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View Full Version : McDaniels had some balls to trade Cutler for Orton. The man knows football


bronco0608
10-19-2009, 11:11 PM
I mean, you couldn't find ONE GUY ON THE ENTIRE PLANET that endorsed this deal when it happened. Not one. Dude got torched in the media and by the fanbase for the trade.

But what did he know? He HAD to know something. He had to know that no matter how much he tried, Cutler would never be his QB. But to have the balls to trade Cutler for Orton? Wow.

The man who stood alone in the face of massive criticism now looks brilliant.

But its not by chance is it? No, its not. Plain and simple, Mcdaniels knows football and he knows personel.

Thank God this man is on our side. And he is only 33!

We good!

Archer81
10-19-2009, 11:13 PM
I loved his comment at his post game presser. Do you think Orton was this good in Chicago or did it happen here?

"Honestly, I dont know, and I dont care."

:Broncos:

Kaylore
10-19-2009, 11:15 PM
Point of clarification: Bowlen traded Cutler. McDaniels made the trade for Orton.

SoDak Bronco
10-19-2009, 11:15 PM
I loved his comment at his post game presser. Do you think Orton was this good in Chicago or did it happen here?

"Honestly, I dont know, and I dont care."

:Broncos:

lol +1 Great commment

BowlenBall
10-19-2009, 11:29 PM
Very nice thread, and I whole-heartedly agree.

My best buddies over here are Steelers fans, and now they're giving me grief for losing faith over the offseason. Just goes to show you -- support your team, no matter what.

Oh -- and Josh McDaniels is the bomb!

lazarus4444
10-19-2009, 11:31 PM
Not to mention we also got two first round picks and a 3rd rounder AND Orton. Who do you think got the better end of this deal now?

Popps
10-19-2009, 11:32 PM
Point of clarification: Bowlen traded Cutler. McDaniels made the trade for Orton.

Right... and that's Orton, plus Ayers and A. Smith.

cabronco
10-19-2009, 11:37 PM
Give kudos to Mr. Pat Bowlen for making the changes . Im sure it wasnt easy for him letting go of Shanahan. Then to screen through all candidates and choose McD., well he was spot on with his decisions. Thank You Mr. Bowlen.

KevinJames
10-19-2009, 11:39 PM
Right... and that's Orton, plus Ayers and A. Smith.

technically

A.Smith was had with our own pick but in the deal we got a 1st round pick next year somewhere in the 10-20 because we know minny got that division on lock.

speaking of Ayers he had a fine game getting some good pressure at times.

fdf
10-19-2009, 11:42 PM
Point of clarification: Bowlen traded Cutler. McDaniels made the trade for Orton.

Further point of clarification, the Broncos did not trade Cutler for Orton. I think we got some draft picks, too.

El Guapo
10-20-2009, 05:03 AM
I have to admit I was thoroughly pissed with the entire offseason. Now, I'm presently surprised.

atomicbloke
10-20-2009, 05:21 AM
I wish we had not given up the 5th that they used on Johnny Knox.

THAT would have really screwed them.

It seemed at that time that the trade was just the 2 1st round picks, and Orton was just a throw in serviceable QB.

Boy, how that tunred out so far.

The Joker
10-20-2009, 05:30 AM
Point of clarification: Bowlen traded Cutler. McDaniels made the trade for Orton.

Always kinda felt that was a little bit of a case of Bowlen taking the bullet to protect his young HC.

We'll never know though, I guess.

To me the trade is

Cutler for Orton, Smith and Moreno.

I don't think we can take a RB at #12 with no additional first rounder, and I don't think we trade a future 1st for a 2nd without an extra one next year either.

tsiguy96
10-20-2009, 05:30 AM
Very nice thread, and I whole-heartedly agree.

My best buddies over here are Steelers fans, and now they're giving me grief for losing faith over the offseason. Just goes to show you -- support your team, no matter what.

Oh -- and Josh McDaniels is the bomb!

dont think people will ever do that. some people love the drama too much.

Broncomutt
10-20-2009, 05:37 AM
I mean, you couldn't find ONE GUY ON THE ENTIRE PLANET that endorsed this deal when it happened. Not one. Dude got torched in the media and by the fanbase for the trade.



Just an FYI, there were a few fans on the board here that were glad to see the crybaby go. There are a few smart people on this board who didn't want a "me first" guy under center.

But I know where you're coming from. Most people either couldn't get past Shanny being gone or Cutler's rifle arm. But there are a few people here who understand the NFL.

Best off-season ever.

bronclvr
10-20-2009, 06:02 AM
I cannot imagine what must be going through Shanahan's mind right now-

errand
10-20-2009, 06:09 AM
I think it's time for all those who trashed Orton and McDaniels to acknowledge that perhaps they are pretty damn good at doing their jobs......they won't of course, all they'll do is continue to say it was luck, or the defense, or whatever else they've spewed the entire year.

baja
10-20-2009, 06:13 AM
<b>I mean, you couldn't find ONE GUY ON THE ENTIRE PLANET that endorsed this deal when it happened. Not one. </b> Dude got torched in the media and by the fanbase for the trade.

But what did he know? He HAD to know something. He had to know that no matter how much he tried, Cutler would never be his QB. But to have the balls to trade Cutler for Orton? Wow.

The man who stood alone in the face of massive criticism now looks brilliant.

But its not by chance is it? No, its not. Plain and simple, Mcdaniels knows football and he knows personel.

Thank God this man is on our side. And he is only 33!

We good!

That is not true give credit where credit is due. by the time we traded Cutler I was very happy with the trade and I was not the only one. Several fans here were all for this trade and caught hell for it

Mogulseeker
10-20-2009, 06:20 AM
Not to mention we also got two first round picks and a 3rd rounder AND Orton. Who do you think got the better end of this deal now?

We traded the picks up, too.

So essentially, for Cutler and a 5th we got Orton, Ayers/Moreno (since we probably would have taken Ayers at 12, I'd say Moreno is more like it), Alphonso Smith (the trade went down because we had two firsts next year), and Richard Quinn - the verdict is still out on Quinn.

BUT

Orton, Moreno, Smith and Quinn > Cutler

For a pouty, risk-taking, franchise quarterback, we got:

1. A safe, verbal leader of a franchise quarterback (yes, I am now calling Orton a franchise QB). 26 years old.

2a. A potential franchise running back who has shown some flashes of brilliance and always seems to fall forward, who can also catch and block. 22 years old.

2b. A defensive end/linebacker who some literally called the player in the draft with the most potential. 22 years old.

3. A playmaking cornerback who has been looking stellar for a rookie. 22 years old.

4. A blocking tight end with some potential. Looks to take over for the agin Graham. 22 years old.

With the exception of Orton, they're all under contract for at least 4 years.

oubronco
10-20-2009, 06:20 AM
Not to mention we also got two first round picks and a 3rd rounder AND Orton. Who do you think got the better end of this deal now?

Easy there still is alot of football to be played

s0phr0syne
10-20-2009, 06:24 AM
Anything that happened this offseason was b/c the genius McD KNEW it would turn out a certain way. There were no calculated gambles. Everything was done knowing the absolute truth.

Gotchya...

TonyR
10-20-2009, 06:29 AM
How do you think Seattle feels about taking our first instead of Chicago's?

How do you think Jay Cutler feels wondering what could have been if he stayed on this team?

TailgateNut
10-20-2009, 06:29 AM
I mean, you couldn't find ONE GUY ON THE ENTIRE PLANET that endorsed this deal when it happened. Not one. Dude got torched in the media and by the fanbase for the trade.

But what did he know? He HAD to know something. He had to know that no matter how much he tried, Cutler would never be his QB. But to have the balls to trade Cutler for Orton? Wow.

The man who stood alone in the face of massive criticism now looks brilliant.

But its not by chance is it? No, its not. Plain and simple, Mcdaniels knows football and he knows personel.

Thank God this man is on our side. And he is only 33!

We good!


BS, there were quite a few of us who ENDORSED IT (we were called stupid, ignorant, clueless.....etc,etc...)

Mogulseeker
10-20-2009, 06:34 AM
BS, there were quite a few of us who ENDORSED IT (we were called stupid, ignorant, clueless.....etc,etc...)

Thank you for clarifying this, Leo. We get no respect, do we?

chex
10-20-2009, 06:34 AM
It's nice to have a QB that's not Philip Rivers' b****.

barryr
10-20-2009, 06:36 AM
I wasn't against the Cutler trade. He was acting like a spoiled, little baby, so I understood the trade and posted so many times. But unlike most Cutler fans and supposed geniuses in the media, was willing to give McDaniels and Orton a chance before calling for anyone's head, like say one freaking game at least.

McDaniels has this team ready to play every game so far at least. The same can't be said for Shanahan whose teams seemed to take some games off. Getting rid of Shanahan was another move I highly endorsed.

DemonEagles
10-20-2009, 06:45 AM
I thought the trade was good for the bronco's, they could ride orton to a 7-9 season then rebuild with the draft picks. Now they are just blowing up. Playmakers all over the field, they can fill some gaps or get playmakers in the draft.

Merlin
10-20-2009, 06:59 AM
Right... and that's Orton, plus Ayers and A. Smith.
For Cutler and Knox. If I understand it correctly Denver gave up the fifth that Chicago used to get the WR Knox.

BroncoFiend
10-20-2009, 07:08 AM
I wish we had not given up the 5th that they used on Johnny Knox.

THAT would have really screwed them.

It seemed at that time that the trade was just the 2 1st round picks, and Orton was just a throw in serviceable QB.

Boy, how that tunred out so far.

Remember that McDaniels came out and said it was Orton that he wanted, and he turned down better draft pick packages to get him. Seeing how this is playing out, it's hard not to think that McDaniels just didn't see Cutler as a good fit for his offense.

Odysseus
10-20-2009, 07:24 AM
I have to admit I was thoroughly pissed with the entire offseason. Now, I'm presently surprised.

I was more disappointed in the fans response than anything Mcdaniels did or did not do. As a devout Shanahan watcher I wanted to see how the PLAYERS reacted to McDaniels. This results are amazing.

Where are the seasonal ups and downs? What happened to being hot one game and then cold the next? Where did all these playmakers come from? When did Broncos learn to play defense?

As a team they execute, avoid making mistakes, and get the "lucky" breaks because they earned them. It's fun to see this team putting teams away.

Congratulations to Josh McDaniels and all the fans who supported him early.

Steve Sewell
10-20-2009, 07:26 AM
Give kudos to Mr. Pat Bowlen for making the changes . Im sure it wasnt easy for him letting go of Shanahan. Then to screen through all candidates and choose McD., well he was spot on with his decisions. Thank You Mr. Bowlen.

Best owner in all of pro sports.

Paladin
10-20-2009, 07:29 AM
Thing is, the Broncos traded for a Pro Bowl QB who can actually lead the team to win games. That is one for the Book of Ironies.....

Karenin
10-20-2009, 07:33 AM
I think it's time for all those who trashed Orton and McDaniels to acknowledge that perhaps they are pretty damn good at doing their jobs......they won't of course, all they'll do is continue to say it was luck, or the defense, or whatever else they've spewed the entire year.

luckily, most of those people are gone, hopefully forever. well except that cum-guzzler broncobuff and that old guy with the intellect of a 5 year old, watermock.

TotallyScrewed
10-20-2009, 07:44 AM
I have to admit I was thoroughly pissed with the entire offseason. Now, I'm presently surprised.

Me too. And very happy with the present situation.

Not to bash on Orton, EVEN THOUGH MOST OF YOU WILL SAY YOU'RE BASHING ORTON AGAIN, but what would this team be like if Josh had gotten the guy he originally wanted:

Cassel??

The team is crazy good right at the moment. It seems Josh and Nolan know exactly when to step on the gas and aren't easing up on anybody and I like that attitude, but what IF??

Can we somehow get Cassel to drop his completion percentage, TD's/pass or whatever, and get him to Denver?? Or should we just thank our lucky stars that we're where we are??

This bye week is going to seem like an offseason.

barryr
10-20-2009, 07:47 AM
According to some, Orton was the worst QB in the NFL, so if Orton can play so well in this offense, it wouldn't be hard to see Cassell also doing well. Not many QB's would be thriving in KC these days.

~Crash~
10-20-2009, 07:48 AM
Point of clarification: Bowlen traded Cutler. McDaniels made the trade for Orton.

Cutler got us 2 firsts

Orton we gave up a 5th rounder .

~Crash~
10-20-2009, 07:51 AM
Not to mention we also got two first round picks and a 3rd rounder AND Orton. Who do you think got the better end of this deal now?

here is were people get to damn crazy sorry but only time will tell . I hope we did but ....

~Crash~
10-20-2009, 07:54 AM
luckily, most of those people are gone, hopefully forever. well except that cum-guzzler broncobuff and that old guy with the intellect of a 5 year old, watermock.

eat **** and die

jhat01
10-20-2009, 07:59 AM
Orton is at the top of his game. The Broncos are fun to watch again! I love it! And I love rooting against our punk former qb.

strafen
10-20-2009, 08:04 AM
Give kudos to Mr. Pat Bowlen for making the changes . Im sure it wasnt easy for him letting go of Shanahan. Then to screen through all candidates and choose McD., well he was spot on with his decisions. Thank You Mr. Bowlen.I was defending Pat Bowlen against all the ignorant comments throughout the entire off-season

My point always was that Bowlen is a shrewd businessman. He has made his money thru family inherent business, but as far as maintaining the Broncos franchise as one of the most respectable and successful franchises in the NFL, is all him
Right on, Pat!!!

Karenin
10-20-2009, 08:05 AM
eat **** and die

oh, i guess you're still around. which is surprising, considering how dumb you made yourself look in the offseason. maybe it's time to start over with a new account bro, make people forget about how foolish you are.

strafen
10-20-2009, 08:07 AM
I think it's time for all those who trashed Orton and McDaniels to acknowledge that perhaps they are pretty damn good at doing their jobs......they won't of course, all they'll do is continue to say it was luck, or the defense, or whatever else they've spewed the entire year.The defense is for real. Orton is product of the system, and McDaniels is a damn good head coach...

Doggcow
10-20-2009, 08:15 AM
I loved his comment at his post game presser. Do you think Orton was this good in Chicago or did it happen here?

"Honestly, I dont know, and I dont care."

:Broncos:

The question posed was actually: "Was what everyone thought about Orton Wrong, or did he just get better here in Denver?"

he replied: essentially your quote: "I don't know what everyone thought about Orton before the deal, and I don't care."

colonelbeef
10-20-2009, 08:21 AM
This team is winning because of Mike Nolan and the defense, with the offensive line being a close 2nd. The Broncos would be winning with Jay Cutler @ QB. This defense would win with probably 25 Qbs from around the league

TailgateNut
10-20-2009, 08:23 AM
This team is winning because of Mike Nolan and the defense, with the offensive line being a close 2nd. The Broncos would be winning with Jay Cutler @ QB. This defense would win with probably 25 Qbs from around the league

Do you practice being a dick, or does it come naturally.

Dagmar
10-20-2009, 08:41 AM
From the opinion column of the Chicago Sun-Times.
No link, the paper is in front of me.

someone ought to explain to Jay Cutler that petulance - or it's cousin, postgame pouting or whatever it was that te Bears quarterback displayed after Sundays loss in Atlanta - is an option play he can afford to run only after he has achieved something. Which, the last time Quick Hits looked, comes after 16 regular season games and involves a level of post season success.

It's become apparent in Chicago the golden child is a bit of a little bitch.

TailgateNut
10-20-2009, 09:14 AM
From the opinion column of the Chicago Sun-Times.
No link, the paper is in front of me.



It's become apparent in Chicago the golden child is a bit of a little b****.


Who would have thunk it?:wiggle:

bpc
10-20-2009, 09:20 AM
Gotta give the man credit. Bowlen too. 6-0, no way we could have started better this season.

HEAV
10-20-2009, 10:08 AM
This team is winning because of Mike Nolan and the defense, with the offensive line being a close 2nd. The Broncos would be winning with Jay Cutler @ QB. This defense would win with probably 25 Qbs from around the league

Not with Jay's redzone play. Orton has crushed him in Rating,Comp, Int thrown, sacks taken...

But continue the "Jay is/was Elway 2.0"....

Cutler will never reach his true potential. Why you say? Because he's been allowed to be a wild gun since High School. Every coach/team was more worried about letting him sling than teaching him how to win.

azbroncfan
10-20-2009, 10:23 AM
This team is winning because of Mike Nolan and the defense, with the offensive line being a close 2nd. The Broncos would be winning with Jay Cutler @ QB. This defense would win with probably 25 Qbs from around the league

McD deserves the most credit. He will catch all the heat too when things go bad. The guy knows Defense as he was a Defensive coach in NE for some time. There is no way that this team would be 6-0 especially with all the close wins with a QB that turns the ball over 2 times a game. Orton TD to INT stats in the redzone for his Career is 30-2. What do you think Jay's is? Jay is a flashy loser.

chex
10-20-2009, 10:35 AM
This team is winning because of Mike Nolan and the defense, with the offensive line being a close 2nd. The Broncos would be winning with Jay Cutler @ QB. This defense would win with probably 25 Qbs from around the league

Yeah, that 16th ranked QB rating of his would have us at 7-0, even though we've only played six games.

errand
10-25-2009, 09:29 AM
Anything that happened this offseason was b/c the genius McD KNEW it would turn out a certain way. There were no calculated gambles. Everything was done knowing the absolute truth.

Gotchya...

alot of Dallas Cowboy players that played for Tom Landry use to think like you do....until they noticed that the LB would do this when the offense did that...just like Tom told them he would.

Mike Shanahan while prepping for SBXXXII said when the Packers do this, we're gona do that...he could tell what the D was gonna do by where Packer's S Leroy Butler was on the field....

McDaniels noticed that Orton was able to produce wins despite average QB stats...but the one thing he knew we needed to improve was red zone scoring, and he noticed that Orton had thrown 22 TD's vs only 2 INT's in red zone...and this season he's got like 5-6 TD's vs 0 INT's in red zone.

Doesn't mean they're clairvoyant...just means they look at ceetain things and says we're gonna do this or play this player because in 3-4 weeks this is what is gonna happen or this is what he's gonna be doing for us.

errand
10-25-2009, 09:37 AM
The defense is for real. Orton is product of the system, and McDaniels is a damn good head coach...

OK, let's go with your "product of the system" take.

Just because a certain guy can play better in one system than another doesn't make him a "system" QB...

some guys could perform well regardless of who they play for or what kind of "system" they run. Look at the Broncos running game during Mike's tenure....running bakcs who ran east and west didn't fare as well as those that ran north and south. Your basic one cut and run downhill type RB coming out of college would do well in our former coach's system.

Olandis Gary, Reuben Droughns, Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Selvyn Young have all had great to above average success running in Mike's "system"...so does that mean that Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis were products of the same "system"?

How about this....couldn't we say that Orton has the required skill set to perform at a high level and succeed in this particular offense? He had a 65% winning pct. in Chicago running their "system"...so it's not like he was void of talent prior to coming to Denver.

ro_50
10-25-2009, 10:05 AM
I mean, you couldn't find ONE GUY ON THE ENTIRE PLANET that endorsed this deal when it happened. Not one. Dude got torched in the media and by the fanbase for the trade.

But what did he know? He HAD to know something. He had to know that no matter how much he tried, Cutler would never be his QB. But to have the balls to trade Cutler for Orton? Wow.

The man who stood alone in the face of massive criticism now looks brilliant.

But its not by chance is it? No, its not. Plain and simple, Mcdaniels knows football and he knows personel.

Thank God this man is on our side. And he is only 33!

We good!

It was Bowlen made the decision and McDaniels obliged since Cutler didn't return Bowlen's calls/text messages.

And not everyone was jumping off the bridge when the trade happened.

baja
10-25-2009, 10:30 AM
It was Bowlen made the decision and McDaniels obliged since Cutler didn't return Bowlen's calls/text messages.

And not everyone was jumping off the bridge when the trade happened.

Cutler is the anti-Rudy don't know why that was so hard to see, especially down the stretch when we needed one measly win.

Cutler = the best looking loser in the NFL.

NYBronco
10-25-2009, 10:35 AM
Give kudos to Mr. Pat Bowlen for making the changes . Im sure it wasnt easy for him letting go of Shanahan. Then to screen through all candidates and choose McD., well he was spot on with his decisions. Thank You Mr. Bowlen.

Yes, thank you Mr. Bowlen a gutless drunk you are not. A gutless drunk would have stayed with the Shanahan regime.

NYBronco
10-25-2009, 10:36 AM
It was Bowlen made the decision and McDaniels obliged since Cutler didn't return Bowlen's calls/text messages.

And not everyone was jumping off the bridge when the trade happened.

Just as I suspected it was Cutler's choice to leave Denver.

rbackfactory80
10-25-2009, 10:44 AM
Cant wait to watch Jay throw a red zone pick today.

RMT
10-25-2009, 10:56 AM
This team is winning because of Mike Nolan and the defense, with the offensive line being a close 2nd. The Broncos would be winning with Jay Cutler @ QB. This defense would win with probably 25 Qbs from around the league

cutler is 3-2 with the #13 defense in the NFL. last year he was 4-1 at this point with one of the worst defenses.

if cutler were such a GREAT QB, his impact on his team's record would be more significant than merely how great his team's defenses happened to be. cutler thinks he is above the game and is one of God's greatest gifts to the QB position yet so many of his supporters point to how well his team's defenses play as if to excuse his inability to take over and win games. that's weak.

McDman
10-25-2009, 11:17 AM
Just an FYI, there were a few fans on the board here that were glad to see the crybaby go. There are a few smart people on this board who didn't want a "me first" guy under center.

But I know where you're coming from. Most people either couldn't get past Shanny being gone or Cutler's rifle arm. But there are a few people here who understand the NFL.

Best off-season ever.

Just because some people did not want Cutler gone does not mean they're not smart, that's such a ridiculous statement.

I've never like Cutler as a person, but as a QB he has all the talent in the world. I got excited when we hired josh because I thought of the possibilities of what he could do with Jay. I still think had him and Josh teamed up we'd be even better than we are now.

McDman
10-25-2009, 11:19 AM
Best owner in all of pro sports.

He's awesome, no doubt, but it's hard to argue against the Rooneys. They're legends.

McDman
10-25-2009, 11:21 AM
Do you practice being a dick, or does it come naturally.

How is that being a dick??

it's probably true. Our defense is nasty, as is our offensive line.

listopencil
10-25-2009, 11:43 AM
Meh, it looked to me like McD wanted Cutler to be our QB when he took the job. The Broncos listened to trade offers but they didn't pull the trigger until Cutler forced them to. So...no. I don't buy the idea in the OP. I give credit to the organization as a whole for recognizing the situation and making the best of it. I give credit to Nolan for building our D into something that carried us through several weeks, and continues to be our strength. I also give credit to McD for identifying Orton as a QB he could work with, then doing the coaching to get Orton to be as effective as he has been so far.

listopencil
10-25-2009, 11:44 AM
How is that being a dick??

it's probably true. Our defense is nasty, as is our offensive line.


I was going to ask the same question. Your point is valid. I guess he just isn't bowing down and slobbering on McD enough for some people...

fontaine
10-25-2009, 12:43 PM
Wait, didn't McDaniels think about trading for Cassell FIRST? And looking at how badly he's playing for his new team and the kind of deal he got, that would have made McD look pretty stupid.

Bronx33
10-25-2009, 12:49 PM
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8431/746595481.png

NYBronco
10-25-2009, 12:54 PM
Wait, didn't McDaniels think about trading for Cassell FIRST? And looking at how badly he's playing for his new team and the kind of deal he got, that would have made McD look pretty stupid.

Put Cassell in McD's offense and maybe not so much.

McDman
10-25-2009, 01:04 PM
Put Cassell in McD's offense and maybe not so much.

Exactly. While I think Orton is a good QB, there is no doubt that the system, defense, and offensive line are helping him a tremendous amount.

Put Orton in KC and do you really think he is nearly as good as he is here?

lazarus4444
10-26-2009, 12:13 AM
Ok a couple of comments here...

Joe Montana was a "system" QB too. He never lacked for talent either...The guy was an absolute winner but i don' think he could have done it on a crap team like Elway had to.

McD watched every single play Orton has ever played before he gave his approval to trade with the bears. Now that is dedication, love this guy!

Hulamau
10-26-2009, 12:20 AM
That is not true give credit where credit is due. by the time we traded Cutler I was very happy with the trade and I was not the only one. Several fans here were all for this trade and caught hell for it

Popps and yours truly were on the front line as well amongst a few others.

Br0nc0Buster
10-26-2009, 06:12 AM
Wait, didn't McDaniels think about trading for Cassell FIRST? And looking at how badly he's playing for his new team and the kind of deal he got, that would have made McD look pretty stupid.

not to beat at dead horse, but no he didnt

although Cassel would prolly look much better in Joshs system with better players

TonyR
10-26-2009, 06:26 AM
Put Cassell in McD's offense and maybe not so much.

Exactly. He'd be good for us just as he was for NE last year.

barryr
10-26-2009, 06:29 AM
Orton played in a pass first system while at Purdue, so throwing the ball isn't exactly new for him. He played in a conservative type of offense at Chicago, which wasn't because Orton can't throw the ball by the way. Looks like Cutler is having his troubles in such a system.

Meck77
10-26-2009, 07:29 AM
McDaniels certainly knows football and he's also a proven winner unlike Cutler who has always been a loser.

Besides the Taco effect never fails. When he goes on record you can always expect the opposite result. :thumbsup:

Cito Pelon
10-26-2009, 08:59 AM
Just because some people did not want Cutler gone does not mean they're not smart, that's such a ridiculous statement.

I've never like Cutler as a person, but as a QB he has all the talent in the world. I got excited when we hired josh because I thought of the possibilities of what he could do with Jay. I still think had him and Josh teamed up we'd be even better than we are now.

Well, the thing was the people that were upset about trading Jay totally lost their cool, went hysterical. Frankly, it was disgusting to see so many totally lose all rational thought. Which is why we see the backlash about bumping threads.

Broncos4tw
10-26-2009, 09:07 AM
I think he lucked out a bit there. I don't think some super-keen insight made him realize Orton was going to work here. His choices were exceptionally limited at that point, and he made the best overall deal he could. Chicago just had the most to offer, and Orton was their QB to trade.

We could have ended up with Cas... guess we lucked out there.

I think this season so far, is a whole bunch of solid fundamentals + good fortune + some good ol' dumb luck, and most importantly, a very solid foundation of veterans. This could hurt later as we age quickly, but right now, it's all good.

BroncoBuff
10-26-2009, 09:24 AM
I think he lucked out a bit there. I don't think some super-keen insight made him realize Orton was going to work here. His choices were exceptionally limited at that point, and he made the best overall deal he could. Chicago just had the most to offer, and Orton was their QB to trade.

We could have ended up with Cas... guess we lucked out there.
McDaniels is "lucky" he's an offensive genius and a great motivator. I love Orton, but I'm think Cassel might now be doing a similar job here had he been the guy.

Popps
10-26-2009, 09:26 AM
I think he lucked out a bit there. I don't think some super-keen insight made him realize Orton was going to work here. His choices were exceptionally limited at that point, and he made the best overall deal he could. Chicago just had the most to offer, and Orton was their QB to trade.

We could have ended up with Cas... guess we lucked out there.

I think this season so far, is a whole bunch of solid fundamentals + good fortune + some good ol' dumb luck, and most importantly, a very solid foundation of veterans. This could hurt later as we age quickly, but right now, it's all good.

Agree we've had some good luck/fortune this season. But, I think McDaniels definitely saw something in Orton. Remember, this was pre-draft... so we had every opportunity to make a move for a QB and didn't. (Until late.)
He also named Orton his starter very early in camp.

No question his options were limited, but I think McDaniels had foresight on Orton that most of us simply did not.

I loved the idea of having Orton around, but I had no idea he could wind up this effective. I think McDaniels might have been the only one who saw it.

BroncoInferno
10-26-2009, 09:37 AM
I think he lucked out a bit there. I don't think some super-keen insight made him realize Orton was going to work here. His choices were exceptionally limited at that point, and he made the best overall deal he could. Chicago just had the most to offer, and Orton was their QB to trade.

We could have ended up with Cas... guess we lucked out there.

I think this season so far, is a whole bunch of solid fundamentals + good fortune + some good ol' dumb luck, and most importantly, a very solid foundation of veterans. This could hurt later as we age quickly, but right now, it's all good.

Eh, I think Cassel would have been good here. Kansas City has very little offensive talent (or defensive for that matter). I love Orton and think his leadership and knack for playing big in crunch time sets him apart from Cassel (and Cutler, for that matter)...that said, I doubt Orton would be having much success in KC either (then again, I doubt Peyton Manning would have much success with that train wreck).

bronco militia
10-26-2009, 09:38 AM
http://www.drewlitton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/johsjoyride-585x392.gif

<i>Oh Joy Joy

I was trying to imagine Josh McDaniel’s on his weekend off and, well, this is what I came up with. He’s definitely having the ride of his life, which is making it fun for all of us.....Drew

Pick Six
10-26-2009, 09:54 AM
Eh, I think Cassel would have been good here. Kansas City has very little offensive talent (or defensive for that matter). I love Orton and think his leadership and knack for playing big in crunch time sets him apart from Cassel (and Cutler, for that matter)...that said, I doubt Orton would be having much success in KC either (then again, I doubt Peyton Manning would have much success with that train wreck).

Exactly. Cassel isn't a bad quarterback. He just has NO time to make decisions and his incompetent receivers don't catch the ball.

Killericon
10-26-2009, 10:05 AM
There's a part of me that thinks that he tried to get Cassel only half heartedly so he wouldn't get him in the end, and then Cutler could bitch his way out of town. I mean, why wouldn't Belicheck have traded Cassel to his former protege?

Pony Boy
01-04-2011, 02:09 PM
It's a slow day so I thought I everyone might enjoy eating a little crow.....
and watching Cutler in the playoffs. We got hosed.......;D

SoonerBronco
01-04-2011, 02:11 PM
Wow...This thread is hilaripus...

baja
01-04-2011, 02:13 PM
We would be in the playoffs too if we had the Bears defense.

theAPAOps5
01-04-2011, 02:15 PM
It's a slow day so I thought I everyone might enjoy eating a little crow.....
and watching Cutler in the playoffs. We got hosed.......;D

You mean the Chicago Defense who got them there despite Cutler and his pick 6's?

listopencil
01-04-2011, 02:16 PM
Meh, it looked to me like McD wanted Cutler to be our QB when he took the job. The Broncos listened to trade offers but they didn't pull the trigger until Cutler forced them to. So...no. I don't buy the idea in the OP. I give credit to the organization as a whole for recognizing the situation and making the best of it. I give credit to Nolan for building our D into something that carried us through several weeks, and continues to be our strength. I also give credit to McD for identifying Orton as a QB he could work with, then doing the coaching to get Orton to be as effective as he has been so far.

I can live with that.

HAT
01-04-2011, 02:17 PM
Crow, what crow? I don't even know if I posted in this thread originally but I'm still ecstatic with...

A) Cutler being gone in general

B) What Denver got in return

C) What we have to look forward to in 2011 and beyond.

DivineBronco
01-04-2011, 02:19 PM
did cutler cure cancer and or go back in time and kill hitler?

no....then he is still an asshat

jhns
01-04-2011, 02:22 PM
The Cutler situation was the beginning of McDaniels failure. It is the reason he isn't here. Cutler had a defense that looked just like this years defense. He was on a team with just as many injuries as we had this season. Cutler won 8 games in those conditions. McDaniels would have been wise to not trade him for choke artist Orton.

Mile High Shack
01-04-2011, 02:26 PM
Cutler is still Jeff George, that hasn't changed....like has been said, you take that defense, a lot of QBs will have winning records

Cutler's mechanics are still horrible, his attitude still stinks and he still throws too many picks. Once he gets older, that bad footwork is going to catch up with him

I'd still take Orton over him and I sure as HELL would take Tebow over him

BroncoBuff
01-04-2011, 02:26 PM
You mean the Chicago Defense who got them there despite Cutler and his pick 6's?

That pick-6 was awful. But he didn't thrown many picks this year, and he's set several Bears franchise passing records, even without big numbers. Which tells you how mediocre Bears' QBs have been historically.

As lomg as we're here, what's the final tally?

Cutler+Knox <=> Orton+Ayers+Alphonso ??


Alphonso is wrong ... anybody?

frerottenextelway
01-04-2011, 02:29 PM
During Christmas dinner I told the table that it came out to $100 per victory this year with the Ticket and they started laughing. Good times Josh.

HAT
01-04-2011, 02:38 PM
McDaniels would have been wise to not trade him for choke artist Orton.


Since you either missed or ignored this post the first time around.....Let's here jhns version of where the Broncos would be today had the trade not occurred.

Pretty comical how you had at least a dozen or so posts in the following thread but completely disappeared from it after the following exchange:

Well that sure is the same thing!

I think you have my views of Shanahan twisted anyways. I was on board with him being fired. I'm not claiming he shouldn't have been. What I am saying is that if we had Cutler, we wouldn't have had to redo the entire offense. If we had Cutler, we would still have a young offense that was much better and could have focused on the defense the past two years. This team would be much better right now if the Cutler situation never happened.



Here's the deal jhns..And everybody else who voted for Cutler in here....

Riddle me this:

If Jay & McD hit it off from day one, how does that make the 2009 draft any better?

Instead of Ayers AND Moreno, he probably takes one or the other. Agreed?

The second round gets more speculative. Without the Bears 2010 1st rounder, I doubt the 'Phons trade happens, but what if it did? Then they wouldn't have had a 2010 first rounder at all!

But for the purposes of our conversation, let's say he holds off. If he liked Phons enough to trade up...Surely he takes him instead of Mcbath at #48 right? Same goes for Quinn with the 3rd rounder trade deal.

The point is, McD wouldn't have taken different players....Just LESS of them.

#1 Moreno
#2 Smith
#3 Quinn
#4 Bruton (since he didn't take McBath at #48)
#5 McKinley
#6 Brandstater (McD would've still taken a project, even with jay)
#7 Schlueter

Okay so, the 2009 draft is basically no different with or without Jay. Next, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend the 2009 Broncos are a 9-7 or 10-6 wildcard (taking the Jets or Ravens place) They most likely go one and done so that brings us to the 2010 offseason.

The offense is clicking and everybody is happy so there is no Marshall or Scheffler trade. Denver is picking in the 25-27 range, what does McD do? I'll even make it easy on you and say that Dez & DT are gone to the Cowboys & Ravens ahead.....Just in case McD would've been tempted to replace Gaff.

Iupati and Pouncey are gone, the top LB's are gone, the top WR's are gone...Dan Williams seems logical as it was a need and many here wanted him. We now have a NT.

Moving on to round 2, Interior lineman are still a need but maybe not as much as one since Cutler is pretty mobile. If Denver took Beadles in the mid 2nd it stands to reason they still would 10 picks later right? And if he's gone than it's Ducasse.

Round 3: McD might be tempted to go WR here since he hasn't drafted one yet but there is a big run on WR's so he thinks better of it. In his mind Both lines have been addressed, the offense is set, so it's ILB or secondary most likely. I'm going to guess safety since he only got Bruton in 2009 and not McBath. Let's say Stuckey since he was the next S off the board 15 picks or so later.

OL depth & Defense is still the need so I doubt much changes in rounds 4-7....Cox, Olsen, Squid & Kirlew.

Cutler has no bearing on Hillis. Moreno is still McD's boy from 2009 and Simms still sucked when he had to play the 2nd half b/c of Cutlers slight concussion. Hillis for Brady still happens.

So after all of that....How is it that having Cutler would've allowed them to focus on the defense so much again?

The entire net gain defensively is Dan Williams?!?!? There is no new impact pass rusher, ILB or Safety.

Secondary is still Champ, Dawk & a bunch of misfits. LB core is probably the exact same, Doom is still IR'd, etc.

On offense we head into 2010 with Cutler instead of Orton, the backfield is still the same, B-marsh is productive but throws a few fits. Plus, Lloyd doesn't break out because out b/c B-Marsh is still hear. Willis is still hurt, McKinley is still dead (RIP). Scheffler is okay but probably gets injured and/or under-used by McD anyway. The O-line is okay with a gimpy Clady, an aging Wiegman & Kupe, Harris and a rookie. Cutler throws for 10-15% more yards, has half the sacks & 50% more INT's (Which WOULD happen in McD's offense).....But Denver still can't score in the red zone. Cutler and crew proved that in 2008, remember? And still no LenDale, Hillis or Tebow on the goal line.

Add that all up and maybe, MAYBE, Denver is a .500 team in 2010. Their is no way in hell that they win the AFCW or a WC.

Sooooooooo.....Bottom line, what you rather have going into 2011?

Cutler (with Brandy and a street FA as back ups), Moreno, B-marsh, Royal, Gaff, Lloyd, Scheff, decent Oline (have to replace Wiegman for sure by now), largely the same defensive needs...Picking in the middle of every round. And here's the kicker.......Wait for it.....McD still driving the bus!

Or.....

Tebow (with Orton or Quinn as back ups) Moreno, Lloyd, Royal, Thomas, Decker, still need a TE, but a new staff to look forward to, picking high in every round with an extra 2nd rounder for B-Marsh.

Basically it's either McD coaching Shanny's guys on offense and McD running the draft with middle round picks when we need impact players all over the defense.

Or...

A new staff, using McD's guys on offense and a new staff running the draft with high picks in every round plus extra picks still for Marshall & maybe even Orton.

Seems like a no brainer to me. It's beyond that over 40% have voted for the former here. ???

BroncoBuff
01-04-2011, 02:40 PM
did cutler cure cancer and or go back in time and kill hitler?

no....then he is still an asshat

In light of all that's happened, maybe we should re-think the Jay situation. The Mike Nolan and other situations also look different now.

I'm always trying to psychoanalyze, I know, but I firmly believe Cutler was surprised, almost shocked in that first interview right when the trade happened. His NFLN interview on draft day is an apt comparison ... he was happy, confident, borderline charming on draft day. But when the trade happened he seemed to be shell-shocked, no energy, despite the fact he supposedly "wanted" to be traded and that the Bears were his favorite team as a kid.

Jay is a mama's boy no doubt, so I think he was just pouting ... leaving town, not calling people back. He though that, just as Mommy always had done, that "Daddy Bowlen" would back him up.

If you disagree, then explain what he had to gain with this: http://www.strimoo.com/video/16207142/Glazer-Cutler-Didn-t-Want-to-Go-Metacafe.html

bowtown
01-04-2011, 02:42 PM
That pick-6 was awful. But he didn't thrown many picks this year, and he's set several Bears franchise passing records, even without big numbers. Which tells you how mediocre Bears' QBs have been historically.

As lomg as we're here, what's the final tally?

Cutler+Knox <=> Orton+Ayers+Alphonso ??


Alphonso is wrong ... anybody?

Cutler+Knox = Orton, Ayers, 1/2 Quinn, 1/2 Olsen, Demarius Thomas, 1/4 Tim Tebow, Eric Decker, Parrish Cox

I think that's right.

ayjackson
01-04-2011, 02:44 PM
So McD took one for the team! He engineered chaos to get us out of our rut of mediocrity and improve the future.

It`s all very confusing.

ayjackson
01-04-2011, 02:45 PM
Cutler+Knox = Orton, Ayers, 1/2 Quinn, 1/2 Olsen, Demarius Thomas, 1/4 Tim Tebow, Eric Decker, Parrish Cox

I think that's right.

which quarter of Tebow? not the slow delivery?

frerottenextelway
01-04-2011, 02:45 PM
So McD took one for the team! He engineered chaos to get us out of our rut of mediocrity and improve the future.

It`s all very confusing.

McD is an American hero.

ayjackson
01-04-2011, 02:47 PM
Let`s call it

Knox for 1/4Tebow + 1/2Olsen + 1/2Quinn

and

Cutler for Ayers, Thomas, Decker, Cox and Orton

bowtown
01-04-2011, 02:51 PM
which quarter of Tebow? not the slow delivery?

No, I think it brought the virgin 1/4.

ayjackson
01-04-2011, 02:52 PM
no, i think it brought the virgin 1/4.

wow!

HAT
01-04-2011, 02:52 PM
which quarter of Tebow? not the slow delivery?

^5

I always crack up at at these 1/4 of him, half of him observations.

Truthfully, it's ALL of Tebow. Unless of course you think McD would've drafted Tebow with Cutler here already AND that Jay would've been happy with that.

Dedhed
01-04-2011, 02:55 PM
^5

I always crack up at at these 1/4 of him, half of him observations.

Truthfully, it's ALL of Tebow. Unless of course you think McD would've drafted Tebow with Cutler here already AND that Jay would've been happy with that.

Agree.

Pony Boy
01-04-2011, 03:00 PM
We traded the picks up, too.

So essentially, for Cutler and a 5th we got Orton, Ayers/Moreno (since we probably would have taken Ayers at 12, I'd say Moreno is more like it), Alphonso Smith (the trade went down because we had two firsts next year), and Richard Quinn - the verdict is still out on Quinn.

BUT

Orton, Moreno, Smith and Quinn > Cutler

For a pouty, risk-taking, franchise quarterback, we got:

1. A safe, verbal leader of a franchise quarterback (yes, I am now calling Orton a franchise QB). 26 years old.

2a. A potential franchise running back who has shown some flashes of brilliance and always seems to fall forward, who can also catch and block. 22 years old.

2b. A defensive end/linebacker who some literally called the player in the draft with the most potential. 22 years old.

3. A playmaking cornerback who has been looking stellar for a rookie. 22 years old.

4. A blocking tight end with some potential. Looks to take over for the agin Graham. 22 years old.

With the exception of Orton, they're all under contract for at least 4 years.

You got to admit there is some really good stufff here..... Ha!

Merlin
01-04-2011, 03:02 PM
McD is an American hero.
Yes, and he has already made the pantheon of top 10 in history. Is amazing how moronic his apologists can sound at times.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/539255-the-25-worst-coaches-in-nfl-history?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=outbrain#page/19

strafen
01-04-2011, 03:02 PM
Eh, I think Cassel would have been good here. Kansas City has very little offensive talent (or defensive for that matter). I love Orton and think his leadership and knack for playing big in crunch time sets him apart from Cassel (and Cutler, for that matter)...that said, I doubt Orton would be having much success in KC either (then again, I doubt Peyton Manning would have much success with that train wreck).Holy crap!
I just laughed myself to tears! LOLROFL!Ha!Hilarious!

listopencil
01-04-2011, 03:05 PM
The Cutler situation was the beginning of McDaniels failure. It is the reason he isn't here. Cutler had a defense that looked just like this years defense. He was on a team with just as many injuries as we had this season. Cutler won 8 games in those conditions. McDaniels would have been wise to not trade him for choke artist Orton.

Wow. So...I guess we count the good plays he made as "winning the game" and we pretend he never made all those stupid mistakes that ****ed us over. Then we can count as many potential wins as we want. Hell, if we only hadn't traded Cutler. Cutler would have own every game this year. Cutler would have gone undefeated and won the Super Bowl. Dammit McD!

DivineBronco
01-04-2011, 06:15 PM
In light of all that's happened, maybe we should re-think the Jay situation. The Mike Nolan and other situations also look different now.

I'm always trying to psychoanalyze, I know, but I firmly believe Cutler was surprised, almost shocked in that first interview right when the trade happened. His NFLN interview on draft day is an apt comparison ... he was happy, confident, borderline charming on draft day. But when the trade happened he seemed to be shell-shocked, no energy, despite the fact he supposedly "wanted" to be traded and that the Bears were his favorite team as a kid.

Jay is a mama's boy no doubt, so I think he was just pouting ... leaving town, not calling people back. He though that, just as Mommy always had done, that "Daddy Bowlen" would back him up.


If you disagree, then explain what he had to gain with this: http://www.strimoo.com/video/16207142/Glazer-Cutler-Didn-t-Want-to-Go-Metacafe.html



called us a 6...........some people can look past that I can't. I guess that is the line in the sand

Likwid Kerruj
01-04-2011, 06:18 PM
No brains = some balls?

LOL

I love drafting #2!

broncosteven
01-04-2011, 06:19 PM
Right... and that's Orton, plus Ayers and A. Smith.

How a year changes everything,

Orton is being shopped for a 2nd round pick, there was a thread here today that said that Ayers will not be back next year, and mCd traded Smith, duh bears are going to host a playoff game at home after their bye.

tsiguy96
01-04-2011, 06:20 PM
How a year changes everything,

Orton is being shopped for a 2nd round pick, there was a thread here today that said that Ayers will not be back next year, and mCd traded Smith, duh bears are going to host a playoff game at home after their bye.

you honestly think ayers wont be back as a starter next year?

cutler had an NFL average year, as did the entire bears offense. their defense, on the other hand...

go_broncos
01-04-2011, 06:22 PM
no brains = some balls?

Lol

i love drafting #2!

lol

broncosteven
01-04-2011, 06:28 PM
you honestly think ayers wont be back as a starter next year?

cutler had an NFL average year, as did the entire bears offense. their defense, on the other hand...

That wasn't my opinion, it was reported in another thread, if I find it I will link it. I am starting to think that Tonyr is right and he would be better off as a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 lb.

I think Ayers is back next year but has to earn a job. 1.5 sacks in 2 years for a 1st round LB is just as bad as a #12 overall RB who still has yet to break 1k on a season.

broncosteven
01-04-2011, 06:30 PM
Here is the thread TSI

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3069415&postcount=17

Likwid Kerruj
01-04-2011, 06:36 PM
If Ayers goes, then McDaniels better hope he learned something else besides coaching in college.

Merlin
01-05-2011, 07:21 PM
cutler had an NFL average year, as did the entire bears offense. their defense, on the other hand...
You do realize that down the stretch, at crunch time, the D went AWOL and it was the offense that got them the wins. The D showed up again when the game didn't matter.

The last 5 games that mattered:

Against Phily 26 pts allowed
Against Det and their 3rd string QB 20 points allowed.
Against NE 36 points (but that can be forgiven, bad weather and NE after all)
Against Min, 3rd string QB drafted as a WR, 14 points
Against NYJ 34 points (24 in the first half)

The D can be very good, but it was not the sole reason they got there this yr. The Bears never get to the playoffs if it was on their D. And without Cutler that offense is just putrid.

CEH
01-05-2011, 07:35 PM
you honestly think ayers wont be back as a starter next year?

cutler had an NFL average year, as did the entire bears offense. their defense, on the other hand...

Yes I honestly think Ayers is just another LBer and is not guaranteed anything except a roster spot and backup job.

It will be up to him to get his act together and make the leap

I think Ryan Matthews last TD run shows how our two '09 1st rounders are not up to snuff. FIrst Ayers was there and could not make the play and I seriously believe even if Knowshown gets the corner he turns that 30 yard TD into a 10 yard gain and gets tackled

That one play alone shows the difference between average/sub standard and someone who can make a difference

HAT
01-05-2011, 07:39 PM
I think I may have stumbled on a way to keep jhns from posting...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_13cLvSGWGh4/SegF-iQidaI/AAAAAAAACh4/FDq4_hcojiU/s320/highfive_Borat.gif

Jesterhole
01-05-2011, 07:39 PM
Yes I honestly think Ayers is just another LBer and is not guaranteed anything except a roster spot and backup job.

It will be up to him to get his act together and make the leap

I think Ryan Matthews last TD run shows how our two '09 1st rounders are not up to snuff. FIrst Ayers was there and could not make the play and I seriously believe even if Knowshown gets the corner he turns that 30 yard TD into a 10 yard gain and gets tackled

That one play alone shows the difference between average/sub standard and someone who can make a difference

I agree that Ayers isn't great, and certainly not deserving of where we picked him, but he has played OK for a young guy. He made a few plays early on in the season, but disappeared as the season wore on.

He's one of our top four linebackers, I doubt we'll sign enough quality guys to replace him.