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View Full Version : JOHN CLAYTON EATS CROW ON MIKE AND MIKE, FINALLY fesses up to being wrong about us


Boobs McGee
10-20-2009, 11:11 PM
It's ABOUT TIME. Loser.


Interview was on mike and mike this morning...

here's the link:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/show?showId=mikeandmike

(that link takes you to the mike and mike page, link to the interview is down a little on the left)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?id=4579387
(this is the actual link to the feed, bronco's talk starts at about the 2:10 mark...don't know if the direct link is working or not)



Mike Golic - our suprise level here is pretty high, when you look and see that denver is 6 -0...how about you?

John Clayton - Are you kidding ? I get KILLED in Denver. I came out and said they were gonna be 3 and 13. I mean, what an idiot I look like. so it's like uh, ya know, on my mailbag every week, i'm still getting nasty emails from people in denver. so when you go out and ya say 3 and 13 and their 6 and 0, it's like, i don't think there's anybody in the COUNTRY more suprised than I am. and uh, you give credit to josh mcdaniels, you give credit to mike nolan. you give credit to that team. because , ya know, you look at the defense, i mean, eight of those starters are new and most of em are castoffs. and yet, they're playing at the highest level in the NFL. I mean, give credit to denver right now. I mean, At this stage, they're running away with the division.

MG - outscoring their opponents 76-10 in the second half of games. thats just thats just

JC - they're, they're three and a half games up in the division six weeks into the season!

MG - they're doin a fantastic job



Ha!


Welcome to the bandwagon you freakish little man. Let the orange and blue wash over your body.

RhymesayersDU
10-20-2009, 11:12 PM
The OrangeMane: Where we're obsessed with everything the media has to say, all the while claiming that we hate the media!

BroncoBuff
10-20-2009, 11:14 PM
Clayton is a big REM fan ... a friend of mine went backstage with him at a show, and he was start-struck supposedly.

You wouldn't think Clayton would go for that, but hey.

Boobs McGee
10-20-2009, 11:15 PM
The OrangeMane: Where we're obsessed with everything the media has to say, all the while claiming that we hate the media!

lol well, what can i say. I love hearing the experts get shown up.

ZONA
10-20-2009, 11:17 PM
I betcha Baltimore will still be favored and picked by many "experts" to win at home. Just watch.

BroncoDoug
10-20-2009, 11:19 PM
I betcha Baltimore will still be favored and picked by many "experts" to win at home. Just watch.

good!!! i hope so!

Hercules Rockefeller
10-20-2009, 11:22 PM
I betcha Baltimore will still be favored and picked by many "experts" to win at home. Just watch.

They should be

cutthemdown
10-20-2009, 11:42 PM
lol about 20 of those email are from me.

Popps
10-20-2009, 11:51 PM
Clayton fessed up, at least. Better than a lot of the talking heads I've seen who sort of swept their prior statements under the rug and now ride the bandwagon.

Look, I wouldn't begrudge anyone for thinking we had question marks or that we might have a rocky road. But this "we're doomed," 3-13... set back 50 years nonsense was just idiotic.

A lot of people jumped the gun and wouldn't listen to reason. Clayton was just one of many.

Bronco Warrior
10-20-2009, 11:55 PM
John Clayton is the biggest joke of ESPN on a Network of idiots! Notice how he still couln't help taking a shot at our "cast-offs"? Hill and Goodman combined for 9 ints and 195 tackles for a division winner and not sure but I think Philly would like to UnCast Dawkins ever single day! Clayton is a pathetic ass!

azbroncfan
10-20-2009, 11:55 PM
The OrangeMane: Where we're obsessed with everything the media has to say, all the while claiming that we hate the media!

exactly.

lex
10-20-2009, 11:59 PM
John Clayton is the biggest joke of ESPN on a Network of idiots! Notice how he still couln't help taking a shot at our "cast-offs"? Hill and Goodman combined for 9 ints and 195 tackles for a division winner and not sure but I think Philly would like to UnCast Dawkins ever single day! Clayton is a pathetic ass!

He's no different than a lot of people from AFC west areas that have resentment towards the Broncos. Clayton has an axe to grind as does NFLN.

Bronco Warrior
10-21-2009, 12:07 AM
He's no different than a lot of people from AFC west areas that have resentment towards the Broncos. Clayton has an axe to grind as does NFLN.

The NFLN and ESPN has been sucking the Broncos nuts all week, hope McDaniels atleast had them shaved for the event!

BroncoDoug
10-21-2009, 12:19 AM
The NFLN and ESPN has been sucking the Broncos nuts all week, hope McDaniels atleast had them shaved for the event!

yeah, on NFL live tonight on ESPN they spent 20 minutes of the 30 minute show talking all things broncos, orton, McD... Dilfer has actually been a huge Orton supporter all season and he thinks Orton is one of the top QB's in the AFC..

lex
10-21-2009, 12:19 AM
The NFLN and ESPN has been sucking the Broncos nuts all week, hope McDaniels atleast had them shaved for the event!

OK, leading up to last week, what obscure game did NFLN show from 6 years ago? They also like to show the snow game vs the Raiders from 2004 a lot. And then in the past the tone from people like Spiro Dimas would editorialize about Shanahan calling the TO against Janikowski. Its like local california talkshow bitchfests find their way into NFLN's programming.

lex
10-21-2009, 12:20 AM
yeah, on NFL live tonight on ESPN they spent 20 minutes of the 30 minute show talking all things broncos, orton, McD... Dilfer has actually been a huge Orton supporter all season and he thinks Orton is one of the top QB's in the AFC..


I think he (Dilfer) thinks Orton represents guys like Dilfer.

broncocalijohn
10-21-2009, 12:21 AM
The OrangeMane: Where we're obsessed with everything the media has to say, all the while claiming that we hate the media!

maybe it is because the media hates on the Mane's favorite team and have a hard time admitting to be wrong.

Bronco Warrior
10-21-2009, 12:24 AM
The week before they showed the Pats beating us in "Greatest 4th Quarters"..I think it's working out great for us! The need to show the Wild Card game where we got beat so they could end up in the Ravens only SuperBowl!

OBF1
10-21-2009, 12:24 AM
Clayton is still a biotch.

lex
10-21-2009, 12:29 AM
The week before they showed the Pats beating us in "Greatest 4th Quarters"..I think it's working out great for us! The need to show the Wild Card game where we got beat so they could end up in the Ravens only SuperBowl!


See what Im saying? That was Tom Brady's only win against us and it was when Kanell was playing QB. They could have just as easily shown the 2005 playoff game.

It seems like the only Denver game that ever gets replayed (where Denver wins) is the 86 game vs the Browns. I think the week we play KC, NFLN sometimes shows the monday night game with Joe Montana. They could just as easily show the 1997 playoff game at arrowhead that ended with Gordan batting away a pass in the end zone to seal the deal. That game might have been the most meaningful game that Denver and KC has ever played.

Atwater His Ass
10-21-2009, 12:31 AM
So what? Clayton had the same opinion as almost everyone in the country about this team and those opinions were based on solid reasoning. They were just all wrong. I don't see how this is news at all really.

Bronco Warrior
10-21-2009, 12:32 AM
See what Im saying? That was Tom Brady's only win against us and it was when Kanell was playing QB. They could have just as easily shown the 2005 playoff game.

It seems like the only Denver game that ever gets replayed (where Denver wins) is the 86 game vs the Browns. I think the week we play KC, NFLN sometimes shows the monday night game with Joe Montana. They could just as easily show the 1997 playoff game at arrowhead that ended with Gordan batting away a pass in the end zone to seal the deal. That game might have been the most meaningful game that Denver and KC has ever played.

They showed that Montana Elway game a bit on the intro to MNF last night! Even though we lost that ios widely held as the best MNF game ever! I saw it live and in person and it was the bomb!

want2bAbronco2
10-21-2009, 12:33 AM
I think they should be picked to win by 1-2pts...Its at home (they are tough there, and we havent ever played them well) and they usually have a good D. Its not easy to win on the road in the NFL.

Circle Orange
10-21-2009, 12:33 AM
Pinchface is taking it up the tuckus for his dopey @ssed comments. Of course, he wouldn't be the first boob to talk from the wrong end. I can imagine the tone of those emails he got. Said that denver fans were laying into him pretty good. ;D

Boobs McGee
10-21-2009, 12:35 AM
So what? Clayton had the same opinion as almost everyone in the country about this team and those opinions were based on solid reasoning. They were just all wrong. I don't see how this is news at all really.


It's funny to watch these experts have to go back and eat crow. Not truly IMPORTANT news, so much as just happiness that people could be so wrong.

For me, it seemed like he (along with dukes and stink, of all people) was the most glaring representation of everyone's opinion. As a fan, it makes me happy. So, news to me.

I'm not a big face rubber (yes, I've definitely been a little over the top about the fact that Jay's baby ass has been doing poorly), but this is just awesome

BroncoBuff
10-21-2009, 12:38 AM
I dunno about all this anger ... in a way, it's better they downplayed us. More fun that way.

At least he's a man about his mea culpa.

Boobs McGee
10-21-2009, 12:39 AM
haha this isn't anger...just fun.

lex
10-21-2009, 12:39 AM
They showed that Montana Elway game a bit on the intro to MNF last night! Even though we lost that ios widely held as the best MNF game ever! I saw it live and in person and it was the bomb!

The 1988 MN game vs the Bears was pretty awesome too. Elway was in rare form that night. The MN game against the Raiders where Griese had an injured shoulder was pretty awesome as well. We've had a ton of entertaining games and a lot of them on MNF as well. I wouldnt rank that above all others. We beat San Fran in 85 when someone ****ed up SFs FG attempt by throwing a snowball that exploded right next to the place holder as SF was attempting a FG. That ended up being the difference in the game. Id also say the snow game vs GB in 84 was better.

Bronco Warrior
10-21-2009, 12:45 AM
you're gonna put that up against two HOF QB's dueling it out exchanging 4th quarter dramatic TD drives? And did I mention I was there?

Atwater His Ass
10-21-2009, 12:49 AM
It's funny to watch these experts have to go back and eat crow. Not truly IMPORTANT news, so much as just happiness that people could be so wrong.

For me, it seemed like he (along with dukes and stink, of all people) was the most glaring representation of everyone's opinion. As a fan, it makes me happy. So, news to me.

I'm not a big face rubber (yes, I've definitely been a little over the top about the fact that Jay's baby ass has been doing poorly), but this is just awesome

Just goes to show you how hard it is to predict anything in the NFL. It's easy to get sold on "ideas" and "systems", but when you look back on the off-season Denver had and the apparant lack of any kind of defensive line in place, it makes sense to predict how terrible this team would be.

How many teams that a) lost maybe their best player at qb, b) change almost the entire coaching staff, including HC, c) completely change the defensive system, d) bring in a bunch of nobides in FA for the most part, etc etc. It was no surprise nobody thought we'd do anything, so I just don't understand why certain people here want to crucify people for completely valid opinions on our situation as it looked prior to the season.

I still think the play of the DL is the biggest surprise for me. I mean, those guys are all bascially no bodies, has beens, or never was. But they are playing lights out.

I couldn't be more happy that my 4-12 prediciton coulnd't be further from the truth.

lex
10-21-2009, 12:56 AM
you're gonna put that up against two HOF QB's dueling it out exchanging 4th quarter dramatic TD drives? And did I mention I was there?

Yeah, I would. The 1985 games had the same two QBs. The 1997 game was probably the most meaningful game ever played between those two teams.

I think youre just biased because you were at the game youre advocating as the end all- be all.

Boobs McGee
10-21-2009, 01:00 AM
Just goes to show you how hard it is to predict anything in the NFL. It's easy to get sold on "ideas" and "systems", but when you look back on the off-season Denver had and the apparant lack of any kind of defensive line in place, it makes sense to predict how terrible this team would be.

How many teams that a) lost maybe their best player at qb, b) change almost the entire coaching staff, including HC, c) completely change the defensive system, d) bring in a bunch of nobides in FA for the most part, etc etc. It was no surprise nobody thought we'd do anything, so I just don't understand why certain people here want to crucify people for completely valid opinions on our situation as it looked prior to the season.

I still think the play of the DL is the biggest surprise for me. I mean, those guys are all bascially no bodies, has beens, or never was. But they are playing lights out.

I couldn't be more happy that my 4-12 prediciton coulnd't be further from the truth.

Wow, didn't realize this struck such a chord.

Ummm, lemme try to explain here.

Me - homer. Bleed orange and blue. eternal optimist. couldn't have been happier with what happened this offseason. Self admitted limited football knowledge when it comes to x's and o's. Hoped for a 10 and 6 season, and really believed in Josh McDaniels.

Clayton - professional analyst with unlimited resources when it comes to his research.

You put up your bold predictions on national t.v., expect to get laughed at when you're 100% wrong.

I haven't called out ANY BRONCO FANS (except shannon and stink) for their predictions, or their crow eating...because we're all rooting for the same team.

I don't know , nor do I care, if you're referring to me as a "crucifier of people with valid opinions", but believe me when I say it feels FANTASTIC when members of the NATIONAL MEDIA are wrong about our beloved broncos, and you can bet your ass I'm gonna continue to laugh at their inability to get things right with our team.

This wasn't a personal attack on any of our fans, so feel free to move right along if you're getting upset.

Boobs McGee
10-21-2009, 01:03 AM
And p.s. the thing that's MOST hilarious to me, is the finality with which every one of the experts predicted our fail.

Like, there was absolutely NO POSSIBILITY we were going anywhere. That's just redonculous.

That's the big difference, and hopefully you can understand my viewpoint. All of the fans on this board, whether for or against the new regime, had hope that our team would do well. Everyone here wanted us to win, no matter which side of the fence they were on.

The national media couldn't give a rats ass, and made that exceptionally clear.

Atwater His Ass
10-21-2009, 01:06 AM
I wasn't singling you out specifically. I also find it amusing that people care what the mainstream media thinks. I mean, these people get paid to give their opinion, and if they can spin to be a little more dramatic, that only helps the media outlet get more attention.

Only thing I'll disagree with you, is that it was not ridiculous at all to expect this Bronco team to be completely terrible this year based on the off-season and all the changes made.

cutthemdown
10-21-2009, 01:17 AM
Part of what makes being a fan fun is being able to get pissed at the media and fans of other teams.

Rock Chalk
10-21-2009, 01:43 AM
You know why it was absolutely ****ing retarded of people to throw in the towel in the offseason?

We immediately upgraded the entire team by firing Shanahan and getting him to take that worthless piece of **** Bob Slowik with him. It was the only way to get rid of Slowik. That right there gave us 8 wins in the upcoming season. Period. Any competent defensive coordinator would be a MAJOR upgrade over Slowik.

After we hired McDaniels and he signed Dawkins, it was OBVIOUS he knew what the **** he was doing. Our safeties, despite the lamenting of our front seven, was the weakest spot in our defense. Our horrible front 7 did manage to stuff the run 85% of the time last year, but the 15% of the time an RB made a great play, the safeties let them score because they were completely pathetic.

Yeah, we got rid of that over rated QB named Cutler and brought in a game manager but the rest of the offense was completely in tact INCLUDING OUR ALL PRO O-LINE WHICH CAN MAKE ANY QB look good.

It was absolutely and positively completely ridiculous for people to predicting such horrid records for Denver. Media and Bronco fans alike. And those that are still fuming are still retarded. Im not going to name any names, but if I were amongst you all I might point in the general direction of some of the dumbassery that was being spouted around here.

Its like you people have no idea just how bad of a DC Bob Slowik really was.

hambone13
10-21-2009, 02:50 AM
Clayton fessed up, at least. Better than a lot of the talking heads I've seen who sort of swept their prior statements under the rug and now ride the bandwagon.

Look, I wouldn't begrudge anyone for thinking we had question marks or that we might have a rocky road. But this "we're doomed," 3-13... set back 50 years nonsense was just idiotic.

A lot of people jumped the gun and wouldn't listen to reason. Clayton was just one of many.

It baffles me when you decide to appear introspective......blows me away because it's just soo..hmmm....Sybil

hambone13
10-21-2009, 02:54 AM
So what? Clayton had the same opinion as almost everyone in the country about this team and those opinions were based on solid reasoning. They were just all wrong. I don't see how this is news at all really.

I'm so glad someone typed it before I was exhausted by reading and too lazy to post. Thanks. This is......

Gort
10-21-2009, 02:56 AM
So what? Clayton had the same opinion as almost everyone in the country about this team and those opinions were based on solid reasoning. They were just all wrong. I don't see how this is news at all really.

i don't think 3-13 or 4-12 predictions were based on solid reasoning. i think they were based on hysteria. in every aspect except one, we obviously improved the team.

the D had to get better. it couldn't get worse. same with ST. with McD we improved the coaching & preparation of the team. no more no-contact practices under the dome when it was 50 degrees outside!

the only question was whether or not the QB position would be a downgrade or a huge downgrade. the McD/Orton/Bowlen haters thought the downgrade would be huge. i didn't. Orton has a career of winning games. it was obvious that he had intangibles that Cutler didn't. so my thinking was that you don't improve every aspect of your team after going 8-8 the previous year and end up finishing 3-13 or 4-12. that just doesn't make sense and is not based on solid reasoning. it was irrational hysteria and it has been proven wrong.

hambone13
10-21-2009, 03:05 AM
i don't think 3-13 or 4-12 predictions were based on solid reasoning. i think they were based on hysteria. in every aspect except one, we obviously improved the team.

the D had to get better. it couldn't get worse. same with ST. with McD we improved the coaching & preparation of the team. no more no-contact practices under the dome when it was 50 degrees outside!

the only question was whether or not the QB position would be a downgrade or a huge downgrade. the McD/Orton/Bowlen haters thought the downgrade would be huge. i didn't. Orton has a career of winning games. it was obvious that he had intangibles that Cutler didn't. so my thinking was that you don't improve every aspect of your team after going 8-8 the previous year and end up finishing 3-13 or 4-12. that just doesn't make sense and is not based on solid reasoning. it was irrational hysteria and it has been proven wrong.

I'll give you that, you have maintained this position throughout the off season but you were as much in doubt as we were and ended up being right...you're just too reasonable...and btw; I still think Bowlen's not right in the head despite his well executed decision on his new coach.

Gort
10-21-2009, 03:31 AM
I'll give you that, you have maintained this position throughout the off season but you were as much in doubt as we were and ended up being right...you're just too reasonable...and btw; I still think Bowlen's not right in the head despite his well executed decision on his new coach.

you know, i thought i had predicted 10-6, but as i go back and look at my posts, i actually predicted 11-5. so the OM pessimism about the season must have subconsciously gotten through to me and i "mentally" downgraded my prediction before the season started. d'oh!

here's my actual prediction and reasoning. i predicted the CIN, CLE, OAK, NE, and DAL wins. i had us splitting with SD, with each team winning their home game so technically i got that one wrong because of the venue.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2446621&postcount=3

all in all, 11-5 (or better) is looking very realistic now.

hambone13
10-21-2009, 03:44 AM
you know, i thought i had predicted 10-6, but as i go back and look at my posts, i actually predicted 11-5. so the OM pessimism about the season must have subconsciously gotten through to me and i "mentally" downgraded my prediction before the season started. d'oh!

here's my actual prediction and reasoning. i predicted the CIN, CLE, OAK, NE, and DAL wins. i had us splitting with SD, with each team winning their home game so technically i got that one wrong because of the venue.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2446621&postcount=3

all in all, 11-5 (or better) is looking very realistic now.

Well done. I hadn't researched it but knew you were with "the camp of perceivably unreasonable homers" but usually had more intelligent things to say than the typical pooper lover.

I'm not afraid to say when I am wrong, I wear the crow w/ indelible black marker pride. Nice work and thanks for keep'n the dream alive.

55CrushEm
10-21-2009, 05:36 AM
The 1988 MN game vs the Bears was pretty awesome too. Elway was in rare form that night. The MN game against the Raiders where Griese had an injured shoulder was pretty awesome as well. We've had a ton of entertaining games and a lot of them on MNF as well. I wouldnt rank that above all others. We beat San Fran in 85 when someone ****ed up SFs FG attempt by throwing a snowball that exploded right next to the place holder as SF was attempting a FG. That ended up being the difference in the game. Id also say the snow game vs GB in 84 was better.

LOL That's AWESOME !!! I didn't know that! Too funny.

Garcia Bronco
10-21-2009, 06:27 AM
So what? Clayton had the same opinion as almost everyone in the country about this team and those opinions were based on solid reasoning. They were just all wrong. I don't see how this is news at all really.

It wasn't solid reasoning. That's the problem.

alkemical
10-21-2009, 06:29 AM
The OrangeMane: Where we're obsessed with everything the media has to say, all the while claiming that we hate the media!

That's because there are a lot of dumb mother****ers that post here. People are getting dumber, i swear.

dbfan21
10-21-2009, 06:33 AM
John Clayton is the biggest joke of ESPN on a Network of idiots! Notice how he still couln't help taking a shot at our "cast-offs"? Hill and Goodman combined for 9 ints and 195 tackles for a division winner and not sure but I think Philly would like to UnCast Dawkins ever single day! Clayton is a pathetic ass!

The cast off thing is the first thing I thoughtof too! Castoffs? Davis, Dawkins, Hill, Goodman...castoffs? No, John, they're called free agents! Fields is the only guy I could admit to be called a castoff and he's doing pretty damn good right now!

cutthemdown
10-21-2009, 07:23 AM
How about replaying the one where Derrick Thomas melts down and we blow them out.

TailgateNut
10-21-2009, 07:31 AM
So what? Clayton had the same opinion as almost everyone in the country about this team and those opinions were based on solid reasoning. They were just all wrong. I don't see how this is news at all really.


THEY??? Glass houses, eh?Hilarious!

BroncoInferno
10-21-2009, 07:40 AM
It wasn't solid reasoning. That's the problem.

Exactly. It was all based on "Oh noess!111!!!11 We traded our franchise QB orton suckzzzz!!!111111"

But, a balanced and truly reasonable look would have shown that we had improved in every other area, from the coaching staff to personnel. We got rid of the dead weight on defense and, while Dawkins was the only All-Pro we brought in, we signed guys like Goodman and Hill who we both very good on a playoff team last season and Davis has been a solid starter for years. We also brought in quality role players like Gaffney and Holliday. We also improved ourselves through the draft.

Look, we went 8-8 with one of the worse defenses I've ever seen. Why people thought the D wouldn't be greatly improved (by 'greatly improved' I mean middle of the pack...no one thought they would be this good I'll grant) and that the drop-off from Orton to Cutler was so great as to lead to 4-12 or 13-3 baffles me and still strikes me as unreasonable. We CLEARLY improved everywhere else. If fact, to this point our QB play has improved as well.

fdf
10-21-2009, 08:05 AM
it wasn't solid reasoning. That's the problem.

qft

kamakazi_kal
10-21-2009, 08:19 AM
"Division race: Over.

My doubts about the Broncos: Over.

The Broncos and McDaniels are proving to many people, me included, that we have no idea what to expect each and every NFL season. Anybody outside the Rocky Mountain region not named McDaniels who thought this would be a playoff team is lying worse than that balloon fool."

Drek
10-21-2009, 08:20 AM
So what? Clayton had the same opinion as almost everyone in the country about this team and those opinions were based on solid reasoning. They were just all wrong. I don't see how this is news at all really.

It wasn't solid reasoning. It was a large group of people buying into the myopic star ****er bull**** that ESPN and company sell on a daily basis.

A lot of people sold a myth that Jay Cutler was the best player on our team (he wasn't), that teams are screwed without cannon armed stereotypical "franchise" QBs like Cutler behind center, and that all of our off-season moves where ****.

People who actually payed attention to the football moves we where making? They saw a lot of positive signs.

I've outlined them on here before. I outlined why they where good moves as they happened in fact.

Even I'm surprised by a 6-0 start, but I was expecting 9-7 +/-1 game. Not hoping for it, expecting it.

"Division race: Over.

My doubts about the Broncos: Over.

The Broncos and McDaniels are proving to many people, me included, that we have no idea what to expect each and every NFL season. Anybody outside the Rocky Mountain region not named McDaniels who thought this would be a playoff team is lying worse than that balloon fool."

I live in St. Louis and grew up in Maine. I thought we had a very legitimate chance at the division. I said as much on here in advance. So whomever that is a quote from should ask why they suck at their job (assuming they're a pro football analyst).

TailgateNut
10-21-2009, 08:20 AM
Just goes to show you how hard it is to predict anything in the NFL. .

Is this why so many of you were SURE that we were going to suck?

Garcia Bronco
10-21-2009, 08:21 AM
Exactly. It was all based on "Oh noess!111!!!11 We traded our franchise QB orton suckzzzz!!!111111"

But, a balanced and truly reasonable look would have shown that we had improved in every other area, from the coaching staff to personnel. We got rid of the dead weight on defense and, while Dawkins was the only All-Pro we brought in, we signed guys like Goodman and Hill who we both very good on a playoff team last season and Davis has been a solid starter for years. We also brought in quality role players like Gaffney and Holliday. We also improved ourselves through the draft.

Look, we went 8-8 with one of the worse defenses I've ever seen. Why people thought the D wouldn't be greatly improved (by 'greatly improved' I mean middle of the pack...no one thought they would be this good I'll grant) and that the drop-off from Orton to Cutler was so great as to lead to 4-12 or 13-3 baffles me and still strikes me as unreasonable. We CLEARLY improved everywhere else. If fact, to this point our QB play has improved as well.

Nor did they exam the rest of the division when comparing us. At the very worst they should have had us as number 2 in the division. Nor did they consider Ortons ability to win football games.

MVP-06
10-21-2009, 08:29 AM
I have never listened to a word that pencil **** has ever said

Rohirrim
10-21-2009, 08:33 AM
Exactly. It was all based on "Oh noess!111!!!11 We traded our franchise QB orton suckzzzz!!!111111"

But, a balanced and truly reasonable look would have shown that we had improved in every other area, from the coaching staff to personnel. We got rid of the dead weight on defense and, while Dawkins was the only All-Pro we brought in, we signed guys like Goodman and Hill who we both very good on a playoff team last season and Davis has been a solid starter for years. We also brought in quality role players like Gaffney and Holliday. We also improved ourselves through the draft.

Look, we went 8-8 with one of the worse defenses I've ever seen. Why people thought the D wouldn't be greatly improved (by 'greatly improved' I mean middle of the pack...no one thought they would be this good I'll grant) and that the drop-off from Orton to Cutler was so great as to lead to 4-12 or 13-3 baffles me and still strikes me as unreasonable. We CLEARLY improved everywhere else. If fact, to this point our QB play has improved as well.

Except that a lot of teams made big changes that didn't work. In fact, I would bet the statistics show that the majority of these types of radical team upheavals don't work. Nobody knows until the first ball of the first game is snapped. Nobody. It's easy to sit back and start crowing now, but there were plenty on here who wanted Spags and Ryan instead of McD and a lot of people who looked at Nolan's record in SF and said, "No thanks." Who knows? It's a combination of ownership and decisions made and luck. Nobody in the league would have thought that Holliday, Goodman, Davis and even Hawkins would be the players they have become here, in this system, with this coaching. We hit the jackpot. We should have a little humility in the face of such good fortune, IMO. We could have just as easily ended up like the Browns or the Rams. The truth is, nobody knew what was going to happen until it happened. Not even Josh and Nolan.

bowtown
10-21-2009, 08:54 AM
And at the end of the day, he will still continue to snub all Broncos in HOF voting, in favor of Michael Irvin and Troy Aikman.

Pretty sure he casts all of his votes for Michael Irvin and Troy Aikman every year, even though they are both already in.

BroncoInferno
10-21-2009, 08:54 AM
Except that a lot of teams made big changes that didn't work. In fact, I would bet the statistics show that the majority of these types of radical team upheavals don't work. Nobody knows until the first ball of the first game is snapped. Nobody. It's easy to sit back and start crowing now, but there were plenty on here who wanted Spags and Ryan instead of McD and a lot of people who looked at Nolan's record in SF and said, "No thanks." Who knows? It's a combination of ownership and decisions made and luck. Nobody in the league would have thought that Holliday, Goodman, Davis and even Hawkins would be the players they have become here, in this system, with this coaching. We hit the jackpot. We should have a little humility in the face of such good fortune, IMO. We could have just as easily ended up like the Browns or the Rams. The truth is, nobody knew what was going to happen until it happened. Not even Josh and Nolan.

Any person looking at this from a reasoned perspective should have known we were better than a 3-13 or 4-12 team. Middle of the pack team at 7-9 or 8-8? Sure. Enough question marks to justify that. But 3-13 was just plain ol' sky is falling anti-homerism.

Tombstone RJ
10-21-2009, 08:56 AM
I really don't understand all the hate on Clayton. He was one of the few ESPN analysts that gave Denver props on a regular basis during the Shanny tenure.

I mean really people, give the guy a break. So what if he thought this team would stink, a lot of people in the media did.

I like Clayton, he's as unbiased as it's gonna get at ESPN.

Rohirrim
10-21-2009, 08:58 AM
Any person looking at this from a reasoned perspective should have known we were better than a 3-13 or 4-12 team. Middle of the pack team at 7-9 or 8-8? Sure. Enough question marks to justify that. But 3-13 was just plain ol' sky is falling anti-homerism.

I thought 4 and 12 in the preseason. After the collapse of last season, a bottom feeder defense, loss of the starting QB, complete reshuffling of the FO including the head coach, and looking at the schedule, it seemed to me a reasonable conclusion. I liked the changes but expected a couple of years of "rebuilding mode." I applaud all those Svengalis who "knew" otherwise. This is not to stick up for that little Martian, Clayton, but I think a lot of people around here have suddenly developed after-the-fact clairvoyance.

bowtown
10-21-2009, 09:00 AM
I really don't understand all the hate on Clayton. He was one of the few ESPN analysts that gave Denver props on a regular basis during the Shanny tenure.

I mean really people, give the guy a break. So what if he thought this team would stink, a lot of people in the media did.

I like Clayton, he's as unbiased as it's gonna get at ESPN.

The biggest problem with Clayton is that he has a huge hard on for WRs and he too often ignores other positions on the field. I'm not saying that others aren't just as bad, because they are, but to predict that a team that has a top 5 O-Line headed into the season is going to only win 3 games is naive. A 6-0 prediction would have been just as crazy, but too often people underestimate what a difference an OLine makes, even if the rest of the team is garbage.

Bronco Warrior
10-21-2009, 09:14 AM
Clayton is an AssClown that couldn't call a one horse race! And a 6-0 coulda been seen coming for those that bothered to look. I had us going 10-6 minimum with first trip up game being the one last week at SD. Damn do I look stupid!!

BroncoInferno
10-21-2009, 09:38 AM
I thought 4 and 12 in the preseason. After the collapse of last season, a bottom feeder defense, loss of the starting QB, complete reshuffling of the FO including the head coach, and looking at the schedule, it seemed to me a reasonable conclusion. I liked the changes but expected a couple of years of "rebuilding mode." I applaud all those Svengalis who "knew" otherwise. This is not to stick up for that little Martian, Clayton, but I think a lot of people around here have suddenly developed after-the-fact clairvoyance.

It wasn't clairvoyance, just a reasoned assessment that took every factor into account. Yes, we had a bottom feeder D, but we dumped the DC largely responsible for that and replaced him Nolan who has a long and proven track record as a DC. That alone was going to improve us. Then, we dropped the dead weight on D and replaced them with proven, solid (if unspectacular) vets like Dawkins, Hill, Goodman, and Davis. That's not to say anyone expected the D to be this good. Anyone who claims that is lying. But improvement should have been expected (it could not have possibly gotten worse). And on offense, we returned everyone sans Cutler. A close look at Orton and the situation he was in should have lead reasonable people to conclude that he didn't suck. A downgrade? Sure. But with the OL and receivers we already had in place, plus the revamped backfield led by Moreno, it should not have been hard to conclude that he could improve on the decent 18 TD 12 INT performance he had last season playing behind a bad OL, mediocre running game (24th in the league), poor WRs, and archaic offensive system. As far as the upheaval goes, three teams had great turn rounds last season after similar upheavals...Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore. In short, there was plenty to indicate that we would be better than 3-13 or 4-12, sorry. Evidence that we would be this good? No. But any reasonable analysis should have pegged us as at least a middle of the road squad.

Rohirrim
10-21-2009, 09:46 AM
It wasn't clairvoyance, just a reasoned assessment that took every factor into account. Yes, we had a bottom feeder D, but we dumped the DC largely responsible for that and replaced him Nolan who has a long and proven track record as a DC. That alone was going to improve us. Then, we dropped the dead weight on D and replaced them with proven, solid (if unspectacular) vets like Dawkins, Hill, Goodman, and Davis. That's not to say anyone expected the D to be this good. Anyone who claims that is lying. But improvement should have been expected (it could not have possibly gotten worse). And on offense, we returned everyone sans Cutler. A close look at Orton and the situation he was in should have lead reasonable people to conclude that he didn't suck. A downgrade? Sure. But with the OL and receivers we already had in place, plus the revamped backfield led by Moreno, it should not have been hard to conclude that he could improve on the decent 18 TD 12 INT performance he had last season playing behind a bad OL, mediocre running game (24th in the league), poor WRs, and archaic offensive system. As far as the upheaval goes, three teams had great turn rounds last season after similar upheavals...Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore. In short, there was plenty to indicate that we would be better than 3-13 or 4-12, sorry. Evidence that we would be this good? No. But any reasonable analysis should have pegged us as at least a middle of the road squad.

Maybe I just had a hangover from that ass-kicking the Raiders delivered in our own house last season coupled with that closing disaster of the SD game. Put me in a very sour mood regarding this team. ;D

Now, the clouds have parted and I'm getting some of that sunshine on my face. :sunshine:

Gort
10-21-2009, 10:21 AM
"Division race: Over.

My doubts about the Broncos: Over.

The Broncos and McDaniels are proving to many people, me included, that we have no idea what to expect each and every NFL season. Anybody outside the Rocky Mountain region not named McDaniels who thought this would be a playoff team is lying worse than that balloon fool."

i posted that they'd go 11-5 and make the playoffs back in June. how am i a liar? i'm no homer either... i just don't believe all the nonsense about teams needing 3 or 4 years to adopt new systems. plenty of teams go from bad to good quickly. i thought we would go from mediocre to good quickly.

broncocalijohn
10-21-2009, 12:11 PM
THEY??? Glass houses, eh?Hilarious!

I cannot believe I forgot about Atwater his A$$ during the offseason just like a few of our doomsday crowd. Was he hiding out? He of little faith is now back typing away acting like everyone was in his circle. Sure, those here were luckily in the minority and the "experts".

BroncoBuff
10-21-2009, 01:13 PM
Is this why so many of you were SURE that we were going to suck?

That's not entirely fair ... when you look past all the whining, crying, hostile angry nonsense this offseason, the consensus predictions from "both sides' were about the same: between 6 and 9 wins.

Very few people were "sure" we were gonna suck.

broncocalijohn
10-21-2009, 01:24 PM
That's not entirely fair ... when you look past all the whining, crying, hostile angry nonsense this offseason, the consensus predictions from "both sides' were about the same: between 6 and 9 wins.

Very few people were "sure" we were gonna suck.

difference is that we also thought we were going to be an improvement as a team. I had us 8-8 and homer glasses at 9-7 tops. But i also stated that the direction we would be going is up for the future. 24-24 over THREE seasons is a time to panic. We are all getting a bonus but it was the doomsday crowd that had the sky falling before one pass was thrown. I mentioned Attwater his A$$ because of a comment he gave me and thought was he still mad at being so wrong. I keep the bagging on you, Lex and a few others to a total minimum now unless it is warranted for that thread. Some dont even show their face here because admitting they are wrong takes too much character than coming back and taking some heat.

bowtown
10-21-2009, 01:37 PM
Some dont even show their face here because admitting they are wrong takes too much character than coming back and taking some heat.

I wish Bob felt this way. :unamused:

Peoples Champ
10-21-2009, 02:29 PM
That's not entirely fair ... when you look past all the whining, crying, hostile angry nonsense this offseason, the consensus predictions from "both sides' were about the same: between 6 and 9 wins.

Very few people were "sure" we were gonna suck.

Ya , I had us at 8-8. Not many people I know on the mane said 3-13 like Mr. Clayton.

baja
10-21-2009, 03:12 PM
See what Im saying? That was Tom Brady's only win against us and it was when Kanell was playing QB. They could have just as easily shown the 2005 playoff game.

It seems like the only Denver game that ever gets replayed (where Denver wins) is the 86 game vs the Browns. I think the week we play KC, NFLN sometimes shows the monday night game with Joe Montana. They could just as easily show the 1997 playoff game at arrowhead that ended with Gordan batting away a pass in the end zone to seal the deal. That game might have been the most meaningful game that Denver and KC has ever played.

It was the game that started the epic fail of that KC franchise that lasts to this day.

rmsanger
10-21-2009, 03:42 PM
Isn't it ironic that it took 6 games and a win over SD on Monday night to finally get some cred... I mean it's almost like they didn't watch the other 5 games and only mailed in their comments about us beating team blah blah because they had an off week.

Wonder if these guys actually put any "work" to prep for what they write/speak about.

broncogary
10-21-2009, 04:28 PM
Nor did they exam the rest of the division when comparing us. At the very worst they should have had us as number 2 in the division. Nor did they consider Ortons ability to win football games.

Yeah, but the Chiefs had just traded for Cassel and the Raiders didn't trade their "franchise quarterback." Ha!

Bronx33
10-21-2009, 04:30 PM
Clayton is still a level 9 drawf with healing powers in WOW.

Circle Orange
10-21-2009, 08:34 PM
I have never listened to a word that pencil **** has ever said

In the words of Classy Freddie Blasche, "pencil necked geek." ;D

Circle Orange
10-21-2009, 08:37 PM
And at the end of the day, he will still continue to snub all Broncos in HOF voting, in favor of Michael Irvin and Troy Aikman.

Pretty sure he casts all of his votes for Michael Irvin and Troy Aikman every year, even though they are both already in.

Troy Aikman luvs Pam Ward...it's the best kept secret in NFL circles. That's why she does sideline reporting while he's up in the booth.

And Troy, baby...stop changing hair color. from platinum to honey blonde, and now light brown? Let Pam pick a color for you.

(Just don't ask the wifey.) ROFL!