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Hulamau
11-10-2009, 12:03 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ross_tucker/11/09/steelers.broncos.5things/index.html


Champion Steelers hard to knock off when firing on all cylinders

Not only does Big Ben have control of the offense, he's Pittsburgh's main weapon
The Broncos should be encouraged about hanging tough with the Steelers


Things we learned from the Steelers' 28-10 win over the Broncos Monday night in Denver ..

1. It's the same old Steelers defense in Pittsburgh. Rumors of the demise of last year's top-ranked defense over the first four weeks of this season were patently premature. For the second game in a row, the Steelers gave up a decent amount of yards -- but no points -- as they went back to their bend-but-don't-break mentality. Even when the Broncos were able to move the football, the Steelers always seemed to be able to make the critical play when they had to, including a pair or sacks by unheralded defensive end Brett Keisel.

And for the second game in a row as well, the Steelers were able to score points defensively. As one might have guessed, the safeties were the playmakers on the back end for Pittsburgh. What was surprising is that out of all of the safeties, it would be Tyrone Carter, filling in for Ryan Clark who was held out because of a rare sickle-cell trait, that would be the one to score the touchdown. Troy Polamalu didn't want to miss out on the fun, however, and his fourth-quarter interception led to a Ben Roethlisberger-to-Mike Wallace touchdown pass which cemented the victory.

2. The Denver Broncos are here to stay. There was a lot of debate and dialogue this past week about how the Broncos would react to getting humbled by the Ravens, after their surprising 6-0 start. Would they lose their swagger and confidence after the defeat, like the Jets and Giants both have done ever since the Saints handled them earlier in the season? Or was the Ravens loss just a temporary setback on the way to a postseason berth?

The Broncos answered that question right from the get-go by firing on all cylinders and dominating the first half statistically, if not on the scoreboard; and that was the problem. The Broncos controlled the action, yet had relatively little to show for it. Kyle Orton was able to spread the football around throughout the game, and especially early, to both Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal. His interceptions were costly, however, leading to 14 Steelers points. The Broncos may have lost the game, but they went toe-to-toe with the defending Super Bowl champs for 53 minutes before caving in the final minutes. The Broncos will be a factor for the rest of this season and likely in the playoffs, as well.

3. Big Ben is in total control of the Pittsburgh offense. His numbers were solid (21-29, 233 yds, 3 TDs, 1 INT), if not eye-popping, but Roethlisberger had great command of Bruce Arians' offense, especially when running the no-huddle offense. This is no longer the young Roethlisberger who simply won games because he happened to be playing under center for a team with a dominant defense and solid running game. Big Ben is now the clear leader and primary weapon offensively for the Steelers. Yes, he still holds onto the football and takes sacks at times, but he makes up for that by extending plays long enough to make a big throw -- like his touchdown pass to Wallace.

tsiguy96
11-10-2009, 12:08 AM
people who say this team is a pretender are fools obviously, but we are starting to see the problems the team has magnified a few times, and none of them are really on defense (though they arent domination 2nd half anymore clearly, if they could get some help from the offense in any way they would be fine)

watermock
11-10-2009, 12:19 AM
Article give not enough credit to the D and ignores the 27 yards rushing w/3 picks.

watermock
11-10-2009, 12:21 AM
people who say this team is a pretender are fools obviously, but we are starting to see the problems the team has magnified a few times, and none of them are really on defense (though they arent domination 2nd half anymore clearly, if they could get some help from the offense in any way they would be fine)

Isn't the real question:

"How couild McD screw up such a good offense, especially with 3 good RB's for 09?

bpc
11-10-2009, 12:27 AM
Problems with this team:

1. QB - Orton will never out-duel any QB with pedigree in the playoffs. He's a deer in the headlights.

2. Offensive identity - What are we? When things go bad, what can we rely on? QB? Pass game? Run Game? OL? McD needs to start developing this vs. running 200 formations a game.

3. HB - We need a difference maker. Buckhalter is blue collar, but relatively low talent level and upside. Knowshon Moreno looks about two steps slow and does not run with power. We need to improve greatly in this area, especially considering we may have to go on the road for some playoff games.

4. Our defense vs. No Huddle Offense: Two weeks in a row teams have wore our team down with this type of offense. You can bet your ass any contender we see will employ this strategy against us. SD, NE, Indy, Pitt, Cincy, Houston... any team we see in the playoffs will try this heavily against us. It's been the only true crack this defense has shown outside of Kyle Orton QB'ing the offense.

Popps
11-10-2009, 12:44 AM
Isn't the real question:

"How couild McD screw up such a good offense, especially with 3 good RB's for 09?

I know, right?

It sucks being 6-2.

I wish we were .500 and giving up 40 pts per game like the last quarter of last season.


Glad to see you actively posting again though, Mock. I figured a couple of losses would bring the trolls out in force... and here you are.

Doggcow
11-10-2009, 12:45 AM
Problems with this team:

1. QB - Orton will never out-duel any QB with pedigree in the playoffs. He's a deer in the headlights.

2. Offensive identity - What are we? When things go bad, what can we rely on? QB? Pass game? Run Game? OL? McD needs to start developing this vs. running 200 formations a game.

3. HB - We need a difference maker. Buckhalter is blue collar, but relatively low talent level and upside. Knowshon Moreno looks about two steps slow and does not run with power. We need to improve greatly in this area, especially considering we may have to go on the road for some playoff games.

4. Our defense vs. No Huddle Offense: Two weeks in a row teams have wore our team down with this type of offense. You can bet your ass any contender we see will employ this strategy against us. SD, NE, Indy, Pitt, Cincy, Houston... any team we see in the playoffs will try this heavily against us. It's been the only true crack this defense has shown outside of Kyle Orton QB'ing the offense.

1) our oline got manhandled... again. Not Ortons fault.

2) We are a short-intermediate passing offense, thats obvious.

3) See 1

4) SD isn't a contender, and we BEAT them with 2 others as well.

watermock
11-10-2009, 12:50 AM
Moreno still looks like Sammy Winder.

OL is getting conflicking messages, worst we have looked in a long time.

Law out there with a script playing slot. WTF?

Neckbeard is a backup.

Popps
11-10-2009, 12:50 AM
You can bet your ass any contender we see will employ this strategy against us. .

Again, it's one thing for Baltimore or Pittsburgh to "employ" a game-plan against us. It's another for a team like Cinci or San Diego (two teams we beat) to try.

Pittsburgh/Baltimore are elite defenses.

Remember last season during the playoffs when I spent countless posts trying to educate people around here as to why 3 of the top 4 defenses in the league were still left when there were 4 teams standing?

We lost two games to two brutal defenses. Yes, Baltimore had a let-down this week, but they'll be around come playoff time. Obviously, so will the Steelers.


You can't just "employ" a dominant defense. Just like you can't "mix it up" to keep a defense like Pittsburgh "off-guard." (All this sound familiar?)


We're not as good as Pittsburgh. That's the bottom line. They have spent YEARS building the kind of infrastructure that we're just now trying to build. We spent years trying to use smoke and mirrors as a game-plan instead of building a true foundation for winning.

This notion that teams can just flip a switch and beat Pittsburgh are absurd, just as it's absurd to assume that any team can flip a switch and beat us.

We're a solid team on the rise. We're probably better (or as good) as San Diego, and not as good as Baltimore or Pittsburgh. It's not about game-planning. We're just not there yet.

Popps
11-10-2009, 12:51 AM
Moreno still looks like Sammy Winder.

OL is getting conflicking messages, worst we have looked in a long time.

Law out there with a script playing slot. WTF?

Neckbeard is a backup.

Eat it up, Mock.

We'll win next week. You can go back into hiding until our next loss.

watermock
11-10-2009, 12:55 AM
I know, right?

It sucks being 6-2.

I wish we were .500 and giving up 40 pts per game like the last quarter of last season.


Glad to see you actively posting again though, Mock. I figured a couple of losses would bring the trolls out in force... and here you are.

I never stopped posting. I was just waiting for the circle jerk to end.

No your not. If Neckbeard pulled another 1 out of his ass you would be rubbing it in my and everyone else that has questioned Beavis nose it it.

Your more than just disengenuous and spitefull. Your also a liar. You have nothing to aplogize foer, 6 wins was all you expected anyway, right?

watermock
11-10-2009, 12:59 AM
Eat it up, Mock.

We'll win next week. You can go back into hiding until our next loss.

I expect we will win. Wow! What big balls!

And that will probably be a credit to the defense. Not your nose up Orton's ass.

Popps
11-10-2009, 01:01 AM
I expect we will win. Wow! What big balls!

And that will probably be a credit to the defense. Not your nose up Orton's ass.

Orton?

You'd better do some research.

I've never hitched my wagon to Orton. I like him. I've said all along that I don't know if he's the long-term answer.

But, I like our direction.

I know it's killing you that we're winning. Shouldn't you be happy? Your Vikings are winning. Why would you care about the Broncos, at this point? You just trying to compete with Boob for Best Troll honors?

Popps
11-10-2009, 01:04 AM
You have nothing to aplogize foer, 6 wins was all you expected anyway, right?

Correct.

I have nothing to apologize for.

If this team was 2-6 right now, I'd still love them, unlike you... who turned on the team and turned into one of the most boring trolls this site has ever seen.

bpc
11-10-2009, 01:04 AM
1) our oline got manhandled... again. Not Ortons fault.

2) We are a short-intermediate passing offense, thats obvious.

3) See 1

4) SD isn't a contender, and we BEAT them with 2 others as well.

1 is BS. Harris was injured. Hamilton got beat like a drum. Still, as a QB sometimes you have to be that 6th blocker and make somebody miss, step up and make a big throw. Orton failed to do that. Injuries happen. Step up and make a play. Orton FAILED in this category time and again.

2. We're an average short passing offense which defenses are catching on to and clamping down on. The same troubles this team had under Plummer are going to apply here. Put us down by 2 possessions, make Orton win the game and we'll lose. Hardly a plan to base this team off of.

3. I'm not gonna say the OL was tearing holes open but the two backs we have carrying the ball aren't that great. Knowshon is still young so there's hope there but he's been vastly disappointing thus far. Buckhalter is a career backup who's blown numerous ACL's. Is there any surprise why there is no push when he gets to the LOS?

4. Funny thing as the season goes on, trends appear. This no huddle attack we're facing and yielding to over the past two weeks is going to stay on us for the rest of the season. Teams we beat are going to pour over film and incorporate that stuff into their offense. You think Cincy will be playing their hand so close to the vest the next time around? They're gonna be gunning it on us.

Hulamau
11-10-2009, 01:20 AM
Again, it's one thing for Baltimore or Pittsburgh to "employ" a game-plan against us. It's another for a team like Cinci or San Diego (two teams we beat) to try.

Pittsburgh/Baltimore are elite defenses.

Remember last season during the playoffs when I spent countless posts trying to educate people around here as to why 3 of the top 4 defenses in the league were still left when there were 4 teams standing?

We lost two games to two brutal defenses. Yes, Baltimore had a let-down this week, but they'll be around come playoff time. Obviously, so will the Steelers.


You can't just "employ" a dominant defense. Just like you can't "mix it up" to keep a defense like Pittsburgh "off-guard." (All this sound familiar?)


We're not as good as Pittsburgh. That's the bottom line. They have spent YEARS building the kind of infrastructure that we're just now trying to build. We spent years trying to use smoke and mirrors as a game-plan instead of building a true foundation for winning.

This notion that teams can just flip a switch and beat Pittsburgh are absurd, just as it's absurd to assume that any team can flip a switch and beat us.

We're a solid team on the rise. We're probably better (or as good) as San Diego, and not as good as Baltimore or Pittsburgh. It's not about game-planning. We're just not there yet.


Sometimes you have to spell out the obvious for these Nervous Neliies always chewing their fingernail off.

Yes Washington and the other seven left on the list now has the blueprint for beating us. Tell me who else on t his schedule is likely to duplicate the desperation hair on fire defense of the always strong against us Ravens and that of the well rested bye week Super blow Champs who are starting to hit their stride??

We are a NEW team folks ... it takes time to build a well-oiled machine. Josh is learning too what he can and cant get out of these players and what he needs to bring in in the offseason.

Look for progress in the second half and a 11-5 record is very doable 10-6 at the worst. A huge success with all the changes in any event.

There was ALWAYS going to be some struggling this year, but we have far exceeded any ones expectations so far and likely will the rest of the way ...

watermock
11-10-2009, 01:35 AM
Correct.

I have nothing to apologize for.

If this team was 2-6 right now, I'd still love them, unlike you... who turned on the team and turned into one of the most boring trolls this site has ever seen.

Your the troll caught in his own trap.
Your the one spineless. You would be happy at 2-6?

Or just happy to question my "fandom" huh...look you shortsighted ferret, our "Offensive Genius" has weakened the offense.

Now McD probably contributed to the choices on D, but the O has regressed.

No miracle catches from Gaffney or Marshall lately.

Honestly, I'm glad, because noow that the nitrous has evaporated, maybe the team can start fixing what it hasn't destroyed.

watermock
11-10-2009, 01:41 AM
We are a NEW team folks ... it takes time to build a well-oiled machine. Josh is learning too what he can and cant get out of these players and what he needs to bring in in the offseason.


Actuially, we WERE a new team. Now we are a good team that is still marginally old, especially on defense.

We have 10 new players on D 30.

That's not that bad, for a contending team.

We are not.

Cleo McDowell
11-10-2009, 01:57 AM
Originally Posted by Popps

Glad to see you actively posting again though, Mock. I figured a couple of losses would bring the trolls out in force... and here you are.

[QUOTE=watermock;2636278]I never stopped posting. I was just waiting for the circle jerk to end.
QUOTE]




did mock just disagree with popps by agreeing with him?
:thought:



the only way the "circle jerk" would end is in a bronco loss.

broncos win, mock stays stfu. broncos lose, posting bonanza!

you senile old bastard.

(pardon me for the messy quotes)

watermock
11-10-2009, 02:20 AM
the only way the "circle jerk" would end is in a bronco loss.


Or 2 in a row, but no...because Popps was so brave to guarantee 4 wins!

dsmoot
11-10-2009, 04:09 AM
Again, it's one thing for Baltimore or Pittsburgh to "employ" a game-plan against us. It's another for a team like Cinci or San Diego (two teams we beat) to try.

Pittsburgh/Baltimore are elite defenses.

Remember last season during the playoffs when I spent countless posts trying to educate people around here as to why 3 of the top 4 defenses in the league were still left when there were 4 teams standing?

We lost two games to two brutal defenses. Yes, Baltimore had a let-down this week, but they'll be around come playoff time. Obviously, so will the Steelers.


You can't just "employ" a dominant defense. Just like you can't "mix it up" to keep a defense like Pittsburgh "off-guard." (All this sound familiar?)


We're not as good as Pittsburgh. That's the bottom line. They have spent YEARS building the kind of infrastructure that we're just now trying to build. We spent years trying to use smoke and mirrors as a game-plan instead of building a true foundation for winning.

This notion that teams can just flip a switch and beat Pittsburgh are absurd, just as it's absurd to assume that any team can flip a switch and beat us.

We're a solid team on the rise. We're probably better (or as good) as San Diego, and not as good as Baltimore or Pittsburgh. It's not about game-planning. We're just not there yet.

Your comments are well thought out and give a realistic assessment of the current Broncos. Everyone should have known we were going to face two teams that are very physical and very good on defense. There is no other way to really know what you have than to play elite teams.

We have been exposed in some areas but there is no doubt certain positions must be upgraded to really be a SB competitive team. Josh McDaniels will address them as he is able.

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 07:07 AM
I thought these last two games were very instructive. They showed McD where the weaknesses are and where the Broncos need to be to get to a championship. I'm positive the lesson is not lost on him. We need to be able to "impose" the run when we want to. We can't do that now against this caliber of team. Both lines need some beef and some power. The Broncos played two, similar Dlines in the Ravens and Steelers. They got dominated by both. The good news is that the defense is close. One or two pieces (Cody, etc.) and they could be dominant. Clady is a dominating LT, but he needs somebody on his shoulder who is as good as he is. Same with the center. This offense just doesn't have the power to impose its will on the opponent. That's where they have to go.

bronco militia
11-10-2009, 07:16 AM
The Broncos should be encouraged about hanging tough with the Steelers


LOL

http://shanoogie.com/l/thread-pics/officerBarbrady.gif

McDman
11-10-2009, 07:22 AM
Or 2 in a row, but no...because Popps was so brave to guarantee 4 wins!

I'd say lurking around and waiting to post after two losses is pretty much the definition of a troll...

McDman
11-10-2009, 07:26 AM
No one here is foolish enough to believe that Orton can carry this team, both the offensive line and the running backs failed him in last nights game. He did make some bad throws and he panics under pressure, but he had no help from his teammates.

Our running game was pathetic, if this keeps up we won't win our division. There are only a couple things that really bother me about McD and not running I formations is one of them. The other is is refusal to use Hillis. I know he wasn't at the game last night, but it's been the same as any other game. Hillis has made mistakes, but he's a good fullback who provides a dangerous outlet from the back field..

We could even use him on third downs as a blocking back, Moreno missed a huge block last night.

Smiling Assassin27
11-10-2009, 07:50 AM
Look, this is a team in transition. It's a team that has maybe 65% of its positions filled with players taht will be here in 2-3 years when the tranformation is done. It's a team that has been gutted in many respects and a team that had umpteen holes to fill in the offseason. It's clear that many holes are yet to be filled, but we have a defense that is beyond respectable. We have a WR corps that has the talent and brain to learn this system and excel in it. We have a RB Corps that is capable of moving the chains when properly given holes to run through. Most importantly, we have 6 wins in 8 games even after all the monumental changes that took place. We're on our way up. Now, 'bout them holes:

1. Special Teams is marginal. Punter is plain awful. PK is solid. Coverage teams are marginal--but not as bad as last year. Still, ST is a squad that could very well cost us a game or two this year.

2. OL--The middle of the line--imo, the most important part of the line--is small and unable to make up for size with quicks or brains. Simply, they are getting mauled by bigger NT/DT and DE's on a weekly basis. Wiegmann and Hamilton have no place in this offense anymore and should be thanked and then cut at season's end. And since we're on the topic of pass protection--our RB, who basically become an OL when in for pass protect, are lost. For a pocket passer, pressure up the middle is the worst. Jake Plummer can deal with it, Kyle Orton cannot. (Neither can Simms, for all you morons who were calling for him last night) OL must get bigger--look for some FA pickups. Jahri Evans from NO would be a good place to start at G, 6'4" 320. Mankins the nutpuncher is also available and we know how mcd loves ex-pats.

And now to QB...Orton is not the guy. He's just not. Can we win with him? We already have. But can we get to where we want to be with him? No. We saw the difference between Pitt. and Denver last night--the quarterback spot. One stood in and delivered under duress while Orton gave up 14 points. He's a good transitional guy for this franchise, nothing more. He's the guy who can move this team upward until a legitimate guy with all the tools can carry on. No, Cutler wasn't taht guy. He's got a 5 cent head and a pi$$ poor attitude.

All in all, I'm happy with the renovation project that is the Broncos. We've hit on some good FA's that have enabled us to make wholesale changes but still not start from the ground floor. We now know that this team is not an elite team but a very good team who is built to compete in every game and that will be a contender in the coming 3 years.

baja
11-10-2009, 07:52 AM
I love that Pat Bowlen went out and found Josh McD and I love what Josh has brought to Denver. He will field many a great team for us. It is amazing what he has done in just one season he really has the Midis touch. As for this season it's simple we can't hang with the big boys for 60 minutes. We are a good football team but not an elite team none the less we will be fun to watch and they will make us proud just don't expect much in the way of playoffs.

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 07:57 AM
I love that Pat Bowlen went out and found Josh McD and I love what Josh has brought to Denver. He will field many a great team for us. It is amazing what he has done in just one season he really has the Midis touch. As for this season it's simple we can't hang with the big boys for 60 minutes. We are a good football team but not an elite team none the less we will be fun to watch and they will make us proud just don't expect much in the way of playoffs.

It would be sweet to go in there and knock off the Colts, even if we didn't get much farther than that. ;D

Man-Goblin
11-10-2009, 08:02 AM
I never stopped posting. I was just waiting for the circle jerk to end.

No your not. If Neckbeard pulled another 1 out of his ass you would be rubbing it in my and everyone else that has questioned Beavis nose it it.

Your more than just disengenuous and spitefull. Your also a liar. You have nothing to aplogize foer, 6 wins was all you expected anyway, right?

Wait......the circle jerk is over?

watermock
11-10-2009, 08:04 AM
It's funny how quick this offense is discarded because we had trouble in the red zone.

If we had this defense last year....and a RB...

Mr.Meanie
11-10-2009, 08:07 AM
I liked it better when we were winning and Mock had all but disappeared.

Mr.Meanie
11-10-2009, 08:08 AM
Look, this is a team in transition. It's a team that has maybe 65% of its positions filled with players taht will be here in 2-3 years when the tranformation is done. It's a team that has been gutted in many respects and a team that had umpteen holes to fill in the offseason. It's clear that many holes are yet to be filled, but we have a defense that is beyond respectable. We have a WR corps that has the talent and brain to learn this system and excel in it. We have a RB Corps that is capable of moving the chains when properly given holes to run through. Most importantly, we have 6 wins in 8 games even after all the monumental changes that took place. We're on our way up. Now, 'bout them holes:

1. Special Teams is marginal. Punter is plain awful. PK is solid. Coverage teams are marginal--but not as bad as last year. Still, ST is a squad that could very well cost us a game or two this year.

2. OL--The middle of the line--imo, the most important part of the line--is small and unable to make up for size with quicks or brains. Simply, they are getting mauled by bigger NT/DT and DE's on a weekly basis. Wiegmann and Hamilton have no place in this offense anymore and should be thanked and then cut at season's end. And since we're on the topic of pass protection--our RB, who basically become an OL when in for pass protect, are lost. For a pocket passer, pressure up the middle is the worst. Jake Plummer can deal with it, Kyle Orton cannot. (Neither can Simms, for all you morons who were calling for him last night) OL must get bigger--look for some FA pickups. Jahri Evans from NO would be a good place to start at G, 6'4" 320. Mankins the nutpuncher is also available and we know how mcd loves ex-pats.

And now to QB...Orton is not the guy. He's just not. Can we win with him? We already have. But can we get to where we want to be with him? No. We saw the difference between Pitt. and Denver last night--the quarterback spot. One stood in and delivered under duress while Orton gave up 14 points. He's a good transitional guy for this franchise, nothing more. He's the guy who can move this team upward until a legitimate guy with all the tools can carry on. No, Cutler wasn't taht guy. He's got a 5 cent head and a pi$$ poor attitude.

All in all, I'm happy with the renovation project that is the Broncos. We've hit on some good FA's that have enabled us to make wholesale changes but still not start from the ground floor. We now know that this team is not an elite team but a very good team who is built to compete in every game and that will be a contender in the coming 3 years.


Well said. Rep

watermock
11-10-2009, 08:08 AM
I love that Pat Bowlen went out and found Josh McD and I love what Josh has brought to Denver. He will field many a great team for us. It is amazing what he has done in just one season he really has the Midis touch. As for this season it's simple we can't hang with the big boys for 60 minutes. We are a good football team but not an elite team none the less we will be fun to watch and they will make us proud just don't expect much in the way of playoffs.

Gotta hand it to Baja, he said 6-0, not 7-0, not 6-2...

baja
11-10-2009, 08:17 AM
It would be sweet to go in there and knock off the Colts, even if we didn't get much farther than that. ;D

Yes it would. We are like Steelers lite so we are built to beat teams like the Colts. It's teams like the Ravens and the Steelers that show us up.

baja
11-10-2009, 08:23 AM
Gotta hand it to Baja, he said 6-0, not 7-0, not 6-2...

I thought there was a really good chance that we would lose to the Ravens and I knew the Steelers would be a match up problem but I liked our chances at home. Take away the INTs and we might have won this game. I think we win the next two against Washington and the Chargers. So for you Mock I say;

8 and 2

baja
11-10-2009, 08:29 AM
Our biggest problem is the O line who would have thunk it...

Oh and what were they thinking signing Bugger the plunter.

Cito Pelon
11-10-2009, 10:17 AM
I guess the bottom line is are the issues correctible?

I don't know. All three units have had their moments, and losing to two of the stronger AFC teams is not a disaster.

When all is said and done I just want Denver to be one of the top six teams in the AFC. That means playoffs, the second season, where if you can find a way to kick ass you're golden.

kamakazi_kal
11-10-2009, 12:54 PM
I really don't think to highly of Orton in general but, really the Broncos are still 6 - 2 and still lead the division. The Chargers have made the race tighter. To that I still don't think they are better then Denver at this point.

If the Chargers overtake us after another 3 game lead ...... then I'll freak out.

I'll buy this take on Denver .... no problem. I was wrong about Mcd once, I'm trying not to repeat past mistakes. I had denver at 8 - 8. I still think we end up with a better record then that.

jhat01
11-10-2009, 01:52 PM
Moreno still looks like Sammy Winder.

OL is getting conflicking messages, worst we have looked in a long time.

Law out there with a script playing slot. WTF?

Neckbeard is a backup.

You're such a skank...Besides Law looking at his wrist, did you notice he played pretty well? He was not a problem last night and should not be included in your stupid list.

Orton is not a backup. He got his ass kicked out there last night, yes. Aside from a few people, most of us agree that he's not the long term answer. But he's played a pretty good half of a season. If you were told what his record and numbers would be at the halfway point before the season, would you be pleased? Wait you're not even a fan of this team, so nevermind.

The O-line is getting conflicting messages I'll agree. But they've been playing this style all year. They have been losing one on one battles in the last couple of games. Hamilton is a revolving door right now. When he's not getting smoked, he's holding and killing drives.

I don't even know what you mean about Moreno. How many times did he touch the ball last night against one of the toughest rushing defenses in the league? I'm not ready to call him a bust like you are.

Do us all a favor and stick to posts about your favorite team. Favre is a great story this year and you'll have plenty to be excited about in the playoffs for your real team. The Broncos will be there too, but you don't have to watch. Us Bronco fans will be having fun in our "circle jerk"

NYBronco
11-10-2009, 02:02 PM
Look, this is a team in transition. It's a team that has maybe 65% of its positions filled with players taht will be here in 2-3 years when the tranformation is done. It's a team that has been gutted in many respects and a team that had umpteen holes to fill in the offseason. It's clear that many holes are yet to be filled, but we have a defense that is beyond respectable. We have a WR corps that has the talent and brain to learn this system and excel in it. We have a RB Corps that is capable of moving the chains when properly given holes to run through. Most importantly, we have 6 wins in 8 games even after all the monumental changes that took place. We're on our way up. Now, 'bout them holes:

1. Special Teams is marginal. Punter is plain awful. PK is solid. Coverage teams are marginal--but not as bad as last year. Still, ST is a squad that could very well cost us a game or two this year.

2. OL--The middle of the line--imo, the most important part of the line--is small and unable to make up for size with quicks or brains. Simply, they are getting mauled by bigger NT/DT and DE's on a weekly basis. Wiegmann and Hamilton have no place in this offense anymore and should be thanked and then cut at season's end. And since we're on the topic of pass protection--our RB, who basically become an OL when in for pass protect, are lost. For a pocket passer, pressure up the middle is the worst. Jake Plummer can deal with it, Kyle Orton cannot. (Neither can Simms, for all you morons who were calling for him last night) OL must get bigger--look for some FA pickups. Jahri Evans from NO would be a good place to start at G, 6'4" 320. Mankins the nutpuncher is also available and we know how mcd loves ex-pats.

And now to QB...Orton is not the guy. He's just not. Can we win with him? We already have. But can we get to where we want to be with him? No. We saw the difference between Pitt. and Denver last night--the quarterback spot. One stood in and delivered under duress while Orton gave up 14 points. He's a good transitional guy for this franchise, nothing more. He's the guy who can move this team upward until a legitimate guy with all the tools can carry on. No, Cutler wasn't taht guy. He's got a 5 cent head and a pi$$ poor attitude.

All in all, I'm happy with the renovation project that is the Broncos. We've hit on some good FA's that have enabled us to make wholesale changes but still not start from the ground floor. We now know that this team is not an elite team but a very good team who is built to compete in every game and that will be a contender in the coming 3 years.

I agree with your analysis except where item #2 cancels out item #3 (the QB discussion). In other words if the problems in # 2 are corrected #3 will take care of itself. I believe Orton is and can be an above average QB.

The past two weeks Denver has played the two teams that met in the AFC Championship playoff with Pittsburgh eventually winning the SB. And played the defending SB Champions fairly well... all things considered.

Cito Pelon
11-10-2009, 02:37 PM
I love that Pat Bowlen went out and found Josh McD and I love what Josh has brought to Denver. He will field many a great team for us. It is amazing what he has done in just one season he really has the Midis touch. As for this season it's simple we can't hang with the big boys for 60 minutes. We are a good football team but not an elite team none the less we will be fun to watch and they will make us proud just don't expect much in the way of playoffs.

I don't like that caveat much. Once you make the playoffs anything can happen.

Merlin
11-10-2009, 03:46 PM
It's another for a team like Cinci or San Diego (two teams we beat) to try.
Cinci's D did shut down Denver, and they have looked far better against elite teams than Denver since. SD's D looked a lot better this weekend than previous games. If they fixed what ailed them, they have exactly the kind of D that will kill Orton. This offense will do well against avg D's but you will not need an elite D to stop it as Cinci demonstrated.

mr007
11-10-2009, 03:52 PM
Again, it's one thing for Baltimore or Pittsburgh to "employ" a game-plan against us. It's another for a team like Cinci or San Diego (two teams we beat) to try.

Pittsburgh/Baltimore are elite defenses.


Really, because last I checked Baltimore, SD, and Cinci all had about the same Defensive stats this year....

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 03:56 PM
Really, because last I checked Baltimore, SD, and Cinci all had about the same Defensive stats this year....

We're lucky we caught Cinci when we did. They've beaten the Ravens twice since then and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they beat Pittsburgh next week.

baja
11-10-2009, 05:29 PM
I don't like that caveat much. Once you make the playoffs anything can happen.



Right..