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View Full Version : Has McDaniels lost his touch?


enjolras
11-09-2009, 10:12 PM
Already?:)

His latest moves have been... awful.

Ty Law is not the answer.
Berger is possibly the worst punter I've ever seen.

tsiguy96
11-09-2009, 10:12 PM
ty law played fine tonight. berger straight sucked.

bombay
11-09-2009, 10:13 PM
Good God.

Popps
11-09-2009, 10:14 PM
LOL

It's funny... if you just wait long enough, the threads get progressively worse as the night goes on.

Maybe it's booze.



Law actually had a decent game.

Champ had a rough one. DJ was awful. Elvis had one sack, but could have been more active.


Still, this loss is on the offense. Orton had his first bad game and wasn't helped out by a struggling line/running game.

Williams
11-09-2009, 10:14 PM
Good God.

:rofl: My thoughts exactly... unless this thread was started in jest.

Jekyll15Hyde
11-09-2009, 10:15 PM
got to get Berger out of here... what a waste

Steve Sewell
11-09-2009, 10:18 PM
LOL

It's funny... if you just wait long enough, the threads get progressively worse as the night goes on.

Maybe it's booze.



Law actually had a decent game.

Champ had a rough one. DJ was awful. Elvis had one sack, but could have been more active.


Still, this loss is on the offense. Orton had his first bad game and wasn't helped out by a struggling line/running game.

Yep, I was going to say that if anyone got abused in the game, it was Champ. I'm starting to think that our opponents are choosing him over Goodman. Just watching the game, very few passes were thrown Goodman's way. Champ is going to get his soon enough though, you can count on that.

Caveat Lector
11-09-2009, 10:23 PM
Maybe McDaniels watched Major League too many times. Lou Brown said at the start of the season that he wanted to give the media a 'sh.t burger' to eat. Well McDaniels has certainly served up a 'sh.t Berger'.

bpc
11-09-2009, 10:29 PM
I think McDaniels is fine. When you have a piece of coal as your QB, instead of a diamond, this is what happens when you run into a great defense/QB. You get beat soundly and you look pathetic in the process.

BigPlayShay
11-09-2009, 10:30 PM
I heard he lost his touch during the bye week. He took the family for a ride on the light rail. After that, the "touch" was gone.

ro_50
11-09-2009, 10:35 PM
Ty Law played ok enough for me, I don't know what game you were watching.

Taco John
11-09-2009, 10:37 PM
Berger sucks. But Ty Law played pretty well out there.

If you were going to criticize McDaniels, you might have thought to have something worth discussing, like going to the play action late in the game as though he had been setting it up all game long. At least there's some traction in that. But Law? That's just weak, weak stuff.

lazarus4444
11-10-2009, 01:01 AM
Law played great considering the situation he was thrust into. He'll only get better as he learns the defense.

watermock
11-10-2009, 01:12 AM
Honestly, both the berger and Law moves should of been used on the bye week.

Law didn't get off the plane till friday.

OBF1
11-10-2009, 01:16 AM
This reminds me of the offseason already...... painful to read this shiat

Popps
11-10-2009, 01:25 AM
This reminds me of the offseason already...... painful to read this shiat

Hang in there, man.

We knew the trolls like Mock and the Jay-Gays would be celebrating losses. It's just how it's going to be from here-out.


We're going to have the last laugh, and these trolls will get run off the board.


There was a time when Raiders fans used to troll this board. Honestly. I'm sure you remember. Now, they're a distant memory.

These ex-Broncos fans will eventually follow suit as we improve and Cutler continues his path to failure.


Six wins, two losses. I'll take that kind of start every season.

Hulamau
11-10-2009, 01:29 AM
Honestly, both the berger and Law moves should of been used on the bye week.

Law didn't get off the plane till friday.

Shoulda Coulda Woulda.... Complain Complain Complain.

Berger isn't the answer neither was Kern ... Law looks just fine and we will win a few more games Mock .. relax

watermock
11-10-2009, 01:58 AM
Yeah Yah yeah Popps.

The offense scored 3 points, the D 7 and saved 14.

The score would of been 35-3 without the D.

watermock
11-10-2009, 02:01 AM
I never complained about Law, he was put in a spot. I'm surpreised he wasn't toasted more.

go_broncos
11-10-2009, 04:36 AM
Mcd reminded me of Zorn.

Next week.it will be battle of Screen Pases.

It will be fun to watch

Broncoman13
11-10-2009, 04:48 AM
Already?:)

His latest moves have been... awful.

Ty Law is not the answer.
Berger is possibly the worst punter I've ever seen.

He hasn't lost his touch. He has gone up against two very good teams in consecutive weeks. He has an approach that he feels will win each week. Sometimes you have to look at your personnel and face the music. We tried to beat both the Ravens and Steelers at their own game and we got our buts handed to us for trying it. We are a lot more physical than we have been in year's past. That being said, we still aren't in the same league as teams like the Ravens and Steelers.

Some fans need to understand that coming into this season we were expected to win 3-6 games. That isn't because we have superior talent and a poor coach... more like, a good coach with inferior talent. If you've listened to Mediator 12 over the years you know that scheme in the first part of the season can overcome some talent deficiencies. We're at that point of the season when teams start to figure out what everyone else is doing and take advantage, and the teams with more talent start to shine through.

I'm ready to face the music and realize exactly what this team is. Capable of beating anyone in the AFC West but not nearly ready to play with the big boys. In fact, ask yourself this question. If we played the Pats, Bengals, Cowboys, or Chargers again... will we beat them? Chargers maybe, the others no. More talent is needed.

And it wasn't Law that was getting torched all night, it was Champ, Law, and Goodman. The 2nd TD was b/c of the line not getting pressure (due to holding I realize).

lex
11-10-2009, 05:04 AM
LOL

It's funny... if you just wait long enough, the threads get progressively worse as the night goes on.

Maybe it's booze.



Law actually had a decent game.

Champ had a rough one. DJ was awful. Elvis had one sack, but could have been more active.


Still, this loss is on the offense. Orton had his first bad game and wasn't helped out by a struggling line/running game.

Orton is a big part of why the running game is struggling. Like it or not, Cutler's big arm makes the defense defend the whole field. Prior to Cutler replacing Plummer, it was the same complaints about the running game struggling but then once they put Cutler in, the running game performed better because even though he was a rookie, teams knew he could punish them with his arm if they didnt defend the whole field.

With the running game, its two problems. No threat to stiretch the field in the passing game and either Hamilton needing to be replaced or insisting on running plays that dont fit the personnel.

watermock
11-10-2009, 05:14 AM
in consecutive weeks. He has an approach that he feels will win each week. Sometimes you have to look at your personnel and face the music. We tried to beat both the Ravens and Steelers at their own game and we got our buts handed to us for trying it.]

Then by your own definition he blew chunks

tell us something we don't know from the 10 point last 8 QUARTERS.,

go_broncos
11-10-2009, 05:19 AM
Mcd calls short pases even if it doesn't work..that's his problem.
I believe he doesn't trust Orton.

He relies heavily on Defense to win the games for us.

Mcd should understand that the defense will be tired if the offense doesnt move the ball.

barryr
11-10-2009, 05:24 AM
The biggest issue I have with the plays is with all the talk of Royal's speed, yet they seem to consistently have him run 5 yard pass patterns.

The o-line has stunk 2 games in a row.

Berger is so worried about punting the ball high, but is rarely getting any distance. I'd be fine with 40 yard punts as long as they was never a return.

watermock
11-10-2009, 05:31 AM
Some fans need to understand that coming into this season we were expected to win 3-6 games.

That's amusing.

Show me 1 article that said we would go 3-13.

Regardless, we should be 7-1 considsering the job Nolan has done.

It was McD's job to get a RB and LG.

Broncoman13
11-10-2009, 05:35 AM
Then by your own definition he blew chunks

tell us something we don't know from the 10 point last 8 QUARTERS.,

No I agree, the game plan was to stand up and punch the bully in the mouth... in both instances the bully got pissed and came back and whipped our asses. Sometimes when you pick a fight with the bully you find out why the bully came to be in the first place... McD is learning that lesson now. I had hoped that he would've learned his lesson last week as the Ravens and Steelers are both very physical teams. It was obvious that we couldn't stand toe to toe with the Ravens, why think we could with the Steelers?

So, if he is unwilling to change his game plan, then we better go out and get some big mean bastards that will carry out what he wants to do... whatever that may be. Say what you want about Shanny's approach, it was the opposite side of the spectrum. With Shanny, we were going to out think you and do it with quickness. With McD, we're going to stand up and pop you in the mouth over and over and over... some jaws are just stronger than others. Some teams have folded (Chargers) some have not.

Broncoman13
11-10-2009, 05:37 AM
That's amusing.

Show me 1 article that said we would go 3-13.

Regardless, we should be 7-1 considsering the job Nolan has done.

It was McD's job to get a RB and LG.

Mock, you know you shouldn't be drinking this early in the morning. We're lucky to be 6-2 at this point. If anything, we should be 5-3.

Mountain Bronco
11-10-2009, 08:13 AM
Berger sucks. But Ty Law played pretty well out there.

If you were going to criticize McDaniels, you might have thought to have something worth discussing, like going to the play action late in the game as though he had been setting it up all game long. At least there's some traction in that. But Law? That's just weak, weak stuff.

Seriously, critique the play calling. Play action in the 4th quarter with 25 yards rushing, yeah they are going to go for that. One pass play of over 20 yards attempted before the game was lost? I know Orton doesn't have the arm, but you have to take a shot. Dinking and dunking doesn't work on a team like Pitt.

Mountain Bronco
11-10-2009, 08:20 AM
That's amusing.

Show me 1 article that said we would go 3-13.

Regardless, we should be 7-1 considsering the job Nolan has done.

It was McD's job to get a RB and LG.

4-12 is that close enough?

http://www.footballlocks.com/nfl_predictions_denver_broncos.shtml

strafen
11-10-2009, 08:23 AM
Already?:)

His latest moves have been... awful.

Ty Law is not the answer.
Berger is possibly the worst punter I've ever seen.I agree. He's made the wrong moves.
He needs to make up for that by benching Orton now!

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 08:30 AM
Yeah. Bowlen should fire McD. What's Dan Reeves up to these days? How about Chuck Knox? I'll bet he could fix our running game. Hell, I could do it. I've played Madden a bunch of times.

TonyR
11-10-2009, 08:31 AM
Orton is a big part of why the running game is struggling. Like it or not, Cutler's big arm makes the defense defend the whole field.

In theory, yes. In practice, it doesn't appear to be working out that way in Chicago.

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 08:34 AM
These Cutler lovers are starting to sound like Scarlett O'Hara. "Oh Brett, Brett - I mean Jay - Come back. Come back to Tara!" :Whaaaa!:

lex
11-10-2009, 08:35 AM
In theory, yes. In practice, it doesn't appear to be working out that way in Chicago.

Their OLine has been dismal. Its been so bad that even with Cutlers arm, its still struggling. Last year our running game struggled at times even with Cutler. At no point was there an assertion that its exclusively about Cutlers arm, but you, no doubt, made this interpretation and ran with it. Making the defense defend the whole field helps a lot but having a good Oline is still probably more important.

TonyR
11-10-2009, 08:38 AM
Their OLine has been dismal. Its been so bad that even with Cutlers arm, its still struggling.

Interesting that they "upgraded" the O-line this year and yet their running game was better last year. You'd think with a similar O-line and Cutler you'd see improvement, no? But I think in your confusion on this issue you've made the real story clear: it's more about the O-line than the QB, and to a considerable extent. Denver is struggling running the ball because of their O-line more than Orton. Same story in Chicago.

lex
11-10-2009, 08:41 AM
Interesting that they "upgraded" the O-line this year and yet their running game was better last year. You'd think with a similar O-line and Cutler you'd see improvement, no? But I think in your confusion on this issue you've made the real story clear: it's more about the O-line than the QB, and to a considerable extent. Denver is struggling running the ball because of their O-line more than Orton. Same story in Chicago.

Its both no downfield threat and the line but moreso the line.

CEH
11-10-2009, 08:48 AM
Like many have said let's be patience
McD is far from replacing the old Shanny small quick guys with the beef he likes from the NE days.

Shanny from '00 to '08 over the last 12 games of every season except '05 had failed to exceed .500 football. That is a telling and daming trend about his football teams

I'm waiting to see how McD solves this issue and it may not be solved this year but I gotta believe we need to be a bigger more physical team all around

Bham and Weignam will be replaced next year hopefully with some road graders like Pitts has

Smiling Assassin27
11-10-2009, 08:49 AM
This says it all for me. Admit it, you want one.

http://dvdforme.com/Jim/30469.jpg

lex
11-10-2009, 08:50 AM
Like many have said let's be patience
McD is far from replacing the old Shanny small quick guys with the beef he likes from the NE days.
Shanny from '00 to '08 over the last 12 games of every season except '05 had failed to exceed .500 football. That is a telling and daming trend about his football teams

I'm waiting to see how McD solves this issue and it may not be solved this year but I gotta believe we need to be a bigger more physical team all around

Bham and Weignam will be replaced next year hopefully with some road graders like Pitts has

Once again, McDaniels said he wanted an offense that could do both and wanted to run some ZBS in NE but he didnt have the guys who could run it. This was something that was often discussed early in the offseason.

Meck77
11-10-2009, 08:51 AM
Let's not forget the nearly 1/3 or $30M in dead money McD had to work with this season. It's remarkable we've done this well considering the amount of GARBAGE shanny left behind.

The only people who have lost touch are the idiots who gave up on this team this team in July. Bunch of bandwagoners.

colonelbeef
11-10-2009, 08:53 AM
LOL

It's funny... if you just wait long enough, the threads get progressively worse as the night goes on.

Maybe it's booze.



Law actually had a decent game.

Champ had a rough one. DJ was awful. Elvis had one sack, but could have been more active.


Still, this loss is on the offense. Orton had his first bad game and wasn't helped out by a struggling line/running game.

Both losses have been on the offense, and just about every win has been on the defense. Get your head out of your ass.

McDaniels is still a good coach, but he handcuffed himself with a mediocre QB that is unable avoid pressure and unable to stretch the field and take the pressure off of the line and running game.

They should still win the division due to the Raiders and KC being absolutely terrible.

TonyR
11-10-2009, 08:55 AM
The only people who have lost touch are the idiots who gave up on this team this team in July.

Yep, and sadly a couple of losses have brought the cockroaches back out in full force.

Smiling Assassin27
11-10-2009, 08:57 AM
Those asking for Simms or Bradystater to start know this much about football:

http://i.ebayimg.com/06/!Bd4nn9g!mk~$(KGrHqEH-DcEri!ZYB0oBK65qRPoig~~_12.JPG

colonelbeef
11-10-2009, 08:57 AM
Let's not forget the nearly 1/3 or $30M in dead money McD had to work with this season. It's remarkable we've done this well considering the amount of GARBAGE shanny left behind.

The only people who have lost touch are the idiots who gave up on this team this team in July. Bunch of bandwagoners.

Yeah, he only left young stars at WR, WR, QB, TE, LT, RT, G, FB, along with a stalwart C, Daniel Graham, and Brandon Stokley.

The job was to fix the defense and continue the development of the offense. He accomplished A rather well, Mike Nolan was a terrific hire and moving Dumervil (another Shanahan pick) to LB was a great move.

He also completely destroyed the offense by letting Cutler go and abandoning the running style the OL was designed for.

Shanahan left tons of money under the cap, lots of draft picks, and young stars up an down the offense, with Bailey, Williams, and Dumervil on D.

Your opinion is pure garbage. Shanahan left behind plenty to work with, it was the plum job this past offseason because of this.

Smiling Assassin27
11-10-2009, 09:03 AM
Yeah, he only left young stars at WR, WR, QB, TE, LT, RT, G, FB, along with a stalwart C, Daniel Graham, and Brandon Stokley.

The job was to fix the defense and continue the development of the offense. He accomplished A rather well, Mike Nolan was a terrific hire and moving Dumervil (another Shanahan pick) to LB was a great move.

He also completely destroyed the offense by letting Cutler go and abandoning the running style the OL was designed for.

Shanahan left tons of money under the cap, lots of draft picks, and young stars up an down the offense, with Bailey, Williams, and Dumervil on D.

Your opinion is pure garbage. Shanahan left behind plenty to work with, it was the plum job this past offseason because of this.

your mistake is that all those players were tailor made for SHANNY'S system, not mcd's. did you see your 'stalwart' C get ragdolled last night? How about that 'stalwart' G? the middle of the line is the most important part of the offense for this scheme, and it sucks out loud. did you expect a new coach who virtually constructed his own offense to say 'well, shanny's offense did do well here, i'm gonna scrap my own offense--which won a superbowl and tore it up even more than shanny's--so we can still play shannyball? don't be daft. you act as if this team--an 8-8 team at best--should have been left intact. this team is already 3/4 of the way to matching last year's win total and you're bitching? it looks different and that's why you're all pi$$y. you want to win with beauty while mcd just wants to win and get better in year 1 of this makeover.

Bronco Rob
11-10-2009, 09:10 AM
Six wins, two losses. I'll take that kind of start every season.





TRUTH!



:strong:

colonelbeef
11-10-2009, 09:10 AM
your mistake is that all those players were tailor made for SHANNY'S system, not mcd's. did you see your 'stalwart' C get ragdolled last night? How about that 'stalwart' G? the middle of the line is the most important part of the offense for this scheme, and it sucks out loud. did you expect a new coach who virtually constructed his own offense to say 'well, shanny's offense did do well here, i'm gonna scrap my own offense--which won a superbowl and tore it up even more than shanny's--so we can still play shannyball? don't be daft. you act as if this team--an 8-8 team at best--should have been left intact. this team is already 3/4 of the way to matching last year's win total and you're b****ing? it looks different and that's why you're all pi$$y. you want to win with beauty while mcd just wants to win and get better in year 1 of this makeover.

Nope, not at all.

the offense wasn't broken, it was just young and inexperienced. The defense was broken. It needed to be rebuilt; fortunately, defenses are far easier to rebuild than offenses are, particularly when you have no QB, as the Broncos now find themselves in that position.

The team was perfectly positioned to have a new DC come in, spend money and picks upgrading, and make multiple runs at titles with the offense in tact. Tinkering was to be expected. Losing the QB and killing the offense was not to be expected.

The defense has carried this team to a few wins, that is fantastic, and it's fun to watch. The offense is downright horrid. Last years' O needed a little more time and a defense to compliment it- now that a new QB is needed, all bets are off. Champ is getting old, Dawkins is already old.

I don't doubt McDaniels can get the offense together eventually, it's just too bad that he didn't spend all of his energy coaching up the offense that was already in place instead of setting it back 5 years instead.

Smiling Assassin27
11-10-2009, 09:17 AM
Nope, not at all.

the offense wasn't broken, it was just young and inexperienced. The defense was broken. It needed to be rebuilt; fortunately, defenses are far easier to rebuild than offenses are, particularly when you have no QB, as the Broncos now find themselves in that position.

The team was perfectly positioned to have a new DC come in, spend money and picks upgrading, and make multiple runs at titles with the offense in tact. Tinkering was to be expected. Losing the QB and killing the offense was not to be expected.

The defense has carried this team to a few wins, that is fantastic, and it's fun to watch. The offense is downright horrid. Last years' O needed a little more time and a defense to compliment it- now that a new QB is needed, all bets are off. Champ is getting old, Dawkins is already old.

I don't doubt McDaniels can get the offense together eventually, it's just too bad that he didn't spend all of his energy coaching up the offense that was already in place instead of setting it back 5 years instead.

hamilton and wiegmann, the weakest links, were not young and inexperienced. they were good in shanny's system, but failures in this one.

how many DC's have come in already? coyer, bates, slowik, rhodes...that route hasn't worked because shanny was personel man as well. he drafted jar-jar stink moss, for crying out loud. you could have anyone as DC and the personnel would make them fail.

again, if you were mcd--accomplished as hell as an OC with a super bowl ring and record after record set with your scheme--would you really keep shanny's system in place after being a middle of the pack scoring unit? why would mcd rely on someone else's system to determine his success or failure?

have you seen how last year's qb is performing in chicago? he's in the same situation there--bad defense--and is failing just as colossally. he doesn't succeed in spite of adversity, he contributes to it. orton is inferior from a talent perspective, for sure. but from a QUARTERBACK perspective, he's every bit cutler's equal. besides, this is all moot. cutler wanted out and mcd misplayed his hand, and the team is better for it.

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 09:25 AM
your mistake is that all those players were tailor made for SHANNY'S system, not mcd's. did you see your 'stalwart' C get ragdolled last night? How about that 'stalwart' G? the middle of the line is the most important part of the offense for this scheme, and it sucks out loud. did you expect a new coach who virtually constructed his own offense to say 'well, shanny's offense did do well here, i'm gonna scrap my own offense--which won a superbowl and tore it up even more than shanny's--so we can still play shannyball? don't be daft. you act as if this team--an 8-8 team at best--should have been left intact. this team is already 3/4 of the way to matching last year's win total and you're b****ing? it looks different and that's why you're all pi$$y. you want to win with beauty while mcd just wants to win and get better in year 1 of this makeover.

I actually have to applaud a Smiling Ass post? Will wonders never cease? ;D

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 09:27 AM
Nope, not at all.

the offense wasn't broken, it was just young and inexperienced. The defense was broken. It needed to be rebuilt; fortunately, defenses are far easier to rebuild than offenses are, particularly when you have no QB, as the Broncos now find themselves in that position.

The team was perfectly positioned to have a new DC come in, spend money and picks upgrading, and make multiple runs at titles with the offense in tact. Tinkering was to be expected. Losing the QB and killing the offense was not to be expected.

The defense has carried this team to a few wins, that is fantastic, and it's fun to watch. The offense is downright horrid. Last years' O needed a little more time and a defense to compliment it- now that a new QB is needed, all bets are off. Champ is getting old, Dawkins is already old.

I don't doubt McDaniels can get the offense together eventually, it's just too bad that he didn't spend all of his energy coaching up the offense that was already in place instead of setting it back 5 years instead.

I just had to laugh at that ridiculous assertion in bold. Shanahan couldn't do it in ten years. Must not be too easy. I have to categorize this post under - Throw a bunch of **** at the wall and see if anything sticks.

Popps
11-10-2009, 09:33 AM
Both losses have been on the offense, and just about every win has been on the defense.
.


Hey everyone!!!

Colon-beef is back!!


What a crazy coincidence!

Colon-beef was invisible through six wins, and now he's here celebrating two losses. WOW! Who would have thought it, huh?

Popps
11-10-2009, 09:33 AM
I just had to laugh at that ridiculous assertion in bold. .

The idiocy never ends around here.

Smiling Assassin27
11-10-2009, 09:35 AM
I actually have to applaud a Smiling Ass post? Will wonders never cease? ;D

*tearing up* i just printed that, roh. :thumbsup:

gyldenlove
11-10-2009, 09:43 AM
I have noticed some things about the Mcdaniels offense in the first 8 games and I think it goes a long way towards explaining the losses we have suffered in the last 2 games.

1. The run is set up by the spread.
This really comes down to Mcdaniels prefering to run an extra TE or WR over a full back. Because there is no lead blocker defenders can play penetration on run plays because they know they won't be blocked by a FB and leave their gap empty for the RB. In the last 2 games we have seen a lot of run plays where defenders are getting in the backfield or making the tackle at the line because they don't risk getting taken out by the FB.
In New England you could do that because the defenders had to cover the outside and the deep middle meaning that the short middle of the field was understaffed to stop the run. Because such a large % of our passing goes to the short middle that is the place people are stacking up so we can't set up the run since most teams are playing with a lot of people in the box to stop the short passes.

2. Limited route tree.
Right now we are only passing on slants, posts, ins, hitches and comebacks. We have virtually no out routes, the go is non-existant, so is the corner. This seems to me to be a direct result of Ortons arm strength, we are not going with long passes or passes to the outside which would open up the middle and keep CBs honest.

3. The screen is a safety net.
Mcdaniels doesn't seem to use a lot of draw plays and for obvious reasons we are not using go routes or jump balls to combat the blitz, so we are left trying to use the screen to keep linebackers at bay. The only problem is that it seems people have figured out that if you dedicate a safety to the screen it is pretty useless. This means we have been left with no good move to punish blitzes and especially late in games we are getting blitzed like crazy and Orton is not getting the ball to his guys.

4. Same old hot start, slow finish.
Last year we dominated many games offensively as long as we were on the script, but as soon as playcalling was done interactively we slowed down, limited the playbook and got in trouble. The exact same thing is happening now, yesterday we had some wild horse formations, heavy sets with playaction passes, stay route passes etc early on and then later we became super predictable and got away from all the stuff that we had success with early.
I am not sure why, but for some reason Mcdaniels is holding this offense back in a big way, maybe it is because he has no faith in Ortons ability to make throws, maybe it is the offensive line or the skill players, I don't know, but he has reined them in and keeping it very simple when he calls plays - and it is frankly pathetic to watch.

5. Interior pressure is eating us up.
Hamilton and Wiegman are getting beaten by size and power again and again. Yesterday on so many plays you could see the a gaps open up like a horny teenager on coke because Wiegman needed help from Kuper to double team his guy and Hamilton was busy running behind his guy. Orton is good in the pocket when he can step up and keep his feet planted, but when pressure comes from the front he looks like a girl, he can't run away from the pressure and his arm strength means he struggles to get the ball to the line of scrimmage when his feet aren't set. To top it all off Moreno seems afraid to pass block all of a sudden, yesterday I saw him lay down in front of blitzers on a number of occasions, not jumping into them or at them but rather two steps in front of them meaning he just becomes a mild obstacle they have to run around.

broncofan7
11-10-2009, 09:43 AM
I just had to laugh at that ridiculous assertion in bold. Shanahan couldn't do it in ten years. Must not be too easy. I have to categorize this post under - Throw a bunch of **** at the wall and see if anything sticks.

What is more apt is top 10 -12 QB's are harder to find than DC's...............Jake Plummer, Brian Griese, Kyle Orton, Chris Miller, Steve Buerlein. Not top 12 QB's--Jay Cutler--top 10-12.

See Greg Williams dramatic improvement in NO along with Nolan's D here and the Dolphins D in 2008. Defenses ARE EASIER TO TURN AROUND than is the prospect of drafting and developing a top 1/3rd in the league QB-------We had the makings of an offensive juggernaut, our yards and third down conversion rate was GOLDEN--we just needed to improve our Red zone efficiency--now we are left with a HUGE hole @ the Qb position....a HUGE HOLE.

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 09:45 AM
What is more apt is top 10 -12 QB's are harder to find than DC's...............Jake Plummer, Brian Griese, Kyle Orton, Chris Miller, Steve Buerlein. Not top 12 QB's--Jay Cutler--top 10-12.

See Greg Williams dramatic improvement in NO along with Nolan's D here and the Dolphins D in 2008. Defenses ARE EASIER TO TURN AROUND than is the prospect of drafting and developing a top 1/3rd in the league QB-------We had the makings of an offensive juggernaut, our yards and third down conversion rate was GOLDEN--we just needed to improve our Red zone efficiency--now we are left with a HUGE hole @ the Qb position....a HUGE HOLE.

Better than a huge asshole at the position. Ha!

BroncoBuff
11-10-2009, 09:53 AM
Already?:)

His latest moves have been... awful.

Ty Law is not the answer.
Berger is possibly the worst punter I've ever seen.

And there was a virtual feeding frenzy for JMFW ... four teams in 48 hours:


http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4212/45741299.jpg


The Law for Jack move was obviously with an eye already on the postseason. Way too early to make too much of the Quinn situation or any other.

The Kern waiver was pretty weird though.

oubronco
11-10-2009, 10:01 AM
LOL

It's funny... if you just wait long enough, the threads get progressively worse as the night goes on.

Maybe it's booze.



Law actually had a decent game.

Champ had a rough one. DJ was awful. Elvis had one sack, but could have been more active.


Still, this loss is on the offense. Orton had his first bad game and wasn't helped out by a struggling line/running game.


are fuggin serious? LOL

broncofan7
11-10-2009, 10:05 AM
are fuggin serious? LOL

probably. In his orange colored world--it takes a QB throwing 3 Int's, 1 for a Td and leading his team to only 3 points for that to be a bad game--as opposed to the 7 points he led us to (remember that Pass int call?) against Baltimore......We have won 5 games DESPITE our QB play--I'll give orton credit for NE--but he has been carried by our DST's in our other 5 games--the two times that he has been asked to step up to play a CONSISTENT FULL GAME--he has failed miserably. He is what he is........a third tier starting QB........

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 10:26 AM
I don't blame the INT that cost us 7 on Orton. Knowshon ran into the umpire and Orton threw where he was supposed to be. Rookie mistake. Don't run into the umpire!

I can't believe some people think that losing to the SB champs is some kind of a disaster. Get a little perspective.

oubronco
11-10-2009, 10:29 AM
I don't blame the INT that cost us 7 on Orton. Knowshon ran into the umpire and Orton threw where he was supposed to be. Rookie mistake. Don't run into the umpire!

I can't believe some people think that losing to the SB champs is some kind of a disaster. Get a little perspective.

after he pump faked 3 times Orton really telegraghs where he's throwing quite a bit

Taco John
11-10-2009, 10:39 AM
those asking for simms or bradystater to start know this much about football:

http://i.ebayimg.com/06/!bd4nn9g!mk~$(kgrhqeh-dceri!zyb0obk65qrpoig~~_12.jpg

lol

gtown
11-10-2009, 10:50 AM
Mcd calls short pases even if it doesn't work..that's his problem.
I believe he doesn't trust Orton.

He relies heavily on Defense to win the games for us.

Mcd should understand that the defense will be tired if the offense doesnt move the ball.

Would you trust Orton? He has no accuracy over ten yards if there is any pressure in his face. So he is gonna look like **** coming playoff time, if we make it (SD is one game back).

McD has gotta activate Quinn and if need be Olsen, go max protect for the whole game, and hope to God the run game gets going. Orton gets flustered when he gets hit and is a totally liability when he can't act like a statue back there. Max protect, get Knowshon outta there on obvious passing downs, and prey that Orton finds the open receiver without having to move his concrete feet.

This sucks. I just got 45yd line tickets four rows behind the Broncos bench for the Redskins game expecting a cakewalk. Now I am not so sure we can even win at FedEx.

enjolras
11-10-2009, 10:54 AM
LOL

It's funny... if you just wait long enough, the threads get progressively worse as the night goes on.

Maybe it's booze.

Ya... I barely remember posting this. It does suck:)

We we're at Jacksons Hole (turns out it's a Pittsburgh bar.. who knew?) taking advantage of the $10 all-you-can-drink (PBR/Jim Beam) during Monday night football. So ya... I'm blaming this one on the booze and my generally angry attitude listening to Pitt fans go nuts all night.

broncofan7
11-10-2009, 11:05 AM
I don't blame the INT that cost us 7 on Orton. Knowshon ran into the umpire and Orton threw where he was supposed to be. Rookie mistake. Don't run into the umpire!

I can't believe some people think that losing to the SB champs is some kind of a disaster. Get a little perspective.

that throw was WAY HIGH....that is on the QB.

broncofan7
11-10-2009, 11:06 AM
I can't believe some people think that losing to the SB champs is some kind of a disaster. Get a little perspective.

3 offensive points a week after scoring 7 is a disaster............

TonyR
11-10-2009, 11:12 AM
that throw was WAY HIGH....that is on the QB.

I think you're talking about a different int. He's referring to the first one, the pick-6. The ref impeded the route and caused the int.

broncofan7
11-10-2009, 11:14 AM
lol

Your sense of humor is as lacking as your choice of servers is..........

broncofan7
11-10-2009, 11:18 AM
I think you're talking about a different int. He's referring to the first one, the pick-6. The ref impeded the route and caused the int.

He had pressure--Orton slid/stumbled forward--then threw HIGH and #23 (?) picked it off and waltzed into the endzone.......--the defender actually chucked knowshon into the ref--but the throw was HIGH not necessarily wide.........

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 11:20 AM
He had pressure--Orton slid/stumbled forward--then threw HIGH and #23 (?) picked it off and waltzed into the endzone.......--the defender actually chucked knowshon into the ref--but the throw was HIGH not necessarily wide.........

Wrong. He threw to where Knowshon should have been. It was a timing route.

Bob
11-10-2009, 11:24 AM
Already?:)

His latest moves have been... awful.

Ty Law is not the answer.
Berger is possibly the worst punter I've ever seen.

McDaniels has not lost his touch, we are getting in-touch with what should have been obvious, we are not better than the Steelers this year. We have been served some reality by more physical teams -- the Steelers are the champs, the Broncos will go to the playoffs -- which is a hell of alot more than I expected at the beginning of the season, we should be shocked that we have done so well, considering our off-season.

broncofan7
11-10-2009, 11:25 AM
Wrong. He threw to where Knowshon should have been. It was a timing route.

that was messed up by the defender chcuking Moreno into the ref --that ball would have been incomplete had it not been HIGH AS WELL.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110900/2009/REG9/steelers@broncos

1st highlight--orton gets pressure--steps up, throws HIGH (and wide b/c knowshon hit the ref)--if he only threw it to where he thought Moreno was--it would have been incomplete--but like his other INT--it was HIGH.

azbroncfan
11-10-2009, 11:28 AM
Lets fire him already.

Cito Pelon
11-10-2009, 11:29 AM
I don't know about him losing his touch, but I'd lke to see the team find some stomp.

fontaine
11-10-2009, 11:32 AM
I'm not too down on Orton after this game. If you expected him to win this game on that back of his arm then it was never going to happen against this kind of defense.

I am however, disapointed at McDaniels. Against a 3-4 front you're going to have that extra mobile LB that can drop back into coverage and flood the passing lanes on the short area passing game.

It was pretty clear that B'more did the same thing with guys like Lewis just sitting five-seven yards behind the DL waiting for the slot WR to come across the middle and shutting him down.

Hell, it's not just us, that Pitt D has shut down passing attacks much much better than ours in the past years on that principle. I just didn't expect McDaniels to fall into that trap. If you've got a passing game that can hit those 20 yard passes consistently then it's different but we don't have that.

I'm surprised McDaniels didn't learn from that and try to counter with something different. I was hoping that we would at least attempt to run over them by using guys like Graham etc and plow through their front seven which was missing 2 starters and one backup.

But I expect our offense to be much improved against Washington's 43.

tonngo0
11-10-2009, 11:33 AM
Maybe Kern was the lucky charm. Kern is 8-0, Broncos 6-2, Titans 2-6.

24champ
11-10-2009, 11:39 AM
I'd like to see some better playcalling from McD. Gotta throw down the field every now and then. I don't think the Broncos have thrown past 20 yards in the last 2 games.

And I agree with Cito, this team needs to find some stomp.

azbroncfan
11-10-2009, 11:41 AM
Yeah Yah yeah Popps.

The offense scored 3 points, the D 7 and saved 14.

The score would of been 35-3 without the D.

Everything OK Mock? I notice you are back to posting a lot more over the past 2 weeks.

TonyR
11-10-2009, 11:43 AM
...1st highlight--orton gets pressure--steps up, throws HIGH (and wide b/c knowshon hit the ref)--

You're right, that angle does show it to be high. That being said, if the ref doesn't impede Moreno I don't think the pick is made because Moreno would have either caught/touched the ball or at the very least been in the way.

Rohirrim
11-10-2009, 12:01 PM
that was messed up by the defender chcuking Moreno into the ref --that ball would have been incomplete had it not been HIGH AS WELL.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110900/2009/REG9/steelers@broncos

1st highlight--orton gets pressure--steps up, throws HIGH (and wide b/c knowshon hit the ref)--if he only threw it to where he thought Moreno was--it would have been incomplete--but like his other INT--it was HIGH.

Can't watch vids at work. I'll check it out when I get home.

Cito Pelon
11-10-2009, 12:22 PM
Hey everyone!!!

Colon-beef is back!!


What a crazy coincidence!

Colon-beef was invisible through six wins, and now he's here celebrating two losses. WOW! Who would have thought it, huh?

Que la sorpresa. Los gusanos se aperecen. The worms appear.

DrFate
11-10-2009, 01:04 PM
Play action is not terribly effective with no threat of a run game. And the run game isn't real scary when there is no threat of throwing the ball more than 10 yards downfield.

These things play off each other. You can't live on screens and expect to have an effective ground game unless you have a monster OLine. And the Broncos don't.

Orton has to step up and the play calling has to give him a chance.

Cito Pelon
11-10-2009, 01:58 PM
I have noticed some things about the Mcdaniels offense in the first 8 games and I think it goes a long way towards explaining the losses we have suffered in the last 2 games.

1. The run is set up by the spread.
This really comes down to Mcdaniels prefering to run an extra TE or WR over a full back. Because there is no lead blocker defenders can play penetration on run plays because they know they won't be blocked by a FB and leave their gap empty for the RB. In the last 2 games we have seen a lot of run plays where defenders are getting in the backfield or making the tackle at the line because they don't risk getting taken out by the FB.
In New England you could do that because the defenders had to cover the outside and the deep middle meaning that the short middle of the field was understaffed to stop the run. Because such a large % of our passing goes to the short middle that is the place people are stacking up so we can't set up the run since most teams are playing with a lot of people in the box to stop the short passes.

2. Limited route tree.
Right now we are only passing on slants, posts, ins, hitches and comebacks. We have virtually no out routes, the go is non-existant, so is the corner. This seems to me to be a direct result of Ortons arm strength, we are not going with long passes or passes to the outside which would open up the middle and keep CBs honest.

3. The screen is a safety net.
Mcdaniels doesn't seem to use a lot of draw plays and for obvious reasons we are not using go routes or jump balls to combat the blitz, so we are left trying to use the screen to keep linebackers at bay. The only problem is that it seems people have figured out that if you dedicate a safety to the screen it is pretty useless. This means we have been left with no good move to punish blitzes and especially late in games we are getting blitzed like crazy and Orton is not getting the ball to his guys.

4. Same old hot start, slow finish.
Last year we dominated many games offensively as long as we were on the script, but as soon as playcalling was done interactively we slowed down, limited the playbook and got in trouble. The exact same thing is happening now, yesterday we had some wild horse formations, heavy sets with playaction passes, stay route passes etc early on and then later we became super predictable and got away from all the stuff that we had success with early.
I am not sure why, but for some reason Mcdaniels is holding this offense back in a big way, maybe it is because he has no faith in Ortons ability to make throws, maybe it is the offensive line or the skill players, I don't know, but he has reined them in and keeping it very simple when he calls plays - and it is frankly pathetic to watch.

5. Interior pressure is eating us up.
Hamilton and Wiegman are getting beaten by size and power again and again. Yesterday on so many plays you could see the a gaps open up like a horny teenager on coke because Wiegman needed help from Kuper to double team his guy and Hamilton was busy running behind his guy. Orton is good in the pocket when he can step up and keep his feet planted, but when pressure comes from the front he looks like a girl, he can't run away from the pressure and his arm strength means he struggles to get the ball to the line of scrimmage when his feet aren't set. To top it all off Moreno seems afraid to pass block all of a sudden, yesterday I saw him lay down in front of blitzers on a number of occasions, not jumping into them or at them but rather two steps in front of them meaning he just becomes a mild obstacle they have to run around.

That was a pretty good rant, and accurate

Cito Pelon
11-10-2009, 02:04 PM
Play action is not terribly effective with no threat of a run game. And the run game isn't real scary when there is no threat of throwing the ball more than 10 yards downfield.

These things play off each other. You can't live on screens and expect to have an effective ground game unless you have a monster OLine. And the Broncos don't.

Orton has to step up and the play calling has to give him a chance.

Orton's play-action is ****. He doesn't sell it at all. If you're gonna set up under center, you can't just wave the ball at the RB on playaction, you have to stick it right into his stomach then set your feet to pass. Plummer was a master at PA and that was one of the reasons he had such success. Orton better get his fundamantels down. If I was McD I'd be riding him about Orton's PA stupidity. PA is a big part of the O, it has to be executed perfectly, not the lackadaisical stuff I've seen from Orton.

oubronco
11-10-2009, 02:07 PM
No More "MY BAD" Coach the FUGGIN Game

Crushaholic
11-10-2009, 02:16 PM
This says it all for me. Admit it, you want one.

http://dvdforme.com/Jim/30469.jpg


That actually looks pretty sweet...:thumbs:

Beantown Bronco
11-10-2009, 02:24 PM
"I'll take care of it"

Br0nc0Buster
11-10-2009, 03:59 PM
I was a little worried about how this team would do once teams started figuring out their tendancies

Not worried yet because the Ravens and Steelers are very good teams, but I am dissapointed to see us get stomped back to back weeks

If there is one thing that Josh is doing that I dont agree with it is the power running with our linemen
It isnt working, it is frustrating to see our running game fail so hard

TonyR
11-10-2009, 04:27 PM
No More "MY BAD" Coach the FUGGIN Game

We get it, you're back in offseason "trash the team and coach" mode. I'm sure if we win this weekend you'll be back pretending you were on board all along, right?

BlaK-Argentina
11-10-2009, 04:57 PM
We get it, you're back in offseason "trash the team and coach" mode. I'm sure if we win this weekend you'll be back pretending you were on board all along, right?

Nah, it's only Washington. Remember how we needed to prove we were "for real" the first 6 games? Well we have to prove it all over again. You're not allowed to lose if you're "for real".

Hulamau
11-11-2009, 01:34 AM
Let's not forget the nearly 1/3 or $30M in dead money McD had to work with this season. It's remarkable we've done this well considering the amount of GARBAGE shanny left behind.

The only people who have lost touch are the idiots who gave up on this team this team in July. Bunch of bandwagoners.

Amen to that , I love Mock saying it was Josh's Job to get us 'RB and LG' :giggle:,, he brought in Buckhalter as well who has been solid when there is a inch of breathing room and Knowshon will be fine when he can get a little confidence and not have to run directly at Casey Hampton, Woodley, Harrrison, Farrior and Polumalu, or Haloti Ngata, Lewis, Suggs and Reed all day long!

Hamilton has to go this year and we will beef up the interior, but with all the huge influx of new talent you aren't gong to fix every hole the first year. Josh didn't even really know what he has until the first season is played!

Factor in being hamstrung with a $28 million cap hole AND trying to get everyone on the same page with a totally new O and D and all new coaches .. Plus having to switch QBs in mid-stream because the starter spoiled his diapers, and its a miracle we arent 2- 6 as most of you complainer Einsteins predicted!

Josh and Mike and everyone else are learning like mad every week too what they can and cant get from this team. They didn't inherit a well-oiled machine like Tomlin and Harbaugh did.

One of two teams that we should beat the rest of the way will be tougher games than we expect as they improve, and one or two games we think will be nail biters will be easier than we expect as well. We might even lose to KC in Narrowhead or even Washington god forbid, and yet still beat San Diego, the Giants and the Eagles .. or some such combination of unpredictablity and still go 7-1, 6-2 or 5-3 at worst the rest of the way.

We are playing too good on Defense and no way the offense continues to struggle this much against everyone else. They will make adjustments and the line and run game will pick it up going forward. Have a little faith nellies

oubronco
11-11-2009, 06:14 AM
We get it, you're back in offseason "trash the team and coach" mode. I'm sure if we win this weekend you'll be back pretending you were on board all along, right?

Nothing new here Tony I like McD but not to fond of Orton

errand
11-11-2009, 06:30 AM
Yeah Yah yeah Popps.

The offense scored 3 points, the D 7 and saved 14.

The score would of been 35-3 without the D.

So ****ing what? You clowns act as if the Broncos have never played like crap before.

Sometimes you're the bug, other times the windshield....well, we were the bug this time....it happens.

But this team should make the playoffs if it beats the teams they should beat, like KC, Oakland, Washington, and San Diego at home. toss in a NY Giants team that seems to be struggling mightily as well, we could win possibly 11 games.

We're 6-2 when all the "experts" predicted we wouldn't even win 5 games all season. Sheesh!