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View Full Version : Paige: Woody's Mailbag, Tickets a hot topic


RMT
11-12-2009, 10:34 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13766778

"Note to readers: Because my two columns this week have generated such a firestorm and several hundred e-mails, I will address those two subjects in this week's mailbag.

The first was about how 20,000 Steelers fans had taken over the stadium on Monday night because Broncos' season-ticket holders chose to sell their tickets to Steelers fans.

The second was about why the Broncos should start backup quarterback Chris Simms in Washington. The majority of the e-mails supported both of my positions, but there was a vocal minority, including this e-mail:

Mr. Paige,

I am a "no-show, no-clue 'fan'" Let me tell you who else I am.

I am a season-ticket holder. My father bought season tickets in 1962 and transferred them to me in 1996. I would venture a guess that my family has paid for and attended a few more games than you have.

I am also a father of four. I sold nine out of 10 of my season tickets this year. The one I didn't sell was the fourth and final preseason game, which was my 7-year-old son's first Bronco game.

I am also one of the thousands, tens-of-thousands, hard-working tax payers who found themselves out of work at the beginning of 2009 when my company laid me off at the end of 2008. Faced with a May "payment due" date from the Denver Broncos, I opted to sell rather than use my unemployment checks to pay for extravagance.

Mr. Paige, you are paid to offend, and this time you hit your mark. My advice to you: stick to TV where they slap you with makeup and sit next to a "mute" button. Without us no-clue" fans you wouldn't have a job.
Chris Bruno, Arvada

Chris: Despite your feelings about me, I believe I understand your plight. My father spent more than 25 years with a company before he became disabled. When a major corporation bought out the company, my father was unceremoniously fired. We lived in a government housing project when I was a kid. We knew hard times when my dad was making a dollar a day. Then, at the end of his life (he was in his 40s when he died), my dad was a diabetic with one leg amputated, without a job and without much hope. My parents had to sell their nice house, and I had to drop out of school.

I am not paid to offend. Nobody I've ever worked for in 43 years of journalism has told me to offend. In fact, I think my editors, publishers and the newspaper owner would prefer that I be nicer. What I am paid to do is offer an opinion. I respect your opinion, and would hope you would respect my right in a free country to have an opinion.

My opinion was, and remains, that Broncos season-ticket holders should not sell their tickets to Pittsburgh Steelers fans. The Broncos claim that there are 23,000 people on the waiting list for season tickets. There are hundreds of thousands of other people in Colorado who would like to go to a game. But close to 50,000 season ticket-holders put their tickets on StubHub or eBay or Craigslist or probably a dozen other websites that broker tickets, and the Steelers fans, who have the strongest core of backers throughout the country (220 fan clubs) -- and, as I wrote at the Super Bowl, Pittsburgh is really America's Team -- bought up the tickets. Why wouldn't people here go to their friends, their neighbors, their fellow workers who might actually like the Broncos and sell to them? One might not be a true fan of the team if he or she is willing to sell their season tickets to somebody who will wave yellow towels and wear a jersey supporting the other team. You're smart enough to know that.
I don't blame you for selling your tickets and making a profit. I have no idea what you sold them for, and don't care (hope you made a fortune), but why not sell them to Broncos fans? It's easy enough. Put an ad in The Post or walk up to people at the one game you went to and ask them if they want to buy tickets for the season, and contact them. (But don't scalp on city property.)

I understand that the economy has affected you and so many others. Sell your tickets to every game to one person or family. Give up your ticket rights. Ask a friend to take over the season tickets until you get back on your feet, and you will. Or sell your tickets to the few Chiefs or Browns fans that came here. All visiting teams except Pittsburgh sell a couple of hundred tickets, generally. In fact, there are several sections in one corner that are usually empty because that's where the visiting team's allotment is.

Some guy wrote me and said I didn't get it, that the Broncos sold all those tickets to brokers. He's such a fool. The Broncos don't own those tickets. They've already been sold to season-ticket holders such as yourself, and the Broncos have no control over what you do with them. I talked with the Broncos' ticket manager on Friday. He said there was not one ticket available.

I know that 20,000 people didn't come from Pittsburgh. I imagine half of those were Steelers fans who live in Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, etc. They're like Nebraska fans who buy up tickets at the CU-Nebraska game in Boulder. Difference is, CU doesn't sell out its season tickets. The Broncos do. If you want to take advantage of capitalism, I'm all for you.

But it doesn't say much for the fans who have jobs and have money and sold their tickets. Do you think those 20,000 tickets came from people out of work? I don't think so. I think they came from so-called fans that were more eager to make money than support their team. Fine, but don't complain about rising ticket costs if you're going to turn around and sell them for twice as much.

My friend gave up his tickets and bought a big screen and an easy chair and watches the games from home.

Again, I wish you well and am certain you will find a great job soon. You have a right to sell your tickets. I have a right to offer my honest opinion.

And to all the people who said I don't know since I don't have to buy tickets for the games, that I get a free ticket. Whenever I am not covering a game, I buy tickets just like everyone else. When I am covering a game, it's a job. I'm not a fan, and I don't sit there drinking beer and cheering. The press box is my office. And if it weren't my job, I'd be in the mountains watching the aspen turn.

Do what you want with your tickets, but when the Broncos struggle to win at home, a lot of people should look in their own mirrors."

_________________________________________________


Bruno is full of shi+. If you can't afford the tickets in May, by all means SELL them - but TO BRONCOS' FANS. Woody never said to NOT sell them - just be mindful of WHO you sell them to.

Many of us have taken it on the chin some financially this year. It is very tempting to sell our tickets to the highest bidder but to me, it's also a matter of principle. I want our team to have home field advantage at HOME games. I can control WHO I sell my tickets to. To ENSURE they go to Broncos' fans, sell to friends and family. If you aren't sure, meet them at the game and make them walk into the stadium with you.

But if you do sell to others and the tickets end up in the hands of opposing fans, you are also running the risk of those fans being reported for "fan misconduct" - is the extra $$$ worth the risk of LOSING YOUR RIGHTS?! Not to me it isn't. Just expect to be the recipient of some local fan wrath in your section at future home games.

bowtown
11-12-2009, 10:52 AM
_________________________________________________


Bruno is full of shi+. If you can't afford the tickets in May, by all means SELL them - but TO BRONCOS' FANS. Woody never said to NOT sell them - just be mindful of WHO you sell them to.

Many of us have taken it on the chin some financially this year. It is very tempting to sell our tickets to the highest bidder but to me, it's also a matter of principle. I want our team to have home field advantage at HOME games. I can control WHO I sell my tickets to. To ENSURE they go to Broncos' fans, sell to friends and family. If you aren't sure, meet them at the game and make them walk into the stadium with you.

But if you do sell to others and the tickets end up in the hands of opposing fans, you are also running the risk of those fans being reported for "fan misconduct" - is the extra $$$ worth the risk of LOSING YOUR RIGHTS?! Not to me it isn't. Just expect to be the recipient of some local fan wrath in your section at future home games.

It's just football. The health and well being of your family is far more important. If you are hurting and you can get more money from a Steeler fan than a Bronco fan, then sell it to the highest bidder. How come the Steelers fans are willing to pay more to see their team?

jmz313
11-12-2009, 11:11 AM
I agree with bowtown. highest bidder if it really matters. Fans in the stands DO NOT WON OR LOOSE GAMES! thats just nosense, and only gets brought up after a loss. namely 2 loses to the steelers in recent history. they travel well, spend well, cheer well. Broncos just need to play better and win, and it wont matter to anyone.

Now, i gotta go meet the Skins ticket holdler and get my $500 wiorth of tix for $200 bucks for sunday

ak1971
11-12-2009, 11:12 AM
not this **** again...

HAT
11-12-2009, 11:13 AM
_________________________________________________

Just expect to be the recipient of some local fan wrath in your section at future home games.

:rofl:

I'm not in Denver and nor am I a season ticket holder. But if I was and I came back to a game after I sold my tix on Craigslist or whatever and some douche tried to give me **** b/c a Pitt fan ended up in my seats....Let's just say I would laugh out loud and tell them to eff off.

I am a die hard Angels fan and yeah it kind of sucked how many Yankee & Red Sox fans were at the Big A during the playoffs but SFW? It's a free market. Once you own something, you can do whatever the hell you want with it (as long as it's legal).

Anyone who would falsely report 'fan misconduct' on another STH simply because an opposing fan ended up in their seats is a fawking baby and a total d!ck.

Tombstone RJ
11-12-2009, 11:19 AM
You suck Chris Bruno.

RMT
11-12-2009, 11:19 AM
:rofl:

I'm not in Denver and nor am I a season ticket holder. But if I was and I came back to a game after I sold my tix on Craigslist or whatever and some douche tried to give me **** b/c a Pitt fan ended up in my seats....Let's just say I would laugh out loud and tell them to eff off.

I am a die hard Angels fan and yeah it kind of sucked how many Yankee & Red Sox fans were at the Big A during the playoffs but SFW? It's a free market. Once you own something, you can do whatever the hell you want with it (as long as it's legal).

Anyone who would falsely report 'fan misconduct' on another STH simply because an opposing fan ended up in their seats is a fawking baby and a total d!ck.

no one said false reporting "misconduct" - but i certainly would be less tolerant.

it's amazing how people choose to define "fan" these days.

Tombstone RJ
11-12-2009, 11:21 AM
Edit: you suck you crybaby Chris Bruno.

jhns
11-12-2009, 11:24 AM
See, this is why Denver fans are a 6. Now some of you are even defending giving up tickets to other teams fans. That is sad. If you can't afford the tickets, give them up. There is a long list of fans that will support this team. You aren't supporting them when the other teams colors are in your seat, period.

missingnumber7
11-12-2009, 11:25 AM
It's just football. The health and well being of your family is far more important. If you are hurting and you can get more money from a Steeler fan than a Bronco fan, then sell it to the highest bidder. How come the Steelers fans are willing to pay more to see their team?

Cuz tickets in their stadium are much more inflated then ours is and they have a much longer waiting list than ours is.

Beantown Bronco
11-12-2009, 11:27 AM
See, this is why Denver fans are a 6. Now some of you are even defending giving up tickets to other teams fans. That is sad. If you can't afford the tickets, give them up. There is a long list of fans that will support this team. You aren't supporting them when the other teams colors are in your seat, period.

Everyone has a price.

jhns
11-12-2009, 11:28 AM
It's just football. The health and well being of your family is far more important. If you are hurting and you can get more money from a Steeler fan than a Bronco fan, then sell it to the highest bidder. How come the Steelers fans are willing to pay more to see their team?

Getting Broncos season tickets should not be about making money. If you can't afford them, stop buying them. Many others that can afford them will show some respect to the team they are a fan of.

ak1971
11-12-2009, 11:35 AM
:rofl:

I'm not in Denver and nor am I a season ticket holder. But if I was and I came back to a game after I sold my tix on Craigslist or whatever and some douche tried to give me **** b/c a Pitt fan ended up in my seats....Let's just say I would laugh out loud and tell them to eff off.

I am a die hard Angels fan and yeah it kind of sucked how many Yankee & Red Sox fans were at the Big A during the playoffs but SFW? It's a free market. Once you own something, you can do whatever the hell you want with it (as long as it's legal).

Anyone who would falsely report 'fan misconduct' on another STH simply because an opposing fan ended up in their seats is a fawking baby and a total d!ck.

Exactly..this whole 'better fan than thou' thing is laughable.

HAT
11-12-2009, 11:37 AM
no one said false report - but i certainly would be less tolerant.

it's amazing how people choose to define "fan" these days.

"Fan" has nothing to do with it. Are there people in it strictly for the profit? Sure, but the fact remains is you can't know every situation and therefore have no right to give 'wrath' to anyone.

If my son breaks his arm playing basketball on Saturday morning and I need to dump my tickets quick....I call a buddy or two first but after that I'm going to get rid of them as quickly and conveniently as possible. I'm not going to demand a GD background check to make sure they go to a Bronco fan.

You're also assuming that the out of towner in the seats bought them directly from the STH. If I need to sell my tickets on Friday and someone at work has a friend that's a Bronco fan...I sell them no questions asked. That guy could change his mind on Saturday, sell them to a broker, who has a runner sell them to a Pitt fan walk up on Sunday morning.

BFD...a Pitt fan got to see his favorite team play an away game. Just like I get to do when I go watch Denver play in SD, Oak, SF, SEA. AZ.

jhns
11-12-2009, 11:41 AM
Exactly..this whole 'better fan than thou' thing is laughable.

No what is laughable is you think those that don't care about supporting their team, instead looking to make a profit, are actually fans....

enjolras
11-12-2009, 11:42 AM
Again, it's not like this doesn't happen in reverse.

I went to a Broncos game in Dallas while I lived there (Thanksgiving day). It was practically a Bronco home game.

RMT
11-12-2009, 11:43 AM
no what is laughable is you think those that don't care about supporting their team, instead looking to make a profit, are actually fans....

qft!

ak1971
11-12-2009, 11:46 AM
cool...my first neg rep!

'it's funny how stuff like this gets the bandwagon season ticketholders all riled up.'

'Traitor! '

jhns
11-12-2009, 11:48 AM
Again, it's not like this doesn't happen in reverse.

I went to a Broncos game in Dallas while I lived there (Thanksgiving day). It was practically a Bronco home game.

I go to away games as well. I go to almost every KC away game. There is a difference if the crowd has a few away fans compared to a lot of them. If I see a lot of away fans, I certainly don't walk away thinking that team has good fans.

HEAV
11-12-2009, 11:52 AM
Everyone has a price.

That's what it really comes down to. If a person can maximize his profit by seeling to a rival fan then that person is goinig to do so.

Look we all would love to see the seats filled with 90% home team fans, but right now (today) it's not going to happen. Teams can't sellout games, the blackouts are increasing in some markets.

The extra income dollars are just not there anymore for some people.

Williams
11-12-2009, 12:00 PM
It's shameful seeing so many opposing fans at Invesco. I agree with Woody here 100%. The Simms matter, on the other hand... Uhh

lex
11-12-2009, 12:00 PM
It's just football. The health and well being of your family is far more important. If you are hurting and you can get more money from a Steeler fan than a Bronco fan, then sell it to the highest bidder. How come the Steelers fans are willing to pay more to see their team?

Bleh. Season tickets represent the right to see a game, not make a profit. A lot of states take measures to crack down on the faux fans. Why Colorado hasnt been smart enough to do the same is a good question to be asked. Perhaps its because the faux fan nonsense that guys like Bruno represent is probably THAT widespread. THAT many "poor me" fans (as inexplicable as it may be...again, if you can pay for the season tickets, dont cry poverty when someone comes down on you for being the faux fan you are) are probably one of the reasons such a crackdown doesnt find momentum.


Some states, dont allow people with credit cards from opposing states to purchase tickets to local games. And in Massachusetts you have a law that basically says season ticket holders cant profiteer from selling their season tickets and they generally enforce this. That Colorado hasnt fallen suit is disgusting.

HAT
11-12-2009, 12:02 PM
I go to away games as well. I go to almost every KC away game. There is a difference if the crowd has a few away fans compared to a lot of them. If I see a lot of away fans, I certainly don't walk away thinking that team has good fans.

:gus:

Again....It has nothing to do with how good of fans the HOME team have. It's how well the AWAY team fans travel (or how big their transplant or bandwagon base is)

If 20,000 Denver fans wanted tickets to ANY away game bad enough...I guarantee you it would happen.

Newsflash....The: Steelers, Cowboys, Giants, Lakers, Celtics, Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Penguins, Bruins, Maple Leafs, Cornhuskers, Trojans, Gators et al have gigantic, well healed fan bases in every part of this nation and when they want tickets...they get tickets.

It has NOTHING to do with the home fan base.

lex
11-12-2009, 12:07 PM
:gus:

Again....It has nothing to do with how good of fans the HOME team have. It's how well the AWAY team fans travel (or how big their transplant or bandwagon base is)

If 20,000 Denver fans wanted tickets to ANY away game bad enough...I guarantee you it would happen.

Newsflash....The: Steelers, Cowboys, Giants, Lakers, Celtics, Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Penguins, Bruins, Maple Leafs, Cornhuskers, Trojans, Gators et al have gigantic, well healed fan bases in every part of this nation and when they want tickets...they get tickets.

It has NOTHING to do with the home fan base.

This is nonsense. It has everything to do with the home team fanbase. Theres no way that kind of representation exists without a bunch of Benedict Arnolds profiteering and then crying poverty like Bruno...as if thats really an excuse. If the season ticket holders lived up to being being fans, then opposing fans wouldnt be an issue. All of this nonsense you speak is just a bunch of window dressing and excuse making for people doing whatever the **** they want and calling it something else.

HAT
11-12-2009, 12:11 PM
This is nonsense. It has everything to do with the home team fanbase. Theres no way that kind of representation exists without a bunch of Benedict Arnolds profiteering and then crying poverty like Bruno...as if thats really an excuse. If the season ticket holders lived up to being being fans, then opposing fans wouldnt be an issue. All of this nonsense you speak is just a bunch of window dressing and excuse making for people doing whatever the **** they want and calling it something else.

So who has the "best" home team fan base in the NFL in this regard in your opinion?

jhns
11-12-2009, 12:12 PM
:gus:

Again....It has nothing to do with how good of fans the HOME team have. It's how well the AWAY team fans travel (or how big their transplant or bandwagon base is)

If 20,000 Denver fans wanted tickets to ANY away game bad enough...I guarantee you it would happen.

Newsflash....The: Steelers, Cowboys, Giants, Lakers, Celtics, Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Penguins, Bruins, Maple Leafs, Cornhuskers, Trojans, Gators et al have gigantic, well healed fan bases in every part of this nation and when they want tickets...they get tickets.

It has NOTHING to do with the home fan base.

Really? What is the last Steelers game you saw with a lot of other teams fans? How about Bears? There are many teams that never see that many away fans at home games. Have they just never played a team with good traveling fans?

Again, 6.

Hercules Rockefeller
11-12-2009, 12:14 PM
There might have been 20k Dallas fans at Invesco in Week 4, but that might be pushing it. There were no where near as many Steelers fans there Monday night as there were Dallas fans in Week 4.

Beantown Bronco
11-12-2009, 12:14 PM
So who has the "best" home team fan base in the NFL in this regard in your opinion?

Not sure what he thinks, but I'd go with Green Bay, since the folks in the stands are all full season ticketholders and stockholders in the team. Just guessing here, but I'd imagine that puts extra pressure and restrictions on them to keep their tix and not resell them.

ak1971
11-12-2009, 12:15 PM
:gus:

Again....It has nothing to do with how good of fans the HOME team have. It's how well the AWAY team fans travel (or how big their transplant or bandwagon base is)

If 20,000 Denver fans wanted tickets to ANY away game bad enough...I guarantee you it would happen.

Newsflash....The: Steelers, Cowboys, Giants, Lakers, Celtics, Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Penguins, Bruins, Maple Leafs, Cornhuskers, Trojans, Gators et al have gigantic, well healed fan bases in every part of this nation and when they want tickets...they get tickets.

It has NOTHING to do with the home fan base.

I think it also has alot to do with the ever changing demographic of the Rocky Mountain Region also. New people are moving here all the time..and with the rust belt being the ****hole that it is. = more fans from other teams.

HAT
11-12-2009, 12:17 PM
Really? What is the last Steelers game you saw with a lot of other teams fans? How about Bears? There are many teams that never see that many away fans at home games. Have they just never played a team with good traveling fans?

Again, 6.

I could buy a ticket to the next Steelers or Bears home game inside of 10 minutes if I wanted. And I could wear whatever jersey I wanted to that game. If I can, anyone can.

If there is enough demand....the supply will ALWAYS be there.

jhns
11-12-2009, 12:21 PM
I could buy a ticket to the next Steelers or Bears home game inside of 10 minutes if I wanted. And I could wear whatever jersey I wanted to that game. If I can, anyone can.

If there is enough demand....the supply will ALWAYS be there.

A fan giving up their ticket is a tad different than thousands of fans giving their tickets to opposing fans. No, their isn't always supply. Again, what is the last game you remember for either of those teams that had a ton of away fans? Nice try on dodging that. It kinda needs to be answered for your point to be made.

lex
11-12-2009, 12:23 PM
So who has the "best" home team fan base in the NFL in this regard in your opinion?

Nonissue.

Youre point where you just say, its no ones fault other teams have better fan bases is really just nonsense to cover up people doing whatever the **** they want because they feel entitlement. People want to do whatever the **** they want and not be called out for it. People want to be a greedy prick and be called some guy in hardship instead of a greedy prick, which is what he really is. Its this "everyone gets a trophy" world that we live in.

BTW, Denver, allegedly had and even probably has one of the biggest fanbases too. Its a franchise that is from a city that is far from the biggest yet recently it was ranked as one of the most valuable NFL teams and a large reason is because of the fanbase. But among the fanbase there are a lot of posers like Bruno who are faux fans, that like to really do what they want and not have people call a spade a spade through some mental gymnastics or some descriptive, verbal tango. Thats bull**** and its a bunch of whiney bull****. If you want to talk about a difference in fanbases it probably has more to do with tolerating that kind of bull**** than it does "new york is bigger than Denver" even though Mile High only seats 75,000 or so.

Historically speaking, Denver has had one of the most stalwart fanbases in the league. It has a sellout streak that is only surpassed by Green Bay. But unlike Green Bay, it wasnt borne out of some dynasty. In fact, Denver's sellout streak pre-dates its first winning season by 3 years. So, historically speaking, Denver's fanbase has ranked with anyone. But more recently, youve had a bunch of Californians move out to Colorado and everyone knows what fan "support" means to them. And so the solidarity among Denvers fanbase isnt maybe what it once was. You still have legions of fans but then you also have posers like Bruno and people who have moved to Colorado from California who think that its cool to do this when you have a waiting list of thousands of real fans who would gladly buy tickets to actually go to the games.

RMT
11-12-2009, 12:25 PM
So who has the "best" home team fan base in the NFL in this regard in your opinion?

my goodness - i think Lex's post is the first ever that i actually agree with ... what's wrong with me?

tsiguy96
11-12-2009, 12:26 PM
No what is laughable is you think those that don't care about supporting their team, instead looking to make a profit, are actually fans....

i find it ironic you of all people can criticize others for not supporting the team.

HAT
11-12-2009, 12:26 PM
http://greenbay.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=packers&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=eagles&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://chicago.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=bears&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://dallas.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=cowboys&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=steelers&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://boston.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=patriots&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=giants&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=colts&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

lex
11-12-2009, 12:29 PM
http://greenbay.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=packers&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=eagles&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://chicago.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=bears&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://dallas.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=cowboys&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=steelers&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://boston.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=patriots&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=giants&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/search/tix?query=colts&catAbbreviation=tix&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

This is a feeble attempt. 7 pages of Craigslist that consists of multiple games hardly equals 20,000.

Nice try though.

jhns
11-12-2009, 12:29 PM
i find it ironic you of all people can criticize others for not supporting the team.

Yes, because not liking us giving away a QB is me not supporting the team. Screw the money and cheering I put in. My opinion on one subject means I don't support them.

Don't you have some crying to do? Are you all caught up on your daily crying?

HAT
11-12-2009, 12:30 PM
A fan giving up their ticket is a tad different than thousands of fans giving their tickets to opposing fans. No, their isn't always supply. Again, what is the last game you remember for either of those teams that had a ton of away fans? Nice try on dodging that. It kinda needs to be answered for your point to be made.

WTF are you talking about? I'm not dodging anything. If I was a Bengals fan and wanted to go to the game at Heinz on Sunday, I could. So could 19,999 others if they wanted.

Demand will ALWAYS create supply.

TailgateNut
11-12-2009, 12:31 PM
Let me start off by saying Woody is a Dick. Plain and simple. Always has been and most likely always will be.

Now on to the ticket issue.

Those who have known me for more than a few days know I frown on the profiteering that occurs way to often, but I do understand those who sell due to hard times. I know I wouldn'd give up my "low priority number" ticket rights for nothing but the choices are limited.
One can either go the safe route as advised by the Broncos, which is to put them on the team exchange (Ticketmaster "light"), which guarantees you will not be held accoutable for the actions of the person who sits in your seats, or one can sell them through whatever other means/ method, but if the buyer(regardless of jersey color) decides to screw up and gets ejected, you loose your ticket rights. I guess you can alway do what I've done more than I wanted to do, which is, to eat the damn things (they don't taste good).

There have been times in the past when I've had Bronco fans tell me "yeah, I'll take them, and then come up with some lame ass excuse a few days before the game" (in fact it's happened a few times on this board).



So for those of you who want to BITCH and MOAN, contact the woman (Lois Tochtrop, State Rep) who helped push the legislation which allows PROFITEERING through the house. I talked to her prior to the vote, but I'm sure I didn't have the "pull" the lobbyists/ticket brokers had.

The bottom line is: in this tough economy, it's not as easy to make a choice as to the "color" of the buyer, unless you're willing to risk losing your tickets.

TailgateNut
11-12-2009, 12:32 PM
i find it ironic you of all people can criticize others for not supporting the team.

No SHIATE!

lex
11-12-2009, 12:33 PM
WTF are you talking about? I'm not dodging anything. If I was a Bengals fan and wanted to go to the game at Heinz on Sunday, I could. So could 19,999 others if they wanted.

Demand will ALWAYS create supply.

GTFO with your bull**** economics lesson.

jhns
11-12-2009, 12:35 PM
WTF are you talking about? I'm not dodging anything. If I was a Bengals fan and wanted to go to the game at Heinz on Sunday, I could. So could 19,999 others if they wanted.

Demand will ALWAYS create supply.

No it won't. Not if the home fans are good ones. You couldn't get 20000 tickets to any Steelers game, period. There isn't the supply because there are limited seats and you won't find 20000 of their fans willing to give up their seats to the away teams fans. You know why? They are better fans than us. Probably something like a 9 or 10 on Jays-fan-o-meter.

gtown
11-12-2009, 12:36 PM
Supply and demand rules out. I have been to many football games, but this coming Sunday I am sitting really close behind the Broncos bench at FedEx field. Bought the tix off of craigslist and I asked the seller how come they were so cheap? His reply: Supply and demand. Nobody else emailed him with a reasonable offer. He didn't give a **** that I was a Bronco fan, he just wanted to get as much for the tix as he could.

ak1971
11-12-2009, 12:38 PM
No it won't. Not if the home fans are good ones. You couldn't get 20000 tickets to any Steelers game, period. There isn't the supply because there are limited seats and you won't find 20000 of their fans willing to give up their seats to the away teams fans. You know why? They are better fans than us. Probably something like a 9 or 10 on Jays-fan-o-meter.

bull****...if I wanted 20K tickets and I wanted to pay the price for them I could get them

Beantown Bronco
11-12-2009, 12:39 PM
No it won't. Not if the home fans are good ones. You couldn't get 20000 tickets to any Steelers game, period. There isn't the supply because there are limited seats and you won't find 20000 of their fans willing to give up their seats to the away teams fans. You know why? They are better fans than us. Probably something like a 9 or 10 on Jays-fan-o-meter.

If I waved $10K in front of their faces, I guarantee I could get more than 20K of those guys to give up their pair of tix for one week. Everyone has a price.

lex
11-12-2009, 12:41 PM
No it won't. Not if the home fans are good ones. You couldn't get 20000 tickets to any Steelers game, period. There isn't the supply because there are limited seats and you won't find 20000 of their fans willing to give up their seats to the away teams fans. You know why? They are better fans than us. Probably something like a 9 or 10 on Jays-fan-o-meter.
Exactly, Hat must be from Western North Carolina or something with his hack economonics that ignores other moving pieces. Finite supply puts upward pressure on price. Upward price swings means diminished demand.

The more finite the supply is, the more unaffordable the price is. Conversely, when you have 20,000 Brunos out there, you get what you see on Monday night. Pathetic.

jhns
11-12-2009, 12:41 PM
If I waved $10K in front of their faces, I guarantee I could get more than 20K of those guys to give up their pair of tix for one week. Everyone has a price.

So you really think that is what happened the past few seasons here? All those fans bought out our fans with offers they couldn't refuse? Yeah right....

jhns
11-12-2009, 12:44 PM
bull****...if I wanted 20K tickets and I wanted to pay the price for them I could get them

No you couldn't. Try proving it. Name a time those teams have let it happen. None of you can but you all just keep going back to "well its possible!"..... Yeah, anythings possible. a unicorn will also make you breakfast tomorrow. Be sure to place your order.

HAT
11-12-2009, 12:45 PM
No it won't. Not if the home fans are good ones. You couldn't get 20000 tickets to any Steelers game, period. There isn't the supply because there are limited seats and you won't find 20000 of their fans willing to give up their seats to the away teams fans. You know why? They are better fans than us. Probably something like a 9 or 10 on Jays-fan-o-meter.

I wouldn't personally. But if 20,000 Bengals fans scoured ebay, CL, Stub hub, etc....

AND started calling every Pittsburgh area ticket broker (who in turn call thier STH clients)....

AND showed up in the parking lot with fistfulls of hundred dollar bills

There's not a doubt in my mind that 90% get in the building.

See post #11
Everyone has a price.

ak1971
11-12-2009, 12:46 PM
No you couldn't. Try proving it. Name a time those teams have let it happen. None of you can but you all just keep going back to "well its possible!"..... Yeah, anythings possible. a unicorn will also make you breakfast tomorrow. Be sure to place your order.

Give me the cash and I will get you your 20K tickets.

HAT
11-12-2009, 12:50 PM
Exactly, Hat must be from Western North Carolina or something with his hack economonics that ignores other moving pieces. Finite supply puts upward pressure on price. Upward price swings means diminished demand.

The more finite the supply is, the more unaffordable the price is. Conversely, when you have 20,000 Brunos out there, you get what you see on Monday night. Pathetic.

Of course....But we were not talking about affordability.

Beantown Bronco
11-12-2009, 12:50 PM
So you really think that is what happened the past few seasons here? All those fans bought out our fans with offers they couldn't refuse? Yeah right....

Where did I say that?

I am responding to one very specific statement you made:

You couldn't get 20000 tickets to any Steelers game, period. There isn't the supply because there are limited seats and you won't find 20000 of their fans willing to give up their seats to the away teams fans.

It's simple. If you offer someone enough money for their tickets, they will sell (unless, of course, they are already a millionnaire). Nobody is a "good enough fan" to turn down tens of thousands of dollars for a three hour game, especially if they have a family to support. Sorry.

TailgateNut
11-12-2009, 12:51 PM
http://www.google.com/search?q=Broncos%2C+Chargers&btnGNS=Search+craigslist.org&oi=navquery_searchbox&sa=X&as_sitesearch=craigslist.org&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGLR_en

http://www.stubhub.com/denver-broncos-tickets/broncos-vs-chargers-invesco-field-at-mile-high-788372/

https://teamexchange.ticketmaster.com/html/postinglist.htmI?l=EN&team=broncos&EVNT=GAME07&CNTX=

http://tickets.shop.ebay.com/Tickets-/1305/i.html?_nkw=Broncos%2CChargers&_armrs=1&_from=R4&_ipg=


Here Ya go jhns. SHOW YOUR SUPPORT!!!!! ....or STFU!!!

jhns
11-12-2009, 12:51 PM
I wouldn't personally. But if 20,000 Bengals fans scoured ebay, CL, Stub hub, etc....

AND started calling every Pittsburgh area ticket broker (who in turn call thier STH clients)....

AND showed up in the parking lot with fistfulls of hundred dollar bills

There's not a doubt in my mind that 90% get in the building.

See post #11

Bottom line, it doesn't happen to the Steelers, Bears, or Packers. Many teams do not allow that many opposing fans in. If you can't name a time, how can you say that isn't true. Denver has been letting a ton of opposing fans in for years. They didn't all bid their way in, they got tickets from people that didn't care. Period.

Having tickets is about supporting your team, not making money. Again, if you can't afford them, give them up. Many are on the waiting list and will actually support the team.

HAT
11-12-2009, 01:01 PM
Having tickets is about supporting your team, not making money. Again, if you can't afford them, give them up. Many are on the waiting list and will actually support the team.

I've never disagreed with this notion. Nor with TGN's that you should always look to friends and family first...Or whatever ticket exchange the team endorses.

My initial entry into this thread had to do with RMT's ridiculous contention that a returning STH to his seat should get the 'wrath' of other STH's if a Steeler jersey was in his seat last week. Or that STH's should start reporting 'fan misconduct' using different criteria depending on the jersey color. You don't know what situation led to an away fan being in my seat so STFU was my main point.

Ticket brokers are scum....until I need tickets! :thumbs:

jhns
11-12-2009, 01:04 PM
I've never disagreed with this notion. Nor with TGN's that you should always look to friends and family first...Or whatever ticket exchange the team endorses.

My initial entry into this thread had to do with RMT's ridiculous contention that a returning STH to his seat should get the 'wrath' of other STH's if a Steeler jersey was in his seat last week. Or that STH's should start reporting 'fan misconduct' using different criteria depending on the jersey color. You don't know what situation led to an away fan being in my seat so STFU was my main point.

Ticket brokers are scum....until I need tickets! :thumbs:

Well, I don't really have an argument for reporting people. I could care less about that. I'm pretty sure I read something on here yesterday that said they can't do anything about it anyways. They can just send a letter asking that ticket holder to try to get Bronco fans in their seats. Beyond that, they have no power without someone doing something to get in trouble at the game.

broncocalijohn
11-12-2009, 01:06 PM
here is stubhub for Greenbay game coming up next month.
http://www.stubhub.com/green-bay-packers-tickets/packers-vs-49ers-lambeau-field-788687/

Here is Denver
http://www.stubhub.com/denver-broncos-tickets/broncos-vs-raiders-invesco-field-at-mile-high-788371/

We sell twice as much. GB capacity of their stadium is 72k . I also noticed that for a shrine of Green Bay and they dont have as many tickets available on resale, the prices are pretty reasonable. Could this be due to weather and people want to travel to a game that has a fun nightlife and nothing is around GB compared to SD, SF, Denver, Chicago, etc?

jhns
11-12-2009, 01:07 PM
http://www.google.com/search?q=Broncos%2C+Chargers&btnGNS=Search+craigslist.org&oi=navquery_searchbox&sa=X&as_sitesearch=craigslist.org&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGLR_en

http://www.stubhub.com/denver-broncos-tickets/broncos-vs-chargers-invesco-field-at-mile-high-788372/

https://teamexchange.ticketmaster.com/html/postinglist.htmI?l=EN&team=broncos&EVNT=GAME07&CNTX=

http://tickets.shop.ebay.com/Tickets-/1305/i.html?_nkw=Broncos%2CChargers&_armrs=1&_from=R4&_ipg=


Here Ya go jhns. SHOW YOUR SUPPORT!!!!! ....or STFU!!!

I already have my tickets for the games I can make this year. I get those well before mid-season. I am also waiting for season tickets, which is exactly why I get irritated seeing the season ticket holders give away their tickets to people supporting away teams. If you don't want to support the team or you can't afford it anymore, give them up so I can have them.

cmhargrove
11-12-2009, 01:10 PM
So who has the "best" home team fan base in the NFL in this regard in your opinion?

My worst experience as a visiting fan - 2 years ago at the Colts game (at the old RCA Dome).

I looked around and there were about five broncos jerseys visible in each section. I had two drunk guys try to start fights with me - before half time...
That didn't really bother me because I understand "visitor etiquette."

Anyway - Indy is a strong home crowd.

Ambiguous
11-12-2009, 01:12 PM
Bottom line, it doesn't happen to the Steelers, Bears, or Packers. Many teams do not allow that many opposing fans in. If you can't name a time, how can you say that isn't true. Denver has been letting a ton of opposing fans in for years. They didn't all bid their way in, they got tickets from people that didn't care. Period.

Having tickets is about supporting your team, not making money. Again, if you can't afford them, give them up. Many are on the waiting list and will actually support the team.

Maybe for you, but there is a large group of people that have season tickets to make money, nothing else. If you think they are going to stop turning a profit for almost no effort because of your beloved home field advantage, you're dreaming. I don't like it, but the Broncos have already tried to stop it and can't. Nothing is going to change, sorry.

jhns
11-12-2009, 01:15 PM
Maybe for you, but there is a large group of people that have season tickets to make money, nothing else. If you think they are going to stop turning a profit for almost no effort because of your beloved home field advantage, you're dreaming. I don't like it, but the Broncos have already tried to stop it and can't. Nothing is going to change, sorry.

So that makes it alright? I'm not sure I follow....

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-12-2009, 01:18 PM
Many of the Steeler fans I talked to flew in for the game, which means they made travel arrangements, which means they purchased those tickets relatively early.

With all the "sky is falling" posts on boards such as this one, is it any wonder some folks chose to sell their tickets to someone else rather than deal with not being able to sell to a Bronco fan at the last minute?

I didn't sell my tickets, and I'm mindful of who I sell them to. But what's right for me ain't right for everyone. YOu don't know someone else's situation, and neither does Woodhead. He should STFU, or stop writing season previews about how the Broncos are doomed to be awful.

Yes, he has a hand in this as well.

Ambiguous
11-12-2009, 01:21 PM
So that makes it alright? I'm not sure I follow....

It doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just not going to change. It's already been pursued by the Broncos organization and failed.

Just saying your pleading efforts (to a Broncos board no less, people who probably wouldn't sell anyway) are not going to change a thing.

jhns
11-12-2009, 01:24 PM
It doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just not going to change. It's already been pursued by the Broncos organization and failed.

Just saying your pleading efforts (to a Broncos board no less, people who probably wouldn't sell anyway) are not going to change a thing.

Nothing talked about on this message board will ever change anything. That hasn't stopped anyone from arguing about dumb things yet. It won't stop me now.

Ambiguous
11-12-2009, 01:25 PM
Nothing talked about on this message board will ever change anything. That hasn't stopped anyone from arguing about dumb things yet. It won't stop me now.

Well good luck with that.

jhns
11-12-2009, 01:28 PM
Well good luck with that.

Thanks! I don't need it though. Woody has my back.

bowtown
11-12-2009, 01:39 PM
Woody has my back.

You might not want to go around shouting that... for a lot of reasons.

enjolras
11-12-2009, 01:55 PM
I went to a Steelers-Indianapolis game earlier this decade. At least 15% of the stadium was wearing blue.

19Morton77
11-12-2009, 02:22 PM
Many season ticket holders live outside of Colorado. I heard that every state has at least one season ticket holder. Therefore, many cant go to every game and they sell their tickets. If the season ticket base was more in the metro Denver area, then there would be more STH going to the game. BTW, I watched the game on tv and didnt see 20% at all. You also need to remember that when the Steelers made a great play, the cameras go straight to the section where there are a ton of Steeler fans. You dont get the whole picture.

lex
11-12-2009, 04:27 PM
Of course....But we were not talking about affordability.

Indeed you are. Youre talking about price and price is also affected by what happens on the side of supply. Youre whole economic diatribe was ignorant to this. Dont start trying to acknowledge it but then dismiss it as insignificant or inconsequential. Just know that price is affected by supply factors as well as demand factors. But again, youre taling about 20,000 tickets here. So its hard to sell the idea that THAT many Steeler fans had tickets without season ticket holders wanting to sell their tickets even without it being an offer they couldnt refuse.

Theres a sense of proportionality in play, which means that if youre from Pittsburgh and you are willing and able to pay for a plane ticket and a hotel, relatively speaking a ticket to the game may not seem like so much...but with that many tickets available, its hardly a case of 20,000 people drastically overpaying. If you have 20,000 people willing to sell, that puts downward pressure on the price.

lex
11-12-2009, 04:29 PM
Many season ticket holders live outside of Colorado. I heard that every state has at least one season ticket holder. Therefore, many cant go to every game and they sell their tickets. If the season ticket base was more in the metro Denver area, then there would be more STH going to the game. BTW, I watched the game on tv and didnt see 20% at all. You also need to remember that when the Steelers made a great play, the cameras go straight to the section where there are a ton of Steeler fans. You dont get the whole picture.

I agree with this. When the camera took a wide view, it didnt look like 20,000 to me either. But if Woody was there and is saying this, it was obviously a lot.

lex
11-12-2009, 04:32 PM
Many of the Steeler fans I talked to flew in for the game, which means they made travel arrangements, which means they purchased those tickets relatively early.

With all the "sky is falling" posts on boards such as this one, is it any wonder some folks chose to sell their tickets to someone else rather than deal with not being able to sell to a Bronco fan at the last minute?

I didn't sell my tickets, and I'm mindful of who I sell them to. But what's right for me ain't right for everyone. YOu don't know someone else's situation, and neither does Woodhead. He should STFU, or stop writing season previews about how the Broncos are doomed to be awful.

Yes, he has a hand in this as well.

A ticket is a right to watch the game, not the right to profiteer. The criticism is perfectly fair and appropriate. Again, this speaks to a culture of everyone wants to do whatever they want and not get called out for it. Guys like you are part of this everyone gets a trophy culture.

lex
11-12-2009, 04:34 PM
Maybe for you, but there is a large group of people that have season tickets to make money, nothing else. If you think they are going to stop turning a profit for almost no effort because of your beloved home field advantage, you're dreaming. I don't like it, but the Broncos have already tried to stop it and can't. Nothing is going to change, sorry.

It has to be legislated. Apparently Colorado isnt sophisticated enough to realize that measures can be taken to prevent this type of profiteering.

HAT
11-12-2009, 04:57 PM
It has to be legislated. Apparently Colorado isnt sophisticated enough to realize that measures can be taken to prevent this type of profiteering.


Yay...More Government! :contract::USA:

Here's hoping you guys can get your state legislature to pass a law requiring The Denver Broncos to only admit fans wearing Bronco jerseys or otherwise neutral colors. :rofl:

HAT
11-12-2009, 05:06 PM
A ticket is a right to watch the game,

It sure is. And it is also a transferable right.

Don't get me wrong....the guy in the article is a dick. If you are going to sell the ENTIRE season, you may as well give them up. But to rip on people who sell a game here or there is just plain dumb.

If my $100 dollar seat costs me $1,000 for the season (Incl. NFLX)...and I can sell the Dallas game for $250 and the Pitt game for $250....You can bet your ass that I'm doing that deal and still going to 80% of my games for effectively, half price.

mr007
11-12-2009, 05:24 PM
We sell twice as much. GB capacity of their stadium is 72k . I also noticed that for a shrine of Green Bay and they dont have as many tickets available on resale, the prices are pretty reasonable. Could this be due to weather and people want to travel to a game that has a fun nightlife and nothing is around GB compared to SD, SF, Denver, Chicago, etc?

This is the exact reason for ticket sales to opposing teams' fans. I live in San Diego because I LOVE THE EFFIN' weather. People who grew up as fans of whatever team and choose to move away to live in a better climate/etc will continue to get tickets when their home team comes to that town. The stadium here has plenty of fans from opposing teams each game (there were tons of Bronco fans).

With that said, WTF moves to Green Bay or half of these other locations? Denver is a great city to come to because it has a fun night life and the mountains are right next door for boarding or skiing or whatever.

While Pittsburg has a huge fan base, at least they're not taking over the stadium and the majority are still Denver fans.... some of these other cities don't even have that luxury.

HAT
11-12-2009, 05:30 PM
Good point on the ski vacation/package deal aspect going on in Denver.

lex
11-12-2009, 07:56 PM
Yay...More Government! :contract::USA:

Here's hoping you guys can get your state legislature to pass a law requiring The Denver Broncos to only admit fans wearing Bronco jerseys or otherwise neutral colors. :rofl:

Yeah, goverment...how do you think that stadium was built? And you kind of miss the point with your last remark. Those people are abusing their right to watch a game. There are people who are on the waiting list that wont abuse the right to watch a game, which is slightly different from your remark.

BTW, I dont live in Colorado anymore so its not really "my legislators". Apparently their legislators service the whiney bitches like Bruno.

ak1971
11-12-2009, 08:31 PM
Yeah, goverment...how do you think that stadium was built? And you kind of miss the point with your last remark. Those people are abusing their right to watch a game. There are people who are on the waiting list that wont abuse the right to watch a game, which is slightly different from your remark.

BTW, I dont live in Colorado anymore so its not really "my legislators". Apparently their legislators service the whiney b****es like Bruno.

maybe they can ban diarrhea of the mouth douche bags like yourself. Go blow Cutler already

Ambiguous
11-12-2009, 09:07 PM
This is the exact reason for ticket sales to opposing teams' fans. I live in San Diego because I LOVE THE EFFIN' weather. People who grew up as fans of whatever team and choose to move away to live in a better climate/etc will continue to get tickets when their home team comes to that town. The stadium here has plenty of fans from opposing teams each game (there were tons of Bronco fans).

With that said, WTF moves to Green Bay or half of these other locations? Denver is a great city to come to because it has a fun night life and the mountains are right next door for boarding or skiing or whatever.

While Pittsburg has a huge fan base, at least they're not taking over the stadium and the majority are still Denver fans.... some of these other cities don't even have that luxury.

This. Nobody really moves to Wisconsin or Pittsburgh unless there are some really good reasons for it, or they just grew up there and never left.

lex
11-12-2009, 09:10 PM
This. Nobody really moves to Wisconsin or Pittsburgh unless there are some really good reasons for it, or they just grew up there and never left.

There are good reasons to move to Wisconsin. I wont go into them but it wouldnt be awful to move there...at least a certain place or certain places.