House Health Bill is Crap

[Rohirrim]

Why else would Dennis Kucinich (of all people) vote against it? Because he knows a sell-out when he sees one.

What does the insurance industry get out of it? Tens of millions of new customers, courtesy of the mandate and taxpayer subsidies. And not just any kind of customer, but the youngest, healthiest customers -- those least likely to use their insurance. The bill permits insurers to charge twice as much for older people as for younger ones. So older under-65's will be more likely to go without insurance, even if they have to pay fines. That's OK with the industry, since these would be among their sickest customers. (Shouldn't age be considered a pre-existing condition?)

Insurers also won't have to cover those younger people most likely to get sick, because they will tend to use the public option (which is not an "option" at all, but a program projected to cover only 6 million uninsured Americans). So instead of the public option providing competition for the insurance industry, as originally envisioned, it's been turned into a dumping ground for a small number of people whom private insurers would rather not have to cover anyway.

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marcia-angell-md/is-the-house-health-care_b_350190.html&cp

If a similar bill emerges from the Senate and the reconciliation process, and is ultimately passed, what will happen?

First, health costs will continue to skyrocket, even faster than they are now, as taxpayer dollars are pumped into the private sector. The response of payers -- government and employers -- will be to shrink benefits and increase deductibles and co-payments. Yes, more people will have insurance, but it will cover less and less, and be more expensive to use.


Did you ever get the feeling that you are sitting at the poker table and can't figure out who the sucker is? Ha!

Here's the funny thing; Whatever paltry benefits to the American people that even exist in this bill will be stripped out or neutered by the Senate. You can bet on it. At the end of this process you know what you will see? The insurance companies popping champagne corks. Just watch.

[Rohirrim]

• Although the public option has been the target of intense controversy, it will play a negligible role in health care reform. The CBO has concluded that it would cover no more than 6 million Americans, just two percent of the population, in 2013, and will cost more than private programs, mostly due to adverse selection in attracting sicker individuals and its inability to set reimbursement rates for physicians and hospitals as is done by Medicare. Moreover, middle-income families may be required to spend 15 to 18 percent of their income on insurance premiums and co-payments.

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/11/05/health-care-reform-2009-no-bill-is-better-than-a-bad-bill/

• Buried in the fine print of this monster bill are many provisions that will benefit corporate stakeholders in the medical industrial complex on the backs of patients and their families. These examples make the point:

[Rohirrim]

Have you seen a single insurance industry ad attacking the house "reform" bill?


crickets...


And you won't. Why? It's a massive giveaway to the insurance industry. They love it.

[sirhcyennek81]

Kind of explains why the house and senate oppose cross state line competition for health care...

:Broncos:

[Seamus]

That is why this behemoth was passed late on a Saturday night. It is a sad thing to think the biggest obstacle was paid for abortions, that there wasn't one representative who took into consideration their constitutes to provide something that might benefit them.

Nope, big pharma, AARP (who sells insurance), some in the medical field have all been bought off to support this 2,000+ piece pages of garbage.

Why expect something other than that from Pelosi who is also responsible for pushing TARP? Yea that expensive program is paying off also, glad it needed to be done to keep unemployment rate under 8%. Yes I believe in a jobless recovery and that my insurance company will have my back when medical issues arise.

[Broncojef]

CONGRESS BEWARE….. “WE THE PEOPLE” ARE WATCHING.
WE’LL SEE YOU AT THE NEXT ELECTION.

To the Congress:

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have
had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor"; it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - you've had 44 years to get it right; they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - you have had 39 years to get it right; it is broke.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009.... none show any signs of working, although ACORN appears to have found a new source: the American taxpayer.

"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in
2009! It took cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on failed experiments.

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that "services" you shove down our throats are failing faster and faster, you want Americans to believe you can be trusted with a government-run health care system?

20% of our entire economy?

With all due respect, Are you crazy?

[Garcia Bronco]

Of course it's a trash bill. It's a trash bill because Government shouldn't be getting involved. It's all ****ed up from government getting involved in the first place.

[Rohirrim]

Of course it's a trash bill. It's a trash bill because Government shouldn't be getting involved. It's all ****ed up from government getting involved in the first place.

You would have loved the age of the robber barons, when government was not involved and corporate giants had free rein. The American people were serfs. I keep asking the same question; Why does the Right think it is perfectly acceptable to have a divided government of competing interests in order to control avarice, but on the other hand, also believes that business interests should not be regulated to control their greed? I guess they just don't get what just happened: Glass-Steagle was erased, and the modern robber barons turned our economy into a giant betting parlor which their uncontrolled greed destroyed. Is it getting through to ya?

Anyway, this is a trash bill because it insures only 6 million uninsured Americans (that the insurance companies didn't want on their books anyway) and simply forces forty million Americans to go buy health insurance while doing nothing to control prices. Not only that, it takes tax payer money and feeds it to the companies through forced subsidies. How would you like to be in a business and have government mandate you 40 million new customers with no price controls? Party time! I expect rates to go up another 20%. After all, those CEOs need new palaces.

[Dukes]

The funny part is when this bill fails, Dems will blame Republicans

[Rohirrim]

The funny part is when this bill fails, Dems will blame Republicans

The republicans have done absolutely nothing but act like petulant children. They should be ashamed.

[Rohirrim]

Now that I think about it, twenty years ago, this would have been a Republican bill. Ha!

[Dukes]

The republicans have done absolutely nothing but act like petulant children. They should be ashamed.

Because it's total crap. That's what happens when horrible ideas are the only ideas being considered.

[Garcia Bronco]

You would have loved the age of the robber barons, when government was not involved and corporate giants had free rein.

LOL....as if it's any different today.

[Garcia Bronco]

What the Pelosi Health-Care Bill Really Says
Here are some important passages in the 2,000 page legislation.
http://online.wsj.com/article...

What the government will require you to do:

• Sec. 202 (p. 91-92) of the bill requires you to enroll in a "qualified plan." If you get your insurance at work, your employer will have a "grace period" to switch you to a "qualified plan," meaning a plan designed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you buy your own insurance, there's no grace period. You'll have to enroll in a qualified plan as soon as any term in your contract changes, such as the co-pay, deductible or benefit.

• Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

• Sec. 303 (pp. 167-168) makes it clear that, although the "qualified plan" is not yet designed, it will be of the "one size fits all" variety. The bill claims to offer choice—basic, enhanced and premium levels—but the benefits are the same. Only the co-pays and deductibles differ. You will have to enroll in the same plan, whether the government is paying for it or you and your employer are footing the bill.

• Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.


• Sec. 412 (p. 272) says that employers must provide a "qualified plan" for their employees and pay 72.5% of the cost, and a smaller share of family coverage, or incur an 8% payroll tax. Small businesses, with payrolls from $500,000 to $750,000, are fined less.

Eviscerating Medicare:
In addition to reducing future Medicare funding by an estimated $500 billion, the bill fundamentally changes how Medicare pays doctors and hospitals, permitting the government to dictate treatment decisions.

• Sec. 1302 (pp. 672-692) moves Medicare from a fee-for-service payment system, in which patients choose which doctors to see and doctors are paid for each service they provide, toward what's called a "medical home." The medical home is this decade's version of HMO-restrictions on care.

• Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.

• Secs. 1158-1160 (pp. 499-520) initiates programs to reduce payments for patient care to what it costs in the lowest cost regions of the country. This will reduce payments for care (and by implication the standard of care) for hospital patients in higher cost areas such as New York and Florida.

• Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20% of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.

• Sec. 1402 (p. 756) says that the results of comparative effectiveness research conducted by the government will be delivered to doctors electronically to guide their use of "medical items and services."

Questionable Priorities:
While the bill will slash Medicare funding, it will also direct billions of dollars to numerous inner-city social work and diversity programs with vague standards of accountability.

• Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community "entities" with no required qualifications except having "documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers" to "educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities" aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity. "Each community health worker program receiving funds under the grant will provide services in the cultural context most appropriate for the individual served by the program."

These programs will "enhance the capacity of individuals to utilize health services and health related social services under Federal, State and local programs by assisting individuals in establishing eligibility . . . and in receiving services and other benefits" including transportation and translation services.

• Sec. 222 (p. 617) provides reimbursement for culturally and linguistically appropriate services. This program will train health-care workers to inform Medicare beneficiaries of their "right" to have an interpreter at all times and with no co-pays for language services.

• Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs. For example, grants for nursing schools should "give preference to programs that provide for improving the diversity of new nurse graduates to reflect changes in the demographics of the patient population." And secondary-school grants should go to schools "graduating students from disadvantaged backgrounds including racial and ethnic minorities."

• Sec. 305 (p. 189) Provides for automatic Medicaid enrollment of newborns who do not otherwise have insurance.

[baja]

If the Insurance companies are not against it not only should you smell a rat you should taste it too.

[Dukes]

Aparently the only way out of this disaster is to be a member of congress. Anyone wanna donate to my campaign in 2010?

[Rohirrim]

All they had to do is open Medicare to all. Simple.

[Rohirrim]

Who else but government could come up with this:

There are poor people out there who can't afford health insurance...

Solution?

Fine them.

Ha!

[Garcia Bronco]

aparently the only way out of this disaster is to be a member of congress. Anyone wanna donate to my campaign in 2010?

lol

[sirhcyennek81]

Now that I think about it, twenty years ago, this would have been a Republican bill. Ha!


20 Years ago the US had a repubican president and a congress with democrat majorities.


:Broncos:

[Mr.Meanie]

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

If that's true, that's absolutely insane! What the hell is going on here?

[sirhcyennek81]

The republicans have done absolutely nothing but act like petulant children. They should be ashamed.


Odd. Democrats in the senate push for a reconcilliation vote to crush debate. They wont accept republican imput (150+ repubican amendments to the house bill were rejected) and the last time the President met with the house minority leaders, it was February.


:Broncos:

[Rohirrim]

Odd. Democrats in the senate push for a reconcilliation vote to crush debate. They wont accept republican imput (150+ repubican amendments to the house bill were rejected) and the last time the President met with the house minority leaders, it was February.


:Broncos:

Stop being cute. You know what the truth is. Every one of those amendments were bill killers and designed to be nothing more than bill killers. The republican caucus has made it evident to everyone over the last eleven months that they have no other agenda but obstructionism. Why should anyone waste time extending any more olive branches? Pointless.

The republicans are committed to the same philosophy they exercised under Bush: My way or the highway.

[Garcia Bronco]

If that's true, that's absolutely insane! What the hell is going on here?

It's an article I found on another board, but if true it's as you say.

[Dukes]

The republicans are committed to the same philosophy they exercised under Bush: My way or the highway.

Only works for those in charge. That's exactly what the left has done with this bill.

[frerottenextelway]

I listened to Kucinich on Amy Goodman's Democracy Now show and he voted against it because they took out his state single-payer admenment.

Kucinich is a moron and an ass, there's a reason why he's failed Cleveland so horribly. I swear to God he would've voted no on MC and SS as it was originally written back then, as would other "purists" who have a bigger desire to complain and applaud their own purism than to achieve something worthwhile.

[Rohirrim]

I listened to Kucinich on Amy Goodman's Democracy Now show and he voted against it because they took out his state single-payer admenment.

Kucinich is a moron and an ass, there's a reason why he's failed Cleveland so horribly. I swear to God he would've voted no on MC and SS as it was originally written back then, as would other "purists" who have a bigger desire to complain and applaud their own purism than to achieve something worthwhile.

All I can say is :bs: Your party loyalty is admirable, though misguided.

[Garcia Bronco]

I listened to Kucinich on Amy Goodman's Democracy Now show and he voted against it because they took out his state single-payer admenment.

Kucinich is a moron and an ass, there's a reason why he's failed Cleveland so horribly. I swear to God he would've voted no on MC and SS as it was originally written back then, as would other "purists" who have a bigger desire to complain and applaud their own purism than to achieve something worthwhile.

Dude...this bill is absolute **** and isn't about providing healthcare, but to control the people of the US and take over more wealth.

[frerottenextelway]

All I can say is :bs: Your party loyalty is admirable, though misguided.

Thanks, although I'm far closer to someone like Bernie Sanders in my views than mainstream Democrats.

You're welcome to listen to Dennis is his own words if you want to, it's available on iTunes . He would've voted for the bill if they didn't take out his state single-payer option, in his own words.

Serious question though, would you have voted for SS that only covered select people and not people like farm workers, doctors, lawyers, or even government workers? That would be D.O.A. in Kookcinichville.

[frerottenextelway]

Dude...this bill is absolute **** and isn't about providing healthcare, but to control the people of the US and take over more wealth.

The only part of the bill that is controlling people is the anti-choice amendment (which seems to be illegal to me).