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Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 02:43 PM
So far, three shooters counted, one still on the loose. Terrorist attack?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html?test=latestnews

crush17
11-05-2009, 02:44 PM
7 people confirmed dead, over 30 wounded.

How the hell does this happen at a MILITARY BASE??

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 02:45 PM
7 people confirmed dead, over 30 wounded.

How the hell does this happen at a MILITARY BASE??

That's one of the reasons I suspect this is a terrorist attack. Plus, there are reported to be three shooters, which tosses out the one, lone maniac theory.

Hogan11
11-05-2009, 02:46 PM
Terrible...just terrible

Tombstone RJ
11-05-2009, 02:48 PM
I hate these stories...

Hogan11
11-05-2009, 02:49 PM
That's one of the reasons I suspect this is a terrorist attack. Plus, there are reported to be three shooters, which tosses out the one, lone maniac theory.

More than one is an official conspiracy, correct?

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 02:50 PM
7 people confirmed dead, over 30 wounded.

How the hell does this happen at a MILITARY BASE??

Because the only people who are armed on a military base are the MPs.

Lev Vyvanse
11-05-2009, 02:51 PM
That's one of the reasons I suspect this is a terrorist attack. Plus, there are reported to be three shooters, which tosses out the one, lone maniac theory.

From your link:
"The men were reportedly dressed in Army fatigues"

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 02:52 PM
The FBI said they don't believe terrorism was involved.

That's from the Fox report.

missingnumber7
11-05-2009, 02:52 PM
That's one of the reasons I suspect this is a terrorist attack. Plus, there are reported to be three shooters, which tosses out the one, lone maniac theory.

With PTSD being a true and very real problem for many soldiers and this being a place where soldiers make repeated trips to both Iraq and Afghanistan the word Maniac is probably the most inappropriate word that could be used.

Bronx33
11-05-2009, 02:53 PM
****!!

crush17
11-05-2009, 02:55 PM
Press conference right now, said the shooters/planners were all soldiers. Terrible.

Bronx33
11-05-2009, 02:57 PM
why?

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 03:00 PM
Damn. I sure hope this doesn't boil down to our own guys losing it. If it has anything to do with multiple deployments, this will launch a political firestorm.

Bronx33
11-05-2009, 03:01 PM
death toll up too 12..

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 03:01 PM
With PTSD being a true and very real problem for many soldiers and this being a place where soldiers make repeated trips to both Iraq and Afghanistan the word Maniac is probably the most inappropriate word that could be used.

I figure any time somebody whips out a gun and starts indiscriminately shooting people, it's a maniac.

missingnumber7
11-05-2009, 03:10 PM
I figure any time somebody whips out a gun and starts indiscriminately shooting people, it's a maniac.

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder/Disease is a very real very frightening thing. It can make a soldier think that they are in danger all the time, have feelings like they are back in the tramatic situation again.

Maniac is not the proper word. Your last post was more on point. Soldiers who have been deployed into high optempo situations where they are in shootouts on daily basis for a year come back for 6-9 months and then start doing realistic training for their next deployment. These things will strike up bad memories, make people think they aren't where they are. I'm not making excuses for what was done, but we are reducing the size of our military and increasing the amount of deployments for those fewer soldiers, all the while having trouble retaining and caring for those who are still with us. The very real part of being in the military today.

PTSD is a very scary thing...I might have a very mild case of it, but it still shakes me up every now and then and makes me forget who I am and who I am dealing with.

Garcia Bronco
11-05-2009, 03:12 PM
Damn. I sure hope this doesn't boil down to our own guys losing it. If it has anything to do with multiple deployments, this will launch a political firestorm.

Good. **** for brains Obama needs to commit in that country or get the hell out. He is using it as a political football.

missingnumber7
11-05-2009, 03:14 PM
He is using it as a political football.

Thats all Soldiers ever get treated as...Senators do it all the time as well...the last administration was just as bad...we who put the uniform on are just political pawns.

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 03:17 PM
Latest report: One dead, two in custody.

Pony Boy
11-05-2009, 03:26 PM
The suspected gunman was identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan. He was killed and two other suspects have been apprehended

crush17
11-05-2009, 03:29 PM
The suspected gunman was identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan. He was killed and two other suspects have been apprehended

Site your source please!!

Pony Boy
11-05-2009, 03:32 PM
Site your source please!!

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938

Also: http://www.drudgereport.com/

HILife
11-05-2009, 03:33 PM
This is awful.

crush17
11-05-2009, 03:35 PM
he posted it up. i found it right after he said it too. sure hope there's no relation...

Pony Boy
11-05-2009, 03:36 PM
Where are you getting your info. Link? No suspect has been named anywhere that I have seen.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938

You can link to most major sourses through: http://www.drudgereport.com/

gunns
11-05-2009, 03:38 PM
The article says they have an Army Major in custody.

Flex Gunmetal
11-05-2009, 03:39 PM
Good. **** for brains Obama needs to commit in that country or get the hell out. He is using it as a political football.
I know. To think he hasn't ended the war that we enjoyed for the better part of two terms under the last administration. He's been in office almost an entire year!! The nerve!

Stay on topic unless you have a relevant point.

Hotrod
11-05-2009, 03:47 PM
I know. To think he hasn't ended the war that we enjoyed for the better part of two terms under the last administration. He's been in office almost an entire year!! The nerve!

Stay on topic unless you have a relevant point.

Im pretty sure the point is Obama is more of a pussy then Clinton was.

There I said it.

Pony Boy
11-05-2009, 03:48 PM
[QUOTE=Flex Gunmetal;2631006]I know. To think he hasn't ended the war that we enjoyed for the better part of two terms under the last administration. He's been in office almost an entire year!! The nerve!/QUOTE]

The morale among servicemen of the armed forces is at an all time low and that has to go to the Commander-in-Chief.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 03:50 PM
What a terrible tragedy.

Flex Gunmetal
11-05-2009, 03:51 PM
I know. To think he hasn't ended the war that we enjoyed for the better part of two terms under the last administration. He's been in office almost an entire year!! The nerve!

The morale among servicemen of the armed forces is at an all time low and that has to go to the Commander-in-Chief.

Solid point. I just find it funny a lot of republicans blame obama for not fixing the mess it took GB 6.5 years to create in less than a year.

That said, this is a tragedy. I heard an Army Major is in custody.

gunns
11-05-2009, 03:54 PM
[QUOTE=Flex Gunmetal;2631006]I know. To think he hasn't ended the war that we enjoyed for the better part of two terms under the last administration. He's been in office almost an entire year!! The nerve!/QUOTE]

The morale among servicemen of the armed forces is at an all time low and that has to go to the Commander-in-Chief.

Well, to give the opinion of one military serviceman who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and is going to Korea tomorrow for a year, he thanks Obama for a raise finally, and any low morale has to do with Bush and all the guys that didn't come home. He says Obama hasn't served long enough to blame for much of anything. Cracks him up they want Obama to hurry, but waited patiently for 5 years while Bush ****ed things up. And his response to McDortoh is he'll take pussy over idiot anyday.

Anyway, he also says he's praying for the dead's families and the wounded. I am also, such a tragedy.

gyldenlove
11-05-2009, 03:55 PM
Im pretty sure the point is Obama is more of a p***Y then Clinton was.

There I said it.

Clinton got more pussy than Obama does.

Broncoman13
11-05-2009, 03:56 PM
he posted it up. i found it right after he said it too. sure hope there's no relation...

No relation to what?

Pony Boy
11-05-2009, 03:59 PM
Solid point. I just find it funny a lot of republicans blame obama for not fixing the mess it took GB 6.5 years to create in less than a year.

That said, this is a tragedy. I heard an Army Major is in custody.

Yes, this is a tragedy and I hate the sick feeling I get deep down in my stomach when this stuff happens. Not a time for blame but a time to stick together......

Bronx33
11-05-2009, 04:04 PM
It's official Major Malik Nadal Hasan was a shooter just heard it from the commander of fort hood.

SoDak Bronco
11-05-2009, 04:13 PM
Prayers to the families of all involved

ant1999e
11-05-2009, 04:22 PM
Well, to give the opinion of one military serviceman who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and is going to Korea tomorrow for a year, he thanks Obama for a raise finally, and any low morale has to do with Bush and all the guys that didn't come home. He says Obama hasn't served long enough to blame for much of anything. Cracks him up they want Obama to hurry, but waited patiently for 5 years while Bush ****ed things up. And his response to McDortoh is he'll take p***Y over idiot anyday.

Anyway, he also says he's praying for the dead's families and the wounded. I am also, such a tragedy.

That's funny. We get a raise every year. The low morale has to do with us being tired of spending our holidays over there. It's not Obama's fault but he can change it.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 04:25 PM
That's funny. We get a raise every year. The low morale has to do with us being tired of spending our holidays over there. It's not Obama's fault but he can change it.

I hope that he pulls out all of you guys----I know he doesn't have the political cojones to go ALL IN--so why throw a 50 foot rope to a person who is adrift 100ft out in the river? TAKE THEM HOME OBAMA!

TexanBob
11-05-2009, 04:28 PM
This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. I doubt the shooters checked anyone's voter registration cards before shooting.

I just hope we get the honest truth from the Army and not some politically-correct whitewash. I still have some questions unanswered.

Sad for the wounded, the families and friends of the servicemen. Pray for them.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 04:30 PM
It has been announced that the shooter was a psychiatrist--certainly some Irony there.......

OABB
11-05-2009, 04:35 PM
terrible tragedy...

Now if there was only some way to use it to blame Obama....hmmm.

Oh, to late.

some aholes have already sunken to such a low...

It's a ****ing terrible shooting, keep your political bias in your ****brains where it belongs.

Christ the nerve of some of you.

gunns
11-05-2009, 04:38 PM
It has been announced that the shooter was a psychiatrist--certainly some Irony there.......

That's what I thought also. And around a center where troops are being readied to deploy or coming home. I can't imagine anything sadder than a serviceman being killed upon coming home after serving a year, 15 months, anytime overseas. Just tragic.

Archer81
11-05-2009, 04:40 PM
Those poor people. Prayers for them and their families.


:Broncos:

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 04:41 PM
I just was listening to a report that the major had been very upset about being redeployed and was complaining about it.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 04:43 PM
That's what I thought also. And around a center where troops are being readied to deploy or coming home. I can't imagine anything sadder than a serviceman being killed upon coming home after serving a year, 15 months, anytime overseas. Just tragic.

and they were completely unarmed too...VERY tragic and it speaks to an even greater degree to the lack of integrity that this 'psychiatrist' possessed--to take on unarmed soldiers............

watermock
11-05-2009, 04:45 PM
3 words:

Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan

lex
11-05-2009, 04:46 PM
It will be interesting to see how much of his background ties into this and how much PC will get in the way of scrutinizing certain dynamics that should be looked at.

Archer81
11-05-2009, 04:47 PM
It will be interesting to see how much of his background ties into this and how much PC will get in the way of scrutinizing certain dynamics that should be looked at.


+1.


:Broncos:

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 04:49 PM
It will be interesting to see how much of his background ties into this and how much PC will get in the way of scrutinizing certain dynamics that should be looked at.

I've been flipping around to different channels and they are bending over sideways and backwards not to mention the obvious.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 04:50 PM
3 words:

That's not cool---and plus we are still awaiting the capture of another suspect--per a General on NBC news--they have released the other 2 people who were taken into custody but are still pursuing this other suspect..........no description was given.........

Archer81
11-05-2009, 04:51 PM
That's not cool---and plus we are still awaiting the capture of another suspect--per a General on NBC news--they have released the other 2 people who were taken into custody but are still pursuing this other suspect..........no description was given.........


Until proven otherwise, you cannot rule out a terror attack by muslim soldiers.


:Broncos:

OrangeRising
11-05-2009, 04:53 PM
3 words:

Quote:
Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan

Yes. That immediately makes me wonder about a whole host of possibilities, none of them fair, but still..

lex
11-05-2009, 04:53 PM
BTW, just to put it out there, I wasnt referring to terrorism.

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 04:53 PM
Here's his pic:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/t1main.gunman.site.jpg

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 04:57 PM
Here's his pic:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/t1main.gunman.site.jpg

I feel bad for the soldiers he murdered and just as bad for any potential wife and children that this guy may have..........he will forever be known as a gutless murderer of America's finest--and if anyone should be aware of the psychological ramifications of such an act--it would be a psychiatrist---hopefully this guy doesn't have any children........

watermock
11-05-2009, 05:02 PM
That's not cool---and plus we are still awaiting the capture of another suspect--per a General on NBC news--they have released the other 2 people who were taken into custody but are still pursuing this other suspect..........no description was given.........

I don't care if it's "cool".

Remember WW2? Unless your too PC to realize it, we interned German and Japanese during the last global war, and this is a religious war to much more, at least to the enemy.

lex
11-05-2009, 05:03 PM
It will be interesting to see what kind of coverage this gets. Rarely does the military brass trust "america's finest" to speak openly and candidly about anything happened while doing military business.

Theyre probably going to brief them on what to say and what to expect very soon.

Drunk Monkey
11-05-2009, 05:10 PM
This is crazy, I was at Ft Hood today and left probably right after this happened. Had no idea anything was going on until our wives started calling to see if we were ok. We were on base doing some competitive shopping at the PX (we sell merchandise to the Army and Navy). I could have sworn we left at 1:50 but they said they locked the base. Crazy.

DomCasual
11-05-2009, 05:10 PM
I just never believe how selfish this whole deal is. Assuming he's just some guy that snapped - just swallow a bottle of pills, or jump off a building, or put a gun in your mouth. There are hundreds of lives that are directly and dramatically hurt now. What a narcissist one must be to do this.

lex
11-05-2009, 05:12 PM
I don't care if it's "cool".

Remember WW2? Unless your too PC to realize it, we interned German and Japanese during the last global war, and this is a religious war to much more, at least to the enemy.

Its interesting. The military has PT tests. Theres more than one reason for this but the biggest ones you run across are that it helps physical appearance but also that it gives someone a decent chance to handle him/herself in combat when things get hot and heavy. So, then if its to help in a "live bullets" scenario, why do they have different standards for PT test based on age and sex? When youre in combat, the bad guys arent going to cut you a break because youre over 35 or because youre a female.

I remember when the whole Jessica Lynch thing happened. No one really wanted to touch this issue. Its too much of a political (namely a PC) hot potato.

So, you are going to insist that having soldiers whose background/believe might be contra to the cause isnt a problem. This isnt the first time this happened and its not like other demographics dont snap and have spree killings but more recently the ration seems kind of high for the demographic in play here regarding situations like this. But whats probably going to happen is that there will be those who will try to get out in front of this by labelling it as something different and instead of admitting that people might have died for PC, theyd rather put it in a way that will suggest they died for "protecting freedom" instead of PC stupidity.

anon
11-05-2009, 05:28 PM
I don't care if it's "cool".

Remember WW2? Unless your too PC to realize it, we interned German and Japanese during the last global war, and this is a religious war to much more, at least to the enemy.

And that wasn't exactly America's finest moment. It's difficult to claim to stand for freedom, liberty, and the rule of law when we arbitrarily revoke rights based on some perceived necessity or convenience. It has nothing to do with being PC.

What are the "rights of an American Citizen" if they are not consistently protected, regardless of circumstance?

oubronco
11-05-2009, 05:28 PM
The suspected gunman was identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan. He was killed and two other suspects have been apprehended

if that doesn't shed some light on it

lex
11-05-2009, 05:32 PM
And that wasn't exactly America's finest moment. It's difficult to claim to stand for freedom, liberty, and the rule of law when we arbitrarily revoke rights based on some perceived necessity or convenience. It has nothing to do with being PC.

What are the "rights of an American Citizen" if they are not consistently protected, regardless of circumstance?

I guess youre not worried about the rights of the dead. Theyre dead, they dont matter, right?

gunns
11-05-2009, 05:32 PM
He had asked not to be deployed and he was being deployed. Kind of explains the location of the shooting. Also something about being called names lately. I didn't get all that.

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 05:33 PM
His cousin just gave a long interview to Shepard Smith. He said Hassan has been Muslim his whole life. He was born and raised in the U.S. Spent his whole life in Roanoke, VA. He had been expressing that he had been constantly harassed about his name and ethnicity and was totally opposed to being deployed. He wanted out of the military and had hired a lawyer to represent him.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 05:34 PM
I don't care if it's "cool".

Remember WW2? Unless your too PC to realize it, we interned German and Japanese during the last global war, and this is a religious war to much more, at least to the enemy.

and Italians............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_American_internment

Terrorism cannot be ruled out--but I doubt it.

Archer81
11-05-2009, 05:34 PM
And that wasn't exactly America's finest moment. It's difficult to claim to stand for freedom, liberty, and the rule of law when we arbitrarily revoke rights based on some perceived necessity or convenience. It has nothing to do with being PC.

What are the "rights of an American Citizen" if they are not consistently protected, regardless of circumstance?


Wartime tends to force extremes. Lincoln suspended civil liberties to save the Union. FDR reacted by interning Japanese immigrants. You could argue the extreme situations both presidents faced warranted the overreaction.


:Broncos:

Pseudofool
11-05-2009, 05:37 PM
What's interesting* is how so many use any tragedy as credible evidence for their fringe world view.

*By interesting, I mean disturbing.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 05:37 PM
His cousin just gave a long interview to Shepard Smith. He said Hassan has been Muslim his whole life. He was born and raised in the U.S. Spent his whole life in Roanoke, VA. He had been expressing that he had been constantly harassed about his name and ethnicity and was totally opposed to being deployed. He wanted out of the military and had hired a lawyer to represent him.

WHO KNEW! Roh's channel of choice is the 'fair & balanced'! What's the matter--don't trust Chris Matthews? :rofl:

Wanted out of the military??--UMM..it's a VOLUNTEER FORCE--too ****ing BAD! He signed a CONTRACT and was given his education THROUGH THE MILITARY. What an ungrateful pussy.

Pseudofool
11-05-2009, 05:38 PM
Terrorism cannot be ruled out--but I doubt it.
Neither can Aliens, Cylons, or the Purple Eater. We just don't know yet.

lex
11-05-2009, 05:40 PM
What's interesting* is how so many use any tragedy as credible evidence for their fringe world view.

*By interesting, I mean disturbing.

No, whats interesting is how readily people try to sweep things under the rug. And, btw, "fringe world view" is an obvious euphemism for not following the crowd.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 05:44 PM
Its interesting. The military has PT tests. Theres more than one reason for this but the biggest ones you run across are that it helps physical appearance but also that it gives someone a decent chance to handle him/herself in combat when things get hot and heavy. So, then if its to help in a "live bullets" scenario, why do they have different standards for PT test based on age and sex? When youre in combat, the bad guys arent going to cut you a break because youre over 35 or because youre a female.

I remember when the whole Jessica Lynch thing happened. No one really wanted to touch this issue. Its too much of a political (namely a PC) hot potato.

So, you are going to insist that having soldiers whose background/believe might be contra to the cause isnt a problem. This isnt the first time this happened and its not like other demographics dont snap and have spree killings but more recently the ration seems kind of high for the demographic in play here regarding situations like this. But whats probably going to happen is that there will be those who will try to get out in front of this by labelling it as something different and instead of admitting that people might have died for PC, theyd rather put it in a way that will suggest they died for "protecting freedom" instead of PC stupidity.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are saying we shouldn't allow people with arab sounding names enlist or be commissioned because they might have terrorist connections. This would be the same idea as the internment camps in WWII.

Basically open enlistment has nothing to do with being 'PC' but with allowing people who wish to serve their country a chance to do so. We even have non-citizens in our armed forces. I say if someone wants to join up, let'em. We can use the help (2 of my best guys are non-citizens).

These guys didn't have to be military to make the attack. If someone wants to make an attack, they can do it. It is easy to get weapons on base. Hell, pizza delivery guys come aboard mine every day.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 05:44 PM
Neither can Aliens, Cylons, or the Purple Eater. We just don't know yet.

Well, the picture has already been partially painted by the media reports that this was an INDIVIDUAL who had spoken out openly against being deployed--who according to the new reports, had recently received orders to deploy--and now he acts out like a raging narcissistic murderous coward....I am leaning towards this being nothing more than a guy snapping due to his personal 'circumstance'--and not an act of ISLAMIC terrorism........I haven't read/seen/heard anything on aliens, cylons or purple eaters.....

Lev Vyvanse
11-05-2009, 05:50 PM
Well, the picture has already been partially painted by the media reports that this was an INDIVIDUAL who had spoken out openly against being deployed--who according to the new reports, had recently received orders to deploy--and now he acts out like a raging narcissistic murderous coward....I am leaning towards this being nothing more than a guy snapping due to his personal 'circumstance'--and not an act of ISLAMIC terrorism........I haven't read/seen/heard anything on aliens, cylons or purple eaters.....

But his name is Hasan how much evidence do you need?

lex
11-05-2009, 05:52 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are saying we shouldn't allow people with arab sounding names enlist or be commissioned because they might have terrorist connections. This would be the same idea as the internment camps in WWII.

Im not saying that at all. Im saying that an open discussion needs to take place about this and that it needs to be scrutinized and not be swept under the carpet out of PC lust. It cant be easy being muslim in the military. Its hard enough as it is. Examining the additional issues and risks that come with that should be acknowledged.

Basically open enlistment has nothing to do with being 'PC' but with allowing people who wish to serve their country a chance to do so. We even have non-citizens in our armed forces. I say if someone wants to join up, let'em. We can use the help (2 of my best guys are non-citizens).

Its not exactly open enlistment. Not everyone can be admitted to the military, although they may have lowered their standards so to meet numbers. When the economy was better, they were letting people in who had psychological problems and even people who didnt have all their toes when 5 years before they people were being refused admittance based on having flat feet.

These guys didn't have to be military to make the attack. If someone wants to make an attack, they can do it. It is easy to get weapons on base. Hell, pizza delivery guys come aboard mine every day.

Being in the military involves stresses that arent seen elsewhere. To suggest otherwise is silly.


In bold

Rock Chalk
11-05-2009, 05:54 PM
And that wasn't exactly America's finest moment. It's difficult to claim to stand for freedom, liberty, and the rule of law when we arbitrarily revoke rights based on some perceived necessity or convenience. It has nothing to do with being PC.

What are the "rights of an American Citizen" if they are not consistently protected, regardless of circumstance?

Agreed.

Whats worse, is that the interned Japanese were never even given their property back afterwards.

Many of those Japanese had been Americans for 3 generations.

Back to the topic at hand however, this Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan, if they dont at least LOOK into his past, then something is very wrong with the level of PC in this country.

Pseudofool
11-05-2009, 05:58 PM
No, whats interesting is how readily people try to sweep things under the rug. And, btw, "fringe world view" is an obvious euphemism for not following the crowd.Meh. I don't think much is being swept (or will be swept) by the media avoiding the whole ethnicity issue. And I think it's no great insight to point out the ridiculous ends with which media attempts political correctness--in fact, in light of such a horrific tragedy, such an insight seems petty, eager, and yes, fringe.

Rock Chalk
11-05-2009, 05:58 PM
Wartime tends to force extremes. Lincoln suspended civil liberties to save the Union. FDR reacted by interning Japanese immigrants. You could argue the extreme situations both presidents faced warranted the overreaction.


:Broncos:

That's a dangerous line and one I hope our government doesn't cross again.

If they can restrict it in the name of "[insert event]" whats to stop them from restricting civil liberties for any event? Warranted or not.

Seriously, that **** is worth fighting a revolution over.

lex
11-05-2009, 05:59 PM
Meh. I don't think much is being swept (or will be swept) by the media avoiding the whole ethnicity issue. And I think it's no great insight to point out the ridiculousness ends with which media attempts political correctness--in fact, in light of such a horrific tragedy, such an insight seems petty, eager, and yes, fringe.

Glop, glop, glop.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 05:59 PM
But his name is Hasan how much evidence do you need?

Your sarcasm is lacking--I told you to have your 'shrenk' prescribe Adderall XR......a nice mix of enantiomers........

houghtam
11-05-2009, 06:08 PM
The idiocy and hypocrasy of some of you never ceases to amaze me. It also makes me laugh (or cry), since if the shoe were on the other foot and someone were talking about locking up someone of your background, you'd be screaming your fool heads off.

It's not being "politically correct" to expect all citizens' rights to be respected, it's called patriotism. To even enter that in the discussion is, in a word, shameful.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 06:11 PM
Im not saying that at all. Im saying that an open discussion needs to take place about this and that it needs to be scrutinized and not be swept under the carpet out of PC lust. It cant be easy being muslim in the military. Its hard enough as it is. Examining the additional issues and risks that come with that should be acknowledged.

Its not exactly open enlistment. Not everyone can be admitted to the military, although they may have lowered their standards so to meet numbers. When the economy was better, they were letting people in who had psychological problems and even people who didnt have all their toes when 5 years before they people were being refused admittance based on having flat feet.

Being in the military involves stresses that arent seen elsewhere. To suggest otherwise is silly.

I don't think anything will be swept under the rug. If anything, I see an issue being made that he was 'bullied' and 'slurred' which is what made him do it (somewhat like how Harris and Klebold were 'bullied'). There are surely additional issues involved with being a muslim in the military, but from what I've seen, most sailors and marines are very accepting (almost to the point of ignoring it completely) of different ethnic groups.

I understand it isn't open enlistment. In fact, with this economy, the new "Perfor to Serve" program is getting rid of lots of good sailors.

last paragraph: I wasn't talking about different people's tendency to cause violence. I was just stating how easy it is to get on a base to make an attack. Gate guards don't usually search vehicles, so getting weapons aboard a base isn't hard.

watermock
11-05-2009, 06:12 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mAXpJSvW5mA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mAXpJSvW5mA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 06:16 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mAXpJSvW5mA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mAXpJSvW5mA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>.

Wow, a Levi's commercial. Your penchant for displaying insight amazes me as always Mock.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 06:17 PM
The idiocy and hypocrasy of some of you never ceases to amaze me. It also makes me laugh (or cry), since if the shoe were on the other foot and someone were talking about locking up someone of your background, you'd be screaming your fool heads off.

It's not being "politically correct" to expect all citizens' rights to be respected, it's called patriotism. To even enter that in the discussion is, in a word, shameful.

The simple fact that we are having to discuss whether or not this could potentially be motivated by his religion leads me to ask this:
--IS DIVERSITY REALLY A STRENGTH?

There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.
– Theodore Roosevelt, letter to the American Defense Society (January 3, 1919)

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.
– Theodore Roosevelt, speech before the Knights of Columbus at New York (1915)

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 06:23 PM
some food for thought--IS DIVERSITY REALLY A STRENGTH?

Absolutely. So long as loyalty is unquestionable, diversity is an amazing asset. In how many countries could you pull people with ANY ethnic background from your military? Having these people gives us insight into every culture as well as access to people speaking any language already in our ranks! This is a fantastic advantage in todays warfare environment.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 06:27 PM
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/happiest_countries/index_01.htm?chan=rss_topSlideShows_ssi_5

1) Denmark
2) Switzerland
3) Austria
4) Iceland
5) Bahamas (no brainer!)

notice the homogeneity.........

Pseudofool
11-05-2009, 06:29 PM
The simple fact that we are having to discuss whether or not this could potentially be motivated by his religion leads me to ask this:
--IS DIVERSITY REALLY A STRENGTH?Working hard to shake the racist-label, I see.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 06:30 PM
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/happiest_countries/index_01.htm?chan=rss_topSlideShows_ssi_5

1) Denmark
2) Switzerland
3) Austria
4) Iceland
5) Bahamas (no brainer!)

notice the homogeneity.........

A list of the world's most irrelevent countries may be neary identical.

Pseudofool
11-05-2009, 06:31 PM
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/happiest_countries/index_01.htm?chan=rss_topSlideShows_ssi_5

1) Denmark
2) Switzerland
3) Austria
4) Iceland
5) Bahamas (no brainer!)

notice the homogeneity.........God knows all those homogenous third-world countries are just rocking out. Or perhaps you are suggesting something beyond homogeneity that might make those countries successful.

Few countries have much diversity. Go Figure.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 06:32 PM
Working hard to shake the racist-label, I see.

You guys can label me as you choose...........

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 06:35 PM
God knows all those homogenous third-world countries are just rocking out. Or perhaps you are suggesting something beyond homogeneity that might make those countries successful.

Few countries have much diversity. Go Figure.

They are 3rd world for a reason--a primitive, inferior culture---when you mix rotten vegetables with wholesome ones--it spoils the taste of the stew.......

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 06:37 PM
For emphasis:

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.
– Theodore Roosevelt, speech before the Knights of Columbus at New York (1915)

missingnumber7
11-05-2009, 06:38 PM
[QUOTE=Flex Gunmetal;2631006]I know. To think he hasn't ended the war that we enjoyed for the better part of two terms under the last administration. He's been in office almost an entire year!! The nerve!/QUOTE]

The morale among servicemen of the armed forces is at an all time low and that has to go to the Commander-in-Chief.

This is more due to the long deployments, short dwell time between deployments, and lack of support in policy from home.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 06:39 PM
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/happiest_countries/index_01.htm?chan=rss_topSlideShows_ssi_5

1) Denmark
2) Switzerland
3) Austria
4) Iceland
5) Bahamas (no brainer!)

notice the homogeneity.........

20 Countries with the highest suicide rates:

Lithuania
Belarus
Russia
Slovenia
Hungary
Kazakhstan
Latvia
Japan
Guyana
Ukraine
South Korea
Sri Lanka
Belgium
Estonia
Finland
Croatia
Serbia and Montenegro
Hong Kong
Moldova
France

Lots of diversity there.

oubronco
11-05-2009, 06:40 PM
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.
– Theodore Roosevelt, speech before the Knights of Columbus at New York (1915)

Here Here :alky:

missingnumber7
11-05-2009, 06:41 PM
[QUOTE=Pony Boy;2631009]

Well, to give the opinion of one military serviceman who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and is going to Korea tomorrow for a year, he thanks Obama for a raise finally, and any low morale has to do with Bush and all the guys that didn't come home. He says Obama hasn't served long enough to blame for much of anything. Cracks him up they want Obama to hurry, but waited patiently for 5 years while Bush ****ed things up. And his response to McDortoh is he'll take p***Y over idiot anyday.

Anyway, he also says he's praying for the dead's families and the wounded. I am also, such a tragedy.

Not to disagree with you on money, but I've been in the military for 8 years, I have gotten a raise every year that I have been in thanks to the Bush administration. Thankfully the Obama administration has not gone the way of other more recent democratic policies of cutting military and not equalizing military and civilian pay levels.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 06:42 PM
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.
– Theodore Roosevelt, speech before the Knights of Columbus at New York (1915)

Here Here :alky:

are you inferring that one of our most accomplished and respected POTUS's was a little inebriated when he made that statement? Or were you saluting it?

Archer81
11-05-2009, 06:44 PM
That's a dangerous line and one I hope our government doesn't cross again.

If they can restrict it in the name of "[insert event]" whats to stop them from restricting civil liberties for any event? Warranted or not.

Seriously, that **** is worth fighting a revolution over.


Bingo.

Republican and Democratic forms of government are the hardest to maintain, and can be easily toppled if the right event comes along. So far, the US is different because each time we have gone to war, the American people have agreed to allow the government to do what it needs to do to win, with the expectation that the government would relent acquired powers after the war was over. It happened in the civl war, spanish american war, ww1 and ww2.

As for the shooter in Texas, dude is a muslim. Does that have anything to do with him going nuts and murdering 12 people and wounding 31 others? We dont know, but we cant rule it out.

:Broncos:

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 06:45 PM
are you inferring that one of our most accomplished and respected POTUS's was a little inebriated when he made that statement? Or were you saluting it?

How about that the quote is 94 years old and no longer applicable to modern American Society.

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 06:45 PM
The most ultimately righteous of all wars is a war with savages, though it is apt to be also the most terrible and inhuman. The rude, fierce settler who drives the savage from the land lays all civilized mankind under a debt to him. ...[I]t is of incalculable importance that America, Australia, and Siberia should pass out of the hands of their red, black, and yellow aboriginal owners, and become the heritage of the dominant world races.
– Theodore Roosevelt, The Winning of the West: Book IV (1896)

I am done with the hijack...........

Pseudofool
11-05-2009, 06:46 PM
They are 3rd world for a reason--a primitive, inferior culture---when you mix rotten vegetables with wholesome ones--it spoils the taste of the stew.......I can't believe you haven't been banned yet. This is disgusting.

Archer81
11-05-2009, 06:48 PM
I can't believe you haven't been banned yet. This is disgusting.


Give him time.

:Broncos:

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 06:49 PM
How about that the quote is 94 years old and no longer applicable to modern American Society.

It's views such as yours with those who think that such a prophetic statement made some 90+ years ago is outdated jibberish from an era long since passed that is leading us down the destructive path that we are on now...........

broncofan7
11-05-2009, 06:51 PM
I can't believe you haven't been banned yet. This is disgusting.

If you want to argue that some tribal African culture that promotes the raping of virgins as a 'cure for disease' is on par with ours, go ahead........

Pseudofool
11-05-2009, 06:55 PM
If you want to argue that some tribal African culture that promotes the raping of virgins as a 'cure for disease' is on par with ours, go ahead........
Yeah that's common practice among all third world peoples.

If you can get irony, here's a good read for the rest of the non-bigots.
http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~thompsoc/Body.html

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 06:57 PM
It's views such as yours with those who think that such a prophetic statement made some 90+ years ago is outdated jibberish from an era long since passed that is leading us down the destructive path that we are on now...........

The world changes and we have to change with it. This quote was made at a time where the US was not yet established as world power. We were fresh out of the spanish american war, and had not even given Women the vote. There was a time when they thought the horseless carriage was a fad and that if you went faster than 80 mph you would spontaneously combust. Ideas fade and are proven wrong, deal with it.

watermock
11-05-2009, 07:01 PM
For emphasis:


Quote:
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.
– Theodore Roosevelt, speech before the Knights of Columbus at New York (1915)


As he set up internment camps.

oops, wrong Roosevet.

El Minion
11-05-2009, 07:07 PM
Yeah that's common practice among all third world peoples.

If you can get irony, here's a good read for the rest of the non-bigots.
http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~thompsoc/Body.html

Wasn't it just a few centuries ago people where burned at the stack for being witches. Those people where retarded and should have been wiped from the earth, what savages.

Garcia Bronco
11-05-2009, 07:07 PM
Working hard to shake the racist-label, I see.

Actually he makes a valid point. You cannot deny the truth of what TR said. If we don't drop our petty differences we'll fail to stay together. That starts by being of one flag. One language. One culture. An American one. Not to look for ways to celebrate your OWN diversity.

Garcia Bronco
11-05-2009, 07:17 PM
I know. To think he hasn't ended the war that we enjoyed for the better part of two terms under the last administration. He's been in office almost an entire year!! The nerve!

Stay on topic unless you have a relevant point.

It's very relevant. Brong our people home or finish the job. Trouble is they don't know what the job is. Nor did **** for brains George Bush. Bring our people home

And to reply to another poster...People can bitch about George Bush all they want. They may even be right. However, get this through your skulls: George Bush isn't the CIC anymore. He no longer exists in policy decisions.

Win or go home.

Garcia Bronco
11-05-2009, 07:20 PM
Solid point. I just find it funny a lot of republicans blame obama for not fixing the mess it took GB 6.5 years to create in less than a year.

That said, this is a tragedy. I heard an Army Major is in custody.

It's not a dance. It's not a boxing match. There is no foreplay. It's war. You either go bloody their nose and they bloddy yours. The problem is the President, who could end this right now, doesn't have a mission. All the while playing with peoples lives.

oubronco
11-05-2009, 07:31 PM
It's not a dance. It's not a boxing match. There is no foreplay. It's war. You either go bloody their nose and they bloddy yours. The problem is the President, who could end this right now, doesn't have a mission. All the while playing with peoples lives.

here's your sign

mhgaffney
11-05-2009, 07:34 PM
But haven't we just learned that Wall Streeet MUST be regulated? Or else we all get fleeced...

Paladin
11-05-2009, 07:35 PM
GB: You are so full of shyte. Tjh issue was Iraq, The Troops come home next year. Afghanistan was the right thign to do at first. The issues now are whether the widrawal of troops will lead to the toppling of Pakistan, and if AQ can be confronted without being in Afghanistan. That is what is being weighed. The issue is not one that Obama created. But he is working with the Pentagon to see what the options are.

Leave it to the repugnicans and the libertarians to paint issues in black and white. The dumbfoolery on this board is amazing to read.

Fug it. You don't understand shyte, anyway.....

mhgaffney
11-05-2009, 07:42 PM
Just perusing the thread -- it does seem that most OMers don't have a clue.

It's still too early to know for sure -- but it does appear that this Muslim psychiatrist had a serious problem with the US war against Islam -- which continues in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The real issue is NEVER discussed in the US media. No one is asking the real question -- what is the war on terrorism really all about?

Check out this shocking report and video from RAW STORY for the answer. (Better get a grip, first.) THis is not for the faint of heart.

Former UK ambassador: CIA sent people to be ‘raped with broken bottles’

http://rawstory.com/2009/11/ambassador-cia-people-tortured/

Rohirrim
11-05-2009, 07:44 PM
Damn. How did this thread get from there to here?

anon
11-05-2009, 07:45 PM
Actually he makes a valid point. You cannot deny the truth of what TR said. If we don't drop our petty differences we'll fail to stay together. That starts by being of one flag. One language. One culture. An American one. Not to look for ways to celebrate your OWN diversity.

True colors are being revealed and it's getting pretty ugly in here. Very disappointing and sad.

What he quoted is only relevant in modern society as it relates to loyalty to your country. Being a loyal citizen has nothing to do with your ethnicity or religion. You are either loyal or you're not.

Being a real democracy is harder than being a borderline fascist state pretending to be a democracy. That's just reality.

Would it be easier for police in a predominantly white neighborhood to just arrest every black person entering the neighborhood and then ask questions later? Yes, of course. Is that the way we want the police to operate?

anon
11-05-2009, 07:50 PM
And I don't see how retaining one's "culture" has anything to do with how dutiful you are to your country.

What is "American culture?" A mix of ideas and traditions borrowed from Old World, immigrant, and indigenous cultures. Take those away and what do you have left? 4th of July? Consumerism? NASCAR? Yeah, sign me up.

lex
11-05-2009, 07:56 PM
And I don't see how retaining one's "culture" has anything to do with how dutiful you are to your country.

What is "American culture?" A mix of ideas and traditions borrowed from Old World, immigrant, and indigenous cultures. Take those away and what do you have left? 4th of July? Consumerism? NASCAR? Yeah, sign me up.

Nice. Someone held on to their 4th grade history book.

mhgaffney
11-05-2009, 07:57 PM
Anon and anon....

You are missing the point. When a religion/culture is under attack -- people often react in kind.

Strange that no one in here knows or cares about the thousands of innocent Iraqis we slaughtered/incinerated at Falluja...

Probably not one in ten even recognizes the name, Falluja...

This is what comes of an "embedded" media.

Garcia Bronco
11-05-2009, 07:58 PM
True colors are being revealed and it's getting pretty ugly in here. Very disappointing and sad.

What he quoted is only relevant in modern society as it relates to loyalty to your country. Being a loyal citizen has nothing to do with your ethnicity or religion. You are either loyal or you're not.

Being a real democracy is harder than being a borderline fascist state pretending to be a democracy. That's just reality.

Would it be easier for police in a predominantly white neighborhood to just arrest every black person entering the neighborhood and then ask questions later? Yes, of course. Is that the way we want the police to operate?

You achieve successful teamwork by working to the same goal. Under that interpretation of TR's quote, it describes the foundation of some of our problems today.

We're not a democracy. Don't call it that. It confuses people.

I never gave any suggestion to achieve the ends, but I think we can agree that the answer is no.

anon
11-05-2009, 07:59 PM
Also, back on topic: I would not advocate ignoring the guy's Muslim background. Not because he is a potential terrorist but if he was conflicted about the war, he should have been removed from the military or remove himself.

As has been mentioned, it must be tough to be a Muslim in the US military right now. Aside from your own personal beliefs about the war, I would imagine you have to be pretty mentally tough to risk your life for your country while enduring the mockery of your fellow soldiers -- obviously people who missed the idea of what they are supposedly fighting for.

anon
11-05-2009, 08:00 PM
Nice. Someone held on to their 4th grade history book.

Define American culture to me from your AP handbook, genius.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 08:01 PM
Anon and anon....

You are missing the point. When a religion/culture is under attack -- people often react in kind.

Strange that no one in here knows or cares about the thousands of innocent Iraqis we slaughtered/incinerated at Falluja...

Probably not one in ten even recognizes the name, Falluja...

This is what comes of an "embedded" media.

Funny, when I was over Fallujah all I saw was IEDs, people searching for IEDs, or people running away from IEDs they'd just planted. I didn't see any incinerated or slaughtered innococents.

anon
11-05-2009, 08:03 PM
You achieve successful teamwork by working to the same goal. Under that interpretation of TR's quote, it describes the foundation of some of our problems today.

We're not a democracy. Don't call it that. It confuses people.

I never gave any suggestion to achieve the ends, but I think we can agree that the answer is no.

Now you're twisting the argument. If we're not a democracy, then what are we? What are we fighting for? If we don't even TRY to stand for our supposed ideals, we will have no leg to stand on when preaching to the rest of the world. This is why so much of the world hates us, because they see through the rhetoric and can easily point out our BS. It's one thing to be cynical, but to just give up means the real end of democracy.

And really, what does it mean to work to the "same goal?"

I love how people throw out ideas that obviously hint at something, rail against PC guidelines, but then are afraid to come out and say what they really want, because they know it sounds ugly.

lex
11-05-2009, 08:07 PM
Define American culture to me from your AP handbook, genius.

American history is full of tension, subjugation, and forced submission. You can go down the list. Its hardly been wine and cheese parties and political readings where people exchange ideas and have warm handshakes. Your sanitized version of american history is slightly amusing.


BTW, here is an issue that one of the founding fathers found concerning:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YWEzMjFiZTg0NmI2MWRlNDI2ZTU2ZDIzMThiNGUzZTc=

Not exactly tolerant. Not exactly expressing a tolerance of an exchange of ideas.

anon
11-05-2009, 08:07 PM
Anon and anon....

You are missing the point. When a religion/culture is under attack -- people often react in kind.

Strange that no one in here knows or cares about the thousands of innocent Iraqis we slaughtered/incinerated at Falluja...

Probably not one in ten even recognizes the name, Falluja...

This is what comes of an "embedded" media.

Not quite getting you here...

SoDak Bronco
11-05-2009, 08:07 PM
To bad this guy isn't dead

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 08:08 PM
Also, back on topic: I would not advocate ignoring the guy's Muslim background. Not because he is a potential terrorist but if he was conflicted about the war, he should have been removed from the military or remove himself.

As has been mentioned, it must be tough to be a Muslim in the US military right now. Aside from your own personal beliefs about the war, I would imagine you have to be pretty mentally tough to risk your life for your country while enduring the mockery of your fellow soldiers -- obviously people who missed the idea of what they are supposedly fighting for.

All the reports have said is that he didn't want to deploy. We had a guy in my squadron that didn't want to deploy. He had his wife run over his foot with a car. So many people sign up for the steady paycheck, medical benefits, and BAH but don't want to go overseas. They volunteered for it but then when they actually have to go to war, they find some reason not to. Until I hear otherwise, that is the case here.

anon
11-05-2009, 08:13 PM
American history is full of tension, subjugation, and forced submission. You can go down the list. Its hardly been wine and cheese parties and political readings where people exchange ideas and have warm handshakes. Your sanitized version of americal history is slightly amusing.

Yes, and so is much of the history of any other nation or empire. What's your point? And what does that have to do with what makes up "American culture?"

Evasive.

I never gave a sanitized version of American history. "Culture" is not the same thing as "History."

lex
11-05-2009, 08:15 PM
Yes, and so is much of the history of any other nation or empire. What's your point? And what does that have to do with what makes up "American culture?"

Evasive.

I never gave a sanitized version of American history. "Culture" is not the same thing as "History."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YWEzMjFiZTg0NmI2MWRlNDI2ZTU2ZDIzMThiNGUzZTc=

Your painting a picture of fairies and unicorns...one of handholding and acceptance when in reality it was more a case of forced assimilation.

In other words, expecting the new other groups to get on board, is very american.

And I don't see how retaining one's "culture" has anything to do with how dutiful you are to your country.

This is what you said. Notice how you discuss the melting pot idea and use past tense in discussing ideas and traditions being borrowed. You talk about old world. In your very own statement you link culture and history. Now youre trying to tapdance around the two somehow being distinct. You should have stuck with your original idea, which is that history is part of culture instead of waffling.

What is "American culture?" A mix of ideas and traditions borrowed from Old World, immigrant, and indigenous cultures. Take those away and what do you have left? 4th of July? Consumerism? NASCAR? Yeah, sign me up.

anon
11-05-2009, 08:18 PM
All the reports have said is that he didn't want to deploy. We had a guy in my squadron that didn't want to deploy. He had his wife run over his foot with a car. So many people sign up for the steady paycheck, medical benefits, and BAH but don't want to go overseas. They volunteered for it but then when they actually have to go to war, they find some reason not to. Until I hear otherwise, that is the case here.

I am not defending the guy's actions at all. Not at all. One, he is a psychopath. Two, he is coward and bad soldier.

Just angry that some people are using this incident as an opportunity to soapbox while disguising their white sheets with a red, white, and blue cape.

anon
11-05-2009, 08:22 PM
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YWEzMjFiZTg0NmI2MWRlNDI2ZTU2ZDIzMThiNGUzZTc=

Your painting a picture of fairies and unicorns...one of handholding and acceptance when in reality it was more a case of forced assimilation.

In other words, expecting the new other groups to get on board, is very american.

What does "get on board" mean exactly?

I'm well aware of the violent legacy of the US, but if you're suggesting that the violent history (slavery, treatment of the Native Americans, racial strife) should form the basis of modern American culture and inform our morals and ethics. I have to strongly disagree.

Garcia Bronco
11-05-2009, 08:24 PM
Just angry that some people are using this incident as an opportunity to soapbox while disguising their white sheets with a red, white, and blue cape.

And this is precisely the attitude I am talking about.

CHANGSTER
11-05-2009, 08:25 PM
Here's the up to date info coming out right now.

-Guys still alive though shot multiple times by a civilian cop.
-Reports he was giving away furniture recently.
-Didn't want to be deployed.
-Report he was unhappy about the US treatment of muslims. Supposedly suggesting to someone that Muslims should rise up and other things to that tune.


Its early, but I'm getting the impression from all the news coming out that he's probably not connected to any terrorist org, but shares some of the same opinions. And of course, he's a p***Y piece of ****.

24champ
11-05-2009, 08:25 PM
If we're not a democracy, then what are we?

A Republic.

Garcia Bronco
11-05-2009, 08:27 PM
-Report he was unhappy about the US treatment of muslims. Supposedly suggesting to someone that Muslims should rise up and other things to that tune.




He does fit the technical defintion of terrorist.

lex
11-05-2009, 08:29 PM
What does "get on board" mean exactly?

I'm well aware of the violent legacy of the US, but if you're suggesting that the violent history (slavery, treatment of the Native Americans, racial strife) should form the basis of modern American culture and inform our morals and ethics. I have to strongly disagree.

Thats your problem. Dont reference history at all if you only do it when it supports your moral stance. Not only that, but your response was a big swing and a miss. Practically everything you mentioned is way downstream.

anon
11-05-2009, 08:32 PM
A Republic.

Ok. Gotcha. I was using the term loosely, not to specify the strict form of governance.

anon
11-05-2009, 08:34 PM
Thats your problem. Dont reference history at all if you only do it when it supports your moral stance. Not only that, but your response was a big swing and a miss. Practically everything you mentioned is way downstream.

Show me where I referenced history. Show me how I used it to support my moral stance. BTW, what is my moral stance? What's yours?

Come on, man. Quit running away and throwing out obtuse statements. Come out and say what you really want the US to become.

Again, what does "get on board" mean, exactly?

lex
11-05-2009, 08:46 PM
Show me where I referenced history. Show me how I used it to support my moral stance. BTW, what is my moral stance? What's yours?

I already have and cited your own words with a quote.

Come on, man. Quit running away and throwing out obtuse statements. Come out and say what you really want the US to become.

I havent ran away from anything. I provided a link discussing that Ben Franklin wasnt exactly about A+B=C as much as he was about A+B=A. If you didnt read, you really should. Its not a sanitized piece of history that you like to swear by and it doesnt sync up with a lot of commonly held politically correct viewpoints.

And regarding your second part about what I desire America to become, that really has nothing to do with anything. I dont really like the US as much as I would like living some other places but I have too much invested here.

Again, what does "get on board" mean, exactly?

It means assimilate, genius.


In bold

Dagmar
11-05-2009, 08:51 PM
Don't we have a forum for this crap? If not can I start an "anticipation of Modern Warfare 2" thread on the main page? It will just devolve into a ps3 ve xbox360 argument anyways!!!

Lev Vyvanse
11-05-2009, 08:55 PM
PS3 sucks.

ant1999e
11-05-2009, 08:55 PM
Don't we have a forum for this crap? If not can I start an "anticipation of Modern Warfare 2" thread on the main page? It will just devolve into a ps3 ve xbox360 argument anyways!!!

Hilarious! Somehow everything on this board ends up in an argument.

lex
11-05-2009, 08:56 PM
Don't we have a forum for this crap? If not can I start an "anticipation of Modern Warfare 2" thread on the main page? It will just devolve into a ps3 ve xbox360 argument anyways!!!

Yeah, go find a nice pillow and cry in it.

watermock
11-05-2009, 08:57 PM
He does fit the technical defintion of terrorist.

Again, despite our "politcal correctness" in refusing to see this is simply a continuation of a religious battle dating back 1000 years, I don't know.

To me it seems like more divde and conquer tactics by the UN/NWO. Not specicially to this event, but relevant to the turn of discussion.

After all, anyone who believes Muslims put country over Islam are kidding themselves.

anon
11-05-2009, 08:59 PM
In bold

I did read it. You think it was such a huge revelation to anybody? That one of the Founding Fathers didn't actually have beliefs that correspond with the modern mythology of America as some idealistic society?

And that is relevant how?

Back on topic, the main perp was quite assimilated. He was born, raised, and educated in the US. I'm sure he could read/write English just fine. And he was in the military. Unfortunately for the victims, he was mentally unstable and a bad soldier.

I don't see how this tragedy was a consequence of his failure to assimilate.

Anyway, I'm done. I forgot how pointless these discussions are... it's more disappointing than anything else.

lex
11-05-2009, 09:02 PM
I did read it. You think it was such a huge revelation to anybody? That one of the Founding Fathers didn't actually have beliefs that correspond with the modern mythology of America as some idealistic society?

And that is relevant how?

Back on topic, the main perp was quite assimilated. He was born, raised, and educated in the US. I'm sure he could read/write English just fine. And he was in the military. Unfortunately for the victims, he was mentally unstable and a bad soldier.

I don't see how this tragedy was a consequence of his failure to assimilate.

Youre awesome.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 09:03 PM
After all, anyone who believes Muslims put country over Islam are kidding themselves.

Unless they are muslims who have declared thier allegiance to the USA, as in the oath that american military members take. Then you are wrong Mock.

anon
11-05-2009, 09:04 PM
Youre awesome.

Only if you're suggesting that assimilation means conversion to Christianity.

watermock
11-05-2009, 09:11 PM
I don't see how this tragedy was a consequence of his failure to assimilate.

Wow.

Seems more like infiltration than assimilation.

I don't like the term "assimiltion" anyway. Sounds Borg.

I doubt becoming a naturalized citizen being assimilated is any part of the preocess.

watermock
11-05-2009, 09:13 PM
Unless they are muslims who have declared thier allegiance to the USA, as in the oath that american military members take. Then you are wrong Mock.

Wow. How naive.

Read the laws of Mohammed.

anon
11-05-2009, 09:15 PM
Wow.

Seems more like infiltration than assimilation.

I don't like the term "assimiltion" anyway. Sounds Borg.

I doubt becoming a naturalized citizen being assimilated is any part of the preocess.

I don't understand what's so confusing. "Assimilation" is traditionally used to refer to an immigrant's ability to fit in culturally.

Loyalty to the nation is a secular value and separate from how he fit into society and his religion.

If he was born in the US, he didn't need to be "naturalized."

watermock
11-05-2009, 09:15 PM
Based On The Evidence Of 1200 Years Of Islamic History

Introduction:

FACT #1:

The goal of Islam is the subjugation of the entire world to Islam through the establishment of a global Islamic rule and the eradication of all non-Islamic populations, cultures, religions, thoughts, knowledge, symbols, traditions and ways of life.

This goal is non-negotiable in fundamental doctrines of Islam and in the eyes of true Muslims.


FACT #2:

Islamists will not stop their assault (open or clandestine) on the non-Muslim world as long as they have not achieved Islamic rule.


FACT #3:

IN ISLAMIC TEACHING, THE END ALWAYS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS: Islamists have no respect for the rules, laws or values of the non-Islamic world, to them only the rules of the Islamic world are legitimate. In their mind, when they destroy the non-Islamic world then the rules will change to Islamic rules, laws and values.


FACT #4:

ISLAMISTS CONSIDER TREATIES WITH NON-MUSLIMS AS NON-BINDING. When in non-Muslim countries they will pretend a social behavior as a cover up to their true intentions of domination over the non Muslim world.

TIP: When it comes to Islamists, ALWAYS LOOK AT WHAT THEY DO, NEVER WHAT THEY SAY: Lying, treachery and deceit are the Islamists' tactic of choice in their jihad of conquest of the non-Muslim world. This tactic (AL-TAQIYYA, or religious deception, pretending to be friends of the Non-Muslims in order to strengthen themselves against them) is a commonly practiced by Islamists. DECEPTION IS THE KEY TACTIC EMPLOYED BY ISLAMISTS.


FACT #5:

As a rule of thumb to get the truth from any Islamist, simply reverse what they say to a non-Muslim.

http://www.islam-watch.org/Others/Stages-of-Islamization.htm

watermock
11-05-2009, 09:17 PM
When in non-Muslim countries they will pretend a social behavior as a cover up to their true intentions of domination over the non Muslim world.


Pay attention.

Archer81
11-05-2009, 09:19 PM
I don't understand what's so confusing. "Assimilation" is traditionally used to refer to an immigrant's ability to fit in culturally.

Loyalty to the nation is a secular value and separate from how he fit into society and his religion.

If he was born in the US, he didn't need to be "naturalized."


I think what Mock is saying is that Islam considers itself more than a religion, it is a governmental and societal code as well. Someone who is Muslim cannot be something else, and because of that any oath or vow taken to something else would be invalid.

:Broncos:

watermock
11-05-2009, 09:20 PM
This doesn't mean that the globalists are not manipulating the conflict.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 09:21 PM
Wow. How naive.

Read the laws of Mohammed.

Read the UCMJ

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 09:24 PM
Based On The Evidence Of 1200 Years Of Islamic History

Introduction:

FACT #1:

The goal of Islam is the subjugation of the entire world to Islam through the establishment of a global Islamic rule and the eradication of all non-Islamic populations, cultures, religions, thoughts, knowledge, symbols, traditions and ways of life.

This goal is non-negotiable in fundamental doctrines of Islam and in the eyes of true Muslims.


FACT #2:

Islamists will not stop their assault (open or clandestine) on the non-Muslim world as long as they have not achieved Islamic rule.


FACT #3:

IN ISLAMIC TEACHING, THE END ALWAYS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS: Islamists have no respect for the rules, laws or values of the non-Islamic world, to them only the rules of the Islamic world are legitimate. In their mind, when they destroy the non-Islamic world then the rules will change to Islamic rules, laws and values.


FACT #4:

ISLAMISTS CONSIDER TREATIES WITH NON-MUSLIMS AS NON-BINDING. When in non-Muslim countries they will pretend a social behavior as a cover up to their true intentions of domination over the non Muslim world.

TIP: When it comes to Islamists, ALWAYS LOOK AT WHAT THEY DO, NEVER WHAT THEY SAY: Lying, treachery and deceit are the Islamists' tactic of choice in their jihad of conquest of the non-Muslim world. This tactic (AL-TAQIYYA, or religious deception, pretending to be friends of the Non-Muslims in order to strengthen themselves against them) is a commonly practiced by Islamists. DECEPTION IS THE KEY TACTIC EMPLOYED BY ISLAMISTS.


FACT #5:

As a rule of thumb to get the truth from any Islamist, simply reverse what they say to a non-Muslim.

http://www.islam-watch.org/Others/Stages-of-Islamization.htm

True Islam allows for 'People of the book' to live side by side with muslims. People of the book include Jews and Christians. That pretty much blows you 'FACTS' out of the water. Go talk to your cat.

anon
11-05-2009, 09:26 PM
Do you think the God of the Bible would allow his followers to allow their loyalty to a nation of men to overrule their allegiance to Him?

Pay attention.

Nazi pamphlet on "The Jews in World Politics":
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/aufkla01.htm

Nazi pamphlet on "The Jewish Parasite":
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/weltparasit.htm

watermock
11-05-2009, 09:28 PM
Now we're down to petty semantics.

The facts bear witness despite the spin.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 09:29 PM
Now we're down to petty semantics.

The facts bear witness despite the spin.

Says the man with no further meaningful retort.

Archer81
11-05-2009, 09:29 PM
True Islam allows for 'People of the book' to live side by side with muslims. People of the book include Jews and Christians. That pretty much blows you 'FACTS' out of the water. Go talk to your cat.


Islam also refers to Christians, Jews and "pagans" as apes and pigs, and to be slaughtered where ever you find them. Muslims also have issues with Christians as being pagan because of the generally accepted Christian belief in the triune nature of God. For muslims who want a worldwide caliphate, anything that brings about the realization of muslim doctrine is acceptable. (lying, betrayal, terror, murder) Simply because a muslim is a US soldier, and under the auspices of the USCJ does not prevent him from believing in the koran and wanting to fulfill the bull**** in that book.

:Broncos:

TexanBob
11-05-2009, 09:30 PM
WTF???

The shooter's alive! Some ACLU lawyer probably just came in his jammies.

gunns
11-05-2009, 09:32 PM
WTF???

The shooter's alive! Some ACLU lawyer probably just came in his jammies.

I just saw that. Shows how many rumors come out in a situation like this.

watermock
11-05-2009, 09:33 PM
True Islam allows for 'People of the book' to live side by side with muslims. People of the book include Jews and Christians. That pretty much blows you 'FACTS' out of the water. Go talk to your cat.

Tell that to the people of Medina. Bullshiat.
\
Because the Jews preferred to retain their own beliefs,
a tribe of Jews in the neighborhood of Medina, fell under suspicion of treachery and were forced to lay down their arms and evacuate their settlements. Valuable land and much booty fell into the hands of the Muslims. The neighboring tribe of Qurayza, who were soon to suffer annihilation, made no move to help their co-religionists, and their allies, the Aus, were afraid to give them active support. 12
The Prophet Muhammad's pronouncement: "Two religions may not dwell together on the Arabian Peninsula."13 This edict was carried out by Abu Bakr and Omar 1, the Prophet Muhammad's successors; the entire community of Jewish settlements throughout northern Arabia was systematically slaughtered. According to Bernard Lewis, "the extermination of the Jewish tribe of Quraiza was followed by "an attack on the Jewish oasis of Khaibar."14
Messengers of Muhammad were sent to the Jews who had escaped to the safety and comfort of Khaibar, "inviting" Usayr, the Jewish "war chief," to visit Medina for mediations.

Usayr set off with thirty companions and a Muslim escort. Suspecting no foul play, the Jews went unarmed. On the way, the Muslims turned upon the defenseless delegation, killing all but one who managed to escape. "War is deception," 15 according to an oft-quoted saying of the Prophet.16


http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/medina.html

Meck77
11-05-2009, 09:35 PM
I guess Hasan doesn't get the virgins. He's going to be well received in prison.

Pseudofool
11-05-2009, 09:35 PM
WTF???

The shooter's alive! Some ACLU lawyer probably just came in his jammies.

Wow. I can't believe he lived.

watermock
11-05-2009, 09:40 PM
True Islam allows for 'People of the book' to live side by side with muslims. People of the book include Jews and Christians. That pretty much blows you 'FACTS' out of the water. Go talk to your cat.

"Two religions may not dwell together on the Arabian Peninsula."13 This edict was carried out by Abu Bakr and Omar 1, the Prophet Muhammad's successors; the entire community of Jewish settlements throughout northern Arabia was systematically slaughtered. According to Bernard Lewis, "the extermination of the Jewish tribe of Quraiza was followed by "an attack on the Jewish oasis of Khaibar."14
.

STBumpkin
11-05-2009, 09:45 PM
Mock, that is not what the Koran teaches. If a group took it upon themselves in the name of muhammad to kill some jews, they went against the peaceful teachings of the Koran. There are many sects of Islam that do not follow the original teachings, just like there are many different kinds of christians that have widely varying beliefs.

Arguing various religeous beliefs is counterproductive. However, your pronouncement that all muslims are untrustworthy is simple, plain BIGOTRY.

anon
11-05-2009, 09:46 PM
From those raving liberals at National Geographic;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/09/0925_TVkoran_2.html

The knights on the Crusades were not exactly going on a roadtrip to see new places and make new friends.

This quote from the article pretty much says it all:
"If people are intent on using religion to motivate terror or violence, they'll find an excuse there no matter what the actual text says," says David Rodier of American University in Washington, D.C., who is an expert on the world's religions. Like the Koran, he says, most holy scriptures are filled with stories of war and warriors, and these images have been used throughout history by some members of every faith to justify bloodshed.

"Religion, after all, speaks to our most basic and ultimate convictions, and if you are wanting to use violence, if you can find a religious justification, then you can find a very powerful motivation," says Rodier.

Archer81
11-05-2009, 09:52 PM
Mock, that is not what the Koran teaches. If a group took it upon themselves in the name of muhammad to kill some jews, they went against the peaceful teachings of the Koran. There are many sects of Islam that do not follow the original teachings, just like there are many different kinds of christians that have widely varying beliefs.

Arguing various religeous beliefs is counterproductive. However, your pronouncement that all muslims are untrustworthy is simple, plain BIGOTRY.


Islam = peaceful as Raiders = Quality.

:Broncos:

Dagmar
11-05-2009, 09:55 PM
Yeah, go find a nice pillow and cry in it.

Why don't you go **** yourself lex?

Dagmar
11-05-2009, 09:56 PM
I love mock.

http://www.socalbeerpong.com/files/webform/PeanutButterJellyTime_3.gif

watermock
11-05-2009, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by STBumpkin
True Islam allows for 'People of the book' to live side by side with muslims. People of the book include Jews and Christians. That pretty much blows you 'FACTS' out of the water. Go talk to your cat.

Animals have no bias or religion.Except for domesticated species which acknowlege an alpha.

To say your clueless would be an undertatement. At least a cat can make intelligent survival choices, too bad humans can't.

watermock
11-05-2009, 10:01 PM
For better or worse, the knight templar beat back the muslims only to be slaughtred bythe vatican and robbed on Malta.

RMT
11-05-2009, 10:03 PM
His cousin just gave a long interview to Shepard Smith. He said Hassan has been Muslim his whole life. He was born and raised in the U.S. Spent his whole life in Roanoke, VA. He had been expressing that he had been constantly harassed about his name and ethnicity and was totally opposed to being deployed. He wanted out of the military and had hired a lawyer to represent him.

i can empathize with him for being harassed but a LOT of people get harassed for a VARIETY of reasons - how many go out and kill a plethora of people.

the fact that he was refusing to be deployed indicates to me whose "side" he was on - very suspicious ... granted, other soliders have gone done a variety of things to avoid deployment but much of their reasoning had to do with being opposed to the war, in general, or fear of being killed. it's POSSIBLE (although NOT a guarantee) and LIKELY that he felt more inclined to support muslims than honor the oath he took when he enlisted.

Archer81
11-05-2009, 10:06 PM
i can empathize with him for being harassed but a LOT of people get harassed for a VARIETY of reasons - how many go out and kill a plethora of people.

the fact that he was refusing to be deployed indicates to me whose "side" he was on ...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-mTUmczVdik&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-mTUmczVdik&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


:Broncos:

Rock Chalk
11-05-2009, 10:12 PM
How about that the quote is 94 years old and no longer applicable to modern American Society.

Ive heard some stupid arguments, but this is the dumbest of all dumb stupid liberal arguments ever.

RMT
11-05-2009, 10:19 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-mTUmczVdik&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-mTUmczVdik&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


:Broncos:

sweet post!!! that's where i got "plethora" from ... i LOVE that movie!!!

Archer81
11-05-2009, 10:21 PM
sweet post!!! that's where i got "plethora" from ... i LOVE that movie!!!


Its hard not to love that movie.


:Broncos:

RMT
11-05-2009, 10:24 PM
Why don't you go **** yourself lex?

he can't all by himself ... he is just ONE dick ... well, i guess he could be that and a cun+... but for him that would be overachieving.

Rock Chalk
11-05-2009, 10:25 PM
Mock, that is not what the Koran teaches. If a group took it upon themselves in the name of muhammad to kill some jews, they went against the peaceful teachings of the Koran. There are many sects of Islam that do not follow the original teachings, just like there are many different kinds of christians that have widely varying beliefs.

Arguing various religeous beliefs is counterproductive. However, your pronouncement that all muslims are untrustworthy is simple, plain BIGOTRY.

Islam is not a peaceful religion.

Muhammad allowed his men to rape the women captured in raids. However, after capturing the women, Muslims faced a dilemma. They wanted to have sex with them but also wanted to return them for ransom and therefore did not want to make them pregnant. Some of these women were already married. Their husbands had managed to escape when taken by surprise and were still alive. The raiders considered the possibility of coitus interruptus (withdrawing from intercourse prior to ejaculation). Unsure of the best course of action, they went to Muhammad for counsel. Bukhari reports:

Abu Saeed said: “We went out with Allâh's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allâh's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."

Notice that Muhammad does not forbid raping women captured in war. Instead, he indicates that when Allâh intends to create anything, nothing can prevent it. In other words, not even the absence of semen can prevent it. So Muhammad is telling his men that coitus interruptus would be futile and ill-advised because it would be an attempt to thwart the irresistible will of Allâh. Muhammad does not say a word against the forced insemination of these captive females. In fact, by criticizing coitus interruptus, in effect he supported forced insemination.

In the Qur’an, Muhammad’s god made it legal to have intercourse with slave women, the so-called “right hand possessions,” even if they were married before their capture.

Ibn Aun has narrated: “I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.”

Safiyah was a beautiful 17 years old Jewish woman who was captured when Muhammad’s troops raided Kheibar. She was the daughter or Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab, the chief of the Banu Nadir, a Jewish tribe of Medina , whom Muhammad had beheaded two years earlier along with the men of Banu Quriaza. The tribe of Banu Nadir had been already banished from Medina and their properties were confiscated.
Safiyah had married to her cousin Kinana, who was a young Jewish leader of Kheibar. When Muhammad raided that fortress, he killed its unarmed men and captured the rest. A Jewish traitor, (reminds me of Noam Chomsky) to gain Muhammad’s favor and be spared from death, told him that Kinana was the treasurer of the town and that he used to hide the money in some ruins. Muhammad ordered Kinana to be tortured to reveal the whereabouts of the treasures and killed him.

<hr>
Real peaceful religion that Muhammad created huh.

Br0nc0Buster
11-05-2009, 10:36 PM
he can't all by himself ... he is just ONE dick ... well, i guess he could be that and a cun+... but for him that would be overachieving.

<object width="580" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5aYtHDlAkN0&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5aYtHDlAkN0&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="580" height="360"></embed></object>


NSFW

Archer81
11-05-2009, 10:37 PM
This thread is so strange.


:Broncos:

Archer81
11-05-2009, 10:38 PM
Islam is not a peaceful religion.

Muhammad allowed his men to rape the women captured in raids. However, after capturing the women, Muslims faced a dilemma. They wanted to have sex with them but also wanted to return them for ransom and therefore did not want to make them pregnant. Some of these women were already married. Their husbands had managed to escape when taken by surprise and were still alive. The raiders considered the possibility of coitus interruptus (withdrawing from intercourse prior to ejaculation). Unsure of the best course of action, they went to Muhammad for counsel. Bukhari reports:

Abu Saeed said: “We went out with Allâh's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allâh's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."

Notice that Muhammad does not forbid raping women captured in war. Instead, he indicates that when Allâh intends to create anything, nothing can prevent it. In other words, not even the absence of semen can prevent it. So Muhammad is telling his men that coitus interruptus would be futile and ill-advised because it would be an attempt to thwart the irresistible will of Allâh. Muhammad does not say a word against the forced insemination of these captive females. In fact, by criticizing coitus interruptus, in effect he supported forced insemination.

In the Qur’an, Muhammad’s god made it legal to have intercourse with slave women, the so-called “right hand possessions,” even if they were married before their capture.

Ibn Aun has narrated: “I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.”

Safiyah was a beautiful 17 years old Jewish woman who was captured when Muhammad’s troops raided Kheibar. She was the daughter or Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab, the chief of the Banu Nadir, a Jewish tribe of Medina , whom Muhammad had beheaded two years earlier along with the men of Banu Quriaza. The tribe of Banu Nadir had been already banished from Medina and their properties were confiscated.
Safiyah had married to her cousin Kinana, who was a young Jewish leader of Kheibar. When Muhammad raided that fortress, he killed its unarmed men and captured the rest. A Jewish traitor, (reminds me of Noam Chomsky) to gain Muhammad’s favor and be spared from death, told him that Kinana was the treasurer of the town and that he used to hide the money in some ruins. Muhammad ordered Kinana to be tortured to reveal the whereabouts of the treasures and killed him.

<hr>
Real peaceful religion that Muhammad created huh.


No worries. Soon you will hear justifications and equivications. Christians are just as bloodthirsty, blah blah.

:Broncos:

listopencil
11-05-2009, 11:00 PM
No worries. Soon you will hear justifications and equivications. Christians are just as bloodthirsty, blah blah.

:Broncos:

Well, it is true. Especially that darned Old Testament that just won't go away. I'd explain but I have to go kill a goat or God will be mad at me. And lest ye forget, He is a vengeful God. Scary stuff.

Archer81
11-05-2009, 11:41 PM
Well, it is true. Especially that darned Old Testament that just won't go away. I'd explain but I have to go kill a goat or God will be mad at me. And lest ye forget, He is a vengeful God. Scary stuff.


The way I was taught was the OT was the setting of the table for the coming of a Savior; and how He would fulfill OT law and establish a new covenant with mankind.

Considering Jews do not consider Jesus to be the savior, why dont they engage in slaughter of "infidels" or blood sacrifices or push for the creation of a worldwide Jewish state? Why have Christians and Jews grown out of religious backed violence and Muslims have not? The Pope, nor Rabbis issue religious decrees ordering the deaths of people who mock or appropriately criticize their faiths.

:Broncos:

watermock
11-05-2009, 11:49 PM
Well, it is true. Especially that darned Old Testament that just won't go away. I'd explain but I have to go kill a goat or God will be mad at me. And lest ye forget, He is a vengeful God. Scary stuff.

Maybe you forget the New Covenant.

watermock
11-06-2009, 12:10 AM
Mock, that is not what the Koran teaches. If a group took it upon themselves in the name of muhammad to kill some jews, they went against the peaceful teachings of the Koran. There are many sects of Islam that do not follow the original teachings, just like there are many different kinds of christians that have widely varying beliefs.

Arguing various religeous beliefs is counterproductive. However, your pronouncement that all muslims are untrustworthy is simple, plain BIGOTRY.


they went against the peaceful teachings of the Koran. There are many sects of Islam that do not follow the original teachings,.

Then according to Islam they are infidels and should be killed.

THE REASON THEY DON'T FOLLOW THEM IS THAT THEY ARE ACCEPTED AS MURDER, AND PROSECUTED AS SUCH AS WHERE WESTERN LAW IS APPLIED.

Jesus Christ!

Your doing nothing more than disavowing the original trachings, which is what Shia did.

Unfortunately, the NWO has sided with the Sunni.

It makes it all the more confusing that we are both supporting Sunni and fighting it.

And fighting Shia and fighting it?

Yet we let the Plutocrats control Russia and 2/3'ds of the nuclear mass?

Don't you find that disturbing?

RMT
11-06-2009, 12:15 AM
seems like we need to stem the bitter post theme a bit ... so i bring you Achmed ...

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UberBroncoMan
11-06-2009, 01:08 AM
No worries. Soon you will hear justifications and equivications. Christians are just as bloodthirsty, blah blah.

:Broncos:

What idiots don't get is that Christianity WAS (keyword) violent and EVOLVED with modern civilization. Sure there are still some violent individuals who are Christian, even Hindu's, and Buddhist's. But it's not spread and maintained through violence like the past.

Islam as a WHOLE is still living CENTURIES in the past and they do NOT want to advance past that. Islam was founded and then shortly after spread in violence after the butchering of the people of Mecca when Mohammad came back with his converts after being exiled from Mecca for being (a ****ing lunatic). They pray to a ****ing black rock there that's nothing more than the remnant of a meteorite.

Anyone who has studied theological, world, and military history would know that Mohammad was nothing more than some rich merchant's kid who thought (hmmm I'll make a religion). Then used that power to do the stuff he wanted ie. ****ing all the woman he wanted.

watermock
11-06-2009, 01:49 AM
God I miss the 60's...

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lex
11-06-2009, 04:28 AM
he can't all by himself ... he is just ONE dick ... well, i guess he could be that and a cun+... but for him that would be overachieving.

You and him both can aptly cry each other to sleep.

watermock
11-06-2009, 05:29 AM
Hasan had come to the attention of federal law enforcement officials at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats, according to a federal law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case.

The official said investigators were trying to confirm that Hasan was the author of the postings, one of which was a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades. One of the officials said federal search warrants were being drawn up to authorize seizure of Hasan's computer.

That One Guy
11-06-2009, 06:19 AM
Maybe the Army should consider personal evaluations of people that don't simply encourage answering yes/no in whatever sequence makes you proceed fastest. The army is so concerned with protecting their investment that they'll often retain soldiers way longer than they ever should.

This major obviously didn't develop his views overnight. If someone even has a hint of disloyalty or question of orders, they should be evaluated.

It's easy early on, when you're buying into the brainwashing, to believe the "the army comes first" mantra. But what happens when it no longer does? Army contracts for enlisted max out anywhere from 6-8 years or are indefinite for seniors and officers. If you don't believe the army comes first, are you really what the army needs? Doesn't matter, the army has too much invested to be worried about such things.

The army is a volunteer force when you sign up. After that, anything but.

Rohirrim
11-06-2009, 06:52 AM
You'd think a psychiatrist would have better control of his psyche.

ak1971
11-06-2009, 06:53 AM
You'd think a psychiatrist would have better control of his psyche.

its because its fake..just ask Tom Cruise

Paladin
11-06-2009, 07:42 AM
It isn't fake. It is imprecise in many areas. It's an art as well as science. Medicine plus Sociolgy. There are few really unifying theories or practices in Psychiatry or Psychology or Social Work.

errand
11-06-2009, 08:37 AM
terrible tragedy...

Now if there was only some way to use it to blame Obama....hmmm.

Oh, to late.

some aholes have already sunken to such a low...

It's a ****ing terrible shooting, keep your political bias in your ****brains where it belongs.

Christ the nerve of some of you.

I agree, this isn't Obama's fault. However I do wonder where all the outrage was from those of you on the left who post here when Bush was blamed for 9/11?

Garcia Bronco
11-06-2009, 08:39 AM
I agree, this isn't Obama's fault. However I do wonder where all the outrage was from those of you on the left who post here when Bush was blamed for 9/11?

Or Hurricanes in the Atlantic

Rohirrim
11-06-2009, 08:59 AM
Never heard either of those. I believe Bush only received the blame for what he actually did, or failed to do, which was plenty bad enough. Nobody had to make anything up. He was the most incompetent, pathetic, and criminal president in history. Why bother making anything up?

Anyway, back to the subject. Now there are reports that this maniac was shouting, "Allah akbar!" while he was shooting people. That's just great.

Garcia Bronco
11-06-2009, 09:51 AM
Never heard either of those.

People on this board did it.


On another note this asshat attended Virginia Tech for a time. Get these ****ing people out of my school.

TailgateNut
11-06-2009, 09:54 AM
People on this board did it.


On another note this asshat attended Virginia Tech for a time. Get these ****ing people out of my school.

I guess we need to keep a close eye on you too. ;D

Remember when I told you there was no way my daughter would attend that HillBilly Heaven.

Something in the water?

Gort
11-06-2009, 10:25 AM
http://thereligionofpeace.com

there have been 14,300+ deadly islamic acts of terror worldwide since 9/11/01 alone. at some point, rational people have to pull their heads out of the sand.

2500 years ago, sun tzu warned of the importance of knowing your enemy.

Garcia Bronco
11-06-2009, 10:26 AM
I guess we need to keep a close eye on you too. ;D

Remember when I told you there was no way my daughter would attend that HillBilly Heaven.

Something in the water?

I thought the guy look familiar. He was there when I was there for several years.

watermock
11-06-2009, 10:32 AM
According to Gaff, it was PTSD transfer from his parents in Jordan.

It's Israel''s fault...

JJJ
11-06-2009, 10:43 AM
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/happiest_countries/index_01.htm?chan=rss_topSlideShows_ssi_5

1) Denmark
2) Switzerland
3) Austria
4) Iceland
5) Bahamas (no brainer!)

notice the homogeneity.........

Somehow I don't think those dudes in Iceland are very happy right now. They are ground zero for the banking crisis and they are losing their only McDonalds.

You would think Switzerland would be a happy with the mountains, lakes, and money but the Swiss never quite seem very happy. Same with the Austrians. These are not real positive people in general. The Scots and the Irish seem much happier to me. How could they not with all those lovely golf courses, the true figure of merit for happiness.

Danes are cool and like beer.

watermock
11-06-2009, 10:48 AM
http://www.sallerhof.com/images/menupics/large/23.jpg

Some people are just never happy..

watermock
11-06-2009, 10:52 AM
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sallerhof.com/images/menupics/large/23.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sallerhof.com/en-kehlsteinhaus-obersalzberg-salzburg.htm&usg=__dA-FTvY0Zrv__zMUpY8tqkW-Dkk=&h=277&w=639&sz=32&hl=en&start=20&um=1&tbnid=5c1JYCzcMlSzJM:&tbnh=59&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhitler%2Bmountain%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dc om.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7DKUS_en%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1.

Take the tour!\

They seem happier than Detroit...

watermock
11-06-2009, 11:00 AM
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It is what it is I guess

watermock
11-06-2009, 11:09 AM
It's odd we never, ever bombed the eagles nest.

Maybe because hitler was our best ally. Such a moron.

Rohirrim
11-06-2009, 11:42 AM
Here's the hero of this whole tragedy; Kimberly Munley

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/fort.hood.munley/index.html

OABB
11-06-2009, 12:49 PM
I agree, this isn't Obama's fault. However I do wonder where all the outrage was from those of you on the left who post here when Bush was blamed for 9/11?

first of all, not a lefty, and second of all Bush was the sitting president during the largest attack on American soil in history. He will be linked to that event as would any president.



Also, I am a (real)republican, and even I am embarrassed by the blame that Obama gets for the shambles that Bush left this country in.

I swear, the anti-obama posts when the guy hasn't even been president for a year remind me of SOcal, watermock, blueflame and lex this offseason...

Archer81
11-06-2009, 12:59 PM
first of all, not a lefty, and second of all Bush was the sitting president during the largest attack on American soil in history. He will be linked to that event as would any president.



Also, I am a (real)republican, and even I am embarrassed by the blame that Obama gets for the shambles that Bush left this country in.

I swear, the anti-obama posts when the guy hasn't even been president for a year remind me of SOcal, watermock, blueflame and lex this offseason...


In a year...

Obama has the largest budget deficit of any president ever. His economic policies have us sitting at a 10.2% unemployment rate. Of course, this does not count the people who can no longer pull unemployment. He has passed a "stimulus" that creates a 50k a year job at a cost of 70k a year, and was supposed to stop unemployment from exceeding 8%. He wants cap and trade passed, which states in the bill that it will kill jobs and limit future economic development, and he wants a bs healthcare bill passed, which currently is sitting with a pricetag of 1.3 trillion. He is also taking a year to decide what to do in Afghanistan, when the previous administration left him everything he needed to win there. But its more important to have a war of words with foxnews and rush limbaugh then make a decision about our troops overseas.

All in a year. Cant wait for the next three.

:Broncos:

Rohirrim
11-06-2009, 01:38 PM
In a year...

Obama has the largest budget deficit of any president ever. His economic policies have us sitting at a 10.2% unemployment rate. Of course, this does not count the people who can no longer pull unemployment. He has passed a "stimulus" that creates a 50k a year job at a cost of 70k a year, and was supposed to stop unemployment from exceeding 8%. He wants cap and trade passed, which states in the bill that it will kill jobs and limit future economic development, and he wants a bs healthcare bill passed, which currently is sitting with a pricetag of 1.3 trillion. He is also taking a year to decide what to do in Afghanistan, when the previous administration left him everything he needed to win there. But its more important to have a war of words with foxnews and rush limbaugh then make a decision about our troops overseas.

All in a year. Cant wait for the next three.

:Broncos:

There are lies, then there are damn lies, then there is this post. ;D

TailgateNut
11-06-2009, 01:43 PM
There are lies, then there are damn lies, then there is this post. ;D

Well, when you still have Bushs' dick in your mouth, things don't come out clearly.:wiggle:

crush17
11-06-2009, 01:46 PM
In a year...

Obama has the largest budget deficit of any president ever. His economic policies have us sitting at a 10.2% unemployment rate. Of course, this does not count the people who can no longer pull unemployment. He has passed a "stimulus" that creates a 50k a year job at a cost of 70k a year, and was supposed to stop unemployment from exceeding 8%. He wants cap and trade passed, which states in the bill that it will kill jobs and limit future economic development, and he wants a bs healthcare bill passed, which currently is sitting with a pricetag of 1.3 trillion. He is also taking a year to decide what to do in Afghanistan, when the previous administration left him everything he needed to win there. But its more important to have a war of words with foxnews and rush limbaugh then make a decision about our troops overseas.

All in a year. Cant wait for the next three.

:Broncos:

holy idiotic post, batman!

errand
11-06-2009, 01:49 PM
He had asked not to be deployed and he was being deployed. Kind of explains the location of the shooting. Also something about being called names lately. I didn't get all that.

His bitching about being deployed is bull****. They don't just hand out the rank of major without you having serve a few years, and i'm sure he had been deployed prior to all this happening. His issue was probably being deployed to a place where he'd have to fight muslim extremists.....and that would be akin (in his warped mind) to him having to fight against his own family

gyldenlove
11-06-2009, 01:53 PM
Somehow I don't think those dudes in Iceland are very happy right now. They are ground zero for the banking crisis and they are losing their only McDonalds.

You would think Switzerland would be a happy with the mountains, lakes, and money but the Swiss never quite seem very happy. Same with the Austrians. These are not real positive people in general. The Scots and the Irish seem much happier to me. How could they not with all those lovely golf courses, the true figure of merit for happiness.

Danes are cool and like beer.

The Scots on the East coast are happy, the Scots on the West coast are drunk, angry and unemployed. It balances out.

The Irish should be happy, they have taken the EU for so much money it makes GM look like small potatoes.

The Swiss are happy, they have cows with bells, good chocolate, tons of world war II gold and ski hills enough to last them well into global warming.

I never get why UAE doesn't do well in these surveys, they have the most money, the nicest houses and the cleanest roads. They have sunshine year around and you can actually use their world class beaches for a few weeks every year before the E.coli starts taking over.

errand
11-06-2009, 01:59 PM
How about that the quote is 94 years old and no longer applicable to modern American Society.

...there are alot of people, especially in our own government who think the same thing about our Constitution

errand
11-06-2009, 02:05 PM
I can't believe you haven't been banned yet. This is disgusting.

....his takes on Orton and McDaniels would have been a better reason to ban him LOL

If you think this is bad you should read some of the bull**** that has been posted in the politic threads.

Having said that, he's entitled to his opinion, right....or does freedom of speech only apply to those who are politically correct? It's no secret that the United States runs rings around the entire world, and has produced the highest standard of living and quality of life ever despite having only existed for less than 3 centuries...it's called freedom and capitalism.

errand
11-06-2009, 02:09 PM
But haven't we just learned that Wall Streeet MUST be regulated? Or else we all get fleeced...

...yeah. like the banking industry was where the government basically ordered them to loan money to people who had no business getting them?

Archer81
11-06-2009, 02:10 PM
holy idiotic post, batman!


Way to refute it.


:Broncos:

Rohirrim
11-06-2009, 02:24 PM
The Scots on the East coast are happy, the Scots on the West coast are drunk, angry and unemployed. It balances out.

The Irish should be happy, they have taken the EU for so much money it makes GM look like small potatoes.

The Swiss are happy, they have cows with bells, good chocolate, tons of world war II gold and ski hills enough to last them well into global warming.

I never get why UAE doesn't do well in these surveys, they have the most money, the nicest houses and the cleanest roads. They have sunshine year around and you can actually use their world class beaches for a few weeks every year before the E.coli starts taking over.

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. (Harry Lime, The Third Man)

TexanBob
11-06-2009, 02:31 PM
first of all, not a lefty, and second of all Bush was the sitting president during the largest attack on American soil in history. He will be linked to that event as would any president.



Also, I am a (real)republican, and even I am embarrassed by the blame that Obama gets for the shambles that Bush left this country in.

I swear, the anti-obama posts when the guy hasn't even been president for a year remind me of SOcal, watermock, blueflame and lex this offseason...

Stupidest. Post. Ever.

Logic #1: Bush is responsible for 9-11 (when he was in office less than nine months) because he was the sitting president at the time.

Logic #2: Obama is NOT responsible for the recession/depression because he hasn't been in office even a year.

I don't know if you're a real Republican but you're a real idiot.

gyldenlove
11-06-2009, 02:32 PM
Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. (Harry Lime, The Third Man)

No doubt that Monarchy is better for the arts and sciences.

Look at France, every time they have been ruled by a ruthless despot who tortured and killed peasants for sport, they have churned out greats. Every time they have had some sort of democracy or nondespotism the country has been a complete farce.

France is a country that gave us Descartes, Voltaire, Laplace etc. And they went and messed it all up by decapitating their tyrants.

Garcia Bronco
11-06-2009, 02:49 PM
"Originally Posted by orangeandblueblooded
first of all, not a lefty, and second of all Bush was the sitting president during the largest attack on American soil in history. He will be linked to that event as would any president.
.."

Not even close. Read up on Pearl Habor and the War of 1812. Technically the French and Indian War and the American Revolution count as well. Good grief.

atomicbloke
11-06-2009, 03:13 PM
No doubt that Monarchy is better for the arts and sciences.

Look at France, every time they have been ruled by a ruthless despot who tortured and killed peasants for sport, they have churned out greats. Every time they have had some sort of democracy or nondespotism the country has been a complete farce.

France is a country that gave us Descartes, Voltaire, Laplace etc. And they went and messed it all up by decapitating their tyrants.

Thats not a problem with democracy, thats a problem with capitalism.

Arts and sciences are always at odds in a purely capitalistic society.

JJJ
11-06-2009, 04:21 PM
"Originally Posted by orangeandblueblooded
first of all, not a lefty, and second of all Bush was the sitting president during the largest attack on American soil in history. He will be linked to that event as would any president.
.."

Not even close. Read up on Pearl Habor and the War of 1812. Technically the French and Indian War and the American Revolution count as well. Good grief.

9/11 was the biggest single day attack in American history from a foreign power (not counting the CSA of course). More people died on 9/11 than at Pearl Harbor and certainly much more than any single day of the Wof1812..

Archer81
11-06-2009, 04:22 PM
Thats not a problem with democracy, thats a problem with capitalism.

Arts and sciences are always at odds in a purely capitalistic society.


Oh? Read any great Soviet, Cuban or North Korean novels? How about plays? Seen any great NK plays? Oh...right. They are too busy starving to death because of their command economy to write the great Korean novel.

:Broncos:

atomicbloke
11-06-2009, 04:25 PM
Oh? Read any great Soviet, Cuban or North Korean novels? How about plays? Seen any great NK plays? Oh...right. They are too busy starving to death because of their command economy to write the great Korean novel.

:Broncos:

Arts don't flourish in autocratic environments either.

What's your point?

atomicbloke
11-06-2009, 04:26 PM
Oh? Read any great Soviet, Cuban or North Korean novels? How about plays? Seen any great NK plays? Oh...right. They are too busy starving to death because of their command economy to write the great Korean novel.

:Broncos:

You were joking right?

Ofcourse, Soviet contribution to arts, literature and science has been nil :thumbsup:

Archer81
11-06-2009, 04:33 PM
You were joking right?


No. You are seriously extolling the virtues of an economic system that leaves its people materially poor and financially bankrupt because the Soviets built Sputnik?


:Broncos:

atomicbloke
11-06-2009, 04:37 PM
No. You are seriously extolling the virtues of an economic system that leaves its people materially poor and financially bankrupt because the Soviets built Sputnik?


:Broncos:

Never extolled the virtues of the Soviet economic system.

Just made an observation that science and arts do not mesh well in a purely capitalistic system.

broncofan7
11-06-2009, 04:45 PM
You were joking right?

Ofcourse, Soviet contribution to arts, literature and science has been nil :thumbsup:

How about the sweet science? ;)

Archer81
11-06-2009, 04:59 PM
Never extolled the virtues of the Soviet economic system.

Just made an observation that science and arts do not mesh well in a purely capitalistic system.


Ah. I misread you then. Apologies.


:Broncos:

errand
11-06-2009, 06:07 PM
Probably not one in ten even recognizes the name, Falluja...

.

I remember Falluja...that's where those four American contractor's were killed, bodies burned and dismembered, then hung up from a bridge for the world to see. And isn't that where Nick Berg was video taped getting his head cut off?

errand
11-06-2009, 06:13 PM
I am not defending the guy's actions at all. Not at all. One, he is a psychopath. Two, he is coward and bad soldier.

Just angry that some people are using this incident as an opportunity to soapbox while disguising their white sheets with a red, white, and blue cape.

Because anyone whose opinion is that his religion might have been a reason he comitted this heinous act of violence is automatically a racist right?

I wonder where your outrage was when that dude murdered that abortion doctor, and his religious beliefs were given as the sole reason why he did what he did.

errand
11-06-2009, 06:14 PM
A Republic.

...a representative Republic.

errand
11-06-2009, 06:19 PM
Only if you're suggesting that assimilation means conversion to Christianity.

....speaking of a religion that covers converting non-believers, and the consequences if they do not convert... oh wait...i'm a racist if i mention it.

errand
11-06-2009, 06:31 PM
Mock, that is not what the Koran teaches.



I have never read the Koran, nor do I want to. But if the words mock is quoting are in it, then wouldn't it be possible that the majority of muslims actually believe it. As a Christian, I cannot pick and choose which verses of the Bible i want to believe or follow. I either believe it completely, or I do not.

so again, can someone enlighten us if this is actually in the Koran?

errand
11-06-2009, 06:53 PM
Never heard either of those. I believe Bush only received the blame for what he actually did, or failed to do, which was plenty bad enough. Nobody had to make anything up. He was the most incompetent, pathetic, and criminal president in history. Why bother making anything up?

Anyway, back to the subject. Now there are reports that this maniac was shouting, "Allah akbar!" while he was shooting people. That's just great.

You're so full of ****...you know damn good and well that Bush was blamed for 9/11 itself...or have you forgotten guys like Charlie Sheen? Not to mention that Bush blew up the levees in New Orleans and delayed help because he hated black people.

Bronx33
11-06-2009, 08:04 PM
what the flying **** happened to this thread?

Archer81
11-06-2009, 08:09 PM
what the flying **** happened to this thread?


Not entirely sure.


:Broncos:

RMT
11-06-2009, 09:15 PM
our passive domestic policy has permitted a-holes like the muslim one at ft. hood to infiltrate our society and destroy our safety and security.

we'll see more of this if we continue to promote political correctedness as a means to not offend anyone and at the same time forsake safety for everyone else.

what a disagrace ... this is NOT the United States of America i grew up in as a child. i fear for my children's future.

Rohirrim
11-06-2009, 09:29 PM
You're so full of ****...you know damn good and well that Bush was blamed for 9/11 itself...or have you forgotten guys like Charlie Sheen? Not to mention that Bush blew up the levees in New Orleans and delayed help because he hated black people.

Oh yeah. I forgot. Charlie Sheen: Voice of the American people. Ha!