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View Full Version : Champ's Decline = Better Overall D


Mountain Bronco
10-27-2009, 11:34 AM
Just a thought that Champ's minor decline this year (a very minor one but it is still there) is resulting in a better secondary along with the key additions. The reason being is that he has been thrown at more, thus resulting in more incompletions and passes defended by Champ, and less pressure on the other DB's. Thoughts?

SonOfLe-loLang
10-27-2009, 11:37 AM
Why are people talking about Champ's decline? Seriously, where the hell did this come from. The guy has been lights out again and, even according to KC Joyner (who gives the only real metric for cb's (though sometimes misguided), he's on pace for the best year of his career.

There really has been no decline. He got hurt last year and suddenly this "champ isnt as good" **** started.

Garcia Bronco
10-27-2009, 11:43 AM
Except Champ hasn't declined.

Rock Chalk
10-27-2009, 11:44 AM
I agree Son, Im not seeing the decline of Champ. What im seeing out there is Champ being able to focus on his position and get back to being the awesome CB that he is instead of having to worry about run support.

Mountain Bronco
10-27-2009, 11:46 AM
Ok, maybe there isn't a decline, but he is certainly being targeted more. Which I think is a great thing. Why is he being targeted more you experts?

Houshyamama
10-27-2009, 11:47 AM
I agree Son, Im not seeing the decline of Champ. What im seeing out there is Champ being able to focus on his position and get back to being the awesome CB that he is instead of having to worry about run support.

Exactly. I almost got tired of seeing him have to bust his ass on run support. He used to take off like a rocket to the LOS on every play and throw his body in there trying to make a tackle. Good to see him able to concentrate on the secondary.

Garcia Bronco
10-27-2009, 11:47 AM
Ok, maybe there isn't a decline, but he is certainly being targeted more. Which I think is a great thing. Why is he being targeted more you experts?

Because people forget....and when the forget...they pay the price. See Dallas game.

Asante Samuels....nasamdi....cromarite...nate clemons. The comp comes and goes....but they can't be the Champ.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-27-2009, 11:47 AM
Ok, maybe there isn't a decline, but he is certainly being targeted more. Which I think is a great thing. Why is he being targeted more you experts?

Probably because they are consistantly rolling coverage to the other side of the field, leaving champ on an island.

Rock Chalk
10-27-2009, 11:47 AM
Ok, maybe there isn't a decline, but he is certainly being targeted more. Which I think is a great thing. Why is he being targeted more you experts?

Because some QBs are ****ing morons and think he is on the decline?

Pony Boy
10-27-2009, 11:50 AM
Just a thought that Champ's minor decline this year (a very minor one but it is still there)

Go wash your mouth out with soap .........

TheReverend
10-27-2009, 11:50 AM
Ok, maybe there isn't a decline, but he is certainly being targeted more. Which I think is a great thing. Why is he being targeted more you experts?

Being targeted more ended up winning the Cowboy's game...

I'll take Champ Bailey being targeted more than ANY other player on the defense all day, every day.

Hotrod
10-27-2009, 11:51 AM
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/Broncogirler/morningsheep.jpg

jhns
10-27-2009, 11:56 AM
Ok, maybe there isn't a decline, but he is certainly being targeted more. Which I think is a great thing. Why is he being targeted more you experts?

He is being targeted more because Nolan is forcing passes that way. Some QBs also seem to think he either got worse or that they are something special. They are making the correct read if you get technical though. They are throwing to the one on one matchup. They seem to forget that you actually have to gameplan for playmakers so the technical right option isn't really the right option. It is only the right option in theory.

Drek
10-27-2009, 12:28 PM
Because some QBs are ****ing morons and think he is on the decline?

This.

And when the other option is throwing at Andre Goodman while Dawkins provides help over the top its kind of a pick your poison scenario.

Killericon
10-27-2009, 12:29 PM
Someone didn't watch the last few plays of the Cowboys game.

Bronco Warrior
10-27-2009, 01:03 PM
Two things: Who could think Champ is on pace for his best year? In '06 he had 10 ints and got ripped off for D MVP by Jason Taylor! Having said that he hasn't lost anything just not having as good of a year as that year. He's in a great team concept and he get's thrown at because there are not great options anywhere against this D, and Champ baits guys to throw it at him.

kappys
10-27-2009, 01:14 PM
He is being targeted more because Nolan is forcing passes that way. Some QBs also seem to think he either got worse or that they are something special. They are making the correct read if you get technical though. They are throwing to the one on one matchup. They seem to forget that you actually have to gameplan for playmakers so the technical right option isn't really the right option. It is only the right option in theory.

Exactly. combine the 1-1 matchup with a lot of pressure and for QB's they have to pick their poison - throw it towards Champ or chuck it up where there is dense coverage.

Either way its brilliant.

Greybeard
10-27-2009, 01:20 PM
Just a thought that Champ's minor decline this year (a very minor one but it is still there) is resulting in a better secondary along with the key additions. The reason being is that he has been thrown at more, thus resulting in more incompletions and passes defended by Champ, and less pressure on the other DB's. Thoughts?

Depends on what you call "decline." Yes, he probably has lost a half-step, but
a half-step loss from 4.2 is still fast. Meanwhile, he has gotten a whole lot
smarter, which counts more at that position that blazing speed (witness
DeAngelo Hall, for instance).

Even though Champ may not be quite as fast as he once was, he is still probably
faster than most CBs, and he is a better CB than he was.

I believe the reason more passes have gone his way may be four-fold:

1. With the increased pressure, the QB has less time to see where Champ is

2. Goodman is a truly quality CB, who himself is an INT threat

3. The nickel backs are very good, which means the #3 receiver is covered

4. B-Dawk is a backfield terrorist

Pick your poison . . .

-----

lazarus4444
10-27-2009, 01:40 PM
He's getting thrown at more because of scheme. The Broncos wanted romo to throw at hurd in the dallas game and they pretty much forced him to.

Drek
10-27-2009, 01:48 PM
Two things: Who could think Champ is on pace for his best year? In '06 he had 10 ints and got ripped off for D MVP by Jason Taylor! Having said that he hasn't lost anything just not having as good of a year as that year. He's in a great team concept and he get's thrown at because there are not great options anywhere against this D, and Champ baits guys to throw it at him.
Turnovers are not the gold standard to measure CB play by.

Champ is shutting down good opposing WRs at an all time rate. How much success did Randy Moss have against us? Roy Williams? Chad Johnson has been a beast this season but wasn't nearly as impressive in week one against us. He's been taking on some damn good WRs and containing them better than anyone else in the league has in a while. That is the measuring stick for a good CB season.

BroncoMan4ever
10-27-2009, 02:00 PM
Why are people talking about Champ's decline? Seriously, where the hell did this come from. The guy has been lights out again and, even according to KC Joyner (who gives the only real metric for cb's (though sometimes misguided), he's on pace for the best year of his career.

There really has been no decline. He got hurt last year and suddenly this "champ isnt as good" **** started.

i agree. a couple injury filled seasons that slowed him up a little and suddenly people talk about him like he is over the hill. dude is playing like he always has, shutting down his man. he may not be on pace for the 10 INT season again, but how many players have ever repeated seasons like that.

he is playing great, defending passes like crazy, showing teams that even though he was hurting last year, that doesn't mean he can be passed on or beat consistently.

i can understand having better talent all around him helped him in that he no longer has to play multiple positions and can once again focus on his job, but Champ is still Champ.

BroncoMan4ever
10-27-2009, 02:03 PM
Being targeted more ended up winning the Cowboy's game...

I'll take Champ Bailey being targeted more than ANY other player on the defense all day, every day.

damn right. i loved the stupidity of Dallas going back at him twice from near the goal line. i wish all the teams we played were that stupid

fontaine
10-27-2009, 02:05 PM
This guy is worth every penny. Without him our blitz heavy front 7 would fall apart because QBs would tear into the secondary.

He could retire right now and sleep walk into the Hall of Fame.

GreatBronco16
10-27-2009, 02:09 PM
Just a thought that Champ's minor decline this year (a very minor one but it is still there) is resulting in a better secondary along with the key additions. The reason being is that he has been thrown at more, thus resulting in more incompletions and passes defended by Champ, and less pressure on the other DB's. Thoughts?

So, he's being thrown at more, he is causing more incompletions and our secondary is playing better...........but he has declined?

Where do you come up with this line of crap?

elsid13
10-27-2009, 02:27 PM
i don't think his play has declined, but I am wondering if he slightly hurt. There been a couple of times it looked like he wasn't running as fluid as he usually does.

Archer81
10-27-2009, 02:57 PM
Two things: Who could think Champ is on pace for his best year? In '06 he had 10 ints and got ripped off for D MVP by Jason Taylor! Having said that he hasn't lost anything just not having as good of a year as that year. He's in a great team concept and he get's thrown at because there are not great options anywhere against this D, and Champ baits guys to throw it at him.

First 6 games of the 2006 season, champ had 31 tackles, a ff, 3 ints, 5 pass breakups.

First 6 games of the 2009 season, champ has 30 tackles, a ff, 1 int, 8 pass breakups.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
10-27-2009, 02:58 PM
Just a thought that Champ's minor decline this year (a very minor one but it is still there) is resulting in a better secondary along with the key additions.

http://i36.tinypic.com/6hiwwh.jpg

ZONA
10-27-2009, 03:21 PM
http://ui08.gamespot.com/1735/failed_2.jpg

epicSocialism4tw
10-27-2009, 03:27 PM
Turnovers are not the gold standard to measure CB play by.

Champ is shutting down good opposing WRs at an all time rate. How much success did Randy Moss have against us? Roy Williams? Chad Johnson has been a beast this season but wasn't nearly as impressive in week one against us. He's been taking on some damn good WRs and containing them better than anyone else in the league has in a while. That is the measuring stick for a good CB season.

Esteban Ochocinco caught 5 balls in that game, and only one of them was man to man with Bailey. It was about a 15 yard hook on the sideline that 85 turned into a big play.

Champ was also involved in another play where he covered 85 and released him to the safety. 85 found a little crease between Dawkins and Champ and Dawkins couldnt get over in time to break up the pass.

Here's a telling thing...Later in the game, the Bengals lined up 85 over Goodman. Ha!

epicSocialism4tw
10-27-2009, 03:29 PM
I just re-watched the Pats game, and they were downright afraid to throw at Champ. Brady avoided him all day.

Lomax
10-27-2009, 10:48 PM
Ok, maybe there isn't a decline, but he is certainly being targeted more. Which I think is a great thing. Why is he being targeted more you experts?

I think there's a simple explanation for this. The rest of the coverage is pretty darn good too.