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View Full Version : Can we afford to keep Dummervil, Marshall, Scheffler, Orton and Kuper next season


bronco0608
10-19-2009, 08:09 PM
All are free agents. If I was the team, I would re-sign the difference making skill position players and let Kuper walk. Realistically, I would love to have Kuper back, but I doubt the team can afford it.

We need Orton, Marshall, Scheffler, and Dummervil back. Those guys fit our system, are young, productive, and game changers.

BroncoDoug
10-19-2009, 08:13 PM
I don't know anything about cap numbers, but I think the fact that their is not cap next year really helps us keep our own free agents...

Karenin
10-19-2009, 08:13 PM
Letting an all-pro caliber guard go to sign decent but not-spectacular players like Scheffler is no way to run a franchise.

TheReverend
10-19-2009, 08:14 PM
Elvis needs an extension now. Marshall should be second priority with an option to tag him. If no CBA we get a 2nd tag that we can hit Orton with but shouldn't be an issue. He's well aware that it's McD that's creating him and should take a reasonable offer.

tsiguy96
10-19-2009, 08:14 PM
i sure as hell hope so.

bronco0608
10-19-2009, 08:15 PM
Letting an all-pro caliber guard go to sign decent but not-spectacular players like Scheffler is no way to run a franchise.

****, Scheffler has led the league in YPC for TEs before. Thats a difference maker.

Karenin
10-19-2009, 08:15 PM
on what, 30 catches?

bronco0608
10-19-2009, 08:20 PM
on what, 30 catches?

Try 50 or so.

And when did Kuper become All-Pro? He hasn't even made a Pro Bowl before.

RhymesayersDU
10-19-2009, 08:26 PM
I like Scheff, but I agree if push comes to shove, we can let him go.

bronco0608
10-19-2009, 08:28 PM
on what, 30 catches?

Man, you got bad timing. Ha!

Karenin
10-19-2009, 08:29 PM
ummm.... one play doesn't really change things one way or the other. and you're obviously the kind of guy that only watches the ball, but if you actually tried watching the line for once, you'd realize Kuper (and Clady) are the only reason Orton has 5 seconds to throw every play.

steeledude
10-19-2009, 08:33 PM
Keep them all. Except Orton. Find a better guy to throw the ball. I hate game managers. Though Scheff and Marsh are doing everything they can to show he is not a game manager.

I also like how Royal is tired of not being thrown to so he's done everything he can to circumvent the QB problem tonight.

bombay
10-19-2009, 08:36 PM
Have to have those guys.

Orton is the key to all of it, though. He's the general, and one hell of a QB.

That One Guy
10-19-2009, 08:48 PM
Keep them all. Except Orton. Find a better guy to throw the ball. I hate game managers. Though Scheff and Marsh are doing everything they can to show he is not a game manager.

I also like how Royal is tired of not being thrown to so he's done everything he can to circumvent the QB problem tonight.

That's plain silly to talk about Orton's faults at this point. You could argue his play is as good as in any the league.

SportinOne
10-19-2009, 08:48 PM
If there is no cap and a single one of those players leaves then Bowlen, and only Bowlen, is to blame.

That One Guy
10-19-2009, 08:49 PM
Elvis needs an extension now. Marshall should be second priority with an option to tag him. If no CBA we get a 2nd tag that we can hit Orton with but shouldn't be an issue. He's well aware that it's McD that's creating him and should take a reasonable offer.

I'd rather they hit a different position with a tag. QB tag has to be insane.

anon
10-19-2009, 08:49 PM
I really can't find much fault with Orton's play right now. It's all working.

SportinOne
10-19-2009, 08:55 PM
That's plain silly to talk about Orton's faults at this point. You could argue his play is as good as in any the league.

He makes great decisions, but he is certainly not without fault.

Are there better QB's in the league? Yes, definitely. But who are we going to bring in, be it draft, free agency, or trade in the offseason that is going to be ready to perform at a high level in Week 1 2010?

The one thing Orton has going for him is the fact that there aren't a whole lot of QB's that could learn this offense as fast as he did.

Ideally, we just need to hope that the Texans take yet another late season nose dive and Matt Schaub finally snaps on his teammates. That way we can trade Kyle Orton, 2 1sts, and a 3rd for him (Man does that seem like a lot to give up!).

Karenin
10-19-2009, 08:56 PM
Orton is better than Schaub.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-19-2009, 09:34 PM
Anyone think this is why they traded one of the 1sts? Not that Bowlen couldn't afford 2 1sts again, but they would rather spend the money on these guys?

TheReverend
10-19-2009, 09:38 PM
I'd rather they hit a different position with a tag. QB tag has to be insane.

Probably closer to 20m than 15 next year. I HIGHLY doubt we'd need it, but if necessary, tag this neckbeared bastard

bpc
10-19-2009, 09:43 PM
Doom and Kuper should be priority. Keep the lines in tact. Factor in that Hamilton is probably on his last legs this season with our offense.

Build from there. BMarsh/Orton.

Scheffler should be last on the list. He's a H-Back who's too slow to be an every down WR's, too weak to play TE in this offense.

Denver724
10-19-2009, 09:44 PM
All are free agents. If I was the team, I would re-sign the difference making skill position players and let Kuper walk. Realistically, I would love to have Kuper back, but I doubt the team can afford it.

We need Orton, Marshall, Scheffler, and Dummervil back. Those guys fit our system, are young, productive, and game changers.

None, except Orton, are UFA if there is no CBA. They will be UFA during the 6th year and not the 4th. They will be RFA next year (without a CBA) and I am sure we will sign them to the max allowable, which means we can match any offer OR let them go and get the other teams 1st and 3rd round picks.

bronco0608
10-19-2009, 10:35 PM
Anyone think this is why they traded one of the 1sts? Not that Bowlen couldn't afford 2 1sts again, but they would rather spend the money on these guys?

Great point but on a tangent.

With the QB market going the way it was going, no way we could re-signed all those guys and give Cutler his 6 year, 100 million dollar deal. We could have signed Cutler and maybe Marshall and everybody else had to walk.

Also another reason why we traded our first.

Good point.

There is a lot more that went into the Cutler trade than we know.

hookemhess
10-19-2009, 10:38 PM
1. Dumervil
2. Marshall
3. Kuper
4. Orton
5. Scheffler

Not take away from Kyle's great performance thus far, but I have a feeling McD truly is a QB genius.... so I'd say the top 3 are priority and the bottom two are expendable.

Kaylore
10-19-2009, 10:40 PM
Yes to all.

Taco John
10-19-2009, 10:45 PM
This thread should be re-titled the "Jim Goodman Appreciation thread."

http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Staff%20Photos/2008/goodman_jim_mug08.jpg

Just sayin'.

Man-Goblin
10-19-2009, 10:47 PM
Awwww hell. I was going to put math to what the Broncos spent this past offseason, but then I remember I have a job that I have to get up to. If by noon eastern such info isn't posted (compared to the 140 million or so in guarantees given out this season) I will try.

Er wait, uncapped year. All thems youngins (rfas) are ****ed.

Steve Sewell
10-19-2009, 10:49 PM
Keep them all. Except Orton. Find a better guy to throw the ball. I hate game managers. Though Scheff and Marsh are doing everything they can to show he is not a game manager.

I also like how Royal is tired of not being thrown to so he's done everything he can to circumvent the QB problem tonight.

Either you're trolling or you are one of the most moronic posters to hit this board in a long time.

Mr.Meanie
10-19-2009, 10:49 PM
I would say:

1. Doom
2. Marshall
3. Orton
4. Scheff
5. Kuper

In that order. Orton has been lights out, and I have a feeling this is just the beginning. We can lock him into a good contract before he begins putting up Brady numbers.

Doom is already an absolute freak, and we need to lock him up before up goes and throws down 20 sacks this year.

Rock Chalk
10-19-2009, 10:51 PM
Try 50 or so.

And when did Kuper become All-Pro? He hasn't even made a Pro Bowl before.

Neither has Clady.

Kuper has given up fewer sacks than Clady has.

Kuper and Clady are ABSOLUTE MUST KEEPS.

Dumervile, Marshall, Orton, Scheff in that order after.

SoDak Bronco
10-19-2009, 10:52 PM
Kyle Orton will sign well below market value because he knows this team makes him better and he can make the team better by signing a middle of the road QB contract. He isn't a guy that is going to nickle and dime the organization which I think will be huge in signing the rest of our guys.

TheReverend
10-19-2009, 10:53 PM
Kuper is absolutely a "must keep", and not solely because he's played so well. We also have to worry about an aging Ben Hamilton who will decline at some point. Absolutely CAN'T lose both of these guys. Weigman as well for that matter.

We can't flip the entire interior OL

SoDak Bronco
10-19-2009, 10:53 PM
Neither has Clady.

Kuper has given up fewer sacks than Clady has.

Kuper and Clady are ABSOLUTE MUST KEEPS.

Dumervile, Marshall, Orton, Scheff in that order after.

Couldn't agree more. the way our Oline is playing we would be crazy not to bring all these guys back. Hamilton has been the one guy who has been inconsistent. I'd like to see us sign Doom and Bmarsh mid=season before the price tag keeps going and going and going...

Taco John
10-19-2009, 10:54 PM
Neither has Clady.

Kuper has given up fewer sacks than Clady has.

Kuper and Clady are ABSOLUTE MUST KEEPS.

Dumervile, Marshall, Orton, Scheff in that order after.


I pretty well agree with this.

Popps
10-19-2009, 10:54 PM
Please let me enjoy the win before I have to face these issues.

I hate to even think about losing any of those guys.

Popps
10-19-2009, 10:56 PM
This thread should be re-titled the "Jim Goodman Appreciation thread."

http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Staff%20Photos/2008/goodman_jim_mug08.jpg

Just sayin'.

Goodman landed us some nice talent, no question.

But, So did McDaniels and as for free agency, we haven't had a FA period this good since the late 90s. So, no need to dwell in the past.

Taco John
10-19-2009, 10:57 PM
Please let me enjoy the win before I have to face these issues.

I hate to even think about losing any of those guys.


Given this last draft, you can take comfort in the idea that this crew can find guys to replace them. We could lose every last one of them, and nobody here could credibly doubt a single move to replace them until well into next season.

It's good to be a Broncos fan. :)

Taco John
10-19-2009, 10:59 PM
Goodman landed us some nice talent, no question.

But, So did McDaniels and as for free agency, we haven't had a FA period this good since the late 90s. So, no need to dwell in the past.

My comment was not intended to take even a teaspoon of credit away from McDaniels. I just wanted to give Jimmy his due. These players are important to this team. A win like we had tonight shows that.

I hope the guy ends up with another opportunity somewhere far, far away from Denver.

azbroncfan
10-19-2009, 11:01 PM
Keep them all. Except Orton. Find a better guy to throw the ball. I hate game managers. Though Scheff and Marsh are doing everything they can to show he is not a game manager.

I also like how Royal is tired of not being thrown to so he's done everything he can to circumvent the QB problem tonight.

So you would rather have a supposed Franchise QB that couldn't win big games to save his life? The only stat that translates to wins in the NFL is turnovers and we traded a beautiful empty stat turnover machine for 2 1stround picks and a winning QB. I hated it at first but MCD is the real deal.

anon
10-19-2009, 11:08 PM
It would be foolish to mess with the OLine. It's one of the big reasons for our success and too easily taken for granted. Plus, it's absolutely crucial for the kind of hard-nosed, fundamental football we want to play.

HEAV
10-19-2009, 11:59 PM
Anyone think this is why they traded one of the 1sts? Not that Bowlen couldn't afford 2 1sts again, but they would rather spend the money on these guys?


So he's not as drunk as some thought he was...:~ohyah!:

Best to spend the money on known talent.

As far as keeping the crew together... Some players are just going to have to redo thier deals and give back some cap. If they want to stay around an win.

lex
10-20-2009, 12:28 AM
When does Champs contract expire? Or, perhaps a better question is, when does it make sense to cut him (due to his salary)? If you lose Champs contract without accelerating a signing bonus, youre looking at keeping 2 or 3 guys.

USMCBladerunner
10-20-2009, 12:37 AM
My comment was not intended to take even a teaspoon of credit away from McDaniels. I just wanted to give Jimmy his due. These players are important to this team. A win like we had tonight shows that.

I hope the guy ends up with another opportunity somewhere far, far away from Denver.

There is almost no doubt that Shanny will work again, and he should be able to bring in Goodman in some capacity...he was doing some good things...the 2006 draft was bonkers that's for certain.

BroncoMan4ever
10-20-2009, 12:54 AM
Elvis needs an extension now. Marshall should be second priority with an option to tag him. If no CBA we get a 2nd tag that we can hit Orton with but shouldn't be an issue. He's well aware that it's McD that's creating him and should take a reasonable offer.

i think we should work on Doom now, before he elevates himself to a payday only Snyder or Jones can pay. also, it is interesting with how he sees himself as a player. if he believes he is a full time starter he really should work to remain in Denver where it is becoming obvious that Nolan and his defensive staff have designed the scheme to feature him a lot. lots of places in the league still see him as a situational pass rusher while here he is seen as an integral part of our D.

Kuper is far too important to let walk. he isn't a skill position player, but football is won in the trenches and he is one of if not the best young guards in the league.

after they are addressed we go to work on Marshall and Orton.

i actually think Marshall's deal is already being ironed out and will be announced in the next few weeks. with Bowlen talking about him playing and acting his way to a big deal, it can be seen as pretty certain that talks are underway. no way would Bowlen talk about a player of his getting more money if he had no intention of being the one giving it to the guy.

Orton is a tricky one to do. He is showing he has the talent to be a pro bowler in this system, and the last guy who was in this system for a year went on to make Manning and Brady type money. the question comes down to will he be intelligent and take a deal for a little less money to remain in Denver where it is looking like he has a legit shot at making a run for a ring in the near future, or does he look for the huge payday and leave.

he is going to have the option of doing whichever he chooses. because in this league good QBs are always going to be in demand.

we have the money and room under the cap to keep them all, just depends if we want to keep our own, or do the Pats style and let these guys walk and welcome in the new crop of players.

~Crash~
10-20-2009, 12:55 AM
All are free agents. If I was the team, I would re-sign the difference making skill position players and let Kuper walk. Realistically, I would love to have Kuper back, but I doubt the team can afford it.

We need Orton, Marshall, Scheffler, and Dummervil back. Those guys fit our system, are young, productive, and game changers.

bright Ideah ... well not really but I thought I would try to stay postive

Doggcow
10-20-2009, 12:56 AM
We need to start signing guys now.

~Crash~
10-20-2009, 12:56 AM
I would sign Kuper first

~Crash~
10-20-2009, 12:57 AM
This thread should be re-titled the "Jim Goodman ."

http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Staff%20Photos/2008/goodman_jim_mug08.jpg

Just sayin'.

all the Goodman's Appreciation thread

~Crash~
10-20-2009, 12:58 AM
A Oline wins you SB's

BroncoMan4ever
10-20-2009, 01:05 AM
Keep them all. Except Orton. Find a better guy to throw the ball. I hate game managers. Though Scheff and Marsh are doing everything they can to show he is not a game manager.

I also like how Royal is tired of not being thrown to so he's done everything he can to circumvent the QB problem tonight.

yeah, QBs with 27-12 records and a 9-1 TD-INT ratio, with great leadership abilities, that the players love to play for, are just terrible to have on the team.
if only we still had a guy who is 2nd in the league in INTs, a 20-21 record as a starter, with a ****ty attitude that players and coaches don't like, we would be great.

and bull**** on Royal not liking that he isn't getting thrown too. he is a playmaker who made plays when his team needed them. his returns had nothing to do with him being upset about not being featured in the passing game.

Orton is playing great. 244 yards a game, almost 2 TDs a game, 1 INT that was still caught by a receiver, a passer rating over 100, completing almost 64% of his passes, he does not lose at home, he does not make stupid mistakes, he has shown an ability to take the team on his shoulders and lead them to an important score(twice last week on 2 drives over 90 yards), he is showing a leadership and fiery competitive spirit that has been missing since we tossed Jake aside.

also, in what universe does a game manager average over 30 pass attempts a game, or be on pace to throw for almost 4000 yards, and 24 TD passes?

but i guess you don't see any of that. i guess Haters gotta hate.

~Crash~
10-20-2009, 01:08 AM
yeah, QBs with 27-12 records and a 9-1 TD-INT ratio, with great leadership abilities, that the players love to play for, are just terrible to have on the team.
if only we still had a guy who is 2nd in the league in INTs, a 20-21 record as a starter, with a ****ty attitude that players and coaches don't like, we would be great.

and bull**** on Royal not liking that he isn't getting thrown too. he is a playmaker who made plays when his team needed them. his returns had nothing to do with him being upset about not being featured in the passing game.

Orton is playing great. 244 yards a game, almost 2 TDs a game, 1 INT that was still caught by a receiver, a passer rating over 100, completing almost 64% of his passes, he does not lose at home, he does not make stupid mistakes, he has shown an ability to take the team on his shoulders and lead them to an important score(twice last week on 2 drives over 90 yards), he is showing a leadership and fiery competitive spirit that has been missing since we tossed Jake aside.

also, in what universe does a game manager average over 30 pass attempts a game, or be on pace to throw for almost 4000 yards, and 24 TD passes?

but i guess you don't see any of that. i guess Haters gotta hate.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2091

watermock
10-20-2009, 01:11 AM
The '06 and '08 draft were exeptional.

In fact, our core of the offense is intact.

"cept u no ho..

snowspot66
10-20-2009, 01:13 AM
I think we keep them all.

Doom and Marshall will get the big dollars. Orton will likely take a good but hometown deal to stay with McDaniels and in in Denver. Kuper will get a nice offer but won't break the bank.

We can keep them all. And we should. There may be no cap, even if there is we have cap room, and we don't have Cutler hogging all the dollars anymore.

BroncoMan4ever
10-20-2009, 01:15 AM
I would say:

1. Doom
2. Marshall
3. Orton
4. Scheff
5. Kuper

In that order. Orton has been lights out, and I have a feeling this is just the beginning. We can lock him into a good contract before he begins putting up Brady numbers.

Doom is already an absolute freak, and we need to lock him up before up goes and throws down 20 sacks this year.

i think the order needs to be Doom, Kuper, Orton, Marshall, and then Scheff.

i love Scheff, but he is never going to be a featured player in this scheme. occasionally he is going to have a big game like he did against SD when we exploit weaknesses with him, but receiving TEs are not a big part of the McDaniels offense. i like him too much to just watch him waste his career as a spectator on our sidelines. i'd rather watch him have a good career in a city that will put his skills to use.

i think Marshall's contract is already being worked out. so i am not too worried about him which is why he is 4th on my list of importance.

Orton is a guy i want us to lock up long term. i liked him in Chicago and always felt he could be a damn fine QB if he had a little help, well he has proved that to be true and we need to get him signed up now, so that we can continue to build on the offensive foundation we are laying this season.

Kuper is number 2 on my list. our line is a major reason for our success, i don't want to lose a very valuable member of that group. add in his youth and the fact that he is only going to get better, no way can we just let him walk. He is the best young Guard in the league, you can't let that get away.

Doom needs to be signed NOW! he is going to keep up this pace and price himself into a level where only guys like Snyder or Jones are going to be able to afford him. sign him now before he prices himself out of Denver.

BroncoMan4ever
10-20-2009, 01:17 AM
I think we keep them all.

Doom and Marshall will get the big dollars. Orton will likely take a good but hometown deal to stay with McDaniels and in in Denver. Kuper will get a nice offer but won't break the bank.

We can keep them all. And we should. There may be no cap, even if there is we have cap room, and we don't have Cutler hogging all the dollars anymore.

i worry that Kuper is going to get offers for Fanaca type money and end up somewhere else. i really don't want that to happen

BroncoMan4ever
10-20-2009, 01:23 AM
When does Champs contract expire? Or, perhaps a better question is, when does it make sense to cut him (due to his salary)? If you lose Champs contract without accelerating a signing bonus, youre looking at keeping 2 or 3 guys.

Champ is due 15million in the last year of his deal next season. i don't think we can just cut him because of the cap hit associated with the guaranteed money he is owed. we would either need to convince him to sign a new deal to spread out what we owe him or find a willing trade partner that would want to take on the money he is owed.

i am looking at him, Graham, and probably DJ doing a little restructuring of their deals so we can keep our own.