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View Full Version : Whats up with our running game?


Br0nc0Buster
10-25-2009, 10:10 PM
Our running game has been kinda hit and miss so far this season.

I get we are transitioning to a more power blocking scheme, so are we struggling against good teams because we dont have the personel to run it(interior linemen too small), or is this something that will get better as the season goes along as the oline gets more familiar with it?

So what is the future outlook for our running game, can be have an elite running game THIS year?

Also regarding Moreno, when is he gonna start flashing the ELITE talent he was drafted for, not that I am complaining about Knowshon, but I would like to think he can do much better than what we have seen so far

tsiguy96
10-25-2009, 10:15 PM
im hoping the same thing with knowshon but hes not getting much help from the line, and doesnt get a chance to run off tackle too much it seems. to sum up the running game, its kinda like he gets the up the middle runs for a few yards but buckhalter gets the outside ZBS type runs where we get the real yardage. wish theyd give knowshon a chance to break abig one doing that.

BroncoMan4ever
10-25-2009, 10:29 PM
until Hamilton and Weigman are upgraded with bigger stronger players we are going to continue to see our running game be just average.

azbroncfan
10-25-2009, 11:01 PM
Moreno to me seems like he gained too much weight in the offseason so I expect his explosiveness to come back as he loses some pounds. To me he looks a little sluggish and dragged down. He looks 20 pounds heavier to me than he did in college though but that may just be me.

Borks147
10-25-2009, 11:15 PM
Moreno to me seems like he gained too much weight in the offseason so I expect his explosiveness to come back as he loses some pounds. To me he looks a little sluggish and dragged down. He looks 20 pounds heavier to me than he did in college though but that may just be me.

Kids tend to lose a lot of weight during their rookie year - maybe someone advised him to go overboard so he'd be perfect by season's end?

Atwater His Ass
10-25-2009, 11:30 PM
The offense in general has been pretty average at best. Last I looked I think we were something like 9th in yards and 17th in scoring? Very similiar to last years moving between the 20's but failing to put points on the board. My major concern with the running game continues to be the failings in short yardage situations.

Moreno is still raw and although I love how hard he runs, he's just not able to get up field quickly enough just yet. I'd rather see more of Buckhalter, who is averaging almost 7 yards a carry (compared to Moreno who is averagin less than 4) and seems to be able to make the correct reads at the LOS and get up field. Buckhalter has also been a lot more explosive than I expected.

The issues with the short yardage I'd pin more on the OL losing at the point of attack. However, I think it's on Moreno for those first and second down runs to get that average higher. Hopefully we'll see more of his talent as the season goes on and he continues to adjust to the NFL.

Kaylore
10-26-2009, 12:01 AM
Whats up with our running game?

:erm?:

Um, nothing?

We're ranked seventh in the NFL and are averaging 4.3 yards per game. We're better than last year and our offense is still growing. What gave anyone the idea this is a problem?

WABronco
10-26-2009, 12:02 AM
Uhhhhhhhhhh

OBF1
10-26-2009, 12:11 AM
To be honest, the entire rookie running back corps has been less than spectacular this season so far.

Broncosfreak_56
10-26-2009, 01:19 AM
To be honest runningbacks can only take what the line give them. Fix the LG and center and you fix the runningback problem. (although its not like we are doing terribly...)

BroncoMan4ever
10-26-2009, 02:25 AM
The offense in general has been pretty average at best. Last I looked I think we were something like 9th in yards and 17th in scoring? Very similiar to last years moving between the 20's but failing to put points on the board. My major concern with the running game continues to be the failings in short yardage situations.

Moreno is still raw and although I love how hard he runs, he's just not able to get up field quickly enough just yet. I'd rather see more of Buckhalter, who is averaging almost 7 yards a carry (compared to Moreno who is averagin less than 4) and seems to be able to make the correct reads at the LOS and get up field. Buckhalter has also been a lot more explosive than I expected.

The issues with the short yardage I'd pin more on the OL losing at the point of attack. However, I think it's on Moreno for those first and second down runs to get that average higher. Hopefully we'll see more of his talent as the season goes on and he continues to adjust to the NFL.

i love Buck, but his runs seem to be more about getting him the ball outside the tackles and having him run outside which help his average stay high, Moreno is taking his runs straight up the gut, which makes him having a high YPC average a little lower.

plus with Moreno he still seems a little tentative in his runs. seems like he is thinking too much, worrying about keeping a tight hold on the ball, pick up the blitz, hit the correct hole, he seems to be thinking instead of just reacting and playing ball.

i truly think he is still suffering a little from missing a lot of time in camp and in preseason. he still hasn't completely gotten a rasp on the pro game. he is showing flashes of how good he can be, just going to take a little more time for him to get his mind right and we will see how good he can be.

cutthemdown
10-26-2009, 03:42 AM
im hoping the same thing with knowshon but hes not getting much help from the line, and doesnt get a chance to run off tackle too much it seems. to sum up the running game, its kinda like he gets the up the middle runs for a few yards but buckhalter gets the outside ZBS type runs where we get the real yardage. wish theyd give knowshon a chance to break abig one doing that.

Bucky is quite a bit faster then Moreno. Not sure he would run those plays better.

UberBroncoMan
10-26-2009, 03:49 AM
<img src="http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=15709&stc=1&d=1147936819">

Um, nothing?

We're ranked seventh in the NFL and are averaging 4.3 yards per game. We're better than last year and our offense is still growing. What gave anyone the idea this is a problem?

We averaged way better last year. We need to ditch all the power **** we do and focus more on zone blocking.

We also need to fix 3rd and 1 and our goal line work it's pathetic. I'm shocked we've never tried a pitch out or play action with a QB run option to get the easy 1st.

cutthemdown
10-26-2009, 04:05 AM
We averaged way better last year. We need to ditch all the power **** we do and focus more on zone blocking.

We also need to fix 3rd and 1 and our goal line work it's pathetic. I'm shocked we've never tried a pitch out or play action with a QB run option to get the easy 1st.

You're not smarter then the coach so get over it. The fact you expect no growing pains with a whole new system is pretty funny. Team is 6-0 but that's not good enough, they need to ditch things and give up on them.

No sir that is not the way to go. Zone blocking is actually being used quite a bit. Anytime the oline just fires off in same direction blocking whatever defender in in front of them, that is zone blocking.

Also we have had some good runs pulling and trapping, Broncos just need to keep working at what Mcdaniels tells them to do.

UberBroncoMan
10-26-2009, 04:25 AM
You're not smarter then the coach so get over it. The fact you expect no growing pains with a whole new system is pretty funny. Team is 6-0 but that's not good enough, they need to ditch things and give up on them.

No sir that is not the way to go. Zone blocking is actually being used quite a bit. Anytime the oline just fires off in same direction blocking whatever defender in in front of them, that is zone blocking.

Also we have had some good runs pulling and trapping, Broncos just need to keep working at what Mcdaniels tells them to do.

Oh my. Sorry, next time I see our team completely inept in a certain part of the game after 6 games and the coach stating since the first game of the season they need to fix it, I'll ignore it.

All hail the supreme and mighty coach whose feet we all should tremble before in complete trust and absolute obedience.

Until we fix the 3rd and 1 **** I reserve the right to b**** about it because it has been costing us points practically every damn week so far.

Also about stuff not being good enough at 6-0... no ****ing ****. McDaniels himself says all the damn time that they need to improve.

Sorry if I got used to one of the best running attacks in NFL history and would like to see it retained as much as possible... a system that let you plug any ****ing back into it and watch him run for 1k... ****.

cutthemdown
10-26-2009, 04:44 AM
Oh my. Sorry, next time I see our team completely inept in a certain part of the game after 6 games and the coach stating since the first game of the season they need to fix it, I'll ignore it.

All hail the supreme and mighty coach whose feet we all should tremble before in complete trust and absolute obedience.

Until we fix the 3rd and 1 **** I reserve the right to b**** about it because it has been costing us points practically every damn week so far.

Also about stuff not being good enough at 6-0... no ****ing ****. McDaniels himself says all the damn time that they need to improve.

Sorry if I got used to one of the best running attacks in NFL history and would like to see it retained as much as possible... a system that let you plug any ****ing back into it and watch him run for 1k... ****.

The problem in on 3rd and short teams are putting 9 guys on the LOS and daring us to throw. For some reason we haven't. IMO the coaching staff will decide tweaking the play calling, practicing harder, probably a better idea then scrapping the type of running game that compliments Mcdaniels offense. You can't expect him to scrap what he feels will make the team a winner.

It's only 6 games into the season and the team is 6-0. You don't make wholesale changes at that point. IMO the smart thing to do would be to spread the field, then run the ball. Or maybe try hitting some big plays to Marshall.

I just don't think zone blocking will ever be our thing again. You still see it though every team pretty much runs some zone blocking.

If you look at the team that run the ball well though they are pulling, they are trapping, they are driving people off the ball.

KillerBronco#76
10-26-2009, 05:16 AM
seems to me like our run game has been dominant consistently gaining 3-4 yards a carry not to many big plays but ill deffinatley take 3-4. only problem i see is short yardage we're getting stuffed but thats kinda expected with a more athletic o-line, our gaurds are small so short yardage is not our thing. we have had almost no negative plays which is always a big plus. We score when it matters and it seems to me we get better every week.

cmhargrove
10-26-2009, 07:04 AM
Moreno to me seems like he gained too much weight in the offseason so I expect his explosiveness to come back as he loses some pounds. To me he looks a little sluggish and dragged down. He looks 20 pounds heavier to me than he did in college though but that may just be me.

I think it is in our best interests to have a "bigger" Moreno. He has already shown he can take some major abuse and keep running the ball. Remember the "bell ringer" he took in game 1 against the Bengals? There have been several other major collisions in the middle that I was sure would keep him on the bench, but he kept coming back.

Remember, he is still a rookie, and he is still learning a very complicated offense like the rest of the team. Mix that with the fact that we have seen some different guys in at Guard in a couple games (which is where the inside run game is decided).

He is strong, smart, and resilient so far. I only expect him to get better as the season rolls on. The fact that Buckhalter is doing so well only helps him stay fresher - that's a good thing.

peacepipe
10-26-2009, 07:18 AM
The problem in on 3rd and short teams are putting 9 guys on the LOS and daring us to throw. For some reason we haven't. IMO the coaching staff will decide tweaking the play calling, practicing harder, probably a better idea then scrapping the type of running game that compliments Mcdaniels offense. You can't expect him to scrap what he feels will make the team a winner.

It's only 6 games into the season and the team is 6-0. You don't make wholesale changes at that point. IMO the smart thing to do would be to spread the field, then run the ball. Or maybe try hitting some big plays to Marshall.

I just don't think zone blocking will ever be our thing again. You still see it though every team pretty much runs some zone blocking.

If you look at the team that run the ball well though they are pulling, they are trapping, they are driving people off the ball. every team in the league faces 8-9 guys in the box on 3rd & short.

Morenos problem is he's not a short yardage RB. he has to be able to move the pile on short yardage plays and he's too small to do that.

gyldenlove
10-26-2009, 07:22 AM
You're not smarter then the coach so get over it. The fact you expect no growing pains with a whole new system is pretty funny. Team is 6-0 but that's not good enough, they need to ditch things and give up on them.

No sir that is not the way to go. Zone blocking is actually being used quite a bit. Anytime the oline just fires off in same direction blocking whatever defender in in front of them, that is zone blocking.

Also we have had some good runs pulling and trapping, Broncos just need to keep working at what Mcdaniels tells them to do.

One thing I have noticed is that in the last few games, all of our big gains in the run game have come on zone plays, the guard trap power run that worked well in the first few games has been shut down quite efficiently lately. On that play you can really tell we have no lead blockers because against disciplined gap control defense we rarely create a crease.

The short run game hasn't been good and that needs improving, one thing I am not quite sure about is why we go to a power formation in those situations we have so much success with a more flexible formation and by having the option of the pass we can force the safeties away from the line or take advantage of them playing in the box.

Peoples Champ
10-26-2009, 07:47 AM
<img src="http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=15709&stc=1&d=1147936819">

Um, nothing?

We're ranked seventh in the NFL and are averaging 4.3 yards per game. We're better than last year and our offense is still growing. What gave anyone the idea this is a problem?


I am on your side

Hotrod
10-26-2009, 07:49 AM
6-0

cutthemdown
10-26-2009, 07:52 AM
every team in the league faces 8-9 guys in the box on 3rd & short.

Morenos problem is he's not a short yardage RB. he has to be able to move the pile on short yardage plays and he's too small to do that.

Broncos will have to try and make some plays. Whats happening is on 3rd and short, by trying to pound it over, we are playing against our players strengths. We are going to have to get more creative.

Like I said line up 3 wr, 1 TE, single back. Then motion Scheff out wide, spread the field.

Best they can do now is 7 on 5. Thats if the go man to man with no safety over the top. They won't do that they will leave one back, and probably play a linebacker also off in coverage. Now we are 5 on 5 and we can run better.

IMO you will see more formations on 3rd and short that try and remove defender from the LOS. If they don't respect the spread, then you throw it and make them pay.

dbfan21
10-26-2009, 08:21 AM
I think that Moreno and Buck have gotten close to breaking some big runs. I expect that one (or both) of them hit a long one soon. It seems like they are one missed tackle from taking it to the house.

It's a re-vamped system with new backs, so it will take some time. This might not be the week it will happen, but I can see our running game stepping it up in late November as we make a playoff push.

snowspot66
10-26-2009, 09:33 AM
Short yardage is my only complaint.

I have hope though. McDaniels specifically mentioned it needing improvement and all we've done in those situations is run it up the gut. It's not like we've tried everything and failed. We've tried nothing else yet. Hopefully that gives us a bit of a game planning edge too.

Ambiguous
10-26-2009, 09:54 AM
Short yardage is my only complaint.


Same here.

The thing is, this team has improved in so many other areas I expected them to be bad or horrible at, that I really have a hard time screaming about it.

6-0 baby.

lex
10-26-2009, 09:55 AM
We averaged way better last year. We need to ditch all the power **** we do and focus more on zone blocking.

We also need to fix 3rd and 1 and our goal line work it's pathetic. I'm shocked we've never tried a pitch out or play action with a QB run option to get the easy 1st.

The high YPC last year was more a function of being pass happy. The more you run, the more the defense expects it, and youre ypc typically goes down. I really dont want to ditch the ZBS but I also think we need to get Olinemen who are strong and mobile enough to do both so they dont get ragdolled in short yardage situations. Its kind of funny that Shanahan said the measure of a QB was making plays to convert 3rd downs. With that kind of acknowledment of the importance of 3rd downs, youd think there would be more dedication to getting linemen who are big enough and mobile enough so to not be overhwhelmed in short yardage.

Cito Pelon
10-26-2009, 10:02 AM
Overall league rushing stats:

The Broncs are 11th in the league in YPA.

5th in attempts per game.

7th in rushing yds/gm

16th in 1st downs by rushing

15th in 20+ yd rushes

9th in fumbles by runners

21st in TD's by rush

It's not something to get too down about right now.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_TOUCHDOWNS&d-447263-n=1

Lev Vyvanse
10-26-2009, 10:13 AM
What are the stats for 3rd and short?

Bronco Boy
10-26-2009, 10:40 AM
I haven't been able to watch every game, but Moreno looks pretty good to me. Sure he had a couple fumbles, but he hits the right holes, runs good routes, and blocks pretty well. Bucky is what he was in Philly, an underrated borderline starter.

enjolras
10-26-2009, 10:47 AM
I haven't been able to watch every game, but Moreno looks pretty good to me. Sure he had a couple fumbles, but he hits the right holes, runs good routes, and blocks pretty well. Bucky is what he was in Philly, an underrated borderline starter.

Moreno has gotten better every time he touches the ball. He seems to be adjusting to the speed of the NFL more. I think he's going to be just fine.

listopencil
10-26-2009, 10:51 AM
6-0

3rd and 1.

Inkana7
10-26-2009, 10:56 AM
I don't see a problem with it besides the few 3rd/4th and 1s we've gotten stopped on. Moreno had two sweet runs on the OT drive against the Pats and both he and Buckhalter were at least consistent if not explosive against SD.

I would like to see more bootlegs on short yardage situations. I little rollout to Hillis or one of the TEs shouldn't be that hard. Especially with how often we run the ball.

Br0nc0Buster
10-26-2009, 11:46 AM
<img src="http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=15709&stc=1&d=1147936819">

Um, nothing?

We're ranked seventh in the NFL and are averaging 4.3 yards per game. We're better than last year and our offense is still growing. What gave anyone the idea this is a problem?

running on Cleveland and Oakland is one thing, but New England and SD held our ground game in check

I dont think our running game is bad, but with the talent on our offense it doesnt seem right now to be doing as well as it could be

elpasojoe
10-26-2009, 12:30 PM
No one has mentioned Peyton Hillis. I know he is in the doghouse but I won't be completely happy until I see him running the ball 7-10 and catching passes out of the backfield. Him at third and one would make me happy.

Br0nc0Buster
10-26-2009, 12:40 PM
No one has mentioned Peyton Hillis. I know he is in the doghouse but I won't be completely happy until I see him running the ball 7-10 and catching passes out of the backfield. Him at third and one would make me happy.

Im sure when he learns the playbook he will be out there

WolfpackGuy
10-26-2009, 12:48 PM
If the runners are continually getting hit in the backfield, it doesn't matter who is back there.

With the type of linemen the Broncos have, they can't run the style of short yardage plays they're trying.

The coaching staff needs to quit being so stubborn.

Also, they might want to move that jumbo FB closer to the line.

A couple runs have been stopped because that lead blocker tripped in front of the RB.

Atwater His Ass
10-26-2009, 03:38 PM
i love Buck, but his runs seem to be more about getting him the ball outside the tackles and having him run outside which help his average stay high, Moreno is taking his runs straight up the gut, which makes him having a high YPC average a little lower.

I don't agree with this really, but however if that really was the case, why not keep doing that? When a guy is avg almost 7 per, you should keep doing that until someone stops it.

plus with Moreno he still seems a little tentative in his runs. seems like he is thinking too much, worrying about keeping a tight hold on the ball, pick up the blitz, hit the correct hole, he seems to be thinking instead of just reacting and playing ball.

Yes, and that was really my point about him not being able to attack the LOS. This will obviously improve as he gets more comfortable playing in the NFL.

My point isn't to say Buckhalter is the future over Moreno, but rather, let the guy who's playing significantly better get the bulk of the carries while you still keep working Moreno in as he adjusts. Also considering the grueling difference between the college and NFL schedule, I think it's wise to give Moreno breaks to keep him fresh for the entire season. Espcially now that it would appear we have a very good chance of making the post season.

Lev Vyvanse
10-26-2009, 04:25 PM
What are the stats for 3rd and short?

Anyone?... anyone?... bueller?

Cito Pelon
10-26-2009, 04:46 PM
No one has mentioned Peyton Hillis. I know he is in the doghouse but I won't be completely happy until I see him running the ball 7-10 and catching passes out of the backfield. Him at third and one would make me happy.

I guess it's kind of a relax and see what happens kind of deal. Bobby Turner still runs the RB's.

skpac1001
10-26-2009, 05:02 PM
Anyone?... anyone?... bueller?

I don't know, but since we are 12th in the league in 3rd down conv. % and we already knew that we are not a mauling, power running team I am not going to panic after getting stuffed a couple of times on 3rd and short in the middle of a perfect record.