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bloodsunday
11-09-2009, 09:54 PM
All this sky is falling crap is getting old. We lost 2 games. Big deal. Pittsburgh started 1 - 2. We can overcome.

Think about the schedule we just played:
Dallas 6 - 2
New England 6 - 2
San Diego 5 - 3
Baltimore 4 - 4
Pittsburgh 6 - 2

That's incredible. Be patient. We still have 3 against Oakland and KC and a shot at San Diego at home.

Rohirrim
11-09-2009, 09:55 PM
I can't figure out if it's just chicken little or chicken ****.

That One Guy
11-09-2009, 09:56 PM
What wagon? The "Broncos are going to the SB" wagon? Yeah, it's probably empty at this point.

The "Broncos are gonna beat Washington" wagon is still full though.

Atwater His Ass
11-09-2009, 09:57 PM
well, with noobs like tisfag, and the biggest seller of kool-aid ive ever seen in baja, can you really be surprised the bandwagon is empty?

those of us that have been around for a long time will continue to support this team and also point out the flaws we see. other "fans" will come and go, with no bother to the rest of us.

Que
11-09-2009, 10:00 PM
Oh ya, i'm still on it. Just pissed right now. Just focused on winning the division and probably that's all I should have hoped for at the start. Grrr... I'll be better tomorrow.

bloodsunday
11-09-2009, 10:01 PM
What wagon? The "Broncos are going to the SB" wagon? Yeah, it's probably empty at this point.

If anyone was actually drinking this Kool Aid, they were crazy. First of all, it was waaaayyy too early in the season to start thinking about that stuff. Secondly, this year has already been a huge success in seeing a smooth transition to a new regime. Most of us fans didn't even expect us to win 6 games all season.

Let's sit back and see if they can get better and grow from this. I am optimistic, particularly about the offense. Look how much Matt Cassel improved in the second half of last season.

SoCalBronco
11-09-2009, 10:07 PM
We're still in good shape. We're still set for about 11 wins. Obviously we have flaws, but that's alright. It's hard to reasonably go from expecting 5-11 to being indignant about anything less than 12-4. It is difficult to do that with a straight face.

All of this stuff is gravy, guys. I'm sure Josh will improve the QB position in the offseason. We're a solid club. Not elite, but pretty darn solid and that's good progress for this team. If they can get that OL to transition to the different running schemes (I'm still not convinced that its the best idea to do that, given the strengths of the OL, but on occasion this year they have shown flashes in the run game in the new scheme) and improve at QB, the offense will make great strides.

Atwater His Ass
11-09-2009, 10:08 PM
We're still in good shape. We're still set for about 11 wins. Obviously we have flaws, but that's alright. It's hard to reasonably go from expecting 5-11 to being indignant about anything less than 12-4. It is difficult to do that with a straight face.

All of this stuff is gravy, guys. I'm sure Josh will improve the QB position in the offseason. We're a solid club. Not elite, but pretty darn solid and that's good progress for this team. If they can get that OL to transition to the different running schemes (I'm still not convinced that its the best idea to do that, given the strengths of the OL, but on occasion this year they have shown flashes in the run game in the new scheme) and improve at QB, the offense will make great strides.

I agree that the team is solid in most respects.

But at the most crucial of all positions by a mile in the NFL, we are below average.

Until that gets fixed, or unless we can pull out an '85 bears type defense, this team won't be doing anything.

SJ Bronco
11-09-2009, 10:11 PM
If you lose to the SB champs and a team that has had your number for 10 years, I think your bandwagon ain't broke

Rocket 7
11-09-2009, 10:13 PM
If you lose to the SB champs and a team that has had your number for 10 years, I think your bandwagon ain't broke

Beat them in 2003, 2006, 2007.

bloodsunday
11-09-2009, 10:16 PM
We're still in good shape. We're still set for about 11 wins. Obviously we have flaws, but that's alright. It's hard to reasonably go from expecting 5-11 to being indignant about anything less than 12-4. It is difficult to do that with a straight face.
But some around here seemed "know" we were going to be a 12 - 4 team all along, right? :thumbsup:

We're a solid club. Not elite, but pretty darn solid and that's good progress for this team.

I want to see two things going forward. One, can we actually improve as the season goes on and play quality football in November and December. And two, can we win the "winnable" games. Those are two things that Mike Shanahan coached teams have NOT accomplished the previous 5 years. If we manage to do them, I believe we will be a playoff team. And more importantly I think it shows growth and progress in the right direction for this organization.

Mike Shanahan coached teams would blow games down the stretch to Washington, Oakland, and KC. Let's see if McDaniels can do better.

bpc
11-09-2009, 10:17 PM
Denver's having a great season. You would have to be an idiot not to say that. But call it what it is... we're a great defense, with liabilities at QB, HB, LG and on the special teams. That formula may win you the division but it won't win many playoff games or championships.

Orton is average. Keep him clean and he's great. Wack him and you see what you get, Denver vs. Pittsburgh.

NFLBRONCO
11-09-2009, 10:19 PM
We're still in good shape. We're still set for about 11 wins. Obviously we have flaws, but that's alright. It's hard to reasonably go from expecting 5-11 to being indignant about anything less than 12-4. It is difficult to do that with a straight face.

All of this stuff is gravy, guys. I'm sure Josh will improve the QB position in the offseason. We're a solid club. Not elite, but pretty darn solid and that's good progress for this team. If they can get that OL to transition to the different running schemes (I'm still not convinced that its the best idea to do that, given the strengths of the OL, but on occasion this year they have shown flashes in the run game in the new scheme) and improve at QB, the offense will make great strides.

This is how I feel overall. This team imo needs to upgrade QB G C gamebreaker WR. Hard to win when your longest pass is 15 yds.

bloodsunday
11-09-2009, 10:21 PM
That formula may win you the division but it won't win many playoff games or championships.

You may be right. But you have to ask yourself the following:
1) What was reasonable to expect from this season based on all the changes and the schedule?
2) Has this season been a step forward for the Broncos Organization?

I mean, we are playing with 30% of our salary cap as dead money.

broncocalijohn
11-09-2009, 10:26 PM
I can't figure out if it's just chicken little or chicken ****.

for some it is chicken little, those that were a pain in the ass are of the later and some are both. Count me in for sticking with the team and seeing us in the playoffs which i did not have us at in the beg of the season. So we arent the best in the AFC. Did we need to improve that much for some of the naysayers? If there are less of us, then i can go full speed ahead. Maybe the anti crowd will be back and we can shove more crow down their gullets in a few weeks. After all, Thanksgiving and the Giants game co-inside.

SJ Bronco
11-09-2009, 10:28 PM
Beat them in 2003, 2006, 2007.

good for us, the raiders have beaten us a few times in the past ten years, but I'll still say we dominated them for the past decade. That team knows how to beat us, they always have. Some teams just have trouble beating some teams. you name a team, and I'm willing to bet the fans of that team dread playing at least one team that has their number, Bmore is our bane.

Killericon
11-09-2009, 10:28 PM
If we can beat the Redskins, this season is won or lost against San Diego. If we can't, well, it's already lost.

bpc
11-09-2009, 10:31 PM
You may be right. But you have to ask yourself the following:
1) What was reasonable to expect from this season based on all the changes and the schedule?
2) Has this season been a step forward for the Broncos Organization?

I mean, we are playing with 30% of our salary cap as dead money.

Depends. The season is far from over. Hopefully we finish 12-4, that would be awesome. SD isn't out of the AFC West race by a longshot.

Look at the QB position... we've taken a huge step back in that department to the point where we need to start considering QB's in the 1st round.

Baltimore and Pittsburgh took us behind the woodshed the last two weeks. All franchises have great defenses. What's the difference? Those two franchises have invested in the QB position and Denver is running a pedestrian out there.

When in doubt, a great QB will win EVERY time, especially in the playoffs.

Denver is back at square 1 with their QB situation. We have to draft one, and spend two or three years maturing him.

Sad because we were just completed the maturation of one young QB who went to the pro bowl in just his 2nd full year.

Sucks for our offense.

Hogan11
11-09-2009, 10:34 PM
The spineless shirkers will all run off to their "second teams" like they usually do....time was, that ment Washington (Portis nut garglers), then Houston (remember the "Denver south" garbage) and now it's Chicago. Weak, the entire lot of them.

Steve Sewell
11-09-2009, 10:35 PM
The reason people are all butt hurt right now is because they haven't seen a Broncos win in a month. We had the bye, then a desperate Baltimore team on the road and a very strong Pitt team at home.

We are 6-2 and will beat Washington and San Diego (complete fraud) over the next two weeks.

Broncos4tw
11-09-2009, 10:39 PM
I've been a Bronco fan for I dunno.. 35 years, that's not changing, ever. Screw bandwagon fans. But also screw anyone who tells me a real fan can't call it like it is. You don't need to suck the left nut of everyone on the team if you think they are the wrong players.

I think Orton is serviceable.. as a backup. Honestly... these days, QBs that should be backups are starters. Orton is a backup. Consider Young, who was a backup for many years. Orton should be a backup, we need a franchise QB in here. I think we do roll into the playoffs, but I think the first balanced team we play is going to beat us. Force Orton to beat you, means you have a great shot of winning.

If we had a passing game, we would HAVE a running game. You can open either with the other. If one is severely lacking, they will shut down the other facet and force you to play your weakness. Which has happened two weeks in a row.

A couple 30+ yard passes would magically open that line up, and we'd be able to run. Orton being able to scramble under pressure to make a play (ala Ben), and suddenly, you can't keep doing that.

Atwater His Ass
11-09-2009, 10:40 PM
ignore the last 3 years of history in the afc west and keep calling SD a "fraud".

Bronco Yoda
11-09-2009, 10:49 PM
The Broncos are still playing better than we could have all hoped for. We'll regroup and press forward. KO isn't our long term answer IMO... neither was Cutler.

Let's get some red meat this weak and go 7-2,


Go Broncos!

lostknight
11-09-2009, 10:51 PM
No, not jumping off the bandwagon, but pointing out that the lock has been picked on the weakness of the Broncos. If it doesn't get addressed, it won't just be San Diego, New York and the Colts that squash us in the exact same fashion as tonight and last week.

watermock
11-09-2009, 11:04 PM
27 yards rushing

Tied for 4th since the merger

Steve Sewell
11-09-2009, 11:06 PM
ignore the last 3 years of history in the afc west and keep calling SD a "fraud".

If you think the Broncos are going to lose at home to SD then LOL at you.

Jekyll15Hyde
11-09-2009, 11:10 PM
Just have to accept the reality that we wont be able to deal with big, physical teams on O (and D line to some degree) this year. Those teams hurt us more than usual because Orton MUST have a running game to be successful. He wont put the team on his back to win.

I fully expect McD to gut the interior Oline next year and move fully away from the ZBS.

But this aint supposed to be fixed overnight. I am willing to be patient. In Josh we trust.

Atwater His Ass
11-09-2009, 11:28 PM
If you think the Broncos are going to lose at home to SD then LOL at you.

again, ignore the history of what SD does over the course of a season to what denver does.

you are the very definition of homer in that post.

OBF1
11-09-2009, 11:29 PM
I agree that the team is solid in most respects.

But at the most crucial of all positions by a mile in the NFL, we are below average.

Until that gets fixed, or unless we can pull out an '85 bears type defense, this team won't be doing anything.

I so agree with you finally..... our punter is sucking your balls :thumbs:

Atwater His Ass
11-09-2009, 11:33 PM
how many seasons has SD come from behind to win the divsion?

if you don't know, you don't know what in the hell you are talking about.

bpc
11-09-2009, 11:34 PM
The thing that hinders us against SD is that they have a pro bowl type at QB and we have... well, Orton.

Atwater His Ass
11-09-2009, 11:39 PM
The thing that hinders us against SD is that they have a pro bowl type at QB and we have... well, Orton.

orton is better than any QB we've had since Elway.

Just do an off-season search of the mane for your evidence.

broncocalijohn
11-09-2009, 11:45 PM
The thing that hinders us against SD is that they have a pro bowl type at QB and we have... well, Orton.

seems he did a ok against them in SD. That is one more win that your boy Jay had.

Rocket 7
11-09-2009, 11:47 PM
seems he did a ok against them in SD. That is one more win that your boy Jay had.

Even BVP can make that claim.

broncocalijohn
11-09-2009, 11:52 PM
Even BVP can make that claim.

in SD? I dont even think Brad started that game? If so, Bpc is a Cutler homer so I was comparing our current guy with Jay.

Atwater His Ass
11-09-2009, 11:56 PM
seems he did a ok against them in SD. That is one more win that your boy Jay had.

shouldn't you be bashing some soccer thread or sharing your "widsom" about no limit hold'em?

you don't really belong in a football discussion.

Hulamau
11-10-2009, 12:42 AM
You may be right. But you have to ask yourself the following:
1) What was reasonable to expect from this season based on all the changes and the schedule?
2) Has this season been a step forward for the Broncos Organization?

I mean, we are playing with 30% of our salary cap as dead money.

Yep, its disappointing to see the offense stuck in neutral for two games, and we do have holes to fill. I don't think many realistically considered we had all the pieces of the puzzle after so much change on all levels.

The running game needs to get fixed and part of that is the same fix that will help the pass protection as well .. Hamilton is getting owned lately by the stronger defensive pass rushes.

He can manage against weaker defenses but to compete against the few elite defenses we need to fix our run game first and foremost.

A little more balance and suddenly Orton looks like the better Orton we saw in the first six games as I suspect we will see again for much of the second half of the season.

Orton may not be the answer long term, but I think we can still make the playoffs and with some improvement in offensive consistency in the second half make some noise once we get there.

We have to work hard on the no huddle defense this week too, but in all fairness when the D is on the field so much and the O isn't helping alot against a good offensive team that is so well coached and with a good QB like Ben who makes plays from nothing, its asking alot from any D to keep that up for 60 minutes.

The good news is we don't face any more defenses the rest of the way as stout and consistent as the last two have been. Only New York, Indy, maybe Philly could muster a D performance like that, but only on their very best game.

We must thump Washington next week and then beating SD here in a must win game the following week and we'll make the playoffs and likely still win the division.

Progress the last half is the goal, This is the struggling period we all knew would come ... weather it .. grow from it ... and get better. Beat the teams we should and grab at least two games that are toss ups.

The D is playing easily well enough to be 8-0 if we had some balance on offense to keep them off the field a bit more in the second half. And score some points.

If Orton struggles against lesser opponents too, he'll probably only get a one year tender next year while we draft another QB with the top 8 pick we will get from Chicago :-).

We need to win five of the next 8, including against SD and all is well. 11-6 with the tie-breaker over SD wins this division.

Right now there is ONLY Washington and nothing else matters.

watermock
11-10-2009, 12:50 AM
The problem is we have regressed in all phases, particuliarly in the 4th.

broncocalijohn
11-10-2009, 01:04 AM
shouldn't you be bashing some soccer thread or sharing your "widsom" about no limit hold'em?

you don't really belong in a football discussion.

u wouldnt want to bring up your posts from preseason now, would you? WHo in the hell are you to say if i belong or not? Ive seen exactly what has gone on this year. Maybe my more positive attitude than you gave this year. I dont bash every soccer thread. I enjoyed the NM vs BYU thread very much.

That One Guy
11-10-2009, 06:20 AM
Before the season all anyone wanted was a competitive team.

Just because the team started 6-0 didn't erase that expectation. The Broncos couldn't compete last night once Mendenhall started moving. They fell apart plain and simple.

1st half was sloppily competitive. The 2nd half, not at all.

barryr
11-10-2009, 06:31 AM
The chicken littles are just happy the team has lost a couple of games so can go full force with their idiot crap they started over the summer. None of them even dreamed the team would be 6-2 at this point in the season and were certain that their goldenboy hero Cutler would have the Bears running away with their division. They have downplayed every win and made any loss a sign the end of the season is near.

baja
11-10-2009, 01:29 PM
well, with noobs like tisfag, and the biggest seller of kool-aid ive ever seen in baja, can you really be surprised the bandwagon is empty?

those of us that have been around for a long time will continue to support this team and also point out the flaws we see. other "fans" will come and go, with no bother to the rest of us.

Dude you will notice I have been here 5 years longer than you and I've been on the Bronco band wagon for 35 years so spare me the judgement.

By what reasoning do you include me in your post?

oubronco
11-10-2009, 01:37 PM
If we can beat the Redskins, this season is won or lost against San Diego. If we can't, well, it's already lost.

I'm interested to see if playing the Chuggers for a second time will end up like the Ravens, Steelers or if they can duplicate the first game

Cito Pelon
11-10-2009, 01:49 PM
As long as the Broncs are one of the six best teams in the AFC this year, I'm happy.

Peoples Champ
11-10-2009, 02:02 PM
nope,i will be off the bandwagon if we dont make the playoffs.

55CrushEm
11-10-2009, 02:08 PM
orton is better than any QB we've had since Elway.

Just do an off-season search of the mane for your evidence.

Well, statistically, he IS......

Griese:
Record 27-24 (52.9%)....84.1 passer rating

Plummer:
Record 39-15 (72.2%)....84.3 passer rating

Orton:
Record 6-2 (75%)....88.2 passer rating (before last night 95.5 passer rating)

Just sayin'.........

oubronco
11-10-2009, 02:11 PM
Well, statistically, he IS......

Griese:
Record 27-24 (52.9%)....84.1 passer rating

Plummer:
Record 39-15 (72.2%)....84.3 passer rating

Orton:
Record 6-2 (75%)....88.2 passer rating (before last night 95.5 passer rating)

Just sayin'.........

just wait till he plays 50 games like the other two then compare

DBroncos4life
11-10-2009, 02:59 PM
Well, statistically, he IS......

Griese:
Record 27-24 (52.9%)....84.1 passer rating

Plummer:
Record 39-15 (72.2%)....84.3 passer rating

Orton:
Record 6-2 (75%)....88.2 passer rating (before last night 95.5 passer rating)

Just sayin'.........

Fans are turning on him faster then any Bronco QB in history, but many of us knew that would happen, because fans don't want a average to good QB on the Broncos. We want a full super star in the mold of Elway. Elite QB's like Big Ben can respond to a bad play like his fumble returned for a TD. I knew it was over after he took his team on that 4 play 80 yard drive for a TD. Maybe Cutler will never reach the "Elite" level, not because he doesn't have the talent, he just may lack the other things needed but Orton while he has all the heart and intangibles he just lacks the god given talent to reach that level as well. So we are still going to be searching for the QB of the future which delays us from moving forward.

Old Dude
11-10-2009, 03:57 PM
The regular season's only half over and the Broncos are in great position to make the playoffs.

There's really no telling which teams will be in the best shape seven or eight weeks from now. Injuries will take their miserable toll, just like they do every year, and they won't be spread out evenly. They never are.

All we can really do is to hope the Broncos are in a position to take advantage of things if they manage to stay reasonably healthy.

6-2 at this point is still substantially better than I expected.

Cito Pelon
11-10-2009, 04:04 PM
The regular season's only half over and the Broncos are in great position to make the playoffs.

There's really no telling which teams will be in the best shape seven or eight weeks from now. Injuries will take their miserable toll, just like they do every year, and they won't be spread out evenly. They never are.

All we can really do is to hope the Broncos are in a position to take advantage of things if they manage to stay reasonably healthy.

6-2 at this point is still substantially better than I expected.

So you're saying be patient?

bombay
11-10-2009, 04:08 PM
I love me some Broncos, win or lose, thick and thin.

That said, they need to get back on track Sunday. Washington is a very winnable road game, and a game we now need.

BlaK-Argentina
11-10-2009, 04:56 PM
Never off the bandwagon if such a thing exists. I already said I'd cut my balls off if we lose to Washington so I can't go back now. ;D I'd still be excited for the SD game and any other after that one.
I love the Broncos no matter what but the last two games have been disappointing. We hung in there both weeks till the fourth quarter but the offense has a lot of progress to make in the next few weeks or we're going nowhere in a hurry. The D and STs will not score 14 points every game.

That said, this team is way better than last year's team and we're that much closer to competing for a SB. I love what our new staff has done and I can't wait till they get all the pieces.