Johnson I thought to myself... how long can we just throw throw throw until something goes wrong? The VERY next play, boom.

Again, I'm open to anything that improves us at the QB position... but it's just not going to matter until we can run the ball.

We simply can't open any holes, and were relegated to a 1-dimensional team. Once that happens, it's all over unless you've got Peyton Manning under center.

I have no idea how far this team can go with Orton, but one thing is certain... when you can't run the ball AT ALL, you aren't going to win playoff games.

This was effectively a playoff game. That team that opened up holes for its RB won.

gyldenlove
01-03-2010, 05:19 PM
The exact same offensive line who was setting franchise records 12 months ago is all of a sudden a huge problem? give me a break, this comes down to poor coaching and crappy QB play.

bpc
01-03-2010, 05:19 PM
Just remember, if Orton threw 2 INT's for TD's, Cutler would have thrown FOUR!!! Every day with Kyle is a much better day than we had with Jay!

Bigdawg26
01-03-2010, 05:33 PM
A Nose Guard (like that big tackle from bama) and a QB (Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford)!!!

The Joker
01-03-2010, 05:41 PM
I'm not opposed to investing a high pick in a QB, it's a crucial position and having an average player in such a crucial spot makes it tough.

That said, at least he's average.

Our interior O-Line is an absolute disgrace, and none of our D-Linemen should be depended on to do anything other than provide depth. None of them are any sort of difference making talent that teams have to account for when they're out there.

We need to spend money in FA this year, we can't just expect to draft solutions to our line problems and have them start on Day 1.

Mankins figures to be a FA, he should be targeted heavily IMO.

Marshall is as good as gone I fear, if we can get a 1st for him I think you really start thinking about moving up for Suh.

SureShot
01-03-2010, 05:42 PM
The problem starts in the trenches, as has been said for years our lilneman on both sides of the ball ****in SUCK. With the exception of 1 or 2. Both our D lineman get blown of the ball as well as our o lineman.

This is why we ware down in the second half, undersized under talented players in our trenches.

This is why our defense has just gotten shredded on the ground in the second half, and why we cant seem to put together a solid drive on offense.

Our number one priority next off season should be to acquire some talented lineman.

Discuss...

You cant fix that problem by drafting RBs TEs and DBs. Maybe you should write a letter to McDonalds.

NFLBRONCO
01-03-2010, 05:43 PM
We need more speed on O

Popps
01-03-2010, 05:46 PM
You cant fix that problem by drafting RBs TEs and DBs. Maybe you should write a letter to McDonalds.

Actually, we did pick up a couple of linemen and the TE was a blocking TE.

The defense was clearly a bigger worry to start the season.

That said, certainly... there should be no doubt what the biggest problem area on this team is, regardless of who's lining up behind center.

We got old and bad on the interior O-line very quickly.

We need at LEAST two new starters in the middle of the o-line, and I have no idea what will happen with Kuper.

If you don't have the lines, you watch playoff games from home. Here we are again.

But, this process wasn't going to happen overnight. Like McDaniels or not, this is a process that will take time.

tsiguy96
01-03-2010, 05:47 PM
the oline got killed today. by teh chiefs. moreno was hit in hte backfield on almost every single run, buck too.

dsmoot
01-03-2010, 05:57 PM
QB is absolutely a problem....but you are right that the trenches are also a big issue. Wilfork is a FA. If NE goes cheap and opts to just go with Brace next year, we should jump on it. Bowlen hasn't spent any money for 4 years now according to the study, so he needs to start shelling it out. And Orton cannot get a long term deal under any circumstances.

We all know Orton has limitations. You can't win with this type of QB unless you can consistently control the line of scrimmage and run the ball with authority at ANY point on the field. We are weak up the middle on the line of scrimmage which is fatal to running the ball and protecting an immobile QB. It does not appear we are particularly deep when we lose a front tier lineman.

Yes, you can't lock Orton up with a big guaranteed contract. Simms must go. Wiegmann/Hamilton must go. Berger must go. The NT position as mentioned must be improved. Marshall/Scheffler must go with value in return. It killed me to see Nick Eason and Trevor Pryce make plays today. We need to see a real pass catching tight end that can block - do we keep Graham?

mhgaffney
01-03-2010, 06:03 PM
After Orton threw two picks today -- both run back for TDs --

both because he UNDERTHREW his receivers

which cost us the game and maybe getting into the playoffs

this thread looks pretty lame.

Orton and McDaniels are the problem.

scttgrd
01-03-2010, 06:03 PM
When are we going to ask about the coach? So much for the leadership of the team. The head is rotten and the whole team is suffering.

ScottXray
01-03-2010, 06:15 PM
We all know Orton has limitations. You can't win with this type of QB unless you can consistently control the line of scrimmage and run the ball with authority at ANY point on the field. We are weak up the middle on the line of scrimmage which is fatal to running the ball and protecting an immobile QB. It does not appear we are particularly deep when we lose a front tier lineman.

Yes, you can't lock Orton up with a big guaranteed contract. Simms must go. Wiegmann/Hamilton must go. Berger must go. The NT position as mentioned must be improved. Marshall/Scheffler must go with value in return. It killed me to see Nick Eason and Trevor Pryce make plays today. We need to see a real pass catching tight end that can block - do we keep Graham?

Marshall doesn't HAVE to go, but if he wants top money and won't negotiate in good faith then Franchise tag him and take a minimum 1 and 3 pick for him if someone else wants him. He is a talent that we should not give up cheap. At the same time he hasn't taken over any games and dominated the scoring.

Sheffler needs to be replaced, and Graham and Quinn haven't been consistent stick movers. We are going to need a TE that can help the offense move the sticks consistently.

Orton is adequate....if we have some ability to run. Simms definitely is gone....and Brandstater is ? A low round QB I see in the draft , but we need the lines to compete first before wasting a pick in the high rounds there. Also I could see a RB in the later rounds.

More than anything else we need O and D linemen that can control the line of scrimmage and make plays when needed. The trenches ARE our weakness.

Dumervil will probably be tendered high, and we need to sign him , but If he can't be signed we need to get a high pick for him too.

Its going to be really interesting again this off season.

scttgrd
01-03-2010, 06:19 PM
Better hope there is no CBA, how many guys walk without being handcuffed to this team?

dsmoot
01-03-2010, 06:20 PM
Marshall doesn't HAVE to go, but if he wants top money and won't negotiate in good faith then Franchise tag him and take a minimum 1 and 3 pick for him if someone else wants him. He is a talent that we should not give up cheap. At the same time he hasn't taken over any games and dominated the scoring.

Sheffler needs to be replaced, and Graham and Quinn haven't been consistent stick movers. We are going to need a TE that can help the offense move the sticks consistently.

Orton is adequate....if we have some ability to run. Simms definitely is gone....and Brandstater is ? A low round QB I see in the draft , but we need the lines to compete first before wasting a pick in the high rounds there. Also I could see a RB in the later rounds.

More than anything else we need O and D linemen that can control the line of scrimmage and make plays when needed. The trenches ARE our weakness.

Dumervil will probably be tendered high, and we need to sign him , but If he can't be signed we need to get a high pick for him too.

Its going to be really interesting again this off season.

I don't want to see Marshall's talent leave. I want to see Marshall the person leave ... at this point, if we can get some talent in return, moving him is addition by subtraction. Better to cut bait before he implodes and he still has value.

broncosteven
01-03-2010, 06:21 PM
The problem starts in the trenches, as has been said for years our lilneman on both sides of the ball ****in SUCK. With the exception of 1 or 2. Both our D lineman get blown of the ball as well as our o lineman.

This is why we ware down in the second half, undersized under talented players in our trenches.

This is why our defense has just gotten shredded on the ground in the second half, and why we cant seem to put together a solid drive on offense.

Our number one priority next off season should be to acquire some talented lineman.

Discuss...

I agree we need a Center and a Guard, maybe a RT if Harris cannot stay healthy but the real problem is with our HC.

Gort
01-03-2010, 06:25 PM
I completely agree. Orton is not the problem. he was running for his life all day today.
The d-ends suck balls and our guards suck balls.

orton is not a playmaker. that's ok so long as you have a couple of legit playmakers on the offense. if you don't, or if they are injured, or if the HEAD COACH REFUSES TO BE A CREATIVE PLAYCALLER, then orton's lack of playmaking ability can hurt you. i am not anti-orton by any means. and he can lead this team into the post season if we could get the ball into our playmakers' hands. for whatever reason, McD won't or can't do that week in and week out.

was anybody else frustrated at today's running attack. never once did i feel like the Broncos runner had a chance to break one. and on almost every play i feared that the KC runner would (and he did!). how can our run defense be so bad? look what OAK did a couple of weeks ago. didn't they have a 3 play drive for a TD that went about 85 yards all on the ground? disgusting.

TheChamp24
01-03-2010, 06:36 PM
QB is a problem, but it isn't a glaring issue.
A good/great QB can make a marginal line look amazing, for instance Roethlisberger and his ability to move in the pocket and keep plays open. I think Orton at times doesn't throw the pass he should for fear of something bad potentially happening. This is just an assumption, because I see him being very hesitant or he just dumps it off for a 2 yard gain without really looking at other routes. Then his pocket presence is awful, going down with a hand or not stepping up in the pocket/too afraid of the blitz. Oh, and he can not throw on the run with accuracy.
However, we need interiorlinemen that don't get ragdolled. As well, the DL needs tremendous help. Those are priority.

ColoradoDarin
01-03-2010, 06:46 PM
The exact same offensive line who was setting franchise records 12 months ago is all of a sudden a huge problem? give me a break, this comes down to poor coaching and crappy QB play.

Polumbus = Harris

You = Fail

:)

ward63
01-03-2010, 06:47 PM
QB is a problem, but it isn't a glaring issue.
A good/great QB can make a marginal line look amazing, for instance Roethlisberger and his ability to move in the pocket and keep plays open. I think Orton at times doesn't throw the pass he should for fear of something bad potentially happening. This is just an assumption, because I see him being very hesitant or he just dumps it off for a 2 yard gain without really looking at other routes. Then his pocket presence is awful, going down with a hand or not stepping up in the pocket/too afraid of the blitz. Oh, and he can not throw on the run with accuracy.
However, we need interiorlinemen that don't get ragdolled. As well, the DL needs tremendous help. Those are priority.

Speaking he rarely ran and when he did, he got hurt or looked awful at doing it. You think about it...Plummer and Cutler had about the same OL, but they were able to move. Orton is a sitting duck!

Captain 'Dre
01-03-2010, 06:56 PM
Just remember, if Orton threw 2 INT's for TD's, Cutler would have thrown FOUR!!! Every day with Kyle is a much better day than we had with Jay!

Yeah, but Jay always seemed to lose with more flair. :oyvey:

baja
01-03-2010, 07:14 PM
The problem starts in the trenches, as has been said for years our lilneman on both sides of the ball ****in SUCK. With the exception of 1 or 2. Both our D lineman get blown of the ball as well as our o lineman.

This is why we ware down in the second half, undersized under talented players in our trenches.

This is why our defense has just gotten shredded on the ground in the second half, and why we cant seem to put together a solid drive on offense.

Our number one priority next off season should be to acquire some talented lineman.

Discuss...

This is the way I see it too, especially the o line now that we shiit canned the ZBS.

jhat01
01-03-2010, 07:19 PM
After Orton threw two picks today -- both run back for TDs --

both because he UNDERTHREW his receivers

which cost us the game and maybe getting into the playoffs

this thread looks pretty lame.

Orton and McDaniels are the problem.

Don't give the defense a pass today...Talent has as much to do with what happened today then anything. Marshall in the game today changes very little when you cant stop the run

TonyR
01-03-2010, 07:20 PM
I love how some people still don't see the glaring problem with the O-line.

I was listening to the game on KOA and they were talking about how Moreno had two to three Chiefs in the backfield on him almost every run while Charles was getting effective blocking up front. They were looking down at Dennison after yet another run got blown up and commented how Dennison was just disgusted with what he was seeing.

Whether it's declining talent, scheme/talent mismatch, injuries, or some combination of these factors, it has to get fixed. When an average QB like Orton has no running game backing him up you have no chance.

elsid13
01-03-2010, 07:25 PM
I completely agree. Orton is not the problem. he was running for his life all day today.
The d-ends suck balls and our guards suck balls.

What are you talking about? Orton had some of the cleanest pockets I have ever seen a QB have. He got great protect today.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 07:29 PM
We all know Orton has limitations. You can't win with this type of QB unless you can consistently control the line of scrimmage and run the ball with authority at ANY point on the field.

This goes for EVERY QB in the league.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 07:30 PM
What are you talking about? Orton had some of the cleanest pockets I have ever seen a QB have. He got great protect today.

You need to watch more games......like the Jets right now. Or any Colts or most Philly games.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 07:32 PM
After Orton threw two picks today -- both run back for TDs --

both because he UNDERTHREW his receivers

which cost us the game and maybe getting into the playoffs

this thread looks pretty lame.



Please. Even if those two picks don't happen, they don't win this game. Outside of a handful of plays, the defense didn't even bother taking the field.

elsid13
01-03-2010, 08:18 PM
You need to watch more games......like the Jets right now. Or any Colts or most Philly games.

Do you think Orton was under pressure today ~ yes or no?

SureShot
01-03-2010, 08:20 PM
Orton might not be where it starts but it doesnt take long to call roll.

Jason in LA
01-03-2010, 08:22 PM
Orton is not "the" problem. But he certainly is "a" problem.

Popps
01-03-2010, 08:22 PM
Do you think Orton was under pressured today ~ yes or no?

A few times, but it's more the lack of any running game that's going to destroy our chances.

Given, those picks were just poor choices. Not defending those throws at all. (And a great play by the defender.)

But, when you ask a QB to throw all day long with no running game... you'd better make sure you've got John Elway back there.

We don't.

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:23 PM
Do you think Orton was under pressured today ~ yes or no?

Yes. Clady, once again, was having trouble with Hali and it showed. Other DLs were breaking through on occasion. Sure, there were a good percentage of plays where he had ample time to make his reads, but Orton was scrambling quite a bit out of necessity too.

SoDak Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:24 PM
ORTON IS NOT THE ANSWER...Short Term maybe, but def. not long term. We need to draft a Franchise QB or hope to get lucky and stumble upon a late rounder. Oline and Dline are also huge problems. Hopefully we can sign Bradford with at 10 and build from there.

jhns
01-03-2010, 08:25 PM
What are you talking about? Orton had some of the cleanest pockets I have ever seen a QB have. He got great protect today.

Exactly. These guys will throw everyone else under the bus to say Orton is great. I don't get it. You can't ask for better pass protection. I think most here just look at the box score when the game is done. I have no clue what they are seeing.

colorado jones
01-03-2010, 08:27 PM
Do you think Orton was under pressured today ~ yes or no?

Hell yeah, Glenn Dorsey got that first elusive sack of the year!

In reality I felt like Orton had time to throw majority of the time today....the run blocking however....

Jekyll15Hyde
01-03-2010, 08:28 PM
I agree we need a Center and a Guard, maybe a RT if Harris cannot stay healthy but the real problem is with our HC.
I am not sold on Kuper either. We need more size across the board.

KipCorrington25
01-03-2010, 08:28 PM
Orton sucks, get him out of here ASAP, if he's the stop gap for another year then we can deal with 4 and 12 until someone better develops but if they sign him to a big money long term deal I'll be pissed.

WakeUpCall
01-03-2010, 08:31 PM
Perhaps it's also that your city has a tent for an airport, and the rest of the city is America's armpit...

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:34 PM
Exactly. These guys will throw everyone else under the bus to say Orton is great. I don't get it. You can't ask for better pass protection. I think most here just look at the box score when the game is done. I have no clue what they are seeing.

Funny, cause technically if you only look at the box score the concept of blaming pass protection would never even enter the discussion. Box score readers would always go after the guys that actually appear in the box score, like the QB. So maybe it's those that actually discuss the OLine and non skill players are the ones actually watching the game.

ScottXray
01-03-2010, 08:34 PM
Hell yeah, Glenn Dorsey got that first elusive sack of the year!

In reality I felt like Orton had time to throw majority of the time today....the run blocking however....

Orton did get some pressure today, and amazingly even scrambled a few times to get out of trouble. So yeah the line didn't give him a clean pocket all the time. Hali started getting past Clady again the last quarter especially.
But until then he mostly had good protection, and he was getting the ball off cleanly without much pressure. Can't really say he was under a LOT of pressure. But he certainly was under more than we put on Cassel.

Dumervil had left the building, again.

jhns
01-03-2010, 08:35 PM
Funny, cause technically if you only look at the box score the concept of blaming pass protection would never even enter the discussion. Box score readers would always go after the guys that actually appear in the box score, like the QB. So maybe it's those that actually discuss the OLine and non skill players are the ones actually watching the game.

Or the ones that think nothing can be Ortons fault....

Beantown Bronco
01-03-2010, 08:36 PM
Or the ones that think nothing can be Ortons fault....

I've been the biggest Orton fan here and time and again I've pointed out his faults.