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epicSocialism4tw
07-10-2010, 12:59 PM
Germans starting to dive and whine. I think Uruguay are getting the better of them.

Dutch
07-10-2010, 01:09 PM
Indeed. It's fun to watch and I think I am rooting for Germany, but at this point it's just for fun. My heart currently lies in Holland, but as an American of German descent I have a bit of love in my heart for them too. I may be here tomorrow, but unlikely as I am going to a friend's to watch the game and be generally obnoxious.

Great place for it to reside:thumbs:! I'm 1/2 Irish and 1/2 German on my Mom's side. 1/4 Dutch, 1/4 English, 1/4 Cherokee, and 1/4 Creek on my Dad's. My last name however, is Dutch (Smoot). I was lucky enough to get there while on active duty in the Marines. Took two weeks leave and just toured around on a Triumph motorcycle loaned to me by a fellow Leatherneck on Embassy Duty. Truely one of the best two weeks of my life. When the Dutch people I met found out the back story and what I was doing, well... it just turned out to be a great trip. GOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAL Germany!

Miss I.
07-10-2010, 01:14 PM
Great place for it to reside:thumbs:! I'm 1/2 Irish and 1/2 German on my Mom's side. 1/4 Dutch, 1/4 English, 1/4 Cherokee, and 1/4 Creek on my Dad's. My last name however, is Dutch (Smoot). I was lucky enough to get there while on active duty in the Marines. Took two weeks leave and just toured around on a Triumph motorcycle loaned to me by a fellow Leatherneck on Embassy Duty. Truely one of the best two weeks of my life. When the Dutch people I met found out the back story and what I was doing, well... it just turned out to be a great trip. GOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAL Germany!

I am a big mix. I always say my family got around. My sister says I need to stop making it sound like the family is slutty. I say cosmopolitan and well traveled, she says slutty...personally it just makes me laugh. But we are a mix of Irish, English, French, Dutch, German and Italian.

anyway, it's all good. I just had a blast in both countries, but particularly in the Netherlands.

Dutch
07-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Damn! I wanted Forlan to get that one! See you guys tomorrow! HUP! Go Netherlands!

epicSocialism4tw
07-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Awesome game! Forlan puts the tying goal off the crossbar. Crazy.

RonDaChamp24
07-10-2010, 01:24 PM
Great game!

epicSocialism4tw
07-10-2010, 01:25 PM
I guess the real question about the final tomorrow is...

Will the refs screw it up? With the way that this tournament has shaken out, I would have to say its a pretty good possibility that they do.

I think that Spain wins 2-0. Torres gets a goal.

LordHelmchen
07-10-2010, 01:25 PM
alright, was a fun tournament for Germans... looking forward to 2012 and 2014. With the other young talent coming through, Jogi staying, we will be a contender.

LordHelmchen
07-10-2010, 01:28 PM
and Paul has been 100% right with his predictions

epicSocialism4tw
07-10-2010, 01:28 PM
Folks, this game is just another example of how important a keeper is.

epicSocialism4tw
07-10-2010, 01:30 PM
and Paul has been 100% right with his predictions

Thats one of the funniest and most memorable parts of this world cup. I'm personally a big fan of cephalopoda. Plus, its an octopus named Paul. How funny is that? :rofl:

Who did paul pick in the final? ;D

LordHelmchen
07-10-2010, 01:34 PM
Not sure if Paul will be picking the final... let you know tomorrow, if he picks, it will be shown live on German TV ;D

SonOfLe-loLang
07-10-2010, 01:34 PM
Thats one of the funniest and most memorable parts of this world cup. I'm personally a big fan of cephalopoda. Plus, its an octopus named Paul. How funny is that? :rofl:

Who did paul pick in the final? ;D

Are they letting Paul pick the final? I think he only picks German games

SonOfLe-loLang
07-10-2010, 01:38 PM
According to wiki, Paul picked Spain tomorrow.

gunns
07-10-2010, 01:39 PM
I was told the squid picked Spain. Of course this from a guy that I've got a bet with. Had no idea about any squid. He told me he's never wrong. I told him there's a first time for everything.

LordHelmchen
07-10-2010, 01:39 PM
so, no need to play the game tomorrow ;D

SonOfLe-loLang
07-10-2010, 02:09 PM
I believe he was wrong once, just not in the world cup

Jens1893
07-10-2010, 02:11 PM
Good bye, Nations Cup, now back to real football.

http://lostboys99.de/fotos/2008-2009/vfb-ramenskoje/ASC00820.jpg

LordHelmchen
07-10-2010, 02:13 PM
He got the final of Euro Cup wrong (picked Germany over Spain) and a group game in that tourney as well (picked Germany over Croatia).

epicSocialism4tw
07-10-2010, 02:23 PM
I was told the squid picked Spain. Of course this from a guy that I've got a bet with. Had no idea about any squid. He told me he's never wrong. I told him there's a first time for everything.

Squid = Calamari.

Octopus = Psychic.

You just didnt know that we were dealing with an octopus instead of a squid.

epicSocialism4tw
07-10-2010, 02:24 PM
http://in.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20100709&t=2&i=150225052&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2010-07-09T104231Z_01_BTRE6680TR200_RTROPTP_0_SOCCER-WORLD-OCTOPUS

epicSocialism4tw
07-10-2010, 02:25 PM
What you people dont know is that there are alot of octopi off of Spain. This Paul character is just picking the mother country. ;D

Miss I.
07-10-2010, 02:58 PM
That's the name of that fellow...Man, that's funny. They keep showing him on TV in England and yes he seems to have quite a gift for picking the winning team...he's like the groundhog picking things. I like him. I think we need a Paul or Pauline to start picking the winning team for other sports. ;D

epicSocialism4tw
07-10-2010, 03:10 PM
I think that this Paul guy needs to go all out and use his chromatophores to project the image of the Spanish flag across his body.

If you dont know what a chromatophore is, I highly recommend the pleasure of learning about what they are, how they work, and what theyre for. Very, very cool stuff.

epicSocialism4tw
07-13-2010, 01:26 PM
World Cup Final drew a record 24.4 million US viewers. http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/content_display/news/national-broadcast/e3id62c14caef9dce16c2dd8cf25e17b578

700 million worldwide viewers estimated. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3ic1df212a5f55796f6689257f6a1b90ae

DBruleU
07-13-2010, 01:52 PM
I think the 2014 WC will even be bigger here in the US. With the record number increase in viewership here in the States, and with Brazil only being an hour ahead (Most cities) of EDT, more games will be primetime here and more people will be able to see them.

epicSocialism4tw
07-13-2010, 02:22 PM
I think the 2014 WC will even be bigger here in the US. With the record number increase in viewership here in the States, and with Brazil only being an hour ahead (Most cities) of EDT, more games will be primetime here and more people will be able to see them.

Yup. Plus it will be a Brazilian production with alot of fanfare. I would expect alot of our fans to make the trip.

atomicbloke
07-14-2010, 04:36 AM
Just got back from South Africa....

What a trip..... too emotionally drained right now and lost for words..... the party of a lifetime....

Never thought I would see the day when American fans would out-party the fans of most other nations.... everyone was saying we were right up there with the Argentine fans.... Sam's Army rocks!!!

The World Cup Soccer is the greatest greatest greatest greatest thing ever conceived by mankind....

Boy I am so high now, it'll take me a few weeks to get back to normal.....

epicSocialism4tw
07-14-2010, 08:50 AM
Just got back from South Africa....

What a trip..... too emotionally drained right now and lost for words..... the party of a lifetime....

Never thought I would see the day when American fans would out-party the fans of most other nations.... everyone was saying we were right up there with the Argentine fans.... Sam's Army rocks!!!

The World Cup Soccer is the greatest greatest greatest greatest thing ever conceived by mankind....

Boy I am so high now, it'll take me a few weeks to get back to normal.....

Im jealous. :)

Our US contingent is growing by the year. When I first started going to games it was a fringe sport that wouldnt fill up a 10,000 seat stadium. Now we travel to foreign countries. Its only a matter of time before we start having a significant representation at Azteca in Mexico D.F.

For those who havent been to a world cup...go. Seriously. It is the ultimate sports/culture event on the planet.

epicSocialism4tw
07-21-2010, 11:38 AM
A little post-cup update...

MLS have signed World Cup strikers Theirry Henry (France) to NY Red Bull and Blaise Nkufo (Switzerland) to Seattle Sounders.

Nery Castillo, a Mexican international, has signed with Chicago. Omar Bravo, also a Mexican international, is in negotiations with Kansas City.

LA Galaxy are currently in negotiations with Ronaldinho of AC Milan/Brazil, and NY Red Bull have just about signed Barcelona and Mexico veteran Rafael Marquez.

MLS is bringing in some firepower. NY/LA games should be wicked awesome. I'll go see both of those teams every time they come to town.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-21-2010, 11:42 AM
A little post-cup update...

MLS have signed World Cup strikers Theirry Henry (France) to NY Red Bull and Blaise Nkufo (Switzerland) to Seattle Sounders.

Nery Castillo, a Mexican international, has signed with Chicago. Omar Bravo, also a Mexican international, is in negotiations with Kansas City.

LA Galaxy are currently in negotiations with Ronaldinho of AC Milan/Brazil, and NY Red Bull have just about signed Barcelona and Mexico veteran Rafael Marquez.

MLS is bringing in some firepower. NY/LA games should be wicked awesome. I'll go see both of those teams every time they come to town.

Name power maybe, firepower no

epicSocialism4tw
07-21-2010, 11:47 AM
Name power maybe, firepower no

You wouldnt want to watch AC Milan and Barcelona starters playing competitive football in your town?

epicSocialism4tw
07-23-2010, 10:30 PM
Barcelona's Rafael Marquez commits to NY:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1884/north-america/2010/07/23/2039178/barcelona-defender-rafael-marquez-to-join-thierry-henry-at

Mediator12
07-24-2010, 08:17 AM
Name power maybe, firepower no

These are some excellent players still. Not Didier Drogba or David Villa, but still better quality players than almost any other in MLS....

They need to get a few of these guys after the World Cup, and they did. I know I will absolutely go see Thierry Henry play first hand. I wish they would get Miroslav Klose to come over like Klinsmann did too. Not the best Club Player, but I would travel to see him play in MLS.

epicSocialism4tw
07-24-2010, 10:59 AM
These are some excellent players still. Not Didier Drogba or David Villa, but still better quality players than almost any other in MLS....

They need to get a few of these guys after the World Cup, and they did. I know I will absolutely go see Thierry Henry play first hand. I wish they would get Miroslav Klose to come over like Klinsmann did too. Not the best Club Player, but I would travel to see him play in MLS.

Supposedly MLS is working on contracts several other high end players. AC Milan doesnt want to let Ronaldinho go to MLS.

MLS has signed 24 year old Uruguayan national team midfielder Alvaro Fernandez who is just coming back from the best Uruguayan showing at the world cup in generations. He'll be playing with the Seattle Sounders. Seattle now has Swiss #10 Blaise Nkufo and Alvaro Fernandez, both of which saw PT in the World Cup.

MLS has also acquired Montenegro captain Branko Boskovich, of the former Yugoslav national team.

This is a good series of signings that is bringing momentum to the league. If they can snag a couple more DP's (I would really like Dallas to get in on this action), this will have been one of the more successful transfer periods in MLS history.

Champagne Powder
07-24-2010, 12:21 PM
McSkillet

Have you checked out ESPN3? There's a catalog of soccer games there from around the world.

Do you know of a good place to watch the English Premier League online? FOX's website charges $120 for a season package. That's not bad, but it's hard to commit to when you can watch La Liga on ESPN3 for free.

epicSocialism4tw
07-24-2010, 02:35 PM
McSkillet

Have you checked out ESPN3? There's a catalog of soccer games there from around the world.

Do you know of a good place to watch the English Premier League online? FOX's website charges $120 for a season package. That's not bad, but it's hard to commit to when you can watch La Liga on ESPN3 for free.

Check here on gamedays: atdhe.net

I watched a bunch of MLS, La Liga, and Prem games on there last year.

Requiem
07-24-2010, 02:36 PM
Currently suffering from PWCD. Post Wold Cup Depression. A few buddies and mine are going to attempt to save up some cash over the next four years in order to trek to Brazil for the coming festivities. Hope it can happen. :D

epicSocialism4tw
07-24-2010, 02:37 PM
Currently suffering from PWCD. Post Wold Cup Depression. A few buddies and mine are going to attempt to save up some cash over the next four years in order to trek to Brazil for the coming festivities. Hope it can happen. :D

Go for it. You will love it. The World Cup in Brazil may be the coolest world cup you'll ever get a chance to see. It will be massive. Maybe you can find a nice Brazilian woman to settle down with. ;D

atomicbloke
07-24-2010, 02:51 PM
Currently suffering from PWCD. Post Wold Cup Depression. A few buddies and mine are going to attempt to save up some cash over the next four years in order to trek to Brazil for the coming festivities. Hope it can happen. :D

I'll be there.

Plan everything well in advance and you will save tons on money.

I decided to go to South Africa at the last moment and it turned out way too expensive.

Brazil is a large country, so you can't do impromptu city hopping on trains. You will have to plan out your entire itinerary, hotel accommodations and internal air tickets well in advance. Or else it can get super expensive.

atomicbloke
07-24-2010, 02:53 PM
McSkillet

Have you checked out ESPN3? There's a catalog of soccer games there from around the world.

Do you know of a good place to watch the English Premier League online? FOX's website charges $120 for a season package. That's not bad, but it's hard to commit to when you can watch La Liga on ESPN3 for free.

Link please?

I would be interested in this. Will they cover all games?

Requiem
07-24-2010, 02:55 PM
I'll be there.

Plan everything well in advance and you will save tons on money.

I decided to go to South Africa at the last moment and it turned out way too expensive.

Brazil is a large country, so you can't do impromptu city hopping on trains. You will have to plan out your entire itinerary, hotel accommodations and internal air tickets well in advance. Or else it can get super expensive.

Thanks for the tip AB, and for the kind words McSkillet. Four years is a long ways away, but can't help but plan ahead too soon. Still looking for employment post-graduation, but hopefully I can land this teaching gig real soon and that'd help a lot.

Been playing a lot of soccer lately with a lot of Hispanics who have moved to the area around here. Needless to say, they take their game seriously and wamp our asses. I can't even keep up. I had to go and kick the ball around with the high schoolers a bit to relieve myself and feel better about my skills. :yayaya:

gyldenlove
07-24-2010, 04:27 PM
I'll be there.

Plan everything well in advance and you will save tons on money.

I decided to go to South Africa at the last moment and it turned out way too expensive.

Brazil is a large country, so you can't do impromptu city hopping on trains. You will have to plan out your entire itinerary, hotel accommodations and internal air tickets well in advance. Or else it can get super expensive.

Brazil is also a real mixed bag of nuts, there is a very real danger of being kidnapped or mugged if you get into the wrong cab on the other hand the tourist areas are amazing. I am sure they will be stepping up security in 4 years like South Africa did though.

Depending which groups you are going to follow closely, my advice would be either the Natal, Recife and Fortaleza area, you could drive between those if you wanted to, or of course the Rio, Campinas and Sau Paulo area, I am guessing Brazil will play in a group in one of those cities, you could also get between those with the new planned highspeed rail system and avoid plane tickets.

Just hope your team is not in Manaus.

epicSocialism4tw
07-24-2010, 04:58 PM
Thanks for the tip AB, and for the kind words McSkillet. Four years is a long ways away, but can't help but plan ahead too soon. Still looking for employment post-graduation, but hopefully I can land this teaching gig real soon and that'd help a lot.

Been playing a lot of soccer lately with a lot of Hispanics who have moved to the area around here. Needless to say, they take their game seriously and wamp our asses. I can't even keep up. I had to go and kick the ball around with the high schoolers a bit to relieve myself and feel better about my skills. :yayaya:

I play with alot of hispanic guys in pickup games. Its funny because they look at you like youre a gringo alien when you walk onto the field.

One time I walked up and guys were knocking shots at the goal. I walked out a little past the 18, set up, waited for my turn and ripped a shot. All the guys where looking at me like "goodness...who brought the gringo". It was one of those moments where you hit the ball just perfect. It would have taken me 10 more shots to repeat it, but I hit a right-footed inswinging curler that left the keeper flat-footed and literally went right into the upper 90 where it promptly ripped a hole in the net. All of the hispanic guys turned around and looked. You could see their opinion instantly change. I didnt take another shot until we got the game on. ;D

DBruleU
07-24-2010, 11:21 PM
McSkillet

Have you checked out ESPN3? There's a catalog of soccer games there from around the world.

Do you know of a good place to watch the English Premier League online? FOX's website charges $120 for a season package. That's not bad, but it's hard to commit to when you can watch La Liga on ESPN3 for free.

Does ESPN3 only cover La Liga, or will they show Serie A and Premiership matches?

I'm debating whether or not to continue with FSC on my cable plan, or to try and get something on ESPN3, or another network that shows Premiership. All I mainly care about is the EPL.

epicSocialism4tw
07-25-2010, 01:00 PM
I'll probably jinx them by saying this, but NYRB are killing Man. City right now. Theyre winning 1-0, but they are dominating play. Thierry Henry is literally causing their back line all sorts of problems and looks like the best player on the field by a mile.

atomicbloke
07-25-2010, 04:21 PM
I'll probably jinx them by saying this, but NYRB are killing Man. City right now. Theyre winning 1-0, but they are dominating play. Thierry Henry is literally causing their back line all sorts of problems and looks like the best player on the field by a mile.

I can't believe I am saying this but I am slowly becoming an MLS fan.

I was always a soccer Eurosnob and for good reason. My last foray in to the MLS was when it was still Mickey Mouse stuff, with the backwards clock and the silly pandering to non-fans by doing away with ties.

But thankfully they have gotten rid of all that non-sense. And the quality of play lately has improved by a mile in terms of both technique and strategy / tactics. I was impressed to see most players have a good first touch now, that was sorely lacking a few years ago.

And the passion of the fans has been a real eye-opener. I am not exaggerating when I say that American soccer fans have as much passion as any European league now, and just behind the South American leagues.

And this has translated to the World Cup fan groups as well. I remember going to Italia 1990, with my stepbrothers (rip) and there weren't more than 10 fans for Team USA. There were probably 50 in France 1998, at least 5,000 in Korea/Japan 2002 and definitely 20,000+ in South Africa this time. Fan groups from Argentina and Brazil actually take the American Outlaws and Sam's Army seriously now, and the English, German, Dutch, Spanish, Italian fan groups are rightfully envious that Team USA now out draws them in passionate fan support.

epicSocialism4tw
07-25-2010, 06:14 PM
I can't believe I am saying this but I am slowly becoming an MLS fan.

I was always a soccer Eurosnob and for good reason. My last foray in to the MLS was when it was still Mickey Mouse stuff, with the backwards clock and the silly pandering to non-fans by doing away with ties.

But thankfully they have gotten rid of all that non-sense. And the quality of play lately has improved by a mile in terms of both technique and strategy / tactics. I was impressed to see most players have a good first touch now, that was sorely lacking a few years ago.

And the passion of the fans has been a real eye-opener. I am not exaggerating when I say that American soccer fans have as much passion as any European league now, and just behind the South American leagues.

And this has translated to the World Cup fan groups as well. I remember going to Italia 1990, with my stepbrothers (rip) and there weren't more than 10 fans for Team USA. There were probably 50 in France 1998, at least 5,000 in Korea/Japan 2002 and definitely 20,000+ in South Africa this time. Fan groups from Argentina and Brazil actually take the American Outlaws and Sam's Army seriously now, and the English, German, Dutch, Spanish, Italian fan groups are rightfully envious that Team USA now out draws them in passionate fan support.

The quality of play has increased because of the influx of good young American players. Sir Alex Ferguson said the same thing today before they played Kansas City. This league is only going to get better and better and better and eventually it will be the league to play in if you are anywhere in the Americas. This league will be the Prem of the Americas...it will draw the best of the best from Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Uruguay, USA, etc, etc.

epicSocialism4tw
07-25-2010, 06:24 PM
10-man Kansas City beat Manchester United 2-1.

Kansas City went up 1-0 with a nicely engineered goal that broke the Man U back line and set Davy Arnaud one v. one with the keeper and he scored a well-composed goal.

Man U leveled on great combination between Giggs and Berbatov (Dimitar is a brilliant player...super smart), where Jimmy Conrad got beat, took out Berbatov's legs, gave up a penalty, and got red-carded in the process. Berbatov slotted home the PK.

Then 10-man KC scored the game-winner with a Kamara well-taken header on a corner kick.

I highly suggest checking out the highlights of the NYRB goals...the game winner was an absolute beauty worthy of praise in any league around the world.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/

atomicbloke
07-25-2010, 06:59 PM
The quality of play has increased because of the influx of good young American players. Sir Alex Ferguson said the same thing today before they played Kansas City. This league is only going to get better and better and better and eventually it will be the league to play in if you are anywhere in the Americas. This league will be the Prem of the Americas...it will draw the best of the best from Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Uruguay, USA, etc, etc.

Agree with everything except that.

Let's not get too far ahead dude.

For that to happen, the CONCACAF Champions League has to become bigger than the Copa Libertadores, and we all know the world will end before that.

And it will be several millenia before any Argentine or Brazilian professional will prefer playing before American fans instead of this....

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epicSocialism4tw
07-25-2010, 07:24 PM
Agree with everything except that.

Let's not get too far ahead dude.

For that to happen, the CONCACAF Champions League has to become bigger than the Copa Libertadores, and we all know the world will end before that.

And it will be several millenia before any Argentine or Brazilian professional will prefer playing before American fans instead of this....


Oh, I agree. River/Boca is the premeir sports rivalry in the world, IMO. Brazilians and Argentinians already complain that their players choose to leave home too easily "because of the money".

MLS has already staked a good claim in Colombia and Brazil. Some of the best Columbian players spend their time in MLS and MLS regularly develops young talent from Palermo, Flamengo, etc.

Ultimately, the United States is a massive sports market in a big country with alot of great places to live that tax you less than most other countries (unless you play for one of the teams from Canada), and playing in a league here gives players from other countries an opportunity to move their families somewhere that is safer and generally has a higher standard of living. Its an opportunity like few others in the world.

When the pay in MLS equals or surpasses that of the major euro squads, the players will come here instead. Why live and play in cold, rainly London as a Brazilian when you can play in the Bay Area or LA or Manhattan?

atomicbloke
07-25-2010, 07:47 PM
When the pay in MLS equals or surpasses that of the major euro squads, the players will come here instead. Why live and play in cold, rainly London as a Brazilian when you can play in the Bay Area or LA or Manhattan?

Currently, the entire salary cap of an MLS roster is $350,000, except the DP. Messi alone makes more than that during his pee break.

Each midfielder in the Barcelona lineup makes more money than Peyton Manning. Even a bench warmer on a mid-table team in Europe makes in the several millions.

So I don't see how MLS wages can ever top that. Even NFL pay isn't at those levels.

epicSocialism4tw
07-25-2010, 07:50 PM
Currently, the entire salary cap of an MLS roster is $350,000, except the DP. Messi alone makes more than that during his pee break.

Each midfielder in the Barcelona lineup makes more money than Peyton Manning. Even a bench warmer on a mid-table team in Europe makes in the several millions.

So I don't see how MLS wages can ever top that. Even NFL pay isn't at those levels.

NFL teams support a salary of 53 players.

Look at NBA salaries by comparison, which are considerably more lucrative than NFL salaries. MLS squads keep what...23 players?

TomServo
07-25-2010, 11:29 PM
even with the Best soccer player ever playing in the US-pele NY Cosmos or the most popular-beckam America still hates soccer. sorry world soccer is boring and sucks and the usa will never embrace it.

epicSocialism4tw
07-26-2010, 03:05 AM
even with the Best soccer player ever playing in the US-pele NY Cosmos or the most popular-beckam America still hates soccer. sorry world soccer is boring and sucks and the usa will never embrace it.

It has passed you by and you missed it.

Mediator12
07-26-2010, 08:12 AM
even with the Best soccer player ever playing in the US-pele NY Cosmos or the most popular-beckam America still hates soccer. sorry world soccer is boring and sucks and the usa will never embrace it.

Times are a changing. As my generation has grown up with soccer, more and more fans are prevalent in the US. As my generation replaces the boomers, it will get more recognition.

Soccer is not a boring sport at all, its actually more active than Basketball, but much harder to finish scoring wise. Soccer suffers from people not knowing the game and worse hating it becuase they do not understand.

Baseball, Golf, and Auto racing are completely boring compared to watching Soccer, yet they draw HUGE followings in the US based on participation, knowledge of the game, and prestige. I know Baseball was Americas pastime once, my grandfather played fast pitch into his fifties. However, baseball is dwindling in the US in participation while soccer has almost surpassed it. The sports landscape in the US has changed and it is continuing to change very slowly. It might be 10 more years before Americans buy into as a mainstream sport.

However, the one thing Soccer has that football does not is a large contingent of Girls playing that are going to be fans. I know a lot of women who have played and are bigger fans than their husbands. Football will never have that.

TonyR
07-26-2010, 08:34 AM
However, baseball is dwindling in the US in participation while soccer has almost surpassed it. The sports landscape in the US has changed and it is continuing to change very slowly. It might be 10 more years before Americans buy into as a mainstream sport.

It is my understanding that soccer has been the number one youth sport in the U.S. in terms of participation for many years now. However this does not translate into its viability as a mainstream spectator/commercial sport. I don't think soccer will ever become a big time spectator/commercial sport in this country.

A good read linked below on this topic. Some of you will laugh at the source but there are some very good thoughts and points here. Read in particular questions 18 and 20.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100701

epicSocialism4tw
07-26-2010, 12:03 PM
Times are a changing. As my generation has grown up with soccer, more and more fans are prevalent in the US. As my generation replaces the boomers, it will get more recognition.

Soccer is not a boring sport at all, its actually more active than Basketball, but much harder to finish scoring wise. Soccer suffers from people not knowing the game and worse hating it becuase they do not understand.

Baseball, Golf, and Auto racing are completely boring compared to watching Soccer, yet they draw HUGE followings in the US based on participation, knowledge of the game, and prestige. I know Baseball was Americas pastime once, my grandfather played fast pitch into his fifties. However, baseball is dwindling in the US in participation while soccer has almost surpassed it. The sports landscape in the US has changed and it is continuing to change very slowly. It might be 10 more years before Americans buy into as a mainstream sport.

However, the one thing Soccer has that football does not is a large contingent of Girls playing that are going to be fans. I know a lot of women who have played and are bigger fans than their husbands. Football will never have that.

36K+ attended last nights MLS match between Colorado and Seattle. Thats almost 10k more people than the Mariners average.

I watched the game on FSC, and it was a highly contested and well-played match with alot of good soccer. The quality of play on the field is climbing more and more because of the young players who are growing into stars. A few years back there were only a few young stars in the league...Dempsey, Edu, etc. Now theyre on every team. Montero on Seattle is particularly interesting...he's an outstanding young forward. Zakuani for Seattle and Cunningham for Colorado are impressive youngsters as well. In Dallas we have Brek Shea and Zach Lloyd. In DC its Bill Hamid.

I watched the Salt Lake game the other night and was impressed with their posession football. Kyle Beckerman was outstanding.

The league's quality is better than its given credit for. DC United, one of the poorer teams in MLS, slaughtered Portsmouth 4-0 in a laugher the other day. KC beat Man U with 10 men. Granted its preseason for those Euro teams, the MLS teams used the games to get everyone on their bench PT against that level of quality and many times the bench players on the MLS teams still had the run of play.

DBruleU
07-26-2010, 01:33 PM
36K+ attended last nights MLS match between Colorado and Seattle. Thats almost 10k more people than the Mariners average.

I watched the game on FSC, and it was a highly contested and well-played match with alot of good soccer. The quality of play on the field is climbing more and more because of the young players who are growing into stars. A few years back there were only a few young stars in the league...Dempsey, Edu, etc. Now theyre on every team. Montero on Seattle is particularly interesting...he's an outstanding young forward. Zakuani for Seattle and Cunningham for Colorado are impressive youngsters as well. In Dallas we have Brek Shea and Zach Lloyd. In DC its Bill Hamid.

I watched the Salt Lake game the other night and was impressed with their posession football. Kyle Beckerman was outstanding.

The league's quality is better than its given credit for. DC United, one of the poorer teams in MLS, slaughtered Portsmouth 4-0 in a laugher the other day. KC beat Man U with 10 men. Granted its preseason for those Euro teams, the MLS teams used the games to get everyone on their bench PT against that level of quality and many times the bench players on the MLS teams still had the run of play.

That game was pretty entertaining. I'm one of the people who over the years has really not been into the MLS, but follow very closely the European leagues. I've only been to a handful of Rapids games over the years.

Last nights game impressed me, not only in the quality of play, but also the crowd was one of the things I noticed right away. I couldn't believe how large and loud the crowd was. It seems every time I do see a Seattle game on TV they have one of the larger MLS crowds. Seattle is a great soccer city. When I played in Cups there in HS they always had some of the best competition around. Coming from CO, where I think the soccer competition is some of the best in country, Seattle surprised me.

Also, Conor Caseys head got really jacked up last night. Seeing a bald dudes head bleed like that was interesting.

Phantom
07-26-2010, 02:53 PM
Changing the subject slightly ... Women's World Cup - USA lost to Nigeria on penalty kicks. Why did the Nigerian player get three staight kicks after missing the first two? Something the USA goalie did to negate the attempt? Not real familiar with the rules, but caught the end of the game and was wondering. Anyone else see this?

Mediator12
07-26-2010, 03:26 PM
It is my understanding that soccer has been the number one youth sport in the U.S. in terms of participation for many years now. However this does not translate into its viability as a mainstream spectator/commercial sport. I don't think soccer will ever become a big time spectator/commercial sport in this country.

A good read linked below on this topic. Some of you will laugh at the source but there are some very good thoughts and points here. Read in particular questions 18 and 20.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100701

The whole reason Soccer suffers in this country is that the decision makers have no idea or understanding in the sport. The same guy who forks out 20K a year on Football and baseball Season tix for his business is going to be retiring pretty soon.

The difference in the US will be when corporate and broadcast revenues shift to younger decision makers who like Soccer and want it to succeed more than getting MLB tix. That is the demographic that will continue to change the current sports landscape. Just wait until Corporate execs have to forego their fancy suites and prime club seats at NFL games because shareholders will no longer tolerate corporate excess spending for execs. It's coming before we truly get out of this recession......

Mediator12
07-26-2010, 03:28 PM
Changing the subject slightly ... Women's World Cup - USA lost to Nigeria on penalty kicks. Why did the Nigerian player get three staight kicks after missing the first two? Something the USA goalie did to negate the attempt? Not real familiar with the rules, but caught the end of the game and was wondering. Anyone else see this?

The GK can not move off the goal line before the ball is kicked on a penalty kick. It is real rare for a Referee to call that once, let alone twice unless its a truly egregious error by the GK. That must have been the case.

TonyR
07-26-2010, 03:48 PM
The whole reason Soccer suffers in this country...

Lot's of problems, one of the largest being that the flow of the game doesn't allow for breaks in the action to allow for television timeouts. And without TV timeouts there are no commercials. And without commercials the whole thing is a non-starter. So the game has to change for this and several other reasons.

broncocalijohn
07-26-2010, 04:51 PM
It is over. Be done with it. Geez.

epicSocialism4tw
07-27-2010, 08:20 PM
Sir Alex Ferguson on MLS:

"The progress is obvious," Ferguson said. "We realized that in the game against Philadelphia and just as much against Kansas City. There's a massive improvement in the organization and standard of play. That would be the reason I think they're ready to play the best teams in Europe now."

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5414359/alex-ferguson-manchester-united-sees-progress-major-league-soccer

Chris
07-27-2010, 08:46 PM
In review I was quite disappointed with the world cup this year. There weren't a ton of great games... and the lesser team seemed to come out of the PK matches.

epicSocialism4tw
07-27-2010, 09:00 PM
In review I was quite disappointed with the world cup this year. There weren't a ton of great games... and the lesser team seemed to come out of the PK matches.

I thought it was excellent.

I'm sure that it will be remembered less-than-fondly by many seeing as England, Italy, and France were such massive embarrassments and the snobs from those countries think that they own the sport.

I'm glad that Spain won. They deserved it.

There were several fun stories in the WC. It just so happens that none of them involved the usual suspects (except for Germany).

Requiem
07-27-2010, 10:29 PM
I thought it was a solid cup. Just disappointed the Dutch didn't take it home. Spain was very deserving though.

That One Guy
07-28-2010, 03:53 AM
In review I was quite disappointed with the world cup this year. There weren't a ton of great games... and the lesser team seemed to come out of the PK matches.

I agree to an extent. I thought the number of balls played near the 6 yard box that ended up in the stands was disgraceful but the players blamed it on the ball. I've never seen so many completely off target shots. The US team had some drama but their play was generally wretched. Officiating was downright horrible as what got cards in one game didn't even get a free kick in another. The number of blown offsides calls was absolutely stunning as THAT should be a science with the current referee formation. I also think the refs need to learn how to effectively play the advantage rule. I heard no less than 3 times the announcers state that if the player in question had taken a dive, that would absolutely be a penalty kick/card/etc. If the player had to dive to get the most advantageous call, the refs aren't playing the rule right.

I know most of these things aren't any different than past years but as technology gets better and we can get more angles for better reviews, the errors are just going to be highlighted more. They need to rethink a lot of things and the focus on those errors made this a forgettable world cup. That and the sucky Americans...

That One Guy
07-28-2010, 03:56 AM
I thought it was a solid cup. Just disappointed the Dutch didn't take it home. Spain was very deserving though.

I was kind of the opposite as the bandwagon for the Dutch was overflowing. I'd hear people cheering for the Dutch and would want to ask if they even knew where to find their homeland on a globe. People seemed to fall in love with them for no real reason and it was bandwagoning like you'd only see in southern California.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2010, 04:38 AM
I agree to an extent. I thought the number of balls played near the 6 yard box that ended up in the stands was disgraceful but the players blamed it on the ball. I've never seen so many completely off target shots. The US team had some drama but their play was generally wretched. Officiating was downright horrible as what got cards in one game didn't even get a free kick in another. The number of blown offsides calls was absolutely stunning as THAT should be a science with the current referee formation. I also think the refs need to learn how to effectively play the advantage rule. I heard no less than 3 times the announcers state that if the player in question had taken a dive, that would absolutely be a penalty kick/card/etc. If the player had to dive to get the most advantageous call, the refs aren't playing the rule right.

I know most of these things aren't any different than past years but as technology gets better and we can get more angles for better reviews, the errors are just going to be highlighted more. They need to rethink a lot of things and the focus on those errors made this a forgettable world cup. That and the sucky Americans...

Interesting take. I'd say that the world cup did alot in raising respect levels for US players, the US system, and MLS around the world. This US team actually defined themselves as something tangible (a mentally strong, smart, prapared team) instead of an amorphous also-ran. They finished 1st in their group ahead of England and arguably were the team to snuff out English hopes by doing so.

I agree that the officiating was terrible and it was possibly worse for the US than it was for any other team in the tournament.

SleepingTiger
07-28-2010, 06:07 AM
I was kind of the opposite as the bandwagon for the Dutch was overflowing. I'd hear people cheering for the Dutch and would want to ask if they even knew where to find their homeland on a globe. People seemed to fall in love with them for no real reason and it was bandwagoning like you'd only see in southern California.

I for one thought the Oranje deserved to win it more than any other country. Especially with the talent the Dutch had for the past 50years. Cryuff, Van Basten, Gullit, Overmars, Rikaard, Winter, Bergkamp, Neeskens, de Boer, Nistelroy, Stam, Robben, Schneider. Not only that, they probably have the best coach on the pitch in Guus Hiddink.

with that said, Spain had the most talent in this years world cup. they dominated every team they played this year. They were so dominant that the Oranje had to play dirty in order to get them off their game.

Homer Simpson
07-28-2010, 06:20 AM
The final was such a huge disappointment, but that is often the case.

SleepingTiger
07-28-2010, 06:58 AM
The final was such a huge disappointment, but that is often the case.

how was it a huge disappointment? i thought it was a good game

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2010, 07:00 AM
how was it a huge disappointment? i thought it was a good game

Me too.

The only thing disappointing about it to me is that the Dutch started playing American football instead of soccer.

Mediator12
07-28-2010, 07:14 AM
how was it a huge disappointment? i thought it was a good game

It was a huge disappointment for me because both Spain and Holland are quite capable of playing like Germany and Uruguay did in the third place game. However, both teams played an extremely aggressive defensive style fearing the others ability to counter attack or even build up. Neither team would allow any creativity at all early and then both teams attacked super conservatively for the majority of the game, not wanting to let an error be the only goal.

With the excellent standards of play until then, the final was disappointing but expected as the stakes were so high for both nations. In the end, Spain prevailed by simply being patient and getting lucky that Robben choked twice. Not a great game, but still great soccer. That is something most average fans choose not to understand.

That One Guy
07-28-2010, 07:20 AM
Interesting take. I'd say that the world cup did alot in raising respect levels for US players, the US system, and MLS around the world. This US team actually defined themselves as something tangible (a mentally strong, smart, prapared team) instead of an amorphous also-ran. They finished 1st in their group ahead of England and arguably were the team to snuff out English hopes by doing so.

I agree that the officiating was terrible and it was possibly worse for the US than it was for any other team in the tournament.

The US got a lot of respect on the surface but I thought beneath that, it was terrible. That game against Ghana in the knockout rounds was played without guts. When the game was tied early on, the US looked terrible. Then Ghana scored. The US came back from halftime and lit the stadium on fire. They scored and we thought, "here we go, take it away boys" and they went to playing horribly again. I know Lalas for one said that had the 30 mins of extra time been played without a break then the US would've won it but I saw a very notable drop off in their play once that tying goal was scored. Then take into account their play in that extra time and they didn't even look like they deserved to be on the field.

The tie against England was a lousy shot that could easily be blamed on the ball. If you ever rely on mistakes like Green's to get anywhere in WC play, you wont be playing long. The stars aligned and we had some luck for the US team but to say they deserved to tie England is a stretch. The game against Slovenia was an excellently played game on the US part. Algeria already knew they weren't advancing when they finally pushed players into the attack and we scored. Had they done what was talked about beforehand and just been content with taking the US down with them, we wouldn't have advanced.

The overall mental errors of the coach doesn't even need to be explained, I don't think. The coach and the dartboard he used for player lineups should've been left in South Africa.

That One Guy
07-28-2010, 07:25 AM
I for one thought the Oranje deserved to win it more than any other country. Especially with the talent the Dutch had for the past 50years. Cryuff, Van Basten, Gullit, Overmars, Rikaard, Winter, Bergkamp, Neeskens, de Boer, Nistelroy, Stam, Robben, Schneider. Not only that, they probably have the best coach on the pitch in Guus Hiddink.

with that said, Spain had the most talent in this years world cup. they dominated every team they played this year. They were so dominant that the Oranje had to play dirty in order to get them off their game.

I understand that but Spain is another of the world soccer powerhouses and they had never won a cup either. This was going to be a first for either but the bandwagon was completely in favor of the Netherlands. Spain fans in the final seemed to be Spain fans before the tournament. I don't know that I heard a single person rooting for Spain who was a neutral observer to the game. That was a shame, I thought.

That One Guy
07-28-2010, 07:28 AM
how was it a huge disappointment? i thought it was a good game

As Med essentially stated, the teams played for a tie and waited for the other team to make a mistake. How exciting would a basketball game be if they only pushed 2 guys down court and waited for a layup to develop before they tried to score?

If you make it to the WC finals, you should be laying it all on the line to come away with the win. You should be confident in your ability to beat your opponent - not try to stay in the game long enough for them to lose it. Both teams tried to make their opponent lose rather than take charge and win it.

That One Guy
07-28-2010, 07:32 AM
It was a huge disappointment for me because both Spain and Holland are quite capable of playing like Germany and Uruguay did in the third place game. However, both teams played an extremely aggressive defensive style fearing the others ability to counter attack or even build up. Neither team would allow any creativity at all early and then both teams attacked super conservatively for the majority of the game, not wanting to let an error be the only goal.

With the excellent standards of play until then, the final was disappointing but expected as the stakes were so high for both nations. In the end, Spain prevailed by simply being patient and getting lucky that Robben choked twice. Not a great game, but still great soccer. That is something most average fans choose not to understand.

That's a matter of opinion, I think. There's some people who will look at a 7-3 football game and admire it as a defensive struggle but I think of it as a pretty ****ty offensive game. If you're unable to score, that constitutes a failure of a gameplan, an offense as a whole, and all your playmakers to out-will the opponent to make something happen. At least in football, a defensive struggle can be exciting through big hits and an overpowering defense. In soccer, that comes across as an attacking team that can't move the ball properly and a team that's so caught up in keeping players on defense that no fast counter-attacks can ever occur. Defensive struggles in football generally suck but a defensive struggle in soccer is like plucking ball hairs.

SleepingTiger
07-28-2010, 08:05 AM
It was a huge disappointment for me because both Spain and Holland are quite capable of playing like Germany and Uruguay did in the third place game. However, both teams played an extremely aggressive defensive style fearing the others ability to counter attack or even build up. Neither team would allow any creativity at all early and then both teams attacked super conservatively for the majority of the game, not wanting to let an error be the only goal.

With the excellent standards of play until then, the final was disappointing but expected as the stakes were so high for both nations. In the end, Spain prevailed by simply being patient and getting lucky that Robben choked twice. Not a great game, but still great soccer. That is something most average fans choose not to understand.

third place games are always high scoring because nobody cares about being 3rd. they just want to play a good open game. that is a horrible plan if you play in the finals. the stakes are alot higher.

i don't understand the gripe at all with spain. they played their game from beginning of tournament to the final game. all teams that played spain have to resort to a more defensive game and hope for a lucky counter or penalty shoot out. any team that looks to attack spain will loose 3-0. look at Germany, the highest scoring team in world cup, but had to resort to the same tactics of defend and counter.

SleepingTiger
07-28-2010, 08:08 AM
As Med essentially stated, the teams played for a tie and waited for the other team to make a mistake. How exciting would a basketball game be if they only pushed 2 guys down court and waited for a layup to develop before they tried to score?

If you make it to the WC finals, you should be laying it all on the line to come away with the win. You should be confident in your ability to beat your opponent - not try to stay in the game long enough for them to lose it. Both teams tried to make their opponent lose rather than take charge and win it.

spain was playing their game of patiently probing to find weakness and attack. i don't remember seeing spain drop back and defend.

the dutch knew they were out gunned and out classed. they were forced to defend and play dirty with the exception of van bommel, as he is always dirty.

SleepingTiger
07-28-2010, 08:13 AM
I understand that but Spain is another of the world soccer powerhouses and they had never won a cup either. This was going to be a first for either but the bandwagon was completely in favor of the Netherlands. Spain fans in the final seemed to be Spain fans before the tournament. I don't know that I heard a single person rooting for Spain who was a neutral observer to the game. That was a shame, I thought.

i never thought of spain was a powerhouse in world soccer. they had teams that should of taken it further in the world cup, but i always thought they were good but never good enough.

oranje on the other hand is a definite powerhouse. they should of beaten west germany and argentina, it wasn't their fault the played the host nation both times in the final. they were always the better team that couldn't win it all.

i was rooting for spain from the onset. after watching euro cup, i thought they were fantastic. i so much wanted them to play brazil and completely dominate them like they did throughout the WC.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-28-2010, 08:17 AM
It was a huge disappointment for me because both Spain and Holland are quite capable of playing like Germany and Uruguay did in the third place game. However, both teams played an extremely aggressive defensive style fearing the others ability to counter attack or even build up. Neither team would allow any creativity at all early and then both teams attacked super conservatively for the majority of the game, not wanting to let an error be the only goal.

With the excellent standards of play until then, the final was disappointing but expected as the stakes were so high for both nations. In the end, Spain prevailed by simply being patient and getting lucky that Robben choked twice. Not a great game, but still great soccer. That is something most average fans choose not to understand.

Im not sure that's really fair. The strange thing about the second breakaway is that Robben was actually fouled pretty badly from behind but, for once in his life, he actually stayed on two feet. If Robben did what he normally does, fall, its a red card, penalty shot, maybe the netherlands wins the game. Having said that, the dude played his friggin ass off that entire game. All over the field, just didnt get it done.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-28-2010, 08:22 AM
The US got a lot of respect on the surface but I thought beneath that, it was terrible. That game against Ghana in the knockout rounds was played without guts. When the game was tied early on, the US looked terrible. Then Ghana scored. The US came back from halftime and lit the stadium on fire. They scored and we thought, "here we go, take it away boys" and they went to playing horribly again. I know Lalas for one said that had the 30 mins of extra time been played without a break then the US would've won it but I saw a very notable drop off in their play once that tying goal was scored. Then take into account their play in that extra time and they didn't even look like they deserved to be on the field.

The tie against England was a lousy shot that could easily be blamed on the ball. If you ever rely on mistakes like Green's to get anywhere in WC play, you wont be playing long. The stars aligned and we had some luck for the US team but to say they deserved to tie England is a stretch. The game against Slovenia was an excellently played game on the US part. Algeria already knew they weren't advancing when they finally pushed players into the attack and we scored. Had they done what was talked about beforehand and just been content with taking the US down with them, we wouldn't have advanced.

The overall mental errors of the coach doesn't even need to be explained, I don't think. The coach and the dartboard he used for player lineups should've been left in South Africa.

The US showed why they are a much inferior soccer team to much of the top clubs. We have zero creativity and touch in the box..pretty much a kick and chase team that tries to out athleticize others...and that really showed against Ghana who was a more athletic team than us. We could probably use a Euro coach and maybe, just maybe, some young American athletes might take up soccer...though im not sure that'll ever happen. on that note, I'm sure there is some amazing soccer talent in America that's just never discovered. If youre a poor black kid in America but can really ball on the court, chances are, somewhere along the lines, you get discovered and your talent is cultivated. This is a country FULL of immigrants but I'm sure great soccer talent is rarely found among them because the soccer infrastructure just isnt there.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2010, 11:05 AM
The US showed why they are a much inferior soccer team to much of the top clubs. We have zero creativity and touch in the box..pretty much a kick and chase team that tries to out athleticize others...and that really showed against Ghana who was a more athletic team than us.

Thats not entirely true. The US team plays nearly exactly like England. And they played England straight up to a draw. As for Ghana, that game was clearly dominated by the US team and had Tim Howard been able to have made a couple of routine saves, they would have kept a clean sheet and been in the quarters. The US finished ahead of England in the cup, so I think that you're mischaracterizing the team in an overly negative way.

We could probably use a Euro coach and maybe, just maybe, some young American athletes might take up soccer...though im not sure that'll ever happen.

It has been happening for years. It has been said that Donovan has nearly world-class sprinter speed. Clint Dempsey is probably the best US offensive midfielder ever to come down the pike and could have arguably played for the England team. Same for Cheruldolo, Gooch (when healthy), Howard, and Bradley.

on that note, I'm sure there is some amazing soccer talent in America that's just never discovered. If youre a poor black kid in America but can really ball on the court, chances are, somewhere along the lines, you get discovered and your talent is cultivated. This is a country FULL of immigrants but I'm sure great soccer talent is rarely found among them because the soccer infrastructure just isnt there.

Its not about the colors of the kids. Spain didnt win the world cup because theyre "brownish".

As for the inner city growth, its already there. You'll see in about 10 years just how many US kids have left inner city environments and are playing in Argentina, Italy, Germany, Holland, England, Mexico, Norway, Sweden, in MLS, etc., etc. I think that there are almost 400 right now.

What you are waiting for to happen has already happened. Its only a matter of time before this country plays in a WC final.

That One Guy
07-28-2010, 12:08 PM
i never thought of spain was a powerhouse in world soccer. they had teams that should of taken it further in the world cup, but i always thought they were good but never good enough.

oranje on the other hand is a definite powerhouse. they should of beaten west germany and argentina, it wasn't their fault the played the host nation both times in the final. they were always the better team that couldn't win it all.

i was rooting for spain from the onset. after watching euro cup, i thought they were fantastic. i so much wanted them to play brazil and completely dominate them like they did throughout the WC.

OK, I get what you're saying. I meant Spain is a soccer powerhouse in that they always have a great professional program up with the top leagues and that they always seem to be able to produce top tier teams. Now, whether they've ever produced teams that were the hands down best of the cup - they came pretty close this year but I can't really say for years past.

I was mainly saying they weren't a team like the US or Ghana were there isn't really a history of great soccer. They have a solid history, at least.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-28-2010, 12:13 PM
Thats not entirely true. The US team plays nearly exactly like England. And they played England straight up to a draw. As for Ghana, that game was clearly dominated by the US team and had Tim Howard been able to have made a couple of routine saves, they would have kept a clean sheet and been in the quarters. The US finished ahead of England in the cup, so I think that you're mischaracterizing the team in an overly negative way.



It has been happening for years. It has been said that Donovan has nearly world-class sprinter speed. Clint Dempsey is probably the best US offensive midfielder ever to come down the pike and could have arguably played for the England team. Same for Cheruldolo, Gooch (when healthy), Howard, and Bradley.



Its not about the colors of the kids. Spain didnt win the world cup because theyre "brownish".

As for the inner city growth, its already there. You'll see in about 10 years just how many US kids have left inner city environments and are playing in Argentina, Italy, Germany, Holland, England, Mexico, Norway, Sweden, in MLS, etc., etc. I think that there are almost 400 right now.

What you are waiting for to happen has already happened. Its only a matter of time before this country plays in a WC final.


I'm not sure how you think we play a lot like england, when England is much better, in general, at posessing the ball than we are and passing it within the box. (they had a **** tournament, but still, Rooney is a better player than anyone we have. Also, We had opportunities in the Ghana game, but we dominated? I dont think we were watching the same game.

Ill take your word on the soccer revolution happening in america. And i didnt say they had to be brown. But a lot of immigrants tend to be poor and if they grew up playing soccer in their home country, they might not be discovered here. The infrastructure is still not what it is for other sports and our best athletes still dont normally choose soccer.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2010, 03:53 PM
I'm not sure how you think we play a lot like england, when England is much better, in general, at posessing the ball than we are and passing it within the box. (they had a **** tournament, but still, Rooney is a better player than anyone we have. Also, We had opportunities in the Ghana game, but we dominated? I dont think we were watching the same game.

England wasnt as good as the US over the course of that tournmanet, and Landon Donovan was more than three times the player Wayne Rooney was. You can theorize all you want, but those were the results.

Ill take your word on the soccer revolution happening in america. And i didnt say they had to be brown. But a lot of immigrants tend to be poor and if they grew up playing soccer in their home country, they might not be discovered here.

Those days are in the past. There are literally 400 US youth in the U-20 pool who are spread out in leagues around the world. A significant U-16 forward just left the developmental squad at Chivas in Guadalajara to come back home to the US because Chivas wouldnt let him stay on the team if he didnt play for Mexico. He scored the only goal in a 1-0 US win over China a couple of days ago in Northern Ireland. He's a 6'3" forward (only 16 years old and 6'3") with feet that plays alot like Kaka. Thats just one kid. There are several.

The infrastructure is still not what it is for other sports and our best athletes still dont normally choose soccer.

The myth that good athletes dont play soccer is just that: a myth. There are plenty of excellent athletes that play professionally and collegiately in this country. Landon Donovan was highly prized as a young player because he had sprinter-grade acceleration and top-end speed. Michael Bradley's family is dotted with professional athletes and coaches. Oguchi Onyewu is a freak of an athlete and so is Tim Howard.

If you look at the US team that lined up today in the U-20 Milk Cup, you have a bunch of excellent athletes.

There are scores of players in other sports who couldnt hack it in soccer and made the switch to football or basketball. Dwight Freeney and Steve Nash being two easy names to rattle off.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-28-2010, 04:28 PM
England wasnt as good as the US over the course of that tournmanet, and Landon Donovan was more than three times the player Wayne Rooney was. You can theorize all you want, but those were the results.



Those days are in the past. There are literally 400 US youth in the U-20 pool who are spread out in leagues around the world. A significant U-16 forward just left the developmental squad at Chivas in Guadalajara to come back home to the US because Chivas wouldnt let him stay on the team if he didnt play for Mexico. He scored the only goal in a 1-0 US win over China a couple of days ago in Northern Ireland. He's a 6'3" forward (only 16 years old and 6'3") with feet that plays alot like Kaka. Thats just one kid. There are several.



The myth that good athletes dont play soccer is just that: a myth. There are plenty of excellent athletes that play professionally and collegiately in this country. Landon Donovan was highly prized as a young player because he had sprinter-grade acceleration and top-end speed. Michael Bradley's family is dotted with professional athletes and coaches. Oguchi Onyewu is a freak of an athlete and so is Tim Howard.

If you look at the US team that lined up today in the U-20 Milk Cup, you have a bunch of excellent athletes.

There are scores of players in other sports who couldnt hack it in soccer and made the switch to football or basketball. Dwight Freeney and Steve Nash being two easy names to rattle off.

I agree that Landon was better in the tournament, but if you had to start a team, you'd pick Landon over Rooney? Probably not. I know England was atrocious in the tournament, and to use them as a measuring stick to the rest of the world probably isnt the sword you want to fall on. That said, did America even have ONE pretty goal in the entire WC? I can't recall one. Kick and chase BS, luck, and penalty kicks. There was nothing all that pretty about our world cup.

And I'll defer to you on the future of US soccer, and I hope its true. It's sad that a country of three hundred million cant be more competitive in the sport, so it'd be cool to see that change (as fun as it is being the underdog), and while america has great athletes playing soccer, OUR best athletes dont. I'm sure all of brazils best athletes play soccer as children (cept for the real tall ones) and im sure the vast majority of good athletes get trained well in Europe too. Our best soccer players, im sure, are playing other sports. Think Allen Iverson, Rajon Rondo, Kobe even...etc...these are are lightening quick, ultra coordinated guys with exceptional vision. If they had grown up in Sweden or Germany, my guess is that they are introduced to soccer at a young age and their talent is cultivated from there. In america, because soccer is less popular, these guys choose different sports. This is not a fault of soccer, its just the way it is and what america embraced, and while i agree with you that we have good soccer players playing for us, if soccer were number one priority in america, with americas money, love of sports, and infrastructure, we'd be better than we are. This is undeniable.

epicSocialism4tw
07-28-2010, 06:54 PM
I agree that Landon was better in the tournament, but if you had to start a team, you'd pick Landon over Rooney? Probably not. I know England was atrocious in the tournament, and to use them as a measuring stick to the rest of the world probably isnt the sword you want to fall on. That said, did America even have ONE pretty goal in the entire WC? I can't recall one. Kick and chase BS, luck, and penalty kicks. There was nothing all that pretty about our world cup.

And I'll defer to you on the future of US soccer, and I hope its true. It's sad that a country of three hundred million cant be more competitive in the sport, so it'd be cool to see that change (as fun as it is being the underdog), and while america has great athletes playing soccer, OUR best athletes dont. I'm sure all of brazils best athletes play soccer as children (cept for the real tall ones) and im sure the vast majority of good athletes get trained well in Europe too. Our best soccer players, im sure, are playing other sports. Think Allen Iverson, Rajon Rondo, Kobe even...etc...these are are lightening quick, ultra coordinated guys with exceptional vision. If they had grown up in Sweden or Germany, my guess is that they are introduced to soccer at a young age and their talent is cultivated from there. In america, because soccer is less popular, these guys choose different sports. This is not a fault of soccer, its just the way it is and what america embraced, and while i agree with you that we have good soccer players playing for us, if soccer were number one priority in america, with americas money, love of sports, and infrastructure, we'd be better than we are. This is undeniable.

I dont think there is a better example than Steve Nash of a player that many would think would automatically succeed in soccer, but didnt. He got pushed into basketball because he wasnt as good of a soccer player even though his dad was an English pro.

I dont think that Iverson would be a good soccer player at all. There is just as much reason to believe that he wouldnt be one as there is to believe that he would.

Its hard for Americans to accept losing in sports, so many of us have to come up with a bunch of excuses and the easiest one to come up with is the "well, our best athletes dont play that sport" excuse when thats not it at all. Its more of a problem of exposure. We didnt have a pro league to develop players in for a long time. We didnt have good soccer on TV for kids to emulate the best in the world. Back when I played, you couldnt even get a game on TV...you had to travel to see the US play.

atomicbloke
07-28-2010, 09:31 PM
Our best soccer players, im sure, are playing other sports. Think Allen Iverson, Rajon Rondo, Kobe even...etc...these are are lightening quick, ultra coordinated guys with exceptional vision. If they had grown up in Sweden or Germany, my guess is that they are introduced to soccer at a young age and their talent is cultivated from there.

The single most important skill in soccer is a first touch.

Without a great first touch, you cannot play professional soccer, irrespective of how freakish your other attributes or skills are.

Having a good first touch is not a function of your athletic prowess, your height, your speed, how high you can jump, how many hours a day you practice, how many years you have practiced, or how intelligent you are. It is a skill by itself, just something that you either have or don't have.

Hence, any commentary of how an athlete from another sport would be a great soccer player is meaningless unless you provide some evidence that the athlete in question has a great first touch.

If you think Kobe would be the world's greatest soccer star had he grown up with soccer, then please show some videos or other evidence of why you think he has a great first touch. Otherwise your assertion is meaningless. You might as well argue that Kobe would be great at painting or music or poetry or golf had he taken up those vocations at an early age.

atomicbloke
07-28-2010, 09:41 PM
while america has great athletes playing soccer, OUR best athletes dont. I'm sure all of brazils best athletes play soccer as children (cept for the real tall ones) and im sure the vast majority of good athletes get trained well in Europe too. Our best soccer players, im sure, are playing other sports. Think Allen Iverson, Rajon Rondo, Kobe even...etc...these are are lightening quick, ultra coordinated guys with exceptional vision. If they had grown up in Sweden or Germany, my guess is that they are introduced to soccer at a young age and their talent is cultivated from there.

And if indeed everyone in America played only soccer and no other sport, then the soccer star would still be more likely to be 5'7" 150 lbs rather than 6'8'' 280 lbs.

America does not have an exclusivity on tall and big individuals. These individuals exist everywhere in the World. How come the world's greatest soccer stars are in the 5'7" to 5'10" range than the taller than 6'3" range?

Netherlands is the tallest country in the world with the average male height being 6'2". How come their top scorer in the World Cup was 5'7". Are their best athletes playing some other sport?

Spain basketball team is pretty good and their players are all above 6'5". So technically they are the Spain's "best athletes". How come they are not on the soccer team then? Spain midfield consisted of Xavi and Iniesta, both 5'8".

The fact is in most countries, its their "best soccer players" playing on the soccer team. Their "best athletes" are on their Olympic track and field teams. Just like USA. Skills are sports specific and its a fallacy to assume that someone who excels in one sport will automatically excel at another sport. We are talking about excelling, not mere playing, but playing at the top 0.0001% level in the world. That level of proficiency is not transferable between sports.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-28-2010, 11:09 PM
I dont think there is a better example than Steve Nash of a player that many would think would automatically succeed in soccer, but didnt. He got pushed into basketball because he wasnt as good of a soccer player even though his dad was an English pro.

I dont think that Iverson would be a good soccer player at all. There is just as much reason to believe that he wouldnt be one as there is to believe that he would.

Its hard for Americans to accept losing in sports, so many of us have to come up with a bunch of excuses and the easiest one to come up with is the "well, our best athletes dont play that sport" excuse when thats not it at all. Its more of a problem of exposure. We didnt have a pro league to develop players in for a long time. We didnt have good soccer on TV for kids to emulate the best in the world. Back when I played, you couldnt even get a game on TV...you had to travel to see the US play.

I 100 percent agree its an exposure problem but I think both of you are NUTS to think that those guys on the world cup team were the absolute best guys we'd have even if soccer was America's most popular sport. Our infrastructure is just not there and our best athletes gravitate towards other sports. In Europe, South America, soccer is a way of life. Here, its not even in the top 4 or 5 most popular sports. This is not me not accepting that America is bad at something, i think America is bad at tons of things, in fact im the first to admit it, but its as close as you can come to a fact that our best athletes are not playing soccer. And whether you agree with the Iverson comparison or not, point being, those lightning quick, incredibly coordinated players that would make amazing soccer players generally go play basketball or football as children. Perhaps that's starting to change, maybe not, but we'll see. Pointing out Steve Nash hardly trashes my argument. As you said, there's no exposure and there's definitely not a proper infrastracture. I know that in a country as large as ours, as wealthy as ours, and as a country that really cares about sports, that if soccer was our number one priority, we'd be a hell of a lot better at it.

atomicbloke
07-28-2010, 11:56 PM
I 100 percent agree its an exposure problem but I think both of you are NUTS to think that those guys on the world cup team were the absolute best guys we'd have even if soccer was America's most popular sport. Our infrastructure is just not there and our best athletes gravitate towards other sports. In Europe, South America, soccer is a way of life. Here, its not even in the top 4 or 5 most popular sports. This is not me not accepting that America is bad at something, i think America is bad at tons of things, in fact im the first to admit it, but its as close as you can come to a fact that our best athletes are not playing soccer. And whether you agree with the Iverson comparison or not, point being, those lightning quick, incredibly coordinated players that would make amazing soccer players generally go play basketball or football as children. Perhaps that's starting to change, maybe not, but we'll see. Pointing out Steve Nash hardly trashes my argument. As you said, there's no exposure and there's definitely not a proper infrastracture. I know that in a country as large as ours, as wealthy as ours, and as a country that really cares about sports, that if soccer was our number one priority, we'd be a hell of a lot better at it.

Again you have to specify what is a "best athlete". Is is someone who is the fastest, tallest, jump highest, best first touch or what?

Who exactly is the "best athlete" in USA? Is he playing in the NBA? or NFL? or is on the Olympic swimming team? or is he on the 100 meters sprint team? or is he a long distance runner? Or are they in to boxing?

Currently, the best soccer player in the world is Lionell Messi. He is 5'6" and 148 lbs. So is he the "best athlete" on the planet? Better than Usain Bolt? Or Thorpe? Or whoever won the Olympic marathon? The greatest soccer player ever was either Pele (5'8") or Maradona (5'6") depending on whom you ask. Were they better athletes than Jordan? Mike Tyson? Sebastian Coe? Parvo Nurmi? Mark Spitz? Pete Sampras?

You are trying to generalize all sports pros in to a generic "best athlete" theme. Sports proficiency comes from sports-specific skills.

I do believe that America's best athletes are on our Olympic track and field team. Our best basketball players are in the NBA. Our best swimmers are on the Olympic swimming team. Our best football players are in the NFL. And our best soccer players are on the USMNT.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-29-2010, 08:16 AM
Again you have to specify what is a "best athlete". Is is someone who is the fastest, tallest, jump highest, best first touch or what?

Who exactly is the "best athlete" in USA? Is he playing in the NBA? or NFL? or is on the Olympic swimming team? or is he on the 100 meters sprint team? or is he a long distance runner? Or are they in to boxing?

Currently, the best soccer player in the world is Lionell Messi. He is 5'6" and 148 lbs. So is he the "best athlete" on the planet? Better than Usain Bolt? Or Thorpe? Or whoever won the Olympic marathon? The greatest soccer player ever was either Pele (5'8") or Maradona (5'6") depending on whom you ask. Were they better athletes than Jordan? Mike Tyson? Sebastian Coe? Parvo Nurmi? Mark Spitz? Pete Sampras?

You are trying to generalize all sports pros in to a generic "best athlete" theme. Sports proficiency comes from sports-specific skills.

I do believe that America's best athletes are on our Olympic track and field team. Our best basketball players are in the NBA. Our best swimmers are on the Olympic swimming team. Our best football players are in the NFL. And our best soccer players are on the USMNT.

I'm saying best athletes in the sense of soccer skills, sorry i did not specify.As far as first touch is concerned, thats something thats also cultivated. We have many smaller athletes playing football and basketball that are lightning quick and ultra coordinated, but they do not choose to play soccer as children and aren't pushed towards it because of lack of exposure, infrastructure, etc etc. I'm pretty much just saying if Americans loved soccer as much as Brasil does, with our money and hunger for sport, you'd see more inner city kids playing it, you'd have better coaching, etc etc. Even these small americans who might be able to emulate Messi aren't playing soccer because they arent introduced to it. For example, where I grew up, none of the parents pushed their kids into soccer. in high school, the soccer team was consistently ridiculed by other athletes and mainly consisted of pot smoking hippies. Now as McSkillet mentioned, maybe things are starting to turn around for us as interest grows, but its not like these other countries are just lucky to have soccer players born within their borders. They are found at an early age and given similar care to basketball players and football players here, in some cases even more so.

Also, i disagree to a point that our best players happen to be playing the sports they play now. For example, I think our best tight ends are playing forward in the NBA. Imagine if LeBron James never picked up a basketball and only played football?

SleepingTiger
07-29-2010, 08:17 AM
Again you have to specify what is a "best athlete". Is is someone who is the fastest, tallest, jump highest, best first touch or what?

Who exactly is the "best athlete" in USA? Is he playing in the NBA? or NFL? or is on the Olympic swimming team? or is he on the 100 meters sprint team? or is he a long distance runner? Or are they in to boxing?

Currently, the best soccer player in the world is Lionell Messi. He is 5'6" and 148 lbs. So is he the "best athlete" on the planet? Better than Usain Bolt? Or Thorpe? Or whoever won the Olympic marathon? The greatest soccer player ever was either Pele (5'8") or Maradona (5'6") depending on whom you ask. Were they better athletes than Jordan? Mike Tyson? Sebastian Coe? Parvo Nurmi? Mark Spitz? Pete Sampras?

You are trying to generalize all sports pros in to a generic "best athlete" theme. Sports proficiency comes from sports-specific skills.

I do believe that America's best athletes are on our Olympic track and field team. Our best basketball players are in the NBA. Our best swimmers are on the Olympic swimming team. Our best football players are in the NFL. And our best soccer players are on the USMNT.

there was alot of questions regarding Messi and how effective he would be without his teamates from barcelona. at this point, i think the best player in the world is Xavi. he is the reason spain won and he is the reason why barcelona is so good. his vision and leadership rivals that of the great zidane.

SleepingTiger
07-29-2010, 09:06 AM
Again you have to specify what is a "best athlete". Is is someone who is the fastest, tallest, jump highest, best first touch or what?

Who exactly is the "best athlete" in USA? Is he playing in the NBA? or NFL? or is on the Olympic swimming team? or is he on the 100 meters sprint team? or is he a long distance runner? Or are they in to boxing?

Currently, the best soccer player in the world is Lionell Messi. He is 5'6" and 148 lbs. So is he the "best athlete" on the planet? Better than Usain Bolt? Or Thorpe? Or whoever won the Olympic marathon? The greatest soccer player ever was either Pele (5'8") or Maradona (5'6") depending on whom you ask. Were they better athletes than Jordan? Mike Tyson? Sebastian Coe? Parvo Nurmi? Mark Spitz? Pete Sampras?

You are trying to generalize all sports pros in to a generic "best athlete" theme. Sports proficiency comes from sports-specific skills.

I do believe that America's best athletes are on our Olympic track and field team. Our best basketball players are in the NBA. Our best swimmers are on the Olympic swimming team. Our best football players are in the NFL. And our best soccer players are on the USMNT.

i agree, first touch is what seperates guys like altidore who was struggling with division 2 and drougba a first class striker.
i will never consider guys like xavi and iniesta physical specimens, but their vision and ball skills makes them one of the best in the world.

epicSocialism4tw
07-29-2010, 10:59 AM
there was alot of questions regarding Messi and how effective he would be without his teamates from barcelona. at this point, i think the best player in the world is Xavi. he is the reason spain won and he is the reason why barcelona is so good. his vision and leadership rivals that of the great zidane.

I agree on Xavi. His intelligence makes him great.

Xavi is maybe the best player in the most populous, most popular sport at the hightest level of competition on the planet.

In many eyes that makes him a better athlete than LeBarn James could ever think to be.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-29-2010, 11:47 AM
I agree on Xavi. His intelligence makes him great.

Xavi is maybe the best player in the most populous, most popular sport at the hightest level of competition on the planet.

In many eyes that makes him a better athlete than LeBarn James could ever think to be.

I'm not sure how that makes him a better athlete than Lebron, but it sure makes him a better soccer player!

One thing thats interesting about soccer popularity is, of course its the most popular sport in the world, but populationwise, there are tons of people who dont care for it. Its not popular in India, China, Russia, Canada, and it takes a distant back seat in the US. Combine their populations and you get about 3 billion people in a world with 6+ billion. I'm not sure my point, its just interesting to think about. (and im saying this as a fan of soccer, im not hating on it by any means).

epicSocialism4tw
07-29-2010, 12:09 PM
I'm not sure how that makes him a better athlete than Lebron, but it sure makes him a better soccer player!

One thing thats interesting about soccer popularity is, of course its the most popular sport in the world, but populationwise, there are tons of people who dont care for it. Its not popular in India, China, Russia, Canada, and it takes a distant back seat in the US. Combine their populations and you get about 3 billion people in a world with 6+ billion. I'm not sure my point, its just interesting to think about. (and im saying this as a fan of soccer, im not hating on it by any means).

The same people who would assume that LeBarn James is a better athlete than Wayne Rooney would be the type that would assume that Xavi is a better athlete than LeBarn James.

SleepingTiger
07-29-2010, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure how that makes him a better athlete than Lebron, but it sure makes him a better soccer player!

One thing thats interesting about soccer popularity is, of course its the most popular sport in the world, but populationwise, there are tons of people who dont care for it. Its not popular in India, China, Russia, Canada, and it takes a distant back seat in the US. Combine their populations and you get about 3 billion people in a world with 6+ billion. I'm not sure my point, its just interesting to think about. (and im saying this as a fan of soccer, im not hating on it by any means).

c'mon, like india has any sport, they are still trying to send more than 1 athlete to the olympics. now if engineeringis a sport, they would dominate. what sport in china do they concentrate on? if you take the worlds population, soccer is the most popular sport. a distant second would be basketball.

epicSocialism4tw
07-29-2010, 12:17 PM
c'mon, like india has any sport, they are still trying to send more than 1 athlete to the olympics. now if engineeringis a sport, they would dominate. what sport in china do they concentrate on? if you take the worlds population, soccer is the most popular sport. a distant second would be basketball.

Some would say that a distant second would be Cricket.

Jens1893
07-29-2010, 12:23 PM
c'mon, like india has any sport, they are still trying to send more than 1 athlete to the olympics. now if engineeringis a sport, they would dominate. what sport in china do they concentrate on? if you take the worlds population, soccer is the most popular sport. a distant second would be basketball.

India has cricket and they used to be really good at field hockey. Football is, I think, fairly popular in Russia and as for China, I think due to the set up of the whole sports system there where people are more or less told what sport to pursue by the regime, they focus on individual sports more than team sports as you can far more easily and way quicker get results in individual sports. It pretty much was the same in the old East Germany, football was popular with the people, but the regime rather focused on individual Olympic sports because it was easier to win at those. Sports there was a politicial instrument, like in China today.

atomicbloke
07-29-2010, 12:59 PM
About India, they may suck at soccer, with their national team ranked #130 or something, but the sport is hugely popular.

I spent an year in India during college and frequently traveled their on business and during their monsoon season, when it isn't popular to play cricket, you find their teeming masses of people playing soccer on cricket grounds.

And as a spectator sport, there is an almost fanatical following for soccer. During the World Cup, in any Indian city, all offices and every square inch of the city is draped in Argentina flags. Travel away from the city in to the countryside and everyone is a Brazil fan. You'll find numerous newspaper reports of violent clashes between Argentina and Brazil fans in India! I read somewhere that India has more Argentina fans than Argentina due to their population! And in club soccer, the loyalties are divided, but I have mostly seen folks there rooting for Man U, Barcelona , Arsenal and Real Madrid. The EPL and Li Liga are always shown on TV and bars and restaurants are packed for those. The poor and homeless watch them from the streets on TVs in display windows of electronics stores.

People assume soccer isn't popular in places like India, Bangladesh, Thailand, etc because they are not good at it. But that is not true. Even a short visit to these countries or even browsing any soccer fansite will reveal the fanatical following for the sport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZhbFSASM-g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-24R6TpJcI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nkSKkG4V5M


And the East Bengal - Mogan Bagan derby in Kolkata always sells out its 120 K stadium.

When Maradona visited Kolkata in 2008, around half a million followed him everywhere he went, and he said on TV that he was amazed that a country half a world away could adore him so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fix7xqFeSyA&feature=related

SonOfLe-loLang
07-29-2010, 01:23 PM
Some would say that a distant second would be Cricket.

I'd assume basketball is far more popular than cricket. Basketball is really now played everywhere, and popular everywhere, save for africa. Not on the level of soccer obviously, but still its certainly growing

And basketball seems to be the sport of choice in china, to whoever was discussing whats popular there.

epicSocialism4tw
07-29-2010, 01:30 PM
I'd assume basketball is far more popular than cricket. Basketball is really now played everywhere, and popular everywhere, save for africa. Not on the level of soccer obviously, but still its certainly growing

And basketball seems to be the sport of choice in china, to whoever was discussing whats popular there.

Yao Ming is a sport of choice in some of China.

The money and infrastructure in Cricket would blow your mind.

Basketball is growing, but the major western nations could generally care less.

epicSocialism4tw
07-29-2010, 01:32 PM
About India, they may suck at soccer, with their national team ranked #130 or something, but the sport is hugely popular.

I spent an year in India during college and frequently traveled their on business and during their monsoon season, when it isn't popular to play cricket, you find their teeming masses of people playing soccer on cricket grounds.

And as a spectator sport, there is an almost fanatical following for soccer. During the World Cup, in any Indian city, all offices and every square inch of the city is draped in Argentina flags. Travel away from the city in to the countryside and everyone is a Brazil fan. You'll find numerous newspaper reports of violent clashes between Argentina and Brazil fans in India! I read somewhere that India has more Argentina fans than Argentina due to their population! And in club soccer, the loyalties are divided, but I have mostly seen folks there rooting for Man U, Barcelona , Arsenal and Real Madrid. The EPL and Li Liga are always shown on TV and bars and restaurants are packed for those. The poor and homeless watch them from the streets on TVs in display windows of electronics stores.

People assume soccer isn't popular in places like India, Bangladesh, Thailand, etc because they are not good at it. But that is not true. Even a short visit to these countries or even browsing any soccer fansite will reveal the fanatical following for the sport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZhbFSASM-g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-24R6TpJcI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nkSKkG4V5M


And the East Bengal - Mogan Bagan derby in Kolkata always sells out its 120 K stadium.

When Maradona visited Kolkata in 2008, around half a million followed him everywhere he went, and he said on TV that he was amazed that a country half a world away could adore him so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fix7xqFeSyA&feature=related

Yup. I went to college with tons of Bengali and Indian folks, and soccer is the sport of conversation.

atomicbloke
07-29-2010, 01:37 PM
Yup. I went to college with tons of Bengali and Indian folks, and soccer is the sport of conversation.

I dated a Bengali woman once and they are the best :sunshine: in very unusual ways ;)

atomicbloke
07-29-2010, 01:41 PM
And regarding which is the best sport, it is really a silly and pointless argument to have. Everyone will have their own favorites and you'll get a different opinion depending on whom you ask.

If you asked me, even though soccer and football are my favorites, I feel Test Cricket is the greatest sport on earth. It is that code of cricket where a single game takes 5 days! They play 8 hours a day, for 5 days..... Its the only sport that comes close to being like a war.... with the very fact that geography and weather play such an integral role in game play and the captain on the field has to be familiar with local conditions and also be a weather man to make the right tactical decisions!

epicSocialism4tw
07-29-2010, 01:49 PM
And regarding which is the best sport, it is really a silly and pointless argument to have. Everyone will have their own favorites and you'll get a different opinion depending on whom you ask.

If you asked me, even though soccer and football are my favorites, I feel Test Cricket is the greatest sport on earth. It is that code of cricket where a single game takes 5 days! They play 8 hours a day, for 5 days..... Its the only sport that comes close to being like a war.... with the very fact that geography and weather play such an integral role in game play and the captain on the field has to be familiar with local conditions and also be a weather man to make the right tactical decisions!

I would argue that pasuckuakohowog is much cooler.

-the game: basically super-physical soccer
-the pitch: you play on a massive beach 1/2 mile wide by a mile long
-the teams: 1,000 people wearing disguises
-duration: days-long ending with a massive feast

atomicbloke
07-29-2010, 02:01 PM
I would argue that pasuckuakohowog is much cooler.

-the game: basically super-physical soccer
-the pitch: you play on a massive beach 1/2 mile wide by a mile long
-the teams: 1,000 people wearing disguises
-duration: days-long ending with a massive feast

Lol.... you are talking to a Native American mate...

but I meant professional sports and not recreational sports....

Jens1893
07-29-2010, 02:28 PM
And regarding which is the best sport, it is really a silly and pointless argument to have. Everyone will have their own favorites and you'll get a different opinion depending on whom you ask.

Aye, especially as Iīve found myself on both sides of the fence. When I am talking to my football buddies here they usually say "aw, American football is such a stupid sport!" and when I talk to Americans itīs usually "aw, "soccer" is such a stupid sport!".

I love both.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-29-2010, 02:57 PM
I dont know that any of us were arguing what the best sport is. All sports are great, all are different. Football is my personal favorite, but all are more than valid.

atomicbloke
07-29-2010, 03:32 PM
Aye, especially as Iīve found myself on both sides of the fence. When I am talking to my football buddies here they usually say "aw, American football is such a stupid sport!" and when I talk to Americans itīs usually "aw, "soccer" is such a stupid sport!".



That's because Europeans think football is just rugby with pads. Sure, both sports use an egg-shaped ball and are played by bigger players, but that's where the similarity ends. Rugby is closer to soccer than football in terms of overall game strategy.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-29-2010, 03:36 PM
That's because Europeans think football is just rugby with pads. Sure, both sports use an egg-shaped ball and are played by bigger players, but that's where the similarity ends. Rugby is closer to soccer than football in terms of overall game strategy.

I'm so glad you said this, ive been trying to explain that to people for years

Jens1893
07-29-2010, 03:47 PM
That's because Europeans think football is just rugby with pads. Sure, both sports use an egg-shaped ball and are played by bigger players, but that's where the similarity ends. Rugby is closer to soccer than football in terms of overall game strategy.

People Iīve had that argument with here donīt know anything about either rugby or football, but thatīs probably because rugby is completely unimportant here, unlike in Italy, the UK or especially France. For this country, Iīd say thereīs football, then thereīs a sizeable gap and then thereīs either basketball (partly due to Dirk) or team handball with hockey coming after that. The rest barely registers.

gyldenlove
07-29-2010, 03:50 PM
Yao Ming is a sport of choice in some of China.

The money and infrastructure in Cricket would blow your mind.

Basketball is growing, but the major western nations could generally care less.

In Europe and Africa basketball takes a backseat to several sports, I believe the same is the case for much of Asia and South America as well.

Track and field is very big in Africa, probably second to soccer in most countries. In Europe Handball is the 2nd biggest (also in a few Asian and African countries). Gymnastics and tabletennis are both huge because so many Asians play. Cricket is big financially, but not much when it comes to number of players, in that regard rugby is bigger.

epicSocialism4tw
07-29-2010, 03:59 PM
Golf.

The biggest sport next to soccer. However, whether or not it is a sport is up to debate.

I win. ;D

epicSocialism4tw
07-29-2010, 04:01 PM
Lol.... you are talking to a Native American mate...

but I meant professional sports and not recreational sports....

:thumbs:

atomicbloke
07-29-2010, 04:09 PM
In Europe and Africa basketball takes a backseat to several sports, I believe the same is the case for much of Asia and South America as well.

Track and field is very big in Africa, probably second to soccer in most countries. In Europe Handball is the 2nd biggest (also in a few Asian and African countries). Gymnastics and tabletennis are both huge because so many Asians play. Cricket is big financially, but not much when it comes to number of players, in that regard rugby is bigger.

World wide Rugby is the second biggest sport. It is ahead of cricket and basketball ball by a mile.

WABronco
07-29-2010, 04:17 PM
Anyone else catch that Iranian evil-doer Ahmadinejad calling Paul the Octopus a decadent symbol of the Western world? What a loon. Launch the cruise missiles now, please.

atomicbloke
07-29-2010, 04:23 PM
Anyone else catch that Iranian evil-doer Ahmadinejad calling Paul the Octopus a decadent symbol of the Western world? What a loon. Launch the cruise missiles now, please.


I agree with him. Only stupid people could think that an octopus can have psychic powers.

Intelligent people think public display of boobs cause earthquakes.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-29-2010, 04:34 PM
Yao Ming is a sport of choice in some of China.

The money and infrastructure in Cricket would blow your mind.

Basketball is growing, but the major western nations could generally care less.

Kobe was the highest selling jersey in china for a while, if not still...so its more than just Yao

epicSocialism4tw
07-29-2010, 07:46 PM
Anyone else catch that Iranian evil-doer Ahmadinejad calling Paul the Octopus a decadent symbol of the Western world? What a loon. Launch the cruise missiles now, please.


Yeah...biologists having a little fun with their creatures of study is nothing but pure evil.

Paul is clearly a psychic though, so I'm sure that he already knew what Iran's little dictator had to say.

gtown
07-30-2010, 07:41 PM
The North Korean WC Team was supposedly shamed in public right after the tournament exit. Pretty sad that these idiots are allowed to do this ****.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5424626/nkorea-wcup-team-shamed-public

eddie mac
07-31-2010, 03:56 AM
Not World Cup related really but USA Under 19's just won the Northern Ireland Milk Cup for 2010.

It's a yearly youth tournament that hosts 54 teams from around the world at 3 levels.

Under 15
Under 17
Under 19

USA beat the hosts Northern Ireland in the Under 19 final 3-0 and this is the 2nd time they've won the competition now, some exciting young prospects in the team.

Some video links here for anyone interested. Unfortunately the final videos aren't up yet but may be later today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/milkcup/

epicSocialism4tw
07-31-2010, 09:34 AM
Not World Cup related really but USA Under 19's just won the Northern Ireland Milk Cup for 2010.

It's a yearly youth tournament that hosts 54 teams from around the world at 3 levels.

Under 15
Under 17
Under 19

USA beat the hosts Northern Ireland in the Under 19 final 3-0 and this is the 2nd time they've won the competition now, some exciting young prospects in the team.

Some video links here for anyone interested. Unfortunately the final videos aren't up yet but may be later today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/milkcup/

This team was drawn from the 400 player pool I referred to earlier in the thread.

There are some really interesting players there. Agbossumonde is a player that the big clubs will have interest in. Zarek Valentin has been good in every game I have seen him play. Juan Agudelo has alot of potential as a goal scorer, and he's only 17. Ruelas is good. Omar Salgado is a 6'3" 16-year old who plays like a south american striker.

The best U-20's arent really with the team.

I heard one of the Northern Ireland announcers say that some think that the US will win a world cup in the next 10 years.

Jens1893
07-31-2010, 10:28 AM
At the youth level itīs all about player development and not winning.

epicSocialism4tw
07-31-2010, 10:33 AM
At the youth level itīs all about player development and not winning.

In the US, the winning mentality is part of player development. Its the mentality that defined the way the team played at this last world cup, and I hope its the mentality that remains in tact as this new breed of top-quality US young players grow into professionals.

atomicbloke
08-01-2010, 11:59 PM
In the US, the winning mentality is part of player development. Its the mentality that defined the way the team played at this last world cup, and I hope its the mentality that remains in tact as this new breed of top-quality US young players grow into professionals.

That's why we needed a once-in-50-years kind of mistake to steal a point off a team historically known for choking, struggled to split points with a nation of 2-million people, and needed a desperate injury-time goal to subdue that powerhouse known as Algeria. And after all that, we proved that we didn't belong on the same field with the 23rd ranked nation.

Winning mentality indeed,

Being behind your country's team is one thing, being completely delusional is unhealthy. World Cup winners in 10 years? Are you insane?

When was the last time a country won a World Cup with its top domestic league ranked 49th in the world?

What's needed is baby steps. The MLS has to become a serious league. Maybe move to an Apertura and Clausara format. Bring in promotion and relegation. Move to a single table. Get rid of conferences, playoffs and the draft. Bring in a high-profile domestic cup competition. Actually make an impact in the CONCACAF Champions League. Stop being a retirement league for has been stars and invest in homegrown players,

Then maybe in 30 years, we can dream of a serious World Cup run.

epicSocialism4tw
08-02-2010, 02:24 PM
That's why we needed a once-in-50-years kind of mistake to steal a point off a team historically known for choking, struggled to split points with a nation of 2-million people, and needed a desperate injury-time goal to subdue that powerhouse known as Algeria. And after all that, we proved that we didn't belong on the same field with the 23rd ranked nation.

Winning mentality indeed,

Being behind your country's team is one thing, being completely delusional is unhealthy. World Cup winners in 10 years? Are you insane?

When was the last time a country won a World Cup with its top domestic league ranked 49th in the world?

What's needed is baby steps. The MLS has to become a serious league. Maybe move to an Apertura and Clausara format. Bring in promotion and relegation. Move to a single table. Get rid of conferences, playoffs and the draft. Bring in a high-profile domestic cup competition. Actually make an impact in the CONCACAF Champions League. Stop being a retirement league for has been stars and invest in homegrown players,

Then maybe in 30 years, we can dream of a serious World Cup run.

We'll see, wont we?

The US will play in a semifinal within the next three cycles.

eddie mac
08-02-2010, 03:31 PM
At the youth level itīs all about player development and not winning.

Is it Jens my friend???

Chelsea played 5, won 5, scored 18 conceded 0. BTW they nicked a kid from Germany when he was 12 years old by giving his family Ģ50k and a house in England.

Jens1893
08-03-2010, 07:06 AM
Is it Jens my friend???

Chelsea played 5, won 5, scored 18 conceded 0. BTW they nicked a kid from Germany when he was 12 years old by giving his family Ģ50k and a house in England.

Several English clubs have nicked German youngsters in the past 10 years, but only Hitzlsperger, Huuuuuth and to a lesser extent Volz ever quite made it to the pro level. Several others flamed out along the way and are now playing in the lower divisions here.

And, yes, the youth level is all about player development and turning them into professionals. Whatīs the point in winning youth tournaments left, right and center just because your players are more developed athletically if none of them make it at the top level? Why do clubs spend millions every year on the the youth systems and acadamies? To boost their ego so they can show their trophy cabinet full of trophies won by their U XX teams or so they can inexpensively get new players for their first team, wo they might sell on for a hefty profit later?

Our U19 were the best in the country for much of the season, but during the second half of the year several were promoted to the reserves (or U23s) early and others were sent on holiday during the season so they could be ready for pre-season training of the reserves. Itīs all about putting players through.

This is a fairly lengthy, but interesting read on Ajaxīs academy from the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1

epicSocialism4tw
08-04-2010, 03:20 PM
Jermaine Jones gets his first US call-up:

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5437695/jones-lone-newcomer-us-roster-brazil

He scored a "hand of clod" kind of goal with Schalke the other day, but this dude isnt a goal scorer...he's a brute force. Excellent player and (when healthy) is one of the top few destroyers in the Bundesliga. I cant wait to see him in action with the Yanks.

Jens1893
08-04-2010, 03:53 PM
Ainīt a smart move from Bradley to call him up now for a meaningless friendly before the domestic season starts for most European based players. Heīs been out for a year, has just gotten back and is settling back in again with the squad and the for him new manager. Magath wonīt be pleased and it wouldnīt be smart on Jonesī part to go to New York and make his comeback for a national team after a year out of action in the middle of pre-season training. Bradley doesnīt want to **** with Magath and neither does Jones.

eddie mac
08-04-2010, 04:56 PM
Ainīt a smart move from Bradley to call him up now for a meaningless friendly before the domestic season starts for most European based players. Heīs been out for a year, has just gotten back and is settling back in again with the squad and the for him new manager. Magath wonīt be pleased and it wouldnīt be smart on Jonesī part to go to New York and make his comeback for a national team after a year out of action in the middle of pre-season training. Bradley doesnīt want to **** with Magath and neither does Jones.

BTW mate, I'm sooooo happy we signed Der Hammer this Summer. How appropriate that Hitz will be wearing the claret and blue again and his nickname couldn't fit any other club better. Well chuffed we landed him for nothing and he's been superb in pre-season.

Plus we're about to sign that young New Zealand star from the WC, Winston Reid from FC Midtjylland and we can finally get rid of Spector.!Booya!

epicSocialism4tw
08-04-2010, 06:15 PM
Ainīt a smart move from Bradley to call him up now for a meaningless friendly before the domestic season starts for most European based players. Heīs been out for a year, has just gotten back and is settling back in again with the squad and the for him new manager. Magath wonīt be pleased and it wouldnīt be smart on Jonesī part to go to New York and make his comeback for a national team after a year out of action in the middle of pre-season training. Bradley doesnīt want to **** with Magath and neither does Jones.

Jones has been itching to get in with the squad. He attended pre-World Cup camps and has been hovering around the team for awhile. I would imagine that this is to get Jones familiar with the team and the system.

Bradley hasnt had any problems with German-based players before and I doubt it will start here. Bradley is well known as a coaches coach who works well with clubs.

It was US national team doctors who finally resolved Jones' shin issues when the Shalke folks were sending him to the equivalent of snake doctors. Magath should bend over and kiss Bradley's shoes.

Jens1893
08-05-2010, 03:30 AM
BTW mate, I'm sooooo happy we signed Der Hammer this Summer. How appropriate that Hitz will be wearing the claret and blue again and his nickname couldn't fit any other club better. Well chuffed we landed him for nothing and he's been superb in pre-season.

Plus we're about to sign that young New Zealand star from the WC, Winston Reid from FC Midtjylland and we can finally get rid of Spector.!Booya!

Donīt forget the signing-on-fee ... you donīt get footballers for nothing. :)

Have a bit of a split opinion of him. He just always goes with the flow, on the pitch and off. On the pitch he always did well when those around him did well and the team was in good form, but, despite being captain for 1.5 years, rarely was the guy who stood out when things werenīt. He always seems to choose the way of the least resistance and I also quite often had the impression the national team was far more important to him than it should be. Heīs a likeable guy, but something always seemed missing with him.

atomicbloke
08-05-2010, 04:40 AM
What club does everyone here root for?

I religiously follow Boca Juniors and Ajax Amsterdam.

Still trying to pick an MLS team. None of them seem to play the possession style tiki taka soccer I prefer.

DHallblows
08-05-2010, 07:09 AM
What club does everyone here root for?

I religiously follow Boca Juniors and Ajax Amsterdam.

Still trying to pick an MLS team. None of them seem to play the possession style tiki taka soccer I prefer.

Fulham, Colorado Rapids and Rangers

epicSocialism4tw
08-05-2010, 12:38 PM
What club does everyone here root for?

I religiously follow Boca Juniors and Ajax Amsterdam.

Still trying to pick an MLS team. None of them seem to play the possession style tiki taka soccer I prefer.

I follow Yanks abroad and domestic. I will watch any good footie, especially featuring brilliant (intelligent) players. I loved Zidane, and have really enjoyed Pavel Medved, Pirlo, Xavi, Forlan in this last WC, etc. Give me a brilliant #10. Doesnt have to be a pure goal scorer.

I pull for FC Dallas and Pachuca. Everyone else I watch for the players.

As far as MLS, FC Dallas is the closest thing you'll find to S. American football right now, and theyre on quite a run. Columbian David Fereirra is their engine and they feature young US National Team players Brek Shea and Heath Pearce as well. They have a large Columbian contingent featuring Fereirra, Milton Rodriguez, and Javier Benitez.

Jens1893
08-05-2010, 04:46 PM
Looks like bold Jermaine followed my advice. Or bold Felix in no uncertain terms told him what to do.

ZachKC
08-05-2010, 04:52 PM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/images/2008/04/04/kansas_city_logo.jpg

http://files.dailycontributor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/aston-villa-vs-everton-livestream.jpg

dumpy
08-05-2010, 09:03 PM
Fulham, Colorado Rapids and Rangers

Rangers? Yuck!!! I was at Ibrox last October when they played Sevilla FC in the Champions league. The whole place smelled like rotten miller lite! Thank God I'm a Celtic fan!!!

DHallblows
08-05-2010, 09:21 PM
Rangers? Yuck!!! I was at Ibrox last October when they played Sevilla FC in the Champions league. The whole place smelled like rotten miller lite! Thank God I'm a Celtic fan!!!

Hahaha Rangers is a significantly less intense following for me. There's just so much hype for that overrated league that I felt obligated to pick a side.

epicSocialism4tw
08-05-2010, 10:15 PM
FC Dallas tied Inter Milan 2-2.

Toros!

TonyR
08-10-2010, 12:33 PM
I can't start a thread so I'll ask here...

Anyone going to the U.S./Brazil exhibition at the Meadowlands tonight?

DHallblows
08-10-2010, 04:47 PM
I can't start a thread so I'll ask here...

Anyone going to the U.S./Brazil exhibition at the Meadowlands tonight?

I'm DVRing it if that counts :~ohyah!:

TonyR
08-11-2010, 05:59 AM
I'm DVRing it if that counts

I was there. Packed house but probably about 40-50% rooting for Brazil. Brazil toyed with us.

The New Meadowlands Stadium (where the Giants and Jets will play) is rather bland. Doesn't have much charm or character like many of the new stadiums do. Rather disappointing, and surprising considering the market.

DHallblows
08-11-2010, 09:20 AM
I was there. Packed house but probably about 40-50% rooting for Brazil. Brazil toyed with us.

The New Meadowlands Stadium (where the Giants and Jets will play) is rather bland. Doesn't have much charm or character like many of the new stadiums do. Rather disappointing, and surprising considering the market.

Brazil is an easy team to Bandwagon. Anybody that knows how to pronounce "soccer" knows Brazil is good at it. Admittedly, they're my one bandwagon team that I follow. So I'm not too shocked by the even turnout.
Pretty cool you got to see the stadium early even if it's boring.

epicSocialism4tw
08-11-2010, 01:24 PM
The US team looked flat. That game looked little more than a victory lap of sorts for the Yanks.

Brazil tried to make a statement with their youth movement and did.

Jens1893
08-12-2010, 02:49 AM
Donīt forget the signing-on-fee ... you donīt get footballers for nothing. :)

Have a bit of a split opinion of him. He just always goes with the flow, on the pitch and off. On the pitch he always did well when those around him did well and the team was in good form, but, despite being captain for 1.5 years, rarely was the guy who stood out when things werenīt. He always seems to choose the way of the least resistance and I also quite often had the impression the national team was far more important to him than it should be. Heīs a likeable guy, but something always seemed missing with him.

Aaaaaaaand he picked up a muscle injury in the completely useless friendly against Denmark and is out for 2-3 weeks.

DBruleU
08-14-2010, 06:35 PM
Found this pretty interesting.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5463515/fifa-considers-doing-away-draws-world-cup

FIFA considers World Cup changes

BERLIN -- FIFA president Sepp Blatter says soccer's governing body will consider eliminating ties in all World Cup games.

Blatter said Saturday on Germany's Focus weekly that the dramatic change would make the tournament more interesting. He says the change could involve going to a shootout after 90 minutes of regulation or adding sudden-death overtime.

Sudden-death overtime was used in the knockout rounds of the 1998 and 2002 World Cups. FIFA then reverted to its previous rule of having teams play a full 30 minutes of overtime if tied at the end of regulation in the knockout rounds.

First-round games always have ended in draws if tied at the end of regulation.

ZachKC
08-16-2010, 10:08 PM
Was messing around in the studio tonight and made this. Thought some of you guys might enjoy it.

<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VVV5JccA3sA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VVV5JccA3sA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>

DHallblows
08-16-2010, 10:35 PM
Nice Zach

s0phr0syne
06-19-2011, 02:14 PM
BUMP

for the victory over Jamaica!!


USA USA USA

Beantown Bronco
06-19-2011, 07:11 PM
I'll go a step further. The US could make the finals and it really won't matter much in terms of ratings in between World Cups. Few if any who didn't watch MLS before the World Cup are now all of a sudden going to watch it because the US team did well in the World Cup. And it's not like they're now all of a sudden going to watch more international games. People that were truly interested in the sport will keep doing what they were doing before. And people that are "World Cup bandwagoners" will go back to their life without soccer, as usual, until the next World Cup comes around.

This current run won't change anyone's lives significantly IMO.


*cough*

That One Guy
06-19-2011, 07:15 PM
*cough*

I'll have you know, I watched the World Cup religiously.

And... well.. OK, I haven't watched (nor cared about) soccer since, I admit it...

brncs_fan
06-19-2011, 07:27 PM
We need to get a new thread going for the Women's World Cup. The USA is on the pitch in 9 days!!!!!!!!!!!

Kid A
06-22-2011, 06:14 PM
So...uh...Freddy Adu?! Resurrecting the US offense just in time to avoid OT. Good second pass by Donovan and finish by Dempsey, but that first pass by Adu was the difference maker.

DBruleU
06-22-2011, 06:15 PM
So...uh...Freddy Adu?! Resurrecting the US offense just in time to avoid OT. Good second pass by Donovan and finish by Dempsey, but that first pass by Adu was the difference maker.

That was a fantastic ball by Adu. But Donovans was the hard one. Great counter to a goal. Bring on the Mexicans.

McDman
06-22-2011, 07:00 PM
That was a fantastic ball by Adu. But Donovans was the hard one. Great counter to a goal. Bring on the Mexicans.

If we don't have a drastic turn around they're going to smoke us.

That One Guy
06-22-2011, 08:44 PM
If we don't have a drastic turn around they're going to smoke us.

Just hold the match in Alabama and they'll either forfeit or get detained.

No idea what we're talking about, someone got highlights?

Dagmar
06-22-2011, 09:18 PM
US vs Mexico, Saturday night, Mexico looked very pacey but had real trouble finishing, 2 set piece goals in extra time ()still in 1st half of extra time, Honduras have never looked like scoring)

epicSocialism4tw
06-22-2011, 11:32 PM
That was a fantastic ball by Adu. But Donovans was the hard one. Great counter to a goal. Bring on the Mexicans.

Pin-point delivery by GanaGol Donovan.

Atwater His Ass
06-23-2011, 12:32 AM
Freddy Adu is the only true playmaker the US has, as well as our most technically gifted player.

He's the kind of player that can set up guys like Dempsey, Donovan, Altidore and make them shine.

It's a disgrace that a guy like Klejstan is starting ahead of him.

epicSocialism4tw
06-23-2011, 01:11 AM
Freddy Adu is the only true playmaker the US has, as well as our most technically gifted player.

He's the kind of player that can set up guys like Dempsey, Donovan, Altidore and make them shine.

It's a disgrace that a guy like Klejstan is starting ahead of him.

To Kljestan's credit, he has been starting at Anderlecht. He has earned a chance.

Adu is just beginning to get regular burn on a second-division Turkish team. By all accounts, Adu wouldn't sniff the pitch at Anderlecht.

McDman
06-23-2011, 03:37 AM
Like the announcer said, Adu is extremely gifted and naturally talented it's the mental aspect of the game that will hold him back. He looked fantastic tonight but he still and some mental errors trying to take on midfielders 1v3.

We can't judge him until we see him more and in a full 90 minute game. Maybe he does best as a sub.

Atwater His Ass
06-23-2011, 03:55 AM
Adu has proved himself time and again with the national team and has taken great strides to address his club game. Perhaps you've missed his contributions on the international stage before being banished to the darklands by Bradley, who by far plays his favorites regardless of their club or form.

He didn't get too aggresive showing his skill tonight in "1v3" situations. In fact, he's one of the very few players the US has that has the capability to actually take defenders on and make a play. Unless of course you prefer playing 2 DMC's and watching the team back pass to the them and CB's all day while unable to break down minnow teams like Jamacia and Panama. It's emabarassing at times the lack of technical skill and very slow play the US team employs. We are almost completely unable to break teams down with possession and rely almost soley on counter attacking opportunities, while limiting other teams by passing the ball around in our back 1/3 or sometimes the middle 1/3. This is why the US cannot compete against top level international teams.

He deserves more playing time than the likes of Kljestan and Bedoya and Agudelo (whom I happen to like btw).

Adu brings an aspect to the US team that no one else can. That in itself is worth exploring.

I mean the fact that Bradley isolates a player like Agudelo up top is embarrasing. He's not a target man like Altidore. He's a poacher type player that needs support and the freedom to move. But the striker / forward position is by far the weakest for the US team. The midfield, espcially with a healthy Holden is very strong. The back four FINALLY playing Lichaj instead of the horrid Bornstein is not so much a weakness anymore. Espcially if gooch can come back strong. I'd much rather see a pairing of Dempsey with Agudelo, with Adu playmaking in the middle, w/ Donovan on the left wing. Ideally Holden plays the right wing, but for now, we're stuck with a sub par Bedoya.

DHallblows
06-23-2011, 09:21 AM
Adu has proved himself time and again with the national team and has taken great strides to address his club game. Perhaps you've missed his contributions on the international stage before being banished to the darklands by Bradley, who by far plays his favorites regardless of their club or form.
And yet you're complaining that Adu, who plays in a league with half the talent of MLS, isn't starting. ???

He didn't get too aggresive showing his skill tonight in "1v3" situations. In fact, he's one of the very few players the US has that has the capability to actually take defenders on and make a play. Unless of course you prefer playing 2 DMC's and watching the team back pass to the them and CB's all day while unable to break down minnow teams like Jamacia and Panama. It's emabarassing at times the lack of technical skill and very slow play the US team employs. We are almost completely unable to break teams down with possession and rely almost soley on counter attacking opportunities, while limiting other teams by passing the ball around in our back 1/3 or sometimes the middle 1/3. This is why the US cannot compete against top level international teams.

I completely agree. Bradley and Jones (specifically Bradley) are the most stifling aspect of our team. There are times (when we're in the upper 1/3) that it'd be more advantageous for our offense if we played a man down rather than having Bradley exist and ruin our offense with back passes due to his lack of creativity in passing.

He deserves more playing time than the likes of Kljestan and Bedoya and Agudelo (whom I happen to like btw).

Sacha has done surprisingly well this tournament, you seem a little hung up on him. Adu is still better, but there's at least 2 other midfielders I'd rather start him over than Kljestan.

Adu brings an aspect to the US team that no one else can. That in itself is worth exploring.

I mean the fact that Bradley isolates a player like Agudelo up top is embarrasing. He's not a target man like Altidore. He's a poacher type player that needs support and the freedom to move. But the striker / forward position is by far the weakest for the US team. The midfield, espcially with a healthy Holden is very strong. The back four FINALLY playing Lichaj instead of the horrid Bornstein is not so much a weakness anymore. Espcially if gooch can come back strong. I'd much rather see a pairing of Dempsey with Agudelo, with Adu playmaking in the middle, w/ Donovan on the left wing. Ideally Holden plays the right wing, but for now, we're stuck with a sub par Bedoya.

I really really REALLY wish we had a striker of any high quality. I'll be blunt: Jozy isn't a huge loss. I can think of 5 other starters I'd be more worried about losing than him. This team has absolutely no great strikers and haven't since McBride. And with the unimaginative play of our CMF, we're going to continue to struggle getting goals that aren't from counterattacks, wonder strikes from Dempsey, PKs from Donovan, or flukes from everyone else.

I'm so excited that our back 4 is starting to look solid (as soon as Goodson is replaced with Gooch). It was shocking that Bradley actually made a good move and removed the cancer that was Ream.

Let's set this straight, I basically agree with everything you're saying. You come across as a little overzealous on Adu, but i can appreciate that as I can be the same way with Clint. Freddy had a good showing yesterday and I'm looking forward to seeing more of him in the future :thumbs: (if Bob lets him that is...)

s0phr0syne
06-23-2011, 11:44 AM
I completely agree. Bradley and Jones (specifically Bradley) are the most stifling aspect of our team. There are times (when we're in the upper 1/3) that it'd be more advantageous for our offense if we played a man down rather than having Bradley exist and ruin our offense with back passes due to his lack of creativity in passing.


Sacha has done surprisingly well this tournament, you seem a little hung up on him. Adu is still better, but there's at least 2 other midfielders I'd rather start him over than Kljestan.



Enjoyed reading both of y'alls' posts, but I disagree.

Bradley and Jones have both been very solid in the roles they're playing as defensive midfielders. I don't understand the disdain for Bradley--yes, he's the coach's son but the way the midfield looks without him is grotesque. That was most evident in the Spain friendly, where the Edu and Jones combo looked hapless until Bradley came in. While last night I thought he had a horrible game (some really retarded fouls in the mold of his pre-2009 play, and a completely blown opportunity to strike in the box), Bradley in general has brought a good tenacity and even some offensive counter pace to the midfield.

To me, the biggest weakness has been Kljestan on offense. He seems serviceable as a possession midfielder, but he has been the greatest contributor to breaking down our offensive pace (with the aforementioned backpasses). I've been confused why he's been getting so many minutes when it's obvious that our offensive possessions slow down EVERY time he gets the ball. He's been tentative to shoot and indecisive with passing near the 18.

Seems like operating out of the 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1 are the best options for the US with the lack of striking talent on the roster. I was perplexed that after the success of playing Dempsey in the trailing role against Jamaica (4-2-3-1?) that Bradley went back to what looked like a 4-4-1-1 yesterday, playing Dempsey in midfield. It seems clear to me that he needs to be playing further upfield when so few on our roster can shoot reliably.

I thought Bedoya has been good throughout the tournament, brings good energy. Obviously, Adu looked good last night, hope to see him some more. I've actually liked keeping Donovan as a sub, his energy has been great in the 2nd half.

epicSocialism4tw
06-23-2011, 01:10 PM
Enjoyed reading both of y'alls' posts, but I disagree.

Bradley and Jones have both been very solid in the roles they're playing as defensive midfielders. I don't understand the disdain for Bradley--yes, he's the coach's son but the way the midfield looks without him is grotesque. That was most evident in the Spain friendly, where the Edu and Jones combo looked hapless until Bradley came in. While last night I thought he had a horrible game (some really retarded fouls in the mold of his pre-2009 play, and a completely blown opportunity to strike in the box), Bradley in general has brought a good tenacity and even some offensive counter pace to the midfield.

To me, the biggest weakness has been Kljestan on offense. He seems serviceable as a possession midfielder, but he has been the greatest contributor to breaking down our offensive pace (with the aforementioned backpasses). I've been confused why he's been getting so many minutes when it's obvious that our offensive possessions slow down EVERY time he gets the ball. He's been tentative to shoot and indecisive with passing near the 18.

Seems like operating out of the 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1 are the best options for the US with the lack of striking talent on the roster. I was perplexed that after the success of playing Dempsey in the trailing role against Jamaica (4-2-3-1?) that Bradley went back to what looked like a 4-4-1-1 yesterday, playing Dempsey in midfield. It seems clear to me that he needs to be playing further upfield when so few on our roster can shoot reliably.

I thought Bedoya has been good throughout the tournament, brings good energy. Obviously, Adu looked good last night, hope to see him some more. I've actually liked keeping Donovan as a sub, his energy has been great in the 2nd half.

I like Bedoya too. He's a hungry player with alot to offer the team. He's versatile too. I don't know if you have seen him play at his club or not, but he has scored some fantastic goals. This is a player blazing a trail to 2014. He makes the most of his opportunities. Gotta love that.

Adu is extremely overhyped. He has, for some reason, a group of zealous fanboys that think way more of him than what he actually deserves. Its not Bradley's fault that Adu doesn't play. Coaches at DC United, Benfica, Monaco, Belenenses, Aris, and Rizespor have also chosen to bench Adu. I like the guy too, but he just has not earned his chance with the squad. He certainly doesn't deserve it more than Kljestan, who is a regular at Anderlecht...a legit big club in Europe. For what Adu could provide, there are better options. If Feilhaber wasn't hurt, he'd be getting that roster spot.

DHallblows
06-23-2011, 02:02 PM
Enjoyed reading both of y'alls' posts, but I disagree.

Bradley and Jones have both been very solid in the roles they're playing as defensive midfielders. I don't understand the disdain for Bradley--yes, he's the coach's son but the way the midfield looks without him is grotesque. That was most evident in the Spain friendly, where the Edu and Jones combo looked hapless until Bradley came in. While last night I thought he had a horrible game (some really retarded fouls in the mold of his pre-2009 play, and a completely blown opportunity to strike in the box), Bradley in general has brought a good tenacity and even some offensive counter pace to the midfield.

Well due to our lack of strikers, wouldn't you say we need an offensive center midfielder? Jones has been significantly more active in the box than Bradley has which gives me more hope in that area.
Bradley has been much better in the group stage than he has in the past, but his lack of an offensive mindset gets annoying to watch. Don't get me wrong Jones is a worse player (see: his attempt to half-volley that ball in the box last night where he instead managed to hit both of his feet somehow). I'd rather he be benched over Bradley.

To me, the biggest weakness has been Kljestan on offense. He seems serviceable as a possession midfielder, but he has been the greatest contributor to breaking down our offensive pace (with the aforementioned backpasses). I've been confused why he's been getting so many minutes when it's obvious that our offensive possessions slow down EVERY time he gets the ball. He's been tentative to shoot and indecisive with passing near the 18.

See I just can't agree with you here. Sacha had some good serviced balls into the middle and at least made opportunities for a goal. Even if they were just crosses. Bradley literally does nothing. I've noticed Bradley backpassing at least twice as much as the rest of the midfield combined. I'd even say (going off of the seat of my pants now) that if Kljestan is slowing the ball down or backpassing whenever he's getting the ball, it's probably because Bradley is giving him terrible passes into a triangle of defenders because he doesn't have the skill to chip a ball over to our good players.

Don't get me wrong, I've been hating on Kljestan for as long as I have been on Bradley, but I've liked him so far. I'd take him starting over Bedoya or Jones from what I've seen this tournament even if he's not technically a CMF. Just my opinion.

The important thing is that we can all agree that our strikers need more work than the center midfield currently...not that that's saying much for our midfield

Atwater His Ass
06-23-2011, 03:14 PM
And yet you're complaining that Adu, who plays in a league with half the talent of MLS, isn't starting. ???



Let's set this straight, I basically agree with everything you're saying. You come across as a little overzealous on Adu, but i can appreciate that as I can be the same way with Clint. Freddy had a good showing yesterday and I'm looking forward to seeing more of him in the future :thumbs: (if Bob lets him that is...)

Fair enough about Adu. I've just been a huge fan of him since his U-17 days and U-20 world cups. He's always produced for the national team, and I feel Bradley has been more than unfair is handling him, espeacially leaving him off the 2010 world cup roster.

To me Adu is a true playmaker. Donovan and Dempsey, while good players, just don't possess the ability or vision to reguarly play in their teammates, see the field, and take defenders on.

I was so dissapointed when they extended Bradley, while we had a real chance to land Klinsmann. Playing a bull**** defensive 4-2-3-1 against teams we should be dominating is just unaccetable to me. Against better teams, I can see using this tactic, but against CONCACAF opponents, we should be rolling them.

ZachKC
06-23-2011, 03:55 PM
So...uh...Freddy Adu?! Resurrecting the US offense just in time to avoid OT. Good second pass by Donovan and finish by Dempsey, but that first pass by Adu was the difference maker.

Absolutely. That was a nice ball. He also uses his body in interesting ways on the pitch.

McDman
06-23-2011, 03:55 PM
I can't see Adu playing the whole 90, I think keeping him as a sub is best for right now.

Sacha is serviceable but he's jbust not creative enough to make anything special happen.

ZachKC
06-23-2011, 03:59 PM
Thought you guys would get a kick out of this. This is from the US - Guadeloupe group stage game in Kansas City. The timing of my commentary makes it funny.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9P9LciE1MhA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

epicSocialism4tw
06-23-2011, 04:14 PM
Fair enough about Adu. I've just been a huge fan of him since his U-17 days and U-20 world cups. He's always produced for the national team, and I feel Bradley has been more than unfair is handling him, espeacially leaving him off the 2010 world cup roster.

To me Adu is a true playmaker. Donovan and Dempsey, while good players, just don't possess the ability or vision to reguarly play in their teammates, see the field, and take defenders on.

I was so dissapointed when they extended Bradley, while we had a real chance to land Klinsmann. Playing a bull**** defensive 4-2-3-1 against teams we should be dominating is just unaccetable to me. Against better teams, I can see using this tactic, but against CONCACAF opponents, we should be rolling them.

Bradley capped more players than any other coach before him. He gave more guys shots than anyone in US history. At the time of the World Cup, Adu hadn't come close to earning a shot with the team because he hadn't earned a spot on any club team.

Bradley finished second in a FIFA tourney (never done before him) and won a group at the 2010 World Cup (never done before him).

The Bradley hate is beyond ridiculous. Its a product of the internet and the mass amount of teenage butthurt over pet players like Adu (especially Adu) not earning a spot on the team.

brncs_fan
06-23-2011, 04:22 PM
Bradley capped more players than any other coach before him. He gave more guys shots than anyone in US history. At the time of the World Cup, Adu hadn't come close to earning a shot with the team because he hadn't earned a spot on any club team.

Bradley finished second in a FIFA tourney (never done before him) and won a group at the 2010 World Cup (never done before him).

The Bradley hate is beyond ridiculous. Its a product of the internet and the mass amount of teenage butthurt over pet players like Adu (especially Adu) not earning a spot on the team.

The thing about Bradley that does bother me is the incredibly slow starts that the US team has in almost all of their matches. They are so frustrating to watch because they seem to coast through the half (sometimes longer) and then turn it on in the end. Now, I do think that the occasional slow start could be traced to any number of things (nerves, players, altitude, illness, lack of cohesion, etc.) if it was indeed occasional. This US team does it almost every match. It is extremely frustrating to watch because this team could be really really good if they could play a whole match.

epicSocialism4tw
06-23-2011, 04:30 PM
The thing about Bradley that does bother me is the incredibly slow starts that the US team has in almost all of their matches. They are so frustrating to watch because they seem to coast through the half (sometimes longer) and then turn it on in the end. Now, I do think that the occasional slow start could be traced to any number of things (nerves, players, altitude, illness, lack of cohesion, etc.) if it was indeed occasional. This US team does it almost every match. It is extremely frustrating to watch because this team could be really really good if they could play a whole match.

I blame that on the players. I think that like any other national team, the guys on the US are lackadaisical many times when they get out there. They play alot of soccer year round and US players have to fight for minutes on their clubs abroad. I think it has to do with mental fatigue.

brncs_fan
06-23-2011, 04:37 PM
I blame that on the players. I think that like any other national team, the guys on the US are lackadaisical many times when they get out there. They play alot of soccer year round and US players have to fight for minutes on their clubs abroad. I think it has to do with mental fatigue.

Not sure that I am buying that. Most of the international team's players are on club teams and don't seem to have this same level of malaise at the beginning of matches. If anything, other international teams with more European club players should be more mentally fatigued since their seasons only ended a few weeks ago. Our MLS players aren't nearly as far into their season.

I like Bradley and what he has been able to accomplish. I just hate that part of how our team plays.

epicSocialism4tw
06-23-2011, 04:43 PM
Not sure that I am buying that. Most of the international team's players are on club teams and don't seem to have this same level of malaise at the beginning of matches. If anything, other international teams with more European club players should be more mentally fatigued since their seasons only ended a few weeks ago. Our MLS players aren't nearly as far into their season.

I like Bradley and what he has been able to accomplish. I just hate that part of how our team plays.

The US first team has only one MLS player on it, and he's the highest energy player of the bunch.

Also, there are plenty of other national teams that underachieve. England being the most obvious example.

brncs_fan
06-23-2011, 04:57 PM
The US first team has only one MLS player on it, and he's the highest energy player of the bunch.

Also, there are plenty of other national teams that underachieve. England being the most obvious example.

I don't care who else is underachieving. I care how this team is performing. Besides, if it was a mental thing for the players, their play would either wear down at the end of games or just not show up at all.

Personally, I would chalk it up to a lack of that killer instinct. They play better once they are overcome with the need for survival. If anything, that intensity that they show in the second half needs to be there in the first.

epicSocialism4tw
06-23-2011, 06:03 PM
I don't care who else is underachieving. I care how this team is performing. Besides, if it was a mental thing for the players, their play would either wear down at the end of games or just not show up at all.

Personally, I would chalk it up to a lack of that killer instinct. They play better once they are overcome with the need for survival. If anything, that intensity that they show in the second half needs to be there in the first.

I think you just made my argument for me. The players aren't mentally prepared to compete until they get scored on, despite being perfectly capable of getting the job done.

DHallblows
06-23-2011, 06:21 PM
To me Adu is a true playmaker. Donovan and Dempsey, while good players, just don't possess the ability or vision to reguarly play in their teammates, see the field, and take defenders on.

I'll accept that Landon isn't some fancy, dribbling talent. His worth is not in scoring. But you're suggesting that he doesn't have the ability to make plays to teammates and see the field? I feel like that was well proven incorrect with the goal scored against Panama. That was classic Donovan seeing a lane to set up a scoring opportunity.

And as for Dempsey. Clint is without a doubt, the best field player to be on the US roster in 10 years. Perhaps you don't watch a lot of the Premiership, but Dempsey shows the ability to play to his teammates, see the field and take a defender on 1 on 1 on nearly a weekly basis.

Show me a highlight reel of Adu being a playmaker and I'll show you better reels of Landon and Clint playing against players significantly better.

Next thing I know, you're going to suggest that Adu is better at PKs and corners than Donovan and has better touch and finishing than Dempsey.

Again, I like Adu. More than most (ie. EPIC). I'd say he's better than some midfield options currently being employed by Bradley. And I agree with everything else in that post about his misuse. But until Freddy shows it consistently on the international field, let's not start comparing him to the Premier League talent on the team...

brncs_fan
06-23-2011, 06:39 PM
I think you just made my argument for me. The players aren't mentally prepared to compete until they get scored on, despite being perfectly capable of getting the job done.

But ultimately it is the job of the coach to get the players ready to play.

Atwater His Ass
06-23-2011, 06:39 PM
I actually watch the EPL pretty reguarly. I just don't agree that Dempsey and Adu are the same type of player. Technically, Adu is significantly better than anyone else on the roster and to me, he provides a wrinkle on the team that no one else can.

At times Donovan can make plays and take the team on his back. But his just as easily disappears from matches as well. To me, he's at his best when he has someone continually feeding him the ball and involving him in the game. That's the role I think Adu can fill, which makes the entire team that more dangerous. Espeacially with the lack of quality strikers, it becomes even more important to have a true playmaker that can innovate attacks and allow other players movement off the ball.

Of course Dempsey and Donovan are 10x the overall player at this point in their careers. Although Donovan will always be a little less in my eyes for not playing in Europe. I don't want to turn this into a bash Donovan discussion, as I respect his personal opinion to stay in LA, but it will always be a case of "what if" to me. I mean, let's not pretend that MLS has comparable quality to the top European leagues. I'd also personally love to see Dempsey get a shot a big EPL club, instead of toiling with Fullham forever.

DHallblows
06-23-2011, 10:40 PM
I actually watch the EPL pretty reguarly. I just don't agree that Dempsey and Adu are the same type of player. Technically, Adu is significantly better than anyone else on the roster and to me, he provides a wrinkle on the team that no one else can.

At times Donovan can make plays and take the team on his back. But his just as easily disappears from matches as well. To me, he's at his best when he has someone continually feeding him the ball and involving him in the game. That's the role I think Adu can fill, which makes the entire team that more dangerous. Espeacially with the lack of quality strikers, it becomes even more important to have a true playmaker that can innovate attacks and allow other players movement off the ball.

Of course Dempsey and Donovan are 10x the overall player at this point in their careers. Although Donovan will always be a little less in my eyes for not playing in Europe. I don't want to turn this into a bash Donovan discussion, as I respect his personal opinion to stay in LA, but it will always be a case of "what if" to me. I mean, let's not pretend that MLS has comparable quality to the top European leagues. I'd also personally love to see Dempsey get a shot a big EPL club, instead of toiling with Fullham forever.

Agreed

Agreed

It'd be interesting to see what Clint could do with premier midfielders and strikers feeding him the ball. However I'd like to see him stay with Fulham because I'm a fan, but that's just me.

epicSocialism4tw
06-23-2011, 11:22 PM
I actually watch the EPL pretty reguarly. I just don't agree that Dempsey and Adu are the same type of player. Technically, Adu is significantly better than anyone else on the roster and to me, he provides a wrinkle on the team that no one else can.

At times Donovan can make plays and take the team on his back. But his just as easily disappears from matches as well. To me, he's at his best when he has someone continually feeding him the ball and involving him in the game. That's the role I think Adu can fill, which makes the entire team that more dangerous. Espeacially with the lack of quality strikers, it becomes even more important to have a true playmaker that can innovate attacks and allow other players movement off the ball.

Of course Dempsey and Donovan are 10x the overall player at this point in their careers. Although Donovan will always be a little less in my eyes for not playing in Europe. I don't want to turn this into a bash Donovan discussion, as I respect his personal opinion to stay in LA, but it will always be a case of "what if" to me. I mean, let's not pretend that MLS has comparable quality to the top European leagues. I'd also personally love to see Dempsey get a shot a big EPL club, instead of toiling with Fullham forever.

You feel that Donovan is tarnished by not playing in Europe, but you give Adu the benefit of the doubt despite his much more egregious failures?

epicSocialism4tw
06-23-2011, 11:25 PM
But ultimately it is the job of the coach to get the players ready to play.

That's not how soccer is. It's not a rah-rah sport. Especially international soccer where a coach has barely any time with players.

Soccer players are either motivated for their minutes or they don't play at this level. Unfortunately, the US team doesn't have a deep enough player pool to sit their best player (Dempsey) when he takes a dump in the middle of the field during a game against Guadeloupe. Same goes for Altidore and a few other players who regularly turn in tired efforts.

Requiem
06-24-2011, 11:21 AM
Go Netherlands.

s0phr0syne
06-24-2011, 11:33 AM
Will Charlie Davies be back on the national squad some day?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/sports/2011/06/24/charlie.davies.rebound.cnn?hpt=hp_c2

Atwater His Ass
06-25-2011, 05:42 PM
Adu is starting the final.

Donovan up top. Interesting. I'd rather see Dempsey more advanced with Landon on the wing, but I like the change.

Agudelo could be very dangerous coming off the bench. Would probably still preferred a more attacking lineup by taking either Bradley or Jones out though.

eddie mac
06-25-2011, 06:13 PM
1-0 Bradley whoohooo

Atwater His Ass
06-25-2011, 06:14 PM
**** yeah, Adu looking sharp to help win the corner, and Bradley delivers.

Atwater His Ass
06-25-2011, 06:17 PM
Bornstein? ugggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

eddie mac
06-25-2011, 06:17 PM
Sub already, Cherundelo injured???

eddie mac
06-25-2011, 06:17 PM
The United man missed a sitter there.

Atwater His Ass
06-25-2011, 06:20 PM
Wow. Someone needs to get a check on Hernandez. He could already have a hat trick.

Atwater His Ass
06-25-2011, 06:29 PM
2-0. Beautiful football.

eddie mac
06-25-2011, 06:29 PM
Lovely pass, and a great finish.

eddie mac
06-25-2011, 06:35 PM
Oops my boy just scored, junior Hammer 2-1

Atwater His Ass
06-25-2011, 06:35 PM
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Bornstein

Atwater His Ass
06-25-2011, 06:39 PM
weeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk caution

eddie mac
06-25-2011, 06:42 PM
2-2

eddie mac
06-25-2011, 07:40 PM
That's one of the best goals I've ever seen from Dos Santos.

DHallblows
06-25-2011, 08:09 PM
When one of our 2 good defenders goes down, that's bad news for us.

Still no offensive movement from our CMF.

Howard was average.

Classic USA. 20 good minutes of soccer and 70 bad. It's just that usually the 20 good minutes aren't to start the game.

I miss Gooch.

This game wasn't nearly as close as our announcers suggested it was.

All the flopping reminded me why I like European soccer so much better than Central and South American.

Atwater His Ass
06-25-2011, 08:14 PM
Lichaij should have done a Suarez and punched that ball out, and let us take the chance on the penalty moving forward.

bap454
06-25-2011, 11:00 PM
That's one of the best goals I've ever seen from Dos Santos.

If you get the chance ..go back and watch the replay. Focus only on the goalie( Howard). Thats the funniest reaction I have seen in a long time. Looked like a clip from the old Benny Hill shows. Would make a perfect GIF ( or whatever u call it).:wiggle:

barryr
06-25-2011, 11:32 PM
Iīve never thought Howard was that great a goalie, though not all goals are the goalieīs fault. The flopping does get tiring.

McDman
06-26-2011, 10:04 AM
When one of our 2 good defenders goes down, that's bad news for us.

Still no offensive movement from our CMF.

Howard was average.

Classic USA. 20 good minutes of soccer and 70 bad. It's just that usually the 20 good minutes aren't to start the game.

I miss Gooch.

This game wasn't nearly as close as our announcers suggested it was.

All the flopping reminded me why I like European soccer so much better than Central and South American.

Even when we were winning we didn't look that good. We rarely possessed the ball and gave them way too many chances.

DHallblows
06-26-2011, 11:33 AM
Lichaij should have done a Suarez and punched that ball out, and let us take the chance on the penalty moving forward.

I thought about that, too. Tough call though, hard for Lichaj to know that the ball was hit literally as perfectly as it could have been. He may have been assuming if he couldn't reach it, it was going wide or high ???

DHallblows
06-26-2011, 11:35 AM
Even when we were winning we didn't look that good. We rarely possessed the ball and gave them way too many chances.

Agreed. I was being pretty generous saying we had 20 minutes of solid play

DHallblows
06-26-2011, 01:56 PM
"CONCACAF should be ashamed of themselves," Howard told the Sporting News after the match. "I think it was a [expletive] disgrace that the entire post-match ceremony was in Spanish. You can bet your [butt] if we were in Mexico City, it wouldn't all be in English."

http://www.nesn.com/2011/06/tim-howard-criticizes-concacaf-for-post-match-ceremony-after-gold-cup.html

epicSocialism4tw
06-26-2011, 02:04 PM
Bradley, Adu, Dempsey...all looked solid. Adu is starting to come around and is one to watch for 2014...he's the only forward who can maintain posession to allow the midfielders to get into the play and he can have the occasional moment of brilliance. Good for him. Maybe the light has come on in the Turkish second division.

Lichaj looked solid until Cherundolo left and Bornstein came on...wing defense was pathetic after Dolo left. We could have used Timothy Chandler, who may be the best player on the team.

Jones could have played better...was largely invisible.

Agudelo is far from ready.

Howard was poor. A great keeper should come up with a great save or two in big games. When we needed him to come through with one of them against Ghana, he could not deliver (despite two saveable goals). Same thing yesterday. The Dos Santos goal was his fault, as was the equalizer that he pecked at with his feet instead of smothering the ball with his body. I played keeper for years, and that shows that Howard was trying just as hard not to get hurt as he was to save that ball. The Barera goal was saveable...he just wasn't prepared to make the save...his mind wasn't focused. I miss the days of Keller and Freidel.

McDman
06-27-2011, 03:15 AM
Bradley, Adu, Dempsey...all looked solid. Adu is starting to come around and is one to watch for 2014...he's the only forward who can maintain posession to allow the midfielders to get into the play and he can have the occasional moment of brilliance. Good for him. Maybe the light has come on in the Turkish second division.

Lichaj looked solid until Cherundolo left and Bornstein came on...wing defense was pathetic after Dolo left. We could have used Timothy Chandler, who may be the best player on the team.

Jones could have played better...was largely invisible.

Agudelo is far from ready.

Howard was poor. A great keeper should come up with a great save or two in big games. When we needed him to come through with one of them against Ghana, he could not deliver (despite two saveable goals). Same thing yesterday. The Dos Santos goal was his fault, as was the equalizer that he pecked at with his feet instead of smothering the ball with his body. I played keeper for years, and that shows that Howard was trying just as hard not to get hurt as he was to save that ball. The Barera goal was saveable...he just wasn't prepared to make the save...his mind wasn't focused. I miss the days of Keller and Freidel.

I don't see how anyone could think Bradley had a solid game. Besides having a few good touches on the ball he did nothing positive. I like him but Satirday night was not a good match for him.

Atwater His Ass
06-27-2011, 03:46 AM
How can anyone seriously bash on Howard? He's been nothing short of great for the US in most of the games he played. If anyone deserves a pass for a bad game, it's him, even if it did come at a bad time.

The main problem is being forced to play scrubs like Goodsen and Bornstein. Would have much preferred too see Spector.

LetsGoBroncos
06-27-2011, 08:09 AM
How can anyone seriously bash on Howard? He's been nothing short of great for the US in most of the games he played. If anyone deserves a pass for a bad game, it's him, even if it did come at a bad time.

The main problem is being forced to play scrubs like Goodsen and Bornstein. Would have much preferred too see Spector.

Wrong. For some reason he has a reputation of being really good and he's not.

Last world cup he was average against Slovenia, and the goal Ghana scored to beat us was terrible. A shot low to the near post from 25 yards out.

He sucked Saturday night against Mexico. You could make an argument he could have stopped all 4 goals

Smiling Assassin27
06-27-2011, 09:28 AM
Is it me or does Adu still think he can dribble thru guys like he used to as a 14 year old?

As for Howard, I think it might be time to give some new blood a shot. He's a name and has experience but seems to have become inconsistent and erratic.

Does anyone have a take on the tactics after we went up 2-0? Lalas was saying that they should've packed it in defensively at that point. Does that fall on Bradley?

MplsBronco
06-27-2011, 09:46 AM
Good to see I am not the only one who feels this way about Howard. Guy is nothing special to me. In fact, I can't stand him. That goal against Ghana to the near post and then another one against Mexico to the near post...terrible. You should never get beat near post. And then the third goal from Mexico. Great shot, yes, but the fact that Howard was no where near the ball??? I can remember, did he even dive for it or was he that flat footed. Anyway, all last World Cup I muttered to myself it would be nice to have a goalie make some amazing saves and help you win games. Howard is not that guy.

LetsGoBroncos
06-27-2011, 10:23 AM
Good to see I am not the only one who feels this way about Howard. Guy is nothing special to me. In fact, I can't stand him. That goal against Ghana to the near post and then another one against Mexico to the near post...terrible. You should never get beat near post. And then the third goal from Mexico. Great shot, yes, but the fact that Howard was no where near the ball??? I can remember, did he even dive for it or was he that flat footed. Anyway, all last World Cup I muttered to myself it would be nice to have a goalie make some amazing saves and help you win games. Howard is not that guy.

Exactly. It seems like 90% of the goals that get scored on us I find myself thinking "that wasn't necessarily his fault but he sure could have made the save."

The bottom line with goaltending in soccer and hockey is if your goalie doesn't make a couple saves a game that make you say "wow" you will get 3-4 scored on you that game. That is their job...to make a couple of really tough saves and not let the soft ones in

s0phr0syne
06-27-2011, 10:24 AM
I don't know enough to really judge goalie play, but regardless of that, it really seems like the team has more pressing issues to address...

Goalies can really only do so much. Yeah, it's nice to get a spectacular save or two, but ultimately it's much more important to have a solid back four and good contributions from the defensive midfield to limit easy goal scoring opportunities.

epicSocialism4tw
06-27-2011, 10:34 AM
I don't know enough to really judge goalie play, but regardless of that, it really seems like the team has more pressing issues to address...

Goalies can really only do so much. Yeah, it's nice to get a spectacular save or two, but ultimately it's much more important to have a solid back four and good contributions from the defensive midfield to limit easy goal scoring opportunities.

We have been spoiled with keepers. Both Friedel and Keller both were amazing shot-stoppers who would come up with big time saves in big games (think Friedel's save of the S. Korean penalty in 2002, Keller's bevy of massive saves against Brazil). Howard is occasionally that guy, but he is not consistent.

DHallblows
06-27-2011, 11:08 AM
Howard is no Kasey Keller, I completely agree. But he's still a top 5 goalie in the English Premier League. We don't currently have a better option. Brad Friedel is 40. If he's so good we might as well bring back Keller, he's 41.

And who even gives a ****? Howard's play is like #5 on our list of things to fix.
-We need 2 good (I'd accept above average at this point) strikers.
-We need 2 good center midfielders.
-We have zero depth at D. Bocanegra and Cherundolo are our only great defenders (and perhaps Gooch whenever he gets back)
-Goalie play is less than consistent

So ok, #4 on the list.

Get me 2 strikers, 1.5 CMFs, 2-4 defenders and then we can start to complain about our goalie who is 1 of 4 U.S. players that can crack an English Premier League starting roster :oyvey:

epicSocialism4tw
06-27-2011, 11:16 AM
Howard is no Kasey Keller, I completely agree. But he's still a top 5 goalie in the English Premier League. We don't currently have a better option. Brad Friedel is 40. If he's so good we might as well bring back Keller, he's 41.

And who even gives a ****? Howard's play is like #5 on our list of things to fix.
-We need 2 good (I'd accept above average at this point) strikers.
-We need 2 good center midfielders.
-We have zero depth at D. Bocanegra and Cherundolo are our only great defenders (and perhaps Gooch whenever he gets back)
-Goalie play is less than consistent

So ok, #4 on the list.

Get me 2 strikers, 1.5 CMFs, 2-4 defenders and then we can start to complain about our goalie who is 1 of 4 U.S. players that can crack an English Premier League starting roster :oyvey:

The team is fine except for the back four. However, I believe that had Cherundolo not been injured, that the US would not have allowed a single goal in that game. That pushed Lichaj to the opposite side and put Bornstein on the field.

The US team was missing arguably its best two players in RB Timothy Chandler and Stuart Holden. Holden was one of the top center mids in the premeirship last season. Chandler is arguably the best young wing back in the Bundesliga.

I made no insinuation that I wished Howard to be replaced. There is no better replacement. Friedel retired years ago.

MplsBronco
06-27-2011, 11:30 AM
Howard is no Kasey Keller, I completely agree. But he's still a top 5 goalie in the English Premier League. We don't currently have a better option. Brad Friedel is 40. If he's so good we might as well bring back Keller, he's 41.

And who even gives a ****? Howard's play is like #5 on our list of things to fix.
-We need 2 good (I'd accept above average at this point) strikers.
-We need 2 good center midfielders.
-We have zero depth at D. Bocanegra and Cherundolo are our only great defenders (and perhaps Gooch whenever he gets back)
-Goalie play is less than consistent

So ok, #4 on the list.

Get me 2 strikers, 1.5 CMFs, 2-4 defenders and then we can start to complain about our goalie who is 1 of 4 U.S. players that can crack an English Premier League starting roster :oyvey:

Goalie is the only position we have ever produced quality players from.

MplsBronco
06-27-2011, 11:32 AM
But I agree, there are many holes to fill. Looking for 2 solid strikers is a pipe dream since we have never produced a single great one. Looking at what Mexico has for years to come is depressing. And our back line is abysmal. What happened to Demerit? He was at least serviceable.

epicSocialism4tw
06-27-2011, 11:33 AM
Goalie is the only position we have ever produced quality players from.

We're also producing a dearth of midfielders. Dempsey, Donovan, Holden, Bradley, and Edu have all had success abroad in assorted leagues.

Until this last couple of years, we also produced backs.

epicSocialism4tw
06-27-2011, 11:35 AM
But I agree, there are many holes to fill. Looking for 2 solid strikers is a pipe dream since we have never produced a single great one. Looking at what Mexico has for years to come is depressing. And our back line is abysmal. What happened to Demerit? He was at least serviceable.

Our top striker was out. Altidore, though still just a pup, is the best striker that we have.

So really, the US team was missing 3 of its top 11.

MplsBronco
06-27-2011, 11:49 AM
You right about the other positions although striker is and always has been an issue. I'm just frustrated that this team seems to be treading water. With our resources and population size, we should be better. We just don't have the ingrained history for the sport.

As for missing 3 of the top 11, wasn't Mexico missing like 5 players? Struggling agains teh likes of Panama et al is discouraging.

epicSocialism4tw
06-27-2011, 12:10 PM
You right about the other positions although striker is and always has been an issue. I'm just frustrated that this team seems to be treading water. With our resources and population size, we should be better. We just don't have the ingrained history for the sport.

As for missing 3 of the top 11, wasn't Mexico missing like 5 players? Struggling agains teh likes of Panama et al is discouraging.

Mexico were missing basically a bunch of bench players aside from their keeper Ochoa, who isn't really anything to write home about anyway.

DHallblows
06-27-2011, 12:23 PM
The team is fine except for the back four. However, I believe that had Cherundolo not been injured, that the US would not have allowed a single goal in that game. That pushed Lichaj to the opposite side and put Bornstein on the field.

That's the keyword, fine. A "fine" team may win the Gold Cup, but it won't make it out of the Second Round of the World Cup. I'm not happy with the team being "fine" using our current strikers, CMFs and defenders.

Nobody has talked about it, but Goodson was nothing more than serviceable in the Gold Cup. Gooch needs to get back in. Along with Holden and Spector.

epicSocialism4tw
06-27-2011, 12:47 PM
That's the keyword, fine. A "fine" team may win the Gold Cup, but it won't make it out of the Second Round of the World Cup. I'm not happy with the team being "fine" using our current strikers, CMFs and defenders.

Nobody has talked about it, but Goodson was nothing more than serviceable in the Gold Cup. Gooch needs to get back in. Along with Holden and Spector.

Goodson did alright.

The goals against Mexico came from the wings. The US team was missing their top two outside defenders.

I wouldn't mind seeing Spector and Boca in the middle though. Spector tends to get a little bit mentally lost at times though. I'm a big Gooch fan, and its just unfortunate that the big man hasn't fully recovered from his knee injury. People don't realize just how big of an impact Gooch had in the air game in both boxes. He had to be accounted for at all times on set pieces because he was dominant in the air.

s0phr0syne
06-27-2011, 01:21 PM
Against Spain a few weeks ago, I thought that Spector was shifted from RB to Defensive Mid. Seems unlikely that he's a real candidate for playing center back, right?

DHallblows
06-27-2011, 01:35 PM
Goodson did alright.

The goals against Mexico came from the wings. The US team was missing their top two outside defenders.

I wouldn't mind seeing Spector and Boca in the middle though. Spector tends to get a little bit mentally lost at times though. I'm a big Gooch fan, and its just unfortunate that the big man hasn't fully recovered from his knee injury. People don't realize just how big of an impact Gooch had in the air game in both boxes. He had to be accounted for at all times on set pieces because he was dominant in the air.

Agreed. But Mexico had a few chances that came straight down the middle through Goodson that we were lucky to not have go in.

Atwater His Ass
06-27-2011, 03:13 PM
Howard is no Kasey Keller, I completely agree. But he's still a top 5 goalie in the English Premier League. We don't currently have a better option. Brad Friedel is 40. If he's so good we might as well bring back Keller, he's 41.

And who even gives a ****? Howard's play is like #5 on our list of things to fix.
-We need 2 good (I'd accept above average at this point) strikers.
-We need 2 good center midfielders.
-We have zero depth at D. Bocanegra and Cherundolo are our only great defenders (and perhaps Gooch whenever he gets back)
-Goalie play is less than consistent

So ok, #4 on the list.

Get me 2 strikers, 1.5 CMFs, 2-4 defenders and then we can start to complain about our goalie who is 1 of 4 U.S. players that can crack an English Premier League starting roster :oyvey:

No ****. Howard is so far from the problem on this team it's ridiculous.

For every mistake he made yesterday, I could list 10 outstanding saves he's made when the team has left him out to dry.

Atwater His Ass
06-27-2011, 03:25 PM
The back four is the biggest weakness. Gooch, Bocenegra, Cherundolo are all getting old. Timothy Chandler looks like he could be a stud, but guys like Bornstein and Goodson should never be called up again. I'm a fan of Spector and still kind of shocked he didn't get put in instead of Bornstein. Lichaj is only 22, and plays quality. Tim ream is also a young CB with potential. So we have a servicable starting back 4, but no depth.

DeMerit is done imo at the international level. He had a lackluster world cup, and couldn't even find a job back in Europe, having to settle for MLS.

But the collapse against Mexico has to be laid at Bradley's feet. He didn't have to bring on Bornstein, he could have used Spector and kept Lichaj at left back. Even at halftime, when everyone saw Bornstein getting thrased, he still could have made the change. He even could have brought on Ream or Edu at CB, moving Bocenegra to left back and Lichaj to right back and it would have been a better decision than Bornstein.

Let's not forget that we were missing Stu Holden as well, who was in excellent form for Bolton before being injured on that horendous tackle. If he's in the lineup, it gives the US a lot of options in how to structure the midfield and also free up guys like Dempsey and Donovan to play up top. Midfield is actually a strong point for this team, with a lot of quality players. I hang the hat on Bradley for not being able to develop any tactics that take advantage of the legitimate skill we have there.

Strikers....yeah. Kind of sad our best options are playing natural midfielders out of positon. I mean, how pathetic is it that our best international striker can't even find regular playing time in a top European league?

epicSocialism4tw
06-27-2011, 03:30 PM
The back four is the biggest weakness. Gooch, Bocenegra, Cherundolo are all getting old. Timothy Chandler looks like he could be a stud, but guys like Bornstein and Goodson should never be called up again. I'm a fan of Spector and still kind of shocked he didn't get put in instead of Bornstein. Lichaj is only 22, and plays quality. Tim ream is also a young CB with potential. So we have a servicable starting back 4, but no depth.

DeMerit is done imo at the international level. He had a lackluster world cup, and couldn't even find a job back in Europe, having to settle for MLS.

But the collapse against Mexico has to be laid at Bradley's feet. He didn't have to bring on Bornstein, he could have used Spector and kept Lichaj at left back. Even at halftime, when everyone saw Bornstein getting thrased, he still could have made the change. He even could have brought on Ream or Edu at CB, moving Bocenegra to left back and Lichaj to right back and it would have been a better decision than Bornstein.

Let's not forget that we were missing Stu Holden as well, who was in excellent form for Bolton before being injured on that horendous tackle. If he's in the lineup, it gives the US a lot of options in how to structure the midfield and also free up guys like Dempsey and Donovan to play up top. Midfield is actually a strong point for this team, with a lot of quality players. I hang the hat on Bradley for not being able to develop any tactics that take advantage of the legitimate skill we have there.

Strikers....yeah. Kind of sad our best options are playing natural midfielders out of positon. I mean, how pathetic is it that our best international striker can't even find regular playing time in a top European league?

People are too quick to blame Bradley and too slow to give him credit.

Spector was not an option because there was no speed out there with him, Boca, and Goodson. The US needed speed because the mexicans bring Berera, Guardado, Dos Santos, and Hernandez in attack...all are speed players. Spector was not an option. He doesn't fare well at all against little fast players. You can see why Bob would choose Bornstein...he plays in the FMF with mexican players and was the fastest of the bunch.

Things are much more nuanced than "Bradley sucks".

epicSocialism4tw
06-27-2011, 03:31 PM
No ****. Howard is so far from the problem on this team it's ridiculous.

For every mistake he made yesterday, I could list 10 outstanding saves he's made when the team has left him out to dry.

Howard needs to make a save.

That's what keepers are for.

McDman
06-27-2011, 05:42 PM
The team is fine except for the back four. However, I believe that had Cherundolo not been injured, that the US would not have allowed a single goal in that game. That pushed Lichaj to the opposite side and put Bornstein on the field.

The US team was missing arguably its best two players in RB Timothy Chandler and Stuart Holden. Holden was one of the top center mids in the premeirship last season. Chandler is arguably the best young wing back in the Bundesliga.

I made no insinuation that I wished Howard to be replaced. There is no better replacement. Friedel retired years ago.

I disagree, Mexico had too much possession and looked too good not to score.

s0phr0syne
07-08-2011, 01:29 PM
Who all has been tuning into the Copa America games?

I'm very excited about the Chile vs Uruguay match up tonight.

The earlier game b/w Chile and Mexico-B was reasonable, but I was surprised by Chile's lack of comparative quality considering some of the great players they have. Either bodes poorly for them, or for the future of Mexico's national teams...

Argentina has been very mediocre so far...watched their game against Colombia last night, not sure why the killer instinct isn't there, especially on their home turf coming off of the disappointing 2010 WC performance.