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View Full Version : How Did Shanny Lose His Mojo?


Gort
10-20-2009, 12:31 AM
been thinking about this. came up with this analogy.

Shanny = Capt. Ahab
getting back to the Super Bowl = Moby Dick
Denver Broncos = the Pequod
Cutler = Fedallah
Bowlen = Ishmael

whatcha think?

watermock
10-20-2009, 12:36 AM
It's a long season.

I like his approach, prepare for each team individually.

~Crash~
10-20-2009, 01:00 AM
been thinking about this. came up with this analogy.

Shanny = Capt. Ahab
getting back to the Super Bowl = Moby Dick
Denver Broncos = the Pequod
Cutler = Fedallah
Bowlen = Ishmael

whatcha think?

He forgot that you need a D also

enjolras
10-20-2009, 01:04 AM
I've said it over the last few years, and I still believe I'm completely right.

Shannahan is probably the best football mind ever. He's a genius.

He is, however, not motivator. He is no leader. Over the last decade we saw a lot of internal turmoil (iHop and the 'little man upstairs' comes to mind). We won superbowls with a combination of Shannahans genius and Elways leadership. Without Elway, this team lacked the all encompassing front man to channel their emotion into championships.

That is the failure of Shannahan (and why I am terrified of him getting control of the Cowboys).

McDaniels brings incredible leadership to this team. I do not believe he is the strategic mastermind that Shanny was. I do, however know that he is meticulous in his preparation and an amazing leader. He brings a lot of innovation and ingenuity to the table on the offensive side of the football.

That leads to a team that will be consistently in contention every year, much like the patriots have been for the last decade.

That is very nice to see, and I have no doubt we'll be celebrating superbowl #3 sooner rather than later. For the first time this year, I think there is a chance it will be in February of 2010.

rovolution
10-20-2009, 01:16 AM
http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/bobslowik.jpg


question answered

bfoflcommish
10-20-2009, 08:03 AM
He coddled certain players (not naming but we know a couple), was soft in practice which carried over to games, didn't know how to finish a season, start off fast end with a thud, no consistency

FISH
10-20-2009, 08:05 AM
Head and shoulders does 7 great things for my hair!

Rohirrim
10-20-2009, 08:08 AM
So, who is Starbuck?

Gutless Drunk
10-20-2009, 08:11 AM
Actually the other day on 104.3 Alfred Williams said that Darrent Williams death really affected Shananan and he thinks that that it made him turn to being too soft.

bronco militia
10-20-2009, 08:12 AM
elway retired....

colonelbeef
10-20-2009, 08:13 AM
He coddled certain players (not naming but we know a couple), was soft in practice which carried over to games, didn't know how to finish a season, start off fast end with a thud, no consistency

You realize that he won 2 superbowls and had an AFC championship in Denver in 05/06 with a defensive minded team, right? You guys act like Shanahan was tripping over his own shoelaces and didn't know how to win or put a team together. The majority of these players are Shanahan diamonds taken late in recent drafts.

He was rebuilding the team after the Plummer team peaked, and rebuilding takes time and patience, especially when you are starting from scratch with a young QB. The OL, WRs, TEs, Dumervil, all a product of Shanahan's vision.

This team was going to win with Shanahan @ the helm and Cutler @ QB. The defense had to improve off of last season, but there is no way in hell that it would have improved to this point without the brilliant hire of Mike Nolan as DC and moving Dumervil to LB (The two best moves of the offseason)

tsiguy96
10-20-2009, 08:13 AM
he started to think talent could overcome intelligence and desire, it would seem.

colonelbeef
10-20-2009, 08:17 AM
he started to think talent could overcome intelligence and desire, it would seem.

the difference between this years' team and last years' is the defense, plain and simple. It's not feelings, brains, postcards, blogs, or candy canes. It's defense. Mike Nolan, Brian Dawkins, and Elvis Dumervil having found his place in the NFL.

Last years' team would have gone deep into the playoffs with this D, it's top 2 or 3 in the league and a total nightmare for QBs in the 2nd half of games. Every time they need a stop the get it. Nolan is obviously an amazing adjuster, as evidenced with his 2nd half dominance of opposing O's.

bfoflcommish
10-20-2009, 08:20 AM
You realize that he won 2 superbowls and had an AFC championship in Denver in 05/06 with a defensive minded team, right? You guys act like Shanahan was tripping over his own shoelaces and didn't know how to win or put a team together. The majority of these players are Shanahan diamonds taken late in recent drafts.

He was rebuilding the team after the Plummer team peaked, and rebuilding takes time and patience, especially when you are starting from scratch with a young QB. The OL, WRs, TEs, Dumervil, all a product of Shanahan's vision.

This team was going to win with Shanahan @ the helm and Cutler @ QB. The defense had to improve off of last season, but there is no way in hell that it would have improved to this point without the brilliant hire of Mike Nolan as DC and moving Dumervil to LB (The two best moves of the offseason)


so you disagree with me that he coddled certain players which alienated the "team" chemistry?

this year is much more of a "team" then we have seen since #7 retired.

lostknight
10-20-2009, 08:21 AM
I do think the Darrent Williams death affected many people on this team, and formally on this team, profoundly. Certainly Javon Walker falls into that category as well.

How did Shanny loose his Mojo? Just like a lot of other people in ordinary jobs, he lost his hunger. He lost the ability to second-guess his decisions, the will to walk away from his own mistakes.

Shanny will be back. If I had to put money on it, it will be in San Diego (Lord help us), or the Cowboys. No matter where he is, he is going to be tough to beat.

Peoples Champ
10-20-2009, 08:32 AM
I just think he was having a hard time motivating the team. Couldnt get the players to play for something anymore.

You still cant hate on his talent search ability. Come on, Doomervil, Marshall, Sheffler, Clady, STEALS !!!!!

Rohirrim
10-20-2009, 08:36 AM
Another way to look at it: How many of the players that Shanahan had on defense were cut by McD and are no longer in the NFL? Shanahan had no clue what to do on defense. Absolutely no clue. And his personnel decisions on D were abyssmal.

Peoples Champ
10-20-2009, 08:39 AM
Another way to look at it: How many of the players that Shanahan had on defense were cut by McD and are no longer in the NFL? Shanahan had no clue what to do on defense. Absolutely no clue. And his personnel decisions on D were abyssmal.


Ya , except for giving up a very young promising RB, Rookie of the year probowl running back, possibly a franchise running back at the time (not anymore),

For a pro bowl Cornerback named Champ Bailey.

Usually an offensive minded coach would have went with the Running Back.

tsiguy96
10-20-2009, 08:41 AM
the difference between this years' team and last years' is the defense, plain and simple. It's not feelings, brains, postcards, blogs, or candy canes. It's defense. Mike Nolan, Brian Dawkins, and Elvis Dumervil having found his place in the NFL.

Last years' team would have gone deep into the playoffs with this D, it's top 2 or 3 in the league and a total nightmare for QBs in the 2nd half of games. Every time they need a stop the get it. Nolan is obviously an amazing adjuster, as evidenced with his 2nd half dominance of opposing O's.

but this defense is a direct result of josh mcdaniels, shanahan has NEVER had a defense play as dominant as this one is, with players good enough to sustain it. not to mention the offense is getting better and more on target every week, whos to say this years team cant go deep into playoffs with this D? they are scoring the same amount or more points than last years team, who after week 4 did nothing.

its not all on nolan, you have to give mcdaniels credit eventually. 76-10 is 2nd half scoring differential, thats as much mcdaniels as anyone.

bronco militia
10-20-2009, 08:42 AM
Another way to look at it: How many of the players that Shanahan had on defense were cut by McD and are no longer in the NFL? Shanahan had no clue what to do on defense. Absolutely no clue. And his personnel decisions on D were abyssmal.

he left it up to his coaching staff.

and that was his downfall. In the end he delegated too much and protected his coaching staff more than he did his players. (shanny always had the largest coaching staff in the NFL)

HAT
10-20-2009, 08:50 AM
and rebuilding takes time and patience, )

McD, Nolan and the 8 players on D not named Champ, DJ, or Elvis say hi.

Garcia Bronco
10-20-2009, 08:51 AM
He stopped coaching it seemed. The mental errors...the bad discipline.

WolfpackGuy
10-20-2009, 08:54 AM
His right hand man, Bob

http://media.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/content/img/photos/2009/02/19/slowik1_t200.JPG

And some horrendous defensive drafting

Garcia Bronco
10-20-2009, 08:55 AM
His right hand man, Bob

http://media.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/content/img/photos/2009/02/19/slowik1_t200.JPG

Shanahan had input on that defense. It's not like we got to week 15 and Shanahan said....hey....quit playing the DB's 15 yards off the LOS.

Inkana7
10-20-2009, 08:59 AM
I dunno. But whatever it was, it sucked.

TonyR
10-20-2009, 09:03 AM
His right hand man, Bob...


Everyone keeps blaming Slowik but the defensive problems started long before him. Remember Robinson, Rhodes, Coyer, and Bates?

TonyR
10-20-2009, 09:16 AM
Shanny will be back. If I had to put money on it, it will be in San Diego (Lord help us), or the Cowboys. No matter where he is, he is going to be tough to beat.

I don't know why people fear this scenario. McD/Nolan are far superior to Shanny/whoever at this point. Shanahan used to be the man but that's no longer the case. If you fear Shanahan you're living in the past.

chrisp
10-20-2009, 10:01 AM
I think Shanny was a great coach, and will be again, but I think that a few of his key failings are here:

1) he was too impatient with his defensive co-ordinators - one bad season and you're out. Bates didn't get five minutes to really try and get his system working, plus he never had the personnel - Robinson and Coyer both saw their defenses drop off due to retirement of key players and lost their jobs accordingly. By the time Shanny realised this, it was too late - I've said before and will say again that I think he painted himself into a corner with Slowik, replacing good guys with bad, and then not being able to replace the bad becuase then if you do you've had 4 DCs in 4 years.....

2) Wrong approach to health and conditioning: he didn't keep the practices soft becuase he was soft, he did it to avoid injuries, noting that when we won the superbowl we had very few. Now this is true, but I think that this year so far has shown that soft practices is NOT the way to avoid this. Proper stretching and preparation seems tobe the key so far, and the fact that the trainer was NOT sacked after a woeful rash of injuries last year must mean he had some ideas about this that Shanny hadn't let him implement but which the new regime liked a lot...

3) Desire - now this is relative, as by the time he was sacked I'm sure he was still doing far more hours than the average 9-5er, but I just had a gut feel that he didn't have the real genuine passion for winning that he had had in seasons past. I'm only saying that he was a little stale, not that he was completely flat, and I think his sacking may relight the fire.

Natedogg
10-20-2009, 11:15 AM
Like some in the thread have alluded, he stated to lose his mojo when he fired Ray Rhodes. 1) He lost a top 5 D coordinator and 2) he forced all the D personnel to start from scratch.

Would have been alot easier to have a crappy d for a year or two with Rhodes that developed into a solid/good/great D later.

lostknight
10-20-2009, 11:36 AM
I don't know why people fear this scenario. McD/Nolan are far superior to Shanny/whoever at this point. Shanahan used to be the man but that's no longer the case. If you fear Shanahan you're living in the past.

We think this way because the man has two rings on his fingers, and competed every year. You underestimate how hard that is to do in the NFL, in part because of him.

He will be back. He had Belichick's number all those years with McD in New England, why would you think he wouldn't have McD's here?

Not to say it wasn't the right move to get rid of him - it absolutely is - but only a idiot thinks you can write him off.

ZONA
10-20-2009, 12:17 PM
WHO CARES. Shanny is gone and has been gone coming up on a year now. This is off-season stuff.

TonyR
10-20-2009, 12:25 PM
...because the man has two rings on his fingers...

...He had Belichick's number all those years with McD in New England...


I don't like going here because I love and respect what Shanahan did for this organization, but...

Those rings were earned over ten years ago.

And do you recall what Belichick and McD did to Shanny's Broncos last season?

Shanahan was a great coach. Emphasis on the was part. He's probably only a good one now.

Like I said, living in the past.

barryr
10-20-2009, 12:30 PM
Like happens to many coaches who coach for a long time, I think the players tuned Shanahan out and I think he got a little complacent. Players getting the same message over and over and after awhile, it gets stale. Fisher with the Titans may be experiencing that problem right now himself.

NUB
10-20-2009, 12:38 PM
Shanahan never lost his mojo. He simply never got a defensive-coordinator. Our offense this year is actually pretty mediocre, but you can see how well a stout defense can alleviate that. Combine that with a Shanahan offense, which could get the most out of anybody, and you got a pretty stellar team. Unfortunately, Shanahan's achilles heal wasn't his own football aptitude, which I'd put up against anybody in the league as far as the offense goes, but the simple fact he couldn't find a defensive coordinator worth a damn. I still think going 8-8 with one of NFL history's worst defenses ever was a remarkable feat, but people were too caught up in the fact we didn't inch into the playoffs after getting into a position we really shouldn't have been in in the first place.

barryr
10-20-2009, 12:44 PM
Actually, no playoffs the last 3 years and only 1 playoff win a decade helped get Shanahan fired. Not to mention hanging onto a stiff DC in Slowik.

DenverBrit
10-20-2009, 12:49 PM
Whenever someone decides to build a Thirty Five Thousand sq ft home and open a restaurant using his name as a draw, his attention is diverted from football.

Oh, and Slowic!!

HEAV
10-20-2009, 12:51 PM
Bill Walsh once said that NFL coaches have a ten year life span with one team. After that the message sounds the same and the system grows stale.

This is why he retired after his tenth year and winning the Super Bowl for the last time. He could have stayed and won another Super Bowl in 1989, but left it to Seifert.

Burnout is also a factor, becoming complacent and just thinking what you did before will work today.

Basically Shanny stopped coaching players and was more a CEO.

Gort
10-20-2009, 12:57 PM
WHO CARES. Shanny is gone and has been gone coming up on a year now. This is off-season stuff.

no, its bye week stuff. what else are we going to talk about for 2 weeks?

jsco70
10-20-2009, 01:38 PM
I would propose another factor was the "coach for life" status Bowlen had inferred after the Super Bowls. I think most people would tend to become complacent if they knew/thought their employer wouldn't fire them regardless of their production.

Cmac821
10-20-2009, 01:44 PM
I dunno. But whatever it was, it sucked.

lol, that is the simplest answer on here

Broncomutt
10-20-2009, 02:30 PM
Whenever someone decides to build a Thirty Five Thousand sq ft home and open a restaurant using his name as a draw, his attention is diverted from football.

Oh, and Slowic!!

When I think of Shanny and the past 3 years, what comes to mind is that Captain on the first season (I think) of The Wire. Don't think he had a name, but he was in charge of the unit.

All he did was play with a toy model of his retirement home. Rubber stamped everything that came in front of him. Never made any crucial decisions. Just played with his toy model while counting the days until his pension. Just delegated everything.

Luckily he had good leiutenants. Shanny never really did.

I mean this comparison in a figurative way, I don't think he literally had a toy model. But I do think I better understand IHOPs comment:

"The little man upstairs" :wave: