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View Full Version : So how much will Orton get (comment from Mortensen)?


Denver724
10-21-2009, 09:00 PM
I brought this up in a previous thread a few weeks ago. Many thought Orton would be in the 20-30 range. I thought 35-40. Below is from Mort's chat. He says a Cassel deal. Didn't he get 60 million?


Mort,With how Kyle Orton has played this year, do you think the Broncos are going to give him a long term deal?

Chris Mortensen


Interesting. Orton is making $995,000 in the final year of his deal. No way the Broncos are letting him go, so they can franchise him or they can work on a long-term deal. My guess is he'll get signed to one of those Matt Cassel-type contracts. And good for him.

Denver724
10-21-2009, 09:01 PM
More from Mort.

John (Denver)


As a Bronco fan I love what Orton has done, but wow I hope they don't make a huge mistake and give him Cassell money. You can't give that much money to a non elite qb.

Chris Mortensen


Elite money is what Peyton, Ben, Eli and P. Rivers are making.... Cassel, Romo, Cutler deals, etc., are a good cut below that.

Bronco Yoda
10-21-2009, 09:04 PM
Way too early. Orton has to show us something when the games really count.

BroncoBuff
10-21-2009, 09:13 PM
Way too early. Orton has to show us something when the games really count.

Agreed ... but it looks like he'll be moving up a few zip codes either way.

RhymesayersDU
10-21-2009, 09:28 PM
Agreed ... but it looks like he'll be moving up a few zip codes either way.

Maybe he'll buy Shanny's pad in Cherry Creek?

Kaylore
10-21-2009, 09:36 PM
Way too early. Orton has to show us something when the games really count.

Yeah because these games don't count right now...:tinfoilha

I say lock him up. If he blows up with huge numbers down the road it will be a good value.

Archer81
10-21-2009, 09:45 PM
Incentive laden deal, that could be a 60 mil contract, with team and player options for voidable years.

:Broncos:

Elway777
10-21-2009, 09:46 PM
I would not give him more then 4-5 million a year. Orton is a Game manager that wouldn't be that good in another system. Also he has the best offensive line in football. If he wants more then the Broncos sign David Carr for 2 million . Carr could do just as good as Orton with our offensive line and in our system.

Rock Chalk
10-21-2009, 09:59 PM
I would not give him more then 4-5 million a year. Orton is a Game manager that wouldn't be that good in another system. Also he has the best offensive line in football. If he wants more then the Broncos sign David Carr for 2 million . Carr could do just as good as Orton with our offensive line and in our system.

**** no.

Carr is ruined. Shell shocked and will never be a good player in the NFL.

wolf754life
10-21-2009, 10:34 PM
you guys are funny

mcdaniels develops QBs thats what he does best.

no hurry on orton, he's doing well now, no need to go there right now

orton knows what he has here, great coaching, great oline, good teammates....etc.

he will take a discount

Paladin
10-21-2009, 11:08 PM
Way too early. Orton has to show us something when the games really count.

?

Lolad
10-21-2009, 11:14 PM
I think we should look at our options at the end of the season. There's no need to even be thinking about this now we still have 10 games to play

baja
10-21-2009, 11:23 PM
Remember Brian Griese

and his early saviour type contract then remember the dead money we had to eat

RhymesayersDU
10-21-2009, 11:29 PM
You know what I find hilarious? The Matt Cassel angle. Hear me out here.

During the offseason, it was Matt Cassel who put the Cutler wheels in motion. And now, it's Matt Cassel who is going to help us re-sign Orton at a reasonable rate.

The way I see it, Cassel has been a flop in KC. Now I know he has no running game, no line, no talent period outside of Bowe. But he was supposed to be a legit QB who could really be the man. They paid big money for him, etc.

This might just be a crackpot theory, but I think people are going to see what McD did with Cassel in NE, and then see what Cassel did in KC w/o him. Vastly different outcomes. I don't think any other team is going to court Orton to be their starter. At all. They're going to assume he's a system guy with limitations, and hell, maybe he is just that.

I'd be in no hurry. I like what he's done so far, but I think Denver has most of the leverage here. I don't see another team offering him hundreds of millions of dollars.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-21-2009, 11:36 PM
According to this site, there is no one on this team that is worth getting paid. Everyone needs an incentive-based contract, or they need to be given a take it or leave it offer. It's hilarious reading posts from people who are absolutely petrified that money that isn't their own, might be mis-spent.

If $60M is the going rate for a QB that's a notch below the elite QBs, then that's what it's going to take to re-sign Orton if that's the direction McDaniels wants to go in.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-21-2009, 11:37 PM
I would not give him more then 4-5 million a year. Orton is a Game manager that wouldn't be that good in another system. Also he has the best offensive line in football. If he wants more then the Broncos sign David Carr for 2 million . Carr could do just as good as Orton with our offensive line and in our system.

Please stop with your continued undervaluation of Broncos and your complete overvaluation of players who are not on this team.

Carr sucks.

BroncoMan4ever
10-21-2009, 11:37 PM
Way too early. Orton has to show us something when the games really count.

2 late 90+ yard drives to come from behind and get us a win against NE showed me that he has the ability to take over games and lead his team to victory. plus his 27-12 record as a starter and him kicking ass for us this season makes me feel he is worth Cassel type money. plus the fact that he has more than a single season's worth of experience as a starter makes him a safer bet than Cassel

RhymesayersDU
10-21-2009, 11:39 PM
Herc, I see what you're saying, but for instance, Brandon Marshall could do what he does in any city. I'm on the "pay him NOW" bandwagon. I think Doom needs to be paid as well.

I just think that with Orton the team doesn't need to make any rash decisions or jump the gun without seeing what the market will bear.

I guess for Orton in particular, I'm not sure his talents will be high valued by other teams, and there's not a huge need to panic about him status.

BroncoMan4ever
10-21-2009, 11:46 PM
I would not give him more then 4-5 million a year. Orton is a Game manager that wouldn't be that good in another system. Also he has the best offensive line in football. If he wants more then the Broncos sign David Carr for 2 million . Carr could do just as good as Orton with our offensive line and in our system.

are you drunk? did you not watch the NE game?

when do you ever see a game manager lead not 1 but 2 drives of over 90 yards for TDs to get his team a victory against what the media believes to be the greatest team in the league?

Cutler couldn't do that with our line and our weapons. and so many people see him as a franchise QB.

also, the way i see it, a franchise QB is a QB that plays well when his team needs him to carry the load, has the respect and admiration of his teammates that they will follow him onto the field and give all they have for him, doesn't put his team into ****ty situations, and wins. Orton is all those things, and he is getting better as the season is progressing.

and give me a break on David Carr. he is so shell shocked and damaged that he can never become good again.

BroncoMan4ever
10-21-2009, 11:52 PM
Herc, I see what you're saying, but for instance, Brandon Marshall could do what he does in any city. I'm on the "pay him NOW" bandwagon. I think Doom needs to be paid as well.

I just think that with Orton the team doesn't need to make any rash decisions or jump the gun without seeing what the market will bear.

I guess for Orton in particular, I'm not sure his talents will be high valued by other teams, and there's not a huge need to panic about him status.

i disagree. QBs that have records like he does, are the types of leaders he is, and the type of team player he is are major commodities. every team in the league wants a QB like him. if he hits the open market, it is very likely that a bidding war begins and we could be on the losing end of that, and instead of having a QB who can continue to build upon the success he is having this year, we have to start over again at square 1 teaching a new guy the system and watching the offense struggle a little while they get into the groove and get their timing down.

also, hypothetically if we get a 1st round QB, his contract as an unproven rookie will be of basically the same amount as a proven winner like Kyle Orton

spdirty
10-21-2009, 11:52 PM
wow. Some people are going waaaaaaaay overboard with the orton love here. Orton will REFUSE to go anywhere else after this season is over. Like wolf said, we can get him at a discount.

dextermilo
10-21-2009, 11:55 PM
Way too early. Orton has to show us something when the games really count.

You clearly think like the Chargers

BroncoMan4ever
10-21-2009, 11:55 PM
You know what I find hilarious? The Matt Cassel angle. Hear me out here.

During the offseason, it was Matt Cassel who put the Cutler wheels in motion. And now, it's Matt Cassel who is going to help us re-sign Orton at a reasonable rate.

The way I see it, Cassel has been a flop in KC. Now I know he has no running game, no line, no talent period outside of Bowe. But he was supposed to be a legit QB who could really be the man. They paid big money for him, etc.

This might just be a crackpot theory, but I think people are going to see what McD did with Cassel in NE, and then see what Cassel did in KC w/o him. Vastly different outcomes. I don't think any other team is going to court Orton to be their starter. At all. They're going to assume he's a system guy with limitations, and hell, maybe he is just that.

I'd be in no hurry. I like what he's done so far, but I think Denver has most of the leverage here. I don't see another team offering him hundreds of millions of dollars.

Orton before Denver was a QB with a 21-12 record as a starter. all the guy does is win games, drink and grow neckbeards. unlike Cassel who was a 1 year wonder, Orton has started in the league before and has shown an ability to get the job done even before Denver.

dude is going to be in line for major cash somewhere else if we try to lowball him and allow him to test the market

RhymesayersDU
10-21-2009, 11:56 PM
i disagree. QBs that have records like he does, are the types of leaders he is, and the type of team player he is are major commodities. every team in the league wants a QB like him. if he hits the open market, it is very likely that a bidding war begins and we could be on the losing end of that, and instead of having a QB who can continue to build upon the success he is having this year, we have to start over again at square 1 teaching a new guy the system and watching the offense struggle a little while they get into the groove and get their timing down.

also, hypothetically if we get a 1st round QB, his contract as an unproven rookie will be of basically the same amount as a proven winner like Kyle Orton

Look, I agree there is a lot to like about Orton. Seems like a good guy, teammates love him, etc. But I also wonder how many teams have a Top-10 WR, a top flight defense, an elite o-line, etc.

Maybe I'm undervaluing his talent. That's quite possible. I just don't know how many situations that Orton would fit. If you're a GM, do you really put Orton out there with poor talent and ask him to carry the load in a rebuilding project? I don't know.

Of course, then we would have to get into the whole "what teams will need a QB next season" discussion. Which certainly could be interesting.

RhymesayersDU
10-22-2009, 12:03 AM
So I decided to look through the teams that I thought would be in the market for a new QB. Here's what I came up with:

Buffalo
Cleveland (Although I think they're tied to either DA or BQ)
Tennessee (Unsure of the Young situation)
Oakland (Same deal w/ Jamarcus)
Washington
Minnesota (If Favre were to retire, even then they may stick with Rosenfels/Jackson)
Carolina
Tampa Bay (Doubtful; they just drafted that one guy)
San Francisco
Seattle (Isn't Hasselbeck always hurt? Maybe not)
St. Louis


Sure, could a GM throw some ridiculous cash Orton's way? Of course. But thinking about it, would Orton really succeed in any of those situations? I don't think so. Actually, maybe Minnesota if Favre retired. They have all the pieces.

BroncoMan4ever
10-22-2009, 12:27 AM
So I decided to look through the teams that I thought would be in the market for a new QB. Here's what I came up with:

Buffalo
Cleveland (Although I think they're tied to either DA or BQ)
Tennessee (Unsure of the Young situation)
Oakland (Same deal w/ Jamarcus)
Washington
Minnesota (If Favre were to retire, even then they may stick with Rosenfels/Jackson)
Carolina
Tampa Bay (Doubtful; they just drafted that one guy)
San Francisco
Seattle (Isn't Hasselbeck always hurt? Maybe not)
St. Louis


Sure, could a GM throw some ridiculous cash Orton's way? Of course. But thinking about it, would Orton really succeed in any of those situations? I don't think so. Actually, maybe Minnesota if Favre retired. They have all the pieces.

it is a good point. and i might be overvaluing the guy because i have always been a fan of his, but i just think of guys like Cassel, Schaub, Derek Anderson, dudes who had a decent year and suddenly got paid like superstars. it may not work out in the long term for Orton if he were to get a mega deal from another team, but with the QB position, if there is even a slight chance that a QB can have the kind of success Orton is having for another team. Owners will pay out the ass to get that guy.

i just don't think we should lowball him or play games and let him test the open market in hopes that he only wants to be here, because for enough money anyone in the league can be had.

Natedog24
10-22-2009, 12:57 AM
Remember Brian Griese

and his early saviour type contract then remember the dead money we had to eat

Exactly lets see how the rest of this year plays out before we plan on offering Orton the world. Orton isn't the only key Bronco in a contract year...

Greybeard
10-22-2009, 01:19 AM
Way too early. Orton has to show us something when the games really count.

Um . . . so the Patriots and Chargers games didn't really count? ???

-----

Popps
10-22-2009, 02:13 AM
Yea, I love Orton... but let's slow down, here.

Lots of other guys to get locked up, first. I have a feeling Kyle will be patient and play his cards right with all of this, unlike you know who.

BroncoMan4ever
10-22-2009, 02:20 AM
Um . . . so the Patriots and Chargers games didn't really count? ???

-----

exactly. in 2 games that were either watched by the national audience or paid attention to by everyone, he outperformed the 2 supposedly elite QBs that were supposed to beat Denver easily in back to back weeks.

i have gotten to the point where i believe Orton has proven more than enough for us to begin working towards a new contract with him, and for us to be happy with the thought of him as our QB of the present and future.

BroncoMan4ever
10-22-2009, 02:26 AM
Yea, I love Orton... but let's slow down, here.

Lots of other guys to get locked up, first. I have a feeling Kyle will be patient and play his cards right with all of this, unlike you know who.

we need to start working on Doom's deal now, before he elevates himself to money only Snyder or Jones can afford.

Kuper is next. i love Marshall and Orton and Scheff but Kuper is too important to let walk this offseason. he is a major piece of why this team is good. don't screw with the biggest strength of our team the Offensive Line.

Marshall after those 2. he is a major weapon, but those 2 are more important to the whole team than he is at the moment and don't have questionable histories that would hinder a team from throwing money at them.

Orton after because i agree he wants to stay here, and we can work to get a good fair deal for both sides with him instead of dumping a trash truck of cash on his doorstep like the Chiefs did with Cassel.

and as much as i love Scheff, he isn't coming back next season. he doesn't fit with this offense. and needs to be in a place where the TE is used often.

Caveat Lector
10-22-2009, 02:38 AM
Here are a couple of QB contract extensions signed recently -

(2007) Bulger - 6 yearsa $65 mil ($27 mil guaranteed)
(2007) Romo - 6 years $67.5 mil
(2008) Garrard - 6 years $60 mil ($18 mil guaranteed)
(2009) Cassel - 6 years $63 mil ($28 mil guaranteed)

Would have thought Orton was in this ball-park. The common trend with these guys is that they really only had ONE good year when they signed their extensions, so there's not much of a 'wait and see' approach with regard to QB's. If you got a good one, you pay 'em...

Elway777
10-22-2009, 03:19 AM
**** no.

Carr is ruined. Shell shocked and will never be a good player in the NFL.
Carr looked awesome playing in pre season. Giants have almost as good of offensive line as the Broncos. I think almost any Nfl quacterback with a great offensive line plus playing in McDaniels system whould do good . The Broncos could of easily be 3-3 right now. The Broncos got lucky in the first game . In the dallas game Orton throw a ball that when right through the defender hands and the Broncos scored a touchdown, That ball could of just as easily been picked off by Dallas and ran the other way for a touchdown. In the New England game orton throw a ball that New England drop in the endzone that could of been picked off in overtime. I think orton is a decent QB and want the Broncos to resign him but he is just a systems QB like Cassel and don't want the Broncos to dump a ton of money on Him. Orton is not winning games for the Broncos our defensive and Offensive line are winning Games for the Broncos.Orton also is not loosing games that that is why I want the Broncos to keep him until they get a franchise type QB.

Elway777
10-22-2009, 03:23 AM
Here are a couple of QB contract extensions signed recently -

(2007) Bulger - 6 yearsa $65 mil ($27 mil guaranteed)
(2007) Romo - 6 years $67.5 mil
(2008) Garrard - 6 years $60 mil ($18 mil guaranteed)
(2009) Cassel - 6 years $63 mil ($28 mil guaranteed)

Would have thought Orton was in this ball-park. The common trend with these guys is that they really only had ONE good year when they signed their extensions, so there's not much of a 'wait and see' approach with regard to QB's. If you got a good one, you pay 'em... That is way to much money to committ to a player like Orton. I really don't want to be stuck like the Rams with Bulger or the Cheifs with Cassel .

Elway777
10-22-2009, 03:28 AM
exactly. in 2 games that were either watched by the national audience or paid attention to by everyone, he outperformed the 2 supposedly elite QBs that were supposed to beat Denver easily in back to back weeks.

i have gotten to the point where i believe Orton has proven more than enough for us to begin working towards a new contract with him, and for us to be happy with the thought of him as our QB of the present and future. So you think Orton is better then Brady and Rivers. That really scares me when people make Orton out to be an elite Qb.

Caveat Lector
10-22-2009, 03:34 AM
That is way to much money to committ to a player like Orton. I really don't want to be stuck like the Rams with Bulger or the Cheifs with Cassel .

What do you mean a player like Orton? A guy who is undefeated on this team and basically hasn't turned the ball over yet?

The thing is if we don't pay Orton someone else will. It's not that easy to find QB's who play well and win in this league, that's why these guys got extended when they did. He'll be 27 at the end of the year, I see no reason why we shouldn't extend him handsomely...

BroncoMan4ever
10-22-2009, 03:35 AM
So you think Orton is better then Brady and Rivers. That really scares me when people make Orton out to be an elite Qb.

i never said that. i said he outperformed them head to head and that is something to take note of. those guys are talked about as 2 of the best in the business and in back to back weeks Orton was the better QB. what i meant by bringing up beating Brady and Rivers is he has the necessary talent and ability to hang with the best and be seen as a really good QB in this league.

(side note) i actually believe that if the Pats kept Cassel and Brady ended up in KC, that KC would still be as terrible as they are with Cassel.

BroncoMan4ever
10-22-2009, 03:42 AM
That is way to much money to committ to a player like Orton. I really don't want to be stuck like the Rams with Bulger or the Cheifs with Cassel .

unlike guys like Bulger Romo, Cassel and Garrard, it isn't like Orton has just come out of nowhere to be noticed as a good QB deserving of a big payday.

those guys had 1 year and got paid. Orton while he hasn't lit up stat sheets or scoreboards, he wins games. and has been doing that for a few years now. it is known what can be expected of him. smart, won't make stupid mistakes, will take care of the ball, is a great leader and team player, and when he has protection and a little help can play at an elite level.

so many people are calling him a game manager, but how many game managers have you heard of taking their teams on two 90+ yard scoring drives in the 4th quarter to bring his team back and get a win, or that throw the ball over 30 times a game, and average almost 250 passing yards a game?

there are a lot of suitors for a guy who wins games, regardless of doing it by managing games, taking them over, or just not making mistakes. teams will hand a QB like that bags of money to play for them.

UberBroncoMan
10-22-2009, 03:46 AM
I honestly don't see Orton making Cassel money etc.

He will want to stay here, with this offense, with this O-line, with this WR core.

He'll take a 30-40 mill 5 year deal to do it because honestly, I don't see another team that he could walk into as a starter and not be surrounded by stuff that will make his life a nightmare in comparison to what he has in Denver.

Whatever he gets, I'm really worried about us being able to sign all of our impending FA's.

eddie mac
10-22-2009, 05:24 AM
Orton is a Restricted Free Agent next year so no-one will be throwing any offers his way unless we either.

1. Dont extend the deal

2. Do something stupid like dont put and 1st and 3rd rd tender on him.

By the way Mort I'd love to know how you can Franchise a Restricted Free Agent???

Premier-Ace55
10-22-2009, 06:15 AM
I thought that he was unrestricted bmarsh, doom, and kupe were restricted if the cba isn't reached

Garcia Bronco
10-22-2009, 06:27 AM
Why do you guys worry about what these guys are getting paid? Who cares...:

Dedhed
10-22-2009, 06:39 AM
You know what I find hilarious? The Matt Cassel angle. Hear me out here.

During the offseason, it was Matt Cassel who put the Cutler wheels in motion. And now, it's Matt Cassel who is going to help us re-sign Orton at a reasonable rate.

The way I see it, Cassel has been a flop in KC. Now I know he has no running game, no line, no talent period outside of Bowe. But he was supposed to be a legit QB who could really be the man. They paid big money for him, etc.

This might just be a crackpot theory, but I think people are going to see what McD did with Cassel in NE, and then see what Cassel did in KC w/o him. Vastly different outcomes. I don't think any other team is going to court Orton to be their starter. At all. They're going to assume he's a system guy with limitations, and hell, maybe he is just that.

I'd be in no hurry. I like what he's done so far, but I think Denver has most of the leverage here. I don't see another team offering him hundreds of millions of dollars.

I agree with you on the principle that Cassel's situation devalues Orton a bit if you look at it in a vacuum, but then you have Cutler pulling Orton's value in the exact opposite direction. Here an "elite" QB goes into Chicago and looks considerably more pedestrian than he did in Denver. That is going to make GMs look at Orton and say "well maybe it was Chicago that was keeping him from reaching his potential.

I think it's pretty much a wash in terms of outside forces. The one thing I would add is that I think that Orton is a guy who will take less money to stay in Denver. Level headed, and doesn't really care about being seen as a playa. Knows that he's not going to get better coaching anywhere else, and I think he's a perfect fit for the Colorado lifestyle.

I think Orton's personality gives us a better chance at a reasonable contract than the outside market does.

c_lazy_r
10-22-2009, 06:47 AM
Why do you guys worry about what these guys are getting paid? Who cares...:

This.

errand
10-22-2009, 07:12 AM
Way too early. Orton has to show us something when the games really count.

Which one of the first 6 games don't count?

BTW for all the crap alot of yopu clowns gave him after he played poorly to moderately tolerable in the games that didn't matter (pre-season). who the hell are any of you to say he has to prove his worth to you?

errand
10-22-2009, 07:15 AM
Remember Brian Griese

and his early saviour type contract then remember the dead money we had to eat

While i agree we shouldn't just back a Brink's truck up to his home, we do need to find a way to keep him here for a few more seasons.

errand
10-22-2009, 07:19 AM
You know what I find hilarious? The Matt Cassel angle. Hear me out here.

During the offseason, it was Matt Cassel who put the Cutler wheels in motion. And now, it's Matt Cassel who is going to help us re-sign Orton at a reasonable rate.

The way I see it, Cassel has been a flop in KC. Now I know he has no running game, no line, no talent period outside of Bowe. But he was supposed to be a legit QB who could really be the man. They paid big money for him, etc.

This might just be a crackpot theory, but I think people are going to see what McD did with Cassel in NE, and then see what Cassel did in KC w/o him. Vastly different outcomes. I don't think any other team is going to court Orton to be their starter. At all. They're going to assume he's a system guy with limitations, and hell, maybe he is just that.

I'd be in no hurry. I like what he's done so far, but I think Denver has most of the leverage here. I don't see another team offering him hundreds of millions of dollars.

Ok, let's say what you're claiming is true...that Orton is only good in our system...then given his current production in it, wins, yards, TD to INT ratio, etc....why the hell wouldn't you sign him long term?

Who cares if he's a potentially good fit in say, Seattle...we know he's a good fit here...in Denver. So sign him to fair deal and let's keep rolling.

Bronco Boy
10-22-2009, 07:30 AM
McD can obviously turn **** into gold as far as QBs go. Why would he spend that much money to keep Orton when Simms or Brandstater could step in and be just as good next year?

barryr
10-22-2009, 07:37 AM
Meanwhile Cutler fans would be eager to sign Cutler to a long term deal despite not exactly performing well in "games that count" or even getting a team to the playoffs yet. It is very interesting how this works.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-22-2009, 07:58 AM
I would not give him more then 4-5 million a year. Orton is a Game manager that wouldn't be that good in another system. Also he has the best offensive line in football. If he wants more then the Broncos sign David Carr for 2 million . Carr could do just as good as Orton with our offensive line and in our system.

Worst post ever?

Worst post ever.

Carr is terrible. He turtles anytime anyone from the defense comes near him. Shell shock.

ColoradoDarin
10-22-2009, 08:00 AM
Why do you guys worry about what these guys are getting paid? Who cares...:

Because it affects the rest of the team. Bowlen only has a limited amount of $s, and the team has to fit under the Cap (assuming a new CBA).

BroncoInferno
10-22-2009, 08:18 AM
I brought this up in a previous thread a few weeks ago. Many thought Orton would be in the 20-30 range. I thought 35-40. Below is from Mort's chat. He says a Cassel deal. Didn't he get 60 million?


Mort,With how Kyle Orton has played this year, do you think the Broncos are going to give him a long term deal?

Chris Mortensen


Interesting. Orton is making $995,000 in the final year of his deal. No way the Broncos are letting him go, so they can franchise him or they can work on a long-term deal. My guess is he'll get signed to one of those Matt Cassel-type contracts. And good for him.

I've been trying to tell Drek and Alec it will be Cassel type money. And it will be be, whether anybody likes it or not. That's the precedent set.

BroncoInferno
10-22-2009, 08:22 AM
I would not give him more then 4-5 million a year. Orton is a Game manager that wouldn't be that good in another system. Also he has the best offensive line in football. If he wants more then the Broncos sign David Carr for 2 million . Carr could do just as good as Orton with our offensive line and in our system.

You're an idiot. You think David Carr would drive us 98 yards the way Orton did against New England. Man, Orton really is the Rodney Dangerfield of QBs. $4-5 million....please. Hell, Chris Simms gets $3 million a year as a backup! Orton will get close to $10 million a season if he continues to play as he has been, and he will deserve it.

BroncoInferno
10-22-2009, 08:26 AM
According to this site, there is no one on this team that is worth getting paid. Everyone needs an incentive-based contract, or they need to be given a take it or leave it offer. It's hilarious reading posts from people who are absolutely petrified that money that isn't their own, might be mis-spent.

If $60M is the going rate for a QB that's a notch below the elite QBs, then that's what it's going to take to re-sign Orton if that's the direction McDaniels wants to go in.

Exactly. No one on this site ever wants to pay fair market value for anyone. Take less, or leave. Please. Cassel and Delhomme got deals that paid $28 million and $20 million in guaranteed money. Rest assured Orton's deal WILL be in the same neighborhood. Could surpass it depnding on how the season goes.

Dukes
10-22-2009, 08:27 AM
McD can obviously turn **** into gold as far as QBs go. Why would he spend that much money to keep Orton when Simms or Brandstater could step in and be just as good next year?

A system is only as good as the players in it. A key example was Shanny's running game. Would you rather have a TD or Portis type player, or T. Bell and Selvin Young?

Beantown Bronco
10-22-2009, 08:29 AM
If Orton continues to play more or less just as well as he is right now for the rest of the season and doesn't crap the bed in the playoffs, would anyone have trouble with him being paid Cassel-type money?

Drek
10-22-2009, 08:31 AM
McD can obviously turn **** into gold as far as QBs go. Why would he spend that much money to keep Orton when Simms or Brandstater could step in and be just as good next year?

Can he turn **** into gold or does he just have an eye for a particular type of QB talent?

If its the later it doesn't matter how good an eye McDaniels has, there is still only a finite number of people who can do what he asks at a high level.

Cassel isn't a good example, he had a franchise tag with nearly $15M in guaranteed money in his pocket for 2009 as it was. He was negotiating with Kansas City from a position of enormous strength as a result. If a new CBA is no ratified in time for next off-season (which is looking like what will actually happen) Orton can be RFA'ed for peanuts, and no one will give up a 1st and 3rd for him along with more money than we'd be willing to pay.

I'm expecting a 5 or 6 year deal with an AAV in the $8-$9M range and about $15-$20M in guaranteed money.

In fact, I think that is probably the AAV range we see Orton, Doom, and Marshall all fall into. James Harrison's new deal as DPOY was 6 years, $51.25M with $20M guaranteed. Roddy White's deal (the thing that spurred Marshall to want a new contract) was 6 years, $50M with $18M guaranteed. Those are two great comps for what Doom and Marshall will be looking at if they keep playing at a high level.

I don't see that as a bad deal. With the league cap (even in a capped year) at nearly $140M by next season that is only $27M, or 19% of our total cap space, to lock up a productive leader at QB, an elite pass rusher, and an elite game breaking WR. Very doable.

The big question will be Champ. He's looking at a $15M cap number next year or so. He needs to bring that down below $10M, but Nate Clements has an AAV of $10M, and Asante Samuel's deal has an AAV or $9.5M. If Champ would let himself be slotted down in the same $8-$9M range we'd have our big money vets (including DJ) locked up long term. When Clady, Royal, Harris, etc. are looking for new deals we'll be very near the end of Champ's and DJ's high value peaks and will therefore be freeing up more money to extend them with.

My big concern is Pat Bowlen's willingness to lay out some serious real money this off-season so that we can pad the cap hit into the uncapped year and keep even more cap flexibility. This is where a deep playoff push would be a big help, as it will open up many new revenue streams for him to tap into and reduce financial risks.

BroncoInferno
10-22-2009, 08:37 AM
Drek--Freakin' David Garrard got 6 years $60 million with $18 million guaranteed. New CBA or not, Orton is going to get a deal in the $10 million a year range with around $25 million guaranteed, probably a little more. The precedents have been set. Not just Cassel, but guys like Garrard and Bulger.

Drek
10-22-2009, 08:47 AM
Drek--Freakin' David Garrard got 6 years $60 million with $18 million guaranteed. New CBA or not, Orton is going to get a deal in the $10 million a year range with around $25 million guaranteed, probably a little more. The precedents have been set. Not just Cassel, but guys like Garrard and Bulger.

Bulger was looking like an elite QB for three straight years before getting his big fat new deal, complete with two pro bowl selections in three years leading up to his new deal.

David Garrard got his new deal after having a 102 QB rating for a whole season and only throwing 3 picks. If Orton only throws 3 picks all year then sure, that changes the game. But if thats the standard he sets we aren't talking about him as a top 10 QB, we're talking about a top 5 QB.

Also, just because those teams overpaid and now regret those deals doesn't mean they set a high water mark. Jake Delhomme got a new deal this off-seaosn and I can tell you now any agent who brings it up in negotiating for his client will probably get laughed the hell out of the building. Teams won't overpay just because another team was stupid enough to overpay.

The Broncos are in position to have all the leverage as it pertains to 2010. Orton wants to be here, and he's apparently quite the team player. Tom Brady had multiple rings and he took an AAV well below market value for his first big extension with the Pats, which he's still playing under.

Orton will be asked to take a similar $1-$2M hit in AAV "for the team" and I'd be very surprised if he doesn't agree to leave a couple million on the table if it means Marshall, Kuper, etc. are resigned.

ColoradoDarin
10-22-2009, 08:48 AM
Tom Brady took a below market deal to stay with NE and not put too much of a burden on them, I hope Orton does the same for us.

oubronco
10-22-2009, 09:03 AM
Yeah because these games don't count right now...:tinfoilha

I say lock him up. If he blows up with huge numbers down the road it will be a good value.

and if he doesn't then what

RhymesayersDU
10-22-2009, 09:04 AM
Why do you guys worry about what these guys are getting paid? Who cares...:

I would agree with you if we were talking about, say, the NY Yankess. Unlimited funds, no salary cap, so let's bust out the checkbook.


But when signing one player means potentially not signing another, it becomes a pretty interesting discussion.

TailgateNut
10-22-2009, 09:38 AM
You just can't help liking this guy.

What a breath of fresh air after the Cutler Experiment.


Broncos' Orton not concerned about Cutler's new deal
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 10/22/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 10/22/2009 01:35:31 AM MDT


Don't get any ideas.

Just because the Chicago Bears gave Jay Cutler a two-year contract extension worth $30 million doesn't mean the Broncos will initiate in-season discussions on a new deal with quarterback Kyle Orton.

Yes, Orton has outperformed Cutler, the man he was traded for (along with draft picks) during the offseason. And yes, Orton is in the final year of a contract that is paying him a mere $995,000 this year.

And sure, Orton would eventually like a long-term deal that would keep him the Broncos' quarterback until the end of his career. But Orton said the only time he thinks about his contract situation is when people ask him about it.

"Those discussions are for the Broncos or for my agent," Orton



.
said. "I'm not worried about that stuff."

The Bears had little choice but to invest in Cutler because they had already surrendered their future to acquire him. Besides Orton, the Bears also gave the Broncos two first- round draft picks and a third-rounder.

Denver coach Josh McDaniels has been preaching that despite the 6-0 start, nothing yet has been accomplished. Giving a player a new contract six games into the season would be like handing a bounty hunter the reward money before his capture.

McDaniels has also instilled through his handling of the Cutler and Brandon Marshall sagas that no player is bigger than the team. Orton is in the final year of his contract, but so is Elvis Dumervil, who leads the NFL with 10 sacks, as well as starting guards Ben Hamilton and Chris Kuper, tight end Tony Scheffler and Marshall

Rock Chalk
10-22-2009, 09:42 AM
So I decided to look through the teams that I thought would be in the market for a new QB. Here's what I came up with:

Buffalo
Cleveland (Although I think they're tied to either DA or BQ)
Tennessee (Unsure of the Young situation)
Oakland (Same deal w/ Jamarcus)
Washington
Minnesota (If Favre were to retire, even then they may stick with Rosenfels/Jackson)
Carolina
Tampa Bay (Doubtful; they just drafted that one guy)
San Francisco
Seattle (Isn't Hasselbeck always hurt? Maybe not)
St. Louis


Sure, could a GM throw some ridiculous cash Orton's way? Of course. But thinking about it, would Orton really succeed in any of those situations? I don't think so. Actually, maybe Minnesota if Favre retired. They have all the pieces.

I dont think San Fran is looking to replace Shaun Hill. He has been a pretty decent player this year and is still learning.

Hasselbeck is hurt a lot but he has a few more years in the tank.

St. Louis is good at QB and RB and sucks absolutely everywhere else.

To me, on that list, Buffalo and Washington are the two teams that are teh most likely to go after a QB this offseason.

Greybeard
10-22-2009, 09:54 AM
So you think Orton is better then Brady and Rivers. That really scares me when people make Orton out to be an elite Qb.

He never said that. You know, putting words into someone's mouth is really a peeve of mine.

He said Orton outplayed those QBs on those given weeks. Which he did. In addition to the wins, would you like the stats?

But then, tell me: Was either Brady or Rivers an elite QB before either was an elite QB? Think about it . . .

-----

oubronco
10-22-2009, 10:16 AM
Orton is in the final year of his contract, but so is Elvis Dumervil, who leads the NFL with 10 sacks, as well as starting guards Ben Hamilton and Chris Kuper, tight end Tony Scheffler and Marshall

Man the front office have alot of work ahead of them I hope they keep them all

TailgateNut
10-22-2009, 10:23 AM
Man the front office have alot of work ahead of them I hope they keep them all

Time for some creative financing and a lot of "you can be part of a winning team" speaches if you'll work with us.:wiggle:

RhymesayersDU
10-22-2009, 10:31 AM
Time for some creative financing and a lot of "you can be part of a winning team" speaches if you'll work with us.:wiggle:

Circumvent the cap, win SuperBowls, get the glory, get the girls.

Rock Chalk
10-22-2009, 10:59 AM
Carr looked awesome playing in pre season.
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Giants have almost as good of offensive line as the Broncos. I think almost any Nfl quacterback with a great offensive line plus playing in McDaniels system whould do good . The Broncos could of easily be 3-3 right now. The Broncos got lucky in the first game . In the dallas game Orton throw a ball that when right through the defender hands and the Broncos scored a touchdown, That ball could of just as easily been picked off by Dallas and ran the other way for a touchdown.

What you say is true but on the flip side I can say both Dallas and CIncy both got lucky Denver didn't hit wide open big plays which would have put the nail in the coffin early on.

In the New England game orton throw a ball that New England drop in the endzone that could of been picked off in overtime. I think orton is a decent QB and want the Broncos to resign him but he is just a systems QB like Cassel and don't want the Broncos to dump a ton of money on Him. Orton is not winning games for the Broncos our defensive and Offensive line are winning Games for the Broncos.

Orton didn't win games at first, but the last two games Orton has won games. Does his offensive line help him? Absolutely. Just like it helped Cutler last year but you yokels were willing to give Cutler a 100 million.

Orton also is not loosing games that that is why I want the Broncos to keep him until they get a franchise type QB.

We have a franchise QB. His name is Kyle Orton.

And you will be eating your words.

Rock Chalk
10-22-2009, 11:02 AM
That is way to much money to committ to a player like Orton. I really don't want to be stuck like the Rams with Bulger or the Cheifs with Cassel .

A player like Orton huh.

27-12 as a starter. 18-2 in home games, undefeated as a Bronco.

Is now starting to get our complex offensive system, has played much better without the glove on, has the confidence of his coaches and the loyalty of his teammates.

No, that kind of guy isnt worth a hill of beans. Let's start Simms.

Greybeard
10-22-2009, 11:06 AM
A player like Orton huh.

27-12 as a starter. 18-2 in home games, undefeated as a Bronco.

Is now starting to get our complex offensive system, has played much better without the glove on, has the confidence of his coaches and the loyalty of his teammates.

No, that kind of guy isnt worth a hill of beans. Let's start Simms.

REP.

Orton could win the Super Bowl, and some bashers would not give up . . .

-----

baja
10-22-2009, 11:24 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHA

What you say is true but on the flip side I can say both Dallas and CIncy both got lucky Denver didn't hit wide open big plays which would have put the nail in the coffin early on.

Orton didn't win games at first, but the last two games Orton has won games. Does his offensive line help him? Absolutely. Just like it helped Cutler last year but you yokels were willing to give Cutler a 100 million.


<b>We have a franchise QB. His name is Kyle Orton.</b>

And you will be eating your words.


yes it is even after that bad game that is coming.

rastaman
10-22-2009, 12:37 PM
wow. Some people are going waaaaaaaay overboard with the orton love here. Orton will REFUSE to go anywhere else after this season is over. Like wolf said, we can get him at a discount.

That's a double edge sword risk to think you can insult Orton with advertising he can be had for cheap or at a discount rate. Orton may say screw it and go to the team thats offering the most money. Unless he feels respected salary wise he could go to the highest bidder if there any out there. Point is, just offer him a fair competitive contract w/o him believing that he isn't valued and honest.

Key point to remember here is that Orton is the type of QB who can manage the game and win it for you so long as the defense(s) can keep the game(s) CLOSE or within 3 to 12 point margin. So if the Broncos believe they can continue to give Orton a stingy defense, a great Offensive line, a talented group of WR's, and a RBBC system type running attack, then I say go ahead and sign him to a long term deal when the time comes. And meanwhile in over the next 4 years, remain on the look out drafting a QB's that fit the Brady, Cassel, and Orton foot print.

BroncoInferno
10-22-2009, 12:59 PM
Bulger was looking like an elite QB for three straight years before getting his big fat new deal, complete with two pro bowl selections in three years leading up to his new deal.

David Garrard got his new deal after having a 102 QB rating for a whole season and only throwing 3 picks. If Orton only throws 3 picks all year then sure, that changes the game. But if thats the standard he sets we aren't talking about him as a top 10 QB, we're talking about a top 5 QB.

Also, just because those teams overpaid and now regret those deals doesn't mean they set a high water mark. Jake Delhomme got a new deal this off-seaosn and I can tell you now any agent who brings it up in negotiating for his client will probably get laughed the hell out of the building. Teams won't overpay just because another team was stupid enough to overpay.

The Broncos are in position to have all the leverage as it pertains to 2010. Orton wants to be here, and he's apparently quite the team player. Tom Brady had multiple rings and he took an AAV well below market value for his first big extension with the Pats, which he's still playing under.

Orton will be asked to take a similar $1-$2M hit in AAV "for the team" and I'd be very surprised if he doesn't agree to leave a couple million on the table if it means Marshall, Kuper, etc. are resigned.

One thing that is going to increase Orton's value is his play in crunch time. Right now he is the highest rated QB in the 4th quarter, and by a wide margin (142.1 rating; Flacco is second at 116.4). He also has a 119.4 rating in the third. In short, so far he has greatly elevated his game as the stakes have gotten higher. If he is able to maintain that for the season, that will put him a cut above typical game managers like Cassel and Garrard. And you can rest assured that Orton's agents will come to the negotiation table with those numbers in hand. It's one thing to put up solid numbers and limit turnovers; it's another altogether to come through in the clutch. That's something you can't afford to undervalue. McDaniels probably could get success out of someone like Simms or another QB with decent skills. But would that player make the plays in crunch time that often make the difference between a W and an L? That's rare ability and it would be a terrible mistake to undervalue that. I think McD realizes this and will give Orton a fair market value deal, which stands as the Cassel deal.

lex
10-22-2009, 01:06 PM
If Orton continues to play more or less just as well as he is right now for the rest of the season and doesn't crap the bed in the playoffs, would anyone have trouble with him being paid Cassel-type money?

Its good you mention this. Theres a lot of season left. If we make it to the playoffs and you get the sense that Orton isnt the reason we lost or if he isnt a liability, you can answere this question. And only then.

Tombstone RJ
10-22-2009, 01:09 PM
I'd franchise Orton at the end of the year and then work out a long term deal after the new CBA has been hammered out.

That would be great money for Orton and it leaves the Broncos flexible for the future. I just don't see the point of giving Orton a big new contract until this season has played itself out.

BroncoMan4ever
10-22-2009, 01:09 PM
McD can obviously turn **** into gold as far as QBs go. Why would he spend that much money to keep Orton when Simms or Brandstater could step in and be just as good next year?

same reason Brady got paid in NE. i'm not saying Orton is as good as Brady or anything like that, but the reason McDaniels will and should pay the man is the same reasons Brady got paid.

Brady doesn't have the greatest football skills, but he wins games and a lot of them, he is very intelligent, he is a great leader, his teammates follow him no matter the situation.

also, do you really think the McDaniels wants to tutor and coach up another QB all of next offseason? Orton was basically handpicked as the QB that McDaniels wanted in the Cutler trade. many other offers with a lot of other QBs were on the table and McDaniels chose Orton. Plus with as well as he is playing now, he can get better. He is laying the foundation this season on what can become great future seasons.

look at Brady in this system, it wasn't year 1 where he had the most success and had the offense firing on all cylinders, it was after a few seasons that the offense hit its stride.

i think it would be absolutely stupid to throw someone new out there because we don't want to give Orton the money he is worth.

also, hypothetically, if we draft a QB in the 1st round next season, it is going to cost us the same for an unproven rookie as it would to keep a proven veteran winner.

BroncoMan4ever
10-22-2009, 01:19 PM
You're an idiot. You think David Carr would drive us 98 yards the way Orton did against New England. Man, Orton really is the Rodney Dangerfield of QBs. $4-5 million....please. Hell, Chris Simms gets $3 million a year as a backup! Orton will get close to $10 million a season if he continues to play as he has been, and he will deserve it.

how many QBs in the league right now, would be able to take the team on 2 drives of over 90 yards for TDs?

Orton is a hell of a lot better than he gets credit for, and is proving that, but so many still will not see it or give him the respect he deserves.

Greybeard
10-22-2009, 01:23 PM
same reason Brady got paid in NE. i'm not saying Orton is as good as Brady or anything like that, but the reason McDaniels will and should pay the man is the same reasons Brady got paid.

Brady doesn't have the greatest football skills, but he wins games and a lot of them, he is very intelligent, he is a great leader, his teammates follow him no matter the situation.

also, do you really think the McDaniels wants to tutor and coach up another QB all of next offseason? Orton was basically handpicked as the QB that McDaniels wanted in the Cutler trade. many other offers with a lot of other QBs were on the table and McDaniels chose Orton. Plus with as well as he is playing now, he can get better. He is laying the foundation this season on what can become great future seasons.

look at Brady in this system, it wasn't year 1 where he had the most success and had the offense firing on all cylinders, it was after a few seasons that the offense hit its stride.

i think it would be absolutely stupid to throw someone new out there because we don't want to give Orton the money he is worth.

also, hypothetically, if we draft a QB in the 1st round next season, it is going to cost us the same for an unproven rookie as it would to keep a proven veteran winner.


how many QBs in the league right now, would be able to take the team on 2 drives of over 90 yards for TDs?

Orton is a hell of a lot better than he gets credit for, and is proving that, but so many still will not see it or give him the respect he deserves.


+1 and REP.

(Although Orton just might be as good as Brady. Who knows?)

-----

Pick Six
10-22-2009, 01:24 PM
A player like Orton huh.

27-12 as a starter. 18-2 in home games, undefeated as a Bronco.



This needs to be repeated over and over, again. I can't believe there are Broncos fans who STILL don't trust that Orton can win. He has shown more game poise in 6 games than Cutler has in his entire career. Forget about his preseason troubles. THEY. DO. NOT. MATTER.

BroncoMan4ever
10-22-2009, 01:25 PM
That is way to much money to committ to a player like Orton. I really don't want to be stuck like the Rams with Bulger or the Cheifs with Cassel .

a player like Orton?

you mean a guy who is 27-12 as a starter in the NFL, has an 18-2 record at home, is undefeated as a Bronco, has something like a 21-2 TD - INT ratio in the red zone, currently is on pace to throw for almost 4000 yards, 24 TDs and maybe 4 INTs, is a great leader, has the confidence of his teammates and coaches, and is getting better as the season is going on.

yeah we or any other team in the league would be absolutely nuts to want to lock that up long term. you really are making yourself out to be stupid on this thread. first the David Carr assumption and now this. not looking too good.

elsid13
10-22-2009, 01:59 PM
I think it extremely mane like, for posters that were calling for Bradstater after two preseason games are willing to pay Orton franchise type money and make him the QB for the next 5 to 6 years for this team. It a very long season, let see how it plays out before, as Eddie Mac pointed, we give him a restricted free agent offer. I want to see how Orton plays when DC get enough tape on him in this system to start to take away the things he can do with the ball.

Gort
10-22-2009, 02:01 PM
Incentive laden deal, that could be a 60 mil contract, with team and player options for voidable years.

:Broncos:

i'd give him... ONE... MILLION... DOLLARS!

http://usedbooksblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dr-evil.JPG

Gort
10-22-2009, 02:03 PM
REP.

Orton could win the Super Bowl, and some bashers would not give up . . .

-----

clearly, Cutler would have won the same superbowl but scored more points. he has a stronger arm that Elway. did you know that? true story.

Archer81
10-22-2009, 04:12 PM
i'd give him... ONE... MILLION... DOLLARS!

http://usedbooksblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dr-evil.JPG


Ahem...Dr Evil...

Yes? Right right...

One...hundred...million dollars...

http://tinyurl.com/ygt5jjv


:Broncos:

uplink
10-22-2009, 09:40 PM
You know what I find hilarious? The Matt Cassel angle. Hear me out here.

During the offseason, it was Matt Cassel who put the Cutler wheels in motion. And now, it's Matt Cassel who is going to help us re-sign Orton at a reasonable rate.

The way I see it, Cassel has been a flop in KC. Now I know he has no running game, no line, no talent period outside of Bowe. But he was supposed to be a legit QB who could really be the man. They paid big money for him, etc.

This might just be a crackpot theory, but I think people are going to see what McD did with Cassel in NE, and then see what Cassel did in KC w/o him. Vastly different outcomes. I don't think any other team is going to court Orton to be their starter. At all. They're going to assume he's a system guy with limitations, and hell, maybe he is just that.

I'd be in no hurry. I like what he's done so far, but I think Denver has most of the leverage here. I don't see another team offering him hundreds of millions of dollars.

I agree with this take, no matter how well he does this year he will be looked at as a product of the system like the bronco running backs not named Portis were.

Bronco Warrior
10-22-2009, 09:50 PM
Orton isn't a big money QB. The guy could succeed as a NE back up but he needs Josh's teaching and gameplanning and ourline and unsurpassed receivers and a solid backfield to have close to his current success! We could do better with Simms or BrandStater that Orton would away from Denver!

Bronco Warrior
10-22-2009, 09:51 PM
How much did Dilfer get?

Steve Sewell
10-22-2009, 09:56 PM
wow. Some people are going waaaaaaaay overboard with the orton love here. Orton will REFUSE to go anywhere else after this season is over. Like wolf said, we can get him at a discount.

$7-8 mil a year is not a lot to pay for a winning QB.

I also think that Orton will give McD the hometown discount because he knows that this system/staff is perfect for him.

Bronco Warrior
10-22-2009, 09:57 PM
Orton has "Won" 3 games of the 6 with HIS Play, instead of inspite his sloppy passing. He never stepped up like the last three in chicago. The Defense, solid running game and special teams had more to do with the wins than Orton did in Chicago and our first three games. With Josh's tutoring and a gameplan he has blossomed but we need to see it for what it is. He still has limited skills and those will only take us so far. As good as Orton played, with out Royal's returns, we don't have enough offense to beat the Chargers last game..sad but true!

Tombstone RJ
10-22-2009, 10:03 PM
Not sure why some think Orton needs the Broncos more than the Broncos need Orton. If the Broncos make the playoffs this season with him as the starting QB, and if the Broncos manage to win a game or two in the playoffs, then Orton is gonna have options.

Its not like he sucked in Chicago. If anything, dabearz totally blew it with Orton and might come out of this whole trade thing looking like incompitent fools.

That all being said, it would make the most sense for the Broncos to franchise him (he'll get a nice fat raise) and then explore a long term deal after the new CBA is in place.

Steve Sewell
10-22-2009, 10:07 PM
Orton has "Won" 3 games of the 6 with HIS Play, instead of inspite his sloppy passing. He never stepped up like the last three in chicago. The Defense, solid running game and special teams had more to do with the wins than Orton did in Chicago and our first three games. With Josh's tutoring and a gameplan he has blossomed but we need to see it for what it is. He still has limited skills and those will only take us so far. As good as Orton played, with out Royal's returns, we don't have enough offense to beat the Chargers last game..sad but true!

This is one of the more retarded posts that I've seen on this board. Just stop, you obviously don't know a damn thing about football.

Tombstone RJ
10-22-2009, 10:10 PM
Orton has "Won" 3 games of the 6 with HIS Play, instead of inspite his sloppy passing. He never stepped up like the last three in chicago. The Defense, solid running game and special teams had more to do with the wins than Orton did in Chicago and our first three games. With Josh's tutoring and a gameplan he has blossomed but we need to see it for what it is. He still has limited skills and those will only take us so far. As good as Orton played, with out Royal's returns, we don't have enough offense to beat the Chargers last game..sad but true!

Well, Sproles scored one TD for SD by returning a punt. So, your argument that Orton is not the catalyst behind the Broncos offense is not all that solid.

Take away 14 points from Royal and 7 points from Sproles on Special Teams and the score still favors Denver 20 to 16.

Archer81
10-22-2009, 10:16 PM
Well, Sproles scored one TD for SD by returning a punt. So, your argument that Orton is not the catalyst behind the Broncos offense is not all that solid.

Take away 14 points from Royal and 7 points from Sproles on Special Teams and the score still favors Denver 20 to 16.


Yup. Same logic can be applied to Charger fans who say without the two denver returns, SD wins...but if we are playing Kickoff return dissapear magic mumbo jumbo...theirs goes too...leaving a Denver win.

:Broncos:

Archer81
10-22-2009, 10:19 PM
Orton has "Won" 3 games of the 6 with HIS Play, instead of inspite his sloppy passing. He never stepped up like the last three in chicago. The Defense, solid running game and special teams had more to do with the wins than Orton did in Chicago and our first three games. With Josh's tutoring and a gameplan he has blossomed but we need to see it for what it is. He still has limited skills and those will only take us so far. As good as Orton played, with out Royal's returns, we don't have enough offense to beat the Chargers last game..sad but true!


Im amazed you have 176 posts on this board...

Do you know that when you put instead and inspite in the same sentence nearly back to back, it invalidates your point?

You are lucky I am a relatively nice guy...so...

Pay attention and write in shorter sentences...

:Broncos:

ro_50
10-22-2009, 10:56 PM
Valid points has been made for Orton to be locked up and not locked up.

But the thing I will say is it seems like Orton is the type of guy who will not be affected by not having a new deal before the season ends.

That's good to know, even though it will be on his mind, but I think he's more concerned with what happens next week versus the offseason for now.

And how much does a new or not new CBA factor into this?

baja
10-22-2009, 11:06 PM
Orton has "Won" 3 games of the 6 with HIS Play, instead of inspite his sloppy passing. He never stepped up like the last three in chicago. The Defense, solid running game and special teams had more to do with the wins than Orton did in Chicago and our first three games. With Josh's tutoring and a gameplan he has blossomed but we need to see it for what it is. He still has limited skills and those will only take us so far. <b>As good as Orton played, with out Royal's returns, we don't have enough offense to beat the Chargers last game..sad but true!

Not that simple when Royal scored Orton lost a possession and who knows what Orton and the offense would have done with those possessions.

Carmelo15
10-22-2009, 11:33 PM
Orton has "Won" 3 games of the 6 with HIS Play, instead of inspite his sloppy passing. He never stepped up like the last three in chicago. The Defense, solid running game and special teams had more to do with the wins than Orton did in Chicago and our first three games. With Josh's tutoring and a gameplan he has blossomed but we need to see it for what it is. He still has limited skills and those will only take us so far. As good as Orton played, with out Royal's returns, we don't have enough offense to beat the Chargers last game..sad but true!

That's a weak argument. You can't take away our special teams scores without doing the same to San Diego. 34-14=20. 23-7=16. 20-16= Broncos still win!

Merlin
10-22-2009, 11:41 PM
I would not give him more then 4-5 million a year.
Agreed. He is very good at what he does, but he is not worth more than that. The whole point of McD's offense is that he can operate at QB with a skill set at that price. He is Shanny's version of RBs

BroncoMan4ever
10-23-2009, 12:40 AM
Agreed. He is very good at what he does, but he is not worth more than that. The whole point of McD's offense is that he can operate at QB with a skill set at that price. He is Shanny's version of RBs

true to a point. but just like there are few QBs with arms like Favre, there are few QBs that have the necessary intelligence and skill set that McDaniels system requires. we could have gotten, Sanchez(NY was offering their pick which ended up being Sanchez), Stafford(Detroit offered number 1 overall), Jackson from Minnesotta, Quinn or Anderson, and a few others i am surely leaving out, but McDaniels chose Orton. he picked the guy he knew would best fit for his system.

McDaniels hand picked Orton for that reason, he saw him as the type of QB he could make into a great QB. if he believed he could just plug any QB in and be successful, Orton would not be in Denver.

McDaniels would have taken the biggest offer for Cutler and went with Simms as his starter if he believed that his system could make any QB look better than they actually are.

same was true of the old running game of plug in and generate a 1000 yard rusher. it was runners with specific strengths and styles of play that were successful, it wasn't just plug any RB in the league in and he would be great in the system.

also, how many QBs that will be available next offseason in the 4-5 million a year range do you see with comparable a comparable skill set to Orton. any that match his win total, his team first mentality, his leadership?

guys with his wins, team attitude, leadership skills do not hit the open market very often, and when they do, it becomes a frenzy to get him.

Elway777
10-23-2009, 01:10 AM
$7-8 mil a year is not a lot to pay for a winning QB.

I also think that Orton will give McD the hometown discount because he knows that this system/staff is perfect for him. I go as high as 6 million per year instead of 4-5 million. The Broncos need to leave the Door open if a franchise Qb fall to them in the draft like Bradford or Looker. I would do a 3 year 18 million with 9 million signing bonus. I would also add some Bonus money if he leads team to playoffs and another Bonus if he lead team to Superbowl. If Orton plays great for 3 years then Orton could earn a big pay check. If Broncos cann't sign Orton to a reasonable contract then Broncos target Dave Carr in free agency plus trade up in draft to get Bradford ,Looker or Clausen. Orton has played great this year but don't want to over pay someone for one good year.

BroncoMan4ever
10-23-2009, 02:45 AM
I go as high as 6 million per year instead of 4-5 million. The Broncos need to leave the Door open if a franchise Qb fall to them in the draft like Bradford or Looker. I would do a 3 year 18 million with 9 million signing bonus. I would also add some Bonus money if he leads team to playoffs and another Bonus if he lead team to Superbowl. If Orton plays great for 3 years then Orton could earn a big pay check. If Broncos cann't sign Orton to a reasonable contract then Broncos target Dave Carr in free agency plus trade up in draft to get Bradford ,Looker or Clausen. Orton has played great this year but don't want to over pay someone for one good year.

but you would be fine overpaying for a rookie who hasn't even had 1 great NFL pass let alone a great NFL season?

give me a break with that crap. on average, maybe 1 or 2 QBs in any draft ever become franchise QBs. and there is no guarantee that any of the supposed top QBs in next seasons draft are going to be any good. we currently have the option of locking up a guy who is a proven winner in the NFL. and if we do go after a 1st round QB next season, it is going to cost as much for the unproven rookie as it would to keep a young(26 years old) proven NFL winner

also factor in that the rookie will need to be coached up and brought along to get ready for the NFL game and if history is any indicator, it is more likely that rookie would become another Leinart, Quinn, Russell or Leaf instead of the next Peyton Manning, Matt Ryan, Rodgers or Flacco.

Orton is the best option for this team and also the safest option

also, you need to quit with the we can always get David Carr crap. he looked decent in preseason against scrubs and guys who couldn't make a final NFL 53 man roster. and Orton showed us, preseason doesn't mean a damn thing.

Drek
10-23-2009, 04:12 AM
I go as high as 6 million per year instead of 4-5 million. The Broncos need to leave the Door open if a franchise Qb fall to them in the draft like Bradford or Looker. I would do a 3 year 18 million with 9 million signing bonus. I would also add some Bonus money if he leads team to playoffs and another Bonus if he lead team to Superbowl. If Orton plays great for 3 years then Orton could earn a big pay check. If Broncos cann't sign Orton to a reasonable contract then Broncos target Dave Carr in free agency plus trade up in draft to get Bradford ,Looker or Clausen. Orton has played great this year but don't want to over pay someone for one good year.

$6M ix a pathetic AAV for a QB who actually wins football games, FYI. Somewhere in the area of $7-$9M a year is reasonable even if he doesn't play at quite such a high level and trends down to only a 90+ QB rating.

If he actually stays at the same pace he's on right now and finishes the season with less than 5 INTs, more than 25 TDs, and a QB rating at or above 100 along with winning a playoff game he'll get $9-$10M pretty easily.

I expect him to take a hometown discount to stay here. I expect the Broncos to be able to RFA him and negotiate from a position of power as well, because the chances of a new CBA being done seem slim. These two factors will help them avoid overpays like what Cassel, Bulger, etc. got, but they can't low ball him down to 60% of what guys like that are getting paid. They need to come within 80-90% of it.

Also, its Locker, not Looker, and all three of the QBs you mentioned are juniors. Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, and Tim Pike are the best seniors. I think its very likely that at least two of the three from the group you named go back for their senior years.

steeledude
11-09-2009, 09:57 PM
Remember this thread? There is another one about locking up Orton OVER Marshall and Dumervil. This whole thing is hilarious.

Denver724
11-09-2009, 11:01 PM
Funny ****. I started this thread as I was drowning in the Kool Aid. The pump is now dry and the Kool-aid is gone.

BroncoMan4ever
11-09-2009, 11:41 PM
Remember this thread? There is another one about locking up Orton OVER Marshall and Dumervil. This whole thing is hilarious.

honestly i still believe we need to lock up Doom, Kuper, Marshall and then Orton, in that order.

Doom is the most prized FA we have and he is going to start a frenzy with teams bidding for him

Kuper is one of, if not the best young Guard in the game and if we don't wrap him up long term we are screwed. he is a major piece of our line, whoever we bring in to take his place if he is allowed to leave, will be a downgrade.

Marshall is a beast and we need him. he is what makes our passing game work.

Orton is a good QB, but he also probably realizes Denver is his best situation. he knows, he can probably cash in and go somewhere else and be in a sitation like he was in Chicago, or he can stay here and continue on his development with a QB guru like McDaniels. i list him last because i believe he wants to be here and will hold off negotiations with other teams, so that he can return.