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View Full Version : We're first in scoring defense, but did you see who's second?


Kaylore
10-20-2009, 10:38 AM
Larry Coyer's Colts.

Carry on. ;)

TonyR
10-20-2009, 10:40 AM
Does anyone know how Shanny lost his mojo?

OABB
10-20-2009, 10:42 AM
Larry Coyer's Colts.

Carry on. ;)

Unfortunately for them, the season is 16 games long.

bronco militia
10-20-2009, 10:45 AM
Larry Coyer's Colts.

Carry on. ;)

I'm sure it's a lot easier to play defense when your QB can **** 300 yards before the 1st snap

broncocalijohn
10-20-2009, 10:47 AM
Coyer was one of our better DC that we had under Shanny. He tossed them out like old clothes trying to get someone to be the culprit. I remember when we started 3 and 0 a few years back (AFC Championship year?) and players seemed to enjoy his game plan and enthusiasm especially for a "59 year old white guy." I think he is part of the reason they are 2nd in scoring defense.

TheDave
10-20-2009, 10:48 AM
they've only played 5 games...

chex
10-20-2009, 10:51 AM
The thing that bugged me about Coyer is the thing we love about Nolan - halftime adjustments. Coyer never adjusted at the half. If his original gameplan was working, great; if not, he'd die with it.

OABB
10-20-2009, 10:53 AM
The thing that bugged me about Coyer is the thing we love about Nolan - halftime adjustments. Coyer never adjusted at the half. If his original gameplan was working, great; if not, he'd die with it.

second half of games and of seasons. the colts will be destroyed the last few weeks when a)they play a good team and b)when teams get a hold of coyers film.

Kaylore
10-20-2009, 10:56 AM
I'm seeing a lot of the same things that have been said about our team.

OABB
10-20-2009, 10:57 AM
I'm seeing a lot of the same things that have been said about our team.

when we had Coyer? or now?

Kaylore
10-20-2009, 10:58 AM
Now. "They will fold." "Let's see them play a full season and then we'll know." "They need to play a good team."

Short memories on the mane.

baja
10-20-2009, 11:00 AM
I keep reading about half time adjustment but what I see is they are adjusting with ever change of possession not just at the half.

TheDave
10-20-2009, 11:02 AM
I'm seeing a lot of the same things that have been said about our team.

Larry coyer is a hell of a D coordinator. I'm not taking anything away from them.

But at this point they haven't even played a team with a winning record.

Having said that I'm still scared of paying Peyton.

Eldorado
10-20-2009, 11:02 AM
they've only played 5 games...

It's points per game.

RunSilentRunDeep
10-20-2009, 11:02 AM
Larry Coyer was not responsible for the collapse. Injuries and an offense that couldn't stay on the field for more than two minutes at a time brought that D down. He'll do great with the Colts and I'm happy for him.

Man-Goblin
10-20-2009, 11:03 AM
I'll be the first to admit that I didn't like him when he was here, but looking back, you almost have to say he was the best d-coordinator Shanahan had (maybe Robinson for a couple years).

Unfairly ousted because the team wasn't good enough to avoid having to go to that dome and play the Colts when they were an offensive machine. How ironic that Coyer is now the d-coordinator of the Colts. Doncha think?

chex
10-20-2009, 11:07 AM
I'm seeing a lot of the same things that have been said about our team.

With Coyer, it's been proven though.

I think it was Stokley himself when he was with the Colts that said it. After the Colts basically let us beat them at home the last game of '04 to clinch a playoff spot and play them the following week in Indy, we got crushed and Stokley commented that he and the Colts couldn't believe how Coyer threw the same exact defense as the week before. They put up 35 on us by halftime.

I also point to the playoff game with the Steelers as another example.

OABB
10-20-2009, 11:08 AM
Now. "They will fold." "Let's see them play a full season and then we'll know." "They need to play a good team."

Short memories on the mane.

I have never been one of those types of people. I usually look at patterns before I say anything.

also, I never got down on the broncs. I picked us to go 9-7 and loved the trade and mcd....

with that said.

Coyer never did adjust. I liked him, but he never did. He uses his dline to hold up the oline from getting to the lb's. It's a good strategy, and is very lb friendly, but eventually, d linemen need to generate pressure. When your first read is to hold up rather than beat, it will only be a matter of time before a qb can sit back and pick them apart.

OABB
10-20-2009, 11:11 AM
With Coyer, it's been proven though.

I think it was Stokley himself when he was with the Colts that said it. After the Colts basically let us beat them at home the last game of '04 to clinch a playoff spot and play them the following week in Indy, we got crushed and Stokley commented that he and the Colts couldn't believe how Coyer threw the same exact defense as the week before. They put up 35 on us by halftime.

I also point to the playoff game with the Steelers as another example.

exactly.

the Coyer love here is more a statement of how bad the other dcoords were rather than a statement about him.

now we have a real dcoord, and it is really really nice to watch.

55CrushEm
10-20-2009, 11:12 AM
The thing that bugged me about Coyer is the thing we love about Nolan - halftime adjustments. Coyer never adjusted at the half. If his original gameplan was working, great; if not, he'd die with it.

Exactly......I remember we just wouldn't change anything up in the 2nd half under Coyer.

DeuceOfClub
10-20-2009, 11:37 AM
I'm keeping an eye on them all season, Coyer sure does a good job. And it defiantly helps when both your defense and the other team offense know thay have to score ~25 point to win the game.

They had one great Defensive game (Cardinals) and one horrible (Dolphins) other 3 games are in between.
They are built right for the team, with no names or stars behind the lines, but good to very good pass-rusher that benefit from playing with the lead.





Kaylore, Did you noticed who is 29th (27th yardage) in scoring defense?


None other than the guy who succeeded (/failed) Coyer and his Buccaneers. Bates defense is just horrible, last two weeks was a little better (Vs Redskins / Panthers) but it does not look good.
I think they lead the league giving up big-plays of over 40 and 20.

Living in the area, I keep hearing the local experts claiming he is a great coach but the personal doesn't fit his scheme (Now, where did I hear that before?) But you wouldn't expect Tampa that had a top 10 defense in like forever to play so poorly.



I looks more and more as if that 2006-2007 fire/hire of the D-cord' was a big mistake.

HEAV
10-20-2009, 11:51 AM
I'll take the 3-4 over the 4-3 any day. Hated the 4-3 for year... even with the Super Bowl wins.

I'm so happy to be a 3-4 team again.

gyldenlove
10-20-2009, 12:03 PM
Unfortunately for them, the season is 16 games long.

With the Rams, 49ers and the rest of their memory foam soft schedule they will end up in the top 5, no problem at all.

The Colts have only played 1 winning team so far (Arizona) and will over the remaining 11 games only play 2 teams who currently hold a winning record, the Patriots and Broncos. The last time anyone had anything as soft was when TheRev stage dived into a Broncos cheerleader pillowfight.

BroncoBuff
10-20-2009, 12:08 PM
Meanwhile, Jeremy Bates' USC Trojans are cranking up almost 500 yards offense per game.

HEAV
10-20-2009, 12:20 PM
Meanwhile, Jeremy Bates' USC Trojans are cranking up almost 500 yards offense per game.

So Fck'n what!

A It's College Football

B This thread is about defense

C This team is 6-0 with McDaniels running the show! It's over Buff, Shanny is gone, the past it's the past...

bronco militia
10-20-2009, 12:22 PM
you know, Larry Coyer and his family seem like very nice people. But most of us never had the pleasure to meet them. Maybe that makes it easier for some of us to say we are glad that he's no longer coaching in Denver anymore.

BroncoBuff
10-20-2009, 01:17 PM
So Fck'n what!

A It's College Football

B This thread is about defense

C This team is 6-0 with McDaniels running the show! It's over Buff, Shanny is gone, the past it's the past...

You really missed the point of this thread, not to mention my post :-(

HEAV
10-20-2009, 01:22 PM
You really missed the point of this thread, not to mention my post :-(

Well if you would get off the fence then maybe people would know where you stand!

fontaine
10-20-2009, 01:46 PM
Coyer did a fantastic job in Denver with the talent he had and he's doing it once again for the Colts considering how many injuries they've had.

Some people can't think past yesterday. A couple of seasons back when Bob Sanders went down the Colts entire defense crumbled. This year, he's been injured and the D is still getting done.

Just like how people forget that it was under Coyer that Dumervil was drafted. I don't know who exactly hand picked him but it sure wasn't a Shanahan type pick. Coyer actually said that Dumervil was good enough to be a Joey Porter type as a tweener only after his rookie season.

We got masterBates next year and guess who was picked for his defense? That's right, Jarvis Moss.

DenverBrit
10-20-2009, 01:53 PM
I liked Coyer and I'm glad to see he landed a nice gig with the Colts.

But as others have mentioned....... his 2nd half adjustments?? :(

HEAV
10-20-2009, 01:54 PM
that's sad, dude ... you completely mistook what I was saying. This thread is about successful former coordinators. I didnt start it-Buff via Rep-feed back.

This thread is about Coyer/Colts/Broncos defense. Amaz'n how insane you are Buff.

BroncoBuff
10-20-2009, 01:55 PM
Well if you would get off the fence then maybe people would know where you stand!
I cannot think of a cogent response to this ambiguous at best suggestion.

How about I ask you this: Why are you so angered about what I think? Whether I'm on a fence, in a ditch, or in a cloud? Where does this anger come from?


And btw, this thread was largely about former Broncos coordinators who've found success elsewhere. Can't imagine how my mentioning Jeremy Bates threatens you so much ???

HEAV
10-20-2009, 02:01 PM
Still the Dolphins owned the clock against that Defense back in week two. 45 Minutes on the field for the defense. Miami would have won that game had their defense just tackled better.

Just have to wait and see with the Colts defense.

HEAV
10-20-2009, 02:03 PM
I cannot think of a cogent response to this ambiguous at best suggestion.

How about I ask you this: Why are you so angered about what I think? Whether I'm on a fence, in a ditch, or in a cloud? Where does this anger come from?


And btw, this thread was largely about former Broncos coordinators who've found success elsewhere. Can't imagine how my mentioning Jeremy Bates threatens you so much ???


<a href='http://img30.imageshack.us/i/crowf.jpg/'><img src='http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5330/crowf.jpg' border='0' alt='Image Hosted by ImageShack.us'/></a><br/>

Rock Chalk
10-20-2009, 02:04 PM
Meanwhile, Jeremy Bates' USC Trojans are cranking up almost 500 yards offense per game.

Right because Pete Carroll and the bevy of high level recruits that go there have nothing to do with that.

Bates isn't a ****ing genius, he sucks. So he's throwing up 500 yards a game in USC when they were throwing up 500 yards a game before he got there.
Someone gave him the keys to a Ferrari and he didn't wreck it.

BroncoBuff
10-20-2009, 02:23 PM
Bates isn't a ****ing genius, he sucks.

LOL ... that's kinda true.

I have a couple good friends that are USC fans (imagine that), and they really hate Jeremy Bates. Of course it doesn't help that Bates' predecessor Steve Sarkisian just kicked the Trojans butt with the Washington Huskies who were 0-12 last year :~ohyah!:

bpc
10-20-2009, 03:37 PM
Congrats to Larry Coyer. He's always been a class act. He deserves this success and i'm sure, he's TRULY happy to have #18 on his side now.

doonwise
10-20-2009, 10:55 PM
Larry coyer is a hell of a D coordinator. I'm not taking anything away from them.

But at this point they haven't even played a team with a winning record.

Having said that I'm still scared of playing Peyton.

McDaniels Isn't.:wiggle:

Kaylore
10-20-2009, 11:23 PM
I started this thread just to point out that firing Coyer was a mistake and probably will be chronicled as the beginning of the end for Shanahan in Denver. It wasn't intended as a "former coordinators" thread, though it became that when one referenced Jim Bates.

Coyer was a great coordinator that never had anyone with a clue on how to identify personnel on defense and poured syrup on crap and made pancakes. Several here accused him of being the problem when it's clear he never was as his defenses were the best in Shanahan's tenure here with arguably the worst front line.

And I'm not impressed with the Trojan's offense. They are no different than they were last year and I don't see how Bates has added anything to an already talented team.

HEAV
10-21-2009, 08:19 AM
I started this thread just to point out that firing Coyer was a mistake and probably will be chronicled as the beginning of the end for Shanahan in Denver. It wasn't intended as a "former coordinators" thread, though it became that when one referenced Jim Bates.

Coyer was a great coordinator that never had anyone with a clue on how to identify personnel on defense and poured syrup on crap and made pancakes. Several here accused him of being the problem when it's clear he never was as his defenses were the best in Shanahan's tenure here with arguably the worst front line.

And I'm not impressed with the Trojan's offense. They are no different than they were last year and I don't see how Bates has added anything to an already talented team.



The biggest issue was Shanny being a cheap F**k and letting the team sack leaders leave via free agency back to back years. After 03 he let B. Berry walk and then after 04 he let R. Hayward do the same thing.

Then came the great Brown-cos addtions...

gyldenlove
10-21-2009, 08:25 AM
I started this thread just to point out that firing Coyer was a mistake and probably will be chronicled as the beginning of the end for Shanahan in Denver. It wasn't intended as a "former coordinators" thread, though it became that when one referenced Jim Bates.

Coyer was a great coordinator that never had anyone with a clue on how to identify personnel on defense and poured syrup on crap and made pancakes. Several here accused him of being the problem when it's clear he never was as his defenses were the best in Shanahan's tenure here with arguably the worst front line.

And I'm not impressed with the Trojan's offense. They are no different than they were last year and I don't see how Bates has added anything to an already talented team.

Personnel decisions killed the Bronco defense of the early 2000. We had a solid defensive line and fast playmaking linebackers, then Peyton Manning happened and the defensive front was thrown away to upgrade the secondary.

Garcia Bronco
10-21-2009, 08:46 AM
I liked Coyer and I'm glad to see he landed a nice gig with the Colts.

But as others have mentioned....... his 2nd half adjustments?? :(

Exactly. But now he's ont eh same team as Manning...who is good enough to overcome a bad defense

TonyR
10-21-2009, 08:50 AM
The biggest issue was Shanny being a cheap **** and letting the team sack leaders leave via free agency back to back years...

If I remember correctly it wasn't being "cheap" as much as it was almost necessity because our cap situation was so bad due to poor personnel decisions. Weren't we in cap hell those years?

Merlin
10-21-2009, 10:24 AM
Meanwhile, Jeremy Bates' USC Trojans are cranking up almost 500 yards offense per game.
I would not want Bates coaching my NFL team until he learns to manage games. He is very smart, but he lacks something McD has in spades, Bates cannot understand the value of each snap, and slowing down the game.

Now as to Coyer, I'm surprised at Kaylore's apparent support. Coyer was a very good DC, but had to major failures. He would not make good (any?) adjustments in the second half of games, and could not make adjustments when facing great offenses (i.e. Indy and the like).

underrated29
10-21-2009, 11:12 AM
I like coyer, but not as a D coordinator. Most of the reason have been explained but here are my thoughts.

Coyer- Always stops the run first. When he was our DC we were almost always a top 10 defense and a top 5 run d. We traditionally ranked near the mid teens or latter for pass defense. That has been my main issue with larry.

We are all aware of his ZERO adjustments to teams. He will make a game plan and stick to it regardless. And if it worked in a game earlier he will recycle it. As mentioned the colts picked that up right away and EXPOSED us.

In the '03 season- we were solid against run and pass. Because he changed up his scheme each game by blitzing the ever living life out of every QB. Sometimes we had 2 cb playing 5 yards off and the other 9 were in an all out blits. (see eagles game where TO beat champ for a td).


This is why i dont like coyer. he cant adjust and will FOLD against good passing teams. Its no coincidence that the colts, pitts, bengals, and other teams during that era would beat us. They could pass the ball well out of 4 wide and torch us all day long.

Thats how we beat the colts when we play them. Not by our defense. but by our pass offense. If we run a 4-5 wide shot. We will be able to dink, dunk, slam and any other term you want to that defense. When he doesnt blitz he relies soley on the front 4 for pressure, if they cant get it. They are toast!


Bates (both of them) are other people i have been highly critical of. The DC bates had a cockamime scheme that was worthless here. I dont know where it would be worthwhile. And i dont believe in todays nfl that it will work anywhere.

The OC bates. I was really not impressed with. At BF (broncoforum) i made numerous posts and threads about his predictablility of play calling. And Routes. He works the sideline routes way too much. And it allows the corners to sit on those routes especially if they have S or LB help from the top or side. He rarely uses the middle unless its a quick 2 yard slant or a 25 yard hook in. Other than that the middle doesnt get used. He also doesnt spread out the defense enough with the routes he calls. I dont mind that he calls a ton of pass plays. Its the type of plays though that i was not a fan of. Also many of his plays are similiar or tweaked ever so slightly, but not enough to throw off an intelligent D player.IMO.

This also leads to higher percentage of interceptions. As the defense can tighten up coverage and slide players over. Especially when brining in extra DBs. because they dont need LB as he rarely works the middle.

The guy has potential but he needs to be more creative and use all areas of the field and change up the looks and routes. Maybe he does this now in college i do not know. But imo he needs a lot more exp, before he is crowned as a great OC.

azbroncfan
10-21-2009, 11:32 AM
Coyer was a good Defensive coordinator that if you could get him some good pass rushers he could scheme up a good D. He lacked in blitz scheming and halftime adjustments. The only way his blitzes worked was to send more than 6 players and blitzing Lynch and the OLB on the same side became very predictable. When you have to rely on sending more than 4 all the time you will get killed by certain teams and especially P. Manning who is probably the best QB ever against the blitz.

HEAV
10-21-2009, 01:18 PM
If I remember correctly it wasn't being "cheap" as much as it was almost necessity because our cap situation was so bad due to poor personnel decisions. Weren't we in cap hell those years?

Too long ago to remember (for me) Herc might know. I just remember feeling empty twice after the teams sack leader was allowed to walk back to back years.

listopencil
10-21-2009, 01:58 PM
While Larry Coyer was here he was given chicken **** to work with and very often made chicken salad out of it. He suffered under a Head Coach that placed more emphasis on his O than improving the team as a whole, and that Head Coach had too much power in the organization. Couple that with a record of drafting/aquiring train wrecks and you get epic, miserable fail.

Larry Coyer is a decent, classy, honorable man. He's also a good coach. His players respond to him. I'm happy for his success, and I'll root for him, unless his team plays the Broncos.

mhgaffney
10-21-2009, 02:14 PM
To beat the Colts we have to get pressure on Manning.

Not easy to do. I notice he only has two sacks. But the alternative is to lose.

UberBroncoMan
10-21-2009, 02:37 PM
Unfortunately for them, the season is 16 games long.

Fortunately for them they have one of the easiest schedules in the entire NFL.

Coyer could NEVER beat the Colts when it mattered. He ****ing sucked.

So now he's with them where he won't have to worry about that. He also has two awesome DE's... just a solid D personnel overall.

Taco John
10-21-2009, 02:50 PM
While Larry Coyer was here he was given chicken **** to work with and very often made chicken salad out of it. He suffered under a Head Coach that placed more emphasis on his O than improving the team as a whole, and that Head Coach had too much power in the organization. Couple that with a record of drafting/aquiring train wrecks and you get epic, miserable fail.

Larry Coyer is a decent, classy, honorable man. He's also a good coach. His players respond to him. I'm happy for his success, and I'll root for him, unless his team plays the Broncos.


:strong:

Garcia Bronco
10-21-2009, 03:04 PM
Too long ago to remember (for me) Herc might know. I just remember feeling empty twice after the teams sack leader was allowed to walk back to back years.

TR is correct.